June 17, 2025 • 34 mins
One of the best ways to reclaim your confidence in this job market is by learning how to effectively negotiate your next job offer.
In this episode, salary negotiation expert and compensation consultant Kate Dixon shares powerful, real-world strategies to help you advocate for your worth without sounding pushy or confrontational.
Kate is the author of Pay Up: Unlocking Insider Secrets of Salary Negotiation and founder of Dixon Consulting, bringing over 30 years of compensation experience to this insightful and practical conversation.
You’ll learn why 80% of professionals who negotiate receive something in return and how you can be one of them.
In This Episode, You'll Learn:
- Why salary negotiations are not about being aggressive, but about solving a business problem collaboratively
- The seven magic words to use in any negotiation: “What kind of flexibility do you have?”
- What’s usually on the table (think base salary, sign-on bonuses, start dates) versus what’s not (benefits like retirement plans)
- How one client saved $30,000 by analyzing a relocation package and how you can find hidden financial value too
- Why compensation reflects the value of the role, not your personal worth, so you can keep your emotions in check
- How your negotiation style can shape your professional reputation before you even start the job
Kate also breaks down the importance of silence after asking for flexibility, why it's your most powerful negotiation tool, and how it positions you as confident, thoughtful, and strategic.
Visit johnneral.com/resources to download "10 Must-Listen Episodes to Help You Navigate What’s Next" and get your invitation to a free live Zoom event on June 25th at 7:00 PM ET—created just for mid-career professionals like you.
Connect with Kate Dixon
Keywords: salary negotiation tips, mid-career job offers, Kate Dixon interview, how to negotiate a job offer, career nego
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Picture it You've got the job offer and now you're
looking at the compensationpackage.
Your brain is filled with somany thoughts about whether or
not it's a good offer or whatcould make it a great offer.
What do you ask for?
Where can you negotiate what'sfair and reasonable versus
(00:21):
asking for everything you want?
What's a mid-careerprofessional like you to do?
This week's guest is here tohelp you negotiate the job offer
and examine it from both sidesof the table.
In a moment, you will meet KateDixon, salary negotiator and
services pricing coach, who'shere to talk to you about
negotiating your next job offerand how you can show up and they
(00:45):
can show up and they can pay up.
Let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
(01:06):
love, or love the career theyhave, using my proven four-step
formula.
Before we get to today'sepisode, I've got a quick
announcement.
Last week, we celebrated the300th episode of the Mid-Career
GPS podcast and I want to thankyou.
Thank you for your emails, yourtext, your comments and your
posts helping me promote thismilestone achievement and, in
(01:30):
case you missed it, it's part ofthat celebration.
I've got a free guide and aspecial Zoom event for you.
You can visit johnneral.
com/resources or check the shownotes to download your free
guide 10 must listen episodes tohelp you navigate what's next.
Celebrating 300 episodes ofclarity, confidence and career
(01:54):
direction.
When you download the guide,you'll receive an invite to a
special live Zoom event I'mhosting on Wednesday, june 25th
at 7 pm Eastern event I'mhosting on Wednesday, June 25th
at 7 pm Eastern.
Come join us to celebrate thepodcast and I'll be there to
answer your career questions.
Again, visit johnneral.
com/resources to download theguide and learn more.
(02:18):
Whether you're exploring newopportunities, entertaining a
job offer or trying to advocatefor yourself in your current
role, you will want to pay closeattention to what my guest has
to say.
This week, I am joined by KateDixon, a true expert in
compensation strategy and theauthor of the award-winning book
(02:38):
Pay Up Unlocking InsiderSecrets of Salary Negotiation.
Kate is the principal andfounder of Dixon Consulting, a B
Corp certified leadershipdevelopment and total rewards
consultancy.
With over 30 years ofexperience as a certified
compensation professional and acertified coach, kate brings a
(03:00):
wealth of practical advice andreal-world wisdom to the
conversation.
Wealth of practical advice andreal-world wisdom to the
conversation.
In our interview, kate sharesher own powerful mid-career
story, including what it feltlike to be early retired and how
that moment sparked a new andfulfilling chapter in her career
.
She also opens up about thefears many job seekers face when
(03:21):
it comes to negotiating offersand reveals what most people
miss when it comes to asking forwhat they're worth.
If you've ever wondered how tomake sure you're not leaving
money or value on the table, myfriends, this episode is for you
.
So grab a notebook or listeningclosely.
(03:42):
You're about to get amasterclass in negotiating your
worth.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Kate Dixon.
Hi, kate, welcome to thepodcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
So good to be here todayspecifically around how
(04:06):
mid-career professionals arelooking at their compensation
and where they can benegotiating perhaps a little bit
differently or morestrategically.
But before we get into all ofthat, would you please share
with us what was your mid-careermoment?
Kate Dixon (04:18):
I think my mid-career moment was when I was
invited to retire early from abrand that I had worked with for
12 years.
I loved, loved, do love thecompany and I had been working
(04:41):
like a trillion hours towardsome strategic priorities.
And then got this invitation,along with many, many of my
friends, and I saw that as asign that I needed to restart my
consulting practice.
I had a consulting practicewhen my kids were young and then
(05:02):
went back into corporateAmerica and then got early
retired, and that as a sign togo back and do my own thing
again and an invitation for that.
John Neral (05:18):
Were you surprised when you were quote unquote
early retired?
Kate Dixon (05:23):
I was because our, our department, had been
traditionally underfunded andunderstaffed according to all
benchmarks, and, and so it was,and, and you know compensation
is not something that you knowjust grows on trees.
So, in terms of you know peoplewho do this work, so I was a
(05:46):
lot more surprised than maybe Ishould have been.
John Neral (05:51):
I really appreciate you sharing that, because we
know so far as we're almosthalfway through 2025.
And it kind of jolts me to saythat a little bit, because there
are times when I feel like thisyear is going very slowly and
other times when I feel likeit's going rather quickly but
what we're seeing in the jobmarket both from those people
who are civil servants andfederal and government employees
(06:13):
, as well as to those who arecorporate employees and
nonprofit employees that thisconversation around taking early
retirement or be it being laidoff or rift, is something which
we have seen is happening to alot more people than what
perhaps many thought at thebeginning of the year.
