October 29, 2025 • 58 mins
Your energy is an investment—so why does it so often feel like the returns are missing? We sit down with naturopathic physician, therapist, coach, and award-winning author Deborah Zucker to unpack a humane, practical approach to vitality that actually fits real life. Deborah’s nine keys emerged from her own journey through chronic fatigue and depression, and they reframed wellness from a maze of fixes into a grounded relationship with self.
- Honoring unique life
- Facing and embracing shadows
- Self awareness
- Cultivating resilience
- Aligning with your yes
- Playful curiosity
- Discovering easeful discipline
- Inviting support and connection
- Living like you matter
If you’re ready to invest your energy where it grows, this conversation offers clear practices, fresh language, and a kinder path forward. Grab the free guide to the Nine Keys and find links to The Vitality Map and The Vitality Journal at https://vitalmedicine.com
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Good afternoon.
Welcome back to the podcast.
If you're listening to this inthe afternoon, I suppose uh
we're recording in theafternoon.
My name is Hannah, and I am thehost of Journey to Well, the
podcast.
And today we have a funconversation.
We're talking about vitality andwellness and all of these really
(01:33):
fun pillars with Deborah Zucker.
She's a naturopathic physician,a therapist, coach,
award-winning author.
We're gonna get to your secondbook that is coming out soon, or
has come out by the time thisairs, probably.
Um, and I'm very excited to getinto this conversation with you.
She's also a one-three sacralgenerator in human design.
(01:57):
So we'll weave our little humandesign in uh info in there as
well.
But Deborah, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast.
And my first question really iswho is Deborah?
What lights you up?
Maybe even what's recently beenlighting you up the most, and
then we will dive into theconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Thanks, Hannah, for that introduction.
It's good to be here.
Who am I?
That's a big question.
It's my favorite question.
Yeah, well, I'll just give someof the stats.
I live in Bellingham,Washington, with my husband and
five-year-old daughter, Amy.
And um, that's one thing thatreally lights me up being a
(02:43):
mama.
And yeah, I came into that laterin life.
And it's just been, yeah, suchan anchor for me of what really
matters.
And yeah, bringing balance to ummy other passions and my work as
well, and putting it intoperspective.
(03:03):
And um yeah, some of my passionsoutside of work, which we're
gonna talk a lot about, is um, Ijust love being outdoors, uh,
hiking and getting into thewilderness, water, uh,
gardening.
Um, yeah, just those are some ofwhat get woven into my days very
regularly.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
And so grounding and really helps create some extra
balance, right?
Yes.
It can be a little, I'm surelaunching a book, I've never
launched a book, but I canimagine that it's quite
stressful.
So to have those tools to comeback to, I'm sure is is a great
(03:45):
practice, wellness practice.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yes, it's it's yeah, having now gone through this
twice.
I I just last week my secondbook came out, and uh the the
vitality journal is the name ofmy companion book.
And um, and yeah, I'm justfinding I'm doing this launch so
differently than last time.
And it it has been just thishumbling reminder of, okay, like
(04:10):
live the principles that I'mbringing forth in this resource
for the world, right?
And and just find a way of doingthis that's in congruence with
my own well-being.
And and to watch when sort ofthe expectations or pressures
that I place on myself, youknow, sort of take me out of
that foundation of honoring thefeedback that's there for me
(04:33):
around what I really need andhow I need to be doing this at
this stage in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
It's so interesting.
I know as a coach and as a guideas well, there's so many aspects
that when I'm having aconversation with someone, that
they remind me that I teachthese clients of mine that I
maybe fell away from or that I'mnot putting as much mindfulness
(05:01):
into and really living becausethere's I know you know, there's
a completely different, there'sa complete difference between
knowing the information thatwe're gonna talk about today,
and then actually what I wouldsay embodying, embodying this
information or living thisinformation or these tools or
these pillars.
(05:22):
And it's really fun actually tohave these moments of reminders
and then reminding yourself togive yourself grace.
You tell your clients that allthe time, or you tell your
readers that all the time, butto actually give yourself that
grace and that compassion iscompletely, I don't think we
(05:44):
ever get there.
Like we, you know, that's why Icall this podcast Journey to
Well.
We don't ever arrive where, youknow, now I'm now I'm a coach,
I'm an author, I'm I've writtenmy second book, I'm a therapist,
I have all of these accolades,now I'm perfect.
We don't ever arrive there.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
And it's a good reminder.
No, and just to really, yeah,just completely dispel that myth
or that idealized reality thateven if we're not conscious of
can sometimes just be there forus.
And instead, yeah, reallyrecognize the journey.
And and that's you know, that'sreally what underlies the um
nine keys that we'll be touchinginto today is is that you know,
(06:26):
we may feel like we're on top ofthe world and we've figured it
all out and we've got our acttogether, and then something
happens in our lives and the ruggets pulled out from underneath
us, and we find ourselves on ourknees again.
And so that's just the nature oflife, and you know, that we keep
evolving and changing, it'sunpredictable, everything keeps
changing, and we're living in acomplex world, you know, with
(06:49):
other human beings and and anunfolding reality that we can't
control.
And and so for us to insteadfocus on that deeper foundation
of our relationship with ourselfand how we care for ourselves
and cultivating that resiliencethat allows us to find our feet
again, to steer ourselves backwhen when we find that life has
(07:12):
sort of pulled us away from whatis really aligned with our own
vitality.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
You gave me a description of the book, and and
it says tools that cultivateresilience and advocate
meaningful change.
And resilience is such a potentword, uh, and cultivate is such
a potent word.
I'm curious if you could pleaseshare the background in that
(07:39):
description of the book andreally what that means to you in
this stage of your life.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah, well, the book was born from my own healing
journey that began in my early20s when I spiraled down into
chronic fatigue and depressionand lots of other symptoms, and
sort of found myself alldisoriented of what is going on.
I, you know, I'm newly in myyoung adulthood, sort of finding
my way in the world, and theninstead find myself in bed.
(08:09):
And and so that journey reallyum awoke in me a calling.
You know, I found thateverything I began to learn for
myself, excuse me, I was wantingto share with others, but it
also sort of brought forwardthis question for me of what's
missing from the conversationand what are we not being taught
(08:32):
when we're younger around how tocare for ourselves that could
bring me or any of us into thesekind of bewildering journeys
with our own well-being.
And and you know, that led me toto all the different trainings
of naturopathic medicine andcounseling and coaching and all
sorts of things I've gatheredover the years as tools and and
(08:53):
capacities from that kind ofexpertise.
But my own healing journey hasbeen right there along with it,
with that, with those questionsreally alive and discovering
what have been the reallyimpactful things that made a
difference in my own vitalityand well-being that I've not
really seen emphasized as youknow, the foundations of what we
(09:15):
really need to be addressing.
And so those got distilled intothose nine keys.
And um, those words that youthrew out, you know, cultivate
and resilience, those are thoseare part of some of the keys and
and really, yeah, kind of partof the orientation of how do we
come into a really intentional,conscious, and even reverent,
(09:38):
you know, relationship with howwe guide and honor our our own
lives.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
Wow.
That's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And um, let's start kind ofwalking through some of the
keys.
So there are nine, and I'm justgonna read them and then we'll
pick a few of them.
Um, honoring unique life, facingand embracing shadows,
self-awareness, cultivatingresilience, obviously my fave.
(10:10):
Um aligning with your yes,that's super fun, playful
curiosity, discovering easefuldiscipline, inviting support and
connection, and living like youmatter.
You're aligning your yes isreally bringing up human design
for me because in human designwe talk a lot about um,
(10:32):
especially for you, you're asacral generator.
And we have all of thesedifferent shapes in our human
design chart, and they're calledenergy centers.
And our sacral center is verymuch what you would think of
with the sacral chakra if you'refamiliar with the chakra system,
because the um human designactually pulls from the chakra
system.
So our sacral center is one ofour largest motor centers in
(10:56):
human design.
It's really this um when we talkabout like trusting your gut and
um following your gut as asacral authority, we call it.
That's really your how you bestmake decisions.
And a lot of my coaching andguiding in human design with my
(11:17):
sacral authorities, I'm also asacral authority, uh, is really
feeling into what a yes feelslike in your body and what a no
feels like in your body, andreally leaning into discovering
or even just exploring what ayes, what little yeses feel
(11:40):
like, like what color shirt do Iwant to wear?
Do I want to wear black?
Do I want to wear white?
And feeling what that yes feelslike, what that no feels like,
and then being able to use thatknowledge, that communication
with your body in largerdecisions that you have to make.
So that's a little human designaligning with your yes, but I'm
(12:02):
I'm curious how that shows up inyour book.
And I'm you and I talked before,um, you don't particularly have
a huge background of knowledgein in human design.
You're familiar with it.
You've you've done like thechart poll, but you've never
even like not had like a fullreading.
So I'm curious how that landswith you and how that might
align with how you wrote thatchapter of the book.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Yes.
Yes.
I love it.
I um yeah, this this key is oneof my favorites of the nine.
Um one, because it wasabsolutely pivotal in my own
healing and emergence from thechronic fatigue.
And and I found it, you know,for myself as well as others as
(12:45):
being a big missing piece of theconversation when we are, you
know, in times of depression,burnout, exhaustion, sort of
that that deeper misalignmentthat can be there, but that in
our sort of way our culture isnow oriented, primarily in
healthcare, you know, it getsdiagnosed as depression,
(13:06):
anxiety, you know, things likethat, that that really miss the
point that actually we'regetting feedback that something
is misaligned.
And so I like to think of it as,you know, are we are we
investing our life energy wherewe're getting returns?
And if we're not, then we'reinvesting our life energy where
(13:29):
it's just like going down thehole in the life bucket, right?
And and that happens for so manyof us.
And and like you were saying,like aligning with your yes is
about the little choices everyday, and it's also about the
bigger life callings and thebigger things, the significant
relationships in our lives, thework we're invested in, where
we're living, you know, just thebigger context that that you
(13:53):
know shape how we're spendingour days and where our attention
and energy is going.
And what we want is to bealigned, where you know, we're
investing our energy and itfeeds back.
So we're filling our well aswe're engaging and showing up in
the world.
And that's actually possible.
I think, you know, for somefolks who might be maybe have a
(14:13):
lot of misalignment in life,like that might feel like, is
that even possible?
