July 8, 2025 • 31 mins
If you’ve ever cringed at the sound of your own voice during a Zoom call or playback, you’re not alone. But what if your voice was the key to getting promoted, speaking with more confidence, or finally being seen as a leader?
In this episode of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, BBC-trained executive voice coach David Pope joins John Neral for a transformative conversation about how your voice impacts your leadership brand, career growth, and personal confidence.
With a client list that includes CEOs, TEDx speakers, and professionals worldwide, David breaks down the science behind vocal perception and how people make snap judgments about your competence and executive presence based on how you sound.
You’ll walk away with actionable strategies to sound more confident in interviews, meetings, and presentations—even if you're feeling nervous inside.
Tune in to learn:
- Why mid-career professionals must pay attention to their voice in today’s competitive job market
- The psychological impact of how we sound—and why it affects hiring and promotion decisions
- How to project authentic gravitas without faking a deeper or “stronger” voice
- The real reason we hate hearing ourselves recorded—and how to get over it
- How vocal variety, pace, and strategic pauses can dramatically increase your impact
- A practical voice training toolkit: posture, diaphragmatic breathing, pitch control, and articulation
- Why slowing down helps you own the room and lead with authority
- A powerful success story of a job seeker who used voice coaching to land her dream role
- How to build a “virtuous circle” of speaking confidence and positive feedback
- The deep connection between your voice, self-worth, and career clarity
Whether you're preparing for a big interview, looking to get promoted, or want to show up with more confidence in your current role, this episode gives you the tools to speak like the leader you already are.
Connect with David Pope
Free Public Speaking Bundle | LinkedIn |
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Visit https://johnneral.com/resources for free and low-ticket resources, including how to join The Mid-Career GPS Membership Community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:01):
One of the biggest fears we have as human beings is
speaking in public.
Now I'm not just talking aboutgetting up on a stage and
delivering a presentation.
I'm talking about even speakingup at a meeting.
What would it look like for youto have more confidence when
speaking?
Would you like to have agreater presence when you're
(00:23):
speaking or delivering thatpresentation?
And have you ever said toyourself I don't like the sound
of my own voice?
I have.
If you've answered yes to anyof these questions, my guest
today will help you calm yournerves, speak more confidently
and have more people wanting tohear what you have to say.
(00:45):
Today, you will meet BBCtrained executive voice coach,
david Pope.
David joins me to help youimprove your voice so you can
advance your career.
Let's get started.
(01:09):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
love, or love the one they have,using my proven four-step
formula.
If you've ever wanted toimprove your public speaking
skills or speak more confidentlywhen presenting at meetings,
David Pope is here to help you.
(01:30):
Starting at the BBC, David hassince worked as an audio
producer, studio director andnow as an executive voice coach
Through the company he founded,all Voice Talented Limited.
He brings 30 years ofexperience in recording studios
to the thousands of businessprofessionals he has worked with
globally, from managingpartners, lawyers and CEOs to
(01:54):
business executives and TEDxspeakers.
His one-on-one coachingsessions, workshops and online
video courses focus ontransforming voices, helping
good speakers become greatspeakers.
Let's get into it.
I hope you enjoy myconversation with David Pope.
David Pope, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:16):
It is great to have you heretoday.
David Pope (02:19):
Thank you so much, John.
I'm absolutely delighted to behere Thrilled.
John Neral (02:23):
I am as well.
I am looking forward to ourconversation today, but, david,
before we get started, you'vegot a couple of mid-career
moments that I'd love for you toshare with the listeners, just
so they can get to know you alittle bit more.
David Pope (02:37):
Absolutely Okay.
Let me share the two thingsthat have really shaped where
I'm at right now.
So the first one was I spentmany, many years in recording
studios as an audio producer anda studio director.
About 15 years ago, becausepeople had heard the work that
I've been doing with helpingprofessional voiceover talent to
(03:01):
be able to use their best voiceto sell a product.
Now what happened was peoplestarted emailing me saying
things like I've been hearingabout you, I work in corporate
communications, I'm in banking,I'm in legal, I have to have
interviews, my boss has told methat I need to speak with more
(03:23):
authority, feel less than I'vegot imposter syndrome.
I hate giving presentations.
Is this something that you canhelp me with?
So I realized of course I can,because I spent many, many years
working with people to givetheir best voice, and so what I
did was I created a series ofcoaching programs empowering
(03:46):
people to be able to use theirvoice more effectively in the
workplace.
So that was my first careermoment, because, basically, I
shifted into this whole area ofbeing an executive voice.
My second one came, and Ispecifically February 2020.
And this was because I wasasked to work down in Singapore.
(04:11):
I was down there for one week.
My diary was full.
I was giving workshops, I wasdoing one-on-one voice coaching,
and COVID started.
Bit by bit by bit, all of thejobs that I've been hired for
started getting cancelled.
So there I was.
I was in this hotel room.
(04:32):
I couldn't get a flight back toHong Kong where I'm based, and
I could go two ways.
The first way was to have apity party and sit there and
think, oh, my goodness, woe isme, or I could actually use the
time effectively.
So I got onto the one thingthat I've been wanting to do for
a long time, which was tocreate online video courses, and
(04:58):
when I got back to Hong Kong, Icreated these, and to date,
these online video courses havebeen bought by global companies,
by law firms, by people fromall around the world.
So you know, sometimes out ofthese situations a challenge and
then you see an opportunity.
So really, those were my twobig career changes career
(05:25):
changes.
John Neral (05:26):
Well, and they are big, and I love how you walked
us through those, especiallybecause, through circumstances
out of no control of our own,such as COVID and the pandemic,
you certainly found a way topivot and reach more people.
That's why you're here today,right?
So when we think about theperson who is mid-level,
mid-career and they have beengiven some kind of feedback from
(05:49):
somebody a supervisor, a leader, an executive and they're told
you need to speak moreconfidently and that's all they
tell them, so they're left tointerpret what that actually
looks like, when you're helpingpeople be a great speaker and
(06:10):
use their best voice, what doesspeaking confidently sound like
and look like to?
