April 20, 2025 • 49 mins
When it comes to navigating relationships, we often fall into the trap of focusing on what others should change rather than examining our own patterns. Therapist & 6/2 emotional MG, Jordanne Sculler challenges this mindset with her refreshingly direct approach to therapy that prioritizes accountability and self-awareness.
Jordanne shares the powerful moment that transformed her career trajectory, explaining why she believes the most effective therapy happens when we're willing to look in the mirror rather than point fingers. She unpacks the delicate balance between taking responsibility for our part in relationship dynamics and recognizing when our efforts aren't being matched by others.
"We cannot change anyone else," Jordanne emphasizes, offering instead a transformative question that can shift our entire perspective: "Will I be okay if this relationship doesn't work out?" The answer, she notes, is almost always yes – a simple but profound realization that can free us from staying in uncomfortable situations simply because they're familiar.
The conversation explores how making small changes in our typical responses – doing something different – can dramatically alter relationship patterns that have felt stuck for years. Jordanne explains why learning to sit with discomfort is essential for growth, and how developing this skill in safe contexts prepares us for more challenging moments in our key relationships.
Whether you're struggling with setting boundaries, feeling unsatisfied in a relationship, or simply wanting to understand yourself better, Jordanne's practical wisdom offers a roadmap to greater self-awareness and more fulfilling connections. Her parting message sums up her approach perfectly: "Do something different" – an invitation to take that first step toward positive change today.
Connect with Jordanne https://www.jordannescullerlmhc.com/ or on IG @jordannesculler
Let's connect on social media! You can find me @ _journeytowell
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well.
So today is one of my favoritedays because we get to talk to a
therapist and you know, that Ilove all things therapy, all
things relationships.
So today I'm joined with JordanScholar.
She's a licensed therapist,relationship expert, also a 6'2
(00:25):
emotional mani-gen, so you knowwe'll throw in some human design
in there.
It is so good to have you onthe podcast, jordan.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I am so happy to be here.
Thank you so much for having me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So I would love for you to kind of introduce
yourself.
What brought you to where youare today?
Maybe your pre-therapy journey?
And then how?
How you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Definitely, definitely.
So I always knew I wanted to bea therapist, but I totally
thought it was going to be asecond career path for me.
For whatever reason, I was likeI am going to do this after I
have kids, you know, maybe whenmy kids are in college.
I just always saw it as a laterin life passion of mine.
(01:10):
And after graduating fromcollege I worked in marketing
for about a year and then I wentthrough a little bit of a
traumatic experience with myfamily and after going through
that, I had this moment where Isaid my family, and after going
through that, I had this momentwhere I said I need to do it now
.
I need to do what I know willfulfill me in the way that, um,
(01:36):
I had so clearly pictured formyself in the future.
So pretty instantly I quit myjob and I started figuring out
what it was going to take to getinto school.
Um, and the rest is history.
I started my program, beganworking as a therapist and I
started my own private practicethree years ago.
So it has been a journey, butit has been a wonderful journey.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I love that you always wanted to be a therapist.
I feel like I've not heard thatbefore, so I really love that.
It's such a passion of yours.
I think that's what makes agood therapist is someone that
actually loves what they'redoing and is really passionate
about helping people andrelationships.
So I'm curious what is your?
(02:19):
Do you do couples therapy?
Mostly one-on-ones.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Both.
I definitely do both and I loveboth work.
It's so interesting howdifferent couples therapy versus
individual therapy can be, andI always say that the strongest
couples therapy work happenswhen both individuals in the
couple are in their ownindividual work as well.
(02:43):
So obviously that takes a wholelot, but the most successful
and productive couples workhappens when individuals are
able to really look atthemselves in the mirror, which
obviously can be done more so inindividual work.
So I think it's that beautifulcombo that makes for successful
couples work, and I absolutelylove working with individuals as
(03:06):
well.
I'm definitely a bit of achallenging therapist, so when I
say that, especially withindividuals, I really provide a
lot of pushback and challenge sothat we have this ability to
look at ourselves in the mirrorand look at where am I coming
into play here, rather thanpointing fingers at the people
(03:28):
around us.
I think it's so, so, soimportant in therapy to be able
to look at your own agency.
That way we can really createthese little shifts moving
forward that help us live thelife that we want to be living,
I think one of the things thatwe want to be living.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think one of the things, one of the questions
that I get or I hear, not that Iget, get them personally a lot,
but I hear kind of floatingaround when people are
considering therapy is how do Iknow who is a good therapist for
me?
And I would love your input onthis and you to answer the
question.
But one of the things that Ialways say is know what kind of
(04:05):
therapist you want, becausethere's some therapists that are
more affirming and maybenurturing kind of like.
I'm imagining more that likefeminine or masculine energy,
not the male or female therapist, but more maybe more affirming
and and nurturing and kind ofjust agreeing with what you're
(04:25):
saying and listening to you.
And then there's therapiststhat are really here to
challenge you and really here tohelp you see a different
perspective, which I think isone of the biggest benefits of
therapy.
But I'm curious, yeah, if youwould answer that question.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you.
Right, there's different,there's different types of
therapists, and I thinksomething that's so important to
think about is what type oftherapist is right for you at
different points of your life,right, cause that can change.
At some points you might needthat more validating, affirming
therapist who's just kind ofcoddling, maybe a little bit
more nurturing, and at otherpoints you might really need
(05:03):
that push, that challenge.
The other thing that I think isso imperative in picking a
therapist is it's so simple, butthe vibe that you get right,
how you and your therapist vibetogether, has a huge, a huge
importance in the success of thework.
(05:25):
And when I say success, Ireally just mean in your
willingness to be there and todo the work.
So the relationship you havewith your therapist, where you
can feel really heard andunderstood and safe, goes off of
the vibe.
That's really where that starts.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So I would say just having that as like this basic,
simple rule is also a reallyhelpful tool in finding the
right therapist for you and, Ithink, not being afraid of
(06:02):
trying a couple ones, becauseall of my friends that I talk to
they're always just like yeah,I just kind of started with the
first one because I didn't knowthat I could therapist shop.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, Whenever I have a consultation with someone, I
always encourage them or I guessI'm always pleased when I hear
they're shopping around, becausethat means they're really have
this willingness to want to dothe work with the right
therapist for them and they'renot just willing to settle and
if it doesn't feel right, moveon.
Right, it's okay, it's reallyokay to do that.
And your therapist, I promiseyou will understand.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah kind of like friendships, right whenever
we're trying to.
If you meet a new person andyou don't vibe with them and
you're like, okay, we're justnot going to hang out anymore,
and then you meet that personthat you really love hanging out
with and spending time with,makes sense to me not everyone
can be a match.
Yeah, yeah, not ever.
Yeah, not everyone is going toUm.
So let's dive into that.
(06:49):
Uh, more assertive, moreassertive way of approaching
therapy and having a therapistlike yourself.
I'm curious, first of all, whythat is your specific approach.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That's a great question, um.
I had a therapist um whochallenged me and it was
something I was so unpreparedfor.
This was years ago this wasbefore I was a therapist, um but
it was such moving work that attimes I couldn't even handle.
In fact, I walked away from itat a time and then, I believe it
was like six months to a yearlater, I had this epiphany and I
(07:35):
was like I need to go back tothis therapist, I'm ready for it
, I get it now and my lifecompletely changed.
I think it's really when atherapist has the ability to
help you realize how muchcontrol you have in the changes
you can make in your life thatreal impact can be made.
(07:56):
So there's, of course, animportance of listening and
hearing, you know, becausethere's a difference between
listening and hearing but doingcause.
There's a difference betweenlistening and hearing, but doing
both of those things as atherapist and supporting.
But I think that there's somuch more that can be done than
just that.
So, for me, I let my clientsknow that from the start this is
(08:20):
how the work is going to bedone and, you know, I want them
to be a very active participantin the way that work happens and
unfolds.
So I definitely put it outthere from the start.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I.
It's honestly such a differentapproach, because I've worked
with multiple therapists overthe years and I've never had
anyone approach me that way andI've never really felt like my
therapists have pushed me a ton,which I love.
That you're pointing out twicenow that you have to be ready
(08:57):
for it and you have to feel thatthat it's like a aligned part
of your story right now, becauseI think that we're not always
we're not always ready for it,but I love that you have this
approach and focusing onboundaries.
