September 9, 2025 • 38 mins
Why do some highly qualified candidates land the job while others get passed over?
The answer often lies in how well they tell their career story.
In this episode of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, Career Transition Coach and Forbes Coaches Council member Gina Riley, joins me to share insider strategies from her experience at Intel and as an executive search consultant. She explains how mid-career professionals can stand out in today’s competitive job market by documenting accomplishments, creating compelling stories, and positioning themselves as the solution to an employer’s biggest challenges.
You’ll discover:
- How to build your Career Data Vault so you can confidently communicate your value.
- Why recruiters read resumes in an “F” pattern and what that means for how you present your experience.
- The crucial difference between mentorship and sponsorship—and why you need both.
- Ways to quantify achievements in support roles to prove business impact.
- How to align your interview stories with the problems hiring managers are trying to solve.
- Why developing a personal board of directors helps guide smart career decisions.
Whether you’re frustrated with your job search or looking to move up in your career, this conversation will help you craft stories that resonate with hiring managers and position you as a must-hire candidate.
Connect with Gina on LinkedIn | Get Gina's New Book on Amazon.
Ready to give your career the jumpstart it needs to whatever is next? Schedule a $197 Career/Leadership Strategy Session. Click here to learn more about how this transformative strategy session will help you.
Visit https://johnneral.com/resources to:
- Subscribe to my free leadership and career newsletter
- Get The Mid-Career Promotion Blueprint to help you figure out whatever is next for you and your career
- Join The Mid-Career GPS Membership Community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Last week, you heard from one of my former clients,
Chris Bond, who shared hisexperiences about finding a job
in this challenging job market.
Today, you're going to hearfrom someone on the hiring side
about what's working and what'snot in this job market.
In a few moments, you will meetCareer Transition Coach and
(00:22):
Forbes Coaches Council member,gina Riley.
Gina is here to share how youcan get noticed by more
recruiters and hiring managers,why you should stop thinking
your work will speak for itselfand why you should position
yourself as the rare candidate.
Let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS podcast and I'm
(00:56):
your host, john Nerrell.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
love, or love the one they have,using my proven four-step
formula.
There are things we can doright or wrong in any job search
, and if you are frustrated thatyou're not getting the I've
got a free guide and videotraining called Why Your
Mid-Career Job Search Isn'tWorking and What to Do About It.
you want, my question to you isthis what do you want to do
(01:18):
differently?
Here's where I can help.
In this guide and training,you will learn some of the
biggest mistakes I seemid-career professionals making
in this job market and how tostop doing them.
(01:38):
Now.
To get this free guide andtraining, you can check the show
notes https://johnneral.
com/resources or visit towebsite to get it.
Today, Gina Riley istransforming how people approach
job search and careertransitions.
With nearly a decade ofexperience in corporate HR at
(01:58):
Intel and as an executive searchconsultant for Talents Group,
she has led searches for CEOs,coos and CFOs across various
industries, trained hundreds intalent selection and gained
unique insight in how to standout in competitive leadership
searches.
She developed the CareerVelocity Framework, an
(02:21):
action-oriented system helpingexecutives navigate successful
transitions.
A two-time Disrupt HR speakerand recognized thought leader,
gina holds a master's degree andis a certified UMAP coach and
expert in behavioral interviewskills.
Her expertise spans networkingstrategy, leadership development
(02:42):
and executive presencenetworking strategy, leadership
development and Today, September9th, Gina released her first
book.
executive presence.
And you know what's reallywonderful.
Her first book is calledQualified Isn't Enough.
Develop your Story, land theInterview, win the Job.
In it, Gina shares hercomprehensive understanding of
(03:05):
both sides of executive hiring,so let's get into it.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Gina Riley.
Gina, welcome to the podcast.
It is great to have you heretoday.
Gina Riley (03:19):
I am beyond excited to talk with you, John.
John Neral (03:22):
I am too.
We've had a couple ofconversations leading up to
today's interview and I'm soexcited to dig into this idea
about how mid-careerprofessionals can tell their
story better and moreeffectively.
But before we get there, Iactually want to get into your
story a little bit.
What was your mid-career moment?
Gina Riley (03:44):
Ah, I had a very specific mid-career moment.
It was slightly early-ish, butyou know who's counting years.
I was working at Intel and Ihad risen up through staffing
and recruiting, and what Ireally wanted to do was
ultimately land in training anddevelopment.
I wanted to develop trainingprograms and be in front of the
room and train people.
Training and development Iwanted to develop training
(04:04):
programs and be in front of theroom and train people, but part
of the gateway to get there, inmy mind's eye, was to grow my
expertise in HR.
So I wanted to be an HR businesspartner, and at that time Intel
was requiring a master's degreeand I did not have it.
And so, as I sought outmentorship and talked to people
that I admired in the variousroles that I wanted to be in,
(04:24):
all of them said this is therequirement we can't sponsor you
until you have this credential.
And so it took me a couple ofyears and, hitting my head
against the wall, thinking themagic would happen, I would get
plucked up into the job I wanted.
It didn't happen, john.
So ultimately, for thissituation, I went back and I got
(04:45):
my master's degree.
It was in whole systems designand it specifically set me up to
be a consultant and sit at theright elbow of one of our up and
coming VPs.
I got assigned to this coolgroup it was the server group
and had this kind of hotshotteam of people growing a
business inside of Intel and hadthis kind of hotshot team of
(05:06):
people growing a business insideof Intel and what it took for
me was to listen to good adviceand then have sponsorship to
then get the job.
Tell us a little more what youmean by sponsorship.
Yes, sponsorship are people whospeak your name when you're not
(05:29):
in the room.
It's different than a mentor.
So I had mentors who offered meadvice and support as I
navigated my early career atIntel.
However, it took a couple ofthose people that were also
sponsors, who gave me their sageadvice, who nominated me, put
(05:50):
me up in front of decisionmakers who are making those
final hiring decisions on howthey were moving the chess
pieces within the staffing board, and that you need to have
people who maybe aren't evenmentors but they're willing to
talk about you when you're notthere.
John Neral (06:09):
So obviously a company like Intel.
We're talking very largecompany and for listeners who
may not be familiar with theidea of a sponsor or are maybe
confusing the role between amentor and a sponsor, gina, if
someone's working for, say, asmaller or medium-sized company,
is sponsorship opportunitiesstill available to them?
Gina Riley (06:34):
Yes, I have a really cool example, john.
I interviewed a woman namedAngela Shaw.
Angela Shaw is an HR leader,and it's for a series that I
wrote called how your NextExecutive Role Finds you, but
this applies to all people, notjust executives.
Her career transitionstrategies played out in such a
(06:56):
way where she really wasn'tusing job boards to apply for
jobs.
She was a volunteer leader andshe sought out volunteer
leadership opportunities withinher professional community In
this case, it was SHRM in Texasand so she would volunteer for
different kinds of roles,ultimately leading the
organization.
But the strategy was spendingher volunteer time showcasing
(07:20):
her knowledge and expertise andleadership skills so that when
other leadership roles in HRcame up in other companies, in
the surrounds people werespeaking her name when she was
not in the room and people wouldthen call her hey, angela, I
think I've got an opportunityyou should entertain.
