Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good evening
everybody.
Welcome to another edition ofthe Jordan and Kristen Ricochet
show.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Tonight's topic is going to beabout politics in the church.
Is it appropriate?
Should it be there?
What should we do about it?
Who knows?
That's what we're going to talkabout.
Before we do that, kristen, whydon't you pray for everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, thank you,
jesus, thank you that you are
the author and perfecter of ourfaith.
God, we look to you foreverything we need, because you
have the whole world in yourhands.
Lord, you have the biggestproblem, but you have the
tiniest, tiniest detail.
Thank you, lord, that you arebig enough to just fill this
(00:34):
whole world, lord, with yourlove, but you're also so
intimate that you care abouteach and every one of us.
Lord, we honor you and wepraise you in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Amen, alright, so
tonight's topic is going to be
politics in the church.
I can't think of anything thatcould possibly be more divisive
during this Christmas season.
We already did, you know,dealing with family dynamics.
This is part of that, but youknow, actually the inspiration
behind this, kristen, is.
When I was researching for theepisodes we did on the decline
of the church, one of thereasons that came up that people
(01:04):
were giving for why they don'tgo to church is because they
think it's become toopoliticized.
In particular, I saw peoplecomplaining that even Jalisco
Christianity has become tooassociated with Republican slash
conservatism, slash Trumpism,and I wanted to get, first of
all, your take on that.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, you know, it's
funny I think it's kind of like
an interesting thing how we'vebeen going on this theme of what
we had talked about last week,of the declining church.
There's a lot of gray areas anda lot of things where it's a
yes or no question and theanswer is yes, both.
In other words, is politics apart of church?
Well, we know that Jesus wasneither a Democrat nor a
(01:45):
Republican and we should followhim and his statutes and we
should go after him and notfocus on politics.
However, at the same time, alot of political agendas and
political whether it's, you know, moral issues are buried in
politics, and so we have to takea stand for those moral issues,
(02:05):
and so it's neither we shouldnot say, in other words, no,
we're not going to be involvedin politics at all, but we also
shouldn't put the whole focus onpolitics.
That's kind of my take, and Iknow that's really vague and
kind of I just like contradictedmyself, but that's kind of how
I feel about the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, you know, it's
easy to say Jesus wasn't a
Republican or Democrat and Isuppose that's true because
those things didn't exist backthen but he was first of all
very much a divisive figure.
He was the most divisive figure, probably the ever worked
walked the face of the earth.
He managed both to upset thereligious authorities and the
political authorities, whothemselves hated each other.
(02:44):
You know, people think thatJesus came to unite the world
and everything.
He was very clear and what hesaid is you think I've come here
to unite people?
I have come here with a swordin my hand to make war with our
enemies.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, you gotta think
about, like when he overturned
the tables.
You know that's a right toanger.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
That wasn't a
political act.
But my point is I thinksomething that you said is right
that I also don't think Jesuswould sit on the sidelines when
it comes to the various issuesthat make up our political
landscape.
And this idea that Jesus wasjust one of these people who,
you know, he was kind of thisairhead hippie who, just you
know, wanted to love everybodyand judge nobody and therefore,
(03:22):
you know, wouldn't really take astand on any of the important
issues.
Or if he would, for some reason, it's always on, it's always
the opposite of what he wouldobviously stand for.
I mean, you see people sayingwell, the Christian thing to do
is, you know, to supportabortion.
Like, if you want to supportabortion, make a better argument
than that, don't try to co-opta faith.
That clearly is antithetical towhat you're arguing.
(03:43):
So I think what you're sayingis right, kristen, that Jesus,
though he was not himselfpolitical, nevertheless did tell
us what he expected of us, howbest to live our lives.
That has implications andunfortunately, politics is such
a big part of our lives now thatthey can't help but intersect.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Absolutely.
You know we talk about how we,of course we love everyone, but
we don't, you know, we don't saythat the sin is great.
Right, because we love people.
We make sure that they knowthat what is right from wrong
for their sake, because we lovethem and their souls.
And I feel like the same thingwith politics.
We're not.
(04:22):
I have a lot of friends who areliberal and so I'm not into
getting into heated debates backand forth and telling them why
they're wrong, because First ofall, they just don't listen.
But it's not going to get meanywhere.
But at the same time, I amgoing to take a stand and for
people, when appropriate andwhen the Holy Spirit prompts me
to know where I stand,especially in church, I think
(04:44):
about taking a stand.
If you hadn't taken a stand onFacebook that one time, we never
would have met or gottentogether.
You took a stand foranti-abortion on someone's post
and my mom saw that and was soimpressed by you and that's how
I came to know you.
So it's so important to take astand.
And, of course, my dad beinginvolved in politics, I remember
(05:07):
when someone was running foroffice who was a godly man and
telling people in our church howimportant it was to vote for
this man because he was a godlyman and stood for godly things.
And I couldn't believe how manypeople in this particular
church that I attended were forwe're not just saying Democrat,
(05:30):
republican they out and out saidthat they were for abortion.
I just I can't believe thatLike I just it doesn't compute.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, here's the
thing if the church as a
community is not going toinvolve itself in politics,
that's going to leave a terriblevacuum that's going to be
filled by anti-Christian things,and so this is sort of you
don't really have much of achoice.
Okay, you can either involveyourself in politics as a member
of the church or you know thatwhich is antithetical to the
(06:02):
church is going to involveitself.
So it's not.
It's not like.
You know, if you stay in thesidelines, there's no harm to it
, all right.
But I think we also need tomake a distinction between the
church as a community versus thechurch as an institution.
You know, what should, whatshould the Sunday services be?
If the Sunday services arefocusing more on a politician
than they are on Christ, thenyou have a serious problem there
(06:25):
.