David Pope (06:17):
you.
Whether we like it or not, wemake judgments about people
based on the sound of the voice,and whilst we're making
judgments about other people,people are making judgments
about us.
For me, what I always talkabout with clients is this idea
(06:43):
first of all, authenticity.
This is absolutely important.
So we can speak confidently,but we need to be authentic.
I work with people focusing onthis core element, which is
about gravitas.
Now, a lot of people think thatgravitas is just about this
strong, deep, authoritativevoice.
Absolutely not.
Gravitas is about two things.
(07:03):
It's about integrating passionfor the thing that you're
talking about.
So, if you're in an interviewcoming across passionately,
enthusiastically, engaging, butalso keeping it grounded in this
sense of authority.
So, for me, speakingconfidently is about a balance.
(07:24):
It's about having authority inthe voice but also having energy
, so having warmth, beinginspiring and being engaging.
Now people might think, wow,that's a lot of stuff I've got
to think about, but if you areauthentic and if you are fully
aware of how you sound, then youcan really start putting the
(07:48):
work in.
John Neral (07:50):
Do you recommend that people listen to themselves
when they're speaking, like sothey're listening to a recording
and they're hearing it, andthen when somebody says, oh, I
hate the way my voice sounds,how do you coach them through
that?
David Pope (08:08):
Right, okay, well, most people I work with, it
doesn't matter what level theyare, if they're C-suite and
they're down to junior executivemost people I work with.
My whole process is aboutrecording the voice, playing it
back and analyzing Nearly everysingle person that I work with.
When they hear their voice,they do exactly that.
(08:29):
John, oh, my goodness, I hatethe sound of my voice, but this
is about the science, you see,because the voice that we hear
is not the voice that otherpeople hear.
Voices are like sound waves.
So when somebody speaks, thesound comes through our ears
sorry, comes through into yourears.
Right?
You're hearing me on thispodcast.
(08:50):
When we speak, the sound comesinto our ears, but we feel the
vibration that comes up throughour stomach area, our chest,
into our head.
This is what we call ourresonance chamber.
So we sometimes think thatwe're deeper and more resonant
than we actually are, and then,when we hear ourselves on a
(09:12):
recording, we always get alittle bit of a surprise Our
voice is a bit weaker, a littlebit tinnier.
Now, the process of recordingyour voice and understanding
exactly how you sound.
This is the best way to be ableto change, because people
(09:33):
usually don't like this.
They shy away from this process.
So, for example, you know, inthe interview preparation stage,
just recording yourself.
Just do it on your phone, don'tneed fancy equipment.
Record yourself, play it backand you will pick up on some of
these things I mentioned aboutmaking judgments.
(09:54):
So it might be I speak too fast, my pitch is too high,
everything that I'm saying I'mgoing, uh, um, all of these
things.
If you get all of thisinformation before you step into
that interview room, before yousit on a panel interview,
you've done a lot of the work.
John Neral (10:15):
Hey there.
Have you ever been hesitant tolike a LinkedIn post about
finding a new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
A new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
Since you're already listeningto this podcast, I want to help
you get an even bigger win inyour career and to do that, I'm
inviting you to join my freeemail community and subscribe to
(10:40):
the Mid-Career GPS newsletter.
It's delivered to your inboxtwice each week with helpful
tips, strategies and resourcesto help you find that job you
love, or love the job you have.
It's all free and you cansubscribe by visiting my website
at https://johnneral.
com.
Check the show notes or myLinkedIn.
(11:01):
For now, let's get back to theepisode.
How do you help someone slowdown when they have listened to
their recording and they feel asif they're speaking too quickly
?
Where they've gotten thatfeedback from someone and says I
can't understand what you'resaying because you're talking
way too fast.
Where does that come from?
(11:21):
Saying because you're talkingway too fast?
Where does that come from?
David Pope (11:30):
Okay.
So first of all, the pacingissue.
This is related to thatgravitas as well.
So we're thinking aboutmid-career going up.
If we are wanting to have avoice which potentially has
those leadership qualities, wedo need to slow down, because if
we're moving into, maybe,leading teams, if we are
speaking to large groups ofpeople, we have to slow down.
(11:50):
But what we need to do is weneed to make sure that we're not
speaking at a very, very slowspeed.
A lot of people make thatmistake.
They, they have this connectlike oh, if I speak really
slowly, then I will haveauthority, I will have executive
presence.
Absolutely not.
You'll put people to sleep andthey'll be starting to zone out.
(12:11):
What you need to do is havevocal variety.
Now, vocal variety is where wespeed up, we slow down, we speed
up, we slow down.
You know you and I are doingthis in this podcast, right, and
so this is how you engagepeople.
So, again, coming back to therecording process, some people I
work with they think thatthey're really slow speakers and
(12:35):
then they hear themselves andthey go oh, my goodness, I speak
really fast.
What I actually do is I turn itaround and I say, ok, here's
the thing you are trying toinfluence, you are trying to get
a buy in, you're trying to sellyourself.
You need to first of all slowdown on the key pieces of
information, because if we losethose key pieces, you're going
(12:58):
to lose that impact.
But at the same time you needto have the charisma and this is
about being a fast speaker aswell.
So it's a balance.
And then this comes back toyour question earlier about the
recorded voice.
If you hear your voice and thenyou work at measuring your pace
(13:19):
not too fast, not too slow.
John Neral (13:44):
So, david, I want to stay here for a moment on the
power of pausing and letting aparticular point sink in, to
give those who are listening anopportunity to process and
respond without the job seekeror the job candidate here
(14:07):
feeling like they need tointerject and say something
right away.
Otherwise they're going to befearful that they've
disconnected from theconversation in some way.
David Pope (14:17):
Okay, well, mark Twain.
He once said words areimportant, but no word is as
important as a rightly timedpause important as a rightly
timed pause.