One of the things that I'm kindof curious about is when, when
(09:18):
we're talking in terms oflooking at ourselves in the
mirror, right, takingaccountability, there's a
balance, because I've definitelywitnessed where and this is
just my personal opinion I meanit's, it is what it is, but
where I felt like maybe one ofmy friends was taking so much
(09:40):
accountability and doing so muchwork and their partner just
wasn't, and it's like I'mconstantly looking at the mirror
, constantly looking at themirror, which may not be the
norm, but my audience.
I know that there's people outthere that are very accountable
and take great responsibilityfor their actions and do take
time in self-reflection Not thatwe can't do more sometimes or,
(10:03):
like you know, see differentperspectives but I am curious if
we can touch on that balanceand how do we know that we're
finding that balance of?
Okay, I'm really looking atmyself in the mirror and looking
at the role that I'm taking inthis, let's say, relationship,
because we're kind of talkingabout relationships,
(10:26):
relationship, because we're kindof talking about relationships.
I'm looking at the role thatI'm playing in this relationship
and there's always newperspectives that I can see, but
to what extent am I looking andthe other person is not doing?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
any work.
Yeah Well, first of all, thatsounds incredibly frustrating.
Right To be doing self-workalongside someone who isn't
willing to look at themselves,something that should be checked
on for sure.
But yes, that sounds incrediblyfrustrating and I think if
(10:57):
you're doing that self-work tolook in the mirror and being
aware of your part in everythingand nothing is happening with
your partner, I think then theawareness needs to be turned
still inward, but turned to okay.
Well, where am I now not beingsatisfied?
Where am I not being fulfilled?
I'm doing this work to bettermyself in this relationship and
(11:21):
look where I still feel I am.
So that work does change, right, but it's still being pointed
inwards.
We cannot change anyone elseLike I.
Can't say that enough.
We can't, no matter how much wewant to.
We just are simply not thatpowerful.
(11:41):
The person we are with needs towant to change themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You're speaking my language.
I say often and sometimes Ifeel like people might think
that this is a very pessimisticview but I say often that people
don't change and it's not thatthey don't change right, because
obviously I am so differentthan I was when I was 21 years
old and when I was 17 years oldand when I was 15 years old but
(12:12):
people don't change in regardsto their people don't change to
like how we want them to be oror what we want them to be like
or how we want them to show upin a relationship, and and can
we put an effort and meet ourpartner where we are?
I think that's kind of adifferent conversation too.
But fundamentally, we don'tchange unless we want to, and we
(12:37):
can't change other people.
And learning that's been one ofmy maybe I don't know biggest
things in my personal life islearning when to walk away and
when to stay and keep working onit and honestly, I don't think
I have it figured out.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, no, I went to learning when to walk away is
one of the hardest things right,because we're staying in a
relationship because it'scomfortable.
So even if and I mean afriendship or romantic
relationship, even a familialrelationship right, any
relationship that doesn't feelright to us, doesn't feel
healthy, can still feelcomfortable, and that's enough
(13:19):
of a reason, a lot of the times,to make us stay.
So something I'll often askclients, you know, throughout
exploration around arelationship like that, is what
are things that I can dodifferent?
We do something different.
It will almost always make theperson we are with do something
(13:41):
different too.
It's a very interestingexercise.
If you're usually the one I'msorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
What if you didn't say I'msorry this time?
What would happen?
Interesting, right, if you'reusually the one that walks away
and doesn't say anything.
What would happen if youapproach the conversation?
(14:05):
But it's such a small shiftthat can act.
It's very difficult to do right, because we have our natural
reactions for a reason andthey're very difficult to break
out of.
But when we start askingourselves what can we do
different, it's alwaysinteresting what comes out of
that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love that idea, that exercise in any
relationship and thank you forpointing that out.
I meant to point that out inthe beginning.
I think we oftentimes think ofjust romantic relationships but,
yeah, families, huge Settingboundaries are a big one with
that, yeah, setting boundarieswithin our family.
(14:45):
So what happens?
So let's kind of go there anddo a hypothetical Like what
happens if we do somethingdifferent?
Right, we're the ones that arealways saying sorry, the people
pleaser with our parents, right,and we are working on setting
boundaries and we're like okay,I'm not going to apologize for
something that's not my fault.
If you were in the wrong, okay,this is a different situation,
(15:08):
but I'm not going to apologizefor something that's not my
fault and I'm not going toappease that person.
And then they get mad, or thenthey yell at us or then they,
you know, don't want to spendtime with us anymore, like you
know, respond in a negative way.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, I think the hardest part about something
like that is actually sittingwith the uncomfortable feelings
about something being different.
Right, if you're being yelledat because you did something
different, can you sit with that?
I mean, it's so uncomfortable.
But if we can't learn to sitwith those feelings, nothing is
(15:53):
going to change.
Right, if, as soon as thereaction happens, you say okay,
okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry.
Right is if, as soon as thereaction happens, you say okay,
okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry you're back in that same
pattern.
Yeah, so, yeah, might it take alittle while to actually
implement change?
Maybe, but part of that isgoing to be how you tolerate
sitting in what's uncomfortable.
(16:14):
So you know, again withsomething I always say is how
can we find comfort in thediscomfort, right, sitting in
something that can be sointolerable, knowing that, okay,
I'm doing something different.
Can that bring you comfort oreventual comfort?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Is that typically enough Tochange something, to change a
boundary, to?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
become, to start to become comfortable in the
uncomfortable.
For sure, Maybe not the first,second, third time, but after a
lot of work and the desire forthat to change it for sure, can
be enough.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love, I think one of the one of the practices that
I've done in my life is really,from time to time, not daily,
right, but I will practice beingmindful of doing something that
is uncomfortable for the factthat it is uncomfortable, and
this can be physical discomfort,right, so it can be, you know,
(17:24):
doing a harder workout at thegym, a cold plunge, a sauna, if
you're like a heat or coldperson, going for a run when
you're not a runner, likepushing yourself that way,
pushing yourself maybe torespond differently within more
safe relationships where youfeel like you know this person
(17:47):
will still hold me and love meand accept me within that, Um,
but almost for me, I've almostpracticed it.
So then, when you get to thatpoint and this is also coming
from someone that I meaneveryone right, like hates,
sitting in the uncomfortablefeeling, yeah, everyone hates it
(18:07):
.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, and I actually really love this physical piece
that you mentioned right,because I think that physically
feeling something can be sohelpful to how we then
emotionally feel.
Something right Like the bodymind connection is so so, so, so
, so real.
So if we can practicephysically making ourselves
(18:28):
uncomfortable with somethingthat's healthy, right, like
things that you just named, Ithink that that's such a cool
reminder and it can create suchan awareness around how
uncomfortable something can beand help us.
Right, it's not hurting us,it's helping us.
Just because something's hardDoesn't mean we shouldn't do it
(18:51):
and that we can get through itRight.
Absolutely Work through it.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yes, yeah, proving to yourself that you, you can
actually do this.
I think it was Rachel Hollis,like through COVID, during in
the midst of like 2019.
I think that was the first timeI heard, um, I think she had
this whole thing and it was youcan do hard things and it's such
a simple thing, right, and Imean it's.
It's.
(19:15):
It's often the simple messagesthat are the ones that stick,
and that's just something thatsticks in my brain all the time.
Whenever I have something thatis uncomfortable or difficult,
it's even like saying that tomyself you can do hard things.
Look at the hard things thatyou've done in the past.
Look at everything that you'veovercome in the past.
(19:36):
You can do this thing.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Right everything that you've overcome in the past,
you can do this thing Right.
A good question with that, too,is reminding yourself with the
question of will I be okay?
The answer is almost always yes.
The same thing goes withrelationships.
If, for some reason, thisrelationship doesn't work out,
(20:05):
if, for some reason, thisrelationship doesn't work out,
will I be okay?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
the answer is almost always yes, I love that actually
.
I like that a lot, I think,because we get stuck right.
Is it because we just avoidchange?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
that we get.
Yeah well, I Well, I thinkagain it goes back to the
comfort.
Yeah, the the avoiding changeis about staying comfortable.
We, we really, really havedifficulty tolerating discomfort
and once we can lean into thatand understand what's happening,
it might give us some freedomto make some of those difficult
(20:39):
changes.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So how do we start building this self-awareness,
how do we even start buildingthis knowledge of?