That is a sponsor entertain.
John Neral (07:48):
That is a sponsor.
I love that and it reallydrives home this message,
especially right now in this jobmarket where, when we talk
about mid-career professionals,that you know, yeah, job boards
could potentially find yousomething, but we know it's
tedious and laborious and reallystressful, but it's that idea
about getting yourself out thereand building your brand and
building your network andeverything.
I love how you just you drivethat point home.
(08:12):
So your book Qualified Isn'tEnough that I did talk about in
the introduction has so many.
What I found going through itwas it's so many practical and
tactical tips to help peoplenavigate what that next move is
going to be.
But, gina, I want to spend acouple moments with you talking
(08:34):
about this idea of what you termas a career data vault.
Gina Riley (08:40):
All right Right to chapter four.
I love it, chapter four Exactlyso.
John Neral (08:45):
Give us what that I love it.
Chapter four exactly so.
Give us what that quickdefinition is of a career data
vault.
Gina Riley (08:49):
You got it.
I actually just published anarticle in Forbes Coaches
Council on this exact topic.
So the career data vault andit's so great for the mid-career
professional, john, becausethey haven't gotten so far along
in their career that they can'tgo back and construct the
memories.
So the career Data Vault is arepository of all of your career
wins, going all the way back tothe beginning up to today.
(09:13):
And where do you find the datato inform it?
You go back to all thoseperformance reviews that are in
writing.
And if you don't have those andso many of these people, john,
that are being laid off from theIntels and the Nikes and the
Googles and the Metas, some ofthem only have one or two years'
worth of stuff.
They haven't saved it or theygot locked out of their accounts
.
They don't have access and theydon't have the memories of the
(09:35):
details, and those details maycome in handy for interview
stories.
That's chapter seven.
So if you don't have yourrepository where you can tickle
your brain and your memory, youmay have less powerful stories
to share, and it erodesconfidence when we can't
(09:56):
remember them.
We're like God I think I didsomething really great, but I
don't remember what it was.
So I actually have people intheir 50s that I'm working with
now who are going back andcalling the colleagues back at
their former company and say canyou help refresh me on the
value I added on that project?
Because I don't remember.
So go back to the beginning andthat chapter exercise tells you
(10:21):
to the micro what it is thatyou're pulling out Quantifiable
results.
What were the obstacles andsituations?
Kind of go back to that SOARidea.
You know what was the situationobstacles, actions and results.
Results we got to have thoseresults for interview stories,
for resume bullet points, forLinkedIn profiles.
John Neral (10:41):
Nice.
So here's where I think ourlisteners are going to want to
really hone in and pay attentionhere, because oftentimes what I
find and I'd love to get yourtake on this as well, especially
around this work is that weknow our story right, we think
(11:02):
we know our story, but then whenwe go to tell it it's very easy
for us to leave out someinformation because we just
figure they're gonna figure thatall out.
And so the micro exercise thatyou have in your book that walks
through this protocol that youhave for building that career
data vault I wanna share withyou this quote that I pulled out
(11:24):
from your book because I'd lovefor you to talk about it on the
other side, specifically forwhat this would mean, especially
in the interview process for amid-career professional, let's
say, who is either workingdirectly with a recruiter or
perhaps with a hiring manager.
Okay, so this comes from yourchapter four, building your
(11:45):
Career Data Vault.
You write, quote Don't make mesearch hard or guess the extent
of your responsibilities andresults.
Many companies aren't widelyrecognized.
Describe your company'sindustry, clientele, revenue and
size up front Spoon.
Feed me this information.
(12:07):
If I need Google for basicinformation, I might move on to
the next candidate.
Gina Riley (12:15):
Yes, and that comes from one of my talents group
teammates, lynette Carney.
I can hear her voice sayingthose words that got wrapped
into the book.
Recruiters are moving fast.
We know that studies show thatit's 7 to 11 seconds for the
first skim.
(12:35):
Does it mean your resume onlygets 7 seconds?
No, what it does mean we needto look at that ladder study
from years ago.
Recruiters are reading yourresume in the shape of an F, as
in Frank.
They go across the top yourname, where are you?
What is your headline, may skimthe summary.
(12:56):
Then sometimes people bunch uptheir skills there next.
I personally do not read those.
I go right to company title andthen what was the size and
scope of the company in relationthen to the role you had in the
size and scope of your span ofcontrol?
If you will, that tells me I'mon the right resume to keep
(13:17):
going or not.
And the missed opportunity arethose quick hit details,
quantifiable details.
You know I work for this.
You know multi-site globalconglomerate.
And then where I sit in theecosystem is here and this is my
budget or my team size orwhatever that is.
If I have to go to Google, butI have 800 more resumes.
(13:39):
I need to skim.
I might put you in the B bucket.
Maybe I'll come back, maybe Iwon't.
John Neral (13:46):
Yeah, I think that's so important for people to hear
, because and I love the idea oflooking at the resume in that
shape of an F I had never heardit that way before, which I
really appreciate.
But, especially when workingwith recruiters, I tell my
clients all the time it is yourjob to make their recruiting job
as easy as possible.
(14:07):
Don't make them fish forinformation.
Attach your resume back withthe job posting to every email
you send so they don't have togo and find it and look for it.
Right, like, be a really goodfriend to them because they'll
help you out if it's the rightfit in that regard.
Gina Riley (14:26):
I love that, yeah.
John Neral (14:30):
So here's what I'm really curious about, though
when we have a mid-careerprofessional who is maybe they
don't have the data points, theydon't have the metrics because
the work that they've done hasmaybe been more around culture
(14:50):
or soft skills or thoseleadership skills that may not
be as easily quantifiable andthey come up and they go well,
what's your tangible results?
And they sit there and go.
Everything I did was part of alarger team and I don't really
have data points, but here'swhat I did and here's how my job
description played out, andthey get lost.
(15:12):
They get lost in this jobsearch process and they are not
seen by the people who need tobe seeing and advocating for
them in terms of their, theirhiring or their candidacy.
What do you tell people in thosesituations?
Gina Riley (15:25):
Oh, my goodness, I was just quickly trying to find
an article I wrote also forForbes Coaches Council.
I wrote an article on the sixdifferent things that
consultants may want to use inorder to help quantify their
impact.
Because if you think of supportroles as consulting roles, even
if you're an early careerperson in HR, IT, finance, think
(15:48):
of all the support roles thatmay not have some kind of
quantifi, even if you can't takecredit for the whole enchilada,
right.
(16:08):
So if what you did supported afunction, a group, a business
that ultimately sold gazillionsof widgets back into what it was
, that you did, that helpedsupport and enabled great work
to get done.
So, like I said, I was tryingto like quickly find it because
(16:31):
I've got the six things listed,but what you want to do is think
of it this way by what degreeup or down, increase or decrease
of something did you impact?
Did you help decrease?
You know the call center callscoming in because you did
something that enabled you knowthe whole system to work better.
(16:54):
It sounds like something youcan't quantify, but decreasing
the number of calls coming intoa call center saves time and
money.
John Neral (17:02):
Absolutely.
Gina Riley (17:03):
It also impacts NPS scores net promoter scores,
meaning satisfaction fromcustomers.
So we need to get creative andthink about it.
