July 4, 2025 • 43 mins
Bonus 10 - What happens when a former Army Ranger and Special Forces veteran finally reveals classified missions conducted during some of history's most volatile conflicts? Chris Brewer's military journey spans 24 remarkable years, from the reactivation of the 1st Ranger Battalion in 1974 to covert operations in Colombia during the Pablo Escobar era.
In this gripping conversation, Chris takes us behind enemy lines into a world few civilians ever glimpse. Operating in civilian clothes with minimal support, his six-person team would check in just once weekly via HF radio to confirm they were still alive. While bombs exploded nightly in Bogota streets and gunfire erupted regularly, Chris and his team navigated this dangerous terrain while establishing a medical corpsman school as their cover mission. The real objective? A classified operation straight out of a Tom Clancy novel.
Behind the tactical stories lies a deeply human journey. Chris opens up about raising his son as a single father while serving in Special Forces, depending on military friends to care for his child during deployments. His candid discussion of surviving rocket attacks and processing trauma offers rare insight into the psychological resilience required in elite military units. "You wake up and the first thing through your mind is I can't breathe," Chris explains, describing the aftermath of explosions that left him sleeping in rooms riddled with shrapnel.
What makes Special Forces different from other military units? As Chris explains, "When there's only six of you, or 12 of you out there, all by yourself, a long way from home, you're probably not going to win very many gunfights." The key to survival isn't superior firepower but building relationships with local populations and understanding their needs—a philosophy that guided his entire career.
Check out Chris's books "In the Shadows Between the Wars" and "Old Scroll Ranger" on Amazon to dive deeper into these declassified stories that shaped global security while remaining hidden from public view for decades. These firsthand accounts provide an unfiltered look at military service that will change how you understand modern warfare.
Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind. Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.
Visit geneticinsights.co and use the code "DISCOVER25" to enjoy a sweet 25% off your first purchase.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to this bonus episode of
Journey with Jake, released justin time for the 4th of July.
I always like to release anepisode on a holiday if at all
possible, so here I am.
I had the privilege of speakingwith Chris Brewer, a former
Army Ranger and Special Forcesveteran, whose story really
moved me.
Chris opened up about his timein the military, the challenges
(00:21):
he's faced and the adventures ofbeing a Ranger and part of
Special Forces SF, as he callsit.
This was a good one.
I hope it resonates with you.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
(00:43):
Things about differentadventures this show will
entertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you also hear
the failures and trials eachguest faces and what they have
done or are doing to overcomethe hardships that come their
way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
(01:03):
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination, as it is about
the journey.
Thanks again for tuning in toJourney with Jake, the podcast,
(01:35):
where we dive into the storiesof everyday people doing
extraordinary things throughadventure, resilience and
purpose.
Today's bonus episode featuresChris Brewer, a former Army
Ranger and Special Forcesveteran whose journey goes far
beyond the battlefield.
Chris is also the author of Inthe Shadows.
Bonus episode features ChrisBrewer, a former Army Ranger and
Special Forces veteran whosejourney goes far beyond the
battlefield.
Chris is also the author of Inthe Shadows Between the Wars, a
book that shares previouslyclassified stories from deep
inside the world of specialoperations.
(01:56):
His story is raw, honest andincredibly inspiring.
I'm honored to share it withyou today.
Let's get to my conversationwith Chris Brewer, all right,
right, I'm excited today.
I have Chris Brewer with metoday.
Chris, welcome to Journey withJake.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it yeah,absolutely.
It's great to have you on board.
I'm excited to hear about yourjourney and who you are.
(02:17):
Before we dive into some ofthose experiences give us a
little background, kind of whereyou're from, where you grew up,
that sort of thing.
So we have a little backgroundon who Chris is.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Army brat Dad served for about 24 years.
I was the new kid in schoolevery year because he always
moved to the middle of theschool year.
That pretty much influencedwhere I was going from there.
So I went to North Georgia atthat time military college as a
cadet and was having challengespaying for it as I went through
debt.
There were a lot of thingsgoing on.
(02:47):
So I joined the 20th SpecialForces National Guard, now at
that time being only about 18 or19,.
The only thing I could qualifyfor was as a medic.
So I went to basic in 91 Bravo,came back to North Georgia, but
then I had a taste of being inuniform and out on my own and
having money in my pocket.
So I didn't last one moresemester and 1974, the 1st
(03:12):
Ranger Battalion was reactivated.
That was all over the news andI went down to the recruiting
office and I enlisted.
But being young and dumb,rather than just go there as a
medic, I said no, they'reRangers, I want to be infantry,
I demand to be sent to infantryAIT.
So I went right back to FortPolk, louisiana, where I'd been
(03:33):
through basic, went through AIT,went to jump school and linked
up with the 1st Ranger Battalionat Fort Stewart, georgia, in
the fall of 1974, in the middleof their activation test.
So as a brand new Cherry PFC Igot introduced to the Ranger
Battalion full time.
I wrote a book Old ScrollRanger that talks about that and
(03:56):
the first three years of theRanger Battalion, when we were
trying to figure out what aRanger Battalion could do
without killing everybody.
Then from there I went through aseries of things, wound up back
at Fort Benning, coming out ofa European tour.
I re-enlisted for the rangerdepartment because at that time
(04:16):
you had to be an instructor atsome point in your career.
So I said, all right, I'll gobe a ranger instructor down at
Fort Benning and then from thereI can go back to the bat I'd
just made E7.
Or I can go to SF.
You know, because I'd been upat Bottolt's with the guys up
there in 1st and 10th and I kindof caught the bug on Special
Forces.
Got in there, sergeant Majorlooked me in the eye and said
(04:40):
welcome boy, buy yourself ahouse, you'll be here for the
rest of your career.
At that time I only had abouteight years time of service and
I said oh, no, no, no, sergeantmajor.
You don't understand.
I'm just here to do my part, tobe an instructor and I'm going
back out to the field.
I said no, no, you're not the.
We are critically short ofdrill instructors.
And since you're here at FortBenning, you're going to be
(05:03):
selected.
You'll be here about two yearsand you'll come up.
And now it's a five-yearstabilized tour.
So you'll be on the trail forfive years.
That'll put you at about 15.
We'll get you back here for two, maybe, go to the airborne
department for a while andyou'll have your 20, you can
retire.
And I went oh hell, no, I'm notgoing to be a drill sergeant
(05:23):
for five years.
So I said well, I'm going backto the Ranger Bat.
And he laughed at me and saysnah, son, you just made E7.
There's like a three-yearwaiting list.
Drill will pick you up beforeyou even get considered.
So I looked and looked andthere was only one thing that
took priority over drillsergeant and that was officer
(05:45):
candidate school.
So I did the ultimate act ofbetrayal to the NCO Corps and I
went to OCS as an E7, became amere second lieutenant, went to
the 82nd for my platoon time.
Then I had to go to degreecompletion, since I didn't have
a four-year degree before I madecaptain, and I finally made it
(06:06):
to SFQC at about the age of 34.
The very cycle that theystarted their experiment with
selection and assessment and allthe things of just how bad do
you want to be here.
They were going to add to thecourse and got through that, got
into SF and retired out ofthere after 24 years.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Wow, okay, what a career.
I mean just all the things thatyou've done, amazing.
I want to go back to kind ofyou mentioned you're an army
brat kid, so you're movingaround.
You said like you were the newkid every year because of that,
because you were an army bratkid, that's kind of the life you
knew.
Is that kind of why you thought, hey, man, I'm just you know,
(06:49):
military is what I know, that'swhat I love, that's why I want
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, pretty much.
That was pretty well ingrainedinto me.
I did have one brief span whenI came out of the Ranger Bat in
1977.
We had incredible NCOs andofficers when we started and
then after the first three yearsall the originals started to go
(07:14):
out to the regular army and westarted to get new people coming
in.
And that was before we had ourown selection assessment.
So there was a lot of guys thatcame in that probably shouldn't
have been there.
Standards started droppingProbably shouldn't have been
there.
Standards started dropping butI'd been indoctrinated in the
hard life and I was disgusted soI said the hell with this.
I got out of the army, went tobe a civilian for about a year
(07:37):
and that's about all I couldtake and I came right back in.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's amazing how some people are just made for the
military life, and apparentlyyou were made for the military
life, family life for yougrowing up.
Obviously you're moving aroundevery year, siblings, anything
like that.
Are you the only child?
What's going on there?
Yeah, I got a younger brother.
Okay, is he a military guy aswell, or?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
no, he spent some time in the Navy and then he got
out.
He did a lot better as acivilian than I did.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Gotcha.
Okay, so for him it was moreset up for him, but not not for
you.
So much Wow, 24 years, amazing.
I want to hear about some ofthese, these experiences you've
had in any you know pivotalmoments that you had, because
this is journey with Jake's, anadventure podcast, but it's
about who you are in yourjourney.
So I would love to know youknow just some of you know, your
special forces, your ranger.
(08:24):
I mean that people think of,especially nowadays.
You think of rangers.
You're like, wow, those youknow those guys are pretty
intense, pretty good, and so Ikind of want to hear some of
your stories of maybe a fewpivotal moments that you had.
That were.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Just, you know, reflect that.
