January 23, 2025 • 48 mins
#141 - Bjorn Lestrud's journey from corporate life to holistic healing has been nothing short of transformative. He shares his experiences with the Light Portal Ceremony, microdosing mushrooms, and the profound effects of sound healing, all while emphasizing the value of personal exploration and growth.
• Bjorn discusses his struggles with anxiety and his background in corporate sales
• Transitioning from the corporate world to explore spiritual avenues
• The impact of microdosing mushrooms on his vision and social anxiety
• Experiences at the Light Portal Ceremony and personal revelations
• Insights into the healing potential of plant medicines and spirit guides
• Introduction to biofield tuning and sound healing as therapeutic modalities
• Bjorn's future aspirations and the importance of flow in life adventures
Be sure and follow Bjorn on Instagram @bluedragonhealing and you can find more information on his website www.bluedragonhealing.net.
You can follow me on Instagram @journeywithjakepodcast.
Want to be a guest on Journey with Jake? Send me a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/journeywithjake
Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind. Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever heard of a Light Portal Ceremony?
According toLightPortalCeremonycom, this
transformative practice inducesaltered states of consciousness,
guiding participants throughvisions, sensory explorations,
deep trance states and evenlucid dream-like experiences,
ultimately leading tolife-altering revelations.
(00:21):
My guest today, bjorn Lestrud,has experienced the Light Portal
ceremony firsthand and isdeeply fascinated by holistic
healing methods.
Bjorn is the founder of BlueDragon Healing, where he focuses
on the power of sound tosupport healing and
transformation.
This is going to be quite theadventure, so get ready to dive
into the fascinating world ofhealing and discovery with Bjorn
(00:43):
Lestrud.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
(01:03):
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination as it is about
(01:27):
the journey.
Welcome back to the show.
My name is Jake Bushman and I'mthe host of Journey with Jake.
I'm so glad you're here and Ihope you're as excited as I am
(01:49):
about today's guest.
Bjorn Lestrud brings a wealthof experience, especially in the
fascinating world of healingthrough shamans, sound and light
.
Before we dive into myconversation with Bjorn, I have
a few quick reminders.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to Journey with Jake
wherever you listen to podcastsand if you're enjoying the show,
I'd be so grateful if you couldleave a rating and review.
(02:10):
It really helps others discoverthe podcast.
You can also stay connectedwith me on Instagram at Journey
with Jake podcast Plus.
Journey with Jake is on YouTube.
Just search Journey with Jake,hit, subscribe and give the show
a like while you're there.
I'm thrilled to share thatJourney with Jake is part of the
Podmatch Podcast Network.
If you're looking to discovernew shows, be sure to check out
(02:31):
podmatchcom forward slashnetwork.
Lastly, I'm so honored to be acontributing author in Sacred
Spaces Subtle Shifts for Mind,body and Home Transformation,
volume 3, which releases onFebruary 18th.
My story is featured in Chapter8, and I can't wait for you to
read it.
You can visitColleenAvezCoachingcom forward
(02:52):
slash events to sign up and bethe first to know when it's
available.
All right, let's jump intotoday's episode with Bjorn
Lestrud.
If you enjoy this conversation,you'll also want to check out
Episode 103 with Scott Gurian.
It's another fantastic listen.
All right, let's get to myconversation with Bjorn.
All right, this is awesome.
I get all these crazyadventurous people out there.
(03:13):
I'm not saying you're crazy, Ijust get adventurous people you
do in my mind.
You do crazy things sometimes,so I'm excited to have your
Bjorn Lestrud.
Did I say it right?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You did.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Awesome.
Hey, welcome to Journey withJake.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Thank you, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you here Before we get
cranking into who you are, whatyou're all about, some of your
adventures that you've been on,how about a little background
where you're from, where yougrew up, that sort of thing?
So we kind of get to know whoyou are a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Sure, I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, of all places
, eventually went to collegekind of locally to Minnesota,
and I mean I did a little travelduring college.
First summer I was living inNorway and I went to a couple of
places, but not much.
I was mostly localized.
You know, I struggled a lotwith like social anxiety, I
(04:04):
guess, anger and stuff like that.
And eventually, after Igraduated college I just started
working in corporate America.
I spent most of my career insales and eventually I went
through what you guess you couldrefer to as a spiritual
awakening and I realized I hadto get the heck out of Dodge,
the heck out of Dodge.
And that set me on a course tosome adventures and a healing
(04:29):
process as well.
And now what I do with myoccupation is I do healing work
and we'll get.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, we'll get to that here in a minute.
I kind of want to go back tothose, you know, wisconsin days,
high school, college.
Why do you think you kind ofhad where do you think the
anxiety stemmed from?
Any idea?
Maybe you don't know?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, there were some times in my life where I
was bullied and that didn't help.
I made fun of my name and stufflike that Just kids.
But I guess maybe I took itpersonally, for like all the way
until I was eight or nine Iwent to this really small, tiny
private school.
It was a Christian school.
I just I think part of it wasthat I didn't have that much
(05:09):
exposure to lots of other kidsand I didn't have the best
behavior.
I was considered ADHD, and sothey put me on Ritalin when I
was four until basically age 17,when I refused to take it
anymore.
When I refused to take itanymore, I don't know, part of
it was the Ritalin kind ofdampened my emotional enthusiasm
a bit in a small communitywhere I just felt like I didn't
(05:32):
fit in.
It's interesting because I'mback there right now and I love
it here for the most part.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well, it's interesting too, because yeah,
you say you know the name Bjorn.
I mean, no one has that namehere.
You mentioned that you were inNorway.
I was like, oh, I thought maybethat's where you were going to
say you were from.
You know, it's Norway, becausethat's kind of like a Norwegian
type name.
So, yeah, so is that kind ofthe ancestry it's like, are your
parents?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
My father.
He's 100%.
What was he passed last year?
100% Norwegian, very proud ofhis heritage, like he can tell
you.
Many could have told you manygenerations back, like who did
what?
And probably five generations.
I don't know how many can goback, but my, my sister's name
is Ingrid, so also Scandinavian.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You guys are right on it.
So I find it interesting.
So yeah, I struggling kind ofjust with the anxiety, adhd,
getting bullied a little bit atBjorn people make fun of the
name, whatever you know thattype of thing.
You go on to college and itsounds like you kind of like you
just went on with whateverybody kind of thinks is the
path.
You know, corporate America,let me get a job, let me get
into sales.
Tell me about that experienceand kind of how that yeah played
(06:37):
out for you when I hadgraduated college, I couldn't
find a job.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I was trying so hard to find a job and I couldn't get
one.
Before I eventually found one,I went to the library one day.
I was like you know what Screwit, I'm just going to go find a
book about how to make money andjust figure out how to make
money.
I stumbled on a Rich Dad, PoorDad.
That really ignited me a lot.
I kept reading this recurringmessage in those Rich Dad series
(07:02):
which was like learn sales,because that's a key to
entrepreneurship.
So I figured, if I get intosales, at least that's something
that eventually I could dosomething like that myself
independently.
And that's how I kind of movedin.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I wish Bjorn, I wish I had some sales skills.
Honestly, I wish I did, becauseI feel like people who know how
to sell can really yeah, can doanything, be an entrepreneur.
They can kind of do anythingthey want because they know they
have those skills.
I think that's something I lack.
I think I struggle with it.
So I think that's yeah, I feellike I do, so I think that's
awesome that you at least knowhow to do that.
What was the breaking point?
(07:36):
When did you decide hey, I'mstopping this and I'm going to
start traveling.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh man, so I was.
I had gone through a couple ofpositions and I was working you
could call it sort of highstakes sales.
I was working in retention butfor, like high end customer
accounts for a big financialcompany, ameriprise Financial.
I was doing super well in termsof I was my performance was
through, my performance wasinsanely high, like scary high
(08:06):
good, and I was making a lot ofmoney for my age you know, and I
thought I was doing well.
One day I started getting intopersonal development a little
bit around that time, readingsome bob proctor and some other
things and exploring differentparts of meditation, and I I
came across stuff on Bob Proctorabout paradigms and how, when
(08:28):
you're really small, before youeven really develop the ability
to think for yourself, you start, your brain is just wide open
and you start taking in all theother people's thoughts of how
things are.
And it showed this diagram.
It called the stick persondiagram or stick person concept,
and it's this.
(08:49):
I don't know if you've everseen it before, but it's like
there's this giant circle thatrepresents the mind and align
right across the center of it.
So the top part's consciousmind, the bottom is the
subconscious and then there's alittle tiny little circle on the
bottom, represent the body.
So it's all about the mind.
And so it showed for paradigmsthat when the baby is, you know,
(09:10):
when you're a baby, basicallythat the top part of the circle
is just missing.
So it showed kind of this imageof all these thoughts going
right, flowing right in, withnothing to stop them.
I was sitting at work one dayand I thought to myself you know
, I want to think what is mymost painful memory?
(09:32):
And I wrote it down.
It was one time when I wasbullied and it just stuck with
me, right.
And I thought to myself youknow, what am I most grateful
for in my life?
Right now I can't remember whatI wrote for that.
But then I thought to myselfwould I have this thing that I'm
grateful for if I had notexperienced this other thing?
And I realized that I wouldn't.
I had this out of body type ofexperience where, right that
(09:54):
moment, it was time to leave forthe day.
So I got up and I was walkingout.
I saw this picture in my mindof the infant with the head open
, flip upside down and all thethoughts start dumping out of
the head.
And then, as I saw thosethoughts dumping out of the head
, tears just started streamingdown my face and I got swept up.
(10:17):
I almost felt like I wasfloating.
I walked probably 20 blocks thewrong way from my home because I
lived at walking distancedowntown from my work, but I
didn't even realize whatdirection I was going.
