March 26, 2025 • 18 mins
When you're feeling in a rut or in a bad mood, do you tend to focus on eliminating negative emotions or inviting more positive ones in? If you swing toward the negative, well then welcome to the club! This is a common approach. The problem is that it misses half the picture and doesn't support our resilience. We'll talk about the challenges of letting in positive experiences and the psychological effects that can hinder this, such as avoidance of positivity and the contrast effect. What's the solution to this? Well, it's actually much of the work we do here at Joy Lab. Stay with us for each episode and join the Joy Lab program to build this skill of letting in more of the good.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!
Sources and Notes:
- Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment with morejoy, combine this podcast with the full
Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach.
(00:27):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmonsand welcome to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So we are in our month ofEquanimity, or balance is another
word we've been using this month.
And today we're talking aboutsomething that can keep us stuck
in maybe an unbalanced statethat might be hard to realize.
(00:48):
And so I'm gonna explain itwith a question for us to
all kind of think through.
So when it comes to feeling in a rut orin a bad mood, or when you're feeling
stressed, do you focus more on making thenegative emotions go away to feel better?
Or do you focus on letting morepositive emotions or nourishing
(01:12):
experiences in to feel better?
Answers?
Answers can yell 'em out.
Henry, do you wanna answer?
Yes.
I admit it.
I, I focus more on the negative, tryingto get rid of the negative emotions.
Abso-, why did we create Joy Lab?
So Henry and I could focus moreon the positive with all of you.
(01:34):
So if you also said focus more onnegative emotions, wishing for those
to leave, to get some relief, thenyou are in the majority of folks.
Also the majority when it comes tomental health and how that's approached
and treated and researched right?
The focus is nearly always on gettingrid of negative emotions like sadness
(01:56):
or anxiety, rather than focusing onwhat we can let in to feel better.
And there's some good reasonsfor that in healthcare, but we
won't get into that right now.
But I think what it does comedown to is the realization
that this is often not helpful.
It's kind of just what catchesour attention first, this negative
(02:17):
experience and what we've kindof always done, the status quo.
But usual treatment for something likedepression isn't super successful.
It's about a 50% success rate withthe usual meds and limited therapy.
And then two years later, half ofthose folks who had success will have
(02:39):
their depression return most likely.
So I said it can be helpful in someways how we approach it in healthcare.
I mean, we need to deal with what'sfeeling bad, but we're certainly
missing something here, when it comesto depression, which 20% of us will
likely experience in our lifetime.
So this matters.
I think we're also missing, that farmore, far more common state, sort of
(03:02):
right under diagnosable depressionthat many of us languish in where we
maybe don't feel bad enough, but wesure don't feel great or even good.
And we're gonna talk about that state ofminor depression in a, in a later episode.
Um, so I'm kind of setting this up here.
(03:23):
In our last element we talkedabout Savoring, so seeing and
soaking in the good stuff.
What we're talking about today thoughis more about understanding if we're
striking a balance of navigatingthe negative and letting in the
good when we're not feeling well.
And if we're not letting in the good, ifwe're not doing enough of that, how can
(03:45):
we do it to help us get out of cycles ofdepression, anxiety, and chronic stress?
So when, when this topic came beforeus and started, I started to think
about it, I came across a, a studyhere that I thought was relevant.
So I am gonna go out on a limb.
(04:06):
As you know, Aimee, I am notnearly the research geek you are,
You're
uh, but I'm gonna try to channel youfor a minute, and I'm gonna try to
get into this research, which is tome a little bit complex, but I think
it it sheds some interesting lighton what we're talking about here.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
So the study is aboutdepression and learning styles.
(04:30):
So first there are twohallmarks of depression.
This, this is comingfrom me, not the study.
Okay.
The two hallmarks of depression, I thinkone is a low mood, which might be sad
or down, or for some people it's justflat and we usually call that dysphoria.
(04:51):
The other hallmark of depression is theinability to get pleasure from things
that would normally give you pleasure.
And that's called anhedonia.
So all of the other symptoms of depressionthat we were so familiar with, things like
changes in energy and sleep and appetite,really, they're all kind of secondary.
(05:14):
And those first two arethe real core symptoms.
So anhedonia, the loss of pleasureinvolves the dopamine system,
and that's what the researcherswere looking at in this study.
Specifically they were looking at twokey brain signals, which they called
(05:36):
prediction error and expected value.
And they wanted to see if, if they couldpredict how likely someone is to recover
from depression based on these two things.