This is a pattern that maybe Idon't want anymore, and I do
have the power to change ifwe're in the beginning of that
(21:04):
journey.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, I think it's about first recognizing a
relationship that doesn't feellike it's working for you and
identifying why that is.
What is the pattern?
Right, you first have to seewhat is the pattern that's
happening.
Pattern right, you first haveto see what is the pattern
that's happening, and I thinkthe next step after that would
be okay, where do I play a rolein this pattern?
(21:26):
Right, and then we begin thework of well, can I do different
or does do I want to doanything different?
Right, that's a big one.
Does this just feel like?
It's not for me?
But if we want to remain in therelationship and work towards
it feeling better or different,then the question becomes okay,
(21:48):
where do I play a role and whatcan I do different?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I like that.
I think that's hard for some,very hard.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Very, I know, know it's like all these things I'm
saying sound from a baseline, sosimple and like this is some of
the hardest, hardest work thatyou can do to really look inward
.
It's so difficult and I I sayto all my patients, if this was
easy everyone would be doing it,but it's not.
(22:20):
But the change really takeshard, real work on the self.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, so what is the benefit of this?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
If there's so many benefits, right, it's really to
understand yourself gives youpower to control your life from
what's controllable.
In a lot of ways, right,entering into relationships and
feeling empowered in thembecause you understand why
you're doing something or whyyou're reacting to something a
(22:57):
certain way.
You're doing something or whyyou're reacting to something a
certain way.
Same thing goes for you know,entering into a career path and
how you interact with coworkers,or why am I even doing the job
that I'm doing?
You know, I think that thisimpacts your entire life, every
relationship you have and howyou move throughout your life
(23:21):
too.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I think it's huge too, and we're cause one of
the things that one of theconnections that we have in our
businesses is really learningyourself and I use tools like
human design and cycle alignment, and so I mean all three of
them really at the, at the heart, are learning yourself and
(23:46):
learning your, the way that youare uniquely created through
exploration of, like your humandesign chart Right, um, and I
really like that.
You said we can show up inrelationships feeling empowered
and feeling confident andknowing who we are.
I think that comes with age,but also all of the work that
(24:09):
I've done in my life.
I've noticed in the differentrelationships that I've entered,
there's a lot less uncertainty,I guess, I guess like lack of
confidence, um, where it alsobecomes easier to let people go,
(24:30):
I think, when we're right,that's with that question, will
I be okay?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, yes, you will.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, and I think in in the beginning you don't know
that right like will okay.
Logically, yeah, sure, maybe,maybe I'll be okay, but as we
continue this process and evenmaybe letting that person go
with fear, like not you know,not completely knowing Okay, I
(24:58):
definitely will be okay.
And then recognizing oh, I wasokay.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I am okay.
And I think fear is aninteresting one, because you
know, if you're fearful of nothaving this person in your life,
why is it your fear of beingalone?
Is it your fear of being notbeing loved?
(25:23):
Right, what is it about?
And if you understand that,then you automatically have more
power and control over it.
This isn't about this otherperson.
This might have nothing to dowith the other person and it has
everything to do with you.
So, right then, and there youfeel empowered and you have more
(25:44):
control to make these shifts,knowing that this other person
has nothing to do with it, andyou will be okay.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Let me also say this is so different when you
actually go through it.
There's so many things intherapy that we like hear, like,
oh, my therapist said that.
Like all of those real trends,my therapist said this yeah, and
until you actually like not gothrough it but work through it,
so not something that happens toyou, but it's something that
(26:16):
you again take and you use it asan empowering situation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So different so right , right, that's what I'm saying.
I feel, like this wholeconversation, I'm making
everything sound so simple andit is so not.
No, it is so not when you'reworking through it.
This is really really hard,intricate, difficult work that
takes so much.
It takes so much, and there'snothing easy or simple about it.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah Well, and I think that this is really simple
about it yeah Well, and I thinkthat this is really when we say
find people to support you.
I know that in the mostdifficult seasons of my life, if
I didn't have the people that Ihad and I'm not just talking
family and friends, likeprofessionals If I didn't have
(27:04):
the professionals that I had, itwould have been completely
different, or it would havetaken me a lot longer, or, you
know, it's as someone that Ifind I feel that I have a lot of
tools and a lot of knowledgeand I've really spent a majority
of my life diving intoself-help, self-empowerment,
(27:25):
whatever like the work the work,um, that doesn't matter.
Like there's no level that youcan get to where you're like no,
I can do this all by myself.
And and there's no level thatyou're low enough that, like,
you couldn't benefit from havingsomeone supporting you in this
and being able to zoom out, zoomin, like see different
(27:49):
perspectives that you can't seebecause you're in it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not just saying thisbecause I'm a therapist, but
therapy can be just some of themost meaningful, meaningful,
wholesome work when we have thisability or opportunity to
understand ourselves in this oneway and, like you're saying,
(28:14):
there's so many other ways toalso do that work to understand
yourself.
But it gives you the tools andthe empowerment that you need to
move throughout your life andfeel a level of sureness and
confidence that you might nothave if there was just a big
(28:35):
question mark within you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I think, knowing I have, I have a one line in my
human design chart which I wouldactually have to look at, like
your gates and stuff, to seewhere else this shows up,
because you don't have a oneline in your profile.
But the one line in your profileis called the investigator and
it's like the researcher and Ialways attribute my needing to
(29:02):
know, like one of the thingsthat you said that really
resonated with me is like whenyou do this work or when you
work with a therapist, orwhatever, you understand why you
respond certain ways inrelationships, and I really love
understanding the, the like,what's going on up here in my
(29:24):
brain when, when I'm liketriggered or responding or not
responding, reacting in acertain way, because there's a
difference between respondingand reacting yeah, I react in a
certain way.
I'm like, oh, where did thatcome from?
Um, and that, like researchbrain of mine, I always
attribute to the one line in myhuman design profiles, like
(29:47):
really understanding where thisis coming from, why I'm showing
up this way, and it's justreally interesting that you
brought that up too.
Yeah, so I want to talk aboutone thing in your human design
(30:07):
chart and then, because I wantto leave a little bit of time
for you to like, I want to hearwhat you feel about it.
Um, so we have just because Iknow that you don't know
anything about human design,which I love because it opens up
this kind of teachingopportunity, uh, on the podcast,
which is fun.
So we have.
If you look at your humandesign, what's called a body
graph chart, you're going to seethat it roughly mimics an
(30:31):
actual body.
So there's like two trianglesup top, that kind of look like a
head, and then it goes downinto your throat and your heart
and blah, blah, blah, and you'regoing to notice that they have
either a color it's colored inor it's white.
So it's going to be dependingon what app you're using.
Like maybe it'll be black,purple my app is different
(30:52):
colors, actually that doesn'treally matter so much or it's
just going to be completelywhite.
Maybe you'll have one of thenumbers in your, in your shape,
that's colored in, but actualshape, which is a triangle,
square, diamond, is not coloredin.
So you have colored in meansdefined, not colored in.
(31:14):
For these purposes we'll sayundefined.
So you have two open centersand it's your um, it's called
your G center and your egocenter.
Don't think ego in terms oflike, how we think about ego.
The interesting thing that Ireally just love about your
chart is that your G center andyour ego center.
(31:35):
Are you familiar with thechakra system at all?
A little bit, okay.
So when we're talking in termsof chakras, your like heart
chakra is obviously in the areaof your heart.
In the human design world, twoof our chakra systems split, so
our heart is one of the onesthat's split and it's split into
(31:56):
the G center and the ego center.
So your two non-defined centersare basically what makes up the
heart chakra, which, in humandesign terms, the g center is
all about, like love.
Well, it says love anddirection, but it's really
mostly about um, our direction,like where we're going in life
(32:20):
and our identity.
So how like who am I?
um who do?
I think that I am like who, who, who am I?
And then where am I going?
The ego center is a kind of ourmotivation.
So, um, like what motivates me?
Also, the actual ability tolike get up and act and take
(32:44):
action.
Um, so I love looking at myguests human design charts when
we're talking about, like yourfield of expertise, and I can
tell that they're like this isreally what they were created to
do and really passionate aboutand really want to do, because
not that like I've ever saidthis, but I would say these are
the two that like we can kind oftalk about in terms of relating
(33:08):
to ourselves and to others.
So, like the love and direction.
