The Remote Rebellion: Choosing Freedom Over Fear with Michelle Coulson

What happens when you choose freedom over fear? Michelle Coulson's story reveals the extraordinary path that unfolds when you dare to break free from conventional expectations.

Michelle always knew she wasn't destined for the traditional path. Even as a child growing up in a small town outside Manchester, she dreamed of life "abroad" – though she couldn't yet define where that would be. After a year in Spain with her family at age 12, the seed of adventure took root, setting her on a trajectory that would eventually lead to solo cycling across Europe and founding a business that helps others reclaim their freedom.

Her journey weaves through working at a Florida country club in her twenties (where she formed her initial impressions of Americans), spontaneously visiting Times Square for New Year's Eve with a stranger she met on the subway, and eventually embarking on a transformative solo cycling trip from Montenegro to France. Despite the challenges of mountain terrain, cold temperatures, and loneliness, this journey crystallized her understanding of what truly matters in life.

When the pandemic hit, Michelle's adventurous spirit couldn't be contained by lockdown restrictions. She escaped to Cornwall in search of surf and her "happy place" by the ocean, eventually making her way to Bali in 2021. When her employer demanded she return to the office after 18 months of successful remote work, Michelle made the bold decision to quit rather than compromise her freedom.

This pivotal moment led to the birth of Remote Rebellion, her company dedicated to helping others secure remote work that aligns with their values and desired lifestyle. Drawing from her extensive recruitment experience and personal journey, Michelle now leads a global team scattered across seven countries, proving that work can happen from anywhere when you build with intention.

Whether you're contemplating a career change, dreaming of location independence, or simply seeking inspiration to live more adventurously, Michelle's story demonstrates that the question isn't whether you can break free – it's whether you're willing to take that first step. As she says, adventure means "breaking out of your comfort zone and trying something a little new and maybe a little scary."

Ready to rebel against limitations and design a life on your own terms? Visit remoterebellion.com and follow Michelle's journey on Instagram at @remote_rebellion.

Want to be a guest on Journey with Jake? Send me a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/journeywithjake 

Visit LandPirate.com to get your gear that has you, the adventurer, in mind.  Use the code "Journey with Jake" to get an additional 15% off at check out.

Visit geneticinsights.co and use the code "DISCOVER25" to enjoy a sweet 25% off your first purchase.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What do you do when the nine-to-five grind starts to
feel like a cage?
For Michelle Colson, the answerwas simple break free From
leaving corporate life behind tolaunching remote rebellion and
biking solo from Montenegro toFrance.
Michelle is all about choosingfreedom over fear.
In today's episode, we diveinto her journey of adventure,
remote work and what it reallymeans to live life.

(00:22):
On your terms, let's hit theroad.
This is going to be a good one.
Welcome to Journey with Jake.
This is a podcast aboutadventure and how, through our
adventures, we can overcome thechallenges of life that come our
way.
While I expect you will learnsome things about different
adventures, this show willentertain you.
Each episode will featuredifferent guests or guests as
they share experiences andstories from the different

(00:44):
adventures they have been on.
Not only will you beentertained, but you'll also
hear the failures and trialseach guest faces and what they
have done or are doing toovercome the hardships that come
their way.
My goal is to take each of uson a journey through the
experiences of my guests, withthe hope that you'll be
entertained and inspired toovercome your day-to-day

(01:04):
challenges.
After all, it's not all aboutthe destination as it is about
the journey.
Hey everyone, welcome to anotherepisode of Journey with Jake.

(01:26):
I'm your host, jake Bushman,and I'm so glad you're here.
If you're new to the show, thisis where we dive into the
adventures and inspiring storiesof people who are stepping out
of their comfort zones and trulyliving life.
You can listen to Journey withJake on Apple Podcasts, spotify,
youtube or wherever you tune in.
Be sure to follow me onInstagram at
JourneyWithJakePodcast forbehind-the-scenes content and

(01:48):
guest updates.
If you're looking for moregreat shows, check out the
PodMatch Podcast Network atpodmatchcom forward slash
network.
Today's guest, michelle Colson,brings an inspiring mix of
adventure and intentional living, from solo biking across Europe
to founding Remote Rebellion.
She's all about helping peoplereclaim their freedom and design

(02:09):
a life they truly love.
If you enjoy this episode, besure to check out episode 153
with Ryan Mellon.
Like Michelle, ryan took boldsteps to break out of the norm
and embrace a more fulfilling,adventurous path.
I know you'll find inspirationin both their journeys.
All right, let's get into thisconversation with Michelle
Coulson.
Well, this is great, I've gotMichelle, and is it Coulson?

(02:31):
Am I saying that right?
Spot on, spot on, perfect.
Michelle Coulson, welcome toJourney with Jake.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you, it's really good to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you here.
First of all, you're someonewho's adventurous.
I noticed that about you, firstand foremost, that you're
adventurous.
You've done a lot of fun things, including a solo bike trip,
cycling trip from Montenegro toFrance, which we're going to
dive into a little bit, butyou're also the owner of Remote
Rebellion, which we're going totalk about a little bit as well.
Before we do all that, though,I'd like to know a little bit

(03:02):
about you, kind of where you'refrom, who you are, where you
grew up, that sort of thing.
So, if you don't mind, justgive us a little background on
Michelle.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, sure, so my name is Michelle.
I am from the UK, from a smalltown outside of Manchester, a
town called Bolton.
Growing up, I never really feltlike that was home for me, even
though that's where I spent mychildhood.
My family and I actually movedto Spain for a year.
There's a longer version tothat story, but the purpose was

(03:29):
to try and save their marriage.
My sister and I were about 11,12, and they decided to go to
Spain buy a bar in the south ofSpain.
Neither of them have ever owneda bar or had a business before,
and my dad's a drinker, so thebar business didn't work out too
well, as you can imagine.
So we did that for a year.

(03:50):
But for all the trials andtribulations of that, I think
that sparked some adventure inme because I got to see a taste
of different culture.
So I really think that's whenthe seed was planted.
In terms of, was that when theseed was planted?
Maybe maybe it was plantedbefore then, because I used to
actually say to my I'm nevergoing to live in a house, I'm
going to live in a bush and I'mgoing to have a monkey, I'm not
going to have children, I'mgoing to do this.

