February 19, 2025 • 27 mins
It's really easy to fall into a deprivation mindset. It's a common message we hear in our lives that can burrow deep into our body and mind, tricking us to believe that there's not enough to go around and we're not enough either. We'll dig into this destructive mindset and how we can weed it out with the help of savoring.
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- Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. https:/www.joylab.coach
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
(00:22):
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Well, Hey everyone, Aimee here.
I just wanted to pop in before
Um,
Henry also joins in for thespecial replay episode of savoring.
So our element for Februaryis savoring here at Joy Lab.
And this is an often sort ofdismissed or forgotten or not
(00:47):
even thought of element of joy.
Yet it is so powerful.
So enjoy.
So this episode, we arefocusing on savoring.
So I actually love that thiselement is still sort of amidst
the season of resolutions.
I think of resolutions sort of asthough the opposite of savoring.
(01:10):
And Henry and I were a bit surprisedto see a story in the New York Times
recently, and it had this statement in it:
"Here's a New Year's resolutionyou can keep. Stop dieting and
start savoring your food instead."
So don't worry, we are not about to do aweight loss episode here, but the focus
on savoring really jumped out at us.
(01:32):
So quickly though, I want to definesavoring, even though I think we
all kind of know what it means.
I like to use a definitionfrom Bryant and Veroff.
These are two key researchers whoreally kind of ignited a lot of
this recent research on savoring.
And they define savoring as "thecapacity to attend to, appreciate,
(01:54):
and enhance the positive experiencesin one's life." Sounds great, right?
So it's, you know, this idea oftaking our time to fully notice
and enjoy something, to get realpleasure from it, to appreciate its
goodness, and even play a role inenhancing that appreciation, making
(02:14):
the experience even more fantastic.
So I think we can all recall a moment whenwe really savored something, but I'm going
to say that most of us don't do it enough.
I know that I don't.
And, you know, this is another oneof those elements that I'm really
focusing on in my own life, so ifyou're like me, maybe you feel a
little bit out of practice with it.
(02:37):
And we may not really even appreciatehow powerful this seemingly
little element of savoring is.
Right, so full disclosure,we didn't have all that much
appreciation for it ourselves.
So when we were originally planningfor all the elements of Joy Lab, we
(02:57):
kind of dismissed savoring as just notbeing quite in the same league as the
other elements, you know, the heavyhitters like gratitude and compassion.
But we have been convinced otherwise,and we hope to persuade you to move it
up on your list of great things to do inorder to bring more joy into your life.
(03:20):
Yeah, so true.
I've worked with these elementsand other sort of, um, universal
values really my entire career asa way to work with mental health.
And savoring was never on my radaruntil we started doing sort of the
deep dive development work for Joy Lab.
And I think in my case as well, I mostlyconflated savoring with mindfulness,
(03:41):
you know, like thinking I had itdown, but it's not the same thing.
We'll kind of get intothat a little bit more.
Right, and you know, there's somepretty interesting science and
compelling research on this, andwe'll get into that more as well.
But let's stick with that New YorkTimes article for just a minute.
The title of the article was,"To Lose Weight, Use Your Brain."
(04:04):
Now, it is pretty widely acceptedthat diets don't often lead to
permanent weight loss because it'shard to go against your biology.
Your body puts up a pretty big fightif you start depriving it of the
calories that it has been accustomed to.
So, really strong willpower can giveyou the upper hand for a while, but
(04:28):
long term, the body usually wins.
And as most dieters know, the really hardpart is keeping the weight off over time.
Now, the author of this article pointsout that there is a large body of
research showing that the techniquesusing mindful awareness work better
than willpower or deprivation.
(04:50):
Learning to be more present and enjoyyour foods, in other words, savoring, can
help you manage what and how much you eat.
Now, I know that just sounds too easy, butit is built on some pretty sound science.
Yeah, it really is.
And I bet if you've ever listenedto this podcast before, you'll know
(05:11):
exactly what I'm going to say next,which is: you're wired for it.
You know, our ability to savor thingsis built into each and every one of us.
Which means that it'sreally, really important.
Like important from asurvival perspective.
The elements we talk about hereare practices that have evolved
because they have supported thewellbeing and survival of our
(05:33):
species and savoring is no different.
Well, it might be a little differentand that is that there is kind of
a flaw in our system and I thinkmost of us have experienced it.
But before we go there How about if I takejust a short detour into Greek mythology?
What do you think?
(05:53):
Yes, I would love to hear whereyou're going to go with that, Henry.
Okay.
Do it.
So, you remember when Odysseus journeyedhome after the Trojan War, and it took
him years and years because he and hiscrew ran into so many dangerous obstacles.
One of them was that they hadto navigate their ship through
(06:15):
this treacherous, narrow channel.
And not only was it narrow, buton one side there was this six
headed sea monster called Scylla.
And on the other side, there was adreadful whirlpool called Cherubdis.
Very few ships got throughthat channel safely.
If you went just a little too far ineither direction, you know, you're sunk.
