August 21, 2025 • 51 mins
#174 - What does redemption look like at 72 years old? For Rand Timmerman, it meant lacing up his hiking boots and tackling the Appalachian Trail's 2,190 miles alongside his grieving brother—a journey that would test his newfound sobriety, physical limits, and spiritual foundation.
Rand's path to that trailhead was anything but straight. Growing up in poverty after his father contracted polio, he discovered alcohol at 13 and was immediately transformed in his own mind from a skinny teenager to "Clint Eastwood." After impulsively enlisting during Vietnam, where both he and his brother served as helicopter gunners, Rand built a successful 40-year legal career while battling what many would call "functional alcoholism." Meanwhile, his brother Ronnie found faith, becoming a Mormon bishop and building a large blended family—until his wife's death left him shattered and seeking healing in nature.
The brothers' epic hike across 600 mountains became much more than a physical challenge. For Rand, who had found sobriety just years earlier after hitting rock bottom at 65, it was the culmination of a spiritual awakening. "I was standing on a mountain in New Jersey," he recalls, "feeling spiritual power all around me, and I realized God made all of that and I never saw it before." Despite artificial knees, infections, and countless falls, Rand completed 1,863 miles before injuries forced him to stop.
Today, Rand walks eight miles daily and dedicates hours to helping others overcome addiction. His message is beautifully simple: "Just don't drink today, no matter what." His book "A Spiritual Passage" captures both the breathtaking landscapes and inner transformation of a man who discovered it's never too late to surrender to something greater and find purpose in helping others along the same path.
To learn more about Rand and get a copy of his book please visit www.randtimmerman.com.
Want to be a guest on Journey with Jake? Send me a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/journeywithjake
Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind. Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.
Visit geneticinsights.co and use the code "DISCOVER25" to enjoy a sweet 25% off your first purchase.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At 72 years old, rand Timmerman laced up his boots
not just to hike the AppalachianTrail, but to walk with his
brother in a journey of healing,redemption and unshakable
brotherhood.
After battling addiction andfinding sobriety, rand
discovered that the trail wasn'tjust about the miles.
It was about being present,carrying each other's burdens
(00:20):
and rediscovering purpose onestep at a time.
This is a story of secondchances, deep faith and the kind
of love that shows up mileafter mile.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
(00:40):
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will feature adifferent guest or guests, as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
(01:03):
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination as it is about
the journey.
(01:29):
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
I'm your host, jake Bushman.
If you're new here, make sureto follow me on Instagram at
journeywithjakepodcast andsubscribe to the show so you
never miss an episode.
You can also watch fullconversations over on my YouTube
channel Just search for Journeywith Jake.
And a special shout out to thePodmatch Podcast Network for
helping me connect withincredible guests like today's.
(01:51):
Today we continue that theme oftransformation and trust in
something greater.
Rand Timmerman's story is areminder that, no matter our age
or past, it's never too late tolean on a higher power and
choose a better path Fromaddiction and heartache to
healing and faith.
Rand's journey is both humblingand inspiring.
If this episode speaks to you,be sure to check out episode 138
(02:13):
with Dave Leatherfly, a storyfilled with similar themes of
surrender, spiritual awakeningand the beauty of embracing
life's deeper purpose.
Let's get to my conversationwith Rand Timmerman.
This is fun for me because I'vegot Ran Timmerman joining me
today, and Ran and I had alittle issue before.
We couldn't.
We had a little technicaldifficulty the other day, but I
always know the episode is goingto be really good.
(02:35):
Whenever I have a troublegetting somebody on and we kind
of have some issues.
I know when I finally get themon, it's going to be an awesome
episode, so I'm super excited.
Ran, thank you for coming.
Thanks for being on Journeywith Jake.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes, sir.
Thank you so much, jake, andthanks for your patience.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, no problem, it's all part of the fun, ran
it's.
You know, it's what we do.
Technology is, there's a lot, Idon't know.
I think you and I were bothsaying I'm like man, I probably
(03:09):
figure it out, I couldn't figureit out, you couldn't figure it
out, but then you got it figuredout.
So we're here, we are, we'rehere together.
This is going to be great.
We're going to talk a lot aboutthis journey along the
Appalachian trail that you didwith your brother in your
seventies, I might add.
I think you were 71.
He was 70, something like that.
You were 72.
Okay, very good, all right,some two, even older, which that
in and of itself is amazingthat you're in your 70s, because
it's you know, it could be astrenuous hike, especially if
you're through hiking, kind oflike what you did.
We're going to touch a lot onthat.
Before we get into that, though, I kind of want to know just a
(03:31):
little bit about your background, kind of where you grew up,
where you're from, and kind offamily life growing up, if you
don't mind.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Sure, yeah, I grew up in upstate New York, almost
into Canada, on the east side ofthe, you know, lake Ontario.
My dad was a Mustang pilot inWorld War II and he came home
and married my mom and had meand my brother and he got polio.
He ended up in a hospital for ayear, eight months in an iron
lung and, and when he came outhe was paralyzed from the waist
(04:06):
down.
So what that meant was poverty.
We had a really hardscrabblelife in a very kind of
hardscrabble place and I hadgreat upbringing.
We were surrounded by farms.
I started working on farms whenI was 12 years old.
I could drive a tractor andback up a trailer full of hay
and do all kinds of stuff, so inthat way it was really great.
(04:26):
But we were poor and I hatedthat.
But I did well in school.
I was kind of a rock star.
I was a miler, I was a goodrunner, Set a school record that
lasted for about 10 years Iguess, Went off to college with
no money.
I was a pin setter in a bowlingalley, among other jobs.
(04:47):
I worked as a janitor frommidnight to eight o'clock in a
high school and I was just, ohmy God, struggling.
And I loved alcohol.
I drank at 13 and I becameClint Eastwood man.
I was like I'm the guy.
I'm five foot eight, 110 pounds, but in my mind, I'm plenty of
stuff, right.
That first go around.
I'll never forget it.
(05:08):
So I knew alcohol couldprobably be a problem someday
and so I struggled in collegeand with money and stuff and
then got drunk one night in abar not far from the bowling
alley where I work.
Next morning the owner came inand turned on the radio I'm
laying on.
I slept all night and passedout on the pool table.
The owner came in, turned onthe radio I'm laying on.
I slept all night.
I passed out on the pool table.
The owner came in, turned onthe radio and they were talking
(05:29):
about first marine divisiongoing into Vietnam.
And I sat up on that pool tableand looked at that bartender
and well, he was the owner ofthe bar and he looked at me and
I walked out that door and Inever looked back.
A month later I'm at the warmemorial in Syracuse, new York,
york, pledging to serve mycountry against all enemies,
foreign and domestic, and ninemonths later I'm standing in a
rice paddy going.
I think I made a big mistake.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Wow, that's a lot of stuff that you had happen to you
Struggling at college and notstruggling, just you know,
financially like how do I get byIn the meantime?
You're drinking like crazy.
So you sign up kind of on awhim, you enlist.
You weren't even drafted, thenyou enlisted.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, I enlisted.
It was the French ForeignLegion.
For me I didn't drink a lotbecause I didn't have any money,
but when I drank, I got drunk.
The founder of the recoveryprogram that I am in 1940, wrote
about most.
If you're a real alcoholic, youprobably had a hard time making
decisions unless you were drunk.
Or the other way he put it wasmost alcoholics come up with
their best ideas when they'redrunk.
(06:29):
That's what he would tell hiswife.
I had that going.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, my brother was over there.
He enlisted in the army.
He was down by Chula.
I was up in I-Corps in thenorthernmost province.
We were both machine gunners onhelicopters.
It was not together or anythinglike that.
I mean he was a totallydifferent world from what I was
in.
But it was pretty bad the lastcouple of months.
They made me a Mustanglieutenant.
The lifespan of an infantrylieutenant in Vietnam was not
(06:59):
good.
So when I left they said well,you can go back to being a
corporal or you can go to OCS,officer Kennedy School.
So I went to Officer KennedySchool so that they couldn't
take away my commission and makeme, you know, a grunt anymore.
And then I went into the airwing.
I had a gunnery sergeant whowas a friend of mine.
He was my drill instructor inboot camp.
(07:20):
He was a gunnery sergeant whenI was in Vietnam.
They made him a Mustanglieutenant.
When I got to Cherry Point, mynew duty station, after all my
officer training, he's theofficer of the day, he's a
captain.
He said where do you want to go?
And I said I don't know what doyou got.
He said well, he's rallying offthese schools.
And he said Rhode Island.
(07:45):
I said Rhode Island.
I've never been to Rhode Island.
What's that?
He says JAG school.
So I went off to JAG schooljudge, advocate general, to be a
legal officer in the UnitedStates Marine Corps.
Right, I get over there.
The class is a hundred peoplemen, actually, all men me, a
second lieutenant, right, and 99captain, real live lawyers
graduated from law school.
They're, all you know, legit,right.
(08:06):
I may have been the lastnon-college educated, non-lawyer
JAG officer in the Marine Corps.
I was told that at a 50thanniversary thing that I went to
, but anyway, 20 of us rented amansion.
It was the off season, they allwant to party and for whatever
reason, jake, I said to myselfyou know what?
(08:27):
I'm not going to drink duringthe week, I'm going to just work
at this.
I ended up being the honor man,I got the highest score, pissed
them all off.
So I get back to the Mass 1 atthe Cherry Point Marine Corps
Air Base and they make me I'mthe legal officer, they make me
defensive guys.
Well, I defended a guy that wassleeping on watch, which is
(08:49):
almost impossible.
You know, that's prison timeright in the Marine Corps.
It's serious business.
So I came up with some witnessand anyway he got acquitted by
colonels, majors and lieutenantcolonels.
Right Officers are the jury inmilitary trials.
I had another one and so thenthey decided to make me
prosecutor so I wouldn't get anymore people off.
(09:13):
Basically, I guess my friendwould send me down to Puerto
Rico every few months to doArticle 32, type of trial down
there.
We had a base down there, it'scalled Roosevelt Roads.
Finally I came back from one ofthose and every time I went I
was on the list to go back toVietnam as a forward observer
right, not the greatest.
I come back and I said Dale, Idon't understand why I'm not
(09:33):
going to Vietnam.
He says you stupid son of a gun, why do you think I keep
sending you down to Puerto Rico?
You go back to Vietnam you'regoing to get killed, there's no
questions about it.
You've had too many, you knowclose calls.
So I had a guardian angel inthe Marine Corps, believe it or
not, but anyway it set me on alife course to be an attorney.
So I got married, I had onegirl, and then I came back to
(09:57):
Syracuse and went to college,got my BA, got my law degree,
and I spent 40 years as anattorney.
That's why my BA got my lawdegree and I spent 40 years as
an attorney.
That's why my book it says RandR.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Timmerman Esquire.
Yeah, you got the Esquire there.
Yeah yeah, what a journey.
And I have a few questionsabout that journey.
Okay, so the military MustangLieutenant in other words, it's
almost like a battlefieldcommission, is that kind of what
that is?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's what they call it in the Marine Corps.
Yeah, in World War II theycalled them combat lieutenants.
In other words, you became alieutenant out of necessity.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Out of necessity.
So they needed you to lead agroup and whatever, and they
needed you.
But, like you said, thelifespan wasn't very long.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I'd never put the bars on my collars in combat.
I didn't put them on, I didn'tknow.