So pausing does two things, asyou've said, just in terms of an
interview, it allows theaudience to understand what
you're saying.
So I like to call it audiopunctuation.
(14:39):
So just like you've got fullstops, commas, new paragraphs,
pausing of different lengthsallows the audience to take in
the information, and pausing canalso help you to control the
conversation.
Now, two things happen when weget nervous.
Well, first of all, peopledon't like those pauses, right?
(15:01):
People feel that they I've gotto say something.
But when we get nervous, twothings happen.
Number one is we speak quicker,so our pace increases.
Number two, the pitch of ourvoice goes down.
Sorry, the pitch of our voicegoes up.
So what we're trying to do is,when we are noticing that the
(15:21):
pitch of the voice is going upand we're speaking fast, this is
when it's a good idea to pause.
So these are the practicalelements, but pausing is also
it's allowing, as you rightlysaid, it's allowing the audience
, the panel, the interviewer tounderstand what you're saying,
because when people speak fast,they tend to potentially sort of
(15:44):
an information dump.
I've got to say this, I've gotto say this, and they feel that
they've got this short space oftime and they've got to squeeze
everything in.
But what they don't understandis just by pausing, as you
suggested, it allows theaudience to take in the key
(16:05):
pieces of information you see,and so when you pause, it allows
for reflection and again, withinterviews, it's very much a
two-way conversation.
So pausing is showing, it'sgiving a cue that it's time for
the dialogue to change, forpeople to start asking questions
, et cetera, having aconversation.
John Neral (16:26):
So, yeah, asking questions, et cetera, having a
conversation.
So yeah, for the person whowill say I'm awful at interviews
because I get too nervous, Istumble over my words, I don't
put coherent sentences together,and while that may be true and
(16:46):
let's acknowledge thatinterviews can be an extremely
nerve-wracking experience forsome it is also the thing they
have to do sufficiently well, ifnot exceptionally well, in
order to get that job offer.
In your expertise, david, youhelp people build a toolkit to
(17:06):
help them speak more confidentlywhen under pressure.
Could you share some of thosecomponents with us today about
what you might put in someone'stoolkit to help them speak more
confidently when under pressure?
David Pope (17:19):
Absolutely Very, very practical stuff.
So, neuroscience when we getnervous, cortisol, cortisol
rages.
This is the amygdala, you know,it's the reptile brain
terrifying.
And what happens is we get intoour head.
And when we get into our head,this is when, potentially,
things start to fall apart.
(17:40):
And so what I do when I'mworking with people, I work them
through a process.
So I've worked with TEDxspeakers, I work with C-suite
level, getting them ready forconferences, speaking in front
of like maybe 2000 people.
It happens to all of us.
We do get nervous, even one onone in an interview.
(18:01):
Okay, so what I will usually do?
I focus on specific areas.
First of all, posture how wesit, how we stand.
So what I will do is I willhelp people to ground themselves
, so I walk them through thisexercise.
It's almost like a sort ofguided visualization.
It's about rooting yourself tothe ground.
(18:24):
It's about then stretching up,opening the body, because when
we are open, when the body istall, think about like
ballerinas, when you see themjust walk, they're so graceful,
right, and so thinking aboutthis open posture as a voice
coach, having an open posture,the chest is open.
(18:46):
This therefore means that thevoice can shine.
We then look at the breath.
This is the foundation forhaving a good voice.
When we get nervous, as I saidbefore, the pitch of our voice
goes up.
So I walk people throughdiaphragmatic breathing
exercises.
(19:06):
We work on belly breathing, orit's otherwise known as
abdominal breathing, or, ifanybody does yoga there,
pranayama, so we breathe intothe stomach area.
Now what this does is whenwe're getting very nervous and
it's manifesting.
Maybe, I don't know, we'resweating, we're getting a dry
mouth, our voice is starting toshake a little bit.
(19:30):
Moving the breath down into thestomach area, it grounds us.
The other area, then, is welook at the pitch of the voice.
So, again, I give peopleexercises in understanding
keeping the pitch lower.
So I walk them through aprocess of that.
And then the final part, whichis often overlooked, is the
(19:52):
articulation piece.
Because I'm based in Asia, inHong Kong.
I've been there for 31 years.
I'm very blessed to work withmany nationalities, all the way
through from Japan well, evendown from Australia to Japan, to
Korea, southeast Asia, all theway through to the Middle East,
(20:15):
dubai and Saudi Arabia.
Now, everybody if they areinterviewing for an
international company, a globalcompany, linguistic issues as
well.
So again, it's coming back tothe idea of speaking fast.
If they speak very fast, theymaybe trip over words, but the
same can be said for us asnative speakers.
(20:38):
So I walk people through aprocess of articulation.
This is enunciation andpronunciation, and this is
around exercising the tongue,releasing the pressure from down
by the hyoid bone.
This is this area down in ourthroat and this gives us clarity
.
So the toolkit basically wehave the posture, we have the
(21:01):
grounding, we have the breathand then we have the clarity of
speech.
Go through that process, bam,you're ready to go.
John Neral (21:12):
So, david, for anyone who is listening to us
today, I hope they, when theyare safe if they're driving in a
car right now, they're notgoing to do this while they're
driving I hope they bookmarkthese three minutes of this
conversation and they go backand they listen to them before
their next presentation orbefore their next interview,
because what you shared with us,especially so richly rooted in
(21:36):
the science of it all, arethings that I know many people
don't understand, they're notfamiliar with.
They think, oh, I'm justnervous, I just need to get over
that.
With all the people you haveworked with across the globe,
I'm sure you've got a ton ofsuccess stories.
Could you share one with us,though, please?
(21:56):
That would perhaps inspire someof our listeners today.
David Pope (22:00):
Absolutely, I think.
Probably the one that standsout for me most is I was invited
down to Singapore and I wasrunning a workshop.