Sometimes we think love as inlike, oh, how I love other
people, it's actually how I lovemyself and how I, it's that
like identity and thatconfidence.
And it's really interesting tome that those are your two
undefined areas, because I heardone of my favorite pieces of
(33:34):
human design info that I've everlearned was it's our open
centers and our undefinedcenters where we have the most
growth in our life.
And it's often our undefinedcenters where I have found we
tend to, if we're entrepreneurs,like we tend to have a lot of
(33:55):
ties to our undefined centers um, because it's where we've spent
the most time growing anddeveloping.
And because like for mepersonally.
I have an undefined roots right, which is all about grounding.
So because I've spent so muchtime and continue cause I don't
have it all figured out, I spentso much time finding my
(34:17):
grounding and finding, like myroot, my sense of safety and
stability, and especially thepast few years of my life I
haven't felt safe and secure.
Especially the past few yearsof my life I haven't felt safe
and secure.
So it's really important for meto make sure that I show up
that way in my for my clients,like how can we develop this
safety and securement?
So yours being like kind of theheart chakra we'll call it in
(34:40):
quotes I really love that.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So I'm curious if that resonates with you at all.
I just want to make sure Itotally get it.
So mine is about remaining openfrom a love, a heart, a heart
place.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Good question so our open centers versus defined
centers.
I always use the analogy of adoor versus defined centers.
I always use the analogy of adoor.
So when we have a definedenergy center which why I asked
if you're familiar with thechakra system, is only because
it models the chakra system andeach energy center, each shape
(35:19):
has its own characteristicswhich I kind of shared with,
like the G center and the ego sowhen we have a defined center,
that door is, let's say, closed,so other people's energy, other
people's influence we couldalso call it has a harder time
penetrating through, doesn'tmean that your other people's
(35:41):
energy can't get through because, right, we can open a door, but
it has a harder time.
In undefined center.
The door is like cracked open,maybe halfway open, and then in
open center, which just means wedon't have any colored in
numbers in that energy center.
That door is wide open, soother people's energy can pretty
easily flow in.
(36:01):
So when we're talking in termsof like the G center, which is
your identity, your love anddirection maybe I'm not saying
this is true for you, but forundefined or open we typically
would say maybe in times of yourlife you've kind of struggled
with like where am I going?
What do I want besides justwhat everyone else is telling me
(36:25):
, what I want, like what do Iactually want and who am I
actually?
My sister has an undefined Gcenter and she struggled a lot
when she was younger with herself identity, like who am I?
And and where.
And for her case it was likewhat do I want to do with my
life?
Like, what is my purpose?
(36:45):
Where am I going in my life?
What do I want to do with mylife?
Like, what is my purpose?
Where am I going in my life?
Versus me, I have a defined Gcenter and I'm not talking in
terms of vocation, because Ididn't always know what I wanted
to do.
I actually went to school forspeech pathology and, like I was
very clear on that, got into ita couple of years later and was
pretty clear that I didn't wantto do it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's not necessarily job.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It's just I've always been pretty clear on who I am,
how I identify, even how I dress, like obviously that's changed
over my lifetime, but I've neverreally explored extremes Like I
was never like emo and goth andthen like super girly girl Like
(37:26):
.
I've always been like generally,girly girl if we're labeling it
, whereas my sister, like shewas kind of like tomboy and then
wanted to wear a dress and like.
So our undefined G centers.
One of the invitations isalways actually explore and play
around with like who, how youidentify and how you want to
(37:47):
identify.
And then the last thing I'llsay is we typically one of the
reasons I like this about yourchart is we say like, whenever
somebody has an open center,you're also.
That open center is kind oflike a mirror.
Also, that open center is kindof like a mirror.
(38:08):
So let's say, you and I areworking together.
Right, I have a defined Gcenter, you have an undefined.
So I'm kind of like my G center.
Energy is pouring into thatmirror and being reflected even
more strongly back to me, which,in terms of therapy, is kind of
cool.
Not that everyone that you meetis going to have a defined G
(38:28):
center or ego, but like that'spart of a therapist job.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Right Is to be a mirror and to create clarity, so
I totally love that.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Like being a mirror with the G center and the ego is
kind of cool in your specificrelationship aspect of therapy.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't know if this speaks to my chart, so you tell
me, but I, you know, just interms of what you were talking
about before, I think I havealways been very sure of myself.
I definitely have always haddirection.
I'm very, very determined andknow what I want.
But I do think, as I've gottenolder, something I'm learning
(39:12):
about myself is that I the ideasof the way I thought things
needed to be don't necessarilyneed to be that way, and that
there is more opportunity for mebeyond what I was supposed to
do, mm-hmm.
So that's something I'mdefinitely feeling so much more
(39:32):
open to now in my life and I'mdefinitely exploring in terms of
where I'm supposed to go and,um, just who I was supposed to
really be yeah and and that'syeah, that's one of the
invitations when you have theopen g center is really I love
(39:53):
that word exploring, justexploring like where do I want
to go?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
who do I want to be?
You have a lot, you have sevendefined centers, so like that,
the fineness, I always kind oflike say that's like your
defined centers ground you andbring you down to earth and
that's a lot of defined centersfor a human design chart.
Probably not like you can haveactually all defined centers,
(40:20):
but um, from the charts thatI've seen and worked with, like
that's you're definitely on likethe more defined areas or more
defined side.
So having that like and youhave a defined crown and Ajna
which crown?
And third eye, if you'rethinking in terms of chakras, so
the way in which you think ispretty I was gonna say, defined,
(40:45):
pretty consistent.
The way in which you like gaininsight and then process the
insight is pretty consistentalso great.
As a therapist, love that foryou.
But I always yeah, it's alwayslike finding that balance right.
So it's not saying like, oh, Ican't think of something a
different way.
(41:05):
It's actually finding thatbalance and asking yourself,
like you said, can I processthis information in a different
way, can?
I see this from a differentperspective or a different
background?
Or can I explore this?
Because we can get very stuckright With our I mean I would
(41:26):
word it with our defined centers.
We can get a little stuck inthe way that we do things and
the way that we process thoughtsand patterns and emotions.
So it's always finding that,you know, bridge.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Right, and part of part of growth, I think, is, you
know, incorporating what wewere talking about earlier.
Okay, well, is there somethingI can do different?
Should I try something new?
Right, it's okay, I'm defined,but that doesn't mean it's
closed forever or that there'sno room for exploration or
wonder.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Right.
I think that we can use thistool, we can use that as an
example, but really any toolsthat we've learned, that we've
picked up in our life, we canuse them as excuses, and use
them as explanations of like I'mjust this way, like, oh, my,
(42:22):
this center is defined, or I'm aLeo, or I'm a Enneagram,
whatever, or like Myers-Briggswhatever tool you want to say.
We can use that as an excuse orwe can use it as insight to
challenge ourselves.
Like and use it as insight tochallenge ourselves Like is this
actually me?
Can I respond differently?
(42:43):
That's different.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Definitely, definitely, definitely.
I was going to say we always.
It's very natural to look forthings that validates the story
that we're living by, versuschallenging it.
So again, it's the what'seasier right.
What's easier is oh, that fitsin with my story nicely, I'm
going to go with it, versuschallenging that idea and
(43:10):
pushing yourself a little bit ina different way.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that.
It's really a growth mindsetright.
Exactly, and we're always,we're always changing and
growing.
I mean, that's just life.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's the goal, right?
If you're not, then I thinkthat that needs to be questioned
.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know I yeah, it's hard for
me even to like put myself inthat I think a lot of it also is
, um, how we were raised,because I was raised like my mom
has such a growth mindset,maybe like too much of a growth
mindset, if that's a thing.
Um, and I can't yeah, I can'timagine staying stagnant.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
But I think so.
Just, you know, using that asan example, yes, Right, Maybe we
have that based on how we wereraised.
But then let's say you knowthat.
And let's say it's the oppositeway.
Right, you don't have a growthmindset because of the way you
were raised.
But if you know that you canchange that, right.
But a lot of people don't evenknow that, so they just live
(44:22):
that way, versus creating theawareness that this is why I
have this mindset and then okay,do I want to continue that way,
or is there another path for me?
Is there another way for me?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I love your message and your accountability and it's
very inspirational to me.
I think we can get very stuckin life is happening to me.
It's that quote right.
What if I shifted from life ishappening to me to life is
(44:59):
happening for me and reallytaking that accountability in,
how can I change or can can Ichange this, how can I change
this?