You reflect back down and think, wow, that was a, that was a
pivotal moment, Something thatthat helped shape who you are.
Certainly the Ranger Bat,Because we got there when they
started up.
Every NCO and every officer inthe Ranger Battalion had combat
experience in Vietnam.
Most of them were the survivorsof the long-range
reconnaissance teams.
We had some SOG guys that werein there, but that was a hard
crew and they knew combat, theyknew what you had to do, so they
(09:06):
taught me things that carriedme through my whole career and
they definitely left a mark.
A lot of people have asked well,how did you transition from
being a ranger into SF?
And I really didn't.
I just I was a ranger in SF.
Going to SF, there was a lot ofgrowing, a lot of things that
(09:26):
you had to learn to kind of addto that template in order to be
successful there, and the secondbook talks about that.
There's a couple of chapters inthere where I'm learning that
not everybody is a ranger andthere's some things that you
have to do to get people to workwith you and for you.
Going out behind the barracksand resolving who's going to be
(09:47):
in charge doesn't always work inevery situation.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And when you say I mean just so I'm clear here when
you say SF, you're sayingspecial forces.
Right, that's what SF means.
Yeah, that's correct, perfect,okay, good, I just want to make
sure.
Hopefully that's what you'resaying.
But, yeah, perfect, I love it,I love, I love you military
folks too, with your, youracronyms and everything.
It's fun to hear.
So I may jump in every now andagain.
If I don't, if I'm like, whatdoes that mean?
So if you hear me doing that,it's because I'm ignorant to
(10:13):
what you, what you know, whatyou grew with.
So I may jump in every now andagain to ask that, because of
your experience, I want to knowabout some of the places you've
been, some of the experiencesand I know it's different
because, again, this being anadventure podcast, I have a lot
of people who go to thesedifferent places and they travel
around, but it's more, not somuch not necessarily tourist
(10:36):
places Some are, but they go ascivilians and, as for recreation
or for fun or to grow indifferent ways, for military
military, you're there forspecific purposes.
Can you tell us some of theplaces you've been and what some
of those places were like fromyour perspective in the military
?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah sure, ranger batch, you go in as a unit.
So you're going primarily totrain or you're going for
operations.
First three years we went toPanama, to Germany, for major
exercises there and then up tothe north slope of Alaska for
winter training.
So that was pretty much ourlife Environmental extremes is
the best way to describe it andhow to survive there while
(11:16):
you're doing what you need to do.
Sf was a different life.
We'd go a lot longer.
For one thing, I was on twooperational missions, for six
months each One.
We went to Columbia whenEscobar had just killed the
presidential candidate Galan andthe drug wars were going on,
and George Herbert Bush,president at that time, said
(11:40):
we're going to support thegovernment of Columbia while
they fight these narcoterrorists, but we will not send
American combat troops.
We got a mission.
They wanted to open up theirown medical corpsman school, but
since we couldn't send combattroops, we took six guys from my
ODA, myself included, and wewere reassigned over to
(12:01):
something called the SATMO,security Assistance Management
Training.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Office Gotcha and you said ODA.
What does ODA mean?
Operational Detachment?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Alpha 18.
18.
Gotcha, okay, acronyms again.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I'll try to.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
No, you're fine.
So they transferred us overthere because SATMO is all
doctors, nurses, logisticians,mechanics.
There's no real combat peoplethere.
It's a very benign organization.
So since we were reassigned toSATMO we didn't cross that line
of combat troops.
And then we flew into Bogota incivilian clothes, no guns.
(12:40):
We carried some survival gearin our civilian luggage and
radio.
And this was in the mid-70s orno correction, that was in the
late 80s.
Cell phones existed, but almostnobody had them.
Computers laptops really hadn'tcome out yet.
There really wasn't much of aninternet.
(13:05):
You'd come up on the air aboutonce a week or once a month on
that HF radio and report back toFort Bragg that yeah, we're
still alive.
What do you want us to do?
And they put it.
We got to the RSO office.
They told us that you guys aregoing to South Bogota where all
the fighting is, but you'regoing to be up on a mountain on
a military base and we can'tcome get you.
So once you're there, you'rethere until we come get you six
(13:25):
months later, call in once aweek, let us know if you're
still alive and tell us howthings are going.
And we stayed there for sixmonths.
There were things we needed todo.
So over a period of time we'dcome out and at that time there
were bombs going off every nightin Bogota.
There were shootings going on.
So coming out of the militarybase you didn't want to drive
(13:46):
out anyway because if you droveout you'd be spotted, you'd be
tailed and you'd probably getbombed.
So we'd walk out A littlebarrio right outside it was all
narrow alleys and the rest of itso we could dodge down one of
those alleys and kind of workour way down to the bottom of
the mountain.
We could dodge down one ofthose alleys and kind of work
our way down to the bottom ofthe mountain.
Down there taxis wouldn't comebecause it was too dangerous,
(14:08):
but buses would, oddly enough.
So we'd get a bus ride up untilthe city square and then from
there we could take a taxi to alittle coffee shop.
We'd hang out outside of theembassy where we'd check things
out for an hour or so to see ifit looked like anyone was
getting ready to blow somethingup, and then we'd cross into the
embassy and it got to the pointwhere we're pretty comfortable
(14:30):
moving around the city.
We were about the onlyAmericans who did so we'd come
in and we'd tell the RSO whatwas going on.
And yeah, there's this placecalled Abbott and Costillo's and
they go.
Yeah, the one that's got apicture of Laurel and Hardy on
the outside, yeah, but they callit Abbott and Costello's.
Well, guys, don't go down there, that's dangerous man.
(14:52):
We go down there every weekend.
That's where all the collegekids hang out, we have a beer
and we discuss politics.
And I said, yeah, they're allELP, they're terrorists.
No, they're college kids.
They set a bomb off at theuniversity, but that's about all
they do.
And since we were medicalpersonnel, we weren't considered
a threat.
When they'd ask what country wecame from Canada or I spoke a
(15:16):
little German so I'd say I wasGerman and we got along just
fine.
We went to Panama after thatbecause the invasion happened
while we were there.
And then, when they pulled usall the troops out, they put us
in down there because we spokeSpanish.
And when all the combat troopsAmerican combat troops went home
, they put us in every one ofthe cartels that used to be.
(15:39):
The Panamanian National Guardtold them that you're police,
now you have to take off allyour badges.
And they didn't like that atall and they said you guys in
the SF you live with them.
So if they're going to try topull a coup and take over the
government again, you let usknow.
You're tripwires and be sureyou report in every day, because
if you go three days withoutreporting in we'll know you're
(16:01):
dead and there's a problem outthere.
That was a fun six months andwe were there for a coup attempt
in Panama City and helped dealwith that at the very end Went
to first group in Okinawa.
I had my second A-team commandout there, commanded a company
twice.
Sf does a lot of differentthings.
(16:23):
Counterterrorism is one of them,and think about hostage rescue,
the guys with the body armorand all blowing the doors going
in, and that's one of the thingsthat Charlie Company does.
We do other things too and,being SF, sometimes we'd go to
places that had a lot ofproblems.
There's an American embassythere but they're worried and if
(16:43):
things go to hell we may needhelp to get out.
They call it a non-combatantevacuation.
So we'd go in there againcivilian clothes.
We were here a little bitlonger.
We'd go out and we'd go throughthe city where all the danger
spots were and figure out.
All right, if they've got toget out and we can't get a
(17:04):
helicopter in here, what's theroute to the airport?
And if that isn't going to work, where else can they go?
That we could probably be ableto get them out, and we check
all that out, come back, fileour reports and help them with
their NEO plans non-combatantevacuation order and then
Charlie Company would follow upon that, because if they got
into trouble, charlie Companywould be one of the
organizations that call on tohelp get them out.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Wow, I'm sitting here listening to these stories and
six months here.
Call in once a week and thatway we'll know you're still
alive.
It's just amazing and I knowobviously technology's changed
since then, so things areprobably a lot different now
with communication andeverything.
It's probably consistent and upto date and everything.
What was your situation likewhen you're in those situations
(17:45):
as far as did you have a familyat the time?
Were you married or anythinggoing on like that?
Or was it you just a single guy, Like what was happening with
you personally at the time?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
When I was an OCS I was married.
At the time I had a kid.
It didn't go well on thetransition for the family
because officer life's a lotdifferent than NCO life and the
wife wasn't having it.
There was a divorce and youdon't get custody at Fort Bragg
if you're the man, that's goingto automatically go to the wife.
So I lost custody of my son.
(18:16):
Halfway through the specialforces qualification course she
decided to give me custody so Igot custody of my son.
I became a single parent rightabout the time I graduated from
SF.
That was a really rough lifefor my son.
I had family members that wouldlook after him when I was gone.
I had good friends at FortBragg that had been friends for
(18:38):
years and he grew up with theirdaughters pretty much.
So he'd move in and he'd staywith them when I was gone and
they moved to Okinawa justbefore I got that assignment so
he'd stay with them when I wasout and about doing my thing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
How old was he at the time when you first started to
raise him as a single dad?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh gosh, he was not very old at all, seven or eight,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
How was that for you, when you were out on these
missions and you're in're, youknow, in columbia and panama,
places like that did it affectyou at all, or were you just
focused?
