July 23, 2025 • 44 mins
Dr. Ebru, an immunologist and molecular medicine expert & 4/6 emotional generator, takes us on a fascinating journey through the science of skincare, challenging beauty industry myths while sharing evidence-based approaches to healthy skin.
Fed up with ineffective, overpriced products that damaged her own skin during her PhD studies, Dr. Ebru combined her immunology expertise with cosmetic science to create Aveseena skincare. Her research on estrogen's impact on the immune system provides unique insights into how hormones affect skin throughout our lives - from teenage acne to pregnancy changes to menopausal challenges.
One of the most enlightening aspects of our conversation involves distinguishing between different types of inflammation. While the beauty industry broadly demonizes all inflammation, Dr. Ebru explains that acute inflammation is actually essential for our survival, while chronic inflammation and the subtle "inflammaging" are what truly damage skin over time. This nuanced understanding transforms how we approach skincare problems.
Ready to transform your skincare approach with science-backed solutions? Explore products that work with your body's natural processes rather than against them, and discover why sometimes the simplest routines deliver the most remarkable results.
Connect with Dr. Ebru & Aveseena at Aveseena.com or on IG @aveseena
15% off your order with code : wellwithhannah
Order your discovery skincare kit here : https://www.aveseena.com/shop/face-masks/jetsetter-kit/
Let's connect on social media! You can find me @ _journeytowell
Be sure to reach out and say hello 🤍
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well.
So today is one of my likenerdy selves dream to talk more
about skincare and the sciencebehind skincare and hormones and
how our skin changes over time.
So today I'm joined by Dr Ibru.
(00:23):
She's an immunologist.
She founded a skincare companycalled Avacina.
She's also a 4-6 emotionalgenerator, which we were just
talking a little bit about humandesign before we hit record.
So I like to pepper in a littlehuman design in our conversation
so it makes it more easilydigestible, which is kind of
funny that you, when you reachedout to me, one of the things
(00:45):
that you said was you like totalk about skincare and the
importance of like ingredients,dosage and administration and
make it easily digestible forpeople to understand, and that's
all we're going to talk about.
So before we get all into that,first of all, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast.
I'm very excited to chat withyou again and I would love for
(01:07):
you to give a little intro ofyourself.
Who is Dr Ibru?
What brought you to Avacina andwhat brought you to where you
are today?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Sure, Thank you, hannah, first of all, for having
me and hi everybody.
So, as she said, my name is DrIbru and I'm an immunologist and
a molecular medicine expert,and for years I worked on the
impact of estrogen on the immunesystem and how estrogen
modulates the inflammation, whywomen have a stronger immune
(01:39):
system and also, on the otherside of the sword, why would
they get more autoimmunediseases.
So that was, you know, theheart of my research and how
Ovecina came out of thatresearch.
Because, due to personalreasons and also the beauty
industry pissed me off.
And here's how.
(02:00):
So when I was doing my PhD, myskin used to break constantly
due to stress, you name it.
And, of course, when you'redoing PhD, you're working 14
hours, 16 hours a day.
You are either not eatinganything or binging on fast food
when you find it.
To be honest, that doesn't helpyour body or your face from
(02:21):
inside out, and when you add thestress on top of it, oh God,
it's a bad cocktail.
You know it's really bad.
So I started breaking out.
And when you're a student,every cent counts.
And, however, I found a way.
I got in and went and boughtthis mint colored skincare brand
(02:43):
.
You all know it Since the 80s,saying we're good for acne prone
skin.
And then I got it.
I started using it and a weeklater my skin turned gray.
I'm like I'm not kidding you,it looks great.
And my husband was like yourface looks great.
And this morning I'm like whatare you talking about?
(03:04):
And I looked at the mirror.
I'm not kidding you, it's likeskin color, but it looks gray,
like dream dullness.
I don't know how to explain.
So I freaked out.
Of course, I had to go to thelab and my professor is looking.
I was like you know, you lookweird.
I was like iush, no, we're notdiscussing that.
(03:26):
And that's the day when I gotreally, really mad.
Because we have all thisscience available, we have
dermatologists, we haveimmunologists, we have everybody
.
And these big companies havetons of money to employ all this
science into these overpricedproducts to offer us better
stuff, which they choose not tobecause it's more profit.
(03:49):
Everybody loves a profit whodoesn't?
But it's not ethical.
So I think that's the day whenI got mad and said enough is
enough, I'm going to figure thisout.
So I started learning cosmeticformulations, cosmetic chemistry
, got into that, and then Idecided to combine all the
(04:09):
knowledge and background I havein immunology, dermatology,
molecular medicine, withcosmetic science, and that's how
Avicenna was born.
And the first testers are my momand dad, and my dad was a
transplant surgeon and a generalsurgeon and my mom was a
(04:29):
oncologist pathologist.
Both of them are very hardcore.
Every time I discuss them, uh,discuss my research with them,
they would be much more tougherthan my professor on me saying
that, oh, you didn't do this,you didn't look at this paper.
I'm like you're not supposed toknow everything.
They knew everything, believeme.
(04:50):
I'm like okay, we'll do this.
So when they started testing itand my mom and dad put me on the
spot it's like I'm defending anew thesis, right?
Like, did you do this?
Did you do that?
Did you do the microbialtesting?
Did you do this?
Did you do that?
Did you do the microbialtesting?
Did you do this?
Did you do that?
And I was like yes, yes, yes,yes, and this is the principle
and this is why we're doing itand this is all the signs of
(05:11):
inflammation we're focusing onand blah, blah, blah.
And my dad was like kid, you'reonto something.
You gotta share this with theworld.
You're doing something goodhere.
This is working, and that's howAvicenna born.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I love that.
I love your dad, by the way.
I was like, oh my gosh soundsso hardcore, maybe not growing
up, maybe I wouldn't want thatdad growing up, but I love that
journey and I love that they'reable to challenge you and really
push you to create thisbeautiful company.
So let's define you've said ita couple of times.
Let's define inflammation.
(05:47):
What is that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So, before we go into explaining what inflammation is
.
I want to clarify somethingthat the beauty industry and the
food industry have been pushingon us for the last year.
That is inflammation, andthey've been pushing this,
saying inflammation is bad, youneed to do anti-inflammation,
and blah, blah, blah.
(06:10):
Okay, let's clarify one thingthey don't have one immunologist
on board who knows immunology.
Okay, okay, you needinflammation.
It's the type of inflammationthat makes the difference.
So if we don't haveinflammation, you don't have
anything to defend you againstmicrobes.
(06:31):
You'll be dead.
All of us would be dead, prettymuch.
So the acute inflammation let'sgo into the types of
inflammation Acute inflammationor systemic inflammation is the
one that says okay, there is abug here and this bug is not
good.
It could be a bacteria, itcould be a virus and I need to
(06:52):
defend you.
It's your own SWAT team, it'syour own army silence.
And then it starts the threeminute of the day.
So, after it defeats themicrobes and inflammation goes
up during the defense, and then,after it defeats it, it starts
(07:13):
going down, starting the healingprocess, because those tissues,
those cells are damaged andneeds to be cleaned up, tidied
up and healed.
However, what is bad is thechronic inflammation.
When inflammation is always up,it could be due to lifestyle
(07:33):
changes, it could be due tostress, it could be some
internal problem going on with acertain kind of disease, like
autoimmune diseases,neurodegenerative diseases, that
kind of stuff.
So inflammation goes up highand it cannot come down.
So when it's really high, thatis the chronic inflammation.
It's always there and it startsattacking you.
(07:55):
So that is the inflammationtype we do not want to be on all
the time.
Inflammaging is right inbetween between acute
inflammation and chronicinflammation.
So inflammation is the silent,quiet, micro level of
inflammation.
So it's not as high as chronic,where you're seeing the signs
(08:18):
like breaking out or you'regetting sick, that you can
actually see what inflammationdoes.
Inflammation is down, silent.
It's doing the trick behind theclosed doors but still doing
the damage.
So why does it happen?