I can change this.
Yeah, taking action?
Yeah, for sure, oh, I love that.
So where can people find you ifthey are like, so here for it,
(45:21):
let me learn.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website at Jordan
Scholar LMHCcom, or on Instagramat Jordan Scholar.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Cool.
And last question yeah, ifyou're standing on a stage right
now and you had one messagethat you could share with the
world, what would that messagebe?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Do something different.
That is my biggest.
I mean I think I've said itright the whole episode.
But again, this little littlething can have the power to help
you think differently and alsoshift what's going on around you
.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Do something different we need that like
tattooed.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I think I'll get a new tattoo this weekend.
Thank you so much for coming on.
This is really thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
This was awesome.
Thank you thanks.
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well.
So today is one of my favoritedays because we get to talk to a
therapist and you know, that Ilove all things therapy, all
things relationships.
So today I'm joined with JordanScholar.
She's a licensed therapist,relationship expert, also a 6'2
(00:25):
emotional mani-gen, so you knowwe'll throw in some human design
in there.
It is so good to have you onthe podcast, jordan.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I am so happy to be here.
Thank you so much for having me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So I would love for you to kind of introduce
yourself.
What brought you to where youare today?
Maybe your pre-therapy journey?
And then how?
How you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Definitely, definitely.
So I always knew I wanted to bea therapist, but I totally
thought it was going to be asecond career path for me.
For whatever reason, I was likeI am going to do this after I
have kids, you know, maybe whenmy kids are in college.
I just always saw it as a laterin life passion of mine.
(01:10):
And after graduating fromcollege I worked in marketing
for about a year and then I wentthrough a little bit of a
traumatic experience with myfamily and after going through
that, I had this moment where Isaid my family, and after going
through that, I had this momentwhere I said I need to do it now
.
I need to do what I know willfulfill me in the way that, um,
(01:36):
I had so clearly pictured formyself in the future.
So pretty instantly I quit myjob and I started figuring out
what it was going to take to getinto school.
Um, and the rest is history.
I started my program, beganworking as a therapist and I
started my own private practicethree years ago.
So it has been a journey, butit has been a wonderful journey.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I love that you always wanted to be a therapist.
I feel like I've not heard thatbefore, so I really love that.
It's such a passion of yours.
I think that's what makes agood therapist is someone that
actually loves what they'redoing and is really passionate
about helping people andrelationships.
So I'm curious what is your?
(02:19):
Do you do couples therapy?
Mostly one-on-ones.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Both.
I definitely do both and I loveboth work.
It's so interesting howdifferent couples therapy versus
individual therapy can be, andI always say that the strongest
couples therapy work happenswhen both individuals in the
couple are in their ownindividual work as well.
(02:43):
So obviously that takes a wholelot, but the most successful
and productive couples workhappens when individuals are
able to really look atthemselves in the mirror, which
obviously can be done more so inindividual work.
So I think it's that beautifulcombo that makes for successful
couples work, and I absolutelylove working with individuals as
(03:06):
well.
I'm definitely a bit of achallenging therapist, so when I
say that, especially withindividuals, I really provide a
lot of pushback and challenge sothat we have this ability to
look at ourselves in the mirrorand look at where am I coming
into play here, rather thanpointing fingers at the people
(03:28):
around us.
I think it's so, so, soimportant in therapy to be able
to look at your own agency.
That way we can really createthese little shifts moving
forward that help us live thelife that we want to be living,
I think one of the things thatwe want to be living.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think one of the things, one of the questions
that I get or I hear, not that Iget, get them personally a lot,
but I hear kind of floatingaround when people are
considering therapy is how do Iknow who is a good therapist for
me?
And I would love your input onthis and you to answer the
question.
But one of the things that Ialways say is know what kind of
(04:05):
therapist you want, becausethere's some therapists that are
more affirming and maybenurturing kind of like.
I'm imagining more that likefeminine or masculine energy,
not the male or female therapist, but more maybe more affirming
and and nurturing and kind ofjust agreeing with what you're
(04:25):
saying and listening to you.
And then there's therapiststhat are really here to
challenge you and really here tohelp you see a different
perspective, which I think isone of the biggest benefits of
therapy.
But I'm curious, yeah, if youwould answer that question.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you.
Right, there's different,there's different types of
therapists, and I thinksomething that's so important to
think about is what type oftherapist is right for you at
different points of your life,right, cause that can change.
At some points you might needthat more validating, affirming
therapist who's just kind ofcoddling, maybe a little bit
more nurturing, and at otherpoints you might really need
(05:03):
that push, that challenge.
The other thing that I think isso imperative in picking a
therapist is it's so simple, butthe vibe that you get right,
how you and your therapist vibetogether, has a huge, a huge
importance in the success of thework.
(05:25):
And when I say success, Ireally just mean in your
willingness to be there and todo the work.
So the relationship you havewith your therapist, where you
can feel really heard andunderstood and safe, goes off of
the vibe.
That's really where that starts.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So I would say just having that as like this basic,
simple rule is also a reallyhelpful tool in finding the
right therapist for you and, Ithink, not being afraid of
(06:02):
trying a couple ones, becauseall of my friends that I talk to
they're always just like yeah,I just kind of started with the
first one because I didn't knowthat I could therapist shop.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, Whenever I have a consultation with someone, I
always encourage them or I guessI'm always pleased when I hear
they're shopping around, becausethat means they're really have
this willingness to want to dothe work with the right
therapist for them and they'renot just willing to settle and
if it doesn't feel right, moveon.
Right, it's okay, it's reallyokay to do that.
And your therapist, I promiseyou will understand.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah kind of like friendships, right whenever
we're trying to.
If you meet a new person andyou don't vibe with them and
you're like, okay, we're justnot going to hang out anymore,
and then you meet that personthat you really love hanging out
with and spending time with,makes sense to me not everyone
can be a match.
Yeah, yeah, not ever.
Yeah, not everyone is going toUm.
So let's dive into that.
(06:49):
Uh, more assertive, moreassertive way of approaching
therapy and having a therapistlike yourself.
I'm curious, first of all, whythat is your specific approach.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That's a great question, um.
I had a therapist um whochallenged me and it was
something I was so unpreparedfor.
This was years ago this wasbefore I was a therapist, um but
it was such moving work that attimes I couldn't even handle.
In fact, I walked away from itat a time and then, I believe it
was like six months to a yearlater, I had this epiphany and I
(07:35):
was like I need to go back tothis therapist, I'm ready for it
, I get it now and my lifecompletely changed.
I think it's really when atherapist has the ability to
help you realize how muchcontrol you have in the changes
you can make in your life thatreal impact can be made.
(07:56):
So there's, of course, animportance of listening and
hearing, you know, becausethere's a difference between
listening and hearing but doingcause.
There's a difference betweenlistening and hearing, but doing
both of those things as atherapist and supporting.
But I think that there's somuch more that can be done than
just that.
So, for me, I let my clientsknow that from the start this is
(08:20):
how the work is going to bedone and, you know, I want them
to be a very active participantin the way that work happens and
unfolds.
So I definitely put it outthere from the start.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I.
It's honestly such a differentapproach, because I've worked
with multiple therapists overthe years and I've never had
anyone approach me that way andI've never really felt like my
therapists have pushed me a ton,which I love.
That you're pointing out twicenow that you have to be ready
(08:57):
for it and you have to feel thatthat it's like a aligned part
of your story right now, becauseI think that we're not always
we're not always ready for it,but I love that you have this
approach and focusing onboundaries.
One of the things that I'm kindof curious about is when, when
(09:18):
we're talking in terms oflooking at ourselves in the
mirror, right, takingaccountability, there's a
balance, because I've definitelywitnessed where and this is
just my personal opinion I meanit's, it is what it is, but
where I felt like maybe one ofmy friends was taking so much
(09:40):
accountability and doing so muchwork and their partner just
wasn't, and it's like I'mconstantly looking at the mirror
, constantly looking at themirror, which may not be the
norm, but my audience.
I know that there's people outthere that are very accountable
and take great responsibilityfor their actions and do take
time in self-reflection Not thatwe can't do more sometimes or,
(10:03):
like you know, see differentperspectives but I am curious if
we can touch on that balanceand how do we know that we're
finding that balance of?