Kate Dixon (06:33):
Mm-hmm.
John Neral (06:34):
Yeah, and so when you sit there and you look at
how your work life as well asyour personal life, kind of
dramatically changes, in thatyou no longer have a job, walk
us through a little bit aboutwhy it was so important for you
to go back to your consultingrole and your own private
(06:59):
practice, to go and relaunchthat again, maybe in a different
way.
Kate Dixon (07:03):
You know, I think for me it's a different choice
than a lot of the folks who gotlaid off at the same time that I
did.
I mean, several of us went onto start businesses and several
of us went to other corporatecareers or nonprofit careers and
I think it really depends onwhat it is that drives you.
(07:27):
I love being an entrepreneur,that's something that you know.
I started four differentsuccessful businesses over the
course of my my life and havereally enjoyed that.
Not everybody does, because ityou have to have kind of a weird
combination of um, you know,especially if you're a
(07:47):
consultant, you're sellingyourself and so you have to have
, you know, this confidence tosell yourself as a product, as
well as the paranoia to keepyour um pipeline, um full of
work.
So it's kind of a uniquesituation.
I I love it and I love thecreativity that it provides.
I love being able to choose myown clients, which is fantastic.
(08:10):
But you know again, it's notsomething that's for everyone.
But you know, being in thatkind of moment, that inflection
point is, it's so important toknow kinds of the kinds of
things that really you careabout, the things that you want,
and some folks love that risktaking and some folks don't, and
(08:32):
both choices are great choices.
John Neral (08:38):
Absolutely and when we've talked before today's
interview.
But in learning more about youand getting to know you, I think
the one thing we can a primarydriver for someone listening
today or not we have toacknowledge that how we are paid
(09:05):
for our services and how we arecompensated is important.
As a compensation consultant,tell people what exactly you do.
Kate Dixon (09:16):
Well, primarily so.
I have a portfolio of differentthings that I do in my work,
but with compensation consulting, we're essentially helping
organizations figure out how topay people, so sometimes that's
in the form of executivecompensation, sometimes that is
in the form of creating jobarchitectures and salary
(09:39):
structures, sometimes it's aboutincentive programs, sometimes
it's about consulting withboards.
We do all kinds of differentthings and that's what makes it
more fun for me.
The other portfolio of thingsthat I do.
I do coaching, because I'm acertified coach, so I do salary
negotiation coaching, services,pricing coaching for people like
(10:00):
me who are consultants orfreelancers, and that kind of
stuff.
And I also do executivecoaching, which is kind of the
traditional coaching that a lotof people think about.
John Neral (10:14):
So when we think about that mid-career
professional who is entertaininga job offer, they find our
conversation.
They're thinking aboutnegotiating that job offer.
I want to take us through twodifferent examples of a
mid-career professional who isfinalizing their job offer,
(10:38):
their compensation package andeverything.
So we'll take person one.
Okay, they are hesitant,fearful or trepidatious about
asking for something additionalin their salary negotiation, for
whatever reason it may be,because they've been out of work
(11:00):
for a while, they really likethe job, they don't want to push
the boundaries.
And so for that person inparticular that is looking at
the job offer and thinking theyshould just go ahead and accept
it and I know this is a ratherbroad example.
But for those people who arethinking I'm just going to go
ahead and accept it, what aresome of the things you could
(11:21):
highlight that they mightpotentially be missing when it
comes to their salarynegotiation?
Kate Dixon (11:27):
Well, research shows that people who do salary
negotiation, about 80% of themwind up getting something, and
it may not be in base pay, itmay be some other kinds of thing
that they get.
Maybe they get a little bithigher bonus or a sign on bonus
or something like that.
But you know, those odds arepretty good.
(11:49):
And my biggest number one tipis don't be a jerk and the kind
of opposite of that, becausepeople, you know, I think people
see this stuff on on TV andthey're like, you know, I just
have to be a hard hitter.
They need to see that I can,you know, really go in there and
(12:10):
stake my claim.
This equation right.
In reality, it really needs tobe a collaborative problem
solving.
This is a business problem,right?
The business problem is theywant to hire you and you want to
hire salary or you know betterbenefits or something right.
(12:33):
So that's a business problem.
And if you can treat it lessemotionally and more like
solving a business problem andbeing collaborative and seeking
solutions and making sure thatthere are, you know, multiple
ways for you to get what youneed, then you know again, a lot
(12:54):
of the things that we reallyfear about like kind of go away.
John Neral (13:01):
So, staying with that same scenario and I loved
how you phrased about not beinga jerk, because it's so true,
right, I can appreciate that aswell, in my experiences too.
What would you say are some ofthe things that job seekers who
are negotiating their offershould really shy away from?
(13:26):
For example, people want adifferent benefits package.
They want more vacation timethan what they are told they are
going to get, based oneverybody in the company.
Is there anything like thatthat you would say is kind of a
waste of their time to negotiatearound, or is anything fair
game?
Kate Dixon (13:46):
Well, you know I don't want to say never do any,
you know any particular thingbut in general, if you're with
an established company or goingto an established company,
things like the benefits packageis not going to be negotiable.
That things like the benefitspackage is not going to be
negotiable, you know.
Again, you should know as muchas you can about it.
(14:06):
But things like retirementcontributions not negotiable,
things like benefit premiums notnegotiable, and so you may as
well not spend effort there.
What typically people do getsome movement on are things like
base pay, sign-on bonuses, andwe can talk a little bit about
(14:31):
what kinds of things you shouldbe thinking about with sign-on
bonuses.
But sign-on bonuses, start date, negotiating your start date
Sometimes, if you're not able tomake the kind of progress that
you want to on your cashcompensation, you might be able
to negotiate some money towarddevelopment, things like that.
(14:53):
Those tend to be things thatyou can and probably should try
to negotiate Because, again, theodds of you getting something
are reasonably good.
And I do think that it's a goodthing for both the potential
employee and the potentialemployer when the candidate does
(15:15):
negotiate, because, again, youknow you as the candidate are
really, you know, acting in thepower that you have and you do
have power because they wouldn'thave offered you the job if
they didn't want you and soyou're acting in your power but
(15:37):
you're also showing them who youare as a leader and as an
employee, and that is solid gold.
