October 21, 2025 • 49 mins
What does it take to walk away from a successful career to build one that aligns with your passion and future? In this episode, Emmy-winning journalist Lindsey Mastis shares her journey of leaving a 20-year career in tv news, to create an independent reporting career focused on AI and emerging technology.
If you’ve ever wondered how to make a bold mid-career pivot, this conversation is packed with insights on courage, reinvention, and staying relevant in a rapidly changing world. Lindsey opens up about making her final contract decision, handling the emotional aftermath with family and colleagues, and redefining success around health, purpose, and learning.
You’ll also hear how Lindsey is navigating the intersection of journalism and AI—from using AI tools ethically to creating her new documentary-style project, “Is AI Ruining Music?”, featuring voices like Rosanne Cash, Jackson Browne, and DJCherishtheLuv. Together, we explore how to stay human in an increasingly digital world and why embracing discomfort can fuel your next chapter.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- How to make a confident decision to leave a familiar career path
- The emotional and professional realities of a mid-career reinvention
- What “doing it scared” looks like in practice
- How to balance well-being with professional ambition
- Why learning business skills is essential for career independence
- How to collaborate with AI tools while keeping your authentic voice
- Practical ways to experiment, fail forward, and iterate your next move
- The ethical questions shaping AI’s role in creative industries
- What “human-made” really means in an algorithmic world
Connect with Lindsey Mastis
LinkedIn | Substack | Website | YouTube
Ready to give your career the jumpstart it needs to whatever is next? Schedule a $197 Career/Leadership Strategy Session. Click here to learn more about how this transformative strategy session will help you.
Visit https://johnneral.com/resources to:
- Subscribe to my free leadership and career newsletter
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- Join The Mid-Career GPS Membership Community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Leaving a job you love to pursue something else is
not for the weak of heart.
In fact, it takes tremendouscourage and resilience to go
after your next advancementopportunity.
So I'm sure you can imagine howmy curiosity was piqued.
While watching our local ABCaffiliate earlier this year, I
(00:20):
was surprised and curious as towhy my guest would leave her
position in TV News to pursue acareer reporting on AI and tech.
See, I met today's guest in2018 at a Wheel of Fortune
contestant audition.
Lindsey Mastis was covering theevent for our local ABC
(00:40):
affiliate, WJLA, and Iintroduced myself to her during
the event and thanked her forher work as a journalist.
Fast forward to a few monthsago when I sent a connection
request to Lindsey on LinkedIn,and here's what I wrote.
Hi, Lindsey.
We met a few years ago at aWheel of Fortune event in
Virginia, and I remember youfrom WJLA.
(01:04):
Professionally, I'd like toconnect and see if you would be
interested in speaking about AIand mid-career on my podcast,
The Mid-Career GPS.
Sincerely, John.
Within a few minutes, Lindseyresponded, sent me a link to
schedule an introductory call,and we connected.
I have truly enjoyed hearingher career story and learning
(01:27):
from her about what's happeningin AI and tech and how it's
impacting the way we work andlive.
And you'll hear that in today'sinterview.
In this episode, you will hearLindsey Mastis' powerful career
story and what led her to stepout of TV news to go out on her
own.
You'll hear her mindset andthought process about what it
(01:49):
took to make that career changeand why you should be curious
about where AI is heading andwhat it means for us personally
and professionally.
Let's get started.
If you're looking for help andsupport navigating your
(02:27):
mid-career journey, I invite youto check out my website for
several resources to help youget the career clarity you need
to build your network and tocrush your next interview.
It's all there for you atjohnner.com forward slash
resources, or you can check theshow notes for a link.
One of the things I love aboutdoing this podcast is talking to
(02:52):
people who are not simplynavigating their mid-career
journey, but they're navigatingit in bold and interesting ways.
And today's guest has done it,and done it in the public
spotlight and out in front forall to follow and learn.
Lindsey Mastis is anaward-winning journalist and an
expert on AI and emergingtechnology.
(03:14):
During her 20-year career intelevision news, she received
four Emmy Awards and is arecipient of a regional Edward
R.
Murrow Award.
She has covered everything frommass shootings to robots on
Capitol Hill.
And she just debuted a minidocumentary-style news feature
called, Is AI Ruining Music?
(03:34):
featuring Roseanne Cash,Jackson Brown, DJ Cherish the
Love, and a host of others.
You can watch it on Lindsey'sYouTube channel and also check
the show notes for a link.
This is a conversation thatwalks you through someone's
decision to leave their job andgo after something they truly
(03:56):
want.
And it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Lindsey Mastis.
Lindsey Mastis, welcome to thepodcast.
Lindsey Mastis (04:05):
Thank you so much for having me.
You're always a blast to talkwith.
So I'm so happy to be here.
John Neral (04:10):
We have a good time.
It would be it would be fun ifthe if the listeners got to hear
our pre-call and what happenedbefore this interview and
everything.
But they're going to get thisin the interview because we're
absolutely going to have a greattime.
I shared a little bit in theintro how we had connected
initially.
And one of the reasons I wantedto have you on the podcast is
you are such a great example ofmaking a huge pivot in
(04:34):
mid-career to pursue what it isthat you want to do.
So would you please share withthe listeners what was your
mid-career moment?
Lindsey Mastis (04:42):
Sure.
So what was really big, ithappened a little bit earlier
this year.
I left TV News after 20 yearsto start my own company.
And it's, I love that we callit a pivot.
Some people are calling itwalking away from it all.
And that's been a veryinteresting experience.
Uh, it's left a lot of peopleconfused.
(05:03):
But I I don't, I have momentsof confusion, but for the most
part, I'm pretty clear on whatI'm trying to accomplish and
where I'm going.
Um, but yeah, it's it was uh itwas one of those things where
until I did it, I didn't knowfor sure that I would.
And so this was almost as muchof a surprise for me.
(05:24):
I know it was a huge surprisefor my colleagues because I
didn't make the decision toleave until the very last
moment.
In TV News, we operate undercontracts.
So I was on the last day that Icould make that decision.
And I went into my newsdirector, whom I adore, and I'm
sitting there and I'm tellingher as if it's a question.
(05:47):
Like, uh, so I think I'm gonnago, like, you know, like stop me
if I'm making a bad decision,you know.
And so um, that was on aFriday, and I think that they
made the announcement that Iwould be leaving on like a
Monday or Tuesday.
So my colleagues had no idea.
Uh, it's it's hard to keepsecrets in newsrooms to quote
(06:09):
the original movie, the paper,not the new one that's coming
out, but the original one.
Uh, the quote is Henry, it's anewsroom, right?
Like, of course, you know, youcan't keep anything secret in a
newsroom.
But um, I remember one of mycolleagues literally uh, you
know, messaged me or said to me,you know, biggest kept secret
(06:31):
of the year.
And it's like I didn't mean forit to be.
It's just that I hadn't made myfinal decision until basically
game time.
John Neral (06:40):
What was it like processing not just your
emotions, but your colleagues,family, friends' emotions of now
that this move, if you will,was finally spoken and
announced?
What was that like for you?
Lindsey Mastis (06:57):
Some of it's a blur.
I think probably the biggestwas with my mom.
So, and I don't remember when Istarted to think this way
exactly.
I I knew that I had done almosteverything I could do in the
position I was in.
And in news, stories change allthe time, but sometimes you
(07:19):
find yourself reporting on thesame stories year after year.
You know, there's annual thingsthat happen.
And I love covering AI and techbecause it was something new
that I could learn.
But I remember there being apoint where I started kind of
raised with my mom, I think thatmaybe I might want to try
something different.
(07:39):
And I remember her having someshock.
I don't know thatdisappointment was the right
word, but I think she was alittle more concerned about me
leaving TV news than I was aboutit.
And my mom is one of the veryfew people I was having a
(07:59):
conversation with about what Iwas planning to do.
And um, I was kind ofunconsciously planning for this.
I and I didn't quite realizeit, I think, until hindsight.
But I started to tell my mom atone point, I need to, I need to
feel what this, you know, Ineed to say it out loud and just
(08:21):
feel what that sounds like.
And so I would kind of trydifferent scenarios on, you
know, with my mom, like I'mgoing to do this, or I'm going
to leave, or I'm going to trysomething different.
I forgot what I exactly said,but just saying it out loud, I
wanted to then, it wasn't justabout saying it out loud.
(08:43):
It was about how do I feel whenI say it out loud?
What's my internal reaction?
Am I kind of smiling when I sayit?
Am I terrified?
Am I crying?
Am I angry?
Am I, you know, and I foundthat when I said it, I had like
a little bit of a smile on myface, just a little hint of
(09:05):
excitement.
John Neral (09:08):
Can you share more with us about some of the things
you found yourself doing orsaying that indicated you were
thinking more seriously aboutleaving your job in TB News?
Lindsey Mastis (09:19):
For the past six years, I've been waking up at
two in the morning and drivingto work and doing hours of live
news, which I love.
Um, but I also had these otherprojects going on.
And out of everything that Idid, I was loving AI and tech.
And I was trying to find ifthere was like a pathway where I
could be doing that more on afull-time basis and not having
(09:42):
to wake up at two in themorning.
And uh unfortunately, like, Imean, I could have probably
stayed in that job forever, butforever at two in the morning,
or another odd shift.
And my body was reallyscreaming at me that it couldn't
do it anymore.
You know, and now if I'm up attwo in the morning, it's because
I stayed up late or am going tocatch a plane to a really cool
(10:05):
place, you know.
But for the most part, I neededto put my health first.
Um, and I never make a decisionbased on one factor.
So there were a lot of things,but that one was a very big one.
And now that I've made thispivot, getting sleep is really
important.
And when I look back on thistime, I realize that I was
preparing myself, even though Ididn't know it.
(10:27):
I had been creating my ownat-home studio, which didn't
really set up a set off anyalarm bells for me because I I
love what I do so much that evenwhen I'm on vacation, I do
stand-ups, which is when thereporter's in front of the
camera and like they didn't goanywhere, but pretty much every
vacation we've been on, I've hadsome type of like idea in my
(10:49):
head where I want to report onthis.