I mean, you got that militaryfocus where you're like you're,
you know you're doing what yougot to do.
Any thoughts going back to the,the summit, all in the q course
.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That was.
That was really rough before Igot custody because what he was
not in a good situation with myex, there wasn't anything I
could do about it.
But once he got over with me,the people that I had him with,
I had confidence in them, I feltcomfortable in that and, yeah,
I was focused on the job becauseyou pretty much had to be.
There was no room forinattention.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
When you're focused like you are, do you have any
time to even enjoy where you are?
Were there any parts of Panama,colombia, that you thought, wow
, this is beautiful, or thepeople here are good, or did you
have any moments like that atall?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
An American soldier will find a way to have some fun
anywhere in the world, nomatter how bad things get.
So yeah, there were moments Formost folks after I retired.
I did security contracting.
I spent five years inAfghanistan as a security
contractor and most of that ison the forward operating base,
the FOB.
(20:14):
They've got McDonald's, they'vegot Dairy Queen.
It's almost all the comforts ofhome inside the HESCOs.
What we did, we're never on abase.
We're out there living with thepeople, and the people that are
living out there they've gotlives too.
So if they're having a party,you're invited to the party and
you just learn the life thatthey're living?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
A question I always like to ask on this show because
it's an adventure podcast, butit's your journey and who you
are, and this has been greatgetting to know who you are.
For you, chris, when you thinkof the word adventure, what does
adventure mean to you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You're stepping off into the unknown.
You're going out to find outwhat's there.
You're going to learn things.
Sometimes you learn things youreally didn't want to know.
You're getting out of yourbubble and think about the
Afghanistan story where you'reliving in that bubble inside the
HESCOs, with the Dairy Queenand all the comforts.
When you go outside thoseHESCOs you're stepping off into
(21:07):
the unknown and you're not surewhat you're going to get.
And even when I was acontractor, there were times
that we'd be traveling around,one or two alone drew my beard
out, had my Pakul hat, had mygreen vest, had my little AK-47,
drive around in an oldrattletrap car.
You might get shot at byTaliban.
You might get shot at byTaliban.
You might get shot at bybandits.
(21:27):
You might get shot at by the USMarine Corps.
You didn't know what was goingto happen.
So you just got to keep yourwits about you and pay attention
to where you are and what'sgoing on around you,
hyper-focused.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I mean, it seems like you have to just be
hyper-focused.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and it's hard to come down off of that too.
It sticks with you for a while,especially on some of the bad
things that you'll see.
Some of that takes a long timeto.
It never really goes away, butit takes a long time for you to
go ahead and compartmentalizeand learn how to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I wanted to ask it.
That was a question I kind ofhad written down on my notes or
that I wanted to ask.
I wanted to ask about some ofthat, about some of that like
PTSD and things like that, withthings that you've seen and been
through, and you kind ofstarted talking about it right
now.
Yeah, talk about that a littlebit.
When you say it's hard to comeoff of that in the moment or
just over years, or what do you,what do you kind of mean by
that?
What's it like?
Cause I have, you know, I haveno idea I, and I'm curious of
(22:20):
what someone like you goesthrough mentally.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
PTSD takes a lot of different forms for different
people and depending on whatyou've been through and what
your background is.
The one thing that stuck withme it was very difficult for
years for me to go to sleepwithout checking the perimeter.
I cannot go to bed until I'vechecked every door to make sure
it's locked cameras, alarms andfor a long time if I didn't have
a loaded gun right where Icould put my hand on it, I could
(22:49):
not sleep.
Got over that over a period oftime.
Sudden noises you know youinstantly come awake.
I learned not to keep a firearmwithin reach because you're
instinctively going to reach forthat firearm before you're
fully awake.
And when you have a kid and youhave other people in the house,
that's not a good combination.
You know what a botan is.
(23:10):
It's kind of a wooden sword,gotcha Okay, same size as a
katana.
Do really good if you got tobeat the daylights out of
somebody, if you know how to useit.
So you put a botan next to thebed where you can reach out and
grab that and you're not goingto kill anybody.
But you got something that youcan push them away and then
whack them over the head if youneed to Until your brain cycles
(23:31):
in as to who's in the room andyou teach the kids don't come in
and wake daddy up, turn thelight on at the door and say hey
dad.
And over time you learn toadjust to all that.
Loss of friends and injuries.
I was fortunate I never gotseriously injured.
I got blown up a few times.
First time I got blown up 107hit, not in the bee huts, for
(23:58):
what we lived in.
Think about a 20 by 40 footwood building that's all made
out of plywood and then they putcompartments inside, so you've
got a little 10-by-10 livingarea.
We had a 107 rocket that came inand hit.
It didn't hit our B-hut, but ithit the one right next to it.
It knocked me completely out ofmy bunk onto the floor.
(24:20):
When it hits it takes away allthe oxygen because that
explosive just O2 is gone.
So you wake up.
The first thing that goesthrough your mind is I can't
breathe.
Since it hit the other one.
The shrapnel when it wentthrough the walls of that one
came through the outer wall ofours, passed through my room,
through the plywood on the otherside and went into the hall.
(24:42):
But all the fragments missed me, fortunately.
So I'm on the floor lying onsplinters, smoke, can't breathe,
the concussion was enough thatyou just knock down and then you
get outside and then you seethe other one and you see the
effects of what happened overthere.
And that leaves an impression,certainly.
(25:02):
But the thing that stuck with methe most is that after the
medics came they took away thedead and wounded and after EOD
came and checked all the stuffthat was left, everybody goes
back to sleep because it's themiddle of the night.
So you go back into your roomthat's now full of holes and got
splinters everywhere andthere's shrapnel in the hallway
as you walk in and that'sanother three, four hours till
(25:25):
daylight Right and could not,obviously could not sleep.
You take your body armor offand you put that up against the
wall where you're sleeping,where your head will be next to
the wall.
That helps a little bit,because one of the things you
saw was a guy who lost part ofhis head in the one next door.
You eventually get past that.
(25:45):
You learn to deal with it.
I'm alive.
It didn't happen to me.
It could happen, but it didn't.
So you got a job to do.
So you got to pick up and moveon.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I'm just baffled by that.
That's just wow.
I mean, yeah, of course, howwould?
How would you go back to sleep?
It's amazing to me that youdidn't get seriously injured.
That's incredible.
But seeing all that, dealingwith all of that for you, you
know, mentally, I mean, is itjust a time thing?
Do you think, I mean, for you,is it just kind of over time, it
(26:19):
kind of slowly gets better, ordo you still have moments today
where you think about thingslike that and it affects you?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Moments.
You know you'll see or hear orsmell something that kind of
triggers, something that kind oftriggers, but if you recognize
it for what it is, you let it gothrough.
You know, okay, that's comingfrom this part of my head over
here.
That's that memory.
It's not happening right now.
And being with rangers forthree years, that helped a lot,
believe it or not, because wedid live fires constantly and we
(26:47):
didn't do live fire exerciseslike most units do, most units.
You go to a range.
It's tightly controlled, leftand right limits.
There's safety officers whomove here shoot four rounds.
Stop all of that kind of thing.
Rangers don't do that.
You'll go pick out a piece ofterrain, woods, jungle, whatever
(27:08):
it may be.
There'll be an objective set upwith targets and at first
you'll have guys that'll be upthere playing opposition forces
and it's all blank fire for that.
So you'll go through and you'llwalk through what you would do
on this, through the terrain.
You'll come back and thenyou'll blank fire.
There'll be guys up on theobjective with blanks shooting
(27:30):
at you and you're shooting backat them and you've got
pyrotechnics to make explosionsand all of this.
But it's relatively safe.
You'll do that.
Then you'll do it at night.
And then you'll come back andyou'll walk through again and
then you'll do it during the daywith real bullets, but there's
paper targets instead of peopleup there.
But when you're doing it withreal bullets, you've got real
(27:52):
explosives.
You've got real hand grenades,you've got real mortar rounds.
You've got real machine guns.
The only thing that's missingis people shooting back at you.
And then you'll do it at night,and in those days we had no
night vision equipment, soyou're doing this in complete
darkness, except for muzzleflashes and flares and whatever
else you can get.
So you do that over a period ofyears.
(28:14):
You get used to a lot of thisstuff and we had injuries, we
had people killed in jumps, wehad people injured in live fire,
so you'd see a little bit ofblood.
You learn to deal with it, youlearn to be accustomed, you
learn what needs to be done.
That helps in the long run.
I think that some of the peoplethat suffer the worst are like
the Rangers.
Now I saw those kids.
(28:35):
They go out on a six-monthdeployment or a 90-day
deployment.
They go out and hit targetsevery night.
Sometimes two or three targetsin one night.
That's a lot to load up on thepsyche.
That's going to take a longtime.
I was fortunate and I got minein little doses with periods in
between to go ahead and learn todeal with it and learn to
(28:56):
compartment it and move forward.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
The things that you've been through are just
incredible.
Just amazing when you're inthese hostile environments.
What would you say are thewhat's the biggest challenge of
being in these hostileenvironments?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There's a lot of challenges.
There was always a cycle on thesix months deployment that we'd
have.
Now your your first month, orfour to five weeks, you know
you're the adrenaline's up,you're a little bit
hypervigilant, you're trying tobe cautious.