It was Gravitas, voice andPresence, one of my workshops
for a group, a wonderfulorganization, and it was
(22:20):
specifically focusing on womenreturning back into work.
And so women who professionalwomen, who had had children,
they'd taken time out and theywere coming back into work.
And so women who professionalwomen, who had had children,
they'd taken time out and theywere coming back into the
workforce.
And you know some of the issuesthat come from that.
Again it's the feeling, lessthan it's the imposter syndrome,
(22:40):
it's I've lost my toolkit.
Oh, I will never be good enough.
You know the younger generation, they're much better than me.
So I ran this workshop andsomebody reached out to me
Because I was in Singapore foran extended period.
I then worked with her.
She had an interview coming up,so I worked with her, really
(23:01):
focusing on the confidence piece.
That was the first thing.
But what we actually discoveredwas what she'd done as a sort
of safety net was to write outher questions in very, very long
form, and so when I was reallydoing a mock interview with her,
(23:21):
she was taking so long to getto the point.
I wasn't quite sure what thepoint was.
I was getting lost in all thedetail.
We worked on the content.
We broke it right down becausein terms of an interview,
obviously it's a two-wayconversation.
I feel from my experience, it'sbetter to leave the interviewer
(23:44):
time to ask questions, if theyhave questions.
If you just give them more andmore and more and more,
sometimes it becomes, I don'tknow, like the David show.
It's about showing that you arethere.
If you're going for a job inmanagement, you're, you know,
you're a leader.
You're there to draw outinformation from people, etc.
(24:06):
To draw out information frompeople, etc.
So I worked with her and wereduced the content of what she
was saying, so she was landingher points succinctly and very
clearly.
We then went through a processof I was back in Hong Kong.
We did some online because herinterview was online and this is
(24:26):
very important as well.
We need to understand not onlyhow we sound but how we look in
this online environment as well.
So all of those nuances aroundvoice and presence.
We did mock interviews.
Anyway, I was delighted to findout that she actually got the
job that she'd been going for.
The competition was extremelystrong.
(24:48):
She was returning back into theworkforce and she nailed it, so
that would be my great successstory.
I was so happy and we're stillin touch with each other.
She's been promoted andwhenever she has anything high
stakes she gets in touch with meand we work on her speech, her
presentation, her pitch orwhatever.
So wonderful, wonderful.
John Neral (25:09):
How wonderful is that?
Right, I mean, that's such agreat story and something for
all of us to kind of lean into alittle bit.
That something that a lot ofpeople, in all fairness, may
overlook or think, oh, I canjust figure this out on my own.
They need to tag someone in,like you, to truly help them
(25:33):
level up their voice, theirconfidence, their presence, and
to do it in a way that youshared earlier, that is very
authentic to them, that helpsthem make the connections, that
opens doors.
David Pope (25:47):
Absolutely, absolutely.
The key is authenticity.
I do feel that if something isvery high stakes and this is a
key job that you're going forthen definitely just working
with somebody who can basicallygive you feedback.
Right, it's not feedback aboutoh you were good, oh that was OK
(26:08):
.
No, you need specific targetedfeedback.
Work on this, do this, recordyourself, listen, learn, let's
do it again, repeated, repeatedyeah.
So absolutely, it makes senseto, to, to work with somebody.
John Neral (26:22):
I would say say David, I thank you so much.
You have shared so manywonderful things with us today
and certainly given us a lot toconsider as we start to wrap up
here.
What advice would you givesomeone to help them build their
mid-career GPS to whatever'snext for them in their career?
David Pope (26:43):
Okay.
So for me, voice is linked somuch to self-worth and
confidence.
So the most important thing isto learn to love your voice
because, as we've mentionedbefore, it's about authenticity.
We need to have an authenticvoice way of working on your
(27:08):
voice.
So if you work on your voice,your audience it doesn't matter
interviewer, or if you're inthat job and you're starting to
speak to groups of people youraudience will respond to you
more positively.
When you lap up that sort ofpositive impact in the room in
front of lots of people, thenyou feel more energized and more
confident and, as a result, youspeak with more confidence and
the audience respond energizedand more confident and, as a
result, you speak with moreconfidence and the audience
(27:30):
respond to you more positively.
So it's very much a cycle, avirtuous circle.
So my really the most importantthing I would say keeping
coming back to this thingrecording your voice,
understanding the nuances but dothe work before you walk into
(27:51):
that interview room, make sureyou've ironed out some of these
little things because, as I said, we all make judgments about
people based on the sound of thevoice and if you've got an
interview, you've got lots ofthings that you're working for
right.
You've got to make sure thatyou sound good, that you look
good, that you come across well,that your content is good.
(28:14):
So nail that part, and then therest can start flowing.
John Neral (28:20):
That's wonderful.
Thank you so very, very much,David.
If people want to find you,connect with you, learn more
about you, I'm going to turn themicrophone over to you.
Please share with us all thegreat places where people can
find you.
David Pope (28:32):
Wonderful, okay.
So if they can find me on mywebsite, which is called
allvoicetalentcomallvoicetalentcom, that's one
word and actually on the website, they will find there's a free
resource which is a toolkit, andthat tip sheet toolkit this is
(28:52):
something where I've beenworking with people, as I said,
for many, many years, workingwith thousands of people
actually recording their voiceand playing it back and
analysing.
Now, these are really the top,top things that I've come across
.
These are the key issues.
So if they're wanting to getthat, they can find that on the
(29:13):
website.
There's also actually a toolkitas well, a presentation skills
toolkit which is there.
And finally, linkedin.
I think all of us are all onLinkedIn.
You can find me, pope voicecoach, and I'm probably the only
one, I think, in Hong Kong.
And if you do link to me in uhin on LinkedIn, please mention
(29:35):
that you heard me on John'spodcast.
That would be lovely for me toknow, okay.
John Neral (29:40):
Please do so, David.
Thank you so very much forsharing your expertise and your
insights and your tips with us.
This was absolutely incredible.
