Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What do you do when
you're told you have stage four
cancer?
If you're Tom Barrett, youchoose to live fully,
intentionally and with heart.
In this inspiring episode ofJourney with Jake, Tom opens up
about his diagnosis, his lovefor the present moment and how
adventure fuels his soul.
It's a powerful reminder thatthe most extraordinary journeys
(00:20):
often begin in life's hardestmoments.
Time to embrace the cold withTom Barrett.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
(00:41):
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you also hear
the failures and trials eachguest faces and what they have
done or are doing to overcomethe hardships that come their
way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
(01:04):
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination, as it is about
the journey.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
(01:25):
I'm your host, Jake Bushman,and I'm so glad you're here.
If you haven't already, be sureto follow me on Instagram at
Journey with Jake Podcast.
Subscribe on YouTube to watchthe full episodes and don't
forget Journey with Jake is partof the Podmatch Podcast Network
.
Check out podmatchcom forwardslash network for some other
fantastic shows from independentpodcasters like myself.
(01:46):
Today's episode is with TomBarrett, a former corporate
accountant, turned adventurestoryteller and author of
powerful books like living whiledying, chasing my Northern
lights and more.
Tom is not only living withstage four cancer.
He's redefining what it meansto truly live.
And if this conversationinspires you, you'll definitely
enjoy episode 162 with JeremyGeorge, an incredible story of
(02:10):
bucket list adventures andliving with intention.
Let's dive in with Tom Barrett.
Well, this is exciting for me.
I've got Tom Barrett with mejoining me today.
Tom, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hey, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, this is
exciting for me.
I first saw some informationabout you and I'm like, wow,
this guy's adventurous, he's outthere traveling around, he's
embracing the cold.
I think that's the title of oneof your books.
I see all these pictures of youwith snow in the background and
just outside doing things.
I'm excited to hear your story,especially about what you're
going through, what you havegoing on in your life right now,
(02:43):
and I'm excited to hear aboutthat.
Before we jump into all that,though, tom, just give me a
little background where you'refrom, where you grew up, that
sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So I'm a Cape Codder.
For those of me that know that,it's on the east coast, just
south of Boston somewhat.
It's a resort area.
It's a big spot for beaches andstuff like that.
So I grew up here and I nowlive here, I retired here, love
the area.
I was gone for about 30 years,actually living a life working
out of Boston, where I was apartner at a firm called
(03:19):
PricewaterhouseCoopers.
My adventure started actuallywhen I started working, because
the area that I focused on in1978 were topics that were
accounting and technology, andat that time technology was not
really well defined in thebusiness world and what we see
and do today is wholly different.
And so when I jumped into it in78, I wanted to get engaged in
(03:42):
the technology side, but Ididn't know if it was going to
last right?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Is this a?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
fad.
That's why I went with theaccounting, because you always
need accountants, you needsomeone to count the money.
So, anyway, I went to school inBoston, worked out of Boston,
spent some time traveling aroundthe world for work, but it was
very enjoyable.
I loved my job, but I alsoliked retiring.
I retired at 55 with a purpose,no matter where I was in terms
(04:08):
of my career.
I wanted to stop at 55 becauseadventures, expeditions, were
really important to me and Iwanted to have a different
lifestyle.
I wanted to have a differentchapter.
I just didn't want to be notedas the guy that was an
accountant.
I wanted to know the guy thatdid some weird stuff.
So that's what I did, that'swhat I do.
And while I'm on the Cape inbetween trips, I actually take
(04:31):
advantage of being down herebecause kayaking is super here.
But I'm also a woodcrafter.
I build furniture.
It's mostly on design for otherpeople.
You know I get commissioned todo stuff.
That's what I do when I'm not,you know, off hitting the polar
regions or down in Antarctica orwherever else I go.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Gotcha Okay, very
good.
And family life, any kids,anything like that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I've got two
daughters.
They're in their 30s.
One's on the West Coast, one'son the East Coast.
They're doing quite well.
One's an architect and one'sworking for an accounting firm.
Surprise, surprise, they areboth extremely penchant for
travel.
I don't know where they gotthat from, but maybe you know
sometimes, when you leave byexample, some people follow, and
(05:14):
certainly they have.
So they're big travelers aswell.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, you said you
retired with a purpose, and the
purpose was to get out theremore and travel more.
Why is travel so important toyou?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That's a great, great
question.
And it's changed over time,right, it's changed over time.
Before I remember thisdistinctly, in 1996, I don't
know if it was a midlife crisisor not, but I was 40.
I said to myself there'ssomething missing in my life.
I mean I wasn't complainingabout it, might you?
Because I had a great career,growing family, you know, I
(05:48):
coached him in different sports,very active.
We went and did our vacationstogether and it was great.
I mean, I couldn't complainabout that part.
But there was something stillmissing, right, I needed to feel
challenged in doing things.
I mean, I certainly feltchallenged at work, but I wanted
to take it to a different space.
I wanted to be able to use theskill sets I was acquiring from
(06:11):
my left side and apply it to myright side.
Adventure was really a part ofthe right side, because I could
be creative in what I did.
I can pursue things in usingdifferent venues to experience
it, whether it's kayaking,hiking, you know, climbing,
skiing, whatever.
And I also realized that, inorder for me to still be engaged
at work, I needed to find a wayto recharge my batteries.
(06:35):
And I found that travel, andparticularly I don't want to say
travel adventure.
I needed to be doing something.
I mean, I'm not a museum guy,I'm not going to go to Paris, go
to Louvre, I'm not going to go,you know, london, and watch the
Big Ben, right.
I mean, I need to go someplacewhere there is activity
associated to it.
So, whether it's, you know,doing a bike tour from Czech
(06:57):
Republic to Budapest, right, orkayaking for two or three weeks
up in the Prince William Sound,those are things that I
gravitated to when I was younger.