(06:39):
So you really had to thread the needle.
And Odysseus, who was not perfect, byany means, did lose a few of his men to
the sea monster, but by staying prettyclose to the center, they made it through.
Now that is a mythic description of whatthe Greek philosophers called the golden
(07:00):
mean, which was really one of theircore principles for living a good life.
On one side is excess, onthe other side is deficiency.
Both of those are goingto give you trouble.
So you want to try to goright down the middle.
It's reminding me of theBuddhist idea of the middle way.
(07:20):
You know, you got indulgenceon one side and deprivation,
finding that path between.
So now I'm really interested,Henry, how you're going to tie this
back to the science of savoring.
Okay, so I think, without knowingit, of course, that the Greeks and
the Buddhists in ancient times weretalking about the dopamine system.
(07:41):
And they were sharing theirwisdom on how to manage it.
I know that's a stretch, sobear with me for a minute.
Dopamine is one of the key brainchemicals for regulating mood.
It is also known as the pleasure chemical.
We get a dopamine boostwhenever we experience pleasure.
(08:03):
And that also puts us into a good mood.
But if dopamine levelsdrop, our mood drops.
And in some forms of depression, thereis such a profound loss of pleasure
called anhedonia that you can just betthat the dopamine system is involved.
Dopamine and pleasure are alsoclosely tied to motivation
(08:25):
because the brain motivates us.
It really wants us to find thingsthat gives us pleasure and it
creates this drive to get them.
So it says, Ooh, that was good.
I want more of that.
But the trouble is when our ancestorswere evolving, when the human brain was
evolving, there really wasn't all thatmuch of a problem with excess, with
(08:51):
having too much of these good things.
Now there is, and that's the flawin the system, there isn't really
a good shut off valve for pleasure.
As far as our bodies areconcerned, the more pleasure,
the more dopamine, the better.
And in this case, our naturecan get us into trouble, because
(09:13):
in a sense, we are insatiable.
There is never quite enough.
And we haven't really fixed this flawbecause it's just woven into our biology.
I can't help myself, but I have to reflecton life through show or movie quotes.
And I'm thinking of an Office episodewhere Michael and Dwight are at the
(09:35):
dump looking for something, and you can,you know, they're just dwarfed by this
massive garbage mountain, and they'retaken in by this overwhelming amount.
And Dwight says something like,"No other animal on earth could
do this. Maybe beavers. Butnot like this." It's deceptive.
You know, we're amidst excessand inequities and then we're
(09:57):
out of practice for savoring.
I think it sort of helps us lean intothis feeling of insufficiency as if we
don't have enough or we aren't enough.
And we get caught on this treadmill ofstriving, trying to fill ourselves up with
material things or food or experiences.
And it's so common.
(10:18):
Like daily life common.
Actually sort of have a daily lifeexample with insufficiency, I think,
where I missed out on a lot of savoring.
I'll try to tell it quickly andmaybe some others can relate.
So my husband and I decided itwould be a good idea to rent a
very small RV and go on a roadtrip with our toddler and two dogs.
(10:42):
The plan was that my husband and daughterwould fly to Phoenix and then I would
drive myself and the two dogs in theRV from Minnesota and pick them up.
And we would adventure throughthe southern US for two weeks
without a care in the world.
And so even though I had never driven anRV, I was confident I could handle it.
And not only that, I was sure that sevendays I had planned to take to get there
(11:07):
with just me and the pups would be someof the most spiritually transformative
days of my life, like just coasting on theopen road, capturing wisdom and insights
as I steered, sort of into enlightenment.
I built it up like crazy.
So the first hour of driving was amazing.
(11:28):
And then I hit a snow storm in Iowa andthese terrifying winds were hitting me
that were blowing me all over the road.
And semis would fly by me and with eachone, I would grip that wheel as tight as
I could and a little tighter each time, myfingers were nearly locked in that gripped
position after like only an hour of it.
(11:48):
I proceeded to hydroplanethrough rainstorms in Kansas.
I tried to calm myself down in Oklahomaat a brewery, subsequently drank too much,
and woke up with a terrible hangover.
I hit straight line winds inTexas, um, I was caught in another
freak snowstorm in New Mexico.
(12:09):
It was terrible.
Not my finest hours.
And I spent most of my driving and nondriving time agonizing and grieving
over how completely different thevision I had in my head for the
trip was from the actual experience.
I'm sure you can imagine that like thisunsavory trend sort of continued as my
(12:30):
husband and toddler were added to the mix.
And our, our two year, she was two anda half at the time, would not sleep
in the RV and toddlers who haven'tslept are absolutely terrifying.
And we were ready to call itquits as a family after five days
of this 14 day family adventure.
So on a good note, I will say we wereable to make some sort of mental shifts,
(12:51):
forced ourselves to in the second halfof our trip to soak in some goodness.
But we did come home a full dayearly, like, completely exhausted.
And so, I actually got a reallygood lesson from this trip.
I realized that I had built up myown ideas of what could be savored.