Okay, so prediction error meansthat what you thought was going to
happen is not what actually happened.
(05:58):
You, you've made a mistakein your prediction.
And guess what?
People who predict that the outcomewill be worse than it actually is.
In other words, those who arefocused on the negative, are less
likely to recover from depression.
So it gave them a good abilityto predict who was gonna recover.
(06:20):
The other factor, expected value is howthe brain calculates the possible rewards
from something you're gonna do, likelet's say exercising or hanging out with
a friend, or maybe even savoring a goodmeal like we talked about last month.
So in other words, it's whether or not weexpect to get good things from something
(06:42):
that we are doing for our own good.
Okay, we're gonna do something thatwe think is gonna be good for us.
Do we expect it'll pay us back or not?
So it turns out that when these aremeasured, the researchers can predict who
is more likely to recover from depression.
Oh
(07:03):
Interesting.
To me, the best predictor is whetheror not we expect to get value from
the things that we do for value.
Wow.
That's a stronger predictor eventhan the, the prediction error.
I thought it'd be the other way.
So did I.
So as I understand it, then, the purposeof this research is to get better at
(07:25):
personalizing treatment approaches.
And here's, here's how theresearchers framed that.
"By observing how each person respondsto rewards and setbacks, we can open
new pathways for designing treatmentsthat match individual learning
patterns." That's what they said.
Hmm.
(07:46):
I read something deeper into this.
Maybe it's not there, but thisis what I see and that is this.
Before we get depressed, wemight be able to reduce our risk.
Or improve our chances of recoveringif we can change the way our brains
work, and especially if we learnto create an expectation that when
(08:10):
we do something positive or fun orpleasurable, it's going to be good.
That is a great study.
I
I
love it Love it.
It is, yeah.
is.
Yeah, the power of predictionand our expectations.
So, kind of joking at thebeginning, but it's true.
This is the work we do at Joy Laband Henry is one of my mentors, but,
(08:33):
um, the work we do here is I'm alsoconstantly reminding myself, joy.
We're, we're, we're looking at cultivatingmore of the good stuff rather than
focusing on rooting out all the bad stuff.
And so we do that work here at, Joy Lab.
We work to change our brain.
And to give more attention to bringingin the good because we really need
(08:54):
it and clearly it really matters.
I slammed healthcare at the beginning, butthere are new treatments integrating this.
Things like augmented depression,therapy, positive CBT, Acceptance and
Commitment Therapy does some of this.
So there are other avenues thatare opening up, that are seeing the
data, that's pretty clear that we'remissing sort of this big half of how
(09:18):
we approach depression, or at leastwe're not looking at it holistically.
kind of maybe pivoting here.
I think what is surprising is that manyof us have this assumption that letting
the good stuff in is always easy.
Like, it'll just happen if, if it'sthere, that us humans will see it.
(09:39):
We'll take it in as if it's just thisautomatic response because it's so clearly
good for us, and that's just not the
case.
Right?
So like, let's get intoa little bit of that.
But I want another belief that Ithink, we need to, we need to kind
of bust, is that if you aren't
(10:01):
an optimist or a relentlesslypositive person, then well,
that's the end of it for you.
You can't change what you see orhow you feel or what you think,
and that's not true either.
Again, why Joy Lab exists, andI know I've been there, so here
are some reasons why letting inthe positive may not be so easy.
(10:24):
Let's get into that.
And we're gonna talkabout avoidance first.
Why would we not let in the goodstuff, why would we avoid it?
There are some formal terms for this, andI actually think they're kind of helpful.
Uh, they are avoidance of positivity, AOP,and fear of positivity positivity, FOP.
(10:46):
So avoidance of positivity describeswhen we actively avoid positive
experiences, and we often do thisbecause we believe happiness won't last.
Or that we don't deserve it.
And then fear of positivity is when wefeel uncomfortable or have anxiety around
(11:06):
feeling happy, which sounds kind of odd,but this is also a common experience.
This can sometimes be relatedto a past negative experience
that followed happiness.
So if you resonate here, you'reprobably that person who is
waiting for the next shoe to drop.
Like you don't wanna get your hopes up'cause you know it'll come crashing down.
(11:26):
That kind of, experience that fear.
And there's also a psychologicaleffect really related that I think
is helpful to call out and it'ssomething called the contrast effect.
This is when we feel or sense somethingpositive or happy, and then we contrast it
,immediately.
(11:47):
With thoughts around itending or its fragility.