By the fourth or fifth weekYou've been shot at a couple of
times there's been someexplosions go off.
(29:32):
You're like, okay, we'd be inBogota going down to get
something to eat on a weekend.
Bomb would go off out in thestreet, machine gun fire would
go.
You'd stop, look, okay, I'm notcoming in here.
You go back to eating your mealand just we'll go out the other
way instead of going out thatway.
They're going to be busy outthere for a while and then you
(29:54):
get to.
After the third month you'repretty much settled in.
You know your way around.
This is business as usual.
By the fourth month you'regetting tired of it.
You know I really want to gohome.
This isn't going to ever changeand this isn't going to how I
want to live my life.
And we just had one or twobrushes too much.
Last month is the toughestbecause you know you're going
(30:18):
and you don't want to get taggedin that last month, so that
hypervigilance starts to comeback again.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That makes sense.
Yeah, I, it's funny.
That's interesting to kind ofhear the cycle of it and I kind
of go through as it cyclesthrough the six months.
It's quite interesting.
I want to ask you about yourbook because I know you wrote a
book.
It's called In the ShadowsBetween the Wars, if I'm not
mistaken.
Why did you want to write thisbook and tell me a little bit
about the?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
book.
First one is Old Skrull Rangerand that's just soldier stories
from the Ranger Bat when itfirst started.
There's some funny stories.
There's what it was like in1974 in Hinesville, georgia.
That's good for a chuckle ortwo.
I'd recommend that the otherone took a different approach,
because that was Columbia was atop secret SCI, because while we
(31:08):
were there our mission wasn'tnecessarily top secret, but
while we were there we gottagged with another mission to
go out and help some people thatwere TSSCI that were in the
valley between Medellin andBogota.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Okay, stop you for a second.
Say that acronym again TSSCI.
What was that?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Top secret special compartmented information.
Wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Okay, okay, so there was a group, that okay, and then
you were saying Tom, I thinkyou're talking about Tom Clancy,
if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, remember Tom Clancy's book Clear and Present
Danger and there was a movie.
This was in the valley wherethe book action was concerned.
There were Americans in thatvalley that were being
threatened by Escobar.
There were Americans in thatvalley that were being
threatened by Escobar and, sincewe were in Bogota, the embassy
came down and said can you help?
And I said man, I've got sixguys who are running a school.
(31:59):
I mean there's not much we cando.
But the embassy said please,just, we've got a Colombian
general officer's private plane.
He'll fly you down to this base, colombian Air Force Base.
Just get in there and see whatyou can do.
The Colombians won't let usbring anyone out from outside.
Sween clothes, our blackleather jackets, our beretta and
(32:20):
our shoulder holster.
We walked down, caught the bus,caught the taxi, got down there
what's going on?
We brought along a uniform anda little day pack and we had
what we had, you know, a coppicefirst aid dressings.
There wasn't really much we had.
They flew us down there and wespent about two days, two or
(32:41):
three days helping those folksout, got Escobar to back down
and after he backed down andleft, they called us and said
okay, you can come back toBogota.
Great job.
I said okay.
Well, when's the plane coming?
He said, well, you know thegeneral's really busy, but you
guys are green berets, you canmake it on your own right.
I said, dude, we just got hisguys to back off.
(33:04):
They're outside the fence ofthis base.
They're pissed at us, they'dlove to get their hands on us.
Well, so we finally got them tosend a guy that we knew, whose
mother lived in the village downthere, and he came down in an
old, beat up Toyota stationwagon with one headlight out to
(33:24):
see his mom.
We threw a chicken in a cage inthe back, put our civilian
clothes back on, got in with himand we rode right through
Escobar's controlled area backto Bogota.
That was kind of the norm forsome of these things.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Wow, that's amazing.
This is all you talk about thisin that book all of this.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, and that's why the second book took about six
or eight months to get out,because I had to go to
Department of Defensepre-publication approval.
They sent it out to SpecialOperations Command, socom, to
Southern Command, southcom, toPacific Command, pacom, and
(34:06):
there's a story in there wherewe were plainclothes working
with the State Department.
So it had to go to theDepartment of State and some
other people and it took aboutsix months to make the rounds
and they came back and thedifferent agencies disagreed
with one another on what wasclassified and what wasn't.
So they had to send it outagain with additional
(34:26):
instructions.
It finally came back and theysaid, all right, fine, what the
hell, we don't care, it's beenmore than 30 years, it doesn't
matter anyway, but don't usethis acronym.
Okay, well, what acronym do youwant me to use?
And they gave me a differentthree letter acronym I've never
heard of before.
All right, I'll use that.
So in the book as we go through, I'll mention, because a lot of
(34:49):
the guys that I worked with aregetting this book.
So, look, I know this acronymis not the one we used, but
we're not allowed to say thatwe're using this one that you've
never heard of, but you knowwho we're talking about this
book is legit, then I mean, thisis literally stuff that was
classified, that no one knewabout for 30 plus years ago.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You went through the proper channels to make sure you
were good to go, so you'retelling these stories about real
things.
I mean, this is like the stuffthat actually happened to Chris
Brewer.
This is amazing.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, now there's the first couple of chapters that
are about getting your mindright to go into special forces.
That's before I went.
There's a chapter that's on theQ course.
When it was turning intoselection assessment, a colonel
came down when we got there,fort Bragg, and he said welcome
to the qualification course.
You men will not go through thecourse I went through.
(35:43):
Yours is going to be harder, alot harder, because we need
tough people, because we'regoing to make SF into a separate
branch.
We're going to experiment withsome things.
If it hurts too many people, wewon't do that, we'll change it.
But if you don't pass thisfirst cycle, you'll be recycled
and you will have to go toselection assessment before you
get to start again.
So it was game on, you know.
(36:05):
Oh hell, no, I ain't gettingrecycled, I ain't doing this
shit twice.
But then you get into thestories.
Columbia was classified, panamawas classified.
There's some parts of Panama Ican't talk about and you may
pick up on.
There's something missing here.
And you're right, most ofPacific and Okinawa was very
(36:27):
classified.
There was one thing in thererelative to the State Department
they really didn't want to talkabout, but they finally let
that go.
So, yeah, there's some goodstories in there.
It'll give you some insightwhat goes on.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Absolutely as far as the book In the Shadows Between
the Wars in your other.
Tell me again the name of theother book Old Scroll Ranger.
Old Scroll Ranger Gotcha.
Where can people find the books?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They're on Amazon.
The second one now has an audiobook that's out as well.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
They're on Kindle, the usual places Barnes and
Noble, walmart most of theplaces you can find it, but
Amazon's the easiest one.
Very good, excellent,Appreciate that.
Now that you've done that,you've been through your career,
you're retired.
What do you got going on now?
What's Chris, up to these days,been through your career?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
you're retired.
What do you got going on now?
What's Chris, up to these daysTending garden roses?
Once in a while I get a callabout it's been about two or
three years.
Well gosh, it's been five yearsnow.
I got a call to take someengineers down to the river
Delta in Nigeria because theywere planning on putting a
pipeline in.
So I talked to some friendsI've got who had security
(37:34):
companies out there and we got alittle QRF organized and I went
with them, went on that trip.
But then it came to me that youknow you're over 60 now and
chugging around in this littleboat like Humphrey Bogart's boat
out of the African Queen andclimbing up cargo ladders
probably shouldn't be doing thisanymore.
(37:54):
So I write books and I consult.
If there's guys coming out theywant to know about contracting,
I'll talk to them.
Ranger's got a Ranger for Lifeprogram for kids coming out,
help them transition.
So I'm one of the advisorsworking with them on that and we
try to help the young kids whoare coming out.
(38:14):
How is your son doing?
Doing pretty good.
He's up in New York State.
Didn't want to go to college,didn't want to study, dropped
out, had a bit of a rough lifefor a while.
Finally started studyingcomputer programming that he
didn't want to study in collegeRead all the books, taught
himself, recently got hisbachelor degree.
He's a software engineer upthere doing really well Good
(38:38):
deal.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
It's good to hear.
This has been fascinatinghearing your story, hearing who
you are, when you look back oneverything and you look back on
your career.
Is there a moment in the careerwhere you were like you know
this was the moment where youknow I knew things.
Or was there a favorite momentDo you have?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
any kind of favorite moments.
Looking back, I really likedwhat I did in seventh group and
first group.
Those are things, those arememories I carry for a lifetime,
and great people.
I think we had an impact, Ithink we did some good things
that will last for a long time,and that's what really matters.
You see, sf at that point intime wasn't about shooting
people.
Sf still isn't really aboutshooting people, and that's what
(39:21):
makes it different for themilitary, because when there's
only six of you, or 12 of youout there, all by yourself, a
long, long way from home, you'reprobably not going to win very
many gunfights.
If it comes down to that,there's almost always going to
be a lot more of them than thereare of you.
So the key to success isworking with the people that are
(39:43):
out there, helping them,understanding what's important
to them, helping them getthrough what they got to get
through so that they'll help youcome out of there alive.
And that's the important thingof SF.
Yeah, you got to be able toshoot, because if you're going
to have to shoot you better notmiss.
Ideally, it does never come tothat.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Chris, this has been fascinating.
