#246 | Secret Agent Crowley, Biblical Spies, and Ancient Nephilim Espionage with Joel Thomas - Juan on Juan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome back to another episode of the One podcast, your host.
As always, make sure to check out the show on
all social media platforms at the One on One Podcast
on most social media platforms www dot t j o
j P dot com. Got the Occult this Monday on there,
Also on the Cofi store, Cold This Monday, Homunculus owner's

(01:04):
manual comic book, All that Good Stuff, Patreon dot com,
Slash the One on one podcast, We want to Rock
some merch and all that that's also on the website.
And joining us today is the infamous Joel Thomas.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Dude?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
What's up? Brother? I don't feel like this is actually
like a podcast because we talk a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
So yeah, we really had like two hour conversations on
the phone that could frigging B shows all on their own.
So definitely we do this on the regular. There's a
lot of hours that we haven't recorded that we've just
talked so much about so many things.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I've known you for three years, so like, yeah, probably
one hundred hours of podcast material that we've talked on
the phone.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Has it been that long already, dude?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, dude, it's crazy. I was looking at when I
started doing all this I looked at when I first
met Tony because that's kind of when all this stuff happened,
because man, I really I had no interest in podcasting,
and I laugh. The first two podcasts I ever listened
to were The Confessionals and Isaac Wishop's, and then four

(02:18):
years later I've working with both of them and a
lot of other people. So it's been pretty cool, man.
And now that I've got my own podcast, I'm having
a blast doing it. Man. I get to really just.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Where they can find you.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, you can find me pretty much anywhere that streams
podcast obviously, the normal stuff on the RSS feed like Spotify,
Apple podcast pod being anywhere. Just look up Free the Rabbits.
It's a market media product, so you can go check
me out there. It's generally a solo show. It's me

(02:57):
breaking down various topics. Some of it's conspiratorial, some of
it's more religion based, some of its ancient history. I
jump around a lot. It's just whatever I'm interested in, really,
so I do a lot of different things. I find
that a lot of these topics interweave between each other

(03:18):
a lot. So you'll find the occult and conspiratorial topics,
or you might find, you know, some gnosticism over here,
and like some ancient history, they just tend to kind
of all blend together at some point. So I think
that's one thing that I'm finding as I'm digging through topics.

(03:39):
Like I was telling you yesterday, I just did an
episode about Isaac Newton, and I really wasn't planning on
going the direction that I did. And as I was
reading this book that I actually sent over to you,
it was really interesting because like the back end of
his career, like thirty years, he spent more time riting

(04:00):
about religion and alchemy than he actually did anything scientific.
As a matter of fact, he said in several letters
he found it boring, so he was more about writing
about things that he really couldn't publish at the time
because his thoughts on certain matters would have gotten him
in trouble with the Church of England, which he actually

(04:20):
was a member of, so he had to kind of
hide what he really thought about things because he needed
the ability to be able to perform scientific methods and
be able to have those, you know, published, so people
would take those thoughts and theories on board as scientific fact.

(04:45):
So you'll find that a lot with a lot of
different things though, So yeah, and I ended up going
down a whole different road. I thought I was going
to go down some alchemical road, which I'm going to
eventually with him, but I ended up going down a
very religious road in his beef with the Roman Catholic Church,
which was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, there's a really good book, I think it's called
Newton the Alchemist that talks about his alchemical endeavors and yeah,
the Newton, Yeah, by William R. Newman, Newman being one
of the He goes hard on the paint when it
comes to alchemy. And they don't teach you a lot
of the esoteric stuff that a lot of these prominent

(05:25):
figures were really into. They don't teach you that in school. Right.
We know Newton for other things gravity and physics and
all these other mumbo jumbos, but they don't talk about like, oh,
he was also obsessed with like the Temple of Solomon
and built a bunch of models of the Temple of Solomon.
And it was actually hidden away I think until I

(05:45):
want to say twenty twelve that a lot of his
paperwork was hidden away, and I think it was sold
at an auction or something or other. Something happened with
the paperwork and they kind of they hit it. They
hit a lot of it, like they did with Carl
Jung in his work. A lot of his work wasn't
published till recently, I think twenty twelve as well. But yeah,

(06:08):
you have Newton predicting the end of the world and
he was obsessed with the book Revelation. Super interesting guy,
and today we're gonna be talking about another interesting person,
infamous person, you know, Alistair Crowley, and I know that
you When does the documentary come out? I heard you
guys got on the last living homoncologists of all time

(06:30):
on there as well. That's just those are rumors I heard.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, we did. We actually had the the only amuncoologist
that's ever lived. One Ayala was on the documentary. And
the plan is the end of summer the first of fall,
so we're probably looking at August to September drop date. Yeah,

(06:56):
we've got a whole revamped editing team. And I say revamped,
it's really just an additional editing team to take a
lot of the load awful Ward who's really just directing
and you know, putting all these films together, which is
a lot of work. But now we've got a really
cool editing team that used to work for Timpoole and

(07:17):
now they're working for us, which is really cool. And
these guys are phenomenal, like really good that came over Yeah, yeah,
so's yeah. I don't want to get into that whole thing,
but there's a whole debacleo over there, you know that camp. Yeah,
But we were already cool with those guys and we'd

(07:39):
work with them over the past couple of years anyway,
and so it just was a natural fit. And these
guys know exactly how we like it, and they you
think the same way. So the films are only going
to elevate from here. They're going to be great. So
we got a film coming out in a couple months.
When we went out to the Meadow pri which is

(08:01):
undisclosed location we had signed NDA's to go to. We're
out there for a week, had some really cool, interesting
stuff happening out there that'll come out in a couple months.
And then the Crowley film is dropping. Like I said,
August or September. I hit up Isaac the other day
and let him know too, because he's been plugging it
on his show, because he's in the film too. For

(08:24):
people that know, so Tony Merkle, Isaac wisawt wan Ayala,
and a bunch of other interviews that we did with
people on location. We're in four different locations, so it's
going to be our biggest film to date as far
as size and scope. So it's going to be fascinating.
But it's built on the back of a lot of

(08:45):
research that I did on Alistair Crowley, and I've done
just an an ordinate amount over the past couple of
years on his inner workings, not only within the occult,
because I think that a lot of people get really
captivated with that part of it, right, because that's a
very interesting part, the occult part. You know, he was
known as the wickedest man on Earth and the beast,

(09:08):
and yes, that's a major part of him, for sure,
But I believe there's more. There's more like three parts
to him, maybe four, if we want to say that
there's a true self that none of us really knew,
right or nobody really knew. But you got the occult side,
this magic side of him. You've got this charlatan side
of him, which some people think that he was purely

(09:29):
a charlatan, think that he was just swindling people with
all of these occult machinations. I don't think so, but
I think there was a charlatan side of him, and
it also leads into this other part of him, which
is this secret agent side of him, this actor side
of him, and it is very It really fascinated me

(09:51):
his connections with the government, and it as I was
building this film, which is called Crowley's Melon Heads Children
of the Beast. When I was building the film, a
major part of it was his connections with the government
because of what we know even now about what governments

(10:13):
talk about entities and interdimensional beings. We know last year
they were in Congress talking about interdimensional beings, so we
know that they're now in the modern era, they are
at least putting out some knowledge to the public. I mean,
obviously it's going to be diluted. They're not going to
give us the real nuts and bolts. But I do

(10:36):
think that a lot of this was already in the works,
especially with Crowley, and I think it started early on
in his career when he was in Cambridge which is
Trinity College. Now there's been several writers that have done
some fantastic work on tracking down a lot of what

(10:56):
he's done. Tobias Churton is a really great one that
I've read quite a bit of what he's written about Crowley,
but he's got tons of books and he talks about
different parts of Croley's life, like Croley in America, or
Croley in Paris, and Croly in England, because Croley was everywhere.
You got Richard Krazinski, who's another really good writer that

(11:17):
talks about Crowley and he is actually a part of
the OTO currently, and then Richard B. Spence, who probably
did some of the best work when it comes to
Crowley being a secret agent. And that's when I really
started putting pieces together with my own theories of where

(11:38):
the film went to. Because his marriage between the government
and the Occult was on purpose, and I believe that
the Government's encouraged his road into the Occult because of
the fact that during the period of time in the
late eighteen hundreds when he was coming up through Trinity

(12:04):
College and Cambridge and he was hobnobbing around with some
of these other elites, I guess would be the best
word for it, the Occult was running rampant. The people
with money and power were fascinated with it. And you know,
there were like two hundred thousand Freemasons in England at

(12:25):
the time, I believe it was, and you had all
of these secret societies really becoming popular. Freemasonry was more
of the gateway drug, and then once you got in there,
then you had access to some of these other secret
societies like the Golden dyn which we'll talk about today
because that's kind of important with some of the secret age.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Kind of a misnomer too, right, like these secret societies
becoming popular.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, And it's funny when you think about it when
it said that way, but it was the truth. It was.
Some of it was a social I don't think everybody
that was a part of these secret societies was involved
in the occult in any sense. I don't think a
lot of them are now. And I can tell you
from my own experience being a part of Freemasonry at

(13:12):
one point in my life, that's really not man, it's
really just the social aspect that stuff not confirm. Yeah,
but most of these guys were just in it for
social purposes. Man. It's a brotherhood, it's a fraternity, right,
and really, when you think about it, if you're a
part of a fraternity and there are guys in that

(13:33):
fraternity that are in different positions in life, it just
means that you've got a leg up to get somewhere
that you want to go. Right, it's not necessarily this
occult thing, which again that is a part of it,
especially when you work your way up and the guys
that are interested in that. Obviously the gateways there for
you to get to where you want. But it's kind

(13:55):
of how it was in England at the time when
he was coming up, and really his whole journey to
the occult really started when he was a kid and
when he was younger. His father was actually a part
of what they called the Plymouth Brethren and the Plymouth

(14:16):
Brethren or the Assemblies of Brethren. It was a nonconformist
Christian movement and it can be traced back to Dublin,
Ireland in the early eighteen hundreds and it originated from Anglicism,
but they emphasized what they called the solo scripturah, and
that was the belief that the Bible was the only
authority for church doctrine and practice. So no other book

(14:39):
that's talking about God is even looked at. They were
really more of a cult than they were actually a
Christian denomination. And his father was a preacher and he
was a part of this Plymouth Brethren. They were very strict.
He grew up in a very strict household when he
was younger. But when he was eight years old old,

(15:01):
his father has like this mouth cancer right, and it
can be cut out and he could live. But instead
of doing that, the Plymouth Brethren, his brothers, convinced him
that they had this electronic method. It was like an
electric method, plus the power of God would heal him.