Where, you know, it's not like Ihave to be exhausted when I go
to work and I don't have to, youknow, feel this sort of drag in
life, but actually you can sortof discover how to live that
way.
And it takes courage and ittakes vulnerability and it takes
(14:35):
that discernment, like you'retalking about, of really
learning to listen to what thatfeedback is and to prune away.
I like the analogy of pruning,prune away the things that that
aren't aligned, little snips orbigger cuts that will free up
the energy to then be availablefor what is aligned.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
You said something interesting earlier of these of
our body is communicating to usand even in the feeling a lack
of energy, like dragging to workinstead of maybe writing that
off as I just didn't sleep well,or uh it's no big deal, or like
(15:18):
this pain that I'm feeling likeis no big deal.
I'm curious if the book reallyexplores, or even how you've
explored this in your life ofwhere does that journey really
start?
Of beginning to notice and payattention.
And that's really the firstpart, but then we have the next
(15:40):
of like, well, now what do I dowith it?
Like, what what if I'm noticingthat uh actually work is really
not lighting me up, but that'swhat's paying my bills.
That's what I've always done.
That's you know, fill in theblank, whatever the reason is
that you wouldn't leave maybe inthis season.
What do we do with that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Yes.
So um keys number three and fourkind of get at what you're
primarily what you're justtalking about.
So key three is strengtheningyour self-awareness muscles.
And this is an acknowledgementthat most of us were not brought
up being taught how to actuallylisten to the feedback that's
(16:23):
there in our body and being24-7.
It's like a foreign language formany of us.
And and I love, you know, howyou just gave that example
earlier around like, do I wantto wear white?
Do I want to wear red?
You know, just like, you know,just like recognize, and that's
why it's like strengthening theself-awareness muscles that if
we really haven't been taught,if it is like a foreign language
(16:44):
to us, we need to start justwith that curiosity and openness
of like a beginning learner, andjust begin to hone that
discernment through the littlechoices every day and the bigger
ones and and start to listen forwhere do I feel that in my body,
or or how do I know whensomething feels right or
(17:04):
doesn't.
Um, and then also along withthat, so that gets more to like
the alignment part, but there'salso, you know, just that we're
getting feedback on what isworking for us and what's not,
like with what we're puttinginto our bodies or the things
we're doing.
And and the feedback, you know,we might be interpreting it in a
(17:24):
way that's not actually what ourfeedback's trying to say, you
know, again, because of themessages we've received in our
culture.
You know, I mean, a very commonexample is, you know, like a
headache.
Like we might, you know,interpret a headache as
something I'm getting sick orsomething like that, or or um,
or you don't even even thinkabout what's going on with it.
(17:47):
You just take a pill to get ridof the pain, right?
But actually, maybe thatheadache is letting you know
that you have a sensitivity tocoffee or another food, or you
actually need more than sixhours of sleep at night, you
know, or you know, just like youknow, but but we might not even
be attuned that way.
So this key opens up thatcuriosity of starting to track,
(18:11):
you know, when we have symptoms,we we have particular feedback,
like getting curious, what mightthat be telling me?
And and opening and watchingsort of what's happening earlier
in the day before I experiencethat, what's happening after.
And just it's like opening into,yeah, it's like we're sort of a
science experiment.
Like, how do we just begin tolearn more about this body and
(18:33):
being?
Because I live in it 24-7 and Iwant to feel, you know, more
empowered.
Because this, when we becomemore empowered in this way,
we're less able to be sort ofthrown around by the latest
health fads and by all theadvice we get from others, and
instead, like really own likeI'm my best health guide.
No one else is getting thisfeedback 24-7.
(18:56):
And so it starts there, youknow.
That's why it's key numberthree.
Like it's a really foundationalpart of how we orient towards
our our lives in a more uhagentic empowered way.
SPEAKER_01 (19:09):
Yeah, I was actually gonna ask, I assume that these
keys kind of build on each otherand we start with the foundation
and then you kind of work yourway up.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean, they're all interwoven, but but
they were they were placed, youknow, in the in that order on
purpose to kind of create someof the foundations that then
carry forward into the otherkeys later on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So then so then moving on, let'slet's just hit on four, which is
cultivating resilience, becausethat's such an interesting
resilience is such aninteresting topic to me.
Um, and I had it explained onetime.
And it's sometimes we thinkresilience is like not letting
(19:55):
things bother us, or or likehaving this kind of like really
maybe strong shell where ournervous system doesn't easily
get dysregulated.
A lot of times when I talk aboutresilience or in my world, it
resilience and nervous systemare are very paired together.
And so, in this way that it wasexplained to me, a lot of times,
(20:19):
you know, we think that beingresilient means that you're not
dysregulated ever.
Or maybe in another way toexplain it is like things just
don't bother you.
And that's not what resilienceis.
In this description, is actuallyresilience is the ability to
come back to regulation when youare dysregulated, and that is
(20:43):
such a powerful description, andI really want to like pick apart
the cultivation ahead of thatword resilience in this chapter
or in this key.
Um because cultivation to me isuh I very much think of like
gardening and planting, and likeyou're you're tilling the soil
(21:05):
and you're bringing it up.
And the reason that you'rebringing, bringing that like
bottom soil up to the surface isbecause you're creating this
better environment for yourplants or your trees to live in.
And that's really what I thinkof when I think of cultivation.
So I'm very curious how thischapter unfolds and what
(21:26):
cultivating resilience means toyou.
And also I'm always curious ofthe personal connection.
So, like what pain points inyour life really happened or
occurred for you to feel likethis is a really important key
to talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Yes, I I I mean, I love the way you spoke about
cultivation and and resilienceand sort of the
misunderstandings that can bethere around it and and
misunderstandingmisunderstandings about the
nervous system too.
And I um yeah, so you know, wetouched into this a bit before,
(22:06):
but just to reiterate some, youknow, there's there's no such
thing as a stress-free life,there's no such thing as a
predictable life, and andresilience is what allows us to
navigate in that um, yeah, inthe constant change and in in
(22:26):
that um, sorry, I just got alittle distracted.
There's some noise outside.
So I just want to name that,that I just lost my thread.
So um so so resilience.
So um the the cultivation of itis is an acknowledgement that we
(22:47):
are not um, we don't just comeinto this world like knowing all
the skills and capacities toguide ourselves in a resilient
way in life, to navigate all theunexpected things.
And so it opens us up to againthat orientation of like, okay,
I'm a beginner, like what can Ilearn here to feel more adept at
(23:09):
being able to regulate my stateof being?
And I think of that regulationas happening on all different
levels, you know, physically,mentally, emotionally,
spiritually.
How do I consciously choose toshift my state of being at any
given time?
And and I think this day andage, you know, a really big one
(23:30):
is is around the nervous system,because so many of us, with just
what's going on in the world andand just the way that our our,
particularly in this culture,you know, we've gotten busier
and busier and busier and morepressures financially and
otherwise.
And it's just like all thesethings build up to have us be
(23:52):
living, you know, I think of itlike a thermostat, with the
thermostat kind of stepped wayup here with our nervous system.
So we're kind of living in moreof a hyper-vigilant,
hyper-aroused, you know, state,so many of us.
Um, and and to learn how toshift that state.
And so this, you know, comeswith different practices, and
(24:12):
there's a myriad of them, butyou know, different breathing
practices, uh, differentgrounding or mindfulness
practices, yoga, like there'sthere's so many different things
or simply getting outside andorienting towards the natural
world.
There's so many ways that we canfind those threads to come back
and kind of shift thatthermostat level.
(24:34):
But it's not about like what youjust said, it's not about then
like trying to stay therebecause actually, vitality is
about having the flexibility andhaving the full range of
capacity of response and arousaland ability to engage with
different kinds of energies andstates of being.
So it's not about coming to somestatus quo stuck place, but it's
(24:57):
about having the tools to beable to guide ourselves back to
a different state of being whenwe choose to.
And so that resilience is againabout that empowerment.
And it's connected to the keybefore, where when we increase
our self-awareness, we canactually notice the feedback
that tells us, oh, like actuallyI might need to do this right
(25:18):
now to steer myself back into amore sort of grounded um uh
place where I feel like I havemore capacity to engage with
whatever is going on for me.
And um, and it's not just thenervous system, it's really, you
know, all different aspects ofour lives.
Like, how do we guide ourselves?
How do we feel like we have thatcapacity not to just be stuck or
(25:43):
not to, you know, when the ruggets pulled out that we can't
find our feet again, or when weget steered way over here and we
can't find our way back?
That's what resilience is about.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
What has been one of your most powerful or your
favorite tools that youpersonally use to bring yourself
back or ground yourself or umyou know, regulate yourself,
whatever wording you want touse.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Yeah.
I mean, one thing that I Ireally try to emphasize with
myself, and I think is is soimportant for most of us these
days is is to have you know thetools that we can do anytime,
anywhere, and that don't requireus to feel like we have to like
set aside an hour or block outtime or pay money to someone,
(26:32):
you know, but just so I I reallylove you know just the simple
things that I can do throughoutmy days.
And you know, big one for me,like I mentioned before, is is
uh nature and the outdoors.
So even if I can get outside, ifif it's a full day, if I can get
outside for a minute, a fewminutes, and walk around a
(26:54):
little bit, or even just likestare up at I'm looking out my
window right now, so stare up,stare up at at the trees and the
wind blowing the leaves around,you know, or the clouds.
Um, just to kind of find thoseanchor points in nature is a
really helpful thing.
But if I can't, if I can't getoutside, um, breath is another
(27:17):
one that I go to all the time,like really feeling the way my
in-breath pushes my lower ribsapart.
And for those of you who thatmight not feel as easy to
access, like putting your yourhands around your lower ribs
with your fingers forward andyour thumbs kind of looped
(27:37):
around your back gives you thatsort of um tactile anchor that
then you can breathe into andimagine pushing your hands apart
as you breathe in, um, slowingthe breath rate down, you know,
simply counting can be easy,like counting to five or six as
you breathe in, and five or sixas you breathe out.
(27:59):
It's just again a very simplething you can do anytime.
And then another, I'll just givethis last one, just another
favorite is um just finding myfeet in contact with the ground.
And if I'm inside and shoes andsocks or whatever, you know,
imagining my feet barefoot onthe earth outside, and and
(28:20):
opening to like all thesensations that I can feel
through the soles of my feet.