Okay, I'm really looking atmyself in the mirror and looking
at the role that I'm taking inthis, let's say, relationship,
because we're kind of talkingabout relationships,
(10:26):
relationship, because we're kindof talking about relationships.
I'm looking at the role thatI'm playing in this relationship
and there's always newperspectives that I can see, but
to what extent am I looking andthe other person is not doing?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
any work.
Yeah Well, first of all, thatsounds incredibly frustrating.
Right To be doing self-workalongside someone who isn't
willing to look at themselves,something that should be checked
on for sure.
But yes, that sounds incrediblyfrustrating and I think if
(10:57):
you're doing that self-work tolook in the mirror and being
aware of your part in everythingand nothing is happening with
your partner, I think then theawareness needs to be turned
still inward, but turned to okay.
Well, where am I now not beingsatisfied?
Where am I not being fulfilled?
I'm doing this work to bettermyself in this relationship and
(11:21):
look where I still feel I am.
So that work does change, right, but it's still being pointed
inwards.
We cannot change anyone elseLike I.
Can't say that enough.
We can't, no matter how much wewant to.
We just are simply not thatpowerful.
(11:41):
The person we are with needs towant to change themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You're speaking my language.
I say often and sometimes Ifeel like people might think
that this is a very pessimisticview but I say often that people
don't change and it's not thatthey don't change right, because
obviously I am so differentthan I was when I was 21 years
old and when I was 17 years oldand when I was 15 years old but
(12:12):
people don't change in regardsto their people don't change to
like how we want them to be oror what we want them to be like
or how we want them to show upin a relationship, and and can
we put an effort and meet ourpartner where we are?
I think that's kind of adifferent conversation too.
But fundamentally, we don'tchange unless we want to, and we
(12:37):
can't change other people.
And learning that's been one ofmy maybe I don't know biggest
things in my personal life islearning when to walk away and
when to stay and keep working onit and honestly, I don't think
I have it figured out.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, no, I went to learning when to walk away is
one of the hardest things right,because we're staying in a
relationship because it'scomfortable.
So even if and I mean afriendship or romantic
relationship, even a familialrelationship right, any
relationship that doesn't feelright to us, doesn't feel
healthy, can still feelcomfortable, and that's enough
(13:19):
of a reason, a lot of the times,to make us stay.
So something I'll often askclients, you know, throughout
exploration around arelationship like that, is what
are things that I can dodifferent?
We do something different.
It will almost always make theperson we are with do something
(13:41):
different too.
It's a very interestingexercise.
If you're usually the one I'msorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
What if you didn't say I'msorry this time?
What would happen?
Interesting, right, if you'reusually the one that walks away
and doesn't say anything.
What would happen if youapproach the conversation?
(14:05):
But it's such a small shiftthat can act.
It's very difficult to do right, because we have our natural
reactions for a reason andthey're very difficult to break
out of.
But when we start askingourselves what can we do
different, it's alwaysinteresting what comes out of
that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love that idea, that exercise in any
relationship and thank you forpointing that out.
I meant to point that out inthe beginning.
I think we oftentimes think ofjust romantic relationships but,
yeah, families, huge Settingboundaries are a big one with
that, yeah, setting boundarieswithin our family.
(14:45):
So what happens?
So let's kind of go there anddo a hypothetical Like what
happens if we do somethingdifferent?
Right, we're the ones that arealways saying sorry, the people
pleaser with our parents, right,and we are working on setting
boundaries and we're like okay,I'm not going to apologize for
something that's not my fault.
If you were in the wrong, okay,this is a different situation,
(15:08):
but I'm not going to apologizefor something that's not my
fault and I'm not going toappease that person.
And then they get mad, or thenthey yell at us or then they,
you know, don't want to spendtime with us anymore, like you
know, respond in a negative way.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, I think the hardest part about something
like that is actually sittingwith the uncomfortable feelings
about something being different.
Right, if you're being yelledat because you did something
different, can you sit with that?
I mean, it's so uncomfortable.
But if we can't learn to sitwith those feelings, nothing is
(15:53):
going to change.
Right, if, as soon as thereaction happens, you say okay,
okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry.
Right is if, as soon as thereaction happens, you say okay,
okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'msorry you're back in that same
pattern.
Yeah, so, yeah, might it take alittle while to actually
implement change?
Maybe, but part of that isgoing to be how you tolerate
sitting in what's uncomfortable.
(16:14):
So you know, again withsomething I always say is how
can we find comfort in thediscomfort, right, sitting in
something that can be sointolerable, knowing that, okay,
I'm doing something different.
Can that bring you comfort oreventual comfort?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Is that typically enough Tochange something, to change a
boundary, to?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
become, to start to become comfortable in the
uncomfortable.
For sure, Maybe not the first,second, third time, but after a
lot of work and the desire forthat to change it for sure, can
be enough.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love, I think one of the one of the practices that
I've done in my life is really,from time to time, not daily,
right, but I will practice beingmindful of doing something that
is uncomfortable for the factthat it is uncomfortable, and
this can be physical discomfort,right, so it can be, you know,
(17:24):
doing a harder workout at thegym, a cold plunge, a sauna, if
you're like a heat or coldperson, going for a run when
you're not a runner, likepushing yourself that way,
pushing yourself maybe torespond differently within more
safe relationships where youfeel like you know this person
(17:47):
will still hold me and love meand accept me within that, Um,
but almost for me, I've almostpracticed it.
So then, when you get to thatpoint and this is also coming
from someone that I meaneveryone right, like hates,
sitting in the uncomfortablefeeling, yeah, everyone hates it
(18:07):
.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, and I actually really love this physical piece
that you mentioned right,because I think that physically
feeling something can be sohelpful to how we then
emotionally feel.
Something right Like the bodymind connection is so so, so, so
, so real.
So if we can practicephysically making ourselves
(18:28):
uncomfortable with somethingthat's healthy, right, like
things that you just named, Ithink that that's such a cool
reminder and it can create suchan awareness around how
uncomfortable something can beand help us.
Right, it's not hurting us,it's helping us.
Just because something's hardDoesn't mean we shouldn't do it
(18:51):
and that we can get through itRight.
Absolutely Work through it.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yes, yeah, proving to yourself that you, you can
actually do this.
I think it was Rachel Hollis,like through COVID, during in
the midst of like 2019.
I think that was the first timeI heard, um, I think she had
this whole thing and it was youcan do hard things and it's such
a simple thing, right, and Imean it's.
It's.
(19:15):
It's often the simple messagesthat are the ones that stick,
and that's just something thatsticks in my brain all the time.
Whenever I have something thatis uncomfortable or difficult,
it's even like saying that tomyself you can do hard things.
Look at the hard things thatyou've done in the past.
Look at everything that you'veovercome in the past.
(19:36):
You can do this thing.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Right everything that you've overcome in the past,
you can do this thing Right.
A good question with that, too,is reminding yourself with the
question of will I be okay?
The answer is almost always yes.
The same thing goes withrelationships.
If, for some reason, thisrelationship doesn't work out,
(20:05):
if, for some reason, thisrelationship doesn't work out,
will I be okay?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
the answer is almost always yes, I love that actually
.
I like that a lot, I think,because we get stuck right.
Is it because we just avoidchange?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
that we get.
Yeah well, I Well, I thinkagain it goes back to the
comfort.
Yeah, the the avoiding changeis about staying comfortable.
We, we really, really havedifficulty tolerating discomfort
and once we can lean into thatand understand what's happening,
it might give us some freedomto make some of those difficult
(20:39):
changes.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So how do we start building this self-awareness,
how do we even start buildingthis knowledge of?
This is a pattern that maybe Idon't want anymore, and I do
have the power to change ifwe're in the beginning of that
(21:04):
journey.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, I think it's about first recognizing a
relationship that doesn't feellike it's working for you and
identifying why that is.
What is the pattern?
Right, you first have to seewhat is the pattern that's
happening.
Pattern right, you first haveto see what is the pattern
that's happening, and I thinkthe next step after that would
be okay, where do I play a rolein this pattern?
(21:26):
Right, and then we begin thework of well, can I do different
or does do I want to doanything different?
Right, that's a big one.
Does this just feel like?
It's not for me?
But if we want to remain in therelationship and work towards
it feeling better or different,then the question becomes okay,
(21:48):
where do I play a role and whatcan I do different?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I like that.