To me, it was about the feats,it was about the miles, it was
about the accomplishment, butnow it's more about the
experience, about in-depthlearning something about the
(07:18):
area, and so I found that to bevery important.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So I think you kind
of answered a question that I
ask a lot on this podcast.
I always like to ask whatadventure means to you, and you
kind of answered that a littlebit with what you were saying.
So just tell us again for you,what does adventure mean?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, it's funny.
I was on another podcast andthey asked a similar question.
I said you know, for meadventure doesn't start until
you have a problem where you'rechallenged to figure something
out, right, whether it's, youknow.
So you could be doing a nicebackcountry trip, cross-country
skiing, right, and you know,enjoying all the sights.
That's not really an adventure,that's just maybe a hike.
(08:00):
Or you know I'm going to runfor fitness, but if my boot
comes apart or I end up in asteep area where you know I'm
going to run for fitness, but ifmy boot comes apart or I end up
in a steep area where you knowthere's a challenge to it, now
the adventure begins.
And that's for me what theadventure is.
So I want to put myself inpositions or places where I'm
challenged and you've got tofigure out how to overcome, how
(08:24):
to enjoy it.
Still right, because if it's aproblem that takes you home,
then you haven't really doneyour thing.
It's about overcoming it andthat's, to me, the adventure
part.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I love that.
I don't think I've had anyonequite say it that way before.
A lot of people talk aboutbeing out of your comfort zone,
things like that.
That's an interesting way tolook at it, like the adventure
doesn't start until you have,until there's a problem or a
challenge to overcome.
I think that's a great way tolook at it and I think that's
where all of our memory you knowour strongest memories you
talked about now you're kind offocusing on just like the
(08:57):
experience of things I thinkthat's where it comes from are
those moments.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right it comes from?
Are those moments Right?
I mean, I give one example.
I'm skiing with a bunch of guysWell, actually there's three of
us.
We're backcountry skiing.
We happen to be going fromCrested Butte to Aspen right as
a five-day trip.
We're doing a hut-to-hut kindof thing, right, it was pretty.
You know, we were having agreat time.
The steeps were there, the podwas there, it was good.
But it wasn't until I fell offa cliff of about 15 feet with a
(09:29):
full backpack and landed on myface that I said, whoa, okay,
now it's getting real.
Now the adventure begins, right, how do I get up?
How do I, you know, figure thisout?
How do I, you know, withouthurting yourself, get on to the
next point?
And I have all kinds ofexamples where things go wrong,
but I'm alive to talk about it.
(09:50):
So that's what it's about.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Speaking of being
alive, I think one of the
biggest challenges you arefacing is a cancer diagnosis
that you have.
Tell me about that.
Can you take me back to themoment when you kind of first
received it and kind of what'sgoing on with you with that Take
?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
me back to the moment
when you kind of first received
it and kind of what's going onwith you with that?
It's been a, it's been a, Ithink I was diagnosed in 2015.
My first, my first diagnosis,and I really didn't think too
much about it, right, because II've had cancer before I had
colon cancer and I had skincancer and the approach by the
docs then was remove it.
Right, ok, you got some.
You know, you got some cancerin the colon, let's remove it.
(10:25):
Right, okay, you got some.
You know you got some cancer inthe colon, let's remove it.
You got some skin cancer, let'sremove it.
And it never came back.
I said, okay, well, we'll justremove the you know the prostate
.
And I figured I'd be okay.
And I was for a couple years.
And right after that, right in2016, I decided that I wanted to
become a ski bum.
So I built myself a camper,throw it in the back of my truck
and lived out of that for threeor four months at a time and
(10:48):
you know I have got a max passor a icon pass or wherever the
ski passes are today and thenjust went west and followed the
snow and I did that for fouryears and it was lovely.
But unfortunately, in 2019,when I came back from one of my
trips, I wasn't feeling verywell.
So I went back to the docks andthe cancer had come back.
So I had to go through a wholehost of radiation treatments, et
(11:09):
cetera.
That pretty much took fourmonths of treatments to get
through.
And then, when I finished upwith that 2019, I said, well,
we're going to.
You know, I started to skiagain, but that's when COVID
came about and I had to stayhome.
But at 220, I decided, well,I'm going to go back on the road
again and instead of leavingfor only two or three months, I
(11:30):
left for six months.
But it wasn't until 2024 that Iwas actually diagnosed with
stage four, and that wasdifficult.
It was like someone had sockedme in the stomach, right,
because, like, up to this point,I could manage the cancer right
, I could still take treatments,and I could.
(11:51):
There was a chance of fightingit.
But when you hit stage four,it's terminal.
So it's no like, oh, there's nomore I can do about it.
I now have to learn how to livewith it.
That was, it has been achallenge because there are days
and, like we had this podcast afew weeks ago and I couldn't
make it because it was just oneof those bad days where the
(12:13):
nausea and fatigue were just toomuch.
And that's also when I startedto change my mindset about
travel, where the experience,the immersion, were more
important, because I couldn't, Icouldn't carry the backpack
anymore, I couldn't, you know,push myself like I used to, and
so I had to think about how Icould take even more out of that
trip.
(12:33):
And going slower, believe it ornot, accomplish that Right.
And I've got lots of storieswhere you know, for instance,
since 2024, I have kayaked offthe coast of Antarctica.
I've hiked to Patagonia, interms of both Argentina and
Chile.
I was in Bolivia, in terms ofhitting the high roads up there,
(12:59):
in terms of the deserts.
And then, last month or twomonths ago, I was in Scotland,
not so much to do the highlands,but I did a kayaking tour
around the islands of Scotland.
It was most amazing.
And then next month I'm headingto Iceland and Greenland and
then taking a trip up to theNorthwest Passage.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
All of this with
stage four cancer, terminal
cancer, basically Yep.
What do you do?
How do you manage the partswhere, like you said, you know,
you and I were supposed to talka week or so ago and you weren't
feeling good, you couldn't doit?
How do you manage the travelwhen that happens?
Because I know that's got tohappen while you travel?