Lifestyle, bad night's sleep,bad food, extreme stress
(08:41):
everybody's going throughextreme stress these days.
That increases cortisol andwhat it does is especially
stress.
It tells your brain fight orrun.
But it's not that.
Your body is not going to knowif you're fighting or running.
So what it's going to do it'sgoing to try to conserve energy
(09:02):
and resources and it's going tostart dimming down everything,
dimming down the energy.
That includes the energy thatgoes to your immune system.
Okay, so that's why you getsick easier when you're stressed
.
That's another reason.
So, but what it also does, itinduces inflammation, that
silent inflammation.
And what does it do?
(09:23):
In the long run, you startaging prematurely.
That's the one that's reflectedon the skin, it mirrors on the
skin.
You start looking tired, morethan ever more dull, more than
ever less hydrated, you know.
And in the body, your jointsache, you can't sleep correctly,
you everything adds up.
(09:45):
So that is influencing, andwe're the first one, I'm the
first one to talk about it inthe beauty industry, and now
everybody's picking up on it,which is great.
I love it.
But the most important thingand this is why I wanted to talk
to your audience was it's aboutthe correct science, the
correct information, not it'sabout the correct science, the
(10:05):
correct information, not scaryscience.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I don't believe in scary science.
Well, it's a good point andsomething that maybe other
people can align with on thispodcast and in my community is
we talk often I've talked withfunctional health coaches or
nutritionists and we talk aboutit in terms of food and it's not
so much I mean, obviously it iswhat you're eating but we talk
(10:29):
a lot about what you're eatingand not when you're eating it or
how you're eating it or in whatcapacity you're eating it, and
all of that makes such a hugedifference In human design.
I talk about it a lot because wehave a digestion type and
that's how not only how we takein food most easily, but also
how we take in information andhow we kind of digest the world
(10:52):
like, process our information,and we all have these different
ways that we most easilyassimilate food and nutrients.
And so why wouldn't that alsobe applied to skincare, which is
?
It's not just and that wassomething that we talked about
previously it's not just theingredients, it's the potency
(11:15):
and the dosage of theingredients.
So can you speak a little biton that, because I think that's
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So what you said actually resonates completely
with the skin care.
So everybody thinks that skincare and that's what industry
made us believe that it'ssomething to be fixed it's not
something to be fixed.
It tells you what's going oninside.
It's your body's way of talkingto you, right?
So when you're talking aboutinformation, this could be
(11:46):
knowledge.
This could be food.
Food is also information.
It is processed in the body andthen your skin says I don't
like this, you're not gettingenough water or you're getting
too much stressful information.
So when you say how humandesign shows how you process
(12:07):
that information on so manylevels, it's perfect.
It perfectly aligns with whatyour skin is trying to tell you
in the morning, say um, I looklike crap.
Why do I look like crap?
That's why that's why it'stelling you it's like you need
to change something there.
There's a process problem.
So when we go into theingredient type and the dose,
(12:29):
that is very important.
So anything like, for example,you're choosing the information
that comes into your mind and inyour space right like, for
example, you don't want tolisten any news today, any
negative news today, so youdon't turn on the tv and you
don't get that negative energy.
That is a choice.
(12:50):
Ingredients and skincare isalso your choice.
So a good formulator can chooseingredients that work together
and place as much as ingredientsinto a product as possible to
make it multitasking.
And there is a certain dose forevery ingredient and this is
(13:10):
how it's determined, either withscientific research, where you
can find it on PubMed, orsuppliers do their research in
their own lab and give you thisinformation sheet saying that,
for example, for peptides, youcan use it from 1% to 3% and
this is the effective range.
If you use it less than 1%, itdoesn't make anything, but if
(13:31):
you use it more than 3%, it'suseless.
You don't need to.
It's like overloading, youdon't need it.
So this is the sweet point.
So a good formulator knowsthose and selects those.
However, there are somecompanies out there that sells,
for example, pure powderedniacinamide.
(13:51):
This is one of the ingredients,vitamin B3.
Why would you sell purepowdered niacinamide?
What are you going to do withit?
It is crazy.
Even in the lab, when we'rehandling these ingredients, we
wear gloves because that's apure ingredient.
So what's?
(14:12):
It could cause allergies.
The pure ingredient.
It's so powerful, it's 100powerful, right.
Why would you sell that?
Because in pubmed, for example,for neosinamide, and pubmed is
where all the researchers, allthe scientists, upload their
papers, or you can pull find allthe scientific research there.
(14:34):
So when you look there, thevalue, the percentage that
neosinamide was studied, wasfive percent and even at five
percent, they saw 90 to 95%positive results.
Why would you go above 5%?
It's marketing.
So marketing is is a good wayof selling everything.
(14:57):
However, it can hurt the people, so that's where the science
gets in.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, which is so frustrating, I think, as a
consumer, as a generallyuneducated consumer, I clearly
do not know as much as you.
That's so.
So how do we find, how do wenavigate?
I guess this, okay, this mightbe a good skincare, this might
(15:26):
be good skincare for me, I meanyeah, and then how do we figure
out, like what's good for meversus what's good for you,
what's a good skincare company?
I mean obviously yours, but butjust to navigate, like, what
are good skincare products andnot good skincare products?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, one of the things is you don't need 10
products on your face.
You don't, and your walletdoesn't need that, right,
because nobody's nobody's richenough to buy poorly made or
cheap products.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So there is a lot of.
There is a marketing angle outthere in the beauty world where
they say their product is verycheap, but you know they are not
putting the money into thepackaging and everything and
they sell it very cheaply to themasses.
(16:22):
So it makes me think where didyou cut the corners to make it
so cheap?
Because I know all theingredient prices.
They're not.
They're not cheap, especiallynow.
They're very expensive.
Especially peptides are hard tomake.
They're made in the lab.
They go through all these veryrigorous testing.
None of the stuff that reallyworks is cheap in the beauty
(16:45):
world.
I'm sorry.
Uh, so that's the reality ofthings.
So when you see a very cheaplypositioned product, it makes me
question where did you cut thecorners from?
Did you cut it from the sizedid?
Did you buy the products inbulk?
If you bought it in bulk, areyou using it before the shelf
life is over, or is it likeeffective or is it high quality?
(17:07):
I wouldn't touch those becauseI tried those, by the way,
because I was curious.
I broke out.
It took me a month to fix myface and I was like breaking out
everywhere.
It was bad.
So that's the cheap productsside and I was like breaking out
everywhere.
It was bad.
So that's the cheap productsside, and then there is a very,
very expensive luxury heritageproduct side, and one of them is
(17:28):
Chanel, like one of them.
And when you look at there andbecause I'm in the business, I'm
looking at things and I'm likethis doesn't cost that much.
This is not $3,000 cream.
I mean, for example, there'sone cream's, one cream, lamer.
Everybody's in love with it.
I'm looking at it looks thesame nearly with ingredients.
(17:49):
I'm like, uh, I'll go get nivea.
Then you know, these are mypersonal experiences and I can
only imagine how confusing it'sgoing to be for a daily consumer
.
So that is why we're talkingabout science and all this today
with you.
So what can you do?
What can you do?
How can you protect yourself Ifyou can go with the testers?
(18:12):
You have a question ask for atester, because a good company
would have a tester set.
We have one, by the way.
You can get on our website.
You can get the discovery kitand it will be 15% off for any
of the products you're going topurchase later.
Because here's the thing we loveour cream, but you may not love
(18:34):
it.
That's personal preference.
We know it works, but again,it's personal preference.
Yeah, so it's like colors youmay like blue, I may like pink.
That's easy.
So that's why we would like togive that freedom, but most of
the big companies don't have atester kit they sell.
They say buy my three thousanddollars cream and if it doesn't
(18:55):
work, return it in 30 days.
Do you know how hard it is toreturn anything to the companies
?
Oh my god.
Discuss that.
That's another story.
So that's one thing.
Go for the testers.
Test that if you like it, thenpurchase the big product that's
more cost effective.