(04:10):
So I don't know, maybe it wasplanted before, that it was
within me, but I think thatreally brought it out anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Wow, and you're out doing it.
And you said a older.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
So she's only 14 months older than me.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Almost Irish twins, but not quite.
Yeah, very good, okay, great.
So you got an older sisterSpeaking of your parents and
trying to save their marriage.
Did that work it?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
didn't.
No, I think it was a lasthurrah.
They tried what they could andthey parted ways, which I think
was the best thing, for one ofthem at least.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
There you go.
So why do you feel likeManchester was never home?
Is it just because you're in ahome and you want to live in a
bush with a monkey?
I mean, what was the reason?
What do you think that neverfelt like home?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I really don't know, even primary school and then
secondary school.
Once we came back from Spain, Imust have been about 12.
I was in this group of friendsand I never just it didn't feel
like I was.
I was meant to be there and Icould never put my finger on
what that was, and everyone wassaying what they wanted to do
when they were older and I justsaid I wanted to live abroad.
I didn't know where abroad was,I just wanted to be abroad.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Interesting.
Okay, so you just kind of hadit in your mind I want to live
abroad, but no real setexpectations or anything like
that.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, and I would devour, like maps.
I would love looking at maps inthe globe and looking at
different ways.
So there was always somethingin me that, like, made me want
to seek out more.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
And I love the fact you got a map behind you right
now.
You got the map of the worldbehind you.
You live in that I'm actuallyin my brother-in-law's office.
It's not even.
It's not even your map.
It's your brother-in-law.
I don't I don't.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
I'm homeless by choice at the moment, so I don't
really have a home to put a mapon the wall out on very good,
so you're.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
You're at your sisters right now.
Nieces, nephews, you gotanything like that?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
yeah, I've got two nephews.
They're awesome.
I've just told them to be quietso they're not like passing by,
and they're 14 and 8.
They're fantastic.
I like I love taking the littleone out to the woods and we
make fires and try and have likemini adventures as well, which
is quite cool.
The older one I'm not.
I'm not cool anymore.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
He's 14, so I've accepted that you're not the
cool aunt anymore, huh I used tobe not anymore not anymore.
Nice, well, that's great.
It's great to get to know you alittle bit and who you are.
Something I read about, justkind of looking doing my little
research on you and lookingthrough your bio a little bit.
It says you went to theuniversity and it sounds like in
your 20s you were that's kindof where you did a lot of

(06:38):
adventurous things.
What are some of those thingsyou did kind of what?
What did you do in yourtwenties?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, I think I actually start.
Yeah, it's probably started.
I went to.
I studied tourism.
I didn't know what I wanted todo, like no one in my family had
been to university so but I Ididn't want to start work.
I was like I don't want to, Idon't want a job.
Like how can I get away withnot working?
I know I'll study.
So I did a tourism degreebecause I'm like, well, I like
to travel, so I'll do that, andit's what they call a Mickey

(07:06):
Mouse degree, so I've heard.
So it was a really bit of a copout of just doing something.
And as part of that you did aplacement year, so like a
sandwich course.
So what do you guys call itover there?

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Like study abroad or something.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, kind of Like it was internships.
Internship okay, yeah, exactly,and one of them it's not related
to tourism at all.
One of them was actually in acountry club in Boca Raton in
Florida, which was superinteresting and gave me an
insight into the world Notnecessarily the good side, but
yeah, it gave me an insight into.

(07:42):
Wow, that was the first timeI'd been to America as an adult
and I was like Americans areawful, Because all I had was
this perception of this tiny onecountry club in this tiny part
of one particular part ofFlorida and I thought the whole
of the USA was like that.
So I think it was actually goodfor me because it gave me that
perception.
So I actually traveled more.
I met more Americans fromdifferent parts of the world not

(08:04):
from that country club and I'mlike, oh no, that was just that
one place.
Okay, I've assumed everyone wasthe same as this.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Okay, I got to ask about this because this is
interesting.
Were they just like stuffyAmericans, like what was it
about it?
Was it just that wholeperception it was?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
too much money, not enough intelligence and too much
ignorance Like these people.
People you think they had allof this money.
They paid you know a hundred,tens of thousand for this
country club, but they had noperception of the world outside
their own like bubble and it was.
It was really sad you'd havethem clicking at you from the
like for the table or, like someof the questions they asked.

(08:42):
They're like oh you're, you'refrom south africa, so you have
like lions in your backyard andyou have like this and I'm like
huh, these like I'm 20 years oldand I feel like I know more
than these 80 year old people.
It was interesting wow, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
So as a yes, a young 20 year old, you go to this, you
participate in this and you'rethinking are these americans?

Speaker 2 (09:04):
obviously no, no offense, man.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
That was me understanding the world that,
but that's kind of the way it is, I feel.
When people aren't adventurousand when they're not out doing
things, I kind of feel like youkind of get enclosed in that
sphere a little bit and notseeing that yeah, exactly, um,
but it was.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
It was interesting because we got to I I was
supposed to do that six monthsand after three months I I'm
like screw this, I can't do thisanymore.
I cannot, I just cannot do it.
It was just not a nice place.
So I quit just before NewYear's Eve and decided to go to
New York and watch the ball dropfor New Year's Eve.
I didn't have any accommodationbooked.
I'm like I'm just going to gothere for the day and come back

(09:40):
late.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
So it was well worth it.
Wow, and that's beingadventurous itself.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
We managed to get like I went on my own, which was
really naive really, to go onmy own as a 20-year-old in New
York City New Year's Eve and Iended up on the subway and there
was a Mexican girl asking fordirections at the same time and
we both looked at each otherlike should we buddy up?
We're like, yeah, we don't knoweach other, but let's do that.
And we somehow managed to blagour way and this was like 9 pm.
We were trying to get toCentral, to Times Square, not

(10:10):
realizing people had beenqueuing for hours to get to the
point.
So we were like we don't wantto queue, how can we get to the
center?
So we put on our feminine charm.
She spoke Spanish to the, tothe um, to the spanish-speaking
cops.
I put on my best british accentand we somehow managed to blag
that we'd lost our friend.
She didn't have her phone andcould you escort us to the, to

(10:35):
the bar that they were in.
So we got police escort rightto the center where the ball
dropped in town square wow, okay, and I could see.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I could see the rebellion in you, the little.
That's what's funny that thename of your company is remote
rebellion, because, yeah,there's a little rebel in you
right there.
She's like I'm gonna wait andmake you wow, and just taking
off on your own.
At 20 years old, do you?
Did you always kind of havethat confidence to do that sort
of thing?

Speaker 2 (11:01):
yeah, I, I did, and I think my mom probably instilled
me in this.
If like the well, if you wantto do that sort of thing yeah, I
did, and I think my momprobably instilled me in this.
It was like the well, if youwant to do something, do it.
Like what's stopping you andinstead of thinking of hurdles
or challenges or this, it's likewell, you just figure it out.
I think I've got it in me notto have much fear, which is not

(11:21):
always a good thing, but it'sserved me well touch wood so far
.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
That's amazing and that's why I love doing this
podcast.
I talk to people like you.
The confidence and a lot ofpeople have had to build up to
that confidence.
It's amazing that you have thatconfidence, because I feel like
that's something I lack alittle bit.
I kind of have that fear ofgetting going, and so when I
hear other people talk andthey're confident and they just
do things, and to just see howit helps them, it's huge.
It's huge for me.
So I appreciate that.

