May 28, 2025 • 20 mins
Hope might seem hard to come by lately. It's certainly not the vibe being communicated to us in the media anyway. If you resonate and feel like your hope tank is a bit dry, then listen in to this episode. We'll get a bit more clear on hope, understanding it as more than just "wishful thinking," but instead as a dynamic biological and cognitive process that is hard-wired into us for survival. This practical aspect of hope reminds us that with a little electrical check and some TLC, we can get hope to shine again within us.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!
Sources and Notes:
- Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
- Harkin, E.F., Grossman, C.D., Cohen, J.Y. et al. A prospective code for value in the serotonin system. Nature (2025). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-025-08731-7
Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
(00:27):
Hello, I am Henry Emmonsand welcome back to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So, today we are talking about ourElement of Hope, which is often thought
of as having some kind of positiveanticipation or belief about the future.
(00:47):
I think hope and its mosteffective expression is more
about the present moment actually,and the resulting actions.
So that's, that's kind of the sneakpeek of, of how we'll journey today.
So the first thing I want to bring upis this tendency I think many of us
have, which is to think that hope isjust something that lives in our heads.
(01:10):
just in our thoughts.
Maybe we think we have it or we don't.
But either way, there's thistendency to see it as just
something that kind of stays inthe realm of thoughts, oftentimes.
Like, I hope I get a new job.
I have hope that thisnew treatment will work.
But hope is really a dynamiccognitive and biological process.
(01:32):
It goes beyond our thoughts toreally inform how we perceive the
state that we're in and the futureof both our inner and outer world.
And most importantly, hopeinforms the actions we take.
Or the choice of inaction.
So the first important thing for us tounderstand about hope is that it lives
(01:56):
takes shape outside of our thoughts.
And if it doesn't, it's prettymuch just wishful thinking.
So something you just said, Aimeereminds me of our short description
of the essence of mindfulness.
Here it is again, three things.
(02:16):
See what is, accept whatis, and choose wisely.
So,
I would put this discussion of hopebased on your intro squarely into
the category of choosing wisely.
Yeah.
And here's why I think that.
(02:37):
You know, in, in a recent episode,we, we talked about neuroplasticity
and how the brain is wired forchange, but we also talked about
homeostasis, which in a sense is thebrain's resistance to change, right?
So it's just like you said, Aimee, there'sthis dynamic process that's going on
(02:58):
all the time, like a push and a pull.
Will I change or won't I?
And if I do change, will it bein the direction I want it to be?
Will it be towards morewellbeing, more joy, or will it
go in the opposite direction?
So what I believe is that evolvingtoward joy in that direction we want
(03:22):
doesn't happen just because we want to.
Just because we hold somevague notion in our head that,
"I hope I get better." I believeit is built on a constant series of
these small choices, these littlekind of micro decisions that we are
(03:44):
faced with all day, every day, andhow wisely we can make those choices.
So, here's an example of how Ithink this is a biological process.
This thing we're calling Hope so thisis a bit of a stretch maybe, but bear
(04:05):
with me 'cause I think it kind of fits.
So most folks are already familiar withserotonin, the brain chemical that we
often associate with a positive mood.
And after the huge success of serotonindrugs like Prozac and Zoloft, you know,
(04:26):
some 30 years ago when they came out,there has been this belief that still
pretty prevalent today, that depressionoccurs when serotonin levels are low.
And if you boost serotoninwith a medication like Prozac,
then most people feel better.
(04:48):
But that theory that depression iscaused by serotonin depletion has
largely been debunked, or at leastit's not it's not held to be true in
the way that we once thought it was.
The truth really is thatwe don't know exactly.
Yeah, even now we don't know exactlywhat causes depression and we don't
(05:10):
even know exactly what serotonin does.
We believe it's involved withthe experience of pain and
pleasure, and it certainly seemsto have some effect on mood.
But how, how does it impact mood?
So just recently this,there was an article in
(05:30):
the journal, Nature, which is avery, a very prestigious journal
among scientific circles, and Ithink it's shed some light on this.