And because reality didn't match,and because I was grasping onto my
(13:15):
expectations, I couldn't savor what wasactually right there in front of me.
And there were good
moments
, I can catch like half glimpses of them now, but I couldn't attend as researchers
Bryant and Veroff note is key to savoring.
So I couldn't really appreciateor enhance what was good.
And I think I really, I actuallymissed a lot of that vacation
(13:39):
simply because I was caught up inthose perceived insufficiencies
that I had created in my head.
I'm pretty sure, Aimee, that ourlisteners and me can relate to that.
So, we human beings have a complicatedrelationship with pleasure.
You know, we want it so badly andwe go to such great lengths to get
(14:04):
it, but often we miss it anyway.
There's another unfortunate issuewith this relationship we have
with pleasure, and that is that themore intense and short lived the
experience of pleasure, the strongerthe drive is to get more of it.
As many of us know, thiscan become overpowering.
(14:28):
Most of the addictions are tied to this.
One really good example is nicotine,which is one of the most addictive drugs
around because it gives such a quick,strong hit to the dopamine receptors.
Gambling, sexualaddictions, food addictions.
All of these affect the dopamine system.
(14:51):
And now, we have this littledopamine dispensary that we
carry around in our pockets.
So every time that we pull outour phones to compulsively check
social media or news feeds, we getanother little hit of dopamine.
I don't know about you, but I don't haveenough willpower to deal with all of this.
(15:14):
And I think that is exactlywhere savoring comes in.
Yeah, you actually referenced earlier,and then as that New York Times article
highlighted, there's a growing amountof research on using the practices of
savoring to increase healthy food intake,to decrease overeating, to promote
a healthier relationship with food.
So I love that, you know,diet less, savor more.
(15:36):
Overall though, the research in thisarea has really exploded in the last
five years and it's suggesting alot of applications for savoring.
So there's solid evidence for it'suse to address things like anxiety
and depression, but also for reducingopioid misuse risk, promoting
positive attitudes toward aging.
I say that because I have a bigbirthday tomorrow that I want to savor.
(16:00):
But savoring is also being used toprotect soldiers from things like
negative impacts of combat exposure.
It's associated with reduced suicide risk.
It's being used for addictions.
So, I mean, this simple practice ofsavoring is really kind of a superpower.
There's also some interesting researchon the neuropsychology of savoring,
(16:22):
suggesting that there's a measurableand lasting impact from the practice
that actually increases our neuralresponse to future positive experiences.
So let me explain this alittle bit more clearly.
There's a recent study from researchersWilson and McNamara where they trained
participants in a simple savoringpractice, like just how to savor an
(16:44):
image, nothing fancy, super simple.
A control group in this study wasnot trained in any savoring practice.
So both groups looked at a group ofimages, the same images, some were
neutral, like a chair, and somewere positive, like an adorable
puppy and then all participantsbrain activity was measured.
Specifically, it was something calledLate Positive Potential, or LPP.
(17:08):
It's essentially a measurefor emotional arousal.
And so participants also rated howpositive the images were that they
were viewing and the emotional arousalthat they felt when they saw them.
Okay, this is cool.
So the participants who were trained tosavor, just that simple practice, those
who were trained to savor those imagesrated all the images as more pleasant
(17:29):
compared to the control group with thepositive images being even more enjoyable.
Like that cute puppy.
So probably no surprise there.
Now, the savoring group also showedlarger LPP, meaning that increased
activation in areas of the brainassociated with emotional arousal, right?
So they were really feeling somethingdifferent, um, than the control group.
(17:49):
A heightened response that was,according to their own reports, positive.
The researchers then had the groupsview another set of images 20 minutes
later without any instructionsto savor for either group.
And a few of the images wererepeats from the last round.
Now for the savoring group, the imagesthat had been savored earlier and
(18:11):
appeared again were actually rated asmore pleasant and elicited that larger LPP
compared images that had not been savored.
This is subtle, but reallyimportant and I love it.
it says that in just those fewmoments, that group of savorers were
able to train their brain to attendto something, you know, appreciate it
(18:32):
more and enhance its impact for them.
And create, at least in theshort term, a lasting impact.
And I think it's really easy toimagine how we can do this daily.
Just picking one thing to savorthat shows up in your daily life.
One thing to attend to, to giveyour attention to, to stay with
(18:53):
for a bit, to enjoy it, and toenhance those good feelings.
And when that thing rolls around thenext day or later, it can offer just
like an automatic, little positiveboost without you doing a thing.
Those areas of the brain will beactivated again like they were previously,
just by seeing that thing again.
(19:14):
I love that the science points to howsimple this is and how accessible, yeah.
You don't need to get anything.
To purchase anythingmore in order to do this.
You can start with what you already have.
And if you can simply give it yourattention and appreciation, you can
(19:36):
savor it, and it can make you happier.
Yeah, I really also love how savoringbuilds on that sort of mindful attention
to then brew up more of those positivefeelings, you know, there's been this
great movement for building mindfulness,that non judgmental present moment
awareness, you know, to build up thosemindfulness skills to better deal
(19:58):
with mental and emotional distress.