(11:47):
That's great to hear.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Thank you.
Why do you think you have thatfear then?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I think I'm just a little bit risk averse, I think.
I think I'm a little bit morelike let's stick with kind of
the status quo, and you knowthat that sort of thing.
And I think and I know muchsimilar to your story.
I know we're going to talkabout that here in a minute, but
you know, with the wholepandemic and kind of what
happened there, I think that'shelped me blossom out of that.
It helped me start this podcast, which I would have never done

(12:11):
prior to that, things like that.
So I yeah, I think it's justit's something I've kind of
always struggled with.
I think it's gotten better andI think doing this podcast has
really helped because I'vetalked to people who have
encouraged me to do things.
So I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's super cool.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
But I think the world needs both.
The world needs the reckless,the world needs the people who
are more risk averse, like,otherwise we'd be in chaos, yeah
for sure.
Or never leave the house.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Exactly yeah, and I got to find that happy.
You know, I don't want to bestuck at home.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, exactly them.
Yeah, exactly.
All right, when did you takethis solo cycling trip from
montenegro to france?
I must have been age 20.
No, I would have been about 30,about 29, 30, so I actually
that there's a bit of a rewindto this cycle story.
So I was looking into cyclingthe world at one stage, like I
don't do things by halves, asyou can tell, I'm like I I'm not

(13:08):
going to just like run a 5k,I'm going to go learn how to run
a marathon, I'm going to dothis and do things extreme.
I was talking to.
I was, I was in a relationshipthis lovely guy called Steve um,
living in London.
I remember meeting two friendsof a friend of mine and I said,
oh, what do you guys do for work?
And she said, oh, we're notworking right now.
I was like, oh, what are youdoing?

(13:28):
She's like we're cycling aroundthe world and I'm like I want
to do that.
And I was like immediately,like I'd only just been cycling
like to and from London, justbecause I couldn't afford the
tube, because I was being paidpittance in this travel job, so
I just cycled out of necessity.
I hadn't ever thought aboutlike cycling as a hobby, it was
just a transport, a mode oftransport.
I was like, oh my God, thatsounds amazing.
And there was something withinme it was like I need to do that

(13:50):
, and I don't know why.
Like I said, I wasn't intocycling and I wasn't
particularly fit either.
I was pretty unfit at that age.
So this would have been when Iwas yeah, maybe 25, 26.
That idea just stuck in my head.
I was like, okay, how do I findthe money to do this?
I need to go and find a way toto find some money to go in this
round the world cycle.
I started researching, goingthrough Iran and then through

(14:10):
South Africa to Cape Town, anddoing all of this research like
devouring maps again, which iswhat I love.
Poor Steve had to get the cutbecause he was like holding me
back from my dreams, just such alovely guy and I decided I was
going to go and work on a luxuryyacht because apparently they
paid really well and you didn'tget taxed.
So, okay, that's what I'm goingto do.

(14:31):
So I had to do a course tolearn how to do fire, rescue and
all of this, to work on luxuryyachts.
I was like, okay, I'm free, I'msingle, I'm going to save this
money this is my plan and thenI'm going to cycle around the
world.
That didn't happen becausewithin a few weeks of me being
on this yacht that I got a jobon, I was not very well cut out

(14:51):
for it.
I don't like rules very muchand I don't like it when people
are particular and there's sucha thing as boat clean, which I
didn't realize was a thing,where you have to clean
something within an inch of itslife with like a toothpick and
like a toothbrush and getting inall the cracks.
And I'm like I got reprimandedor, um, I got told off for
having a fingerprint on a tvscreen and and this woman

(15:13):
telling me how it's going toruin someone's experience, and
I'm like, nope, I can't do this.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I can't, I can't cope with this it's like a flashback
back to Boca Raton.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I know, she was American too.
He was Aussie though.
So I think I was getting tothis point of like I can't do
this.
And I went on a date that night.
I'd met someone in a bar acouple of nights earlier and we
decided to go on the date.
The captain was like okay, I'llcome and pick you up on the
tender and the small boat atthis time, meet me at the port

(15:46):
at this time.
So okay, so I'm on this day andthis date was going the best it
could have done.
And he, the captain, startedcalling me and I was like I'm
just gonna ignore that and justcarry on with this day.
The next day, I slept on thebeach that night.
Nothing happened.
It was, it was all.
It was all very above board,pardon the pun, and I was.

(16:06):
I was sleeping on the beach.
I woke up and I was like okay,I need to need to face the
reality now.
I got back on the boat and thecaptain's like get your stuff,
your kicks, off.
So I was like, oh, that was myaccommodation as well as my job.
So I rang the guy who I was ona date with from the night
before and I was like hey, I, Iknow we only met a couple of
nights ago but I don't haveanywhere to stay.

(16:27):
Can I go and stay with you?
And he was staying at hisparents at that time and I ended
up staying with him and weplanned the rest of our lives
together and ended up gettingengaged, moved to London and my
whole plans of cycling aroundthe world kind of dwindled into
a smaller trip.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Wow, okay, wow, that's a great story.
Okay, thank you Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, that's the much more condensed version.
You'd be here all day if I gaveyou the longer version.
But I just realized he was verymuch in the finance world.
He was more about materialthings than I was at that time
and he was more about the late20s.
This is what you do you get amortgage, you get married, you
do these things and I got kindof drawn into that world.

(17:15):
Even though it wasn't reallymine, I let myself get drawn in.
I can't blame him for that.
And then this cycle trip wentfrom being around the world
three year cycle to six weeksfor Europe.
So it changed quite a lot and Iwas happy about it at the time.
I got a job in recruitment, gota proper job, you know, away
from travel, and I was doing thethings that you're supposed to
do getting engaged, saving for amortgage, doing all of that

(17:38):
stuff.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
So were you engaged when you did this solo trip then
.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yes, he was supposed to come with me.
He was supposed to do some ofit then a week or two, then a
weekend, and then he didn't endup coming at all, which was a
real shame.
But I met a couple of people onthe way, but it was mostly
quite lonely.
Actually it was five, six weekswhere I was talking to the bike
some of the time because I wasjust going a bit mad and you

(18:08):
know, when you're just having ahard day and you don't have
anyone to sort of like moan withor like even blame when they
went the wrong direction, it'sonly you.
You got yourself to blame.
So it was quite a tough five orsix weeks.
Even though it was.
It was so much adventure and Ihad so many experiences.
It would have been better to beto do with someone else gotcha
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
So, besides the loneliness, what other
challenges did you face on thisfive, six week bike trip?

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Well, I'd done no training, which I don't
necessarily think you need to ifyou're going at your own pace.
I'd done little research intothe countries that I was
traveling through in terms ofthe temperature, like I went
around April didn't realize howcold it would be.
So the kit I'd bought thatobviously hadn't done so much
research into wasn't quite setup, or my sleeping bag wasn't
quite set up for camping and Iwas like, yeah, I'll just, I'll

(18:52):
just wild camp, I'll just pitchup at the side of the road and
I'll do this.
I'm a little bit idealisticsometimes.
And then in Bosnia, for example, there were signs for landmines
.
I was like, okay, okay, I can'twild camp there, so that's not
going to happen.
I did a bike maintenance coursebefore I left, but I just it.
My brain isn't wired for thatkind of.