(15:24):
So he decided not to go to an actual doctor
where he could get help, and he decides to try
this experimental practice with the Plymouth Brethren ends up dying.
So when Crowley's, you know, eight years old, his father
dies and he blamed the Christians. And that's really where

(15:44):
his entire life is shaped by his father essentially being
killed by the Plymouth brother not that they did it
on purpose, but that's how it's happened. So what Crowley did,
and if you notice a lot of Crowley's writings, everything's
intertwined with Egyptian mythology, Egyptian gods, and he actually viewed

(16:09):
himself as Horace. That was the first time that he
really viewed himself as being this version of Horse, because
in his mind, you had the god o Cyrus, and
that represented his father. Then you had the brother of Osiris,
which was Set, and Set represented Christianity. So Christianity killed

(16:33):
his father, So Set killed his father. And then you
know the story of isis she goes and gets the
pieces of Osiris. In some stories, he just builds the
pieces of the Phallus, and then she creates insiminates herself
with this dead seed of Osiris to then create Horace.

(16:54):
And then as the story goes, Horace grows older and
then challenges Set for the throne. And that's who he
viewed himself as. And that was the moment that he
viewed himself as Horace and what he was going to
do to Christianity, because to him, Christianity was evil. And
I know a lot of people to this day that
believe Christianity are evil, and in a lot of ways,

(17:18):
me being a Christian, I have to have a lot
of empathy. One because I spent a good portion of
my life believing the same thing, and I understand that
things can happen in our lives that people who are
associated with a said practice do bad things to us,
and because of that, we want to have nothing to
do with something because it's like, for instance, say your

(17:40):
first three interactions one with white people were negative, you
know what I mean, So now all white people are
evil because of that. That's just a normal human reaction.
And it's very normal when it comes to Christianity because
you've got a lot of people who say that they're
Christians and doing pretty awful stuff. And this was an

(18:03):
actual case where, yeah, his father died because of the
Plymouth Brethren and his father being stupid and not going
to a doctor where they could have easily taken care
of it and he would have lived. And the thing was,
Crowley was very close to his father, so that was
pretty hard on him seeing his father die. And he
decides to make it his mission to take out Christianity,

(18:26):
you know, with joining all of these different secret societies,
creating the religion of Thelema and trying to progress the
Oto throughout the United States. And that's a lot later
in nineteen fourteen through nineteen nineteen when he decides to
do that, But yeah, he definitely had a moment that
really shook him to his core. But as he gets older,

(18:53):
his mother remarries and he ends up really getting close
to his uncle and his aunt Annie, and because of
his closeness to them is how he really gets attached
to some of the higher life society and more of

(19:13):
the money crowd. And not that his father didn't have money.
His father did. But here's the thing. Some people think
that Crowley was super rich as a kid. He really wasn't.
They were more like middle upper class, so they kind
of hung on the fringes of being high society. But
his uncle and his aunt Annie were, They were very

(19:36):
high society. The hobnobbed around with all of the people
that could get him connected. And that's really how he
gets to Cambridge in Trinity College was because of that.
He because of Aunt Annie and his uncle's tie ins

(19:56):
to some of the bigger guys like Lord Salisbury, which
Lord Salisbury his four half brothers were already previously went
through Cambridge Trinity College. Now the Thawt pattern is that
Lord Salisbury, whose real name is Robert Talbot gaskelline Cecil,
he was the third Marquis of Salisbury. Now he served

(20:20):
as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom three times over
thirteen years. This guy was super connected. He was also
a Foreign Secretary, but one of the things that he
was in charge of was the Intelligence Department. Now, the
thought pattern is that he helped get Crowley into Cambridge

(20:43):
and while Crowley was there, Salisbury was recruiting young men
to be a part of the Intelligence Department. And the
belief is that he did indeed go to Alistair and
because of the connections between solis Bury and his and uncle,

(21:04):
he was able to help aleister Crowley become a secret agent.
And there is evidence that he was doing missions, at
least for trial missions while he was in Cambridge at
Trinity College.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Who was the one with the brewing company? Was it
his dad or was it his family? Because he was
left a substantial amount of money.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
His dad, So yeah, his dad had a brewing company. Again,
they had money, but when you're talking about elite upper society,
they weren't quite there. They were kind of in that
fringe bracket right below it. So they had money. And
the thing is, if Croley had been good with money
at all, which he wasn't, he blew it left and right.

(21:48):
He could have actually used the money that his dad
made and lived a very comfortable life his entire life
and never had to work. But the thing was, Crowley
loved to blow money. Croley believed that much when he
was useless in his mind. Croley's an odd character when
it comes to his belief system. On the one hand,

(22:09):
he was a patriot, he believed in the English rule,
and on the opposite side of it, he was an anarchist.
So he kind of played both ends of it. But
that also lends to his duality as a person, and
it shows how easy it was for him to become

(22:30):
a secret agent because even his sexuality one he was bisexual,
and this is a known fact. This is not nothing
that's you know, hard to find. But because of his bisexuality,
that was very useful in these missions that he was

(22:52):
sent out on from England.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Looking at the numbers that he so he received thirty
seven thirty thousand pounds, I think that's pounds or one
third of his father's wealth when he was a boy,
and that was the equivalent to about thirty seven thousand
US dollars, which is the equipment in that time, right
from the early nineteen hundreds, is about one point four
million dollars in twenty twenty five adjusted for inflation, so

(23:20):
not a crazy amount of money, but still a substantial
amount for the time. But his extravagant lifestyle and drug
addiction left him bankrupt and it was not enough to
support him, obviously, because he how he said, he was
just blowing money left and right and going on all
these occult excursions if you will.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, and you have to wonder where was he getting
the money from, right, And he was blowing it like hotcakes,
but he was still recooling it. And he lived a
very extravagant lifestyle, especially when he did his like five
year run in the states Man. He was staying at
all of the penthouses in New York and any place

(24:03):
else he was at. The thought pattern is that the
government was paying him under the table as a secret
agent because he wouldn't have been on the books, and
paying him as a secret agent, which was again filling
his coffers back up to where he could live this lifestyle.

(24:25):
And that was a constant and from all educations he
was really good at his job. I mean again, because
he had such a dual personality, because he was bisexual,
especially when you start getting into these fraternities with a
lot of men. A lot of those guys were hitting
homosexuals too. It's a very useful tool. And I was

(24:51):
reading that to be a secret agent, the high that
you get off of it is on sexual and I've
heard this from several different people who have been a
part of these agencies. And because of that factor, when
you factor it in with Crowley's own depravity and the

(25:15):
things that he loved to do, that would have fed
that completely. And because Croley really didn't have a moral code,
being a secret agent's perfect. If you were looking to
recruit a guy, Crowley would be the guy to recruit
because you got a guy who's a moral who doesn't
care about anybody but himself, and who's got a dual

(25:39):
personality and is also a great actor. You know, he
was a decent writer, decent poet, poet, you know, he
wrote songs, okay, but really people said, if you wanted
to get in the arts, he could have been probably
a fantastic actor.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Which I think he was as well. And here's the thing,
so he's always described as like this narcissist, like super
self centered. The whole debacle of him being a climber
and leaving people behind. Although right here says he wasn't
definitively diagnosed as a sociopath. A lot of his behavior

(26:22):
that he was exhibiting could be characteristics of a socio
But my whole thing is right, So if we go
back and we look at not even the nineteen hundreds, right,
even before that, we go back to John D. Which,
by the way, I'm gonna manifest that movie, and I
planted the seed with Western Cage about the John D movie. Okay,

(26:45):
all right, Western, I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm all for it, but you make sure you do
a part of it where you talk about him being
a secret agent too, because he was also so.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
The wealthy elite and by the well elie, I'm talking
about the people in power. They have this interest in
the occult. Right, Let's use John D for an example.
Who right, the original allegedly double O seven that people
always talk about, right, and how he was also a
spy his time.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Not even allegedly though, one because Ian Fleming took the
double O seven from his signature that he used to
sign the Queen's documents with. You can pull us up online.
He used to sign them double O seven. The eyes
of the Queen and seven was his magic number.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Or the two ball Kane, you know, however you want
to interpret it, right, So the elites, they have this
connection with the occult, even in today's stand even the
early you know, twentieth century, with even the whole Gateway experience,
remote viewing, et cetera, et cetera. That's kind of sort
of a cult slash new aging away. But what I

(27:58):
haven't been able to pimpoint is why this guy, aside
from his sociopathic tendencies narcissistic tendencies being by side, why him?
Because I always thought that he said that to like
flex on people, because he was kind of sort of
you know, when you think of a charlatan, you also
think of a liar or like a snake oil salesman,

(28:20):
right they're lying about it. And he seemed like the
kind of guy who was very ego driven, very ego centric,
and would kind of, yeah, you know, I'm also a
secret agent. It's like something that you can't really truly prove,
especially for that time. It's not like you can google
him or something. Although he was famous in his own
right during his time, and he was recognizable around where

(28:41):
he was at Well, it's like, why this guy out
of everyone else that could do the role. And I'm
sure there was other secret agents as well, but I
just found interesting as to why they landed on Crowling.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Well, I think it had a lot to do with
family connection, to be honest with you. Take it back
to Lord Salisbury being connected to his uncle and especially
his aunt because she was a part of what they
called the Primrose League. And the Primrose League was the
best way to say it is a church based secret society.
So the Prime Rose Yeah, the Primrose League. So Lord

(29:28):
Salisbury was also a part of that with Aunt Annie,
and yeah, conservative principles in Great Britain. And that's where
the whole phrase I'll hold support God Queen in the
country when no alwa's in God Queen in the country.
That's where it comes from. Is this Primrose League. Now
they were very patriotic, so and Annie was a part

(29:54):
of this. Lord Salisbury is a part of this. So
because of these connections he gets into Cambridge College. Now, Listen,
Crowley was super smart. He was super intelligent.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Man.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
You don't get it into Trinity College if you're not smart.
That's just a fact, a matter of fact. We're just
talking about Isaacton. Newton went to Trinity College and Cambridge,
and there were many many other great alchemists and scientists
and writers and mathematicians that all went through Trinity College
and Cambridge. So that's why I think he got the look.