Thank you so much for coming onJourney with Jake.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
A huge thank you to Chris Brewer for joining me and
sharing his powerful story.
It's not every day you get aglimpse into the world of
Special Forces and the deeplypersonal journey of those
missions.
Be sure to check out his bookIn the Shadows Between the Wars.
It's gripping, revealing andfull of insight you won't find
anywhere else.
You can find it now on Amazon.
And while you're there, checkout Chris's other book, old
(40:29):
Scroll Ranger.
You can find it now on Amazon.
And while you're there, checkout Chris's other book, old
Scroll Ranger, also available onAmazon.
Thanks for spending part ofyour Fourth of July with me on
this bonus episode.
Journey with Jake will be backnext week with a brand new
episode featuring Cody Sudmeier,the founder of Spur Experiences
.
We'll dive into why experiencesoften matter more than things
and how you can start livingwith more adventure and meaning.
(40:51):
Until then, just remember it'snot always about the destination
as it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
Hey everyone, welcome to this bonus episode of
Journey with Jake, released justin time for the 4th of July.
I always like to release anepisode on a holiday if at all
possible, so here I am.
I had the privilege of speakingwith Chris Brewer, a former
Army Ranger and Special Forcesveteran, whose story really
moved me.
Chris opened up about his timein the military, the challenges
(00:21):
he's faced and the adventures ofbeing a Ranger and part of
Special Forces SF, as he callsit.
This was a good one.
I hope it resonates with you.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
(00:43):
Things about differentadventures this show will
entertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you also hear
the failures and trials eachguest faces and what they have
done or are doing to overcomethe hardships that come their
way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
(01:03):
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination, as it is about
the journey.
Thanks again for tuning in toJourney with Jake, the podcast,
(01:35):
where we dive into the storiesof everyday people doing
extraordinary things throughadventure, resilience and
purpose.
Today's bonus episode featuresChris Brewer, a former Army
Ranger and Special Forcesveteran whose journey goes far
beyond the battlefield.
Chris is also the author of Inthe Shadows.
Bonus episode features ChrisBrewer, a former Army Ranger and
Special Forces veteran whosejourney goes far beyond the
battlefield.
Chris is also the author of Inthe Shadows Between the Wars, a
book that shares previouslyclassified stories from deep
inside the world of specialoperations.
(01:56):
His story is raw, honest andincredibly inspiring.
I'm honored to share it withyou today.
Let's get to my conversationwith Chris Brewer, all right,
right, I'm excited today.
I have Chris Brewer with metoday.
Chris, welcome to Journey withJake.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it yeah,absolutely.
It's great to have you on board.
I'm excited to hear about yourjourney and who you are.
(02:17):
Before we dive into some ofthose experiences give us a
little background, kind of whereyou're from, where you grew up,
that sort of thing.
So we have a little backgroundon who Chris is.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Army brat Dad served for about 24 years.
I was the new kid in schoolevery year because he always
moved to the middle of theschool year.
That pretty much influencedwhere I was going from there.
So I went to North Georgia atthat time military college as a
cadet and was having challengespaying for it as I went through
debt.
There were a lot of thingsgoing on.
(02:47):
So I joined the 20th SpecialForces National Guard, now at
that time being only about 18 or19,.
The only thing I could qualifyfor was as a medic.
So I went to basic in 91 Bravo,came back to North Georgia, but
then I had a taste of being inuniform and out on my own and
having money in my pocket.
So I didn't last one moresemester and 1974, the 1st
(03:12):
Ranger Battalion was reactivated.
That was all over the news andI went down to the recruiting
office and I enlisted.
But being young and dumb,rather than just go there as a
medic, I said no, they'reRangers, I want to be infantry,
I demand to be sent to infantryAIT.
So I went right back to FortPolk, louisiana, where I'd been
(03:33):
through basic, went through AIT,went to jump school and linked
up with the 1st Ranger Battalionat Fort Stewart, georgia, in
the fall of 1974, in the middleof their activation test.
So as a brand new Cherry PFC Igot introduced to the Ranger
Battalion full time.
I wrote a book Old ScrollRanger that talks about that and
(03:56):
the first three years of theRanger Battalion, when we were
trying to figure out what aRanger Battalion could do
without killing everybody.
Then from there I went through aseries of things, wound up back
at Fort Benning, coming out ofa European tour.
I re-enlisted for the rangerdepartment because at that time
(04:16):
you had to be an instructor atsome point in your career.
So I said, all right, I'll gobe a ranger instructor down at
Fort Benning and then from thereI can go back to the bat I'd
just made E7.
Or I can go to SF.
You know, because I'd been upat Bottolt's with the guys up
there in 1st and 10th and I kindof caught the bug on Special
Forces.
Got in there, sergeant Majorlooked me in the eye and said
(04:40):
welcome boy, buy yourself ahouse, you'll be here for the
rest of your career.
At that time I only had abouteight years time of service and
I said oh, no, no, no, sergeantmajor.
You don't understand.
I'm just here to do my part, tobe an instructor and I'm going
back out to the field.
I said no, no, you're not the.
We are critically short ofdrill instructors.
And since you're here at FortBenning, you're going to be
(05:03):
selected.
You'll be here about two yearsand you'll come up.
And now it's a five-yearstabilized tour.
So you'll be on the trail forfive years.
That'll put you at about 15.
We'll get you back here for two, maybe, go to the airborne
department for a while andyou'll have your 20, you can
retire.
And I went oh hell, no, I'm notgoing to be a drill sergeant
(05:23):
for five years.
So I said well, I'm going backto the Ranger Bat.
And he laughed at me and saysnah, son, you just made E7.
There's like a three-yearwaiting list.
Drill will pick you up beforeyou even get considered.
So I looked and looked andthere was only one thing that
took priority over drillsergeant and that was officer
(05:45):
candidate school.
So I did the ultimate act ofbetrayal to the NCO Corps and I
went to OCS as an E7, became amere second lieutenant, went to
the 82nd for my platoon time.
Then I had to go to degreecompletion, since I didn't have
a four-year degree before I madecaptain, and I finally made it
(06:06):
to SFQC at about the age of 34.
The very cycle that theystarted their experiment with
selection and assessment and allthe things of just how bad do
you want to be here.
They were going to add to thecourse and got through that, got
into SF and retired out ofthere after 24 years.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Wow, okay, what a career.
I mean just all the things thatyou've done, amazing.
I want to go back to kind ofyou mentioned you're an army
brat kid, so you're movingaround.
You said like you were the newkid every year because of that,
because you were an army bratkid, that's kind of the life you
knew.
Is that kind of why you thought, hey, man, I'm just you know,
(06:49):
military is what I know, that'swhat I love, that's why I want
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, pretty much.
That was pretty well ingrainedinto me.
I did have one brief span whenI came out of the Ranger Bat in
1977.
We had incredible NCOs andofficers when we started and
then after the first three yearsall the originals started to go
(07:14):
out to the regular army and westarted to get new people coming
in.
And that was before we had ourown selection assessment.
So there was a lot of guys thatcame in that probably shouldn't
have been there.
Standards started droppingProbably shouldn't have been
there.
Standards started dropping butI'd been indoctrinated in the
hard life and I was disgusted soI said the hell with this.
I got out of the army, went tobe a civilian for about a year
(07:37):
and that's about all I couldtake and I came right back in.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's amazing how some people are just made for the
military life, and apparentlyyou were made for the military
life, family life for yougrowing up.
Obviously you're moving aroundevery year, siblings, anything
like that.
Are you the only child?
What's going on there?
Yeah, I got a younger brother.
Okay, is he a military guy aswell, or?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
no, he spent some time in the Navy and then he got
out.
He did a lot better as acivilian than I did.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Gotcha.
Okay, so for him it was moreset up for him, but not not for
you.
So much Wow, 24 years, amazing.
I want to hear about some ofthese, these experiences you've
had in any you know pivotalmoments that you had, because
this is journey with Jake's, anadventure podcast, but it's
about who you are in yourjourney.
So I would love to know youknow just some of you know, your
special forces, your ranger.
(08:24):
I mean that people think of,especially nowadays.
You think of rangers.
You're like, wow, those youknow those guys are pretty
intense, pretty good, and so Ikind of want to hear some of
your stories of maybe a fewpivotal moments that you had.
That were.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Just, you know, reflect that.
You reflect back down and think, wow, that was a, that was a
pivotal moment, Something thatthat helped shape who you are.
Certainly the Ranger Bat,Because we got there when they
started up.
Every NCO and every officer inthe Ranger Battalion had combat
experience in Vietnam.
Most of them were the survivorsof the long-range
reconnaissance teams.
We had some SOG guys that werein there, but that was a hard
crew and they knew combat, theyknew what you had to do, so they
(09:06):
taught me things that carriedme through my whole career and
they definitely left a mark.
A lot of people have asked well,how did you transition from
being a ranger into SF?
And I really didn't.
I just I was a ranger in SF.
Going to SF, there was a lot ofgrowing, a lot of things that
(09:26):
you had to learn to kind of addto that template in order to be
successful there, and the secondbook talks about that.
There's a couple of chapters inthere where I'm learning that
not everybody is a ranger andthere's some things that you
have to do to get people to workwith you and for you.