(19:12):
I'd done three bike maintenancecourses over the course of a
few years and none of it stayedin.
So I had a few issues like flattires.
I can't even repair a puncture.
I ashamed to say, um, I mean Iprobably could.
It would take me about threehours.
So I had some puncture repair.
The kit wasn't, was reallyheavy.
I didn't realize howmountainous it would be, and

(19:34):
until I was actually halfway upthis mountain in Montenegro at
the very start, having thisbrain wave of like Montenegro
literally means black mountain,feeling like an idiot, with like
40 kilos of like weight in mypanniers dragging it up a hill.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
You're just starting at that point.
Was that a moment?
Was that a moment where you'relike what am I doing?
Did you have that you knowmoment or two where you're like
why am I doing this?
Or were you just like nope?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
I, you know I decided I'm going to do what I'm doing
it.
I don't remember, you know it'slike it's quite a while ago now
.
I can't remember if I ever hadthat, had that thought but I
guess my ego is a little bitwould have been a bit too
bruised if I'd have, if I had tostop that trip because I sold
so many people about it.
I was raising money for charitywater, I was blogging about it,
like so there was absolutely noway that I was gonna to not do
that trip.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
It was going to happen regardless.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Besides the challenging things like you know
, the temperature and themountains and things like that,
Were there any moments on thattrip where you had any moments
of awe or wonder, just like wow.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, there's a few actually that I can think of,
like and small and large,actually like.
So there's a site called warmshowers, which sounds really
dodgy, but it's basically forcycle tourers to, to allow
people who are cycling throughto get a warm shower, to do some
washing, to spend the night,whatever it is.
So the hospitality that I gotfrom the people that were

(21:01):
letting me into their homes wasjust, it was amazing, like
people.
Oh my God, that sounds reallydodgy.
As a woman on your own, youknow you shouldn't do that, but
I got nothing but warm, energy,hospitality, people wanting to
do good and and just just justpeople's smiles as well and in
the Baltics they're not so knownfor their friendly smiles, but

(21:23):
they kind of give warmth andhospitality, but with a look
like they're gonna kill you, andso you kind of get used to it.
It's like come into my houseand eat my food.
You're like okay, like thankyou.
So it's you kind of get used tothat way of way of of going, I
guess, and just little momentswhere there was a little robin
that perched by me when I wascamping and I was having a

(21:46):
really stressful day.
I couldn't put my tent up.
It was really windy and thislittle robin kind of like stayed
with me.
And I met a guy a week or twolater in Bratislava and I was
telling him about the campsite Iwent to and I was like, oh, and
then there was this littlerobin.
He's like, that little robinwas there with me as well and he
was talking about the sameexperience.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
So those are little magical moments like that yeah,
it's those little things, Ithink, at times, that are mean
the most to us, and you only getthat through being adventurous
and doing things at times, so Ilove that.
It's fun to hear.
All right, what do you thinkthe bike trip did for you?
The cycling trip did for youoverall?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
oh, it's a good question.
It did a couple of things.
It gave me lots of thinkingtime.
It made me it made me realizehow freeing it is to just be you
on a bike getting from a to band to have some time to
actually sit like, to do somethinking about what I, who I am,
what I want, what's important,and the relationship at this

(22:45):
time I realized wasn't the rightrelationship for me.
So I was thinking about some ofthose things of like, all the
stuff I've been suppressing andkeeping down when you have busy
city life was coming up.
So I think that came up for meand it also made me realize, wow
, look at like, look at like,look at it on a map.

(23:05):
If you look at google maps andI've kept my, I've mapped, I'm
like I did that, I got fromthere to there.
That's pretty awesome.
Like, imagine what other thingsyou can do.
So like it just shows you weput these limitations on ourself
of like, oh no, oh no, it's toofar, it's too this, I don't
have that, I don't have that,rather than being like, well,
just do it.
Like what's the worst that canhappen.
So I think that it spurred moreof that to come.

(23:26):
I think.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I think this kind of leads in perfectly because at
the time you were engaged andyou kind of recruiter at that
point, or no, yes, I did, I'djust gone from working as an
agency recruiter to an in-houserecruiter.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
So I was about to yeah, I was about to start my
new role, basically as anin-house recruiter.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Okay, so you're about to start your new role as an
in-house recruiter when I gotback, yeah, when you got back,
okay, you're about to start that, so you were trying.
In other words, you were kindof doing what everyone says.
Everyone says, hey, you need togrow up at some point.
And that's kind of where youwere at in life, like, okay, you
know I'm in a relationship,even though you knew that

(24:14):
probably wasn't going to workout.
But okay, I got to get a job.
I think you enjoyed being arecruiter, kind of.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Tell me about that experience a little bit
adventurous, it's like livinglife, on my own terms.
That's what you do when you'rein your 20s.

(24:38):
You don't do that when you'rein your 30s.
You know like and this has beendrilled into me, I guess, not
just me, everyone else, I think,in society.
So no, it's not that it'santi-me, it's just this, it's a
new me and I was like convincingmyself of that, like these are
the things I should be concerned.
I remember this designer handbagthat my partner bought me for a
birthday or Christmas.
This designer bag, like itstood for so much because I

(25:01):
don't even like handbags, Idon't even like designer stuff.
And I'm looking at this handbaglike that's not me, like I'm
not a designer handbag person,like it's really not me.
I'd rather get a new bike bagor something like that.
So, yeah, I think the bike youasked me before what the bike
ride spurred as well and I thinkit reinvigorated that desire

(25:23):
for adventure and that desirefor being free and exploring and
that had been lost a little bit.
Yeah, that had been lost alittle bit over the years.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
You've used the word a couple of times.
You used the word a coupletimes.
You use the word free.
Tell me about that, becauseI've you kind of use it a little
bit when you're talking aboutyour bike trip.
And then just this idea ofbeing being free, is it the
social thing about it, likewhere you're saying, where you
feel like, oh, you got to dothis when you're in your 30s and
does that make you feel notfree?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
you're kind of tell me about free to you sound like
my therapist now have you beentalking the freedom of going
where I want, when I want, andsounds really selfish, but I've
realized how much that isimportant to me.
Yes, when you're in arelationship, you have to factor

(26:15):
in the other person.
When you have children, evenmore so, and that's actually one
of the reasons I've decided notto have children is because I
don't want to lose that about mylife and that's a really
important part of my life.
So, yeah, being free, beinglike I'm not happy in this
situation, I'm going to leavethe situation.
I'm not happy in this place,I'm going to go to another one

(26:36):
and not just running away, butactually being like, if it's
broken, fix it, like so manypeople you know want to stay in
that same place and don't wantto do anything about it, or too
scared to do something about it.
So that's what.
That's what being free is, Iguess, for me.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Keep telling me the story because I think I think it
led up to COVID and all of asudden you're working remote and
then kind of this kind of thisspurred you to start your own
company.
Yeah, if you don't mind, justkind of give me, give me the
story.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah.
So after the bike ride.
So I get I mean, there's lotsof little bits in between in
terms of like, from leavinguniversity to to starting, yeah,
to doing the bike ride likethere was loads of travel and
adventure in that time,traveling around Southeast Asia
and Australia and all.
I did a lot in that time when Istarted the mature, grown-up