Um, but I started to like getall these materials at home.
And then if you think about um,there was, I guess, like a
study done or something, and andthey said that like if you're
talking to somebody, if you lookdown at your feet or their feet
and your feet are like facingthe door, one of you wants out
(11:09):
of that conversation, right?
It's like wherever your feetare pointing is kind of where
you actually want to go.
So if your feet are like facingthe person you're talking to,
you're really engaged in thatconversation.
If you take a glance down andtheir feet are not, you might be
the only one engaged in thatconversation.
So I kind of look back andrealize I was doing these things
to kind of prepare myself.
(11:30):
It's like my feet were almostlike facing the door and I
didn't know it.
unknown (11:35):
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis (11:35):
And then when the time came, I made a game day
decision.
John Neral (11:42):
So many times on this podcast, I'll talk about or
my guests will come on and talkabout that there's this moment
of clarity that they have interms of making their decision.
And when people go through acareer change or pivot, if you
will, especially if they're ifthey're moving away from
something that they've known for20 years like yourself, that
(12:04):
clarity piece often takes manydifferent shapes, especially as
you move through, if you will,the next or the first year after
making that move.
Given that you made yourannouncement in in January and
you've we're almost at the endof 2025.
It's kind of scary to saybecause we're going to be at the
(12:26):
middle to end of October whenthis drops.
What would you say are some ofthe things that you have learned
about navigating this careertransition that has surprised
you in some ways?
Lindsey Mastis (12:38):
Oh, a lot of it has surprised me.
I wasn't as prepared as Ithought I was.
I thought that I had all theskill set I needed for the next
chapter.
I thought that I had a roadmap.
I thought that my firstbusiness plan was, you know, all
I had to worry about.
I think I've written four atthis point.
(12:59):
Um, you know, because I justkind of shift and change as I go
along.
But what I realized is that Ihad some additional skill set to
learn.
You know, in television news,uh, especially on the side where
you're the one on camera,you're thinking about the
content and the stories.
You're not thinking about thebusiness of news.
And here I am with my owncompany for the first time
(13:22):
having to think about thebusiness of news.
Now, over the course of mycareer, I did get interested in
the business of news and I askeda lot of questions, but there
is a separation between the addepartment and the news
department, the marketingdepartment and the news
department.
Like there's, you know, it'sit's almost siloed a little bit
by design.
(13:43):
And that's so that editorial,you know, to have that editorial
control.
Like we maintain that controlover the stories we plan to
cover.
We don't have advertisementinvolvement in that, you know,
unless it's sponsored content.
But journalists don't dosponsored content.
So, you know, I it's justfascinating because I here I am
(14:03):
thinking to myself, I've got itdown, and then realized, oh,
wait, I had asked questions, butuntil I was in this position, I
didn't know I had to ask thisor that.
So I luckily have been able togo through two different
training courses that havetaught me some of the additional
skill set that I need.
(14:24):
And of course, I'm someone wholoves to learn.
So I have like a list that's amile long on this is what else I
need to learn.
And I have to remind myselfthat that should be throughout
my lifetime, not this week,right?
You can only learn so much dayby day.
Um, so it's really been aninteresting, an interesting year
(14:46):
so far.
I mean, the year's not over.
And in my head, I'm alreadyplanning for 2026.
But I also realize that at anymoment, some amazing opportunity
might pop up and I might say,oh, this is this works great
with what I'm doing with mycompany.
Let's, you know, let's makemagic happen.
Let's partner up, let's trythis.
So I'm very open to that aswell.
(15:08):
But it's, I gotta say, youknow, what I what I thought it
was going to be like this yearis not what it was.
And I think that because I wentinto this with some flexibility
and some open-mindedness, itwas fine.
But I think if I had like aconcrete plan that I wasn't
willing to budge on, I don'tknow that I would feel the way I
(15:31):
feel today.
And I feel pretty good today.
John Neral (15:33):
Yeah.
Well, having followed you for awhile, especially following you
this past year on social mediaand seeing you at events and at
conferences and speaking andputting more content out there,
it definitely seems that youcome across with a lot of um
competence and confidence interms of what you're putting out
(15:57):
there at the same time havingthis fervor for learning and
being like, what else can I,what else can I share with
everybody?
What else can I pick up andshare?
So it's appreciated withoutquestion.
Lindsey Mastis (16:08):
Thank you.
I love to bring people alongfor the ride.
So anytime I'm learning like anew AI skill, for example, I'm
sort of like you, right?
I'm the I'm the viewer.
And when you watch, you'recoming along with me, right?
We're doing this together.
So I might be going through allthe steps to learn a new skill,
(16:28):
but really you're going throughit with me, and you can learn
just as much as I'm learning.
And I think you can see too,sometimes in in what I put out,
um, I show my mistakes, I showmy failures.
I crashed a Blackhawkhelicopter simulation.
I need to point out that it wasa simulation multiple times in
VR.
(16:48):
And I thought I was gonna begood at it because I used to go
up in one of our news chappersand actually handle the camera.
So I thought I'd be pretty goodat controls.
I thought I'd be really great,great in that scenario.
And I mean, I there was no wayaround it.
I was like, you know, most ofthis piece is gonna be me
crashing.
How do I bring the viewersalong so that they're still
(17:08):
learning about what thistechnology can do while also not
ignoring the blatant fact thatI keep landing the thing on its
side or, you know, and it wasfascinating to me to kind of get
to the point where after I wasdone shooting it and I'm sitting
there and putting it togetherand I'm like, how much of this
(17:29):
do I show?
And I'm like, well, you knowwhat?
If I don't show how difficultsome of this is, then I don't
think that people who are kindof interested in AI but afraid
to dive in, they may think, oh,I'll never be able to do that.
Well, guess what?
I'm not really able to do iteither, but I'm figuring it out
and we're and we are learningtogether and we're we're seeing
(17:51):
success, you know, and I thinkthat's really important to show.
And when you talk about like acareer pivot, it's really
important too to let everyoneknow, you know, it's it's not
like a straight line.
It's not like, oh, I had aplan, I followed it, and at the
end was success or a pot ofgold.
It's more like, oh, I didn'tthink of this before.
(18:12):
Yeah, I think I want to dothis.
Or in some cases, it's like, Ithought I wanted to do this, but
I I'm not having fun when I trythis out.
Maybe I want to go in adifferent direction and just
listening to myself, right?
Like I don't, I don't reallyhave a team the way I used to
have a team to bounce theseideas off of, right?
(18:33):
A lot of it's me.
And Chat GPT has been reallygood at letting me bounce ideas
off of it, but it's also like acheerleader who's not gonna tell
you if it's a bad idea.
It's like, great idea, go forit.
Like, uh, I don't, I kind ofdon't think this is a good idea,
Chat GPT.
Oh, you're right, you're right.
It's like it's constantlytelling me I'm right.
(18:55):
So that part's a little bithard.
Um, especially with a 20-yearbackground in TV news.
I'm used to someone sayingthat's a dumb idea.
I mean, they don't say it thatway, but they mean it that way.
And it comes across sometimewhere they're like, no, you're
not doing a story on that.
Are you crazy?
You know, um, and sometimes youpush the envelope, you're like,
actually, you see the visionand you push through and you
(19:16):
have to convince the peoplearound you that this is a great
story.
So I am my biggest champion,and I also have the potential of
being my own worst enemy if Idon't give myself those checks
and balances.
So I found that reallyimportant uh while working solo.
John Neral (19:34):
I appreciate you sharing all of that because for
the mid-career professionalwho's listening, it's so
important for them to hear thatthey're our paths are not
linear, right?
They're gonna have detours andturns and things like that.
And for many who are currentlytrying to find a new job in this
market, they're leaning on someform of AI to help them, be it
(20:00):
optimizing their resume, theirLinkedIn, helping them with
their interview prep, whateverit may be.
And I'm so glad you brought upthis notion, because I've seen
it as well, where Chat GPT getsto be the biggest cheerleader
and everything's great andwonderful and affirming, and
you're like, well, I'm notreally sure that might be the
best way to handle this part ofthe resume or this part of the
(20:23):
LinkedIn.
Right.
Um, for people who maybe do nothave a strong knowledge of how
AI works, or they're using it asa tool that for the sake of our
conversation, let's say, is alittle bit more sophisticated
than a Google search.
What could you what could youshare with that mid-career job
(20:49):
seeker right now who's dabblinga little bit in AI, but not
really sure how they could beusing it?
What would you tell them?
Lindsey Mastis (20:59):
Sure.
So there's going to be twothings I really want to stress.
The first thing has to do withletting AI do things for you.
And when you're talking abouttrying to find a new job or
career path, I think the lastthing you want to do is let AI
determine what that path isgoing to be and also to be your
(21:20):
voice.
You need to maintain yourvoice.
And if anything, you need tofind your voice again.
I think that's reallyimportant.
I mean, I was lucky intelevision news to um, you know,
kind of have some of mypersonality shine through, but
there were a lot of elements ofmy personality I had to hide
because it didn't really fitinto the mold of who people
(21:41):
expected me to be on screen.
So I also have to realize thatwho I am as my authentic self is
what I need to bring to thetable in this new chapter.
So that's what I really want tostress and urge.
It's so easy to go into a ChatGPT, into a Gemini, into a
co-pilot, into any of those LLMsand say, do it for me, write my
(22:04):
resume for me, write this coverletter for me, or what should I
say?
Right.
We're used to taking direction.
But when we're asking how we'regoing to be presented by
someone who's not us, anyone butus, we're not coming through as
our authentic selves.
So I would say it's soimportant to utilize the
(22:26):
technology as a proofreader, assomething to maybe how I use it
is uh I'll bounce ideas off ofit.
I'll say, I've got two ideas.
I was planning to put eitherthis in my resume or that in my
resume.
Should I stress this?
Should I stress that?
I mean, 20 years of uh oftelevision news and all the
(22:48):
places I've lived and adventuresand and tragedies and all kinds
of things that I have uhcovered throughout these two
decades, it doesn't all fit.
And what am I trying to convey,right?
So, what part of myself do Iwant to include in this next
chapter?
