July 31, 2025 • 56 mins
Have you ever wondered what Africa was like before satellite phones, GPS navigation, and carefully curated safari experiences? Barry Maughan's remarkable journey from Alexandria to South Africa during the tumultuous late 1960s offers a window into a continent few modern travelers will ever experience.
Barry's adventure began with a chance encounter that would set the tone for his entire expedition. After meeting an Egyptian general, what could have been a casual exchange blossomed into extraordinary access to Cairo during the War of Attrition. This serendipitous connection – having his VW camper transported by train while being guarded by armed soldiers – illustrates the unexpected kindness that defined his journey through Africa.
What makes this story truly exceptional is the historical context. Barry traveled through countries experiencing the early days of independence, navigated borders during the rise of dictators like Idi Amin and Muammar Gaddafi, and witnessed a continent in transition. Without electronic tethers – no phones, no GPS, not even reliable maps – Barry and his family relied on ingenuity, observation, and the goodwill of strangers. When their son Kevin was born in Ethiopia, this blue-eyed, towheaded child became what Barry calls their "goodwill ambassador," opening doors to experiences and connections that might otherwise have remained closed.
Throughout our conversation, Barry returns to a fundamental truth discovered on dusty roads and in remote villages: behind cultural differences and diverse circumstances, people share universal desires – safety for their families, enough food on the table, and minimal government interference in their lives. The Africans they met consistently offered help without expectation of payment, whether pushing their vehicle from mud, guiding them across rivers, or simply sharing what little food they had.
Barry's book "Beneath the African Sun" captures these experiences not for commercial success but to preserve a legacy of adventure and human connection for future generations. At 84, his definition of adventure remains powerful: "searching for the heretofore unknown" and "not being afraid of what's around the next bend." His journey reminds us that the most meaningful adventures aren't about conquering places but connecting with them – a lesson as relevant today as it was fifty years ago.
Check out Barry's website www.barrymaughan.com to learn more about Barry and get a copy of his book, "Beneath the African Sun."
Want to be a guest on Journey with Jake? Send me a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/journeywithjake
Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind. Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.
Visit geneticinsights.co and use the code "DISCOVER25" to enjoy a sweet 25% off your first purchase.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if you could travel back in time and
experience Africa as it was over50 years ago?
That's exactly what BarryMaughan did, driving from
Alexandria, egypt, to thesouthern tip of South Africa,
long before GPS and guidebooksruled the road.
In this episode, barry sharesstories from his remarkable
journey, captured in his bookBeneath the African Sun.
(00:21):
Buckle up for an adventurethrough history, humanity and
the raw heart of a continent.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will feature adifferent guest or guests, as
(00:42):
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you also hear
the failures and trials eachguest faces and what they have
done or are doing to overcomethe hardships that come their
way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
(01:05):
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination, as it is about
the journey.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
(01:26):
I'm your host, jake Bushman,and I'm so glad you're here.
Each week, I get the chance tosit down with some incredible
people who share their uniquestories of adventure, resilience
and the past that shaped them.
Before we dive into BarryMaughan's unforgettable journey
through Africa, just a quick bitof housekeeping.
Be sure to follow me onInstagram at Journey with Jake
podcast for behind the scenescontent and episode updates.
(01:48):
Journey with Jake is also partof the Podmatch podcast network,
helping connect voices andstories that inspire, and if you
haven't already check out theJourney with Jake YouTube
channel, it's a great way towatch the full recording of
today's conversation.
If you prefer video over audio.
Today's episode takes us backover 50 years as Barry recounts
his drive from Alexandria, egypt, to the southern tip of Africa,
(02:12):
an adventure capturedbeautifully in his book Beneath
the African Sun.
If you enjoy this episode, makesure to check out episode 108
with Chris Donaldson, who rodehis motorcycle around the world
in the 1970s.
Two different paths, sameadventurous spirit.
Let's get to my conversationwith Barry.
All right, I'm excited todayI've got Barry.
(02:33):
Is it Mon?
How do you say your last name,barry?
I want to make sure I get thisright Mon yes.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Call me anything except late for supper, as my
mom used to say.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Right on Barry Mon.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, thank you, jake .
Thanks for having me onPleasure.
I've listened to some of yourpodcasts and it's an honor to be
on with you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I appreciate that Africa.
We're going to really dive intoAfrica.
I think your heart's in Africa.
You've spent a lot of time inAfrica.
We're going to dive into Africa.
Before we do that, before weget to your adventure and what
you got going on there, tell mea little bit about Barry.
Just some backgroundinformation.
Where are you from, where yougrew up?
A little bit about your family,that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, I grew up in Australia the outback of
Australia was born just ninedays after Pearl Harbor, so I'm
long in the tooth Came to Canadaat the age of 10, and then,
through a marriage ofconvenience, my mom got me over
to Portsmouth, new Hampshire,where I grew up and got a
(03:37):
bachelor's in journalismadvertising from Boston
University in 65.
Advertising from BostonUniversity in 65, and then in 67
, got a master's in journalismmanagement from Oklahoma State.
Then bounced around which Iwould recommend for any aspiring
radio broadcaster at a lot ofdawn to dusk radio stations
(04:00):
where you learned it all.
You learn to rip and read news,go network, do remotes, do all
the checks out at the station,do a little bit of DJ work and
just you learn the trade.
And that's where I wouldrecommend anyone who wants to
aspire to a career inbroadcasting should start and
(04:23):
started that way and thenstarted traveling, ended up in
Ethiopia, saw a radio stationthere.
Driving in, radio Voice of theGospel, said I can do that and
the guy hired me.
Six years later moved on toRadio Australia, then New
Zealand Broadcasting and thelast 25 years was with the Voice
(04:47):
of America in Washington whereI was in the English to Africa
service, and I was proud to bethe chief of that service for
the last five years of my career.
So here I am.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Wow, a long career in broadcasting radio.
Amazing, here you are.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Jake, they always said I had the perfect face for
radio.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's what I was saying about podcasting, and now
I put stuff out on YouTube, soI'm like I don't know if you
know, I don't know if it worksfor it, but hey, at least we got
this thing going, which is fun,so I enjoy this part of it.
I've always enjoyed thisbecause I enjoy hearing people's
stories and who they are, andI'm excited to hear your story.
We're going to talk a lot aboutthis trip you took along the
length of Africa, the Africancontinent, in a VW, like bus,
(05:35):
little mini bus.
What first sparked your desireto travel to Africa?
And, before we get into that,what was your family situation
Like?
Were you married at the time?
You know what kind of you haveany kids kind of?
What's the situation?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
there.
Yes, my wife and I were married, didn't have any children.
We're in a kind of dead endjobs and working in New York
city.
I was with Benton and Bowlesadvertising parking such things
as a Crest toothpaste andhoneycomb cereals and the rest
of it.
She was in another position inthe city and we really didn't
(06:08):
feel like we were going anywhereand just wanted to change.
And we started saying, well,why don't we just travel a
little bit?
So we saved our money, took aboat over to Antwerp, germany,
and before that we had purchaseda Volkswagen camper bus and
arrived there with the sevenduffel bags and stuffed
(06:29):
everything into the camper busand off we went to Switzerland
you know the usual tour ofEurope then up to Norway, and I
had some great adventures inNorway and then it started
getting cold and we said it'stime to head south, young man.
So we decided maybe Portugal orSpain, and then, as we learned
(06:54):
more about the crowdedconditions there, we said eh.
Then someone whispered in ourear hey, go to Morocco.
Never taking the easy way, youknow, across the Straits of
Gibraltar down to Morocco, let'stake a boat trip around the
littoral of the Mediterranean.
We ended up in Alexandria andsaid well, let's just drive
(07:17):
across North Africa to Morocco.
Well, we were just one day awayfrom heading west to Libya and
then a fellow named MohamedGaddafi decided to stage a coup
and close the borders, and wedidn't know for how long.
(07:37):
It was a journey of serendipity, so many serendipities.
Then we said, well, should wejust turn tail and go back to
Europe?
That was kind of like a fetusattitude.
I had met this chap on the boatwith nothing better to do, just
that.
I'll talk to a post if it'llstand still.
Turned out that he was ageneral Egyptian general.
(07:59):
Well, in the Middle Eastgenerals are a dime a dozen, but
anyway, we got to chatting.
His name was Ibrahimam HimelTahawi and we got to chatting
and I hit it off.
So he gave me his card and Ifigured that that's a nice way
from just to say you know whenin Cairo, look me up, yeah,
right.
Anyway, the next day, one ofhis he was always surrounded
(08:23):
with kind of shadowy lookingmilitary types and one of them
sidled up to me and said oh,general El-Tahawi would like the
pleasure of your company againover dinner.
I said, okay, good enough.
Anyway.
So we landed in Alexandria.
I heard the news about Gaddafiand said well, we might as well
(08:45):
just head south to Cairo, seethe pyramids and whatever, maybe
turn around and go back.
Well, it was in the middle ofthe War of Attrition, one of
many wars that the Egyptians andtheir allies were fighting
against Israel, so it was afractious time.
But I arrived in Cairo,couldn't find a place to park
(09:07):
the camper.
So I said well, here's this guywho says he's the president of
the Young Men's MuslimAssociation.
Okay, akin to the Young Men'sChristian Association over here.
Wrong, but anyway, I didn'tknow any better.
So I said we need, we'redesperate, we needed a place to
put the camper.
(09:27):
My wife said well, while I'mstaying with friends, why don't
you go on over and see if youcan talk to General El-Tahawy?
So I arrive at these palatialoffices in this high-rise
building, and I expected to givemy card and a couple of days
later say well, he's gotten apoint between 6 and 7 pm He'll
come to see you then.
(09:48):
Well, she walks in, hands thecard to General El-Tahawi.
He comes out Mr Maughan, comeon in.
Well, I didn't know what I wasgetting in for when you're
introduced to half of theEgyptian cabinet, mahmoud Fawzi,
the minister of war, the healthminister, this guy, that guy,
(10:11):
counterintelligence and Ifigured, oh my God, I'm out of
my depth, we're going to betalking about politics and
economics.