(27:25):
life and didn't do that as much.
I really did miss it, and Iwasn't about just doing it for
two weeks of the year or fourweeks of the year in the
holidays.
That, like I'm greedy, I wantedmore than that.
So it was wanting that more.
So after the bike ride, I was inthis recruitment job and,
honestly, it was the best officejob I've ever had.
It was an Australian company,they were global, they had

(27:48):
offices in Singapore, they hadoffices in Melbourne, sydney,
new York, so I got to work fromthe other offices, which is one
of the reasons I took the jobthere.
I was like this is going to bethe opportunity to travel and it
did give me that, which wasawesome.
The company was great, thepeople I worked with.
I got to hire the people I'dworked with, so of course, they
were great.
So I had that, and the officewas amazing as well.

(28:09):
It was in central Londonrestaurants.
We played games.
We played Nerf gun wars in theoffice.
It was really laid back.
What's wrong with no shoes on?
We get gym membership.
It was.
I had it good.
I never try and say that, Iguess, you know, for marketing
purposes.
Sometimes I'm like, oh, my lifein the office was terrible, but
it wasn't.
But it just it wasn't for melike being confined to four

(28:33):
walls or being confined to notbeing free and you have to work
here eight hours a day, fivedays a week.
I'm like, oh no, I don't likethat.
I seized as many opportunitiesas I could.
In.
2017 is when the market wasbooming for software engineers
and that was mostly the people Iwas recruiting.
So I noticed when I was havingcalls with them, they were

(28:54):
saying oh, we want remote.
Do you have remote working?
So I would hear this quiteoften and I was saying to my
boss at the time I was like weneed to offer something more.
We're not paying the highestsalaries, we're not doing X, y,
z.
We need to offer more benefits.
These people, these developers,they're asking for this.
I must've spent about a yearnagging and pushing and saying
we need this, we need this, weeven need to up the salaries, or

(29:16):
we need to offer remote.
Of course, they don't want toup the salaries, so I managed to
get up to four days a week,hybrid, and they had to go into
the office on Fridays In 2017,this was a massive win.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
I figured okay, and then I worked on getting
flexible working hours.
So I was really and I wasn'teven in HR.
I was really and I wasn't evenin HR, I was just purely in
recruitment.
So I was kind of like reallypushing for these things for
myself as well as actually forthe, for the people, but my
ability to recruit these people.
So it was a triple whammyreally.
That was 2017 around and that's2017 was when I decided to end

(29:51):
the relationship, started goingthrough a two-year weird phase
where I was just it's my lostyears, I call them.
I was just doing things, justbecause I could.
So I was using this free, youknow, and just trying everything
, doing everything.
And I went back to traveling.
I traveled around Peru andBolivia and I managed to

(30:12):
convince my boss.
I said, hey, I, the businessisn't doing so well, I could see
that they've made redundancies,they were making layoffs and I
was how can I keep my job?
And still, you know, get, getwhat I need out of it.
So I proposed how about I worktwo days a week?
You just pay me for two days,but you let me work from Peru
and Bolivia for the next sixweeks?

(30:32):
And I and I got to like havethose days off, so I got, I got
the yes on that, which was good.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, it's a good way of like optimizing that
situation and save them somemoney as well, and they could
keep me.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, and they're paying you less than half of
what you know for a week.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
And people always ask like oh, how did you get?
Oh, you're so lucky, how didyou get to that One?
You just need to ask.
But before that you need to begood at what you do.
If you're a half ass employee,they're not going to make that,
they're not going to makeallowances for you.
You need to be good at what youdo and you need to work hard.
And I'd not say I worked 5060hours a week.
I didn't, and I was just goodat what I did and I cared and I

(31:13):
knew how to make an impressionon the company.
So that I was I wouldn't say Iwas indispensable, because I
think most people employees areindispensable, but I'd be hard
to lose or it'd be tough to loseme because they'd have to find
a replacement.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
You're a good recruiter.
Yes, exactly, yeah, exactly.
You're doing your job andyou're doing it well.
I think that's who you are.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Exactly so.
I think that that was important.
So that was kind of the startof, oh, this remote working
thing, this is, this isinteresting, I can, I can work
from Peru, I can work fromBolivia, and.
And then they sent me toSingapore for two months to
recruit a team out in Vietnamthere, which was amazing.
So I started having all theselittle tastes of, oh, I can have

(31:54):
both.
I can travel and I can get.
I can do a good job, doing thejob that I'm really good at and
I like, and it pays well.
This is like they tell you youcan't have it all.
I'm doing all of this.
So, yeah, that was.
That was a light bulb momentfor me.
I bought a motorhome, I boughtan RV.
I decided to rent out myapartment in London and live in

(32:15):
this RV for six months.
Then the winter came.
That wasn't the best idea.
Like I said, the 20s 28, 2017to 2019 was like the lost years,
but in a good way.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
You've got to do some great adventures in those lost
years, so to speak.
You have to go to.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Bolivia.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
In fact, I think I saw a picture on Instagram.
I think you did.
You ride the death road inBolivia.
I think I saw a picture onInstagram.
I think you did you ride thedeath road in Bolivia.
I think I saw that.
So, yeah, you did some funthings.
So I had a guest way back whenwho talked about the death road.
So I'm like, oh, it was so muchfun.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
And actually someone I met on that trip in Bolivia
was kind of the reason that tookme to Bali in the end Around 20
, was it 2020?
Pandemic happened.
Everyone.
The reason that took me to Baliin the end Around 2020,
pandemic happened.
Everyone was locked downTowards the end of 2019 and sort

(33:09):
of like early 2020, I was in areally low place.
I think I was finally with thistime to think I was finally
mourning the death of therelationship and of what was to
be, and I was dealing with allthe stuff that I'd kept down for
so many years and it was allcoming up.
So I just I was feeling really,really low.
We were in lockdown.
I was miserable.
I'd moved into a co-livingspace in London, even though I
had an apartment and a campervan, because I realized I was.

(33:32):
I was well.
I didn't realize then, butafterwards I was lonely.
I didn't have a communityaround me.
All of my friends were movingout, getting married, having
kids, and I wasn't in that space.
I didn't want to be in thatspace.
So, moving into this co-living,I realized how lonely I
actually was.
The friend that I shout out to,alvin, the friend I met in
Bolivia, he called me and he wasin Bali and I was like, oh my

(33:53):
God, what's it like there?
And he's like it's my happyplace.
And I remember the moment.
I remember exactly where I was.
I looked out the window likewistfully, like in a movie, and
I looked up into the distanceand I'm like happy place,
where's my happy place?
And I was just like thinkingabout it.
I'm like my happy place is inthe ocean.
My happy place is surfing.
I did a surf camp a year beforein the north of Spain.