So with that, the cue is to focus onlearning to see thoughts for just what
they are, you know, just thoughts andtolerate those negative or unpleasant
emotions without attaching to themso you can let them move through you.
But with savoring, we use thatattention and then regulate the
emotional impact of positive eventsso that we can really be with them.
(20:22):
We can enhance them.
It's sort of that other side ofemotional regulation, I think,
that rarely gets discussed.
You know, we don't want to be eaten by thesix headed monster, coming back to your
Greek mythology, Henry, get consumed inan unhealthy way, but it's essential for
our wellbeing, our joy, to soak in thenourishment of the good things that are
(20:44):
all around us and participate with them toenhance the benefits that we can receive.
Yeah, I think, uh, as I'm thinkingabout this, it's, it occurs to me
that a lot of my, experiences withsavoring are sort of notable because
they don't happen all the time.
Whereas it's possible to weave this intoour daily lives as you described earlier.
(21:07):
So I do have a little story I'd like toshare about kind of a special moment of
savoring that just taught me something,and it, it happened just recently.
Um, every year at about this time,some friends of mine and I go
on a, a weekend ski trip, hikingtrip up in way northern Minnesota.
So it's like we just say we aregoing to go into the heart of winter
(21:32):
and we're going to embrace it.
So unfortunately it got cancelledthis year with the group, but
I just decided to go by myselffor a little personal retreat.
And sure enough, it wasreally, really cold.
So, I know I'm going to sound like awinter nerd here, but I actually love
being outdoors in weather like that.
(21:55):
So one day in the middle of theday when the sun was close to its
peak, which still isn't very high, Idecided to go for a walk in the woods.
Now, since we had this podcast comingup, and I'd been thinking and preparing
for this, I had this notion of savoringon my mind, so I thought, "Okay,
I'm just going to practice this."
(22:16):
And here's what happened.
And by the way, I amno expert in savoring.
I haven't had anyparticular training in it.
I don't consider myself to beall that good at it, frankly.
But here's what happened.
So the first thing is, I didnot put my earbuds in as I
usually do when I go for a walk.
I decided I just wanted to listento the sounds of nature, even
(22:38):
though mostly the only thing I couldhear was the crunching of my boots
on the really, really cold snow.
Then, I decided I was going to let myselfactually feel the cold, be aware of it.
Now, it wasn't windy thatday, so it wasn't painful.
And I was just able to notice the feelingof it on my face, my hands, my feet.
(23:01):
And then as I kept walking, I justtuned into the rhythm of my movement,
my muscles contracting and relaxingwith each step and, and gradually my
body warming up gently on its own.
Lovely feeling.
Then I decided I really want to seethe nature around me, really see it.
(23:23):
So I really tried to notice veryclearly everything, all the beauty,
the trees, the snow, the sun.
Now, by this time I was throughthe woods and on the lake, and so
there was this big expanse, vista,and I was walking into the sun.
So the sun was on my face and Idecided this, this is so great.
(23:44):
I just want to stop fora moment and soak it in.
When I did that, the, the crunchingsound of my feet stopped and I
was able to hear this incrediblestillness, the silence that was
interrupted by only one woodpecker,a short ways away, tapping on a tree.
It was really cool, so I decidedI'm going to just turn around and
(24:08):
see if I can see that woodpecker,which I couldn't, but directly
behind me, the full moon was rising.
And it was stunning.
Sun on one side, moon on the other,about equal distance from the horizon.
And then I suddenly realized something.
Something was different.
(24:29):
I had stopped thinkingfor just a little while.
I had stopped thinking.
And not only that, but I was awareof this feeling of genuine happiness.
There was nothing in thatmoment that I needed or wanted
that I didn't already have.
(24:50):
It felt simply perfect.
Now, I've had moments like that before,and I'm sure I'll have them again.
I only hope that I can noticethem, that I can be there for
them, that I can savor them.
Yeah...
you've sort of ignited my imagination.
(25:11):
I'm traveling to that same superquiet winter forest It's just boosts
my mood to sort of think about that.
Which is actually a savoring practice.
That positive sort of mental time travelthat we can embark on, you know, we can
anticipate an event before it happens,something in the future we can then of
course, be there in the moment to savorit, like you were describing in that
(25:34):
winter forest, Henry, and we can alsoreminisce about a once savored experience.
We can even, I love this, we can evenlook forward to looking back, which
is called anticipated recall and lookback on having looked forward, which
is called recalled anticipation.
Right?
There are so many ways to savor.
(25:54):
Um, we'll dive into more of those in ourJoy Lab program, but, I better close our
podcast before we sort of travel back tothe future and somehow miss this episode.
So, um, here, here's a littlestory from, from Joan Chidester
that I think is a really good wayto close this element of savoring.
(26:15):
The Sufi tells of the disciple who asked,"is there anything I can do to make
myself enlightened?" As little as you cando to make the sun rise in the morning.