No, they just want to know howI liked Egypt.
And then General El-Tahawi saidwell, is there anything that
you'd like to see in Cairo?
Duh, well, the Cairo Museum,the Sphinx pyramids, yada, yada,
(10:31):
yada.
Okay, he picks up the phone andsays okay, five minutes later,
lieutenant Basri, or Lieutenantas we say here, lieutenant,
lieutenant.
And he said now I'd like you tomeet Lieutenant Basri.
Okay, I said, for the next 10days he's going to be your
(10:52):
personal guide and he will showup at 8 o'clock each morning in
an air-conditioned limousine.
And it was like a magicalcarpet ride.
I said well, I've got one otherproblem.
I got to park my camper, alldue respect, so you know it has
tires.
In the morning he said oh, noproblem, there's this fancy
(11:14):
Gazira club out in one of theNile Islands.
He gave me keys to the privatepart of the club and I parked my
car there and that's the camper.
And that's where LieutenantBasri met us every morning for
10 days.
And we just got shown Cairo likeit's never been shown before.
(11:35):
Now, I must confess it was inthe middle of a war so we didn't
see it at its best.
For instance, the Hiram Museumhad sandbags and tape windows
and the whole thing, and wedidn't see the King Tut exhibit
because it was down in thebasement forever.
But man, and then we went to anopera, all kinds of food, never
(12:00):
paid a dime, and then thatwasn't okay.
Serendipity, thank you verymuch, general serendipity.
Thank you very much, generalEl-Tahawy.
He says, well, where are yougoing to go from here?
I said, well, we might want togo to Aswan, no, impossible for
the camper.
But he says here's two firstclass tickets.
(12:21):
You go down to Aswan, I'll putyour camper on a flat car, I'll
have someone guard it and in duecourse it will arrive in Aswan
so you can continue your journeysouth.
Well, we got down to Aswan anddid our thing, and every day
we'd look out and nothing.
And then one day, low and baldinto the yard, came the train
(12:47):
and one of the flat cars satBridget our combi bus, and there
in front of it was this guywith an automatic machine gun, a
little bit of water from thedrink, and he had stayed and
guarded that the whole 500 milessouth from Cairo to Aswan.
So it was a tale of serendipityand it just continued on after
(13:14):
that.
And who to thunk it?
As they say that you meetsomeone and you just strike up a
conversation and it turns outthat General El-Tahawi the
reason he had all those guys inhis office, he was the
right-hand man to PresidentAbdul Gamal Nasser.
Right-hand man.
I didn't know it, I just talkto anyone who comes along.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I love this story because it does, it reflects,
you know when you travel andwhen you get out there and see
things.
Yeah, you do just talk topeople.
You don't know who you'retalking to.
You don't know.
You thought you were justtalking to.
Ah, there's all kinds ofgenerals here in Egypt and
what's going on, and so youdidn't know any better.
And look what it did.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And, if I might say, jake, just to kind of finish
that story, that wasn't the endof our friendship.
Every time I went on assignmentto Cairo, he would invite me to
his apartment or to his homeand we would talk not politics.
He loved the Egyptian footballclub, el Ahly and I liked
(14:15):
Zambalek.
Well, they're very bitterrivals and we'd go round and
round and round on that like acouple of kids, you know.
And then, as he got older, andthen one day I learned that he
had passed and it was likelosing a very dear friend
because he never asked anythingof me.
You know, he didn't ask me touse my platform on the Voice of
(14:38):
America for any pro-Egyptianrhetoric or whatever.
We were just friends.
And when we got together, Iwasn't a broadcaster and he
wasn't a high official in theEgyptian government.
We were just buddies, justfriends.
I love that, just because of achance conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Was there any tie to Africa, or was it simply because
we wanted to get warmer and itwas getting colder in Europe?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, no, it was because Morocco was the place
for snowbirds, if you will, tohead south and spend.
And Morocco it's a great place,marrakesh and Casablanca and
all the rest of it, nice placebut we never got there because
of Gaddafi.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So what year was this ?
Let me take us back, becausethis here's what's amazing too.
I've talked to a lot ofadventurers all the time, but
people have, you know, themodern convenience of today.
This was back before you knowsocial media and before people
are posting pictures and youhave help.
You didn't have theconveniences of today.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Exactly, exactly, jake.
That's an excellent point,because one of not jumping ahead
, but one of the questions I getasked the most is would you do
it today?
Not to put myself up on apedestal because we were
innocents abroad, we were justday by day, we were kind of
(16:10):
faking it until we were makingit.
But it was 1969.
There was none of theelectronic tethers that you have
today, no GPS, no Facebook orany cell phones or anything like
that, or sat phones.
How did you find your way?
(16:31):
Well, a lot of times we're outin the bush and my wife would
look up at the, which she's amathematician.
She'd look up at the sky andsay, okay, got to go south here.
Not a lot of roads to choosefrom anyway.
There was no, I mean justtracks, go this way.
Or you'd ask someone and I saythis in all the love in my heart
(16:54):
Africans, like a lot of peopleelsewhere in the world, they
tend to want to tell you whatthey think you want to hear.
Oh, should we go this way?
Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir, gothat way.
Well, they may not know, butthey think you want to hear that
, and so they'll go ahead andtell you that.
(17:15):
So it was more of an adventure.
It was more of an adventure inmany, many ways.
To answer that question, no, Iwouldn't do it today, not just
because of that.
But Africa's changed, not thepeople of Africa.
As I always say, the onlyproblems we had was not with the
(17:38):
people, never had a problem, itwas the government.
It was crossing borders andstuff like that.
That's where you had to mindyour P's and Q's and you had to
be careful, because this was theera of Idi Amin in Uganda,
telling a story about crossingborder into Uganda.
We give our passports over andI'm and I see, wait a minute,
(18:02):
this guy's got them upside down,but he's very carefully going
through them.
And my wife started to giggleand I kind of gave her a nudge,
stamped them.
Stamps are upside down.
He couldn't read.
You see, if I start to mock him, what happens then?
You don't know.
This was the era of Idi Amin.
(18:24):
I was in Ethiopia, best buddieswith the Ugandan ambassador to
Addis.
He had got word that he wasbeing considered to be the next
foreign minister.
Well, the first two foreignministers under Amin had ended
up in the Murchison Falls ascrocodile bait.
(18:44):
Okay, so he said, well, if I'mnamed, I'm on the first plane to
London and would you help getmy family and he was named it?
He was gone, you know, and Aminwas the kind of person you
could be in the room with himand he could just look at you
and out of his mind he wouldthink I don't like that person
(19:07):
and you were Jeopardy.
He was a crazy guy.
But anyway, that's the longanswer to your question.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Well, and let's stay on those same lines for a minute
.
Not having the modernconveniences, not having GPS,
all that good stuff, crossingborders, which was tricky just
because of governments andthings.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Did you have any moments where you had fear or
you were scared or were theremoments like that that crept in?
The first half of the trip wasfrom Egypt to Ethiopia.
I'd lived and worked inEthiopia, so I got a measure of
the continent.
Not that Ethiopia is the sameas the rest of the continent,
it's not but I got a measure ofhow you go about your business.
(19:55):
You don't act the bigpharyngeal, you don't try to
lord it over people.
You know when to be notsubservient, but just to be
humble.
And this held me in good steadand us both in good stead the
rest of the way south.
Because, yeah, there weretricky times.
(20:19):
But from Ethiopia on down toSouth Africa, we had a hidden
weapon, a one-year-old towhead,and Kevin was born in Ethiopia.
The first half of the trip, nochildren.
Then, whoops, somethinghappened, too much time
somewhere.
And then Kevin came along andhe ingratiated himself because
(20:44):
he was he was a towhead.
He had snow white hair, blueeyes, you know, and in many
places this was not seen veryoften by those people you know,
and they were entranced by him,and so he opened a lot of doors
to us.
But I think it was justtreating people as you would
(21:06):
like to be treated yourself andnot acting, the big shot that
gets you a long way, youmentioned Kevin.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you get to Ethiopia and you spent some time
in Ethiopia before continuingsouth.
Kevin comes along.
And how old was Kevin when youstarted the journey south?
Would you say one year old?
Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
He celebrated his first birthday at a nature park
in Nairobi, kenya, the firstpart of the trip.
He was like 10 months.
I don't want anyone sayingchild abuse, child no, no, no,
no, no.
There's a well in the back ofthe camper where my wife first
(21:47):
lined it with foam rubber andthen put blankets down and the
whole thing In the first fivemiles.
Kevin fell down, once in there,padded and everything didn't
hurt himself and he learned tohang on.
It's amazing what they can dowith that age.
It was duck soup, it really was.
(22:09):
And my wife now former wife Ican't say enough about Suzanne.
She took wonderful care of usand in so many cases where I had
just about given up well, thisis the end of the trip.
Then she came up with aningenious way for us to continue
.
Let me give you an example.
Jake, we're in Aswan and we hadto board the Aswan Queen.
(22:35):
Well, if you've ever seen mybook, you'll see a picture of
the Ask One Queen which is kindof like a couple of garbage
scouts put together.
But we had to get our camperonto one area to carry it down
to Wadi Halfa, or up now to WadiHalfa, okay.
Well, we get to it and it's gota stanchion across the top and
(22:59):
I'm stuck and I said we can'tget on.
The stanchion can't be moved,they won't move it, but we can't
get on.
This is my non-technical brainat work here.
Suzanne just looks and she sayswell, wait a minute, we just
take a little bit of air out ofeach tire.
What Too much, because we don'twant to be on flat tires.
(23:24):
A little bit slid right under,you see.
So it took two of us, it tookher acumen and when it came to
technology and all that, andthen I think humbly, I say I'm a
people and that kind of helpedus a lot of times as well.
So we're a good combination.
But we didn't get in the way ofeach other.
(23:46):
We let the other's strengthcome forth.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Great example.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But it was just a series of serendipities, jake.