(34:16):
It was surfing, it's being inwater, it's snorkeling, it's
diving.
I did a lot of that inSoutheast Asia.
I'm like that's when I've metmy most at peace and I'm our
happiest.
And this was March 2020.
We couldn't move anywhere.
We're locked down.
We definitely couldn't leavethe country, let alone move

(34:37):
within the country.
So I broke the rules leave thecountry, let alone move within
the country.
So I broke the rules.
I jumped into my rv and Iheaded down the motorway down to
the south coast, where there'ssurf in the uk, although it's
cold, but yeah okay.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I was gonna say at first I'm like, wait, you, you
can't drive to bali, okay, butyou still.
You still wanted to get by thecoast, even though still cold or
whatever.
But you, you're like in yourmind, you're like, okay, my
happy place is the, the coast,even though it's still cold or
whatever.
But in your mind you're like,okay, my happy place is the
water, it's the ocean, it's thewater.
I got this Arfi, I'm going togo.
Even though it's in Englandit's a little cold this time of

(35:06):
year, I'm going to the ocean.
Perfect, I love it.
Keep going.
This is great.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
And then there was no one on the road.
Have you ever watched that film?
28 days later, and there's likenobody on the road.
It was like.
It was like that and the policestopped me halfway and they're
like what the hell are you doing?
You know there's a lockdown.
You know there's a globallockdown right now.
What are you doing?
I was like and I had a story inmy in like that I was going to
make up, if I'm honest, of why Ihad to move house.

(35:32):
But luckily I didn't have touse that fake story.
So I was like I had to move.
I've got somewhere that I'mmoving to.
You can have a look in the back.
I've got all my boxes.
If you don't believe me, I hadto move this day.
So he did.
He had a look around the backand he's checking and he's like
you don't have much stuff.
And I'm like I'm minimalist.
And he looked at on my way andI was like okay, phew.

(36:04):
So I got to my destination inCornwall in Newquay, moved into
this house share with these twoguys and this one girl.
One of the girls was actuallyone of the women.
She was one of the Beth.
She's one of the reasons shegot me through lockdown Her, the
coast and a podcast called theHappiness Lab by Laurie Santosos
.
Those three things got methrough lockdown, honestly, like
it was like being able to walkalong the beach watching the
sunsets her and this podcastyeah they, they saved me, I

(36:28):
think isn't that amazing too,because you didn't have that set
in your mind.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
I mean, you didn't know you're gonna meet this lady
and you didn't know you'regonna this podcast would have an
effect on you, or whatever.
I love, I love hearing thosestories because it's amazing how
that works.
So how did you get to ballythen?
How did that?
How did that all work out?

Speaker 2 (36:44):
well, everything was all fine and dandy and lovely.
We couldn't move anywhere, wehad to deal with a lockdown, and
the winter came in the uk andthe coast suddenly didn't seem
so great anymore and I was likeoh, it's too cold here.
So it was December 2020 andthere was a fear, a threat of
another lockdown happening inthe UK.
I'm not doing this again.
So I hell-tailed off toPortugal, where it was still

(37:06):
kind of open, and we drove allthe way like through, uh,
through Spain and throughPortugal with um, a guy I was
seeing at the time.
That was a make or break tripfor us and it was a break for
sure.
Um, he drove me mad, so weended up coming back, had to
come back for a funeral, sadly,uh, in the February 21 I got
back and I'm like I did.

(37:28):
My friend's voice of Bali stayedin my head.
I was like, okay, maybe I couldsee, I could look into that,
let's, let's, let's have a lookinto that.
So I started applying for thevisa and it was still a little
bit hairy.
Right, this was like march 2021.
I found a way with any kind ofthird world country, if you know
the right person, you payenough money, you can get a visa
, so.
So I figured out and I got avisa for bali and landed april

(37:53):
2021 and my idea was I'm still.
Luckily, I still have my job.
I was really fortunate to keepmy job that's what I was going
to ask you.
If you're still, you're still arecruiter, you're still working
for the same company, good, andhonestly, I'm so grateful that I
had that job as well, cause Ithink, having that that purpose
in the day, even though weweren't actively recruiting,
they kept me on.
So I was doing stuff, I wascontacting people still, I was
contacting people still.

(38:14):
I was doing whatever I could.
I kept that job.
I was really fortunate to keepit.
I just said to my boss I waslike, hey, I need to go here.
Whenever the office opens up inLondon again, let me know and
I'll come back.
And that was my intention.
My intention was to go for maybetwo months, push my luck and
then go back to the real world.
I was there and had.

(38:34):
Everything just seemed't seemto click into place.
People, the way people werethinking there, the people who
have moved there and changedtheir lives they no longer, like
the people back home seem to bereally hurdles based rather
than overcoming the hurdles,whereas there I was like well,
why don't you just stay here?
I'm like I can't live here.
What do you mean?
Live here like I've got my workand I've got this.
They're like quit, oh quit.

(38:55):
I'm like why are you sayingthings like it's so simple?
And they're like so I was likeno, I can't do that.
So then my boss was like right,the office is opening, you need
to come back now.
This is around July 21st.
And I thought, no, why do I haveto come back?
Like, we've been workingremotely for the past 18 months.
I've been working, well, it'sbeen, you know, I've been
working to the hours.

(39:15):
I've been doing this.
What's the reason?
And well, it's a company policy.
And I'm like that's not areason.
That's like your parents sayingbecause I told you so I'm not a
kid and I never dealt with itthat well then either.
So I said, okay, I quit.
Then.
So I quit.
And I thought, shit, I've got amortgage to pay.

(39:42):
I need to actually find somework.
And I struggled to find work.
I realized it wasn't as easy asfinding work in London.
Finding remote work was a wholedifferent ballgame, especially
being in Bali.
They just couldn't compute thatyou were working from somewhere
, in a different time zone orwhatever, even after everything
that happened.
So I was like, oh, if it's thisdifficult, I'm good at what I
do, I've got a good network.
It was a really good time forrecruitment.

