July 16, 2025 • 25 mins
Join us (Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek) as we discuss strategies for awakening through suffering to foster authentic joy. We'll emphasize the challenges of becoming one's true self, acknowledging that life frequently presents opportunities for awakening. We'll also dig into the concept of post-traumatic growth and the importance of awareness, stillness, and openness in navigating life's hardships.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!
Sources and Notes:
- Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
- Portia Nelson: There's a Hole in My Sidewalk (book)
- Related Joy Lab Episodes:
Full transcript here.
Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
(00:26):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmons andwelcome back to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So we are in our month of Awe, andwe are talking about strategies
to help us get in the game of ourlife to tap into our authenticity.
The last two episodes reallygive a good foundation for
(00:47):
what we're getting into here.
So head back there now if you haven't,but if you're like really wanting to be in
this right now, certainly you can go backafter, get sort of a better understanding
of authenticity and some common obstacles.
Today we are getting into our firststrategy that Henry calls the Road Most
Traveled (01:09):
Awakening Through Suffering.
So, Henry, do you wanna start us off?
Walk us through.
Sure.
And, and let me just kinda recap quicklywhat we talked about in those first
couple of episodes about authenticity.
So for folks who haven't heard that yet,well even folks who have, so first of all.
(01:32):
Becoming one's self sounds likethe simplest thing in the world.
Like almost how can I not do that?
I, I am myself, but it is not as easyas it sounds to be truly oneself.
And I think that true self or higherself is constantly evolving too.
(01:54):
It's not a one and done thing.
It's kind of a, a moving target.
And there are just so many things that getin the way, you know, including the, the
masks we that we put on where we're tryingto be someone we're not, the pain that
we're carrying that we maybe are tryingto cover up or suppress or simply just not
deal with, so we just keep carrying it.
(02:17):
The point being that it takes quitea bit to wake us up to true self.
It really it takes quite abit, at least in my experience.
And I think it's the workof a lifetime never stops.
Yeah.
And then another point that we made thatsome might not entirely like to hear or
(02:43):
maybe not even agree with, and that isthat from our perspective, it's possible
to fail at becoming fully ourselves.
We can choose not to do it in other words.
But, here's where we're gettingwhat we're getting into today.
Life has a way of conspiring giving us theopportunities repeatedly to wake us up.
(03:14):
And I really believe this, that aslong as we're living and breathing,
there is still time to awakenand really fully enter our lives.
So, so let me pivot here and talk a littlebit about, about authentic joy, okay.
(03:35):
Because we talk, you know, obviouslywe're, we're talking about joy in Joy
Lab all the time, and we've, we've saidmany times that we're not focused on
toxic positivity or you know, thinkingthat we have to run around being happy
and leaping in the air at the time.
(03:55):
So, so what is authentic joy?
What are we talking about here?
And I believe that truejoy is more than a feeling.
It doesn't mean that we'rehaving a particular emotion.
The emotions come and go.
Some of them we like,some of 'em we don't like.
That's not what this is about, and I dobelieve that living our own lives, being
(04:24):
fully ourselves is a really important partof, of what makes for authentic joy not
trying to be something that we're not.
So in Buddhist psychology, in theory,there's, there's a phrase that
many of you have heard about the10,000 joys and the 10,000 sorrows.
(04:47):
And I like this concept becauseit kind of gets to this point that
in our lives we're given more orless equal measure of these two.
And we often think that the, theone is good and the other is bad.
We want more of the joys.
We wanna avoid the sorrows.
But that's really not whatthis is, is telling us.
(05:09):
It's telling us that life encompassesall of those and we can carry with us a
sense of equanimity, a sense of presence,
a sense of giving and receivinglove no matter what's happening.
And these are some of theimportant building blocks of joy.
(05:33):
But, in terms of our topic fortoday, it is possible for us to
awaken through either of those.
We can awaken through the joy and wecan awaken through the pain or the
sorrow, sadness, loss, what have you.
Any of those things can awaken us.