It was a series ofserendipities that just kept us
going further and further andfurther south, and to the point
where, after living in Ethiopiafor three years, I just go the
rest of the way south collectingall the, not only the visas and
(24:13):
everything.
But we had to have what theycall a carne de passage, had to
have what they call a carnet depassage, and that's where you
are telling the country in whichBridget is entering that you
will.
If you sell her there, then youwill pay all the taxes and yada
, yada, yada, and that's theonly way that they will allow
(24:37):
you to bring the car into thatcountry.
You know, you get all thatsquare the way, but a lot of it
is.
You've got to be savvy, becausea lot of the visas are only
good for a certain amount oftime.
You can't lollygag, say, inTanzania, and then show up at
the Malawi border and your visais out of date, you know,
(24:58):
because that just doesn't work.
As long as you have all yourpaperwork scrupulously in order,
you're fine.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Keep that paperwork in order.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, and I think it works that way in a lot of
things, right.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Absolutely.
I want to ask another thingabout Kevin, because here you
are traveling with yourone-year-old son.
I read somewhere that youcalled him the goodwill
ambassador and you mentioned heopened doors for you.
Do you have an example of howhe did that or how he was an
ambassador opened a door for you?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
One of the most poignant stories and I called
the chapter the oneness of love.
We're looking for a place oneday to have lunch and with a
little privacy.
Not that, you know, we didn'twant to see anyone, it was just
to be nice, just to have a placefor quiet and not have anyone.
Well, you've really learned inAfrica you can be out in the
(25:53):
middle of nowhere and we got thecamper top up and Suzanne's got
Kevin in the jerry pack andshe's doing lunch and you just
get this feeling, hmm, someone'swatching us.
And then you look and this isvery respectful and no harm,
there's this ring of peoplewatching you.
(26:15):
There was this one area that waspopulated by the Dinka ethnic
group.
They're tall, extremely dark,they're nilotic people, herders,
pastoralists.
Anyway, she had a baby aboutthe same size as Kevin.
She was fascinated and she gotcloser and closer, was
(26:45):
fascinated and she went closerand closer.
And you know, kevin and Suzanne, they had this instinct.
There's nothing to be afraid ofhere.
She came closer and closer andthen she reached out her hand
and so lovingly just touchedKevin's hair and his face, you
know, because maybe you've neverseen someone like him before,
you know.
And then the two of them changebabies and people always say to
(27:08):
me well, why didn't you take apicture?
This was back in talking aboutthese electronic Tevin's.
This was back of the SLR days,you know.
Okay, wait, a minute, standstill, I've got to get the
S-stop done, or nowadays youjust take a couple of
surreptitious, you know, cellphone photos, right?
No, and I just I say to peopleI didn't want to spoil the
(27:30):
moment, it was touching, it wasso touching and it just showed
us this is the humanity of man.
Yes, she's dark with her baby,white her baby, but they changed
them because they would neverdo anything to harm the other
(27:51):
baby, you know, and so that wasvery so.
So that was.
That was one, one example of ofhow he opened doors.
I mean, I could give you otherones, but that was like we're in
Lesotho.
There's another picture in thebook where he's trying on one of
the conical hats which aretraditional Lesotho hats.
(28:11):
All the young ladies camearound and were just so
fascinated to see this littlebaby and was just so fascinated
to see this little baby.
He was walking by that time andtrying on this hat and we got
to meet their relatives andwhatever.
He was an entree and he justhad this sense.
He wasn't afraid.
They showed him no malice, hehad no reason to be afraid.
(28:36):
Time and time again he was ourentree to always good things.
These are great examples.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
When you think about your time in Africa, what's
something about the real Africathat you feel maybe modern
travelers or people today missout on or don't quite understand
.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I have no animus or anyone against the safaris.
I have no animus or anythingagainst the Safaris, but it's a
kind of a homogenized look atthe continent.
Yes, you're going to see allthe animals and all the people,
but there's always a change inmy mind and maybe I'm biased of
(29:17):
the Mondo County, the excitingoh, you know, deepest, darkest
Africa of Lord Stanley and DavidLivingston and Mondo Park and
the rest of them.
A lot of people think thatAfrica is all jungle.
No, the vast amount of Africais savanna and you've got the
iconic acacia trees, oh, andyou've got the iconic acacia
(29:41):
trees, oh, and boy can they ripup your tires.
That's another story.
They all think it's like theCongo jungle.
It is not.
Yes, there are vast areas of it, but there's also vast areas
and our travels, I would say weonly touched on the jungle, part
of it, maybe for two or threedays, because if you look down
(30:06):
the spine where we went, it'sall savannah.
It's all savannah, beautiful,but it's not what everybody
thinks.
As I wrote in one of thechapters, we were in the part of
the Congo, just a little bit ofit, right next to Uganda, and I
expected to hear ah Taizan, youknow, swinging from branch to
(30:28):
branch with Jane, because it hadthat feel.
If you read that chapter itwill give you a feel that you
know you were in the jungle thesmells, the craters, the
butterflies, the animals thatyou couldn't see.
You could just hear off in thedistance the hoots of the
monkeys and whatever that gaveyou the feel of the tropical,
(30:51):
the forest, the jungle, africa.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
But most of the time it was savanna, kind of staying
on that same line jungle,savannah, different spots.
Were there any parts of thistrip that was just like
awe-inspiring whether it's thevista or whether it was an
experience, any things like thatthat you could share Well?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
in one of the chapters, jake, I go through my
top 10 views of Africa.
I go through my top 10 views ofAfrica.
We had to drive the desert roadcoming from Alexandria to Cairo
because the agricultural roadwas being used to park Egyptian
MiGs so the Israelis couldn'tbomb them, so that was off
(31:36):
limits.
But we're just driving along.
We come up over a rise andthere are the pyramids, and they
were off in the distance, I'mnot saying we could reach out
and touch, they're probablymiles away, but just it still
brings chills and we just notsupposed to stop.
But we we had to stop and justview it and I knew the pictures
(31:59):
wouldn't turn out because theywere so far away.
And that was.
That was probably number one.
Number two victoria falls on lowwater.
Low water because if you gohigh water you don't see
anything because the mist,thrown up by the millions of
gallons of water just tumbling300 feet, forming the border
(32:22):
between Zambia and what was thenRhodesia, now Zimbabwe.
There's one spot where theprevailing winds bring the mists
and it's like a small jungle inthe middle of dry, barren
acacia.
And you are given like bootsand you are given like boots and
you're given, uh, slickers andand a hat, because if you stand
(32:46):
there long enough you're gonnaget soaked.
It's like a not even a mile,probably 200 square feet, where
the just, the winds take it allthe time, the mists from from
the falls there and the noiseeven at low water.
It's just and you could.
(33:06):
We knew we were getting close tothem, five miles away, because
you can hear them chile, manjaro, the tallest freestanding
mountain in the world, and justsitting in Amboseli National
Park, and we've got our coolones out there and we're sitting
there and we get out in front,you've got the zebras, and then
(33:30):
off on one side, against theskyline, a herd of elephants,
and then Killer Manjaro up aheadof you and you say it can't get
much better than this.
You know, this is amazing, youknow.
And then lots of other ones,just enough to keep you
interested in looking around thenext bend, because there's
(33:50):
always something Looking back,because this was, you know, 50
years ago, 50 plus years ago.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
how has this trip shaped who you are today?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I wouldn't have done it any differently.
I think that the reason thatwe're successful and I won't say
unscathed, because that kind ofputs a pejorative on it.
But if I could go back 50 years, I'd do it all again and I
probably wouldn't change a thing, because the matrix was just
(34:18):
right.
Kevin was there.
He's now 55, and he still can'tbelieve that we put him through
this and he survived.
The continent is a differentplace today, I'd say the average
folk and I write this in thebook we're in the outback of
(34:39):
Ethiopia Came across this familyin their little tukul, which is
around their home.
We got to talking to them andthey invited, as did most
Africans.
They will give you half of whatthey don't have.
And it was some sort of a wat,which is Ethiopian for stew.
We were eating it and it was afew crunchy bits and Suzanne
(35:04):
didn't want to eat it and I saidto her hey, you eat it, it's
been boiled, it's not going tokill you, it's probably sort of
chewy.
Anyway, we got to talking.
I knew a smattering of English.
I had a little bit ofKichinamharic at that point.
That's a national language.
(35:25):
Through stops and starts I gotfrom him what most people want
in their life.
They wanted three square mealson the table for their children,
they wanted as littlegovernment intrusion in their
life and they didn't want theirchildren to be shipped off to
(35:47):
die in some foreign war.
Well hello, you know again thehumanity of man.
I can identify with that,regardless of your politics.
I mean these are visceralthings that are inculcated in
most people that they want fortheir family.
I want best, better for myfamily.
You know, as he did, and Ilearned time and time again in
(36:12):
just getting down and talking topeople, not just traveling
through the continent, butstopping and talking to people.
You learn a lot, even thoughyou know English is not so good
and, of course, my Swahili isnon-existent, apart from
Jambabwan, asante San, you know,and whatever.
(36:34):
From fits and starts you kindof get a sense that these are
good folks.
Their socioeconomic situationmight be different, that's all
right.
But if you meet them on theirlevel again, getting back to
what I said if you meet them ontheir level and don't play the
big I am, then you're going toget a lot more from them.
(36:56):
Many, many times.
You'll see one picture in there.
You'll see us mired on thehighway between Addis and Kenya,
which is now a paved road, butthis will show you, was this
thick black seacoast soil and weneeded people to push us
through because we were stuck.
(37:19):
Villagers would come out.
They thought it was great funand try to give them anything.
No, no, no, no, no, no, we'lljust help you.
You know, fording rivers, okay,I had to have a guy.
It was just deep enough.
Think no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
(37:40):
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Rubber hose and I stuck it overthe exhaust pipe and he stood on
the back bumper holding thepipe up and across I went.
Could I give him anything?
No, no, no, part of the fun.
Yeah, we made a lot of the tripon our own, as we say in
(38:02):
Australia, savvy, whatever, buta lot of it was with an immense
amount of goodwill and help fromthe locals we met along the way
.
