September 9, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode of Bread for the People, host Jim Serpico interviews Frank Oliveri, the third-generation owner of Pat's King of Steaks, renowned for inventing the Philadelphia cheesesteak. Frank shares fascinating stories about the origins of the cheesesteak, his journey of balancing tradition with expansion, and his passion for culinary arts. The discussion also touches on building a food business, the Philadelphia food scene, and future endeavors.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to Bread for the People. It's Jim here.
I hope you all having a great day. Last week
I had a conversation with a bread baker from the
Hudson Oven named Chase Hornet. Chase introduced me to a
new flower called Farmer Ground Flower, a new flower to me,
that is, and I had the opportunity to bake with
it after I spoke with Chase and then got on
(00:21):
the phone with the people at Farmer Ground Flower. And
I'm happy to say Bread for the People has a
new sponsor. Farmer Ground Flower was nice enough the sponsor
Bread for the People, and I wanted to tell you
a little bit more about them, and here's what I discovered.
So it's a team of conscientious millism farmers that was
started in about two thousand and nine by three friends,
(00:41):
Greg Russo, Neil Johnson and Thor Oxner. They're rooted in
the Finger Lakes region and they use local organic greens
and focus on supporting local communities. They're committed to leading
the growth of sustainable grain economy. Farmer Ground has designed
their stone ground milling process to retain the integrity of
the grind, allowing natural nutrients fibers, oils, and flavors to
(01:03):
speak for themselves. I particularly like baking with the high
extraction bread flour. It's an eighty five percent extraction flower
that is shifted to remove a large portion of the
brand while retaining the wheat erm, resulting in great flavors
and nutrition. Go to Farmer Groundflower dot com to learn more.
I highly recommend Farmer Ground and I like to thank
(01:25):
them for sponsoring.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Bread for the People.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
The following episode of Bread for the People is brought
to you by side Hustle Bread, Long Island's handcrafted artisanal
bread company. Side Hustle Bread is a family run virtual
bakery that's bringing the neighborhood feel back to Long Island,
one loaf at a time. Head on over to side
Hustlebread dot com for more information, upcoming appearances and merchandise.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
My name's Jim Serpico and this should I start with?
My name? What should I start with? This is bread
for the People? Do you like it like this? Welcome
to bread? Or do you like it like this? Welcome Ready,
Welcome to bread for the people? Mind? Is there a
script for the people?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Welcome the bread for the People. I'm Jim Serpico. Today,
we have a very special guest streaming in from I
think Philadelphia, New York. He is the owner and proprietor
and the third generation owner that is, of Patch King
of Steaks in Philadelphia. You know them, the inventors of
the Philadelphia Chief Steak. Please welcome Frank OLIVERI.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Frank.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's such a pleasure to have you on. I was
excited to get the email. You guys are legendary. I'd
love a good Philly Chief Steak and uh, you guys,
we have to thank for it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, you know was started here in Philadelphia with my
Do you want to hear the story. It's a great story.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Okay, So legend has it. My great uncle Pat, my
grandfather's older brother, had a hot dog stand in the
Italian Market. So just give people an idea where that is.
It's the market where Rocky was running and they threw
him in the orange in the first movie. That's the
world famous Italian Market Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
And got an open aired hot dogs stand over there
and every day he sold hot dogs. He ate hot
dogs and got tired of eating hot dogs. One day,
so he sent my grandfather down to the butcher to
get some you know, slicing trimmings of meat. Right, he
cooked it up on his hot dog grill and the
caivaly we had hot dogs every day. All the sandwich
looks really great. I have one, he said, Well, since
you eat hot dogs every day, I only have enough
(03:41):
for my brother and I, but I'll give you half
of mine. The Cabby took a bite of it and said, wow,
this is amazing. Stop selling hot dogs and start selling
these things. And that was the invention of the Philly
steak sandwich in nineteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I love that. That was his folks testing the one guy. Uh,
he landed on the right guy. It's sound one guy,
the right guy.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I actually bumped into his grand niece a couple of
years ago, Diane, Diane Schwartz, her name is and uh, yeah.
We conversed back and forth and she's she's trying to
get them, you know, you know a little bit of
side money from her uncle inventing the steak sandwich with
my uncle.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You bumped into her in mediation.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well that it was kind of mediation. We were in
a famous four Street deli in Philadelphia, and one of
my I was with one of my employees at a
bad steak shirt on she said, Hey, I'm Diane Schwartz.
Myt my great uncle was the cabby who wait, the
first steak sandwich.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Now I understand that it started out with Provolone cheese,
and it wasn't until many years later that I think
it was your dad and correct me if I'm wrong
who brought out the wiz.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, So I would imagine it was Provolone cheese because
the guy who has been credited with putting the cheese
on the sandwich was Joe Lorenzo. And you know, we're
right in the Italian market. We're Italian, and I find
it kind of hard to believe that he was going
to go down there and try to find a slice
of you know, processed American cheese in the thirties and forties, right,
So I would imagine it was I would imagine it
(05:09):
was Provolone cheese. And then my uncle Pat really we
had other stores running at the same time, the family
did when he rolled together and he well, he kind
of frowned upon it over there for other reasons, crazy reasons,
And but other stores had proloon and American cheese. Then
my father in nineteen fifty six found craft cheese was
(05:31):
and he used to hide it on the side of
the grill and put it on sandwiches for people to
come and they liked it, and that was that became
our signature cheese.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So when did it become known as Pat's King of Steaks?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What year was that?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh, she's probably right away. My uncle was like a
He was a true showman, so you know he was
he was bigger than life. People just wanted to hang
out with him, and so I guess he you know,
he just dubbed himself to king early on. I don't
know exactly when. There was probably the day he moved
from the hot dog stand into the building, which was
like probably three months. Had to reinvented the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right, so before Instagram, it's safe to say, but he
had the bug. He had the showmanship bug, which to
this day is important, right, especially in certain foods. You
guys are very specific, but people could get sandwiches anywhere
else besides the taste of a sandwich. I always believe
(06:32):
it's a great story, and you guys have a great
story now there. It became a big thing in Philadelphia.
There are several other geese Steaks and it's a great
conversational argument between everybody on who's got you know, who
they are loyal to. And I know, and I'm bringing
(06:52):
this up because I happened to watch one of the
videos that you guys sent me and you say you're
friendly with one of these other rioters.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, you know, like I was listening to one of
your previous podcasts with Anthony. Yes, we were talking about
the Pizzaia guys.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, and you know all the chief steak guys in
Philadelphia were basically all friends. That's awesome, you know we Yeah.