(40:02):
Other people are going to bestruggling with this as well,
and that's when the light bulbmoment came off of like I could
help people.
So I got two freelance roles atboth of them recruiting for
remote first companies, and Istarted like doing loads of
research into remote firstcompanies how to, how to access
them, the job boards and Istarted gathering all this

(40:22):
information.
Someone said to me oh you, youcould, you could coach people on
how to do the same as you.
And I'm like I'm not a coach.
And they're like oh, you could,and everyone's a coach.
In Bali, if you've ever been,everyone's a life coach.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Um, so like yeah, you can do this.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
I'm like, okay.
So yeah, that was, and that wasfour years ago.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Wow, okay, wow, amazing.
Yeah, your whole story is justjust amazing.
That light bulb moment when yousaid I quit what kind of fear,
if any, did you have have?
Or was it so strong that desireto not go back to the office
that you overcame that?
Because that's, I mean, that'sstill a little like you said.
It was your, your comfort zone.
It was kind of like your, youknow your purpose there was

(41:00):
definitely a bit of fear in it.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
But I say if I had to say the, you know the, the
split it would be 60.
Determination of, just like Idon't see another way.
Maybe, maybe 20% fear and theother 20% I'll figure it out.
I don't know if that splitsright, but you get one.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
When people tell you that you know especially now,
because now you're coachingthese people and helping people
when they say they feel stuck.
You know, I can't seem to findsomething.
I feel stuck.
What kind of mind shift didthey need to have, like you know
, I can't seem to find something.
I feel stuck.
What kind of mind shift didthey need to have, like, what
kind of shift did they need tohave in their mindset in order
to to not feel stuck?
Would you say?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think one of the biggest things that really
helped me was what is the worstthat can happen.
What is the absolute worst?
I went through this myself andI and I went through the.
What is the worst that canhappen is if I quit my job, I
don't get another job for sixmonths, 12 months.
I lose my house in London, likemy house gets taken away from

(41:59):
me.
I moved back in with my sisterin my nephew's games room, which
I'm staying at the moment.
I have food on the table.
I have family around that, loveme.
That's my worst case.
My worst case is living withloved ones with food on the
table.
I have family around that, loveme.
That's my worst case.
My worst case is living withloved ones with food on the
table.
That I'm doing pretty well andthis is what like was the thing
that I had.

(42:20):
That.
That's my worst case scenario.
Like that's not bad at all, andI say that with people as well.
What is your worst case?
Are you going to be homeless?
Are you going to be homeless?
Are you going to be withoutfood?
Are you going to be sick?
Or is this chance and the fireup your butt what you need to go
into something?

Speaker 1 (42:36):
just thinking about that, my own life of things that
then you're like you know youcan be my therapist too.
Yeah, that's perfect.
Help each other.
Yeah, exactly.
It's interesting too with thewhole remote work thing, and
I've talked to a couple of folkswho who work remote, and I
think one of them actually wasin, was buying a place in bally
or something, because he wasworking remote, yeah, and, and

(42:58):
it's just it's.
It's interesting concept to mebeing and really I remember when
I was first told, hey, you know, once or twice a week you can
start working from home, kind ofthis hybrid method, and that
was then the pandemic hit andalso it's like we can all just
work remote, I mean, no one hasto work in an office, is really
what it came down to.
What are your experiences assomeone who's recruiting in this

(43:20):
and kind of helping people tryto find fully remote things?
Because I think a lot of themlike you said, your company was
a good example of this they'reoffering hybrid, but that's not
the same as fully remote.
Remote and you got people whowant to live in bali and
portugal and places like thatwho need fully remote.
What are your thoughts on that?
You think, because I've seentoo in the news a lot of people

(43:42):
saying, hey, people are goingback.
You know they're making peoplego back to the office.
What do you say about that?
How do you?
How do you navigate that?

Speaker 2 (43:50):
without swearing too much.
The whole, like the wholereturn to office thing really
pisses me off, because there'sone thing to have your on-site,
your hybrid, your remote,whatever it's your company, you
do what you want.
But to to bring people anduproot people whose lives have
changed because of the contractthat they signed, that they

(44:10):
wanted to sign, and be remoteand to have that taken away is
disgusting, like it really is.
If you want to be a hybrid oran onsite company, fine, but to
take that away from peoplewithout any the fact there's no
legal repercussions for that, Ijust think is crazy.
It's absolutely crazy.
I personally don't think hybridworks.
The model which I think suitsmost people is actually remote

(44:34):
first.
So you said fully remote there,so I just want to use the
terminology remote first.
That is generally where acompany has a office or access
to an office, but it's remotefirst.
So maybe they will get peopletogether once every quarter, for
example, and everyone getstogether in the same room.
I believe that is the bestmodel for everyone, because what

(44:57):
that does?
It gives people who like theoffice and like the office
environment the option to gothere, but the people who don't
don't, and you still geteveryone together at the same
time.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
That makes sense and I'm glad you kind of
distinguished that between fullyremote versus remote first,
remote first.
I like that it's still have aplace that you could use if you
need to.
Maybe we meet once a quarterand have a team meeting or
whatever, yeah, in the actualoffice, but then but you're
remote first, it's a.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
It's a good way to look at it but you know, the
funny thing is now like is thatof this whole like circular
globe that we live in, I guess?
So the founder of the companythat I quit to start Remote
Rebellion?
We'd never met before, but whenI went to Bali I heard that he
lived there and I went to go andchat with him and we got on
like a house on fire.
But we butted heads on theremote work thing.

(45:44):
He'd sold the company before Ieven started or something like
that anyway.
But like, we got on really well.
He believes people need to betogether to build a business and
I just don't believe that.
And we're at loggerheads, but Imust admit we're both seeing
each other's point of view aswe're swapping over a little bit
.
He's like oh, maybe you don'tall need to be in the same room

(46:06):
all the time.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
And I'm now saying hey, maybe you do need to get
together now and again.
That is also important, sowe're seeing each other's
perspectives a little bit.
So for you who's in this andyou're helping people, is there
a certain I don't know if thisis the right word or not type of
job.
Or I mean your tech is it?
I don't know.
Education, I don't know.

(46:28):
What are the jobs out therethat are remote, I guess, is
what I'm asking.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Most jobs that can be done on a laptop, any job that
can be done on a laptop can bedone remote.
So people think of softwareengineers or they think of
content creators or copywritersand things like that.
Most jobs can actually be doneremotely, most jobs that you
would go to an office for.
Let's say, I even helped aremote nurse get a remote
nursing job, so jobs that youwould go to an office for.
Let's say, I even helped aremote nurse get a remote

(46:52):
nursing job.
So jobs that you wouldn't eventhink that existed.
So the main limitation isyourself.
I would say to somebody else,it's not that you don't have a
degree, that you don't have theexperience, that you've never
worked remotely before, butthey're not limiting you.
Then they make it harder.
The only thing that's limitingyou is your belief and your
determination to do it.

(47:13):
And I know that sounds a bitlike you know woo, woo, but it's
true.
I've helped a 21 year oldgraduate of no experience and
I've helped a 68 year old whowas being told that he was too
old to get remote work.
Neither of them were in thetech space, neither of them were
in typically very you know,common remote roles, but they

(47:36):
figured it out because they saidI'm doing this and that's the
difference.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Let's talk about this company then.
Remote Rebellion, first of all.
I love the name.
It's a great name.
Especially after talking to you, I'm like I see this rebellious
side of you which makes totalsense.
So the idea behind it is tohelp people get remote jobs and
you're there to kind of coachalong and help.
That kind of yeah kind of givesthe little spiel on remote
rebellion, if you don't mind.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yeah, exactly so.
It's for people who have eitherworked remotely before or have
not, who want to get remote workand not just any old remote job
, but something that aligns withtheir values and fits around
their life.
It could be that someone iswanting to change careers, or
they want to change industries,or they just simply want to get

(48:20):
their next job.
They know exactly what theywant to do and they want help
finding that.
A lot of people ask me well,why do I need to pay you to do
that?
I can just go and do thatmyself.
Yes, you could, but the marketis so competitive right now that
it's a lot harder.
So, for every, for every.
The last time I looked at this,there was 8% of jobs on LinkedIn

(48:42):
that were remote and over 43%of all applications go to that
8%, go to that 8%.
So the supply and demand rightnow is really, really tricky.
So one of the best ways to geta remote job or to see the
opportunities is by gettingintroductions, by networking and
really knowing how to get aheadof the competition so that your
application gets noticed.