(30:28):
Number two Sometimes is just something they see in you,
especially if you're just dead inside. And that's the best
way for me to say it. You know, if you're
a recruiter and you're looking for somebody to join special Forces, right,
you want somebody that cannot only do the job, but

(30:49):
also doesn't really have attachments, doesn't really have these moral
codes that would hold you back from being able to
pull the trigger, so to say. And I think that
had a lot to do with why Crowley was picked
again connections number one, but I think the second part

(31:10):
was his ability to, for lack of better word, internally
shape shift no matter who he was around. Now you ask,
you know, what's some of the other proof that he
was a part of what would now be called five
M I six, which obviously had nothing to do back

(31:34):
then because five and I six didn't even exist back then.
There were so many different quote unquote secret services that
didn't interconnect with each other at all. They ended up
being rival organizations within Great Britain. This is before they
finally solidified it later on with I five I six.

(31:58):
Now we were talking about Richard B. Spence. Richard B. Spence,
when he was writing his book about Croly being a
secret agent, he started contacting all of these different organizations
in MY five, in MY six started talking to the
federal government here and some of the well, they all
reached back out to him, but some of them said, look,

(32:20):
we don't have anything on Crowley. Crowley wasn't even you know,
a part of anything we did. Oddly enough, our federal
government said that Crowley, they were not allowed to talk
about it. That's what they responded to him with. They said,
in so many words, we don't have anything, but we
can't talk about it. So it's like we don't have

(32:41):
anything for you. It's basically what they were saying. Now,
when he did reach out to five six, he ended
up getting there's a slip and I'm about to show
it now. There was a slip that was found in
a folder that had Crowley's name on it, and there
were documents in this folder, but there weren't any documents

(33:03):
in the folder. There was just a slip that had
his name on it, and there were supposed to be documents.
And they came back and they told Richard B. Spence, well, yeah,
there's a folder. It's just an empty folder with this
slip with his name on it. So they clearly had
a bulk of info on Crowley and they had a
lot going on with Crowley that they just didn't that.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Could have been destroyed. I mean, they could have had
paperwork and it could have been destroyed if he was
truly in as deep as they say, right, like some
black budget stuff, really truly secret agent. It's like, hey,
it's so secret, we got to throw it out. And
that's not something that he could have planted himself. That's
something that could have legitimately came from. Is that his

(33:51):
handwriting or is that like an agent's handwriting.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
That's the agent's handwriting. So that's the actual slip from
the folder.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
We know what that says.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
I can't read it, man, I was just got dates
on it down here, he's got his name here. But
essentially it's just stating, according to Richard Richard B. Spence
that there was documentation on Crowley within m I five,

(34:26):
but they don't have anymore and they said they don't
know what happened to it, of course. So that's the
other pretty big piece of evidence that we know that
he was involved somehow, right, we know that he was
working with them in some capacity. Now, there were many

(34:47):
times that he said later on in his career that
I mean you mentioned it earlier, where he said, oh,
I was I did this with the government, or I
did this, or I'm not at all to talk about this.
He may have very well been telling the truth. I mean,
he could have been embellishing things, which I think Crowley

(35:09):
did from time to time for sure. But the more
research that I've done on Crowley, yeah, he had a
big ego, but man, he did a lot of what
he said he did. I mean, he was involved in
all of these different organizations. And again he waited until
he was on the back end of his life to

(35:30):
really start talking about a lot of these interactions within
what we'd now call M I five M I six.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Interesting. I'm trying to find to see if there is
anyone who's uh, you know, transcribed that that slip there.
I can't even find that slip on the internet.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Dude, yeah, it was in the book, so I was
able to.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Which book is that The Secret Agent sixty sixty six? Yep, yeah,
I haven't read that one. That one's yeah, Richard Spence,
what year is that from? That's from two thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Damn all right.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
So he's done a bit of digging, right, So let's
say that he was if we look at it from
a logical perspective, Let's say that they knew that he
had an interest in the occult. Right, we have his
family connections as well, and let's say that a lot
of these influential figures were also in these occult circles

(36:26):
because of what we mentioned earlier about it being a
sort of social club. Maybe not so maybe half and half? Right,
A lot of them were interested in the occult and
all this other stuff, but a lot of them weren't.
They were just there to hang out and like, hey,
why don't we just put in one of our guys
in there to see if they can get some dirt
on these other dudes who are in there, who are

(36:48):
higher up in society or whatever it is, and maybe
even get some dirt on them too. That this could
be like the beginning and what I think, dude, what
I think is a link of like these Epstein guys
right where it's a lineage of them, and there's a
whole sect of these people who are just put in

(37:11):
charge in different places to get the dirt and the blackmail.
Because I think that's the most powerful form of knowledge.
And I've said this before, where it's not the knowledge
of like the Faustian bargain of like, hey, you know,
if you know the names of these demons, you can
conjure up the Ragnarok or whatever it is. Like, No,

(37:32):
the real dangerous knowledge is you walked in on somebody
you weren't supposed to walk into, saw some things you
weren't supposed to see. That's the dangerous knowledge that'll really
get you killed. Not this other mumbo jumbo cult stuff
which kind of sort of lay would lay the way
for these elites to be able to do stuff like

(37:53):
they did in the you know, the ditty parties and
all this stuff. Who says that, you know, dressing up
all and white, that's super a cult, you know what
I'm saying. And it's like, hey, look, we saw such
and such person there doing this ritual and it just
so happened to involved x y Z and now we
got him boys or like the whole Bohemian Grove stuff.

(38:16):
I mean, that's that's the whole thing of that as well.
It's like, what do you guys do out there? We're
just hanging out? Are you? You get what I'm saying?
And that would that that would also contribute to the
was Alex Jones an agent that exposed the Bohemian Grove
and he was like one of the first people to

(38:39):
really come out and videotape and all this other things
like was he an agent? He's very influential. He's in
all these circles, right, I mean, it's just something to think.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
About, and I think that was definitely part of it
for sure. And because of his knowledge in the occult,
when he would get in these circles, he would shine.
He always shown and he would garner the eyes of
whoever is kind of at the top, you know, when

(39:13):
we'll talk about the Golden Down here in a minute,
because that's kind of important because that gets into Mexico
and that also talks about the other part of him
being a secret agent. So if you know anything about
secret agents, there's what they call agent provocateurs and an
agent provocateur for people that don't know, are basically agents

(39:35):
that are put into place to disrupt something. So a
good example we all have when we had all the
riots going on in two twenty twenty, we had stories
of piles of bricks and things being laid in certain
places to start things, and there would be random people

(39:58):
that would start throwing bricks at you know, storefronts or
whatever else. Now, people, when they're in a large group
and the emotions are heightened, it's very easy to guide
people down a path. And if you have what you

(40:19):
call agent provocateurs that are integrated within say they're FEDS
or CIA or whatever else. They're dressed to look like
everyone else in the crowd, but then they start the
violence and then everyone else picks up on it, that
would be an example of an agent provocateur. Now, Crowley,
from all indications, was an agent provocateur because of the missions,

(40:44):
the type of missions, even early on that they sent
him on. And we'll talk about a couple of those
here now. His first brush with the intelligent work was
while he was still in school, and I was talking
about that earlier. He was on a summer long vacation
in eighteen ninety seven, and you were talking about him
being a mountain climber, and he was an avid mountain climber.

(41:05):
Matter of fact, he was really good at mountain climbing.
And we'll talk about when he was in Mexico. He
did a lot of mountain climbing down there too, And
in instead of scaling the Alps that summer, he decided
to visit Saint Petersburg, Russia. Now, he said his purpose
was to improve his Russian and he not only determined
on a career and the diplomatic service, was aiming to

(41:28):
an appointment to the most interesting and brilliant court in Europe,
that of Czar Nicholas the Second. And Crowley set out
of his own mouth, and this is why he's still
at Trinity College. And this is when he's about to
go to Saint Petersburg, Russia. He said, the subtlety of
intrigue has always fascinated me, which at the time didn't
make a lot of sense to people when he said that,

(41:51):
But in retrospect now it looks like that was his
first mission. Now we don't know exactly what he was
there to do, but if he's going to Russia to
spy on whatever they ask him to spy on, and
again it could be like a dummy mission, right, hey,

(42:11):
go here, get this little information that we want you
to get. It might even be that important, but they
want to see if he can pull it off and
he can become whatever person that they tell him to
be right. And the biggest thing with Crowley is when
he would go on these missions, he would present it

(42:32):
as him doing something else, especially early on in his career,
and that's pretty typical of secret agents, and he did
that here as well. Now again he gets back from
this particular mission. We don't hear much more about it,
but it seems after that that it ramps up. And
the fact of the matter that he would skip out

(42:52):
on scaling the Alps to go to you know, random Russia,
Saint Petersburgh to you know, study diplomatic service that she
ended up not even doing. That's the best part, you know.
He played this front in school like he was gonna
go into the government become a diplomat, and as soon

(43:14):
as the back end of Trinity College is wrapping up,
he gets super engrossed into the occult and when he
leaves there he decides that he's going to be in
occultistn't study magic. That was going to be his career,
which is super weird because that doesn't really have a
lot of money in it unless you're a Charlottan and

(43:35):
you're scamming people for money. But really there's no indication
that he ever did that in his career, that he
was scamming people for money, that he was trying to
get money off of people to perform rituals or whatever else.
As a matter of fact, he detested people that did that,
so that wouldn't make sense either. So from all educations.
While he was at Trinity College, he was doing missions

(43:56):
for the British Intelligence.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
I have this thing here that I don't know how
accurate it is, but I told Chad Gpt to tell
me about Curley being a secret agent and so World
War One the anti British persona in the US. We
moved to the US in nineteen fourteen and wrote pro
German propaganda for the following in publication aligned with German interests.