You got to have plans, you gotto be prepared for certain
(13:43):
things that come up.
How does that all play into itfor you?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I'm a planner, I like
to plan.
And so for me, back in the day,when I would go off on my two
or three week trips, solobackcountry and I usually do
this in the wintertime I'm not a.
I don't like the summer interms of it's too hot, I want to
be in the beach, I don't wantto be hiking in some mountain,
but that to me is a big deal.
And so now, with the cancerpart, I've got to make sure that
(14:07):
I've dealt with all the thingsI need to to your questions,
right.
So there's just one more thingI have to add to the planning
Now, one thing I didn't have inmy planning, but we'll have it
going forward.
So when I was in Bolivia, stagefour, I didn't think too much
about what it meant to be inBolivia, right, I mean, I just
thought it was a beautiful areaand I was going to do all kinds
(14:27):
of activities.
So we were in the desert and wewere at 18,000 feet and I
didn't only suffer AMS altitudesickness, I had HAPE, right.
So I started having a pulmonaryedema, I had fluid starting to
build up in my lungs, and thequestion I never asked my guides
were what's your medicalawareness and what do you have
(14:51):
for medical devices like oxygen?
I mean, at that height that's apossibility, right?
I didn't ask them that questionand come to find out they had.
No, they didn't have any kindof skill sets on medical and
thankfully I'm a, I have my, I'ma wilderness first aid
responder so I can, I can dealwith it.
(15:11):
But they didn't have oxygen andthat's what I needed, Cause I
didn't realize that I was at 72%to 76% in terms of my oxygen
intake and normally, well, youneed to be at.
If you're normal, at sea level,it's 96%, If you're at altitude
(15:32):
, it's 93%.
I was at 72% and I waswondering why I couldn't move.
I was fatigued, I was sick, myheadache and then I was starting
to cough like there's notomorrow.
It took seven hours to get tothe closest medical facility and
even that it was, I don't know.
It was two people, a doctor anda nurse, that's it.
(15:52):
Anyhow, they took care of me.
I have to be mindful of where Iam, what the risks are in terms
of the kinds of things I couldexperience, even as a normal
individual.
Because it gets right, you know, it gets accentuated because I
have the problems I have right.
(16:13):
So I just do my homework and Ialso communicate with people.
That says, listen, this is mysituation and if I start slowing
down or if I just want to stop,they respect that because I've
explained to them what's takingplace.
And sometimes when we'retrekking, like when I was down
in Patagonia, and there's agroup of us, I just say, yeah, I
got to stop.
You know, if you're coming backthis way, then you can find me.
(16:33):
And I just spent my two orthree hours sitting back looking
at the clouds, looking atwhat's around me, and it's like
this isn't too bad Slowness isgood.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Is there any fear of
I don't know if fear is the
right word, but you know, withthis stage four cancer, I mean
you could die at any moment.
Really.
I mean, is there any fear of,you know, being away from home
or being on a track or somethingand passing away?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Have you ever seen
the samurai with Tom Cruise?
And the samurai who actuallypassed on the battlefield Right,
and just as he was passing hesaw visions of cherry blossoms
and his last words out of hismouth was perfect Right, because
he died on the battlefield.
Well, for me, traveling's mybattlefield and if I die out
(17:23):
there, it's like there's not abetter way to go.
You know, and I can say thisbecause when I was down in
Antarctica last year, I didcapsize right, and I found
myself underneath the water andthinking is this how it goes, is
this how I die?
And my reaction was well, itwon't be too bad.
(17:44):
That'd be a great story, agreat thing to put on your
gravestone.
Died while he was out, you know,doing what he loved.
So, no, I don't, I'm notfearful of that, right, I'm not
fearful of that.
I'd rather die that way thanbeing in a freaking hospital
Right, with all kinds of tubesand being prolonged for an
indefinite period of time.
So, no, it's not a worry, but Ialso, you know, I'm not looking
(18:07):
to it.
I also am doing all themitigation I need to be doing
from a risk perspective so thatI won't, but that's not a reason
for me not to go won't, butthat that's not a reason for me
not to go gotcha.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So you're still,
you're prepared.
You're like you said, you're aplanner, you still plan, you
still prepare for what you'regonna do.
If you need to stop, you stopif you need.
So you're, you're taking thisright precautions.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You're not just out
there, you know, with a death
wish and wanting to no, and andthat's why I've also changed my
traveling in terms of I I now do.
Have you ever heard ofexpedition traveling?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's been
going on for years.
There's a couple of entitiesout there, like Quark and Aurora
, that specialize in this right,where you can go to any remote
part of the world.
They'll take you there.
But it's not like a guided tour, it's a real expedition where
we plan out where we're goingand what we expect to see from a
(19:00):
fauna, from a wildlife, andwe're in remote places where
there's nobody else.
So you have to really getgeared up and you have to have
you know you're tied off ifyou're on glaciers or if you're.
You know I kayak all the time,so I'm just kayaking all these
places.
There's a real purpose to it.
Today we're going to try andsee if we can find chinstrap
penguins or whatever it happensto be.
(19:21):
Why I love it is because everyday is a physical challenge, but
every night I go back to thesame bed that I was in the night
before.
I know exactly where my clothesare, and it's not like I have to
pack and unpack every singleday as we move from point to
point.
Nor am I carrying a backpackfull of equipment, clothes et
(19:43):
cetera, as I'm going from pointto point.
So during the daytime I can bereally active, pushing the
envelope, and then at night Iknow I'm okay, and then if I
don't feel I can do it, I don'tgo out, I just stay in the ship,
Right, and we still move fromone place to the other.
So progress is still going onand so I do a good job of
(20:04):
communicating with people,especially the guides, the
expedition leaders, to let themknow.
You know my condition, and somedays are going to be good and
some days may not be good.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I've noticed one
thing in our little bit of time
that we've chatted here.
I've noticed for you it's a lotabout kind of embracing the
moment, kind of the presentmoment In light of your cancer
diagnosis.
