August 28, 2024 • 26 mins
Too often mental health conversations get stuck in a focus of dysfunction, uncomfortable symptoms, and focusing on "fixing" what feels off. But, mental health is not simply about trying to rid ourselves of things like negative thoughts. So much of mental health has to do with the day-to-day infusion of positive practices. Which leads us into the importance of fun, pleasure, play, and flow as essential elements of mental health and a joyful life. We'll talk about some simple ways to embrace your fun nature and tap into more flowing states that nourish your body and mind.
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Sources and Notes:
- Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Your Joy Lab membership also includes our NMH Community!
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Full transcript available here.
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Please see our terms for more information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Joy Lab Podcast,where we help you uncover and
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr.
Henry Emmons and Dr.
Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix ofsoulful and scientifically sound tools to
spark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment with morejoy, combine this podcast with the full
Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.Coach.
(00:26):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmons.
And I'm Aimee Prasek.
So welcome to Joy Lab, where we infusescience with soul to help you uncover joy.
And to do that, we focus on creatingpositive emotions that become the
building blocks of a joyful life.
So the theme of this episode is fun,pleasure, play, flow, the good stuff
(00:50):
in life, the things we all want, butthat many of us don't get enough of.
I'm one of those people, Aimee.
At least I was for much of my life.
I'll say a little more about thatlater, but first I have to note
that fun might seem like kind of alightweight topic compared to some
(01:10):
of our other themes like hope or awe.
Yeah, it, it might seem lightweight,but I'm hoping we can, uh,
convince everyone otherwise.
And at Joy Lab, we, we takefun like super seriously.
Seriously, it is an essential elementof joy, just like our other elements.
(01:30):
That's right.
It is both a manifestation of joy andit's something that might create joy.
So when we feel joyful,everything seems fun.
When we don't feel joyful, doing some kindof fun thing might actually get us there.
Yeah, it's that virtuous cycleor the upward spiral that we talk
(01:53):
about so much here at Joy Lab.
And practicing fun is likepretty much the most direct way
to get a positive spiral going.
So we don't think we need toteach you how to have fun.
You already know how to do that.
It's just as natural as breathing.
I would go so far as to say that Whateveryou're doing, can be fun, so long as
(02:19):
your thinking doesn't get in the way.
However, if you're like me and a lotof other people I know, that's the rub.
Our own thinking orperceptions get in the way.
I'll admit it, I am no expert athaving fun, but I am kind of an
expert at getting in my own way.
(02:41):
And I am learning how to get out of my ownway, but I think we might have a resident
expert on fun right here in Joy Lab.
Aimee, am I reading too much intothis, or do you already know the
secret for how to enjoy life?
Well, I do hope I spread fun.
(03:02):
I am, uh, I'm pretty much a silly person.
I think I've been asked or instructeda few times to be more serious.
But I think, um, one of my secretshas been to really show up in
life, whether professionally orpersonally, pretty much the same.
And I know that can be sortof a privileged option.
(03:22):
And at the same time, it has also cost mesome professional roles, like not enough
employers understand the value of fun.
And letting folks show up as they are.
Um, but on that note, even thoughI seem like a fun loving human,
most days, it isn't always easyto maintain that piece of me.
So sort of, as we just noted, it actuallytakes practice and there are barriers.
(03:46):
And particularly, it seems like there's somuch pressure to be busy, to be hustling,
to be productive, to put on thesemasks for all our different audiences.
And this idea that having fun is likeeither irresponsible or it's sort of
only acceptable in the extreme, likethis work hard, play hard mentality.
(04:08):
I only got the first halfof that message, work hard.
Of course, I was a kid once, and likeall kids, I imagine, I played a lot.
I don't really know when that changedor how it changed, but I am pretty sure
by the time I was 15 or 16, I felt andacted a lot like a 50 year old man.
(04:33):
I was just so responsible.
I was able to enjoy things, but overallI was pretty serious and pretty driven.
I just got so focused on academic successthat I learned to set fun aside, or
as they say, to delay gratification.
(04:55):
Now on the positive side, beingable to delay gratification did
help me survive my medical training.
But it's also a great wayto turn into a workaholic.
Yeah, I think your story issimilar to so many of us.
And it really speaks to me and Ithink why I take fun so seriously.
(05:19):
And it's really, Because, Iwitnessed my dad's sort of work fun
imbalance for many years growing up.
Maybe other folks havehad this experience.
My dad worked so hard all thetime, and he hated, hated his job.
And so without offering any time tofill his tank, so to speak, fun and
(05:42):
joy really began to dry up in his life.