So we'll think, we'll see somethinggood, we'll feel some happiness,
and then immediately the contrast.
This isn't gonna last.
I shouldn't get my hopes up.
It's all going to come collapsing down.
And it can really fuel that, thatfear and avoidance of positivity.
The thing about contrasting herealso is that the more dramatic, of
(12:10):
course, negative contrast is kind ofwhat burrows in our system, you know?
So we're contrasting.
It's not the happiness thatwe start to put more weight
on, we, we see the negative.
So we may want to protect ourselvesfrom that contrast that we've thought
up by not letting the good thinghappen to us in the first place.
(12:32):
Like a little survival strategy,but completely unhelpful.
So if something good spontaneouslyhappens to us, we might even push it
away, try to dampen it so you can seethat fear or avoidance, but oftentimes
as we're contrasting, we're just settingourselves up for, I'm gonna block
this, this defense of the positive.
So as we continue to do this, aswe practice this, we do it enough
(12:56):
times, we get really good at it,and it shuts out a lot of positive
Yeah, so you know.
When I hear what you just said,Aimee, I, it's just natural to, to
think, that just makes no sense.
Why would we want to keepourselves from being happy?
(13:18):
So it helps me to remember that whenit comes to the psyche and when it
comes to our emotional life, veryoften things don't make sense.
It's, it's not rational.
This part of our being is not rational.
We are driven by these strange forcesoutside of our conscious control, and
(13:40):
the rational mind doesn't, it tries, butit doesn't have control over all this.
So did you notice what I just said?
Outside of our conscious control.
That is exactly the point.
In that moment, we'renot conscious enough.
And we are then letting fear runthings far more than we really
(14:05):
want it to do for our own good.
So in Joy Lab, we're trying not tooffer fixes to these inner problems.
We are intentionally focusing on the good,which is a very different approach to it.
It's not because we don'tthink problems exist.
We're not being pollyannaish thinkingthat everything is, everything is
(14:27):
good, and that's all that there is.
Well, you could make a case forthat, but rooting out each problem
one by one is just way too hard.
It takes way too much effort, andI just think it's so much more
efficient to raise our entire levelof awareness, which is precisely how
(14:49):
to deal with this fear of positivity.
So when Aimee said that we tell ourselvesthat happiness won't last or that we
push away the good stuff, I think she'sright and I think you're right, Aimee.
This is, this is what happens, butit is only a small, fearful part
of ourselves that's doing that.
(15:09):
And there is a much bigger, much morecourageous part of ourselves that
is able to see what we are doing.
This is what's really important.
This is consciousness; that there's partof us that can see when we are doing this.
And it also knows this is not trueand that can hold our inner balance
(15:31):
through all of this, we are, wecontain multitudes, as the poet
said, and one of our inner selvesis able to observe and watch this
without being all caught up in it.
It takes some practice to be ableto do this, to stay with this
larger, healthier part of ourselves.
(15:53):
But when we do, it's kind of magic.
'cause then we find out we don't have tofix this part of ourselves that's scared
because it just fades into the backgroundas soon as we stopped feeding it.
It was never real in the first place.
(16:14):
Hmm.
Yeah, we can stop feeding it.
I, I think the invitation to notroot out every perceived problem
is just completely liberating.
Um.
It's not just an invitation,like it's just not effective.
You know, we're going beyondjust an encouragement, an
(16:36):
invitation to soak in the good.
It's just the reality of how, we can carefor our inner life, how we can move in the
world, that we have to have that balance.
It gives us space to make forwardprogress, to look up and make
some changes, rather than lookingdown constantly just mired in
what we feel like isn't working.
(16:56):
So we can feed something else.
We do that here in Joy Labin the podcast and program.
This whole episode is like,here's why we do Joy Lab.
I don't mean to say itconstantly, but like this is it.
We, we feed the, the feel good stuff here.
We practice also getting through thenegative emotions, not suppressing
them, and we practice this in balance.
(17:17):
I think that's so important.
So check in, see if you'reletting in enough good.
And if not, you can rebalance the scales.
That's the message.
That's what we do here.
Stay with us, and we can dothat nourishing work together.
So, to close our time today, I wannashare some wisdom from Mary Oliver.
(17:38):
This is from her poem.
Don't hesitate.
I'm gonna take kind ofthe beginning and the end.
I'd encourage you though to go to yourlibrary or buy a Mary Oliver book to get
all the good middles and all the goodbeginning and endings of all of her poems.