But we all have some kind ofimpact, even if it isn't.
I owned the $2 million revenuethat got sold to blah, blah,
blah.
John Neral (17:22):
Right, absolutely, and I think for people who are
in those types of roles, thechallenge then for them becomes
knowing what they have ownershipof, or what they owned in that
regard that they can talk abouthere's where my impact was, or
here what was quantifiable aboutit and to be very careful in
(17:44):
the words they use when theytell their story, that those
words are indicative ofconfidence and competence, as
opposed to this may sound likeI'm just making this up to make
myself look a little bit better.
Gina Riley (18:00):
Absolutely, absolutely.
These are all another trickthat you may want to employ if
you're a mid-career professionalstruggling to find those
quantifiables.
One is go talk to the peoplethat you worked for.
The people that you worked forare the ones that gave you your
review and were the ones thatwent to bat during promotional
(18:22):
season promotion season whereyou got your raises, maybe a
promotion.
They're the ones that know whatyour value add was, because
that's what they're measuredagainst as well.
So they can say here's whereyou had impact to me in my life
as a manager.
Translate that to like what itmeans for you, more at that
micro level.
So that's one trick you know.
(18:42):
Another trick is to talk topeople that you serve.
So, if you're in HR or ifyou're in IT or whatever it is
that you're doing in theorganization, but you go out to
the people that the work impactsand say, when I do what I do
best, what do you do better?
What's better in your life?
Because of what I provide.
(19:03):
And you know, gosh, if we don'tget some good answers then we
probably should question what itis that we're doing.
John Neral (19:15):
Well, that's why we have those conversations right.
They're especially helpful interms of getting the information
we need, especially when wethink about what's that story we
want to tell in an interview.
Gina Riley (19:28):
Absolutely.
And you know, john, anotherkind of just anecdotal this is
just me but when I moved fromstaffing and recruiting into
another role, before I became anHR business partner, I ran the
intern program for the Oregonsite.
We had the largest site in theworld, I believe.
At the time I hired 500 internsin one year myself.
I made that many offers and Imanaged the programming of it,
(19:50):
which was a lot of fun, but itwas super high stress and it was
really high volume and I wasvery driven to be an achiever in
that role, and so what I wasworking to accomplish were the
conversions.
Intel had to hire a lot ofrecent college graduates and
that costs money to go andrecruit and make those offers
and try to secure people in ahighly competitive market, and
(20:13):
so everything I did was builtaround how am I going to make
sure the best students arecoming in at the GP and minimum
requirements that we're going torequire for the college
graduates that we hire and thenwork in those hiring managers to
make offers at the right timeand sell those students.
So 72% conversion that year,that's massive.
(20:38):
Think how much money I may havesaved us Intel from having to
go and recruit new people andconvince them to come work.
So you can find juice in manythings that you do.
John Neral (20:55):
So absolutely.
And, Gina, what I want to doright now, for a few minutes, is
I'd love for you to put thathiring manager hat on that you
have worn at different times inyour career, because I want the
listeners today to get a senseof what it's like to be on the
other side of the table.
(21:15):
So you, being the person who'sresponsible for hiring talent,
you have those hiring decisionsthat you're going to be making
and a candidate comes in at thatfinal round or next to final
round of the interview.
You've looked at their resume.
They are qualified, competent,it looks like they're going to
(21:37):
be a potential fit.
It's just a matter of betweenthem and whoever else you have
in that very small, small windowat this final round of an
interview.
You go through the questions,you go through the questions,
you go through the interview and, as you're listening to the
candidate respond, we know morethan ever storytelling is so
(21:58):
vital in an interview.
As a hiring manager, what makesa story compelling enough that
keeps you interested in who theyare and what they do in the job
interview.
Gina Riley (22:14):
I have one word to start with Relevancy.
Relevancy If you're telling thewrong stories that don't apply
to the hairiest problems thatteam is trying to solve, that
don't apply to the hairiestproblems that team is trying to
solve.
What is keeping that hiringmanager up at night and if they
hire you, they pay you a goodsalary to be the solution to
(22:35):
their business problems then youbetter be speaking their
language.
You need to have done their so.
In chapter seven I talk aboutbeing the rare candidate, which
is research.
Align your stories, read theroom and evaluate the
opportunity.
If you do awesome research onall the people that you
(22:58):
interview with the company,their challenges, what's in the
news, what are they trying toaccomplish Then you align your
interview stories.
I like the sore method that canbe debated at some other time
and then working to build up thestories that then tie to what
these people are trying toaccomplish, and that's the
(23:19):
reading the room part, bodylanguage, how they're responding
to you, checking in and makingsure the interview is a
conversation and not a one-waydrill sergeant session.
You're there to make anevaluation as well, so the
stories must align and berelevant.
John Neral (23:37):
That's so good and I hope people will hit the back
button a couple of times just togo back and hear that answer,
because the idea about listeningintuitively and diagnostically,
as you say, reading the roombut to have that kind of
relevance in terms of thestories you're choosing, is so
vital.
But what I also envision hereis that when a job candidate
(24:02):
does that, how much do youbelieve it takes the neediness
or the desperation out of theirtone when they're telling their
story, when they're in thatfinal round of an interview.
Gina Riley (24:23):
Yes, when you show up really understanding what
those business challenges are,with aligned stories and your
UVP, that's chapters one throughfive, developing that, now
you're freed up to be curious.
Now you're freed up to asksmart, effective questions that
(24:43):
enable you to have a juicierdeeper conversation, questions
that enable you to have ajuicier deeper conversation.
The candidates that do lesswell I don't know if that's good
grammar the people that end upnot getting the offers are
passive.
They're waiting for thequestions to come their way.
Then they respond and they'rethinking about all of the
frameworks of SOAR and STAR andCAR and they're just hitting the
(25:07):
robotic button.
You can't do that for seniorlevel roles, especially as
you're growing up and trying toget promotions in your career.
You need to have intuition.
You need to navigate thechallenges and show that you
understand challenges backwardsand forwards.
You can't do that if your mindis locked up, worrying about
what you're going to say.
Instead, you already need toknow what you're going to say.
(25:29):
You know your stories.
Now you're curious.
John Neral (25:34):
Yeah, well said Absolutely.
And a shout out to my editor,who often listens to this
podcast.
I'm going to just say Leswellis okay.
He'll tell me otherwise, soshout out to him, i'm't.
I'm going to just say Leswellis okay.
Gina Riley (25:49):
He'll tell me.
Otherwise I'm not perfect, John.
John Neral (25:58):
I'm not either, but in the moment I think Leswell
absolutely works, because it's.
It's that point that you justmade, though right, that it's
about listening so intently andand being so present in the
moment that you are having aconversation, that it's a
conversation rooted in whetheror not you believe you can
actually help them solve theirproblems.
(26:20):
That, to your point earlier,that hiring manager can actually
get to sleep at night.
Gina Riley (26:25):
Absolutely.
You know it's the same for evenbeing a podcast guest.
Right now.
I'm on your turf right.
I have a lot to say.
I could talk for hours on thistopic, but I have to read the
room.
Which stories do you want totell for your audience to help
solve their problems?
We all show up in service ofwhen we're the guest, so to
(26:48):
speak, and when you're the jobseeker, you're not on the inside
yet you got to earn it.