And laughter became much more uncommon.
But he worked right, more and morehours, sort of convinced that more
money would come, which would, asthe American Story of success claims
would like solve all his problems.
(06:02):
And the idea that possessionsare sort of the medicine, uh,
to fill that emptiness within.
But it didn't work.
And he died actually at 52.
And all this overworking, um, his constanthustle to accumulate more really left
him sort of evaporated in a way, and alot of, of who he was because so much
(06:27):
was focused on the external was sortof quickly swept away when he died.
And now I'm sort of sharing just asnapshot, of course, of a wonderful human.
My dad was a super fascinating guy.
But I think it's alsoevidence that,,and we all know this, you just cannot
function well without good fuel.
(06:50):
Nobody can.
We all need good food, cleanwater, movement, fresh air,
sunshine, moonlight, and fun!
And all the other elementsthat we work on in Joy Lab.
You need those too, but seriously!
You need to have fun tofuel your inner life.
Well, I can tell you getting outof that workaholic pattern is hard.
(07:14):
It's really hard.
But it's not the only obstacle to fun.
There's a ton of them.
According to cognitive behavioraltherapy, the primary enemy
of fun is one word, should.
As in, I should do that.
I should be this.
(07:34):
Now, there are some things in life thatprobably we should do, so we're not
suggesting a life with no responsibility.
But once again, there is a middleway with just the right amount of
duty and responsibility that can liveright alongside fun and pleasure.
(07:57):
So whatever is blocking you from fullyenjoying your life, if you've been
doing it for years, it might takea while to open yourself up again.
That was certainly true for me.
But, to a large degree,I have done just that.
Yeah, I think you're a goodmodel for the middle way.
(08:20):
Certainly for me, Henry.
But you're right, it's so hard.
Those shoulds are super sneaky.
They're convincing, right?
And an excess, sort of as you noted,they take us out of, uh, a word I
like, flow, and I think maybe that'sanother one of my fun secrets, that
idea of flow being the state of fun.
(08:42):
So this idea of flow, maybe folks who arelike, I shouldn't be doing that, I'm too
old for fun, or I don't have time for fun,they might sort of dig this idea of flow.
So fun really puts us in the state offlow, and that state of flow is so healing
and joy giving and it's productive too.
(09:03):
So there's a psychologist, Let metry to say his name correctly, Mihaly
Csikszentmihalyi he's done a lotof work on this concept of flow.
He literally wrote the book on flow.
But he describes flowas feeling fully alive.
It's like when we're totally involvedwith what we're doing, and feeling
(09:25):
in harmony with what's around us.
It's sort of when your actions and yourawareness merge and you're not worried
about failure because you feel equippedand sort of up for the challenge.
And your self consciousness sort ofdisappears and you feel more connected.
Those are all amazing things.
(09:46):
And in that state, right, that state offlow, that is the reward, that state.
It's not focused on anyother external award.
It's really your presence in that moment.
Um, and it's nourishing.
And you might even be exhaustedwhen you're done with that activity
that you've sort of given your fullattention to, but you feel full.
(10:06):
And so, um, the psychologist,Csikszentmihalyi, also notes that it's
easiest to really access flow with funactivities and things like singing, doing
sports, exercising, sort of working on aproject or a hobby that you really love,
talking with others, reading a good book.
So there are really like tons of waysto, to have fun and to be in flow.
(10:31):
But of course, nonetheless, Henry, likeyou said, there are more obstacles than
just sort of overworking and some reallyare or feel outside of our control.
But really, if you're not havingfun, if you're not feeling in flow
at times and able to enjoy yourlife, then something's not right.
(10:51):
It's sort of likely that maybeyou're holding on to something
that needs to be let go.
And I think we all deserve, I know this,we all need to have fun, to be in flow.
And so it's important no matter theobstacles or systems in your way, and
there are many, it's necessary to createsome space for your fuel to come in.
(11:15):
So if you feel stuck becauseyou have a blockage, right?
And you're sort of reinforcingthat blockage again and again,
then how do you get out of it?
Henry, I think you've probablygot an answer for this.
You want me to answer this, huh?
Okay.
(11:37):
Here's a story that I love that Ithink gives us a sort of road map
for how to get out of stuck places.
It's called an autobiographyin five short chapters.
And it was written by awoman named Portia Nelson.
So I'm going to read itbecause it's not very long.
(12:00):
Chapter one.
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost.
I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
(12:22):
Chapter Two I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the sameplace, but it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
(12:45):
Chapter 3.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in.
