Humor, Upheaval, And Heart On The Pan American Highway with Matt Savino

#188 - What happens when a comedian with a camera trades stage lights for sunrise on a dirt road and points his vehicle toward Panama? I sat down with author and traveler Matt Savino to unpack a seven-month run along the Pan American Highway that never reached South America yet somehow delivered everything he was chasing: humor in the chaos, humanity at the barricades, and a clear-eyed love for places most maps flatten.

Matt takes us from Baja’s empty beaches and Dr. Seuss–worthy boojum forests to the food capitals of Puebla and Oaxaca, where mole lessons and tlayudas become their own itinerary. He opens the door on a Nicaraguan uprising, describing the day he edged through student roadblocks by listening first and moving only when trust appeared. Then the road shifts again: Costa Rica’s bold choice to scrap its army and invest in parks and schools, and a volunteer’s-eye view inside the Panama Canal’s towering locks, where global trade rises and falls like a stage cue.

We also dig into Land Without a Continent, Matt’s sharp, funny travel memoir that blends road stories with deep dives into Mesoamerican history and modern politics. With a researcher’s rigor and a comic’s timing, he shows how travel rewires assumptions: Central America’s identity, the real cost of a “normal life,” and why empathy is the best gear you can pack. If you’ve ever wondered whether to overland, backpack, or simply follow your curiosity, this story maps the trade-offs and the rewards.

Subscribe, share with a friend who loves smart travel stories, and leave a review to help more explorers find the show. Then tell us: what part of this route would you tackle first, and why?

To learn more about give him a follow on Instagram @ushuaia_or_bust and to get a copy of his book "Land Without a Continent" visit www.mattsavino.com.

 Want to be a guest on Journey with Jake? Send me a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/journeywithjake 

Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind.  Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.

Visit geneticinsights.co and use the code "DISCOVER25" to enjoy a sweet 25% off your first purchase.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
What happens when a comedian with a camera sets off

(00:02):
on the world's longest road?
In this episode, Matt Sevino,author of Land Without a
Continent, shares hissoul-stirring journey along the
Pan American Highway, weavingtogether humor, hardship, and
humanity.
From uprisings to quiet sunsets,this is a story about finding
connection in the chaos.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how through our

(00:25):
adventures we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they

(00:46):
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of us ona journey through the
experiences of my guests withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day
challenges.
After all, it's all about thedestination.

(01:18):
Before we dive into myconversation with Matt Savino,
just a quick reminder to followthe show wherever you listen to
podcasts, you never miss anadventure.
You can also find me onInstagram at Journey with Jake
Podcast for behind-the-scenesclips, personal stories, and
clips of current and upcomingguests.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I think you'll also love episode
118 with Nikolai Dotter, wherewe explore his epic solo journey

(01:42):
along the Pan American Highway,another incredible story of
courage, creativity, andself-discovery.
All right, let's get started.
Here's my conversation with MattSavino.
Well, this is exciting for me.
I've got Matt Savino on the showwith me today.
Matt, welcome to Journey withJake.
Hey, you're all over the place.
You've done all kinds of things.
We're really going to talk abouta trip that you did, I think
back in 2017 on the Pan AmericanHighway.

(02:05):
We're going to talk about thatprobably more than anything.
But you've done all kinds ofthings.
I think I saw stand-up comedy inthere.
I think you've been aphotographer.
I think you've done all kinds.
Before we dive into all that andwho you are, how about a little
background?
Where are you from?
Where you grew up, that sort ofthing.

SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
So I grew up in Kansas City.
This is my little Kansas CityChiefs mug right here.
I drink water out all day allday.
Yeah, grew up in Kansas City,moved to San Francisco about in
1996.
Actually, yeah, I lived in theVirgin Islands for a little

(02:41):
while after college, just kindof screwing around, and then
came back to Kansas City andthen eventually moved to San
Francisco.
And at the time I was doingstand-up comedy, and the
original plan was to move toVegas and do it.
But that makes no sense.
Vegas is where you go at the endof your career, not the
beginning of your career.
And uh just bumped into a guy Iknew in San Francisco doing
comedy at this random bar andwas like, okay, maybe I should

(03:04):
just move here instead and livethere for five years.
About that time, the comedy wasokay.
Like I kind of enjoyed it, but Ididn't really like the process
all that much.
I hated, you know, just the leadup to it.
And and watching a bunch ofamateur comedians bomb a lot of
the time is like I would ratherbe on stage bombing myself than
having to watch somebody else,you know.

(03:25):
And the the only solution isjust to get drunk, but that's
not really a good life plan ifthat's what you're trying to do
is your avocation, you know.
And it was like the dot-comdays, the late 90s.
And I have a I have a degree inphysics and a minor in creative
writing.
So there you go, there's somedabbling.
And the only, but I was aterrible student.
There was no question that I wasgonna not go on and and do

(03:48):
anything with physics, but I didlike my programming, computer
programming classes andelectronics class, where you
actually get to play with chipsand figure out how they work,
and by far more than anythingelse.
So I was like, you know, kind ofage 29 hit.
I was like, I need to get somekind of real career going.
And I took just a fewprogramming classes at San
Francisco City College,$13 acredit hour.

(04:10):
Yeah, that my whole career isbased on the$78 I spent on those
two classes.
Yeah, so then did that for awhile and then wound up getting
a job offer in LA and moved downhere in 2000, I think, and I've
been here ever since.
So got really got into poker fora little while and then kind of

(04:31):
took off a total of three yearsin two different stretches
trying to play online, and Iwasn't great at it.
I made it, I got by, which waskind of cool to be saying I'm
making a living at poker, but itI wasn't breaking the bank by
any means.
It there's a lot of soft skillsyou need for poker, like the
ability to endure bad beats andnot let it get under your skin,

(04:52):
not go on tilt, is what theycall it.
And I was terrible at that.
Like I got notes from theneighbors because I was
screaming at my computer andpounding on my desk.
So that's a pretty good signthat that's not meant to be the
career.
But I have always liked writing,and it's something in the in the
back of my mind I always wantedto do.
I just didn't really haveanything to write about.
And so, you know, I I took thistrip in the end of 2017 and came

(05:17):
back and kind of trying to writeit, but I don't know if it would
have happened and then COVIDhit, and I have all this extra
free time and I'm not travelinganywhere for a while anyway, and
and that ended up kind of beingthe impetus.
It took me four and a half yearsto write the book of research
and writing.
I think I could do it a littlefaster now because I I had no
idea.
Got some practice.

(05:37):
Yeah, but it still is a prettyserious effort.

SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
For sure.
And we're gonna we're gonna diveinto that, but I I'm just
looking at all the things you'vedone: stand-up comedy, poker,
you mean your physics andcreative writing.
That's kind of interesting.
I mean, it just seems like adifferent kind of combo to
study.

SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Yeah, and uh it's something that I kind of forgot
about until I started writingthe book.
And I wait, I do have a minor increative writing.
That's cool.
Yeah, I I think I've always beeninterested in both sides and in
creativity, but also very muchproblem solving.
A lot of that comes up incomputer programming because it
does require a lot ofcreativity.
You know, people might not thinkthat, but thinking outside the

(06:19):
box, solving these problems, andthen also depending on how
specialized the place you'reworking is, you might end up
doing a lot of the userinterface, the user experience
as a programmer.
And that usually goes prettybadly because programmers aren't
very good at it generally,they're not good at putting
themselves in someone else'sshoes.
But I think it helped waitingtable.

(06:41):
When I was doing comedy in my20s, I waited tables off and on
for years and getting thatmindset of you know the customer
is always right and justthinking, figuring out what they
want, you know, before they evenknow they want it.
And so so I like that side ofprogramming.
Like, like I actually like doingthe user experience and the the
UI UX type stuff.
So I guess it kind of goes alongwith that.

(07:02):
And I know programming is areally good job for me because I
get into flow state and whereeight hours just goes by like
that.
I was hoping that's how writingwould go, and writing never went
like that.
Writing is a slog, and it mademe feel good talking to other
writers too.
Similar experiences with otherwriters?

(07:23):
Yeah, there aren't too many ofthem that that say, yeah, I just
sit down and it just flows.
It's always kind of a grind, youknow.

SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
Again, very interesting background that you
have, all the the things thatyou've done.
Yeah, it sounds interesting onpaper.

SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
I don't know if it's in it.
You can make it soundinteresting if you want.

SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
Before we dive into all you know, your your Pan
American Highway adventure thatyou had, what was your family
life like growing up?
Are you an only child?
Do you have any siblings?
What was that kind of thesituation like?

SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Only child, child of divorce.
My parents got divorced when Iwas five.
So I think it's I'm do you everlisten to the Rewatchables
podcast, the Bill Simmons, themove, it's a movie podcast.
He's he basically he's a sportsguy, but they made this movie
podcast, and he's almost my ageand also child of divorce, grew
up with like cable TV, you know,in the late 70s, 80s.

(08:13):
And yeah, that all that thatshow just hits me right in the
feels because that reminds me ofwhat my childhood was like.
But I I think so.
My dad's a poet, basically, hada master's degree in literature
and very you know intellectualguy.
My my stepdad that kind ofraised me through a lot of my
formative years was this kind ofhard-ass guy from Texas and

(08:34):
hunter hunt into hunting andfishing, and and I I like that I
had that experience of gettinggetting two different worlds.
And I think my stepdaddefinitely gave me my love for
the outdoors, which is kind ofwhat this trip is all about.
It's not totally outdoors, butdefinitely getting out there.
So yeah, it was sporadic, but itwasn't any, you know, there's no

(08:56):
uh major I feel like I got bywithout any major trauma or
craziness, you know.
And my mom and dad would fightsometimes, but they were
fighting over who got to seemore of me, which is you know
better than the opposite, Iguess.
Fighting over who had to takecare of me.

SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Right.
Okay, very good.
So only child of a divorcedfamily, divorced parents.
What led you to this whole, youknow, Pan American highway?
What what what made you want todo this trip?

SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Well, for a while now, though oh yeah, there's the
photography thing too, and Ihaven't been um I don't want to
make it sound like I'm making aliving at it because there's a
million different landscapephotographers out there.
I would go on these um phototrips, and there's this guy
named Mark Adamus, who's aprofessional landscape
photographer, and it was a lotof fun.

(09:46):
It was more as much for theadventure as the photography,
because he likes if he thinksthere's gonna be some great
picture, he just is off.
And you're following him downthe like the first night of the
first trip with him, we wound upin a pretty dicey situation in
Glacier National Park, and wewere way down eight miles from
the trailhead, way down in thiskind of natural bowl, and and it

(10:06):
just opened up rain right atsunset.
We're trying to get like sunsetshots, and we had to kind of
make our way back, and it wasdicey, but I but I liked it.
And the next morning everybodywas all energized, you know, a
bunch of office drones that justhad our big wilderness adventure
and everybody was punked.
So I ended up going toPatagonia, a trip to Patagonia
with him a year earlier, I thinklike 2016 or 2017.

(10:30):
And the only car, so you have togo back and forth between Chile
and Argentina because that'sPatagonia is kind of on both
sides.
And the only cars that you couldrent that would let you do that
and go through the borders werethese horrible little, like if
you remember the Geo Metro.
I I used to drive a Geo Metro.
Yes.
The tires were like the fakespares that on other cars, you

(10:53):
know, that except just four ofthem.
And we popped two tires just inlike a few days, and I was sure
I was gonna die.
And we saw another one of thosethat did roll, and then you kind
of see the same people hikingaround.
We saw the girl hiking withblack, two black eyes and a
bandaged nose, and it was likesomething out of a John Hughes
movie or something like, butstill out there hiking, you

(11:16):
know.
So, anyway, while we were onthat trip, he's arranging
another trip, it's he's callingit expedition, to go into the
fjords in southern Chile andthese places where like amateur
landscape photographers havepretty much never been, only
government scientists.
You can't just go in there, youhave to get permission and all
this stuff.
And I saw him arrange this withthe captain, and I got all
excited.
I'm like, oh, this is awesome.

(11:36):
The plan was to do that the nextyear, but it would still also
involve a lot of driving around.
I didn't want to die in one ofthose cars.
That was the whole impetus.
I'm like, can I drive?
So I just Google, can you driveto South America?
It turns out you can, but thereis a the daring gap between
Panama and Columbia, and you gotto ship your car around that.
And at first it sounds likethere's a nice ferry, and then

(11:56):
you realize the ferry went outof business in like '92 or
something.
But you you end up sharing acontainer with you find a
container buddy, and you splitthe costs and you put two cars
in one container, and it's it'sa big pain, but people do it.
That was the genesis.
That was where I said, allright, I'm I'm gonna try to do
this and either take a leave ofabsence from my job or

(12:18):
something.
And then the I worked for ATTwho had bought out DirecTV and
they offered a layoff to prettymuch all the former employees of
DirecTV, and it was rightcoincided right when I was
thinking about asking for aleave of absence anyway.
So I just said, all right, I'lltake the layoff and take the
severance and let the chips fallwhere they may.
That and that was the start ofit.

SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
That was the genesis.
What's amazing is the whole ideathat I hated these little cars
so much that you're like, let mejust drive there.

SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
I just started fantasizing, what if I could
have my own big Toyota FJCruiser, nice four-wheel drive,
big, comfy, wide wheelbase,isn't gonna roll on the highway,
you know.
That was it.
And it it ended up that I didn'tgive myself anywhere, like I
thought I was gonna get all theway to South America in like
four months from LA toPatagonia, which is way too fast

(13:09):
for a trip like that, unlessyou're really trying to do it
just as a speed run, and thenit's no fun.
I figured that out pretty quick,and then I was like, all right,
I'll park my car somewhere, I'llfly down to Patagonia and do
that.
But then I got planar fasciitispretty bad in my foot, which is
one of the reasons why I cameback from after Panama and
didn't do South America.
All the hiking we were gonna do,I was gonna be screwed.
So I ended up not going on thattrip.

(13:30):
So yeah, the whole reason fordoing it didn't happen.
But then I ended up in, youknow, spending seven months
going from LA to Panama andhaving a pretty great trip, a
lot of adventures.

SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
I think that's what's amazing is you know, your
journey didn't go as plannednecessarily, you know.
Yeah, not at all.
You didn't even make it, youdidn't even make it to South
America.
Nope.

SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
And the the blog, my blog is named Ushawa or Bust,
and Ushawa is the southernmostcity in the world in Argentina,
yeah.
And so I've been in bust modefor seven years now, and I am
anxious to get back out there.
Now that the book's done, I'mjust trying to figure out the
timing, and it's a little scaryto be like an out-of-work
computer programmer in your 50s,but I I gotta do it.

(14:10):
So my work, I work for UCLA now,and they they might give me a
like a leave of absence, uh, butI haven't asked them yet.
Hopefully, none of them watchthis podcast.

SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Yeah.
Speaking of that and continuingthe journey, will you kind of
just pick up in Panama?
Is that kind of what you want todo?
Pick up from there and and keepheading?

SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Or yeah, that was a big decision of mine because I I
kind of I didn't get to see allof Nicaragua that I wanted to,
because we'll probably talkabout later.
I got stuck.
There was a giant there's a biguprising there in 2018.
And so I kind of wanted to goback and do that.
And I thought it'd be fun to seesome of the places I went and
bring a book and be like, hey,you're in this book.

(14:48):
But then I started thinkingabout all the border crossings,
and they're such a pain in thebutt.
And it was like they were kindof fun the first time because it
was unique, but doing it again.
So the other option is to justship my car straight to Colombia
and start there, which is what Iwould have done.
I would have had to ship my carfrom Panama to Colombia.
And I'm leaning towards thatnow.
I'll I'll go visit some of theseplaces while the car is en

(15:10):
route, but I'll just go therelike a normal traveler without
my own car and like you know, govisit some things.
And I like I really likedAntigua, Guatemala.
It's probably my favorite placeon the whole trip.
It's this old colonial town,it's up in the mountains, so
it's cool, which is one of mymost important criteria.
Probably my the single mostimportant one.

(15:31):
That's like the cutoff is ifit's too hot, no, I'm not gonna
live here.
So yeah, I would spend some timethere, and I really enjoyed it

(16:09):
there, and maybe a few otherplaces.

SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Well, my my next question was you know, asking
about maybe you know, some somehighlights or a place or a
moment that sticks with you.
You mentioned Nicaragua.
Yeah, what happened inNicaragua?
Because I know there was anuprising.
What tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Yeah, so Nicaragua, I was in Honduras, getting
ready, you know, gonna go toNicaragua in a week or two.
Some friends of mine from LA hadcome down to hang out in
Honduras.
We went to Utilla Island andwe're diving.
It was it was wonderful.
Another favorite place on thetrip.
I guess Ortega, who's the youknow, the Sandinistas had this
revolution against this U.S.

(16:50):
supported dictator, Somoza, in1980.
And it's kind of been up anddown since then, and they
actually had real elections, butthen Ortega managed to get
elected again, and now he's justturned himself into a dictator,
just like the ones theyoverthrew in 1980.
But they still have like somesemblance of socialism, except

(17:11):
there were like one of thehostels we were at, they were
doing a charity event to for topay for kids' high school.
And I'm like, What why do theyhave to pay for high school?
And I asked these kids, like,yeah, I know Nicaragua's poor,
but the the trade-off is you'resupposed to have good education
and good healthcare, right?
And he's they're like, Yeah,that's all a lie.
I'm like, oh, that's depressing.

(17:31):
So Ortega decided to, you know,because the government's running
out of money, raise the age ofwhat their their version of
Social Security and also raisethe amount you have to put in or
lower the benefit or somethinglike that.
These mostly students and seniorcitizens came out in protest,
and for some reason they crackeddown on those really hard, and

(17:55):
they're shooting people withrubber bullets and beating
people up, and that blows up onsocial media, and then the whole
country blows up, and thenpeople are writing everywhere.
There's I think like 30 peopledied or something.
They don't have it, wasn't gunsversus guns because the
government has all the guns inNicaragua, most of them anyway.

(18:15):
So I was like, Well, I'm notgoing to Nicaragua, and then it
calmed down.
And you know, I'm emailingpeople in the hospitality
industry, and they're like,Yeah, yeah, you can come now,
it's fine.
I'm like, okay, sure.
And the plan was, well, ifthings get crazy again, I'll
just bug out and go to CostaRica.
And it things were fine, but Imissed by about two hours.
I went diving in the CornIslands, which are wonderful, by

(18:38):
the way.
Like Nicaragua is a greatcountry.
You can go visit it now.
You probably won't get caught upin all this craziness.
And if you don't have your owncar, it's a lot easier.
And I come back and I'm tryingto drive back across the
country.
I apparently the roadblock I raninto had been up for about two
hours.
That's the the roadblocks arethe way they the primary means
of protest all across LatinAmerica.
They'll just shut down commerceor traffic and to make a point.

(19:01):
Usually they'll let it go afterlike a day.
Like, okay, we made our point,you know, blah, blah, blah.
But there have been some uglyones in Mexico.
Sometimes they want money.
Like I went through one inChiapas, Mexico, that's run by
the Zapatistas, who are likethese kind of semi-separatist
group that they they havesomewhat autonomy.
So really it's not, it's kind oflike a government toll road if

(19:22):
you look at it that way.
It was a little scary becausethey have apparently sometimes
they'll be in a bad mood and goafter people's cars, but then
it's usually the people tried todrive around the roadblock or do
something dumb.
So, anyway, there's all thisstuff about just don't try to do
anything dumb with theroadblock.
And I ended up spending thenight there hoping it was going
to be these one of these one-dayroadblocks, but everybody was

(19:43):
telling me, no, this is gonna bea long time.
And so the next day I went backto Bluefields on the Caribbean
coast, and I came back a fewdays later.
Roadblock's still there,everybody, all the cars are
still there.
I see the same people, exceptthey look like they haven't
showered for a few days, andthey're they're just hanging
around, truckers are playingcards.
I'm like, oh crap.