So you know, again, if you'reapproaching this like a
collaborative problem thatyou're solving and you're
working with HR, you know, evenif you don't get anything, you
still have created a little bitof a relationship with somebody
(15:59):
who might be an ally later on.
When you come to the companyand when you treat your
recruiter or your HR rep well,that I can promise you is going
to have knock on consequencesthat are really good for you
when you get to the organizationBecause, again, you know, these
folks are going to be talkingto the hiring manager and go oh
(16:22):
wow, john, I'm telling you he'ssuch a great hire, we're so
lucky to get him.
That can help you way more thaneven getting, you know, a
$10,000 increase in your basepay.
John Neral (16:36):
That's such a great point.
Great point and I thinkoftentimes people may forget
that it is that relationshipbuilding across the entire
hiring process that can reallyhelp or hinder, not only whether
you get the job offer or not,but what happens when it comes
to negotiating.
So I really appreciate youcalling that out?
(16:58):
Yeah, so, kate, let's take alook at the second type of
person.
Okay, so they've got this joboffer and, for context, let's
say that they've accepted a joboffer with a rather large
company, we'll say Fortune 250,fortune 100.
Kate Dixon (17:15):
Okay, Somewhere in there, okay.
John Neral (17:17):
And they're mid-level, senior-level type
position and they're looking attheir compensation package and
they're saying it is going to benothing for them to throw me an
extra $40,000 or $50,000 intothis compensation package.
I'm worth it, I deserve it, I'mgoing to ask for it and I am
(17:40):
not going to back down.
Thinking about that type ofscenario, what could you tell us
might potentially be helpful orhurtful for them, with that
mindset going into theirnegotiation?
Yeah.
Kate Dixon (17:58):
Um, first of all, I would say this is not the Hunger
Games, so let's not treat itlike it is.
It's like it's not Highlander.
There can only be one right.
And this is a conversation thatI often have with my clients
who are in sales and stuff.
Because, you know, they feellike, wow, you know, this is
(18:18):
what, this is the work that I'mgoing to be doing for the
company.
They feel like, wow, you know,this is what.
This is the work that I'm goingto be doing for the company.
And you know what does it sayabout me as a potential employee
if I can't do a good job ofnegotiating again, you know, the
key to unlock all of this stuffis it's a.
It's not personal, because it'snot.
How much a company is willingto pay you is really a
(18:42):
reflection of how they valuethat role, not how valuable you
are as a person.
So, kind of, get that out ofyour head.
It's not personal.
And you've got to becollaborative Because chances
are very, very good, very, veryhigh, especially with a larger
company that the person thatyou're doing the negotiating
(19:05):
with does not have the power togive you what you are asking for
.
So you basically have to createthe kind of relationship that
makes them want to advocate onyour behalf.
And so, you know, having thisentitlement mentality or having
(19:25):
the mentality of you know, oh no, they're going to think I'm a
bad person if I negotiate Bothof those things don't really
help you, because when we thinkabout a collaboration, we're
thinking about people who youknow likely have a similar power
dynamic, and whether you think,oh, the company is so important
(19:46):
they will never negotiate withlittle old me to the company is
very lucky to even have me talkto them Both of those things are
not the ideal situation in truecollaboration.
John Neral (19:59):
Yeah, and I really appreciate, kate, how you keep
bringing this conversation backto how the candidate is
collaborating on this offer.
Right, it is that partnershipin terms of how they get to know
you and, in the same breath,you get to know them as well
(20:19):
right, but it is that kind ofcollaboration that makes this
actually work so much better.
In that regard, and to yourpoint earlier, a really good
negotiation.
You're going to get some things, you're not going to get some
other things.
Both people end up essentiallybeing happy in that regard.
Kate Dixon (20:37):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know again.
You know having the employee,potential employee coming in and
you know, one of the big thingsthat I tell people with salary
negotiation is you have to readevery single thing that you get
from the employer, right, andthat includes the big boring
(20:58):
benefits booklet that you get,because they're going to be
things in there that they'regoing to tell you about stuff,
right, and so you want to know,you really want to understand
that, so you can valueeverything appropriately,
because there could be thingsthat you know the new employer
does that your old employerdidn't both good and bad, and
(21:19):
both of those data points aregoing to help you know how to
negotiate, or know what to askfor.
John Neral (21:27):
So when you're working with someone and you're
helping them negotiate theirsalary, their compensation
package, and you have learnedfrom them that they're a little
hesitant about being confidentin terms of what they're going
to ask for, how do you helpsomeone build confidence around
(21:47):
asking for what they want andleaning into believing what
they're worth?
Kate Dixon (21:52):
Yeah, well, there are a couple of different things
.
So one is understanding whatthe market is for the kind of
work that they're doing, right,so you know.
Only the company is going toknow what, how much they're
going to be willing to pay orhow much they're going to be
willing to increase their offer.
You can't know that.
But you can know kind of theecosystem of what's going on in
(22:15):
the marketplace and so you knowsome of that's going to be
looking online.
Salarycom is awesome, some ofthat's going to be looking
online.
Sellercom is awesome.
You know they're just all kindsof glass door has stuff and
just go out and look at that.
And you can also talk to peoplewho are in the kinds of roles
that you want to go into andinstead of saying, hey, how much
(22:38):
do you make John, you might say, hey, my research is showing
that jobs like this are paidbetween X and Y in the
marketplace.
How does that land with you?
And then you're taking thepressure off them to.
You know they don't need tonecessarily share, although
people are getting morecomfortable sharing their own
salaries than they are when Iwas coming up.
(22:59):
So, um, so if they do share,then that's great, but if they
don't, you can still get anassessment of what's going on in
the marketplace by asking thatkind of question.
So that's part of it.
Um, another thing that we do iswe have script, we, we?
We have a script for how theconversation should go.
(23:21):
I have a four-part conversationrecipe about you know what you
do at each stage and you knowthose kinds of things can really
help and you practice.
One of the things that peoplethink they don't need to do is
practice these conversations,and it's fundamentally different
when you're practicing insideyour head and when you're
(23:43):
speaking the words, because Idon't know about you, but I am
like super smooth when I'm doingit in my head, but you know
when words are actually comingout of my mouth maybe not quite
as good, and so, practicing youknow, if you've got somebody at
home that you can practice withand they can do a role play with
you, that's great.