I was so swept up in the graceof it all and so after that,
going back to work the next day,I realized that experience,
(10:38):
really it shed a layer and itmade me more aware of the
discomfort that I had beenexperiencing.
But sort of suppressing anddenying and just being in my
work building, I was startinggetting a stomachache, like
really uncomfortable, likephysical sensations, and I'm
(10:58):
like I do not want to be hereanymore.
I need to get out of here.
So that was the moment.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That is quite the experience.
I mean, that's, that's prettyincredible that you had such a
life changing experience for younow and, granted, it took you
in the wrong direction, leavingwork and everything else.
Did anybody, like anybody atwork, notice this?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
No, no, every one thing I've learned is that
people nobody really is payingmuch attention to anything but
their own thoughts.
I learned this when I did thisexercise one time called 18
degrees of social freedom, andit's like you start doing really
small things.
Like you look, you know, whenyou're walking in a public place
, look a person in the eye forthree seconds, smile at someone,
and then it gets more and morelike crazy.
(11:43):
Like you know, moonwalk around,a group of strangers do that
and I I did pretty much most ofthe things and I and I realized,
wow, like people didn't evennotice me doing this stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
No one even cares.
Isn't that crazy, that'sinteresting, that's wild.
And the fact that you know,when you came back and you had
that stomach ache and you'rejust like this is not, this
isn't it, this isn't, and whatkind of so where did you go from
there, like, how did you likesay, all right, I'm going to go
to Europe?
Or wherever you went, what waskind of the next, the next step
in Bjorn's travels, I guess?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I got into crypto, got lucky, I guess, and made
some money, and so I went on atrip.
It started with let's see wheredid I go first.
I started with a trip to Europe, went to visit Prague, stayed
there for a month.
I went to Thailand for a coupleof months, to Spain to visit a
friend, so by this time we'retalking well four or five months
(12:38):
, and I came back.
And then, around the new year,I signed up for a group trip for
one of those organizedcompanies, hacker Paradise, to
Nicaragua, because I justthought that sounds super exotic
, super cool and it'd be fun tohave some people with me, cause
it is a little.
I did experience some lonelinesstraveling by myself, although
(13:00):
it was.
There were also benefits to it,of course, too.
I wanted to try a group thing.
I got there before the groupdid, cause I went down to Costa
Rica with a friend of mine andwe were there for a few weeks.
And then we went up toNicaragua with another friend of
his and we were doing someexploration and we did this
thing called Sunday Funday, downin San Juan del Sur, where they
(13:20):
had this just giant party andyou're going from place to place
and playing all these drinkinggames.
I got absolutely blasted doingthat.
But eventually we made our wayup to Nicaragua and then I said
goodbye to my friends and metwith the group and I mean a lot
of things I could get into there.
Of course I didn't know at thetime.
I thought it was a littlestrange when we were entering
(13:42):
the country how the people weresearching us.
My friend had literally hadweed in his bag and they didn't
even care about it, but theywere very, very specific about
that.
We were not allowed to bring ina drone into the country.
I had no idea why we wouldn'tbe allowed to bring in drones.
(14:02):
I figured that out soon enoughwith the uprising that took
place when I was there.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Let's touch on that if you don't mind.
Okay, so first of all, you'regoing with a group called
hackers paradise.
I think you said what's thegroup dynamic Like?
Is it big, small, Like how manypeople were you talking about
for this group?
Let's see.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
If I had to guess, I'd say there were maybe like 15
of us or so.
And things in Nicaragua werereally cheap, so we had really
nice accommodations.
We were living right in Granadais where we were staying, and
we were right in the center oftown in these super nice like
colonial style homes, several ofus living in a home so I think
there were three homes alltogether for the group and we
(14:46):
all had our own rooms and stufflike that and we just like
cohabitated together and we justlike cohabitated together.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And it's a mix, guys, girls, old, young.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'd say it was slanted towards people in their
30s with maybe a couple 20s, andthere was one guy that was in
his 40s at the time, althoughI've been on a later Hacker
Paradise trip where there was acouple in their 60s there.
So this one, yeah, I was mainlylike 30s and I was about 35 at
the time, so they were rightaround my age.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay.
So you're going through therelike, okay, no drone.
You know you can't have a drone, I don't care about the weed
from your friend, but no drone.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
The uprising.
What happened to your groupLike what, yeah.
What happened to your groupLike what, yeah.
I need to hear this All right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So we were hearing of these protests that were going
on.
They were getting crazier andcrazier.
They had changed something withSocial Security or some labor
law.
I don't remember what the lawwas, but it had been changed
unilaterally by the president,you know, who basically is a
(15:51):
dictator.
People were very upset aboutthis thing and they were getting
more and more active and youcould just feel the tension
building up and then theprotests started getting more
and more like violent, you couldsay.
But there was even anotherdynamic where the governor or
the president literally hadhired this group of people to
essentially assault the peoplewho were protesting but to dress
(16:13):
up like, like they were up tono good and basically put a bad
name to all the protesting thatwas going on.
So there were people runningaround that were actually
protesting and then there werepeople running around, like
causing even worse havoc, thatwere basically hired by the
president himself.
People in my group were gettingscared because it was like
where can we go out?
(16:34):
When can we go?
Is it safe?
Especially the women, of course.
But then one of the guys, theguy who was in his forties
actually, he was telling us howhe literally slept with a knife
under his pillow.
He was so terrified.
And the house where I was in wasin the central part of Granada,
and so there were protests thatwere going on in Granada too
Not quite as crazy, I think, asthe capital, which can't
(16:57):
remember the name of Managua,maybe, but in my house it was
kind of an open roof sort ofconcept in a lot of it, and
their protesting was going onmany times right outside of our
house and people were gettinglouder and louder.
Testing was going on really manytimes right outside of our
house and a number and peoplewere getting louder and louder
and there were some rocks thatliterally came over the top and
like landed, you know, in ourlike living area, like someone
(17:21):
would be on hit with a rock.
It could have been like very,very serious.
Yeah, it was unnerving, to saythe least, uh, having all this
stuff going on.
And then when I find out Ifound out later, course, the
drone thing was that the reasonwhy they didn't want drones is
that they were trying as hard asthey could.
The president was to not letinformation out of what was
(17:43):
going on with the uprising andall that, so he could just
squash it.
He didn't want people takingpictures.
There was actually a videofootage of a guy who was filming
and he got shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Wow, and you guys are there for this.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, so we evacuated to Costa Rica, got a plane
there and stayed in ManuelAntonio for the duration of our
month, which we were maybehalfway through the trip.
So we were two weeks in and itwas a month trip.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Wow.
So, needless to say, your tripto Nicaragua was a little more
exciting, probably, than you hadplanned for.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, much more so.
And it was crazy too, becauseit was supposed to be one of the
safest places in all of LatinAmerica.
They even said Nicaragua wastechnically safer than the UK.
There hadn't been any problemsthere in decades and the one
time that I go there they havelike the biggest thing that's
happened, you know, in 30 or 40years or something.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
How did you like the group thing?
Did you enjoy the group dynamic?
I mean, what was your thoughtson that?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I liked the people, although it felt like I like to
keep sort of a wider view onissues and I don't like to take
sides too much with like rightor left and that sort of thing,
and I felt like the group wasvery heavily slanted left to a
point where I didn't find thedynamic totally comfortable all
(19:13):
the time.
But I enjoyed them.
They were good people and wehad a lot of fun.
And what's nice about it iswhen you go with a group like
that, they do some effort to setup some organized experiences
in the area that you might notcome to about by yourself, to
figure out how to do thosethings.
So we get to, you know, seesome interesting restaurants and
(19:33):
went to a volcano and went onsome different trips and it was
yeah, it was.
It was pretty cool the way thatthat is set up.
I like that a lot and also tobe able to live in a place like
we were living.
You have, the more people youcan afford to do something like
that, you know, know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Now it's cool too I kind of want to stay on the
group thing just for a minute,because you said you also you
did a lot of solo traveling andyou said you got a little bit
lonely.
You see that I've had quite afew solo travelers on the on the
show and they all just love itlike they absolutely love it.
I sit there and think, yeah, Iwould get lonely and it sounds
like you did a little bit.
That's why you decided to dothe group thing.
When you compare the two,though, what I mean, what is it
(20:12):
about solo travel that you likeor maybe don't like, kind of
what?
What's your thoughts on betweenthe two of them?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
well, when I'm solo traveling, I find myself in a
lot more of an introspectivekind of a mode where I'm a
little bit less on edge becauseI don't constantly have to keep
socializing and have a concernfor what the group is doing, and
so it does allow me to go alittle bit deeper into my own
(20:41):
space and my own skin.
I like that aspect of it a lot.
And you know, it's like if Iwant to just go wander for a day
, I go wander, I go sit on abench, whatever I want to do.
For the most part I can, I cando.
And there's a group thing it'slike well, we have this event
tonight, you know, and if maybeI'm a little bit tired and I
don't want to necessarily go tothat event, but then there's a
(21:03):
pressure like, well, of courseyou should go to this event, you
know, you know, you, you signedup for this trip, and there are
all these people that are goingto be there, like it's like
there's an expectation there andso it's like an imperfection on
both sides.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Okay, that makes sense.
I appreciate you sharing that.
That makes sense.
All right, we got to jump backto Europe for a minute because
you talked about doing somethingelse.
Okay, you said when you were inEurope this is something that
you you wrote to me and that youmentioned you said you were
there micro dosing mushrooms.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You're going to have to explain what that even means,
cause I have no clue.
It has started when I had comeback to the States from Columbia
, a trip to Columbia I had made.
I went to a wedding and myfriends handed out some magic
mushroom and I took it.