John Neral (26:55):
So for that job seeker who's getting close
they're getting the final roundinterviews, they feel like
they're doing all of the rightthings, but they're not getting
the job offer what strategies doyou recommend to help them show
up either more impactfully orshow up for their interview a
(27:15):
little bit differently that theycan then evaluate whether or
not what they're doing isactually leading to getting to
that job offer?
Gina Riley (27:24):
It's another question I really love, because
if you're getting into thatnumber two or three spot
repeatedly which in this jobmarket would be phenomenal, to
have all the shots in the ring,so to speak but you're not
getting the offer, it could be anumber of things that have
nothing to do with you.
So let's start with that.
One is they went with aninternal candidate.
Internal candidates are reallytough to beat and sometimes you
(27:45):
don't even know you're upagainst that.
So when my clients went beatout an internal candidate, I
find out later I almost crybecause it's such a big deal.
Okay, or they change the scope,or you know what they wanted
for their target and you weren'tquite it, and that's okay.
I mean that's you know, that'stheir decision, or it could be
(28:08):
something that you're doingrepeatedly that's just not
landing.
One is maybe the stories aren'tas sharp as you think they are,
maybe you are rambling andtalking a little too much, or
maybe it's executive presence.
So executive presence issomething that I've spoken at
conferences about, I've writtenabout it.
There's 17 different elements ofexecutive presence, with three
(28:30):
major categories.
One is how we appear, soappearance, communication and
gravitas the first hurdle thatwe need to get over when we walk
into the virtual or real roomis our appearance.
People are biased and they makea three-second determination
about what they think about youbecause we humans want to
(28:52):
categorize and feel safe in theworld.
So you've got to read the room,wear the right things, show up
in a certain way, right.
Once you get past that, it'scommunication and gravitas.
Gravitas is the most important,so it's how we speak, how we
behave.
So, within the micro of allthese moving parts, you've got
to read the room.
You got to show that you canmake decisions.
(29:14):
You've got to be a greatlistener, you need to be
decisive, so there could besomething in the way that you're
communicating that devaluesyour impact.
John Neral (29:31):
Yeah, and we know how difficult it is for
candidates to get feedbackduring an interview.
So to have that type ofreflection or introspection
around what could I be doing alittle bit differently, or how
could I tell this storydifferently, or maybe it needs
to be a different story.
I think that's the part where,after the interview, job seekers
(29:53):
and candidates can do somereally deep work around where
they might choose to pivot theirstrategy.
Gina Riley (29:59):
Absolutely.
If you don't mind, I have agreat example for the mid-career
professional.
John Neral (30:03):
Please do yeah, absolutely.
And.
Gina Riley (30:06):
I'll say I work with a lot of humble people, men and
women.
Women particularly have achallenging time owning what
they lead and direct becausethey're collaborative and
fearful of not coming across ashumble.
I have worked with people froma variety of cultures also that
just come with the humility.
I was working with a mid-careerprofessional one of the major
(30:29):
big high-tech companies globallyand she was in charge of 20
product developers in technology.
This is a really highlyeducated, great leader.
She started to tell me herinterview stories and what she
would do is she would tell methe situation and she would tell
me some of the obstacles andthen she would beeline it to the
(30:51):
actions and results, or noteven the actions.
She would go right to theresults and because I already
knew her UVP we had workedthrough her storytelling and I
knew that she was probablynavigating cross-functional
teams and influencing certaindecisions before she even got in
the room for a pitch and thentook, as a good leader, took
(31:12):
product developers in with herin front of 12 VPs to get
funding for the projects skippedover all the cross-functional
influencing, skipped over howshe elevated her people and
brought them in the room roomand skipped over what she had to
do to get the funding for thoseprojects that ended up making
that company gobs of money.
(31:35):
And so when I dialed it back andsaid, how hard was it to do
that job?
Didn't you do this, Didn't youdo this, and so on, she sat back
and took a big breath and wentoh my gosh, you're right, I
skipped over all the things thatmake me a good leader.
If you gloss over the juice, noone's going to guess it.
(31:57):
No one would have guessed whatshe did.
Right, I just happened to knowit because I had teased it all
out and I knew who she was.
John Neral (32:05):
Well, that's why our work is so important, right?
That's why what we get to do ascareer coaches and consultants
and trainers and speakers andauthors, that's where we get to
help draw those things out forpeople.
So I love that story.
Thank you for sharing that.
Well, Gina, we are almost attime.
It is amazing how time justflew by and everything you
(32:25):
shared so much, and I know youhave so much more to say.
So I wanna give you the mic fora couple of moments and as we
wrap this interview up, I alwaysask my guests to share what
advice they would give thelisteners to help them build
their mid-career GPS that thingthat's gonna take them from
where they are to where theywanna be.
So if there was something youhaven't shared yet today to help
(32:49):
someone build that next step intheir career trajectory, what
would you tell them?
Gina Riley (32:55):
Okay, I've got concentric circles that overlap,
as per usual.
One develop your unique valueproposition and keep it with you
for your career.
It may change.
Some of your strengths andvalues may change over time what
you lean into, the career pridepoints are going to change.
(33:15):
But you need to understand yourcareer thread, what the themes
and patterns of your career are,so that every time you network
and every time you interview youcan answer tell me about
yourself, which is not anelevator pitch, it's a three to
five minutes highlights reelthat help people understand
where you fit in the ecosystem.
If you're not clear, no one elsewill be clear and you won't be
(33:37):
able to make asks and getreferrals.
That's one.
Two build a healthy network andmaintain it throughout your
career.
That would be the other thing.
And then the third thing Iwould say is make sure that you
build up what I call a PBODpersonal board of directors or
advisory team of mentors of avariety of skill sets and
(34:02):
backgrounds so that you getinformation from different kinds
of people.
Maybe someone on that team hasfinance background, another's HR
background.
One is a program manager.
I don't know People you admirethat you trust that can give you
advice throughout your careerto help you navigate and use
your GPS appropriately.
John Neral (34:21):
Yeah, so good, so good.
Thank you so very much.
Well, today is September 9thand as we go to wrap up here, I
want you to share all of thegreat things where people can
connect and follow you, andperhaps maybe share a little bit
(34:41):
why September 9th, once again,is such a big day for you.
Gina Riley (34:46):
Oh, my goodness, I am a new published author.
September 9th is when QualifiedIsn't Enough Hits the newsstand
, so to speak, and I could notbe more excited to help people
develop their story so that theycan tell better stories.
Land interviews win the job, soI'm excited to bird this into
the world.
People can find me atGinaRileyConsulting.
(35:06):
com and I'm on LinkedIn,probably as you, John.
Every day I'm there, I post,and I have almost 24 articles on
the Forbes Coaches Council onthat website as well, to help
job seekers.
That's what I do.
I spend all my time buildingcontent to help job seekers
navigate to their next bestthing.
John Neral (35:27):
Wonderful, gina.
I am so glad we connected.
Gina Riley, thank you for beingsuch an amazing guest on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast.
Thank you.
All right, my friends, here'smy one takeaway.
I've got a lot of takeaways frommy conversation with Gina today
, but here's one.
Where are you relevant?