So here it is.
"If you suddenly and unexpectedlyfeel joy, don't hesitate.
(18:01):
Give into it.
Whatever it is, don't beafraid of it's plenty.
Joy is not made to be a crumb."
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
(18:21):
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
(18:45):
Please see our terms for more information.
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment with morejoy, combine this podcast with the full
Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach.
(00:27):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmonsand welcome to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So we are in our month ofEquanimity, or balance is another
word we've been using this month.
And today we're talking aboutsomething that can keep us stuck
in maybe an unbalanced statethat might be hard to realize.
(00:48):
And so I'm gonna explain itwith a question for us to
all kind of think through.
So when it comes to feeling in a rut orin a bad mood, or when you're feeling
stressed, do you focus more on making thenegative emotions go away to feel better?
Or do you focus on letting morepositive emotions or nourishing
(01:12):
experiences in to feel better?
Answers?
Answers can yell 'em out.
Henry, do you wanna answer?
Yes.
I admit it.
I, I focus more on the negative, tryingto get rid of the negative emotions.
Abso-, why did we create Joy Lab?
So Henry and I could focus moreon the positive with all of you.
(01:34):
So if you also said focus more onnegative emotions, wishing for those
to leave, to get some relief, thenyou are in the majority of folks.
Also the majority when it comes tomental health and how that's approached
and treated and researched right?
The focus is nearly always on gettingrid of negative emotions like sadness
(01:56):
or anxiety, rather than focusing onwhat we can let in to feel better.
And there's some good reasonsfor that in healthcare, but we
won't get into that right now.
But I think what it does comedown to is the realization
that this is often not helpful.
It's kind of just what catchesour attention first, this negative
(02:17):
experience and what we've kindof always done, the status quo.
But usual treatment for something likedepression isn't super successful.
It's about a 50% success rate withthe usual meds and limited therapy.
And then two years later, half ofthose folks who had success will have
(02:39):
their depression return most likely.
So I said it can be helpful in someways how we approach it in healthcare.
I mean, we need to deal with what'sfeeling bad, but we're certainly
missing something here, when it comesto depression, which 20% of us will
likely experience in our lifetime.
So this matters.
I think we're also missing, that farmore, far more common state, sort of
(03:02):
right under diagnosable depressionthat many of us languish in where we
maybe don't feel bad enough, but wesure don't feel great or even good.
And we're gonna talk about that state ofminor depression in a, in a later episode.
Um, so I'm kind of setting this up here.
(03:23):
In our last element we talkedabout Savoring, so seeing and
soaking in the good stuff.
What we're talking about today thoughis more about understanding if we're
striking a balance of navigatingthe negative and letting in the
good when we're not feeling well.
And if we're not letting in the good, ifwe're not doing enough of that, how can
(03:45):
we do it to help us get out of cycles ofdepression, anxiety, and chronic stress?
So when, when this topic came beforeus and started, I started to think
about it, I came across a, a studyhere that I thought was relevant.
So I am gonna go out on a limb.
(04:06):
As you know, Aimee, I am notnearly the research geek you are,
You're
uh, but I'm gonna try to channel youfor a minute, and I'm gonna try to
get into this research, which is tome a little bit complex, but I think
it it sheds some interesting lighton what we're talking about here.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
So the study is aboutdepression and learning styles.
(04:30):
So first there are twohallmarks of depression.
This, this is comingfrom me, not the study.
Okay.
The two hallmarks of depression, I thinkone is a low mood, which might be sad
or down, or for some people it's justflat and we usually call that dysphoria.
(04:51):
The other hallmark of depression is theinability to get pleasure from things
that would normally give you pleasure.
And that's called anhedonia.
So all of the other symptoms of depressionthat we were so familiar with, things like
changes in energy and sleep and appetite,really, they're all kind of secondary.
(05:14):
And those first two arethe real core symptoms.
So anhedonia, the loss of pleasureinvolves the dopamine system,
and that's what the researcherswere looking at in this study.
Specifically they were looking at twokey brain signals, which they called
(05:36):
prediction error and expected value.
And they wanted to see if, if they couldpredict how likely someone is to recover
from depression based on these two things.
Okay, so prediction error meansthat what you thought was going to
happen is not what actually happened.
(05:58):
You, you've made a mistakein your prediction.
And guess what?
People who predict that the outcomewill be worse than it actually is.
In other words, those who arefocused on the negative, are less
likely to recover from depression.