I mean, listen, you can't walk you can't walk a
block in Philadelphia without tripping over a cheese steak or
tripping over two stores and sell cheese steaks, right, so
we all kind of look out for each other. But
you know, there is the original rivalry started between Pats
and Gino's, which is directly across the street.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, and everyone knows it, whether you've been there
or not, everyone knows it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Everyone around America.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it. And it's mentioned on
you know, Monday Night Football. It's mentioned on tonight's show,
you know, and and you know for that reason, because
we've been there for ninety three years and the guy
across the street's been there for fifty some years. He
was established in nineteen sixty seven. You know, we get
dubbed the quote unquote tourist trap. Oh, it's tourist trap.
(07:58):
People go there, like why because because your business lasted
much longer than any other business, you're a tourist trap.
Is that the way it works? I'm so confused by that.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, come on, it comes down to jealousy and uh,
you know, I think it's almost and people also it's
the same thing as these trolls out there. It's just
so easy to say something negative and then that you know,
you probably have other other rivals out there that are
competitive and trying to build a name for themselves and whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's meaningless. But you know, sometimes I just spare my where.
You know, you see the trolls online, you know, like
your place is garbage, Genos is better, pat sucks, Genos sucks.
It's like, you know, I go to this grocery store
and like in conshra Hocken, it's not even in Philly, seriously,
and people. I mean people are loyal. People in the
Philadelphias are kind of loyal. And the loyals are the
sports teams loyal to or their neighborhoods, and they're they're obsessive,
(08:52):
compulsive over the cheese steaks. I get it. I mean
I'm kind of biased. There's several that I like and
there's several thousand I don't like. So you know, I
understand that.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But I mean the other side of the coin is
you're being talked about.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It means you're being talked about by not only people
of Philadelphia, but people around America. And then some how
many other food establishments could say that about themselves. And
I'm sure business is going pretty well.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You know, Yeah I don't. I don't own a red pen.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So so, you know, we look at it like, you know,
everybody wants to you know, if you have a pizza
Ria down the street and somebody goes there and he's
got the you know, he's got the greatest pizza in
the country. Yeah, he's got he's got His pizza is great.
I'm a pizza ola two. So but if you make,
if you're baking your own bread, then you're creating a
desire for the sandwich, and you bake sixty loaves of bread.
(09:53):
That's one hundred and twenty sandwiches that you're splitting up
between Hogi's and cheese steaks. And then you know, by
two o'clock in the afternoon, oh we sold out. Well, yeah,
you had one hundred and twenty loads of bread exactly.
You know, our baker breaks through bakes for us twenty
four hours a day. We sell thousands a day, right,
which we don't run out. I've never run out of
bread in ninety two years, right, ninety three.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Years, but you've had to The business that you own
has had the benefit of figuring that out and figuring
out how to produce for that long. And yeah, it's
like on a much smaller scale, the same thing with me.
I started doing this professionally three years ago and was
(10:37):
doing farmers markets, and then there was a demand for it,
and it was it was sometimes two to three farmers'
markets a day where we would have people vending for us.
And I was at the very beginning doing it out
of my garage and I couldn't keep up with that demand.
So I did make a deal with another baker who
I love and was very I met him through Instagram
(10:58):
and we became the greatest friends, and he wanted to
help and help us because we had a demand and
a brand. You know, it's not always just a taste,
even though of course the bread is going to be
taste great, even if I have another baker, right, but
you know, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's something something. There's something about when you're when you're touching.
I bake bread too, yeah, and you know, my mother
is probably twenty two years old that I use. And
you know, there's something different the way you touch the bread.
Not my mother to no, I know, I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I'm laughing because there's probably people listening that don't.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
My dad didn't remarry. My real mother's eighty four years old.
But right, you know, it's it's like there's something different
about the way you the way you form and shape
the bread, and you know, you're looking at something that's
live and you're taking care of it. It's different than
you when you would trust that to someone else.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
But it's not possible to do on a scale, not
just not. And I hope to get there in my way,
which coincidentally, as of this week is sandwiches. But you know,
it won't be possible to to keep the production going
the same way, and I hope it's not. I hope
(12:08):
we achieve scale and have a central location or hire
a bake. It was great to bake to our you know,
our like the way we like it. We'll see see yeah,
tell me a better about you and growing up and
so your dad was deeply involved in this.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So my uncle Pat started the business and he passed
away in nineteen August nineteen seventy as sixty five or
seven years old. But early in the fifties he moved
out to California and he started buying real estate. He
partly had the money he made in buying real estate,
so he moved out to California. Yeah, yeah, he did
(12:50):
really well with that and he bought trax al Ind
to Beverly Hills. He was friends with Fred McMurray, Geen
Audrey being crawsby all those guys that were buying tracks
land and when he needed money he would sell them all.
He opened up a pats in La in the Fairfax
section and it just didn't do well. But in the
meantime we had the family. We I was born in
sixty four had several stores in Philadelphia, so his son,
(13:14):
Herb took over the other stores, and my grandfather and
dad bought the original business from him.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, and you.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Know, I basically grew up into business eleven years old.
I wasn't allowed inside, so I would wipe the counters
with my I'd walk around with a metal milk crate
when they were actually metal, and I would wipe the
counters off. And then I just grew up in the business,
go into work on the weekends. But I always had
a desire to become a classically trained French chef. So
I turned down CIA as a as a junior in
(13:43):
high school, and I went. I was accepted to look
Caught on Blue in France, which consequently I'm leaving at
nine o'clock tomorrow night to go to France. So I'll
take some bread back for you that and I love
the bread there. And so I said to my father,
listening on to day till September, then I'm going to
Paris for five years, and he's like, okay, you know,
(14:04):
we'll see what happens. And we had a manager who
left the store, and I stayed on till September, and
then I just you know, you know what happens. You
start making money buying cars, you go in nightclub and
fine clothes. So I put my culinary career on hold,
and I took some private classes with George Prairie and
Philly from the back Fen and other classes. I would
come up to New York and take day classes at
the French Colinerary Institute and stuff like that. And then
(14:27):
I finally, at forty seven years old, I went to
the restaurant's scholl at well Nothall College and here in
Philadelphia and got my full bachelor's degree. So I'm classically
trained in I respect.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, do you have an itch to broaden out from?