And because I focus on AI andtech so much, a lot of the other
(23:08):
news stories that I'm reallyproud of and that are very
impressive, they don't reallyfit into this narrative.
So when I use AI, it's just tokind of help me edit a little
bit more or to make sure I'mbeing true to myself of, hey,
I'm kind of thinking of notmentioning this.
Um, and it'll say, actually,you probably should, right?
That's you.
And you want to find this.
(23:29):
If you're doing a pivot, youwant to find the reason you're
doing the pivot, right?
You have to be honest aboutthat.
Why are you pivoting, right?
It's because you're ready to bemore of yourself.
You know, I mean, I know insome cases people are trying to
chase a bit of a paycheck,things like that, but that'll
come if you're being authenticto yourself.
The second thing I would sayabout AI is dive into the tools.
(23:53):
Do you remember that app calledPeriscope?
John Neral (23:57):
Yes.
Lindsey Mastis (23:58):
Okay.
I I loved Periscope.
And I was just at an event umthis week, and uh pretty much no
one knew what I was talkingabout.
So I only take a moment tomention what Periscope was.
It was an app that did livestreaming video to be you know
in the simplest form, livestreaming vertical video, which
we take for granted now, but itwas very new at the time.
(24:21):
We weren't seeing, you know,people doing Facebook Lives, we
didn't have TikTok, we didn'thave Insta Live.
Um, Instagram was still prettymuch just pictures at that
point.
And we didn't have, I don'tknow, I don't even know that we
had reels and shorts and allthat kind of stuff at that
point.
But with a click of a button, Icould be live.
(24:43):
And uh yeah, I'm on TV, I golive all the time, but this was
without commercial breaks.
This was unstructured that thiscould be for hours and hours at
a time.
People were going live andshowing themselves sleep all
night.
I saw people, I mean, theydidn't show anything, they were
outside the shower curtain, butthey were taking showers while
(25:03):
live, you know, just racking upas many likes and hearts as they
possibly could, because that'show you interacted with it.
And you people could comment onit and you could answer their
questions.
The first time I used it, Ishowed off my refrigerator.
That's what you did on the app.
You're like, show us yourrefrigerator.
I don't know if that wassupposed to be something else,
you know, some other kind ofcontext to that, but people just
(25:25):
were showing off theirrefrigerators at the time.
I hopped on this the first weekit came out.
And the very first time Ilooked at it, I didn't, and I
know you're gonna laugh, butlike I didn't know if the person
who was live streaming couldsee me.
unknown (25:42):
Okay.
Lindsey Mastis (25:44):
You know, like it back when television first
came out, in some cases, peoplethought that they could be seen
through the TV.
I had that moment withPeriscope.
I've soon realized theycouldn't see me, right?
Like I was making sure I wasnot taking my phone in the
bathroom with me or anythinglike that when I was using this
app.
But basically, I um started touse it to show behind the
(26:08):
scenes.
I started to use it while Iplayed my piano.
I started to use it just allthe time.
And even though I was on air, Igot so much better at my craft.
Right.
I I all of a sudden was muchbetter on air and it started to
open doors for me.
So a lot of the positions thatI've had in the last 10 years of
(26:29):
my career were new positionsthat did not exist before.
Um, I was able to in several ina couple of newsrooms, uh,
train newsrooms on touchscreentechnology, right?
I became the go-to person fortech.
Um, even before they were, Iwas allowed to do it on air
behind the scenes.
I was always that tech person.
(26:50):
And even before that, I was thesocial media person.
So the reason I'm bringing thisup is because we're kind of
seeing this with AI.
For people who are willing todive in, and you don't have to
dive in deep.
You can just kind of surfacelevel learn how these tools work
and try some of them out.
And then when you find thething that like that's your
(27:11):
thing, then you can dive in deepto that one thing.
For some people, it's machinelearning, other people, it's
prompting, other people fall inlove with uh robotics or other
people say, hey, I just likeusing this for my creative
projects.
But until you can gain like askill set uh with it, um then
(27:33):
it's it's kind of hard tocompete or to to create a
position that maybe didn't existbefore if you don't try
something new yourself.
unknown (27:41):
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis (27:41):
So I always tell people like, you know, I dove
in.
Were there risks?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, yes.
I'm live streaming behind thescenes.
Any number of things could havegone wrong that could have
resulted in me not being allowedon air anymore.
Right.
And I was not the most popularperson on air when I would do my
(28:05):
live streaming behind thescenes because a lot of the uh,
you know, production, producer,you know, just to kind of
depended on the personality ofthe people that were putting the
show together behind thescenes.
You know, sometimes they werenot as appreciative of the live
streaming aspect.
And I remember a very lengthyconversation with a producer um
(28:29):
years and years and years ago,who was really not on board with
it.
And it sucked so much energyout of me trying to defend the
technology.
Um, all of that played into mydecision to make this pivot.
You know, I think right now somany more people are open to
learning tech and tools, and butthere's still a lot of
(28:50):
resistance to it.
And I really want to put myselfinto positions where I'm around
people who want to figure outhow to use it to better humanity
versus people who are gonna tryto pretend like it doesn't
exist because it does.
Yeah, it does, and it's I'mGreek, right?
So we can talk about this interms of Pandora's box.
(29:11):
You cannot put it back in thebox.
You can't, yeah.
And so um, I think the best wayto approach it is to figure out
how to make sure that it'sbeing used in a positive way so
that every day I go into it aswhat can we do to either protect
people or um to inspire someoneto use it in a way that is
(29:34):
going to make a positive impacton humanity.
And I know it's a big idea, butthat's what I think about.
That's why I'm doing what I'mdoing.
John Neral (29:41):
Yeah, and what I what I love about what you just
shared, and I and I hope thepeople listening are will lean
into this as well, it's that youfound a way to be different.
You found a way to takesomething that interests you and
run with it.
And and run with it within allthe parameters.
And the safety and theguidelines as best as possible.
(30:03):
But it was about how does thismake this experience different?
How do I learn from it?
It's that, it's that learnerpart of you you talked to us
earlier about where that naturalcuriosity comes into play to
see, what do I get to do withthis?
Yes.
So when you look at, when youlook at your your career right
now and specifically focusing onAI and tech, what are some of
(30:28):
the things that are lighting youup in terms of your curiosity
and your learning around AI thatyou want to share with us
today?
Lindsey Mastis (30:36):
Sure.
So I I love things that I cansee, right?
I've I kind of my language isvideo.
So I love things that I candemonstrate and show, show
people.
And the what I notice issometimes you have to kind of do
something that's an attentiongetter in order to open that
door to learning more about thetechnology.
(30:58):
So one of the things I didrecently was turn myself into a
robot using something callednano banana, which, you know,
and it wasn't just this one AIprogram.
It was like nano banana withVO3 with 11 laps.
Like so, I'm so in just doingthat one video, I am improving
my skill set in three differentAI uh areas, uh, you know, the
(31:23):
the audio area, the video area,the prompting area.
Um, so for me that was reallyfun and intriguing.
Um, I've also did a I also dida video um where I turned myself
into like an AI anchor usingVO3.
I'm sorry, VO3.
I always want to say VO becauseI was trying to learn Spanish
(31:43):
for so long.
And every time I see that word,my Spanish comes out.
VO3, which is a Google product.
And um yeah, it was just sointeresting to me to kind of
see, I like I fed it a pictureof myself, and in some cases it
looked like me, and in somecases it didn't.
And and it's such a mysterysometimes as to why one prompt
(32:04):
works great and the next promptis a dud, right?
So it's it's like trial anderror.
So I I love putting those kindsof stories together, but then I
just did a piece of work thatI'm so proud of.
It's called, is AI RuiningMusic?
And it was not something I hadplanned on putting together in
(32:25):
this way.
I went to the largest musicconference in the United States
earlier earlier this year.
I spent three days.
Uh, the conference is calledNAM, which is focused on music
merchants out in LA or Anaheimarea.
And I was able to interviewRoseanne Cash and Jackson Brown
and DJ Cherish the Love, who's afriend of mine, and um Kim
Bullard, who's the keyboardistfor the Elton John band, and a
(32:48):
lot of other people, as well ascompanies.
And what was so interesting iswhen I walked into this, into
this convention hall, I didn'tsee the words AI anywhere.
And I just gotten back fromCES, the consumer electronics
show in Las Vegas, like a weekand a half before.
And so there, AI is everywhere.
Like they're putting AI in likewashing machines, you know,
(33:11):
like it's everywhere.
And I was like, well, why?
What would happen?
Like, what's going on?
How come I don't see it beingused in these music companies?
I'm asking them, you know, areyou including this in your
design?
Are you?
I think I even gave a fewpeople some ideas.
I'm like, had you thought aboutusing it this way?
Oh no, that's a good idea,right?
So very fascinating, but it's abad word in the music industry.
(33:33):
Yeah, right, because right nowwe're seeing AI that can
generate a song in a matter ofseconds.
I write music, I love writingmusic.
Um, I've written over 250songs, and yeah, it it's hard
for me to, you know, feel goodabout knowing that AI can do
(33:55):
something in a matter of secondsthat not just takes me longer,
but I pour my whole self intoall my emotions.
I borrow emotions, right?
Being in TV news for so long,sometimes things impact you.
And the emotions you feel arebased on someone else's tragedy
and songwriting has always beenhow I've kind of worked through
(34:15):
that.
So it, I just became reallyintrigued.
And I ended up, um, I was justgonna do like a little segment
on like, is AI ruining music?
And I started asking peoplethis question right away.
And when I got done witheverything and I went to, I
started putting together likesmaller pieces where I was just
gonna highlight technology.
And I'm like, you know, this isjust not having the impact that
(34:37):
I was hoping it would have.
And I just sat down, I'm like,I think I'm gonna make this into
like a documentary style newsfeature.
So it's still like my news thatI do, my independent
journalism, but let's make thiscoming from a different angle,
more ethical, like ethicsdiscussion type of angle.
And I learned a lot from doingit.
And I just put it out of like alittle over a week ago, had
(35:01):
great reception.
And I just feel so proud aboutit because um, I mean, think
about the definition of ajournalist, right?