It's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
(13:07):
I get out immediately.
Chapter 4.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
And chapter five, Iwalk down another street.
I love that story.
(13:27):
Um, it's funny because it's true.
I like that it doesn'ttake life too seriously.
It sort of pokes fun at themesses we find ourselves in.
And I think most people canrecognize themselves in it.
I certainly know that I do.
And I bet most of our listeners can seethemselves, right, at one time or another,
(13:49):
stuck in one of those five chapters.
Yeah, I was stuck in chaptersone and two for a long time.
And I actually thinkthat's pretty typical.
You know, we can spend a long timein those earlier stages, until we
start to see our role in it, andtake more ownership of our lives.
(14:10):
I used to blame my medical trainingfor turning me into a workaholic, but
the truth is, the seeds for that werethere at least by my adolescence.
Nobody else did that to me.
I did it unknowingly, innocently,but still, I did it to myself.
(14:31):
And I don't think I could havegotten to that understanding without
adding more awareness to my life.
When I finally started to be awitness to my own life, I could
see that maybe I didn't need tostep into that same hole again.
Right.
That's another great reason to engagein some kind of mindfulness practice
(14:57):
like we do in the Joy Lab program.
It can give us the tools to see what'sreally going on, so we have at least
a fighting chance to make a wiserchoice and move onto the next stage.
Otherwise, we sort of keep stepping inthe same hole again and again and never
(15:21):
realizing why life feels so hard or ableto see what's blocking our access to fun.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, I think there also aresome good lessons from the world
of research that can help bringmore fun back into our lives.
(15:42):
So I remember, for example, years agoreading about a study where they took
a group of old folks to some kindof retreat center just to separate
themselves from their lives as usual,and then to see what happened when
they started acting young again.
Now, Aimee, I think you, since you, yougeek out on this stuff, I think you have
(16:05):
more details to share on this study.
And I'm afraid one of them isgoing to be that the participants
actually weren't really that old.
They were my age when they did that.
Is that, is that right?
Nope, uh, they were all older than you,but came out of the study feeling younger.
(16:25):
So, maybe there's a secret here we canall discover to feel our youngest self.
So, um, as an aside, you know, likeyou said, I geek out on this stuff.
When I feel in flow, somethingI do for fun to bring me to that
state of flow, I read research.
So, right, there are azillion ways to have fun.
Don't let anybody tellyou your way isn't good.
(16:47):
Anyway, so yeah, this issuch an inspiring study.
It's research, uh, it's researcherEllen Langer's work and she called
it the counterclockwise study.
This was done back in 1981.
So she took a small group, justeight guys, all in their seventies
and created like a five day timewarp where everything, and I mean,
(17:09):
everything surrounding them sort ofmade them feel like it was the year
1959 and they were 20 years younger.
So there were papers and magazines layingaround that had the 1959 date on them.
There was sort of, you know, all thedecor, there was music and radio was
playing, but it was productions, pulledfrom 1959 music from that time period.
(17:32):
And they even had pictures ofthemselves visible, but the
pictures were of themselves 20years ago of these participants.
So now before these guys stepback into this 1959 capsule, they
were assessed on some measures.
It was dexterity, uh, grip strength,flexibility, hearing and vision,
memory, cognition, sort of allthe usual getting older tests.
(17:57):
And then they were told to not onlyreminisce about that time period when they
were 20 years younger, but to actually tryto be that person they were 20 years ago.
You know, act like they did then,think like they did then, even
talk in the present tense about thepast events that they were seeing
(18:17):
in this little capsule, right?
So the movies, the sports, news,the artifacts in the room, sort
of talking about those things asif they were happening right then.
That is so cool.
Um, but I noticed that all of theactivities these folks did were
basically fun, you know, there wasrecreational, it was connection.
(18:38):
I don't think any of ithad much to do with work.
Yeah, they, they were having fun.
They weren't just laying around though.
Right.
So fun is sort of this active processthat engages so many of our senses
oftentimes and, and with the study,the staff even treated the participants
like they were 20 years younger as well.
So everything coming in to their systemwas telling them it was 20 years prior.
(19:01):
They didn't, the staff didn't even helpthese men, when they had to go up a flight
of stairs to bring their luggage in.
They just said, you know,take it up in shifts.
So these arthritic guys witharthritis in their knees were
taking their shirts up one by one.
So there was also a control group.
They came for five daysas well and stayed.
(19:22):
But were just told toreminisce about the past.
That's all they did.
All right, so I want to, I wantto share what happened here.
The 1959 group, it did better.