I don't have any time right now.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You saw a lot of combat then in Vietnam.
I did, yeah, ptsd, that sort ofthing.
I don't know if it was thatwell known, but I'm guessing Did
that affect you.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, it did Tremendous, and my brother both.
When we came back there was nocomprehensive PTSD hadn't been
invented yet.
You know they call it battlefatigue and other.
You know they knew soldierswere different than in combat.
For myself, you know, I was sodarn busy especially.
(11:11):
I went to college, I wasmarried, I had a kid, I'm
working three jobs because westill don't have enough money to
hardly live on, and I'm reallybusy, busy, busy.
And I kept thinking you know,this is amazing, I don't seem to
have been affected by the warat all.
A lot of my buddies turned intoalcoholics.
Some of them died suicide.
I mean, I had some pretty badstories.
One night I had a nightmare, myfirst nightmare about the war,
(11:35):
and I was in bed.
I was in the battle in Vietnam.
I could picture everything.
I was covered with blood, Icould smell everything.
I could smell everything.
I could smell the powder Icould smell.
I had been cut open with abayonet and I was sitting there
trying to put my guts back intome.
And I'm thinking, rand, thistime you're done.
(11:56):
See, I did a mission in Vietnamwhere we ran out of ammo and
the only way I survived was witha bayonet.
So now, five years later, rightFive years later, I have this
nightmare.
It was so real, jake.
It was just andicked the switchup and she's looking at me and
I'm looking at her and we bothknow our lives just changed
tremendously.
(12:16):
I'm not covered with blood, I'mcovered with sweat, I'm
screaming.
(12:36):
I'm not cut open with a bayonet, but I avoided myself.
I am smelling manure and urinebecause I've totally destroyed
our bet.
And I knew at that moment, andthere was no.
You know, you didn't.
The first time I went to the VAwas I was 65 years old.
I went to the VA because theyput me on suicide watch.
See, there was no, there was notreatment for us.
(12:59):
And I can name you.
I won't, of course, but I canname you.
Guys that came back could nothandle it and ended up
committing suicide, eitherdirectly or indirectly, with
alcohol.
And after I had that dream, Istarted using alcohol to
medicate.
At night I put the kids to bed.
You know, my wife would go tobed and I would drink my brains
(13:23):
out for half an hour and then Iwould go to bed and I always got
up really early, four or five.
I was self-employed, I hadpeople working for me, I would
just get up.
So the nightmares if I had themI didn't remember them right,
or sometimes later on it wouldget you know I'd be in
situations where I didn't drinkor whatever and I could divert.
(13:44):
I could feel the nightmarecoming on and I could divert it
in my head or I would wakemyself up and I would just get
up and go to work or dosomething.
But that's how I lived my life.
To this day, I still only sleepabout five hours a night.
Yeah, I have what they callhypervigilance.
You know, walking around thehouse everything's locked.
(14:04):
I still do that.
I was at the va a few monthsago and they were trying to.
They wanted to help me withthat and I said I've been doing
this for 60 years.
I'm 80 years old now.
I'm not going to change whatI've been.
I managed to do this 60 years.
So I'm just going to keep doingwhat I'm doing because it's
working for me, you know and Igot sober 11 years ago.
I got into a recovery programwhen my alcoholism didn't really
(14:26):
kick off until I got into myearly 60s and then all of a
sudden, I just couldn't controlit anymore.
A lot of my friends thought ofme like a functional alcoholic.
It never really affected me atwork.
I didn't miss work, I didn'tyou know, I didn't drink it on
the job or anything like that.
I was a litigator, so I was incourt all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
This is incredible, and this is a huge part of who
you are.
So you were, yeah, some peoplesay a functioning alcoholic, so
to speak, but you were stilldrinking.
And then?
So what happened in yoursixties?
Why, all of a sudden then?
Did it just get out of control,do you think?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Kids are all gone.
I'm married again.
I had relationship problemsfrom the war and abusive alcohol
and bad choices here and there.
Great relationship with my kids, thank God they didn't really
understand.
I had to put myself into arehab 15 years ago because I
knew it was getting out of handand I retired because I had a
(15:20):
really good reputation.
I didn't want to destroy that.
I had never been grieved.
I was a litigator.
That's almost unheard of.
You know I took a lot of pridein my work and I was a hard
worker and all that.
I was a good father and okayhusband but luckily for me and
the problem was I didn't haveany relationship with a higher
power.
Now Ronnie came back from thewar, married our mother's best
(15:41):
friend who was 14 years olderthan him married our mother's
best friend who was 14 yearsolder than him.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She was divorced with seven kids.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Okay, ronnie's your brother.
Right, that's who ronnie is.
Yes, he's the one I hiked thetrail with.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So okay, say that again.
He married your mom's bestfriend edie.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yes, so ronnie comes back from vietnam.
He came back after me and hedid two tours.
Actually, next thing I knowhe's running around with our
mother's best friend, divorcedwith seven kids, and they're
going line dancing and ridingaround a convertible and, oh my
God, she's a good looking ladyand he's got a big grin on his
face.
And he married her and they gotinvolved in the Mormon church,
(16:17):
moved out to Utah.
He became a bishop in theMormon church.
He became a commercial pilot,flew planes for a living.
Edie had a stroke.
By the time Edie had her strokein 2011, they had 27 grandkids
and when she died in 2017,november 17, 2017, they had 27
(16:42):
great grandkids.
I mean, these Mormons like tomarry young and they like to
frolic a lot Big families.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I'm from Utah so I kind of know what that's all
about, so I fit right into thatmold, you know.
I mean, so that's wow, okay.
First of all, this story justin and of itself is great.
Married your mom's best friend.
She's 14 years older than him.
She already had, she wasdivorced with seven kids and wow
(17:11):
Ends up marrying her, moving toUtah, joins Mormon faith, you
know, church of Jesus ChristLatter-day Saints, and wow, so
he okay.
So he had that.
He had the higher power.
You were talking about a higherpower.
It sounds like he was in linewith that, but you weren't.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is that what I'm gathering?
Yeah, no, you've got that 100correct.
Yeah, I loved alcohol.
I already expressed that it didwonderful things for me.
I had a lot of fun for a longtime.
It didn't.
I didn't have any consequencesof any sort.
But if you're a true alcoholic,your body metabolizes.
A lot of people don't realizethis, but the American Medical
Association in 1956 declaredalcoholism a disease.
(17:50):
Well, there's a reason for thatand that is that alcoholics
metabolize alcohol differentlyand our bodies don't process
alcohol the same way it does fornormal drinkers.
So normal drinkers processalcohol.
They get what's called acetoneis the chemical process that
ends up creating acetone.
(18:10):
They don't like that feelingyou know that jittery, whatever
and so they stop right and theydon't think about drinking.
Alcoholics like me.
We start, we get that acetoneand it builds.
That's that feeling that youare thirsty.
Normal people don't sit downand drink 24 beers, right.
An alcoholic sits down, drinks23 beers and he's still thirsty.
(18:32):
He wants another one.
That's why that's me only withme.
At the end it ended up beingvodka and of course I had this
other stuff going on and I wasjust obliterated.
I I knew I was in big trouble.
I retired and I didn't want tohave any repercussions and I
went into full-time recoverymode and I struggled because I
(18:52):
didn't have the God thing andRonnie had that.
You know it's funny, my brother, my younger brother and I he's
a drinker too, right to this day, not crazy, like I was at the
end, but we get together withRonnie and Edie and half of
their kids and grandkids and allthat stuff every year in the
summertime.
Usually one day Marty and Iwould get a good buzz going on.
We'd be mocking the bishopbecause he's so boring.
(19:15):
Look at us, we're having waymore fun than he is.
You know that kind of thing.
I'm not proud of that, butthat's the way it was, you know.
So Ronnie and I didn't havethere was no antagonism or
anything like that, we justweren't close.
So Edie had the stroke and then,unfortunately she didn't get
better, she got worse.
(19:36):
She had a bunch of mini strokesthe last six years of her life.
Ronnie had to take care of her24-7.
He wouldn't let anybody elsetake care of her.
He thought through that process.
You know, being a bishop he'ddone a lot of weddings and
funerals and all kinds of stuffand he thought he was ready, but
it hit him like a thunderbolt.
So I went out the first timeI'd ever been out to his house
in St George and we ended uphiking beautiful hiking places
(19:59):
there.
Now, ronnie had hiked all hislife.
I, ronnie, had hiked all hislife.
I had hiked all my life.
I ran 26 marathons.
So we were in pretty good shape.
But we're not big guys either.
We're not macho men.
We're about 5'8", 175 pounds,just kind of regular guys.
Except we both got that grit,that sort of mindset if we're
(20:21):
going to do something.
If my brother says he's goingto do something, he's going to
do it.
Right.
And he had made up his mind.
He was going to hike theAppalachian Trail and when he
sprung that on me I'm like, ohmy God, because I had hiked in
the Smoky Mountains, I did fakecharges with bears.
You know, combat veterans arekind of crazy in a way.
(20:42):
I rode motorcycles, I flewairplanes, I would go on solo
hikes in the worst places bymyself.
So I had that experience and Ijust knew it was really, really
hard.
So I asked him I said when areyou going to go?
This is January of 2018.
He goes March 22nd.
Well, guess what?
March 22nd we're at SpringerMountain and it's snowing.
(21:05):
We're hiking the AppalachianTrail and when I wrote the book
the first time I took 5,000pictures.
Ronnie didn't take hardly anypictures.
All Ronnie did was marchDaybreak.
I'm going to go from here tothere.
That's it, bang and away.
He went Right.
I was more about.
I'm never walking this wayagain.
(21:26):
Nobody's shooting at me, that'sgood, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I'm just going to kind of have a try to have a
good time here.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I took a ton of pictures.
The ablation trail is beautiful, you know.
You go around a corner and I'm.
I go around a corner andthinking, well, I probably won't
see anything great today.
Oh my god, look at that.
You know, just, it was amazing,but it was also painful.
I I limped, you know.
I had an artificial left knee.
My right knee is a totaldisaster, bone on bones, half
(21:53):
inch shorter from all the traumaI put it through, from vietnam
all the way through all thatrunning without any medial
meniscus.
You know we, we're crazy, jake,I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Wow, at this point, in this point for you, you were,
you were sober at this point,and for getting sober you found
a higher power than you foundGod.
To get sober Is that kind ofwhat helped you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, I got a really good.
I struggled for three and ahalf years.
I ended up in the hospitaltwice on suicide watch.
I ended up in the VA.
I got a ride to the VA inhandcuffs in a state trooper car
because I had made a phone callsaying I think I need help.
So I walked into the VA firsttime at 65 years old in
(22:41):
handcuffs, into a psych wardThree doors to get get in.
It's real easy to get in thosethree doors.
It's a son of a gun to get backout, you know.
And two or three days later I'myeah, they've got me on some
stuff and and I'm not drunkanymore, I'm getting, you know,
my brain's coming back andeverything.
And I realized, oh my god,these people, I'm just a drunk,
(23:04):
these people are crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I mean, they are really really crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
There was a guy there who was a captain in the Army.
He was a company commander inVietnam.
He lost a lot of men.
He was not right, he never gotit.
He didn't make it.
He and I walked the hallwaysthe whole five days.
I bet you we walked 20 miles aday just walking the highways
hallways.