It wasn't the first time I haddone mushroom, but I had this
experience where I realized,when I went back into the group
at the wedding I realized, oh, Ifeel almost no anxiety, like
(21:58):
almost no social anxiety, and Ifelt super calm and comfortable
in my own skin.
I thought, you know, I wouldlike to do an experiment and try
this on a more of a long-termbasis.
And then I did some reading andI read that people do microdose
psychedelics like over periodsof time two months, three months
, whatever and a lot of peopleclaim that it helps them a lot.
(22:20):
So I decided to do it in Europe, in Amsterdam.
You know they sell that stufflegally, so I bought some when I
was there and I started myadventure there, but I had this
crazy thing happen where, evenat the beginning of it.
So, amsterdam, I got themushroom they call it truffle,
but it's the same thing it hasthe psilocybin in it and then I
(22:42):
got some cannabis edibles theretoo, and I took that with the
mushroom.
A lot of people like to combinethe two of them and I had this
experience where I got super,super dizzy and I kind of
freaked out a little bit likesomething was going on with my
body when I realized, I came torealize over the next couple of
(23:03):
days I kept getting these dizzyspells and then they started
getting less and less and Irealized that my entire vision
had changed.
I always had some hand-eyecoordination problems like my
whole life, and I also wouldfind myself when I would go like
walking long distances, that Iwould stumble here and there and
I didn't know why.
Buying the cannabis, it sort ofblasted my vision open and I
(23:34):
started seeing things with muchmore clarity, like the physical
objects.
I was able to see more depth,physical depth to the objects,
and I realized after a whilethat what had happened was that
I had grown up and my eyesdidn't know how to work together
and there's a condition forthat.
I don't know what the name ofit is and when I used the
mushroom, it was teaching me howto actually use a depth
(23:54):
perception.
And so my hand-eye coordinationstarted just improving like
rapidly, and I started havingthese amazing experiences
because it was like seeing theworld for the first time and I
was in Europe, so there were somany beautiful things to see
also, so I would go walking, youknow, and just the cobblestone
streets, everything I looked atI was just enchanted.
(24:15):
Everywhere I went, it was sogreat.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Now, do you really think it's the?
Was it that just the mushroomtalking, or was it the actual
vision you think?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It was the vision, because after I stopped doing
the microdosing, I've never hadany stumbling issues and my
coordination is better than itwas before.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And didn't it something about?
It helped you to save a life,or something in Barcelona, like?
What's the story there?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Somehow, because my reaction time just got so much
faster than it was before and Iwas staying at this hostel in
Barcelona and I met some peoplethere and we went out to dinner
and then we were leaving to gosomewhere and we were a little
bit spread out.
So some people in the group werewalking ahead and they crossed
(25:02):
the street and I was walking andthere was this guy and his
girlfriend that were to my rightand we were about to cross the
street to follow our friendsacross.
I turned my head and I lookedjust before stepping over and I
saw that there were cars thatwere basically right upon us,
but they people next to mecouldn't see them because there
(25:24):
was a something blocking it, andI managed to throw my arm out
and they both just slammed intomy arm like a seatbelt just in
time before the cars came by,and it was all, like you know,
in a fraction of a second it allhappened.
It was like so I never had anexperience quite like that
(25:51):
before.
Yeah, wow, incredible, reallygood that that that happened.
I liked that that's incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Wow, that's awesome.
When did you say that kind of?
When did you first starttraveling?
Was that like 2017?
When was the yeah?
2017, okay, 2018 was when thenicaragua thing happened yep.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And then 2019 was the microdosing journey, and then
2021 was when I went to tulumand uh started doing working
with the shamans and the wholeplant medicine culture there
perfect.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Let's talk about that , because I know I've had a
guest on who who's had someexperience with shamans and I'm
gonna I'm gonna butcher the nameayahuasca I don't know, I'm not
saying it right Ayahuasca,ayahuasca.
Thank you, he had someexperience there.
Okay, yeah, I kind of had theright frame of mind there.
So what led you to Tulum?
I know we're talking Mexico,what kind of?
(26:45):
What made you think, hey, Iwant to go there and check this
out?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It was on my bucket list of places to go.
I had been for a while.
I had kind of a hippie sort ofplace, but cool and like things,
interesting things to do, andit felt like a cool vibe.
And you know, it's weirdbecause they have this like
spiritual community there.
But then it's also likeconsidered to be one of the top
places in the world to go forpartying and so, like a lot of
the top DJs in the worldactually have Tulum on their
(27:09):
circuit and they go do tours andstuff.
So you have a kind of a strangedichotomy there.
But it was peak COVID at thetime and I personally I wanted
to be in an environment wherethere were lax standards for how
you conduct yourself.
I just wanted more freedom ofmovement and I was willing to
have whatever risks came withthat.
Just that's how I wanted to be.
(27:30):
So I chose that for myself,that I knew that that was one
place that people considered tobe a haven for people who wanted
a little fewer restrictions,and so there was that.
And then I had a friend whojust traveled down there and he
was like, come on down and I'mlike, well, I'll have a friend
there, it'll be a better placewhere I am, and so I went.
So I had this experience wheremy friend, you know he hurt his
(27:53):
toe one day and it was I don'tknow what the accent was, but
his toe was severely black andblue, like the toenail had gone,
completely black, you know.
So anyone who saw it was likeyou know, your toenail is going
to fall off Right.
And he was like, of course,yeah, sure.
So a couple of days had gone byand I hadn't seen him.
And I saw him and he's look atmy toe, you know, I look at his
(28:18):
toe, and his toe is normal,completely normal, no
discoloration, the toenail isstill there, nothing wrong with
it whatsoever.
So I'm like what, how did thathappen?
Like what, what is going onhere?
And he's telling me, you know,he went to this energy healing
ceremony called the Light Portaland came out and his toe was
(28:42):
healed.
I don't know, he's like youshould come to the Light Portal.
So I, what do I have to lose?
I'm, you know, interested inhealing and, yeah, I wanted to
check it out.
So it was this like ceremony.
They had once a week wherethere were like a variety of
different facilitators fromdifferent backgrounds and they
(29:02):
combined a bunch of differenthealing modalities, so they were
.
First they led.
There were about 20 of usaround a circle and they led us
through what is calledbiodynamic breath work, where
they have you do these differentmovements with your body while
you're doing like open mouthbreathing, for breath work kind
of puts you in an altered state.
And then they had everyonelaying down on their backs.
(29:24):
Someone was playing drums,someone was chanting, and then
the facilitators were goingaround the room and doing
physical work on people, whatthey were referred to as
blockages.
So I was laying there and thenthis little, uh tiny woman comes
up to me and starts working onmy uh, my body, and she, her.
She's tiny, but it is verypainful for me the work she did.
(29:47):
She was just digging in.
She would just find all theselittle crevices and it would be
like it would hurt so bad and Iwas just trying not to scream
and there were people in therethat were screaming before and
they were crying.
It was like it was reallysomething happened in there.
So she finally finishes and Ijust start laughing.
I can't stop, I'm justuncontrollable Laughter comes up
(30:11):
for me.
And yeah, I didn't have anymiraculous healing experience
there.
But I was like very intriguedby the end and I'm like I want
to explore this more.
So I set up a private sessionwith two of the facilitators
there.
One was the woman that hadworked on me and then her
partner, jose.
So they came to my apartment.
She worked on me for about anhour and a half, just digging in
(30:32):
.
I mean talk about painful thelight portal thing was like you
know, 10 minutes.
I mean talk about painful, thelight portal thing was like you
know, 10 minutes.
This was like an hour and ahalf of that.
And then she was telling me allthis stuff like I and I didn't
really have any spiritualbeliefs about like entities or
guides or angels.
Even you know, she was known asa seer.
So she was saying you know, Isaw these energies on your
(30:54):
father's side and these energiesfrom your mother's side and
these emotions, and I saw thesespirit guides, this Jaguar and
this Native American shaman.
And then the next part of theceremony was meet your guides.
They called it and they servedme.
Jose served me a plant medicinecalled hape, which is a type of
tobacco snuff, but it has somepsychoactive components to it.
(31:17):
You take it through the nose.
So he, they use an objectcalled a tape and you put one
end in each um, one nostril at atime, and the other person
blows it in.
So he served me this hot payand then he gets behind me,
stands behind me and he startsshaking maracas in my ears and
(31:38):
so there's so much noise my mindis not able to digest and
process logically what ishappening in the room.
And then he starts chanting thenext thing I know I'm chanting.
And then I got sick all over theplace.
I was laying on the floor forhours, but when I woke up the
next morning so prior to this,you know, for about two years of
(32:00):
traveling I had developed thisreally bad arthritis in my knees
where anytime I would besitting for more than a few
minutes I'd have to straightenmy legs out just to relieve like
the stiffness that would set in.
It'd be really painful.
So when I woke up the nextmorning after that private
session, all of that pain in myknees was gone, totally gone,
never came back since.
It just sent me on this path toexplore more about plant
(32:22):
medicine and that's kind of ledto sitting in Ayahuasca with
these shamans from the Amazonthat were there in Tulum and I
had so many experiences andTulum and had so many
experiences.
I could talk for hours aboutthem.
But after I had some experienceswith like the big visionary
(32:44):
plants like ayahuasca and stufflike that, I met another teacher
that did what we call plantspirit diets and this is where
you work with a plant over alonger period of time, not with
the intention of having some bigvisionary moment, but rather of
, in an integrative way, to makesome permanent changes, healing
(33:05):
changes.
You know like to let go of somethings maybe you're holding on
to.
I did this diet on a plant thatwas called Marosa, but the diet
that I did did not involve thephysical taking of a plant.
It's hard to explain, but I didthe entire diet through
listening to chants that thismaestro would.
