August 14, 2025 • 59 mins
In this heartfelt episode, I welcome back my friend and former guest Archer Gray for a deeply moving conversation about the profound benefits of hospice care—not only for patients nearing the end of life, but also for the families and loved ones who walk alongside them. Together, we explore what hospice truly is, how it prioritizes quality of life, and why it’s ultimately about living fully in each moment rather than focusing solely on the end.
You’ll gain an intimate look at the remarkable individuals—like Archer—who feel called to this life changing work. From deep empathy and unwavering patience to resilience and emotional strength, we highlight the qualities that make hospice workers true unsung heroes. Their unique ability to combine medical expertise with heartfelt human connection creates a safe, loving space during one of life’s most vulnerable chapters.
Whether you’ve experienced hospice care firsthand or are simply curious about how it works, this conversation will open your heart and your eyes to its powerful impact—and to the extraordinary people behind it. My sincere thanks to Archer for sharing so openly and courageously about a topic that is often difficult, yet so important, to discuss with those we love.
To follow Archer on Instagram, visit https://www.instagram.com/archer_fit757/
To learn more about Hospice Care, visit https://www.medicare.gov/ and remembet to get educated and talk to your health care provider.
Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!
Remember to like, rate, share and subscribe to the JUST DO YOU. podcast in order to receive our weekly episode updates! If you like what you hear, please leave us a review at Apple Podcasts!
To follow us on Instagram, visit: https://www.instagram.com/justdoyoupod/
Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll? Visit: https://ericnicoll.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello everyone.
Welcome to the Just To YouPodcast.
My name is Eric Nicole, and I'myour host.
If you are a first timelistener, welcome to the
conversation and if you're aregular, I'm honored that you've
decided to join me for anotherepisode.
The Just Do You Podcast iscentered around a network of
conversations, which are meantto connect us, to inspire us, to
find our own confidence, our ownvoice, and to live our own
(00:27):
truth.
And who knows, we might evenlearn a little something new
that ultimately allows us tolive in the sweet spot that I
like to call the Just do youspace of being.
Each week, I have the privilegeof sitting down for unscripted
conversations with friends,family, colleagues, community
leaders, and influencers thatall share their own personal
journeys.
(00:48):
I hope that you enjoy our timetogether as much as I have.
We are certainly gonna laugh,and yes, we might even cry a
little, but in the end, we aregonna know that we're not alone
during our life's journey.
So are you ready?
Great.
Let's do this.
Welcome to the conversation.
All right, everyone.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Just You Podcast.
(01:10):
I am really excited to welcomeback one of my favorite guests,
Archer Gray.
Hey Archer.
Hey.
How are you?
I'm fantastic.
Thanks for having me again.
Good.
It's good to see you.
We were chatting a little bitbefore we hit record today and I
realized that it's been quite awhile actually since you've been
on, but you are actually nowwinning the title of the guest
(01:34):
who has been on our podcast themost as of today.
So I'm super excited to have youback for your third visit.
So for our listeners, I justwant to quickly introduce Archer
and then we're going to get intoour conversation today.
But I met Archer actually in aroundabout way through social
media.
I think as we find our friendsand followers these days is by
searching social media.
(01:55):
And I came across Archer'splatform last year, and was
really taken by Archerspresentation, if you will, of
himself and his authenticity andreally sharing his journey as a
trans man.
And I invited Archer to come onto the podcast and he graciously
spent some time with us, sharingabout his journey.
(02:18):
I then invited Archer to comeback in June.
So he came back and joined usfor a second episode where we
checked in after the election,and it was a really powerful
episode.
And I'm super grateful forArcher's honesty and his
candidness, and mostly for yourway of sharing your life with
(02:40):
others in a way that leaves themin a better space to learn about
what it means to be trans, whatit means to be part of the
L-G-B-T-Q community and what itmeans to live a life of
authenticity and a life out inthe open.
And I'm really proud of you forcontinuing to do the work that
(03:01):
you do and sharing that journeywith us through your social
media.
So thank you for that.