So it gave them a good abilityto predict who was gonna recover.
(06:20):
The other factor, expected value is howthe brain calculates the possible rewards
from something you're gonna do, likelet's say exercising or hanging out with
a friend, or maybe even savoring a goodmeal like we talked about last month.
So in other words, it's whether or not weexpect to get good things from something
(06:42):
that we are doing for our own good.
Okay, we're gonna do something thatwe think is gonna be good for us.
Do we expect it'll pay us back or not?
So it turns out that when these aremeasured, the researchers can predict who
is more likely to recover from depression.
Oh
(07:03):
Interesting.
To me, the best predictor is whetheror not we expect to get value from
the things that we do for value.
Wow.
That's a stronger predictor eventhan the, the prediction error.
I thought it'd be the other way.
So did I.
So as I understand it, then, the purposeof this research is to get better at
(07:25):
personalizing treatment approaches.
And here's, here's how theresearchers framed that.
"By observing how each person respondsto rewards and setbacks, we can open
new pathways for designing treatmentsthat match individual learning
patterns." That's what they said.
Hmm.
(07:46):
I read something deeper into this.
Maybe it's not there, but thisis what I see and that is this.
Before we get depressed, wemight be able to reduce our risk.
Or improve our chances of recoveringif we can change the way our brains
work, and especially if we learnto create an expectation that when
(08:10):
we do something positive or fun orpleasurable, it's going to be good.
That is a great study.
I
I
love it Love it.
It is, yeah.
is.
Yeah, the power of predictionand our expectations.
So, kind of joking at thebeginning, but it's true.
This is the work we do at Joy Laband Henry is one of my mentors, but,
(08:33):
um, the work we do here is I'm alsoconstantly reminding myself, joy.
We're, we're, we're looking at cultivatingmore of the good stuff rather than
focusing on rooting out all the bad stuff.
And so we do that work here at, Joy Lab.
We work to change our brain.
And to give more attention to bringingin the good because we really need
(08:54):
it and clearly it really matters.
I slammed healthcare at the beginning, butthere are new treatments integrating this.
Things like augmented depression,therapy, positive CBT, Acceptance and
Commitment Therapy does some of this.
So there are other avenues thatare opening up, that are seeing the
data, that's pretty clear that we'remissing sort of this big half of how
(09:18):
we approach depression, or at leastwe're not looking at it holistically.
kind of maybe pivoting here.
I think what is surprising is that manyof us have this assumption that letting
the good stuff in is always easy.
Like, it'll just happen if, if it'sthere, that us humans will see it.
(09:39):
We'll take it in as if it's just thisautomatic response because it's so clearly
good for us, and that's just not the
case.
Right?
So like, let's get intoa little bit of that.
But I want another belief that Ithink, we need to, we need to kind
of bust, is that if you aren't
(10:01):
an optimist or a relentlesslypositive person, then well,
that's the end of it for you.
You can't change what you see orhow you feel or what you think,
and that's not true either.
Again, why Joy Lab exists, andI know I've been there, so here
are some reasons why letting inthe positive may not be so easy.
(10:24):
Let's get into that.
And we're gonna talkabout avoidance first.
Why would we not let in the goodstuff, why would we avoid it?
There are some formal terms for this, andI actually think they're kind of helpful.
Uh, they are avoidance of positivity, AOP,and fear of positivity positivity, FOP.
(10:46):
So avoidance of positivity describeswhen we actively avoid positive
experiences, and we often do thisbecause we believe happiness won't last.
Or that we don't deserve it.
And then fear of positivity is when wefeel uncomfortable or have anxiety around
(11:06):
feeling happy, which sounds kind of odd,but this is also a common experience.
This can sometimes be relatedto a past negative experience
that followed happiness.
So if you resonate here, you'reprobably that person who is
waiting for the next shoe to drop.
Like you don't wanna get your hopes up'cause you know it'll come crashing down.
(11:26):
That kind of, experience that fear.
And there's also a psychologicaleffect really related that I think
is helpful to call out and it'ssomething called the contrast effect.
This is when we feel or sense somethingpositive or happy, and then we contrast it
,immediately.
(11:47):
With thoughts around itending or its fragility.
So we'll think, we'll see somethinggood, we'll feel some happiness,
and then immediately the contrast.
This isn't gonna last.
I shouldn't get my hopes up.
It's all going to come collapsing down.
And it can really fuel that, thatfear and avoidance of positivity.