I mean, I don't know. I want to call it your
day job.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You have a giant, successful business that's been in the
family for a long time, But I do wonder about
the psychology here.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. So right before nine to eleven, a week before
nine to eleven, we were penned to paper to signing
off on banding throughout the country. And at that time
we had just got the entire name back from all
the family members who had it. It was outstanding with and
I said to my father, I just don't feel comfortable
with this. So nine to eleven happened, and we were
supposed to go in all the airports in the country.
(15:15):
We had a guy who wanted like one hundred and
thirty seven stores in California, and we had another guy
who wanted to secure Europe. And I said, just doesn't
feel right. And nine to eleven happened. I'm like, oh
my god, maybe this was a sign. So kind of
put that on hold. But now I'm the sole owner
of the business, and I always had the edge to
(15:36):
do something. And it's just like, you know, my accountant says,
you know, do you really want to go back to work?
And I'm like, but I love it. I love the
action of it. I love so you being there. I
love the interaction of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So you and I are about the same age and nine, yeah,
I'm fifty five.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Ye, and I had my paper route was much harder.
You look much better than I.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Do uphill both ways. I know how it is in Philly.
And listen, I'm doing this food truck thing and it's
gonna be brutal.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's gonna be brutal.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I talk about it all the time in terms of
like the prep and the this and the that and catering.
It's not just being on the food truck and the
hours you're put in there. But I'm the same way
like I want to work. You know, there's so much,
so many aspects of this thing. I find fascinating, from
the baking and the science to the baking to seeing
(16:33):
people enjoy it. Hopefully they will. So far they've enjoyed
what I've baked. And planting the seed of a company
and a brand and seeing it catch on is exciting.
Like all that stuff, What am I gonna do all
of a sudden, A guy who works twelve fourteen hours
a day is gonna do what with my life?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah? So hey, listen, if you need somebody to come
up and get chef with you, I'll hang out on
the food truck with you about sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I do talk about that. I would love that. Are
you kidding? Do you guys do catering?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
We used to do catering for some events. Actually, we
are going back to Canada on July fourth week. I'm
not going this year. I'm sending my guys. I did
it last year for David Cohen, who is the ambassador
from the United States to Canada, to make cheesteaks. It
is Fourth of July party. So we do events like that.
That's that's kind of fun. We used to do smaller
events for University of Pennsylvania, sometimes backyard events. We don't
(17:33):
have a food truck at this point. That's like a
whole another endeavor that I'm kind of like leary about
getting involved in, because that's just the whole other aspect
that I need to worry about, you know, if it's
if it's managed properly, if they're driving there and you know,
getting the product there, making sure it's right. You know,
I can't be in all these places at once. But yeah,
(17:53):
we do some catering, not a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I know that a lot of the purveyors selling frozen
cheese steak meat that's a palsy is great. I haven't
tried it, but they were trying to sell it to me.
But it's just not my lane.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
But who knows.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's there's probably so many ways these days to expand.
It doesn't have to be brick and mortar, right, what
do you what do you think about the brick and
mortar these days?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Well, I have I'm negotiating something huge right now and
we're we're just working out the details of it where
I'm going to you know, license, license the name and
be part of it. And it's it's it's you know,
it's going to look it's looking like it's going to
be pretty big. And with that, we may do other
(18:44):
other locations, you know, pick and choose where we want
to go. And you know, it's it's more like if
I can have some if I can have some control
over it, If I could control over it in the
respect that you're buying all the products through me, way,
I can assure that when you know, when the persons
eating the sandwich is exactly the same as is that
the nith of Warton Street in Philadelphia, right, And that's
(19:07):
that's one that's my stipulation. If you're going to do it,
you have to buy through me. This way, I not
only can control the product once you know, once the
people eat it, and I can control the inventory, and
I know exactly how much you know I'm supposed to
be getting on my end.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I would want that too.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I mean that's why my my dream and vision for
what I'm doing is to be able to have a
central production facility where the trucks would dispatch from and
they loaded up from the bread that was baked at
this one place. I think there's a way to do it.
There's companies out there that do it. Cousins, Lobsters, right,
(19:44):
they Franchi in the truck, they do well. So who knows.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A guy I was talking to you last year from
he wanted to have a food truck on the Hampton's
and he wanted me to like send a product up
and he would He wanted me to license him and
do it. I'm like, but I don't know what you're doing.
If you're going to tell me you're selling five hundred
stakes a week and then all of a sudden you
sold ten thousand because you're bringing your own product in,
then where's my end? You know? That's that's the hard part.
(20:08):
I can't be in all these places at once.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, but at the same time, who knows.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I mean, I mean, you got it legally, obviously we
got to cover our asses. That guy would be crazy.
I'm sure it could happen. I mean, you hear these stories,
especially in this business all the time. But that would
be naughty for him to do it, and he would
not get away with it for that long.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
No, there's there has to be somebody up there that
knows me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, that's that's pretty nuts.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
So, so you're excited about your your endeavor, I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Oh my god, yes, I mean it's it's is it huge?
It's not huge to me, it is, and to my
family it is like, no.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's it's huge.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
They're they're actually so.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I have three sons, uh, and my wife and we're
all very hands on deck here, and it's that's exciting
to see them excited about it. My wife does work
full time, but when she as soon as she gets
home from doing her school psychology thing, she's she's running
the number she's on us for cost of goods and
(21:20):
if we don't have it right, she's questioning the shit
out of us.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, you know, because I didn't really do that at
the very beginning, and I was winging my prices to
what I thought they should be, and and sometimes I
felt bad charging what I was charging. Sometimes I would
change the prices depending on who was standing opposite me.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, now it is. I mean, that's you know, that's
why you see a lot of people, a lot of
people who go into the restaurant industry who don't have
that business background or that financial the ability to the
reason and say, well, if i'm you know, if I'm
paying if my product cost is you know, three dollars whatever,
and you know, okay, I can sell this for four fifty.
(22:03):
But then you have to, you know, take into consideration gas, electric, insurance, water,
all the other fun stuff that goes along with it.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Employees, employees, paging. We have to pay a site fee
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Our site fee had ranged from seventy five dollars to
two thousand a day.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, that's a that's a lot. I was just talking
to someone in Philadelphia here with one of the main
in America things, and they say that the food trucks
actually the people who run the event, they have their
registers on the truck and they take thirty percent off
the top.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I won't do those events.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I won't do them.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They have those events here, I won't do them.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
No way.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, that's that's when I when I heard thirty percent
off the top, I'm like, no, I'll park on the
other side of the street exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I mean, that's similar to going into one of the stadiums.
And that's why you're paying so much for food in
the stadium because that's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, I turned I turned down Citizens Bank Park twice
for that reason, because you know they're you know, you
have error Mark. There's nothing wrong with air Mark. It's
a great company. But you know, I can put a
manager in there, but the manager basically just stands there.