(44:23):
Is that true? So he portrayed himself as a trader
to Britain, advocating for Irish independency and even celebrating the
sinking of the Lusitania.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So here's the thing. The him working for the Germans
was a double agent move. He was actually working for
the British when he was working for the Germans. So
you were talking about the Lusitania and he was actually

(44:55):
on the Lusitanium multiple times. And I actually did an
entire episode the Lusitania and Crowley. This was probably about
a two hour episode that I did about this is
very interesting and it was when he first came to
the United States. There are a lot of characters involved
what he was doing, who he was hobknopping with, and
when it came to Art and JP Morgan and Morgan

(45:17):
Knights are all involved with this too. But from just
a standard historical point of view, he was working with
the Germans. He turned on the British. He was trying
to help the Germans to scare the US to not
join the war because the British wanted the US to

(45:40):
join the war and join the Allies to help take
the Germans down. America didn't want anything to do with
the war early on. That was the game. So he
goes into and I'm really like short wrapping all this up,
but he goes into the German group that's in New York,

(46:04):
and he starts working for this propaganda paper and starts
writing for them. So basically their job is to put
out propaganda in the US, specifically New York, to scare
the US citizens to not want to go to war,
to not join the Allies. The Germans don't want that
because the US has a lot of resources. Well, the

(46:28):
British have sent Croley into work for the Germans, and
the job of Crowley is to hype them up enough
to blow up the Lusitania, which they had a U
boat that was ready for the Lusitania to come into

(46:49):
the British port. It gets better the day of the
same propaganda paper comes out and says that there's a
possible attack. Nobody really gets off the boat, but a
bunch of elites before the boat leaves. It's sounds a
lot like some of these other things that have happened.
So the boat leaves, as it's pulling into the port,

(47:11):
there's a U boat underneath the water submarine hit them
with the missile. Now, the way that the Luciditani was built,
it was essentially early on built for war, but it
really wasn't good for that because if you hit it
in the front. The way that the balance was on
the boat, it's going to go down instantly. So it

(47:33):
killed a bunch of people, a lot, a bunch of
Americans as a matter of fact. So really what that
did was hype the Americans up to go to war,
not scare them to not go to war. That was
the point. They needed a catalyst to kill a bunch
of Americans. So then the Americans, which they didn't go
right away in the war, but it was about a

(47:53):
year later false flag, and Crowley was a part of that.
Now check this out, because Crowley, he was so deeply
entrenched into occult practices that fed everything the Germans loved.
The Germans loved the occult, they were super fascinated with it,
and they believed everything Crowley said. As matter of fact,

(48:14):
they never questioned once that Croly was still working for
what we would now call five six. They thought he
was sold and bought in. That's how much he had
them tricked. Think about this. Though Croley was never prosecuted,
he was never got in trouble with any governments. He
was living in the US working for the Germans, apparently,

(48:36):
and then the Germans blow up a boat with a
bunch of Americans on it, and Crowley doesn't even get
in any trouble, didn't get in any trouble with the
British nothing. So at some point we have to look
at it that Crowley was actually the catalyst that started
the Americans connection to World War One, or started the

(49:00):
Americans into becoming a part over World War One, which
is again there are a lot of moving parts that
got him to that point. But he wasn't the only
double agent that was also working this entire Lusitania agenda.
And Crowley was very familiar with the boat itself because

(49:22):
he traveled on that specific boat several times from the
UK to America and back again, so he knew the
boat like the back of his hand. He would have
been able to tell them. So what Crowley did. He
went to the Germans squand and he said, hey, they
got all these guns on this boat. They're shipping guns
out for the war. The Americans aren't being upfront and honest,

(49:46):
they're shipping guns back to the British and all these
other places that the boat ported, because it wasn't just
the UK, it was all kind of different places. And
that's how he sold them the thing is they did
have guns on the boat, at least initially, because it
was initially constructed as a war boat. They changed it

(50:09):
it's make up later, but it was initially set up
to be a war boat. So he wasn't necessarily lying,
but he was probably lying about the extent of what
was actually on the boat to get them to blow
the boat up.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
So this plays into and it's a little fuzzy because
it's been a little bit since I last read the book,
but in Moonchild he kind of sort of alludes to
starting a sort of you know, a world war or
a conflict of sorts, and kind of sort of hints
at these magicians pulling the strings behind the scenes to

(50:48):
have world events happened. So now that you're now that
you're telling me this, and I'm putting these pieces together
as to like, okay, so he was German centric like
kind of sort of putting on a facade, and that's
a bit confusing, that's a bit chaotic if you really
look at it, because it's like, hey, look at what

(51:09):
the right hand is doing, but not the left hand.
And this whole time, dude, I'm like, so I'm still
trying to process it because You're like's yeah, he's a
double agent of a double agent. It's like wait, wait what?
And then it one hundred percent fits into the whole
aspect of World War Two, where I've always said that
World War Two wasn't a cult war. I think World

(51:29):
War Two wasn't what they've told us. How do I
navigate these waters? I don't think that World War two?
How do I say this? We don't have the full
lowdown of World War Two? And I think that there
was more of occult stuff happening. And if you want
to believe the number that they present, right, if you

(51:53):
catch my drift and all this stuff, if you want
to believe that aspect of it, that's kind of sort
of biblical in a way. You know, those people that
were targeted are kind of sort of biblical in a way.
And in my opinion, I've never said what my true
theory was of that part of World War Two. Right,

(52:14):
it's gonna be on YouTube, so we gotta be careful
because they're always watching. But I don't know if you
did you ever see the show on HBO, the show
thirty Coins? Did you ever see that show?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
I started watching, I loved it, and I don't know
what happened, and I got distracted. You and I were
talking about thirty coins recently. I'm sure it's a lot
easier for you because you speak the language, so I
have to read the subtitles. But it was good, like
I think I watched. I might have watched most of it.
I loved all of it like it was good. It

(52:50):
was really good, so I'm familiar with it.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
That show kind of fed into my theory as to
why our Adolph did all he did. I think that
he was after the Philosopher's Stone, and that would involve
the sacrifice of a large amount of people. Now you're
going to have people who don't buy that narrative. But

(53:15):
in this show, he was searching for something. He was
searching for the coins of Judas, and that's why he
gathered them all up. Because the elite of the elite,
which would have been them with all the money, would
have access to this, and that's what he was looking
for when he was wiping all these people out, taking
all their belongings and getting rid of them, because he

(53:36):
was looking for the coin. And if you have all
the coins, you get like supernatural powers and all this craziness.
But the fact that there is an occult aspect to
the Nazis and that they were looking for different relics
and all these things that you know, Himmler and his
whole posse, that they were going around looking for these

(53:59):
occult red of the spirit, Destiny, the what the hell's
the other one? I'm I'm sure they're looking for the
ark of the Covenant, what's the cup? The Holy Grail,
the Holy Grail, And that would make sense to where
here is this guy who's obsessed with the occult. Let's
put him in there, and you're gonna be in occultist right,

(54:23):
and you're gonna be in those circles to see what
they truly have figured out. And I mean the conspiracy
theories of the Nazis and the occult goes goes way deep.
Even in that show, they have the scene where they're
at the castle trying to open up a portal to Hell,
which is also another one of these conspiracy theories that

(54:44):
the Nazis were trying to open in Hell Boy. I
think in Hell Boy too they have that as well.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
They did open the portal hell Boy too.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
And all the demons and everything. So bro, I'm just saying,
like this is just opening up other avenues as to
even if because a part of me also believes that,
because we got to understand that he was also involved
the Parsons, which Parsons was more on the American side,

(55:13):
but he was keeping the the He was riding back
and forth. There were like pen pals, so he was
kind of keeping check on Parsons, which would make sense
as to report back to his superiors like, Hey, this
is what they're doing over there in the US at
the parsonage, which, again, Parsons, you got l Ron Hubbard,

(55:38):
you got a lot of influential people who are tied
up in this, and they know Crowley, so he was
like there again, he was probably there in a sort
of in a sort of pseudo handler away. He was
their handler in a way, and I'm sure he was
reporting back and telling him like, Yo, don't do the
homunculus stuff, don't do all this other crazy stuff that

(55:59):
you doing. And who knows, dude, if all of that
which we know for a fact that the occult uses
symbols to convey other messages, what if since the beginning
right alchemy, speaking in symbols within your own circle in
the occult, speaking in symbols within your own circle. Well,

(56:19):
what if when they're talking about occult rituals and all
these things, they're actually talking and alluding to something else.
What a better way to occult it than speak in
those terms that no one else is going to ever
know what you're talking about. Oh look, they're just trying
to do some necromancy or something, when in reality they're
speaking in code to each other. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
So absolutely, dude, and listen, Parsons was able to do
what Crowley couldn't do while he was here, was spread
the OTO out in the US because Crowley tried and
they did try to set up a chapter in Detroit.
And there's a lot of interesting stuff when it comes
to and C. S. Jones, his son quote unquote, that

(57:03):
was in Detroit trying to set up the OTO there
and it failed. And that was when Crowley was trying
to come out with his next version of The Equinox,
which he couldn't even get that off the ground because
he was having so much, so many money problems at
the time and that was kind of on the back

(57:24):
part of him leaving in nineteen nineteen. But I believe
while he was here in the States. I think it
was solely driven by British intelligence. I think everything he
did over here was connected to British intelligence. Now I
do think he deviated off from that, especially when it

(57:45):
came to some of the occult practices that he was
practicing and some of the rituals that he was doing,
some of the rituals that we don't really know what
he was doing, kind of like you know, he disappears
in the Mammoth Caves for X amount of time, we
have no idea what he was doing there. And this

(58:06):
was when he was trying to set the OTO in Detroit,
and he ended up leaving in nineteen nineteen. He said
because of prohibition, because he knew when prohibition was going
to be passed that that was going to cause more evil,
which is funny from the guy who they called the
evilst man on Earth. But that was one of the

(58:27):
reasons that he said, at least overtly, he wanted to leave.
But I think there were other reasons. I think that
that British intelligence needed him for other missions. And you know,
if we dig in a little bit, go a little
bit back to when he left Cambridge, and this is

(58:48):
kind of what we were talking about him becoming a
part of secret societies to keep tabs on men in
these secret societys per British intelligence, to then disrupt the
plans that might be against what the British have in mind.