I mean, how do you stillembrace that present moment
while confronting the realitiesof having this cancer?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
In reality, that's
all I have.
I only have the moment.
It's terminal, so I don't.
Tomorrow's not guaranteed.
I know this all sounds socliche-ish, doesn't it?
But for me it's my life.
I can't.
I have no idea what's happeningnext week, right?
I have no idea in two months ora year from now, and so I need
(20:53):
to embrace as much as I can.
I have a lot to do, I have a lotof things I want to do and I
have things I want to see, andso being in the moment is so
important, and that also helpsme when I am having those points
of fatigue, when I am havingthose down points, like I gave
the example of hiking inPatagonia, where I just couldn't
(21:14):
hike anymore.
I had to stop.
Well, being in the momentallows you to do that without
regret.
Right, I can sit here and notbe ashamed at you.
Guys are all hiking away andI'm sitting here having to suck
it up.
Yeah, well, while you were offdoing this thing, I sat here and
I saw an eagle come and do adive, bomb down and pull up some
fish out of the lake.
(21:34):
Right, while I was here, I sawa puma that we don't normally
see because we'd make up toomuch noise in the back over here
.
And so in my resting I'm stillexperiencing a lot, because my
focus both from a hearing, sight, smell is attuned to being in
the moment.
And so, yeah, it's been great.
(21:55):
I've always a guy who was tryingto before just get through the
moment, because it was about thejourney, not the journey, it
was about the destination.
I need to reach, the summit,and we have only two more hours
left.
So no diddly-dallying, right,we got to get going.
Now that's not the issueanymore.
It's about miles, it's notabout summits, it's about
experiences.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's the thing I
like to say on my show.
It's not about the destination,it's about the journey, and I
think the journey is such a hugepart of it.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It is the part of it.
I mean, why do you do it?
I mean, yeah, you're going tostand on the summit, but we all
know that that standing on thesummit is maybe anywhere from
five minutes, depending on thecold, to maybe a few hours, but
it's taking you months to getthere in terms of preparation,
the actual hike, whatever, andif it's real challenging, it's
(22:43):
going to take you months and ifyou aren't focused on the
journey, you're missing a lot.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, yeah, you said
you're a planner, so planning,
that's one of my favorite things.
I love the planning of itbecause it does something else
for me as well.
It brings up anticipation.
What about anticipation?
What's the anticipation likefor you?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's interesting.
You said that because, for me,in the planning part, I get to
visualize what it is that I wantto go off and try to do.
Right, I do my homework, createperspectives, and then, you're
right, it's like, okay, I'mchomping at the bit, you know,
when I get in the plane, it'slike, yeah, yeah, can we just
(23:23):
get there?
And so the anticipation buildupis important.
Now, what's interesting, though, is that sometimes,
anticipation and highexpectations, if they're not met
, makes the experience that muchless.
Expectations if they're not metmakes the experience that much
less, and so I I don't correlatethe anticipation with an
expectation level, because I'vehad too many times where it was
(23:44):
a different experience than whatI expected, and that shouldn't
be detracting from thatexperience.
And so, if you've got this thingin your head, well, wait a
minute, I was supposed to bedoing x, y and z.
That's not happening.
This sucks.
Excuse my language.
Y and Z, that's not happening.
This sucks, excuse my language,right?
It's like well, no, it's allpart of the trip, right?
That's why I said, inadventures, when things start
going haywire and you've got tobe thinking differently, well,
(24:07):
if you've got a problem, you'vegot to do something differently.
That's part of the journey,right, and your anticipation up
to that point just got youprepared so that you can then
really embrace the next part ofthat journey.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Great way to say it.
I like that and I like the fact.
Yeah, the anticipation of itshouldn't really be what you
really experienced.
That's a great way to look atit.
You're opening my eyes to somethings here.
This is why I love doing this,because I learn so much from my
guests, which is amazing.
All right, you've explored somepretty wild places.
You talked about expeditiontraveling.
You've mentioned Antarctica afew times, remote places You've
(24:43):
gone to a lot of remote places.
What draws you to these kind ofwild, rugged environments?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I've got two answers
for you.
I'll give you the practicalanswer in terms of why I even
embraced it in the first.
So back in 96, remember, when Italked about having this
epiphany about I need to travel.
Well, part of that epiphany wasI realized that in order for me
to really recharge my batteries, I had to go away for two weeks
(25:09):
and not be bothered with work.
All right, and even in 90, youknow, even in 96, we didn't have
cell phones yet.
But you know, I always went toplaces where there was only a
phone call away or an email away.
And I'm not making this up I'vehad times when, because on a
proposal for some work, the teamhas sent a helicopter to pick
(25:30):
me up to bring me into theproposal and presentation and
such right, and I said, yeah, Igot to find a place where not
only can they not reach me interms of a telephone or an email
, but they can't reach me with afrigging helicopter or any
other thing.
right, it's going to be a realpain in the ass for them to come
.
So I started thinking aboutremote places.
(25:51):
And then those remote placesgot deeper and deeper.
Remote because as thetechnology changed and cell
phones and satellite phones,it's like where can I actually
go now?
And that's what caused me to gofurther and further.
You know, and I've been to theYukon and I've kayaked rivers up
there, I've been to Alaska,both wintertime and summertime,
(26:11):
you know, helicopter skiing,rafting down, helicopter skiing,
rafting down.
You know, I don't know how tosay this, but when you're the
only person out there, there's adifferent feel to it.
Right when you are, your onlysurvival and if something goes
wrong, you can't, you know,can't just scream out.
(26:32):
Hey, you know, another camperis a little about to think come
on, I got a little problem.
It's like you're SOL.
You know, and I do a lot of mytraveling solo, at least I used
to up until 2024.
And so for me it was thechallenge of how do you recover
when you have a problem.
Yeah, it's no different thanhow I described it earlier,
about an adventure versus travel, but I guess that's my psyche.