Thank you so much for being awonderful guest on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast.
David Pope (29:53):
My absolute pleasure .
John, Thank you so much forhaving me.
John Neral (29:57):
All right, my friends, as we wrap up here, I'm
going to keep this really shortwith you today, because David
dropped so many wonderful things.
It's this Be authentic.
How many times on this podcastwith almost, I think we're going
to be at over 300 episodes bythe time this episode drops how
many times have we talked abouthow you show up matters?
(30:18):
Well, I'm going to add one ofDavid's words in today how you
show up authentically matters.
No one can do what you do andyou need to be the best person
out there telling your storyfrom that place of value and
service.
So, until next time, rememberthis you will build your
mid-career GPS one mile or onestep at a time, and how you show
(30:42):
up authentically matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday authentically matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday about how I can help you
(31:03):
build your mid-career GPS or howI can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
(31:24):
Thank you.
One of the biggest fears we have as human beings is
speaking in public.
Now I'm not just talking aboutgetting up on a stage and
delivering a presentation.
I'm talking about even speakingup at a meeting.
What would it look like for youto have more confidence when
speaking?
Would you like to have agreater presence when you're
(00:23):
speaking or delivering thatpresentation?
And have you ever said toyourself I don't like the sound
of my own voice?
I have.
If you've answered yes to anyof these questions, my guest
today will help you calm yournerves, speak more confidently
and have more people wanting tohear what you have to say.
(00:45):
Today, you will meet BBCtrained executive voice coach,
david Pope.
David joins me to help youimprove your voice so you can
advance your career.
Let's get started.
(01:09):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
love, or love the one they have,using my proven four-step
formula.
If you've ever wanted toimprove your public speaking
skills or speak more confidentlywhen presenting at meetings,
David Pope is here to help you.
(01:30):
Starting at the BBC, David hassince worked as an audio
producer, studio director andnow as an executive voice coach
Through the company he founded,all Voice Talented Limited.
He brings 30 years ofexperience in recording studios
to the thousands of businessprofessionals he has worked with
globally, from managingpartners, lawyers and CEOs to
(01:54):
business executives and TEDxspeakers.
His one-on-one coachingsessions, workshops and online
video courses focus ontransforming voices, helping
good speakers become greatspeakers.
Let's get into it.
I hope you enjoy myconversation with David Pope.
David Pope, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:16):
It is great to have you heretoday.
David Pope (02:19):
Thank you so much, John.
I'm absolutely delighted to behere Thrilled.
John Neral (02:23):
I am as well.
I am looking forward to ourconversation today, but, david,
before we get started, you'vegot a couple of mid-career
moments that I'd love for you toshare with the listeners, just
so they can get to know you alittle bit more.
David Pope (02:37):
Absolutely Okay.
Let me share the two thingsthat have really shaped where
I'm at right now.
So the first one was I spentmany, many years in recording
studios as an audio producer anda studio director.
About 15 years ago, becausepeople had heard the work that
I've been doing with helpingprofessional voiceover talent to
(03:01):
be able to use their best voiceto sell a product.
Now what happened was peoplestarted emailing me saying
things like I've been hearingabout you, I work in corporate
communications, I'm in banking,I'm in legal, I have to have
interviews, my boss has told methat I need to speak with more
(03:23):
authority, feel less than I'vegot imposter syndrome.
I hate giving presentations.
Is this something that you canhelp me with?
So I realized of course I can,because I spent many, many years
working with people to givetheir best voice, and so what I
did was I created a series ofcoaching programs empowering
(03:46):
people to be able to use theirvoice more effectively in the
workplace.
So that was my first careermoment, because, basically, I
shifted into this whole area ofbeing an executive voice.
My second one came, and Ispecifically February 2020.
And this was because I wasasked to work down in Singapore.
(04:11):
I was down there for one week.
My diary was full.
I was giving workshops, I wasdoing one-on-one voice coaching,
and COVID started.
Bit by bit by bit, all of thejobs that I've been hired for
started getting cancelled.
So there I was.
I was in this hotel room.
(04:32):
I couldn't get a flight back toHong Kong where I'm based, and
I could go two ways.
The first way was to have apity party and sit there and
think, oh, my goodness, woe isme, or I could actually use the
time effectively.
So I got onto the one thingthat I've been wanting to do for
a long time, which was tocreate online video courses, and
(04:58):
when I got back to Hong Kong, Icreated these, and to date,
these online video courses havebeen bought by global companies,
by law firms, by people fromall around the world.
So you know, sometimes out ofthese situations a challenge and
then you see an opportunity.
So really, those were my twobig career changes career
(05:25):
changes.
John Neral (05:26):
Well, and they are big, and I love how you walked
us through those, especiallybecause, through circumstances
out of no control of our own,such as COVID and the pandemic,
you certainly found a way topivot and reach more people.
That's why you're here today,right?
So when we think about theperson who is mid-level,
mid-career and they have beengiven some kind of feedback from
(05:49):
somebody a supervisor, a leader, an executive and they're told
you need to speak moreconfidently and that's all they
tell them, so they're left tointerpret what that actually
looks like, when you're helpingpeople be a great speaker and
(06:10):
use their best voice, what doesspeaking confidently sound like
and look like to?
David Pope (06:17):
you.
Whether we like it or not, wemake judgments about people
based on the sound of the voice,and whilst we're making
judgments about other people,people are making judgments
about us.
For me, what I always talkabout with clients is this idea
(06:43):
first of all, authenticity.
This is absolutely important.
So we can speak confidently,but we need to be authentic.
I work with people focusing onthis core element, which is
about gravitas.
Now, a lot of people think thatgravitas is just about this
strong, deep, authoritativevoice.
Absolutely not.
Gravitas is about two things.
(07:03):
It's about integrating passionfor the thing that you're
talking about.
So, if you're in an interviewcoming across passionately,
enthusiastically, engaging, butalso keeping it grounded in this
sense of authority.