He can't tell anybody what to do. He can't stop
the people from before it was a cashless thing, from
putting putting the money in their pocket. Not saying they
do it, but if it happens, it happens. I mean,
(23:24):
I've heard horror stories about it, and so you really
can't control the product. But then when someone goes to
the stadium and they buy a cheese steak and it's
like eighteen dollars for a cheese steak, they put a
bad taste in themouth at the Pats is making all
this money, but it's really not Pats making the money.
It's it's air Mark.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Exactly crazy. So let's talk pizza. You say you're pizza olo.
Do you do it at home?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I do do it at home. Actually I went to
Tony GIERMANI I went to his school out and ken. Yeah,
I always always love pizza. It's a sickness, you know,
it's a sickness.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah. Yeah, So I.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Followed him from many years and I bought it. My
first oven was a Fernal Bravo, a little one, and
I decided I wanted to go to pizza school. So
I literally flew out and I took the took the
class and I worked in the pizzaria for a week
and it was it was amazing. And one of the
greatest parts about it was, you know, you know, he
says he made a pizza, and then he says, all right,
(24:19):
everybody you know make a pizza. So I made a
pizza and I said, he goes, well, it looks just
like mine. Well, I've been following you for years, so
you know, I'm mimicking everything you do here. But I
love it like I we. Our summer home is on
Long Beach Island, New Jersey, and we just built this
amazing kitchen outside and I have a forty three inch
(24:40):
Marrow Marie Fourno oven there old wood.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And I just had a pizza party this weekend. We
just getting it all together. Have a an Argentinian girl.
Everything's all wood, all wood, Argentina girl. Egg and pizza oven.
I cook on live fire. And you know when I
make though, I used capudo. I do a thirty six
hour rock. Guys, you know I.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Use Do you use the double zero?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I used the bag? I used the blue bag.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, okay, that's what I have. I have that right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know it's it's great. I mean I get I
get like two fifty five pound bags a summer. You know,
it's my backyard. I'll make a pizza like we first
bought our place. I bought you know, a dozen, just
the metal pans, and I gave them all my neighbors,
and I said, listen, I said, when Nancy and I
are making pizzas Friday night, come over with your pan.
(25:33):
I'll make your pizza. You go home with your pan,
wash it, and come back next Friday. I'll make you
another pizza.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Jesus, they must love you well.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Until I built a new until I built a new
kitchen outside, everybody loved me. Now there's a little angry
now because it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Big, and they see the lights and stuff. What do
they do they really act?
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Well, no, they kind of it kind of blocked the
sun a little bit, so it's it's It was supposed
to be just like a little Leni with a pizza oven,
and it turned out to be all right, twenty six
foot long, eighteen foot wide, gigantic fireplace bar, you know,
granite countertops under you know, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
You didn't put a pickleball court next to it, did you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, we didn't put a pickleball court, but we did.
We did expand our gardens so we grow all our
own vegetables in the summer. And as we were leaving yesterday,
there was maybe like a dozen and a half squash
blossoms out there. Oh man, that I had to leave
going to France tomorrow for a week.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, what about I don't know much about your family.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Do you have kids?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Have kids from a previous marriage were kind of estranged
from each other, So that is what it is. Yeah,
so they're thirty, thirty one and twenty four and they
choose not to have a relationship with me. It's kind
of hard, but yeah, that's that's rough. So it's just
it's just my wife, My wife, Nancy, and I in
a business and uh.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So Nancy's involved in it.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, Nancy does all our pr work and she's my anchor.
She's good, She's real good.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
We run it together.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I have the same thing here.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Without my wife, I would not be able to run this,
this food food company?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
What else? So? Uh, what are you going to France for?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
No? No, our niece graduated from from school here in Philadelphia,
Germantown friends, and she got accepted at g W so
as a graduation gift, we're taking her to Paris for
a week.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Okay, and you you've been there before obviously, So do
you have a list of I'm going to go research?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Ex bread place or this?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, we have. We have a bunch of places. My
my My wife didn't share their tererary with me yet
because I told her I would just want to be surprised.
So when she plans a trip from start to finish,
it's amazing. I couldn't ask for a better travel wife
slash travel agent. Nancy is the best. But it comes
to that. But I would love to visit pull On
(28:01):
Bakery though, because I did take her master class for bread.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, so did I? Right? Cool master class.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I actually made a very I made a variation of
the pull On pull on loaf. I halfed it and
I add I increased the hydration and I added orange
zest masturbrated cranberries and walnuts to it. That's that's my
goat bread. Yeah, that's my go to one.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I love that. That's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I should try doing the uh the zest because I
do the cranberry walnut.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, this kid is that little background flavor to it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's fantastic. And Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Lastly, the Philly food scene in general is pretty hop
and isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Let me tell you some Philadelphia is no longer the
ugly step child of New York when it comes to
the food scene in Philadelphia, we have we have all that.
We have it all down here. We have tons of
James Beard Award winners. We have you know, uh, Friday,
Saturday and Sunday just got voted the most innovative restaurant
in the country. Colia, which is this amazing tire restaurant,
and Fishtown is amazing. We have Joe Bidia with Badilla Pizza.
(29:08):
Have you been there in Philly?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
No? Man.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
In fact, for the last couple of years, I've been
saying to my wife, we have to carve out like
three or four days and go and do all these things,
because I've been reading about and I follow it and
it sounds just pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, his pizza is amazing. His pizza is truly, truly amazing.
And we have and of course we have Mark Vettri,
who just opened up a place called Pizzeria Salve in
the new Comcast building. His pizza is amazing, and there's
all his restaurants are amazing. We have. Of course, we
have Michael Salamanov who has restaurants in New York. Now,
he has Goldie, he has a laser Wolf up there. Yeah,
(29:47):
and yeah, we have everything down here. The food's great
down here. I mean it's it's kind of hard to
leave the city without gaining weight.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Wow, We're going to make the trip and I'll call
upon you and I'll head over to your place and
we'll have fun.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Absolutely, it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
All right, Frank, it's so good to talk to you.
We'll talk soon, all right, all right, you will. This
episode of Bread for the People was brought to you
by Side Hustle Bread, Long Island's handcrafted artisanal bread company.
Side Hustle Bread is a family run business that's bringing
the neighborhood. Feel back to Long Island, one loaf at
a time. If you like what you're hearing, don't forget
(30:25):
to head on over to iTunes and rate and review
this episode. Reviewing and rating is the most effective way
to help us grow our audience. This episode was produced
by Milestone TV and Film. I'm your host Jim Serpico.