(49:03):
People come to me, a lot ofpeople in their 40s, a lot of
people in their 50s, and they'relike I never had a problem
getting a job before I justapply, or someone would
introduce me and I just get inand that was it.
And it's not the same anymore,just because it is so much more
competitive.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Do you think?
I mean, it sounds like to meyour whole recruiting experience
has definitely helped with this, with your connections with
everything else.
Like you said, you're good atyour job, so I think that shows
as well what kind of any kind ofyou mentioned a 21-year-old,
you mentioned a 60-year-old anykind of examples you don't have
to give names or anything butany kind of examples of a

(49:39):
success story or two that wecould hear from remote
rebellions?

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, there's loads.
One person actually thatsprings to mind.
I won't mention her name, butshe was actually looking for.
She wanted to be a digitalnomad, she wanted to work from
anywhere job and she'd beensearching for six years.
So she did a bit of teachingenglish.
She did a bit of this andnothing really stuck.
And once we started workingtogether we.
One of the ways that peopledon't realize is they get so

(50:04):
tunnel vision into their ownexperience.
It's obvious to them what theircv shows, what their linkedin
profile shows.
But you come in on as anoutsider and you say I don't
even understand what you do.
And you're like what do youmean?
And I'm giving you six seconds,which is what the average
recruiter gives on your profile.
I'm going to scan that and belike Jake.
No, no, don't have a clue whatyou do next.
And you're not Jake, you'rejust a name on a screen and it

(50:26):
sounds really brutal to say that.
But unless you know somebody,your name a on screen and if you
don't, let me show me in sixseconds how you're going to help
me with my problem.
You're gone and I'm going to goto the other 500 people.
I give a bit of brutal love andshowing people like this is how
people view your profile.
This is.
It might be someone spends fiveminutes on it, but the average

(50:48):
person is what you're going for,will be looking, be looking at
it this way.
You need to make it obvious tothem.
We looked at that and I helpedher understand how someone would
look at her profile.
We worked on her LinkedIn, onher resume, on her video
applications as well, and how tostand out, and within was it
four weeks?
No, sorry, six, seven weeks.

(51:08):
She got a remote job and nowshe's working from spain and
she's not having to be in the ukanymore, so she's pretty happy
wow, that's amazing, I didn'trealize the whole.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, six seconds, that's all it takes, and you're
moving on.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Nope, don't know nope , nope yeah wow, it's just a
little bit longer than theaverage.
Tinder swipe apparently thesame thing with.
I compare dating with uhrecruitment quite often wow,
that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
And you've got a team right.
You got a team of people thatwork with you yes, I've got an
amazing team.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Honestly, that one of the best things I did very
early on in the first six monthswas hiring a va, even though I
couldn't necessarily afford tohire a va, and she was actually
one of my rebels like oh, Idon't like the word clients, but
like she was one of my rebels,I was like you're great.
And this is the thing with a lotof the people I work with.
They don't look so great onpaper, they would probably not
get past my swipe, but when youspeak to them you know they're

(52:02):
just great at what they do andthey've done a bit of
communications, they've done abit of sales and they look job,
hoppy, or they look like theydon't know what they want, but
really they're just multifacetedand they, they, they can pick
things up really quickly, but ona paper, on a screen, it looks
jumpy or it looks like you can'tpiece it together, you can't
put them in a box.
And this is the biggestchallenge in in the people I

(52:24):
work with.
And she was just great.
She did way more than she wassupposed to.
She's really set my business upfrom there and I've just had
great people fall in my lap.
The universe has brought greatpeople to me, so shout out to my
team because they are the best.
I wouldn't be able to do thisnow if it wasn't for them, so
I've got a team of seven rightnow and they are just the best.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
That's awesome and they're all remote right.
Of course I didn't know that'sawesome and they're all remote
right of course they're all inthe office here.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I did an april fools actually and I I went a bit too
realistic because I I went full,I lost followers and everything
on on.
Uh, because of this I did.
It was like we're rebranding tohybrid hydration.
I thought that people wouldhave got it with the logo was
like two white fat men around awater cooler, like hugging the
water cooler.
I thought they would haveunderstood it.
But, um, yeah, no, I've got theteam together like we got.

(53:23):
I was in Bulgaria a few monthsback.
Everyone who was based inEurope.
I flew them out and we had mostof the team there and it was so
nice getting everyone together.
It really like we got so muchout of it.
So I would love to do thatevery year and it really it does
make a difference gettingeveryone together.
You just don't need to do itevery bloody day or every month.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, exactly, I love that, If you don't mind.
Kind of where.
Yeah, where are where's yourteam?
Where are they all scatteredaround the world?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Brazil, Argentina, Bali, Bulgaria, Italy, South
Africa who else have I missedVietnam?

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Wow, you're a global company, I love it.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, it's really, and I'll be heading to Mexico in
a couple of months as well, sowe'll be working on a few
different time zones.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yeah, no, I love it.
This has been awesome, Michelle.
This has been great hearing whoyou are, your story, what
you've done, and I and I lovethe fact that you're living your
dream.
You had that little spark andyou're outliving it, making it
happen.
I wish you nothing but success.
Before we wrap up, I do want toask you a question.
It's a question I like to askeverybody.
I want to know for you whatdoes adventure mean to you?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Oh, never thought about this.
It's a good question.
Adventure means to me breakingout of your comfort zone and out
of your daily routine or weeklyor monthly routine and trying
something a little new and maybea little scary.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Something a little new, something a little scary,
getting out of your comfort zoneLove it.
I hear that a lot.
I love it.
That's exactly what I.
I agree, that's exactly what Ibelieve adventure is.
Michelle, thank you so much forcoming on.
Journey with Jake.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
What an inspiring conversation with Michelle
Colson.
From her solo bike ride throughEurope to building a community
through remote rebellion,michelle shows us that adventure
and freedom come in many forms.
Thank you, michelle.
If you want to learn more ortake steps towards your own
remote lifestyle, be sure tovisit remoterebellioncom and
give Michelle a follow onInstagram at remote underscore

(55:25):
rebellion.
Thanks so much for listening toJourney with Jake.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a friend or
leave a rating and review.
It truly helps others discoverthese stories.
I've got another great episodecoming your way next week, so
stay tuned and, as always,remember it's not always about
the destination as it is aboutthe journey.
Take care everybody, thank you.