And any of these practices canbe a minute or less, you know,
if you don't have much time, butit can be enough to like it's
almost like pressing pause onthe fullness of life,
redirecting to the body,redirecting to nature.
(28:42):
And and that's enough to have anit's almost like an outbreath.
Like the nervous system can go,ah, right, here I am in this
moment.
And it gives some space andspaciousness to whatever it is
that I'm navigating or we'renavigating, and and allows kind
of I find it just like arecalibration of what really
(29:03):
matters right now.
Like, you know, if I'm, youknow, and and sometimes when
when when folks are starting toengage with these kinds of, you
know, little mini practices,even setting an alarm just as a
reminder, you know, to rememberto do them can be helpful at
first.
And then over time, I I found itlike over time it just starts to
become a little more automaticwhere it's like, oh, time to
(29:25):
pause.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
I love all of those examples.
Thank you.
And thank you for reminding thatit doesn't have to be this long
practice either.
Um, I would only add like thisis this can be anywhere too.
And you already said that, butlike the example of you know,
you're sitting at work at yourdesk, you can take a minute and
(29:50):
feel your feet.
Nobody even knows what you'redoing.
You can just even pretend to bereading an email and and do this
practice, or if you uh happen tobe blessed to have a window in
your office, you know, take aminute and just look outside at
the sky or the clouds or thetrees or whatever you can see.
And so it doesn't, I I agreewith you.
(30:12):
Sometimes these practices wemaybe it's the way they're
explained to us, or maybe it'sjust that we assume that they
have to be these long in-depthjourneys, and they can be, we
can certainly take an hour andgo for a wonderful walk and and
do that kind of walkingmeditation of noticing the
(30:34):
leaves and noticing the bark onthe trees, but it can also be
just just a minute, and I lovethat reminder because it it kind
of dispels that oh, I don't havetime excuse.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Yeah, thank you.
Which is real, you know, it's areal thing, particularly when
when we're just getting startedkind of integrating more of
these things in our life.
That it does feel like there'sno time often or we don't have
the resources or yeah.
And so yeah, just start with thelow low threshold, try a minute
and see what happens.
And then you could, you know,expand over time.
(31:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Love that.
So I have to ask about playfulcuriosity.
Again, two very, very fun words.
So um, what is this?
How did it come uh come about inyour journey?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
Yes.
So yeah, so this is key six,experimenting with playful
curiosity.
And yeah, this is another onethat I love that also, you know,
I find for myself, it's like,oh, the weights off my
shoulders.
And I see that with clients allthe time.
It's like this this key takesthe rule book away.
It takes that pressure of tryingto get things right or feeling
(31:49):
like you might fail, which somany of us have in our self-care
journeys.
And instead really opens up theorientation that, you know,
you're always changing, life isalways changing.
Let's orient towards ourself-care in that same way, in a
flexible, adaptable way.
And we can bring play into it,and we can bring, you know, our
(32:11):
openness and curiosity thatwe're learning as we go.
So rather than like trying to,you know, make a habit change
where it's like it's, you know,there's this rigidness and it
feels like we have to willourselves into submission and
and it feels so hard.
Instead, we design an experimentand we do it with you know that
playful, curious energy.
(32:33):
We try something new that maybewe've been wanting to do, but we
do it in a creep, we bring ourcreativity in and we design an
experiment.
And, you know, I like to say twoweeks because it's long enough
that it's like it doesn't createthat overwhelming sort of, you
know, it's too much, and so wenever get started.
(32:54):
But it's sorry, it's shortenough that doesn't create that
overwhelm, but it's long enoughthat we begin to get feedback
and it sets us in motion.
And so the idea with this isthat, you know, if you do a
two-week experiment, that at theend of two weeks you assess.
You're like, what did I learnhere?
What's working, what's notworking?
If everything's working great,you just continue.
(33:14):
And if it's not working sogreat, you tweak it or you scrap
it and you start a newexperiment.
But it just staying in motionreally helps us to like, yeah,
actually engage with life aslife is and not get stuck and
not sort of create a hurdlethat's way too high.
And we get to learn and adapt aswe go.
(33:36):
And and this one just feelshuge.
It like, you know, it takesaway, I think, what can be so
unhealthy in our journeys withhealth, you know, all the
pressures and all the shamevoices and self-judgments and
all that, and just puts us inthis like, I'm gonna try this
out and I'm gonna see whathappens and I'm gonna learn as I
go and have fun with it.
And yeah, it's it's a kind of arewiring of not only our our
(34:01):
relationship with self-care, butbut you know, with life, that we
can actually live that way too.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
It really brings me back to the third key of
self-awareness.
And instead of, again, if we'reusing the example of a diet or
or a or a or a food change, uminstead of being very rigid of
like, I can't have sugar, let'ssay, or I'm doing the
(34:28):
Mediterranean diet or keto, andbeing so rigid in that when we
can allow some playful curiosityand then bring in that
self-awareness of like how howis my body actually feeling
doing keto?
I went vegan for a while.
This is a silly example, but Iwent vegan for a while for for
(34:50):
multiple reasons, and I am avery curious person, I think by
nature.
And so part of the reason wasjust to explore how I felt
eating vegan, not eating meat,and not having um animal
products.
And um a lot of vegan products,like the pre-made ones are soy.
(35:12):
So I just I blew up.
Like I think I gained, I don'tknow how much weight I gained,
but I like did not lose weightgoing vegan.
And I didn't feel any bettereither.
And you know, that's just onesilly example.
Maybe it's not, maybe it's notthat silly, but it's one example
of when we do things thatsociety says are better, not
(35:35):
mindfully.
Um we might not actually takethat time to check in with
ourselves and be like, wait, amI feeling better?
Does this work for me?
Because it's not gonna work.
There's a reason that we have somany different diets, there's a
reason that we have so manydifferent workout plans, and
this person is saying, you know,this is the way to lose 100
(35:57):
pounds, and then this person issaying that's absolutely BS
because not everything works foreveryone.
And I love that like playfulcuriosity.
And and as someone that ispretty serious, I think I've
been called very serious in mylife.
I view myself as pretty serious,and I can definitely be very
rigid.
That's such a beautiful uhreminder to me personally.
(36:20):
So thank you for that reminderto be curious and make it
creative and be playful with itand bring a little levity to
whatever goal you have.
And I like the two-week thing,that's also very cool because
then it's not like I have to doketo for two months, and that's
(36:42):
a big time commitment.
That's a big commitment ingeneral.
Uh, just two weeks, you know,see what happens.
Notice what you notice.
I like that.
That's a really fun one.
Cool.
So let's do one more.
I really am drawn to nine,living like you matter.
What dive in, dive into thatone.
(37:03):
What does this mean?
What does this mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Yes.
This one um to me is, you know,it's nine, but it also brings it
full circle.
You know, we didn't we didn'ttalk about key one, and I'll
just mention that briefly.
So key one is honoring yourunique life, and you know,
that's just you know, rootingour relationship with um
(37:27):
self-care and with our lives inthat not taking life for granted
and and recognizing, you know,that we're in contact with our
own mortality.
We don't know how long we'regonna be here, and we're each
unique.
And um, and and so self-carethen becomes really about kind
of taking on that responsibilityfor stewarding this life with
(37:52):
from a place of reverence, froma place of of really honoring.
No one else is here to care forthis life but us.
And so key number nine, that'sjust a brief description, but
key number nine, living like youmatter, takes that into the
broader context.
So it's recognizing no no one'shere by accident.
(38:12):
Like we each matter, we're eacha part of that web of life.
And to live that way, where manyof us, I think particularly
women, and and I know I thinkyour audience is primarily women
and mine is as well, you know,to really recognize so many of
us are wired to put care forothers and care for the world
(38:34):
before care for self.
That it's just, you know, it'slike it's it's really um
amplified all over the place,you know, like the accolades of
like, oh my goodness, you're soselfless.
And and and and what happenswith that over time is that we
run ourselves into the ground.
It's not sustainable.
We need to care for ourselves,to fill our own wells, so that
(38:58):
we can continue to show up, carefor others and care for the
world, and to be the fullestpresence and light, you know,
and version of ourselves that wecan be.
And that that's living like youmatter, that each of us really
honors our own lives in thatway, that we include in the
service in the world that we'reoffering, you know, whether it's
(39:21):
as a parent, whether it's, youknow, as you know, someone who's
out there on a global scaleworking or or you know, focused
on the community around them,you know, wherever your your
energy and light is drawn, youknow, as as your unique calling
in this life, that yeah, you arethe most vital, fullest form of
(39:42):
yourself that you can be.
And that's really aboutattending to your own well-being
and all these ways that we'vebeen touching into today, and
um, and not putting yourself,you know, on the backseat that
after you do these other things,then you'll care for yourself.
But actually, this is the numberone priority, otherwise you
(40:03):
won't really be able to show upas as you're able to, as is your
birthright.
SPEAKER_01 (40:10):
Wow, that's a beautiful reminder.
Um it's your birthright.
That was beautiful.
Um, how do you interweave thisreverence, living like you
matter in your everyday life,taking care of yourself so that
you can better show up for oneof your passions of your family
and your kid?
(40:30):
What does that look like in yourin your personal day-to-day?
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Yeah, you know, it's it's finding those things.
So for for me, as I said before,one one really big anchor for me
is time in nature.
So for me, you know, anon-negotiable is regular time
out on hikes and just, you know,I live in a place where there's
trails all over the place.
So it's it's just like that,that for me is is one of one of
(40:59):
the threads for me that isnon-negotiable.
Um, and and another thing thatis really vital for me that I've
learned over the years is I Ineed to do some kind of movement
every single day and doing it,you know, as early in the
morning as I can.
Well, not you know, getting goodsleep, but just more more of
like the first thing in themorning exercise works the best
(41:22):
for me.
So it's like those are just twoexamples of some of the things
that really help to shape mycapacity to show up for my my
daughter, my family, for and formy clients and all the work that
I do.
And um, that gives me that thatvitality and grounding.
There, there are a number ofother things, you know, the
(41:44):
community and friends and youknow, other other passions that
I engage with too, but it's it'smaking sure that, you know, and
we we skipped over key eight,which is about support, but it's
it's recognizing part of it toois that, you know, yes, I'm the
one responsible for mywell-being, but I also don't
need to be in it alone, andthat's not sustainable either.