Every two to three weeks we'dmeet online, he'd give me a new
(33:26):
chant and I would listen to thischant every day and then I
would have a ritual that I woulddo for grounding.
I would smoke a mapacho tobaccoand do these things.
About a month into thatexperience I went for a walk and
I was outside and I startedfeeling this warming sensation
like right in my upper chest.
(33:47):
Keep in mind, I didn't takeanything, no drugs, nothing.
It's warming sensation in myupper chest and then it was like
the only thing I could compareit to is like.
The thought that occurred to meat the time was like that.
There were like almost likeflower bud that suddenly blooms
all at once and I felt this deepabiding euphoria just flow
(34:11):
through my whole body and I wasin such a state.
It was like unconditional lovejust flowing through my whole
body.
And I was in such a state.
It was like unconditional lovejust flowing through my whole
body.
I was stumbling around like adrunk, like so swept up in it.
No matter where I fixed my gaze, I would fall in love with
whatever I saw.
So I'd see a tree and I'd startfalling deeply in love with the
tree.
And everywhere I turned, I lookaround me and I would just see,
(34:35):
even in the air.
I would just see this, the mostbeautiful combination of color
in the air that I'd ever seen,and it would constantly shift
and change.
And it was like such a deepexperience for me and you know,
it opened my eyes on thepotentiality for healing and how
plant medicine can be usedwithout even literally
(34:57):
physically taking it, but justthe vibration of it.
And so it led me on a path, anintegrative path, to learn how
to do that.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Wow, I'm just sitting here just listening because I'm
just blown away.
This is so different for me andso it's fascinating.
It really is, and I appreciateyou sharing this, because that's
what I love about doing this,because I get to hear people's
journeys, who they are, theiradventures, and it's stuff I've
never even knew was out.
I mean, you hear of it but youalways think, ah, it's not
(35:27):
anybody I know.
No, I'm talking to Bjorn rightnow.
Bjorn does this, he lives this.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Incredible.
So I've done a couple of dietssince then on some different
plants on my own.
Recently did one this yearactually a plant that they call
uh its translation is the plantof coldness and that that was a
lot of um fun as well, the greattime.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Not no euphoric moment or anything but wonderful
experience let's go back tothis light portal ceremony thing
again and then kind of yourprivate session.
Okay, Light port, Is there somesort of they doing something
with light?
Or why is it called lightportal?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
They call it the light portal because the the
main teacher of the group.
It was the ideas they weresetting an intention to open a
portal of light to essentiallycleanse the heavier, denser
energies of the earth and allowpeople to release, uh, those
(36:28):
energies up into this portal oflight.
And he had brought this withhim from his teachers and
lineage he had been working within thailand and he had a
healing center there before hecame to tulum, and so that's
where the idea came from now.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Then the other part was when you're in your private
session and you were talkingabout spirit guides and this
lady is saying I see some fromyour father's side.
Are they people?
Are they animal like?
What are?
What are they in this world?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
depends on a person's beliefs.
Partly right.
Some, like a christian, mightinterpret spirit guides as the
holy spirit itself.
I had some very um like throughmy time with ayahuasca.
I had some very visualexperiences that were very
specific of, uh, some differentguides that they appeared, a
multitude.
I saw some dragons.
(37:19):
I saw some shamans, some otheranimals as well A jaguar.
I saw birds, all kinds of them,and ideas around them are
partly that like the animalguides tend to be more about
helping you with earthlypursuits and relationships and
(37:42):
deeper, more primal things thatkeep you tethered to the world.
And some guides can be morelike helping you with higher
level type things, connectingmore with your higher self or
God or whatever you want to callit that.
And sometimes people see theirancestors when they're doing
(38:07):
those sorts of experiences andsometimes people believe that
the guides they see are actuallywere ancestors of them and are
appearing in that form.
So there's no way to reallyknow, just experience I guess.
But dragons were a recurringtheme for me.
The guy that I saw the most wasthis blue dragon.
(38:28):
I have one quick story aboutthat.
I met the blue dragon during anayahuasca ceremony and keep in
mind I was in the jungle, beenliving in there for six months
maybe, and so the mosquitoeswere really bad and I get bit a
lot.
I met the blue dragon duringthis ayahuasca ceremony when I
went out by the fire.
So I saw this dragon, cleardetail in front of me.
(38:49):
You could argue whether it wasa real experience or not, but it
was real.
At the time I saw this dragonand I saw it blow this smoke at
me and I didn't really think toomuch of it.
But what happened from thatpoint on is that mosquitoes
almost entirely left me alonefor the next year that I lived
in Tulum Never really botheredme again.
(39:10):
I think maybe I got twomosquito bites in a year and I
was getting them all the timebefore that.
So it's like how do I explainthat I can't?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
You can explain it by the blue dragon.
That's awesome, that's wild.
Wow, that's super interestingBecause of this experience that
you've had over the years, inthe course of years, like
learning this stuff, learningabout plant medicine, things
like that.
What are you doing with it now?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
So I was trained.
Uh, after I came back to thestates, I learned a healing
modality called biofield tuning,which teaches you how to use
tuning forks like say it again,it's called.
It's called what?
Biofield tuning.
So you, use okay, biofieldtuning, yeah, like enter the
biofield, meaning your energeticfield, right?
So it's.
(39:55):
It's basically a way to usesound to help people release
things, um, you know, helppeople through difficult times
and give people a differentoutlet to maybe let go of
something that they've beenholding on to.
And maybe they've tried otherthings and those things didn't
work or maybe they justimmediately resonated with sound
(40:16):
healing.
But most people, when theythink of sound healing, they
think of like someone using likea tibetan bowl and stuff like
that, or playing like adidgeridoo, like one of those
giant I don't know if you everseen one of those, uh, that the
australians have this woman,eileen mccusick, created a
modality called biofield tuningand it uses tuning forks
essentially to work with thebody, because if you consider,
(40:39):
like, what is sound and what islight, they're essentially the
same thing, just differentfrequency.
So sound is something that thebody understands.
When the body here, when youhear sound, the body understands
the sound.
The body can't hear the lightis too high frequency, so it's
beyond the body, right, right,body understands sound.
So we can use differentfrequencies to really help the
(41:02):
body to relax and let go and be,just be.
I was doing that, and then partof my plant medicine journey was
my voice really opened up and Ilearned how to do this certain
type of chanting that theshamans do.
I learned how to.
First I learned the battlefieldtuning and then I learned how
to basically use my voice,essentially like I was using the
(41:24):
tuning forks, but it was.
I was able to be more accurateand take less time and people
had a better experience when Iused my voice.
So I just kept doing it and Ijust used the tuning forks
sparingly.
But yeah, so it's like I do asession.
I do like free events all thetime.
On insight timer, it's ameditation app.
People come in, you know, theysit and they listen for an hour.
Usually.
(41:44):
You know by the end they theirmood is improved, they feel
better than they did before.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
They sat down, you know so if someone wants to get
involved with this and likethere's interest in this, how do
they find you, how do they, howdo they do this?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I have my website wwwbluedragonhealingnet that's
appropriate.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Blue dragon healing dot net.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I love that there's some free stuff on there.
You get some downloads and alink to my insight timer and I
do free events and there's otheropportunities there to book
sessions or whatever they wantwhat's the future hold for you?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That is a really good question.
I think I see myself eventuallygoing back on the road and
doing some traveling and doingsome work in some physical
places and maybe some retreatsand having some deeper
experiences, and maybe torevisit ayahuasca and some other
things that I haven't connectedwith in a long time.
I love doing healing work.
It's amazing for me.
(42:43):
It's like I benefit when I dothe work for others.
I also benefit from it, and soit just.
You know, I mean I had ahypertension pre hypertension
for 15 years and now my bloodpressure the last time they
checked it was like 108 over 62.
I mean, yeah, I mean I, I, inthe last year I think, I've
dropped like 30, 40 pounds.
(43:03):
Just so many things just keepproving in my life, you know, in
so many ways, and I have toattribute so much of it to this
work and what it's enabled me todo.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
So do you feel like if you hadn't have taken that
risk, then to like hey, I'mleaving corporate America and
I'm getting out there.
I mean, what, do you think thatthat risk has it been worth it
for you, like, what's yourthoughts?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yes, I mean there are times I look back.
I was on track, you know, tohave a big career and make a lot
of money, which I still couldin a different way.
I mean I was pretty much setthere if I wanted to be.
I couldn't bear it physically,man, no way, it just wasn't for
me.
And no, I don't regret leavingthat.
(43:50):
Sometimes I think about itthough.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, I'm sure I would think.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I liked some of the people I worked with, and I'm
still friends with one of thepeople that I used to work with
there.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
So for you, kind of the final question I'm going to
wrap up with this is always oneof my favorite questions to ask
is what does adventure mean toyou?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
To allow myself to move with the flow of life and
to make choices that align withthat flow, regardless of whether
they are conventional or not,and I feel like I could have a
(44:31):
sense of adventure without goingon an exotic trip too.
It's just allowing myself tomake different choices and to
accept the flow of life andtrust in it.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Love it, Bjorn.
This has been fascinating forme.
Thank you so much for coming onJourney with Jake.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Thank you so much to my guest, bjorn Lesterud, for
joining me on the show.
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much to my guest,bjorn Lesterud, for joining me
on the show.
I always leave theseconversations feeling so
inspired and Bjorn definitelydelivered today.
If you'd like to learn moreabout his work with Blue Dragon
Healing, visitbluedragonhealingnet or follow
him on Instagram atbluedragonhealing.
And, of course, a big thank youto each of you for tuning in to
(45:15):
Journey with Jake every week.