You know, as long as we metthem at their level, in the term
Okay, you've alluded to it.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Well, you've mentioned it a few times the
book.
Tell me about the book, whatinspired you to write it?
And I think it just came outrecently.
I think it came out in May, soit's been 50 some years since
this adventure.
What inspired you to do this?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I've written a couple of other books and I mentioned
them only because there was onecommon thread as you get to be
my age, in nearing 84, and youwant your not your legacy, but
you want your children,grandchildren,
great-grandchildren, to have asense of, maybe, what you did in
(38:56):
your life, not to make it anybig deal.
So, getting to this bookBeneath the African Sun, it
started out as okay, back in theday, I'll get behind my
typewriter and type out 20 or 30pages and go down to the local
(39:18):
Kinko's or Staples and staple ittogether and then put a cover
on it, and then I'll make 20 or30 copies and hand it out to my
family and whatever.
And then my daughter and sonsaid, oops, I think this might
make a book.
Yeah, okay, well, I keptputting it off because it was
(39:41):
such a major thing.
But then about four years ago Isaid no, I've got to get into
this because I'm not getting anyyounger.
So I started, chapter bychapter, piecing it together,
and when I look at all the workthat we put in and then finding
the, going through the 5,000slides and picking 39 from that
(40:01):
and placing them and, of course,getting the proper editors and
having a fantastic publishingassistant, amanda Miller.
She's amazing, she has thetechnical know-how.
That was my biggest challenge,jake.
It was not the words, it's thetransmission of that In today's
(40:23):
Collins, and I haven't had aclue.
So she's helped me.
I couldn't have done it withouther.
It started as just a very, verysmall project and it just
mushroomed, just grew and grewand grew.
And then I started lookingthrough journals remembering
(40:45):
funny incidents, not so funnyjournals remembering funny
incidents, not so funny whatever.
And then the idea of a fullblown book started to make sense
to me.
Just took it a step at a time.
You know we have the Africansaying how do you eat an
elephant ear sandwich A bite ata time?
And that's how I did it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Seriously, just a bite at a time.
And here you are at 84 yearsyoung, and you got it done.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, it's a wonderful sense of
accomplishment, would not beremiss in saying that.
When I saw it actuallypublished and out on the various
channels internet channels Ished a tear because I never
really thought that I knew Icould do it.
(41:33):
I've been a writer all my life.
It was could I do it?
At my age I did it, and nowI've got another one that I'm
thinking about.
So we did a Suzanne and myselfdid a transcontinental journey
around Australia in a camper,and so I've taken, I wrote a lot
(41:55):
of chapters at the time and soI think, look, you got to keep
going, jake, you got to keepgoing.
You know?
I mean, yeah, that's what, ifyou're a writer, you're a writer
.
If you're a podcaster likeyourself, you got to keep going.
Man, you know.
And sometimes people say to mewell, how many copies have you
sold?
(42:15):
I don't know.
You see, that's never been thegoal, seriously, and I'm not
joking with you.
I'm not joking with you and I'mgratified with the number that
it is, and it's number one on alot of bestseller lists too.
That's humbling and I'm happilylooking at that, but it's
(42:38):
really not as long as it's inthe hands of my family and my
good friends.
I have to tell you this, jake,as quick my publisher's
assistant wonderful neverdisagrees with me.
Well, when she saw how manyfree books I was buying, she
said Barry, the idea is to sellthese books, just give it away.
(42:59):
This is the way I am.
I know it sounds like I'm thebig I am, because this harkens
back to my original intent.
It was not to make a lot ofmoney.
If that be the case, great,take it.
But if not, you've done it andthe friends who mean something
(43:21):
to me and my family and mychildren nine grandchildren well
then, they'll pass it along andmaybe they'll know more about
the continent, maybe go back,and if they go back, they'll go
back with the proper spirit, ifthat Africa is still has any
semblance of what I encountered.
(43:43):
You know, people are people,are people, jake.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Thank you for sharing that because it's inspiring to
me as a podcaster and I've beendoing it for three and a half
years now I don't want to stopeither, because I people like
you who tell me your story andyour journey.
It's inspiring to me and Idon't want to see that end.
So I appreciate you sharingthat and it just kind of got me
all motivated again.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
So thank you for that no, I mean, and I would say to
you, as I've said to the otheryoung people that I've talked to
, just hang in there and don'tgive up, Because if it's a labor
of love, as I tell my couple ofgranddaughters who are runners,
one with the University ofVirginia and one doing very well
(44:26):
in high school, I said just runwith passion and joy.
If you've got passion in yourlife, you've got it all.
And I think that I have apassion for Africa, not with
rose-colored glasses on.
I realize that there'ssituations there.
I realize that there'ssituations there.
(44:47):
But having rubbed shoulders thelength of the continent with
people Muslim, Christian,animist doesn't matter, whatever
the language, they're goodfolks if you give them half the
opportunity to be good folks.
And so I would just say toyoung broadcasters like yourself
don't give up, man, Just keepat it as long as you enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Absolutely.
I love it.
No signs of me stopping anytimesoon, and it's because of
people like you.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
And I've listened to a couple of them and that's why
I was excited to come on withyou, because you're good and I
can tell that you're interestedin your subject.
You're not just doing it forthe sake of doing it.
Say, well, I'm a podcaster.
Well, you know, and I can sense.
I can sense passion, as Ialways said to my broadcasters
(45:40):
at the Voice of America before Isaid look, I can teach you my
technique, I can teach you howto speak from the diaphragm.
But I said I can't open up thetop of your head and pour in a
pound of passion.
You have to bring that to thetable.
And if you bring that to thetable, then you'll be successful
(46:00):
.
It may not be overnight, butyou will be successful, you know
, and so you know I love peoplelike yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yourself, really well , thank you, appreciate that.
You're 84 now.
What are the plan?
Any other plans?
You said you might writeanother book.
You ever plan to go back toafrica.
What are some of the plans?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
well, I I retired early from the voice of america
in 2000, so I've, in the last 25years I've been writing, wrote
a couple of the books, one beingabout my mom growing up in
Australia, so they know thatpart of the heritage.
I've done a series of old oneminute segments of old songs
(46:42):
that I broadcast for a Scottishradio station, rivety Radio.
I did that for two or threeyears.
What else I love?
To email.
I like to keep in contact withsome colleagues a few that are
remaining around the world, andwe like to get on and chat and I
(47:07):
just love talking to people.
I love communications.
I truly believe if there wasmore communications and travel
among people, we'd have far lessof the problems that we have
today.
Because if you understandpeople like I I don't understand
all the people of Africa, Imean, you can't just generalize
(47:30):
like that but if you get a senseof traveling the world and I've
visited 63 countries and workedin 41, not for a long time, but
enough to kind of get a sensethat folks are, folks, are folks
I just want to keep doing that.
I just want to keep reachingout to people in any way I can,
(47:51):
inspiring, if I can like, withyou and other people that I talk
to, because I like to seepassion in any form, and it
doesn't have to be somethingthat I identify.
If you're passionate aboutmathematics which I'm a gold at
Great, I can still sense it theway you talk about it, you see.
(48:12):
So, yeah, I'm just going tocontinue to do that until the
curtain comes down.
Who knows how long that'll be.
I've lived a good life.
I've been very happy with mylife.
I've taught a lot ofjournalists and they're
continuing to spread the word.
I was fortunate enough to get alot of publicity.
(48:34):
I was one of four journalistsembedded in Ethiopia who covered
the entire coup that broughtdown Emperor Haile Selassie a
coup that brought down EmperorHaile Selassie.
And then I was one of the fewjournalists up in Wallow
Province to cover the droughtand subsequent famine, where
(48:55):
hundreds of thousands of peopledied, and I was able to, through
words, start bringing that tothe world.
And then Jonathan Dimbleby ofthe BBC came in with the power
of television.
I've been in the midst of somepretty good stories.
I just like to continue toreach out to communicators
(49:15):
wherever I find them and justgive them encouragement and help
in any way I can, because Ineeded people's help along the
way, and that's the problem.
A lot of folks, when they makeit, they pull the ladder up
behind them and you can't dothat.
You have to continue toremember how you got there, and
(49:38):
I had a lot of help in gettingwhere I took advantage of it the
proper way, but I still had thehelp and I just want to
continue to give that back.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Barry, this has been just amazing for me to get to
know you, who you are, youradventure through Africa and
just in life in general.
I mean, you've had a lot ofadventures, not just with Africa
but a lot of places.
My final question for you whatdoes adventure mean to Barry?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
My final question for you what does adventure mean to
Barry?
Searching for the here to, forunknown.
Adventure is not being afraidof what's around the next bend.
Adventure is a willingness toembrace whomever you meet.
(50:27):
Adventure is always seekingthat next horizon.
Adventure is loving whoever youcome in contact with.
Adventure is of the heart.
Adventure is born in you.
(50:50):
That's not to say you can'tborn in you, or that's not to
say you can't acquire it.
But I think a lot of peoplehave more of that adventure
spirit and I just thank goodnessthat my first wife, suzanne,
had that same adventurous spirit, because if I've asked 100
women, would they do the samething that Suzanne did?
(51:13):
No, well, they said more thanthat.
But no, are you kidding me?
What You're crazy.
I was fortunate that myadventurous spirit coincided and
coalesced with Suzanne's.
It's just wanting to know whatother people are about and
(51:37):
learning their proclivities, andlearning what they like and
what they dislike, and not beingafraid to open your mouth and
say hi, and good things can comeout of that.
That's where the next adventureis.
It's just the next words out ofyour mouth.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Barry, thank you so much for coming on Journey with
Jake.
Oh, jake.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I couldn't be happier .
You've got your craft down andI can only wish you the very,
very best.
And anyone who would like moreBeneath the African Sun.
My website's BarryMorn.
All one wordB-A-R-R-Y-M-A-U-G-H-A-Ncom.
That's over with.
(52:19):
I've given the plug, but I'mtruly, truly I'm proud to plug
this book.