But you know, talk to your dog.
(24:04):
My dog is great.
He'll listen to me all day long, even if I repeat the same
conversation over multiple times.
But you know you can do it andrecord yourself on your phone
and you know, play it back andlisten to yourself, but
sometimes that can make you feela little bit weird, but just do
(24:24):
practice right.
And, and you know, if you can'tdo anything else, if you don't
want to like, oh God, a fourpart recipe, that sounds a lot.
I have seven magic words foryou, seven magic words of salary
negotiation.
And they are what kind offlexibility do you have, right?
(24:46):
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
So, if you, you know, you cansay, oh, you know, thanks for
the offer.
I see that it's, you know,100,000.
I was really looking forsomething in the 120s range.
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
And then, the most importantpart of that conversation is the
(25:08):
silence that happens afterYou're going to.
Oh, my God, I'm so nervous.
I want to say something.
Give them a second.
You're asking a question that'snot a yes or no question, which
is important because you wanttheir brain to slow down enough
so that they can actuallyprocess it right.
So you have to let them processit, and it's going to feel like
(25:29):
forever, but it's not.
It's probably going to be, youknow, 20 or 30 seconds.
Just be quiet, let them answerand then see what happens.
John Neral (25:40):
You and I are on the same page.
With that, I do the same thingwith my clients in terms of
rehearsing with them, aboutasking the question and not
saying anything after.
Hold that space, let thembreathe, let them react, let
them respond.
You just got to be prepared tolisten.
That's all you need to do atthat point.
That's such.
The seven words are fantastic.
(26:02):
I thank you for sharing themwith us.
I can only imagine you've gotso many wonderful stories from
the people whom you've helpedover the years.
Would you share with us oneparticular success story that
just tells us a little bit moreabout who you are and how you
help people.
Kate Dixon (26:21):
Sure, um, that just tells us a little bit more about
who you are and how you helppeople.
Um, sure, so there, there's onethat sticks out to me.
Um, there was a woman that I,uh, that I helped, who was going
to, um, her dream company um, afortune, let's say 10.
So we don't like tell you whoit is right off the top, but
(26:42):
really, really great company.
It was a nice big increase toher responsibilities.
It was going to require her tomove across the country, and so
she was really focused onnegotiating her base pay, her
sign-on bonus and her equity,because she was getting stock
(27:05):
options.
And so I'd asked her about therelocation package and she's
like oh well, they have twooptions.
You can either just take a cashbonus and then do it yourself,
or you can have the company.
Do you know the relocationservices and stuff like that?
And she's like you know, I feelreally uncomfortable having
(27:30):
people know all about what Iwant to do, so I'm just going to
take the cash.
(27:52):
So I read all of you know therelocation policy and you know a
number of different things, andsaid to her well, here's what
happens if you do use therelocation services versus if
you don't.
And we kind of enumerated thecosts of moving if she didn't
take the reloc policy and it wasgoing to save her I think it
was over $30,000 to use theirrelocation services rather than
to just take a bonus and pay thecost out of that bonus.
(28:15):
So I was delighted to be ableto do that.
And then we also were able toget her some more on the cash
and equity side, which, seeingwhat their stock price did in
the, you know, three years afterwe did that negotiation, was a
really great move for her.
So I think that was kind ofnice because it was kind of all
(28:37):
encompassing.
But you know, we've had so manygreat success stories with with
my clients.
I just I'm so proud of thembecause you know I can, I can
coach them and tell them what todo and stuff.
But bottom line, they're theones in these conversations and
so I love it when, when theythey, you know, do what they are
(28:58):
coached to do and they get thekind of results that they were
dreaming of.
John Neral (29:02):
So that's the power of coaching you know, like you
said, and to, to really get themto to stand in their own, their
own power, their own confidenceand everything, to go ahead and
do that.
That's, that's phenomenal, sothat's the best thing.
Kate Dixon (29:17):
That's why we love coaching.
John Neral (29:18):
So yeah, absolutely so.
Kate, we're going to startwrapping up here.
You've shared so many wonderfulthings with us today and I
really appreciate it, but as westart wrapping up, what advice
would you give someone listeningtoday to help them build their
mid-career GPS to whatever'snext for them in their careers?
Kate Dixon (29:43):
for them in their careers.
I think the big thing is toreally know yourself, know the
kinds of things that you value,know the kinds of things that
light you up, and because whenyou know yourself, you're going
to know whether a new company isgoing to meet those needs that
you have of your.
You know, have that valuealignment.
(30:03):
You're going to know if goingout on your own is going to be
aligned with who you really areand you know when, when you do
start your company, you'll knowwhether your clients are in
alignment, and that's reallyimportant as well.
So that self-knowledge, anytime that you can spend really
understanding yourself better,is time well spent.
John Neral (30:28):
Thank you for that.
So, kate, if anyone wants toreach out, connect with you,
find you, learn more about youand what you do, I'm going to
turn the mic over to you.
Please share with us all thegreat places where people can
find and connect with you.
Kate Dixon (30:40):
Okay, so my website is katedixonorg, so katedixonorg
, I've got lots of blog poststhat have really specific
information about salarynegotiation.
You can get to that for free.
I have a book and you can seeit like right over my head
(31:04):
called Pay Up, and you can buythat anywhere.
Books are sold and I'm onLinkedIn at Kate Dixon Coach and
I'd love to connect with yourlisteners.
John Neral (31:18):
I will make sure all of that is in the show notes.
But, kate Dixon, thank you somuch for adding to this
conversation here today.
It was really great having youon the show.
Thanks for being a great gueston the Mid-Career GPS podcast.
Kate Dixon (31:30):
My pleasure, thank you.
John Neral (31:32):
All right, my friends.
So Kate and I set an intentiontoday for our conversation,
which was she wanted to leaveyou with some immediate tips
that you could take action with.
There are three things I wantto call out in summation.
So the first one is that inyour negotiation, this is an
opportunity to show them who youare.
Don't be a jerk, right?
(31:53):
How you show up in thisconversation is so important
because, to Kate's point, youare collaborating and solving a
business problem, right?