Don't go for the very cheapproducts, because when you're
(19:17):
going for cheap, at the end ofthe road the result to fix is
going to be more expensiveyou're going to pay more money
in the long run.
Third of all, don't buy fivelike 10 different creams to
solve 10 different problems.
Find a cream or a serum or askincare product that focuses
(19:39):
more than one problem.
You need a multitasking product.
It could be enough to have onecream that does the trick during
the day and night.
That way, even though if thatone would be more expensive
because it has more ingredients,more peptides, more hyaluronic
acid in it, in the long runyou're saving money because
(20:00):
you're using less.
You are, uh, touching your faceless, which is better, because
your skin doesn't like to betouched a lot.
Remember covid days when we hadthe mask and it was causing
acne?
Everybody touched yeah that.
So three things don't go for thecheap stuff, because it will
cost you more.
Look for companies that aretransparent, has all the
(20:22):
ingredients listing and all thesigns on their website.
If you're not satisfied, emailthem.
Someone should answer you withthe answers you need.
Three get the tester kit.
Try it yourself so you willhave a peace of mind.
Look for all the tests, alleverything you're putting the
(20:44):
money in, and this is aninvestment in yourself.
Don't shy away from investingin yourself, and please don't
believe in the marketing tricks.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Six, six things, three things, six things, just
kidding.
No thank you.
That's really helpful and Iwill say I have tried your
products, thank you.
And something that I wouldmaybe add that I noticed as a
difference is you don't reallyneed a lot of, especially the.
(21:16):
I mean really everything theface wash Like I just did a
couple dabs and the face washkind of foams really nicely,
which is what was really coolfor me.
Um, but even the serums and thelotion, the, the um, I have it
right here, what's it called?
Um, yeah, the perfection cream,like it slides on very easily.
(21:36):
So I feel like some, you know, Ialso have gone the cheap route
in my younger years and you justfeel like you have to slather
so much on and you go to bedjust with these layers and
layers, because I have very,very dry, sensitive skin and
I've always had that and it hasimproved in probably in the
(21:57):
commitment that I've taken in myskin.
So it's not quite as bad as itwas when I was younger, but I
used to.
I feel like just have to likelather everything up and then go
to bed and I would still wakeup with really dry skin.
So it's just.
That was something that I noted, that I wanted to make note of
with you and just for everyonelistening if they're interested,
is it goes on, so I feel likeyou really don't need.
(22:21):
It's just these little dabs andthen it just really slides over
your skin very easily and youstill feel hydrated, which is
very important to me.
Not everyone has dry skin, butit's really uncomfortable, you
know, to like feel like you havedry skin and you need to put
more lotion on all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Uh-oh, true.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
True, I mean dryness is one of the things.
Yeah, I don't know if theinternet is going out, but I
think it's okay.
I think it just blocked us fora minute.
We're talking about mercuryretrograde, so we're just trying
to trying to make it work outhere.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Mercury retrograde we're not in, but right now it
feels like it whatever you callit the shadow or what I've been
shadowed it's the full moon.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
We had a full moon yesterday, so I think it's the
full moon just still doing itsthing.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I don't know what's going on I don't know, if it
goes like this at the night, I'mgonna get on the top of the
roof and start howling.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So another thing that you said that I would love to
touch on is talking in a lot ofI know a lot of your research is
on hormone changes and how thataffects our skin as we're aging
, and that, I agree, I think, issomething that we don't really
talk about often, especiallylike pregnancy or menopause.
(23:48):
I mean, I think we talk alittle bit more about the
teenage hormone and like theacne and all of that.
I've always kind of heard aboutthat, but not the latter years
of our lives, and I know that alot of your research has been on
specifically estrogen, but justhormones and skin fluctuation.
So can we touch on that as well?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So it's hard to be a female.
Okay, as a female, I'm going tosay that we don't have a
breather.
When you're a teenager, you'regoing through all these hormonal
changes.
It affects your how you think,your personality, your
confidence levels and, on top ofit, if you get cystic acne, oh
(24:31):
boy, that is not fun.
So you go through that.
And then when you're in yourreproductive years, during the
month, we go through thesehormonal and I don't want to say
mental mental is not a verygood word but soul changes.
Let's say soul changes, sure,like how you feel, what you go
(24:54):
through, what you, what yourperception is, and that also
reflects on your skin and one ofthe things that we've been told
that you have to, especiallyduring, like teenager years and
especially reproductive years.
If you're an oily skin, right,you're supposed to use non-oily
(25:16):
products, products that doesn'thave any oil in it.
You have to cleanse, like crazy, crazy, which breaks you out
more.
So that was the informationthat the beauty, uh industry
pushed on us.
But the dermatologist was likeno, no, no, no, no, no.
You don't wash that much, youdon't strip your skin, you're
gonna make it worse.
But with the social media, thedermatologists are explaining
(25:38):
this to the masses saying, no,that is wrong.
So that's the thing.
And as you go through pregnancy,your skin is again changing.
Your body is changing.
For God's sakes.
I mean becoming huge and lotsof swelling.
It wasn't fun.
Everybody's like, oh you mustbe in bliss.
(26:00):
You know you're pregnant.
I'm not, I'm just bloated.
I want sushi and I can't eat it.
I am miserable right now.
It's not easy.
I mean, it's a blessing we havea very healthy daughter.
I'm grateful for that.
But boy it's hard on the womenhard and your husband asks like
(26:21):
why?
Why are you always complaining?
Your feet are so like.
Would you like to have a look?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
yeah, they're humongous, I can't wear my shoes
.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But that, all that shows up on your skin again, all
those changes, because estrogenis just rocket high when you
are pregnant and then you givebirth, everything comes crashing
down.
Yeah, you know, some women gointo postnatal depression
because it's too hard on them.
So they're like like me, I'mlike, I don't feel anything, but
(26:54):
I'm not okay either you know sobut again, your fin, your skin
feels after pregnancy, feelslike paper.
Mine felt like dry paper and Iwas like trying to figure it out
, you know.
But then after some time itnormalized, then you get it
start getting into perimenopause.
(27:14):
Perimenopause sometimes womenbreak out badly.
Badly, I mean, I had that too.
Am I a teenager?
Speaker 1 (27:22):
again what's going on ?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm like I don't want this.
That was the estrogen trying tolike going up, going down,
going up, going down.
So your body, your skin, istrying to say whoops, estrogen
is up, okay, let's break outagain.
Oh no, we're back normal andthen you go into menopause.
That is not fun.
(27:45):
So what, what can you do?
What can you do?
I mean, men are pretty muchstable, like, yeah, they're
pretty much stable, uh, butwomen is like up, down, down, up
, up, up down, just a little bitflat up again.
So all you can do is for yourskin is this uh, keep it clean,
(28:06):
but not stripped clean.
Keep it moisturized, but notoverloaded.
Don't suffocate it and go forthe peptides, go for the good
antioxidants, go for the uh,clean ingredients that you would
like, and your skin is gonnatell you when you apply it.
It's gonna look like oh, I'm sohappy, I'm moisturized, I feel
(28:28):
good, you know.
Or it's gonna look like this isnot enough.
You need more moisture, changeyour cream, you know.
So, listen to your skin.
Look, it's not your enemy, it'syour best friend.
When it's looking bad, it's afriend asking for help, for
helping, for an intervention.
Basically, yeah, that's.
That's the very summarizedversion of it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I love that.
It's your friend asking forhelp.
I love that because I I it.
It can be.
I actually didn't struggle thatbadly with acne.
My sister did, I didn't.
I had the dry skin situation Iwould have like these dry
patches, like the red drypatches on my face in the winter
, and I had eczema on my bodygrowing up.
(29:13):
But it is, it's this, it's thisindication.
It's our body talking exactlywhat you said.
It's just our body talking andsaying, hey, something's not
working.
So what can I try to switch itup and you mentioned this in the
beginning, but just, you know,I think it's worth reiterating
(29:33):
of it's our skincare and it'salso how we're sleeping, what
we're eating, the exercise we'regetting.