Him and me were locked in.
There was like a big like thisjust talking, talking to each
(23:32):
other.
But he, he, he, he was, he wasnuts.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, that's pretty intense.
So it sounds like to me youfinally you found God.
You were able to get sober.
Meanwhile, your brother, who'salways kind of had God it was
almost as if it was kind of histurn he needed that help.
He needed you now because he'salways kind of been the one
that's had God and but now thathis wife had passed away, that
sounded like it was.
That was a challenge for himand I think is that kind of the
reason he's like I'm going to gohike this trail, just because
he's that was kind of his way ofof mourning, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, so to speak.
Yes, yeah, he felt like he hadto get back into nature and find
a way to put balance back inhis life.
Somehow.
I mean, he's got, he's reallyclose to all the kids and
grandkids, but I don't know.
He just he needed that, youknow, and I, it was lucky, I was
there too, because there weresome moments that, you know, he
really struggled.
He, he woke up screaming onenight.
He was in a really bad placeand he wanted to quit.
And I knew, my brother, youcan't make good decisions in the
(24:29):
dark, in the middle of nightterrors, you just can't.
And I told him, I said, ronnie,just settle down.
We're going to go hike today,like we do every day.
The sun's coming up, it's goingto be a nice day.
If you decide when we meet atnoontime that you don't want to
do this anymore, then I'm I'mokay.
(24:49):
Well, son of a gun, becauseI've been thinking all along
there's no way we're ever goingto do this thing right.
So I'm kind of hoping, jake,I'm just being honest with you.
I was like, if he says we'renot doing this anymore, I'm fine
, like that, right, son, son ofa gun, I need him.
We're having our lunch there.
He doesn't say a word.
So I knew, okay, we're justgoing to keep going.
(25:11):
See, the Appalachian Trail is avery interesting thing.
I like to cover this real quick.
The Appalachian Trail goes fromSpringer Mountain, georgia, to
Katahdin Mountain in Maine.
It's 2,190 miles.
It goes over 600 mountains, 300of them are named.
The elevation changes is465,000 feet up and down, jake.
(25:38):
There were days.
Going up a mountain is hard,right, but you kind of get into
that chug, chug, chug thing andI never stopped on the side of a
mountain going up, never, notonce.
Then you got to go down.
Actually, going down is harder.
Most people don't realize it,but the weight is pushing you.
You got your poles.
It puts a lot of pressure onyour arms and your knees and
(25:58):
then I would be praying oh God,just not literally, but you know
what I'm saying.
Just give me 100 yards flat,just 100 yards flat, I'll be so
happy.
Get down the bottom of themountain, you look there's the
other mountain.
You go flat about 10 feet andthen you start up again.
In Georgia especially, youcould go up and down eight
(26:21):
mountains in one day, some partsof Georgia, yeah, and then
other places.
Once you get into the whites,like in new hampshire, you can
spend all day going, all morninggoing up a mountain and all
afternoon getting down it asbest you can you started in
march.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
How long did you go?
Did you finish that year?
Did you take a?
Come back the next year?
How did this whole, how did itall pan out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
well, that's, yeah, that's a good question, jake.
We had two vehicles.
When I asked my brother, I saidhow are you going to do this?
He said I'm going to take theGreyhound bus down to Springer
Mountain and start walking.
And my brain's going oh, that'snot going to work.
That wouldn't work if you were40, let alone four.
I said well, so he had done alot of studying and he had maps
and stuff.
We started looking at them.
(27:02):
There's a road of some kindgoing across the Appalachian
Trail from one side to the otherevery 10 to 15 miles, except
for in the Smokies.
There's a couple of 35 miles oneach side of Clingman's Dome
and then there's an area calledthe Pre.
So there's some places whereyou got to carry a full pack and
then so we had to.
(27:23):
We took two vehicles.
So the way we did it was likewhen we left Springer Mountain,
ron's oldest son, rick, wentwith us first couple of weeks.
So they drove up around to thenext road park.
They walked South and I walkedNorth and then they got to my
vehicle and then they came backaround and then usually what we
did is we parked right on thetrail wherever we were.
(27:45):
Were I like to brag.
I slept in a tent every night,but most of the time my truck
was right next to it, along withthe bears that would walk by it
in the middle of the night.
That happened, too the firsttime I woke up and there was a
bear like four feet from my tent, because I could see it.
I smelled it before I saw it,wow.
So that's how we did it.
I got a really bad infection.
(28:07):
I have hammer toes and I havefungus on my toes which is still
there from Vietnam.
It's never gone away and I gotan infection and I ended up in
the hospital after the first,when we got to Fontana Dam I
have my daughter lives inKnoxville I ended up in the
hospital anyway.
They gave me quadrupleantibiotics.
After a week I went back and westarted in again.
(28:29):
So we kind of went spurts.
We had two periods.
We went 30 plus days in a row,averaged 11 miles.
I fell every day.
I broke eight poles In 2018, wewent from March 22nd.
I was out that week.
I think we took another week atone point and then we were in
(28:52):
New Jersey.
We had done almost 15,000 milesone day.
It was 100 degrees, 100%humidity.
You're walking 11 miles a dayin the mountains, jake.
I mean that's unbelievable.
It's just try to do it on theflat, you.
A day in the mountains, jake.
I mean that's unbelievable.
It's just try to do it on theflat.
You know you're lucky in themountains if you can do a mile
and a half in an hour non-stop.
(29:13):
We never stopped.
We never stopped.
The younger guys would fly byus and then an hour or two later
that we catch up to them, go bythem then, and then maybe a
couple hours later they fly byagain.
Most of the hikers stopped alot.
We never stopped.
Now Ronnie's always going oneway and I'm going the other, so
we're not hiking together, whichis a good thing, because I
limped.
I can't keep up with themanyway.
(29:34):
So, anyway, this one day wecame out.
We're in New Jersey, hot, oh myGod, and my brother's standing
there with his hands on his hipsand he goes.
You wanna go home?
I said sure.
So that was it for 28.
We had both lost.
We were both down to 155.
You can't possibly eat enoughfood to keep the weight on.
(29:57):
Oh yeah, we looked like.
You know, auschwitz survivorsemaciated?
Oh yeah, we were, if you lookat the pictures.
So then the next year he saiddo you want to try to finish it?
And I said, sure, let's go.
So we went back.
We did pretty good.
I was climbing Mount Wilcox inMassachusetts, which is kind of
(30:20):
a normal regular-sized, a couplethousand-foot mountain.
First part of it was kind ofnormal 10% 15% grade earthen
path.
And then I got up north.
It always gets steeper at thetop and it always turns into
rocks right and there's a rockslide.
Literally I could show you thepicture, jake You'd say there's
no way that's the trail.
(30:41):
And then you look up and yousee the white blaze mark.
That's the trail.
You got to climb up all those.
Sometimes you're hands andknees and everything else.
I'm 10 feet from the top and mypole slipped and I stabbed with
the other one.
If I had just fallen on my faceit would have been fine.
It probably would have littleblood and stuff, but I would
(31:02):
have been fine.
It probably would have, youknow, a little blood and stuff,
but I would have been fine.
No, I have to try to regain mybalance.
I flip around 180 degrees and Iswan, dive off that rock slide
and I closed my eyes because Iknew my brain's going.
This is gonna hurt a lot.
And then when I hit, it was myGod, this is so much worse.
(31:25):
It was the worst pain I everfelt in my whole life.
But then, all of a sudden, Istopped and what I finally
figured out after a couple ofminutes was my foot got wedged
between two rocks.
So that stopped me, otherwise Iwould have been killed for sure
.
I laid there for a while.
I'm all blood my elbows, myarms, my legs, my knees.
(31:45):
Finally, I can't climb backdown.
So I crawled up to the top.
I had gone three miles.
It's nine miles to get to thenext road.
So I started walking.
I don't know if you've everbeen hurt bad, but I have been
hurt bad a lot.
But anyway, at first the painis just incredible, right, but
if you keep going after a whileit just kind of gives you this
(32:05):
warm, really achy thing.
I met my brother and he goeswhat the hell happened to you
and I told him you all right.
Well nobody's going to probablylift me out of there or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So I walked all the way out.
He met me there and then uhwent to bed.
I was really hurt, bad, and uh,next morning I couldn't.
I got out of the tent but Icouldn't get in, so we went home
, turned out I had damaged myhip.
We're kind of tough guys anddidn't really do anything about
it.
Right, and within a few daysI'm walking again and about
(32:44):
three weeks later he goes.
You want to try to finish?
it I said, sure, I did another300 miles.
I ended up doing 1863 miles, Ithink it was.
We got to mount washington.
The weather was bad.
You know what?
Mount washington is right, newhampshire it New Hampshire, okay
.
Yeah, it's the highest mountainin the Northeast.
(33:04):
It gets snow.
It's got the highest recordedwind speed of any mountain in
North America.
It was 243 miles an hour orsomething like that.
Well, yeah, look it up, it is atough, tough mountain, so they
won't let people in there quitea bit of the time.
So we jumped up to Moosilakthat was a big mountain.
And then we did Wolf Mountainand then the next day we took a
(33:28):
break.
We were going to do MountWashington.
The weather had gotten betterand we started out and I was
done.
I was done.
I started crying.
I didn't want to disappoint him, but I said I can't do it bro.
I started crying.
I didn't want to disappoint him, but I said I can't do it, bro,
I can't do it.
You know, I'm down to 150pounds now.
It's, you know, and I'm in alot of pain.
The palm was a pain, it wasjust killing me.
(33:49):
So, anyway, I didn't finish it.
He finished it with his son,rick, and they made it to
Katahdin.
They went through the hundredmile wilderness and all that.
They couldn't climb Katadinbecause they had it closed
because of COVID, can youimagine?
Well, while they were doingthat, I was in the hospital
(34:09):
getting a new hip.
But I still walk eight miles aday.
Every day I walk three milesbefore daylight.
Usually I do a couple more atnoon and a couple more in the
afternoon.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
This story, this journey of yours, was amazing to
hear, so I appreciate yousharing it.
And at the end there you knowwhen you had to stop and you got
emotional about it.
Tell me just overall when youthink back, because I think
about a few things.
I think about what it did foryou personally, but I also think
about what it did for yourbrother.
I know that meant a lot havingyou there with him.
(34:38):
Kind of tell me about you know,your bond with your brother to
this day and just kind of youroverall thoughts and feelings,
because, like I said, you got alittle emotional about it there
at the end and I can see why.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, we kind of pride ourselves if we decide to
do something, to do it, but Icouldn't.
The pain was incredible.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And I can handle 7, 8 .
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I can't handle 10.
I wasn't able to sleep anymoreat night.
The pain was so bad I justcouldn't do it.
You know, and you know thefunny part and I wrote about
this in the book Jake my brotherhad more pain, things going on
with him and I had stuff goingon when we we never talked about
it, we never said to each otherhow are you feeling, are you
okay, bro?
(35:18):
Are you okay bro?
You know, at one point he got awicked bad cramp and it
happened to be when our phoneswere working and he called me.
I was actually ahead of him.
This was one time we were goingin the same direction.
He said I can't walk anymore.
So I dropped my pack and wentracing back with some vinegar,
because vinegar will take careof cramps.
(35:39):
I don't know if you know thator not.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Wow, yeah, it works really good Because otherwise he
wasn't going to make it.