Like, way better.
Their flexibility and dexterity improved.
They sat taller.
Independent judges said theylooked younger and get this,
(19:44):
their eyesight improved.
And now here's a, here's anotherbit I love that I like to share.
The 1959 group that at first was like,how am I going to get my luggage up these
stairs because of my aching knees, right?
They ended their time in the studywith an impromptu touch football game.
This was not planned by the researchers.
(20:04):
These eight guys just started afootball game before they left.
So this study was replicatedwith another small group in 2010
and the results were the same.
And so I know you could say, well, thisis just a small group and there's so many
variables, but it kind of doesn't matter.
These folks, whatever their motivation,whatever the most impactful cause,
(20:27):
they let go of their shoulds.
And they had fun.
They had fun together.
And their brains, bodies, and theirmoods, changed in just five days.
That's amazing.
I think it's a great lesson in perception.
That what we experience as joyful or funhas a lot to do with how we see things.
(20:51):
You know, even concrete measuresof aging seem to be affected by
how we think about ourselves.
So, uh, here's anotherstudy that I really love.
It's actually a series of studies.
But, though, these were done notwith humans, but with lab animals,
which essentially means lab rats.
So they were looking at several importantfactors in, neurogenesis, and that refers
(21:15):
to the creation of new brain cells.
So this is the ability that we all havethat stays with us throughout our lives
to replace neurons that are lost due toaging, injury, or just normal metabolism.
So, this happens in all parts of the body.
Some cells die and then they're replacedwith new ones, but obviously, when it
(21:38):
comes to brain cells, we want these newones to be healthy and to survive, and
for that to happen, they have to connectrobustly with a lot of other brain cells.
I love that, pointing out herethat just like neurons, humans,
we're wired for connection, right?
We need connections to thrive.
(22:00):
Oh, I agree.
So the factors for growth of new neuronsthat they were looking at are these:
exercise, diet, an enriched environment,social connection, and serotonin levels.
Now age is also important becauseit is true that as we age, we
(22:21):
do not make as many of these newbrain cells, but stay tuned because
that is not the end of the story.
So briefly, each of these factorssupports a brain chemical known
as BDNF which I think of asmiracle grow for these neurons.
So one researcher wondered whichof all these factors is the
(22:46):
most important for neurogenesis.
And again, they are exercise,diet, an enriched environment,
serotonin, social connection.
and age.
So what they did is they divided theminto old and young groups and they tested
them against all these other variables.
And which of them do you think had themost remarkable growth of new neurons?
(23:12):
I'm going to guess it was theold rats that played touch
football with the other old rats.
Exactly.
Now remember, Aimee, you are alsoaging, so you should keep playing
and hanging out with old people likeme and I think you'll be alright.
Yeah, it's true.
And I'm so grateful to you,Henry, and for Joy Lab, right?
(23:34):
We work really hard, but a lot ofthe time it doesn't feel like work.
It feels like fun.
That's sort of the Holygrail of work, right?
Sort of melding meaning andpurpose with play and fun.
Ooh, I like that.
Melding meaning andpurpose with play and fun.
So, you know, you shared, Aimee,in an earlier podcast that
(23:54):
you've had about 50 jobs already.
So it makes me think that it'simportant for you, as it is for me
and a lot of people, that you get morefrom work than just the usual stuff.
So, going back to that autobiography infive short chapters, I think one of the
key things key lessons, and you saidthis earlier, Aimee, about, about you as
(24:15):
well, one of the keys is authenticity.
It's one of my favorite topics.
Well, maybe we'll takethat on in the future.
So in each of my sort of fumblingattempts to stop stepping into my
favorite holes, I've become morecomfortable just bringing my real self
(24:36):
to all parts of my life, including work.
The more we become ourselves, themore we feel good in our own skin, the
more we can open ourselves up to fun.
When we have that inner freedom, then fun,just like joy, arises just spontaneously.
(24:56):
Hmm, I think it was Thomas Merton,maybe, who wrote, "Finally, I am coming
to the conclusion that my highestambition is to be what I already am."
I love that authenticity, right?
So at our core, we are all fun beings.
As we've talked about here, we'reall wired for and need to play.
(25:18):
So to sort of tie this up, I'm going toclose, I think, by quoting Sigmund Freud.
Who is like a far cry from ourusual Mary Oliver or Rumi quotes.
Um,
so I'll paraphrase them actually.
Uh, Freud said that happiness requirestwo things: to love and to work.
(25:39):
But I, you know, at Joy Lab, Ithink we'd say something is missing.