I mean, it's so multifactorialand I know that when my skin
looks the best, it's when I'mdoing all of those things to
nourish my body and doing theskincare on top of it.
It's not, it's never just onething.
(29:55):
No matter what we're talkingabout, it's never just one thing
is the answer.
And so, playing around with allof those things, but yeah,
thank you.
Thank you for that information.
I have one more question andthen I want to talk a little
human design.
There's this serum and forgiveme, I did not go online and
(30:16):
research it, but it's yourmicroalgae immune B3 serum.
I'm so curious about this one.
I don't know why I'm just socurious about it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
What?
Why are you curious?
Tell me why you're curious.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
It looks different than the other products, it
smells different than the otherproducts.
It goes on really well.
And algae algae just is aninteresting word.
I'm like what am I putting onmy face for real?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Algae.
It's.
You know what algae is?
It grows in the sea, you know.
So it's the extract of themicroalgae.
It's, um, it's rich in vitaminb12 and we have niacinamide in
there, snow mushroom andhyaluronic acid.
Okay, yeah, and peptides and,um, you just need a tiny bit of
(31:11):
that.
Just a tiny bit, not too much,because I like water-based
serums and that's like a gel.
Yeah, people cannot see itright now.
It's like a gel.
Uh, sometimes during the summeryou don't want to have a cream,
especially if you're outside.
Those are scorching hot, butstill you need to be moisturized
(31:31):
and still you may need to havethe peptides and the niacinamide
and the antioxidants.
In that case, the serum isideal because it's water-based
gel and you can put it on just atiny bit.
Just a tiny bit.
Two drops is enough for thewhole face and the neck and
you're done with it.
Um, that that's the beauty ofit.
(31:52):
I mean it.
And also it makes more like mypores to look smaller and lifted
.
It just shrinks them.
So I have pores.
Yeah, I have everything.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I have pores, I had acne, I had everything which is
so good to hear the differences,you know, because I yeah, I've
I've worked with skincarecompanies before and everyone
has a different story.
And I think it's reallyimportant to tell everyone's
story because we all havedifferent skin and we all have
these different things that wedeal with yeah, and we have.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Uh, you didn't have a chance to try those because
those just came up.
A week ago we came out with anew device called Uncafe
Somebody Treatment Device andthat is a LED light therapy
device.
It has three different LEDlights and also radio frequency,
ems ultrasound, and you can useit on your face and you can use
(32:48):
it on your body and here's.
And it also has two gels, onefor the body, one for the face.
All anti, uh a, and I don'twant to say anti-aging, I, I'm
gonna say preventative aging,you know.
So what this does is.
Everybody knows the length.
Light therapy is a thing now.
(33:10):
It's in public, everybody talksabout it.
However, I like the tools outthere, but they're so tiny, the
surface is so tiny, you have todo hours and hours of
application.
Okay, you can do it only to theface.
You can do it only to the face.
I wanted a device that I coulddo it on my face and on my body,
(33:33):
because my body goes througheverything that my face, my skin
on my face goes through.
So why make a discrimination?
It's a discrimination, you know.
So this device can do the faceand the body.
It has the LED light, it hasall that, so it helps visibly
with the tightening.
(33:53):
So it's like taking your faceto the gym so you can work out
your muscles in your body, right.
But you can't do it on yourface, especially for some people
like me.
I sag, I sag.
I'm getting older, I'm sagging,I'm not wrinkling as much, but
that means that I need to workmy muscles a little bit more
(34:14):
than somebody younger.
So that means I need to take myface to the gym.
So basically, this device isyour facial gym.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I love that.
I love red light therapy.
I'm, oh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
can see the difference how my face lifts up,
I mean my face, half of my faceis droopy, the other one goes
up.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
It is interesting, so fun.
Thank you for sharing that.
It is so, it's so interestingand I do the red light therapy
on my face, on my body,absolutely love it.
It really helps withinflammation too and pain on
your body, and I love the faceaspect of it too.
So thank you for sharing.
(35:01):
Let me pull something from yourchart, I think.
Really, I think I just want totalk about I always talk about
energy centers, but I'm going totalk about them because so for
you, are you familiar with thechakra system at all?
A little bit, okay.
So human designer, human designbody graph chart.
(35:21):
Like you have I'll show youthis and anyone watching like
this is your human design chart,so it kind of looks like a body
.
You have your head up here andthen you're like tailbone down
here, and so we have all ofthese centers in our human
design chart is what they'recalled and they're either going
to be colored in or not coloredin, and a lot of people I really
(35:45):
should have the percentage, Ithink it's only like 20% of
people have a defined crowncenter, so that top triangle,
and a defined Ajna, which is thebottom triangle, and you have
both of them colored in.
So I want to just kind of chata little bit about that With our
energy centers.
These are our two head centers.
(36:06):
Everything else is in our body.
So one of the things that Ialways say when I'm working with
clients is look at how manyenergy centers on your body and
that's how much information iscoming from your body, versus
just our two energy centers inour head.
So all of your information,like you said, should be coming
from.
Most of our information shouldbe coming from our body and
(36:28):
listening to our body and howour body is responding and
reacting to ingredients sleep,food, rest, stress.
So our two head centers, youhaving the defined crown and
defined Ajna anytime we have adefined center or colored in
center, it just simply means howI explain it is we have more
(36:48):
consistent access to the energy,the characteristics of those
centers.
So our crown is how we like takein information.
I always like pull my handsdown from my head.
It's how we receive information, how we take in information.
And then the Ajna is how weprocess the information, how we
(37:11):
then move.
That, like all of our thoughts,continue to move down into our
body.
It's how we learn and how weprocess and how we take in
information and having them bothdefined it means that you
consistently take in informationin a similar way and you
(37:32):
process information in a similarway, which you just you strike
me, and I don't know you verywell, so I mean, these are like
kind of just like outsideperspectives, but you strike me
as someone that is prettymentally sound and like a little
headstrong almost, and it kindof just makes sense to see.
It's just kind of cool to seethe defined head center and Ajna
(37:56):
center defined.
And it's not that we'restubborn or there's nothing like
good or bad about having adefined or undefined center, but
it's just more the way in whichwe process the information is
more consistent.
Versus most people are going tohave at least one of those two
centers undefined.
That means that you're reallyopen.
(38:19):
Like you might feel a littlebit more mental pressure.
You might feel a little bitmore open to oh, like I can
receive information in all thesedifferent ways and like maybe
even sometimes a little moreindecisive too, which shows up
in your chart other places aswell.
But anyway, that's your littlehuman design tidbit for today I
(38:44):
want to close.
I have one final, just funquestion to close with.
But if people are listening andthey found you very interesting
.
They want to check out Avicenna.
They want to learn more fromyou.
Where do you hang out?
Where can they connect with you?
Where can they learn?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
more.
Visit our website AvicennaA-V-E-S-E-E-N-Acom, and then
they can shoot out an email fromthere if they want, from the
contact pages, or if they'remore social media inclined, they
can find us on Instagram asAvicenna and send us a DM or
(39:22):
drop a comment.
We always see, we always answer.
If it's even light.
We still answer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I love that, yeah, and I will tag or I'll, you know
, list all of that.
In the description below youcan click the tags.
You can follow up that way,okay, so I'm doing a new thing
on my podcast.
I used to close with the samequestion every time, and now I
have these rotating questionsevery time.
(39:50):
And now I have these rotatingquestions, okay, so, um, okay,
here's your question.
Last question what does peakperformance mean to you?
And this is beyond productivity, beyond being like really
productive, but if you look backin your life and you're like
this is where I feel I've reallyhit my peak performance, what
does that mean to you?
(40:11):
I did my best.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Oh yep, I did my best .
And uh, unfortunately I'm aperfectionist, okay, and my best
is a little extreme.
I go to town.
I'm like we need to do this,this, this, this, this.
I have a check missed for it,yeah, but I need to be satisfied
(40:35):
.
I need to satisfy my urgesaying that, did I cover
everything?
Did I do it right?