I'm truly amazed and sograteful, not just for the
incredible guests I've had theprivilege to speak with, but for
all of you who listen inquietly week after week to hear
these amazing stories and find alittle inspiration.
Thank you from the bottom of myheart.
Next week, we've got anotherincredible episode lined up with
Bert Terhart.
Next week, we've got anotherincredible episode lined up with
(45:37):
Bert Terhart.
We'll be setting sail as Bertshares his adventures navigating
the open seas and his journeysailing around the world.
It's an episode you won't wantto miss and remember, it's not
always about the destination asit is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
Thank you.
Have you ever heard of a Light Portal Ceremony?
According toLightPortalCeremonycom, this
transformative practice inducesaltered states of consciousness,
guiding participants throughvisions, sensory explorations,
deep trance states and evenlucid dream-like experiences,
ultimately leading tolife-altering revelations.
(00:21):
My guest today, bjorn Lestrud,has experienced the Light Portal
ceremony firsthand and isdeeply fascinated by holistic
healing methods.
Bjorn is the founder of BlueDragon Healing, where he focuses
on the power of sound tosupport healing and
transformation.
This is going to be quite theadventure, so get ready to dive
into the fascinating world ofhealing and discovery with Bjorn
(00:43):
Lestrud.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
(01:03):
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination as it is about
(01:27):
the journey.
Welcome back to the show.
My name is Jake Bushman and I'mthe host of Journey with Jake.
I'm so glad you're here and Ihope you're as excited as I am
(01:49):
about today's guest.
Bjorn Lestrud brings a wealthof experience, especially in the
fascinating world of healingthrough shamans, sound and light
.
Before we dive into myconversation with Bjorn, I have
a few quick reminders.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to Journey with Jake
wherever you listen to podcastsand if you're enjoying the show,
I'd be so grateful if you couldleave a rating and review.
(02:10):
It really helps others discoverthe podcast.
You can also stay connectedwith me on Instagram at Journey
with Jake podcast Plus.
Journey with Jake is on YouTube.
Just search Journey with Jake,hit, subscribe and give the show
a like while you're there.
I'm thrilled to share thatJourney with Jake is part of the
Podmatch Podcast Network.
If you're looking to discovernew shows, be sure to check out
(02:31):
podmatchcom forward slashnetwork.
Lastly, I'm so honored to be acontributing author in Sacred
Spaces Subtle Shifts for Mind,body and Home Transformation,
volume 3, which releases onFebruary 18th.
My story is featured in Chapter8, and I can't wait for you to
read it.
You can visitColleenAvezCoachingcom forward
(02:52):
slash events to sign up and bethe first to know when it's
available.
All right, let's jump intotoday's episode with Bjorn
Lestrud.
If you enjoy this conversation,you'll also want to check out
Episode 103 with Scott Gurian.
It's another fantastic listen.
All right, let's get to myconversation with Bjorn.
All right, this is awesome.
I get all these crazyadventurous people out there.
(03:13):
I'm not saying you're crazy, Ijust get adventurous people you
do in my mind.
You do crazy things sometimes,so I'm excited to have your
Bjorn Lestrud.
Did I say it right?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You did.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Awesome.
Hey, welcome to Journey withJake.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Thank you, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you here Before we get
cranking into who you are, whatyou're all about, some of your
adventures that you've been on,how about a little background
where you're from, where yougrew up, that sort of thing?
So we kind of get to know whoyou are a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Sure, I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, of all places
, eventually went to collegekind of locally to Minnesota,
and I mean I did a little travelduring college.
First summer I was living inNorway and I went to a couple of
places, but not much.
I was mostly localized.
You know, I struggled a lotwith like social anxiety, I
(04:04):
guess, anger and stuff like that.
And eventually, after Igraduated college I just started
working in corporate America.
I spent most of my career insales and eventually I went
through what you guess you couldrefer to as a spiritual
awakening and I realized I hadto get the heck out of Dodge,
the heck out of Dodge.
And that set me on a course tosome adventures and a healing
(04:29):
process as well.
And now what I do with myoccupation is I do healing work
and we'll get.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, we'll get to that here in a minute.
I kind of want to go back tothose, you know, wisconsin days,
high school, college.
Why do you think you kind ofhad where do you think the
anxiety stemmed from?
Any idea?
Maybe you don't know?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, there were some times in my life where I
was bullied and that didn't help.
I made fun of my name and stufflike that Just kids.
But I guess maybe I took itpersonally, for like all the way
until I was eight or nine Iwent to this really small, tiny
private school.
It was a Christian school.
I just I think part of it wasthat I didn't have that much
(05:09):
exposure to lots of other kidsand I didn't have the best
behavior.
I was considered ADHD, and sothey put me on Ritalin when I
was four until basically age 17,when I refused to take it
anymore.
When I refused to take itanymore, I don't know, part of
it was the Ritalin kind ofdampened my emotional enthusiasm
a bit in a small communitywhere I just felt like I didn't
(05:32):
fit in.
It's interesting because I'mback there right now and I love
it here for the most part.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well, it's interesting too, because yeah,
you say you know the name Bjorn.
I mean, no one has that namehere.
You mentioned that you were inNorway.
I was like, oh, I thought maybethat's where you were going to
say you were from.
You know, it's Norway, becausethat's kind of like a Norwegian
type name.
So, yeah, so is that kind ofthe ancestry it's like, are your
parents?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
My father.
He's 100%.
What was he passed last year?
100% Norwegian, very proud ofhis heritage, like he can tell
you.
Many could have told you manygenerations back, like who did
what?
And probably five generations.
I don't know how many can goback, but my, my sister's name
is Ingrid, so also Scandinavian.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You guys are right on it.
So I find it interesting.
So yeah, I struggling kind ofjust with the anxiety, adhd,
getting bullied a little bit atBjorn people make fun of the
name, whatever you know thattype of thing.
You go on to college and itsounds like you kind of like you
just went on with whateverybody kind of thinks is the
path.
You know, corporate America,let me get a job, let me get
into sales.
Tell me about that experienceand kind of how that yeah played
(06:37):
out for you when I hadgraduated college, I couldn't
find a job.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I was trying so hard to find a job and I couldn't get
one.
Before I eventually found one,I went to the library one day.
I was like you know what Screwit, I'm just going to go find a
book about how to make money andjust figure out how to make
money.
I stumbled on a Rich Dad, PoorDad.
That really ignited me a lot.
I kept reading this recurringmessage in those Rich Dad series
(07:02):
which was like learn sales,because that's a key to
entrepreneurship.
So I figured, if I get intosales, at least that's something
that eventually I could dosomething like that myself
independently.
And that's how I kind of movedin.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I wish Bjorn, I wish I had some sales skills.
Honestly, I wish I did, becauseI feel like people who know how
to sell can really yeah, can doanything, be an entrepreneur.
They can kind of do anythingthey want because they know they
have those skills.
I think that's something I lack.
I think I struggle with it.
So I think that's yeah, I feellike I do, so I think that's
awesome that you at least knowhow to do that.
What was the breaking point?
(07:36):
When did you decide hey, I'mstopping this and I'm going to
start traveling.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh man, so I was.
I had gone through a couple ofpositions and I was working you
could call it sort of highstakes sales.
I was working in retention butfor, like high end customer
accounts for a big financialcompany, ameriprise Financial.
I was doing super well in termsof I was my performance was
through, my performance wasinsanely high, like scary high
(08:06):
good, and I was making a lot ofmoney for my age you know, and I
thought I was doing well.
One day I started getting intopersonal development a little
bit around that time, readingsome bob proctor and some other
things and exploring differentparts of meditation, and I I
came across stuff on Bob Proctorabout paradigms and how, when
(08:28):
you're really small, before youeven really develop the ability
to think for yourself, you start, your brain is just wide open
and you start taking in all theother people's thoughts of how
things are.
And it showed this diagram.
It called the stick persondiagram or stick person concept,
and it's this.
(08:49):
I don't know if you've everseen it before, but it's like
there's this giant circle thatrepresents the mind and align
right across the center of it.
So the top part's consciousmind, the bottom is the
subconscious and then there's alittle tiny little circle on the
bottom, represent the body.
So it's all about the mind.
And so it showed for paradigmsthat when the baby is, you know,
(09:10):
when you're a baby, basicallythat the top part of the circle
is just missing.
So it showed kind of this imageof all these thoughts going
right, flowing right in, withnothing to stop them.
I was sitting at work one dayand I thought to myself you know
, I want to think what is mymost painful memory?
(09:32):
And I wrote it down.
It was one time when I wasbullied and it just stuck with
me, right.
And I thought to myself youknow, what am I most grateful
for in my life?
Right now I can't remember whatI wrote for that.
But then I thought to myselfwould I have this thing that I'm
grateful for if I had notexperienced this other thing?
And I realized that I wouldn't.
I had this out of body type ofexperience where, right that
(09:54):
moment, it was time to leave forthe day.
So I got up and I was walkingout.
I saw this picture in my mindof the infant with the head open
, flip upside down and all thethoughts start dumping out of
the head.
And then, as I saw thosethoughts dumping out of the head
, tears just started streamingdown my face and I got swept up.
(10:17):
I almost felt like I wasfloating.
I walked probably 20 blocks thewrong way from my home because I
lived at walking distancedowntown from my work, but I
didn't even realize whatdirection I was going.
I was so swept up in the graceof it all and so after that,
going back to work the next day,I realized that experience,
(10:38):
really it shed a layer and itmade me more aware of the
discomfort that I had beenexperiencing.
But sort of suppressing anddenying and just being in my
work building, I was startinggetting a stomachache, like
really uncomfortable, likephysical sensations, and I'm
(10:58):
like I do not want to be hereanymore.
I need to get out of here.
So that was the moment.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That is quite the experience.