(05:55):
In my experience, and I think most of youwould agree with this, if you look around
you, the vast majority of human beings,if they are in the process of awakening.
It is through some kind of pain orsuffering because that's what most
of us are carrying and dealing with.
Stress, loss, you name it.
(06:16):
Emotional pain is a great awakener.
It's not something we're recommending.
We're not advocating for this, but it'sgoing to happen to us anyway, obviously.
None of us can avoid pain and loss, we mayas well try to use it to help us awaken.
(06:39):
So with that background, I just wannashare a story and I'm going to read
this so I, so I really get it right.
This is a beautiful little story that Ithink in a very fun way and a very true
way, kind of talks to us about how wemight awaken through pain or suffering.
(06:59):
It's called An Autobiographyin Five Short Chapters.
And I, I feel like I can read it toyou because I got permission to put
it in one of my books by the, estateof the, the author Portia Nelson.
So here's the story.
An Autobiography in Five Short Chapters.
(07:20):
"Chapter one.
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in, I am lost.
I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
(07:41):
Chapter two.
I walk down the same street.
There's a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the sameplace, but it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
(08:06):
Chapter three.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in.
It's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
(08:26):
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.
Chapter four.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
And chapter five.
I walk down another street."
(08:49):
Now, I love that story andit feels so true to me.
Um, How many of us recognize ourselvesin one or more of those chapters?
You know, I think probably we've eachexperienced all of them, but over time,
at least in my life experience, it feelslike after too many times of falling into
(09:13):
the same hole, I do start to wake up.
I do start to see what I'm doing and thatit is something I am responsible for.
And over time I think the biggestnoticeable change is that it just
doesn't take me as long to get out,you know, I can get into a bad mood.
It used to last days maybe longer,and now it might last the rest of
(09:34):
the day, or even just an hour orsometimes just a few minutes and, and
then, you know, gradually learningto take more and more responsibility.
Essentially taking responsibilityfor our own lives and our own inner
experience, to the point that we canchoose something really different.
We can learn to let go of these habitsthat we've created that are at least part
(09:57):
of what causes the, the suffering that weexperience and do it really differently.
Mm, I I love that Autobiographyin Five Short Chapters as well.
And even though it's,it's titled short, that
it can take
Like a long time to, to go aroundthose holes, to get outta those holes.
(10:20):
So, you know, it's not maybe fivedifferent walks, but each chapter
I think is multiple strolls.
Sort of on that note, I think for me it'shelpful to, to think about change, growth
after loss after something tough, trauma,facing something really hard, whatever,
(10:45):
to sort of reframe it as an earthquake.
So I love this sidewalk metaphor.
I'm gonna go with anearthquake now as well.
So a big event happens, or sort of theslowly and suddenly phenomenon where
you realize you're stuck in a holeand it really shakes your foundation.
(11:06):
So stuff comes crumbling down.
Then the dust settles, youlook up and maybe your life
doesn't even look the same.
The way you saw the world orinteracted with the world.
Maybe all of that came crashing downwith a single event or a series of
(11:27):
patterns that led to that realization.
And I've shared this before, thatwhen my dad died when I was 17,
he died of suicide, it was anearthquake for me, a crushing blow.
And the other piece was that whenhe died, my mom was completely
in the dark with their finances.
(11:49):
And so after his death, she quickly cameto realize that we had lost everything.
The bank accounts were drained,the credit cards were maxed.
There was no more life insurance.
We were defaulting on our house, cars,not paying any of the bills, all of it.
So it was really... like, feltlike a literal earthquake.
(12:11):
We went from kind of a swankymillion dollar lake home with a
bunch of stuff, to no place to live.
Everything was sold for extramoney to just get through.
Everything came crashing down and lifedid not look the same the next day.
And I think we all have momentslike this, as you said, Henry.
(12:32):
Details are all different, of course,but we all have moments like this.
We will all have earthquakes in our lives.