So, for me, speakingconfidently is about a balance.
(07:24):
It's about having authority inthe voice but also having energy
, so having warmth, beinginspiring and being engaging.
Now people might think, wow,that's a lot of stuff I've got
to think about, but if you areauthentic and if you are fully
aware of how you sound, then youcan really start putting the
(07:48):
work in.
John Neral (07:50):
Do you recommend that people listen to themselves
when they're speaking, like sothey're listening to a recording
and they're hearing it, andthen when somebody says, oh, I
hate the way my voice sounds,how do you coach them through
that?
David Pope (08:08):
Right, okay, well, most people I work with, it
doesn't matter what level theyare, if they're C-suite and
they're down to junior executivemost people I work with.
My whole process is aboutrecording the voice, playing it
back and analyzing Nearly everysingle person that I work with.
When they hear their voice,they do exactly that.
(08:29):
John, oh, my goodness, I hatethe sound of my voice, but this
is about the science, you see,because the voice that we hear
is not the voice that otherpeople hear.
Voices are like sound waves.
So when somebody speaks, thesound comes through our ears
sorry, comes through into yourears.
Right?
You're hearing me on thispodcast.
(08:50):
When we speak, the sound comesinto our ears, but we feel the
vibration that comes up throughour stomach area, our chest,
into our head.
This is what we call ourresonance chamber.
So we sometimes think thatwe're deeper and more resonant
than we actually are, and then,when we hear ourselves on a
(09:12):
recording, we always get alittle bit of a surprise Our
voice is a bit weaker, a littlebit tinnier.
Now, the process of recordingyour voice and understanding
exactly how you sound.
This is the best way to be ableto change, because people
(09:33):
usually don't like this.
They shy away from this process.
So, for example, you know, inthe interview preparation stage,
just recording yourself.
Just do it on your phone, don'tneed fancy equipment.
Record yourself, play it backand you will pick up on some of
these things I mentioned aboutmaking judgments.
(09:54):
So it might be I speak too fast, my pitch is too high,
everything that I'm saying I'mgoing, uh, um, all of these
things.
If you get all of thisinformation before you step into
that interview room, before yousit on a panel interview,
you've done a lot of the work.
John Neral (10:15):
Hey there.
Have you ever been hesitant tolike a LinkedIn post about
finding a new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
A new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
Since you're already listeningto this podcast, I want to help
you get an even bigger win inyour career and to do that, I'm
inviting you to join my freeemail community and subscribe to
(10:40):
the Mid-Career GPS newsletter.
It's delivered to your inboxtwice each week with helpful
tips, strategies and resourcesto help you find that job you
love, or love the job you have.
It's all free and you cansubscribe by visiting my website
at https://johnneral.
com.
Check the show notes or myLinkedIn.
(11:01):
For now, let's get back to theepisode.
How do you help someone slowdown when they have listened to
their recording and they feel asif they're speaking too quickly
?
Where they've gotten thatfeedback from someone and says I
can't understand what you'resaying because you're talking
way too fast.
Where does that come from?
(11:21):
Saying because you're talkingway too fast?
Where does that come from?
David Pope (11:30):
Okay.
So first of all, the pacingissue.
This is related to thatgravitas as well.
So we're thinking aboutmid-career going up.
If we are wanting to have avoice which potentially has
those leadership qualities, wedo need to slow down, because if
we're moving into, maybe,leading teams, if we are
speaking to large groups ofpeople, we have to slow down.
(11:50):
But what we need to do is weneed to make sure that we're not
speaking at a very, very slowspeed.
A lot of people make thatmistake.
They, they have this connectlike oh, if I speak really
slowly, then I will haveauthority, I will have executive
presence.
Absolutely not.
You'll put people to sleep andthey'll be starting to zone out.
(12:11):
What you need to do is havevocal variety.
Now, vocal variety is where wespeed up, we slow down, we speed
up, we slow down.
You know you and I are doingthis in this podcast, right, and
so this is how you engagepeople.
So, again, coming back to therecording process, some people I
work with they think thatthey're really slow speakers and
(12:35):
then they hear themselves andthey go oh, my goodness, I speak
really fast.
What I actually do is I turn itaround and I say, ok, here's
the thing you are trying toinfluence, you are trying to get
a buy in, you're trying to sellyourself.
You need to first of all slowdown on the key pieces of
information, because if we losethose key pieces, you're going
(12:58):
to lose that impact.
But at the same time you needto have the charisma and this is
about being a fast speaker aswell.
So it's a balance.
And then this comes back toyour question earlier about the
recorded voice.
If you hear your voice and thenyou work at measuring your pace
(13:19):
not too fast, not too slow.
John Neral (13:44):
So, david, I want to stay here for a moment on the
power of pausing and letting aparticular point sink in, to
give those who are listening anopportunity to process and
respond without the job seekeror the job candidate here
(14:07):
feeling like they need tointerject and say something
right away.
Otherwise they're going to befearful that they've
disconnected from theconversation in some way.
David Pope (14:17):
Okay, well, mark Twain.
He once said words areimportant, but no word is as
important as a rightly timedpause important as a rightly
timed pause.
So pausing does two things, asyou've said, just in terms of an
interview, it allows theaudience to understand what
you're saying.
So I like to call it audiopunctuation.
(14:39):
So just like you've got fullstops, commas, new paragraphs,
pausing of different lengthsallows the audience to take in
the information, and pausing canalso help you to control the
conversation.
Now, two things happen when weget nervous.
Well, first of all, peopledon't like those pauses, right?
(15:01):
People feel that they I've gotto say something.
But when we get nervous, twothings happen.
Number one is we speak quicker,so our pace increases.
Number two, the pitch of ourvoice goes down.
Sorry, the pitch of our voicegoes up.
So what we're trying to do is,when we are noticing that the
(15:21):
pitch of the voice is going upand we're speaking fast, this is
when it's a good idea to pause.