As any author will say, I canguarantee you that you will come
away with a better, morecleaner understanding of what
(52:42):
the true Africa hopefully istoday but was 50 years ago, and
if I have accomplished that,then that's all I want.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
A big thank you to Barry Maughan for sharing his
incredible story and giving us aglimpse into what it was like
to travel across Africa morethan 50 years ago.
If you want to dive deeper intoBarry's journey, be sure to
visit BarryManncom that'sB-A-R-R-Y-M-A-U-G-H-A-Ncom,
where you can purchase his bookBeneath the African Sun and
(53:16):
learn more about his adventures.
Thank you so much, barry.
If this episode resonated withyou, please take a moment to
share Journey with Jake with afriend.
Leave a rating or review andhelp spread these amazing
stories of resilience,exploration and personal growth.
Your support truly makes adifference.
And don't miss next week'sepisode with the inspiring
(53:37):
Makela Leeper.
We'll explore her world ofcompetitive swimming and
coaching and talk about howadventure and purpose show up
even at a young age.
It's a refreshing reminder thatyou're never too young or too
old to embrace the journey.
And just remember it's notalways about the destination as
it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
What if you could travel back in time and
experience Africa as it was over50 years ago?
That's exactly what BarryMaughan did, driving from
Alexandria, egypt, to thesouthern tip of South Africa,
long before GPS and guidebooksruled the road.
In this episode, barry sharesstories from his remarkable
journey, captured in his bookBeneath the African Sun.
(00:21):
Buckle up for an adventurethrough history, humanity and
the raw heart of a continent.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will feature adifferent guest or guests, as
(00:42):
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you also hear
the failures and trials eachguest faces and what they have
done or are doing to overcomethe hardships that come their
way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
(01:05):
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination, as it is about
the journey.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
(01:26):
I'm your host, jake Bushman,and I'm so glad you're here.
Each week, I get the chance tosit down with some incredible
people who share their uniquestories of adventure, resilience
and the past that shaped them.
Before we dive into BarryMaughan's unforgettable journey
through Africa, just a quick bitof housekeeping.
Be sure to follow me onInstagram at Journey with Jake
podcast for behind the scenescontent and episode updates.
(01:48):
Journey with Jake is also partof the Podmatch podcast network,
helping connect voices andstories that inspire, and if you
haven't already check out theJourney with Jake YouTube
channel, it's a great way towatch the full recording of
today's conversation.
If you prefer video over audio.
Today's episode takes us backover 50 years as Barry recounts
his drive from Alexandria, egypt, to the southern tip of Africa,
(02:12):
an adventure capturedbeautifully in his book Beneath
the African Sun.
If you enjoy this episode, makesure to check out episode 108
with Chris Donaldson, who rodehis motorcycle around the world
in the 1970s.
Two different paths, sameadventurous spirit.
Let's get to my conversationwith Barry.
All right, I'm excited todayI've got Barry.
(02:33):
Is it Mon?
How do you say your last name,barry?
I want to make sure I get thisright Mon yes.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Call me anything except late for supper, as my
mom used to say.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Right on Barry Mon.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, thank you, jake .
Thanks for having me onPleasure.
I've listened to some of yourpodcasts and it's an honor to be
on with you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I appreciate that Africa.
We're going to really dive intoAfrica.
I think your heart's in Africa.
You've spent a lot of time inAfrica.
We're going to dive into Africa.
Before we do that, before weget to your adventure and what
you got going on there, tell mea little bit about Barry.
Just some backgroundinformation.
Where are you from, where yougrew up?
A little bit about your family,that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, I grew up in Australia the outback of
Australia was born just ninedays after Pearl Harbor, so I'm
long in the tooth Came to Canadaat the age of 10, and then,
through a marriage ofconvenience, my mom got me over
to Portsmouth, new Hampshire,where I grew up and got a
(03:37):
bachelor's in journalismadvertising from Boston
University in 65.
Advertising from BostonUniversity in 65, and then in 67
, got a master's in journalismmanagement from Oklahoma State.
Then bounced around which Iwould recommend for any aspiring
radio broadcaster at a lot ofdawn to dusk radio stations
(04:00):
where you learned it all.
You learn to rip and read news,go network, do remotes, do all
the checks out at the station,do a little bit of DJ work and
just you learn the trade.
And that's where I wouldrecommend anyone who wants to
aspire to a career inbroadcasting should start and
(04:23):
started that way and thenstarted traveling, ended up in
Ethiopia, saw a radio stationthere.
Driving in, radio Voice of theGospel, said I can do that and
the guy hired me.
Six years later moved on toRadio Australia, then New
Zealand Broadcasting and thelast 25 years was with the Voice
(04:47):
of America in Washington whereI was in the English to Africa
service, and I was proud to bethe chief of that service for
the last five years of my career.
So here I am.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Wow, a long career in broadcasting radio.
Amazing, here you are.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Jake, they always said I had the perfect face for
radio.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's what I was saying about podcasting, and now
I put stuff out on YouTube, soI'm like I don't know if you
know, I don't know if it worksfor it, but hey, at least we got
this thing going, which is fun,so I enjoy this part of it.
I've always enjoyed thisbecause I enjoy hearing people's
stories and who they are, andI'm excited to hear your story.
We're going to talk a lot aboutthis trip you took along the
length of Africa, the Africancontinent, in a VW, like bus,
(05:35):
little mini bus.
What first sparked your desireto travel to Africa?
And, before we get into that,what was your family situation
Like?
Were you married at the time?
You know what kind of you haveany kids kind of?
What's the situation?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
there.
Yes, my wife and I were married, didn't have any children.
We're in a kind of dead endjobs and working in New York
city.
I was with Benton and Bowlesadvertising parking such things
as a Crest toothpaste andhoneycomb cereals and the rest
of it.
She was in another position inthe city and we really didn't
(06:08):
feel like we were going anywhereand just wanted to change.
And we started saying, well,why don't we just travel a
little bit?
So we saved our money, took aboat over to Antwerp, germany,
and before that we had purchaseda Volkswagen camper bus and
arrived there with the sevenduffel bags and stuffed
(06:29):
everything into the camper busand off we went to Switzerland
you know the usual tour ofEurope then up to Norway, and I
had some great adventures inNorway and then it started
getting cold and we said it'stime to head south, young man.
So we decided maybe Portugal orSpain, and then, as we learned
(06:54):
more about the crowdedconditions there, we said eh.
Then someone whispered in ourear hey, go to Morocco.
Never taking the easy way, youknow, across the Straits of
Gibraltar down to Morocco, let'stake a boat trip around the
littoral of the Mediterranean.
We ended up in Alexandria andsaid well, let's just drive
(07:17):
across North Africa to Morocco.
Well, we were just one day awayfrom heading west to Libya and
then a fellow named MohamedGaddafi decided to stage a coup
and close the borders, and wedidn't know for how long.
(07:37):
It was a journey of serendipity, so many serendipities.
Then we said, well, should wejust turn tail and go back to
Europe?
That was kind of like a fetusattitude.
I had met this chap on the boatwith nothing better to do, just
that.
I'll talk to a post if it'llstand still.
Turned out that he was ageneral Egyptian general.
(07:59):
Well, in the Middle Eastgenerals are a dime a dozen, but
anyway, we got to chatting.
His name was Ibrahimam HimelTahawi and we got to chatting
and I hit it off.
So he gave me his card and Ifigured that that's a nice way
from just to say you know whenin Cairo, look me up, yeah,
right.
Anyway, the next day, one ofhis he was always surrounded
(08:23):
with kind of shadowy lookingmilitary types and one of them
sidled up to me and said oh,general El-Tahawi would like the
pleasure of your company againover dinner.
I said, okay, good enough.
Anyway.
So we landed in Alexandria.
I heard the news about Gaddafiand said well, we might as well
(08:45):
just head south to Cairo, seethe pyramids and whatever, maybe
turn around and go back.
Well, it was in the middle ofthe War of Attrition, one of
many wars that the Egyptians andtheir allies were fighting
against Israel, so it was afractious time.
But I arrived in Cairo,couldn't find a place to park
(09:07):
the camper.
So I said well, here's this guywho says he's the president of
the Young Men's MuslimAssociation.
Okay, akin to the Young Men'sChristian Association over here.
Wrong, but anyway, I didn'tknow any better.
So I said we need, we'redesperate, we needed a place to
put the camper.
(09:27):
My wife said well, while I'mstaying with friends, why don't
you go on over and see if youcan talk to General El-Tahawy?
So I arrive at these palatialoffices in this high-rise
building, and I expected to givemy card and a couple of days
later say well, he's gotten apoint between 6 and 7 pm He'll
come to see you then.
(09:48):
Well, she walks in, hands thecard to General El-Tahawi.
He comes out Mr Maughan, comeon in.
Well, I didn't know what I wasgetting in for when you're
introduced to half of theEgyptian cabinet, mahmoud Fawzi,
the minister of war, the healthminister, this guy, that guy,
(10:11):
counterintelligence and Ifigured, oh my God, I'm out of
my depth, we're going to betalking about politics and
economics.
No, they just want to know howI liked Egypt.
And then General El-Tahawi saidwell, is there anything that
you'd like to see in Cairo?
Duh, well, the Cairo Museum,the Sphinx pyramids, yada, yada,
(10:31):
yada.
Okay, he picks up the phone andsays okay, five minutes later,
lieutenant Basri, or Lieutenantas we say here, lieutenant,
lieutenant.
And he said now I'd like you tomeet Lieutenant Basri.
Okay, I said, for the next 10days he's going to be your
(10:52):
personal guide and he will showup at 8 o'clock each morning in
an air-conditioned limousine.
And it was like a magicalcarpet ride.
I said well, I've got one otherproblem.
I got to park my camper, alldue respect, so you know it has
tires.
In the morning he said oh, noproblem, there's this fancy
(11:14):
Gazira club out in one of theNile Islands.
He gave me keys to the privatepart of the club and I parked my
car there and that's the camper.
And that's where LieutenantBasri met us every morning for
10 days.
And we just got shown Cairo likeit's never been shown before.