Yeah, we were looking out foreach other.
I did not want to let him down,that's what hurt the worst, but
I just couldn't.
I had to do something about myhip.
It was just bad.
I knew it was bad and things.
You know, I did 20, I did 50kski races every winter when I
(36:03):
couldn't run and you know, Ifigured for a long time I I run
every day for somewhere between3 and 30 miles, or I ski every
day in the winter time somewherebetween 10 and 50 miles, right,
and then I drink my brains out.
Well, I can't possibly be analcoholic if I can do that.
You know, I kind of had thatmindset.
(36:23):
But see, when you can't do allthat stuff anymore, that's when
the alcohol starts to take over.
For guys like me and I'vetalked to a lot of guys in the
program that and I talked aboutit in the book, this is my part
of the spiritual journey wasparticularly about how I got
sober, and then I wrote aboutthat in the book because I
worked with a lot of guys whostruggle, you know, not only
(36:45):
with alcohol but other thingsself-esteem and depression and
all kinds of things.
I don't promote it or anythinglike that, but I have found that
some people, if they get achance, you know, have an
opportunity to read it, word ofmouth or whatever amazing things
can happen, because theyrealize, look, if this guy can
get sober at 68, a scumbag likehim and then he can go and do
(37:10):
this stuff and write books andtalk to people all the time and
be a speaker at meetings andhave a vibrant, joyful life.
See, that's where theinspiration comes in, that's
what, that's what fulfills me.
I tell guys every day.
I work with guys every singleday and a lot of them are brand
new and they're struggling andhaving all kinds of problems.
(37:30):
And I say, and I'll look atthem and say you know, you're
helping me more than I'm helpingyou, and they go what are you
talking about?
You've been sober for 11 plusyears.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's so true what you're saying and hearing your
story it's helping me.
I mean, I'm being inspired andmotivated by it.
And you mentioned the book.
Tell me the name of the book,what it's called, if you don't
mind.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So everyone knows.
Yeah, no, it's a spiritualpassage.
I've got it right here.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Oh, there you go, yeah.
Spiritual passage.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Amazon.
I have a website,rantimmermancom that's just my
name and then I have an emailaccount, randtimmerman at
gmailcom.
I'm not doing the social thing,but I'm probably going to have
to at some point.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, I hear you.
Perfect, so that's the book.
You said you took a ton ofpictures, so I'm guessing that's
full of pictures.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
There's 500 pictures and it's in a journal format.
My brother and I both wrotejournals, so when I decided to
do the book the publishedversion is the second one I did
it the first time.
I totally had my own, had itprinted up, started giving it
away to people that werestruggling and stuff like that.
You know, like I said, I talkedabout my recovery, but I also
(38:43):
have in here ronnie wasmeticulous about what time we
got up, where we were, where wewent, how far it was to the inch
, you know, and all that kind ofstuff.
I wrote about what I saw, thepeople, all the trail names and
stuff like that, more humaninterest, uh stuff.
So between the two of us, youknow, it made sense to kind of
do it in a journal format.
If somebody wanted to hike thetrail they could copy us.
(39:05):
And not only that, but somebodysays, well, I want to go hike
this section.
Well, they can look in the book, see what we did.
There's some pictures.
Oh, is that what that lookslike?
I want to go see that.
That's cool, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
But then you also tell about your journey, though,
too, and your spiritual journeyand that whole bit too, which I
think is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, every third chapter has a picture that
relates to whatever the topic is.
I'm talking about that day,whether it's what it was like in
early recovery.
We have 12 steps that we do.
So I have talked about how Idid those with a man who taught
me how to have you know, prayand how to connect with a higher
power and do all the thingsthat I needed to do, not only to
(39:50):
take the obsession away it tookme about six months for the
obsession to go away but thenafter that we work on what we
call character defects to try tobecome the person that God
always wanted us to be, and so Iwrote all that stuff.
And there's a lot of funnystuff, you know.
Some of it's pretty funny.
In a way, after I had my firstyear of sobriety, one day a guy
(40:10):
walks up to me and he goes Rand,would you be my sponsor?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
My brain's going no, just a year, I'm like you're not
ready, rand.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
So I did what Billy always did.
I said Billy was my sponsor.
I said, come back tomorrow andwe'll talk about it.
See, billy did it becausepeople were asking him to be his
sponsor.
All the time he had 30 years ofsobriety and that was his kind
of way of filtering out the onesthat weren't serious, right.
But I'm doing it because I needto go talk to Billy and so he
(40:45):
can tell billy.
And he goes oh well, that'sgood, go for it.
I said, billy, you're supposedto tell me I'm not ready.
And he goes what do you mean?
you're not ready, you got a lota bad experience and now you got
a lot of good experience right,and I did, and I've been
working with men ever since.
I've spent about three and ahalf four hours a day on going
to the program.
It's an anonymous program so Ican't really blab about the
(41:06):
title of it, because that's thetradition we have.
We're all anonymous, we're justall trying to get sober and
stay sober.
That's what it's all about.
And I'm always working withguys and they make me better.
I tell them that regularlyYou're helping me.
They make me.
I tell them that regularlyYou're helping me.
They look at you like what areyou talking about?
No, it's true.
(41:27):
One drug I help out, working onit one step at a time.
That's where that came from.
One step at a time, we can doalmost anything right.
We can certainly get sober onestep at a time if we do certain
things.
It's all.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
How would you say your relationship with God is
now, today.
It's simple.
How would you say yourrelationship with God is now
today.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh, it's unbelievable .
I struggled for the first sixmonths I felt like this higher
power.
See, here's what I didn'trealize.
If I'm powerless over alcoholwhich I was totally I put that
first mouthful in me, every cellin my body starts screaming for
more.
I can't stop, and three or fourdays later I'm in the hospital
on suicide watch.
(42:02):
I have a real serious problem.
There's something about me thatalcohol renders me powerless.
So I have to have another powerand it's obviously it's got to
be greater than me, right?
So it's a higher power.
Well, dummy, let's do that.
So I made a relationship withthis higher power.
I'm praying the way I wastaught to pray.
I still do it to this day.
Higher power, I'm praying theway I was taught to pray.
(42:22):
I still do it to this day, jake.
I've done it every morning andI've never taken a drink since.
But there were a lot of timesit was pretty close calls,
especially in the beginning,because my higher power, I
didn't make it big enough.
In the beginning I was justthinking like a little bit, you
know whatever.
But today it's huge.
It's huge, it's huge.
You know when it's turned forme?
I was standing on a mountain inNew Jersey.
(42:44):
I can't remember the name of itEarly in the morning because we
always left right at daybreak.
Standing up there on the topthere's a couple of raptors
flying around.
It's a beautiful morning.
It's cool, these awesome birds.
I'm feeling spiritual power allaround me and I cannot see one
thing that's human-related.
(43:06):
There's no contrails, it's allGod's creation.
These beautiful, beautifulmountains.
I know the valleys below me arefilled with millions of people.
I don't hear a sound except thebirds, and then I look way out,
about 50 miles away and I canjust barely see the skyscrapers
of New York City.
God made all of that and Inever saw it.
(43:27):
I never saw it before and sincethen it's become even.
You know, for me it's now.
It's 15 billion years ofcreation and experience and
knowledge and wisdom that I willnever, ever, ever, ever have.
But I can.
I can have his spirit and dowhat I need to do, to be me, and
he always wanted me to be.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
This is amazing for me, so I appreciate you sharing
this.
So tell me about some of yourexperience in working with other
men.
If someone comes to you andthey're you know they're
struggling with alcohol, I mean,what?
What if you had just one pieceof advice that you could give
and you can do it here on the on?
If you had just one piece ofadvice that you could give and
you can do it here on the on the?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
podcast?
What, maybe?
What piece of advice would thatbe to give to them?
Just don't drink today, nomatter what.
Just don't drink today, nomatter what.
Go to a meeting, make a phonecall, talk to somebody in the
program, do what you're supposedto do, you know, pray.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Just don't do it today, don't drink today.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Because what happens?
It takes a long time for thathorrendous pull that you know it
gets into our bodies and Idon't know.
It's hard to explain For me itfelt like every cell in my body
was addicted to alcohol and whenthey decided it was going to, I
would go two or three monthswithout drinking, going to
meetings, doing everything I wassupposed to, except I wasn't
praying.
I'm not going to do the Godthing, because Rand knows better
(44:40):
.
I'm going to figure it out.
I never figured it out.
I still haven't figured it outright.
All I know is that it went away.
God, something greater thanmyself, took it away and then
said okay, kid, now I want youto go and help the next guy, and
then the next one, and the nextone and the next one.
Billy always said somebodyasked you for help.
In our program, ram, you neversay no as long as it's alcohol
(45:02):
related, and that's what I doand I get tremendous joy out of
it.
And there's a lot of failurestoo.
I've had some really sad, sadthings, but you know God's got a
plan for all of us, but we haveto acknowledge his existence
and work on it.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Before we wrap up here.
So a couple of questions foryou to kind of end up.
First of all, ronnie how'sronnie doing today?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
he's doing good.
He's good.
Yep, he was just back here eastuh, for a while.
He runs back and forth.
He's got half of his family,which is huge.
He spends daily writinggraduation cards, birthday card.
He gives everybody five bucksbecause he bucks, because he
can't afford any more than that,but he has an awesome life and
he hikes every day too.
(45:48):
Every fall, we've been doing ahike on the trail just to
commemorate Edie's you know.
He had a really powerfulexperience, spiritual experience
, on the trail on Father's Dayin 2018.
There's a picture in the bookshowing this unbelievable ray of
light that came down, the onlylight that day on a very
miserable, dark.
Dank day.
(46:08):
One ray of hope, one ray oflight and it turned my brother's
life around.
It took away the pain.
Took away the pain.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You look at that picture.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You don't know what's in it.
If it's Jesus Christ for you,that's fine.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Whatever it is, I don't know what it is.
So he had that you.
If it's jesus christ for you,that's fine, whatever it is I
don't know what it is, but itwas so you had that moment too,
right?
It's beautiful, fantastic, yeah.
My final question.
This is a question I always askon every every show I do
because it's an adventurepodcast for you, rand.
What does adventure mean to you?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
uh, push, put myself out there, put myself out there.
I still do crazy stuff.
I camp up in the woods and uh,yesterday I got my rhino stuck
in a swamp.
So I used my four-wheel truckto pull the rhino out and then I
got the truck stuck.
And I had to use the rhino toget the truck out and my wife
and my brother are looking at melike there is something wrong
(46:59):
with you.
You're not.
Oh my God, Jake, I don't know Ithere's something wrong with
you, You're not.
Oh my God, Jake, I don't know.
I just love adventure.
I've just always been that way.
I volunteered to be a machinegunner on a helicopter and then
I came back and I got amotorcycle because I needed that
adrenaline rush.
You know, that sense is stillin me.
I hope that I can keep writingmy books and doing what I'm
(47:19):
doing and helping people, andsomeday God will take me and say
your time's done.
You did good, kid.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Rand, this has been just fantastic.
You're an inspiration to me, sothank you for that.
And I know you're aninspiration to others and that
means a lot, so thank you somuch for coming on Journey with
Jake.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yes sir.
Thank you, Jake, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
A big thank you to Rand Timmerman for sharing his
powerful journey with all of us,from overcoming addiction to
walking in faith and purpose.