(20:03):
And then I finally heard thatthey might be lighting through
ambulances and cars withinternational plates.
So, and I have Californialicense plates.
So that ended up being thiscrazy day where I had to talk my
way through these things, andit's these it's a mixture of
these peasant farmers andstudent revolutionaries, and the

(20:25):
students all have bandanascovering their face, and they
have these homemade rocketlauncher things.
It's made out of like PVC pipe.
It's kind of like an M80 orsomething, like it's not a full
stick of dynamite, but it'spretty good blast on like a
beefed up bottle rocket orsomething, maybe.
It could kill you if it goes offright by your head.
Uh, it would probably justbounce off the car, but if
they're shooting at your car,you're screwed anyway.

(20:46):
They're gonna you can't getanywhere, they're gonna pull you
out of the car and beat the hellout of you.
So I ended up having to talk myway out through a bunch of
those, through a very much a lotof confused, pissed-off student
revolutionaries.
And I picked up these other twoguys along the way, and it was
probably the craziest day of mylife, I would say.
That was the dramatic climax.
And then after that, it wasCosta Rica, which was probably

(21:08):
you know the wealthiest countryin Central America, and and uh
so it was it was total cultureshock, going from that to a
bunch of Costa Rican resortswith front coked up frat bros
running around.

SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
I'm like this is this is this is amazing.
Okay, so you had to talk yourway through it.
I mean, what's kind of goingwhat are you what's going
through your mind?
I mean, are you were you scaredat all?
Like, what was the thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm just my originalfears were that they would be
like yelling at me like, who thehell do you think you are?
Look at these people that havebeen waiting here for a week,
which they're they're right.
But I saw one of the guys that Ihad seen on the first night, and
he he was like, Are you gettingthrough?
And I'm like, Talvez, maybe likeI didn't want to rub it in
because I I I went up first andasked.

(21:56):
The farmers said yes, so I gottago back and get my car, and then
they gotta let me drive past allthe cars that have been waiting
there forever, but they werehappy for me, and then people
got excited because it's likeseven days of monotony and the
heat, so they they're like, Oh,something's happening.
So by the time I get up there,the there's just a hundred
people or so around theroadblock, and the farmers let

(22:17):
me through because they saidthey would, but they let me
through a weird way that didn'tmake any sense.
And then as I'm so but I got outand gave them a six pack or a
12-pack of beer.
That was one of my barteringchips that I brought.
I I loaded up all thesedifferent gasoline like Mad Max,
like I'm gonna trade gasolinefor freedom or something.
And I pulled out the 12-pack,and there the original guy I
talked to, I gave it to him.

(22:38):
So he was really happy.
He's the big shot now because Iknew a nice cold beer at that
roadblock would feel reallygood.
So I end up, but then I hearthis, hey, hey, hey, I hear
these guys yelling off in thedistance.
I'm like, oh shit.
I knew it had to have somethingto do with me, but I pretended
like I didn't hear it becausethe farmers were directing me
forward, and I just got in thecar and went forward.

(22:58):
And it ends up turning into acow field, just like I thought.
Like, that is not the road Ineed to be on.
I need to go to the right, notforward.
So I have to slink back to theintersection, and here's this
little dude, student dude, withhis rocket launcher standing
right in the middle of the road,and I just have to like itch up
to him.
I didn't, I had my windowsrolled down so I could hear

(23:19):
things, but uh all the people atthe roadblock just converged on
me right then.
And I'm like, man, I kind ofwish my windows were rolled up,
but it seems like rolling themup now would be would you know
would be a bad sign that I'mscared about.
And next thing I know, there'sall these guys sticking their
head in my window, andeverybody's yelling at
everybody.
And luckily, some of them hadbeers in their hands, so I'm

(23:41):
like, well, that's they'reprobably arguing for me.
And I could hear them yellingthe word international a lot.
And the little dude made his wayaround the car, and he starts
just rattling off blah blah blahblah blah blah blah, like not
hospitality Spanish, that youknow, the hotels are where they
to go talk real slow, like he'sjust and I'm like, Lo siento,
like no comprende.

(24:01):
And finally he goes to Arma, andI knew what that meant.
Like, are you armed?
I'm like, no, no, no, no, yeah,you're armed, dude.
That's not me.
And he and he was he kind ofheld his little rocket launcher
thing, like, damn right I'marmed.
Uh, and it just something in mybrain was like, okay, maybe this
guy just wants to show who'sboss.

(24:23):
And I because the whole thingwas I got yes once, I'm not
gonna ask again.
You know, they they told me Icould go pass.
And so, all right, let me justask this guy again.
I I pass so porfavor, you know,may I pass?
And he just thinks about it fora second and he motioned I could
I could proceed.

unknown (24:41):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
That was yeah, that was the moment right there.
Because if he says no, I'mscrewed.
And if I don't get out of therein time and my visa runs out, I
they probably keep my car.
I don't think the government'sgonna be at all sympathetic
because the border people areall they see a chance to get a
lot of money when when somebodyoverstays their I knew somebody
who overstayed their car visa bylike 12 hours in Costa Rica and

(25:05):
had to end up paying basicallywhat the car was worth to get it
back, like$7,000 or something.
And and it was this thing wherethere was a lawyer and they were
milking them, and they're prettysure the whole thing.
So yeah, that wasnerve-wracking.
And and people got killed too.
Like in Bluefields, where I wasstaying, a reporter got shot,
and both sides were claiming theother side did it, of course.

(25:25):
So it was tense, and there was afear that I may have to decide
between because you could stillfly out from the Bluefields
airport, but I'd have to leavemy car behind.
And and the hotel guy was like,Oh, you can keep it in this
guy's garage.
I'm like, Yeah, when can I evercome back and get it?

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
And what kind of vehicle did you take?
It's a Toyota FJ Cruiser.
Okay, an FJ Cruiser Toyota,gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah, it's like a four-wheel drive, it's pretty
rounded.
I'd say it looks kind of like abig marshmallow, it's like
silver, which they never sold inMexico or Central America.
So I stick out like a sore thumbanyway.
When I was at that roadblock inNicaragua, everybody, all these
people are coming in from thecountryside because this is like
a big event for them.
And it the first night it waslike a party.
Everybody's having fun, they'replaying music.