I mean, that's, that's prettyincredible that you had such a
life changing experience for younow and, granted, it took you
in the wrong direction, leavingwork and everything else.
Did anybody, like anybody atwork, notice this?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
No, no, every one thing I've learned is that
people nobody really is payingmuch attention to anything but
their own thoughts.
I learned this when I did thisexercise one time called 18
degrees of social freedom, andit's like you start doing really
small things.
Like you look, you know, whenyou're walking in a public place
, look a person in the eye forthree seconds, smile at someone,
and then it gets more and morelike crazy.
(11:43):
Like you know, moonwalk around,a group of strangers do that
and I I did pretty much most ofthe things and I and I realized,
wow, like people didn't evennotice me doing this stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
No one even cares.
Isn't that crazy, that'sinteresting, that's wild.
And the fact that you know,when you came back and you had
that stomach ache and you'rejust like this is not, this
isn't it, this isn't, and whatkind of so where did you go from
there, like, how did you likesay, all right, I'm going to go
to Europe?
Or wherever you went, what waskind of the next, the next step
in Bjorn's travels, I guess?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I got into crypto, got lucky, I guess, and made
some money, and so I went on atrip.
It started with let's see wheredid I go first.
I started with a trip to Europe, went to visit Prague, stayed
there for a month.
I went to Thailand for a coupleof months, to Spain to visit a
friend, so by this time we'retalking well four or five months
(12:38):
, and I came back.
And then, around the new year,I signed up for a group trip for
one of those organizedcompanies, hacker Paradise, to
Nicaragua, because I justthought that sounds super exotic
, super cool and it'd be fun tohave some people with me, cause
it is a little.
I did experience some lonelinesstraveling by myself, although
(13:00):
it was.
There were also benefits to it,of course, too.
I wanted to try a group thing.
I got there before the groupdid, cause I went down to Costa
Rica with a friend of mine andwe were there for a few weeks.
And then we went up toNicaragua with another friend of
his and we were doing someexploration and we did this
thing called Sunday Funday, downin San Juan del Sur, where they
(13:20):
had this just giant party andyou're going from place to place
and playing all these drinkinggames.
I got absolutely blasted doingthat.
But eventually we made our wayup to Nicaragua and then I said
goodbye to my friends and metwith the group and I mean a lot
of things I could get into there.
Of course I didn't know at thetime.
I thought it was a littlestrange when we were entering
(13:42):
the country how the people weresearching us.
My friend had literally hadweed in his bag and they didn't
even care about it, but theywere very, very specific about
that.
We were not allowed to bring ina drone into the country.
I had no idea why we wouldn'tbe allowed to bring in drones.
(14:02):
I figured that out soon enoughwith the uprising that took
place when I was there.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Let's touch on that if you don't mind.
Okay, so first of all, you'regoing with a group called
hackers paradise.
I think you said what's thegroup dynamic Like?
Is it big, small, Like how manypeople were you talking about
for this group?
Let's see.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
If I had to guess, I'd say there were maybe like 15
of us or so.
And things in Nicaragua werereally cheap, so we had really
nice accommodations.
We were living right in Granadais where we were staying, and
we were right in the center oftown in these super nice like
colonial style homes, several ofus living in a home so I think
there were three homes alltogether for the group and we
(14:46):
all had our own rooms and stufflike that and we just like
cohabitated together and we justlike cohabitated together.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And it's a mix, guys, girls, old, young.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'd say it was slanted towards people in their
30s with maybe a couple 20s, andthere was one guy that was in
his 40s at the time, althoughI've been on a later Hacker
Paradise trip where there was acouple in their 60s there.
So this one, yeah, I was mainlylike 30s and I was about 35 at
the time, so they were rightaround my age.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay.
So you're going through therelike, okay, no drone.
You know you can't have a drone, I don't care about the weed
from your friend, but no drone.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
The uprising.
What happened to your groupLike what, yeah.
What happened to your groupLike what, yeah.
I need to hear this All right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So we were hearing of these protests that were going
on.
They were getting crazier andcrazier.
They had changed something withSocial Security or some labor
law.
I don't remember what the lawwas, but it had been changed
unilaterally by the president,you know, who basically is a
(15:51):
dictator.
People were very upset aboutthis thing and they were getting
more and more active and youcould just feel the tension
building up and then theprotests started getting more
and more like violent, you couldsay.
But there was even anotherdynamic where the governor or
the president literally hadhired this group of people to
essentially assault the peoplewho were protesting but to dress
(16:13):
up like, like they were up tono good and basically put a bad
name to all the protesting thatwas going on.
So there were people runningaround that were actually
protesting and then there werepeople running around, like
causing even worse havoc, thatwere basically hired by the
president himself.
People in my group were gettingscared because it was like
where can we go out?
(16:34):
When can we go?
Is it safe?
Especially the women, of course.
But then one of the guys, theguy who was in his forties
actually, he was telling us howhe literally slept with a knife
under his pillow.
He was so terrified.
And the house where I was in wasin the central part of Granada,
and so there were protests thatwere going on in Granada too
Not quite as crazy, I think, asthe capital, which can't
(16:57):
remember the name of Managua,maybe, but in my house it was
kind of an open roof sort ofconcept in a lot of it, and
their protesting was going onmany times right outside of our
house and people were gettinglouder and louder.
Testing was going on really manytimes right outside of our
house and a number and peoplewere getting louder and louder
and there were some rocks thatliterally came over the top and
like landed, you know, in ourlike living area, like someone
(17:21):
would be on hit with a rock.
It could have been like very,very serious.
Yeah, it was unnerving, to saythe least, uh, having all this
stuff going on.
And then when I find out Ifound out later, course, the
drone thing was that the reasonwhy they didn't want drones is
that they were trying as hard asthey could.
The president was to not letinformation out of what was
(17:43):
going on with the uprising andall that, so he could just
squash it.
He didn't want people takingpictures.
There was actually a videofootage of a guy who was filming
and he got shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Wow, and you guys are there for this.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, so we evacuated to Costa Rica, got a plane
there and stayed in ManuelAntonio for the duration of our
month, which we were maybehalfway through the trip.
So we were two weeks in and itwas a month trip.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Wow.
So, needless to say, your tripto Nicaragua was a little more
exciting, probably, than you hadplanned for.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, much more so.
And it was crazy too, becauseit was supposed to be one of the
safest places in all of LatinAmerica.
They even said Nicaragua wastechnically safer than the UK.
There hadn't been any problemsthere in decades and the one
time that I go there they havelike the biggest thing that's
happened, you know, in 30 or 40years or something.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
How did you like the group thing?
Did you enjoy the group dynamic?
I mean, what was your thoughtson that?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I liked the people, although it felt like I like to
keep sort of a wider view onissues and I don't like to take
sides too much with like rightor left and that sort of thing,
and I felt like the group wasvery heavily slanted left to a
point where I didn't find thedynamic totally comfortable all
(19:13):
the time.
But I enjoyed them.
They were good people and wehad a lot of fun.
And what's nice about it iswhen you go with a group like
that, they do some effort to setup some organized experiences
in the area that you might notcome to about by yourself, to
figure out how to do thosethings.
So we get to, you know, seesome interesting restaurants and
(19:33):
went to a volcano and went onsome different trips and it was
yeah, it was.
It was pretty cool the way thatthat is set up.
I like that a lot and also tobe able to live in a place like
we were living.
You have, the more people youcan afford to do something like
that, you know, know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Now it's cool too I kind of want to stay on the
group thing just for a minute,because you said you also you
did a lot of solo traveling andyou said you got a little bit
lonely.
You see that I've had quite afew solo travelers on the on the
show and they all just love itlike they absolutely love it.
I sit there and think, yeah, Iwould get lonely and it sounds
like you did a little bit.
That's why you decided to dothe group thing.
When you compare the two,though, what I mean, what is it
(20:12):
about solo travel that you likeor maybe don't like, kind of
what?
What's your thoughts on betweenthe two of them?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
well, when I'm solo traveling, I find myself in a
lot more of an introspectivekind of a mode where I'm a
little bit less on edge becauseI don't constantly have to keep
socializing and have a concernfor what the group is doing, and
so it does allow me to go alittle bit deeper into my own
(20:41):
space and my own skin.
I like that aspect of it a lot.
And you know, it's like if Iwant to just go wander for a day
, I go wander, I go sit on abench, whatever I want to do.
For the most part I can, I cando.
And there's a group thing it'slike well, we have this event
tonight, you know, and if maybeI'm a little bit tired and I
don't want to necessarily go tothat event, but then there's a
(21:03):
pressure like, well, of courseyou should go to this event, you
know, you know, you, you signedup for this trip, and there are
all these people that are goingto be there, like it's like
there's an expectation there andso it's like an imperfection on
both sides.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Okay, that makes sense.
I appreciate you sharing that.
That makes sense.
All right, we got to jump backto Europe for a minute because
you talked about doing somethingelse.
Okay, you said when you were inEurope this is something that
you you wrote to me and that youmentioned you said you were
there micro dosing mushrooms.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You're going to have to explain what that even means,
cause I have no clue.
It has started when I had comeback to the States from Columbia
, a trip to Columbia I had made.
I went to a wedding and myfriends handed out some magic
mushroom and I took it.
It wasn't the first time I haddone mushroom, but I had this
experience where I realized,when I went back into the group
at the wedding I realized, oh, Ifeel almost no anxiety, like
(21:58):
almost no social anxiety, and Ifelt super calm and comfortable
in my own skin.
I thought, you know, I wouldlike to do an experiment and try
this on a more of a long-termbasis.
And then I did some reading andI read that people do microdose
psychedelics like over periodsof time two months, three months
, whatever and a lot of peopleclaim that it helps them a lot.