So these are the practicalelements, but pausing is also
it's allowing, as you rightlysaid, it's allowing the audience
, the panel, the interviewer tounderstand what you're saying,
because when people speak fast,they tend to potentially sort of
(15:44):
an information dump.
I've got to say this, I've gotto say this, and they feel that
they've got this short space oftime and they've got to squeeze
everything in.
But what they don't understandis just by pausing, as you
suggested, it allows theaudience to take in the key
(16:05):
pieces of information you see,and so when you pause, it allows
for reflection and again, withinterviews, it's very much a
two-way conversation.
So pausing is showing, it'sgiving a cue that it's time for
the dialogue to change, forpeople to start asking questions
, et cetera, having aconversation.
John Neral (16:26):
So, yeah, asking questions, et cetera, having a
conversation.
So yeah, for the person whowill say I'm awful at interviews
because I get too nervous, Istumble over my words, I don't
put coherent sentences together,and while that may be true and
(16:46):
let's acknowledge thatinterviews can be an extremely
nerve-wracking experience forsome it is also the thing they
have to do sufficiently well, ifnot exceptionally well, in
order to get that job offer.
In your expertise, david, youhelp people build a toolkit to
(17:06):
help them speak more confidentlywhen under pressure.
Could you share some of thosecomponents with us today about
what you might put in someone'stoolkit to help them speak more
confidently when under pressure?
David Pope (17:19):
Absolutely Very, very practical stuff.
So, neuroscience when we getnervous, cortisol, cortisol
rages.
This is the amygdala, you know,it's the reptile brain
terrifying.
And what happens is we get intoour head.
And when we get into our head,this is when, potentially,
things start to fall apart.
(17:40):
And so what I do when I'mworking with people, I work them
through a process.
So I've worked with TEDxspeakers, I work with C-suite
level, getting them ready forconferences, speaking in front
of like maybe 2000 people.
It happens to all of us.
We do get nervous, even one onone in an interview.
(18:01):
Okay, so what I will usually do?
I focus on specific areas.
First of all, posture how wesit, how we stand.
So what I will do is I willhelp people to ground themselves
, so I walk them through thisexercise.
It's almost like a sort ofguided visualization.
It's about rooting yourself tothe ground.
(18:24):
It's about then stretching up,opening the body, because when
we are open, when the body istall, think about like
ballerinas, when you see themjust walk, they're so graceful,
right, and so thinking aboutthis open posture as a voice
coach, having an open posture,the chest is open.
(18:46):
This therefore means that thevoice can shine.
We then look at the breath.
This is the foundation forhaving a good voice.
When we get nervous, as I saidbefore, the pitch of our voice
goes up.
So I walk people throughdiaphragmatic breathing
exercises.
(19:06):
We work on belly breathing, orit's otherwise known as
abdominal breathing, or, ifanybody does yoga there,
pranayama, so we breathe intothe stomach area.
Now what this does is whenwe're getting very nervous and
it's manifesting.
Maybe, I don't know, we'resweating, we're getting a dry
mouth, our voice is starting toshake a little bit.
(19:30):
Moving the breath down into thestomach area, it grounds us.
The other area, then, is welook at the pitch of the voice.
So, again, I give peopleexercises in understanding
keeping the pitch lower.
So I walk them through aprocess of that.
And then the final part, whichis often overlooked, is the
(19:52):
articulation piece.
Because I'm based in Asia, inHong Kong.
I've been there for 31 years.
I'm very blessed to work withmany nationalities, all the way
through from Japan well, evendown from Australia to Japan, to
Korea, southeast Asia, all theway through to the Middle East,
(20:15):
dubai and Saudi Arabia.
Now, everybody if they areinterviewing for an
international company, a globalcompany, linguistic issues as
well.
So again, it's coming back tothe idea of speaking fast.
If they speak very fast, theymaybe trip over words, but the
same can be said for us asnative speakers.
(20:38):
So I walk people through aprocess of articulation.
This is enunciation andpronunciation, and this is
around exercising the tongue,releasing the pressure from down
by the hyoid bone.
This is this area down in ourthroat and this gives us clarity
.
So the toolkit basically wehave the posture, we have the
(21:01):
grounding, we have the breathand then we have the clarity of
speech.
Go through that process, bam,you're ready to go.
John Neral (21:12):
So, david, for anyone who is listening to us
today, I hope they, when theyare safe if they're driving in a
car right now, they're notgoing to do this while they're
driving I hope they bookmarkthese three minutes of this
conversation and they go backand they listen to them before
their next presentation orbefore their next interview,
because what you shared with us,especially so richly rooted in
(21:36):
the science of it all, arethings that I know many people
don't understand, they're notfamiliar with.
They think, oh, I'm justnervous, I just need to get over
that.
With all the people you haveworked with across the globe,
I'm sure you've got a ton ofsuccess stories.
Could you share one with us,though, please?
(21:56):
That would perhaps inspire someof our listeners today.
David Pope (22:00):
Absolutely, I think.
Probably the one that standsout for me most is I was invited
down to Singapore and I wasrunning a workshop.
It was Gravitas, voice andPresence, one of my workshops
for a group, a wonderfulorganization, and it was
(22:20):
specifically focusing on womenreturning back into work.
And so women who professionalwomen, who had had children,
they'd taken time out and theywere coming back into work.
And so women who professionalwomen, who had had children,
they'd taken time out and theywere coming back into the
workforce.
And you know some of the issuesthat come from that.
Again it's the feeling, lessthan it's the imposter syndrome,
(22:40):
it's I've lost my toolkit.
Oh, I will never be good enough.
You know the younger generation, they're much better than me.
So I ran this workshop andsomebody reached out to me
Because I was in Singapore foran extended period.
I then worked with her.
She had an interview coming up,so I worked with her, really
(23:01):
focusing on the confidence piece.
That was the first thing.
But what we actually discoveredwas what she'd done as a sort
of safety net was to write outher questions in very, very long
form, and so when I was reallydoing a mock interview with her,
(23:21):
she was taking so long to getto the point.