So as I read this article, the researcherswere trying to understand the role that
serotonin plays, and by doing this,they looked at these areas of the brain
(05:52):
that are considered to be really richin serotonin and what they found is
that they are activated, these serotoninrich areas are activated when, when we
experience a reward, something positive,something that we, we feel is a reward.
Not only that, but these areaswhere, especially activated
(06:17):
if the reward is unexpected.
So if it's sort of a surprise to us.
So, their interpretation, thisis going back to the researchers,
their interpretation is that serotoninhelps us with decision making with exactly
these tiny day-to-day decisions thatmight lead us to some future reward.
(06:44):
Yeah.
And, and I think that might lead useventually to a better, more joyful life.
So, serotonin apparently helps usmake these decisions by creating
a sort of biological code, byplacing value on future rewards.
Not immediate gratification,but future rewards.
(07:07):
So here, I'm gonna quote the,the author for a moment here.
This is how they put it.
"Your brain needs to compute the expectedvalue of the actions you contemplate
and undertake as you interact witha changing world asking, what's the
value of this decision versus thatdecision in that particular environment?
(07:32):
That's a hard problem." And he's right.
That is a hard problem.
Yeah.
And then quoting the them again.
"So what we think serotonin actuallydoes in the brain is encode the expected
value of a particular environmentor course of actions in order to
(07:54):
ultimately guide everyday decisions.
that's such an interestinginterpretation of hope or of serotonin.
But I think that's howI see hope actually.
So when we're open to it, it can help uscompute value, just like in that research,
and then make a decision that supports us.
(08:18):
I'll just say as well, there'sfurther on your point of these
kind of like day-to-day decisions.
There is no shortage of studies thathave found that hope or that having a
more hopeful attitude or perspectiveis beneficial for health outcomes.
Um, inflammation, cardiovascular events,strokes, like pretty much everything.
(08:41):
More hope, better health outcomes.
I think the quick assessment is thathope itself is like the key variable.
It's the thing, the way ofthinking, just thinking that causes
those better health outcomes.
Mm-hmm.
And I just don't think that's the case.
I think it's more about decisions we make,just like we're talking about today, the
(09:04):
actions that we take when we are fueledby a more hopeful belief structure.
Because it is just such apowerful motivating force.
Hope is.
And it's so much more, I think thisis important, so much more effective
than fear as a motivating force.
Hmm.
(09:25):
Fear fueled motivation is reactive.
Yeah.
It's disempowered.
It just keeps us cycling in thestate of like base level distress.
Yeah.
It's more about what wethink we need to avoid.
It's more about fear is moreabout avoidance rather than
going towards something that wethink will give us some good.
(09:48):
I.
Absolutely and approach relatedbehaviors, like you're saying right
there, this ability to go towardis, is like key for motivation, key
for positive health outcomes, thatability to approach and be open to,
so you can see how hope fuels that.
And so I think we actually really,you know, we really crave hope because
(10:09):
of course we wanna feel motivated,we wanna achieve our goals, but even
more than that, we crave a motivationthat offers a reward and a why to
inspire us into action that is approachrelated that I'm going toward something
rather than running away from it.
And when we take action from thatspace, I mean, you can just see
(10:31):
how like the empowered movement offorward, like I am moving forward
towards something we are tellingour system that this effort matters.
It is progressing me.
Um, it can help me to to survive juston that basic level, but also thrive.
And that is our wiring for hope.
I like the late psychologist,Rick Snyder's, definition of hope.
(10:53):
He said, "hope is the perceived capabilityto derive pathways to desired goals and
motivate oneself via agency thinkingto use those pathways." It sounds
really dry when I say it out loud,but I think he's saying, this is how,
this is what kind of why I like thisdefinition that we need to first be open
(11:17):
to and see hope that approach related,expression, we then need to practice
a kind of flexibility of thinking tocreate some new paths on how to get
there, and then we need to walk thosepaths with the belief that it can make a
difference, that we can make a difference.
Because we can.
mm-hmm.