So here's, here's our Joy Lab version.
To be happy, you need tolove, to work and to play.
So we hope you'll join us in thefull Joy Lab program where we have
fun as we work on our inner lives.
We work on letting go of those shouldsso that we can be free enough to
(26:03):
someday walk down another street.
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
(26:24):
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
Welcome to the Joy Lab Podcast,where we help you uncover and
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr.
Henry Emmons and Dr.
Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix ofsoulful and scientifically sound tools to
spark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment with morejoy, combine this podcast with the full
Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.Coach.
(00:26):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmons.
And I'm Aimee Prasek.
So welcome to Joy Lab, where we infusescience with soul to help you uncover joy.
And to do that, we focus on creatingpositive emotions that become the
building blocks of a joyful life.
So the theme of this episode is fun,pleasure, play, flow, the good stuff
(00:50):
in life, the things we all want, butthat many of us don't get enough of.
I'm one of those people, Aimee.
At least I was for much of my life.
I'll say a little more about thatlater, but first I have to note
that fun might seem like kind of alightweight topic compared to some
(01:10):
of our other themes like hope or awe.
Yeah, it, it might seem lightweight,but I'm hoping we can, uh,
convince everyone otherwise.
And at Joy Lab, we, we takefun like super seriously.
Seriously, it is an essential elementof joy, just like our other elements.
(01:30):
That's right.
It is both a manifestation of joy andit's something that might create joy.
So when we feel joyful,everything seems fun.
When we don't feel joyful, doing some kindof fun thing might actually get us there.
Yeah, it's that virtuous cycleor the upward spiral that we talk
(01:53):
about so much here at Joy Lab.
And practicing fun is likepretty much the most direct way
to get a positive spiral going.
So we don't think we need toteach you how to have fun.
You already know how to do that.
It's just as natural as breathing.
I would go so far as to say that Whateveryou're doing, can be fun, so long as
(02:19):
your thinking doesn't get in the way.
However, if you're like me and a lotof other people I know, that's the rub.
Our own thinking orperceptions get in the way.
I'll admit it, I am no expert athaving fun, but I am kind of an
expert at getting in my own way.
(02:41):
And I am learning how to get out of my ownway, but I think we might have a resident
expert on fun right here in Joy Lab.
Aimee, am I reading too much intothis, or do you already know the
secret for how to enjoy life?
Well, I do hope I spread fun.
(03:02):
I am, uh, I'm pretty much a silly person.
I think I've been asked or instructeda few times to be more serious.
But I think, um, one of my secretshas been to really show up in
life, whether professionally orpersonally, pretty much the same.
And I know that can be sortof a privileged option.
(03:22):
And at the same time, it has also cost mesome professional roles, like not enough
employers understand the value of fun.
And letting folks show up as they are.
Um, but on that note, even thoughI seem like a fun loving human,
most days, it isn't always easyto maintain that piece of me.
So sort of, as we just noted, it actuallytakes practice and there are barriers.
(03:46):
And particularly, it seems like there's somuch pressure to be busy, to be hustling,
to be productive, to put on thesemasks for all our different audiences.
And this idea that having fun is likeeither irresponsible or it's sort of
only acceptable in the extreme, likethis work hard, play hard mentality.
(04:08):
I only got the first halfof that message, work hard.
Of course, I was a kid once, and likeall kids, I imagine, I played a lot.
I don't really know when that changedor how it changed, but I am pretty sure
by the time I was 15 or 16, I felt andacted a lot like a 50 year old man.
(04:33):
I was just so responsible.
I was able to enjoy things, but overallI was pretty serious and pretty driven.
I just got so focused on academic successthat I learned to set fun aside, or
as they say, to delay gratification.
(04:55):
Now on the positive side, beingable to delay gratification did
help me survive my medical training.
But it's also a great wayto turn into a workaholic.
Yeah, I think your story issimilar to so many of us.
And it really speaks to me and Ithink why I take fun so seriously.
(05:19):
And it's really, Because, Iwitnessed my dad's sort of work fun
imbalance for many years growing up.
Maybe other folks havehad this experience.
My dad worked so hard all thetime, and he hated, hated his job.
And so without offering any time tofill his tank, so to speak, fun and
(05:42):
joy really began to dry up in his life.
And laughter became much more uncommon.
But he worked right, more and morehours, sort of convinced that more
money would come, which would, asthe American Story of success claims
would like solve all his problems.
(06:02):
And the idea that possessionsare sort of the medicine, uh,
to fill that emptiness within.
But it didn't work.