"Then of what use are the spiritualexercises you prescribe?" "To
make sure you are not asleepwhen the sun begins to rise."
(26:40):
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
(27:03):
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
(00:22):
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Well, Hey everyone, Aimee here.
I just wanted to pop in before
Um,
Henry also joins in for thespecial replay episode of savoring.
So our element for Februaryis savoring here at Joy Lab.
And this is an often sort ofdismissed or forgotten or not
(00:47):
even thought of element of joy.
Yet it is so powerful.
So enjoy.
So this episode, we arefocusing on savoring.
So I actually love that thiselement is still sort of amidst
the season of resolutions.
I think of resolutions sort of asthough the opposite of savoring.
(01:10):
And Henry and I were a bit surprisedto see a story in the New York Times
recently, and it had this statement in it:
"Here's a New Year's resolutionyou can keep. Stop dieting and
start savoring your food instead."
So don't worry, we are not about to do aweight loss episode here, but the focus
on savoring really jumped out at us.
(01:32):
So quickly though, I want to definesavoring, even though I think we
all kind of know what it means.
I like to use a definitionfrom Bryant and Veroff.
These are two key researchers whoreally kind of ignited a lot of
this recent research on savoring.
And they define savoring as "thecapacity to attend to, appreciate,
(01:54):
and enhance the positive experiencesin one's life." Sounds great, right?
So it's, you know, this idea oftaking our time to fully notice
and enjoy something, to get realpleasure from it, to appreciate its
goodness, and even play a role inenhancing that appreciation, making
(02:14):
the experience even more fantastic.
So I think we can all recall a moment whenwe really savored something, but I'm going
to say that most of us don't do it enough.
I know that I don't.
And, you know, this is another oneof those elements that I'm really
focusing on in my own life, so ifyou're like me, maybe you feel a
little bit out of practice with it.
(02:37):
And we may not really even appreciatehow powerful this seemingly
little element of savoring is.
Right, so full disclosure,we didn't have all that much
appreciation for it ourselves.
So when we were originally planningfor all the elements of Joy Lab, we
(02:57):
kind of dismissed savoring as just notbeing quite in the same league as the
other elements, you know, the heavyhitters like gratitude and compassion.
But we have been convinced otherwise,and we hope to persuade you to move it
up on your list of great things to do inorder to bring more joy into your life.
(03:20):
Yeah, so true.
I've worked with these elementsand other sort of, um, universal
values really my entire career asa way to work with mental health.
And savoring was never on my radaruntil we started doing sort of the
deep dive development work for Joy Lab.
And I think in my case as well, I mostlyconflated savoring with mindfulness,
(03:41):
you know, like thinking I had itdown, but it's not the same thing.
We'll kind of get intothat a little bit more.
Right, and you know, there's somepretty interesting science and
compelling research on this, andwe'll get into that more as well.
But let's stick with that New YorkTimes article for just a minute.
The title of the article was,"To Lose Weight, Use Your Brain."
(04:04):
Now, it is pretty widely acceptedthat diets don't often lead to
permanent weight loss because it'shard to go against your biology.
Your body puts up a pretty big fightif you start depriving it of the
calories that it has been accustomed to.
So, really strong willpower can giveyou the upper hand for a while, but
(04:28):
long term, the body usually wins.
And as most dieters know, the really hardpart is keeping the weight off over time.
Now, the author of this article pointsout that there is a large body of
research showing that the techniquesusing mindful awareness work better
than willpower or deprivation.
(04:50):
Learning to be more present and enjoyyour foods, in other words, savoring, can
help you manage what and how much you eat.
Now, I know that just sounds too easy, butit is built on some pretty sound science.
Yeah, it really is.
And I bet if you've ever listenedto this podcast before, you'll know
(05:11):
exactly what I'm going to say next,which is: you're wired for it.
You know, our ability to savor thingsis built into each and every one of us.
Which means that it'sreally, really important.
Like important from asurvival perspective.
The elements we talk about hereare practices that have evolved
because they have supported thewellbeing and survival of our
(05:33):
species and savoring is no different.
Well, it might be a little differentand that is that there is kind of
a flaw in our system and I thinkmost of us have experienced it.
But before we go there How about if I takejust a short detour into Greek mythology?
What do you think?
(05:53):
Yes, I would love to hear whereyou're going to go with that, Henry.
Okay.
Do it.
So, you remember when Odysseus journeyedhome after the Trojan War, and it took
him years and years because he and hiscrew ran into so many dangerous obstacles.
One of them was that they hadto navigate their ship through
(06:15):
this treacherous, narrow channel.
And not only was it narrow, buton one side there was this six
headed sea monster called Scylla.
And on the other side, there was adreadful whirlpool called Cherubdis.
Very few ships got throughthat channel safely.
If you went just a little too far ineither direction, you know, you're sunk.
(06:39):
So you really had to thread the needle.
And Odysseus, who was not perfect, byany means, did lose a few of his men to
the sea monster, but by staying prettyclose to the center, they made it through.
