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November 9, 2023 21 mins

Does anything mean anything? If so, how do we know? And if all we have are words to define other words, what is the origin of language itself? Poet Amir Sulaiman and rapper Brother Ali are back with Mo and AZ to discuss the origins of the universe, language evolution, and, well, everything. 


Guests: Amir Sulaiman, Brother Ali


ORIGINAL AUDIO PRODUCTION, MUSIC & SOUND DESIGN BY SALT


Executive Produced by Mo Amer, Azhar Usman, Noah Gersh, Jamie Schefman, Nick Panama, Kenzi Wilbur


Head of Creative: Jordan Galvan 


Head of Production: Liz LeMay


Head of Post Production: Robert Adler


Producers: Imran Ali Malik & Aaron Kennedy 


Supervising Producers: Allie Strobel & Alice Bearn


Post Production Supervisor: Aly Honoré


Post Production Coordinator: Jax Raffle 




Edited by: Geoffrey Mutchnik and Aaron Kennedy 


Sound Design and Music by: Matthew Chilelli


Mixed by: Aaron Kennedy 


Recorded by Aaron Kennedy, Zack Djurich and Mario Borgatta 


Guest Booking by Drive Entertainment and Hager Eldaas




Additional music courtesy of Extreme Music.


Joking Not Joking is a Luminary Original, and a co-production between SALT, Legally Homeless, Inc., and Numinous Company, Inc.

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