And he died actually at 52.
And all this overworking, um, his constanthustle to accumulate more really left
him sort of evaporated in a way, and alot of, of who he was because so much
(06:27):
was focused on the external was sortof quickly swept away when he died.
And now I'm sort of sharing just asnapshot, of course, of a wonderful human.
My dad was a super fascinating guy.
But I think it's alsoevidence that,,and we all know this, you just cannot
function well without good fuel.
(06:50):
Nobody can.
We all need good food, cleanwater, movement, fresh air,
sunshine, moonlight, and fun!
And all the other elementsthat we work on in Joy Lab.
You need those too, but seriously!
You need to have fun tofuel your inner life.
Well, I can tell you getting outof that workaholic pattern is hard.
(07:14):
It's really hard.
But it's not the only obstacle to fun.
There's a ton of them.
According to cognitive behavioraltherapy, the primary enemy
of fun is one word, should.
As in, I should do that.
I should be this.
(07:34):
Now, there are some things in life thatprobably we should do, so we're not
suggesting a life with no responsibility.
But once again, there is a middleway with just the right amount of
duty and responsibility that can liveright alongside fun and pleasure.
(07:57):
So whatever is blocking you from fullyenjoying your life, if you've been
doing it for years, it might takea while to open yourself up again.
That was certainly true for me.
But, to a large degree,I have done just that.
Yeah, I think you're a goodmodel for the middle way.
(08:20):
Certainly for me, Henry.
But you're right, it's so hard.
Those shoulds are super sneaky.
They're convincing, right?
And an excess, sort of as you noted,they take us out of, uh, a word I
like, flow, and I think maybe that'sanother one of my fun secrets, that
idea of flow being the state of fun.
(08:42):
So this idea of flow, maybe folks who arelike, I shouldn't be doing that, I'm too
old for fun, or I don't have time for fun,they might sort of dig this idea of flow.
So fun really puts us in the state offlow, and that state of flow is so healing
and joy giving and it's productive too.
(09:03):
So there's a psychologist, Let metry to say his name correctly, Mihaly
Csikszentmihalyi he's done a lotof work on this concept of flow.
He literally wrote the book on flow.
But he describes flowas feeling fully alive.
It's like when we're totally involvedwith what we're doing, and feeling
(09:25):
in harmony with what's around us.
It's sort of when your actions and yourawareness merge and you're not worried
about failure because you feel equippedand sort of up for the challenge.
And your self consciousness sort ofdisappears and you feel more connected.
Those are all amazing things.
(09:46):
And in that state, right, that state offlow, that is the reward, that state.
It's not focused on anyother external award.
It's really your presence in that moment.
Um, and it's nourishing.
And you might even be exhaustedwhen you're done with that activity
that you've sort of given your fullattention to, but you feel full.
(10:06):
And so, um, the psychologist,Csikszentmihalyi, also notes that it's
easiest to really access flow with funactivities and things like singing, doing
sports, exercising, sort of working on aproject or a hobby that you really love,
talking with others, reading a good book.
So there are really like tons of waysto, to have fun and to be in flow.
(10:31):
But of course, nonetheless, Henry, likeyou said, there are more obstacles than
just sort of overworking and some reallyare or feel outside of our control.
But really, if you're not havingfun, if you're not feeling in flow
at times and able to enjoy yourlife, then something's not right.
(10:51):
It's sort of likely that maybeyou're holding on to something
that needs to be let go.
And I think we all deserve, I know this,we all need to have fun, to be in flow.
And so it's important no matter theobstacles or systems in your way, and
there are many, it's necessary to createsome space for your fuel to come in.
(11:15):
So if you feel stuck becauseyou have a blockage, right?
And you're sort of reinforcingthat blockage again and again,
then how do you get out of it?
Henry, I think you've probablygot an answer for this.
You want me to answer this, huh?
Okay.
(11:37):
Here's a story that I love that Ithink gives us a sort of road map
for how to get out of stuck places.
It's called an autobiographyin five short chapters.
And it was written by awoman named Portia Nelson.
So I'm going to read itbecause it's not very long.
(12:00):
Chapter one.
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost.
I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
(12:22):
Chapter Two I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the sameplace, but it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
(12:45):
Chapter 3.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in.
It's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
(13:07):
I get out immediately.
Chapter 4.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
And chapter five, Iwalk down another street.
I love that story.
(13:27):
Um, it's funny because it's true.
I like that it doesn'ttake life too seriously.
It sort of pokes fun at themesses we find ourselves in.
And I think most people canrecognize themselves in it.