You've come on today, there's awhole other side to you that we
didn't really get a chance totalk about in our first two
episodes, and that is what youdo for your day job.
So I wanted to spend a littletime with you today because I
found it really fascinating andI'm gonna let you share your
(03:22):
journey of how you got to workin the hospice field.
But it is a really beautiful andremarkable.
Journey and you're gonna help usdispel some myths about hospice
and you're gonna share some ofyour experience and why it is
not only important, but it'ssomething that can be incredibly
(03:43):
beneficial to not only theindividual but also their
family.
So thanks again for coming ontoday and sharing with us.
Yeah, I'm really glad that Icould be here and share a little
bit about something else thatI'm, passionate about.
And it didn't start that way,everybody has this possible
roadmap of maybe what they wantto do when they grow up and I
was like any other kid and had15 options and then had went
(04:07):
into healthcare management, wasmy degree and I was like, I'm
just gonna work business side,in an office or whatever.
And never thought about workinglong-term care.
Never thought about working withthe elderly.
And then it literally landed inmy lap.
My brother and I both werewaiters at different restaurants
(04:28):
at this point in time, and hehappened to be serving a group
of people who came in and theywere like, Hey, you're really
good with like customer service.
Would you be interested in maybeworking for a hospice company?
And my brother was like actuallymy brother has the healthcare
degree, so maybe, and we do thesame thing as far as customer
(04:48):
service.
Sure.
So I was like, hospice.
I was like, oh, that's, oh.
Everybody's reaction when I tellthem I do hospice.
Ugh.
But I was like, all right, letme call.
Like at this point I had justgraduated and.
No one, everybody wants you tohave so much experience with so
much school.
It was like all right, I'll justgive it a chance and see.
(05:11):
I don't know.
And so this particular personhad told the company that I was
going for that, they were gonnahire me and the administrator at
the time who I owe pretty mucheverything to everything that
I've learned.
She's an amazing human.
I don't think I'd be where I am,really without her and her
support not only for hospice,but, accepting me, sure.
(05:34):
Really.
But was like, I'm not hiringthis person and had it in her
mind that she was not gonna hireme.
So I go to the interview and sitthere and she jokes with me now
and says, like halfway throughthe interview, she's damnit, I
hire him.
Was, but dang, I guess I'm, shegets this one on me, she's
telling me who I'm gonna hire.
(05:54):
And so I did.
And yeah.
Before you go down that routethough, I want to back up just a
little bit.
So I'm curious,'cause youmentioned something.
So what were some of the otheroptions that you were thinking
about before you took thisopportunity in care?
What were some of'em?
I was gonna do I wanted to dolike hospital administration.
Okay.
Very acute care, very notdealing with families or people
(06:16):
or anything very long.
Just get'em in, get'em out.
Okay.
Whatever that looked like.
Okay.
My professor for school was oldhospital administration, so he
made it sound kind of fun.
Either.
And you got your, either that orjust like a doctor's office.
What did you get your degree in?
So I have my bachelor's inhealthcare management.
Okay.
And then I have my master's in,it's a master's in business with
(06:39):
a concentration in healthcareadministration.
Okay.
So I went a totally differentroute.
In my head I was thinking maybefiremen or, it's like a fireman.
Oh, marine biology.
But then I marine biologist.
So we went healthcare rightafter that because was like,
okay, there's no going anywhere.
I was going, healthcare,staying, but I was going down
some very different paths withyou.
I was like, gotcha.
Wonder what that would be?
(06:59):
No Marine biology.
I want to work at SeaWorld.
And then found out I got seasickand they're like, now you gotta
do like research on the oceanbefore you ever get the option
to maybe work at SeaWorld ifyou're lucky.
This is not feeding Shamu.
The fish on the side of the, onthe side of the walkway.
Step back a little bit and just'cause I forget, I know you so
well now, but I forget some ofour listeners don't.
Where did you grow up?
(07:20):
So I grew up in a town calledHarrisonburg, Virginia.
Okay.
If anybody knows colleges, it'sthe James Madison University
area.
Okay.
And were you only child or didyou have siblings?
No, I had a younger brother.
Younger brother, that's right.