(59:09):
And this is a very interesting story about that about
Crowley when he leaves this particular time and he is
deepened the occult at this point, and he's he just
get he just got a hold of the book of

(59:32):
Black Magic and of Packs by author Edward Waite, and
so Crowley is fascinated with this book and all of
its suggestions of mystic brotherhoods ancient traditions. So he actually
writes Weight, seeking further guidance. So Weight responds and tells

(59:53):
him to take a look at the cloud on theistic
call van obscured, whom by an equally obscure eighteenth century
century German missed it. Carl von ek ek art Housen.
So Eckertthausen studied at a Jesuit university of Ingolstad under

(01:00:14):
Adam Weishaup. So we know Adam wisop is he started
the Bavarian Illuminati. And people wonder if Crowley knew who
Adam weisop was. I don't see why he wouldn't know
who he was, So I think that also gave him
this idea of secret societies and their importance to occult

(01:00:39):
practices that he was looking to follow. So at this
point he's looking to become a part of some sort
of secret society. So this is how he becomes a
part of the Golden Down. It's a very interesting story,
but if you look at it from the lens of
a secret agent, it makes a little more sense. How he,

(01:01:02):
on some just bizarre day, gets invited to become part
of the Golden Don. So he goes on a climbing
expedition to Switzerland, and he's at a lodge near Zermatt,
and he's talking to a bunch of guests and he's

(01:01:22):
talking loudly about alchemy. Now he's unaware that with an
earshot Julian Baker, who was a part of the Golden
Don at the time, and he's an accomplished chemist and
practicing alchemist and way more versed in alchemy than Crowley
ever was. So he hears him and later takes Crowley
aside to instruct him, and over the next few days

(01:01:46):
he asks Crowley to be his constant companion. So Croley
starts pressing him for more information, more information, and Baker
reveals that he's a part of this mystical society, the
Hermetic Order of the Golden Don promises to introduce Crowley
to other members when they return to London. Now, when

(01:02:08):
he gets back to London, he introduces them to George
Cecil Jones, and then he meets William Wynn Westcott, Florence Fair,
and William Butler Yeats, which, by the way, William Butler
Yeats and Crowley butted heads out the gate like they
could not stand each other. Matter of fact, even when
he was in the US, Yeats was writing people that

(01:02:30):
he knew new Crowley and was telling them not to
mess with Crowley. So they had just a lifelong beef
against each other. Now, who Crowley really wanted to meet though,
was Samuel Mathers. And Samuel Mathers was a British occultist,
a member of the Hermitic Order of the Golden Down,
and he actually was the patriarch of the Order. So

(01:02:55):
he gets to meet all these other guys through Baker,
but doesn't get to me met Mathers yet. They're kind
of holding back, holding back, holding back of him meeting them. Now,
the guys that are deep into the hermetic of the
Golden Down Order of the Golden Down are a part

(01:03:19):
of a group called the Jacobites. Now the Jacobites their
whole Now this is all political. They're what they call legitimates,
and the term is called legitimism and Legitimus or these
Jacobites was a society founded in eighteen ninety one and

(01:03:40):
the League was considered one of the key groups in
Neo Jacobite revival. So their whole idea was to support
the restoration of the House of Stuart to the thrones
of England, Scotland and Ireland. Now this is completely against
what the British want, but there were a lot of
Britain Britons who want this to happen. Now Crowley played

(01:04:02):
like he was a Jacobie. Obviously he would play these
roles consistently. Now he meets this guy called Bertram Ashburnham,
and he was the fifth Earl of Ashburnham and he
had a large estate in Wales. Now he was a

(01:04:22):
major part of trying to bring about this Jacobite order.
He had his own military training ground and there's no
evidence that Ashburnham was a member of the Golden Don,
but politics linked him to the ultra Jacobite. Who was
Samuel Mathers, who I said, who did run the Order
of the Golden Don, And he said he was the

(01:04:43):
chosen mouthpiece of the Secret Chiefs. If you know anything
about the Secret Chiefs, these are the inter dimensional beings,
the Mahatmas, these inter plane Adepts, as they call him.
These are the beings that are giving the knowledge to
whoever is the ahead of whatever secret society. In this
case it's the Order of the Golden Don. So Ashburnham

(01:05:08):
and Mathers they viewed Jacobitism as a very serious, deadly
business and they were looking for a regime change by
armed rebellion if they could. Now there's another group called
the Carlists, and they were of the same type of

(01:05:28):
group as the Jacobites, and Ashburnham and Mathers were looking
for a way to place a new leader in Spain
at the time. Now, the Carlos believe that whoever ruled
Spain had to be a descendant from Don Carlos Count

(01:05:53):
Molina to be able to take over it. Now there
was a Don Carlos of Spain at the time Don Miguel,
and they wanted to put him in place there. So
this was all done through the Order of the Golden
Don because of Ashburnham and Mathers. Now Mathers obviously is
running the Golden Done. Now you're gonna ask, you know,

(01:06:15):
where does Crowley fit into all of this wall He
fits a big piece into this because if Crowley, as
we talked about before, is a secret agent, double agent,
triple agent as he plays, he's been asked to infiltrate
the Order of the Golden Don to stop this process
of Don Carlos the Second from taking his what the

(01:06:36):
Carlos think and the Jacobites think is his rightful place.
But that doesn't jive with British, the British regime. They
it's not going to work for them. They don't want
him in place because obviously Spain's not going to operate
with Britain the same way that they will once Don
Carlos takes over, so they want to try to stop that.

(01:06:59):
As a matter of back in Croley's confessions during this
period of time, he says, in the service of Don Carlos,
he obtained a commission to work a machine gun. Took
pains to make myself a first class rifle shot and
study drill tactics and strategy. So Crowley even talks about
the fact that he is training to be an expert

(01:07:23):
shot any definitely things that you would talk about if
you were a secret agent. Obviously you're gonna have to
be able to work your way around guns. I'm sure Croley,
if he was actually a secret agent, was probably an
excellent killer as well. You know, we don't know the
extent of that part of it. But so the idea

(01:07:44):
is that they're going to ship these guns to Spain
to help with this process of the takeover. And there's
this personal yacht of ash Burnham called the Firefly, and
they loaded with all these rifles that were purchased in
Germany and they go to dispatch them in Spain. When

(01:08:07):
they get there, though, at the French port of Arcacon,
they get stopped and the Spanish council demands that Frenchustin
seize the vessel, and Crowley later writes the conspiracy was disclosed.
He says that it was the information was released prior

(01:08:28):
to it actually happening. Even Crazier on the boat was
a See Alexander, which was one of Croley's mini aliases.
If you know anything about Crowley, he had a list
a mile long of aliases that he used in different
places that he lived. Sometimes it was just an alias
that he was just using for like when he was
in Mexico, he went by Auroric when he was there.

(01:08:52):
He went by a completely different name while he was
down there. So in this case he was the See Alexander.
He's literally on on the boat when this happens, and
then later says that the conspiracies disclosed. Crazy enough, thirty
years later, the Beast talks about the Spanish Escapade and

(01:09:15):
the only thing he would say is there's a great
more deal to the story, but I cannot tell it yet,
And he said and basically revealing the fact that his
true role in the hand of that boat being stopped
with all those weapons that would have helped Carlos become
the new Don Carlos in Spain was actually stopped because

(01:09:36):
of Crowley infiltrating the Golden Don, getting tight with Mathers
who ran the Golden Don, who was also friends with
ash Burnham, and then he basically was an Asian evocator
and stopped the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Listen, dude, here, let's go back to the Mathers talking
to the buddy soopp for whoever he was talking to
these the White Brotherhood or the whatever million names for him, Yeah,
whatever you want to call him. Let's go off the

(01:10:12):
deep end here really quick, because I'm making some connections
that I don't know if they should be there or not.
And it's it's just kind of flipping my worldview right now,
warping my world view right now, real time. And I
want to get your opinion on this because this is
right up your alley. Okay, So the interdimensional connection, right,

(01:10:38):
this is something that let's say that the occult is
a gateway no pun, intended to intelligence, now intelligence in
the way of gathering information for other political entities, governmental entities,

(01:11:00):
or intelligence of tapping into another realm, or if that's
just code name for something else, right like who knows,
but I did recently, I did a Patreon episode on
Johann Veyer, which was a living student to Accorny. To this,

(01:11:20):
Agrippa and Joha Veyer wrote the pseudo Monarchiam Demonum, which
is a grim war with sixty nine demons and allegedly
this is what paved the way for the Goisha of
the seventy two Demons, which we have again various connections there.
We have King Solomon's connection there. But it's interesting that

(01:11:43):
a lot of occultists after the fact took the goaisha
and turned it into an actual thing. Little did they know.
And mind you, they're modeling after Veyer's work. The problem
with Veyer's work was that he did it to troll people,
and he did it in a way to kind of

(01:12:04):
sort of make fun of satire, if you will, of
the occult. Now why does this all matter, Well, he
was a living student with Agrippa. Agrippa again another one
of these occultists. I was putting out a whole bunch
of stuff that kind of sort of had ties to
John d He had ties to what you would call intelligence, right,

(01:12:26):
he was working with emperors and kings. And there's something
about the class of people. And I was listening to
Diana Pasoko talk on a podcast recently where she was
talking about that the class of people and the true
secret societies were the people who were cleaning out the
bedpans of like the king or the emperor, whoever it

(01:12:46):
was because they had access to the most intimate parts
of the wealthies life, the wealthy person's life, and they
could gather intelligence right on said emperor, whatever high governmental figure.
And if you look at the role of like the
occultists or the alchemists, they kind of sort of play
that role too. They're not in the spotlight per se,

(01:13:08):
but they're working in the core of whoever it is, right,
So Queen Elizabeth and John d he's kind of sort
of working. But if you really think about it, let's
say that let's say a lot of these similar to
the church. How you go and you give your confession
to the pope or whoever it is, and they listen
to you. They're getting all your dirt, bro right, You're

(01:13:29):
telling them all your deepest, darkest secrets and there they
got to remember, and they're reporting to somebody. Right, Oh,
you're in a booth. They can't see you. It's like, well,
I'm sure they know who you are. So if you
keep that in mind, what is the shaman class or
the occult class. What have they always done? They've always
been sort of like that. The wealthier, the elite go

(01:13:50):
to them like, hey, I have this problem, especially back
then like, hey, I might be cursed. Can you break
this curse for me?

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
What do you need? I need this information, this bodily
fluid or whatever it is. So they're kind of sort
of in that limelight too. And it goes back to
so this whole idea of maybe the occult being a
a gateway, right, So I'm sure that there's something legitimate
about it, even if it is the perception of you

(01:14:20):
manipulating reality reality, even if you're not, because that's the
whole conspiracy behind their cult. Is there another world interlaced,
you know, on top of ours? Are there demons? Are
there angels? Can you control those said forces?