What's your relevance whenyou're thinking about the
(35:47):
stories you want to tell, whenyou're networking or
interviewing, you're sitting atyour job and talking to your
supervisor and considering anopportunity for a promotion, or
you just want more visibility ona particular project?
Where are you being relevant?
What is your relevance actuallydoing to make the case that you
are the best fit and the bestperson to take on this
(36:12):
responsibility or this role orget this promotion?
Gina talked so much about howhaving a relevant story and
reading the room is integral toyour career success.
So if you want to put somethingelse into your GPS toolkit right
now, what I want to offer youtoday is lean into Gina's
(36:32):
comments about relevance and dosome work around.
Where are you the most relevantin your career, your industry
and your organization right now?
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
(36:54):
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
(37:15):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
Last week, you heard from one of my former clients,
Chris Bond, who shared hisexperiences about finding a job
in this challenging job market.
Today, you're going to hearfrom someone on the hiring side
about what's working and what'snot in this job market.
In a few moments, you will meetCareer Transition Coach and
(00:22):
Forbes Coaches Council member,gina Riley.
Gina is here to share how youcan get noticed by more
recruiters and hiring managers,why you should stop thinking
your work will speak for itselfand why you should position
yourself as the rare candidate.
Let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS podcast and I'm
(00:56):
your host, john Nerrell.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they
love, or love the one they have,using my proven four-step
formula.
There are things we can doright or wrong in any job search
, and if you are frustrated thatyou're not getting the I've
got a free guide and videotraining called Why Your
Mid-Career Job Search Isn'tWorking and What to Do About It.
you want, my question to you isthis what do you want to do
(01:18):
differently?
Here's where I can help.
In this guide and training,you will learn some of the
biggest mistakes I seemid-career professionals making
in this job market and how tostop doing them.
(01:38):
Now.
To get this free guide andtraining, you can check the show
notes https://johnneral.
com/resources or visit towebsite to get it.
Today, Gina Riley istransforming how people approach
job search and careertransitions.
With nearly a decade ofexperience in corporate HR at
(01:58):
Intel and as an executive searchconsultant for Talents Group,
she has led searches for CEOs,coos and CFOs across various
industries, trained hundreds intalent selection and gained
unique insight in how to standout in competitive leadership
searches.
She developed the CareerVelocity Framework, an
(02:21):
action-oriented system helpingexecutives navigate successful
transitions.
A two-time Disrupt HR speakerand recognized thought leader,
gina holds a master's degree andis a certified UMAP coach and
expert in behavioral interviewskills.
Her expertise spans networkingstrategy, leadership development
(02:42):
and executive presencenetworking strategy, leadership
development and Today, September9th, Gina released her first
book.
executive presence.
And you know what's reallywonderful.
Her first book is calledQualified Isn't Enough.
Develop your Story, land theInterview, win the Job.
In it, Gina shares hercomprehensive understanding of
(03:05):
both sides of executive hiring,so let's get into it.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Gina Riley.
Gina, welcome to the podcast.
It is great to have you heretoday.
Gina Riley (03:19):
I am beyond excited to talk with you, John.
John Neral (03:22):
I am too.
We've had a couple ofconversations leading up to
today's interview and I'm soexcited to dig into this idea
about how mid-careerprofessionals can tell their
story better and moreeffectively.
But before we get there, Iactually want to get into your
story a little bit.
What was your mid-career moment?
Gina Riley (03:44):
Ah, I had a very specific mid-career moment.
It was slightly early-ish, butyou know who's counting years.
I was working at Intel and Ihad risen up through staffing
and recruiting, and what Ireally wanted to do was
ultimately land in training anddevelopment.
I wanted to develop trainingprograms and be in front of the
room and train people.
Training and development Iwanted to develop training
(04:04):
programs and be in front of theroom and train people, but part
of the gateway to get there, inmy mind's eye, was to grow my
expertise in HR.
So I wanted to be an HR businesspartner, and at that time Intel
was requiring a master's degreeand I did not have it.
And so, as I sought outmentorship and talked to people
that I admired in the variousroles that I wanted to be in,
(04:24):
all of them said this is therequirement we can't sponsor you
until you have this credential.
And so it took me a couple ofyears and, hitting my head
against the wall, thinking themagic would happen, I would get
plucked up into the job I wanted.
It didn't happen, john.
So ultimately, for thissituation, I went back and I got
(04:45):
my master's degree.
It was in whole systems designand it specifically set me up to
be a consultant and sit at theright elbow of one of our up and
coming VPs.
I got assigned to this coolgroup it was the server group
and had this kind of hotshotteam of people growing a
business inside of Intel and hadthis kind of hotshot team of
(05:06):
people growing a business insideof Intel and what it took for
me was to listen to good adviceand then have sponsorship to
then get the job.
Tell us a little more what youmean by sponsorship.
Yes, sponsorship are people whospeak your name when you're not
(05:29):
in the room.
It's different than a mentor.
So I had mentors who offered meadvice and support as I
navigated my early career atIntel.
However, it took a couple ofthose people that were also
sponsors, who gave me their sageadvice, who nominated me, put
(05:50):
me up in front of decisionmakers who are making those
final hiring decisions on howthey were moving the chess
pieces within the staffing board, and that you need to have
people who maybe aren't evenmentors but they're willing to
talk about you when you're notthere.
John Neral (06:09):
So obviously a company like Intel.
We're talking very largecompany and for listeners who
may not be familiar with theidea of a sponsor or are maybe
confusing the role between amentor and a sponsor, gina, if
someone's working for, say, asmaller or medium-sized company,
is sponsorship opportunitiesstill available to them?
Gina Riley (06:34):
Yes, I have a really cool example, john.
I interviewed a woman namedAngela Shaw.
Angela Shaw is an HR leader,and it's for a series that I
wrote called how your NextExecutive Role Finds you, but
this applies to all people, notjust executives.
Her career transitionstrategies played out in such a
(06:56):
way where she really wasn'tusing job boards to apply for
jobs.
She was a volunteer leader andshe sought out volunteer
leadership opportunities withinher professional community In
this case, it was SHRM in Texasand so she would volunteer for
different kinds of roles,ultimately leading the
organization.
But the strategy was spendingher volunteer time showcasing
(07:20):
her knowledge and expertise andleadership skills so that when
other leadership roles in HRcame up in other companies, in
the surrounds people werespeaking her name when she was
not in the room and people wouldthen call her hey, angela, I
think I've got an opportunityyou should entertain.
That is a sponsor entertain.
John Neral (07:48):
That is a sponsor.
I love that and it reallydrives home this message,
especially right now in this jobmarket where, when we talk
about mid-career professionals,that you know, yeah, job boards
could potentially find yousomething, but we know it's
tedious and laborious and reallystressful, but it's that idea
about getting yourself out thereand building your brand and
building your network andeverything.
I love how you just you drivethat point home.
(08:12):
So your book Qualified Isn'tEnough that I did talk about in
the introduction has so many.
What I found going through itwas it's so many practical and
tactical tips to help peoplenavigate what that next move is
going to be.
But, gina, I want to spend acouple moments with you talking
(08:34):
about this idea of what you termas a career data vault.
Gina Riley (08:40):
All right Right to chapter four.