And here's my point, I hope, after anearthquake, there's search and rescue,
there's cleanup, there's lots of peoplethat come together to assist, and
(12:52):
then there's planning and rebuilding.
And it's in that messy processwhere I think that growth happens,
kind of what we're getting athere, that healing can happen.
Henry, you said, somethingI think is really important.
Emotional pain is a great awakener.
You didn't say a bad thing thathappens to you is a great awakener.
(13:17):
So the earthquake isn't it.
It's the emotional painand what we do with it.
And I think that speaks to somethingcalled post-traumatic growth.
That I wanna just touch on for a moment.
So we've probably all heard the phenomenonof post-traumatic stress, but that's not
the only outcome after trauma or a badevent or something, growth is an option.
(13:42):
So with post-traumaticgrowth, that's what happens.
We create some kind of positive changeor changes some growth in our life after
something hard- through something hard.
And importantly in post-traumatic growth,the growth really comes from us struggling
(14:02):
to deal with the loss or the event.
Struggling.
That's a important piecein the research on this.
It's in the struggle, so wedon't ignore or shut down.
We assess, we gather some help.
We clean up, we rebuild, we struggle,but we are wired to do this, and it
takes time and attention and effort.
(14:25):
And with post-traumatic growth andawakening, as we're talking about
right now, I think the other piecethat's helpful to know, sort of in
that line of struggle, this process isnot the same as psychological comfort,
which sucks in some ways, right?
I'll link to some great studies, somepapers in the show notes on post-traumatic
(14:48):
growth and this idea, but it is essential.
It is a key piece of this.
Just like that journey to finally walkdown another street, as you noted,
Henry, we're gonna fall in holes.
We're gonna get stuckbefore that new street.
And that struggle, that's the awakening,that's the process of the awakening.
So in a paper from Tedeschi, Park,and Calhoun, they have this great
(15:13):
little blurb that I wanna share.
Here's what they wroteabout post-traumatic growth.
"Growth will not necessarilydecrease pain or increase happiness.
But on the contrary, significant growthmay only occur when it is proceeded by or
when it occurs together with significantamounts subjective distress." So as you
(15:40):
said earlier, I don't think we need tosummon distress and tough stuff to grow,
but we will have those things in our life.
We will have distress.
And if we're facing it and we'restruggling with it, then we're working
into that space of awakening and growth.
(16:02):
And it is a great awakener.
That distress can be a great awakener.
That struggle can be a great awakener.
It doesn't mean that we're failing at it.
So maybe you can get moreinto that though, Henry.
How can we awakenthrough this tough stuff?
Like what are some signposts wecan kind of plan for, look out for?
Well, I think that, I think thatthe tools, the inner abilities, the
(16:28):
skills that we can develop are verysimilar here as the same tools that
we would, we would say help peopleto awaken through joy, let's say.
So we've talked about this, it isthe, essentially it's, it's our model
of how to apply mindfulness in life.
(16:49):
So let me, let me just say, I think thatthere are three essential qualities that
we need in order to awaken and we don'thave to have these perfected, by the way.
Yeah.
We just need a little bit of them, andif we can use them and kind of honor
(17:10):
their place in this process, I thinkthat we get better and better at them.
So here they are, awareness,stillness, and openness.
This sounds a little different fromour, our three part mindfulness.
I want to kind of bring us back to that.
(17:31):
But these are the inner qualities.
Just we have to pay attention.
We do need some degree of equanimityso that it allows us to pay attention
and to feel what we're feeling.
So before we jump into actionand try to do something, we do
(17:51):
need some periods of stillness.
This is something I have justbegun to appreciate more and
more in my life recently.
And then thirdly, we need to stay open.
We need to keep our heart open.
We need to be permeable, which we'vetalked about in our podcasts before.
(18:12):
And that permeability, it allowsthings to enter and things to exit.
It allows us to feel whatever we needto feel, but also to let go of things.
So the, the three steps thatwe often talk about is, the
first is to see clearly what is.