(26:09):
By day six, everybody wasmiserable.
It was not a party anymore.
But there, every group of peoplethat walked by would notice my
car, and then inevitably theguys would turn around and look
at me, and I'm like, yep, yep,big red-headed gringo in a
silver marshmallow car that'snever sold in Nicaragua.
That's me.
Yeah, that's kind of why Ididn't stick around.
I was like, you know, the longerI stay here, the more it's not

(26:31):
like there would be any chancefor cops to help or do anything
if I if somebody decided to messwith me.
And but but I wasn't ever reallyafraid, like even in Nicaragua,
like nobody ever asked formoney.
The one guy who hooked me upwith the farmers did at the very
end after I was already gettingthrough, and I gave him a few
dollars in Cordovas.
But they're really Nicaragua haslike really low crime even now.

(26:54):
You know, they're really proudof that.
It's they're just dirt poor.
I mean, just the differencecrossing the border from
Honduras to Nicaragua, you couldsee, and Honduras is like the
second poorest country inCentral America.
In Honduras, at least, peoplewere driving up to the uh border
in like tuck-tucks and droppingpeople off.
And Nicaragua is these bicyclerickshaws, they didn't even have

(27:15):
any powered taxi vehicles at theborder, and these poor guys,
like in the you know, theCentral American heat peddling
these uh people in their bicyclerickshaws from the border.
I thought they were gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
You said you went from LA, so you started in LA.
So your first, I mean,obviously, the first spot you
hit is is Mexico.
That's the first country you goin.
Yeah, and Mexico's a hugecountry, Mexico's big.
It is, it's like a bunch ofdifferent countries.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so yeah, what were yourthoughts going through Mexico?
What was that like?
Kind of your first you know,experience.

SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
So I had, and this is you know, to my shame, since
I moved out to California, I'dspent a lot of time exploring
the West and going to all thenational parks, but I'd never
been south of Ensenada in Baja,which Baja's like Tijuana is the
kind of border city, and thenEnsenada's a little nicer, fun
city a little further south.

(28:05):
I'd never been south of that.
And the Baja Peninsula is 800miles long, and the roads aren't
really that good.
So it you can't do it in lessthan three days.
So that was incredible.
Just seeing Baja, it's it'sstill so wild.
Like it's and I just happened tobump into this couple who were
really nice, and the guy's kindof a surfer, but not like a

(28:26):
hardcore surfer, but but youknow, into it.
We ended up meeting up all theway down the peninsula on
different beaches, and I got tokind of experience surf culture
a little bit and and actuallytry surfing once, which didn't
go great, but it was still a lotof fun.
And God, just the naturalbeauty.
There's in central Baja, there'slike these a dozen different

(28:47):
kinds of crazy vegetation.
Like there's these elephanttrees that are these big gnarled
things that are like as big as ahouse.
There's you know, there's thingsthat look like the Seguro
cactuses in Arizona, there's theorgan pipe cactuses, there's a
million of those.
I forget what else.
But the this the big crazy onethat only exists there is it's
called a boujoum tree.

(29:08):
And it looks kind of like anupside-down carrot, but then the
top will like curl around andusually split off into multiple,
and then they'll have theseorange flowers on the end.
And it it's total basicallyevery travel writer that you has
to mention Dr.
Seuss when you talk about theboujon trees.
It's a law.
You have to say Seussy under Dr.
Seuss, but it was just it was socool.

(29:30):
So Baja ended up having thesemoments that I call Baja moments
in the book that were like justthese hit your head, like, where
else on earth would you ratherbe than right here, right now,
in this moment?
Like this one of the best sunsunrises I've ever seen.
And I I could hear this sound,and I didn't know what it was.

(29:51):
I was like, are Mike and Kellyhaving sex in the van or
something?
Like, what is this?
And I I realized eventually Isaw them, it was dolphins, like
maybe 50 yards offshore.
And you because you could seethem breaking the surface, but
it but it was the first time I'dever like heard dolphins before
I could even see them.
And then we got like a wholenature show of these birds would

(30:13):
pick up abalone or whatever andand drop it on the rocks and
then come down, you know, tobreak it.
It was just like watching somenature documentary with David
Attenborough or something.
And somehow then Mike and Kellygot up and they had found this
watermelon, and it just didn'ttaste like any water.
Watermelon you've ever had inyour life.
It was like the most rich,luscious, crazy.

(30:36):
And so and there's just thesemoments.
And if you talk to anybody whotravels a lot through Baja,
they'll know exactly what you'retalking about.
Where you're just like, youknow, where else on earth would
you rather be?
Like there is no spot that couldbe better than this right now.
So that was really cool.
I I spent probably a month, Iwould say, in Baja, which I
wasn't expecting to do.

SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
And then you take the ferry over to the Okay.
So then you took the ferry over.
Now who's who's Mike and Kelly?
Is that who you're travelingwith?

SPEAKER_01 (31:01):
Sorry.
Um, that was the couple I metthat the guy was kind of a
surfer.
Okay, gotcha.
She was into yoga.
And they became I'm still reallygood friends with them.
Yeah, but they they kind ofintroduced me to these different
places.
They've been they're snowbirdsthat come down from Whistler,
Canada.
Oh, gotcha.
Okay.
A lot of Canadians in Baja.
So they work in the constructionindustry, and then for the

(31:23):
winter, they you know, they workall summer, and then for the
winter they come down and theywere going for a while someplace
warm somewhere on Earth.
By that point, it kind ofsettled on Baja, and they've
they've now built like a littlevacation house down there.
And I haven't been down sincethey built it.
I saw the plot of land thesecond time I went down.
Yeah, so take the ferry over.

(31:43):
And then for me, for centralMexico, I ended up staying in
Puebla for a while, um, takingSpanish lessons.
The food is kind of thehighlight of that's the thing I
remember the most about centralMexico is Puebla and Oaxaca are
kind of the you know the heartof sort of old Mexico, and they
have a pretty fierce foodrivalry, which I think keeps

(32:05):
both of them on their game.
You know, I'm I'm Italian, Ihave to put Italy first, but
Central Mexico is like 1A to me,you know.
And if if I wasn't Italian, itmight be number one as far as
the best food.
It's just there's so manydifferent things that like
there's these things calledTlyutas that are sort of like a
crispy pizza thing or something,just stuff that you'd never even

(32:28):
heard of.
But you come around the cornerand there's somebody, you know,
for like two dollars, somebody'scooking them on these.
It's a traditional comal, it'sthis rounded dish that they cook
it on, and it's just incredible.
And like the mole, like I reallylike mole a lot, the chocolate
sauce.
It's just yeah, so a lot of foodin central Mexico.