I love it, chapter four Exactlyso.
John Neral (08:45):
Give us what that I love it.
Chapter four exactly so.
Give us what that quickdefinition is of a career data
vault.
Gina Riley (08:49):
You got it.
I actually just published anarticle in Forbes Coaches
Council on this exact topic.
So the career data vault andit's so great for the mid-career
professional, john, becausethey haven't gotten so far along
in their career that they can'tgo back and construct the
memories.
So the career Data Vault is arepository of all of your career
wins, going all the way back tothe beginning up to today.
(09:13):
And where do you find the datato inform it?
You go back to all thoseperformance reviews that are in
writing.
And if you don't have those andso many of these people, john,
that are being laid off from theIntels and the Nikes and the
Googles and the Metas, some ofthem only have one or two years'
worth of stuff.
They haven't saved it or theygot locked out of their accounts
.
They don't have access and theydon't have the memories of the
(09:35):
details, and those details maycome in handy for interview
stories.
That's chapter seven.
So if you don't have yourrepository where you can tickle
your brain and your memory, youmay have less powerful stories
to share, and it erodesconfidence when we can't
(09:56):
remember them.
We're like God I think I didsomething really great, but I
don't remember what it was.
So I actually have people intheir 50s that I'm working with
now who are going back andcalling the colleagues back at
their former company and say canyou help refresh me on the
value I added on that project?
Because I don't remember.
So go back to the beginning andthat chapter exercise tells you
(10:21):
to the micro what it is thatyou're pulling out Quantifiable
results.
What were the obstacles andsituations?
Kind of go back to that SOARidea.
You know what was the situationobstacles, actions and results.
Results we got to have thoseresults for interview stories,
for resume bullet points, forLinkedIn profiles.
John Neral (10:41):
Nice.
So here's where I think ourlisteners are going to want to
really hone in and pay attentionhere, because oftentimes what I
find and I'd love to get yourtake on this as well, especially
around this work is that weknow our story right, we think
(11:02):
we know our story, but then whenwe go to tell it it's very easy
for us to leave out someinformation because we just
figure they're gonna figure thatall out.
And so the micro exercise thatyou have in your book that walks
through this protocol that youhave for building that career
data vault I wanna share withyou this quote that I pulled out
(11:24):
from your book because I'd lovefor you to talk about it on the
other side, specifically forwhat this would mean, especially
in the interview process for amid-career professional, let's
say, who is either workingdirectly with a recruiter or
perhaps with a hiring manager.
Okay, so this comes from yourchapter four, building your
(11:45):
Career Data Vault.
You write, quote Don't make mesearch hard or guess the extent
of your responsibilities andresults.
Many companies aren't widelyrecognized.
Describe your company'sindustry, clientele, revenue and
size up front Spoon.
Feed me this information.
(12:07):
If I need Google for basicinformation, I might move on to
the next candidate.
Gina Riley (12:15):
Yes, and that comes from one of my talents group
teammates, lynette Carney.
I can hear her voice sayingthose words that got wrapped
into the book.
Recruiters are moving fast.
We know that studies show thatit's 7 to 11 seconds for the
first skim.
(12:35):
Does it mean your resume onlygets 7 seconds?
No, what it does mean we needto look at that ladder study
from years ago.
Recruiters are reading yourresume in the shape of an F, as
in Frank.
They go across the top yourname, where are you?
What is your headline, may skimthe summary.
(12:56):
Then sometimes people bunch uptheir skills there next.
I personally do not read those.
I go right to company title andthen what was the size and
scope of the company in relationthen to the role you had in the
size and scope of your span ofcontrol?
If you will, that tells me I'mon the right resume to keep
(13:17):
going or not.
And the missed opportunity arethose quick hit details,
quantifiable details.
You know I work for this.
You know multi-site globalconglomerate.
And then where I sit in theecosystem is here and this is my
budget or my team size orwhatever that is.
If I have to go to Google, butI have 800 more resumes.
(13:39):
I need to skim.
I might put you in the B bucket.
Maybe I'll come back, maybe Iwon't.
John Neral (13:46):
Yeah, I think that's so important for people to hear
, because and I love the idea oflooking at the resume in that
shape of an F I had never heardit that way before, which I
really appreciate.
But, especially when workingwith recruiters, I tell my
clients all the time it is yourjob to make their recruiting job
as easy as possible.
(14:07):
Don't make them fish forinformation.
Attach your resume back withthe job posting to every email
you send so they don't have togo and find it and look for it.
Right, like, be a really goodfriend to them because they'll
help you out if it's the rightfit in that regard.
Gina Riley (14:26):
I love that, yeah.
John Neral (14:30):
So here's what I'm really curious about, though
when we have a mid-careerprofessional who is maybe they
don't have the data points, theydon't have the metrics because
the work that they've done hasmaybe been more around culture
(14:50):
or soft skills or thoseleadership skills that may not
be as easily quantifiable andthey come up and they go well,
what's your tangible results?
And they sit there and go.
Everything I did was part of alarger team and I don't really
have data points, but here'swhat I did and here's how my job
description played out, andthey get lost.
(15:12):
They get lost in this jobsearch process and they are not
seen by the people who need tobe seeing and advocating for
them in terms of their, theirhiring or their candidacy.
What do you tell people in thosesituations?
Gina Riley (15:25):
Oh, my goodness, I was just quickly trying to find
an article I wrote also forForbes Coaches Council.
I wrote an article on the sixdifferent things that
consultants may want to use inorder to help quantify their
impact.
Because if you think of supportroles as consulting roles, even
if you're an early careerperson in HR, IT, finance, think
(15:48):
of all the support roles thatmay not have some kind of
quantifi, even if you can't takecredit for the whole enchilada,
right.
(16:08):
So if what you did supported afunction, a group, a business
that ultimately sold gazillionsof widgets back into what it was
, that you did, that helpedsupport and enabled great work
to get done.
So, like I said, I was tryingto like quickly find it because
(16:31):
I've got the six things listed,but what you want to do is think
of it this way by what degreeup or down, increase or decrease
of something did you impact?
Did you help decrease?
You know the call center callscoming in because you did
something that enabled you knowthe whole system to work better.
(16:54):
It sounds like something youcan't quantify, but decreasing
the number of calls coming intoa call center saves time and
money.
John Neral (17:02):
Absolutely.
Gina Riley (17:03):
It also impacts NPS scores net promoter scores,
meaning satisfaction fromcustomers.
So we need to get creative andthink about it.
But we all have some kind ofimpact, even if it isn't.
I owned the $2 million revenuethat got sold to blah, blah,
blah.
John Neral (17:22):
Right, absolutely, and I think for people who are
in those types of roles, thechallenge then for them becomes
knowing what they have ownershipof, or what they owned in that
regard that they can talk abouthere's where my impact was, or
here what was quantifiable aboutit and to be very careful in
(17:44):
the words they use when theytell their story, that those
words are indicative ofconfidence and competence, as
opposed to this may sound likeI'm just making this up to make
myself look a little bit better.
Gina Riley (18:00):
Absolutely, absolutely.
These are all another trickthat you may want to employ if
you're a mid-career professionalstruggling to find those
quantifiables.
One is go talk to the peoplethat you worked for.