(42:08):
That I have my team of support,both professional and personal,
that I lean into so that I'm notalone in it and I'm getting the
support to um allow myself tothrive and to prioritize the
things that that I need to dofor myself.
And and I know, you know, it'sit's definitely having engaged
in these teachings, written myfirst book before I became a
(42:30):
mom, you know, it's definitely,you know, been very illuminating
for me of like the differentkinds of dance and ways of
engaging, you know, particularlywith a young child and and just
how how to keep doing thatbecause it's this, it's the same
thing.
Like it's not it's notsustainable to not be giving
myself the the time and andattention, um, even though you
(42:53):
know it's very easy to do again,because there's so many
expectations and and needs ofothers that um yeah, can shape
that.
And so finding that balancebecause it's not about not
attending to the needs of othersor caring for our loved ones.
And it's it's very much aboutthat, but it's like just
recognizing how do we keep doingthat in a sustainable way.
SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
And sustainable, I mean, that goes back all the way
to the beginning of theconversation with really the
stemming of this book was waschronic fatigue for you, and and
that's a huge that's a hugelesson that we learn in life.
I think we all hit this point atsome point because we're not
robots and eventually you'regonna burn out, and learning how
(43:44):
to create more sustainability inwherever you are at life,
whether that's parenting or yourjob or your relationship or all
of them, or even the sustainablerelationship with yourself.
And it's not it's finding thatbalance, it's not giving
yourself everything, you know,taking like again five hours
(44:07):
every day for yourself.
That's maybe not a sustainablebalance.
Um, but finding that balance foryou and what works for you, and
then the tools that work foryou, it's a really fun game that
we have the opportunity to kindof play.
SPEAKER_00 (44:23):
Yes, I yeah, I love that you just phrased it like
this.
It is, yeah.
I really do feel like it's likea game and to open in in that
way with that curiosity and andplayfulness again, to find like
what works for you.
You know, I gave some examplesfor myself, but those might not
work well for for others, youknow.
So just to find and and explorelike what are your things, like
(44:45):
and and to listen for thatfeedback and honor it.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Some things, some other ideas, just because I am
such a tactile person.
So if you're listening and andyou're like, I've already tried
hiking and that doesn't work forme or whatever, um, some other
ideas, some things that workreally well for me that I really
love is my nighttime routine ispretty sacred to me.
And I have it pretty much everynight, no matter what time I'm
(45:14):
getting home.
And for me right now, it'slooking like red light.
I always do uh like literal redlight bulbs, so not red light
therapy, but just having the redlight on.
Um, there's so much sciencebehind that that I'm not gonna
take time to list.
But um red light, I'm doing likea Shakti mat, like the
acupressure mat for my back, andthat's really helping me sleep
(45:37):
very well.
I do red light therapy as well.
Um, reading is really nice.
Really anything that gets me offmy phone, and I really try to
stick to uh, and you know, likeeven that word, I don't even try
anymore.
Like I just get off my phone.
It's not, I think at some pointin that self-awareness journey,
(45:59):
at some point we go from I tryto do this to this is a
non-negotiable.
And you said that about gettingoutside for you.
That's your non-negotiablebecause you have found that it
makes such a difference.
And if you're in that state of,I'm still trying, you're
figuring it out.
And you have to find what isyour non-negotiable.
(46:20):
And I think you have to do thosethings for a little bit to
figure out that it's yournon-negotiable.
But that's definitely one ofmine is my nighttime routine and
doing the red light and andreading and taking time really
just to sit with myself.
I've been really enjoyingmeditating at night again
lately, because I'm normally amorning meditator.
Um, so those are those are someother ideas of just fun, of fun
(46:43):
things to play around with andreally notice.
Again, going back to all ofthese keys, like noticing how
that's showing up, how you'reshowing up the next day when you
take that 30 minutes before yougo to sleep for yourself, versus
when you come to the end of theday and and you like tuck in
your kid and run to bed, put onyour PJs and just pass out,
(47:04):
notice how you feel the next daywith those two different evening
routines.
Um so anyway, just a few moreideas that that have worked
really well for me and and andspoke to me.
Um as we wrap up, I want to justopen it up.
I know that we didn't go throughall of them.
Is there any key that you feellike we missed or any piece of a
(47:28):
key that you really would loveto share before we we end with
our final question?
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
Yeah, let's go a little bit um more into key
number eight.
So that's inviting support andconnection.
And yeah, I just I just want toemphasize this at the end of our
conversation because of howincredibly vital it is that we
cultivate that team of support,that we find the people who feel
(47:58):
really resonant, who can holdus, you know, with compassion
and where it feels safe, wherewe feel seen to unfold, you
know, in our own healing andevolution.
And and I think so often, youknow, our health journeys, we
can have practitioners who,yeah, we've sort of, you know,
either put up on high on apedestal or, you know, we don't
(48:22):
really feel like they hear us,or or there's not that, yeah,
that sense of safety.
And I just want to emphasizelike to really own like your own
um, yeah, your own truth in thatand and that you can find the
people who do resonate.
It can take some advocacy andsort of some energy initially,
but what a difference it makes,you know, to find the right
(48:44):
people for your team of support,both professionally and
personally.
And um, and to yeah, come out ofthat isolation and not feel like
you need to be in it alone.
It makes such a huge differencebecause we're relational
creatures and we need eachother.
We're not meant to be in italone.
And along those lines, too, I'ma I'm a huge advocate, and this
(49:06):
is part of my business modelbecause it's made such a big
difference for me of comingtogether in community.
So having having circles of, youknow, I primarily work with
women, so having circles ofwomen that are on a healing
journey together.
And whether it's virtual or inperson, like again, I just I
(49:26):
I've seen how much it amplifiesour capacity to actualize the
changes we seek and to healdeeply and to really address
those core, you know, like wewere talking about before, those
core misalignments, or tonavigate through big life
transitions gracefully and withmore ease and sense of clarity
(49:48):
around what is aligned for menow.
Um, so I just wanted to put thatout there too, that again, I
think modern day culture hasgotten away from some of these
things that are more primal andessential for us as humans and
and in our healing journeys andum or even just life journeys.
You know, I kind of think of ourlife journeys are healing
(50:09):
journeys, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um yeah, so I just wanted tojust name that because it's such
a such a passion of mine.
And it and it's yeah, I justfeel um like it's also part of
what can be missing, you know,from the conversation as well as
from people's um, yeah, justjourneys of wellness.
(50:31):
So yeah, yeah, just yeah,journeys of wellness.
SPEAKER_01 (50:36):
Well, yeah.
I was actually just having thisconversation last night that
there's really only so far youcan go on your healing journey
alone because we are wounded andlike our trauma, if you want to
go in kind of that shadow side,we're wounded in relationships,
we're hurt in relationships ofall kinds, not just your
(50:58):
intimate ones of like apartnership.
Um, we're we're wounded inrelationships, but we're also
healed in relationships.
And we're not created to do thislife alone.
And I and I truly believe thatwe're not created to heal alone.
We can't, we actually cannotheal alone.
(51:18):
Uh, there's only a certain levelthat we can get to when we're
alone, and that's a whole lessonof learning how to reach out and
and vulnerability and learning,uh experiencing trusting someone
on that level when it'ssomething, you know, when you
have maybe been hurt, but you Iwould argue that you cannot
(51:43):
possibly heal without otherpeople, and and that's a a
really brave step that you take.
And you will find those people.
You will.
Maybe you find the wrong people,and they teach you that they're
not the people.
That's not the wrong person.
That's the wrong practitionerfor me, that's the wrong guide
(52:05):
for me, and that's okay.
And then that will just be onemore no that's gonna lead you to
your next person that reallysees you.
And I tell one of my bestfriends this all the time.
We always send each other littlethe little memes back and forth,
but it's true that um there'sbeen so much healing in that
relationship specifically thatlike she doesn't even know that
(52:27):
she's you know, she's helping meheal and that I know that I'm
helping her heal.
And and that, oh God, if I couldgive that to everyone, like
that's that's the dream.
That's really truly the dream isto find your tribe of people
that you can heal with and thatare willing.
And oh my gosh, so many things.
But thank you for bringing thatup, especially what a beautiful
(52:50):
way to close and what abeautiful reminder.
Um yeah, thank you.
I appreciate you.
So we have so many fun ways toconnect with you.
Obviously, we can get your book,uh, either of the books or both,
but where do you primarily hangout?
If someone listening wouldreally like to connect with you
or even just learn more fromyou, where can they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (53:15):
Uh my website is vitamedicine.com.
And uh I actually have a specialpage for podcast listeners
that's vitalmedicine.com slashpodcast, where um I have a free
guide to the nine keys thatwe've talked about, um, uh links
to both my books, The VitalityMap and the Vitality Journal.
(53:37):
And I offer a 15% discount onany of my programs if if you let
me know that you found me thatway.
And you can sign up for mynewsletter or um I do 20-minute
complimentary discovery sessionstoo if you're curious about ways
that we might work together.
Um and yeah, my books are onAmazon.
You can order them through anyum bookstore as well, and uh
(54:00):
Instagram, Facebook.
You can find me.
unknown (54:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:03):
Yay! And I will put some of those links down below.
So once you're done driving ordoing whatever you're doing
while you're listening to thispodcast, uh you can safely click
on the links below.
Um, last question going back tothis idea of alignment, and I
know that we talked a little bitabout this, but one of my fun
ending questions is what doesliving in alignment feel like in
(54:27):
your body specifically?
SPEAKER_00 (54:30):
I love that.
I feel my yes so much in myheart space.
And it's just sort of thisfeeling of like, yeah, my heart
cracking open.
And it's like when that happens,it's sort of like my posture
gets taller and and and yeah, Ijust feel sort of this energy,
(54:50):
like that it's like it connects,you know, the energy flow in my
body more fully when when I'mreally in the yes.
So it's just like um, yeah, Ithink that's as much as I can
describe it at the moment.
I'm just using my hands reallyopening, opening my heart.
SPEAKER_01 (55:08):
Well, and the heart chakra right is our like central
chakra chakra, like that's likethe the center.
So I love that you feel itthere.
And it really I love thatimagery of it just kind of
connects all the other chakras.
I guess we can use thatlanguaging, but everything, it
just kind of connects everythingfor you.
I love that explanation andthank you for sharing.
(55:29):
Thank you so much for coming onthis podcast.