Journaling, journalist, you youkind of snapshot a moment of
time.
And this is something that wecan always go back and look at
and say, okay, well, how arethings today?
Like 10 years from now, we canlook back at this and see what
(35:23):
people's concerns were.
Did that come to fruition orwhat happened?
And um, and also to be thinkingabout these big ideas as we
move forward.
Because a lot of like youraudience is thinking of
pivoting, right?
There's a lot of creativepeople who haven't been able to
do their music or their art ortheir writing because a normal
(35:46):
job that we're told we'resupposed to be in might have
taken up all that time andbandwidth.
So as we kind of go into thisnew chapter, how do we want to
present ourselves in the world?
Are we going to be going backto that creative part of
ourselves?
And if so, does AI allow us tobe successful or has it replaced
(36:11):
something that we wished wewould have done earlier?
John Neral (36:14):
That's such a great point because for that
mid-career professional, they'rethey're hearing the term AI,
and it's either bringing up asense of excitement or it's
bringing up a tremendous amountof resentment.
Lindsey Mastis (36:30):
And fear.
John Neral (36:31):
And fear, absolutely.
Is it gonna take away my job?
Am I gonna be replaced?
How am I gonna provide if I nolonger have a job or what do I
do and how do I stay relevantand all of these things?
And to your point, it's alreadyout of the box.
We can't put it back in.
So now what do we do with it?
And and how do we learn to liveand work with it in a way that
(36:55):
that is going to be, to yourpoint earlier, reflective of our
true authentic selves and howwe show up day in and day out to
do the work we're meant to do.
Lindsey Mastis (37:05):
But those that are not trying it at all, I
think once you start to dive in,you'll realize that I don't
believe it's really areplacement for us, especially
at this stage.
I would love it if it couldedit video for me.
I can do it faster and better.
I've tried different AI videoediting programs and I
(37:28):
appreciate some of what they cando, but it does not always make
my job easier.
Um and at the end of the day,you know, when it came down to
the um that mini-styledocumentary feature that I I
edited that all on my own.
And I really didn't use AI forediting.
(37:52):
I knew what I wanted and I knewhow to make it happen.
And I don't think that AI wouldhave been able to do it at this
stage.
Um, so there's room for humans.
I think some of these companiesthat we're seeing that are
trying to replace people withAI, the jobs are just gonna
shift.
You still need a lot of humanintellect.
(38:15):
Um and and human, you know,that so if you're if you're
talking about a mid-careerpivot, you're bringing a lot of
experience to the table.
And even though AI can try toreplicate it, it's not the same.
Right.
I the more I interact with AI,as much as I'm dazzled and I
(38:41):
appreciate it and I I think it'sgreat, the more I realize
sometimes I just need a human tohelp me through.
John Neral (38:49):
Yeah, I have a dear, dear friend and coach colleague
of mine who will always saythat AI is wonderful, but it
will not give you the aha, thatwe need a human for the aha.
Lindsey Mastis (39:00):
Well, and it just depends on what it is,
right?
Because it can also, I can havean emotional response from AI.
For sure.
Yeah, definitely.
It can help me through sometough moments.
You and I have talked aboutthis, uh, grief, for example.
Um, but and I am impressedsometimes when it comes to
customer service.
Sometimes it actually figuresout my problem very well.
(39:23):
But even today, I got on thephone and the AI is telling me
it can do a better job.
Like that, you know, voicerecording, like, I'm gonna do
just as good of a job as ahuman.
I'm like, no, I know in thiscase you're not.
I've I've interacted with AI ona customer service level enough
to know that in this case, Ineed a human.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I got a human, and I wasvery happy to get that human.
But I also realized that in thefuture there might be an
opportunity for AI to haveanswered the question that I
had.
It's just not there yet.
So it's another reason to learnthe tools, learn what it's
lacking, and stay ahead of it.
(40:04):
You know, we we've we haven'tlived in a world where you
could, you know, do one thingyour whole life for a very long
time.
And maybe that was a fallacy.
Maybe we look back and we thinkthat's what happened, but I bet
there were changes along theway.
Even when we talk about theindustrial age and assembly line
work, I mean, there would havebeen a change as different
(40:25):
technologies came along, or hey,we're gonna, you know, this
machine can do this now.
Okay, well, we're gonna shiftpeople over here and do this,
and this is a little morecomplicated that the machine
can't do.
Or this is really complicatedand dangerous for a human.
So we need to come up with amachine so that we're not
putting humans at risk.
So there's there's gonna beways to kind of maneuver around
(40:48):
all of this.
But if there's something youlove to do, don't let AI take
that from you, right?
I love writing music.
I don't care that an AI can doit for me because this is what I
love to do.
And you know what?
It's going to be used inmarketing at some point of
human-made, just like handmade,right?
We we're willing to a lot oftimes, like, yeah, you can go to
(41:12):
the store and buy somethingthat you, you've no idea if it's
handmade or machine made orwhatever.
But when you get somethingthat's handmade, you have a
different emotional experiencewith that item.
So if there's something youlove to do and you want to do it
in a human way, then you cankeep that up, right?
But don't don't just say I'mnot gonna use the tools because
(41:34):
we can't, we I mean, I'd love tolive in a bubble bubble.
I try to live in a bubble, butI I don't live in a bubble.
John Neral (41:41):
Sometimes bubbles are nice.
Lindsey Mastis (41:43):
Bubbles can be great.
Bubble bath.
John Neral (41:45):
Exactly.
Lindsey Mastis (41:46):
Glinda the good witch comes down in a bubble,
saves the day.
Um, you know, there's all kindsof amazing bubbles.
Um, we can try to live in ourbubble for as long as we
possibly can, but um but youmight find that you love it.
And something else I talkabout, people who are afraid of
it, it's usually because they'rehighly ethical people.
And that's who we need to beusing AI tools.
(42:09):
We have enough people withoutethics who are willing to dive
in.
We have um, unfortunately, wehave a lot of scammers that are
willing to use AI tools inhorrible ways.
We need more people whounderstand these tools so that
we can use AI to fight AI,though, so that we can use it
for good.
Um, we need to make sure thatthe people that are using AI are
(42:32):
outnumbering the people thatare using AI for bad.
John Neral (42:35):
Yeah, true.
So, yeah, very, very well said.
And and so much for us to kindof think about and comprehend in
terms of where our relationshipis with AI and what that means
for us moving forward and how weuse it in day-to-day, how we
use it in work, but also to yourpoint, we we use it for good,
(42:57):
right?
We use it, we use it for goodin things that we do.
You and I could keep talkingand and and I I appreciate that
so much about this, but I dowant to just kind of wrap us up
here a little bit.
So, for the people who arelistening who are thinking about
AI and their career, whatadvice would you give them to
(43:19):
help them build their mid-careerGPS?
Lindsey Mastis (43:22):
Do it scared.
I wish I knew who said thatquote, but I think that's what
you have to do.
You know, I mean, there are somany things that cause us fear.
Technology can be overwhelming.
Just thinking about a careerpivot can be it could be so
overwhelming that you can'tmove.
(43:43):
But you have to do it scared.
Do it anyway.
So I keep I kept this quote onmy desktop for probably the
first six months, and then Ineeded to clear off my desktop.
But um, this is a quote fromGeorgia O'Keefe.
It says, I've been absolutelyterrified every moment of my
life, and I've never let it keepme from doing a single thing
(44:03):
that I wanted to do.
So do it scared.
Do it scared.
Yeah, you know, you don't haveto feel ready.
I didn't feel ready.
I definitely didn't feel ready.
I woke up three days after likethree work, you know, work
days.
So I guess it was five days uminto my new life.
(44:27):
Woke up 3 a.m., sat up straightin bed, gasped, and said, What
have I done?
Yeah and I knew that moment wasgoing to come.
I just did not expect it tocome like three days into it.
And after that, I had to justdo things scared.
And since then, I've also donethings while feeling excited,
while feeling optimistic, whilefeeling, you know, so many
(44:50):
different emotions.
But I can't let the fear keepme from walking out my door and
doing something that I do wantto do.
unknown (45:00):
Yeah.
John Neral (45:01):
Yeah.
And that's that's the power ofshowing up in the way that you
do, is to identify who are thepeople you want to help, what do
you want to help them dospecifically, and why is that
work important to you?
And that's such a greatcomponent of building that
mid-career GPS for you and foreverybody who's listening, is to
(45:22):
find that destination to whereyou want to be.
And in referencing that quotefrom Georgia O'Keeffe, do it
scared.
Yes.
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis, thank you somuch for sharing your knowledge,
your story, your expertise withus.
The listeners want to find you,follow you, connect with you,
learn more about all the thingsyou're putting out regarding AI
(45:44):
and tech.
I'm going to turn the mic overto you.
Please tell us all the greatplaces where people can find
you.
Lindsey Mastis (45:49):
Sure.
I'm the only Lindsey Mastis inthe world, or at least I should
be.
John Neral (45:54):
I would agree.
Lindsey Mastis (45:55):
There should be no impostures.
Um, but there's two places tofind me.
I put all of my video work onYouTube.
So just look up Lindsey Mastison YouTube.
I've got all my AI videos upthere.
And then I love to write and Ido a lot of behind the scenes
content on my Substack.
So again, just look up LindseyMastis on Substack.
(46:16):
Those are the two best placesto go.
I'm everywhere, but that'swhere I'm really putting my time
and attention.
And I would love to connectwith you as well.
You know, subscribe to both.
There's always an opportunityto leave messages, to chat.
Um, I have a chat at the bottomof a lot of my Substacks.
(46:36):
Um, same with like leaving acomment on YouTube.
Um, I read those and um I'malways appreciative of seeing
where people are and seeing whatthey're getting out of it
because it's motivation for meto keep going and keep providing
this information to everyone.
unknown (46:52):
Yeah.
John Neral (46:53):
I will make sure your YouTube and Substack are in
the show notes so people canconnect as well.
But Lindsey Mastis, thank youagain for being such a wonderful
guest on the Mid Career GPSpodcast.
Lindsey Mastis (47:05):
And thank you for having me.
And I love talking to you.