Less it be the bread, Everyone,
Hey guys, welcome to Bread for the People. It's Jim here.
I hope you all having a great day. Last week
I had a conversation with a bread baker from the
Hudson Oven named Chase Hornet. Chase introduced me to a
new flower called Farmer Ground Flower, a new flower to me,
that is, and I had the opportunity to bake with
it after I spoke with Chase and then got on
(00:21):
the phone with the people at Farmer Ground Flower. And
I'm happy to say Bread for the People has a
new sponsor. Farmer Ground Flower was nice enough the sponsor
Bread for the People, and I wanted to tell you
a little bit more about them, and here's what I discovered.
So it's a team of conscientious millism farmers that was
started in about two thousand and nine by three friends,
(00:41):
Greg Russo, Neil Johnson and Thor Oxner. They're rooted in
the Finger Lakes region and they use local organic greens
and focus on supporting local communities. They're committed to leading
the growth of sustainable grain economy. Farmer Ground has designed
their stone ground milling process to retain the integrity of
the grind, allowing natural nutrients fibers, oils, and flavors to
(01:03):
speak for themselves. I particularly like baking with the high
extraction bread flour. It's an eighty five percent extraction flower
that is shifted to remove a large portion of the
brand while retaining the wheat erm, resulting in great flavors
and nutrition. Go to Farmer Groundflower dot com to learn more.
I highly recommend Farmer Ground and I like to thank
(01:25):
them for sponsoring.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Bread for the People.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
The following episode of Bread for the People is brought
to you by side Hustle Bread, Long Island's handcrafted artisanal
bread company. Side Hustle Bread is a family run virtual
bakery that's bringing the neighborhood feel back to Long Island,
one loaf at a time. Head on over to side
Hustlebread dot com for more information, upcoming appearances and merchandise.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
My name's Jim Serpico and this should I start with?
My name? What should I start with? This is bread
for the People? Do you like it like this? Welcome
to bread? Or do you like it like this? Welcome Ready,
Welcome to bread for the people? Mind? Is there a
script for the people?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Welcome the bread for the People. I'm Jim Serpico. Today,
we have a very special guest streaming in from I
think Philadelphia, New York. He is the owner and proprietor
and the third generation owner that is, of Patch King
of Steaks in Philadelphia. You know them, the inventors of
the Philadelphia Chief Steak. Please welcome Frank OLIVERI.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Frank.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's such a pleasure to have you on. I was
excited to get the email. You guys are legendary. I'd
love a good Philly Chief Steak and uh, you guys,
we have to thank for it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, you know was started here in Philadelphia with my
Do you want to hear the story. It's a great story.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Okay, So legend has it. My great uncle Pat, my
grandfather's older brother, had a hot dog stand in the
Italian Market. So just give people an idea where that is.
It's the market where Rocky was running and they threw
him in the orange in the first movie. That's the
world famous Italian Market Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
And got an open aired hot dogs stand over there
and every day he sold hot dogs. He ate hot
dogs and got tired of eating hot dogs. One day,
so he sent my grandfather down to the butcher to
get some you know, slicing trimmings of meat. Right, he
cooked it up on his hot dog grill and the
caivaly we had hot dogs every day. All the sandwich
looks really great. I have one, he said, Well, since
you eat hot dogs every day, I only have enough
(03:41):
for my brother and I, but I'll give you half
of mine. The Cabby took a bite of it and said, wow,
this is amazing. Stop selling hot dogs and start selling
these things. And that was the invention of the Philly
steak sandwich in nineteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I love that. That was his folks testing the one guy. Uh,
he landed on the right guy. It's sound one guy,
the right guy.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I actually bumped into his grand niece a couple of
years ago, Diane, Diane Schwartz, her name is and uh, yeah.
We conversed back and forth and she's she's trying to
get them, you know, you know a little bit of
side money from her uncle inventing the steak sandwich with
my uncle.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You bumped into her in mediation.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well that it was kind of mediation. We were in
a famous four Street deli in Philadelphia, and one of
my I was with one of my employees at a
bad steak shirt on she said, Hey, I'm Diane Schwartz.
Myt my great uncle was the cabby who wait, the
first steak sandwich.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Now I understand that it started out with Provolone cheese,
and it wasn't until many years later that I think
it was your dad and correct me if I'm wrong
who brought out the wiz.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, So I would imagine it was Provolone cheese because
the guy who has been credited with putting the cheese
on the sandwich was Joe Lorenzo. And you know, we're
right in the Italian market. We're Italian, and I find
it kind of hard to believe that he was going
to go down there and try to find a slice
of you know, processed American cheese in the thirties and forties, right,
So I would imagine it was I would imagine it
(05:09):
was Provolone cheese. And then my uncle Pat really we
had other stores running at the same time, the family
did when he rolled together and he well, he kind
of frowned upon it over there for other reasons, crazy reasons,
And but other stores had proloon and American cheese. Then
my father in nineteen fifty six found craft cheese was
(05:31):
and he used to hide it on the side of
the grill and put it on sandwiches for people to
come and they liked it, and that was that became
our signature cheese.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So when did it become known as Pat's King of Steaks?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What year was that?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh, she's probably right away. My uncle was like a
He was a true showman, so you know he was
he was bigger than life. People just wanted to hang
out with him, and so I guess he you know,
he just dubbed himself to king early on. I don't
know exactly when. There was probably the day he moved
from the hot dog stand into the building, which was
like probably three months. Had to reinvented the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right, so before Instagram, it's safe to say, but he
had the bug. He had the showmanship bug, which to
this day is important, right, especially in certain foods. You
guys are very specific, but people could get sandwiches anywhere
else besides the taste of a sandwich. I always believe
(06:32):
it's a great story, and you guys have a great
story now there. It became a big thing in Philadelphia.
There are several other geese Steaks and it's a great
conversational argument between everybody on who's got you know, who
they are loyal to. And I know, and I'm bringing
(06:52):
this up because I happened to watch one of the
videos that you guys sent me and you say you're
friendly with one of these other rioters.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, you know, like I was listening to one of
your previous podcasts with Anthony. Yes, we were talking about
the Pizzaia guys.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, and you know all the chief steak guys in
Philadelphia were basically all friends. That's awesome, you know we Yeah.