(32:49):
And then I met up with somepeople in so to me, in my mind,
I break Mexico down into Baja,Central Mexico, and then the
Yucatan.
Now, obviously, there's otherparts, but there's not a whole
lot, it's not super safe nearthe U.S.
border.
So, you know, the northernnorthern Mexico that's not in
Baja is you you pretty much mostpeople just blow through it, you

(33:13):
don't spend a lot of time there.
But there's still some nicecities, and San Miguel de Ande
is really nice.
Then I started checking out alot of like the Mesoamerican
ruins, and I didn't know in thebook that I was gonna do such a
deep dive into Mesoamerica thatwasn't really the plan, but I
just went to these placesbecause they were interesting,
and then I came back and startedresearching and found out all
these crazy stories that were,you know, like in high school, I

(33:37):
swear they just taught us likeCortez conquered the Aztecs,
that's about all you need toknow, we're done, you know.
Yep.
And there's so much, yeah.
I s I swear we maybe spent oneday on 3,000 years of
Mesoamerican civilization.
Yeah, I just for the book, Ibasically just went whatever
interested me.
And then the same way, becauseof the crazy adventure in
Nicaragua, I ended up kind ofdoing a deep dive into

(33:58):
Nicaraguan politics, and whichis fascinating.
And then from that to tell thatstory, I also needed to kind of
go into the other Guatemala, ElSalvador, Honduras, and because
they all had their own sort ofmaybe revolutions that were
going on, and the U.S.
is supporting the you knowdictatorial government, and
Nicaragua is the only one thatactually succeeded.

(34:20):
But it was really interesting tolearn all that stuff.
And you know, I kind of knew therough outline of that, but I
didn't really know a lot of thedetails.
Now, the colonial period inbetween all that is just is
pretty boring to me.
It's like 300 years, yeah, itwas bad.
The Spanish subjugatedeverybody.
So some governors stabbed eachother in the back or whatever,
you know, that's about it.

(34:41):
So I didn't I didn't spend a lotof time on the colonial period
because that didn't reallyinterest me.
But the the cool part was getthen getting to Costa Rica, it
sort of made this natural arc.
Like, okay, we saw thecountries, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras, where therevolution did not succeed.
Then we saw Nicaragua where therevolution did succeed.
How'd that go?
Well, not so great there either.

(35:02):
And so which way did Costa Ricago?
Well, it turns out there's athird option.
Costa Rica disbanded theirmilitary in 1948.
So they didn't have to worryabout a military dictatorship,
you know, subjugating their ownpeople.
And they basically took the leapof faith that the U.S.
would prevent them from gettinginvaded.
You know, the U.S.
doesn't want a country in theirhemisphere that close to be

(35:24):
invaded.
And also they felt like if okay,if Nicaragua attacks us, we can
we can muster an army in enoughtime.
But other than that, we don'tneed one.
They're the success story ofCentral America now because of
that.
You know, there's a lot of otherlike I go in the book.
There's a lot of other reasons.
Costa Ricans are generally likethey pride themselves on
negotiating things out insteadof violence, you know.

(35:45):
So they kind of had the rightdisposition, I guess, to begin
with, but but they really didall that money that they would
have spent on military spent onthe infrastructure, education,
and like 25% of the country isnational parks.
And now that's that's why it'sthe jewel of Central America,
and everybody wants to go visitthere.
And then Panama is a whole otherthing because of the canal.
Like everything in Panama isabout the canal, basically.

(36:07):
And that was fascinating too.
I I rode through the PanamaCanal on a on a small sailboat.
You can volunteer to be a linehandler in these boats because
every boat needs one captain andfour line handlers, no matter
how small it is.
Just in case the boat has to gothrough all by itself, and you
have to tie up to each one ofthe four sides.
So me and this Irish guyvolunteered on this sailboat

(36:29):
with this French couple andtheir dad happened to be on it.
And that was really wild.
It was really cool being at thebottom of one of these locks
with these giant steel doors.
I mean, everything is it's onthe scale of fitting up the
biggest ships in the world, youknow, and we're in there with
our little sailboat.
It just felt like some TwilightZone episode or something, like
and you're just looking up atthe top.

(36:51):
That was that was a lot of fun.
And then I kind of learned thewhole history of the Panama
Canal and tried to pick out theinteresting parts of that and
put them in the book.

SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
Let's talk about the book a little bit then.
Leading up to that though, youwere you're blogging about this
experience, right?
Kind of just in real time or no?
Mostly real time.

SPEAKER_01 (37:07):
I think I fell behind maybe, yeah, like a month
or something.
I would be like, okay, I gottaget caught up on my blog.
I would have the pictures.
The pictures kind of helped tomake sure my memory didn't lose.
And if it was something else, Iwould take notes.
And then yeah, I did the blog.
Uh, you know, at first I waslike, it was kind of still the
time when a lot of people beforepodcasts really blew up like

(37:28):
they have now, and people werestill promoting their blogs a
lot, and some a few people'sblogs actually kind of blew up.
But I was I figured out prettyquickly early on, okay, I don't
have any angle that's gonna makemy blog blow up.
I'm just gonna do this forfriends and family, but it's
gonna be the skeleton for a bookthat I'm gonna write.

SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Okay.
You had that in your mind that,hey, this will probably be a
book, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (37:47):
Yeah, I said it's my Bill Bryson style travel memoir
that I'm gonna write.
And I had no idea I was actuallygonna complete that.
I that's what I said, but yeah,it kind of blows my mind that I
actually went through with it.
But again, COVID.
I would have lost my mind if Ididn't have something during
COVID like that.
So yeah, it'll be interestingwhen I go back and do South

(38:09):
America, hopefully pretty soon,within six months or so, doing
the blog, knowing now that I'mplanning to do a second book.
How will I treat the blogdifferently?
Will I be more I don't know.
I don't know what it's gonnafeel like, but I'm excited to
find out.

SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
So what's the name of the book?
And I guess it's just been aboutMexico and Central America for
the most part, then.

SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Yeah, it's called Land Without a Continent.
And the reason for that is Ijust always just ask people,
what continent is Costa Rica in?
Do you know?
Is it North America?
You you got that right, andwhich puts you in about 5%,
because most people either saySouth America or Central
America.
And Central America is correct,but it's not a continent.
It's not a continent, right?

(38:51):
But the but the funny part isthey don't think they're in
North America.
To them, a North American is aCanadian and a person from the
United States.
And that and that's also, evenofficially, to them, the
Americas is all one continent.
Every country south of the US,except maybe Belize, like the
the non-Spanish speaking ones,might not, think the Americas is

(39:14):
all one continent.
And I didn't know any of thisbefore the book.
That's why like the Olympicsflags only has five rings on it.
It's uh Europe, Africa, Asia,Oceania, and the Americas,
because they made that flag likeover a hundred years ago.
They only turned it into twocountry continents in like World
War II or after World War II.
It's just I I didn't realizethat.
Like continents, it's all aboutwhere you learned geography.