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Trithemius the father of cryptography, right, he has this Stenographia,
which is always interested in me because John Dee and
a grip on all these guys, we are sort of
in the same circle. Stenographia, which is his best well
known work, is a three volume book that appears to
be about angelic magic, but is actually an advanced treaty

(01:15:00):
on cryptography and covert communication. This is the this is
the father of cryptography, of encoding meanings and things that
wouldn't otherwise have any meaning to anyone. Again, it goes
about you know, you always read about only the initiates
know what they're reading about. To the initiate, the text

(01:15:24):
means something completely different. So if we take that into
like an intelligence perspective and go okay, So for the initiate,
like a Crolly or somebody else in his circle, hey,
read this book on the Thelamide or whatever it is. Right,
So all of his work comes into question as to
was it legitimately a cult, was it legitimately magical, or

(01:15:46):
was it encoding something much deeper than that that is
about some sort of intelligence. So if you go down
the right, so you've got stenographia, the practice of concealing
messages within other messages, a key technique in it spionage
cipher systems. Uh Trithemius developed early cryptographic systems that influenced

(01:16:06):
later European spy networks. Hidden messages. His books describe ways
to encode messages within seemingly innocuous texts at or symbols,
an essential tool for spies. Right, So if we if
we talk about and this is just try trymetheus. Right,
So I'm thinking I go, okay, whatever, Let's say that
these guys paved the way for intelligence. Was he was

(01:16:30):
Trimetheus a spy? Well, again, he might have been a spy.
He was working with emperors and kings of his time. Okay, uh,
And then I put here was Cornelius agrippa secret agent? Well,
he was a diplomatic agent. He was again in that.
In that circle he served as a core physician, lawyer,
political advisor, again playing that role to nobles in France, Italy,

(01:16:53):
Spain and Germany. He worked for Emperor Maximilian the First
and later for the French Queen Mother Luis Louise of Savoy,
both of whom were involved in major political intrigues, and
as a lawyer and diplomat, he had often access to
sensitive state affairs. So I'm reading and I'm going down.
I go okay. So they were in those circles. As

(01:17:15):
to if they were actual spies or now, that's up
for debate. But again, if it quacks like a duck
and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck. So
so we have Trimetheus, we have a Cornelis agrip By,
then we have John Vere which is in there right.
So he was a living student, which was weird, like
at the age of thirteen, or fourteen, bro, which is

(01:17:36):
super weird whatever, who cares? So then I go, and
this is where I want to talk to you about this,
because did King Solomon have spies? Because King Solomon is
the father of right, the Gaatia, right, people like, oh
it was King Solomon, ce you that can control all

(01:17:57):
these demons and everything. I go, So apparently he did
have a network of spies, informants and diplomatic envoys. And
then I put in, I put in you mentioned the
that would you say the Jacobeans? Is that what you
call them?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Jacobites?

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
The Jacobites?

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
So I put secret agents in the Bible, and I
wanted to just run some of these past you because
again I'm not confirming. This is Chadgpt talking. I'm not
confirming any information yet. This is just a tip of
the iceberg bro right. So the twelve Spies of Moses
and numbers thirteen. He sent twelve spies, one from each

(01:18:38):
Israelite tribe into Canan to assess the land before attempting
to conquer it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
So when that happened was when they had left Egypt
and Moses came with twelve spies and they just got
the Canaan and it was Caleb and our guy. The
other spy was it'll hit me in a second, So

(01:19:04):
they were spies. So yeah, he sent spies in. And
the reason why they didn't go into the Promised Land
initially was because when they go in there, and there's
a verse in the Bible, it's the only the second
time in the Bible that the word Nephelim's even used.
When they go in there, I'm getting they see they
see the sons of Anak, which are tall, is that

(01:19:25):
they look like grasshoppers in their sight, is what the
verse in the Bible says. And they were of the Nepheleine,
and that's in Deuteronomy. So when they get back, the
ten of the spies go to Moses and say, no, man,
we're gonna die. There's giants all in there that we
can't do anything. And the other two spies tell Moses, no,

(01:19:51):
we can. With the power of God, we can go
in there and take them out. But the problem is
the majority said no, and they hyped up the majority
of the Israelites, so they ended up wandering the wilderness
for forty years. God wouldn't even let him in there until
all the men that didn't want to go to battle,
died and they had a new crop of men. So
after forty years they go back in there and they

(01:20:11):
end up taking out all the giants at that point,
which is like og and si On his brother and
all these other refinem at that time. So that was
the initial point of the twelve spies going in there.
Two of them were okay with it, but the other
ten hyped up the whole lot of the Israelites and

(01:20:33):
then they ended up so not even getting in there
for forty.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Years mission reconnaissance right to gather information, we got Rajab
and the spies of Jericho mission covert infiltration. Before attacking Jericho,
josh Ha sent two spies to scout the city, right, So.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Rahab and she was in this city of Jericho where
there were giants as well. So the two spies sneak
in and she protects them, She keeps them away from
the enemies there, and she gets them out safely because

(01:21:18):
they are going in there to see, you know, what
they're dealing with. Before you know, they send Joshua back.
It's Joshua and Caleb, those are the two spies, by
the way. Earlier, it's Joshua so Joshua and the Walls
of Jericho, you know the story. They march around the
walls of Jericho seven times and.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
It falls for God.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
So the deal is they tell her to leave this
red rope out of her window, and if she leaves
the red rope out of her window, she and her
family will survive, which they do. She leaves the red
rope out of the window, all the walls fall but
where she's located, and she survives. Interestingly enough, Rayhab is

(01:21:59):
one one of the few women that has been talked
about is being in the lineage of Jesus himself. So
she was actually a part of this line of David
or pre David. So she was a prostitute, which also
lends to the idea that, you know, God's grace and
glory like far surpasses anything else. And I find it interesting.

(01:22:21):
There's a lot of like sordid people who find their
way back to God who are a part of this
lineage of Jesus that's coming. But she's actually a part
part of the lineage of Jesus as well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
I know that part's that's super interesting we have here, right.
So the next one David's espionage network to Samuel fifteen
seventeen Mission Counterintelligence and Deception, the Rebellion of Absalom David
planet spies and informants in absence court. So we have that. There,

(01:22:53):
we have joe AB's use of female agent two Samuel
fourteen one to twenty, Psychological manipula relation David's general Joab
recruited a wise woman from Takoa to act as an
undercover agent. We have Nehemiah's counterintelligence efforts. Nehemiah am I
saying that right? Six, how do you say, neemayah uh?

(01:23:19):
Then we have Herad and the Magi. We have Judas
Iscarat and the betrayer's spy. So he acted as Judas
is Scariot.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
That's the Judas.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
That's that is the Judas. Right, So he says here
he acted as an informed for the chief pre secretly
negotiatd the betrayal of Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.
He spied on Jesus movement and led temple guards to
arrest him at night of voting, avoiding public resistance. His
role fits the profile of a double agent. So all right,

(01:23:52):
A lot of spies in the Bible, dude, A lot
of espionage, a lot of reconnaissance.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
A lot of war that went on in the lot
of war.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
So here's where it gets interesting, right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
That's just I'm curious where you're going.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
Let's just cook a little bit more. Let's just cook
a little bit more, bro please, because this is where
i want to get your take on it. Because I'm
like going back to the Mather stuff talking to interdimensionals
and reporting back to them or whatever, the grays, the
grays or whatever. What is the nephilum connection to intelligence

(01:24:28):
and spine? And if you look at the nephilum, right,
if we take all of what we've talked about into perspective, right,
just let's just take everything we've talked about into perspective
as a way of collecting information, as a way of
manipulating geopolitical events, global events, which I think the Nephilim

(01:24:48):
are at the center of a lot of those, right, Yeah,
the Nephilum, this is according to chat GPT and we're
just gonna talk about a little bit more. They have
connections to intelligence, espionage and secret knowledge, right. That was
the whole thing about the Nephilm. They were passing on
secret knowledge to the daughters of men and doing things

(01:25:10):
of that nature right Genesis six one through four. They
were described as the offspring of the sons of God
ben at Eloheim and human women, often interpreted as fallen
angel angels, hybrid giants, or powerful rulers that were known
for their strength, wisdom, and influence. Some traditions depict them
as keepers of hidden knowledge, which could extend to intelligence gathering, espionage,

(01:25:33):
and secret warfare. Right, so they had in the Book
of Enoch, and they knew about weapon making, war strategies, alchemy, magic, astronomy,
celestial movements, sorcery. They were like the top dogs when
it came to warfare. I mean, that's what they were
known for, right, weren't these guys known for their warfare?

(01:25:54):
They were some of the greatest warriors that there ever was.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
So like, the initial connection in Enoch was the Watchers,
which are the fallen angels.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
Think about that, Joel, The Watchers they're always watching collect Hey.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
You know what's even funnier if you know of the
Marvel universe, and even with the Marvel movies, there is
a group of beings called the Watchers and they watch
but they don't interact. And in the multiverse there's one
particular watch Marvel. There's one particular Watcher in the multiverse

(01:26:41):
saka stuff that's going on right now. He actually gets involved.
He can't allow the multiverse to die out, so he
starts pulling different heroes from different universes and creates a
multiversal Avengers, which is actually a cartoon that's on the
Disney Channel right now. I think it went three seasons
that it ended.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Of course, right Disney. So but here's what I'm struggling with.
So we have the Nephilim and ancient sp that's gonna
be hold on nephil And that's good. This is gonna
be a title Ancient Espionage, Nephilim, Ancient espionage.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
That's the time that's a title I have. I've ever
done seen one. So the spy sent to uh Kannan,
how you said in the Nephilim, when Moses spies, right,
they sent them. They're like, hey, the Canaan, they're like
grasshoppers in our site, blah blah blah. Right. The Watchers
as observers and spies. The Fallen Angels in the Book
of Narch are called watchers, which implies that their role

(01:27:40):
involves surveillance and observants Nephilim, secret societies, the idea of
nephilone passed down forbidden knowledge, nephil and modern intelligence theories,
the cult war, for psychological operations. But here's what I'm
not understanding. Right, So we have the Nephilim as ancient
spy masters, right, there were observers monitoring human actions, activities.

(01:28:00):
They shared secret war strategies and hidden knowledge. But what
I'm not understanding is where we get this aspect of
them being you know, like interdimensional and we have the
flood that wipe them all out, and then the spirits
of the Nephilom are the ones that are the demons
and all this other stuff. I'm just trying to I'm
just trying to bridge that connection as to like where

(01:28:24):
and all because again, and that's the part of the
occult where I believe there's some there might be some
truth to it. Right now, my faking gay radar is
like leaning more towards fake and gay, like the occult
is like leaning towards one side and not saying that
there isn't something there. But you get what I'm saying.
It's like all the evidence out that I've looked into

(01:28:48):
Crowley being one of them where the occult has always
been intertwined with these guys. Even you got even William
Shakespeare being a secret agent, right, And then I put here, uh,
who was Jacob in the Bible? Was he a spy?
Because you mentioned the the Jacob people there that that
were with the magic and all them. Turns out he

(01:29:11):
was later renamed Israel. Which wasn't Epstein connected to Masad
and all those people as well? Isn't that their secret
organization in Israel?

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Yeah, he was definitely connecting from Assade for a long time.
And you know Jacob. The story of Jacob is very
interesting too because of his connection with Esau, his brother. Yes,
Esau breaks out and creates the Edomites. The Edomites are,
for all intents and purposes, were connected directly to the Nephelene.