And so whether that you use the exampleof the Autobiography in Five Short
(18:37):
Chapters, or Aimee's example, there's apoint at which there's a recognition and
saying, okay, this is what's happening.
And your, your family was forced todo that really quickly, Aimee, you
know, there was no choice really,but to see that your finances
(18:58):
were just poof, they were gone.
Yeah.
And so that awareness allows for thenext step, which is to be able to face
what's happening, the truth of it.
Without flinching really, you know,maybe you flinch, but you, you still
(19:20):
are able to find a way through and thatreally is the practice of acceptance.
Again, I, I think having awarenessand, and stillness is what allows
for this to be a really full andgenuine experience of acceptance.
And so, I don't know this, but I imaginethat your mom at that stage, Aimee, she
(19:44):
didn't like it, but she absolutely had toaccept this is the reality and so I, or we
need to we need to do things differently.
We gotta take action.
We gotta take somemajor, major steps here.
Yeah.
Which can be really helpful to beforced into action in some points,
but it can also keep you really busy
(20:06):
True,
so that you don't kindof look below the mess.
You just keep kind ofcleaning up the external
True.
damage.
So, yeah, it's sort of likestill have to come back.
True.
So, you know, if at age 17 and in this,this, uh, earthquake of your life, if
you had been able to just have the, justthe capacity for stillness, I think,
(20:32):
you know, it might have, things mighthave gone differently in the years
that followed, but it, it didn't, butyou eventually got there, didn't you?
Yeah.
It took a lot of, sidewalks.
A lot of sidewalks.
Yeah.
Yeah, a lot of cleanup.
An earth, an earthquake will create alot, a lot of holes in the sidewalks.
I found them all you guys.
(20:54):
If there's a lot of deep ones outthere, but yeah, so you know, it
can take a long time that's okay.
Yeah.
And then the third stage of appliedmindfulness is to choose wisely
while listening to our own heart.
So if we're, if we're tryingto do this authentically, that
(21:17):
last part is really important.
Listen to our own heart.
Be able to discern through thisinner guidance that is always there.
We're gonna talk about this quite abit more in a couple of episodes, but,
but it is there if we can listen to it.
(21:37):
And that does require that acceptanceand that stillness that come before it.
Yeah.
And I said, you know, afterthat earthquake I shared that it
took a, a while me to clean up.
I'm still cleaning up, but Ithink what was so important about
(21:59):
that is I did do the work right?
I got into the mess, and I think ifyou're, if you're willing to go there,
even though it might take a while, everyhole I climbed out of I was doing better.
So it wasn't that itwas 10 years of agony.
(22:21):
Every new choice I made supportedmy wellbeing and supported my coming
back to self, my authentic nature.
So it doesn't have to be as terribleas maybe I tend to describe it
at times, but, it is a journey.
(22:44):
So I think the other piece to then kindof close us here as we get ready for
some more strategies in the next episode,next episodes, is that we already have
those abilities, as you said, Henry.
Awareness, acceptance, openness,like that's within our capacity.
There's nothing new that we need.
(23:05):
We can work on that.
We do that here at Joy Lab.
We work on those skills, butthey're already part of us.
So there's no things you need to go buy.
There's no, you know, externalsolution that is hidden from you
that, uh, is not available to you.
It's within us.
So we are empowered.
(23:25):
We are already empowered.
Next episode, we will work on anotherof your superpowers, not just working
through this, path of suffering,but also, walking this path of joy.
So it'll be a nice
reprieve, invitation, another path.
They all come together, to helpus tap into our authenticity.
(23:47):
So be sure to listen in.
And I'm gonna close us withsome wisdom from an author you
may know, Dr. Henry Emmons,
What?
I know, from his book Staying Sharp.
I think it's a great quote to closeus today and also really set us
up for next episode where again,we'll get into that path of joy.
So here it is, "We all have ourstories and we need to honor them.
(24:13):
We need to bring our inner livesout of shadow, into the light of
personal and communal reflection.