Rand's story is a testament tothe strength of the human spirit
.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Rand or pick up a copy of
his inspiring book A SpiritualPassage, be sure to visit his
website randtimmermancom.
(47:56):
I'm truly grateful to haveguests like Rand on the show,
people who open their hearts andremind us of what's possible
when we surrender to somethinggreater and keep moving forward.
These stories inspire me and Ihope they inspire you too.
If this episode resonated withyou, please take a moment to
share it with someone who mightneed a spark of hope or
encouragement.
And don't forget your ownadventure is always within reach
(48:19):
.
Start where you are and seewhere it takes you.
Be sure to join me again nextweek as I sit down with Rodney
Carpentier to hear about hisjourney through the Catskills
and how it led him to write hisdebut fiction novel.
It's another episode full ofchallenge, creativity and
transformation you won't want tomiss.
Until next time, keep chasingmeaning and just remember it's
(48:41):
not always about the destinationas it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
At 72 years old, rand Timmerman laced up his boots
not just to hike the AppalachianTrail, but to walk with his
brother in a journey of healing,redemption and unshakable
brotherhood.
After battling addiction andfinding sobriety, rand
discovered that the trail wasn'tjust about the miles.
It was about being present,carrying each other's burdens
(00:20):
and rediscovering purpose onestep at a time.
This is a story of secondchances, deep faith and the kind
of love that shows up mileafter mile.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
(00:40):
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will feature adifferent guest or guests, as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
(01:03):
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination as it is about
the journey.
(01:29):
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
I'm your host, jake Bushman.
If you're new here, make sureto follow me on Instagram at
journeywithjakepodcast andsubscribe to the show so you
never miss an episode.
You can also watch fullconversations over on my YouTube
channel Just search for Journeywith Jake.
And a special shout out to thePodmatch Podcast Network for
helping me connect withincredible guests like today's.
(01:51):
Today we continue that theme oftransformation and trust in
something greater.
Rand Timmerman's story is areminder that, no matter our age
or past, it's never too late tolean on a higher power and
choose a better path Fromaddiction and heartache to
healing and faith.
Rand's journey is both humblingand inspiring.
If this episode speaks to you,be sure to check out episode 138
(02:13):
with Dave Leatherfly, a storyfilled with similar themes of
surrender, spiritual awakeningand the beauty of embracing
life's deeper purpose.
Let's get to my conversationwith Rand Timmerman.
This is fun for me because I'vegot Ran Timmerman joining me
today, and Ran and I had alittle issue before.
We couldn't.
We had a little technicaldifficulty the other day, but I
always know the episode is goingto be really good.
(02:35):
Whenever I have a troublegetting somebody on and we kind
of have some issues.
I know when I finally get themon, it's going to be an awesome
episode, so I'm super excited.
Ran, thank you for coming.
Thanks for being on Journeywith Jake.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes, sir.
Thank you so much, jake, andthanks for your patience.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, no problem, it's all part of the fun, ran
it's.
You know, it's what we do.
Technology is, there's a lot, Idon't know.
I think you and I were bothsaying I'm like man, I probably
(03:09):
figure it out, I couldn't figureit out, you couldn't figure it
out, but then you got it figuredout.
So we're here, we are, we'rehere together.
This is going to be great.
We're going to talk a lot aboutthis journey along the
Appalachian trail that you didwith your brother in your
seventies, I might add.
I think you were 71.
He was 70, something like that.
You were 72.
Okay, very good, all right,some two, even older, which that
in and of itself is amazingthat you're in your 70s, because
it's you know, it could be astrenuous hike, especially if
you're through hiking, kind oflike what you did.
We're going to touch a lot onthat.
Before we get into that, though, I kind of want to know just a
(03:31):
little bit about your background, kind of where you grew up,
where you're from, and kind offamily life growing up, if you
don't mind.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Sure, yeah, I grew up in upstate New York, almost
into Canada, on the east side ofthe, you know, lake Ontario.
My dad was a Mustang pilot inWorld War II and he came home
and married my mom and had meand my brother and he got polio.
He ended up in a hospital for ayear, eight months in an iron
lung and, and when he came outhe was paralyzed from the waist
(04:06):
down.
So what that meant was poverty.
We had a really hardscrabblelife in a very kind of
hardscrabble place and I hadgreat upbringing.
We were surrounded by farms.
I started working on farms whenI was 12 years old.
I could drive a tractor andback up a trailer full of hay
and do all kinds of stuff, so inthat way it was really great.
(04:26):
But we were poor and I hatedthat.
But I did well in school.
I was kind of a rock star.
I was a miler, I was a goodrunner, Set a school record that
lasted for about 10 years Iguess, Went off to college with
no money.
I was a pin setter in a bowlingalley, among other jobs.
(04:47):
I worked as a janitor frommidnight to eight o'clock in a
high school and I was just, ohmy God, struggling.
And I loved alcohol.
I drank at 13 and I becameClint Eastwood man.
I was like I'm the guy.
I'm five foot eight, 110 pounds, but in my mind, I'm plenty of
stuff, right.
That first go around.
I'll never forget it.
(05:08):
So I knew alcohol couldprobably be a problem someday
and so I struggled in collegeand with money and stuff and
then got drunk one night in abar not far from the bowling
alley where I work.
Next morning the owner came inand turned on the radio I'm
laying on.
I slept all night and passedout on the pool table.
The owner came in, turned onthe radio I'm laying on.
I slept all night.
I passed out on the pool table.
The owner came in, turned onthe radio and they were talking
(05:29):
about first marine divisiongoing into Vietnam.
And I sat up on that pool tableand looked at that bartender
and well, he was the owner ofthe bar and he looked at me and
I walked out that door and Inever looked back.
A month later I'm at the warmemorial in Syracuse, new York,
york, pledging to serve mycountry against all enemies,
foreign and domestic, and ninemonths later I'm standing in a
rice paddy going.
I think I made a big mistake.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Wow, that's a lot of stuff that you had happen to you
Struggling at college and notstruggling, just you know,
financially like how do I get byIn the meantime?
You're drinking like crazy.
So you sign up kind of on awhim, you enlist.
You weren't even drafted, thenyou enlisted.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, I enlisted.
It was the French ForeignLegion.
For me I didn't drink a lotbecause I didn't have any money,
but when I drank, I got drunk.
The founder of the recoveryprogram that I am in 1940, wrote
about most.
If you're a real alcoholic, youprobably had a hard time making
decisions unless you were drunk.
Or the other way he put it wasmost alcoholics come up with
their best ideas when they'redrunk.
(06:29):
That's what he would tell hiswife.
I had that going.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, my brother was over there.
He enlisted in the army.
He was down by Chula.
I was up in I-Corps in thenorthernmost province.
We were both machine gunners onhelicopters.
It was not together or anythinglike that.
I mean he was a totallydifferent world from what I was
in.
But it was pretty bad the lastcouple of months.
They made me a Mustanglieutenant.
The lifespan of an infantrylieutenant in Vietnam was not
(06:59):
good.
So when I left they said well,you can go back to being a
corporal or you can go to OCS,officer Kennedy School.
So I went to Officer KennedySchool so that they couldn't
take away my commission and makeme, you know, a grunt anymore.
And then I went into the airwing.
I had a gunnery sergeant whowas a friend of mine.
He was my drill instructor inboot camp.
(07:20):
He was a gunnery sergeant whenI was in Vietnam.
They made him a Mustanglieutenant.
When I got to Cherry Point, mynew duty station, after all my
officer training, he's theofficer of the day, he's a
captain.
He said where do you want to go?
And I said I don't know what doyou got.
He said well, he's rallying offthese schools.
And he said Rhode Island.
(07:45):
I said Rhode Island.
I've never been to Rhode Island.
What's that?
He says JAG school.
So I went off to JAG schooljudge, advocate general, to be a
legal officer in the UnitedStates Marine Corps.
Right, I get over there.
The class is a hundred peoplemen, actually, all men me, a
second lieutenant, right, and 99captain, real live lawyers
graduated from law school.
They're, all you know, legit,right.
(08:06):
I may have been the lastnon-college educated, non-lawyer
JAG officer in the Marine Corps.
I was told that at a 50thanniversary thing that I went to
, but anyway, 20 of us rented amansion.
It was the off season, they allwant to party and for whatever
reason, jake, I said to myselfyou know what?
(08:27):
I'm not going to drink duringthe week, I'm going to just work
at this.
I ended up being the honor man,I got the highest score, pissed
them all off.
So I get back to the Mass 1 atthe Cherry Point Marine Corps
Air Base and they make me I'mthe legal officer, they make me
defensive guys.
Well, I defended a guy that wassleeping on watch, which is
(08:49):
almost impossible.
You know, that's prison timeright in the Marine Corps.
It's serious business.
So I came up with some witnessand anyway he got acquitted by
colonels, majors and lieutenantcolonels.
Right Officers are the jury inmilitary trials.
I had another one and so thenthey decided to make me
prosecutor so I wouldn't get anymore people off.
(09:13):
Basically, I guess my friendwould send me down to Puerto
Rico every few months to doArticle 32, type of trial down
there.
We had a base down there, it'scalled Roosevelt Roads.
Finally I came back from one ofthose and every time I went I
was on the list to go back toVietnam as a forward observer
right, not the greatest.
I come back and I said Dale, Idon't understand why I'm not
(09:33):
going to Vietnam.
He says you stupid son of a gun, why do you think I keep
sending you down to Puerto Rico?
You go back to Vietnam you'regoing to get killed, there's no
questions about it.
You've had too many, you knowclose calls.
So I had a guardian angel inthe Marine Corps, believe it or
not, but anyway it set me on alife course to be an attorney.
So I got married, I had onegirl, and then I came back to
(09:57):
Syracuse and went to college,got my BA, got my law degree,
and I spent 40 years as anattorney.
That's why my BA got my lawdegree and I spent 40 years as
an attorney.
That's why my book it says RandR.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Timmerman Esquire.
Yeah, you got the Esquire there.
Yeah yeah, what a journey.
And I have a few questionsabout that journey.
Okay, so the military MustangLieutenant in other words, it's
almost like a battlefieldcommission, is that kind of what
that is?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's what they call it in the Marine Corps.
Yeah, in World War II theycalled them combat lieutenants.
In other words, you became alieutenant out of necessity.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Out of necessity.
So they needed you to lead agroup and whatever, and they
needed you.
But, like you said, thelifespan wasn't very long.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I'd never put the bars on my collars in combat.
I didn't put them on, I didn'tknow.
I don't have any time right now.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You saw a lot of combat then in Vietnam.
I did, yeah, ptsd, that sort ofthing.
I don't know if it was thatwell known, but I'm guessing Did
that affect you.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, it did Tremendous, and my brother both.
When we came back there was nocomprehensive PTSD hadn't been
invented yet.
You know they call it battlefatigue and other.
You know they knew soldierswere different than in combat.
For myself, you know, I was sodarn busy especially.
(11:11):
I went to college, I wasmarried, I had a kid, I'm
working three jobs because westill don't have enough money to
hardly live on, and I'm reallybusy, busy, busy.
And I kept thinking you know,this is amazing, I don't seem to
have been affected by the warat all.
A lot of my buddies turned intoalcoholics.
Some of them died suicide.
I mean, I had some pretty badstories.
One night I had a nightmare, myfirst nightmare about the war,
(11:35):
and I was in bed.