The second thing is this isn'tpersonal.
This is about where they seethe value in the role, not in
the value in you per se.
So when you think aboutnegotiating your salary, go back
(32:15):
to what Kate said about usingwebsites like salarycom and
Glassdoor and leveraging yournetwork, about getting as much
salary information as you can tohelp you best prepare for that
conversation.
And the third thing was herseven magic words what kind of
flexibility do you have?
Can you imagine asking thatquestion during a salary
(32:37):
negotiation?
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
Can you imagine asking thatquestion during a salary
negotiation?
What kind of flexibility do youhave and then waiting to hear
their response?
What would that feel like foryou to show up and ask that
question in any interview orafter you've gotten the job
offer.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
(32:59):
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
(33:19):
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(33:40):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank, you.
Picture it You've got the job offer and now you're
looking at the compensationpackage.
Your brain is filled with somany thoughts about whether or
not it's a good offer or whatcould make it a great offer.
What do you ask for?
Where can you negotiate what'sfair and reasonable versus
(00:21):
asking for everything you want?
What's a mid-careerprofessional like you to do?
This week's guest is here tohelp you negotiate the job offer
and examine it from both sidesof the table.
In a moment, you will meet KateDixon, salary negotiator and
services pricing coach, who'shere to talk to you about
negotiating your next job offerand how you can show up and they
(00:45):
can show up and they can pay up.
Let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
(01:06):
love, or love the career theyhave, using my proven four-step
formula.
Before we get to today'sepisode, I've got a quick
announcement.
Last week, we celebrated the300th episode of the Mid-Career
GPS podcast and I want to thankyou.
Thank you for your emails, yourtext, your comments and your
posts helping me promote thismilestone achievement and, in
(01:30):
case you missed it, it's part ofthat celebration.
I've got a free guide and aspecial Zoom event for you.
You can visit johnneral.
com/resources or check the shownotes to download your free
guide 10 must listen episodes tohelp you navigate what's next.
Celebrating 300 episodes ofclarity, confidence and career
(01:54):
direction.
When you download the guide,you'll receive an invite to a
special live Zoom event I'mhosting on Wednesday, june 25th
at 7 pm Eastern event I'mhosting on Wednesday, June 25th
at 7 pm Eastern.
Come join us to celebrate thepodcast and I'll be there to
answer your career questions.
Again, visit johnneral.
com/resources to download theguide and learn more.
(02:18):
Whether you're exploring newopportunities, entertaining a
job offer or trying to advocatefor yourself in your current
role, you will want to pay closeattention to what my guest has
to say.
This week, I am joined by KateDixon, a true expert in
compensation strategy and theauthor of the award-winning book
(02:38):
Pay Up Unlocking InsiderSecrets of Salary Negotiation.
Kate is the principal andfounder of Dixon Consulting, a B
Corp certified leadershipdevelopment and total rewards
consultancy.
With over 30 years ofexperience as a certified
compensation professional and acertified coach, kate brings a
(03:00):
wealth of practical advice andreal-world wisdom to the
conversation.
Wealth of practical advice andreal-world wisdom to the
conversation.
In our interview, kate sharesher own powerful mid-career
story, including what it feltlike to be early retired and how
that moment sparked a new andfulfilling chapter in her career
.
She also opens up about thefears many job seekers face when
(03:21):
it comes to negotiating offersand reveals what most people
miss when it comes to asking forwhat they're worth.
If you've ever wondered how tomake sure you're not leaving
money or value on the table, myfriends, this episode is for you
.
So grab a notebook or listeningclosely.
(03:42):
You're about to get amasterclass in negotiating your
worth.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Kate Dixon.
Hi, kate, welcome to thepodcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
So good to be here todayspecifically around how
(04:06):
mid-career professionals arelooking at their compensation
and where they can benegotiating perhaps a little bit
differently or morestrategically.
But before we get into all ofthat, would you please share
with us what was your mid-careermoment?
Kate Dixon (04:18):
I think my mid-career moment was when I was
invited to retire early from abrand that I had worked with for
12 years.
I loved, loved, do love thecompany and I had been working
(04:41):
like a trillion hours towardsome strategic priorities.
And then got this invitation,along with many, many of my
friends, and I saw that as asign that I needed to restart my
consulting practice.
I had a consulting practicewhen my kids were young and then
(05:02):
went back into corporateAmerica and then got early
retired, and that as a sign togo back and do my own thing
again and an invitation for that.
John Neral (05:18):
Were you surprised when you were quote unquote
early retired?
Kate Dixon (05:23):
I was because our, our department, had been
traditionally underfunded andunderstaffed according to all
benchmarks, and, and so it was,and, and you know compensation
is not something that you knowjust grows on trees.
So, in terms of you know peoplewho do this work, so I was a
(05:46):
lot more surprised than maybe Ishould have been.
John Neral (05:51):
I really appreciate you sharing that, because we
know so far as we're almosthalfway through 2025.
And it kind of jolts me to saythat a little bit, because there
are times when I feel like thisyear is going very slowly and
other times when I feel likeit's going rather quickly but
what we're seeing in the jobmarket both from those people
who are civil servants andfederal and government employees
(06:13):
, as well as to those who arecorporate employees and
nonprofit employees that thisconversation around taking early
retirement or be it being laidoff or rift, is something which
we have seen is happening to alot more people than what
perhaps many thought at thebeginning of the year.
Kate Dixon (06:33):
Mm-hmm.
John Neral (06:34):
Yeah, and so when you sit there and you look at
how your work life as well asyour personal life, kind of
dramatically changes, in thatyou no longer have a job, walk
us through a little bit aboutwhy it was so important for you
to go back to your consultingrole and your own private
(06:59):
practice, to go and relaunchthat again, maybe in a different
way.
Kate Dixon (07:03):
You know, I think for me it's a different choice
than a lot of the folks who gotlaid off at the same time that I
did.
I mean, several of us went onto start businesses and several
of us went to other corporatecareers or nonprofit careers and
I think it really depends onwhat it is that drives you.
(07:27):
I love being an entrepreneur,that's something that you know.
I started four differentsuccessful businesses over the
course of my my life and havereally enjoyed that.