(11:35):
Now, I must confess it was inthe middle of a war so we didn't
see it at its best.
For instance, the Hiram Museumhad sandbags and tape windows
and the whole thing, and wedidn't see the King Tut exhibit
because it was down in thebasement forever.
But man, and then we went to anopera, all kinds of food, never
(12:00):
paid a dime, and then thatwasn't okay.
Serendipity, thank you verymuch, general serendipity.
Thank you very much, generalEl-Tahawy.
He says, well, where are yougoing to go from here?
I said, well, we might want togo to Aswan, no, impossible for
the camper.
But he says here's two firstclass tickets.
(12:21):
You go down to Aswan, I'll putyour camper on a flat car, I'll
have someone guard it and in duecourse it will arrive in Aswan
so you can continue your journeysouth.
Well, we got down to Aswan anddid our thing, and every day
we'd look out and nothing.
And then one day, low and baldinto the yard, came the train
(12:47):
and one of the flat cars satBridget our combi bus, and there
in front of it was this guywith an automatic machine gun, a
little bit of water from thedrink, and he had stayed and
guarded that the whole 500 milessouth from Cairo to Aswan.
So it was a tale of serendipityand it just continued on after
(13:14):
that.
And who to thunk it?
As they say that you meetsomeone and you just strike up a
conversation and it turns outthat General El-Tahawi the
reason he had all those guys inhis office, he was the
right-hand man to PresidentAbdul Gamal Nasser.
Right-hand man.
I didn't know it, I just talkto anyone who comes along.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I love this story because it does, it reflects,
you know when you travel andwhen you get out there and see
things.
Yeah, you do just talk topeople.
You don't know who you'retalking to.
You don't know.
You thought you were justtalking to.
Ah, there's all kinds ofgenerals here in Egypt and
what's going on, and so youdidn't know any better.
And look what it did.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And, if I might say, jake, just to kind of finish
that story, that wasn't the endof our friendship.
Every time I went on assignmentto Cairo, he would invite me to
his apartment or to his homeand we would talk not politics.
He loved the Egyptian footballclub, el Ahly and I liked
(14:15):
Zambalek.
Well, they're very bitterrivals and we'd go round and
round and round on that like acouple of kids, you know.
And then, as he got older, andthen one day I learned that he
had passed and it was likelosing a very dear friend
because he never asked anythingof me.
You know, he didn't ask me touse my platform on the Voice of
(14:38):
America for any pro-Egyptianrhetoric or whatever.
We were just friends.
And when we got together, Iwasn't a broadcaster and he
wasn't a high official in theEgyptian government.
We were just buddies, justfriends.
I love that, just because of achance conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Was there any tie to Africa, or was it simply because
we wanted to get warmer and itwas getting colder in Europe?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, no, it was because Morocco was the place
for snowbirds, if you will, tohead south and spend.
And Morocco it's a great place,marrakesh and Casablanca and
all the rest of it, nice placebut we never got there because
of Gaddafi.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So what year was this ?
Let me take us back, becausethis here's what's amazing too.
I've talked to a lot ofadventurers all the time, but
people have, you know, themodern convenience of today.
This was back before you knowsocial media and before people
are posting pictures and youhave help.
You didn't have theconveniences of today.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Exactly, exactly, jake.
That's an excellent point,because one of not jumping ahead
, but one of the questions I getasked the most is would you do
it today?
Not to put myself up on apedestal because we were
innocents abroad, we were justday by day, we were kind of
(16:10):
faking it until we were makingit.
But it was 1969.
There was none of theelectronic tethers that you have
today, no GPS, no Facebook orany cell phones or anything like
that, or sat phones.
How did you find your way?
(16:31):
Well, a lot of times we're outin the bush and my wife would
look up at the, which she's amathematician.
She'd look up at the sky andsay, okay, got to go south here.
Not a lot of roads to choosefrom anyway.
There was no, I mean justtracks, go this way.
Or you'd ask someone and I saythis in all the love in my heart
(16:54):
Africans, like a lot of peopleelsewhere in the world, they
tend to want to tell you whatthey think you want to hear.
Oh, should we go this way?
Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir, gothat way.
Well, they may not know, butthey think you want to hear that
, and so they'll go ahead andtell you that.
(17:15):
So it was more of an adventure.
It was more of an adventure inmany, many ways.
To answer that question, no, Iwouldn't do it today, not just
because of that.
But Africa's changed, not thepeople of Africa.
As I always say, the onlyproblems we had was not with the
(17:38):
people, never had a problem, itwas the government.
It was crossing borders andstuff like that.
That's where you had to mindyour P's and Q's and you had to
be careful, because this was theera of Idi Amin in Uganda,
telling a story about crossingborder into Uganda.
We give our passports over andI'm and I see, wait a minute,
(18:02):
this guy's got them upside down,but he's very carefully going
through them.
And my wife started to giggleand I kind of gave her a nudge,
stamped them.
Stamps are upside down.
He couldn't read.
You see, if I start to mock him, what happens then?
You don't know.
This was the era of Idi Amin.
(18:24):
I was in Ethiopia, best buddieswith the Ugandan ambassador to
Addis.
He had got word that he wasbeing considered to be the next
foreign minister.
Well, the first two foreignministers under Amin had ended
up in the Murchison Falls ascrocodile bait.
(18:44):
Okay, so he said, well, if I'mnamed, I'm on the first plane to
London and would you help getmy family and he was named it?
He was gone, you know, and Aminwas the kind of person you
could be in the room with himand he could just look at you
and out of his mind he wouldthink I don't like that person
(19:07):
and you were Jeopardy.
He was a crazy guy.
But anyway, that's the longanswer to your question.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Well, and let's stay on those same lines for a minute
.
Not having the modernconveniences, not having GPS,
all that good stuff, crossingborders, which was tricky just
because of governments andthings.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Did you have any moments where you had fear or
you were scared or were theremoments like that that crept in?
The first half of the trip wasfrom Egypt to Ethiopia.
I'd lived and worked inEthiopia, so I got a measure of
the continent.
Not that Ethiopia is the sameas the rest of the continent,
it's not but I got a measure ofhow you go about your business.
(19:55):
You don't act the bigpharyngeal, you don't try to
lord it over people.
You know when to be notsubservient, but just to be
humble.
And this held me in good steadand us both in good stead the
rest of the way south.
Because, yeah, there weretricky times.
(20:19):
But from Ethiopia on down toSouth Africa, we had a hidden
weapon, a one-year-old towhead,and Kevin was born in Ethiopia.
The first half of the trip, nochildren.
Then, whoops, somethinghappened, too much time
somewhere.
And then Kevin came along andhe ingratiated himself because
(20:44):
he was he was a towhead.
He had snow white hair, blueeyes, you know, and in many
places this was not seen veryoften by those people you know,
and they were entranced by him,and so he opened a lot of doors
to us.
But I think it was justtreating people as you would
(21:06):
like to be treated yourself andnot acting, the big shot that
gets you a long way, youmentioned Kevin.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you get to Ethiopia and you spent some time
in Ethiopia before continuingsouth.
Kevin comes along.
And how old was Kevin when youstarted the journey south?
Would you say one year old?
Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
He celebrated his first birthday at a nature park
in Nairobi, kenya, the firstpart of the trip.
He was like 10 months.
I don't want anyone sayingchild abuse, child no, no, no,
no, no.
There's a well in the back ofthe camper where my wife first
(21:47):
lined it with foam rubber andthen put blankets down and the
whole thing In the first fivemiles.
Kevin fell down, once in there,padded and everything didn't
hurt himself and he learned tohang on.
It's amazing what they can dowith that age.
It was duck soup, it really was.
(22:09):
And my wife now former wife Ican't say enough about Suzanne.
She took wonderful care of usand in so many cases where I had
just about given up well, thisis the end of the trip.
Then she came up with aningenious way for us to continue
.
Let me give you an example.
Jake, we're in Aswan and we hadto board the Aswan Queen.
(22:35):
Well, if you've ever seen mybook, you'll see a picture of
the Ask One Queen which is kindof like a couple of garbage
scouts put together.
But we had to get our camperonto one area to carry it down
to Wadi Halfa, or up now to WadiHalfa, okay.
Well, we get to it and it's gota stanchion across the top and
(22:59):
I'm stuck and I said we can'tget on.
The stanchion can't be moved,they won't move it, but we can't
get on.
This is my non-technical brainat work here.
Suzanne just looks and she sayswell, wait a minute, we just
take a little bit of air out ofeach tire.
What Too much, because we don'twant to be on flat tires.
(23:24):
A little bit slid right under,you see.
So it took two of us, it tookher acumen and when it came to
technology and all that, andthen I think humbly, I say I'm a
people and that kind of helpedus a lot of times as well.
So we're a good combination.
But we didn't get in the way ofeach other.
(23:46):
We let the other's strengthcome forth.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Great example.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But it was just a series of serendipities, jake.
It was a series ofserendipities that just kept us
going further and further andfurther south, and to the point
where, after living in Ethiopiafor three years, I just go the
rest of the way south collectingall the, not only the visas and
(24:13):
everything.
But we had to have what theycall a carne de passage, had to
have what they call a carnet depassage, and that's where you
are telling the country in whichBridget is entering that you
will.
If you sell her there, then youwill pay all the taxes and yada
, yada, yada, and that's theonly way that they will allow
(24:37):
you to bring the car into thatcountry.
You know, you get all thatsquare the way, but a lot of it
is.
You've got to be savvy, becausea lot of the visas are only
good for a certain amount oftime.
You can't lollygag, say, inTanzania, and then show up at
the Malawi border and your visais out of date, you know,
(24:58):
because that just doesn't work.
As long as you have all yourpaperwork scrupulously in order,
you're fine.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Keep that paperwork in order.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, and I think it works that way in a lot of
things, right.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Absolutely.
I want to ask another thingabout Kevin, because here you
are traveling with yourone-year-old son.
I read somewhere that youcalled him the goodwill
ambassador and you mentioned heopened doors for you.