(01:29:47):
You know, some people think that Esau was the first
big Foot. You know, people talk about that all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
So that story Joel reconnaissance, disguise and deception, classic espionage tactic,
which was Jacob. Right. So so you have that connection
there as well with Esau and all them. And again
it goes, it goes, it goes deep, bro and then
you know you have so I'm like, okay, right, so

(01:30:15):
we have this interdimensional demonic aspect of the nephilum. How
could we work that in? Right? So we're and the
common denominator here is the Bible. Right right now? We
have multiple translations and multiple sources for the Bible, or

(01:30:36):
we have various texts, some saying that they're the originals,
the other one says that they're the originals. Some say
that that's a translation of the other one. We don't
really know who came first, right, I think it's the
Maseratic text. Is that? Is that the one that's that
is the official one? Or was it the u Is
it the sept two Agen is the other one?

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Yeah, you're talking about the ot right, and then you're
talking about the Septuogen the New Testament.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just talking
about the origins of the Bible and the text itself.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
I believe the first Greek translation of the New Testament
if I'm correct, and I know the Sciaticus was right
after that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
So the debate is was it in Hebrew first or
was it in Greek? Anyways, you got what I'm saying, Like,
there's debates if.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
You get the Amin Hillman route. You know, he thinks
to step two event was the very first thing, and
then the Hebrews wrote after that, which I find absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
So all William Shakespeare, right, if we take into account
Williams Shakespeare and the King James version of the Bible
and all these guys, well, William Shakespeare was also said
to have been a secret agent as well during his time,

(01:31:56):
and if we look back at the Francis Bacon connection,
him maybe being William Shakespeare or whatever, you know, the
whole conspiracy, is it a possibility that they could have
put some of this espionage stuff in there again part
of their intelligence work. I don't know. I'm just trying
to draw a bridge, you get what I'm saying. I'm

(01:32:16):
trying to where the uh, the interdimensionalism and all this
stuff of the of the Watchers coming into play, because
it always seems like every single religion, if you will,
has this same aspect there is a higher level outside

(01:32:36):
of reality influencing reality, and then there's always middleman between that.
Like they're talking, were they actually talking to interdimensionals or
was it a higher up that they just called an
interdimensional to be like hey, you know Uh, we were
talking to the watchers. Where you get you get where
I'm going with this, bro like.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
And if you look at it from just it's a
straight humanistic standpoint, it's very possible. And I'm not saying
that it's not possible.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
And I'm not saying the I'm just saying I get where.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
You're going with it, and I don't think. Here's what
I do know. So Crowley's Confessions, which was his diary
he wrote in sporadically. He would write for like a
year straight, then all of a sudden be a month missing,
and then he would just pick it up like nothing happened.

(01:33:29):
And this happened specifically in Mexico. And this is when
he was doing a lot of deep work in Mexico,
and I was getting into that anyway, So like, I'll
just shift to that part. So basically, he hits New
York Thursday, July fifth, nineteen hundred. Both as he's pulling
in there, there was a massive boat oil explosion, so

(01:33:54):
like the docks are all burning. New York's kind of
burning when he gets there. So he spends about three
days there and he writes in his diary his Confessions
that he's super hot, and he's just you know, he's
being dramatic. So he gets on the train, he gets
down to Mexico. And this is when like the real

(01:34:14):
fund starts when he gets to Mexico, because this is
when he really starts operating on more of an occult
level than he has before. Now, the initial reason why
he said he was going to Mexico was to spread

(01:34:34):
the Golden Dawn the order in Mexico. It didn't make
a lot of sense though, because he never once tried
to do any work there to do that. The old
time he's there, he's not even once trying to do that.
Now while he's there, he loves it. He goes to

(01:34:55):
Mexico City. He loves the way that people drank liquor
to get drunk. He loves the gambling, the sex, and
he likes the way that they look at their Catholic faith. Right,
he doesn't like Christianity or anything to do with it,
but he loves the way that they do it because
they're loving life, basically loving life and not really caring.

(01:35:17):
I guess about the Bible that they're reading. They're just
doing whatever. And I guess they're going to confession on Sunday,
and you know they're okay now Peripherio Diaz who was
the president at the time, and that's important. Crowley states
in his confessions that he loves him, thinks he's one
of the best presidents ever that he's ever met in

(01:35:38):
any country, and he's just all about it now while
he's there. This is in his diaries. He what starts
showing up in his diaries are his magical practices. He
starts exploration of the athers, these interplane territories ruled by
angelic figures of all these different characteristics, and they were

(01:36:02):
delineated from John d and Edward Kelly. And Crowley says
in his diaries that he has limited initiation, which is
giving him limited access. So while he's there, he's training
himself to learn the ritual of self initiation while he's there,

(01:36:25):
so he's initiating himself in these practices. He learns the
correct spelling of Abrahadabra, and he learns the jamatria and
the numerology that's equated to abrahadabra, which is four eighteen.
Anybody that wants to know that. And he says again

(01:36:47):
that he's leaning into bringing the Golden down there. He's
that's just on the surface right Now, he meets this
guy called Don Jesus de Medina and he's a fellow
Holtist and leading figure in Mexican Scottish Rite freemasonry. He
actually brings Crowley in and Crowley becomes a thirty third

(01:37:07):
degree Scottish Rite Freemason in Mexico, which is funny because
he was swooped right in to become a thirty third
degree Scottish Right freemason in Mexico, but he was denied
access in the States, and that's why he hated Freemasons
in the States. They didn't want really anything to do
with him. He didn't want anything to do with them

(01:37:27):
after they basically snubbed him. And I get it because
everywhere else he went he was allowed in. Now he
and Don Hasu's form this society called the Lamp of
the Invisible Light. It's their own secret society. While while
they're there so part of this creation of this secret society,

(01:37:50):
Crowley starts doing all these rituals. Of course, he's still
trying to perform this operation of the sacred magic of
abramellon ma Age. He's he hasn't figured it out yet
He does figure it out later on when he gets
back in England, but he does not figure it out yet.

(01:38:10):
And but part of that is him learning knowledge and
conversation with Holy Guardian, Holy Guardian Angels and higher and
divine genius how to connect to what you were just
talking about these other entities, because at this point he
hasn't really figured any of this out yet, and this
is far before the Book of the Law in him

(01:38:31):
meeting Iowa, so he hasn't even met his personal Holy
Guardian Angel yet. But as a part of these rituals,
and this is all in his diaries, he tries to
start summoning and invoking these Abramellon classification of four princes

(01:38:51):
of the demons Lucifer, Leviath and Satan and Bellile and
eight sub princes Astaroth, Maggot, Asthmo, d Beelzebub, Orions, paymon
Eraton and Amion, and all of them were subject to
the will of the Lord of the Universe. Now he
and Don Hayesu's are doing or trying to invoke these

(01:39:14):
entities in their mourning invocations. And this is a part
of this invisible Light, this order of the invisible Light
that they're trying to bring these entities to fruition, try
to connect these entities to try to get these things
to happen. Now, Hazus was super impressed with his knowledge

(01:39:36):
of the Kabbalah, and Crowley actually spelled it with a
Q and I found that interesting, especially if we want
to tie it into QAnon and some of the things
that went through that, right, So I think that there's
definitely a correlation there as well. But it's very important
that he joined this Order of Freemasonry at the thirty

(01:39:58):
third degree with Don Hayesus because we just brought up
the president who was one second, sorry about that, remember
his name either, so Dis yeah, so Das, And part

(01:40:18):
of him joining this order of Freemasonry to meet with
Peripheral Daz was to buddy buddy up with him because England,
who was changing over how they fueled their boats from
coal to oil, they needed the oil to be able

(01:40:43):
to create the petroleum to be able to do this.
So Crowley gets with Peripheral Daz and d As actually
brokers the deal right after that with the heads over
in the intel apartments or just the head over this

(01:41:04):
section of patrol him and all that and connects them together,
and they broke her the deal. They got the deal
over the US, they got the deal over all these
other countries that were trying to get it because this
time was very hot. You wanted oil because oil could
do a lot for you. And if you're changing over
the fuel systems in your boats, this is what you

(01:41:25):
want to do. Funny enough, right after that deal's done,
Crowley's gone, leaves Mexico. He doesn't even stay around. He's gone.
But I think this is that classic duality. I believe
he literally was there. I think he was trying to
invoke these entities. He talks about it in his diaries.

(01:41:48):
Now you're wondering how I want to tie it into
what you just said. I believe that in his diaries
that he did have knowledge that was specifically for secret intelligence.
And I think that some of what you were just
talking about, some of these magical invocations and some of

(01:42:11):
that did have that layered in. That has been suggested
even by Richard B. Spence, that if somebody was to
find his diaries, that they there was nothing in it
outside of occult knowledge.

Speaker 1 (01:42:25):
And hey, I'm cryptography, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
I'm just doing my thing. I'm climbing mountains right, talking
to angels. But there would be these big gaps, like
when he was in Mexico, there was this one gap
for like a month and a half to two months,
and then all of a sudden, he just picks it
up and starts writing again, like it was the next day,
but it's not, it's two months later. What happened during
that gap of time? What's going on there? So he

(01:42:48):
would just go off the map a lot. And I
think those were times when he was legitimately on certain missions.
And I do think that he was very careful with
what he wrote in his diary because if somebody was
to get a hold of his diaries that was a
part of some other intelligence group, you wouldn't want them
to know what it was. But I do believe in

(01:43:08):
those diaries, if someone in his organization had read them,
there were probably things layered in that would have been deciphered.
And it may have been deciphered too if something happened
to him, you know, if he died or something like that,
within those layers that was there. Listen, this is what
I honestly think about Crowley. One. I honestly believe he

(01:43:30):
was an occultist. I honestly believe he was deeply involved
in magic, and I think he was very good at it.
I don't think he was a charlatan to that extent.
I think he loved it, but I do think that
he was still a charlatan too. I think he was
also a triple agent, so I do think that that's
there too. So we're never really gonna know the truth, right,
We're just gonna have these pieces of his life and

(01:43:53):
slowly piece some of that together and speculate. That's all
we can do. Listen, we've got our own federal government
telling Richard B. Spence that we're not giving you anything
on Crowley. He didn't even said he didn't have it.
We're just not going to give it to you. They
had a lot, They have stuff on him. We know

(01:44:14):
for a fact, I just showed you the slip. We
know that MI I five or six had paperwork on him.
We don't know what it was. It disappeared when they
were you know, O fell out.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
I don't know redacted. And think about this, bro, so
you're talking about what a better way than to hide
and you know, hidden in plain sight. So it looks
really bad if you have a foreign power sending and
establishing a military base on your land. But hey, it's
just a secret society, freedom of religion, right, absolutely, right,