This is such a beautifulreminder for me personally, and
just such a beautifulconversation of really taking
our accountability back inourselves and work all these
tools that we can work on tolive a vital life and have more
(55:52):
vitality in our years.
And that's really one of thegoals of life is to how many how
many how many years can you, howmuch life can you live in your
years, not how many years canyou live?
So thank you so much for thisconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (56:06):
Thank you, Hannah.
Good afternoon.
Welcome back to the podcast.
If you're listening to this inthe afternoon, I suppose uh
we're recording in theafternoon.
My name is Hannah, and I am thehost of Journey to Well, the
podcast.
And today we have a funconversation.
We're talking about vitality andwellness and all of these really
(01:33):
fun pillars with Deborah Zucker.
She's a naturopathic physician,a therapist, coach,
award-winning author.
We're gonna get to your secondbook that is coming out soon, or
has come out by the time thisairs, probably.
Um, and I'm very excited to getinto this conversation with you.
She's also a one-three sacralgenerator in human design.
(01:57):
So we'll weave our little humandesign in uh info in there as
well.
But Deborah, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast.
And my first question really iswho is Deborah?
What lights you up?
Maybe even what's recently beenlighting you up the most, and
then we will dive into theconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Thanks, Hannah, for that introduction.
It's good to be here.
Who am I?
That's a big question.
It's my favorite question.
Yeah, well, I'll just give someof the stats.
I live in Bellingham,Washington, with my husband and
five-year-old daughter, Amy.
And um, that's one thing thatreally lights me up being a
(02:43):
mama.
And yeah, I came into that laterin life.
And it's just been, yeah, suchan anchor for me of what really
matters.
And yeah, bringing balance to ummy other passions and my work as
well, and putting it intoperspective.
(03:03):
And um yeah, some of my passionsoutside of work, which we're
gonna talk a lot about, is um, Ijust love being outdoors, uh,
hiking and getting into thewilderness, water, uh,
gardening.
Um, yeah, just those are some ofwhat get woven into my days very
regularly.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
And so grounding and really helps create some extra
balance, right?
Yes.
It can be a little, I'm surelaunching a book, I've never
launched a book, but I canimagine that it's quite
stressful.
So to have those tools to comeback to, I'm sure is is a great
(03:45):
practice, wellness practice.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yes, it's it's yeah, having now gone through this
twice.
I I just last week my secondbook came out, and uh the the
vitality journal is the name ofmy companion book.
And um, and yeah, I'm justfinding I'm doing this launch so
differently than last time.
And it it has been just thishumbling reminder of, okay, like
(04:10):
live the principles that I'mbringing forth in this resource
for the world, right?
And and just find a way of doingthis that's in congruence with
my own well-being.
And and to watch when sort ofthe expectations or pressures
that I place on myself, youknow, sort of take me out of
that foundation of honoring thefeedback that's there for me
(04:33):
around what I really need andhow I need to be doing this at
this stage in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
It's so interesting.
I know as a coach and as a guideas well, there's so many aspects
that when I'm having aconversation with someone, that
they remind me that I teachthese clients of mine that I
maybe fell away from or that I'mnot putting as much mindfulness
(05:01):
into and really living becausethere's I know you know, there's
a completely different, there'sa complete difference between
knowing the information thatwe're gonna talk about today,
and then actually what I wouldsay embodying, embodying this
information or living thisinformation or these tools or
these pillars.
(05:22):
And it's really fun actually tohave these moments of reminders
and then reminding yourself togive yourself grace.
You tell your clients that allthe time, or you tell your
readers that all the time, butto actually give yourself that
grace and that compassion iscompletely, I don't think we
(05:44):
ever get there.
Like we, you know, that's why Icall this podcast Journey to
Well.
We don't ever arrive where, youknow, now I'm now I'm a coach,
I'm an author, I'm I've writtenmy second book, I'm a therapist,
I have all of these accolades,now I'm perfect.
We don't ever arrive there.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
And it's a good reminder.
No, and just to really, yeah,just completely dispel that myth
or that idealized reality thateven if we're not conscious of
can sometimes just be there forus.
And instead, yeah, reallyrecognize the journey.
And and that's you know, that'sreally what underlies the um
nine keys that we'll be touchinginto today is is that you know,
(06:26):
we may feel like we're on top ofthe world and we've figured it
all out and we've got our acttogether, and then something
happens in our lives and the ruggets pulled out from underneath
us, and we find ourselves on ourknees again.
And so that's just the nature oflife, and you know, that we keep
evolving and changing, it'sunpredictable, everything keeps
changing, and we're living in acomplex world, you know, with
(06:49):
other human beings and and anunfolding reality that we can't
control.
And and so for us to insteadfocus on that deeper foundation
of our relationship with ourselfand how we care for ourselves
and cultivating that resiliencethat allows us to find our feet
again, to steer ourselves backwhen when we find that life has
(07:12):
sort of pulled us away from whatis really aligned with our own
vitality.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
You gave me a description of the book, and and
it says tools that cultivateresilience and advocate
meaningful change.
And resilience is such a potentword, uh, and cultivate is such
a potent word.
I'm curious if you could pleaseshare the background in that
(07:39):
description of the book andreally what that means to you in
this stage of your life.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah, well, the book was born from my own healing
journey that began in my early20s when I spiraled down into
chronic fatigue and depressionand lots of other symptoms, and
sort of found myself alldisoriented of what is going on.
I, you know, I'm newly in myyoung adulthood, sort of finding
my way in the world, and theninstead find myself in bed.
(08:09):
And and so that journey reallyum awoke in me a calling.
You know, I found thateverything I began to learn for
myself, excuse me, I was wantingto share with others, but it
also sort of brought forwardthis question for me of what's
missing from the conversationand what are we not being taught
(08:32):
when we're younger around how tocare for ourselves that could
bring me or any of us into thesekind of bewildering journeys
with our own well-being.
And and you know, that led me toto all the different trainings
of naturopathic medicine andcounseling and coaching and all
sorts of things I've gatheredover the years as tools and and
(08:53):
capacities from that kind ofexpertise.
But my own healing journey hasbeen right there along with it,
with that, with those questionsreally alive and discovering
what have been the reallyimpactful things that made a
difference in my own vitalityand well-being that I've not
really seen emphasized as youknow, the foundations of what we
(09:15):
really need to be addressing.
And so those got distilled intothose nine keys.
And um, those words that youthrew out, you know, cultivate
and resilience, those are thoseare part of some of the keys and
and really, yeah, kind of partof the orientation of how do we
come into a really intentional,conscious, and even reverent,
(09:38):
you know, relationship with howwe guide and honor our our own
lives.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
Wow.
That's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And um, let's start kind ofwalking through some of the
keys.
So there are nine, and I'm justgonna read them and then we'll
pick a few of them.
Um, honoring unique life, facingand embracing shadows,
self-awareness, cultivatingresilience, obviously my fave.
(10:10):
Um aligning with your yes,that's super fun, playful
curiosity, discovering easefuldiscipline, inviting support and
connection, and living like youmatter.
You're aligning your yes isreally bringing up human design
for me because in human designwe talk a lot about um,
(10:32):
especially for you, you're asacral generator.
And we have all of thesedifferent shapes in our human
design chart, and they're calledenergy centers.
And our sacral center is verymuch what you would think of
with the sacral chakra if you'refamiliar with the chakra system,
because the um human designactually pulls from the chakra
system.
So our sacral center is one ofour largest motor centers in
(10:56):
human design.
It's really this um when we talkabout like trusting your gut and
um following your gut as asacral authority, we call it.
That's really your how you bestmake decisions.
And a lot of my coaching andguiding in human design with my
(11:17):
sacral authorities, I'm also asacral authority, uh, is really
feeling into what a yes feelslike in your body and what a no
feels like in your body, andreally leaning into discovering
or even just exploring what ayes, what little yeses feel
(11:40):
like, like what color shirt do Iwant to wear?
Do I want to wear black?
Do I want to wear white?
And feeling what that yes feelslike, what that no feels like,
and then being able to use thatknowledge, that communication
with your body in largerdecisions that you have to make.
So that's a little human designaligning with your yes, but I'm
(12:02):
I'm curious how that shows up inyour book.
And I'm you and I talked before,um, you don't particularly have
a huge background of knowledgein in human design.
You're familiar with it.
You've you've done like thechart poll, but you've never
even like not had like a fullreading.
So I'm curious how that landswith you and how that might
align with how you wrote thatchapter of the book.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Yes.
Yes.
I love it.
I um yeah, this this key is oneof my favorites of the nine.
Um one, because it wasabsolutely pivotal in my own
healing and emergence from thechronic fatigue.
And and I found it, you know,for myself as well as others as
(12:45):
being a big missing piece of theconversation when we are, you
know, in times of depression,burnout, exhaustion, sort of
that that deeper misalignmentthat can be there, but that in
our sort of way our culture isnow oriented, primarily in
healthcare, you know, it getsdiagnosed as depression,
(13:06):
anxiety, you know, things likethat, that that really miss the
point that actually we'regetting feedback that something
is misaligned.
And so I like to think of it as,you know, are we are we
investing our life energy wherewe're getting returns?
And if we're not, then we'reinvesting our life energy where
(13:29):
it's just like going down thehole in the life bucket, right?
And and that happens for so manyof us.
And and like you were saying,like aligning with your yes is
about the little choices everyday, and it's also about the
bigger life callings and thebigger things, the significant
relationships in our lives, thework we're invested in, where
we're living, you know, just thebigger context that that you
(13:53):
know shape how we're spendingour days and where our attention
and energy is going.
And what we want is to bealigned, where you know, we're
investing our energy and itfeeds back.
So we're filling our well aswe're engaging and showing up in
the world.
And that's actually possible.
I think, you know, for somefolks who might be maybe have a
(14:13):
lot of misalignment in life,like that might feel like, is
that even possible?
Where, you know, it's not like Ihave to be exhausted when I go
to work and I don't have to, youknow, feel this sort of drag in
life, but actually you can sortof discover how to live that
way.
And it takes courage and ittakes vulnerability and it takes
(14:35):
that discernment, like you'retalking about, of really
learning to listen to what thatfeedback is and to prune away.