'cause you both were waiters.
Okay, I remember that.
Yep.
And then where did you go off toschool?
So I decided to not go to JMU'cause I was marine biology, so
(07:43):
they were like, you probablyneed to go somewhere near the
water.
So that was a good point.
So I came down here and went toODU.
Okay.
When I found out I couldn't dothat anymore I switched to a
college that was like the moreaccelerated program and it was
called South University.
Okay.
And so I got my undergrad and mygrad from there.
Okay.
And then you've been there thewhole time, so you've stayed in
(08:05):
that area, okay.
And.
When you shared with us beforeyou told the story you
transitioned, give us a littlebit of background on that.
When did you trans start yourtransition?
I transitioned in 2021.
Okay.
Was when I first changed myname, socially.
Transitioned that summer andthen started hormones that fall
(08:27):
in November.
Okay, so I'm gonna encourage ourlisteners to go back.
If you haven't heard both ofArcher's podcast episodes, to go
back and listen to those.
You can find those on ourplatform's.
Really remarkable story and whenI sit and talk to you today even
over the last year and a halfthat you and I have been friends
the transformation of who youare in the world has just been
(08:49):
remarkable to watch.
And so I'm super proud.
I want people to go back andreally take in the story.
And why I think it's importantis because a lot of times on our
episodes, I talk about how ourexperiences, when we're young
and growing up shape us for whatwe do in our future.
And the more I listen to myguest stories, whether they're,
male, female, part of theL-G-B-T-Q community figuring it
(09:12):
out, thinking about it, workingit out a lot of their
experiences in their youngeryears, I.
Remarkably translate into whatthey do in the future, right?
In their adult years.
And so when we talk abouthospice and you talk about what
it really means to take care ofsomeone, I want you to share a
little bit about that.
But I think it's reallyinteresting.
(09:32):
I think that a lot of what youshared in those first two
episodes really showed yourcompassion for people and not
only your passion for life andfor living a life that's
authentic and living a life thatis your truth, but your
compassion for other people andyour community is really it's
visible.
I can really sense it and feelit.
(09:54):
Did that have a lot of play intoyour desire to go into this
healthcare field, whether it wasadministratively or ultimately
with hospice?
Did you think about that or no?
Not in the beginning.
Because I think I was the, Ithink I was really lost and I
(10:16):
don't know how to word it.
I feel like I very much was justlike, I just want to do I always
wanted to help people.
I had that in the back of mymind.
But I really wasn't sure how orwhat to do.
But then feeling not helpfulmyself at one point.
Because I didn't really know whoI was.
I would say that I've gottenbetter at my job since doing
(10:36):
that.
Since discovering myself.
Yeah.
And so I don't know if thathelped where I, like you truly
fall in love with something andbecome more passionate about it.
But I think.
There was always just this, Ilike helping, I liked making
people smile.
So even as a waiter, that's whatI did through school.
When I had the tables where Imade them smile, I, they had a
(10:56):
good experience.
We had, a good time.
We both laughed back and forthor whatever.
And it wasn't necessarily, itwasn't really like about the
tip, it was like the experience.
And if I had that, then I feltlike I did something.
That I was useful, even if I wasjust a waiter and, hopefully
just made an impact for an hourover their steak and, or pasta
(11:17):
dish.
And just made it memorable inthat so that they'd want to come
back.
And I think that's alwayssomething that I strive to do.
But I just don't think I had itfigured out that it would be
healthcare.
Because when I went into thethought of healthcare, I was
like, I'm gonna sit behind thedesk and not talk to.
Which I find, but that reallywasn't what I wanted to do
either.
No, I no.
(11:37):
I, there's no way you sit behinda desk with your personality and
your energy and your positivity.
You've gotta be, was that whenyou were at Cheesecake Factory?
Yes.
Yep.
I love Cheesecake Experience.
I really, I love the storybecause when you shared about,
the first time you put thatuniform on and really felt.
In your body and felt like youand how it completely changed
(11:58):
you.
I would've loved to have seenthe difference in your service
prior to that.
Then when you made thatrealization that you finally
felt like yourself would've beencool.