Do you have an example of howhe did that or how he was an
ambassador opened a door for you?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
One of the most poignant stories and I called
the chapter the oneness of love.
We're looking for a place oneday to have lunch and with a
little privacy.
Not that, you know, we didn'twant to see anyone, it was just
to be nice, just to have a placefor quiet and not have anyone.
Well, you've really learned inAfrica you can be out in the
(25:53):
middle of nowhere and we got thecamper top up and Suzanne's got
Kevin in the jerry pack andshe's doing lunch and you just
get this feeling, hmm, someone'swatching us.
And then you look and this isvery respectful and no harm,
there's this ring of peoplewatching you.
(26:15):
There was this one area that waspopulated by the Dinka ethnic
group.
They're tall, extremely dark,they're nilotic people, herders,
pastoralists.
Anyway, she had a baby aboutthe same size as Kevin.
She was fascinated and she gotcloser and closer, was
(26:45):
fascinated and she went closerand closer.
And you know, kevin and Suzanne, they had this instinct.
There's nothing to be afraid ofhere.
She came closer and closer andthen she reached out her hand
and so lovingly just touchedKevin's hair and his face, you
know, because maybe you've neverseen someone like him before,
you know.
And then the two of them changebabies and people always say to
(27:08):
me well, why didn't you take apicture?
This was back in talking aboutthese electronic Tevin's.
This was back of the SLR days,you know.
Okay, wait, a minute, standstill, I've got to get the
S-stop done, or nowadays youjust take a couple of
surreptitious, you know, cellphone photos, right?
No, and I just I say to peopleI didn't want to spoil the
(27:30):
moment, it was touching, it wasso touching and it just showed
us this is the humanity of man.
Yes, she's dark with her baby,white her baby, but they changed
them because they would neverdo anything to harm the other
(27:51):
baby, you know, and so that wasvery so.
So that was.
That was one, one example of ofhow he opened doors.
I mean, I could give you otherones, but that was like we're in
Lesotho.
There's another picture in thebook where he's trying on one of
the conical hats which aretraditional Lesotho hats.
(28:11):
All the young ladies camearound and were just so
fascinated to see this littlebaby and was just so fascinated
to see this little baby.
He was walking by that time andtrying on this hat and we got
to meet their relatives andwhatever.
He was an entree and he justhad this sense.
He wasn't afraid.
They showed him no malice, hehad no reason to be afraid.
(28:36):
Time and time again he was ourentree to always good things.
These are great examples.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
When you think about your time in Africa, what's
something about the real Africathat you feel maybe modern
travelers or people today missout on or don't quite understand
.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I have no animus or anyone against the safaris.
I have no animus or anythingagainst the Safaris, but it's a
kind of a homogenized look atthe continent.
Yes, you're going to see allthe animals and all the people,
but there's always a change inmy mind and maybe I'm biased of
(29:17):
the Mondo County, the excitingoh, you know, deepest, darkest
Africa of Lord Stanley and DavidLivingston and Mondo Park and
the rest of them.
A lot of people think thatAfrica is all jungle.
No, the vast amount of Africais savanna and you've got the
iconic acacia trees, oh, andyou've got the iconic acacia
(29:41):
trees, oh, and boy can they ripup your tires.
That's another story.
They all think it's like theCongo jungle.
It is not.
Yes, there are vast areas of it, but there's also vast areas
and our travels, I would say weonly touched on the jungle, part
of it, maybe for two or threedays, because if you look down
(30:06):
the spine where we went, it'sall savannah.
It's all savannah, beautiful,but it's not what everybody
thinks.
As I wrote in one of thechapters, we were in the part of
the Congo, just a little bit ofit, right next to Uganda, and I
expected to hear ah Taizan, youknow, swinging from branch to
(30:28):
branch with Jane, because it hadthat feel.
If you read that chapter itwill give you a feel that you
know you were in the jungle thesmells, the craters, the
butterflies, the animals thatyou couldn't see.
You could just hear off in thedistance the hoots of the
monkeys and whatever that gaveyou the feel of the tropical,
(30:51):
the forest, the jungle, africa.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
But most of the time it was savanna, kind of staying
on that same line jungle,savannah, different spots.
Were there any parts of thistrip that was just like
awe-inspiring whether it's thevista or whether it was an
experience, any things like thatthat you could share Well?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
in one of the chapters, jake, I go through my
top 10 views of Africa.
I go through my top 10 views ofAfrica.
We had to drive the desert roadcoming from Alexandria to Cairo
because the agricultural roadwas being used to park Egyptian
MiGs so the Israelis couldn'tbomb them, so that was off
(31:36):
limits.
But we're just driving along.
We come up over a rise andthere are the pyramids, and they
were off in the distance, I'mnot saying we could reach out
and touch, they're probablymiles away, but just it still
brings chills and we just notsupposed to stop.
But we we had to stop and justview it and I knew the pictures
(31:59):
wouldn't turn out because theywere so far away.
And that was.
That was probably number one.
Number two victoria falls on lowwater.
Low water because if you gohigh water you don't see
anything because the mist,thrown up by the millions of
gallons of water just tumbling300 feet, forming the border
(32:22):
between Zambia and what was thenRhodesia, now Zimbabwe.
There's one spot where theprevailing winds bring the mists
and it's like a small jungle inthe middle of dry, barren
acacia.
And you are given like bootsand you are given like boots and
you're given, uh, slickers andand a hat, because if you stand
(32:46):
there long enough you're gonnaget soaked.
It's like a not even a mile,probably 200 square feet, where
the just, the winds take it allthe time, the mists from from
the falls there and the noiseeven at low water.
It's just and you could.
(33:06):
We knew we were getting close tothem, five miles away, because
you can hear them chile, manjaro, the tallest freestanding
mountain in the world, and justsitting in Amboseli National
Park, and we've got our coolones out there and we're sitting
there and we get out in front,you've got the zebras, and then
(33:30):
off on one side, against theskyline, a herd of elephants,
and then Killer Manjaro up aheadof you and you say it can't get
much better than this.
You know, this is amazing, youknow.
And then lots of other ones,just enough to keep you
interested in looking around thenext bend, because there's
(33:50):
always something Looking back,because this was, you know, 50
years ago, 50 plus years ago.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
how has this trip shaped who you are today?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I wouldn't have done it any differently.
I think that the reason thatwe're successful and I won't say
unscathed, because that kind ofputs a pejorative on it.
But if I could go back 50 years, I'd do it all again and I
probably wouldn't change a thing, because the matrix was just
(34:18):
right.
Kevin was there.
He's now 55, and he still can'tbelieve that we put him through
this and he survived.
The continent is a differentplace today, I'd say the average
folk and I write this in thebook we're in the outback of
(34:39):
Ethiopia Came across this familyin their little tukul, which is
around their home.
We got to talking to them andthey invited, as did most
Africans.
They will give you half of whatthey don't have.
And it was some sort of a wat,which is Ethiopian for stew.
We were eating it and it was afew crunchy bits and Suzanne
(35:04):
didn't want to eat it and I saidto her hey, you eat it, it's
been boiled, it's not going tokill you, it's probably sort of
chewy.
Anyway, we got to talking.
I knew a smattering of English.
I had a little bit ofKichinamharic at that point.
That's a national language.
(35:25):
Through stops and starts I gotfrom him what most people want
in their life.
They wanted three square mealson the table for their children,
they wanted as littlegovernment intrusion in their
life and they didn't want theirchildren to be shipped off to
(35:47):
die in some foreign war.
Well hello, you know again thehumanity of man.
I can identify with that,regardless of your politics.
I mean these are visceralthings that are inculcated in
most people that they want fortheir family.
I want best, better for myfamily.
You know, as he did, and Ilearned time and time again in
(36:12):
just getting down and talking topeople, not just traveling
through the continent, butstopping and talking to people.
You learn a lot, even thoughyou know English is not so good
and, of course, my Swahili isnon-existent, apart from
Jambabwan, asante San, you know,and whatever.
(36:34):
From fits and starts you kindof get a sense that these are
good folks.
Their socioeconomic situationmight be different, that's all
right.
But if you meet them on theirlevel again, getting back to
what I said if you meet them ontheir level and don't play the
big I am, then you're going toget a lot more from them.
(36:56):
Many, many times.
You'll see one picture in there.
You'll see us mired on thehighway between Addis and Kenya,
which is now a paved road, butthis will show you, was this
thick black seacoast soil and weneeded people to push us
through because we were stuck.
(37:19):
Villagers would come out.
They thought it was great funand try to give them anything.
No, no, no, no, no, no, we'lljust help you.
You know, fording rivers, okay,I had to have a guy.
It was just deep enough.
Think no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
(37:40):
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Rubber hose and I stuck it overthe exhaust pipe and he stood on
the back bumper holding thepipe up and across I went.
Could I give him anything?
No, no, no, part of the fun.
Yeah, we made a lot of the tripon our own, as we say in
(38:02):
Australia, savvy, whatever, buta lot of it was with an immense
amount of goodwill and help fromthe locals we met along the way
.
You know, as long as we metthem at their level, in the term
Okay, you've alluded to it.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Well, you've mentioned it a few times the
book.
Tell me about the book, whatinspired you to write it?
And I think it just came outrecently.
I think it came out in May, soit's been 50 some years since
this adventure.
What inspired you to do this?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I've written a couple of other books and I mentioned
them only because there was onecommon thread as you get to be
my age, in nearing 84, and youwant your not your legacy, but
you want your children,grandchildren,
great-grandchildren, to have asense of, maybe, what you did in
(38:56):
your life, not to make it anybig deal.
So, getting to this bookBeneath the African Sun, it
started out as okay, back in theday, I'll get behind my
typewriter and type out 20 or 30pages and go down to the local
(39:18):
Kinko's or Staples and staple ittogether and then put a cover
on it, and then I'll make 20 or30 copies and hand it out to my
family and whatever.
And then my daughter and sonsaid, oops, I think this might
make a book.
Yeah, okay, well, I keptputting it off because it was
(39:41):
such a major thing.
But then about four years ago Isaid no, I've got to get into
this because I'm not getting anyyounger.