Now that is a mythic description of whatthe Greek philosophers called the golden
(07:00):
mean, which was really one of theircore principles for living a good life.
On one side is excess, onthe other side is deficiency.
Both of those are goingto give you trouble.
So you want to try to goright down the middle.
It's reminding me of theBuddhist idea of the middle way.
(07:20):
You know, you got indulgenceon one side and deprivation,
finding that path between.
So now I'm really interested,Henry, how you're going to tie this
back to the science of savoring.
Okay, so I think, without knowingit, of course, that the Greeks and
the Buddhists in ancient times weretalking about the dopamine system.
(07:41):
And they were sharing theirwisdom on how to manage it.
I know that's a stretch, sobear with me for a minute.
Dopamine is one of the key brainchemicals for regulating mood.
It is also known as the pleasure chemical.
We get a dopamine boostwhenever we experience pleasure.
(08:03):
And that also puts us into a good mood.
But if dopamine levelsdrop, our mood drops.
And in some forms of depression, thereis such a profound loss of pleasure
called anhedonia that you can just betthat the dopamine system is involved.
Dopamine and pleasure are alsoclosely tied to motivation
(08:25):
because the brain motivates us.
It really wants us to find thingsthat gives us pleasure and it
creates this drive to get them.
So it says, Ooh, that was good.
I want more of that.
But the trouble is when our ancestorswere evolving, when the human brain was
evolving, there really wasn't all thatmuch of a problem with excess, with
(08:51):
having too much of these good things.
Now there is, and that's the flawin the system, there isn't really
a good shut off valve for pleasure.
As far as our bodies areconcerned, the more pleasure,
the more dopamine, the better.
And in this case, our naturecan get us into trouble, because
(09:13):
in a sense, we are insatiable.
There is never quite enough.
And we haven't really fixed this flawbecause it's just woven into our biology.
I can't help myself, but I have to reflecton life through show or movie quotes.
And I'm thinking of an Office episodewhere Michael and Dwight are at the
(09:35):
dump looking for something, and you can,you know, they're just dwarfed by this
massive garbage mountain, and they'retaken in by this overwhelming amount.
And Dwight says something like,"No other animal on earth could
do this. Maybe beavers. Butnot like this." It's deceptive.
You know, we're amidst excessand inequities and then we're
(09:57):
out of practice for savoring.
I think it sort of helps us lean intothis feeling of insufficiency as if we
don't have enough or we aren't enough.
And we get caught on this treadmill ofstriving, trying to fill ourselves up with
material things or food or experiences.
And it's so common.
(10:18):
Like daily life common.
Actually sort of have a daily lifeexample with insufficiency, I think,
where I missed out on a lot of savoring.
I'll try to tell it quickly andmaybe some others can relate.
So my husband and I decided itwould be a good idea to rent a
very small RV and go on a roadtrip with our toddler and two dogs.
(10:42):
The plan was that my husband and daughterwould fly to Phoenix and then I would
drive myself and the two dogs in theRV from Minnesota and pick them up.
And we would adventure throughthe southern US for two weeks
without a care in the world.
And so even though I had never driven anRV, I was confident I could handle it.
And not only that, I was sure that sevendays I had planned to take to get there
(11:07):
with just me and the pups would be someof the most spiritually transformative
days of my life, like just coasting on theopen road, capturing wisdom and insights
as I steered, sort of into enlightenment.
I built it up like crazy.
So the first hour of driving was amazing.
(11:28):
And then I hit a snow storm in Iowa andthese terrifying winds were hitting me
that were blowing me all over the road.
And semis would fly by me and with eachone, I would grip that wheel as tight as
I could and a little tighter each time, myfingers were nearly locked in that gripped
position after like only an hour of it.
(11:48):
I proceeded to hydroplanethrough rainstorms in Kansas.
I tried to calm myself down in Oklahomaat a brewery, subsequently drank too much,
and woke up with a terrible hangover.
I hit straight line winds inTexas, um, I was caught in another
freak snowstorm in New Mexico.
(12:09):
It was terrible.
Not my finest hours.
And I spent most of my driving and nondriving time agonizing and grieving
over how completely different thevision I had in my head for the
trip was from the actual experience.
I'm sure you can imagine that like thisunsavory trend sort of continued as my
(12:30):
husband and toddler were added to the mix.
And our, our two year, she was two anda half at the time, would not sleep
in the RV and toddlers who haven'tslept are absolutely terrifying.
And we were ready to call itquits as a family after five days
of this 14 day family adventure.
So on a good note, I will say we wereable to make some sort of mental shifts,
(12:51):
forced ourselves to in the second halfof our trip to soak in some goodness.
But we did come home a full dayearly, like, completely exhausted.
And so, I actually got a reallygood lesson from this trip.
I realized that I had built up myown ideas of what could be savored.
And because reality didn't match,and because I was grasping onto my
(13:15):
expectations, I couldn't savor what wasactually right there in front of me.