I mean, listen, you can't walk you can't walk a
block in Philadelphia without tripping over a cheese steak or
tripping over two stores and sell cheese steaks, right, so
we all kind of look out for each other. But
you know, there is the original rivalry started between Pats
and Gino's, which is directly across the street.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, and everyone knows it, whether you've been there
or not, everyone knows it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Everyone around America.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it. And it's mentioned on
you know, Monday Night Football. It's mentioned on tonight's show,
you know, and and you know for that reason, because
we've been there for ninety three years and the guy
across the street's been there for fifty some years. He
was established in nineteen sixty seven. You know, we get
dubbed the quote unquote tourist trap. Oh, it's tourist trap.
(07:58):
People go there, like why because because your business lasted
much longer than any other business, you're a tourist trap.
Is that the way it works? I'm so confused by that.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, come on, it comes down to jealousy and uh,
you know, I think it's almost and people also it's
the same thing as these trolls out there. It's just
so easy to say something negative and then that you know,
you probably have other other rivals out there that are
competitive and trying to build a name for themselves and whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's meaningless. But you know, sometimes I just spare my where.
You know, you see the trolls online, you know, like
your place is garbage, Genos is better, pat sucks, Genos sucks.
It's like, you know, I go to this grocery store
and like in conshra Hocken, it's not even in Philly, seriously,
and people. I mean people are loyal. People in the
Philadelphias are kind of loyal. And the loyals are the
sports teams loyal to or their neighborhoods, and they're they're obsessive,
(08:52):
compulsive over the cheese steaks. I get it. I mean
I'm kind of biased. There's several that I like and
there's several thousand I don't like. So you know, I
understand that.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But I mean the other side of the coin is
you're being talked about.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It means you're being talked about by not only people
of Philadelphia, but people around America. And then some how
many other food establishments could say that about themselves. And
I'm sure business is going pretty well.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You know, Yeah I don't. I don't own a red pen.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So so, you know, we look at it like, you know,
everybody wants to you know, if you have a pizza
Ria down the street and somebody goes there and he's
got the you know, he's got the greatest pizza in
the country. Yeah, he's got he's got His pizza is great.
I'm a pizza ola two. So but if you make,
if you're baking your own bread, then you're creating a
desire for the sandwich, and you bake sixty loaves of bread.
(09:53):
That's one hundred and twenty sandwiches that you're splitting up
between Hogi's and cheese steaks. And then you know, by
two o'clock in the afternoon, oh we sold out. Well, yeah,
you had one hundred and twenty loads of bread exactly.
You know, our baker breaks through bakes for us twenty
four hours a day. We sell thousands a day, right,
which we don't run out. I've never run out of
bread in ninety two years, right, ninety three.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Years, but you've had to The business that you own
has had the benefit of figuring that out and figuring
out how to produce for that long. And yeah, it's
like on a much smaller scale, the same thing with me.
I started doing this professionally three years ago and was
(10:37):
doing farmers markets, and then there was a demand for it,
and it was it was sometimes two to three farmers'
markets a day where we would have people vending for us.
And I was at the very beginning doing it out
of my garage and I couldn't keep up with that demand.
So I did make a deal with another baker who
I love and was very I met him through Instagram
(10:58):
and we became the greatest friends, and he wanted to
help and help us because we had a demand and
a brand. You know, it's not always just a taste,
even though of course the bread is going to be
taste great, even if I have another baker, right, but
you know, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's something something. There's something about when you're when you're touching.
I bake bread too, yeah, and you know, my mother
is probably twenty two years old that I use. And
you know, there's something different the way you touch the bread.
Not my mother to no, I know, I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I'm laughing because there's probably people listening that don't.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
My dad didn't remarry. My real mother's eighty four years old.
But right, you know, it's it's like there's something different
about the way you the way you form and shape
the bread, and you know, you're looking at something that's
live and you're taking care of it. It's different than
you when you would trust that to someone else.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
But it's not possible to do on a scale, not
just not. And I hope to get there in my way,
which coincidentally, as of this week is sandwiches. But you know,
it won't be possible to to keep the production going
the same way, and I hope it's not. I hope
(12:08):
we achieve scale and have a central location or hire
a bake. It was great to bake to our you know,
our like the way we like it. We'll see see yeah,
tell me a better about you and growing up and
so your dad was deeply involved in this.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So my uncle Pat started the business and he passed
away in nineteen August nineteen seventy as sixty five or
seven years old. But early in the fifties he moved
out to California and he started buying real estate. He
partly had the money he made in buying real estate,
so he moved out to California. Yeah, yeah, he did
(12:50):
really well with that and he bought trax al Ind
to Beverly Hills. He was friends with Fred McMurray, Geen
Audrey being crawsby all those guys that were buying tracks
land and when he needed money he would sell them all.
He opened up a pats in La in the Fairfax
section and it just didn't do well. But in the
meantime we had the family. We I was born in
sixty four had several stores in Philadelphia, so his son,
(13:14):
Herb took over the other stores, and my grandfather and
dad bought the original business from him.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, and you.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Know, I basically grew up into business eleven years old.
I wasn't allowed inside, so I would wipe the counters
with my I'd walk around with a metal milk crate
when they were actually metal, and I would wipe the
counters off. And then I just grew up in the business,
go into work on the weekends. But I always had
a desire to become a classically trained French chef. So
I turned down CIA as a as a junior in
(13:43):
high school, and I went. I was accepted to look
Caught on Blue in France, which consequently I'm leaving at
nine o'clock tomorrow night to go to France. So I'll
take some bread back for you that and I love
the bread there. And so I said to my father,
listening on to day till September, then I'm going to
Paris for five years, and he's like, okay, you know,
(14:04):
we'll see what happens. And we had a manager who
left the store, and I stayed on till September, and
then I just you know, you know what happens. You
start making money buying cars, you go in nightclub and
fine clothes. So I put my culinary career on hold,
and I took some private classes with George Prairie and
Philly from the back Fen and other classes. I would
come up to New York and take day classes at
the French Colinerary Institute and stuff like that. And then
(14:27):
I finally, at forty seven years old, I went to
the restaurant's scholl at well Nothall College and here in
Philadelphia and got my full bachelor's degree. So I'm classically
trained in I respect.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, do you have an itch to broaden out from?
I mean, I don't know. I want to call it your
day job.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You have a giant, successful business that's been in the
family for a long time, But I do wonder about
the psychology here.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. So right before nine to eleven, a week before
nine to eleven, we were penned to paper to signing
off on banding throughout the country. And at that time
we had just got the entire name back from all
the family members who had it. It was outstanding with and
I said to my father, I just don't feel comfortable
with this. So nine to eleven happened, and we were
supposed to go in all the airports in the country.