Um so we got to do it again.
We have to do this again,absolutely.
John Neral (47:13):
Absolutely.
Well, my friends, if there'sone big takeaway from my
conversation with Lindsey, it'sthis.
As you're looking at AI, you'reusing an AI.
Lindsey's point about findingyour voice and maintaining your
voice and using the tool as youget to explore it is what's most
(47:34):
important right now, right?
AI is a tool.
We learn to use tools in ourwork, in our lives, but do not
let it take away from yourauthentic voice because that is
how you show up in the world.
So until next time, my friends,remember this.
You will build your mid-careerGPS one mile or one step at a
time, and how you show upmatters.
(47:56):
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform.
And if you have a moment, I'dlove to hear your comments on
Apple Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrell.com for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your Mid-Career GPS,or how I can help you and your
(48:20):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at Johnnarrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember, how we show up
matters.
Leaving a job you love to pursue something else is
not for the weak of heart.
In fact, it takes tremendouscourage and resilience to go
after your next advancementopportunity.
So I'm sure you can imagine howmy curiosity was piqued.
While watching our local ABCaffiliate earlier this year, I
(00:20):
was surprised and curious as towhy my guest would leave her
position in TV News to pursue acareer reporting on AI and tech.
See, I met today's guest in2018 at a Wheel of Fortune
contestant audition.
Lindsey Mastis was covering theevent for our local ABC
(00:40):
affiliate, WJLA, and Iintroduced myself to her during
the event and thanked her forher work as a journalist.
Fast forward to a few monthsago when I sent a connection
request to Lindsey on LinkedIn,and here's what I wrote.
Hi, Lindsey.
We met a few years ago at aWheel of Fortune event in
Virginia, and I remember youfrom WJLA.
(01:04):
Professionally, I'd like toconnect and see if you would be
interested in speaking about AIand mid-career on my podcast,
The Mid-Career GPS.
Sincerely, John.
Within a few minutes, Lindseyresponded, sent me a link to
schedule an introductory call,and we connected.
I have truly enjoyed hearingher career story and learning
(01:27):
from her about what's happeningin AI and tech and how it's
impacting the way we work andlive.
And you'll hear that in today'sinterview.
In this episode, you will hearLindsey Mastis' powerful career
story and what led her to stepout of TV news to go out on her
own.
You'll hear her mindset andthought process about what it
(01:49):
took to make that career changeand why you should be curious
about where AI is heading andwhat it means for us personally
and professionally.
Let's get started.
If you're looking for help andsupport navigating your
(02:27):
mid-career journey, I invite youto check out my website for
several resources to help youget the career clarity you need
to build your network and tocrush your next interview.
It's all there for you atjohnner.com forward slash
resources, or you can check theshow notes for a link.
One of the things I love aboutdoing this podcast is talking to
(02:52):
people who are not simplynavigating their mid-career
journey, but they're navigatingit in bold and interesting ways.
And today's guest has done it,and done it in the public
spotlight and out in front forall to follow and learn.
Lindsey Mastis is anaward-winning journalist and an
expert on AI and emergingtechnology.
(03:14):
During her 20-year career intelevision news, she received
four Emmy Awards and is arecipient of a regional Edward
R.
Murrow Award.
She has covered everything frommass shootings to robots on
Capitol Hill.
And she just debuted a minidocumentary-style news feature
called, Is AI Ruining Music?
(03:34):
featuring Roseanne Cash,Jackson Brown, DJ Cherish the
Love, and a host of others.
You can watch it on Lindsey'sYouTube channel and also check
the show notes for a link.
This is a conversation thatwalks you through someone's
decision to leave their job andgo after something they truly
(03:56):
want.
And it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Lindsey Mastis.
Lindsey Mastis, welcome to thepodcast.
Lindsey Mastis (04:05):
Thank you so much for having me.
You're always a blast to talkwith.
So I'm so happy to be here.
John Neral (04:10):
We have a good time.
It would be it would be fun ifthe if the listeners got to hear
our pre-call and what happenedbefore this interview and
everything.
But they're going to get thisin the interview because we're
absolutely going to have a greattime.
I shared a little bit in theintro how we had connected
initially.
And one of the reasons I wantedto have you on the podcast is
you are such a great example ofmaking a huge pivot in
(04:34):
mid-career to pursue what it isthat you want to do.
So would you please share withthe listeners what was your
mid-career moment?
Lindsey Mastis (04:42):
Sure.
So what was really big, ithappened a little bit earlier
this year.
I left TV News after 20 yearsto start my own company.
And it's, I love that we callit a pivot.
Some people are calling itwalking away from it all.
And that's been a veryinteresting experience.
Uh, it's left a lot of peopleconfused.
(05:03):
But I I don't, I have momentsof confusion, but for the most
part, I'm pretty clear on whatI'm trying to accomplish and
where I'm going.
Um, but yeah, it's it was uh itwas one of those things where
until I did it, I didn't knowfor sure that I would.
And so this was almost as muchof a surprise for me.
(05:24):
I know it was a huge surprisefor my colleagues because I
didn't make the decision toleave until the very last
moment.
In TV News, we operate undercontracts.
So I was on the last day that Icould make that decision.
And I went into my newsdirector, whom I adore, and I'm
sitting there and I'm tellingher as if it's a question.
(05:47):
Like, uh, so I think I'm gonnago, like, you know, like stop me
if I'm making a bad decision,you know.
And so um, that was on aFriday, and I think that they
made the announcement that Iwould be leaving on like a
Monday or Tuesday.
So my colleagues had no idea.
Uh, it's it's hard to keepsecrets in newsrooms to quote
(06:09):
the original movie, the paper,not the new one that's coming
out, but the original one.
Uh, the quote is Henry, it's anewsroom, right?
Like, of course, you know, youcan't keep anything secret in a
newsroom.
But um, I remember one of mycolleagues literally uh, you
know, messaged me or said to me,you know, biggest kept secret
(06:31):
of the year.
And it's like I didn't mean forit to be.
It's just that I hadn't made myfinal decision until basically
game time.
John Neral (06:40):
What was it like processing not just your
emotions, but your colleagues,family, friends' emotions of now
that this move, if you will,was finally spoken and
announced?
What was that like for you?
Lindsey Mastis (06:57):
Some of it's a blur.
I think probably the biggestwas with my mom.
So, and I don't remember when Istarted to think this way
exactly.
I I knew that I had done almosteverything I could do in the
position I was in.
And in news, stories change allthe time, but sometimes you
(07:19):
find yourself reporting on thesame stories year after year.
You know, there's annual thingsthat happen.
And I love covering AI and techbecause it was something new
that I could learn.
But I remember there being apoint where I started kind of
raised with my mom, I think thatmaybe I might want to try
something different.
(07:39):
And I remember her having someshock.
I don't know thatdisappointment was the right
word, but I think she was alittle more concerned about me
leaving TV news than I was aboutit.
And my mom is one of the veryfew people I was having a
(07:59):
conversation with about what Iwas planning to do.
And um, I was kind ofunconsciously planning for this.
I and I didn't quite realizeit, I think, until hindsight.
But I started to tell my mom atone point, I need to, I need to
feel what this, you know, Ineed to say it out loud and just
(08:21):
feel what that sounds like.
And so I would kind of trydifferent scenarios on, you
know, with my mom, like I'mgoing to do this, or I'm going
to leave, or I'm going to trysomething different.
I forgot what I exactly said,but just saying it out loud, I
wanted to then, it wasn't justabout saying it out loud.
(08:43):
It was about how do I feel whenI say it out loud?
What's my internal reaction?
Am I kind of smiling when I sayit?
Am I terrified?
Am I crying?
Am I angry?
Am I, you know, and I foundthat when I said it, I had like
a little bit of a smile on myface, just a little hint of
(09:05):
excitement.
John Neral (09:08):
Can you share more with us about some of the things
you found yourself doing orsaying that indicated you were
thinking more seriously aboutleaving your job in TB News?
Lindsey Mastis (09:19):
For the past six years, I've been waking up at
two in the morning and drivingto work and doing hours of live
news, which I love.
Um, but I also had these otherprojects going on.
And out of everything that Idid, I was loving AI and tech.
And I was trying to find ifthere was like a pathway where I
could be doing that more on afull-time basis and not having
(09:42):
to wake up at two in themorning.
And uh unfortunately, like, Imean, I could have probably
stayed in that job forever, butforever at two in the morning,
or another odd shift.
And my body was reallyscreaming at me that it couldn't
do it anymore.
You know, and now if I'm up attwo in the morning, it's because
I stayed up late or am going tocatch a plane to a really cool
(10:05):
place, you know.
But for the most part, I neededto put my health first.
Um, and I never make a decisionbased on one factor.
So there were a lot of things,but that one was a very big one.
And now that I've made thispivot, getting sleep is really
important.
And when I look back on thistime, I realize that I was
preparing myself, even though Ididn't know it.
(10:27):
I had been creating my ownat-home studio, which didn't
really set up a set off anyalarm bells for me because I I
love what I do so much that evenwhen I'm on vacation, I do
stand-ups, which is when thereporter's in front of the
camera and like they didn't goanywhere, but pretty much every
vacation we've been on, I've hadsome type of like idea in my
(10:49):
head where I want to report onthis.
Um, but I started to like getall these materials at home.
And then if you think about um,there was, I guess, like a
study done or something, and andthey said that like if you're
talking to somebody, if you lookdown at your feet or their feet
and your feet are like facingthe door, one of you wants out
(11:09):
of that conversation, right?
It's like wherever your feetare pointing is kind of where
you actually want to go.
So if your feet are like facingthe person you're talking to,
you're really engaged in thatconversation.
If you take a glance down andtheir feet are not, you might be
the only one engaged in thatconversation.
So I kind of look back andrealize I was doing these things
to kind of prepare myself.
(11:30):
It's like my feet were almostlike facing the door and I
didn't know it.
unknown (11:35):
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis (11:35):
And then when the time came, I made a game day
decision.
John Neral (11:42):
So many times on this podcast, I'll talk about or
my guests will come on and talkabout that there's this moment
of clarity that they have interms of making their decision.