And uh, was it ethicallycorrect?
You know that that is my peakperformance, because if I could
put my head to my pillow with100% peace, that is peak
performance.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I love that and it's so funny.
You're a generator because orlike keyword, as a generator,
knowing that you're in alignmentis feeling satisfaction, so
that's like literally the wordwe use.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And in case there's music comes in, I feel no
satisfaction.
What was that like?
Literally the word we use and Ifeel no satisfaction.
What was that?
Rolling Stone, rolling Stonesong.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yes, oh my gosh.
Thank you so much for coming on, Dr Ibra.
This was such a funconversation and thank you for
educating us and and sharingyour wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
For having me, Hannah .
I hope we entertained everyone.
I think we did.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Okay.
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well.
So today is one of my likenerdy selves dream to talk more
about skincare and the sciencebehind skincare and hormones and
how our skin changes over time.
So today I'm joined by Dr Ibru.
(00:23):
She's an immunologist.
She founded a skincare companycalled Avacina.
She's also a 4-6 emotionalgenerator, which we were just
talking a little bit about humandesign before we hit record.
So I like to pepper in a littlehuman design in our conversation
so it makes it more easilydigestible, which is kind of
funny that you, when you reachedout to me, one of the things
(00:45):
that you said was you like totalk about skincare and the
importance of like ingredients,dosage and administration and
make it easily digestible forpeople to understand, and that's
all we're going to talk about.
So before we get all into that,first of all, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast.
I'm very excited to chat withyou again and I would love for
(01:07):
you to give a little intro ofyourself.
Who is Dr Ibru?
What brought you to Avacina andwhat brought you to where you
are today?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Sure, Thank you, hannah, first of all, for having
me and hi everybody.
So, as she said, my name is DrIbru and I'm an immunologist and
a molecular medicine expert,and for years I worked on the
impact of estrogen on the immunesystem and how estrogen
modulates the inflammation, whywomen have a stronger immune
(01:39):
system and also, on the otherside of the sword, why would
they get more autoimmunediseases.
So that was, you know, theheart of my research and how
Ovecina came out of thatresearch.
Because, due to personalreasons and also the beauty
industry pissed me off.
And here's how.
(02:00):
So when I was doing my PhD, myskin used to break constantly
due to stress, you name it.
And, of course, when you'redoing PhD, you're working 14
hours, 16 hours a day.
You are either not eatinganything or binging on fast food
when you find it.
To be honest, that doesn't helpyour body or your face from
(02:21):
inside out, and when you add thestress on top of it, oh God,
it's a bad cocktail.
You know it's really bad.
So I started breaking out.
And when you're a student,every cent counts.
And, however, I found a way.
I got in and went and boughtthis mint colored skincare brand
(02:43):
.
You all know it Since the 80s,saying we're good for acne prone
skin.
And then I got it.
I started using it and a weeklater my skin turned gray.
I'm like I'm not kidding you,it looks great.
And my husband was like yourface looks great.
And this morning I'm like whatare you talking about?
(03:04):
And I looked at the mirror.
I'm not kidding you, it's likeskin color, but it looks gray,
like dream dullness.
I don't know how to explain.
So I freaked out.
Of course, I had to go to thelab and my professor is looking.
I was like you know, you lookweird.
I was like iush, no, we're notdiscussing that.
(03:26):
And that's the day when I gotreally, really mad.
Because we have all thisscience available, we have
dermatologists, we haveimmunologists, we have everybody
.
And these big companies havetons of money to employ all this
science into these overpricedproducts to offer us better
stuff, which they choose not tobecause it's more profit.
(03:49):
Everybody loves a profit whodoesn't?
But it's not ethical.
So I think that's the day whenI got mad and said enough is
enough, I'm going to figure thisout.
So I started learning cosmeticformulations, cosmetic chemistry
, got into that, and then Idecided to combine all the
(04:09):
knowledge and background I havein immunology, dermatology,
molecular medicine, withcosmetic science, and that's how
Avicenna was born.
And the first testers are my momand dad, and my dad was a
transplant surgeon and a generalsurgeon and my mom was a
(04:29):
oncologist pathologist.
Both of them are very hardcore.
Every time I discuss them, uh,discuss my research with them,
they would be much more tougherthan my professor on me saying
that, oh, you didn't do this,you didn't look at this paper.
I'm like you're not supposed toknow everything.
They knew everything, believeme.
(04:50):
I'm like okay, we'll do this.
So when they started testing itand my mom and dad put me on the
spot it's like I'm defending anew thesis, right?
Like, did you do this?
Did you do that?
Did you do the microbialtesting?
Did you do this?
Did you do that?
Did you do the microbialtesting?
Did you do this?
Did you do that?
And I was like yes, yes, yes,yes, and this is the principle
and this is why we're doing itand this is all the signs of
(05:11):
inflammation we're focusing onand blah, blah, blah.
And my dad was like kid, you'reonto something.
You gotta share this with theworld.
You're doing something goodhere.
This is working, and that's howAvicenna born.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I love that.
I love your dad, by the way.
I was like, oh my gosh soundsso hardcore, maybe not growing
up, maybe I wouldn't want thatdad growing up, but I love that
journey and I love that they'reable to challenge you and really
push you to create thisbeautiful company.
So let's define you've said ita couple of times.
Let's define inflammation.
(05:47):
What is that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So, before we go into explaining what inflammation is
.
I want to clarify somethingthat the beauty industry and the
food industry have been pushingon us for the last year.
That is inflammation, andthey've been pushing this,
saying inflammation is bad, youneed to do anti-inflammation,
and blah, blah, blah.
(06:10):
Okay, let's clarify one thingthey don't have one immunologist
on board who knows immunology.
Okay, okay, you needinflammation.
It's the type of inflammationthat makes the difference.
So if we don't haveinflammation, you don't have
anything to defend you againstmicrobes.
(06:31):
You'll be dead.
All of us would be dead, prettymuch.
So the acute inflammation let'sgo into the types of
inflammation Acute inflammationor systemic inflammation is the
one that says okay, there is abug here and this bug is not
good.
It could be a bacteria, itcould be a virus and I need to
(06:52):
defend you.
It's your own SWAT team, it'syour own army silence.
And then it starts the threeminute of the day.
So, after it defeats themicrobes and inflammation goes
up during the defense, and then,after it defeats it, it starts
(07:13):
going down, starting the healingprocess, because those tissues,
those cells are damaged andneeds to be cleaned up, tidied
up and healed.
However, what is bad is thechronic inflammation.
When inflammation is always up,it could be due to lifestyle
(07:33):
changes, it could be due tostress, it could be some
internal problem going on with acertain kind of disease, like
autoimmune diseases,neurodegenerative diseases, that
kind of stuff.
So inflammation goes up highand it cannot come down.
So when it's really high, thatis the chronic inflammation.
It's always there and it startsattacking you.
(07:55):
So that is the inflammationtype we do not want to be on all
the time.
Inflammaging is right inbetween between acute
inflammation and chronicinflammation.
So inflammation is the silent,quiet, micro level of
inflammation.
So it's not as high as chronic,where you're seeing the signs
(08:18):
like breaking out or you'regetting sick, that you can
actually see what inflammationdoes.
Inflammation is down, silent.
It's doing the trick behind theclosed doors but still doing
the damage.
So why does it happen?
Lifestyle, bad night's sleep,bad food, extreme stress
(08:41):
everybody's going throughextreme stress these days.
That increases cortisol andwhat it does is especially
stress.
It tells your brain fight orrun.
But it's not that.
Your body is not going to knowif you're fighting or running.
So what it's going to do it'sgoing to try to conserve energy
(09:02):
and resources and it's going tostart dimming down everything,
dimming down the energy.
That includes the energy thatgoes to your immune system.
Okay, so that's why you getsick easier when you're stressed
.
That's another reason.
So, but what it also does, itinduces inflammation, that
silent inflammation.
And what does it do?
(09:23):
In the long run, you startaging prematurely.
That's the one that's reflectedon the skin, it mirrors on the
skin.