(15:15):
We had a guy who wanted like one hundred and
thirty seven stores in California, and we had another guy
who wanted to secure Europe. And I said, just doesn't
feel right. And nine to eleven happened. I'm like, oh
my god, maybe this was a sign. So kind of
put that on hold. But now I'm the sole owner
of the business, and I always had the edge to
(15:36):
do something. And it's just like, you know, my accountant says,
you know, do you really want to go back to work?
And I'm like, but I love it. I love the
action of it. I love so you being there. I
love the interaction of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So you and I are about the same age and nine, yeah,
I'm fifty five.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Ye, and I had my paper route was much harder.
You look much better than I.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Do uphill both ways. I know how it is in Philly.
And listen, I'm doing this food truck thing and it's
gonna be brutal.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's gonna be brutal.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I talk about it all the time in terms of
like the prep and the this and the that and catering.
It's not just being on the food truck and the
hours you're put in there. But I'm the same way
like I want to work. You know, there's so much,
so many aspects of this thing. I find fascinating, from
the baking and the science to the baking to seeing
(16:33):
people enjoy it. Hopefully they will. So far they've enjoyed
what I've baked. And planting the seed of a company
and a brand and seeing it catch on is exciting.
Like all that stuff, What am I gonna do all
of a sudden, A guy who works twelve fourteen hours
a day is gonna do what with my life?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah? So hey, listen, if you need somebody to come
up and get chef with you, I'll hang out on
the food truck with you about sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I do talk about that. I would love that. Are
you kidding? Do you guys do catering?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
We used to do catering for some events. Actually, we
are going back to Canada on July fourth week. I'm
not going this year. I'm sending my guys. I did
it last year for David Cohen, who is the ambassador
from the United States to Canada, to make cheesteaks. It
is Fourth of July party. So we do events like that.
That's that's kind of fun. We used to do smaller
events for University of Pennsylvania, sometimes backyard events. We don't
(17:33):
have a food truck at this point. That's like a
whole another endeavor that I'm kind of like leary about
getting involved in, because that's just the whole other aspect
that I need to worry about, you know, if it's
if it's managed properly, if they're driving there and you know,
getting the product there, making sure it's right. You know,
I can't be in all these places at once. But yeah,
(17:53):
we do some catering, not a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I know that a lot of the purveyors selling frozen
cheese steak meat that's a palsy is great. I haven't
tried it, but they were trying to sell it to me.
But it's just not my lane.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
But who knows.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's there's probably so many ways these days to expand.
It doesn't have to be brick and mortar, right, what
do you what do you think about the brick and
mortar these days?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Well, I have I'm negotiating something huge right now and
we're we're just working out the details of it where
I'm going to you know, license, license the name and
be part of it. And it's it's it's you know,
it's going to look it's looking like it's going to
be pretty big. And with that, we may do other
(18:44):
other locations, you know, pick and choose where we want
to go. And you know, it's it's more like if
I can have some if I can have some control
over it, If I could control over it in the
respect that you're buying all the products through me, way,
I can assure that when you know, when the persons
eating the sandwich is exactly the same as is that
the nith of Warton Street in Philadelphia, right, And that's
(19:07):
that's one that's my stipulation. If you're going to do it,
you have to buy through me. This way, I not
only can control the product once you know, once the
people eat it, and I can control the inventory, and
I know exactly how much you know I'm supposed to
be getting on my end.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I would want that too.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I mean that's why my my dream and vision for
what I'm doing is to be able to have a
central production facility where the trucks would dispatch from and
they loaded up from the bread that was baked at
this one place. I think there's a way to do it.
There's companies out there that do it. Cousins, Lobsters, right,
(19:44):
they Franchi in the truck, they do well. So who knows.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A guy I was talking to you last year from
he wanted to have a food truck on the Hampton's
and he wanted me to like send a product up
and he would He wanted me to license him and
do it. I'm like, but I don't know what you're doing.
If you're going to tell me you're selling five hundred
stakes a week and then all of a sudden you
sold ten thousand because you're bringing your own product in,
then where's my end? You know? That's that's the hard part.
(20:08):
I can't be in all these places at once.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, but at the same time, who knows.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I mean, I mean, you got it legally, obviously we
got to cover our asses. That guy would be crazy.
I'm sure it could happen. I mean, you hear these stories,
especially in this business all the time. But that would
be naughty for him to do it, and he would
not get away with it for that long.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
No, there's there has to be somebody up there that
knows me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, that's that's pretty nuts.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
So, so you're excited about your your endeavor, I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Oh my god, yes, I mean it's it's is it huge?
It's not huge to me, it is, and to my
family it is like, no.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's it's huge.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
They're they're actually so.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I have three sons, uh, and my wife and we're
all very hands on deck here, and it's that's exciting
to see them excited about it. My wife does work
full time, but when she as soon as she gets
home from doing her school psychology thing, she's she's running
the number she's on us for cost of goods and
(21:20):
if we don't have it right, she's questioning the shit
out of us.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, you know, because I didn't really do that at
the very beginning, and I was winging my prices to
what I thought they should be, and and sometimes I
felt bad charging what I was charging. Sometimes I would
change the prices depending on who was standing opposite me.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, now it is. I mean, that's you know, that's
why you see a lot of people, a lot of
people who go into the restaurant industry who don't have
that business background or that financial the ability to the
reason and say, well, if i'm you know, if I'm
paying if my product cost is you know, three dollars whatever,
and you know, okay, I can sell this for four fifty.
(22:03):
But then you have to, you know, take into consideration gas, electric, insurance, water,
all the other fun stuff that goes along with it.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Employees, employees, paging. We have to pay a site fee
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Our site fee had ranged from seventy five dollars to
two thousand a day.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, that's a that's a lot. I was just talking
to someone in Philadelphia here with one of the main
in America things, and they say that the food trucks
actually the people who run the event, they have their
registers on the truck and they take thirty percent off
the top.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I won't do those events.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I won't do them.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They have those events here, I won't do them.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
No way.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, that's that's when I when I heard thirty percent
off the top, I'm like, no, I'll park on the
other side of the street exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I mean, that's similar to going into one of the stadiums.
And that's why you're paying so much for food in
the stadium because that's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, I turned I turned down Citizens Bank Park twice
for that reason, because you know they're you know, you
have error Mark. There's nothing wrong with air Mark. It's
a great company. But you know, I can put a
manager in there, but the manager basically just stands there.