(11:38):
You know, Aimee, I think thisconversation is so timely.
Yes.
You know, it seems to me as thoughcollectively we're living in
a season of despair right now.
Or, or if not despair, at least highlevels of stress and uncertainty.
And fear.
(11:59):
And fear.
Yeah.
As I listen to the larger conversationwe're having in our nation right now,
sometimes it's more of a shoutingmatch than a conversation, but it is
so easy to see that fear has risen up.
Yeah.
And, and how many of us right now arejust being buffeted by these forces
(12:21):
that seem so much larger than us.
It's as if the, the solid groundthat we usually stand on is shaking.
And,
Hmm.
and I hear this, some version of this fromalmost every patient that I talk to and
every, even every friend that I talk with,it's just a very, very challenging time.
(12:42):
And I think that when fear setsin like this, there's almost an
automatic kind of equal reaction.
There's a yearning for hope.
Yeah.
As though it might somehowbalance the scales, you know?
But we need so much more than platitudes.
(13:05):
So much more than pie in the skywishing that things would change.
So I just really like the way thatyou kind of frame this in this
conversation we're having today.
Taking hope from a mere thought tosomething more solid, you know, more
of a, a whole person possibility.
It's not just in the mind, it'sbody, mind, heart, and soul.
(13:29):
And though we haven't talked verymuch about this today, it's not just
in us as separate individuals either.
Hope lives and grows incommunity in connection.
Yeah, that's our social wiring for hope.
I think, and that's a good point.
We like, we know deep down that wewanna be, well then the "big we", our
(13:54):
global community needs to be well.
It's just like survival knowledge.
It's what Darwin foundsurvival of the kindest
Mm.
That was his true finding.
It wasn't survival of the fittest.
Really,
That was.. Yes, I...
I like that.
We've talked about, we've, I thinkwe talked about this a while back.
(14:15):
I'll find it.
It was, I believe Herbert Spencerthat sort of warped his writings into
this idea of survival of the fittest.
Um, And it reminds me also ofa, like maybe a remixed biblical
story that a nun told me.
Hmm.
This was in grad school.
I had a professor who was a nun.
She was brilliant.
And I'm not Catholic, but I nearly joinedthe convent after having class with her.
(14:39):
She was so cool.
Um,
That's funny.
I almost joined amonastery at one point too.
Good.
Were you married at the time
too?
No, I wasn't..
Okay.
It would've been easier.
I was married at the time, so I waslike, uh, Charlie's like, no, I don't
think you should join the convent.
Here I am, still married.
(15:00):
No convent life.
Uh, but anyway, so she was sharing thestory of the seven loaves and few fishes.
I think it's in Matthew.
So as the story is told, about 4,000 folkshad gathered to be healed and listened
to the teachings of Jesus, and they weregathered for three days without food.
(15:22):
And as Jesus was leaving, he wantedto feed the crowd so they wouldn't
leave hungry and the story is that, Ibelieve, the disciples had among them
seven loaves of bread and a few smallfish, which my first question is why
they didn't offer those food up earlier.
They're like, oh, Jesus, I didn'tknow anybody else wanted to eat.
(15:45):
As they're eating behind the tent.
But nonetheless.
So, Jesus takes the food andbreaks it into these baskets, and
had folks pass it around to eat.
And everyone, as the story goes,everyone ate and was filled
and they even had leftovers.
So, the first thought is, thisis a story of how Jesus like
(16:09):
magically multiplied the food.
Right?
Um, but as the nun shared with us.
What if the true lesson, or even whathappened was that the entire group shared?
So folks just took what they neededin that moment with even hope that the
(16:29):
community would work together to findmore food as they needed later on, and
they shared the food so that everyonein that moment would be nourished.
I think that's hope.
I think that's also a miracle.
Exactly, yes, exactly.
Either way, it's a miracle.
Right.
And that we can perform those miracles.
(16:50):
Um, that it wasn't just magic, but thatwe are part of that process of creating
miracles and, and that's our wiring.
And I think that's what hope, maybethat hope is this like miracle
motivator is intended to motivate usinto actions that nourish us and those
around us because we all do better.