You start looking tired, morethan ever more dull, more than
ever less hydrated, you know.
And in the body, your jointsache, you can't sleep correctly,
you everything adds up.
(09:45):
So that is influencing, andwe're the first one, I'm the
first one to talk about it inthe beauty industry, and now
everybody's picking up on it,which is great.
I love it.
But the most important thingand this is why I wanted to talk
to your audience was it's aboutthe correct science, the
correct information, not it'sabout the correct science, the
(10:05):
correct information, not scaryscience.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I don't believe in scary science.
Well, it's a good point andsomething that maybe other
people can align with on thispodcast and in my community is
we talk often I've talked withfunctional health coaches or
nutritionists and we talk aboutit in terms of food and it's not
so much I mean, obviously it iswhat you're eating but we talk
(10:29):
a lot about what you're eatingand not when you're eating it or
how you're eating it or in whatcapacity you're eating it, and
all of that makes such a hugedifference In human design.
I talk about it a lot because wehave a digestion type and
that's how not only how we takein food most easily, but also
how we take in information andhow we kind of digest the world
(10:52):
like, process our information,and we all have these different
ways that we most easilyassimilate food and nutrients.
And so why wouldn't that alsobe applied to skincare, which is
?
It's not just and that wassomething that we talked about
previously it's not just theingredients, it's the potency
(11:15):
and the dosage of theingredients.
So can you speak a little biton that, because I think that's
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So what you said actually resonates completely
with the skin care.
So everybody thinks that skincare and that's what industry
made us believe that it'ssomething to be fixed it's not
something to be fixed.
It tells you what's going oninside.
It's your body's way of talkingto you, right?
So when you're talking aboutinformation, this could be
(11:46):
knowledge.
This could be food.
Food is also information.
It is processed in the body andthen your skin says I don't
like this, you're not gettingenough water or you're getting
too much stressful information.
So when you say how humandesign shows how you process
(12:07):
that information on so manylevels, it's perfect.
It perfectly aligns with whatyour skin is trying to tell you
in the morning, say um, I looklike crap.
Why do I look like crap?
That's why that's why it'stelling you it's like you need
to change something there.
There's a process problem.
So when we go into theingredient type and the dose,
(12:29):
that is very important.
So anything like, for example,you're choosing the information
that comes into your mind and inyour space right like, for
example, you don't want tolisten any news today, any
negative news today, so youdon't turn on the tv and you
don't get that negative energy.
That is a choice.
(12:50):
Ingredients and skincare isalso your choice.
So a good formulator can chooseingredients that work together
and place as much as ingredientsinto a product as possible to
make it multitasking.
And there is a certain dose forevery ingredient and this is
(13:10):
how it's determined, either withscientific research, where you
can find it on PubMed, orsuppliers do their research in
their own lab and give you thisinformation sheet saying that,
for example, for peptides, youcan use it from 1% to 3% and
this is the effective range.
If you use it less than 1%, itdoesn't make anything, but if
(13:31):
you use it more than 3%, it'suseless.
You don't need to.
It's like overloading, youdon't need it.
So this is the sweet point.
So a good formulator knowsthose and selects those.
However, there are somecompanies out there that sells,
for example, pure powderedniacinamide.
(13:51):
This is one of the ingredients,vitamin B3.
Why would you sell purepowdered niacinamide?
What are you going to do withit?
It is crazy.
Even in the lab, when we'rehandling these ingredients, we
wear gloves because that's apure ingredient.
So what's?
(14:12):
It could cause allergies.
The pure ingredient.
It's so powerful, it's 100powerful, right.
Why would you sell that?
Because in pubmed, for example,for neosinamide, and pubmed is
where all the researchers, allthe scientists, upload their
papers, or you can pull find allthe scientific research there.
(14:34):
So when you look there, thevalue, the percentage that
neosinamide was studied, wasfive percent and even at five
percent, they saw 90 to 95%positive results.
Why would you go above 5%?
It's marketing.
So marketing is is a good wayof selling everything.
(14:57):
However, it can hurt the people, so that's where the science
gets in.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, which is so frustrating, I think, as a
consumer, as a generallyuneducated consumer, I clearly
do not know as much as you.
That's so.
So how do we find, how do wenavigate?
I guess this, okay, this mightbe a good skincare, this might
(15:26):
be good skincare for me, I meanyeah, and then how do we figure
out, like what's good for meversus what's good for you,
what's a good skincare company?
I mean obviously yours, but butjust to navigate, like, what
are good skincare products andnot good skincare products?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, one of the things is you don't need 10
products on your face.
You don't, and your walletdoesn't need that, right,
because nobody's nobody's richenough to buy poorly made or
cheap products.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So there is a lot of.
There is a marketing angle outthere in the beauty world where
they say their product is verycheap, but you know they are not
putting the money into thepackaging and everything and
they sell it very cheaply to themasses.
(16:22):
So it makes me think where didyou cut the corners to make it
so cheap?
Because I know all theingredient prices.
They're not.
They're not cheap, especiallynow.
They're very expensive.
Especially peptides are hard tomake.
They're made in the lab.
They go through all these veryrigorous testing.
None of the stuff that reallyworks is cheap in the beauty
(16:45):
world.
I'm sorry.
Uh, so that's the reality ofthings.
So when you see a very cheaplypositioned product, it makes me
question where did you cut thecorners from?
Did you cut it from the sizedid?
Did you buy the products inbulk?
If you bought it in bulk, areyou using it before the shelf
life is over, or is it likeeffective or is it high quality?
(17:07):
I wouldn't touch those becauseI tried those, by the way,
because I was curious.
I broke out.
It took me a month to fix myface and I was like breaking out
everywhere.
It was bad.
So that's the cheap productsside and I was like breaking out
everywhere.
It was bad.
So that's the cheap productsside, and then there is a very,
very expensive luxury heritageproduct side, and one of them is
(17:28):
Chanel, like one of them.
And when you look at there andbecause I'm in the business, I'm
looking at things and I'm likethis doesn't cost that much.
This is not $3,000 cream.
I mean, for example, there'sone cream's, one cream, lamer.
Everybody's in love with it.
I'm looking at it looks thesame nearly with ingredients.
(17:49):
I'm like, uh, I'll go get nivea.
Then you know, these are mypersonal experiences and I can
only imagine how confusing it'sgoing to be for a daily consumer
.
So that is why we're talkingabout science and all this today
with you.
So what can you do?
What can you do?
How can you protect yourself Ifyou can go with the testers?
(18:12):
You have a question ask for atester, because a good company
would have a tester set.
We have one, by the way.
You can get on our website.
You can get the discovery kitand it will be 15% off for any
of the products you're going topurchase later.
Because here's the thing we loveour cream, but you may not love
(18:34):
it.
That's personal preference.
We know it works, but again,it's personal preference.
Yeah, so it's like colors youmay like blue, I may like pink.
That's easy.
So that's why we would like togive that freedom, but most of
the big companies don't have atester kit they sell.
They say buy my three thousanddollars cream and if it doesn't
(18:55):
work, return it in 30 days.
Do you know how hard it is toreturn anything to the companies
?
Oh my god.
Discuss that.
That's another story.
So that's one thing.
Go for the testers.
Test that if you like it, thenpurchase the big product that's
more cost effective.
Don't go for the very cheapproducts, because when you're
(19:17):
going for cheap, at the end ofthe road the result to fix is
going to be more expensiveyou're going to pay more money
in the long run.
Third of all, don't buy fivelike 10 different creams to
solve 10 different problems.
Find a cream or a serum or askincare product that focuses
(19:39):
more than one problem.
You need a multitasking product.
It could be enough to have onecream that does the trick during
the day and night.
That way, even though if thatone would be more expensive
because it has more ingredients,more peptides, more hyaluronic
acid in it, in the long runyou're saving money because
(20:00):
you're using less.
You are, uh, touching your faceless, which is better, because
your skin doesn't like to betouched a lot.
Remember covid days when we hadthe mask and it was causing
acne?