The people that you worked forare the ones that gave you your
review and were the ones thatwent to bat during promotional
(18:22):
season promotion season whereyou got your raises, maybe a
promotion.
They're the ones that know whatyour value add was, because
that's what they're measuredagainst as well.
So they can say here's whereyou had impact to me in my life
as a manager.
Translate that to like what itmeans for you, more at that
micro level.
So that's one trick you know.
(18:42):
Another trick is to talk topeople that you serve.
So, if you're in HR or ifyou're in IT or whatever it is
that you're doing in theorganization, but you go out to
the people that the work impactsand say, when I do what I do
best, what do you do better?
What's better in your life?
Because of what I provide.
(19:03):
And you know, gosh, if we don'tget some good answers then we
probably should question what itis that we're doing.
John Neral (19:15):
Well, that's why we have those conversations right.
They're especially helpful interms of getting the information
we need, especially when wethink about what's that story we
want to tell in an interview.
Gina Riley (19:28):
Absolutely.
And you know, john, anotherkind of just anecdotal this is
just me but when I moved fromstaffing and recruiting into
another role, before I became anHR business partner, I ran the
intern program for the Oregonsite.
We had the largest site in theworld, I believe.
At the time I hired 500 internsin one year myself.
I made that many offers and Imanaged the programming of it,
(19:50):
which was a lot of fun, but itwas super high stress and it was
really high volume and I wasvery driven to be an achiever in
that role, and so what I wasworking to accomplish were the
conversions.
Intel had to hire a lot ofrecent college graduates and
that costs money to go andrecruit and make those offers
and try to secure people in ahighly competitive market, and
(20:13):
so everything I did was builtaround how am I going to make
sure the best students arecoming in at the GP and minimum
requirements that we're going torequire for the college
graduates that we hire and thenwork in those hiring managers to
make offers at the right timeand sell those students.
So 72% conversion that year,that's massive.
(20:38):
Think how much money I may havesaved us Intel from having to
go and recruit new people andconvince them to come work.
So you can find juice in manythings that you do.
John Neral (20:55):
So absolutely.
And, Gina, what I want to doright now, for a few minutes, is
I'd love for you to put thathiring manager hat on that you
have worn at different times inyour career, because I want the
listeners today to get a senseof what it's like to be on the
other side of the table.
(21:15):
So you, being the person who'sresponsible for hiring talent,
you have those hiring decisionsthat you're going to be making
and a candidate comes in at thatfinal round or next to final
round of the interview.
You've looked at their resume.
They are qualified, competent,it looks like they're going to
(21:37):
be a potential fit.
It's just a matter of betweenthem and whoever else you have
in that very small, small windowat this final round of an
interview.
You go through the questions,you go through the questions,
you go through the interview and, as you're listening to the
candidate respond, we know morethan ever storytelling is so
(21:58):
vital in an interview.
As a hiring manager, what makesa story compelling enough that
keeps you interested in who theyare and what they do in the job
interview.
Gina Riley (22:14):
I have one word to start with Relevancy.
Relevancy If you're telling thewrong stories that don't apply
to the hairiest problems thatteam is trying to solve, that
don't apply to the hairiestproblems that team is trying to
solve.
What is keeping that hiringmanager up at night and if they
hire you, they pay you a goodsalary to be the solution to
(22:35):
their business problems then youbetter be speaking their
language.
You need to have done their so.
In chapter seven I talk aboutbeing the rare candidate, which
is research.
Align your stories, read theroom and evaluate the
opportunity.
If you do awesome research onall the people that you
(22:58):
interview with the company,their challenges, what's in the
news, what are they trying toaccomplish Then you align your
interview stories.
I like the sore method that canbe debated at some other time
and then working to build up thestories that then tie to what
these people are trying toaccomplish, and that's the
(23:19):
reading the room part, bodylanguage, how they're responding
to you, checking in and makingsure the interview is a
conversation and not a one-waydrill sergeant session.
You're there to make anevaluation as well, so the
stories must align and berelevant.
John Neral (23:37):
That's so good and I hope people will hit the back
button a couple of times just togo back and hear that answer,
because the idea about listeningintuitively and diagnostically,
as you say, reading the roombut to have that kind of
relevance in terms of thestories you're choosing, is so
vital.
But what I also envision hereis that when a job candidate
(24:02):
does that, how much do youbelieve it takes the neediness
or the desperation out of theirtone when they're telling their
story, when they're in thatfinal round of an interview.
Gina Riley (24:23):
Yes, when you show up really understanding what
those business challenges are,with aligned stories and your
UVP, that's chapters one throughfive, developing that, now
you're freed up to be curious.
Now you're freed up to asksmart, effective questions that
(24:43):
enable you to have a juicierdeeper conversation, questions
that enable you to have ajuicier deeper conversation.
The candidates that do lesswell I don't know if that's good
grammar the people that end upnot getting the offers are
passive.
They're waiting for thequestions to come their way.
Then they respond and they'rethinking about all of the
frameworks of SOAR and STAR andCAR and they're just hitting the
(25:07):
robotic button.
You can't do that for seniorlevel roles, especially as
you're growing up and trying toget promotions in your career.
You need to have intuition.
You need to navigate thechallenges and show that you
understand challenges backwardsand forwards.
You can't do that if your mindis locked up, worrying about
what you're going to say.
Instead, you already need toknow what you're going to say.
(25:29):
You know your stories.
Now you're curious.
John Neral (25:34):
Yeah, well said Absolutely.
And a shout out to my editor,who often listens to this
podcast.
I'm going to just say Leswellis okay.
He'll tell me otherwise, soshout out to him, i'm't.
I'm going to just say Leswellis okay.
Gina Riley (25:49):
He'll tell me.
Otherwise I'm not perfect, John.
John Neral (25:58):
I'm not either, but in the moment I think Leswell
absolutely works, because it's.
It's that point that you justmade, though right, that it's
about listening so intently andand being so present in the
moment that you are having aconversation, that it's a
conversation rooted in whetheror not you believe you can
actually help them solve theirproblems.
(26:20):
That, to your point earlier,that hiring manager can actually
get to sleep at night.
Gina Riley (26:25):
Absolutely.
You know it's the same for evenbeing a podcast guest.
Right now.
I'm on your turf right.
I have a lot to say.
I could talk for hours on thistopic, but I have to read the
room.
Which stories do you want totell for your audience to help
solve their problems?
We all show up in service ofwhen we're the guest, so to
(26:48):
speak, and when you're the jobseeker, you're not on the inside
yet you got to earn it.
John Neral (26:55):
So for that job seeker who's getting close
they're getting the final roundinterviews, they feel like
they're doing all of the rightthings, but they're not getting
the job offer what strategies doyou recommend to help them show
up either more impactfully orshow up for their interview a
(27:15):
little bit differently that theycan then evaluate whether or
not what they're doing isactually leading to getting to
that job offer?
Gina Riley (27:24):
It's another question I really love, because
if you're getting into thatnumber two or three spot
repeatedly which in this jobmarket would be phenomenal, to
have all the shots in the ring,so to speak but you're not
getting the offer, it could be anumber of things that have
nothing to do with you.
So let's start with that.
One is they went with aninternal candidate.