I wasn't quite sure what thepoint was.
I was getting lost in all thedetail.
We worked on the content.
We broke it right down becausein terms of an interview,
obviously it's a two-wayconversation.
I feel from my experience, it'sbetter to leave the interviewer
(23:44):
time to ask questions, if theyhave questions.
If you just give them more andmore and more and more,
sometimes it becomes, I don'tknow, like the David show.
It's about showing that you arethere.
If you're going for a job inmanagement, you're, you know,
you're a leader.
You're there to draw outinformation from people, etc.
(24:06):
To draw out information frompeople, etc.
So I worked with her and wereduced the content of what she
was saying, so she was landingher points succinctly and very
clearly.
We then went through a processof I was back in Hong Kong.
We did some online because herinterview was online and this is
(24:26):
very important as well.
We need to understand not onlyhow we sound but how we look in
this online environment as well.
So all of those nuances aroundvoice and presence.
We did mock interviews.
Anyway, I was delighted to findout that she actually got the
job that she'd been going for.
The competition was extremelystrong.
(24:48):
She was returning back into theworkforce and she nailed it, so
that would be my great successstory.
I was so happy and we're stillin touch with each other.
She's been promoted andwhenever she has anything high
stakes she gets in touch with meand we work on her speech, her
presentation, her pitch orwhatever.
So wonderful, wonderful.
John Neral (25:09):
How wonderful is that?
Right, I mean, that's such agreat story and something for
all of us to kind of lean into alittle bit.
That something that a lot ofpeople, in all fairness, may
overlook or think, oh, I canjust figure this out on my own.
They need to tag someone in,like you, to truly help them
(25:33):
level up their voice, theirconfidence, their presence, and
to do it in a way that youshared earlier, that is very
authentic to them, that helpsthem make the connections, that
opens doors.
David Pope (25:47):
Absolutely, absolutely.
The key is authenticity.
I do feel that if something isvery high stakes and this is a
key job that you're going forthen definitely just working
with somebody who can basicallygive you feedback.
Right, it's not feedback aboutoh you were good, oh that was OK
(26:08):
.
No, you need specific targetedfeedback.
Work on this, do this, recordyourself, listen, learn, let's
do it again, repeated, repeatedyeah.
So absolutely, it makes senseto, to, to work with somebody.
John Neral (26:22):
I would say say David, I thank you so much.
You have shared so manywonderful things with us today
and certainly given us a lot toconsider as we start to wrap up
here.
What advice would you givesomeone to help them build their
mid-career GPS to whatever'snext for them in their career?
David Pope (26:43):
Okay.
So for me, voice is linked somuch to self-worth and
confidence.
So the most important thing isto learn to love your voice
because, as we've mentionedbefore, it's about authenticity.
We need to have an authenticvoice way of working on your
(27:08):
voice.
So if you work on your voice,your audience it doesn't matter
interviewer, or if you're inthat job and you're starting to
speak to groups of people youraudience will respond to you
more positively.
When you lap up that sort ofpositive impact in the room in
front of lots of people, thenyou feel more energized and more
confident and, as a result, youspeak with more confidence and
the audience respond energizedand more confident and, as a
result, you speak with moreconfidence and the audience
(27:30):
respond to you more positively.
So it's very much a cycle, avirtuous circle.
So my really the most importantthing I would say keeping
coming back to this thingrecording your voice,
understanding the nuances but dothe work before you walk into
(27:51):
that interview room, make sureyou've ironed out some of these
little things because, as I said, we all make judgments about
people based on the sound of thevoice and if you've got an
interview, you've got lots ofthings that you're working for
right.
You've got to make sure thatyou sound good, that you look
good, that you come across well,that your content is good.
(28:14):
So nail that part, and then therest can start flowing.
John Neral (28:20):
That's wonderful.
Thank you so very, very much,David.
If people want to find you,connect with you, learn more
about you, I'm going to turn themicrophone over to you.
Please share with us all thegreat places where people can
find you.
David Pope (28:32):
Wonderful, okay.
So if they can find me on mywebsite, which is called
allvoicetalentcomallvoicetalentcom, that's one
word and actually on the website, they will find there's a free
resource which is a toolkit, andthat tip sheet toolkit this is
(28:52):
something where I've beenworking with people, as I said,
for many, many years, workingwith thousands of people
actually recording their voiceand playing it back and
analysing.
Now, these are really the top,top things that I've come across
.
These are the key issues.
So if they're wanting to getthat, they can find that on the
(29:13):
website.
There's also actually a toolkitas well, a presentation skills
toolkit which is there.
And finally, linkedin.
I think all of us are all onLinkedIn.
You can find me, pope voicecoach, and I'm probably the only
one, I think, in Hong Kong.
And if you do link to me in uhin on LinkedIn, please mention
(29:35):
that you heard me on John'spodcast.
That would be lovely for me toknow, okay.
John Neral (29:40):
Please do so, David.
Thank you so very much forsharing your expertise and your
insights and your tips with us.
This was absolutely incredible.
Thank you so much for being awonderful guest on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast.
David Pope (29:53):
My absolute pleasure .
John, Thank you so much forhaving me.
John Neral (29:57):
All right, my friends, as we wrap up here, I'm
going to keep this really shortwith you today, because David
dropped so many wonderful things.
It's this Be authentic.
How many times on this podcastwith almost, I think we're going
to be at over 300 episodes bythe time this episode drops how
many times have we talked abouthow you show up matters?
(30:18):
Well, I'm going to add one ofDavid's words in today how you
show up authentically matters.
No one can do what you do andyou need to be the best person
out there telling your storyfrom that place of value and
service.
So, until next time, rememberthis you will build your
mid-career GPS one mile or onestep at a time, and how you show
(30:42):
up authentically matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday authentically matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday about how I can help you
(31:03):
build your mid-career GPS or howI can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
(31:24):
Thank you.
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