(39:38):
Russia, they don't considerEurope and Asia two different
continents.
They consider it all onecontinent.
They're like, we don't want tobe split in half, we want to be
all and Japan too, and then alsoall the romance countries in
Europe see the Americas as onecontinent because they're like
in solidarity with their LatinAmerican counterparts.
So to me, Central America feelslike the most untethered group

(40:01):
of countries that isn't anisland anywhere in the world.
The place they supposedly liveat, according to us, North
America, they don't thinkthey're in North America.
And hardly anybody in NorthAmerica knows that they're,
according to us, at leasttechnically in North America.
So it just feels that's whythat's the name of the uh the
reason for the title of the bookis it feels like a land that

(40:23):
doesn't have a continent.
I'm debating if I write, I wantto do a whole series of books
like South America and then kindof do the whole world.
And I'm debating if I shouldcome up with something that's
kind of a similar like SouthAmerica could maybe be upside
down continent, and then but Idon't know.
I'm not gonna torture themetaphor too much if it doesn't
work.

SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Well, and the in the book, I mean, it's not only just
your experience and you knowyour travel adventures that you
had through through the area,but you like you said, you talk
you kind of give some historyand things about the places you
went through as well, right?
Is that what I'm yeah okay?

SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I yeah, I don't know if you'veif you've ever read a Bill
Bryson book.
That was kind of my eye-openingmoment, like Walk in the Woods.
Well, if you haven't, Walk inthe Woods is the best one.
That's okay.
Very accessible.
They made a movie about it withRobert Redford, but it's this
funny, you know, he's he's funnyas hell.
It's this compelling story, butthen he would go on a tangent
for two pages on the Americanchestnut tree and what this

(41:20):
glorious tree that was as as bigas like Sequoia is, but they're
all gone now because a Europeanblight killed them, basically.
That was my I was like, wait,you can do that, you can be
funny, tell a funny, interestingstory, but also go into a deep
dive in any subject that strikesyour curiosity along the way,
and not just give us like one ortwo sentences.

(41:41):
Like, really, okay, we're gonnasatisfy, you know, we're gonna
mine this for everythinginteresting and then regurgitate
that back for you, basically.
So that's the the style.
And yeah, I ended up doing adeep dive into Mesoamerica, like
the Aztecs, the Maya, because Ialso visited the site.
So it really that on that one, Iwas reading some books, and then

(42:01):
I couldn't verify the stuff inthe books, and I'd find all
these crazy things online, butyou know, online might be full
of crap.
So I was like, how do I evenverify all this stuff?
I don't want to be out theregiving bad information.
On of all places, Facebook adshad uh this thing, great
courses.
You know, they have a bunch ofdifferent and it was this course
in Mesoamerica from this guynamed Ed Barnhart, and I started

(42:25):
and I it was like a hundred,there was like a little eight
episode one that was reallycheap, and then the the whole
hundred episode or the 48episode one was like a hundred
and something bucks, and it wasgreat.
I'm like, oh, this is what I'vebeen looking for.
It's I'd say it's kind of likethe equivalent of taking like a
freshman college level class inMesoamerica or something like
that, maybe.
And then it's in the middle ofCOVID, and I reached out to him

(42:47):
like, hey, would you beinterested in being the fact
checker in my book?
And he was he was willing.
So I'm like, oh, this is great.
Yeah, that then I knew I had it.
And then I'm like, okay, I canactually do this deep dive and I
can do it right.
And I don't have to be terrifiedthat I'm spewing a bunch of
bullshit at people.

SPEAKER_00 (43:06):
That's amazing.
And where can people get thebook?
Like, where is it just onAmazon?

SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
Like, where do you where can they get
Amazonbookshop.org.
I always like to give them ashout out because they support
local bookstores.
I've been trying to get it inthere's some local bookstores
around LA, but that requireshustle and going around with
your little tip sheet andbugging people.
And I tend to do that once, andthen if I get rejected, it just
you know, okay, that it's gonnatake me two months to work up

(43:31):
the I don't have it in me to bean entrepreneur.
Yeah, pretty much anywhere,Barnes and Noble, anywhere that
you can get it online.
And it's there's a Kindleversion that's pretty cheap.
It's$2.99 now, and then thepaperback.

SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
So when when people read this, what are you hoping
that they get out of it whenthey they read your book?

SPEAKER_01 (43:49):
I hope they I hope they think it's funny, and I
hope in the end they think, man,I learned a lot of the
worthwhile stuff to know aboutthe ancient and modern history
and also the culture, the peoplethat are there now, the food of
this part of the world, that fora lot of Americans might as well
be a blank spot on the map.

(44:10):
You know, a lot of Americans,maybe they'll go to Cancun or
Cabo, but they're they're notpeople aren't usually going to
central Honduras, you know, tohang out.
And even though it's it's rightin our own backyard, you know.
And also I think that it's it'svery different than what people
expect.
You know, you you think thatit's because you see the worst
of it, you see the gangs and andcrime, and it's actually uh I

(44:34):
was never, I don't think I wasever treated rudely once on the
entire trip.
Imagine somebody being able tosay that about driving through
the United States or whatever,you know.
It's just wonderful people, andso that's hopefully they get out
of it.
They laugh, they learn, and theyyou know, kind of build up some
empathy for this part of theworld that's going through it a

(44:57):
bit right now, but it's not thefault of most of the people that
live there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
When you set out on this trip, you were you know you
had something in your mind ofone thing, and then obviously
you didn't get all the way toSouth America, like you said.
Did it exceed I mean, did itexceed your expectations?
Was it a lot different than youthought?
I mean, what just kind oflooking overall, what was it
like for you?

SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Yeah, that's a good question.
It's definitely exceeded myexpectations.
Uh, it definitely changed me.
Can I verbalize all the waysthat it changed me?
Not really.
I tell people, ask me on mydeathbed, maybe I'll have it
figured out.
But I know it did change me.
And I know it changed the way Ilook at you know the that part
of the world.

(45:40):
It also changed the way I lookat the rest of my life in that
it cost me at least three timesmore just to exist in Los
Angeles than it did to do thistrip where I'm driving or having
the trip of my lifetime drivingaround and seeing all these
places.
$2,000 a month is living high onthe hawk for doing that trip,
you know, which is still a lotof money.

(46:01):
But you know, when you're my ageand you don't have any kids and
you've saved up from a decentjob for a while, you know.
So it made me realize like, Idon't even if I spend all my
money before I die, I couldprobably go to Honduras and live
on Social Security.
So it gave me a little less fearof, you know, because I don't
want to do that.
I don't want to be one of thosepeople that just saves and then
lives on the interest and youknow, screw it.