(01:44:52):
And it just so happens to be that the people
who run the country just so happened to be also
involved in this stuff. If it is bullshit or not,
we don't know, right. I think maybe they thought that
there were magicians and when in reality, I'm sure he
was invoking these things and nothing was happening. Oh well,
let's just move on, right. It's like, so, what a

(01:45:12):
better way than to infiltrate a government than by masquerading
as even a church bro like any other, any church
that you know that, which I'm sure we just read
Biblical espionage and there's been books written on the whole
thing too, I mean, hidden in plain sight. And and
it goes back to what I said at the beginning,
where the lethal knowledge and the esoteric and forbidden knowledge

(01:45:38):
isn't like, hey, you know how to invoke bills above
or whatever. It's like, no, I saw the president of
such country doing x y z to x y z,
and I've got a video of it that will get
you killed. Not or a I invoke bales above and
I have the formula of the goetic formula. How to

(01:46:00):
do that? Maybe that's code for what I just said, like, hey,
we got the formula of all or whatever, you know,
invoking It's like, I got it. You just move on,
you know, you seal the deal and you move on.
The point is that these governmental entities are using this
is a facade. Oh shit, look at that. The government

(01:46:25):
just knocked over my my mind. Dude, We're getting too
close to the truth. Bro, Dude, you saw it was okay.
So anyways, yeah, dude, you just opened up a can
of worms. And I'm looking at this from a whole

(01:46:48):
different perspective, and they're trying to silence me right now
by knocking my.

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
And I agree with you on and I've definitely been
down that road mentally with how I thought about a
lot of this, because, to be honest with you, when
I really got back into studying Crawley about two years ago,
I really took the occulted part out and just started
looking at the man and just the machinations of a

(01:47:16):
normal human being, right or what we would consider a normy.
And I started looking at some of those things as
I was looking into him being a secret agent, and
I totally agree with you. I just personally think that
there is a magic occult side of it too. I
think it's married together, and I do think that you

(01:47:38):
are spot on with some of those, especially his diary,
and we're just talking about anybody else that's a part
of the quote unquote occult world. And then a secret
agent that they probably got some sort of codex or
something that's written in the spaces, written in the lines
that they could literally be doing two things it once.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
They could be talking about and that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
Invoking something seriously. But at the same time, how about this.
We know that governments since we were just talking about
the Book of Edoch, but we know about governments being
connected to quote unquote interdimensional beings and all this stuff anyway,
So why wouldn't it be a marriage of both. Why
wouldn't it be the combination of both if there's a

(01:48:24):
way to be able to do both at the same time,
and still if somebody picked it up, have no clue
what's going on. But that's the ultimate that's the ultimate.

Speaker 1 (01:48:33):
Level up and think about it, dude. It's because I
think we focus on like this compartmentalization of all these
different aspects, like when people study John Dee, they just
study as a cult. They don't study his political they
don't study his geographical influence. They do And it's like
how you're saying, they're all married together, and you just
got to be able to step back and go, wait

(01:48:54):
a minute, let's look at a little bit of this,
a little bit of that, and a little bit of that,
and it starts and then you can make those connections.
So I'm just looking at it from a different perspective.
I'm stepping back and going, I know this is what
I know, but let's step back and look at it
from a different way, Like could it all be this?
And it it makes sense to them? I can't. I'm

(01:49:16):
still gonna do the research. But there's I can see it,
like I can see the vision right of this being
some sort of network sprinkled in with some of the
real right. Yeah, Or even if they perceive that they
were doing what they were doing right, because that's another thing,
like if you perceive that you're doing something that's a

(01:49:37):
whole other aspect like that, you know, and if you
bring in like the espionage and all this other stuff,
it's like, well, what a better way than to enter
a character like quite literally and become a different part.
And that's the whole thing about the occult, right you
have to The way I've come to understand it is,
even if you're not bringing forth a change with your

(01:49:58):
invocations or whatever it is, you're putting yourself in a
state of mind in order to bring forths some change
or accept the change that's going to come, right, And
that's like training yourself to to you know, opening yourself
up essentially.

Speaker 2 (01:50:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:11):
So I don't know, man, I have a lot more
questions than answers at this point, but it's super interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
Nonetheless, it's always going to be that way. And dude,
I've been studying this part of Curley for about two
years now. Then I don't even think I've even gotten
close to anything, and I'm still studying it, and it's
just going to be again. When I took the occult
part out of Crowley and I just started looking at
him working for the government, gave me a whole different

(01:50:39):
perspective of a lot of what he was doing. Just
like you said, I think that some of the stuff
he was writing could have been completely benign, could have
been something that was used in a different sector. It
might not even been quote unquote occulted knowledge at all.
It might have been it might have been hidden knowledge
in the sense for the reader, but it might not

(01:51:02):
have been something that was actually trying to invoke.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
But that's the thing, that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
Angelic being or whatever else. However, I think he was
doing that too.

Speaker 1 (01:51:11):
You will have people who will read these things and
they take it at face value. So they take all
the workings of Abra Mellan and all the Enochian workings
and they quite literally establish the Golden Dawn off of
it and all these other things and look at it.
You look at even freemasonry, where it's got a lot

(01:51:32):
of Egyptian iconography and influences within that. So you have
people who are taking these concepts and then doing something
even if there wasn't anything to start from the beginning,
which is fine too. It's called LARPing, your role playing.
And again you're doing your little rituals and doing everything
to make yourself feel good or invoke asmodeus or whoever

(01:51:53):
it is that you're invoking, and you're taking a system
that you really didn't know anything about and just you know,
that's chaos magic, dude. You're making it and using it
for whatever you want, which is fine. You know, we
all have a way of coping with things. We all
have a way of looking at reality the way that
we do, and sometimes that involves using different systems. For

(01:52:14):
some people, it's the Christian Church, the Bible, you know,
the King James version or whatever. For other people it's Hinduism,
or for other people it's Taoism. For other people it's
whatever you insert your and it's just a system of
beliefs to portray the world and perceive reality in whichever
way you want, which is totally okay. Right, So yeah, dude,

(01:52:35):
it's super super interesting in my opinion, and you just
open up like a whole. I'm just making connections how
I'm like what, and a lot of stuff starts making sense.
And again, I could be making sense of stuff that
doesn't even need to be made sense of, right, Like
I could be interpreting it completely different and I'm not.
And I don't have like anything of a breakthrough, And

(01:52:55):
I just think I made this breakthrough and it's like, no,
you're just you know, paradolia or whatever, your connect dots
where they're not even there, which that's also a possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
I think you're I think you're onto something there, because
that's something that I yeah, and you know, I've read
Crowley a ton of his stuff and specifically his diaries,
and some stuff just seemed weird, like why is this gear?
Like what is he talking about poetry? Right? And then

(01:53:24):
even outside the poetry, where it'll just be what are
you yapping about right now? That doesn't make any sense?
And then and then if you look at it from
the lens of oh, so this might have been some
sort of codex, or this might have been something else,
especially when we really look at him being this secret
agent working for British intelligence. And listen, no matter what

(01:53:50):
anyone says about Crowley, the guy was stupid smart again.
He went to Trinity College in Cambridge, and guys that
go there or not stupid, they're just not any graduated.
The guy's smart. And if you just want to say
he's a charlottetan cool, that works very well with him
being a secret agent. Y, so all these things work.

(01:54:14):
He had the perfect formula for what they were looking
for because he's bisexual, which means that they could infiltrate
him in either side. Because women loved him and men
loved him too. He was very he had that Riz,
bro he did. That's the perfect way to put it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
He had that alchemical Riz.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
He had that eighteen ninety Riz.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
I'd be interested to see that that class roster and
seeing who else in that class also turned out to
be a political figure or somebody else, you know, in
in some other place of power. Which again, a lot
of these schools, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, a lot of these
schools seems to be more of a recruiting center for

(01:55:00):
a lot of intelligence stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
Right. Trinity College is one of them. And I'm going
to tell you right now that I have studied a
ton of different historical figures over the past year, and
almost all of them, the ones I'm really interested in,
went to Trinity College. And I just find this weird
thread where they're all coming out of Trinity College. I'm like,

(01:55:23):
what is going on? What's going on here? I mean,
even the father of the computer went to Trinity College
in Cambridge, So.

Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
Your boy, yeah, I look at that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:38):
I've just seen it. Yeah, I'm just saying that they're
all come out of this one place.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
Damn, dude, listen, where can people find you? Where can
people go listen to all the other interesting podcasts you
put out because you put all the podcasts along this
same line of thinking, where can they go?

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Yeah, find me at Free the Rabbits. If you're looking
to just get to everything I do, go to link
tree Slash Free the Rabbits and you'll find everything. But
if you're looking for the podcast, just go to Free
the Rabbits on YouTube, rumble. You can find Free the
Rabbits on any other audio platform. And if you're looking

(01:56:19):
for my music, you just hype in Joel Thomas on
any music streaming platform as well. I've got a ton
of films that are coming out this year. We've got
two films, got one coming out in like two or
three months where we went to this place called The
Metal Project. We had to sign an NDA to go there,
and we ended up finding some really weird stuff that

(01:56:40):
you know, isn't explainable. And then we shot another film
with you and Isaac Weissop and Tony Merkle and that
was just a fantastic journey of a marriage between information
and boots on the ground. So it's our first documentary
that's that type of style, and it's all based around

(01:57:00):
crow Lee and his connections with the government. And interdimensional beings.

Speaker 1 (01:57:06):
So keep an eye out for that. Make sure to
check him out links down in the description. Make sure
to follow me on social media at the One on
One Podcast. If you enjoyed this, make sure to subscribe
to the YouTube channel Juan on Juan. Make sure to
follow on the RSS feed. If you're over on the
YouTube and you just want to get the audio, pop
it into a podcast player, listen, listen to it while

(01:57:27):
you're at work or whatever it is. And if you're
interested in more episodes per week, Patreon dot com slash
the One on one Podcast. I'm putting out two three
extra episodes a week early access, so you'll have this
episode early if you're on there, and you'll see it
a week or two before it comes out. And yeah,
that's pretty much him. Make sure you want merch links

(01:57:48):
all down to the description and it's always everyone, See
you on the next one

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#246 | Secret Agent Crowley, Biblical Spies, and Ancient Nephilim Espionage with Joel Thomas

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#246 | Secret Agent Crowley, Biblical Spies, and Ancient Nephilim Espionage with Joel Thomas