Going out behind the barracksand resolving who's going to be
(09:47):
in charge doesn't always work inevery situation.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And when you say I mean just so I'm clear here when
you say SF, you're sayingspecial forces.
Right, that's what SF means.
Yeah, that's correct, perfect,okay, good, I just want to make
sure.
Hopefully that's what you'resaying.
But, yeah, perfect, I love it,I love, I love you military
folks too, with your, youracronyms and everything.
It's fun to hear.
So I may jump in every now andagain.
If I don't, if I'm like, whatdoes that mean?
So if you hear me doing that,it's because I'm ignorant to
(10:13):
what you, what you know, whatyou grew with.
So I may jump in every now andagain to ask that, because of
your experience, I want to knowabout some of the places you've
been, some of the experiencesand I know it's different
because, again, this being anadventure podcast, I have a lot
of people who go to thesedifferent places and they travel
around, but it's more, not somuch not necessarily tourist
(10:36):
places Some are, but they go ascivilians and, as for recreation
or for fun or to grow indifferent ways, for military
military, you're there forspecific purposes.
Can you tell us some of theplaces you've been and what some
of those places were like fromyour perspective in the military
?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah sure, ranger batch, you go in as a unit.
So you're going primarily totrain or you're going for
operations.
First three years we went toPanama, to Germany, for major
exercises there and then up tothe north slope of Alaska for
winter training.
So that was pretty much ourlife Environmental extremes is
the best way to describe it andhow to survive there while
(11:16):
you're doing what you need to do.
Sf was a different life.
We'd go a lot longer.
For one thing, I was on twooperational missions, for six
months each One.
We went to Columbia whenEscobar had just killed the
presidential candidate Galan andthe drug wars were going on,
and George Herbert Bush,president at that time, said
(11:40):
we're going to support thegovernment of Columbia while
they fight these narcoterrorists, but we will not send
American combat troops.
We got a mission.
They wanted to open up theirown medical corpsman school, but
since we couldn't send combattroops, we took six guys from my
ODA, myself included, and wewere reassigned over to
(12:01):
something called the SATMO,security Assistance Management
Training.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Office Gotcha and you said ODA.
What does ODA mean?
Operational Detachment?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Alpha 18.
18.
Gotcha, okay, acronyms again.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I'll try to.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
No, you're fine.
So they transferred us overthere because SATMO is all
doctors, nurses, logisticians,mechanics.
There's no real combat peoplethere.
It's a very benign organization.
So since we were reassigned toSATMO we didn't cross that line
of combat troops.
And then we flew into Bogota incivilian clothes, no guns.
(12:40):
We carried some survival gearin our civilian luggage and
radio.
And this was in the mid-70s orno correction, that was in the
late 80s.
Cell phones existed, but almostnobody had them.
Computers laptops really hadn'tcome out yet.
There really wasn't much of aninternet.
(13:05):
You'd come up on the air aboutonce a week or once a month on
that HF radio and report back toFort Bragg that yeah, we're
still alive.
What do you want us to do?
And they put it.
We got to the RSO office.
They told us that you guys aregoing to South Bogota where all
the fighting is, but you'regoing to be up on a mountain on
a military base and we can'tcome get you.
So once you're there, you'rethere until we come get you six
(13:25):
months later, call in once aweek, let us know if you're
still alive and tell us howthings are going.
And we stayed there for sixmonths.
There were things we needed todo.
So over a period of time we'dcome out and at that time there
were bombs going off every nightin Bogota.
There were shootings going on.
So coming out of the militarybase you didn't want to drive
(13:46):
out anyway because if you droveout you'd be spotted, you'd be
tailed and you'd probably getbombed.
So we'd walk out A littlebarrio right outside it was all
narrow alleys and the rest of itso we could dodge down one of
those alleys and kind of workour way down to the bottom of
the mountain.
We could dodge down one ofthose alleys and kind of work
our way down to the bottom ofthe mountain.
Down there taxis wouldn't comebecause it was too dangerous,
(14:08):
but buses would, oddly enough.
So we'd get a bus ride up untilthe city square and then from
there we could take a taxi to alittle coffee shop.
We'd hang out outside of theembassy where we'd check things
out for an hour or so to see ifit looked like anyone was
getting ready to blow somethingup, and then we'd cross into the
embassy and it got to the pointwhere we're pretty comfortable
(14:30):
moving around the city.
We were about the onlyAmericans who did so we'd come
in and we'd tell the RSO whatwas going on.
And yeah, there's this placecalled Abbott and Costillo's and
they go.
Yeah, the one that's got apicture of Laurel and Hardy on
the outside, yeah, but they callit Abbott and Costello's.
Well, guys, don't go down there, that's dangerous man.
(14:52):
We go down there every weekend.
That's where all the collegekids hang out, we have a beer
and we discuss politics.
And I said, yeah, they're allELP, they're terrorists.
No, they're college kids.
They set a bomb off at theuniversity, but that's about all
they do.
And since we were medicalpersonnel, we weren't considered
a threat.
When they'd ask what country wecame from Canada or I spoke a
(15:16):
little German so I'd say I wasGerman and we got along just
fine.
We went to Panama after thatbecause the invasion happened
while we were there.
And then, when they pulled usall the troops out, they put us
in down there because we spokeSpanish.
And when all the combat troopsAmerican combat troops went home
, they put us in every one ofthe cartels that used to be.
(15:39):
The Panamanian National Guardtold them that you're police,
now you have to take off allyour badges.
And they didn't like that atall and they said you guys in
the SF you live with them.
So if they're going to try topull a coup and take over the
government again, you let usknow.
You're tripwires and be sureyou report in every day, because
if you go three days withoutreporting in we'll know you're
(16:01):
dead and there's a problem outthere.
That was a fun six months andwe were there for a coup attempt
in Panama City and helped dealwith that at the very end Went
to first group in Okinawa.
I had my second A-team commandout there, commanded a company
twice.
Sf does a lot of differentthings.
(16:23):
Counterterrorism is one of them,and think about hostage rescue,
the guys with the body armorand all blowing the doors going
in, and that's one of the thingsthat Charlie Company does.
We do other things too and,being SF, sometimes we'd go to
places that had a lot ofproblems.
There's an American embassythere but they're worried and if
(16:43):
things go to hell we may needhelp to get out.
They call it a non-combatantevacuation.
So we'd go in there againcivilian clothes.
We were here a little bitlonger.
We'd go out and we'd go throughthe city where all the danger
spots were and figure out.
All right, if they've got toget out and we can't get a
(17:04):
helicopter in here, what's theroute to the airport?
And if that isn't going to work, where else can they go?
That we could probably be ableto get them out, and we check
all that out, come back, fileour reports and help them with
their NEO plans non-combatantevacuation order and then
Charlie Company would follow upon that, because if they got
into trouble, charlie Companywould be one of the
organizations that call on tohelp get them out.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Wow, I'm sitting here listening to these stories and
six months here.
Call in once a week and thatway we'll know you're still
alive.
It's just amazing and I knowobviously technology's changed
since then, so things areprobably a lot different now
with communication andeverything.
It's probably consistent and upto date and everything.
What was your situation likewhen you're in those situations
(17:45):
as far as did you have a familyat the time?
Were you married or anythinggoing on like that?
Or was it you just a single guy, Like what was happening with
you personally at the time?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
When I was an OCS I was married.
At the time I had a kid.
It didn't go well on thetransition for the family
because officer life's a lotdifferent than NCO life and the
wife wasn't having it.
There was a divorce and youdon't get custody at Fort Bragg
if you're the man, that's goingto automatically go to the wife.
So I lost custody of my son.
(18:16):
Halfway through the specialforces qualification course she
decided to give me custody so Igot custody of my son.
I became a single parent rightabout the time I graduated from
SF.
That was a really rough lifefor my son.
I had family members that wouldlook after him when I was gone.
I had good friends at FortBragg that had been friends for
(18:38):
years and he grew up with theirdaughters pretty much.
So he'd move in and he'd staywith them when I was gone and
they moved to Okinawa justbefore I got that assignment so
he'd stay with them when I wasout and about doing my thing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
How old was he at the time when you first started to
raise him as a single dad?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh gosh, he was not very old at all, seven or eight,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
How was that for you, when you were out on these
missions and you're in're, youknow, in columbia and panama,
places like that did it affectyou at all, or were you just
focused?
I mean, you got that militaryfocus where you're like you're,
you know you're doing what yougot to do.
Any thoughts going back to the,the summit, all in the q course
.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That was.
That was really rough before Igot custody because what he was
not in a good situation with myex, there wasn't anything I
could do about it.
But once he got over with me,the people that I had him with,
I had confidence in them, I feltcomfortable in that and, yeah,
I was focused on the job becauseyou pretty much had to be.
There was no room forinattention.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
When you're focused like you are, do you have any
time to even enjoy where you are?
Were there any parts of Panama,colombia, that you thought, wow
, this is beautiful, or thepeople here are good, or did you
have any moments like that atall?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
An American soldier will find a way to have some fun
anywhere in the world, nomatter how bad things get.
So yeah, there were moments Formost folks after I retired.
I did security contracting.
I spent five years inAfghanistan as a security
contractor and most of that ison the forward operating base,
the FOB.
(20:14):
They've got McDonald's, they'vegot Dairy Queen.