'cause I only know you as now.
And I know, and I would thinkthat I said, if you were the
waiter at Cheesecake Factory,I'd probably be 400 pounds.
'cause I'd probably come backand, dine there all the time.
Because I, I'm a big peoplewatcher too, and I love to watch
(12:20):
servers and it's it's alwaysinteresting to me when you see
certain people that are in theservice industry, not just in
restaurants, but serviceindustry as a whole.
And there are some where you go,how did you get into service to
helping people?
Because I don't think it's yourstrong suit to other people who
are like, oh my gosh, this is soyou, so I get that.
(12:40):
So jumping back to where youstarted.
So you were sitting in thisinterview.
And the person you wereinterviewing with was like, oh,
damnit, I'm gonna end up hiringthis person.
What happened after that?
Like where did you go from thereand tell us a little bit about
what that's as you enter thisworld of hospice.
Because I would imagine knowingwhat I know of end of life and
what I've experienced, whichunfortunately hasn't been a lot
(13:01):
lost obviously both sets ofgrandparents and recently my
dad, but, very differentcircumstances.
But I, I would think that'sgotta be, it was tough for me.
That would've had to have beenan interesting conversation to
have in your head about whatthat process is like.
What was that like for you?
I was able to go throughsomething.
About a year prior, so a yearprior to the interview for
(13:24):
hospice my mother, my aunt andmy uncle were all three
diagnosed with cancers withinabout two weeks of each other.
Wow.
And fortunately they're allstill here, so I am very
grateful for, their treatmentand everything that they were
able to go through.
But I had that realization of Icould possibly lose my mother.
(13:45):
And so sitting in the interview,it was if that had been the
route and or if her cancer comesback.
'cause that's always in the backof my mind, if it comes back and
if there's no positive outcomethis time, what's that look
like?
And so I knew that I would wanther to have a.
(14:08):
Care with people that are goingto be genuine and authentic.
And love on her and make surethat she is not in pain.
And that was my firstintroduction to hospice of we
take care of people and makesure that they have quality of
life and comfort.
And I hadn't really known that.
And so when I thought about thefact that could have been my
mother or could still be her inthe future in however long, or
(14:33):
my aunt or my uncle, I wantedthat for them.
And so I really wanted to thenlearn anything and everything
that I could about hospice.
Yeah.
De define what hospice care is.
'cause some people may not know.
So hospice is a Medicarebenefit.
It's actually paid for at ahundred percent underneath
people's Medicare benefits.
(14:54):
And then commercial plansusually, sometimes they'll have.
End of life benefits, sometimesthey don't, but then you can
have them based off like yourdeductible and stuff like that.
But for the most part, we'relooking at your 65 and older
Medicare, or if you have aterminal illness prior to 65,
and sometimes you can still beon the Advantage plans which
(15:14):
would still then revert totraditional Medicare Part A,
which pays for hospice.
Is there a difference betweenhospice care and palliative
care?
Yes.
So palliative care is more likesomebody that's not quite ready
for hospice.
So the way that I alwaysdescribe it is somebody still
doing treatment.
They still want to do a couplemore rounds of chemo, a couple
(15:36):
more rounds of radiation.
They're being managed, painmanagement usually, and they're
managed by a nurse practitioner.
And that nurse practitioner isusually, it falls under the home
health umbrella.
So palliative is not under thesame umbrella as hospice.
Okay.
Okay.
So it's a.
Precursor to hospice then.
So it's more of a precursor tohospice?
It can be, or, okay.
It can be most people.
(15:57):
I say that the only time it'sreally a precursor is if it's
like we have these five roundsof chemo left and we really want
to do them, then absolutely youshould, and then you should
still be managed by that nursepractitioner who can make sure
that your pain is where it needsto be.
Or if there's still like alittle bit of hope for these
treatments that you're doing,then that's where I would like,
say palliative.
So that you're not alone, youdon't have, nobody would be your
(16:20):
best bet.
A lot of people say they wantpalliative when they're hospice
eligible, because palliative isa much easier word to swallow
than hospice.