We need to live divided no more,and an honest grappling with
our struggles can get us there.
But the path of suffering is not the onlyway to get there, and it is certainly not
the easiest or the most enjoyable way.
(24:36):
There is also the path of joy."
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
(24:57):
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
(00:26):
Hello, I'm Henry Emmons andwelcome back to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So we are in our month of Awe, andwe are talking about strategies
to help us get in the game of ourlife to tap into our authenticity.
The last two episodes reallygive a good foundation for
(00:47):
what we're getting into here.
So head back there now if you haven't,but if you're like really wanting to be in
this right now, certainly you can go backafter, get sort of a better understanding
of authenticity and some common obstacles.
Today we are getting into our firststrategy that Henry calls the Road Most
Traveled (01:09):
Awakening Through Suffering.
So, Henry, do you wanna start us off?
Walk us through.
Sure.
And, and let me just kinda recap quicklywhat we talked about in those first
couple of episodes about authenticity.
So for folks who haven't heard that yet,well even folks who have, so first of all.
(01:32):
Becoming one's self sounds likethe simplest thing in the world.
Like almost how can I not do that?
I, I am myself, but it is not as easyas it sounds to be truly oneself.
And I think that true self or higherself is constantly evolving too.
(01:54):
It's not a one and done thing.
It's kind of a, a moving target.
And there are just so many things that getin the way, you know, including the, the
masks we that we put on where we're tryingto be someone we're not, the pain that
we're carrying that we maybe are tryingto cover up or suppress or simply just not
deal with, so we just keep carrying it.
(02:17):
The point being that it takes quitea bit to wake us up to true self.
It really it takes quite abit, at least in my experience.
And I think it's the workof a lifetime never stops.
Yeah.
And then another point that we made thatsome might not entirely like to hear or
(02:43):
maybe not even agree with, and that isthat from our perspective, it's possible
to fail at becoming fully ourselves.
We can choose not to do it in other words.
But, here's where we're gettingwhat we're getting into today.
Life has a way of conspiring giving us theopportunities repeatedly to wake us up.
(03:14):
And I really believe this, that aslong as we're living and breathing,
there is still time to awakenand really fully enter our lives.
So, so let me pivot here and talk a littlebit about, about authentic joy, okay.
(03:35):
Because we talk, you know, obviouslywe're, we're talking about joy in Joy
Lab all the time, and we've, we've saidmany times that we're not focused on
toxic positivity or you know, thinkingthat we have to run around being happy
and leaping in the air at the time.
(03:55):
So, so what is authentic joy?
What are we talking about here?
And I believe that truejoy is more than a feeling.
It doesn't mean that we'rehaving a particular emotion.
The emotions come and go.
Some of them we like,some of 'em we don't like.
That's not what this is about, and I dobelieve that living our own lives, being
(04:24):
fully ourselves is a really important partof, of what makes for authentic joy not
trying to be something that we're not.
So in Buddhist psychology, in theory,there's, there's a phrase that
many of you have heard about the10,000 joys and the 10,000 sorrows.
(04:47):
And I like this concept becauseit kind of gets to this point that
in our lives we're given more orless equal measure of these two.
And we often think that the, theone is good and the other is bad.
We want more of the joys.
We wanna avoid the sorrows.
But that's really not whatthis is, is telling us.
(05:09):
It's telling us that life encompassesall of those and we can carry with us a
sense of equanimity, a sense of presence,
a sense of giving and receivinglove no matter what's happening.
And these are some of theimportant building blocks of joy.
(05:33):
But, in terms of our topic fortoday, it is possible for us to
awaken through either of those.
We can awaken through the joy and wecan awaken through the pain or the
sorrow, sadness, loss, what have you.
Any of those things can awaken us.
(05:55):
In my experience, and I think most of youwould agree with this, if you look around
you, the vast majority of human beings,if they are in the process of awakening.
It is through some kind of pain orsuffering because that's what most
of us are carrying and dealing with.