Not everybody does, because ityou have to have kind of a weird
combination of um, you know,especially if you're a
(07:47):
consultant, you're sellingyourself and so you have to have
, you know, this confidence tosell yourself as a product, as
well as the paranoia to keepyour um pipeline, um full of
work.
So it's kind of a uniquesituation.
I I love it and I love thecreativity that it provides.
I love being able to choose myown clients, which is fantastic.
(08:10):
But you know again, it's notsomething that's for everyone.
But you know, being in thatkind of moment, that inflection
point is, it's so important toknow kinds of the kinds of
things that really you careabout, the things that you want,
and some folks love that risktaking and some folks don't, and
(08:32):
both choices are great choices.
John Neral (08:38):
Absolutely and when we've talked before today's
interview.
But in learning more about youand getting to know you, I think
the one thing we can a primarydriver for someone listening
today or not we have toacknowledge that how we are paid
(09:05):
for our services and how we arecompensated is important.
As a compensation consultant,tell people what exactly you do.
Kate Dixon (09:16):
Well, primarily so.
I have a portfolio of differentthings that I do in my work,
but with compensation consulting, we're essentially helping
organizations figure out how topay people, so sometimes that's
in the form of executivecompensation, sometimes that is
in the form of creating jobarchitectures and salary
(09:39):
structures, sometimes it's aboutincentive programs, sometimes
it's about consulting withboards.
We do all kinds of differentthings and that's what makes it
more fun for me.
The other portfolio of thingsthat I do.
I do coaching, because I'm acertified coach, so I do salary
negotiation coaching, services,pricing coaching for people like
(10:00):
me who are consultants orfreelancers, and that kind of
stuff.
And I also do executivecoaching, which is kind of the
traditional coaching that a lotof people think about.
John Neral (10:14):
So when we think about that mid-career
professional who is entertaininga job offer, they find our
conversation.
They're thinking aboutnegotiating that job offer.
I want to take us through twodifferent examples of a
mid-career professional who isfinalizing their job offer,
(10:38):
their compensation package andeverything.
So we'll take person one.
Okay, they are hesitant,fearful or trepidatious about
asking for something additionalin their salary negotiation, for
whatever reason it may be,because they've been out of work
(11:00):
for a while, they really likethe job, they don't want to push
the boundaries.
And so for that person inparticular that is looking at
the job offer and thinking theyshould just go ahead and accept
it and I know this is a ratherbroad example.
But for those people who arethinking I'm just going to go
ahead and accept it, what aresome of the things you could
(11:21):
highlight that they mightpotentially be missing when it
comes to their salarynegotiation?
Kate Dixon (11:27):
Well, research shows that people who do salary
negotiation, about 80% of themwind up getting something, and
it may not be in base pay, itmay be some other kinds of thing
that they get.
Maybe they get a little bithigher bonus or a sign on bonus
or something like that.
But you know, those odds arepretty good.
(11:49):
And my biggest number one tipis don't be a jerk and the kind
of opposite of that, becausepeople, you know, I think people
see this stuff on on TV andthey're like, you know, I just
have to be a hard hitter.
They need to see that I can,you know, really go in there and
(12:10):
stake my claim.
This equation right.
In reality, it really needs tobe a collaborative problem
solving.
This is a business problem,right?
The business problem is theywant to hire you and you want to
hire salary or you know betterbenefits or something right.
(12:33):
So that's a business problem.
And if you can treat it lessemotionally and more like
solving a business problem andbeing collaborative and seeking
solutions and making sure thatthere are, you know, multiple
ways for you to get what youneed, then you know again, a lot
(12:54):
of the things that we reallyfear about like kind of go away.
John Neral (13:01):
So, staying with that same scenario and I loved
how you phrased about not beinga jerk, because it's so true,
right, I can appreciate that aswell, in my experiences too.
What would you say are some ofthe things that job seekers who
are negotiating their offershould really shy away from?
(13:26):
For example, people want adifferent benefits package.
They want more vacation timethan what they are told they are
going to get, based oneverybody in the company.
Is there anything like thatthat you would say is kind of a
waste of their time to negotiatearound, or is anything fair
game?
Kate Dixon (13:46):
Well, you know I don't want to say never do any,
you know any particular thingbut in general, if you're with
an established company or goingto an established company,
things like the benefits packageis not going to be negotiable.
That things like the benefitspackage is not going to be
negotiable, you know.
Again, you should know as muchas you can about it.
(14:06):
But things like retirementcontributions not negotiable,
things like benefit premiums notnegotiable, and so you may as
well not spend effort there.
What typically people do getsome movement on are things like
base pay, sign-on bonuses, andwe can talk a little bit about
(14:31):
what kinds of things you shouldbe thinking about with sign-on
bonuses.
But sign-on bonuses, start date, negotiating your start date
Sometimes, if you're not able tomake the kind of progress that
you want to on your cashcompensation, you might be able
to negotiate some money towarddevelopment, things like that.
(14:53):
Those tend to be things thatyou can and probably should try
to negotiate Because, again, theodds of you getting something
are reasonably good.
And I do think that it's a goodthing for both the potential
employee and the potentialemployer when the candidate does
(15:15):
negotiate, because, again, youknow you as the candidate are
really, you know, acting in thepower that you have and you do
have power because they wouldn'thave offered you the job if
they didn't want you and soyou're acting in your power but
(15:37):
you're also showing them who youare as a leader and as an
employee, and that is solid gold.
So you know, again, if you'reapproaching this like a
collaborative problem thatyou're solving and you're
working with HR, you know, evenif you don't get anything, you
still have created a little bitof a relationship with somebody
(15:59):
who might be an ally later on.
When you come to the companyand when you treat your
recruiter or your HR rep well,that I can promise you is going
to have knock on consequencesthat are really good for you
when you get to the organizationBecause, again, you know, these
folks are going to be talkingto the hiring manager and go oh
(16:22):
wow, john, I'm telling you he'ssuch a great hire, we're so
lucky to get him.
That can help you way more thaneven getting, you know, a
$10,000 increase in your basepay.
John Neral (16:36):
That's such a great point.
Great point and I thinkoftentimes people may forget
that it is that relationshipbuilding across the entire
hiring process that can reallyhelp or hinder, not only whether
you get the job offer or not,but what happens when it comes
to negotiating.