I certainly know that I do.
And I bet most of our listeners can seethemselves, right, at one time or another,
(13:49):
stuck in one of those five chapters.
Yeah, I was stuck in chaptersone and two for a long time.
And I actually thinkthat's pretty typical.
You know, we can spend a long timein those earlier stages, until we
start to see our role in it, andtake more ownership of our lives.
(14:10):
I used to blame my medical trainingfor turning me into a workaholic, but
the truth is, the seeds for that werethere at least by my adolescence.
Nobody else did that to me.
I did it unknowingly, innocently,but still, I did it to myself.
(14:31):
And I don't think I could havegotten to that understanding without
adding more awareness to my life.
When I finally started to be awitness to my own life, I could
see that maybe I didn't need tostep into that same hole again.
Right.
That's another great reason to engagein some kind of mindfulness practice
(14:57):
like we do in the Joy Lab program.
It can give us the tools to see what'sreally going on, so we have at least
a fighting chance to make a wiserchoice and move onto the next stage.
Otherwise, we sort of keep stepping inthe same hole again and again and never
(15:21):
realizing why life feels so hard or ableto see what's blocking our access to fun.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, I think there also aresome good lessons from the world
of research that can help bringmore fun back into our lives.
(15:42):
So I remember, for example, years agoreading about a study where they took
a group of old folks to some kindof retreat center just to separate
themselves from their lives as usual,and then to see what happened when
they started acting young again.
Now, Aimee, I think you, since you, yougeek out on this stuff, I think you have
(16:05):
more details to share on this study.
And I'm afraid one of them isgoing to be that the participants
actually weren't really that old.
They were my age when they did that.
Is that, is that right?
Nope, uh, they were all older than you,but came out of the study feeling younger.
(16:25):
So, maybe there's a secret here we canall discover to feel our youngest self.
So, um, as an aside, you know, likeyou said, I geek out on this stuff.
When I feel in flow, somethingI do for fun to bring me to that
state of flow, I read research.
So, right, there are azillion ways to have fun.
Don't let anybody tellyou your way isn't good.
(16:47):
Anyway, so yeah, this issuch an inspiring study.
It's research, uh, it's researcherEllen Langer's work and she called
it the counterclockwise study.
This was done back in 1981.
So she took a small group, justeight guys, all in their seventies
and created like a five day timewarp where everything, and I mean,
(17:09):
everything surrounding them sort ofmade them feel like it was the year
1959 and they were 20 years younger.
So there were papers and magazines layingaround that had the 1959 date on them.
There was sort of, you know, all thedecor, there was music and radio was
playing, but it was productions, pulledfrom 1959 music from that time period.
(17:32):
And they even had pictures ofthemselves visible, but the
pictures were of themselves 20years ago of these participants.
So now before these guys stepback into this 1959 capsule, they
were assessed on some measures.
It was dexterity, uh, grip strength,flexibility, hearing and vision,
memory, cognition, sort of allthe usual getting older tests.
(17:57):
And then they were told to not onlyreminisce about that time period when they
were 20 years younger, but to actually tryto be that person they were 20 years ago.
You know, act like they did then,think like they did then, even
talk in the present tense about thepast events that they were seeing
(18:17):
in this little capsule, right?
So the movies, the sports, news,the artifacts in the room, sort
of talking about those things asif they were happening right then.
That is so cool.
Um, but I noticed that all of theactivities these folks did were
basically fun, you know, there wasrecreational, it was connection.
(18:38):
I don't think any of ithad much to do with work.
Yeah, they, they were having fun.
They weren't just laying around though.
Right.
So fun is sort of this active processthat engages so many of our senses
oftentimes and, and with the study,the staff even treated the participants
like they were 20 years younger as well.
So everything coming in to their systemwas telling them it was 20 years prior.
(19:01):
They didn't, the staff didn't even helpthese men, when they had to go up a flight
of stairs to bring their luggage in.
They just said, you know,take it up in shifts.
So these arthritic guys witharthritis in their knees were
taking their shirts up one by one.
So there was also a control group.
They came for five daysas well and stayed.
(19:22):
But were just told toreminisce about the past.
That's all they did.
All right, so I want to, I wantto share what happened here.
The 1959 group, it did better.
Like, way better.
Their flexibility and dexterity improved.
They sat taller.
Independent judges said theylooked younger and get this,
(19:44):
their eyesight improved.
And now here's a, here's anotherbit I love that I like to share.
The 1959 group that at first was like,how am I going to get my luggage up these
stairs because of my aching knees, right?