I was in the battle in Vietnam.
I could picture everything.
I was covered with blood, Icould smell everything.
I could smell everything.
I could smell the powder Icould smell.
I had been cut open with abayonet and I was sitting there
trying to put my guts back intome.
And I'm thinking, rand, thistime you're done.
(11:56):
See, I did a mission in Vietnamwhere we ran out of ammo and
the only way I survived was witha bayonet.
So now, five years later, rightFive years later, I have this
nightmare.
It was so real, jake.
It was just andicked the switchup and she's looking at me and
I'm looking at her and we bothknow our lives just changed
tremendously.
(12:16):
I'm not covered with blood, I'mcovered with sweat, I'm
screaming.
(12:36):
I'm not cut open with a bayonet, but I avoided myself.
I am smelling manure and urinebecause I've totally destroyed
our bet.
And I knew at that moment, andthere was no.
You know, you didn't.
The first time I went to the VAwas I was 65 years old.
I went to the VA because theyput me on suicide watch.
See, there was no, there was notreatment for us.
(12:59):
And I can name you.
I won't, of course, but I canname you.
Guys that came back could nothandle it and ended up
committing suicide, eitherdirectly or indirectly, with
alcohol.
And after I had that dream, Istarted using alcohol to
medicate.
At night I put the kids to bed.
You know, my wife would go tobed and I would drink my brains
(13:23):
out for half an hour and then Iwould go to bed and I always got
up really early, four or five.
I was self-employed, I hadpeople working for me, I would
just get up.
So the nightmares if I had themI didn't remember them right,
or sometimes later on it wouldget you know I'd be in
situations where I didn't drinkor whatever and I could divert.
(13:44):
I could feel the nightmarecoming on and I could divert it
in my head or I would wakemyself up and I would just get
up and go to work or dosomething.
But that's how I lived my life.
To this day, I still only sleepabout five hours a night.
Yeah, I have what they callhypervigilance.
You know, walking around thehouse everything's locked.
(14:04):
I still do that.
I was at the va a few monthsago and they were trying to.
They wanted to help me withthat and I said I've been doing
this for 60 years.
I'm 80 years old now.
I'm not going to change whatI've been.
I managed to do this 60 years.
So I'm just going to keep doingwhat I'm doing because it's
working for me, you know and Igot sober 11 years ago.
I got into a recovery programwhen my alcoholism didn't really
(14:26):
kick off until I got into myearly 60s and then all of a
sudden, I just couldn't controlit anymore.
A lot of my friends thought ofme like a functional alcoholic.
It never really affected me atwork.
I didn't miss work, I didn'tyou know, I didn't drink it on
the job or anything like that.
I was a litigator, so I was incourt all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
This is incredible, and this is a huge part of who
you are.
So you were, yeah, some peoplesay a functioning alcoholic, so
to speak, but you were stilldrinking.
And then?
So what happened in yoursixties?
Why, all of a sudden then?
Did it just get out of control,do you think?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Kids are all gone.
I'm married again.
I had relationship problemsfrom the war and abusive alcohol
and bad choices here and there.
Great relationship with my kids, thank God they didn't really
understand.
I had to put myself into arehab 15 years ago because I
knew it was getting out of handand I retired because I had a
(15:20):
really good reputation.
I didn't want to destroy that.
I had never been grieved.
I was a litigator.
That's almost unheard of.
You know I took a lot of pridein my work and I was a hard
worker and all that.
I was a good father and okayhusband but luckily for me and
the problem was I didn't haveany relationship with a higher
power.
Now Ronnie came back from thewar, married our mother's best
(15:41):
friend who was 14 years olderthan him married our mother's
best friend who was 14 yearsolder than him.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She was divorced with seven kids.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Okay, ronnie's your brother.
Right, that's who ronnie is.
Yes, he's the one I hiked thetrail with.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So okay, say that again.
He married your mom's bestfriend edie.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yes, so ronnie comes back from vietnam.
He came back after me and hedid two tours.
Actually, next thing I knowhe's running around with our
mother's best friend, divorcedwith seven kids, and they're
going line dancing and ridingaround a convertible and, oh my
God, she's a good looking ladyand he's got a big grin on his
face.
And he married her and they gotinvolved in the Mormon church,
(16:17):
moved out to Utah.
He became a bishop in theMormon church.
He became a commercial pilot,flew planes for a living.
Edie had a stroke.
By the time Edie had her strokein 2011, they had 27 grandkids
and when she died in 2017,november 17, 2017, they had 27
(16:42):
great grandkids.
I mean, these Mormons like tomarry young and they like to
frolic a lot Big families.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I'm from Utah so I kind of know what that's all
about, so I fit right into thatmold, you know.
I mean, so that's wow, okay.
First of all, this story justin and of itself is great.
Married your mom's best friend.
She's 14 years older than him.
She already had, she wasdivorced with seven kids and wow
(17:11):
Ends up marrying her, moving toUtah, joins Mormon faith, you
know, church of Jesus ChristLatter-day Saints, and wow, so
he okay.
So he had that.
He had the higher power.
You were talking about a higherpower.
It sounds like he was in linewith that, but you weren't.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is that what I'm gathering?
Yeah, no, you've got that 100correct.
Yeah, I loved alcohol.
I already expressed that it didwonderful things for me.
I had a lot of fun for a longtime.
It didn't.
I didn't have any consequencesof any sort.
But if you're a true alcoholic,your body metabolizes.
A lot of people don't realizethis, but the American Medical
Association in 1956 declaredalcoholism a disease.
(17:50):
Well, there's a reason for thatand that is that alcoholics
metabolize alcohol differentlyand our bodies don't process
alcohol the same way it does fornormal drinkers.
So normal drinkers processalcohol.
They get what's called acetoneis the chemical process that
ends up creating acetone.
(18:10):
They don't like that feelingyou know that jittery, whatever
and so they stop right and theydon't think about drinking.
Alcoholics like me.
We start, we get that acetoneand it builds.
That's that feeling that youare thirsty.
Normal people don't sit downand drink 24 beers, right.
An alcoholic sits down, drinks23 beers and he's still thirsty.
(18:32):
He wants another one.
That's why that's me only withme.
At the end it ended up beingvodka and of course I had this
other stuff going on and I wasjust obliterated.
I I knew I was in big trouble.
I retired and I didn't want tohave any repercussions and I
went into full-time recoverymode and I struggled because I
(18:52):
didn't have the God thing andRonnie had that.
You know it's funny, my brother, my younger brother and I he's
a drinker too, right to this day, not crazy, like I was at the
end, but we get together withRonnie and Edie and half of
their kids and grandkids and allthat stuff every year in the
summertime.
Usually one day Marty and Iwould get a good buzz going on.
We'd be mocking the bishopbecause he's so boring.
(19:15):
Look at us, we're having waymore fun than he is.
You know that kind of thing.
I'm not proud of that, butthat's the way it was, you know.
So Ronnie and I didn't havethere was no antagonism or
anything like that, we justweren't close.
So Edie had the stroke and then,unfortunately she didn't get
better, she got worse.
(19:36):
She had a bunch of mini strokesthe last six years of her life.
Ronnie had to take care of her24-7.
He wouldn't let anybody elsetake care of her.
He thought through that process.
You know, being a bishop he'ddone a lot of weddings and
funerals and all kinds of stuffand he thought he was ready, but
it hit him like a thunderbolt.
So I went out the first timeI'd ever been out to his house
in St George and we ended uphiking beautiful hiking places
(19:59):
there.
Now, ronnie had hiked all hislife.
I, ronnie, had hiked all hislife.
I had hiked all my life.
I ran 26 marathons.
So we were in pretty good shape.
But we're not big guys either.
We're not macho men.
We're about 5'8", 175 pounds,just kind of regular guys.
Except we both got that grit,that sort of mindset if we're
(20:21):
going to do something.
If my brother says he's goingto do something, he's going to
do it.
Right.
And he had made up his mind.
He was going to hike theAppalachian Trail and when he
sprung that on me I'm like, ohmy God, because I had hiked in
the Smoky Mountains, I did fakecharges with bears.
You know, combat veterans arekind of crazy in a way.
(20:42):
I rode motorcycles, I flewairplanes, I would go on solo
hikes in the worst places bymyself.
So I had that experience and Ijust knew it was really, really
hard.
So I asked him I said when areyou going to go?
This is January of 2018.
He goes March 22nd.
Well, guess what?
March 22nd we're at SpringerMountain and it's snowing.
(21:05):
We're hiking the AppalachianTrail and when I wrote the book
the first time I took 5,000pictures.
Ronnie didn't take hardly anypictures.
All Ronnie did was marchDaybreak.
I'm going to go from here tothere.
That's it, bang and away.
He went Right.
I was more about.
I'm never walking this wayagain.
(21:26):
Nobody's shooting at me, that'sgood, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I'm just going to kind of have a try to have a
good time here.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I took a ton of pictures.
The ablation trail is beautiful, you know.
You go around a corner and I'm.
I go around a corner andthinking, well, I probably won't
see anything great today.
Oh my god, look at that.
You know, just, it was amazing,but it was also painful.
I I limped, you know.
I had an artificial left knee.
My right knee is a totaldisaster, bone on bones, half
(21:53):
inch shorter from all the traumaI put it through, from vietnam
all the way through all thatrunning without any medial
meniscus.
You know we, we're crazy, jake,I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Wow, at this point, in this point for you, you were,
you were sober at this point,and for getting sober you found
a higher power than you foundGod.
To get sober Is that kind ofwhat helped you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, I got a really good.
I struggled for three and ahalf years.
I ended up in the hospitaltwice on suicide watch.
I ended up in the VA.
I got a ride to the VA inhandcuffs in a state trooper car
because I had made a phone callsaying I think I need help.
So I walked into the VA firsttime at 65 years old in
(22:41):
handcuffs, into a psych wardThree doors to get get in.
It's real easy to get in thosethree doors.
It's a son of a gun to get backout, you know.
And two or three days later I'myeah, they've got me on some
stuff and and I'm not drunkanymore, I'm getting, you know,
my brain's coming back andeverything.
And I realized, oh my god,these people, I'm just a drunk,
(23:04):
these people are crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I mean, they are really really crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
There was a guy there who was a captain in the Army.
He was a company commander inVietnam.
He lost a lot of men.
He was not right, he never gotit.
He didn't make it.
He and I walked the hallwaysthe whole five days.
I bet you we walked 20 miles aday just walking the highways
hallways.
Him and me were locked in.
There was like a big like thisjust talking, talking to each
(23:32):
other.
But he, he, he, he was, he wasnuts.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, that's pretty intense.
So it sounds like to me youfinally you found God.
You were able to get sober.
Meanwhile, your brother, who'salways kind of had God it was
almost as if it was kind of histurn he needed that help.
He needed you now because he'salways kind of been the one
that's had God and but now thathis wife had passed away, that
sounded like it was.
That was a challenge for himand I think is that kind of the
reason he's like I'm going to gohike this trail, just because
he's that was kind of his way ofof mourning, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, so to speak.
Yes, yeah, he felt like he hadto get back into nature and find
a way to put balance back inhis life.
Somehow.
I mean, he's got, he's reallyclose to all the kids and
grandkids, but I don't know.
He just he needed that, youknow, and I, it was lucky, I was
there too, because there weresome moments that, you know, he
really struggled.