He can't tell anybody what to do. He can't stop
the people from before it was a cashless thing, from
putting putting the money in their pocket. Not saying they
do it, but if it happens, it happens. I mean,
(23:24):
I've heard horror stories about it, and so you really
can't control the product. But then when someone goes to
the stadium and they buy a cheese steak and it's
like eighteen dollars for a cheese steak, they put a
bad taste in themouth at the Pats is making all
this money, but it's really not Pats making the money.
It's it's air Mark.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Exactly crazy. So let's talk pizza. You say you're pizza olo.
Do you do it at home?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I do do it at home. Actually I went to
Tony GIERMANI I went to his school out and ken. Yeah,
I always always love pizza. It's a sickness, you know,
it's a sickness.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah. Yeah, So I.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Followed him from many years and I bought it. My
first oven was a Fernal Bravo, a little one, and
I decided I wanted to go to pizza school. So
I literally flew out and I took the took the
class and I worked in the pizzaria for a week
and it was it was amazing. And one of the
greatest parts about it was, you know, you know, he
says he made a pizza, and then he says, all right,
(24:19):
everybody you know make a pizza. So I made a
pizza and I said, he goes, well, it looks just
like mine. Well, I've been following you for years, so
you know, I'm mimicking everything you do here. But I
love it like I we. Our summer home is on
Long Beach Island, New Jersey, and we just built this
amazing kitchen outside and I have a forty three inch
(24:40):
Marrow Marie Fourno oven there old wood.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And I just had a pizza party this weekend. We
just getting it all together. Have a an Argentinian girl.
Everything's all wood, all wood, Argentina girl. Egg and pizza oven.
I cook on live fire. And you know when I
make though, I used capudo. I do a thirty six
hour rock. Guys, you know I.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Use Do you use the double zero?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I used the bag? I used the blue bag.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, okay, that's what I have. I have that right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know it's it's great. I mean I get I
get like two fifty five pound bags a summer. You know,
it's my backyard. I'll make a pizza like we first
bought our place. I bought you know, a dozen, just
the metal pans, and I gave them all my neighbors,
and I said, listen, I said, when Nancy and I
are making pizzas Friday night, come over with your pan.
(25:33):
I'll make your pizza. You go home with your pan,
wash it, and come back next Friday. I'll make you
another pizza.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Jesus, they must love you well.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Until I built a new until I built a new
kitchen outside, everybody loved me. Now there's a little angry
now because it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Big, and they see the lights and stuff. What do
they do they really act?
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Well, no, they kind of it kind of blocked the
sun a little bit, so it's it's It was supposed
to be just like a little Leni with a pizza oven,
and it turned out to be all right, twenty six
foot long, eighteen foot wide, gigantic fireplace bar, you know,
granite countertops under you know, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
You didn't put a pickleball court next to it, did you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, we didn't put a pickleball court, but we did.
We did expand our gardens so we grow all our
own vegetables in the summer. And as we were leaving yesterday,
there was maybe like a dozen and a half squash
blossoms out there. Oh man, that I had to leave
going to France tomorrow for a week.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, what about I don't know much about your family.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Do you have kids?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Have kids from a previous marriage were kind of estranged
from each other, So that is what it is. Yeah,
so they're thirty, thirty one and twenty four and they
choose not to have a relationship with me. It's kind
of hard, but yeah, that's that's rough. So it's just
it's just my wife, My wife, Nancy, and I in
a business and uh.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So Nancy's involved in it.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, Nancy does all our pr work and she's my anchor.
She's good, She's real good.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
We run it together.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I have the same thing here.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Without my wife, I would not be able to run this,
this food food company?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
What else? So? Uh, what are you going to France for?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
No? No, our niece graduated from from school here in Philadelphia,
Germantown friends, and she got accepted at g W so
as a graduation gift, we're taking her to Paris for
a week.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Okay, and you you've been there before obviously, So do
you have a list of I'm going to go research?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Ex bread place or this?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, we have. We have a bunch of places. My
my My wife didn't share their tererary with me yet
because I told her I would just want to be surprised.
So when she plans a trip from start to finish,
it's amazing. I couldn't ask for a better travel wife
slash travel agent. Nancy is the best. But it comes
to that. But I would love to visit pull On
(28:01):
Bakery though, because I did take her master class for bread.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, so did I? Right? Cool master class.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I actually made a very I made a variation of
the pull On pull on loaf. I halfed it and
I add I increased the hydration and I added orange
zest masturbrated cranberries and walnuts to it. That's that's my
goat bread. Yeah, that's my go to one.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I love that. That's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I should try doing the uh the zest because I
do the cranberry walnut.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, this kid is that little background flavor to it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's fantastic. And Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Lastly, the Philly food scene in general is pretty hop
and isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Let me tell you some Philadelphia is no longer the
ugly step child of New York when it comes to
the food scene in Philadelphia, we have we have all that.
We have it all down here. We have tons of
James Beard Award winners. We have you know, uh, Friday,
Saturday and Sunday just got voted the most innovative restaurant
in the country. Colia, which is this amazing tire restaurant,
and Fishtown is amazing. We have Joe Bidia with Badilla Pizza.
(29:08):
Have you been there in Philly?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
No? Man.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
In fact, for the last couple of years, I've been
saying to my wife, we have to carve out like
three or four days and go and do all these things,
because I've been reading about and I follow it and
it sounds just pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, his pizza is amazing. His pizza is truly, truly amazing.
And we have and of course we have Mark Vettri,
who just opened up a place called Pizzeria Salve in
the new Comcast building. His pizza is amazing, and there's
all his restaurants are amazing. We have. Of course, we
have Michael Salamanov who has restaurants in New York. Now,
he has Goldie, he has a laser Wolf up there. Yeah,
(29:47):
and yeah, we have everything down here. The food's great
down here. I mean it's it's kind of hard to
leave the city without gaining weight.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Wow, We're going to make the trip and I'll call
upon you and I'll head over to your place and
we'll have fun.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Absolutely, it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
All right, Frank, it's so good to talk to you.
We'll talk soon, all right, all right, you will. This
episode of Bread for the People was brought to you
by Side Hustle Bread, Long Island's handcrafted artisanal bread company.
Side Hustle Bread is a family run business that's bringing
the neighborhood. Feel back to Long Island, one loaf at
a time. If you like what you're hearing, don't forget
(30:25):
to head on over to iTunes and rate and review
this episode. Reviewing and rating is the most effective way
to help us grow our audience. This episode was produced
by Milestone TV and Film. I'm your host Jim Serpico.
Less it be the bread, Everyone,
Popular Podcasts
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.