They ended their time in the studywith an impromptu touch football game.
This was not planned by the researchers.
(20:04):
These eight guys just started afootball game before they left.
So this study was replicatedwith another small group in 2010
and the results were the same.
And so I know you could say, well, thisis just a small group and there's so many
variables, but it kind of doesn't matter.
These folks, whatever their motivation,whatever the most impactful cause,
(20:27):
they let go of their shoulds.
And they had fun.
They had fun together.
And their brains, bodies, and theirmoods, changed in just five days.
That's amazing.
I think it's a great lesson in perception.
That what we experience as joyful or funhas a lot to do with how we see things.
(20:51):
You know, even concrete measuresof aging seem to be affected by
how we think about ourselves.
So, uh, here's anotherstudy that I really love.
It's actually a series of studies.
But, though, these were done notwith humans, but with lab animals,
which essentially means lab rats.
So they were looking at several importantfactors in, neurogenesis, and that refers
(21:15):
to the creation of new brain cells.
So this is the ability that we all havethat stays with us throughout our lives
to replace neurons that are lost due toaging, injury, or just normal metabolism.
So, this happens in all parts of the body.
Some cells die and then they're replacedwith new ones, but obviously, when it
(21:38):
comes to brain cells, we want these newones to be healthy and to survive, and
for that to happen, they have to connectrobustly with a lot of other brain cells.
I love that, pointing out herethat just like neurons, humans,
we're wired for connection, right?
We need connections to thrive.
(22:00):
Oh, I agree.
So the factors for growth of new neuronsthat they were looking at are these:
exercise, diet, an enriched environment,social connection, and serotonin levels.
Now age is also important becauseit is true that as we age, we
(22:21):
do not make as many of these newbrain cells, but stay tuned because
that is not the end of the story.
So briefly, each of these factorssupports a brain chemical known
as BDNF which I think of asmiracle grow for these neurons.
So one researcher wondered whichof all these factors is the
(22:46):
most important for neurogenesis.
And again, they are exercise,diet, an enriched environment,
serotonin, social connection.
and age.
So what they did is they divided theminto old and young groups and they tested
them against all these other variables.
And which of them do you think had themost remarkable growth of new neurons?
(23:12):
I'm going to guess it was theold rats that played touch
football with the other old rats.
Exactly.
Now remember, Aimee, you are alsoaging, so you should keep playing
and hanging out with old people likeme and I think you'll be alright.
Yeah, it's true.
And I'm so grateful to you,Henry, and for Joy Lab, right?
(23:34):
We work really hard, but a lot ofthe time it doesn't feel like work.
It feels like fun.
That's sort of the Holygrail of work, right?
Sort of melding meaning andpurpose with play and fun.
Ooh, I like that.
Melding meaning andpurpose with play and fun.
So, you know, you shared, Aimee,in an earlier podcast that
(23:54):
you've had about 50 jobs already.
So it makes me think that it'simportant for you, as it is for me
and a lot of people, that you get morefrom work than just the usual stuff.
So, going back to that autobiography infive short chapters, I think one of the
key things key lessons, and you saidthis earlier, Aimee, about, about you as
(24:15):
well, one of the keys is authenticity.
It's one of my favorite topics.
Well, maybe we'll takethat on in the future.
So in each of my sort of fumblingattempts to stop stepping into my
favorite holes, I've become morecomfortable just bringing my real self
(24:36):
to all parts of my life, including work.
The more we become ourselves, themore we feel good in our own skin, the
more we can open ourselves up to fun.
When we have that inner freedom, then fun,just like joy, arises just spontaneously.
(24:56):
Hmm, I think it was Thomas Merton,maybe, who wrote, "Finally, I am coming
to the conclusion that my highestambition is to be what I already am."
I love that authenticity, right?
So at our core, we are all fun beings.
As we've talked about here, we'reall wired for and need to play.
(25:18):
So to sort of tie this up, I'm going toclose, I think, by quoting Sigmund Freud.
Who is like a far cry from ourusual Mary Oliver or Rumi quotes.
Um,
so I'll paraphrase them actually.
Uh, Freud said that happiness requirestwo things: to love and to work.
(25:39):
But I, you know, at Joy Lab, Ithink we'd say something is missing.
So here's, here's our Joy Lab version.
To be happy, you need tolove, to work and to play.
So we hope you'll join us in thefull Joy Lab program where we have
fun as we work on our inner lives.
We work on letting go of those shouldsso that we can be free enough to
(26:03):
someday walk down another street.
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
(26:24):
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
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