(17:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What I, what I'm taking from this,Aimee, is that yes, we are wired for
positive change and hope lives inour brains as kind of this built- in
means to guide our decision making.
And especially these littleday-to-day choices that gradually
(17:35):
add up to a more joyful life.
Yeah.
In a sense, I think all that we reallyneed to do is get out of the way.
And allow this, this biologicalpull to draw us along.
And that just reminds mejust, I just recently started
(17:58):
listening to the Tao Te Ching
oh.
Again, a book, you know, I've readprobably many times over the years, but
Audible is my friend these days and soI was listening to it and you know, the
premise of it, I love being remindedof this is the, this concept of Wu Wei,
(18:21):
which I th I think means doing, not doing.
In other words, it's effortless action,it's allowing ourselves to align with the
flow of our biology, our inner wisdom.
(18:42):
You know, that I thinkis the biology of hope.
Yeah, biology of Hope.
I love that.
And effortless action.
Just to my heart right now.
So let's move from that flow.
So, I hope you're feeling a spark of hope.
(19:05):
If your hope tank has feltdry, folks, you're not alone.
We are a community craving hope and Ithink the message here is that we can
create it, because it's in us, all of us.
So to close our time, I guess I'mon like a Catholic wisdom streak
here for today's episode, althoughyou brought in the Tao Te Ching.
(19:26):
It's good.
We've got everything happening.
But I wanna offer two quotesfrom the late Pope Francis.
I think he communicated hope asa verb, in some really important
ways, and also the essence of joy.
So here they are:
"If we want security,let us give security.
(19:47):
If we want life, let us give life.
If we want opportunities,let us provide opportunities.
The yardstick we use for others will bethe yardstick, which time will use for
us." And the last one (19:59):
"Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures even as
a flicker of light born of our personalcertainty that when everything is said
and done, we are infinitely loved."
(20:20):
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
Be sure to rate and review us whereveryou listen to your favorite podcasts.
Please remember that thiscontent is for informational
and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
(20:43):
and treatment from a medical professional.
Please consult your doctor orother qualified health professional
before beginning any diet change,supplement, or lifestyle program.
Please see our terms for more information.
Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast,where we help you uncover and
(00:03):
foster your most joyful self.
Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr.Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of
soulful and scientifically sound tools tospark your joy, even when it feels dark.
When you're ready to experiment withmore joy, combine this podcast with the
full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
(00:27):
Hello, I am Henry Emmonsand welcome back to Joy Lab.
And I am Aimee Prasek.
So, today we are talking about ourElement of Hope, which is often thought
of as having some kind of positiveanticipation or belief about the future.
(00:47):
I think hope and its mosteffective expression is more
about the present moment actually,and the resulting actions.
So that's, that's kind of the sneakpeek of, of how we'll journey today.
So the first thing I want to bring upis this tendency I think many of us
have, which is to think that hope isjust something that lives in our heads.
(01:10):
just in our thoughts.
Maybe we think we have it or we don't.
But either way, there's thistendency to see it as just
something that kind of stays inthe realm of thoughts, oftentimes.
Like, I hope I get a new job.
I have hope that thisnew treatment will work.
But hope is really a dynamiccognitive and biological process.
(01:32):
It goes beyond our thoughts toreally inform how we perceive the
state that we're in and the futureof both our inner and outer world.
And most importantly, hopeinforms the actions we take.
Or the choice of inaction.
So the first important thing for us tounderstand about hope is that it lives
(01:56):
takes shape outside of our thoughts.
And if it doesn't, it's prettymuch just wishful thinking.
So something you just said, Aimeereminds me of our short description
of the essence of mindfulness.
Here it is again, three things.
(02:16):
See what is, accept whatis, and choose wisely.
So,
I would put this discussion of hopebased on your intro squarely into
the category of choosing wisely.
Yeah.
And here's why I think that.
(02:37):
You know, in, in a recent episode,we, we talked about neuroplasticity
and how the brain is wired forchange, but we also talked about
homeostasis, which in a sense is thebrain's resistance to change, right?