(26:55):
I love challenges, I likeMacGgyvering things, I like, you
know, trying to, as they say,get water from a stone maybe
give give me an example of aplace that you've been, that's
really was like, maybetransformative for you.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Is there a certain
story you could tell me, or an
experience?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
well, you talked
earlier about being in the
moment, right, and I said Iwasn't always that way.
About four or five years ago Iwas traveling in, it was winter
time and I was in, uh, northcascade mountains, I was in a
north cascade national park andit was it began to snow or no, I
don't know what's it's knowingyet I was doing off-roading,
(27:31):
right, and I wanted to get aposition, because it's supposed
to be a beautiful vista in thisone particular area at least the
locals had told me about it andso I was trying to get
positioned up there.
And I did get positioned upthere for a beautiful sunset,
right.
When I got up there, the sunsetwas beautiful, and then I went
to bed.
But the next morning, when Iwoke up, there were six inches
(27:52):
of snow all around me and Icouldn't go back down the road
because it was too steep and Ihad a trailer.
I was, I was pulling there'sactually my jeep I had my camper
on the, on the truck and then Itowed my jeep, so I can go off
exploring and I couldn't, uh, Icouldn't go down.
So I just sat there for threedays and you know, there's only
so much you can do right.
(28:13):
And I finally said I'm gonna goout, even though it's snowing
and stuff like that.
I'm not going to go too faraway from the truck because I
didn't want to get hurt, youknow whatever.
And I sat down underneath apine tree right, you know the
tree boughs, right, if you'resmart, you can go underneath one
.
That's got lots of pinebranches and the snow is not as
deep down there.
So I found myself a spot whereI can sit watch it snow because
(28:36):
it wasn't snowing that badanymore and I sat there for a
few hours and while I wassitting there I saw a snow hare,
right as it comes, bouncingaround.
I saw a coyote that was tryingto.
It was mousing, right so youknow you'd be going along.
All of a sudden you jump in theair and go boom straight down
into the snow and they come upwith a freaking little bowl or a
(28:58):
mouth.
I had no idea, but it hadsomething in its mouth and I
just sat there and I said, wow,all this stuff's going on.
And I never really experiencedthat, because I'm always making
noise.
When you're skiing outside oryou're backcountry, you're
making noise and stuff like thatjust naturally through the
skiing and I was like, wow, thisis pretty cool.
(29:18):
So that was for me.
It was transformative in termsof coming to realize that
slowing down wasn't a bad thing,it was a great thing, right,
and so that was for me.
When I realized I needed to bespending more time in the moment
but that was also before I gotmy stage four cancer diagnosis I
said yeah, yeah, well, but thatwas also before I got my stage
(29:39):
four cancer diagnosis.
Yeah, yeah, well, this is wherea place you're going to be
spending a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
There's a little
prequel.
It kind of forced your hand alittle bit with the whole cancer
diagnosis, but I liked the factthat it was something that you
were kind of forced to dobecause you couldn't really go
anywhere.
So you were cut, you were stuck, but it allowed you to realize
hey, this is good, this is goodto just take these moments.
Watch the little hare, Watchthe coyote.
I mean amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And that goes back to
my point, Jake, in terms of
most people, when they have aproblem, that's when they start
packing to leave right, Saying,okay, this is a sign I shouldn't
be out here, I should be, youknow, all right.
Well, you know, and they'll befrustrated here I should be, you
know it's all right.
Well, you know, and they'll befrustrated.
Spend a few more minutes beforeyou draw that conclusion about
(30:25):
packing things up to say, well,how bad is it really?
I mean, did you cut your arm?
I mean, how bad is it and canyou recover from it?
And then, if you start thinkingabout recovering, then you get
into a whole different mindset.
Not that I go searchingproblems, but I don't need too
much of a problem for it to turninto an experience.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
One thing I love
about you, tom, what you do is
you're a great storyteller andyou've put a lot of this into
actual books.
You've authored quite a fewbooks, including one called
Living While Dying I think isthe name of one of them, which
is about this experience withthe cancer and all that.
Yep, you also.
You also have one, and I wantto ask about this as far as you
(31:04):
don't deal with ruggedenvironments, yeah, what's with
you in the cold, what's with youin like winter, and why do you
love it so much?
It's just, you know, I enjoy agood winter for a little bit,
but not, you know, for know forsure.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, it's a mindset
thing, and for me, I love the
winner because there's no oneelse out there, right?
I remember a number of yearsago it was February I'm standing
at the base of Mount Rushmoreright Now.
Normally there's hundreds ofpeople around here, right?
You can't find a spot to get apicture, or whatever.
(31:37):
There was nobody there, it wasme and the boys, and it was
snowing, okay, and so you know,I don't know who has the big
nose, I don't know if it'sJefferson or not, but someone's
nose is collecting snow on it,right, and I'm going whoa,
that's beautiful, right?
Or if you've ever been to BryceCanyon, bryce National Park.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I've been to Bryce,
yes.
Have you been there?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes, have you been
there in the wintertime?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I have not no.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Ah, all those hoodoos
right covered with snow.
Talk about a change incomplexion.
It's stunning.
Or if you've ever seen OldFaithful in Yellowstone, right
in the summertime In thewintertime, wholly different in
the sense of, hey, hardlyanybody there, but all the steam
coming up right, it's justgorgeous.
(32:25):
And you look around and you seethe bison that are there and
they're all covered in ice andsnow and they're enjoying what
they're doing because they'vegot some areas where it's warmer
, so the grass is popping up andthey can eat it, right, but
it's like, yeah, this is the wayit's supposed to be, and
there's no fighting forcampsites, there's no, there's
(32:46):
no waiting in line if you'reinto that thing, right.
So for me, it's a time whenthere's less, less people out
there.
The second thing is and this issomething my, my daughter, I
mean we had a rule in our housecotton kills, right?
Don't wear cotton in thewintertime, right, because you
get sweat and you've got nextyear.