So I started, chapter bychapter, piecing it together,
and when I look at all the workthat we put in and then finding
the, going through the 5,000slides and picking 39 from that
(40:01):
and placing them and, of course,getting the proper editors and
having a fantastic publishingassistant, amanda Miller.
She's amazing, she has thetechnical know-how.
That was my biggest challenge,jake.
It was not the words, it's thetransmission of that In today's
(40:23):
Collins, and I haven't had aclue.
So she's helped me.
I couldn't have done it withouther.
It started as just a very, verysmall project and it just
mushroomed, just grew and grewand grew.
And then I started lookingthrough journals remembering
(40:45):
funny incidents, not so funnyjournals remembering funny
incidents, not so funny whatever.
And then the idea of a fullblown book started to make sense
to me.
Just took it a step at a time.
You know we have the Africansaying how do you eat an
elephant ear sandwich A bite ata time?
And that's how I did it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Seriously, just a bite at a time.
And here you are at 84 yearsyoung, and you got it done.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, it's a wonderful sense of
accomplishment, would not beremiss in saying that.
When I saw it actuallypublished and out on the various
channels internet channels Ished a tear because I never
really thought that I knew Icould do it.
(41:33):
I've been a writer all my life.
It was could I do it?
At my age I did it, and nowI've got another one that I'm
thinking about.
So we did a Suzanne and myselfdid a transcontinental journey
around Australia in a camper,and so I've taken, I wrote a lot
(41:55):
of chapters at the time and soI think, look, you got to keep
going, jake, you got to keepgoing.
You know?
I mean, yeah, that's what, ifyou're a writer, you're a writer
.
If you're a podcaster likeyourself, you got to keep going.
Man, you know.
And sometimes people say to mewell, how many copies have you
sold?
(42:15):
I don't know.
You see, that's never been thegoal, seriously, and I'm not
joking with you.
I'm not joking with you and I'mgratified with the number that
it is, and it's number one on alot of bestseller lists too.
That's humbling and I'm happilylooking at that, but it's
(42:38):
really not as long as it's inthe hands of my family and my
good friends.
I have to tell you this, jake,as quick my publisher's
assistant wonderful neverdisagrees with me.
Well, when she saw how manyfree books I was buying, she
said Barry, the idea is to sellthese books, just give it away.
(42:59):
This is the way I am.
I know it sounds like I'm thebig I am, because this harkens
back to my original intent.
It was not to make a lot ofmoney.
If that be the case, great,take it.
But if not, you've done it andthe friends who mean something
(43:21):
to me and my family and mychildren nine grandchildren well
then, they'll pass it along andmaybe they'll know more about
the continent, maybe go back,and if they go back, they'll go
back with the proper spirit, ifthat Africa is still has any
semblance of what I encountered.
(43:43):
You know, people are people,are people, jake.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Thank you for sharing that because it's inspiring to
me as a podcaster and I've beendoing it for three and a half
years now I don't want to stopeither, because I people like
you who tell me your story andyour journey.
It's inspiring to me and Idon't want to see that end.
So I appreciate you sharingthat and it just kind of got me
all motivated again.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
So thank you for that no, I mean, and I would say to
you, as I've said to the otheryoung people that I've talked to
, just hang in there and don'tgive up, Because if it's a labor
of love, as I tell my couple ofgranddaughters who are runners,
one with the University ofVirginia and one doing very well
(44:26):
in high school, I said just runwith passion and joy.
If you've got passion in yourlife, you've got it all.
And I think that I have apassion for Africa, not with
rose-colored glasses on.
I realize that there'ssituations there.
I realize that there'ssituations there.
(44:47):
But having rubbed shoulders thelength of the continent with
people Muslim, Christian,animist doesn't matter, whatever
the language, they're goodfolks if you give them half the
opportunity to be good folks.
And so I would just say toyoung broadcasters like yourself
don't give up, man, Just keepat it as long as you enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Absolutely.
I love it.
No signs of me stopping anytimesoon, and it's because of
people like you.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
And I've listened to a couple of them and that's why
I was excited to come on withyou, because you're good and I
can tell that you're interestedin your subject.
You're not just doing it forthe sake of doing it.
Say, well, I'm a podcaster.
Well, you know, and I can sense.
I can sense passion, as Ialways said to my broadcasters
(45:40):
at the Voice of America before Isaid look, I can teach you my
technique, I can teach you howto speak from the diaphragm.
But I said I can't open up thetop of your head and pour in a
pound of passion.
You have to bring that to thetable.
And if you bring that to thetable, then you'll be successful
(46:00):
.
It may not be overnight, butyou will be successful, you know
, and so you know I love peoplelike yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yourself, really well , thank you, appreciate that.
You're 84 now.
What are the plan?
Any other plans?
You said you might writeanother book.
You ever plan to go back toafrica.
What are some of the plans?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
well, I I retired early from the voice of america
in 2000, so I've, in the last 25years I've been writing, wrote
a couple of the books, one beingabout my mom growing up in
Australia, so they know thatpart of the heritage.
I've done a series of old oneminute segments of old songs
(46:42):
that I broadcast for a Scottishradio station, rivety Radio.
I did that for two or threeyears.
What else I love?
To email.
I like to keep in contact withsome colleagues a few that are
remaining around the world, andwe like to get on and chat and I
(47:07):
just love talking to people.
I love communications.
I truly believe if there wasmore communications and travel
among people, we'd have far lessof the problems that we have
today.
Because if you understandpeople like I I don't understand
all the people of Africa, Imean, you can't just generalize
(47:30):
like that but if you get a senseof traveling the world and I've
visited 63 countries and workedin 41, not for a long time, but
enough to kind of get a sensethat folks are, folks, are folks
I just want to keep doing that.
I just want to keep reachingout to people in any way I can,
(47:51):
inspiring, if I can like, withyou and other people that I talk
to, because I like to seepassion in any form, and it
doesn't have to be somethingthat I identify.
If you're passionate aboutmathematics which I'm a gold at
Great, I can still sense it theway you talk about it, you see.
(48:12):
So, yeah, I'm just going tocontinue to do that until the
curtain comes down.
Who knows how long that'll be.
I've lived a good life.
I've been very happy with mylife.
I've taught a lot ofjournalists and they're
continuing to spread the word.
I was fortunate enough to get alot of publicity.
(48:34):
I was one of four journalistsembedded in Ethiopia who covered
the entire coup that broughtdown Emperor Haile Selassie a
coup that brought down EmperorHaile Selassie.
And then I was one of the fewjournalists up in Wallow
Province to cover the droughtand subsequent famine, where
(48:55):
hundreds of thousands of peopledied, and I was able to, through
words, start bringing that tothe world.
And then Jonathan Dimbleby ofthe BBC came in with the power
of television.
I've been in the midst of somepretty good stories.
I just like to continue toreach out to communicators
(49:15):
wherever I find them and justgive them encouragement and help
in any way I can, because Ineeded people's help along the
way, and that's the problem.
A lot of folks, when they makeit, they pull the ladder up
behind them and you can't dothat.
You have to continue toremember how you got there, and
(49:38):
I had a lot of help in gettingwhere I took advantage of it the
proper way, but I still had thehelp and I just want to
continue to give that back.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Barry, this has been just amazing for me to get to
know you, who you are, youradventure through Africa and
just in life in general.
I mean, you've had a lot ofadventures, not just with Africa
but a lot of places.
My final question for you whatdoes adventure mean to Barry?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
My final question for you what does adventure mean to
Barry?
Searching for the here to, forunknown.
Adventure is not being afraidof what's around the next bend.
Adventure is a willingness toembrace whomever you meet.
(50:27):
Adventure is always seekingthat next horizon.
Adventure is loving whoever youcome in contact with.
Adventure is of the heart.
Adventure is born in you.
(50:50):
That's not to say you can'tborn in you, or that's not to
say you can't acquire it.
But I think a lot of peoplehave more of that adventure
spirit and I just thank goodnessthat my first wife, suzanne,
had that same adventurous spirit, because if I've asked 100
women, would they do the samething that Suzanne did?
(51:13):
No, well, they said more thanthat.
But no, are you kidding me?
What You're crazy.
I was fortunate that myadventurous spirit coincided and
coalesced with Suzanne's.
It's just wanting to know whatother people are about and
(51:37):
learning their proclivities, andlearning what they like and
what they dislike, and not beingafraid to open your mouth and
say hi, and good things can comeout of that.
That's where the next adventureis.
It's just the next words out ofyour mouth.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Barry, thank you so much for coming on Journey with
Jake.
Oh, jake.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I couldn't be happier .
You've got your craft down andI can only wish you the very,
very best.
And anyone who would like moreBeneath the African Sun.
My website's BarryMorn.
All one wordB-A-R-R-Y-M-A-U-G-H-A-Ncom.
That's over with.
(52:19):
I've given the plug, but I'mtruly, truly I'm proud to plug
this book.
As any author will say, I canguarantee you that you will come
away with a better, morecleaner understanding of what
(52:42):
the true Africa hopefully istoday but was 50 years ago, and
if I have accomplished that,then that's all I want.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
A big thank you to Barry Maughan for sharing his
incredible story and giving us aglimpse into what it was like
to travel across Africa morethan 50 years ago.
If you want to dive deeper intoBarry's journey, be sure to
visit BarryManncom that'sB-A-R-R-Y-M-A-U-G-H-A-Ncom,
where you can purchase his bookBeneath the African Sun and
(53:16):
learn more about his adventures.
Thank you so much, barry.
If this episode resonated withyou, please take a moment to
share Journey with Jake with afriend.
Leave a rating or review andhelp spread these amazing
stories of resilience,exploration and personal growth.
Your support truly makes adifference.
And don't miss next week'sepisode with the inspiring
(53:37):
Makela Leeper.
We'll explore her world ofcompetitive swimming and
coaching and talk about howadventure and purpose show up
even at a young age.
It's a refreshing reminder thatyou're never too young or too
old to embrace the journey.
And just remember it's notalways about the destination as
it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
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