Sure.
What are some of the myths abouthospice care?
So a lot of the big myths isthat hospice, that means that
you're giving up, that you'rejust.
You're gonna be put in a bed andfed morphine through a vein and
(16:44):
we're gonna put a pillow overyour head and smother you.
That hospice is somebody's lastday or two of life.
I would say those are some ofthe big ones that they stop all
of your medications.
You can't keep your doctor.
You have to be a DNR.
So there's a lot of big onesthat people go through when they
hear hospice.
(17:05):
But in addition, it's just gonnahave that black cloud around the
name.
But if they changed the name,that eventually when people
realized that was end of life,that would also have the same
Sure.
Kind of black cloud.
So it's predominantly thoughthat black cloud because of a
conversation, right?
Or not being educated about whatit really is, because it's
(17:25):
difficult to talk about, thattime in your life.
It's difficult to talk about,people who potentially could be
near the end of their life andwhat that care looks like.
I have a couple friends that aregoing through that with their
parents and they don't know howto talk about it or even how to
begin the conversation becausethey just don't want to think
about it.
I am guilty of that.
I, my mom's very healthy by thegrace of God, but I don't want
(17:46):
to think about what that lookslike down the road and, would
she need care and what wouldthat look like and how we would
handle that.
So I'm even, that's why I wasinterested in having this
conversation with you today?
It's because it's something thatI think we all need to be aware
of and what that process is andthat it's available.
And it doesn't alwaysnecessarily mean somebody who's
elderly.
It doesn't mean someone who's intheir last years of life.
(18:07):
It could be someone who'syounger, like you said, going
through, cancer or going throughsome other type of illness.
Correct.
Like it's not just an elderlyperson's next step.
It's anybody with a terminalillness.
Yeah.
Or terminal diagnosis.
And I find that, so my rolespecifically is sales and
marketing, but I'm not reallymarketing hospice.
(18:28):
'cause you've paid for it, soI'm not marketing you to give me
any money or stuff like that.
Sure.
I market my company.
And then I market the knowledgethat I have from the education
that I want to share.
So really I just try and educatethese facilities, but.
A lot of the facilities know,about hospice and so if they're
(18:49):
sending or feeling like somebodymight be eligible, then it's my
job to sit down with thefamilies and help the families
understand what it looks likeand what's next for their loved
one.
Because you don't want to haveto think about it.
And I recently did an eventwhere people would come up and
they were like, oh, hospice, Ihope I never need it.
And that's the biggest thingthat I always hear is, I hope I
(19:10):
never need you.
And I'm like, but everybody'sgonna die.
That is the one thing we'renever gonna just skip.
All of us are going to gothrough it.
And unfortunately the just, Ihope that I'm just gonna go to
sleep and pass away in my sleepis super rare.
Where you're just gonna go.
And honestly, it's almostsomething that I don't know that
(19:30):
everybody would really wish thatthey could have that if they got
to choose, because that justmeans that you don't ever get to
tell your loved ones reallygoodbye.
You're just gonna say goodnightand then never wake up.
You don't have things set inplace for what's next after your
passing.
You don't have the goodbyes andthe stories and the hugs and the
(19:52):
time that you can still havewhile being on hospice.
And that's where I find it to beimportant because then you do
get to say goodbye, you do getto have, and then maybe you're
ready too.
If you just go to sleep onenight, maybe you're not ready,
yourself ready.
And I don't know that anybody'sever ready, but I think at some
(20:13):
point then you become ready andit's in like an acceptance.
But if you're ready and thenyour family's ready and they're
made ready by having this teamcome in and take care of so many
things.
Yeah.
I think that helps.
Yeah.
The process be a little bit moresmooth.
Yeah.
I had a beautiful experiencewith it, with my grandmother, my
(20:34):
dad's mom.
I was her primary caregiverthrough most of her later years.
And I had to make the difficultdecision to move her from her
apartment.
She was in her nineties and shewas living on her own.
And I would come over and visitand the stove would be on or,
things like that.
She was still trying to driveand was hitting, trash cans in
the alley.