And there were good
moments
, I can catch like half glimpses of them now, but I couldn't attend as researchers
Bryant and Veroff note is key to savoring.
So I couldn't really appreciateor enhance what was good.
And I think I really, I actuallymissed a lot of that vacation
(13:39):
simply because I was caught up inthose perceived insufficiencies
that I had created in my head.
I'm pretty sure, Aimee, that ourlisteners and me can relate to that.
So, we human beings have a complicatedrelationship with pleasure.
You know, we want it so badly andwe go to such great lengths to get
(14:04):
it, but often we miss it anyway.
There's another unfortunate issuewith this relationship we have
with pleasure, and that is that themore intense and short lived the
experience of pleasure, the strongerthe drive is to get more of it.
As many of us know, thiscan become overpowering.
(14:28):
Most of the addictions are tied to this.
One really good example is nicotine,which is one of the most addictive drugs
around because it gives such a quick,strong hit to the dopamine receptors.
Gambling, sexualaddictions, food addictions.
All of these affect the dopamine system.
(14:51):
And now, we have this littledopamine dispensary that we
carry around in our pockets.
So every time that we pull outour phones to compulsively check
social media or news feeds, we getanother little hit of dopamine.
I don't know about you, but I don't haveenough willpower to deal with all of this.
(15:14):
And I think that is exactlywhere savoring comes in.
Yeah, you actually referenced earlier,and then as that New York Times article
highlighted, there's a growing amountof research on using the practices of
savoring to increase healthy food intake,to decrease overeating, to promote
a healthier relationship with food.
So I love that, you know,diet less, savor more.
(15:36):
Overall though, the research in thisarea has really exploded in the last
five years and it's suggesting alot of applications for savoring.
So there's solid evidence for it'suse to address things like anxiety
and depression, but also for reducingopioid misuse risk, promoting
positive attitudes toward aging.
I say that because I have a bigbirthday tomorrow that I want to savor.
(16:00):
But savoring is also being used toprotect soldiers from things like
negative impacts of combat exposure.
It's associated with reduced suicide risk.
It's being used for addictions.
So, I mean, this simple practice ofsavoring is really kind of a superpower.
There's also some interesting researchon the neuropsychology of savoring,
(16:22):
suggesting that there's a measurableand lasting impact from the practice
that actually increases our neuralresponse to future positive experiences.
So let me explain this alittle bit more clearly.
There's a recent study from researchersWilson and McNamara where they trained
participants in a simple savoringpractice, like just how to savor an
(16:44):
image, nothing fancy, super simple.
A control group in this study wasnot trained in any savoring practice.
So both groups looked at a group ofimages, the same images, some were
neutral, like a chair, and somewere positive, like an adorable
puppy and then all participantsbrain activity was measured.
Specifically, it was something calledLate Positive Potential, or LPP.
(17:08):
It's essentially a measurefor emotional arousal.
And so participants also rated howpositive the images were that they
were viewing and the emotional arousalthat they felt when they saw them.
Okay, this is cool.
So the participants who were trained tosavor, just that simple practice, those
who were trained to savor those imagesrated all the images as more pleasant
(17:29):
compared to the control group with thepositive images being even more enjoyable.
Like that cute puppy.
So probably no surprise there.
Now, the savoring group also showedlarger LPP, meaning that increased
activation in areas of the brainassociated with emotional arousal, right?
So they were really feeling somethingdifferent, um, than the control group.
(17:49):
A heightened response that was,according to their own reports, positive.
The researchers then had the groupsview another set of images 20 minutes
later without any instructionsto savor for either group.
And a few of the images wererepeats from the last round.
Now for the savoring group, the imagesthat had been savored earlier and
(18:11):
appeared again were actually rated asmore pleasant and elicited that larger LPP
compared images that had not been savored.
This is subtle, but reallyimportant and I love it.
it says that in just those fewmoments, that group of savorers were
able to train their brain to attendto something, you know, appreciate it
(18:32):
more and enhance its impact for them.
And create, at least in theshort term, a lasting impact.
And I think it's really easy toimagine how we can do this daily.
Just picking one thing to savorthat shows up in your daily life.
One thing to attend to, to giveyour attention to, to stay with
(18:53):
for a bit, to enjoy it, and toenhance those good feelings.
And when that thing rolls around thenext day or later, it can offer just
like an automatic, little positiveboost without you doing a thing.
Those areas of the brain will beactivated again like they were previously,
just by seeing that thing again.
(19:14):
I love that the science points to howsimple this is and how accessible, yeah.
You don't need to get anything.
To purchase anythingmore in order to do this.
You can start with what you already have.
And if you can simply give it yourattention and appreciation, you can
(19:36):
savor it, and it can make you happier.
Yeah, I really also love how savoringbuilds on that sort of mindful attention
to then brew up more of those positivefeelings, you know, there's been this
great movement for building mindfulness,that non judgmental present moment
awareness, you know, to build up thosemindfulness skills to better deal
(19:58):
with mental and emotional distress.