He, he woke up screaming onenight.
He was in a really bad placeand he wanted to quit.
And I knew, my brother, youcan't make good decisions in the
(24:29):
dark, in the middle of nightterrors, you just can't.
And I told him, I said, ronnie,just settle down.
We're going to go hike today,like we do every day.
The sun's coming up, it's goingto be a nice day.
If you decide when we meet atnoontime that you don't want to
do this anymore, then I'm I'mokay.
(24:49):
Well, son of a gun, becauseI've been thinking all along
there's no way we're ever goingto do this thing right.
So I'm kind of hoping, jake,I'm just being honest with you.
I was like, if he says we'renot doing this anymore, I'm fine
, like that, right, son, son ofa gun, I need him.
We're having our lunch there.
He doesn't say a word.
So I knew, okay, we're justgoing to keep going.
(25:11):
See, the Appalachian Trail is avery interesting thing.
I like to cover this real quick.
The Appalachian Trail goes fromSpringer Mountain, georgia, to
Katahdin Mountain in Maine.
It's 2,190 miles.
It goes over 600 mountains, 300of them are named.
The elevation changes is465,000 feet up and down, jake.
(25:38):
There were days.
Going up a mountain is hard,right, but you kind of get into
that chug, chug, chug thing andI never stopped on the side of a
mountain going up, never, notonce.
Then you got to go down.
Actually, going down is harder.
Most people don't realize it,but the weight is pushing you.
You got your poles.
It puts a lot of pressure onyour arms and your knees and
(25:58):
then I would be praying oh God,just not literally, but you know
what I'm saying.
Just give me 100 yards flat,just 100 yards flat, I'll be so
happy.
Get down the bottom of themountain, you look there's the
other mountain.
You go flat about 10 feet andthen you start up again.
In Georgia especially, youcould go up and down eight
(26:21):
mountains in one day, some partsof Georgia, yeah, and then
other places.
Once you get into the whites,like in new hampshire, you can
spend all day going, all morninggoing up a mountain and all
afternoon getting down it asbest you can you started in
march.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
How long did you go?
Did you finish that year?
Did you take a?
Come back the next year?
How did this whole, how did itall pan out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
well, that's, yeah, that's a good question, jake.
We had two vehicles.
When I asked my brother, I saidhow are you going to do this?
He said I'm going to take theGreyhound bus down to Springer
Mountain and start walking.
And my brain's going oh, that'snot going to work.
That wouldn't work if you were40, let alone four.
I said well, so he had done alot of studying and he had maps
and stuff.
We started looking at them.
(27:02):
There's a road of some kindgoing across the Appalachian
Trail from one side to the otherevery 10 to 15 miles, except
for in the Smokies.
There's a couple of 35 miles oneach side of Clingman's Dome
and then there's an area calledthe Pre.
So there's some places whereyou got to carry a full pack and
then so we had to.
(27:23):
We took two vehicles.
So the way we did it was likewhen we left Springer Mountain,
ron's oldest son, rick, wentwith us first couple of weeks.
So they drove up around to thenext road park.
They walked South and I walkedNorth and then they got to my
vehicle and then they came backaround and then usually what we
did is we parked right on thetrail wherever we were.
(27:45):
Were I like to brag.
I slept in a tent every night,but most of the time my truck
was right next to it, along withthe bears that would walk by it
in the middle of the night.
That happened, too the firsttime I woke up and there was a
bear like four feet from my tent, because I could see it.
I smelled it before I saw it,wow.
So that's how we did it.
I got a really bad infection.
(28:07):
I have hammer toes and I havefungus on my toes which is still
there from Vietnam.
It's never gone away and I gotan infection and I ended up in
the hospital after the first,when we got to Fontana Dam I
have my daughter lives inKnoxville I ended up in the
hospital anyway.
They gave me quadrupleantibiotics.
After a week I went back and westarted in again.
(28:29):
So we kind of went spurts.
We had two periods.
We went 30 plus days in a row,averaged 11 miles.
I fell every day.
I broke eight poles In 2018, wewent from March 22nd.
I was out that week.
I think we took another week atone point and then we were in
(28:52):
New Jersey.
We had done almost 15,000 milesone day.
It was 100 degrees, 100%humidity.
You're walking 11 miles a dayin the mountains, jake.
I mean that's unbelievable.
It's just try to do it on theflat, you.
A day in the mountains, jake.
I mean that's unbelievable.
It's just try to do it on theflat.
You know you're lucky in themountains if you can do a mile
and a half in an hour non-stop.
(29:13):
We never stopped.
We never stopped.
The younger guys would fly byus and then an hour or two later
that we catch up to them, go bythem then, and then maybe a
couple hours later they fly byagain.
Most of the hikers stopped alot.
We never stopped.
Now Ronnie's always going oneway and I'm going the other, so
we're not hiking together, whichis a good thing, because I
limped.
I can't keep up with themanyway.
(29:34):
So, anyway, this one day wecame out.
We're in New Jersey, hot, oh myGod, and my brother's standing
there with his hands on his hipsand he goes.
You wanna go home?
I said sure.
So that was it for 28.
We had both lost.
We were both down to 155.
You can't possibly eat enoughfood to keep the weight on.
(29:57):
Oh yeah, we looked like.
You know, auschwitz survivorsemaciated?
Oh yeah, we were, if you lookat the pictures.
So then the next year he saiddo you want to try to finish it?
And I said, sure, let's go.
So we went back.
We did pretty good.
I was climbing Mount Wilcox inMassachusetts, which is kind of
(30:20):
a normal regular-sized, a couplethousand-foot mountain.
First part of it was kind ofnormal 10% 15% grade earthen
path.
And then I got up north.
It always gets steeper at thetop and it always turns into
rocks right and there's a rockslide.
Literally I could show you thepicture, jake You'd say there's
no way that's the trail.
(30:41):
And then you look up and yousee the white blaze mark.
That's the trail.
You got to climb up all those.
Sometimes you're hands andknees and everything else.
I'm 10 feet from the top and mypole slipped and I stabbed with
the other one.
If I had just fallen on my faceit would have been fine.
It probably would have littleblood and stuff, but I would
(31:02):
have been fine.
It probably would have, youknow, a little blood and stuff,
but I would have been fine.
No, I have to try to regain mybalance.
I flip around 180 degrees and Iswan, dive off that rock slide
and I closed my eyes because Iknew my brain's going.
This is gonna hurt a lot.
And then when I hit, it was myGod, this is so much worse.
(31:25):
It was the worst pain I everfelt in my whole life.
But then, all of a sudden, Istopped and what I finally
figured out after a couple ofminutes was my foot got wedged
between two rocks.
So that stopped me, otherwise Iwould have been killed for sure
.
I laid there for a while.
I'm all blood my elbows, myarms, my legs, my knees.
(31:45):
Finally, I can't climb backdown.
So I crawled up to the top.
I had gone three miles.
It's nine miles to get to thenext road.
So I started walking.
I don't know if you've everbeen hurt bad, but I have been
hurt bad a lot.
But anyway, at first the painis just incredible, right, but
if you keep going after a whileit just kind of gives you this
(32:05):
warm, really achy thing.
I met my brother and he goeswhat the hell happened to you
and I told him you all right.
Well nobody's going to probablylift me out of there or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So I walked all the way out.
He met me there and then uhwent to bed.
I was really hurt, bad, and uh,next morning I couldn't.
I got out of the tent but Icouldn't get in, so we went home
, turned out I had damaged myhip.
We're kind of tough guys anddidn't really do anything about
it.
Right, and within a few daysI'm walking again and about
(32:44):
three weeks later he goes.
You want to try to finish?
it I said, sure, I did another300 miles.
I ended up doing 1863 miles, Ithink it was.
We got to mount washington.
The weather was bad.
You know what?
Mount washington is right, newhampshire it New Hampshire, okay
.
Yeah, it's the highest mountainin the Northeast.
(33:04):
It gets snow.
It's got the highest recordedwind speed of any mountain in
North America.
It was 243 miles an hour orsomething like that.
Well, yeah, look it up, it is atough, tough mountain, so they
won't let people in there quitea bit of the time.
So we jumped up to Moosilakthat was a big mountain.
And then we did Wolf Mountainand then the next day we took a
(33:28):
break.
We were going to do MountWashington.
The weather had gotten betterand we started out and I was
done.
I was done.
I started crying.
I didn't want to disappoint him, but I said I can't do it bro.
I started crying.
I didn't want to disappoint him, but I said I can't do it, bro,
I can't do it.
You know, I'm down to 150pounds now.
It's, you know, and I'm in alot of pain.
The palm was a pain, it wasjust killing me.
(33:49):
So, anyway, I didn't finish it.
He finished it with his son,rick, and they made it to
Katahdin.
They went through the hundredmile wilderness and all that.
They couldn't climb Katadinbecause they had it closed
because of COVID, can youimagine?
Well, while they were doingthat, I was in the hospital
(34:09):
getting a new hip.
But I still walk eight miles aday.
Every day I walk three milesbefore daylight.
Usually I do a couple more atnoon and a couple more in the
afternoon.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
This story, this journey of yours, was amazing to
hear, so I appreciate yousharing it.
And at the end there you knowwhen you had to stop and you got
emotional about it.
Tell me just overall when youthink back, because I think
about a few things.
I think about what it did foryou personally, but I also think
about what it did for yourbrother.
I know that meant a lot havingyou there with him.
(34:38):
Kind of tell me about you know,your bond with your brother to
this day and just kind of youroverall thoughts and feelings,
because, like I said, you got alittle emotional about it there
at the end and I can see why.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, we kind of pride ourselves if we decide to
do something, to do it, but Icouldn't.
The pain was incredible.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And I can handle 7, 8 .
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I can't handle 10.
I wasn't able to sleep anymoreat night.
The pain was so bad I justcouldn't do it.
You know, and you know thefunny part and I wrote about
this in the book Jake my brotherhad more pain, things going on
with him and I had stuff goingon when we we never talked about
it, we never said to each otherhow are you feeling, are you
okay, bro?
(35:18):
Are you okay bro?
You know, at one point he got awicked bad cramp and it
happened to be when our phoneswere working and he called me.
I was actually ahead of him.
This was one time we were goingin the same direction.
He said I can't walk anymore.
So I dropped my pack and wentracing back with some vinegar,
because vinegar will take careof cramps.
(35:39):
I don't know if you know thator not.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Wow, yeah, it works really good Because otherwise he
wasn't going to make it.
Yeah, we were looking out foreach other.
I did not want to let him down,that's what hurt the worst, but
I just couldn't.
I had to do something about myhip.
It was just bad.
I knew it was bad and things.
You know, I did 20, I did 50kski races every winter when I
(36:03):
couldn't run and you know, Ifigured for a long time I I run
every day for somewhere between3 and 30 miles, or I ski every
day in the winter time somewherebetween 10 and 50 miles, right,
and then I drink my brains out.
Well, I can't possibly be analcoholic if I can do that.
You know, I kind of had thatmindset.
(36:23):
But see, when you can't do allthat stuff anymore, that's when
the alcohol starts to take over.
For guys like me and I'vetalked to a lot of guys in the
program that and I talked aboutit in the book, this is my part
of the spiritual journey wasparticularly about how I got
sober, and then I wrote aboutthat in the book because I
worked with a lot of guys whostruggle, you know, not only
(36:45):
with alcohol but other thingsself-esteem and depression and
all kinds of things.