The thing about contrasting herealso is that the more dramatic, of
(12:10):
course, negative contrast is kind ofwhat burrows in our system, you know?
So we're contrasting.
It's not the happiness thatwe start to put more weight
on, we, we see the negative.
So we may want to protect ourselvesfrom that contrast that we've thought
up by not letting the good thinghappen to us in the first place.
(12:32):
Like a little survival strategy,but completely unhelpful.
So if something good spontaneouslyhappens to us, we might even push it
away, try to dampen it so you can seethat fear or avoidance, but oftentimes
as we're contrasting, we're just settingourselves up for, I'm gonna block
this, this defense of the positive.
So as we continue to do this, aswe practice this, we do it enough
(12:56):
times, we get really good at it,and it shuts out a lot of positive
Yeah, so you know.
When I hear what you just said,Aimee, I, it's just natural to, to
think, that just makes no sense.
Why would we want to keepourselves from being happy?
(13:18):
So it helps me to remember that whenit comes to the psyche and when it
comes to our emotional life, veryoften things don't make sense.
It's, it's not rational.
This part of our being is not rational.
We are driven by these strange forcesoutside of our conscious control, and
(13:40):
the rational mind doesn't, it tries, butit doesn't have control over all this.
So did you notice what I just said?
Outside of our conscious control.
That is exactly the point.
In that moment, we'renot conscious enough.
And we are then letting fear runthings far more than we really
(14:05):
want it to do for our own good.
So in Joy Lab, we're trying not tooffer fixes to these inner problems.
We are intentionally focusing on the good,which is a very different approach to it.
It's not because we don'tthink problems exist.
We're not being pollyannaish thinkingthat everything is, everything is
(14:27):
good, and that's all that there is.
Well, you could make a case forthat, but rooting out each problem
one by one is just way too hard.
It takes way too much effort, andI just think it's so much more
efficient to raise our entire levelof awareness, which is precisely how
(14:49):
to deal with this fear of positivity.
So when Aimee said that we tell ourselvesthat happiness won't last or that we
push away the good stuff, I think she'sright and I think you're right, Aimee.
This is, this is what happens, butit is only a small, fearful part
of ourselves that's doing that.
(15:09):
And there is a much bigger, much morecourageous part of ourselves that
is able to see what we are doing.
This is what's really important.
This is consciousness; that there's partof us that can see when we are doing this.
And it also knows this is not trueand that can hold our inner balance
(15:31):
through all of this, we are, wecontain multitudes, as the poet
said, and one of our inner selvesis able to observe and watch this
without being all caught up in it.
It takes some practice to be ableto do this, to stay with this
larger, healthier part of ourselves.
(15:53):
But when we do, it's kind of magic.
'cause then we find out we don't have tofix this part of ourselves that's scared
because it just fades into the backgroundas soon as we stopped feeding it.
It was never real in the first place.
(16:14):
Hmm.
Yeah, we can stop feeding it.
I, I think the invitation to notroot out every perceived problem
is just completely liberating.
Um.
It's not just an invitation,like it's just not effective.
You know, we're going beyondjust an encouragement, an
(16:36):
invitation to soak in the good.
It's just the reality of how, we can carefor our inner life, how we can move in the
world, that we have to have that balance.
It gives us space to make forwardprogress, to look up and make
some changes, rather than lookingdown constantly just mired in
what we feel like isn't working.
(16:56):
So we can feed something else.
We do that here in Joy Labin the podcast and program.
This whole episode is like,here's why we do Joy Lab.
I don't mean to say itconstantly, but like this is it.
We, we feed the, the feel good stuff here.
We practice also getting through thenegative emotions, not suppressing
them, and we practice this in balance.
(17:17):
I think that's so important.
So check in, see if you'reletting in enough good.
And if not, you can rebalance the scales.
That's the message.
That's what we do here.
Stay with us, and we can dothat nourishing work together.
So, to close our time today, I wannashare some wisdom from Mary Oliver.
(17:38):
This is from her poem.
Don't hesitate.
I'm gonna take kind ofthe beginning and the end.
I'd encourage you though to go to yourlibrary or buy a Mary Oliver book to get
all the good middles and all the goodbeginning and endings of all of her poems.
So here it is.
"If you suddenly and unexpectedlyfeel joy, don't hesitate.
(18:01):
Give into it.
Whatever it is, don't beafraid of it's plenty.
Joy is not made to be a crumb."
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
(18:21):
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
(18:45):
Please see our terms for more information.
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