(22:20):
So I decided to do it in Europe, in Amsterdam.
You know they sell that stufflegally, so I bought some when I
was there and I started myadventure there, but I had this
crazy thing happen where, evenat the beginning of it.
So, amsterdam, I got themushroom they call it truffle,
but it's the same thing it hasthe psilocybin in it and then I
(22:42):
got some cannabis edibles theretoo, and I took that with the
mushroom.
A lot of people like to combinethe two of them and I had this
experience where I got super,super dizzy and I kind of
freaked out a little bit likesomething was going on with my
body when I realized, I came torealize over the next couple of
(23:03):
days I kept getting these dizzyspells and then they started
getting less and less and Irealized that my entire vision
had changed.
I always had some hand-eyecoordination problems like my
whole life, and I also wouldfind myself when I would go like
walking long distances, that Iwould stumble here and there and
I didn't know why.
Buying the cannabis, it sort ofblasted my vision open and I
(23:34):
started seeing things with muchmore clarity, like the physical
objects.
I was able to see more depth,physical depth to the objects,
and I realized after a whilethat what had happened was that
I had grown up and my eyesdidn't know how to work together
and there's a condition forthat.
I don't know what the name ofit is and when I used the
mushroom, it was teaching me howto actually use a depth
(23:54):
perception.
And so my hand-eye coordinationstarted just improving like
rapidly, and I started havingthese amazing experiences
because it was like seeing theworld for the first time and I
was in Europe, so there were somany beautiful things to see
also, so I would go walking, youknow, and just the cobblestone
streets, everything I looked atI was just enchanted.
(24:15):
Everywhere I went, it was sogreat.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Now, do you really think it's the?
Was it that just the mushroomtalking, or was it the actual
vision you think?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It was the vision, because after I stopped doing
the microdosing, I've never hadany stumbling issues and my
coordination is better than itwas before.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And didn't it something about?
It helped you to save a life,or something in Barcelona, like?
What's the story there?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Somehow, because my reaction time just got so much
faster than it was before and Iwas staying at this hostel in
Barcelona and I met some peoplethere and we went out to dinner
and then we were leaving to gosomewhere and we were a little
bit spread out.
So some people in the group werewalking ahead and they crossed
(25:02):
the street and I was walking andthere was this guy and his
girlfriend that were to my rightand we were about to cross the
street to follow our friendsacross.
I turned my head and I lookedjust before stepping over and I
saw that there were cars thatwere basically right upon us,
but they people next to mecouldn't see them because there
(25:24):
was a something blocking it, andI managed to throw my arm out
and they both just slammed intomy arm like a seatbelt just in
time before the cars came by,and it was all, like you know,
in a fraction of a second it allhappened.
It was like so I never had anexperience quite like that
(25:51):
before.
Yeah, wow, incredible, reallygood that that that happened.
I liked that that's incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Wow, that's awesome.
When did you say that kind of?
When did you first starttraveling?
Was that like 2017?
When was the yeah?
2017, okay, 2018 was when thenicaragua thing happened yep.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And then 2019 was the microdosing journey, and then
2021 was when I went to tulumand uh started doing working
with the shamans and the wholeplant medicine culture there
perfect.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Let's talk about that , because I know I've had a
guest on who who's had someexperience with shamans and I'm
gonna I'm gonna butcher the nameayahuasca I don't know, I'm not
saying it right Ayahuasca,ayahuasca.
Thank you, he had someexperience there.
Okay, yeah, I kind of had theright frame of mind there.
So what led you to Tulum?
I know we're talking Mexico,what kind of?
(26:45):
What made you think, hey, Iwant to go there and check this
out?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It was on my bucket list of places to go.
I had been for a while.
I had kind of a hippie sort ofplace, but cool and like things,
interesting things to do, andit felt like a cool vibe.
And you know, it's weirdbecause they have this like
spiritual community there.
But then it's also likeconsidered to be one of the top
places in the world to go forpartying and so, like a lot of
the top DJs in the worldactually have Tulum on their
(27:09):
circuit and they go do tours andstuff.
So you have a kind of a strangedichotomy there.
But it was peak COVID at thetime and I personally I wanted
to be in an environment wherethere were lax standards for how
you conduct yourself.
I just wanted more freedom ofmovement and I was willing to
have whatever risks came withthat.
Just that's how I wanted to be.
(27:30):
So I chose that for myself,that I knew that that was one
place that people considered tobe a haven for people who wanted
a little fewer restrictions,and so there was that.
And then I had a friend whojust traveled down there and he
was like, come on down and I'mlike, well, I'll have a friend
there, it'll be a better placewhere I am, and so I went.
So I had this experience wheremy friend, you know he hurt his
(27:53):
toe one day and it was I don'tknow what the accent was, but
his toe was severely black andblue, like the toenail had gone,
completely black, you know.
So anyone who saw it was likeyou know, your toenail is going
to fall off Right.
And he was like, of course,yeah, sure.
So a couple of days had gone byand I hadn't seen him.
And I saw him and he's look atmy toe, you know, I look at his
(28:18):
toe, and his toe is normal,completely normal, no
discoloration, the toenail isstill there, nothing wrong with
it whatsoever.
So I'm like what, how did thathappen?
Like what, what is going onhere?
And he's telling me, you know,he went to this energy healing
ceremony called the Light Portaland came out and his toe was
(28:42):
healed.
I don't know, he's like youshould come to the Light Portal.
So I, what do I have to lose?
I'm, you know, interested inhealing and, yeah, I wanted to
check it out.
So it was this like ceremony.
They had once a week wherethere were like a variety of
different facilitators fromdifferent backgrounds and they
(29:02):
combined a bunch of differenthealing modalities, so they were
.
First they led.
There were about 20 of usaround a circle and they led us
through what is calledbiodynamic breath work, where
they have you do these differentmovements with your body while
you're doing like open mouthbreathing, for breath work kind
of puts you in an altered state.
And then they had everyonelaying down on their backs.
(29:24):
Someone was playing drums,someone was chanting, and then
the facilitators were goingaround the room and doing
physical work on people, whatthey were referred to as
blockages.
So I was laying there and thenthis little, uh tiny woman comes
up to me and starts working onmy uh, my body, and she, her.
She's tiny, but it is verypainful for me the work she did.
(29:47):
She was just digging in.
She would just find all theselittle crevices and it would be
like it would hurt so bad and Iwas just trying not to scream
and there were people in therethat were screaming before and
they were crying.
It was like it was reallysomething happened in there.
So she finally finishes and Ijust start laughing.
I can't stop, I'm justuncontrollable Laughter comes up
(30:11):
for me.
And yeah, I didn't have anymiraculous healing experience
there.
But I was like very intriguedby the end and I'm like I want
to explore this more.
So I set up a private sessionwith two of the facilitators
there.
One was the woman that hadworked on me and then her
partner, jose.
So they came to my apartment.
She worked on me for about anhour and a half, just digging in
(30:32):
.
I mean talk about painful thelight portal thing was like you
know, 10 minutes.
I mean talk about painful, thelight portal thing was like you
know, 10 minutes.
This was like an hour and ahalf of that.
And then she was telling me allthis stuff like I and I didn't
really have any spiritualbeliefs about like entities or
guides or angels.
Even you know, she was known asa seer.
So she was saying you know, Isaw these energies on your
(30:54):
father's side and these energiesfrom your mother's side and
these emotions, and I saw thesespirit guides, this Jaguar and
this Native American shaman.
And then the next part of theceremony was meet your guides.
They called it and they servedme.
Jose served me a plant medicinecalled hape, which is a type of
tobacco snuff, but it has somepsychoactive components to it.
(31:17):
You take it through the nose.
So he, they use an objectcalled a tape and you put one
end in each um, one nostril at atime, and the other person
blows it in.
So he served me this hot payand then he gets behind me,
stands behind me and he startsshaking maracas in my ears and
(31:38):
so there's so much noise my mindis not able to digest and
process logically what ishappening in the room.
And then he starts chanting thenext thing I know I'm chanting.
And then I got sick all over theplace.
I was laying on the floor forhours, but when I woke up the
next morning so prior to this,you know, for about two years of
(32:00):
traveling I had developed thisreally bad arthritis in my knees
where anytime I would besitting for more than a few
minutes I'd have to straightenmy legs out just to relieve like
the stiffness that would set in.
It'd be really painful.
So when I woke up the nextmorning after that private
session, all of that pain in myknees was gone, totally gone,
never came back since.
It just sent me on this path toexplore more about plant
(32:22):
medicine and that's kind of ledto sitting in Ayahuasca with
these shamans from the Amazonthat were there in Tulum and I
had so many experiences andTulum and had so many
experiences.
I could talk for hours aboutthem.
But after I had some experienceswith like the big visionary
(32:44):
plants like ayahuasca and stufflike that, I met another teacher
that did what we call plantspirit diets and this is where
you work with a plant over alonger period of time, not with
the intention of having some bigvisionary moment, but rather of
, in an integrative way, to makesome permanent changes, healing
(33:05):
changes.
You know like to let go of somethings maybe you're holding on
to.
I did this diet on a plant thatwas called Marosa, but the diet
that I did did not involve thephysical taking of a plant.
It's hard to explain, but I didthe entire diet through
listening to chants that thismaestro would.
Every two to three weeks we'dmeet online, he'd give me a new
(33:26):
chant and I would listen to thischant every day and then I
would have a ritual that I woulddo for grounding.
I would smoke a mapacho tobaccoand do these things.
About a month into thatexperience I went for a walk and
I was outside and I startedfeeling this warming sensation
like right in my upper chest.
(33:47):
Keep in mind, I didn't takeanything, no drugs, nothing.
It's warming sensation in myupper chest and then it was like
the only thing I could compareit to is like.