You're forever warming up theshirt and you're losing all your
(33:08):
heat.
Anyhow.
My daughter finally concludedthat there's no such thing as
bad weather.
It's poor choice of clothes,and she's right.
Right, I mean, let's face it,you can always put another layer
on, but when you're naked andit's still hot out, what are you
going to do?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
You can't go much
less than that.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, so I'm not.
I don't like the heat, and so,for me, the cold.
And you're right.
I wrote a book about embracingthe cold because I know that
people don't like the cold.
And you're right, I wrote abook about embracing the cold
because I know that people don'tlike the cold and I was trying
to give them tips on how toenjoy it more, because Mother
Nature in the wintertime is asstunning as she is in the
summertime.
Right, you just got to be outthere to experience it.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I love that.
That's a great way to look atit.
Let's stay on the same topic,then, about your storytelling,
your books that you've written.
Why write books?
What is it that you find aboutwriting that you love so much?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
When I retired at 55,
I mentioned that I wanted to do
things that focused on my rightbrain not my left right,
because I had been spending myentire career on my left brain
and so I wanted to be creative.
That's why I did the wordworking, but I hadn't started
writing yet.
That was going to come, but Iwas focused on being creative.
In 2015, when I found out thatI had cancer, I went to find out
(34:22):
.
All right.
Well, what does it mean?
And there are tons of books outthere about you know medically
what you're supposed to do, theprognosis, what kind of
treatments, side of side, right?
I said, yeah, okay, well, mydoctor's going to tell me all
that stuff.
So, okay, that's good, but Iwant to know what it felt like.
I mean, what am I in store for?
I've sprained ankles, I'vebroken legs.
(34:43):
I know you know duration oftime to heal and stuff like that
, right, what you got to do.
I had no clue about cancer, andso I tried looking for books
that gave from a man'sperspective on what it's like to
deal with it, because,unfortunately, this particular
cancer does more than justimpact your health.
(35:05):
I mean it impacts your libido.
I mean things that are veryimportant to guys now come under
question.
It's like, okay, your manlinesshas gone out the door and I
wanted to know and understand ifthat was true and if it was
recoverable.
And there weren't any books onthat and I said, well, maybe
(35:27):
someone should write a bookabout that.
And I did in 24.
That's when I released my firstbook.
I wrote it in 23 because of thatfact, right, and then as I
started writing, I realized Ireally enjoy this.
You know there's something tobe said about sitting.
You know you're not for work interms of sitting on your
(35:48):
computer, because we all do that, but to be able to get some
things out of here onto a pieceof paper that others may find
helpful.
You know that's what led me todoing the website, where I got
tons of blogs.
I have a blog that I do and Ifound it to be therapeutic for
myself, and so it's helped menavigate this journey, because I
(36:10):
can articulate some of thechallenges I'm feeling or
experiencing right and just getit out.
And sometimes, when you have baddays, instead of walking around
like you know, the world sucksI will spend the time writing
about it.
Get it out of my system and Ican go back to being positive,
right, because I acknowledged it, I named it and I got it out of
my system.
(36:30):
That's pretty good, so it'stherapy for me as well.
And then the last part islegacy.
You know, everyone wants toleave something behind.
I don't want to be rememberedas the guy that had cancer, you
know, and just stuck in the youknow bed or the couch or
something like that and justwithered away.
Yeah, he had cancer, but he'sstill doing shit.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Still doing it, still
making it happen.
So you started writing just2023?
Was that when you first startedwriting?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
No, no, no.
I started writing a lot earlier, for different reasons, though.
Unfortunately, I suffer fromclinical depression.
My therapist said you know, youought to think about doing some
journaling.
I said, yeah, right, that'sexactly what I'm going to do.
But he said, no, no, no, youreally should.
So I started.
I said, okay, you know, likeany other guy, my first day of
(37:20):
journal today was a good dayperiod, and the next day was oh
yeah, it was even betterExclamation point.
It was like, okay, I don't knowwhat this is doing, but this is
not like I don't think what heintended.
But as I started, you know, Ihave, I've got discipline.
So when I put my mind to dosomething, I usually follow
through.
And so I said listen, for thenext three months I'm just going
(37:40):
to every day write somethingdown, and if I get something out
of it after three months, great.
If I don't, I'll just stop it.
Right, what's 15 minutes a day?
Well, after three months, myjournals went from one line to
multiple pages, right.
And that's when I startedrealizing wait a minute, I can
get rid of a lot of thisnegativity in my system by just
(38:02):
articulating it, naming it right, pointing to it and then
putting into a book and thenputting the book on a shelf.
That's no longer in my system,and so when I decided to write
the book, I said holy Toledo,I've got you know.
So 23 is when I started to writethe book.
I started doing these thingsback in 2012.
So I had 13 years, 12 years,over 10 years at least, of
(38:25):
already writing.
It was more of, as you'venoticed, the first book.
It's really a journal that I'vejust extracted from.
So I said, all right, this iseasy.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And so it was the
first book Living While Dying.
Is that the first book?
What's the first book?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell us.
Okay.
So that's that one.
What are the other books?
If you don't mind, just kind ofa quick, you know the name of
them and kind of what they'reabout.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
The Living While
Dying was pretty much the period
between getting diagnosed in2015 to getting actually
determined to be stage four.
Right, and all about theemotional, all the bullshit
associated with that.
In 22,.
I decided to do a seven-monthjourney, going across the
provinces of Canada up toFairbanks, alaska, and then all
(39:12):
the way up to Prudhoe Bay in thewintertime.
And when I came back from thatI decided, you know, I want to
write a book about how traveland this journey I am on can
meld together.
And because I was positioningmyself, because I was solo
traveling, backcountry,off-roading, etc.
(39:36):
There were instances where, youknow, I had mechanical failures,
etc.
Then I had to rely on myself,right, just like you know, I had
mechanical failures, etc.