I like the analogy of pruning,prune away the things that that
aren't aligned, little snips orbigger cuts that will free up
the energy to then be availablefor what is aligned.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
You said something interesting earlier of these of
our body is communicating to usand even in the feeling a lack
of energy, like dragging to workinstead of maybe writing that
off as I just didn't sleep well,or uh it's no big deal, or like
(15:18):
this pain that I'm feeling likeis no big deal.
I'm curious if the book reallyexplores, or even how you've
explored this in your life ofwhere does that journey really
start?
Of beginning to notice and payattention.
And that's really the firstpart, but then we have the next
(15:40):
of like, well, now what do I dowith it?
Like, what what if I'm noticingthat uh actually work is really
not lighting me up, but that'swhat's paying my bills.
That's what I've always done.
That's you know, fill in theblank, whatever the reason is
that you wouldn't leave maybe inthis season.
What do we do with that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Yes.
So um keys number three and fourkind of get at what you're
primarily what you're justtalking about.
So key three is strengtheningyour self-awareness muscles.
And this is an acknowledgementthat most of us were not brought
up being taught how to actuallylisten to the feedback that's
(16:23):
there in our body and being24-7.
It's like a foreign language formany of us.
And and I love, you know, howyou just gave that example
earlier around like, do I wantto wear white?
Do I want to wear red?
You know, just like, you know,just like recognize, and that's
why it's like strengthening theself-awareness muscles that if
we really haven't been taught,if it is like a foreign language
(16:44):
to us, we need to start justwith that curiosity and openness
of like a beginning learner, andjust begin to hone that
discernment through the littlechoices every day and the bigger
ones and and start to listen forwhere do I feel that in my body,
or or how do I know whensomething feels right or
(17:04):
doesn't.
Um, and then also along withthat, so that gets more to like
the alignment part, but there'salso, you know, just that we're
getting feedback on what isworking for us and what's not,
like with what we're puttinginto our bodies or the things
we're doing.
And and the feedback, you know,we might be interpreting it in a
(17:24):
way that's not actually what ourfeedback's trying to say, you
know, again, because of themessages we've received in our
culture.
You know, I mean, a very commonexample is, you know, like a
headache.
Like we might, you know,interpret a headache as
something I'm getting sick orsomething like that, or or um,
or you don't even even thinkabout what's going on with it.
(17:47):
You just take a pill to get ridof the pain, right?
But actually, maybe thatheadache is letting you know
that you have a sensitivity tocoffee or another food, or you
actually need more than sixhours of sleep at night, you
know, or you know, just like youknow, but but we might not even
be attuned that way.
So this key opens up thatcuriosity of starting to track,
(18:11):
you know, when we have symptoms,we we have particular feedback,
like getting curious, what mightthat be telling me?
And and opening and watchingsort of what's happening earlier
in the day before I experiencethat, what's happening after.
And just it's like opening into,yeah, it's like we're sort of a
science experiment.
Like, how do we just begin tolearn more about this body and
(18:33):
being?
Because I live in it 24-7 and Iwant to feel, you know, more
empowered.
Because this, when we becomemore empowered in this way,
we're less able to be sort ofthrown around by the latest
health fads and by all theadvice we get from others, and
instead, like really own likeI'm my best health guide.
No one else is getting thisfeedback 24-7.
(18:56):
And so it starts there, youknow.
That's why it's key numberthree.
Like it's a really foundationalpart of how we orient towards
our our lives in a more uhagentic empowered way.
SPEAKER_01 (19:09):
Yeah, I was actually gonna ask, I assume that these
keys kind of build on each otherand we start with the foundation
and then you kind of work yourway up.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean, they're all interwoven, but but
they were they were placed, youknow, in the in that order on
purpose to kind of create someof the foundations that then
carry forward into the otherkeys later on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So then so then moving on, let'slet's just hit on four, which is
cultivating resilience, becausethat's such an interesting
resilience is such aninteresting topic to me.
Um, and I had it explained onetime.
And it's sometimes we thinkresilience is like not letting
(19:55):
things bother us, or or likehaving this kind of like really
maybe strong shell where ournervous system doesn't easily
get dysregulated.
A lot of times when I talk aboutresilience or in my world, it
resilience and nervous systemare are very paired together.
And so, in this way that it wasexplained to me, a lot of times,
(20:19):
you know, we think that beingresilient means that you're not
dysregulated ever.
Or maybe in another way toexplain it is like things just
don't bother you.
And that's not what resilienceis.
In this description, is actuallyresilience is the ability to
come back to regulation when youare dysregulated, and that is
(20:43):
such a powerful description, andI really want to like pick apart
the cultivation ahead of thatword resilience in this chapter
or in this key.
Um because cultivation to me isuh I very much think of like
gardening and planting, and likeyou're you're tilling the soil
(21:05):
and you're bringing it up.
And the reason that you'rebringing, bringing that like
bottom soil up to the surface isbecause you're creating this
better environment for yourplants or your trees to live in.
And that's really what I thinkof when I think of cultivation.
So I'm very curious how thischapter unfolds and what
(21:26):
cultivating resilience means toyou.
And also I'm always curious ofthe personal connection.
So, like what pain points inyour life really happened or
occurred for you to feel likethis is a really important key
to talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Yes, I I I mean, I love the way you spoke about
cultivation and and resilienceand sort of the
misunderstandings that can bethere around it and and
misunderstandingmisunderstandings about the
nervous system too.
And I um yeah, so you know, wetouched into this a bit before,
(22:06):
but just to reiterate some, youknow, there's there's no such
thing as a stress-free life,there's no such thing as a
predictable life, and andresilience is what allows us to
navigate in that um, yeah, inthe constant change and in in
(22:26):
that um, sorry, I just got alittle distracted.
There's some noise outside.
So I just want to name that,that I just lost my thread.
So um so so resilience.
So um the the cultivation of itis is an acknowledgement that we
(22:47):
are not um, we don't just comeinto this world like knowing all
the skills and capacities toguide ourselves in a resilient
way in life, to navigate all theunexpected things.
And so it opens us up to againthat orientation of like, okay,
I'm a beginner, like what can Ilearn here to feel more adept at
(23:09):
being able to regulate my stateof being?
And I think of that regulationas happening on all different
levels, you know, physically,mentally, emotionally,
spiritually.
How do I consciously choose toshift my state of being at any
given time?
And and I think this day andage, you know, a really big one
(23:30):
is is around the nervous system,because so many of us, with just
what's going on in the world andand just the way that our our,
particularly in this culture,you know, we've gotten busier
and busier and busier and morepressures financially and
otherwise.
And it's just like all thesethings build up to have us be
(23:52):
living, you know, I think of itlike a thermostat, with the
thermostat kind of stepped wayup here with our nervous system.
So we're kind of living in moreof a hyper-vigilant,
hyper-aroused, you know, state,so many of us.
Um, and and to learn how toshift that state.
And so this, you know, comeswith different practices, and
(24:12):
there's a myriad of them, butyou know, different breathing
practices, uh, differentgrounding or mindfulness
practices, yoga, like there'sthere's so many different things
or simply getting outside andorienting towards the natural
world.
There's so many ways that we canfind those threads to come back
and kind of shift thatthermostat level.
(24:34):
But it's not about like what youjust said, it's not about then
like trying to stay therebecause actually, vitality is
about having the flexibility andhaving the full range of
capacity of response and arousaland ability to engage with
different kinds of energies andstates of being.
So it's not about coming to somestatus quo stuck place, but it's
(24:57):
about having the tools to beable to guide ourselves back to
a different state of being whenwe choose to.
And so that resilience is againabout that empowerment.
And it's connected to the keybefore, where when we increase
our self-awareness, we canactually notice the feedback
that tells us, oh, like actuallyI might need to do this right
(25:18):
now to steer myself back into amore sort of grounded um uh
place where I feel like I havemore capacity to engage with
whatever is going on for me.
And um, and it's not just thenervous system, it's really, you
know, all different aspects ofour lives.
Like, how do we guide ourselves?
How do we feel like we have thatcapacity not to just be stuck or
(25:43):
not to, you know, when the ruggets pulled out that we can't
find our feet again, or when weget steered way over here and we
can't find our way back?
That's what resilience is about.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
What has been one of your most powerful or your
favorite tools that youpersonally use to bring yourself
back or ground yourself or umyou know, regulate yourself,
whatever wording you want touse.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Yeah.
I mean, one thing that I Ireally try to emphasize with
myself, and I think is is soimportant for most of us these
days is is to have you know thetools that we can do anytime,
anywhere, and that don't requireus to feel like we have to like
set aside an hour or block outtime or pay money to someone,
(26:32):
you know, but just so I I reallylove you know just the simple
things that I can do throughoutmy days.
And you know, big one for me,like I mentioned before, is is
uh nature and the outdoors.
So even if I can get outside, ifif it's a full day, if I can get
outside for a minute, a fewminutes, and walk around a
(26:54):
little bit, or even just likestare up at I'm looking out my
window right now, so stare up,stare up at at the trees and the
wind blowing the leaves around,you know, or the clouds.
Um, just to kind of find thoseanchor points in nature is a
really helpful thing.
But if I can't, if I can't getoutside, um, breath is another
(27:17):
one that I go to all the time,like really feeling the way my
in-breath pushes my lower ribsapart.
And for those of you who thatmight not feel as easy to
access, like putting your yourhands around your lower ribs
with your fingers forward andyour thumbs kind of looped
(27:37):
around your back gives you thatsort of um tactile anchor that
then you can breathe into andimagine pushing your hands apart
as you breathe in, um, slowingthe breath rate down, you know,
simply counting can be easy,like counting to five or six as
you breathe in, and five or sixas you breathe out.
(27:59):
It's just again a very simplething you can do anytime.
And then another, I'll just givethis last one, just another
favorite is um just finding myfeet in contact with the ground.
And if I'm inside and shoes andsocks or whatever, you know,
imagining my feet barefoot onthe earth outside, and and
(28:20):
opening to like all thesensations that I can feel
through the soles of my feet.
And any of these practices canbe a minute or less, you know,
if you don't have much time, butit can be enough to like it's
almost like pressing pause onthe fullness of life,
redirecting to the body,redirecting to nature.
(28:42):
And and that's enough to have anit's almost like an outbreath.
Like the nervous system can go,ah, right, here I am in this
moment.
And it gives some space andspaciousness to whatever it is
that I'm navigating or we'renavigating, and and allows kind
of I find it just like arecalibration of what really
(29:03):
matters right now.