(20:54):
And so I had to take her caraway and, it was a very
difficult process to, to helpher through that'cause she was
so stink and independent andvery stubborn.
But I remember we had to makethe choice to find a beautiful
place for her to move where shecould be cared for and.
I knew something was not right.
I was intuitive enough and hadspent enough time with her to
(21:15):
know that there was a decline,that there started to be some
issues and some problems withher health, and it wasn't just
her memory, and I found thisbeautiful.
Facility in Montrose near whereI grew up and where she lived.
And it was five rooms and theywere beautifully decorated and
the woman that owned thefacility was lovely, and the
other people that were therewere all women.
(21:36):
And it was like walking into ahouse of five of your
grandmothers and it was justthis beautiful spot.
And I remember helping her moveand we moved her in this one
afternoon, it was nearChristmas, and got her all
settled and she was sitting inbed and I was able to hug her
and I said, I'll see youtomorrow.
I'll come check on you.
And said goodbye.
And I got in the car and there'sa whole other part of the story
(21:59):
where it was a couple daysbefore Christmas and I ended up
going into a major huge mallhere in, in Los Angeles.
And she unfortunately had amassive stroke about 30 minutes
after I left.
And I was, actually found by mypartner at the time coming up
the escalator of this massiveshopping center, and he said
(22:20):
that your grandmother has had astroke.
And we unfortunately had tobring in a team to help her.
They couldn't care for herthere.
And I remember the team thattook care of her and the
decisions that we had to makeand the.
Difficulty in which, you know,the struggle, obviously she was
struggling, but we werestruggling as her family as her
primary caregiver and as theexecutor of her estate to make
(22:42):
those decisions that are notalways easy to make right.
To sign the those documentsthat, that will make her most
comfortable.
And we knew we probably didn'thave a lot of time with her, but
if it wasn't for the caregiversthat were there to take care of
her, I don't know what Iwould've done because I wasn't
ready to say goodbye to her.
(23:03):
And yet I knew it was her time.
And I think sometimes, and maybeyou've experienced this and you
can share a little bit about it,but those that are left, living
can be a little selfish.
I self admit it, that I just, Iwasn't ready to say goodbye to
her, and it wasn't until I satwith her one night.
And she had very laboredbreathing and they had gotten
her through that process.
(23:23):
And she had started to say hershe couldn't say her goodbyes,
but people were coming in andsaying their goodbyes like my
dad and other members of thefamily.
And I remember sitting with herand holding her hand and I said,
we love you and it's just beenso amazing to be your grandson,
and I just want you to know thatwe've got you.
And the caregiver walked methrough this process of how to
(23:44):
say goodbye and to give herpermission, to go if it was, if
she was ready.
And I remember saying thosewords to her and left her that
evening.
And, next morning at work atnine forty five, I got a phone
call that she had passedpeacefully.
After this very.
Tumultuous couple of days.
And I remember saying to my mom,I don't know what I would've
(24:05):
done if it hadn't been for thosepeople that cared for her.
And I'm so grateful to them.
So grateful because they held ittogether where I was not in that
space of being of clear mind andbeing able to handle that.
So I give you all just massivekudos and angels how I feel in
this world to help those of usgo through those processes of
(24:27):
saying goodbye to our lovedones.
Are there any other myths or anyother kind of conversations
that, that you want to share,that you hear that would help
people understand this process alittle bit more?
I was like, there's always likemyths that people have in there.
That it's like a place to die orthat you go somewhere and it's
just kind death.
I feel like it's just so muchmore to that.
(24:48):
Really what I try and havepeople understand is, like you
said, it's people that are gonnacome in and take the reins of
focusing on quality of life andcomfort.
And that's really the goal.
But it's just, it's alsosomething that they deserve to
have and they deserve to have agood team that comes in.
So it comes down to the clinicalteam that's gonna come in and
(25:08):
educate the families on what'shappening and what it looks like
while also, if the patient isstill able, alert enough to
understand, to also help themthrough the process.
As well as, I have AIDS thatcome in and they give phenomenal
baths, even bed baths if they'rebedbound.