So with that, the cue is to focus onlearning to see thoughts for just what
they are, you know, just thoughts andtolerate those negative or unpleasant
emotions without attaching to themso you can let them move through you.
But with savoring, we use thatattention and then regulate the
emotional impact of positive eventsso that we can really be with them.
(20:22):
We can enhance them.
It's sort of that other side ofemotional regulation, I think,
that rarely gets discussed.
You know, we don't want to be eaten by thesix headed monster, coming back to your
Greek mythology, Henry, get consumed inan unhealthy way, but it's essential for
our wellbeing, our joy, to soak in thenourishment of the good things that are
(20:44):
all around us and participate with them toenhance the benefits that we can receive.
Yeah, I think, uh, as I'm thinkingabout this, it's, it occurs to me
that a lot of my, experiences withsavoring are sort of notable because
they don't happen all the time.
Whereas it's possible to weave this intoour daily lives as you described earlier.
(21:07):
So I do have a little story I'd like toshare about kind of a special moment of
savoring that just taught me something,and it, it happened just recently.
Um, every year at about this time,some friends of mine and I go
on a, a weekend ski trip, hikingtrip up in way northern Minnesota.
So it's like we just say we aregoing to go into the heart of winter
(21:32):
and we're going to embrace it.
So unfortunately it got cancelledthis year with the group, but
I just decided to go by myselffor a little personal retreat.
And sure enough, it wasreally, really cold.
So, I know I'm going to sound like awinter nerd here, but I actually love
being outdoors in weather like that.
(21:55):
So one day in the middle of theday when the sun was close to its
peak, which still isn't very high, Idecided to go for a walk in the woods.
Now, since we had this podcast comingup, and I'd been thinking and preparing
for this, I had this notion of savoringon my mind, so I thought, "Okay,
I'm just going to practice this."
(22:16):
And here's what happened.
And by the way, I amno expert in savoring.
I haven't had anyparticular training in it.
I don't consider myself to beall that good at it, frankly.
But here's what happened.
So the first thing is, I didnot put my earbuds in as I
usually do when I go for a walk.
I decided I just wanted to listento the sounds of nature, even
(22:38):
though mostly the only thing I couldhear was the crunching of my boots
on the really, really cold snow.
Then, I decided I was going to let myselfactually feel the cold, be aware of it.
Now, it wasn't windy thatday, so it wasn't painful.
And I was just able to notice the feelingof it on my face, my hands, my feet.
(23:01):
And then as I kept walking, I justtuned into the rhythm of my movement,
my muscles contracting and relaxingwith each step and, and gradually my
body warming up gently on its own.
Lovely feeling.
Then I decided I really want to seethe nature around me, really see it.
(23:23):
So I really tried to notice veryclearly everything, all the beauty,
the trees, the snow, the sun.
Now, by this time I was throughthe woods and on the lake, and so
there was this big expanse, vista,and I was walking into the sun.
So the sun was on my face and Idecided this, this is so great.
(23:44):
I just want to stop fora moment and soak it in.
When I did that, the, the crunchingsound of my feet stopped and I
was able to hear this incrediblestillness, the silence that was
interrupted by only one woodpecker,a short ways away, tapping on a tree.
It was really cool, so I decidedI'm going to just turn around and
(24:08):
see if I can see that woodpecker,which I couldn't, but directly
behind me, the full moon was rising.
And it was stunning.
Sun on one side, moon on the other,about equal distance from the horizon.
And then I suddenly realized something.
Something was different.
(24:29):
I had stopped thinkingfor just a little while.
I had stopped thinking.
And not only that, but I was awareof this feeling of genuine happiness.
There was nothing in thatmoment that I needed or wanted
that I didn't already have.
(24:50):
It felt simply perfect.
Now, I've had moments like that before,and I'm sure I'll have them again.
I only hope that I can noticethem, that I can be there for
them, that I can savor them.
Yeah...
you've sort of ignited my imagination.
(25:11):
I'm traveling to that same superquiet winter forest It's just boosts
my mood to sort of think about that.
Which is actually a savoring practice.
That positive sort of mental time travelthat we can embark on, you know, we can
anticipate an event before it happens,something in the future we can then of
course, be there in the moment to savorit, like you were describing in that
(25:34):
winter forest, Henry, and we can alsoreminisce about a once savored experience.
We can even, I love this, we can evenlook forward to looking back, which
is called anticipated recall and lookback on having looked forward, which
is called recalled anticipation.
Right?
There are so many ways to savor.
(25:54):
Um, we'll dive into more of those in ourJoy Lab program, but, I better close our
podcast before we sort of travel back tothe future and somehow miss this episode.
So, um, here, here's a littlestory from, from Joan Chidester
that I think is a really good wayto close this element of savoring.
(26:15):
The Sufi tells of the disciple who asked,"is there anything I can do to make
myself enlightened?" As little as you cando to make the sun rise in the morning.
"Then of what use are the spiritualexercises you prescribe?" "To
make sure you are not asleepwhen the sun begins to rise."
(26:40):
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
(27:03):
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
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