Like, you know, if I'm, youknow, and and sometimes when
when when folks are starting toengage with these kinds of, you
know, little mini practices,even setting an alarm just as a
reminder, you know, to rememberto do them can be helpful at
first.
And then over time, I I found itlike over time it just starts to
become a little more automaticwhere it's like, oh, time to
(29:25):
pause.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
I love all of those examples.
Thank you.
And thank you for reminding thatit doesn't have to be this long
practice either.
Um, I would only add like thisis this can be anywhere too.
And you already said that, butlike the example of you know,
you're sitting at work at yourdesk, you can take a minute and
(29:50):
feel your feet.
Nobody even knows what you'redoing.
You can just even pretend to bereading an email and and do this
practice, or if you uh happen tobe blessed to have a window in
your office, you know, take aminute and just look outside at
the sky or the clouds or thetrees or whatever you can see.
And so it doesn't, I I agreewith you.
(30:12):
Sometimes these practices wemaybe it's the way they're
explained to us, or maybe it'sjust that we assume that they
have to be these long in-depthjourneys, and they can be, we
can certainly take an hour andgo for a wonderful walk and and
do that kind of walkingmeditation of noticing the
(30:34):
leaves and noticing the bark onthe trees, but it can also be
just just a minute, and I lovethat reminder because it it kind
of dispels that oh, I don't havetime excuse.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Yeah, thank you.
Which is real, you know, it's areal thing, particularly when
when we're just getting startedkind of integrating more of
these things in our life.
That it does feel like there'sno time often or we don't have
the resources or yeah.
And so yeah, just start with thelow low threshold, try a minute
and see what happens.
And then you could, you know,expand over time.
(31:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Love that.
So I have to ask about playfulcuriosity.
Again, two very, very fun words.
So um, what is this?
How did it come uh come about inyour journey?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
Yes.
So yeah, so this is key six,experimenting with playful
curiosity.
And yeah, this is another onethat I love that also, you know,
I find for myself, it's like,oh, the weights off my
shoulders.
And I see that with clients allthe time.
It's like this this key takesthe rule book away.
It takes that pressure of tryingto get things right or feeling
(31:49):
like you might fail, which somany of us have in our self-care
journeys.
And instead really opens up theorientation that, you know,
you're always changing, life isalways changing.
Let's orient towards ourself-care in that same way, in a
flexible, adaptable way.
And we can bring play into it,and we can bring, you know, our
(32:11):
openness and curiosity thatwe're learning as we go.
So rather than like trying to,you know, make a habit change
where it's like it's, you know,there's this rigidness and it
feels like we have to willourselves into submission and
and it feels so hard.
Instead, we design an experimentand we do it with you know that
playful, curious energy.
(32:33):
We try something new that maybewe've been wanting to do, but we
do it in a creep, we bring ourcreativity in and we design an
experiment.
And, you know, I like to say twoweeks because it's long enough
that it's like it doesn't createthat overwhelming sort of, you
know, it's too much, and so wenever get started.
(32:54):
But it's sorry, it's shortenough that doesn't create that
overwhelm, but it's long enoughthat we begin to get feedback
and it sets us in motion.
And so the idea with this isthat, you know, if you do a
two-week experiment, that at theend of two weeks you assess.
You're like, what did I learnhere?
What's working, what's notworking?
If everything's working great,you just continue.
(33:14):
And if it's not working sogreat, you tweak it or you scrap
it and you start a newexperiment.
But it just staying in motionreally helps us to like, yeah,
actually engage with life aslife is and not get stuck and
not sort of create a hurdlethat's way too high.
And we get to learn and adapt aswe go.
(33:36):
And and this one just feelshuge.
It like, you know, it takesaway, I think, what can be so
unhealthy in our journeys withhealth, you know, all the
pressures and all the shamevoices and self-judgments and
all that, and just puts us inthis like, I'm gonna try this
out and I'm gonna see whathappens and I'm gonna learn as I
go and have fun with it.
And yeah, it's it's a kind of arewiring of not only our our
(34:01):
relationship with self-care, butbut you know, with life, that we
can actually live that way too.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
It really brings me back to the third key of
self-awareness.
And instead of, again, if we'reusing the example of a diet or
or a or a or a food change, uminstead of being very rigid of
like, I can't have sugar, let'ssay, or I'm doing the
(34:28):
Mediterranean diet or keto, andbeing so rigid in that when we
can allow some playful curiosityand then bring in that
self-awareness of like how howis my body actually feeling
doing keto?
I went vegan for a while.
This is a silly example, but Iwent vegan for a while for for
(34:50):
multiple reasons, and I am avery curious person, I think by
nature.
And so part of the reason wasjust to explore how I felt
eating vegan, not eating meat,and not having um animal
products.
And um a lot of vegan products,like the pre-made ones are soy.
(35:12):
So I just I blew up.
Like I think I gained, I don'tknow how much weight I gained,
but I like did not lose weightgoing vegan.
And I didn't feel any bettereither.
And you know, that's just onesilly example.
Maybe it's not, maybe it's notthat silly, but it's one example
of when we do things thatsociety says are better, not
(35:35):
mindfully.
Um we might not actually takethat time to check in with
ourselves and be like, wait, amI feeling better?
Does this work for me?
Because it's not gonna work.
There's a reason that we have somany different diets, there's a
reason that we have so manydifferent workout plans, and
this person is saying, you know,this is the way to lose 100
(35:57):
pounds, and then this person issaying that's absolutely BS
because not everything works foreveryone.
And I love that like playfulcuriosity.
And and as someone that ispretty serious, I think I've
been called very serious in mylife.
I view myself as pretty serious,and I can definitely be very
rigid.
That's such a beautiful uhreminder to me personally.
(36:20):
So thank you for that reminderto be curious and make it
creative and be playful with itand bring a little levity to
whatever goal you have.
And I like the two-week thing,that's also very cool because
then it's not like I have to doketo for two months, and that's
(36:42):
a big time commitment.
That's a big commitment ingeneral.
Uh, just two weeks, you know,see what happens.
Notice what you notice.
I like that.
That's a really fun one.
Cool.
So let's do one more.
I really am drawn to nine,living like you matter.
What dive in, dive into thatone.
(37:03):
What does this mean?
What does this mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Yes.
This one um to me is, you know,it's nine, but it also brings it
full circle.
You know, we didn't we didn'ttalk about key one, and I'll
just mention that briefly.
So key one is honoring yourunique life, and you know,
that's just you know, rootingour relationship with um
(37:27):
self-care and with our lives inthat not taking life for granted
and and recognizing, you know,that we're in contact with our
own mortality.
We don't know how long we'regonna be here, and we're each
unique.
And um, and and so self-carethen becomes really about kind
of taking on that responsibilityfor stewarding this life with
(37:52):
from a place of reverence, froma place of of really honoring.
No one else is here to care forthis life but us.
And so key number nine, that'sjust a brief description, but
key number nine, living like youmatter, takes that into the
broader context.
So it's recognizing no no one'shere by accident.
(38:12):
Like we each matter, we're eacha part of that web of life.
And to live that way, where manyof us, I think particularly
women, and and I know I thinkyour audience is primarily women
and mine is as well, you know,to really recognize so many of
us are wired to put care forothers and care for the world
(38:34):
before care for self.
That it's just, you know, it'slike it's it's really um
amplified all over the place,you know, like the accolades of
like, oh my goodness, you're soselfless.
And and and and what happenswith that over time is that we
run ourselves into the ground.
It's not sustainable.
We need to care for ourselves,to fill our own wells, so that
(38:58):
we can continue to show up, carefor others and care for the
world, and to be the fullestpresence and light, you know,
and version of ourselves that wecan be.
And that that's living like youmatter, that each of us really
honors our own lives in thatway, that we include in the
service in the world that we'reoffering, you know, whether it's
(39:21):
as a parent, whether it's, youknow, as you know, someone who's
out there on a global scaleworking or or you know, focused
on the community around them,you know, wherever your your
energy and light is drawn, youknow, as as your unique calling
in this life, that yeah, you arethe most vital, fullest form of
(39:42):
yourself that you can be.
And that's really aboutattending to your own well-being
and all these ways that we'vebeen touching into today, and
um, and not putting yourself,you know, on the backseat that
after you do these other things,then you'll care for yourself.
But actually, this is the numberone priority, otherwise you
(40:03):
won't really be able to show upas as you're able to, as is your
birthright.
SPEAKER_01 (40:10):
Wow, that's a beautiful reminder.
Um it's your birthright.
That was beautiful.
Um, how do you interweave thisreverence, living like you
matter in your everyday life,taking care of yourself so that
you can better show up for oneof your passions of your family
and your kid?
(40:30):
What does that look like in yourin your personal day-to-day?
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Yeah, you know, it's it's finding those things.
So for for me, as I said before,one one really big anchor for me
is time in nature.
So for me, you know, anon-negotiable is regular time
out on hikes and just, you know,I live in a place where there's
trails all over the place.
So it's it's just like that,that for me is is one of one of
(40:59):
the threads for me that isnon-negotiable.
Um, and and another thing thatis really vital for me that I've
learned over the years is I Ineed to do some kind of movement
every single day and doing it,you know, as early in the
morning as I can.
Well, not you know, getting goodsleep, but just more more of
like the first thing in themorning exercise works the best
(41:22):
for me.
So it's like those are just twoexamples of some of the things
that really help to shape mycapacity to show up for my my
daughter, my family, for and formy clients and all the work that
I do.
And um, that gives me that thatvitality and grounding.
There, there are a number ofother things, you know, the
(41:44):
community and friends and youknow, other other passions that
I engage with too, but it's it'smaking sure that, you know, and
we we skipped over key eight,which is about support, but it's
it's recognizing part of it toois that, you know, yes, I'm the
one responsible for mywell-being, but I also don't
need to be in it alone, andthat's not sustainable either.
(42:08):
That I have my team of support,both professional and personal,
that I lean into so that I'm notalone in it and I'm getting the
support to um allow myself tothrive and to prioritize the
things that that I need to dofor myself.
And and I know, you know, it'sit's definitely having engaged
in these teachings, written myfirst book before I became a
(42:30):
mom, you know, it's definitely,you know, been very illuminating
for me of like the differentkinds of dance and ways of
engaging, you know, particularlywith a young child and and just
how how to keep doing thatbecause it's this, it's the same
thing.