Stress, loss, you name it.
(06:16):
Emotional pain is a great awakener.
It's not something we're recommending.
We're not advocating for this, but it'sgoing to happen to us anyway, obviously.
None of us can avoid pain and loss, we mayas well try to use it to help us awaken.
(06:39):
So with that background, I just wannashare a story and I'm going to read
this so I, so I really get it right.
This is a beautiful little story that Ithink in a very fun way and a very true
way, kind of talks to us about how wemight awaken through pain or suffering.
(06:59):
It's called An Autobiographyin Five Short Chapters.
And I, I feel like I can read it toyou because I got permission to put
it in one of my books by the, estateof the, the author Portia Nelson.
So here's the story.
An Autobiography in Five Short Chapters.
(07:20):
"Chapter one.
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in, I am lost.
I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
(07:41):
Chapter two.
I walk down the same street.
There's a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the sameplace, but it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
(08:06):
Chapter three.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in.
It's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
(08:26):
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.
Chapter four.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
And chapter five.
I walk down another street."
(08:49):
Now, I love that story andit feels so true to me.
Um, How many of us recognize ourselvesin one or more of those chapters?
You know, I think probably we've eachexperienced all of them, but over time,
at least in my life experience, it feelslike after too many times of falling into
(09:13):
the same hole, I do start to wake up.
I do start to see what I'm doing and thatit is something I am responsible for.
And over time I think the biggestnoticeable change is that it just
doesn't take me as long to get out,you know, I can get into a bad mood.
It used to last days maybe longer,and now it might last the rest of
(09:34):
the day, or even just an hour orsometimes just a few minutes and, and
then, you know, gradually learningto take more and more responsibility.
Essentially taking responsibilityfor our own lives and our own inner
experience, to the point that we canchoose something really different.
We can learn to let go of these habitsthat we've created that are at least part
(09:57):
of what causes the, the suffering that weexperience and do it really differently.
Mm, I I love that Autobiographyin Five Short Chapters as well.
And even though it's,it's titled short, that
it can take
Like a long time to, to go aroundthose holes, to get outta those holes.
(10:20):
So, you know, it's not maybe fivedifferent walks, but each chapter
I think is multiple strolls.
Sort of on that note, I think for me it'shelpful to, to think about change, growth
after loss after something tough, trauma,facing something really hard, whatever,
(10:45):
to sort of reframe it as an earthquake.
So I love this sidewalk metaphor.
I'm gonna go with anearthquake now as well.
So a big event happens, or sort of theslowly and suddenly phenomenon where
you realize you're stuck in a holeand it really shakes your foundation.
(11:06):
So stuff comes crumbling down.
Then the dust settles, youlook up and maybe your life
doesn't even look the same.
The way you saw the world orinteracted with the world.
Maybe all of that came crashing downwith a single event or a series of
(11:27):
patterns that led to that realization.
And I've shared this before, thatwhen my dad died when I was 17,
he died of suicide, it was anearthquake for me, a crushing blow.
And the other piece was that whenhe died, my mom was completely
in the dark with their finances.
(11:49):
And so after his death, she quickly cameto realize that we had lost everything.
The bank accounts were drained,the credit cards were maxed.
There was no more life insurance.
We were defaulting on our house, cars,not paying any of the bills, all of it.
So it was really... like, feltlike a literal earthquake.
(12:11):
We went from kind of a swankymillion dollar lake home with a
bunch of stuff, to no place to live.
Everything was sold for extramoney to just get through.
Everything came crashing down and lifedid not look the same the next day.
And I think we all have momentslike this, as you said, Henry.
(12:32):
Details are all different, of course,but we all have moments like this.
We will all have earthquakes in our lives.
And here's my point, I hope, after anearthquake, there's search and rescue,
there's cleanup, there's lots of peoplethat come together to assist, and
(12:52):
then there's planning and rebuilding.
And it's in that messy processwhere I think that growth happens,
kind of what we're getting athere, that healing can happen.