And when people go through acareer change or pivot, if you
will, especially if they're ifthey're moving away from
something that they've known for20 years like yourself, that
(12:04):
clarity piece often takes manydifferent shapes, especially as
you move through, if you will,the next or the first year after
making that move.
Given that you made yourannouncement in in January and
you've we're almost at the endof 2025.
It's kind of scary to saybecause we're going to be at the
(12:26):
middle to end of October whenthis drops.
What would you say are some ofthe things that you have learned
about navigating this careertransition that has surprised
you in some ways?
Lindsey Mastis (12:38):
Oh, a lot of it has surprised me.
I wasn't as prepared as Ithought I was.
I thought that I had all theskill set I needed for the next
chapter.
I thought that I had a roadmap.
I thought that my firstbusiness plan was, you know, all
I had to worry about.
I think I've written four atthis point.
(12:59):
Um, you know, because I justkind of shift and change as I go
along.
But what I realized is that Ihad some additional skill set to
learn.
You know, in television news,uh, especially on the side where
you're the one on camera,you're thinking about the
content and the stories.
You're not thinking about thebusiness of news.
And here I am with my owncompany for the first time
(13:22):
having to think about thebusiness of news.
Now, over the course of mycareer, I did get interested in
the business of news and I askeda lot of questions, but there
is a separation between the addepartment and the news
department, the marketingdepartment and the news
department.
Like there's, you know, it'sit's almost siloed a little bit
by design.
(13:43):
And that's so that editorial,you know, to have that editorial
control.
Like we maintain that controlover the stories we plan to
cover.
We don't have advertisementinvolvement in that, you know,
unless it's sponsored content.
But journalists don't dosponsored content.
So, you know, I it's justfascinating because I here I am
(14:03):
thinking to myself, I've got itdown, and then realized, oh,
wait, I had asked questions, butuntil I was in this position, I
didn't know I had to ask thisor that.
So I luckily have been able togo through two different
training courses that havetaught me some of the additional
skill set that I need.
(14:24):
And of course, I'm someone wholoves to learn.
So I have like a list that's amile long on this is what else I
need to learn.
And I have to remind myselfthat that should be throughout
my lifetime, not this week,right?
You can only learn so much dayby day.
Um, so it's really been aninteresting, an interesting year
(14:46):
so far.
I mean, the year's not over.
And in my head, I'm alreadyplanning for 2026.
But I also realize that at anymoment, some amazing opportunity
might pop up and I might say,oh, this is this works great
with what I'm doing with mycompany.
Let's, you know, let's makemagic happen.
Let's partner up, let's trythis.
So I'm very open to that aswell.
(15:08):
But it's, I gotta say, youknow, what I what I thought it
was going to be like this yearis not what it was.
And I think that because I wentinto this with some flexibility
and some open-mindedness, itwas fine.
But I think if I had like aconcrete plan that I wasn't
willing to budge on, I don'tknow that I would feel the way I
(15:31):
feel today.
And I feel pretty good today.
John Neral (15:33):
Yeah.
Well, having followed you for awhile, especially following you
this past year on social mediaand seeing you at events and at
conferences and speaking andputting more content out there,
it definitely seems that youcome across with a lot of um
competence and confidence interms of what you're putting out
(15:57):
there at the same time havingthis fervor for learning and
being like, what else can I,what else can I share with
everybody?
What else can I pick up andshare?
So it's appreciated withoutquestion.
Lindsey Mastis (16:08):
Thank you.
I love to bring people alongfor the ride.
So anytime I'm learning like anew AI skill, for example, I'm
sort of like you, right?
I'm the I'm the viewer.
And when you watch, you'recoming along with me, right?
We're doing this together.
So I might be going through allthe steps to learn a new skill,
(16:28):
but really you're going throughit with me, and you can learn
just as much as I'm learning.
And I think you can see too,sometimes in in what I put out,
um, I show my mistakes, I showmy failures.
I crashed a Blackhawkhelicopter simulation.
I need to point out that it wasa simulation multiple times in
VR.
(16:48):
And I thought I was gonna begood at it because I used to go
up in one of our news chappersand actually handle the camera.
So I thought I'd be pretty goodat controls.
I thought I'd be really great,great in that scenario.
And I mean, I there was no wayaround it.
I was like, you know, most ofthis piece is gonna be me
crashing.
How do I bring the viewersalong so that they're still
(17:08):
learning about what thistechnology can do while also not
ignoring the blatant fact thatI keep landing the thing on its
side or, you know, and it wasfascinating to me to kind of get
to the point where after I wasdone shooting it and I'm sitting
there and putting it togetherand I'm like, how much of this
(17:29):
do I show?
And I'm like, well, you knowwhat?
If I don't show how difficultsome of this is, then I don't
think that people who are kindof interested in AI but afraid
to dive in, they may think, oh,I'll never be able to do that.
Well, guess what?
I'm not really able to do iteither, but I'm figuring it out
and we're and we are learningtogether and we're we're seeing
(17:51):
success, you know, and I thinkthat's really important to show.
And when you talk about like acareer pivot, it's really
important too to let everyoneknow, you know, it's it's not
like a straight line.
It's not like, oh, I had aplan, I followed it, and at the
end was success or a pot ofgold.
It's more like, oh, I didn'tthink of this before.
(18:12):
Yeah, I think I want to dothis.
Or in some cases, it's like, Ithought I wanted to do this, but
I I'm not having fun when I trythis out.
Maybe I want to go in adifferent direction and just
listening to myself, right?
Like I don't, I don't reallyhave a team the way I used to
have a team to bounce theseideas off of, right?
(18:33):
A lot of it's me.
And Chat GPT has been reallygood at letting me bounce ideas
off of it, but it's also like acheerleader who's not gonna tell
you if it's a bad idea.
It's like, great idea, go forit.
Like, uh, I don't, I kind ofdon't think this is a good idea,
Chat GPT.
Oh, you're right, you're right.
It's like it's constantlytelling me I'm right.
(18:55):
So that part's a little bithard.
Um, especially with a 20-yearbackground in TV news.
I'm used to someone sayingthat's a dumb idea.
I mean, they don't say it thatway, but they mean it that way.
And it comes across sometimewhere they're like, no, you're
not doing a story on that.
Are you crazy?
You know, um, and sometimes youpush the envelope, you're like,
actually, you see the visionand you push through and you
(19:16):
have to convince the peoplearound you that this is a great
story.
So I am my biggest champion,and I also have the potential of
being my own worst enemy if Idon't give myself those checks
and balances.
So I found that reallyimportant uh while working solo.
John Neral (19:34):
I appreciate you sharing all of that because for
the mid-career professionalwho's listening, it's so
important for them to hear thatthey're our paths are not
linear, right?
They're gonna have detours andturns and things like that.
And for many who are currentlytrying to find a new job in this
market, they're leaning on someform of AI to help them, be it
(20:00):
optimizing their resume, theirLinkedIn, helping them with
their interview prep, whateverit may be.
And I'm so glad you brought upthis notion, because I've seen
it as well, where Chat GPT getsto be the biggest cheerleader
and everything's great andwonderful and affirming, and
you're like, well, I'm notreally sure that might be the
best way to handle this part ofthe resume or this part of the
(20:23):
LinkedIn.
Right.
Um, for people who maybe do nothave a strong knowledge of how
AI works, or they're using it asa tool that for the sake of our
conversation, let's say, is alittle bit more sophisticated
than a Google search.
What could you what could youshare with that mid-career job
(20:49):
seeker right now who's dabblinga little bit in AI, but not
really sure how they could beusing it?
What would you tell them?
Lindsey Mastis (20:59):
Sure.
So there's going to be twothings I really want to stress.
The first thing has to do withletting AI do things for you.
And when you're talking abouttrying to find a new job or
career path, I think the lastthing you want to do is let AI
determine what that path isgoing to be and also to be your
(21:20):
voice.
You need to maintain yourvoice.
And if anything, you need tofind your voice again.
I think that's reallyimportant.
I mean, I was lucky intelevision news to um, you know,
kind of have some of mypersonality shine through, but
there were a lot of elements ofmy personality I had to hide
because it didn't really fitinto the mold of who people
(21:41):
expected me to be on screen.
So I also have to realize thatwho I am as my authentic self is
what I need to bring to thetable in this new chapter.
So that's what I really want tostress and urge.
It's so easy to go into a ChatGPT, into a Gemini, into a
co-pilot, into any of those LLMsand say, do it for me, write my
(22:04):
resume for me, write this coverletter for me, or what should I
say?
Right.
We're used to taking direction.
But when we're asking how we'regoing to be presented by
someone who's not us, anyone butus, we're not coming through as
our authentic selves.
So I would say it's soimportant to utilize the
(22:26):
technology as a proofreader, assomething to maybe how I use it
is uh I'll bounce ideas off ofit.
I'll say, I've got two ideas.
I was planning to put eitherthis in my resume or that in my
resume.
Should I stress this?
Should I stress that?
I mean, 20 years of uh oftelevision news and all the
(22:48):
places I've lived and adventuresand and tragedies and all kinds
of things that I have uhcovered throughout these two
decades, it doesn't all fit.
And what am I trying to convey,right?
So, what part of myself do Iwant to include in this next
chapter?
And because I focus on AI andtech so much, a lot of the other
(23:08):
news stories that I'm reallyproud of and that are very
impressive, they don't reallyfit into this narrative.
So when I use AI, it's just tokind of help me edit a little
bit more or to make sure I'mbeing true to myself of, hey,
I'm kind of thinking of notmentioning this.
Um, and it'll say, actually,you probably should, right?
That's you.
And you want to find this.
(23:29):
If you're doing a pivot, youwant to find the reason you're
doing the pivot, right?
You have to be honest aboutthat.
Why are you pivoting, right?
It's because you're ready to bemore of yourself.
You know, I mean, I know insome cases people are trying to
chase a bit of a paycheck,things like that, but that'll
come if you're being authenticto yourself.
The second thing I would sayabout AI is dive into the tools.
(23:53):
Do you remember that app calledPeriscope?
John Neral (23:57):
Yes.