So I really appreciate youcalling that out?
(16:58):
Yeah, so, kate, let's take alook at the second type of
person.
Okay, so they've got this joboffer and, for context, let's
say that they've accepted a joboffer with a rather large
company, we'll say Fortune 250,fortune 100.
Kate Dixon (17:15):
Okay, Somewhere in there, okay.
John Neral (17:17):
And they're mid-level, senior-level type
position and they're looking attheir compensation package and
they're saying it is going to benothing for them to throw me an
extra $40,000 or $50,000 intothis compensation package.
I'm worth it, I deserve it, I'mgoing to ask for it and I am
(17:40):
not going to back down.
Thinking about that type ofscenario, what could you tell us
might potentially be helpful orhurtful for them, with that
mindset going into theirnegotiation?
Yeah.
Kate Dixon (17:58):
Um, first of all, I would say this is not the Hunger
Games, so let's not treat itlike it is.
It's like it's not Highlander.
There can only be one right.
And this is a conversation thatI often have with my clients
who are in sales and stuff.
Because, you know, they feellike, wow, you know, this is
(18:18):
what, this is the work that I'mgoing to be doing for the
company.
They feel like, wow, you know,this is what.
This is the work that I'm goingto be doing for the company.
And you know what does it sayabout me as a potential employee
if I can't do a good job ofnegotiating again, you know, the
key to unlock all of this stuffis it's a.
It's not personal, because it'snot.
How much a company is willingto pay you is really a
(18:42):
reflection of how they valuethat role, not how valuable you
are as a person.
So, kind of, get that out ofyour head.
It's not personal.
And you've got to becollaborative Because chances
are very, very good, very, veryhigh, especially with a larger
company that the person thatyou're doing the negotiating
(19:05):
with does not have the power togive you what you are asking for
.
So you basically have to createthe kind of relationship that
makes them want to advocate onyour behalf.
And so, you know, having thisentitlement mentality or having
(19:25):
the mentality of you know, oh no, they're going to think I'm a
bad person if I negotiate Bothof those things don't really
help you, because when we thinkabout a collaboration, we're
thinking about people who youknow likely have a similar power
dynamic, and whether you think,oh, the company is so important
(19:46):
they will never negotiate withlittle old me to the company is
very lucky to even have me talkto them Both of those things are
not the ideal situation in truecollaboration.
John Neral (19:59):
Yeah, and I really appreciate, kate, how you keep
bringing this conversation backto how the candidate is
collaborating on this offer.
Right, it is that partnershipin terms of how they get to know
you and, in the same breath,you get to know them as well
(20:19):
right, but it is that kind ofcollaboration that makes this
actually work so much better.
In that regard, and to yourpoint earlier, a really good
negotiation.
You're going to get some things, you're not going to get some
other things.
Both people end up essentiallybeing happy in that regard.
Kate Dixon (20:37):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know again.
You know having the employee,potential employee coming in and
you know, one of the big thingsthat I tell people with salary
negotiation is you have to readevery single thing that you get
from the employer, right, andthat includes the big boring
(20:58):
benefits booklet that you get,because they're going to be
things in there that they'regoing to tell you about stuff,
right, and so you want to know,you really want to understand
that, so you can valueeverything appropriately,
because there could be thingsthat you know the new employer
does that your old employerdidn't both good and bad, and
(21:19):
both of those data points aregoing to help you know how to
negotiate, or know what to askfor.
John Neral (21:27):
So when you're working with someone and you're
helping them negotiate theirsalary, their compensation
package, and you have learnedfrom them that they're a little
hesitant about being confidentin terms of what they're going
to ask for, how do you helpsomeone build confidence around
(21:47):
asking for what they want andleaning into believing what
they're worth?
Kate Dixon (21:52):
Yeah, well, there are a couple of different things
.
So one is understanding whatthe market is for the kind of
work that they're doing, right,so you know.
Only the company is going toknow what, how much they're
going to be willing to pay orhow much they're going to be
willing to increase their offer.
You can't know that.
But you can know kind of theecosystem of what's going on in
(22:15):
the marketplace and so you knowsome of that's going to be
looking online.
Salarycom is awesome, some ofthat's going to be looking
online.
Sellercom is awesome.
You know they're just all kindsof glass door has stuff and
just go out and look at that.
And you can also talk to peoplewho are in the kinds of roles
that you want to go into andinstead of saying, hey, how much
(22:38):
do you make John, you might say, hey, my research is showing
that jobs like this are paidbetween X and Y in the
marketplace.
How does that land with you?
And then you're taking thepressure off them to.
You know they don't need tonecessarily share, although
people are getting morecomfortable sharing their own
salaries than they are when Iwas coming up.
(22:59):
So, um, so if they do share,then that's great, but if they
don't, you can still get anassessment of what's going on in
the marketplace by asking thatkind of question.
So that's part of it.
Um, another thing that we do iswe have script, we, we?
We have a script for how theconversation should go.
(23:21):
I have a four-part conversationrecipe about you know what you
do at each stage and you knowthose kinds of things can really
help and you practice.
One of the things that peoplethink they don't need to do is
practice these conversations,and it's fundamentally different
when you're practicing insideyour head and when you're
(23:43):
speaking the words, because Idon't know about you, but I am
like super smooth when I'm doingit in my head, but you know
when words are actually comingout of my mouth maybe not quite
as good, and so, practicing youknow, if you've got somebody at
home that you can practice withand they can do a role play with
you, that's great.
But you know, talk to your dog.
(24:04):
My dog is great.
He'll listen to me all day long, even if I repeat the same
conversation over multiple times.
But you know you can do it andrecord yourself on your phone
and you know, play it back andlisten to yourself, but
sometimes that can make you feela little bit weird, but just do
(24:24):
practice right.
And, and you know, if you can'tdo anything else, if you don't
want to like, oh God, a fourpart recipe, that sounds a lot.
I have seven magic words foryou, seven magic words of salary
negotiation.
And they are what kind offlexibility do you have, right?
(24:46):
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
So, if you, you know, you cansay, oh, you know, thanks for
the offer.
I see that it's, you know,100,000.