Henry, you said, somethingI think is really important.
Emotional pain is a great awakener.
You didn't say a bad thing thathappens to you is a great awakener.
(13:17):
So the earthquake isn't it.
It's the emotional painand what we do with it.
And I think that speaks to somethingcalled post-traumatic growth.
That I wanna just touch on for a moment.
So we've probably all heard the phenomenonof post-traumatic stress, but that's not
the only outcome after trauma or a badevent or something, growth is an option.
(13:42):
So with post-traumaticgrowth, that's what happens.
We create some kind of positive changeor changes some growth in our life after
something hard- through something hard.
And importantly in post-traumatic growth,the growth really comes from us struggling
(14:02):
to deal with the loss or the event.
Struggling.
That's a important piecein the research on this.
It's in the struggle, so wedon't ignore or shut down.
We assess, we gather some help.
We clean up, we rebuild, we struggle,but we are wired to do this, and it
takes time and attention and effort.
(14:25):
And with post-traumatic growth andawakening, as we're talking about
right now, I think the other piecethat's helpful to know, sort of in
that line of struggle, this process isnot the same as psychological comfort,
which sucks in some ways, right?
I'll link to some great studies, somepapers in the show notes on post-traumatic
(14:48):
growth and this idea, but it is essential.
It is a key piece of this.
Just like that journey to finally walkdown another street, as you noted,
Henry, we're gonna fall in holes.
We're gonna get stuckbefore that new street.
And that struggle, that's the awakening,that's the process of the awakening.
So in a paper from Tedeschi, Park,and Calhoun, they have this great
(15:13):
little blurb that I wanna share.
Here's what they wroteabout post-traumatic growth.
"Growth will not necessarilydecrease pain or increase happiness.
But on the contrary, significant growthmay only occur when it is proceeded by or
when it occurs together with significantamounts subjective distress." So as you
(15:40):
said earlier, I don't think we need tosummon distress and tough stuff to grow,
but we will have those things in our life.
We will have distress.
And if we're facing it and we'restruggling with it, then we're working
into that space of awakening and growth.
(16:02):
And it is a great awakener.
That distress can be a great awakener.
That struggle can be a great awakener.
It doesn't mean that we're failing at it.
So maybe you can get moreinto that though, Henry.
How can we awakenthrough this tough stuff?
Like what are some signposts wecan kind of plan for, look out for?
Well, I think that, I think thatthe tools, the inner abilities, the
(16:28):
skills that we can develop are verysimilar here as the same tools that
we would, we would say help peopleto awaken through joy, let's say.
So we've talked about this, it isthe, essentially it's, it's our model
of how to apply mindfulness in life.
(16:49):
So let me, let me just say, I think thatthere are three essential qualities that
we need in order to awaken and we don'thave to have these perfected, by the way.
Yeah.
We just need a little bit of them, andif we can use them and kind of honor
(17:10):
their place in this process, I thinkthat we get better and better at them.
So here they are, awareness,stillness, and openness.
This sounds a little different fromour, our three part mindfulness.
I want to kind of bring us back to that.
(17:31):
But these are the inner qualities.
Just we have to pay attention.
We do need some degree of equanimityso that it allows us to pay attention
and to feel what we're feeling.
So before we jump into actionand try to do something, we do
(17:51):
need some periods of stillness.
This is something I have justbegun to appreciate more and
more in my life recently.
And then thirdly, we need to stay open.
We need to keep our heart open.
We need to be permeable, which we'vetalked about in our podcasts before.
(18:12):
And that permeability, it allowsthings to enter and things to exit.
It allows us to feel whatever we needto feel, but also to let go of things.
So the, the three steps thatwe often talk about is, the
first is to see clearly what is.
And so whether that you use the exampleof the Autobiography in Five Short
(18:37):
Chapters, or Aimee's example, there's apoint at which there's a recognition and
saying, okay, this is what's happening.
And your, your family was forced todo that really quickly, Aimee, you
know, there was no choice really,but to see that your finances
(18:58):
were just poof, they were gone.