Lindsey Mastis (23:58):
Okay.
I I loved Periscope.
And I was just at an event umthis week, and uh pretty much no
one knew what I was talkingabout.
So I only take a moment tomention what Periscope was.
It was an app that did livestreaming video to be you know
in the simplest form, livestreaming vertical video, which
we take for granted now, but itwas very new at the time.
(24:21):
We weren't seeing, you know,people doing Facebook Lives, we
didn't have TikTok, we didn'thave Insta Live.
Um, Instagram was still prettymuch just pictures at that
point.
And we didn't have, I don'tknow, I don't even know that we
had reels and shorts and allthat kind of stuff at that
point.
But with a click of a button, Icould be live.
(24:43):
And uh yeah, I'm on TV, I golive all the time, but this was
without commercial breaks.
This was unstructured that thiscould be for hours and hours at
a time.
People were going live andshowing themselves sleep all
night.
I saw people, I mean, theydidn't show anything, they were
outside the shower curtain, butthey were taking showers while
(25:03):
live, you know, just racking upas many likes and hearts as they
possibly could, because that'show you interacted with it.
And you people could comment onit and you could answer their
questions.
The first time I used it, Ishowed off my refrigerator.
That's what you did on the app.
You're like, show us yourrefrigerator.
I don't know if that wassupposed to be something else,
you know, some other kind ofcontext to that, but people just
(25:25):
were showing off theirrefrigerators at the time.
I hopped on this the first weekit came out.
And the very first time Ilooked at it, I didn't, and I
know you're gonna laugh, butlike I didn't know if the person
who was live streaming couldsee me.
unknown (25:42):
Okay.
Lindsey Mastis (25:44):
You know, like it back when television first
came out, in some cases, peoplethought that they could be seen
through the TV.
I had that moment withPeriscope.
I've soon realized theycouldn't see me, right?
Like I was making sure I wasnot taking my phone in the
bathroom with me or anythinglike that when I was using this
app.
But basically, I um started touse it to show behind the
(26:08):
scenes.
I started to use it while Iplayed my piano.
I started to use it just allthe time.
And even though I was on air, Igot so much better at my craft.
Right.
I I all of a sudden was muchbetter on air and it started to
open doors for me.
So a lot of the positions thatI've had in the last 10 years of
(26:29):
my career were new positionsthat did not exist before.
Um, I was able to in several ina couple of newsrooms, uh,
train newsrooms on touchscreentechnology, right?
I became the go-to person fortech.
Um, even before they were, Iwas allowed to do it on air
behind the scenes.
I was always that tech person.
(26:50):
And even before that, I was thesocial media person.
So the reason I'm bringing thisup is because we're kind of
seeing this with AI.
For people who are willing todive in, and you don't have to
dive in deep.
You can just kind of surfacelevel learn how these tools work
and try some of them out.
And then when you find thething that like that's your
(27:11):
thing, then you can dive in deepto that one thing.
For some people, it's machinelearning, other people, it's
prompting, other people fall inlove with uh robotics or other
people say, hey, I just likeusing this for my creative
projects.
But until you can gain like askill set uh with it, um then
(27:33):
it's it's kind of hard tocompete or to to create a
position that maybe didn't existbefore if you don't try
something new yourself.
unknown (27:41):
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis (27:41):
So I always tell people like, you know, I dove
in.
Were there risks?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, yes.
I'm live streaming behind thescenes.
Any number of things could havegone wrong that could have
resulted in me not being allowedon air anymore.
Right.
And I was not the most popularperson on air when I would do my
(28:05):
live streaming behind thescenes because a lot of the uh,
you know, production, producer,you know, just to kind of
depended on the personality ofthe people that were putting the
show together behind thescenes.
You know, sometimes they werenot as appreciative of the live
streaming aspect.
And I remember a very lengthyconversation with a producer um
(28:29):
years and years and years ago,who was really not on board with
it.
And it sucked so much energyout of me trying to defend the
technology.
Um, all of that played into mydecision to make this pivot.
You know, I think right now somany more people are open to
learning tech and tools, and butthere's still a lot of
(28:50):
resistance to it.
And I really want to put myselfinto positions where I'm around
people who want to figure outhow to use it to better humanity
versus people who are gonna tryto pretend like it doesn't
exist because it does.
Yeah, it does, and it's I'mGreek, right?
So we can talk about this interms of Pandora's box.
(29:11):
You cannot put it back in thebox.
You can't, yeah.
And so um, I think the best wayto approach it is to figure out
how to make sure that it'sbeing used in a positive way so
that every day I go into it aswhat can we do to either protect
people or um to inspire someoneto use it in a way that is
(29:34):
going to make a positive impacton humanity.
And I know it's a big idea, butthat's what I think about.
That's why I'm doing what I'mdoing.
John Neral (29:41):
Yeah, and what I what I love about what you just
shared, and I and I hope thepeople listening are will lean
into this as well, it's that youfound a way to be different.
You found a way to takesomething that interests you and
run with it.
And and run with it within allthe parameters.
And the safety and theguidelines as best as possible.
(30:03):
But it was about how does thismake this experience different?
How do I learn from it?
It's that, it's that learnerpart of you you talked to us
earlier about where that naturalcuriosity comes into play to
see, what do I get to do withthis?
Yes.
So when you look at, when youlook at your your career right
now and specifically focusing onAI and tech, what are some of
(30:28):
the things that are lighting youup in terms of your curiosity
and your learning around AI thatyou want to share with us
today?
Lindsey Mastis (30:36):
Sure.
So I I love things that I cansee, right?
I've I kind of my language isvideo.
So I love things that I candemonstrate and show, show
people.
And the what I notice issometimes you have to kind of do
something that's an attentiongetter in order to open that
door to learning more about thetechnology.
(30:58):
So one of the things I didrecently was turn myself into a
robot using something callednano banana, which, you know,
and it wasn't just this one AIprogram.
It was like nano banana withVO3 with 11 laps.
Like so, I'm so in just doingthat one video, I am improving
my skill set in three differentAI uh areas, uh, you know, the
(31:23):
the audio area, the video area,the prompting area.
Um, so for me that was reallyfun and intriguing.
Um, I've also did a I also dida video um where I turned myself
into like an AI anchor usingVO3.
I'm sorry, VO3.
I always want to say VO becauseI was trying to learn Spanish
(31:43):
for so long.
And every time I see that word,my Spanish comes out.
VO3, which is a Google product.
And um yeah, it was just sointeresting to me to kind of
see, I like I fed it a pictureof myself, and in some cases it
looked like me, and in somecases it didn't.
And and it's such a mysterysometimes as to why one prompt
(32:04):
works great and the next promptis a dud, right?
So it's it's like trial anderror.
So I I love putting those kindsof stories together, but then I
just did a piece of work thatI'm so proud of.
It's called, is AI RuiningMusic?
And it was not something I hadplanned on putting together in
(32:25):
this way.
I went to the largest musicconference in the United States
earlier earlier this year.
I spent three days.
Uh, the conference is calledNAM, which is focused on music
merchants out in LA or Anaheimarea.
And I was able to interviewRoseanne Cash and Jackson Brown
and DJ Cherish the Love, who's afriend of mine, and um Kim
Bullard, who's the keyboardistfor the Elton John band, and a
(32:48):
lot of other people, as well ascompanies.
And what was so interesting iswhen I walked into this, into
this convention hall, I didn'tsee the words AI anywhere.
And I just gotten back fromCES, the consumer electronics
show in Las Vegas, like a weekand a half before.
And so there, AI is everywhere.
Like they're putting AI in likewashing machines, you know,
(33:11):
like it's everywhere.
And I was like, well, why?
What would happen?
Like, what's going on?
How come I don't see it beingused in these music companies?
I'm asking them, you know, areyou including this in your
design?
Are you?
I think I even gave a fewpeople some ideas.
I'm like, had you thought aboutusing it this way?
Oh no, that's a good idea,right?
So very fascinating, but it's abad word in the music industry.
(33:33):
Yeah, right, because right nowwe're seeing AI that can
generate a song in a matter ofseconds.
I write music, I love writingmusic.
Um, I've written over 250songs, and yeah, it it's hard
for me to, you know, feel goodabout knowing that AI can do
(33:55):
something in a matter of secondsthat not just takes me longer,
but I pour my whole self intoall my emotions.
I borrow emotions, right?
Being in TV news for so long,sometimes things impact you.
And the emotions you feel arebased on someone else's tragedy
and songwriting has always beenhow I've kind of worked through
(34:15):
that.
So it, I just became reallyintrigued.
And I ended up, um, I was justgonna do like a little segment
on like, is AI ruining music?
And I started asking peoplethis question right away.
And when I got done witheverything and I went to, I
started putting together likesmaller pieces where I was just
gonna highlight technology.
And I'm like, you know, this isjust not having the impact that
(34:37):
I was hoping it would have.
And I just sat down, I'm like,I think I'm gonna make this into
like a documentary style newsfeature.
So it's still like my news thatI do, my independent
journalism, but let's make thiscoming from a different angle,
more ethical, like ethicsdiscussion type of angle.
And I learned a lot from doingit.
And I just put it out of like alittle over a week ago, had
(35:01):
great reception.
And I just feel so proud aboutit because um, I mean, think
about the definition of ajournalist, right?
Journaling, journalist, you youkind of snapshot a moment of
time.
And this is something that wecan always go back and look at
and say, okay, well, how arethings today?
Like 10 years from now, we canlook back at this and see what
(35:23):
people's concerns were.
Did that come to fruition orwhat happened?
And um, and also to be thinkingabout these big ideas as we
move forward.
Because a lot of like youraudience is thinking of
pivoting, right?
There's a lot of creativepeople who haven't been able to
do their music or their art ortheir writing because a normal
(35:46):
job that we're told we'resupposed to be in might have
taken up all that time andbandwidth.
So as we kind of go into thisnew chapter, how do we want to
present ourselves in the world?
Are we going to be going backto that creative part of
ourselves?
And if so, does AI allow us tobe successful or has it replaced
(36:11):
something that we wished wewould have done earlier?