I think that's hard for some,very hard.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Very, I know, know it's like all these things I'm
saying sound from a baseline, sosimple and like this is some of
the hardest, hardest work thatyou can do to really look inward
.
It's so difficult and I I sayto all my patients, if this was
easy everyone would be doing it,but it's not.
(22:20):
But the change really takeshard, real work on the self.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, so what is the benefit of this?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
If there's so many benefits, right, it's really to
understand yourself gives youpower to control your life from
what's controllable.
In a lot of ways, right,entering into relationships and
feeling empowered in thembecause you understand why
you're doing something or whyyou're reacting to something a
(22:57):
certain way.
You're doing something or whyyou're reacting to something a
certain way.
Same thing goes for you know,entering into a career path and
how you interact with coworkers,or why am I even doing the job
that I'm doing?
You know, I think that thisimpacts your entire life, every
relationship you have and howyou move throughout your life
(23:21):
too.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I think it's huge too, and we're cause one of
the things that one of theconnections that we have in our
businesses is really learningyourself and I use tools like
human design and cycle alignment, and so I mean all three of
them really at the, at the heart, are learning yourself and
(23:46):
learning your, the way that youare uniquely created through
exploration of, like your humandesign chart Right, um, and I
really like that.
You said we can show up inrelationships feeling empowered
and feeling confident andknowing who we are.
I think that comes with age,but also all of the work that
(24:09):
I've done in my life.
I've noticed in the differentrelationships that I've entered,
there's a lot less uncertainty,I guess, I guess like lack of
confidence, um, where it alsobecomes easier to let people go,
(24:30):
I think, when we're right,that's with that question, will
I be okay?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, yes, you will.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, and I think in in the beginning you don't know
that right like will okay.
Logically, yeah, sure, maybe,maybe I'll be okay, but as we
continue this process and evenmaybe letting that person go
with fear, like not you know,not completely knowing Okay, I
(24:58):
definitely will be okay.
And then recognizing oh, I wasokay.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I am okay.
And I think fear is aninteresting one, because you
know, if you're fearful of nothaving this person in your life,
why is it your fear of beingalone?
Is it your fear of being notbeing loved?
(25:23):
Right, what is it about?
And if you understand that,then you automatically have more
power and control over it.
This isn't about this otherperson.
This might have nothing to dowith the other person and it has
everything to do with you.
So, right then, and there youfeel empowered and you have more
(25:44):
control to make these shifts,knowing that this other person
has nothing to do with it, andyou will be okay.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Let me also say this is so different when you
actually go through it.
There's so many things intherapy that we like hear, like,
oh, my therapist said that.
Like all of those real trends,my therapist said this yeah, and
until you actually like not gothrough it but work through it,
so not something that happens toyou, but it's something that
(26:16):
you again take and you use it asan empowering situation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So different so right , right, that's what I'm saying.
I feel, like this wholeconversation, I'm making
everything sound so simple andit is so not.
No, it is so not when you'reworking through it.
This is really really hard,intricate, difficult work that
takes so much.
It takes so much, and there'snothing easy or simple about it.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah Well, and I think that this is really simple
about it yeah Well, and I thinkthat this is really when we say
find people to support you.
I know that in the mostdifficult seasons of my life, if
I didn't have the people that Ihad and I'm not just talking
family and friends, likeprofessionals If I didn't have
(27:04):
the professionals that I had, itwould have been completely
different, or it would havetaken me a lot longer, or, you
know, it's as someone that Ifind I feel that I have a lot of
tools and a lot of knowledgeand I've really spent a majority
of my life diving intoself-help, self-empowerment,
(27:25):
whatever like the work the work,um, that doesn't matter.
Like there's no level that youcan get to where you're like no,
I can do this all by myself.
And and there's no level thatyou're low enough that, like,
you couldn't benefit from havingsomeone supporting you in this
and being able to zoom out, zoomin, like see different
(27:49):
perspectives that you can't seebecause you're in it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not just saying thisbecause I'm a therapist, but
therapy can be just some of themost meaningful, meaningful,
wholesome work when we have thisability or opportunity to
understand ourselves in this oneway and, like you're saying,
(28:14):
there's so many other ways toalso do that work to understand
yourself.
But it gives you the tools andthe empowerment that you need to
move throughout your life andfeel a level of sureness and
confidence that you might nothave if there was just a big
(28:35):
question mark within you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I think, knowing I have, I have a one line in my
human design chart which I wouldactually have to look at, like
your gates and stuff, to seewhere else this shows up,
because you don't have a oneline in your profile.
But the one line in your profileis called the investigator and
it's like the researcher and Ialways attribute my needing to
(29:02):
know, like one of the thingsthat you said that really
resonated with me is like whenyou do this work or when you
work with a therapist, orwhatever, you understand why you
respond certain ways inrelationships, and I really love
understanding the, the like,what's going on up here in my
(29:24):
brain when, when I'm liketriggered or responding or not
responding, reacting in acertain way, because there's a
difference between respondingand reacting yeah, I react in a
certain way.
I'm like, oh, where did thatcome from?
Um, and that, like researchbrain of mine, I always
attribute to the one line in myhuman design profiles, like
(29:47):
really understanding where thisis coming from, why I'm showing
up this way, and it's justreally interesting that you
brought that up too.
Yeah, so I want to talk aboutone thing in your human design
(30:07):
chart and then, because I wantto leave a little bit of time
for you to like, I want to hearwhat you feel about it.
Um, so we have just because Iknow that you don't know
anything about human design,which I love because it opens up
this kind of teachingopportunity, uh, on the podcast,
which is fun.
So we have.
If you look at your humandesign, what's called a body
graph chart, you're going to seethat it roughly mimics an
(30:31):
actual body.
So there's like two trianglesup top, that kind of look like a
head, and then it goes downinto your throat and your heart
and blah, blah, blah, and you'regoing to notice that they have
either a color it's colored inor it's white.
So it's going to be dependingon what app you're using.
Like maybe it'll be black,purple my app is different
(30:52):
colors, actually that doesn'treally matter so much or it's
just going to be completelywhite.
Maybe you'll have one of thenumbers in your, in your shape,
that's colored in, but actualshape, which is a triangle,
square, diamond, is not coloredin.
So you have colored in meansdefined, not colored in.
(31:14):
For these purposes we'll sayundefined.
So you have two open centersand it's your um, it's called
your G center and your egocenter.
Don't think ego in terms oflike, how we think about ego.
The interesting thing that Ireally just love about your
chart is that your G center andyour ego center.
(31:35):
Are you familiar with thechakra system at all?
A little bit, okay.
So when we're talking in termsof chakras, your like heart
chakra is obviously in the areaof your heart.
In the human design world, twoof our chakra systems split, so
our heart is one of the onesthat's split and it's split into
(31:56):
the G center and the ego center.
So your two non-defined centersare basically what makes up the
heart chakra, which, in humandesign terms, the g center is
all about, like love.
Well, it says love anddirection, but it's really
mostly about um, our direction,like where we're going in life
(32:20):
and our identity.
So how like who am I?
um who do?
I think that I am like who, who, who am I?
And then where am I going?
The ego center is a kind of ourmotivation.
So, um, like what motivates me?
Also, the actual ability tolike get up and act and take
(32:44):
action.
Um, so I love looking at myguests human design charts when
we're talking about, like yourfield of expertise, and I can
tell that they're like this isreally what they were created to
do and really passionate aboutand really want to do, because
not that like I've ever saidthis, but I would say these are
the two that like we can kind oftalk about in terms of relating
(33:08):
to ourselves and to others.
So, like the love and direction.
Sometimes we think love as inlike, oh, how I love other
people, it's actually how I lovemyself and how I, it's that
like identity and thatconfidence.
And it's really interesting tome that those are your two
undefined areas, because I heardone of my favorite pieces of
(33:34):
human design info that I've everlearned was it's our open
centers and our undefinedcenters where we have the most
growth in our life.
And it's often our undefinedcenters where I have found we
tend to, if we're entrepreneurs,like we tend to have a lot of
(33:55):
ties to our undefined centers um, because it's where we've spent
the most time growing anddeveloping.
And because like for mepersonally.
I have an undefined roots right, which is all about grounding.
So because I've spent so muchtime and continue cause I don't
have it all figured out, I spentso much time finding my
(34:17):
grounding and finding, like myroot, my sense of safety and
stability, and especially thepast few years of my life I
haven't felt safe and secure.