Yeah.
And so that awareness allows for thenext step, which is to be able to face
what's happening, the truth of it.
Without flinching really, you know,maybe you flinch, but you, you still
(19:20):
are able to find a way through and thatreally is the practice of acceptance.
Again, I, I think having awarenessand, and stillness is what allows
for this to be a really full andgenuine experience of acceptance.
And so, I don't know this, but I imaginethat your mom at that stage, Aimee, she
(19:44):
didn't like it, but she absolutely had toaccept this is the reality and so I, or we
need to we need to do things differently.
We gotta take action.
We gotta take somemajor, major steps here.
Yeah.
Which can be really helpful to beforced into action in some points,
but it can also keep you really busy
(20:06):
True,
so that you don't kindof look below the mess.
You just keep kind ofcleaning up the external
True.
damage.
So, yeah, it's sort of likestill have to come back.
True.
So, you know, if at age 17 and in this,this, uh, earthquake of your life, if
you had been able to just have the, justthe capacity for stillness, I think,
(20:32):
you know, it might have, things mighthave gone differently in the years
that followed, but it, it didn't, butyou eventually got there, didn't you?
Yeah.
It took a lot of, sidewalks.
A lot of sidewalks.
Yeah.
Yeah, a lot of cleanup.
An earth, an earthquake will create alot, a lot of holes in the sidewalks.
I found them all you guys.
(20:54):
If there's a lot of deep ones outthere, but yeah, so you know, it
can take a long time that's okay.
Yeah.
And then the third stage of appliedmindfulness is to choose wisely
while listening to our own heart.
So if we're, if we're tryingto do this authentically, that
(21:17):
last part is really important.
Listen to our own heart.
Be able to discern through thisinner guidance that is always there.
We're gonna talk about this quite abit more in a couple of episodes, but,
but it is there if we can listen to it.
(21:37):
And that does require that acceptanceand that stillness that come before it.
Yeah.
And I said, you know, afterthat earthquake I shared that it
took a, a while me to clean up.
I'm still cleaning up, but Ithink what was so important about
(21:59):
that is I did do the work right?
I got into the mess, and I think ifyou're, if you're willing to go there,
even though it might take a while, everyhole I climbed out of I was doing better.
So it wasn't that itwas 10 years of agony.
(22:21):
Every new choice I made supportedmy wellbeing and supported my coming
back to self, my authentic nature.
So it doesn't have to be as terribleas maybe I tend to describe it
at times, but, it is a journey.
(22:44):
So I think the other piece to then kindof close us here as we get ready for
some more strategies in the next episode,next episodes, is that we already have
those abilities, as you said, Henry.
Awareness, acceptance, openness,like that's within our capacity.
There's nothing new that we need.
(23:05):
We can work on that.
We do that here at Joy Lab.
We work on those skills, butthey're already part of us.
So there's no things you need to go buy.
There's no, you know, externalsolution that is hidden from you
that, uh, is not available to you.
It's within us.
So we are empowered.
(23:25):
We are already empowered.
Next episode, we will work on anotherof your superpowers, not just working
through this, path of suffering,but also, walking this path of joy.
So it'll be a nice
reprieve, invitation, another path.
They all come together, to helpus tap into our authenticity.
(23:47):
So be sure to listen in.
And I'm gonna close us withsome wisdom from an author you
may know, Dr. Henry Emmons,
What?
I know, from his book Staying Sharp.
I think it's a great quote to closeus today and also really set us
up for next episode where again,we'll get into that path of joy.
So here it is, "We all have ourstories and we need to honor them.
(24:13):
We need to bring our inner livesout of shadow, into the light of
personal and communal reflection.
We need to live divided no more,and an honest grappling with
our struggles can get us there.
But the path of suffering is not the onlyway to get there, and it is certainly not
the easiest or the most enjoyable way.
(24:36):
There is also the path of joy."
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
(24:57):
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
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