John Neral (36:14):
That's such a great point because for that
mid-career professional, they'rethey're hearing the term AI,
and it's either bringing up asense of excitement or it's
bringing up a tremendous amountof resentment.
Lindsey Mastis (36:30):
And fear.
John Neral (36:31):
And fear, absolutely.
Is it gonna take away my job?
Am I gonna be replaced?
How am I gonna provide if I nolonger have a job or what do I
do and how do I stay relevantand all of these things?
And to your point, it's alreadyout of the box.
We can't put it back in.
So now what do we do with it?
And and how do we learn to liveand work with it in a way that
(36:55):
that is going to be, to yourpoint earlier, reflective of our
true authentic selves and howwe show up day in and day out to
do the work we're meant to do.
Lindsey Mastis (37:05):
But those that are not trying it at all, I
think once you start to dive in,you'll realize that I don't
believe it's really areplacement for us, especially
at this stage.
I would love it if it couldedit video for me.
I can do it faster and better.
I've tried different AI videoediting programs and I
(37:28):
appreciate some of what they cando, but it does not always make
my job easier.
Um and at the end of the day,you know, when it came down to
the um that mini-styledocumentary feature that I I
edited that all on my own.
And I really didn't use AI forediting.
(37:52):
I knew what I wanted and I knewhow to make it happen.
And I don't think that AI wouldhave been able to do it at this
stage.
Um, so there's room for humans.
I think some of these companiesthat we're seeing that are
trying to replace people withAI, the jobs are just gonna
shift.
You still need a lot of humanintellect.
(38:15):
Um and and human, you know,that so if you're if you're
talking about a mid-careerpivot, you're bringing a lot of
experience to the table.
And even though AI can try toreplicate it, it's not the same.
Right.
I the more I interact with AI,as much as I'm dazzled and I
(38:41):
appreciate it and I I think it'sgreat, the more I realize
sometimes I just need a human tohelp me through.
John Neral (38:49):
Yeah, I have a dear, dear friend and coach colleague
of mine who will always saythat AI is wonderful, but it
will not give you the aha, thatwe need a human for the aha.
Lindsey Mastis (39:00):
Well, and it just depends on what it is,
right?
Because it can also, I can havean emotional response from AI.
For sure.
Yeah, definitely.
It can help me through sometough moments.
You and I have talked aboutthis, uh, grief, for example.
Um, but and I am impressedsometimes when it comes to
customer service.
Sometimes it actually figuresout my problem very well.
(39:23):
But even today, I got on thephone and the AI is telling me
it can do a better job.
Like that, you know, voicerecording, like, I'm gonna do
just as good of a job as ahuman.
I'm like, no, I know in thiscase you're not.
I've I've interacted with AI ona customer service level enough
to know that in this case, Ineed a human.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I got a human, and I wasvery happy to get that human.
But I also realized that in thefuture there might be an
opportunity for AI to haveanswered the question that I
had.
It's just not there yet.
So it's another reason to learnthe tools, learn what it's
lacking, and stay ahead of it.
(40:04):
You know, we we've we haven'tlived in a world where you
could, you know, do one thingyour whole life for a very long
time.
And maybe that was a fallacy.
Maybe we look back and we thinkthat's what happened, but I bet
there were changes along theway.
Even when we talk about theindustrial age and assembly line
work, I mean, there would havebeen a change as different
(40:25):
technologies came along, or hey,we're gonna, you know, this
machine can do this now.
Okay, well, we're gonna shiftpeople over here and do this,
and this is a little morecomplicated that the machine
can't do.
Or this is really complicatedand dangerous for a human.
So we need to come up with amachine so that we're not
putting humans at risk.
So there's there's gonna beways to kind of maneuver around
(40:48):
all of this.
But if there's something youlove to do, don't let AI take
that from you, right?
I love writing music.
I don't care that an AI can doit for me because this is what I
love to do.
And you know what?
It's going to be used inmarketing at some point of
human-made, just like handmade,right?
We we're willing to a lot oftimes, like, yeah, you can go to
(41:12):
the store and buy somethingthat you, you've no idea if it's
handmade or machine made orwhatever.
But when you get somethingthat's handmade, you have a
different emotional experiencewith that item.
So if there's something youlove to do and you want to do it
in a human way, then you cankeep that up, right?
But don't don't just say I'mnot gonna use the tools because
(41:34):
we can't, we I mean, I'd love tolive in a bubble bubble.
I try to live in a bubble, butI I don't live in a bubble.
John Neral (41:41):
Sometimes bubbles are nice.
Lindsey Mastis (41:43):
Bubbles can be great.
Bubble bath.
John Neral (41:45):
Exactly.
Lindsey Mastis (41:46):
Glinda the good witch comes down in a bubble,
saves the day.
Um, you know, there's all kindsof amazing bubbles.
Um, we can try to live in ourbubble for as long as we
possibly can, but um but youmight find that you love it.
And something else I talkabout, people who are afraid of
it, it's usually because they'rehighly ethical people.
And that's who we need to beusing AI tools.
(42:09):
We have enough people withoutethics who are willing to dive
in.
We have um, unfortunately, wehave a lot of scammers that are
willing to use AI tools inhorrible ways.
We need more people whounderstand these tools so that
we can use AI to fight AI,though, so that we can use it
for good.
Um, we need to make sure thatthe people that are using AI are
(42:32):
outnumbering the people thatare using AI for bad.
John Neral (42:35):
Yeah, true.
So, yeah, very, very well said.
And and so much for us to kindof think about and comprehend in
terms of where our relationshipis with AI and what that means
for us moving forward and how weuse it in day-to-day, how we
use it in work, but also to yourpoint, we we use it for good,
(42:57):
right?
We use it, we use it for goodin things that we do.
You and I could keep talkingand and and I I appreciate that
so much about this, but I dowant to just kind of wrap us up
here a little bit.
So, for the people who arelistening who are thinking about
AI and their career, whatadvice would you give them to
(43:19):
help them build their mid-careerGPS?
Lindsey Mastis (43:22):
Do it scared.
I wish I knew who said thatquote, but I think that's what
you have to do.
You know, I mean, there are somany things that cause us fear.
Technology can be overwhelming.
Just thinking about a careerpivot can be it could be so
overwhelming that you can'tmove.
(43:43):
But you have to do it scared.
Do it anyway.
So I keep I kept this quote onmy desktop for probably the
first six months, and then Ineeded to clear off my desktop.
But um, this is a quote fromGeorgia O'Keefe.
It says, I've been absolutelyterrified every moment of my
life, and I've never let it keepme from doing a single thing
(44:03):
that I wanted to do.
So do it scared.
Do it scared.
Yeah, you know, you don't haveto feel ready.
I didn't feel ready.
I definitely didn't feel ready.
I woke up three days after likethree work, you know, work
days.
So I guess it was five days uminto my new life.
(44:27):
Woke up 3 a.m., sat up straightin bed, gasped, and said, What
have I done?
Yeah and I knew that moment wasgoing to come.
I just did not expect it tocome like three days into it.
And after that, I had to justdo things scared.
And since then, I've also donethings while feeling excited,
while feeling optimistic, whilefeeling, you know, so many
(44:50):
different emotions.
But I can't let the fear keepme from walking out my door and
doing something that I do wantto do.
unknown (45:00):
Yeah.
John Neral (45:01):
Yeah.
And that's that's the power ofshowing up in the way that you
do, is to identify who are thepeople you want to help, what do
you want to help them dospecifically, and why is that
work important to you?
And that's such a greatcomponent of building that
mid-career GPS for you and foreverybody who's listening, is to
(45:22):
find that destination to whereyou want to be.
And in referencing that quotefrom Georgia O'Keeffe, do it
scared.
Yes.
Yeah.
Lindsey Mastis, thank you somuch for sharing your knowledge,
your story, your expertise withus.
The listeners want to find you,follow you, connect with you,
learn more about all the thingsyou're putting out regarding AI
(45:44):
and tech.
I'm going to turn the mic overto you.
Please tell us all the greatplaces where people can find
you.
Lindsey Mastis (45:49):
Sure.
I'm the only Lindsey Mastis inthe world, or at least I should
be.
John Neral (45:54):
I would agree.
Lindsey Mastis (45:55):
There should be no impostures.
Um, but there's two places tofind me.
I put all of my video work onYouTube.
So just look up Lindsey Mastison YouTube.
I've got all my AI videos upthere.
And then I love to write and Ido a lot of behind the scenes
content on my Substack.
So again, just look up LindseyMastis on Substack.
(46:16):
Those are the two best placesto go.
I'm everywhere, but that'swhere I'm really putting my time
and attention.
And I would love to connectwith you as well.
You know, subscribe to both.
There's always an opportunityto leave messages, to chat.
Um, I have a chat at the bottomof a lot of my Substacks.
(46:36):
Um, same with like leaving acomment on YouTube.
Um, I read those and um I'malways appreciative of seeing
where people are and seeing whatthey're getting out of it
because it's motivation for meto keep going and keep providing
this information to everyone.
unknown (46:52):
Yeah.
John Neral (46:53):
I will make sure your YouTube and Substack are in
the show notes so people canconnect as well.
But Lindsey Mastis, thank youagain for being such a wonderful
guest on the Mid Career GPSpodcast.
Lindsey Mastis (47:05):
And thank you for having me.
And I love talking to you.
Um so we got to do it again.
We have to do this again,absolutely.
John Neral (47:13):
Absolutely.
Well, my friends, if there'sone big takeaway from my
conversation with Lindsey, it'sthis.
As you're looking at AI, you'reusing an AI.
Lindsey's point about findingyour voice and maintaining your
voice and using the tool as youget to explore it is what's most
(47:34):
important right now, right?
AI is a tool.
We learn to use tools in ourwork, in our lives, but do not
let it take away from yourauthentic voice because that is
how you show up in the world.
So until next time, my friends,remember this.
You will build your mid-careerGPS one mile or one step at a
time, and how you show upmatters.
(47:56):
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform.
And if you have a moment, I'dlove to hear your comments on
Apple Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrell.com for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your Mid-Career GPS,or how I can help you and your
(48:20):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at Johnnarrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember, how we show up
matters.
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