Especially the past few yearsof my life I haven't felt safe
and secure.
So it's really important for meto make sure that I show up
that way in my for my clients,like how can we develop this
safety and securement?
So yours being like kind of theheart chakra we'll call it in
(34:40):
quotes I really love that.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So I'm curious if that resonates with you at all.
I just want to make sure Itotally get it.
So mine is about remaining openfrom a love, a heart, a heart
place.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Good question so our open centers versus defined
centers.
I always use the analogy of adoor versus defined centers.
I always use the analogy of adoor.
So when we have a definedenergy center which why I asked
if you're familiar with thechakra system, is only because
it models the chakra system andeach energy center, each shape
(35:19):
has its own characteristicswhich I kind of shared with,
like the G center and the ego sowhen we have a defined center,
that door is, let's say, closed,so other people's energy, other
people's influence we couldalso call it has a harder time
penetrating through, doesn'tmean that your other people's
(35:41):
energy can't get through because, right, we can open a door, but
it has a harder time.
In undefined center.
The door is like cracked open,maybe halfway open, and then in
open center, which just means wedon't have any colored in
numbers in that energy center.
That door is wide open, soother people's energy can pretty
easily flow in.
(36:01):
So when we're talking in termsof like the G center, which is
your identity, your love anddirection maybe I'm not saying
this is true for you, but forundefined or open we typically
would say maybe in times of yourlife you've kind of struggled
with like where am I going?
What do I want besides justwhat everyone else is telling me
(36:25):
, what I want, like what do Iactually want and who am I
actually?
My sister has an undefined Gcenter and she struggled a lot
when she was younger with herself identity, like who am I?
And and where.
And for her case it was likewhat do I want to do with my
life?
Like, what is my purpose?
(36:45):
Where am I going in my life?
What do I want to do with mylife?
Like, what is my purpose?
Where am I going in my life?
Versus me, I have a defined Gcenter and I'm not talking in
terms of vocation, because Ididn't always know what I wanted
to do.
I actually went to school forspeech pathology and, like I was
very clear on that, got into ita couple of years later and was
pretty clear that I didn't wantto do it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's not necessarily job.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It's just I've always been pretty clear on who I am,
how I identify, even how I dress, like obviously that's changed
over my lifetime, but I've neverreally explored extremes Like I
was never like emo and goth andthen like super girly girl Like
(37:26):
.
I've always been like generally,girly girl if we're labeling it
, whereas my sister, like shewas kind of like tomboy and then
wanted to wear a dress and like.
So our undefined G centers.
One of the invitations isalways actually explore and play
around with like who, how youidentify and how you want to
(37:47):
identify.
And then the last thing I'llsay is we typically one of the
reasons I like this about yourchart is we say like, whenever
somebody has an open center,you're also.
That open center is kind oflike a mirror.
Also, that open center is kindof like a mirror.
(38:08):
So let's say, you and I areworking together.
Right, I have a defined Gcenter, you have an undefined.
So I'm kind of like my G center.
Energy is pouring into thatmirror and being reflected even
more strongly back to me, which,in terms of therapy, is kind of
cool.
Not that everyone that you meetis going to have a defined G
(38:28):
center or ego, but like that'spart of a therapist job.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Right Is to be a mirror and to create clarity, so
I totally love that.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Like being a mirror with the G center and the ego is
kind of cool in your specificrelationship aspect of therapy.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't know if this speaks to my chart, so you tell
me, but I, you know, just interms of what you were talking
about before, I think I havealways been very sure of myself.
I definitely have always haddirection.
I'm very, very determined andknow what I want.
But I do think, as I've gottenolder, something I'm learning
(39:12):
about myself is that I the ideasof the way I thought things
needed to be don't necessarilyneed to be that way, and that
there is more opportunity for mebeyond what I was supposed to
do, mm-hmm.
So that's something I'mdefinitely feeling so much more
(39:32):
open to now in my life and I'mdefinitely exploring in terms of
where I'm supposed to go and,um, just who I was supposed to
really be yeah and and that'syeah, that's one of the
invitations when you have theopen g center is really I love
(39:53):
that word exploring, justexploring like where do I want
to go?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
who do I want to be?
You have a lot, you have sevendefined centers, so like that,
the fineness, I always kind oflike say that's like your
defined centers ground you andbring you down to earth and
that's a lot of defined centersfor a human design chart.
Probably not like you can haveactually all defined centers,
(40:20):
but um, from the charts thatI've seen and worked with, like
that's you're definitely on likethe more defined areas or more
defined side.
So having that like and youhave a defined crown and Ajna
which crown?
And third eye, if you'rethinking in terms of chakras, so
the way in which you think ispretty I was gonna say, defined,
(40:45):
pretty consistent.
The way in which you like gaininsight and then process the
insight is pretty consistentalso great.
As a therapist, love that foryou.
But I always yeah, it's alwayslike finding that balance right.
So it's not saying like, oh, Ican't think of something a
different way.
(41:05):
It's actually finding thatbalance and asking yourself,
like you said, can I processthis information in a different
way, can?
I see this from a differentperspective or a different
background?
Or can I explore this?
Because we can get very stuckright With our I mean I would
(41:26):
word it with our defined centers.
We can get a little stuck inthe way that we do things and
the way that we process thoughtsand patterns and emotions.
So it's always finding that,you know, bridge.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Right, and part of part of growth, I think, is, you
know, incorporating what wewere talking about earlier.
Okay, well, is there somethingI can do different?
Should I try something new?
Right, it's okay, I'm defined,but that doesn't mean it's
closed forever or that there'sno room for exploration or
wonder.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Right.
I think that we can use thistool, we can use that as an
example, but really any toolsthat we've learned, that we've
picked up in our life, we canuse them as excuses, and use
them as explanations of like I'mjust this way, like, oh, my,
(42:22):
this center is defined, or I'm aLeo, or I'm a Enneagram,
whatever, or like Myers-Briggswhatever tool you want to say.
We can use that as an excuse orwe can use it as insight to
challenge ourselves.
Like and use it as insight tochallenge ourselves Like is this
actually me?
Can I respond differently?
(42:43):
That's different.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Definitely, definitely, definitely.
I was going to say we always.
It's very natural to look forthings that validates the story
that we're living by, versuschallenging it.
So again, it's the what'seasier right.
What's easier is oh, that fitsin with my story nicely, I'm
going to go with it, versuschallenging that idea and
(43:10):
pushing yourself a little bit ina different way.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that.
It's really a growth mindsetright.
Exactly, and we're always,we're always changing and
growing.
I mean, that's just life.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's the goal, right?
If you're not, then I thinkthat that needs to be questioned
.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know I yeah, it's hard for
me even to like put myself inthat I think a lot of it also is
, um, how we were raised,because I was raised like my mom
has such a growth mindset,maybe like too much of a growth
mindset, if that's a thing.
Um, and I can't yeah, I can'timagine staying stagnant.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
But I think so.
Just, you know, using that asan example, yes, Right, Maybe we
have that based on how we wereraised.
But then let's say you knowthat.
And let's say it's the oppositeway.
Right, you don't have a growthmindset because of the way you
were raised.
But if you know that you canchange that, right.
But a lot of people don't evenknow that, so they just live
(44:22):
that way, versus creating theawareness that this is why I
have this mindset and then okay,do I want to continue that way,
or is there another path for me?
Is there another way for me?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I love your message and your accountability and it's
very inspirational to me.
I think we can get very stuckin life is happening to me.
It's that quote right.
What if I shifted from life ishappening to me to life is
(44:59):
happening for me and reallytaking that accountability in,
how can I change or can can Ichange this, how can I change
this?
I can change this.
Yeah, taking action?
Yeah, for sure, oh, I love that.
So where can people find you ifthey are like, so here for it,
(45:21):
let me learn.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website at Jordan
Scholar LMHCcom, or on Instagramat Jordan Scholar.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Cool.
And last question yeah, ifyou're standing on a stage right
now and you had one messagethat you could share with the
world, what would that messagebe?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Do something different.
That is my biggest.
I mean I think I've said itright the whole episode.
But again, this little littlething can have the power to help
you think differently and alsoshift what's going on around you
.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Do something different we need that like
tattooed.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I think I'll get a new tattoo this weekend.
Thank you so much for coming on.
This is really thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
This was awesome.
Thank you thanks.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.