It's almost all the comforts ofhome inside the HESCOs.
What we did, we're never on abase.
We're out there living with thepeople, and the people that are
living out there they've gotlives too.
So if they're having a party,you're invited to the party and
you just learn the life thatthey're living?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
A question I always like to ask on this show because
it's an adventure podcast, butit's your journey and who you
are, and this has been greatgetting to know who you are.
For you, chris, when you thinkof the word adventure, what does
adventure mean to you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You're stepping off into the unknown.
You're going out to find outwhat's there.
You're going to learn things.
Sometimes you learn things youreally didn't want to know.
You're getting out of yourbubble and think about the
Afghanistan story where you'reliving in that bubble inside the
HESCOs, with the Dairy Queenand all the comforts.
When you go outside thoseHESCOs you're stepping off into
(21:07):
the unknown and you're not surewhat you're going to get.
And even when I was acontractor, there were times
that we'd be traveling around,one or two alone drew my beard
out, had my Pakul hat, had mygreen vest, had my little AK-47,
drive around in an oldrattletrap car.
You might get shot at byTaliban.
You might get shot at byTaliban.
You might get shot at bybandits.
(21:27):
You might get shot at by the USMarine Corps.
You didn't know what was goingto happen.
So you just got to keep yourwits about you and pay attention
to where you are and what'sgoing on around you,
hyper-focused.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I mean, it seems like you have to just be
hyper-focused.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and it's hard to come down off of that too.
It sticks with you for a while,especially on some of the bad
things that you'll see.
Some of that takes a long timeto.
It never really goes away, butit takes a long time for you to
go ahead and compartmentalizeand learn how to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I wanted to ask it.
That was a question I kind ofhad written down on my notes or
that I wanted to ask.
I wanted to ask about some ofthat, about some of that like
PTSD and things like that, withthings that you've seen and been
through, and you kind ofstarted talking about it right
now.
Yeah, talk about that a littlebit.
When you say it's hard to comeoff of that in the moment or
just over years, or what do you,what do you kind of mean by
that?
What's it like?
Cause I have, you know, I haveno idea I, and I'm curious of
(22:20):
what someone like you goesthrough mentally.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
PTSD takes a lot of different forms for different
people and depending on whatyou've been through and what
your background is.
The one thing that stuck withme it was very difficult for
years for me to go to sleepwithout checking the perimeter.
I cannot go to bed until I'vechecked every door to make sure
it's locked cameras, alarms andfor a long time if I didn't have
a loaded gun right where Icould put my hand on it, I could
(22:49):
not sleep.
Got over that over a period oftime.
Sudden noises you know youinstantly come awake.
I learned not to keep a firearmwithin reach because you're
instinctively going to reach forthat firearm before you're
fully awake.
And when you have a kid and youhave other people in the house,
that's not a good combination.
You know what a botan is.
(23:10):
It's kind of a wooden sword,gotcha Okay, same size as a
katana.
Do really good if you got tobeat the daylights out of
somebody, if you know how to useit.
So you put a botan next to thebed where you can reach out and
grab that and you're not goingto kill anybody.
But you got something that youcan push them away and then
whack them over the head if youneed to Until your brain cycles
(23:31):
in as to who's in the room andyou teach the kids don't come in
and wake daddy up, turn thelight on at the door and say hey
dad.
And over time you learn toadjust to all that.
Loss of friends and injuries.
I was fortunate I never gotseriously injured.
I got blown up a few times.
First time I got blown up 107hit, not in the bee huts, for
(23:58):
what we lived in.
Think about a 20 by 40 footwood building that's all made
out of plywood and then they putcompartments inside, so you've
got a little 10-by-10 livingarea.
We had a 107 rocket that came inand hit.
It didn't hit our B-hut, but ithit the one right next to it.
It knocked me completely out ofmy bunk onto the floor.
(24:20):
When it hits it takes away allthe oxygen because that
explosive just O2 is gone.
So you wake up.
The first thing that goesthrough your mind is I can't
breathe.
Since it hit the other one.
The shrapnel when it wentthrough the walls of that one
came through the outer wall ofours, passed through my room,
through the plywood on the otherside and went into the hall.
(24:42):
But all the fragments missed me, fortunately.
So I'm on the floor lying onsplinters, smoke, can't breathe,
the concussion was enough thatyou just knock down and then you
get outside and then you seethe other one and you see the
effects of what happened overthere.
And that leaves an impression,certainly.
(25:02):
But the thing that stuck with methe most is that after the
medics came they took away thedead and wounded and after EOD
came and checked all the stuffthat was left, everybody goes
back to sleep because it's themiddle of the night.
So you go back into your roomthat's now full of holes and got
splinters everywhere andthere's shrapnel in the hallway
as you walk in and that'sanother three, four hours till
(25:25):
daylight Right and could not,obviously could not sleep.
You take your body armor offand you put that up against the
wall where you're sleeping,where your head will be next to
the wall.
That helps a little bit,because one of the things you
saw was a guy who lost part ofhis head in the one next door.
You eventually get past that.
(25:45):
You learn to deal with it.
I'm alive.
It didn't happen to me.
It could happen, but it didn't.
So you got a job to do.
So you got to pick up and moveon.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I'm just baffled by that.
That's just wow.
I mean, yeah, of course, howwould?
How would you go back to sleep?
It's amazing to me that youdidn't get seriously injured.
That's incredible.
But seeing all that, dealingwith all of that for you, you
know, mentally, I mean, is itjust a time thing?
Do you think, I mean, for you,is it just kind of over time, it
(26:19):
kind of slowly gets better, ordo you still have moments today
where you think about thingslike that and it affects you?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Moments.
You know you'll see or hear orsmell something that kind of
triggers, something that kind oftriggers, but if you recognize
it for what it is, you let it gothrough.
You know, okay, that's comingfrom this part of my head over
here.
That's that memory.
It's not happening right now.
And being with rangers forthree years, that helped a lot,
believe it or not, because wedid live fires constantly and we
(26:47):
didn't do live fire exerciseslike most units do, most units.
You go to a range.
It's tightly controlled, leftand right limits.
There's safety officers whomove here shoot four rounds.
Stop all of that kind of thing.
Rangers don't do that.
You'll go pick out a piece ofterrain, woods, jungle, whatever
(27:08):
it may be.
There'll be an objective set upwith targets and at first
you'll have guys that'll be upthere playing opposition forces
and it's all blank fire for that.
So you'll go through and you'llwalk through what you would do
on this, through the terrain.
You'll come back and thenyou'll blank fire.
There'll be guys up on theobjective with blanks shooting
(27:30):
at you and you're shooting backat them and you've got
pyrotechnics to make explosionsand all of this.
But it's relatively safe.
You'll do that.
Then you'll do it at night.
And then you'll come back andyou'll walk through again and
then you'll do it during the daywith real bullets, but there's
paper targets instead of peopleup there.
But when you're doing it withreal bullets, you've got real
(27:52):
explosives.
You've got real hand grenades,you've got real mortar rounds.
You've got real machine guns.
The only thing that's missingis people shooting back at you.
And then you'll do it at night,and in those days we had no
night vision equipment, soyou're doing this in complete
darkness, except for muzzleflashes and flares and whatever
else you can get.
So you do that over a period ofyears.
(28:14):
You get used to a lot of thisstuff and we had injuries, we
had people killed in jumps, wehad people injured in live fire,
so you'd see a little bit ofblood.
You learn to deal with it, youlearn to be accustomed, you
learn what needs to be done.
That helps in the long run.
I think that some of the peoplethat suffer the worst are like
the Rangers.
Now I saw those kids.
(28:35):
They go out on a six-monthdeployment or a 90-day
deployment.
They go out and hit targetsevery night.
Sometimes two or three targetsin one night.
That's a lot to load up on thepsyche.
That's going to take a longtime.
I was fortunate and I got minein little doses with periods in
between to go ahead and learn todeal with it and learn to
(28:56):
compartment it and move forward.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
The things that you've been through are just
incredible.
Just amazing when you're inthese hostile environments.
What would you say are thewhat's the biggest challenge of
being in these hostileenvironments?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There's a lot of challenges.
There was always a cycle on thesix months deployment that we'd
have.
Now your your first month, orfour to five weeks, you know
you're the adrenaline's up,you're a little bit
hypervigilant, you're trying tobe cautious.
By the fourth or fifth weekYou've been shot at a couple of
times there's been someexplosions go off.
(29:32):
You're like, okay, we'd be inBogota going down to get
something to eat on a weekend.
Bomb would go off out in thestreet, machine gun fire would
go.
You'd stop, look, okay, I'm notcoming in here.
You go back to eating your mealand just we'll go out the other
way instead of going out thatway.
They're going to be busy outthere for a while and then you
(29:54):
get to.
After the third month you'repretty much settled in.
You know your way around.
This is business as usual.
By the fourth month you'regetting tired of it.
You know I really want to gohome.
This isn't going to ever changeand this isn't going to how I
want to live my life.
And we just had one or twobrushes too much.
Last month is the toughestbecause you know you're going
(30:18):
and you don't want to get taggedin that last month, so that
hypervigilance starts to comeback again.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That makes sense.
Yeah, I, it's funny.