Because being clean is dignityand being clean is a sign of
(25:30):
comfort.
It's not a washcloth across theface.
And then, getting upset that youhave to clean up somebody and
like throwing the wash clothacross the floor and leaving,
it's about showing up with thislike pure love for this human
that also just maybe just needsto be cleaned up a little bit
and have a clean shave ifthey're a guy or their head
scratched for a shampoo for, ifthey're a woman or whatever they
(25:52):
need.
And I think that's really wherethen having the right team comes
in.
Because you can have a hospiceagency, but that doesn't mean
that you're gonna be providingthis wonderful hospice care.
And really what I truly believein and is that it is.
Truly about taking care of theentire person.
We're not just coming in andgoing, here's your medication.
Please take your medication andlay down in bed and don't do it.
(26:14):
That's not quality of life.
And it should be for whatevertime is left.
So Medicare says that it's a sixmonth benefit, and I say that,
yes.
For the most part, we look atwhere somebody was six months
ago, where they are now, andthen based off the, where
they've been, where they are,they could possibly not be here
in six months.
However, we don't have a crystalball that says, oh yep, you are
(26:35):
gonna be here, exactly sixmonths or that we kick you off
if you live longer than that.
You're still, we're with you forwhatever your journey looks
like.
And I think that's where.
When you take care of a wholeperson as a person and you see
them as a person, and thatincludes body, mind, and
spiritual then the person's ableto pass more peacefully.
(26:56):
Yeah.
If you can talk to familymembers and say, Hey, I made
your grandma comfortable, she'snow sleeping peacefully, or, I
made your mom comfortable or wedidn't just do it with
medication, but talking to youthrough it so that you can say,
I'm gonna be okay when you'regone.
Then, the passing is a loteasier on the patient, but the
family and something that we'verecently talked about that my
(27:18):
boss finds to be somethingthat's like a driving force.
I feel like we start coming upwith new driving forces of why
we do what we do.
And it's really coming intoreally that I.
Not only what they deserve, butthen the family that's left, you
know how they grieve that lossis going to affect their
(27:38):
day-to-day life.
Yeah.
So if we don't show up in theway that we need to with
compassion and kindness andreally take care of this person,
but only, but being able to dothat for a longer period of
time, not coming in, in awhirlwind tornado last days of
somebody's life.
Because, we didn't want to dohospice sooner.
We get that time with the familyand so then their grieving after
(28:01):
passing is gonna affect theirlife, how they are as their own
mother to somebody else.
As a daughter still to somebody.
As somebody that's still workingas a coworker, as a friend, as
other family members like thatgrief is going to be something
that shapes them afterwards.
And I say that because mybiggest why is my grandmother.
(28:22):
So I'd been in hospice aboutseven months, and she was one of
the first people to catch COVID,and she's the one that died in a
facility.
It took 23 people when it wentthrough her facility, and I
watched her through a windowchoking on her blood from her
lungs as she was dying.
And I didn't think to gethospice for her because, and I'm
(28:46):
that family member then that waslike, I didn't think to get it.
I didn't, I was going throughthe motions of grieving and she
died in pain and she died alone.
And those are two things that Idon't want anybody else to have
to go through.
And so my biggest get up and goin the morning is so that nobody
else has to go through what Idid and I had the knowledge.
So trying to educate so thatthat this person's not, you're
(29:09):
not gonna die alone.
They're not gonna die alone.
But that they're gonna diepeacefully and not in pain is
the biggest thing.
Because how my grandmother diedaffected my mother.
I watched it and I've stillwatched it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How she has moved through lifelosing her mom, and her mom were
very close has been, it'saffected a lot of her day to day
(29:30):
and things that she's done.
And so I think that had she hadthe opportunity to have hospice,
to have somebody sit with herand talk with her and know that
she was taken care of and wasn'tin this place of pain while she
choked I think my mom would'vebeen a lot better on the other
end.
And I think she still holds hergrief.
(29:50):
And my grandmother died in 2020,so that's something that when my
boss said that, I was like, no,that hits home.
Very much because it's an entirepiece that you're given and
it's.