Like it's not it's notsustainable to not be giving
myself the the time and andattention, um, even though you
(42:53):
know it's very easy to do again,because there's so many
expectations and and needs ofothers that um yeah, can shape
that.
And so finding that balancebecause it's not about not
attending to the needs of othersor caring for our loved ones.
And it's it's very much aboutthat, but it's like just
recognizing how do we keep doingthat in a sustainable way.
SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
And sustainable, I mean, that goes back all the way
to the beginning of theconversation with really the
stemming of this book was waschronic fatigue for you, and and
that's a huge that's a hugelesson that we learn in life.
I think we all hit this point atsome point because we're not
robots and eventually you'regonna burn out, and learning how
(43:44):
to create more sustainability inwherever you are at life,
whether that's parenting or yourjob or your relationship or all
of them, or even the sustainablerelationship with yourself.
And it's not it's finding thatbalance, it's not giving
yourself everything, you know,taking like again five hours
(44:07):
every day for yourself.
That's maybe not a sustainablebalance.
Um, but finding that balance foryou and what works for you, and
then the tools that work foryou, it's a really fun game that
we have the opportunity to kindof play.
SPEAKER_00 (44:23):
Yes, I yeah, I love that you just phrased it like
this.
It is, yeah.
I really do feel like it's likea game and to open in in that
way with that curiosity and andplayfulness again, to find like
what works for you.
You know, I gave some examplesfor myself, but those might not
work well for for others, youknow.
So just to find and and explorelike what are your things, like
(44:45):
and and to listen for thatfeedback and honor it.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Some things, some other ideas, just because I am
such a tactile person.
So if you're listening and andyou're like, I've already tried
hiking and that doesn't work forme or whatever, um, some other
ideas, some things that workreally well for me that I really
love is my nighttime routine ispretty sacred to me.
And I have it pretty much everynight, no matter what time I'm
(45:14):
getting home.
And for me right now, it'slooking like red light.
I always do uh like literal redlight bulbs, so not red light
therapy, but just having the redlight on.
Um, there's so much sciencebehind that that I'm not gonna
take time to list.
But um red light, I'm doing likea Shakti mat, like the
acupressure mat for my back, andthat's really helping me sleep
(45:37):
very well.
I do red light therapy as well.
Um, reading is really nice.
Really anything that gets me offmy phone, and I really try to
stick to uh, and you know, likeeven that word, I don't even try
anymore.
Like I just get off my phone.
It's not, I think at some pointin that self-awareness journey,
(45:59):
at some point we go from I tryto do this to this is a
non-negotiable.
And you said that about gettingoutside for you.
That's your non-negotiablebecause you have found that it
makes such a difference.
And if you're in that state of,I'm still trying, you're
figuring it out.
And you have to find what isyour non-negotiable.
(46:20):
And I think you have to do thosethings for a little bit to
figure out that it's yournon-negotiable.
But that's definitely one ofmine is my nighttime routine and
doing the red light and andreading and taking time really
just to sit with myself.
I've been really enjoyingmeditating at night again
lately, because I'm normally amorning meditator.
Um, so those are those are someother ideas of just fun, of fun
(46:43):
things to play around with andreally notice.
Again, going back to all ofthese keys, like noticing how
that's showing up, how you'reshowing up the next day when you
take that 30 minutes before yougo to sleep for yourself, versus
when you come to the end of theday and and you like tuck in
your kid and run to bed, put onyour PJs and just pass out,
(47:04):
notice how you feel the next daywith those two different evening
routines.
Um so anyway, just a few moreideas that that have worked
really well for me and and andspoke to me.
Um as we wrap up, I want to justopen it up.
I know that we didn't go throughall of them.
Is there any key that you feellike we missed or any piece of a
(47:28):
key that you really would loveto share before we we end with
our final question?
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
Yeah, let's go a little bit um more into key
number eight.
So that's inviting support andconnection.
And yeah, I just I just want toemphasize this at the end of our
conversation because of howincredibly vital it is that we
cultivate that team of support,that we find the people who feel
(47:58):
really resonant, who can holdus, you know, with compassion
and where it feels safe, wherewe feel seen to unfold, you
know, in our own healing andevolution.
And and I think so often, youknow, our health journeys, we
can have practitioners who,yeah, we've sort of, you know,
either put up on high on apedestal or, you know, we don't
(48:22):
really feel like they hear us,or or there's not that, yeah,
that sense of safety.
And I just want to emphasizelike to really own like your own
um, yeah, your own truth in thatand and that you can find the
people who do resonate.
It can take some advocacy andsort of some energy initially,
but what a difference it makes,you know, to find the right
(48:44):
people for your team of support,both professionally and
personally.
And um, and to yeah, come out ofthat isolation and not feel like
you need to be in it alone.
It makes such a huge differencebecause we're relational
creatures and we need eachother.
We're not meant to be in italone.
And along those lines, too, I'ma I'm a huge advocate, and this
(49:06):
is part of my business modelbecause it's made such a big
difference for me of comingtogether in community.
So having having circles of, youknow, I primarily work with
women, so having circles ofwomen that are on a healing
journey together.
And whether it's virtual or inperson, like again, I just I
(49:26):
I've seen how much it amplifiesour capacity to actualize the
changes we seek and to healdeeply and to really address
those core, you know, like wewere talking about before, those
core misalignments, or tonavigate through big life
transitions gracefully and withmore ease and sense of clarity
(49:48):
around what is aligned for menow.
Um, so I just wanted to put thatout there too, that again, I
think modern day culture hasgotten away from some of these
things that are more primal andessential for us as humans and
and in our healing journeys andum or even just life journeys.
You know, I kind of think of ourlife journeys are healing
(50:09):
journeys, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um yeah, so I just wanted tojust name that because it's such
a such a passion of mine.
And it and it's yeah, I justfeel um like it's also part of
what can be missing, you know,from the conversation as well as
from people's um, yeah, justjourneys of wellness.
(50:31):
So yeah, yeah, just yeah,journeys of wellness.
SPEAKER_01 (50:36):
Well, yeah.
I was actually just having thisconversation last night that
there's really only so far youcan go on your healing journey
alone because we are wounded andlike our trauma, if you want to
go in kind of that shadow side,we're wounded in relationships,
we're hurt in relationships ofall kinds, not just your
(50:58):
intimate ones of like apartnership.
Um, we're we're wounded inrelationships, but we're also
healed in relationships.
And we're not created to do thislife alone.
And I and I truly believe thatwe're not created to heal alone.
We can't, we actually cannotheal alone.
(51:18):
Uh, there's only a certain levelthat we can get to when we're
alone, and that's a whole lessonof learning how to reach out and
and vulnerability and learning,uh experiencing trusting someone
on that level when it'ssomething, you know, when you
have maybe been hurt, but you Iwould argue that you cannot
(51:43):
possibly heal without otherpeople, and and that's a a
really brave step that you take.
And you will find those people.
You will.
Maybe you find the wrong people,and they teach you that they're
not the people.
That's not the wrong person.
That's the wrong practitionerfor me, that's the wrong guide
(52:05):
for me, and that's okay.
And then that will just be onemore no that's gonna lead you to
your next person that reallysees you.
And I tell one of my bestfriends this all the time.
We always send each other littlethe little memes back and forth,
but it's true that um there'sbeen so much healing in that
relationship specifically thatlike she doesn't even know that
(52:27):
she's you know, she's helping meheal and that I know that I'm
helping her heal.
And and that, oh God, if I couldgive that to everyone, like
that's that's the dream.
That's really truly the dream isto find your tribe of people
that you can heal with and thatare willing.
And oh my gosh, so many things.
But thank you for bringing thatup, especially what a beautiful
(52:50):
way to close and what abeautiful reminder.
Um yeah, thank you.
I appreciate you.
So we have so many fun ways toconnect with you.
Obviously, we can get your book,uh, either of the books or both,
but where do you primarily hangout?
If someone listening wouldreally like to connect with you
or even just learn more fromyou, where can they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (53:15):
Uh my website is vitamedicine.com.
And uh I actually have a specialpage for podcast listeners
that's vitalmedicine.com slashpodcast, where um I have a free
guide to the nine keys thatwe've talked about, um, uh links
to both my books, The VitalityMap and the Vitality Journal.
(53:37):
And I offer a 15% discount onany of my programs if if you let
me know that you found me thatway.
And you can sign up for mynewsletter or um I do 20-minute
complimentary discovery sessionstoo if you're curious about ways
that we might work together.
Um and yeah, my books are onAmazon.
You can order them through anyum bookstore as well, and uh
(54:00):
Instagram, Facebook.
You can find me.
unknown (54:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:03):
Yay! And I will put some of those links down below.
So once you're done driving ordoing whatever you're doing
while you're listening to thispodcast, uh you can safely click
on the links below.
Um, last question going back tothis idea of alignment, and I
know that we talked a little bitabout this, but one of my fun
ending questions is what doesliving in alignment feel like in
(54:27):
your body specifically?
SPEAKER_00 (54:30):
I love that.
I feel my yes so much in myheart space.
And it's just sort of thisfeeling of like, yeah, my heart
cracking open.
And it's like when that happens,it's sort of like my posture
gets taller and and and yeah, Ijust feel sort of this energy,
(54:50):
like that it's like it connects,you know, the energy flow in my
body more fully when when I'mreally in the yes.
So it's just like um, yeah, Ithink that's as much as I can
describe it at the moment.
I'm just using my hands reallyopening, opening my heart.
SPEAKER_01 (55:08):
Well, and the heart chakra right is our like central
chakra chakra, like that's likethe the center.
So I love that you feel itthere.
And it really I love thatimagery of it just kind of
connects all the other chakras.
I guess we can use thatlanguaging, but everything, it
just kind of connects everythingfor you.
I love that explanation andthank you for sharing.
(55:29):
Thank you so much for coming onthis podcast.
This is such a beautifulreminder for me personally, and
just such a beautifulconversation of really taking
our accountability back inourselves and work all these
tools that we can work on tolive a vital life and have more
(55:52):
vitality in our years.
And that's really one of thegoals of life is to how many how
many how many years can you, howmuch life can you live in your
years, not how many years canyou live?
So thank you so much for thisconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (56:06):
Thank you, Hannah.
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