That's interesting to kind ofhear the cycle of it and I kind
of go through as it cyclesthrough the six months.
It's quite interesting.
I want to ask you about yourbook because I know you wrote a
book.
It's called In the ShadowsBetween the Wars, if I'm not
mistaken.
Why did you want to write thisbook and tell me a little bit
about the?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
book.
First one is Old Skrull Rangerand that's just soldier stories
from the Ranger Bat when itfirst started.
There's some funny stories.
There's what it was like in1974 in Hinesville, georgia.
That's good for a chuckle ortwo.
I'd recommend that the otherone took a different approach,
because that was Columbia was atop secret SCI, because while we
(31:08):
were there our mission wasn'tnecessarily top secret, but
while we were there we gottagged with another mission to
go out and help some people thatwere TSSCI that were in the
valley between Medellin andBogota.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Okay, stop you for a second.
Say that acronym again TSSCI.
What was that?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Top secret special compartmented information.
Wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Okay, okay, so there was a group, that okay, and then
you were saying Tom, I thinkyou're talking about Tom Clancy,
if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, remember Tom Clancy's book Clear and Present
Danger and there was a movie.
This was in the valley wherethe book action was concerned.
There were Americans in thatvalley that were being
threatened by Escobar.
There were Americans in thatvalley that were being
threatened by Escobar and, sincewe were in Bogota, the embassy
came down and said can you help?
And I said man, I've got sixguys who are running a school.
(31:59):
I mean there's not much we cando.
But the embassy said please,just, we've got a Colombian
general officer's private plane.
He'll fly you down to this base, colombian Air Force Base.
Just get in there and see whatyou can do.
The Colombians won't let usbring anyone out from outside.
Sween clothes, our blackleather jackets, our beretta and
(32:20):
our shoulder holster.
We walked down, caught the bus,caught the taxi, got down there
what's going on?
We brought along a uniform anda little day pack and we had
what we had, you know, a coppicefirst aid dressings.
There wasn't really much we had.
They flew us down there and wespent about two days, two or
(32:41):
three days helping those folksout, got Escobar to back down
and after he backed down andleft, they called us and said
okay, you can come back toBogota.
Great job.
I said okay.
Well, when's the plane coming?
He said, well, you know thegeneral's really busy, but you
guys are green berets, you canmake it on your own right.
I said, dude, we just got hisguys to back off.
(33:04):
They're outside the fence ofthis base.
They're pissed at us, they'dlove to get their hands on us.
Well, so we finally got them tosend a guy that we knew, whose
mother lived in the village downthere, and he came down in an
old, beat up Toyota stationwagon with one headlight out to
(33:24):
see his mom.
We threw a chicken in a cage inthe back, put our civilian
clothes back on, got in with himand we rode right through
Escobar's controlled area backto Bogota.
That was kind of the norm forsome of these things.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Wow, that's amazing.
This is all you talk about thisin that book all of this.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, and that's why the second book took about six
or eight months to get out,because I had to go to
Department of Defensepre-publication approval.
They sent it out to SpecialOperations Command, socom, to
Southern Command, southcom, toPacific Command, pacom, and
(34:06):
there's a story in there wherewe were plainclothes working
with the State Department.
So it had to go to theDepartment of State and some
other people and it took aboutsix months to make the rounds
and they came back and thedifferent agencies disagreed
with one another on what wasclassified and what wasn't.
So they had to send it outagain with additional
(34:26):
instructions.
It finally came back and theysaid, all right, fine, what the
hell, we don't care, it's beenmore than 30 years, it doesn't
matter anyway, but don't usethis acronym.
Okay, well, what acronym do youwant me to use?
And they gave me a differentthree letter acronym I've never
heard of before.
All right, I'll use that.
So in the book as we go through, I'll mention, because a lot of
(34:49):
the guys that I worked with aregetting this book.
So, look, I know this acronymis not the one we used, but
we're not allowed to say thatwe're using this one that you've
never heard of, but you knowwho we're talking about this
book is legit, then I mean, thisis literally stuff that was
classified, that no one knewabout for 30 plus years ago.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You went through the proper channels to make sure you
were good to go, so you'retelling these stories about real
things.
I mean, this is like the stuffthat actually happened to Chris
Brewer.
This is amazing.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, now there's the first couple of chapters that
are about getting your mindright to go into special forces.
That's before I went.
There's a chapter that's on theQ course.
When it was turning intoselection assessment, a colonel
came down when we got there,fort Bragg, and he said welcome
to the qualification course.
You men will not go through thecourse I went through.
(35:43):
Yours is going to be harder, alot harder, because we need
tough people, because we'regoing to make SF into a separate
branch.
We're going to experiment withsome things.
If it hurts too many people, wewon't do that, we'll change it.
But if you don't pass thisfirst cycle, you'll be recycled
and you will have to go toselection assessment before you
get to start again.
So it was game on, you know.
(36:05):
Oh hell, no, I ain't gettingrecycled, I ain't doing this
shit twice.
But then you get into thestories.
Columbia was classified, panamawas classified.
There's some parts of Panama Ican't talk about and you may
pick up on.
There's something missing here.
And you're right, most ofPacific and Okinawa was very
(36:27):
classified.
There was one thing in thererelative to the State Department
they really didn't want to talkabout, but they finally let
that go.
So, yeah, there's some goodstories in there.
It'll give you some insightwhat goes on.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Absolutely as far as the book In the Shadows Between
the Wars in your other.
Tell me again the name of theother book Old Scroll Ranger.
Old Scroll Ranger Gotcha.
Where can people find the books?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They're on Amazon.
The second one now has an audiobook that's out as well.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
They're on Kindle, the usual places Barnes and
Noble, walmart most of theplaces you can find it, but
Amazon's the easiest one.
Very good, excellent,Appreciate that.
Now that you've done that,you've been through your career,
you're retired.
What do you got going on now?
What's Chris, up to these days,been through your career?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
you're retired.
What do you got going on now?
What's Chris, up to these daysTending garden roses?
Once in a while I get a callabout it's been about two or
three years.
Well gosh, it's been five yearsnow.
I got a call to take someengineers down to the river
Delta in Nigeria because theywere planning on putting a
pipeline in.
So I talked to some friendsI've got who had security
(37:34):
companies out there and we got alittle QRF organized and I went
with them, went on that trip.
But then it came to me that youknow you're over 60 now and
chugging around in this littleboat like Humphrey Bogart's boat
out of the African Queen andclimbing up cargo ladders
probably shouldn't be doing thisanymore.
(37:54):
So I write books and I consult.
If there's guys coming out theywant to know about contracting,
I'll talk to them.
Ranger's got a Ranger for Lifeprogram for kids coming out,
help them transition.
So I'm one of the advisorsworking with them on that and we
try to help the young kids whoare coming out.
(38:14):
How is your son doing?
Doing pretty good.
He's up in New York State.
Didn't want to go to college,didn't want to study, dropped
out, had a bit of a rough lifefor a while.
Finally started studyingcomputer programming that he
didn't want to study in collegeRead all the books, taught
himself, recently got hisbachelor degree.
He's a software engineer upthere doing really well Good
(38:38):
deal.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
It's good to hear.
This has been fascinatinghearing your story, hearing who
you are, when you look back oneverything and you look back on
your career.
Is there a moment in the careerwhere you were like you know
this was the moment where youknow I knew things.
Or was there a favorite momentDo you have?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
any kind of favorite moments.
Looking back, I really likedwhat I did in seventh group and
first group.
Those are things, those arememories I carry for a lifetime,
and great people.
I think we had an impact, Ithink we did some good things
that will last for a long time,and that's what really matters.
You see, sf at that point intime wasn't about shooting
people.
Sf still isn't really aboutshooting people, and that's what
(39:21):
makes it different for themilitary, because when there's
only six of you, or 12 of youout there, all by yourself, a
long, long way from home, you'reprobably not going to win very
many gunfights.
If it comes down to that,there's almost always going to
be a lot more of them than thereare of you.
So the key to success isworking with the people that are
(39:43):
out there, helping them,understanding what's important
to them, helping them getthrough what they got to get
through so that they'll help youcome out of there alive.
And that's the important thingof SF.
Yeah, you got to be able toshoot, because if you're going
to have to shoot you better notmiss.
Ideally, it does never come tothat.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Chris, this has been fascinating.
Thank you so much for coming onJourney with Jake.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
A huge thank you to Chris Brewer for joining me and
sharing his powerful story.
It's not every day you get aglimpse into the world of
Special Forces and the deeplypersonal journey of those
missions.
Be sure to check out his bookIn the Shadows Between the Wars.
It's gripping, revealing andfull of insight you won't find
anywhere else.
You can find it now on Amazon.
And while you're there, checkout Chris's other book, old
(40:29):
Scroll Ranger.
You can find it now on Amazon.
And while you're there, checkout Chris's other book, old
Scroll Ranger, also available onAmazon.
Thanks for spending part ofyour Fourth of July with me on
this bonus episode.
Journey with Jake will be backnext week with a brand new
episode featuring Cody Sudmeier,the founder of Spur Experiences
.
We'll dive into why experiencesoften matter more than things
and how you can start livingwith more adventure and meaning.
(40:51):
Until then, just remember it'snot always about the destination
as it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.
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