So it's just like you said, Aimee, there'sthis dynamic process that's going on
(02:58):
all the time, like a push and a pull.
Will I change or won't I?
And if I do change, will it bein the direction I want it to be?
Will it be towards morewellbeing, more joy, or will it
go in the opposite direction?
So what I believe is that evolvingtoward joy in that direction we want
(03:22):
doesn't happen just because we want to.
Just because we hold somevague notion in our head that,
"I hope I get better." I believeit is built on a constant series of
these small choices, these littlekind of micro decisions that we are
(03:44):
faced with all day, every day, andhow wisely we can make those choices.
So, here's an example of how Ithink this is a biological process.
This thing we're calling Hope so thisis a bit of a stretch maybe, but bear
(04:05):
with me 'cause I think it kind of fits.
So most folks are already familiar withserotonin, the brain chemical that we
often associate with a positive mood.
And after the huge success of serotonindrugs like Prozac and Zoloft, you know,
(04:26):
some 30 years ago when they came out,there has been this belief that still
pretty prevalent today, that depressionoccurs when serotonin levels are low.
And if you boost serotoninwith a medication like Prozac,
then most people feel better.
(04:48):
But that theory that depression iscaused by serotonin depletion has
largely been debunked, or at leastit's not it's not held to be true in
the way that we once thought it was.
The truth really is thatwe don't know exactly.
Yeah, even now we don't know exactlywhat causes depression and we don't
(05:10):
even know exactly what serotonin does.
We believe it's involved withthe experience of pain and
pleasure, and it certainly seemsto have some effect on mood.
But how, how does it impact mood?
So just recently this,there was an article in
(05:30):
the journal, Nature, which is avery, a very prestigious journal
among scientific circles, and Ithink it's shed some light on this.
So as I read this article, the researcherswere trying to understand the role that
serotonin plays, and by doing this,they looked at these areas of the brain
(05:52):
that are considered to be really richin serotonin and what they found is
that they are activated, these serotoninrich areas are activated when, when we
experience a reward, something positive,something that we, we feel is a reward.
Not only that, but these areaswhere, especially activated
(06:17):
if the reward is unexpected.
So if it's sort of a surprise to us.
So, their interpretation, thisis going back to the researchers,
their interpretation is that serotoninhelps us with decision making with exactly
these tiny day-to-day decisions thatmight lead us to some future reward.
(06:44):
Yeah.
And, and I think that might lead useventually to a better, more joyful life.
So, serotonin apparently helps usmake these decisions by creating
a sort of biological code, byplacing value on future rewards.
Not immediate gratification,but future rewards.
(07:07):
So here, I'm gonna quote the,the author for a moment here.
This is how they put it.
"Your brain needs to compute the expectedvalue of the actions you contemplate
and undertake as you interact witha changing world asking, what's the
value of this decision versus thatdecision in that particular environment?
(07:32):
That's a hard problem." And he's right.
That is a hard problem.
Yeah.
And then quoting the them again.
"So what we think serotonin actuallydoes in the brain is encode the expected
value of a particular environmentor course of actions in order to
(07:54):
ultimately guide everyday decisions.
that's such an interestinginterpretation of hope or of serotonin.
But I think that's howI see hope actually.
So when we're open to it, it can help uscompute value, just like in that research,
and then make a decision that supports us.
(08:18):
I'll just say as well, there'sfurther on your point of these
kind of like day-to-day decisions.
There is no shortage of studies thathave found that hope or that having a
more hopeful attitude or perspectiveis beneficial for health outcomes.
Um, inflammation, cardiovascular events,strokes, like pretty much everything.
(08:41):
More hope, better health outcomes.
I think the quick assessment is thathope itself is like the key variable.
It's the thing, the way ofthinking, just thinking that causes
those better health outcomes.
Mm-hmm.
And I just don't think that's the case.
I think it's more about decisions we make,just like we're talking about today, the
(09:04):
actions that we take when we are fueledby a more hopeful belief structure.