Internal candidates are reallytough to beat and sometimes you
(27:45):
don't even know you're upagainst that.
So when my clients went beatout an internal candidate, I
find out later I almost crybecause it's such a big deal.
Okay, or they change the scope,or you know what they wanted
for their target and you weren'tquite it, and that's okay.
I mean that's you know, that'stheir decision, or it could be
(28:08):
something that you're doingrepeatedly that's just not
landing.
One is maybe the stories aren'tas sharp as you think they are,
maybe you are rambling andtalking a little too much, or
maybe it's executive presence.
So executive presence issomething that I've spoken at
conferences about, I've writtenabout it.
There's 17 different elements ofexecutive presence, with three
(28:30):
major categories.
One is how we appear, soappearance, communication and
gravitas the first hurdle thatwe need to get over when we walk
into the virtual or real roomis our appearance.
People are biased and they makea three-second determination
about what they think about youbecause we humans want to
(28:52):
categorize and feel safe in theworld.
So you've got to read the room,wear the right things, show up
in a certain way, right.
Once you get past that, it'scommunication and gravitas.
Gravitas is the most important,so it's how we speak, how we
behave.
So, within the micro of allthese moving parts, you've got
to read the room.
You got to show that you canmake decisions.
(29:14):
You've got to be a greatlistener, you need to be
decisive, so there could besomething in the way that you're
communicating that devaluesyour impact.
John Neral (29:31):
Yeah, and we know how difficult it is for
candidates to get feedbackduring an interview.
So to have that type ofreflection or introspection
around what could I be doing alittle bit differently, or how
could I tell this storydifferently, or maybe it needs
to be a different story.
I think that's the part where,after the interview, job seekers
(29:53):
and candidates can do somereally deep work around where
they might choose to pivot theirstrategy.
Gina Riley (29:59):
Absolutely.
If you don't mind, I have agreat example for the mid-career
professional.
John Neral (30:03):
Please do yeah, absolutely.
And.
Gina Riley (30:06):
I'll say I work with a lot of humble people, men and
women.
Women particularly have achallenging time owning what
they lead and direct becausethey're collaborative and
fearful of not coming across ashumble.
I have worked with people froma variety of cultures also that
just come with the humility.
I was working with a mid-careerprofessional one of the major
(30:29):
big high-tech companies globallyand she was in charge of 20
product developers in technology.
This is a really highlyeducated, great leader.
She started to tell me herinterview stories and what she
would do is she would tell methe situation and she would tell
me some of the obstacles andthen she would beeline it to the
(30:51):
actions and results, or noteven the actions.
She would go right to theresults and because I already
knew her UVP we had workedthrough her storytelling and I
knew that she was probablynavigating cross-functional
teams and influencing certaindecisions before she even got in
the room for a pitch and thentook, as a good leader, took
(31:12):
product developers in with herin front of 12 VPs to get
funding for the projects skippedover all the cross-functional
influencing, skipped over howshe elevated her people and
brought them in the room roomand skipped over what she had to
do to get the funding for thoseprojects that ended up making
that company gobs of money.
(31:35):
And so when I dialed it back andsaid, how hard was it to do
that job?
Didn't you do this, Didn't youdo this, and so on, she sat back
and took a big breath and wentoh my gosh, you're right, I
skipped over all the things thatmake me a good leader.
If you gloss over the juice, noone's going to guess it.
(31:57):
No one would have guessed whatshe did.
Right, I just happened to knowit because I had teased it all
out and I knew who she was.
John Neral (32:05):
Well, that's why our work is so important, right?
That's why what we get to do ascareer coaches and consultants
and trainers and speakers andauthors, that's where we get to
help draw those things out forpeople.
So I love that story.
Thank you for sharing that.
Well, Gina, we are almost attime.
It is amazing how time justflew by and everything you
(32:25):
shared so much, and I know youhave so much more to say.
So I wanna give you the mic fora couple of moments and as we
wrap this interview up, I alwaysask my guests to share what
advice they would give thelisteners to help them build
their mid-career GPS that thingthat's gonna take them from
where they are to where theywanna be.
So if there was something youhaven't shared yet today to help
(32:49):
someone build that next step intheir career trajectory, what
would you tell them?
Gina Riley (32:55):
Okay, I've got concentric circles that overlap,
as per usual.
One develop your unique valueproposition and keep it with you
for your career.
It may change.
Some of your strengths andvalues may change over time what
you lean into, the career pridepoints are going to change.
(33:15):
But you need to understand yourcareer thread, what the themes
and patterns of your career are,so that every time you network
and every time you interview youcan answer tell me about
yourself, which is not anelevator pitch, it's a three to
five minutes highlights reelthat help people understand
where you fit in the ecosystem.
If you're not clear, no one elsewill be clear and you won't be
(33:37):
able to make asks and getreferrals.
That's one.
Two build a healthy network andmaintain it throughout your
career.
That would be the other thing.
And then the third thing Iwould say is make sure that you
build up what I call a PBODpersonal board of directors or
advisory team of mentors of avariety of skill sets and
(34:02):
backgrounds so that you getinformation from different kinds
of people.
Maybe someone on that team hasfinance background, another's HR
background.
One is a program manager.
I don't know People you admirethat you trust that can give you
advice throughout your careerto help you navigate and use
your GPS appropriately.
John Neral (34:21):
Yeah, so good, so good.
Thank you so very much.
Well, today is September 9thand as we go to wrap up here, I
want you to share all of thegreat things where people can
connect and follow you, andperhaps maybe share a little bit
(34:41):
why September 9th, once again,is such a big day for you.
Gina Riley (34:46):
Oh, my goodness, I am a new published author.
September 9th is when QualifiedIsn't Enough Hits the newsstand
, so to speak, and I could notbe more excited to help people
develop their story so that theycan tell better stories.
Land interviews win the job, soI'm excited to bird this into
the world.
People can find me atGinaRileyConsulting.
(35:06):
com and I'm on LinkedIn,probably as you, John.
Every day I'm there, I post,and I have almost 24 articles on
the Forbes Coaches Council onthat website as well, to help
job seekers.
That's what I do.
I spend all my time buildingcontent to help job seekers
navigate to their next bestthing.
John Neral (35:27):
Wonderful, gina.
I am so glad we connected.
Gina Riley, thank you for beingsuch an amazing guest on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast.
Thank you.
All right, my friends, here'smy one takeaway.
I've got a lot of takeaways frommy conversation with Gina today
, but here's one.
Where are you relevant?
What's your relevance whenyou're thinking about the
(35:47):
stories you want to tell, whenyou're networking or
interviewing, you're sitting atyour job and talking to your
supervisor and considering anopportunity for a promotion, or
you just want more visibility ona particular project?
Where are you being relevant?
What is your relevance actuallydoing to make the case that you
are the best fit and the bestperson to take on this
(36:12):
responsibility or this role orget this promotion?
Gina talked so much about howhaving a relevant story and
reading the room is integral toyour career success.
So if you want to put somethingelse into your GPS toolkit right
now, what I want to offer youtoday is lean into Gina's
(36:32):
comments about relevance and dosome work around.
Where are you the most relevantin your career, your industry
and your organization right now?
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
(36:54):
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
(37:15):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
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