Then I had to rely on myself,right, just like you know, when
I have this cancer, I've got torely on myself.
Because in order for me to feelbetter uh, a lot of time is
going to be mentally right I'vegot to do something to find the
joy.
I've got to do something tochange my attitude from a
negative to a positive.
(39:56):
And so if I, if I, if I canmeet the challenges of the
wintertime and still findpleasure and joy doing that,
then that's going to hold me ingood stead as I continue down
this journey of dealing with thecancer, and so that's the
Chasing.
My Northern Lights is thesecond book, which is really a
travel narrative of going, as Ijust said, across Canada and all
(40:19):
the way up to Alaska.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Chasing my Northern
Lights.
That's what that one's called.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yep.
And then I wrote calledEmbracing the Cold, where I got
a lot of questions Well, why doyou like the cold so much?
I said, well, here's thepointers, right.
And then I was writing poetry Istill do and someone you know,
my editor, said well, why don'tyou take some of that and just
put it into a book?
I said, all right, no one'sgoing to read it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, get it outthere, you'd be surprised.
(40:46):
Well, no one's read it.
I think I've sold one copy, andthat was to me and then the
last book.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
What's the book of
poetry?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
What the book of
poetry, what's it called?
Strength of Surrender.
The Strength of Surrender, okay, yeah, it's all about
acceptance in terms of thechallenge of accepting, everyone
thinks it's prettystraightforward, right, and it's
not.
You know, when you accept thefact that when you accept
terminal cancer, that meansyou're accepting mortality, and
that's a big, that's a bigacceptance, right?
Things that I learned, uh, thatwere most challenging for me
and that's what the the, thelast book, the edge of now is
about.
It's about the, the challengesI faced in accepting all the
(41:30):
things that go with havingterminal, a terminal illness,
and it's also the time I wasdown in south america, so it was
a travel, but more spiritual interms of how do you deal with
accepting right.
And so you know, some thingsthat were very difficult for me
was accepting help, right, I'm aguy, I'm a provider, you know a
(41:51):
protector, I take those thingsseriously, you know protecting
my girls and asking for help isnot part of the piece, it's not
the piece.
You know, asking for help isnot like that, and if you do,
you're just looking like you'reweak, and what guy wants to show
weakness, right?
What I learned is that askingfor help is not a weakness, it's
a strength.
I also learned that by askingfor help I've created deeper and
(42:18):
stronger connections withpeople because you know it's one
thing to stand up and I'm a bigguy, I'm six foot three, you
know 250.
I'm a big guy, right, noemotion.
And they're like, yeah, you're,you know.
But when you start opening upand they're realizing wait a
minute, there is feeling inthere.
You do have some emotions.
You aren't.
You know, you could be a niceguy.
(42:42):
Changes the and other guys whenthey see that, oh okay, if you
can say this, then I'm going totell you about some of my stuff.
And all of a sudden you'resharing right, you're sharing.
So for 20 years I did thesetrips with this guy, loved them
dearly, but our conversations onthese trips would last for two
or three weeks.
We're all about the strategyand tactics of what we were
(43:03):
doing, right, and some of thestuff we're doing is pretty
serious in terms of, you know,going across glaciers and having
to worry about crevasses andhaving to tie up and blah, blah,
blah.
We never talked about ourselvesor the challenges in our life.
And when I got the cancer partand had to stop doing the trips
with him, our relationshipstopped because we had nothing
(43:24):
to talk about, right.
20 years, you would think thatwe'd know a little bit more
about each other and like, nope,that's guys, unless you have a
purpose.
You know ball games, sports,whatever it happens to be.
Everything's episodic we cantalk about, but when it becomes
emotional, we're going to like,yeah, we're going to avoid that
(43:44):
shit, right?
So so asking for help was verydifficult for me, and just
another part was uncertainty.
My professional career I was a,a risk manager, right, not in
terms of insurance and stufflike that.
I operational risk, right.
So companies are trying tomitigate the amount of
operational risk they have.
They want to put controls in,and that's where I come into
(44:06):
play.
So my whole career was aroundmitigating risk, eliminating
uncertainty.
And now I have to embraceuncertainty because I have no
idea when I'm going to die.
I have no idea what I'm goingto look like, and I have to
embrace that if I want to wakeup the next morning and be
active and be ready to.
While I was traveling, right,and while I was experiencing
(44:26):
life that way, I was also tryingto experience it in a more
spiritual way in terms ofembracing the moment, everything
(44:48):
we talked about the stillnessright.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
I want to kind of go
back to your poetry just for a
minute because, like I said, yousold one copy to yourself
Congratulations.
Do you have any poems that youwrote that come to mind, like
maybe something quick that maybeyou could share with us?
I wouldn't mind hearing a poemfrom you if you've got something
.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Here's one.
This one is about time.
I'm only going to go through acouple of stanzas, right?
Sure, it's perfect.
So the measure of time?
In the waning hours of aborrowed dawn time whispers
softly a fleeting song, onceboundless and wide, now a
(45:27):
precious thread spun from themoments that lie ahead, where,
once it stretched as far as youcould see, now counts each
breath with stark urgency.
A river that once roared wildand free flows gently toward the
end's decree.
So it's about experiencing lifein a different way.
(45:50):
You know where I used to have.
I didn't even think about whatthe end looked like, right, it
was just like.
All I knew was I got a lot todo.
Boundless, right, a river.
It just keeps on going forever.
I'm going to ride this thing aswild as it gets, and then,
after a while, you've got torealize no, you may only be able
to go down a mile of this river, and it's not going to be the
(46:11):
white water you hoped, it'sgoing to be flat water.
Well, you've still got to enjoyit.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that andI really, when you were sharing
that, I was like wow, this isjust so, it's you.
You know it's like kind of whatyou've gone through and kind of
what you've talked about thiswhole podcast episode.
So I think I think that wasbeautiful, I think that's
awesome.
I might be, I might be,purchaser number two of the year
book of poetry.
Good, that's great.