Because it is just such apowerful motivating force.
Hope is.
And it's so much more, I think thisis important, so much more effective
than fear as a motivating force.
Hmm.
(09:25):
Fear fueled motivation is reactive.
Yeah.
It's disempowered.
It just keeps us cycling in thestate of like base level distress.
Yeah.
It's more about what wethink we need to avoid.
It's more about fear is moreabout avoidance rather than
going towards something that wethink will give us some good.
(09:48):
I.
Absolutely and approach relatedbehaviors, like you're saying right
there, this ability to go towardis, is like key for motivation, key
for positive health outcomes, thatability to approach and be open to,
so you can see how hope fuels that.
And so I think we actually really,you know, we really crave hope because
(10:09):
of course we wanna feel motivated,we wanna achieve our goals, but even
more than that, we crave a motivationthat offers a reward and a why to
inspire us into action that is approachrelated that I'm going toward something
rather than running away from it.
And when we take action from thatspace, I mean, you can just see
(10:31):
how like the empowered movement offorward, like I am moving forward
towards something we are tellingour system that this effort matters.
It is progressing me.
Um, it can help me to to survive juston that basic level, but also thrive.
And that is our wiring for hope.
I like the late psychologist,Rick Snyder's, definition of hope.
(10:53):
He said, "hope is the perceived capabilityto derive pathways to desired goals and
motivate oneself via agency thinkingto use those pathways." It sounds
really dry when I say it out loud,but I think he's saying, this is how,
this is what kind of why I like thisdefinition that we need to first be open
(11:17):
to and see hope that approach related,expression, we then need to practice
a kind of flexibility of thinking tocreate some new paths on how to get
there, and then we need to walk thosepaths with the belief that it can make a
difference, that we can make a difference.
Because we can.
mm-hmm.
(11:38):
You know, Aimee, I think thisconversation is so timely.
Yes.
You know, it seems to me as thoughcollectively we're living in
a season of despair right now.
Or, or if not despair, at least highlevels of stress and uncertainty.
And fear.
(11:59):
And fear.
Yeah.
As I listen to the larger conversationwe're having in our nation right now,
sometimes it's more of a shoutingmatch than a conversation, but it is
so easy to see that fear has risen up.
Yeah.
And, and how many of us right now arejust being buffeted by these forces
(12:21):
that seem so much larger than us.
It's as if the, the solid groundthat we usually stand on is shaking.
And,
Hmm.
and I hear this, some version of this fromalmost every patient that I talk to and
every, even every friend that I talk with,it's just a very, very challenging time.
(12:42):
And I think that when fear setsin like this, there's almost an
automatic kind of equal reaction.
There's a yearning for hope.
Yeah.
As though it might somehowbalance the scales, you know?
But we need so much more than platitudes.
(13:05):
So much more than pie in the skywishing that things would change.
So I just really like the way thatyou kind of frame this in this
conversation we're having today.
Taking hope from a mere thought tosomething more solid, you know, more
of a, a whole person possibility.
It's not just in the mind, it'sbody, mind, heart, and soul.
(13:29):
And though we haven't talked verymuch about this today, it's not just
in us as separate individuals either.
Hope lives and grows incommunity in connection.
Yeah, that's our social wiring for hope.
I think, and that's a good point.
We like, we know deep down that wewanna be, well then the "big we", our
(13:54):
global community needs to be well.
It's just like survival knowledge.
It's what Darwin foundsurvival of the kindest
Mm.
That was his true finding.
It wasn't survival of the fittest.
Really,
That was.. Yes, I...
I like that.
We've talked about, we've, I thinkwe talked about this a while back.
(14:15):
I'll find it.
It was, I believe Herbert Spencerthat sort of warped his writings into
this idea of survival of the fittest.
Um, And it reminds me also ofa, like maybe a remixed biblical
story that a nun told me.
Hmm.
This was in grad school.
I had a professor who was a nun.
She was brilliant.
And I'm not Catholic, but I nearly joinedthe convent after having class with her.
(14:39):
She was so cool.