Everybody touched yeah that.
So three things don't go for thecheap stuff, because it will
cost you more.
Look for companies that aretransparent, has all the
(20:22):
ingredients listing and all thesigns on their website.
If you're not satisfied, emailthem.
Someone should answer you withthe answers you need.
Three get the tester kit.
Try it yourself so you willhave a peace of mind.
Look for all the tests, alleverything you're putting the
(20:44):
money in, and this is aninvestment in yourself.
Don't shy away from investingin yourself, and please don't
believe in the marketing tricks.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Six, six things, three things, six things, just
kidding.
No thank you.
That's really helpful and Iwill say I have tried your
products, thank you.
And something that I wouldmaybe add that I noticed as a
difference is you don't reallyneed a lot of, especially the.
(21:16):
I mean really everything theface wash Like I just did a
couple dabs and the face washkind of foams really nicely,
which is what was really coolfor me.
Um, but even the serums and thelotion, the, the um, I have it
right here, what's it called?
Um, yeah, the perfection cream,like it slides on very easily.
(21:36):
So I feel like some, you know, Ialso have gone the cheap route
in my younger years and you justfeel like you have to slather
so much on and you go to bedjust with these layers and
layers, because I have very,very dry, sensitive skin and
I've always had that and it hasimproved in probably in the
(21:57):
commitment that I've taken in myskin.
So it's not quite as bad as itwas when I was younger, but I
used to.
I feel like just have to likelather everything up and then go
to bed and I would still wakeup with really dry skin.
So it's just.
That was something that I noted, that I wanted to make note of
with you and just for everyonelistening if they're interested,
is it goes on, so I feel likeyou really don't need.
(22:21):
It's just these little dabs andthen it just really slides over
your skin very easily and youstill feel hydrated, which is
very important to me.
Not everyone has dry skin, butit's really uncomfortable, you
know, to like feel like you havedry skin and you need to put
more lotion on all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Uh-oh, true.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
True, I mean dryness is one of the things.
Yeah, I don't know if theinternet is going out, but I
think it's okay.
I think it just blocked us fora minute.
We're talking about mercuryretrograde, so we're just trying
to trying to make it work outhere.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Mercury retrograde we're not in, but right now it
feels like it whatever you callit the shadow or what I've been
shadowed it's the full moon.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
We had a full moon yesterday, so I think it's the
full moon just still doing itsthing.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I don't know what's going on I don't know, if it
goes like this at the night, I'mgonna get on the top of the
roof and start howling.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So another thing that you said that I would love to
touch on is talking in a lot ofI know a lot of your research is
on hormone changes and how thataffects our skin as we're aging
, and that, I agree, I think, issomething that we don't really
talk about often, especiallylike pregnancy or menopause.
(23:48):
I mean, I think we talk alittle bit more about the
teenage hormone and like theacne and all of that.
I've always kind of heard aboutthat, but not the latter years
of our lives, and I know that alot of your research has been on
specifically estrogen, but justhormones and skin fluctuation.
So can we touch on that as well?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So it's hard to be a female.
Okay, as a female, I'm going tosay that we don't have a
breather.
When you're a teenager, you'regoing through all these hormonal
changes.
It affects your how you think,your personality, your
confidence levels and, on top ofit, if you get cystic acne, oh
(24:31):
boy, that is not fun.
So you go through that.
And then when you're in yourreproductive years, during the
month, we go through thesehormonal and I don't want to say
mental mental is not a verygood word but soul changes.
Let's say soul changes, sure,like how you feel, what you go
(24:54):
through, what you, what yourperception is, and that also
reflects on your skin and one ofthe things that we've been told
that you have to, especiallyduring, like teenager years and
especially reproductive years.
If you're an oily skin, right,you're supposed to use non-oily
(25:16):
products, products that doesn'thave any oil in it.
You have to cleanse, like crazy, crazy, which breaks you out
more.
So that was the informationthat the beauty, uh industry
pushed on us.
But the dermatologist was likeno, no, no, no, no, no.
You don't wash that much, youdon't strip your skin, you're
gonna make it worse.
But with the social media, thedermatologists are explaining
(25:38):
this to the masses saying, no,that is wrong.
So that's the thing.
And as you go through pregnancy,your skin is again changing.
Your body is changing.
For God's sakes.
I mean becoming huge and lotsof swelling.
It wasn't fun.
Everybody's like, oh you mustbe in bliss.
(26:00):
You know you're pregnant.
I'm not, I'm just bloated.
I want sushi and I can't eat it.
I am miserable right now.
It's not easy.
I mean, it's a blessing we havea very healthy daughter.
I'm grateful for that.
But boy it's hard on the womenhard and your husband asks like
(26:21):
why?
Why are you always complaining?
Your feet are so like.
Would you like to have a look?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
yeah, they're humongous, I can't wear my shoes
.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But that, all that shows up on your skin again, all
those changes, because estrogenis just rocket high when you
are pregnant and then you givebirth, everything comes crashing
down.
Yeah, you know, some women gointo postnatal depression
because it's too hard on them.
So they're like like me, I'mlike, I don't feel anything, but
(26:54):
I'm not okay either you know sobut again, your fin, your skin
feels after pregnancy, feelslike paper.
Mine felt like dry paper and Iwas like trying to figure it out
, you know.
But then after some time itnormalized, then you get it
start getting into perimenopause.
(27:14):
Perimenopause sometimes womenbreak out badly.
Badly, I mean, I had that too.
Am I a teenager?
Speaker 1 (27:22):
again what's going on ?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm like I don't want this.
That was the estrogen trying tolike going up, going down,
going up, going down.
So your body, your skin, istrying to say whoops, estrogen
is up, okay, let's break outagain.
Oh no, we're back normal andthen you go into menopause.
That is not fun.
(27:45):
So what, what can you do?
What can you do?
I mean, men are pretty muchstable, like, yeah, they're
pretty much stable, uh, butwomen is like up, down, down, up
, up, up down, just a little bitflat up again.
So all you can do is for yourskin is this uh, keep it clean,
(28:06):
but not stripped clean.
Keep it moisturized, but notoverloaded.
Don't suffocate it and go forthe peptides, go for the good
antioxidants, go for the uh,clean ingredients that you would
like, and your skin is gonnatell you when you apply it.
It's gonna look like oh, I'm sohappy, I'm moisturized, I feel
(28:28):
good, you know.
Or it's gonna look like this isnot enough.
You need more moisture, changeyour cream, you know.
So, listen to your skin.
Look, it's not your enemy, it'syour best friend.
When it's looking bad, it's afriend asking for help, for
helping, for an intervention.
Basically, yeah, that's.
That's the very summarizedversion of it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I love that.
It's your friend asking forhelp.
I love that because I I it.
It can be.
I actually didn't struggle thatbadly with acne.
My sister did, I didn't.
I had the dry skin situation Iwould have like these dry
patches, like the red drypatches on my face in the winter
, and I had eczema on my bodygrowing up.
(29:13):
But it is, it's this, it's thisindication.
It's our body talking exactlywhat you said.
It's just our body talking andsaying, hey, something's not
working.
So what can I try to switch itup and you mentioned this in the
beginning, but just, you know,I think it's worth reiterating
(29:33):
of it's our skincare and it'salso how we're sleeping, what
we're eating, the exercise we'regetting.
I mean, it's so multifactorialand I know that when my skin
looks the best, it's when I'mdoing all of those things to
nourish my body and doing theskincare on top of it.
It's not, it's never just onething.
(29:55):
No matter what we're talkingabout, it's never just one thing
is the answer.
And so, playing around with allof those things, but yeah,
thank you.
Thank you for that information.
I have one more question andthen I want to talk a little
human design.
There's this serum and forgiveme, I did not go online and
(30:16):
research it, but it's yourmicroalgae immune B3 serum.
I'm so curious about this one.
I don't know why I'm just socurious about it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
What?
Why are you curious?
Tell me why you're curious.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
It looks different than the other products, it
smells different than the otherproducts.
It goes on really well.