(46:23):
I'm spending the principal.
I'm gonna go have fun before Igo out.
Yes, that was probably one ofthe those are probably the two
big things.
It's just learning, and it'salways like that when you
travel.
That's the whole reason totravel, is that it's never like
you think, it's never what youhave built up in your mind.
You know, in like in ElSalvador, I dropped a five out
of my pocket, and this guy comesrunning up to me after me with

(46:45):
that at the border in ElSalvador.
But you think the border betweenEl Salvador and Honduras would
be kind of a sketchy place todrop a five-dollar bill, and the
guy you know came running afterme.
And by that point in the trip, Iwould have been surprised if
that didn't happen, because Ijust knew how you know honest
and decent people are downthere.
And that is not the image thatmost Americans have.
It's not the image that I hadbefore the trip.

(47:07):
You know, I feel like if if morepeople had you know just a
deeper experience with that partof the world, they would have a
lot more empathy.
And you know, for for the peoplewho are coming here just trying
to live the American dream,basically, and work their asses
off, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (47:24):
All right, I'm gonna go through, I don't I guess
we'll call them rapid fire typequestions.
We're kind of we've beenchatting for a while, so I kind
of want to ask you a few things.
Your creativity, which fuelsyour creativity more?
Would you say coffee shop in SanFrancisco or your road trip
through Central America?
Road trip through CentralAmerica.

SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
Easily not even close.
I love it.
Yeah, I don't even drink coffeeanymore.
It gives me heartburn.
So I drink Diet Dr.
Pepper.
That's my coffee in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 (47:51):
Hey, Diet Dr.
Pepper, that's my thing too.
I love Diet Dr.
Pepper.
So I know you we mentionedearlier that you were you know a
modern dabbler, you've dabbledin all kinds of things.
So if you could instantly masterone new skill today, what would
that be?

SPEAKER_01 (48:04):
Speaking Spanish, I I you know I can get by just
barely, and I've studied hard.
I studied hard before the trip.
Everywhere that I was stationedsomewhere for more than a week,
I would find some place to takeSpanish lessons, and I can still
just barely converse enough toyou know talk to the hotel
people or whatever.
I can't I can't have aconversation.

(48:24):
And it makes me sad because onthe trip we went to Belize,
which is the one place thatpeople speak English, and I
realized, oh my god, I can askpeople about stuff, I can, you
know, banter with the waitstaff, and it's just such a
better experience.
So I yeah, like I would love tobe fluent in another language
other than English, and Spanishis the one I'd pick because it

(48:46):
has the most practicalapplication for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
I like that.
That's a good answer.
So of all your pursuits, youknow, software guy, poker,
comedy, photography, writing,which one has surprised you the
most about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 (49:00):
I guess writing, because I didn't think I had it
in me to complete a 500-pagebook and spend four and a half
years on it.
I'm not the most self-motivatedperson in the world, but I just
got in a groove where I did alittle something every day.
And I think if you do a littlesomething every day, you
eventually get something done.
But and you know, obviously I'mstill not as far as being

(49:23):
self-motivated to go out ofthere and market myself, I'm
terrible at it.
But at least, you know, I neverthought I I would complete
something as a project asmonumental as as writing a book
for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
I think it's awesome.
I mean, you like you said, fourand a half years of working at
it.
I think that's amazing that youdid it.
That's that's awesome.
All right.
What's uh what's one messageyou'd like to leave listeners
who maybe looking or you knowwant to make a step to maybe,
okay, maybe I'll do the the PanAmerican Highway, or maybe, you
know, some sort of adventure,whatever it may be.
What would you, you know, whatwould you kind of advise would

(49:58):
you give?

SPEAKER_01 (49:59):
As far as the adventure, yeah.
If you're itching to do it, youknow, do your research, don't be
stupid about it, but definitelydo it.
As far as the Pan AmericanHighway, I'm not pushing people
to drive it because I don'tthink that's really, you know,
environmentally responsiblenecessarily.
And also it's a pain in the ass.
And you know, like it reallyadds a lot of extra work that

(50:19):
this there's some benefit inthat you can be really
spontaneous and go into theserural places as long as you're
sure it's safe and that youcouldn't go if you were just
backpacking and taking buses andwhatever other transit.
But you can also backpack mostof the time, rent a car every
now and then, and still getthose same experiences.
So I would say definitely do thePan American Highway, but you

(50:41):
know, I'm not encouraging peopleto do it in their own vehicle
because it's probably, you know,it's a lot more environmentally
sound than take a bus, I wouldsay.

SPEAKER_00 (50:49):
And my final question, this is a question I
like to ask everybody, becauseJourney with Jake, it's it's not
only your journey, but it's alsoan adventure podcast.
So for you, what does adventuremean to you?

SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Well, I met this guy on the trip who it didn't
actually make it in the book,but he said that an adventure is
something that you may or maynot come back from alive, but
you will definitely come back achanged person.
And I don't think he inventedthat quote either.
I think that's some of it, sojust but I love that quote.
And another one I love aboutadventure is the difference

(51:21):
between an ordeal and anadventure is attitude.
You know, if you have thatspirit of like, okay, well, this
sucks, but it's also anadventure, and it'll probably
make a good story when I'm done,you know, then you'll have a lot
better attitude than if you'rejust miserable the whole time,
you know, when things go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
Matt, thank you so much.
This was a lot of fun.
I enjoyed learning about who youare.
Your adventure sound amazing,which and just everything else
you've done from photography topoker to comedy.
You've done a lot.
I think it's amazing.
And I'm looking forward to uh topart two as well when you get uh
get into South America.
Yeah, when I do South Americafor sure.
Yeah, this is great.
What an incredible journey withMatt Savino.

(52:00):
I loved hearing about hisadventures along the Pan
American Highway, his experienceduring the uprising in
Nicaragua, and how he blendshumor, creativity, and curiosity
into every experience.
Matt's unique perspective as awriter, comedian, and
photographer truly embodies thespirit of Journey with Jake,
finding meaning in every mile.
Be sure to check out his book,Land Without a Continent, and

(52:22):
follow his adventures onInstagram at ushwaya or bust,
and that's Ushwaya underscore orunderscore bust to see stunning
images and the stories thatcontinue to shape his journey.
As always, thank you so much forlistening.
If you enjoyed this episode,please take a moment to rate and
review the show on Apple orSpotify.

(52:42):
It helps others find theseinspiring stories.
And don't forget to follow me onInstagram at Journey with Jake
Podcast for behind-the-scenesclips, personal stories, and
updates on future guests.
Next up, I'm sitting down withMelinda and Troy Hicks, the
hilarious and heartfelt couplebehind Hicks in the Wild on
Instagram.
We'll talk about love, laughter,and living life with purpose.

(53:06):
So you won't want to miss it.
Until then, keep chasingadventure, and remember, it's
not always about the destinationas it is about the journey.
Take care, everybody.