Um,
That's funny.
I almost joined amonastery at one point too.
Good.
Were you married at the time
too?
No, I wasn't..
Okay.
It would've been easier.
I was married at the time, so I waslike, uh, Charlie's like, no, I don't
think you should join the convent.
Here I am, still married.
(15:00):
No convent life.
Uh, but anyway, so she was sharing thestory of the seven loaves and few fishes.
I think it's in Matthew.
So as the story is told, about 4,000 folkshad gathered to be healed and listened
to the teachings of Jesus, and they weregathered for three days without food.
(15:22):
And as Jesus was leaving, he wantedto feed the crowd so they wouldn't
leave hungry and the story is that, Ibelieve, the disciples had among them
seven loaves of bread and a few smallfish, which my first question is why
they didn't offer those food up earlier.
They're like, oh, Jesus, I didn'tknow anybody else wanted to eat.
(15:45):
As they're eating behind the tent.
But nonetheless.
So, Jesus takes the food andbreaks it into these baskets, and
had folks pass it around to eat.
And everyone, as the story goes,everyone ate and was filled
and they even had leftovers.
So, the first thought is, thisis a story of how Jesus like
(16:09):
magically multiplied the food.
Right?
Um, but as the nun shared with us.
What if the true lesson, or even whathappened was that the entire group shared?
So folks just took what they neededin that moment with even hope that the
(16:29):
community would work together to findmore food as they needed later on, and
they shared the food so that everyonein that moment would be nourished.
I think that's hope.
I think that's also a miracle.
Exactly, yes, exactly.
Either way, it's a miracle.
Right.
And that we can perform those miracles.
(16:50):
Um, that it wasn't just magic, but thatwe are part of that process of creating
miracles and, and that's our wiring.
And I think that's what hope, maybethat hope is this like miracle
motivator is intended to motivate usinto actions that nourish us and those
around us because we all do better.
(17:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What I, what I'm taking from this,Aimee, is that yes, we are wired for
positive change and hope lives inour brains as kind of this built- in
means to guide our decision making.
And especially these littleday-to-day choices that gradually
(17:35):
add up to a more joyful life.
Yeah.
In a sense, I think all that we reallyneed to do is get out of the way.
And allow this, this biologicalpull to draw us along.
And that just reminds mejust, I just recently started
(17:58):
listening to the Tao Te Ching
oh.
Again, a book, you know, I've readprobably many times over the years, but
Audible is my friend these days and soI was listening to it and you know, the
premise of it, I love being remindedof this is the, this concept of Wu Wei,
(18:21):
which I th I think means doing, not doing.
In other words, it's effortless action,it's allowing ourselves to align with the
flow of our biology, our inner wisdom.
(18:42):
You know, that I thinkis the biology of hope.
Yeah, biology of Hope.
I love that.
And effortless action.
Just to my heart right now.
So let's move from that flow.
So, I hope you're feeling a spark of hope.
(19:05):
If your hope tank has feltdry, folks, you're not alone.
We are a community craving hope and Ithink the message here is that we can
create it, because it's in us, all of us.
So to close our time, I guess I'mon like a Catholic wisdom streak
here for today's episode, althoughyou brought in the Tao Te Ching.
(19:26):
It's good.
We've got everything happening.
But I wanna offer two quotesfrom the late Pope Francis.
I think he communicated hope asa verb, in some really important
ways, and also the essence of joy.
So here they are:
"If we want security,let us give security.
(19:47):
If we want life, let us give life.
If we want opportunities,let us provide opportunities.
The yardstick we use for others will bethe yardstick, which time will use for
us." And the last one (19:59):
"Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures even as
a flicker of light born of our personalcertainty that when everything is said
and done, we are infinitely loved."
(20:20):
Thank you for listeningto the Joy Lab podcast.
If you enjoy today's show, visitJoyLab.coach to learn more
about the full Joy Lab program.
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and educational purposes only.
It is not intended to provide medicaladvice and is not a replacement for advice
(20:43):
and treatment from a medical professional.
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