And algae algae just is aninteresting word.
I'm like what am I putting onmy face for real?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Algae.
It's.
You know what algae is?
It grows in the sea, you know.
So it's the extract of themicroalgae.
It's, um, it's rich in vitaminb12 and we have niacinamide in
there, snow mushroom andhyaluronic acid.
Okay, yeah, and peptides and,um, you just need a tiny bit of
(31:11):
that.
Just a tiny bit, not too much,because I like water-based
serums and that's like a gel.
Yeah, people cannot see itright now.
It's like a gel.
Uh, sometimes during the summeryou don't want to have a cream,
especially if you're outside.
Those are scorching hot, butstill you need to be moisturized
(31:31):
and still you may need to havethe peptides and the niacinamide
and the antioxidants.
In that case, the serum isideal because it's water-based
gel and you can put it on just atiny bit.
Just a tiny bit.
Two drops is enough for thewhole face and the neck and
you're done with it.
Um, that that's the beauty ofit.
(31:52):
I mean it.
And also it makes more like mypores to look smaller and lifted
.
It just shrinks them.
So I have pores.
Yeah, I have everything.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I have pores, I had acne, I had everything which is
so good to hear the differences,you know, because I yeah, I've
I've worked with skincarecompanies before and everyone
has a different story.
And I think it's reallyimportant to tell everyone's
story because we all havedifferent skin and we all have
these different things that wedeal with yeah, and we have.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Uh, you didn't have a chance to try those because
those just came up.
A week ago we came out with anew device called Uncafe
Somebody Treatment Device andthat is a LED light therapy
device.
It has three different LEDlights and also radio frequency,
ems ultrasound, and you can useit on your face and you can use
(32:48):
it on your body and here's.
And it also has two gels, onefor the body, one for the face.
All anti, uh a, and I don'twant to say anti-aging, I, I'm
gonna say preventative aging,you know.
So what this does is.
Everybody knows the length.
Light therapy is a thing now.
(33:10):
It's in public, everybody talksabout it.
However, I like the tools outthere, but they're so tiny, the
surface is so tiny, you have todo hours and hours of
application.
Okay, you can do it only to theface.
You can do it only to the face.
I wanted a device that I coulddo it on my face and on my body,
(33:33):
because my body goes througheverything that my face, my skin
on my face goes through.
So why make a discrimination?
It's a discrimination, you know.
So this device can do the faceand the body.
It has the LED light, it hasall that, so it helps visibly
with the tightening.
(33:53):
So it's like taking your faceto the gym so you can work out
your muscles in your body, right.
But you can't do it on yourface, especially for some people
like me.
I sag, I sag.
I'm getting older, I'm sagging,I'm not wrinkling as much, but
that means that I need to workmy muscles a little bit more
(34:14):
than somebody younger.
So that means I need to take myface to the gym.
So basically, this device isyour facial gym.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I love that.
I love red light therapy.
I'm, oh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
can see the difference how my face lifts up,
I mean my face, half of my faceis droopy, the other one goes
up.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
It is interesting, so fun.
Thank you for sharing that.
It is so, it's so interestingand I do the red light therapy
on my face, on my body,absolutely love it.
It really helps withinflammation too and pain on
your body, and I love the faceaspect of it too.
So thank you for sharing.
(35:01):
Let me pull something from yourchart, I think.
Really, I think I just want totalk about I always talk about
energy centers, but I'm going totalk about them because so for
you, are you familiar with thechakra system at all?
A little bit, okay.
So human designer, human designbody graph chart.
(35:21):
Like you have I'll show youthis and anyone watching like
this is your human design chart,so it kind of looks like a body
.
You have your head up here andthen you're like tailbone down
here, and so we have all ofthese centers in our human
design chart is what they'recalled and they're either going
to be colored in or not coloredin, and a lot of people I really
(35:45):
should have the percentage, Ithink it's only like 20% of
people have a defined crowncenter, so that top triangle,
and a defined Ajna, which is thebottom triangle, and you have
both of them colored in.
So I want to just kind of chata little bit about that With our
energy centers.
These are our two head centers.
(36:06):
Everything else is in our body.
So one of the things that Ialways say when I'm working with
clients is look at how manyenergy centers on your body and
that's how much information iscoming from your body, versus
just our two energy centers inour head.
So all of your information,like you said, should be coming
from.
Most of our information shouldbe coming from our body and
(36:28):
listening to our body and howour body is responding and
reacting to ingredients sleep,food, rest, stress.
So our two head centers, youhaving the defined crown and
defined Ajna anytime we have adefined center or colored in
center, it just simply means howI explain it is we have more
(36:48):
consistent access to the energy,the characteristics of those
centers.
So our crown is how we like takein information.
I always like pull my handsdown from my head.
It's how we receive information, how we take in information.
And then the Ajna is how weprocess the information, how we
(37:11):
then move.
That, like all of our thoughts,continue to move down into our
body.
It's how we learn and how weprocess and how we take in
information and having them bothdefined it means that you
consistently take in informationin a similar way and you
(37:32):
process information in a similarway, which you just you strike
me, and I don't know you verywell, so I mean, these are like
kind of just like outsideperspectives, but you strike me
as someone that is prettymentally sound and like a little
headstrong almost, and it kindof just makes sense to see.
It's just kind of cool to seethe defined head center and Ajna
(37:56):
center defined.
And it's not that we'restubborn or there's nothing like
good or bad about having adefined or undefined center, but
it's just more the way in whichwe process the information is
more consistent.
Versus most people are going tohave at least one of those two
centers undefined.
That means that you're reallyopen.
(38:19):
Like you might feel a littlebit more mental pressure.
You might feel a little bitmore open to oh, like I can
receive information in all thesedifferent ways and like maybe
even sometimes a little moreindecisive too, which shows up
in your chart other places aswell.
But anyway, that's your littlehuman design tidbit for today I
(38:44):
want to close.
I have one final, just funquestion to close with.
But if people are listening andthey found you very interesting
.
They want to check out Avicenna.
They want to learn more fromyou.
Where do you hang out?
Where can they connect with you?
Where can they learn?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
more.
Visit our website AvicennaA-V-E-S-E-E-N-Acom, and then
they can shoot out an email fromthere if they want, from the
contact pages, or if they'remore social media inclined, they
can find us on Instagram asAvicenna and send us a DM or
(39:22):
drop a comment.
We always see, we always answer.
If it's even light.
We still answer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I love that, yeah, and I will tag or I'll, you know
, list all of that.
In the description below youcan click the tags.
You can follow up that way,okay, so I'm doing a new thing
on my podcast.
I used to close with the samequestion every time, and now I
have these rotating questionsevery time.
(39:50):
And now I have these rotatingquestions, okay, so, um, okay,
here's your question.
Last question what does peakperformance mean to you?
And this is beyond productivity, beyond being like really
productive, but if you look backin your life and you're like
this is where I feel I've reallyhit my peak performance, what
does that mean to you?
(40:11):
I did my best.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Oh yep, I did my best .
And uh, unfortunately I'm aperfectionist, okay, and my best
is a little extreme.
I go to town.
I'm like we need to do this,this, this, this, this.
I have a check missed for it,yeah, but I need to be satisfied
(40:35):
.
I need to satisfy my urgesaying that, did I cover
everything?
Did I do it right?
And uh, was it ethicallycorrect?
You know that that is my peakperformance, because if I could
put my head to my pillow with100% peace, that is peak
performance.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I love that and it's so funny.
You're a generator because orlike keyword, as a generator,
knowing that you're in alignmentis feeling satisfaction, so
that's like literally the wordwe use.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And in case there's music comes in, I feel no
satisfaction.
What was that like?
Literally the word we use and Ifeel no satisfaction.
What was that?
Rolling Stone, rolling Stonesong.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yes, oh my gosh.
Thank you so much for coming on, Dr Ibra.
This was such a funconversation and thank you for
educating us and and sharingyour wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
For having me, Hannah .
I hope we entertained everyone.
I think we did.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Okay.
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