Okay, you know, it's one thingto talk about issues and how we
should conduct ourselves andinform ourselves of the various
issues, and inform ourselveseven of what the different
parties and politicians standfor and things like that.
But you know, if you're goingto a church and your church is
talking more about Joe Biden orDonald Trump they're talking
(06:45):
about Jesus Christ then you havea real problem.
Now I hear what people aresaying when they say well, you
know, I feel alienated by thischurch or that church because it
becomes too political.
You have to be careful becausechurches, to be effective,
sometimes can't be afraid totalk about important things,
knowing full well that somepeople might get upset about it.
(07:07):
You can do it in love, butsometimes you just have to say
things because it's the rightthing to say.
But you know, I can't think ofany issue that was relevant
during Jesus' time or duringPaul's time afterwards that they
shied away from.
I mean any issue that you canthink of that was relevant in
that day, right, and Jesus wasquestioned by political leaders
on political things andreligious leaders on religious
(07:28):
things.
He didn't once back down fromanything, right.
And so it's odd that we shouldbe—the Church of Christ had the
legacy of Jesus Christ and yetwe're not involving ourselves—
we're afraid to involveourselves in the issues of today
because, heaven forbid, weoffend somebody.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
You know, I'll take
it even a step further.
When you said you're absolutelyright about us not getting too
much into the person, butknowing if someone's standing
for godly principles, it's ano-brainer that we should vote
for them, because it's moreabout the principles we're
talking about.
Because even you take theirpreachers and different men and
women of God that I just readtheir stuff and I'm like, wow,
(08:04):
that's amazing, but—and theywould say this about themselves
you have to be careful not toidolize that person.
Like you don't want to just gofor the person, you want to go
for God and always be testingthe spirits, always be testing
what someone's saying—testingwhat we're saying right now.
Right, so it's important to goafter God and not hold up that
person, because no person isperfect.
(08:25):
Number one, but number two, ittakes the focus off of God.
But instead we do want to makea stand.
You know that's sort of likethe same thing like boycotting
things.
You know, with political issues, like when you're boycotting
something, sometimes it isabout—that is the stand you take
, but other times you want to bethe presence in the room there,
so to speak, to be theinfluence instead of—instead of
(08:48):
not taking a stand on any issueand just not, you know, just
backing out completely.
We need to be involved, I think, in politics, and I think the
best way to do that is theactual issue themselves, versus
just following a person.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Well, yeah, following
a person or following a party,
or I would say even elevatingpolitics itself above godliness,
is you run into idolatry.
First of all, people are alwaysgoing to let you down, and
these people who treatpoliticians like they are the
Savior, they are, you know, thechosen one, they're the next
Messiah.
You know, if you've put allyour faith in a person, you are
(09:25):
always going to be disappointed.
Okay.
And if you put all your faithin a political party, I mean, I
don't need to go off on whatpoliticians are, but the bottom
line is you know they are notJesus Christ.
And so what you really have todo in all of these things is you
focus on what Jesus said.
What did Jesus say?
He said you know a tree by thefruit of bears.
He said Be as innocent as doves, but be wise as serpents.
(09:46):
And so what he's saying is it'syour responsibility.
It's your responsibility toassess what you see and to
assess it wisely, but also tostay innocent of these things.
Okay.
Also, to stay focused on Christ,to stay focused on being the
best person you can do.
When I, when I, evaluate bestperson you can do, best person
you can be pardon me when Ievaluate a political issue or a
(10:07):
person, I'm asking myself doesthis person manifest the fruits
of the Spirit?
Love, joy, peace, patience,kindness, goodness, faithfulness
, gentleness, self-controlthat's what I'm looking for in
somebody and that's the lens Iuse to to evaluate any person or
any any political initiative.
I think one of the problems wehave in the church sometimes is
pastors themselves sometimes aretoo enamored with politics.
(10:29):
They kind of get tempted by bythat sirens call and they step
outside of their anointing whichis to preach the word of God,
and then they start talking toomuch about politics which they
are not as informed on.
Okay, and then when thathappens, then you kind of have
the worst of both worlds.
You're getting bad politicaladvice and you're you're
straying away from fromgodliness.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Oh, are we getting
off on the sermons again, jordan
?
Well, no, I'm just saying no, Ihope to see.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
It's important.
It's important to speak aboutissues, but it's also important
to inform yourself of it, and ifyour idea of informing yourself
is, you know, reading aWikipedia article for three
minutes or or just the headlinesin newspaper, then you're doing
everyone to service.
It's something that has to bestudied and has to be kept up
with.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I see the
opposite in some churches.
They don't want thedivisiveness that we talked
about, and so they shy away fromit completely and say, you know
, jesus is not.
We love everyone, so let's not,you know, take a stand in
politics, because we don't wantpeople to think we are some
crazy people over here.
We want people to know howwe're loving, and, yes, we want
(11:32):
them to know we're loving, butwe also want people to know what
we stand for, and we can dothat in a loving way through the
Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, All right,
sweetie, Good job.
So in the last 20 seconds canyou praise up please?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yes, well, merry
Christmas everyone, first of all
, and we pray in Jesus' namethat all of us, lord, keep the
focus on you this Christmasseason, Lord, and that we go
after you and use this time toreally follow your heart and
hear you and get what you wantus to hear in the whisper, lord,
and just grow closer to you inevery single way, in Jesus' name
(12:03):
, amen.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, hopefully we
didn't lose too many of our
listeners.
Slash viewers from that one?
I don't think so.
Don't have enough as it is.
So you know any any smalladjustments are a problem.
All right, guys listen.
Thanks for joining us.
Have a Merry, merry Christmasand a Happy New Year.
We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Merry Christmas
everyone.