I was really looking forsomething in the 120s range.
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
And then, the most importantpart of that conversation is the
(25:08):
silence that happens afterYou're going to.
Oh, my God, I'm so nervous.
I want to say something.
Give them a second.
You're asking a question that'snot a yes or no question, which
is important because you wanttheir brain to slow down enough
so that they can actuallyprocess it right.
So you have to let them processit, and it's going to feel like
(25:29):
forever, but it's not.
It's probably going to be, youknow, 20 or 30 seconds.
Just be quiet, let them answerand then see what happens.
John Neral (25:40):
You and I are on the same page.
With that, I do the same thingwith my clients in terms of
rehearsing with them, aboutasking the question and not
saying anything after.
Hold that space, let thembreathe, let them react, let
them respond.
You just got to be prepared tolisten.
That's all you need to do atthat point.
That's such.
The seven words are fantastic.
(26:02):
I thank you for sharing themwith us.
I can only imagine you've gotso many wonderful stories from
the people whom you've helpedover the years.
Would you share with us oneparticular success story that
just tells us a little bit moreabout who you are and how you
help people.
Kate Dixon (26:21):
Sure, um, that just tells us a little bit more about
who you are and how you helppeople.
Um, sure, so there, there's onethat sticks out to me.
Um, there was a woman that I,uh, that I helped, who was going
to, um, her dream company um, afortune, let's say 10.
So we don't like tell you whoit is right off the top, but
(26:42):
really, really great company.
It was a nice big increase toher responsibilities.
It was going to require her tomove across the country, and so
she was really focused onnegotiating her base pay, her
sign-on bonus and her equity,because she was getting stock
(27:05):
options.
And so I'd asked her about therelocation package and she's
like oh well, they have twooptions.
You can either just take a cashbonus and then do it yourself,
or you can have the company.
Do you know the relocationservices and stuff like that?
And she's like you know, I feelreally uncomfortable having
(27:30):
people know all about what Iwant to do, so I'm just going to
take the cash.
(27:52):
So I read all of you know therelocation policy and you know a
number of different things, andsaid to her well, here's what
happens if you do use therelocation services versus if
you don't.
And we kind of enumerated thecosts of moving if she didn't
take the reloc policy and it wasgoing to save her I think it
was over $30,000 to use theirrelocation services rather than
to just take a bonus and pay thecost out of that bonus.
(28:15):
So I was delighted to be ableto do that.
And then we also were able toget her some more on the cash
and equity side, which, seeingwhat their stock price did in
the, you know, three years afterwe did that negotiation, was a
really great move for her.
So I think that was kind ofnice because it was kind of all
(28:37):
encompassing.
But you know, we've had so manygreat success stories with with
my clients.
I just I'm so proud of thembecause you know I can, I can
coach them and tell them what todo and stuff.
But bottom line, they're theones in these conversations and
so I love it when, when theythey, you know, do what they are
(28:58):
coached to do and they get thekind of results that they were
dreaming of.
John Neral (29:02):
So that's the power of coaching you know, like you
said, and to, to really get themto to stand in their own, their
own power, their own confidenceand everything, to go ahead and
do that.
That's, that's phenomenal, sothat's the best thing.
Kate Dixon (29:17):
That's why we love coaching.
John Neral (29:18):
So yeah, absolutely so.
Kate, we're going to startwrapping up here.
You've shared so many wonderfulthings with us today and I
really appreciate it, but as westart wrapping up, what advice
would you give someone listeningtoday to help them build their
mid-career GPS to whatever'snext for them in their careers?
Kate Dixon (29:43):
for them in their careers.
I think the big thing is toreally know yourself, know the
kinds of things that you value,know the kinds of things that
light you up, and because whenyou know yourself, you're going
to know whether a new company isgoing to meet those needs that
you have of your.
You know, have that valuealignment.
(30:03):
You're going to know if goingout on your own is going to be
aligned with who you really areand you know when, when you do
start your company, you'll knowwhether your clients are in
alignment, and that's reallyimportant as well.
So that self-knowledge, anytime that you can spend really
understanding yourself better,is time well spent.
John Neral (30:28):
Thank you for that.
So, kate, if anyone wants toreach out, connect with you,
find you, learn more about youand what you do, I'm going to
turn the mic over to you.
Please share with us all thegreat places where people can
find and connect with you.
Kate Dixon (30:40):
Okay, so my website is katedixonorg, so katedixonorg
, I've got lots of blog poststhat have really specific
information about salarynegotiation.
You can get to that for free.
I have a book and you can seeit like right over my head
(31:04):
called Pay Up, and you can buythat anywhere.
Books are sold and I'm onLinkedIn at Kate Dixon Coach and
I'd love to connect with yourlisteners.
John Neral (31:18):
I will make sure all of that is in the show notes.
But, kate Dixon, thank you somuch for adding to this
conversation here today.
It was really great having youon the show.
Thanks for being a great gueston the Mid-Career GPS podcast.
Kate Dixon (31:30):
My pleasure, thank you.
John Neral (31:32):
All right, my friends.
So Kate and I set an intentiontoday for our conversation,
which was she wanted to leaveyou with some immediate tips
that you could take action with.
There are three things I wantto call out in summation.
So the first one is that inyour negotiation, this is an
opportunity to show them who youare.
Don't be a jerk, right?
(31:53):
How you show up in thisconversation is so important
because, to Kate's point, youare collaborating and solving a
business problem, right?
The second thing is this isn'tpersonal.
This is about where they seethe value in the role, not in
the value in you per se.
So when you think aboutnegotiating your salary, go back
(32:15):
to what Kate said about usingwebsites like salarycom and
Glassdoor and leveraging yournetwork, about getting as much
salary information as you can tohelp you best prepare for that
conversation.
And the third thing was herseven magic words what kind of
flexibility do you have?
Can you imagine asking thatquestion during a salary
(32:37):
negotiation?
What kind of flexibility do youhave?
Can you imagine asking thatquestion during a salary
negotiation?
What kind of flexibility do youhave and then waiting to hear
their response?
What would that feel like foryou to show up and ask that
question in any interview orafter you've gotten the job
offer.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
(32:59):
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
(33:19):
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(33:40):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank, you.
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