I don't promote it or anythinglike that, but I have found that
some people, if they get achance, you know, have an
opportunity to read it, word ofmouth or whatever amazing things
can happen, because theyrealize, look, if this guy can
get sober at 68, a scumbag likehim and then he can go and do
(37:10):
this stuff and write books andtalk to people all the time and
be a speaker at meetings andhave a vibrant, joyful life.
See, that's where theinspiration comes in, that's
what, that's what fulfills me.
I tell guys every day.
I work with guys every singleday and a lot of them are brand
new and they're struggling andhaving all kinds of problems.
(37:30):
And I say, and I'll look atthem and say you know, you're
helping me more than I'm helpingyou, and they go what are you
talking about?
You've been sober for 11 plusyears.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's so true what you're saying and hearing your
story it's helping me.
I mean, I'm being inspired andmotivated by it.
And you mentioned the book.
Tell me the name of the book,what it's called, if you don't
mind.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So everyone knows.
Yeah, no, it's a spiritualpassage.
I've got it right here.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Oh, there you go, yeah.
Spiritual passage.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Amazon.
I have a website,rantimmermancom that's just my
name and then I have an emailaccount, randtimmerman at
gmailcom.
I'm not doing the social thing,but I'm probably going to have
to at some point.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, I hear you.
Perfect, so that's the book.
You said you took a ton ofpictures, so I'm guessing that's
full of pictures.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
There's 500 pictures and it's in a journal format.
My brother and I both wrotejournals, so when I decided to
do the book the publishedversion is the second one I did
it the first time.
I totally had my own, had itprinted up, started giving it
away to people that werestruggling and stuff like that.
You know, like I said, I talkedabout my recovery, but I also
(38:43):
have in here ronnie wasmeticulous about what time we
got up, where we were, where wewent, how far it was to the inch
, you know, and all that kind ofstuff.
I wrote about what I saw, thepeople, all the trail names and
stuff like that, more humaninterest, uh stuff.
So between the two of us, youknow, it made sense to kind of
do it in a journal format.
If somebody wanted to hike thetrail they could copy us.
(39:05):
And not only that, but somebodysays, well, I want to go hike
this section.
Well, they can look in the book, see what we did.
There's some pictures.
Oh, is that what that lookslike?
I want to go see that.
That's cool, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
But then you also tell about your journey, though,
too, and your spiritual journeyand that whole bit too, which I
think is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, every third chapter has a picture that
relates to whatever the topic is.
I'm talking about that day,whether it's what it was like in
early recovery.
We have 12 steps that we do.
So I have talked about how Idid those with a man who taught
me how to have you know, prayand how to connect with a higher
power and do all the thingsthat I needed to do, not only to
(39:50):
take the obsession away it tookme about six months for the
obsession to go away but thenafter that we work on what we
call character defects to try tobecome the person that God
always wanted us to be, and so Iwrote all that stuff.
And there's a lot of funnystuff, you know.
Some of it's pretty funny.
In a way, after I had my firstyear of sobriety, one day a guy
(40:10):
walks up to me and he goes Rand,would you be my sponsor?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
My brain's going no, just a year, I'm like you're not
ready, rand.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
So I did what Billy always did.
I said Billy was my sponsor.
I said, come back tomorrow andwe'll talk about it.
See, billy did it becausepeople were asking him to be his
sponsor.
All the time he had 30 years ofsobriety and that was his kind
of way of filtering out the onesthat weren't serious, right.
But I'm doing it because I needto go talk to Billy and so he
(40:45):
can tell billy.
And he goes oh well, that'sgood, go for it.
I said, billy, you're supposedto tell me I'm not ready.
And he goes what do you mean?
you're not ready, you got a lota bad experience and now you got
a lot of good experience right,and I did, and I've been
working with men ever since.
I've spent about three and ahalf four hours a day on going
to the program.
It's an anonymous program so Ican't really blab about the
(41:06):
title of it, because that's thetradition we have.
We're all anonymous, we're justall trying to get sober and
stay sober.
That's what it's all about.
And I'm always working withguys and they make me better.
I tell them that regularlyYou're helping me.
They make me.
I tell them that regularlyYou're helping me.
They look at you like what areyou talking about?
No, it's true.
(41:27):
One drug I help out, working onit one step at a time.
That's where that came from.
One step at a time, we can doalmost anything right.
We can certainly get sober onestep at a time if we do certain
things.
It's all.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
How would you say your relationship with God is
now, today.
It's simple.
How would you say yourrelationship with God is now
today.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh, it's unbelievable .
I struggled for the first sixmonths I felt like this higher
power.
See, here's what I didn'trealize.
If I'm powerless over alcoholwhich I was totally I put that
first mouthful in me, every cellin my body starts screaming for
more.
I can't stop, and three or fourdays later I'm in the hospital
on suicide watch.
(42:02):
I have a real serious problem.
There's something about me thatalcohol renders me powerless.
So I have to have another powerand it's obviously it's got to
be greater than me, right?
So it's a higher power.
Well, dummy, let's do that.
So I made a relationship withthis higher power.
I'm praying the way I wastaught to pray.
I still do it to this day.
Higher power, I'm praying theway I was taught to pray.
(42:22):
I still do it to this day, jake.
I've done it every morning andI've never taken a drink since.
But there were a lot of timesit was pretty close calls,
especially in the beginning,because my higher power, I
didn't make it big enough.
In the beginning I was justthinking like a little bit, you
know whatever.
But today it's huge.
It's huge, it's huge.
You know when it's turned forme?
I was standing on a mountain inNew Jersey.
(42:44):
I can't remember the name of itEarly in the morning because we
always left right at daybreak.
Standing up there on the topthere's a couple of raptors
flying around.
It's a beautiful morning.
It's cool, these awesome birds.
I'm feeling spiritual power allaround me and I cannot see one
thing that's human-related.
(43:06):
There's no contrails, it's allGod's creation.
These beautiful, beautifulmountains.
I know the valleys below me arefilled with millions of people.
I don't hear a sound except thebirds, and then I look way out,
about 50 miles away and I canjust barely see the skyscrapers
of New York City.
God made all of that and Inever saw it.
(43:27):
I never saw it before and sincethen it's become even.
You know, for me it's now.
It's 15 billion years ofcreation and experience and
knowledge and wisdom that I willnever, ever, ever, ever have.
But I can.
I can have his spirit and dowhat I need to do, to be me, and
he always wanted me to be.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
This is amazing for me, so I appreciate you sharing
this.
So tell me about some of yourexperience in working with other
men.
If someone comes to you andthey're you know they're
struggling with alcohol, I mean,what?
What if you had just one pieceof advice that you could give
and you can do it here on the on?
If you had just one piece ofadvice that you could give and
you can do it here on the on the?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
podcast?
What, maybe?
What piece of advice would thatbe to give to them?
Just don't drink today, nomatter what.
Just don't drink today, nomatter what.
Go to a meeting, make a phonecall, talk to somebody in the
program, do what you're supposedto do, you know, pray.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Just don't do it today, don't drink today.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Because what happens?
It takes a long time for thathorrendous pull that you know it
gets into our bodies and Idon't know.
It's hard to explain For me itfelt like every cell in my body
was addicted to alcohol and whenthey decided it was going to, I
would go two or three monthswithout drinking, going to
meetings, doing everything I wassupposed to, except I wasn't
praying.
I'm not going to do the Godthing, because Rand knows better
(44:40):
.
I'm going to figure it out.
I never figured it out.
I still haven't figured it outright.
All I know is that it went away.
God, something greater thanmyself, took it away and then
said okay, kid, now I want youto go and help the next guy, and
then the next one, and the nextone and the next one.
Billy always said somebodyasked you for help.
In our program, ram, you neversay no as long as it's alcohol
(45:02):
related, and that's what I doand I get tremendous joy out of
it.
And there's a lot of failurestoo.
I've had some really sad, sadthings, but you know God's got a
plan for all of us, but we haveto acknowledge his existence
and work on it.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Before we wrap up here.
So a couple of questions foryou to kind of end up.
First of all, ronnie how'sronnie doing today?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
he's doing good.
He's good.
Yep, he was just back here eastuh, for a while.
He runs back and forth.
He's got half of his family,which is huge.
He spends daily writinggraduation cards, birthday card.
He gives everybody five bucksbecause he bucks, because he
can't afford any more than that,but he has an awesome life and
he hikes every day too.
(45:48):
Every fall, we've been doing ahike on the trail just to
commemorate Edie's you know.
He had a really powerfulexperience, spiritual experience
, on the trail on Father's Dayin 2018.
There's a picture in the bookshowing this unbelievable ray of
light that came down, the onlylight that day on a very
miserable, dark.
Dank day.
(46:08):
One ray of hope, one ray oflight and it turned my brother's
life around.
It took away the pain.
Took away the pain.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You look at that picture.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You don't know what's in it.
If it's Jesus Christ for you,that's fine.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Whatever it is, I don't know what it is.
So he had that you.
If it's jesus christ for you,that's fine, whatever it is I
don't know what it is, but itwas so you had that moment too,
right?
It's beautiful, fantastic, yeah.
My final question.
This is a question I always askon every every show I do
because it's an adventurepodcast for you, rand.
What does adventure mean to you?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
uh, push, put myself out there, put myself out there.
I still do crazy stuff.
I camp up in the woods and uh,yesterday I got my rhino stuck
in a swamp.
So I used my four-wheel truckto pull the rhino out and then I
got the truck stuck.
And I had to use the rhino toget the truck out and my wife
and my brother are looking at melike there is something wrong
(46:59):
with you.
You're not.
Oh my God, Jake, I don't know Ithere's something wrong with
you, You're not.
Oh my God, Jake, I don't know.
I just love adventure.
I've just always been that way.
I volunteered to be a machinegunner on a helicopter and then
I came back and I got amotorcycle because I needed that
adrenaline rush.
You know, that sense is stillin me.
I hope that I can keep writingmy books and doing what I'm
(47:19):
doing and helping people, andsomeday God will take me and say
your time's done.
You did good, kid.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Rand, this has been just fantastic.
You're an inspiration to me, sothank you for that.
And I know you're aninspiration to others and that
means a lot, so thank you somuch for coming on Journey with
Jake.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yes sir.
Thank you, Jake, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
A big thank you to Rand Timmerman for sharing his
powerful journey with all of us,from overcoming addiction to
walking in faith and purpose.
Rand's story is a testament tothe strength of the human spirit
.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Rand or pick up a copy of
his inspiring book A SpiritualPassage, be sure to visit his
website randtimmermancom.
(47:56):
I'm truly grateful to haveguests like Rand on the show,
people who open their hearts andremind us of what's possible
when we surrender to somethinggreater and keep moving forward.
These stories inspire me and Ihope they inspire you too.
If this episode resonated withyou, please take a moment to
share it with someone who mightneed a spark of hope or
encouragement.
And don't forget your ownadventure is always within reach
(48:19):
.
Start where you are and seewhere it takes you.
Be sure to join me again nextweek as I sit down with Rodney
Carpentier to hear about hisjourney through the Catskills
and how it led him to write hisdebut fiction novel.
It's another episode full ofchallenge, creativity and
transformation you won't want tomiss.
Until next time, keep chasingmeaning and just remember it's
(48:41):
not always about the destinationas it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
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