The thought that occurred to meat the time was like that.
There were like almost likeflower bud that suddenly blooms
all at once and I felt this deepabiding euphoria just flow
(34:11):
through my whole body and I wasin such a state.
It was like unconditional lovejust flowing through my whole
body.
And I was in such a state.
It was like unconditional lovejust flowing through my whole
body.
I was stumbling around like adrunk, like so swept up in it.
No matter where I fixed my gaze, I would fall in love with
whatever I saw.
So I'd see a tree and I'd startfalling deeply in love with the
tree.
And everywhere I turned, I lookaround me and I would just see,
(34:35):
even in the air.
I would just see this, the mostbeautiful combination of color
in the air that I'd ever seen,and it would constantly shift
and change.
And it was like such a deepexperience for me and you know,
it opened my eyes on thepotentiality for healing and how
plant medicine can be usedwithout even literally
(34:57):
physically taking it, but justthe vibration of it.
And so it led me on a path, anintegrative path, to learn how
to do that.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Wow, I'm just sitting here just listening because I'm
just blown away.
This is so different for me andso it's fascinating.
It really is, and I appreciateyou sharing this, because that's
what I love about doing this,because I get to hear people's
journeys, who they are, theiradventures, and it's stuff I've
never even knew was out.
I mean, you hear of it but youalways think, ah, it's not
(35:27):
anybody I know.
No, I'm talking to Bjorn rightnow.
Bjorn does this, he lives this.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Incredible.
So I've done a couple of dietssince then on some different
plants on my own.
Recently did one this yearactually a plant that they call
uh its translation is the plantof coldness and that that was a
lot of um fun as well, the greattime.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Not no euphoric moment or anything but wonderful
experience let's go back tothis light portal ceremony thing
again and then kind of yourprivate session.
Okay, Light port, Is there somesort of they doing something
with light?
Or why is it called lightportal?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
They call it the light portal because the the
main teacher of the group.
It was the ideas they weresetting an intention to open a
portal of light to essentiallycleanse the heavier, denser
energies of the earth and allowpeople to release, uh, those
(36:28):
energies up into this portal oflight.
And he had brought this withhim from his teachers and
lineage he had been working within thailand and he had a
healing center there before hecame to tulum, and so that's
where the idea came from now.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Then the other part was when you're in your private
session and you were talkingabout spirit guides and this
lady is saying I see some fromyour father's side.
Are they people?
Are they animal like?
What are?
What are they in this world?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
depends on a person's beliefs.
Partly right.
Some, like a christian, mightinterpret spirit guides as the
holy spirit itself.
I had some very um like throughmy time with ayahuasca.
I had some very visualexperiences that were very
specific of, uh, some differentguides that they appeared, a
multitude.
I saw some dragons.
(37:19):
I saw some shamans, some otheranimals as well A jaguar.
I saw birds, all kinds of them,and ideas around them are
partly that like the animalguides tend to be more about
helping you with earthlypursuits and relationships and
(37:42):
deeper, more primal things thatkeep you tethered to the world.
And some guides can be morelike helping you with higher
level type things, connectingmore with your higher self or
God or whatever you want to callit that.
And sometimes people see theirancestors when they're doing
(38:07):
those sorts of experiences andsometimes people believe that
the guides they see are actuallywere ancestors of them and are
appearing in that form.
So there's no way to reallyknow, just experience I guess.
But dragons were a recurringtheme for me.
The guy that I saw the most wasthis blue dragon.
(38:28):
I have one quick story aboutthat.
I met the blue dragon during anayahuasca ceremony and keep in
mind I was in the jungle, beenliving in there for six months
maybe, and so the mosquitoeswere really bad and I get bit a
lot.
I met the blue dragon duringthis ayahuasca ceremony when I
went out by the fire.
So I saw this dragon, cleardetail in front of me.
(38:49):
You could argue whether it wasa real experience or not, but it
was real.
At the time I saw this dragonand I saw it blow this smoke at
me and I didn't really think toomuch of it.
But what happened from thatpoint on is that mosquitoes
almost entirely left me alonefor the next year that I lived
in Tulum Never really botheredme again.
(39:10):
I think maybe I got twomosquito bites in a year and I
was getting them all the timebefore that.
So it's like how do I explainthat I can't?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
You can explain it by the blue dragon.
That's awesome, that's wild.
Wow, that's super interestingBecause of this experience that
you've had over the years, inthe course of years, like
learning this stuff, learningabout plant medicine, things
like that.
What are you doing with it now?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
So I was trained.
Uh, after I came back to thestates, I learned a healing
modality called biofield tuning,which teaches you how to use
tuning forks like say it again,it's called.
It's called what?
Biofield tuning.
So you, use okay, biofieldtuning, yeah, like enter the
biofield, meaning your energeticfield, right?
So it's.
(39:55):
It's basically a way to usesound to help people release
things, um, you know, helppeople through difficult times
and give people a differentoutlet to maybe let go of
something that they've beenholding on to.
And maybe they've tried otherthings and those things didn't
work or maybe they justimmediately resonated with sound
(40:16):
healing.
But most people, when theythink of sound healing, they
think of like someone using likea tibetan bowl and stuff like
that, or playing like adidgeridoo, like one of those
giant I don't know if you everseen one of those, uh, that the
australians have this woman,eileen mccusick, created a
modality called biofield tuningand it uses tuning forks
essentially to work with thebody, because if you consider,
(40:39):
like, what is sound and what islight, they're essentially the
same thing, just differentfrequency.
So sound is something that thebody understands.
When the body here, when youhear sound, the body understands
the sound.
The body can't hear the lightis too high frequency, so it's
beyond the body, right, right,body understands sound.
So we can use differentfrequencies to really help the
(41:02):
body to relax and let go and be,just be.
I was doing that, and then partof my plant medicine journey was
my voice really opened up and Ilearned how to do this certain
type of chanting that theshamans do.
I learned how to.
First I learned the battlefieldtuning and then I learned how
to basically use my voice,essentially like I was using the
(41:24):
tuning forks, but it was.
I was able to be more accurateand take less time and people
had a better experience when Iused my voice.
So I just kept doing it and Ijust used the tuning forks
sparingly.
But yeah, so it's like I do asession.
I do like free events all thetime.
On insight timer, it's ameditation app.
People come in, you know, theysit and they listen for an hour.
Usually.
(41:44):
You know by the end they theirmood is improved, they feel
better than they did before.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
They sat down, you know so if someone wants to get
involved with this and likethere's interest in this, how do
they find you, how do they, howdo they do this?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I have my website wwwbluedragonhealingnet that's
appropriate.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Blue dragon healing dot net.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I love that there's some free stuff on there.
You get some downloads and alink to my insight timer and I
do free events and there's otheropportunities there to book
sessions or whatever they wantwhat's the future hold for you?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That is a really good question.
I think I see myself eventuallygoing back on the road and
doing some traveling and doingsome work in some physical
places and maybe some retreatsand having some deeper
experiences, and maybe torevisit ayahuasca and some other
things that I haven't connectedwith in a long time.
I love doing healing work.
It's amazing for me.
(42:43):
It's like I benefit when I dothe work for others.
I also benefit from it, and soit just.
You know, I mean I had ahypertension pre hypertension
for 15 years and now my bloodpressure the last time they
checked it was like 108 over 62.
I mean, yeah, I mean I, I, inthe last year I think, I've
dropped like 30, 40 pounds.
(43:03):
Just so many things just keepproving in my life, you know, in
so many ways, and I have toattribute so much of it to this
work and what it's enabled me todo.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
So do you feel like if you hadn't have taken that
risk, then to like hey, I'mleaving corporate America and
I'm getting out there.
I mean, what, do you think thatthat risk has it been worth it
for you, like, what's yourthoughts?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yes, I mean there are times I look back.
I was on track, you know, tohave a big career and make a lot
of money, which I still couldin a different way.
I mean I was pretty much setthere if I wanted to be.
I couldn't bear it physically,man, no way, it just wasn't for
me.
And no, I don't regret leavingthat.
(43:50):
Sometimes I think about itthough.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, I'm sure I would think.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I liked some of the people I worked with, and I'm
still friends with one of thepeople that I used to work with
there.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
So for you, kind of the final question I'm going to
wrap up with this is always oneof my favorite questions to ask
is what does adventure mean toyou?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
To allow myself to move with the flow of life and
to make choices that align withthat flow, regardless of whether
they are conventional or not,and I feel like I could have a
(44:31):
sense of adventure without goingon an exotic trip too.
It's just allowing myself tomake different choices and to
accept the flow of life andtrust in it.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Love it, Bjorn.
This has been fascinating forme.
Thank you so much for coming onJourney with Jake.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Thank you so much to my guest, bjorn Lesterud, for
joining me on the show.
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much to my guest,bjorn Lesterud, for joining me
on the show.
I always leave theseconversations feeling so
inspired and Bjorn definitelydelivered today.
If you'd like to learn moreabout his work with Blue Dragon
Healing, visitbluedragonhealingnet or follow
him on Instagram atbluedragonhealing.
And, of course, a big thank youto each of you for tuning in to
(45:15):
Journey with Jake every week.
I'm truly amazed and sograteful, not just for the
incredible guests I've had theprivilege to speak with, but for
all of you who listen inquietly week after week to hear
these amazing stories and find alittle inspiration.
Thank you from the bottom of myheart.
Next week, we've got anotherincredible episode lined up with
Bert Terhart.
Next week, we've got anotherincredible episode lined up with
(45:37):
Bert Terhart.
We'll be setting sail as Bertshares his adventures navigating
the open seas and his journeysailing around the world.
It's an episode you won't wantto miss and remember, it's not
always about the destination asit is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
Thank you.
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