(46:38):
I appreciate you sharing that.
So for you, tom, knowing thatyou know you've been diagnosed
with stage four cancer you'renot sure even, but you are a
planner, which I love, and Iblood work done right to find
out how things are going.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And I found out that
I'm doing great, that whatever
the indicators are I don't needto go into the technical stuff
are better than what they shouldbe right, which means I have at
least another year right.
You know, even under worst casescenarios I have another year.
So yesterday I started planningmy next adventure.
I'm excited.
I didn't know what was going tohappen in 26.
I thought 26 was going to beliterally a dead year Bad pun.
(47:31):
And now I know it's not.
There's one continent I haven'tbeen to, and that is Africa.
So 26 will see me doing sometravels there, whether it's a
safari or whether it's headingup to Morocco, I don't know yet.
Either that or there'ssomething I've always it's a
bucket list item for me iscircumnavigate on the interior
(47:53):
Australia.
I'd love to do that.
I just don't know if I have thestrength to be able to pull off
some of the feats in terms ofin case there are mechanical
issues.
That's one of the downsides.
I don't have the same strengthI used to and therefore I can be
mindful of that.
But aside from that, in thistrip we're taking in next month,
(48:14):
a lot of it's going to bekayaking.
So I'll be kayaking off thecoast of Iceland, greenland and
all up through Baffin area andthe southwest passage.
So I'm looking forward to thatand I'm hoping that I get close
enough but yet far enough awayfrom a polar bear so I can add
that to my wildlife that I'veseen.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Absolutely, and first
of all, congrats that your
blood work's looking better.
Yeah, and first of all,congrats that your blood work's
looking better, yeah, do youthink in your mind I mean, I'm
thinking this in my mind thatthere's any correlation to the
fact that you're out beingadventurous, that it's helped in
any way?
Speaker 2 (48:47):
And I'm not speaking
medically or anything but Well,
believe it or not, there is somestudies out there that say
travel is good if you have it,but for mental reasons, it
doesn't change the condition,right?
You know, for instance, thefact that if you can tick off
some bucket list items forpeople, right, that's powerful,
because that's one thing they'llless they'll regret not doing
(49:12):
because they're focused on that.
For me, just being outside ofmy home with different types of
people, that means a lot to me.
Right?
Being positive, you know, apositive mindset has incredible
benefits to health.
So, you know, for me, I'm goingto continue down this path of
positivity.
(49:32):
I'm going to continue down thispath of embracing life and all
the challenges it has in frontof me, waking up each day with
gratitude for having the day.
For me, and I think, for mostpeople, you are at your best
when you're living with purposeand living with intention.
Right, until yesterday, I wasworried what my purpose was
(49:54):
going to be.
Right, in terms of all, right,am I on the downward slope?
Right?
And my purpose is I'm not goingto be able to do podcasts as
much anymore, I'm not going tobe able to write, you know, and
therefore that's coming off mything.
And what am I going to replaceit with?
To keep me energized?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Now I know my purpose
is the same right, and that's
good.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
And now I can deal
with the intentions of being
able to move forward.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
This has been amazing
for me.
I really appreciate your timetoday.
This has been fascinating.
Learn about who you are.
I love the fact that you'rejust so much about embracing
winter and embracing the coldand being alone and, you know,
just embracing the moment, Ithink it's.
It's awesome for someonelistening who might be a little
fearful, maybe a littleuncertain about chasing their
(50:35):
own adventures or, you know,embracing life.
What would you say to them?
What would be a little piece ofadvice you'd give to them?
Speaker 2 (50:41):
It doesn't need to be
grand, all right, it doesn't
need to be grand.
You don't need to go toAntarctica.
You don't need to go off to thepolar regions, right, I mean, I
live on the Cape, right, I havethe benefit of being able to
see sunsets and sunrises on thewater, depending on what side of
the Cape I am.
And so if you lived here, right, and wherever you live, there's
(51:05):
probably great places to seesunrises or sunsets.
Go off and do that.
Go for a walk in some naturepark and do it with purpose.
There's a term I never reallyappreciated, but now it makes a
lot of sense to me.
There's three different speedsof walking.
Right, you've got the truckersout there, who's like all right,
they're for purpose.
(51:25):
And you have other people outthere like dog walkers right,
well, they got to go as fast astheir dog's going, right.
And then there's bird walkers.
I'm a bird walker, right, whereI don't walk very fast, not
because I'm birding, because I'mnot, but a birdwalker goes very
slow because they're trying tosee what's in the trees, forcing
(51:47):
them to slow down.
So my advice to people go outin the wilderness, go out to
your local park and be abirdwalker, go slow, look around
you, enjoy the moment.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Be a birdwalker, Tom.
Thank you so much for coming onJourney with Jake.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Hey, my pleasure,
jake, and thank you so much for
having me.
It's been a real pleasurableexperience, thanks.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
A huge thank you to
Tom Barrett for sharing his
incredible story, his strengthand his message of living fully,
no matter the circumstances.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Tom, be sure to visit
livinglifewhiledyingcom orconnect with him on Instagram at
Tom.
Underscore Barrett and Tom isspelled T-H-O-M Barrett,
(52:31):
b-a-r-r-e-t-t.
And to you, my amazinglisteners, thank you for being
here.
Your support means everything.
If Tom's story touched you, I'dlove to hear about your own
adventures or moments that haveshaped you.
Send me an email at jake, atjourneywithjakenet, or shoot me
a message on Instagram atjourneywithjakepodcast.
Don't forget to share Journeywith Jake with a friend.
(52:53):
It's the best way to spreadthese powerful stories.
And be sure to join me nextweek for another unforgettable
episode with Ran Timmerman.
Ran and his brother hiked theAppalachian Trail, both in their
70s, discovering healing,connection and spiritual growth
every step of the way.
You won't want to miss it Untilnext time.
It's not always about thedestination, as it is about the
(53:15):
journey.
Take care, everybody.