A whole team that comes in thathelps you move in this
transitional period from life todeath.
(30:13):
But it also helps you transitionas a family member.
On how your life is going tolook like next.
And what that's gonna look like.
Yeah.
And one of the big things that Italk about is we have this
mindset of birth being sobeautiful.
We talk about birth all thetime.
Beau birth is beautiful and thisbaby's here.
And it's such a beautifulexperience and this child then,
(30:38):
I'm not saying that it's not, itdefinitely is still a beautiful
process, but this child has beenhere for five minutes.
That's it.
So why are we not also treatingsomebody's end of life that's
been here for 80 years, 90years, 60 years, whatever.
With the same dignity andrespect that we're giving to
these humans that have barelybeen on earth enough to do any
like these have, they havememories, they have stories,
(31:00):
they have families.
And I think that if we approachit differently, yeah.
There's a stigma that comes withdeath.
There's a total stigma.
And it's, again, because wedon't talk about it I admit it,
I am terrified of it.
Not my own, like I, but like Iam, I don't want to die, but I'm
terrified of it.
And with my mom and the peoplethat I love and that I care
(31:21):
about, and I have not through mylife.
I'm 59 this year.
I was thinking about this as wewere getting ready to record
this episode today.
I have not experienced death tothe extent that some of my
contemporaries have people thatI know in my life grandparents
have passed.
Friends have passed.
Yeah.
A par a parent has passed, butI.
(31:43):
I haven't experienced it in, in,in the quantity that other
people have.
And so it, it scares me and Idon't like to talk about it.
And I was thinking as you weresharing, and you were talking
about that right before yousaid, we take this birth and we
celebrate it.
I was thinking in my head, theteam of people that are there as
you come into this world, right?
It's from everybody.
From Yeah.
(32:03):
The doctors to the nurses, tothe NICU people, to all of the
people that are there to helpand assist you and to guide the
mother through the birth and thefather and the, all of that, or
the significant other isenormous.
And then there's this stigmaaround the passing.
And when I was listening to youtalk, I was thinking about.
Even through movies andtelevision, there is a way that
(32:26):
death is portrayed that is, asyou are sharing it, completely
different than what weexperience in the movies or in
television.
There's always this morbidity,I, for lack of a better term
around it.
And I was thinking about whatyou said about the person, it's
difficult for the family memberswho are watching their loved one
(32:49):
through this end stage.
But there's got to be aconversation for the patient
that we will never know whatthat conversation is that
they're having internally.
And I've noticed through acouple of friends and a family
member who I can see the processand I can see the conversation
(33:14):
starting.
My mom, for example, a lot ofher friends.
She'll be 85 this year.
She'll probably kill me forsaying that, but she'll be 85.
Very healthy, knock wood.
And yet she has friends that arequite a bit older, she's lost
friends this year in the lastcouple of years since COVID.
And I sit and listen to her,share that experience of what
(33:37):
it's like and what it's doing toher and what it's doing to her
willingness to get outside andto be active and to be engaged.
And I see, and I hear that a lotin my friends who have parents
that are aging.
And so to think about thatconversation that's going on for
the person who may be in thatposition of hospice or needing
(33:58):
hospice, but to have a team ofpeople that's there to help walk
'em through that process has tobe.
Lessening the difficulty of thatconversation to a magnitude that
I don't know that we canmeasure.
I think it would be sobeneficial.
Again, still hard and stilldifficult to process, but what a
gift that is to give someonethat conversation of we're here
(34:22):
and we've got you and we'regonna be here for you.
Yeah.
Comfort I think is, I'm stilllacking on the word, but am I
off on comfort?
Good word.
Comfort.
Yeah.
I was like, I think comfort's agood word.
I was like, that's what Iusually use and that initial
conversation, really starts withme.
Where I'm asked, answering allthose questions.
But if I told you, okay, yourloved one is eligible, for this
(34:42):
benefit and this benefit lookslike that we're gonna bring in a
hospital bed.
We're gonna bring in oxygen,we're gonna bring in a bedside
table, wheelchair walker, jerrychair.
I'm gonna cover all medicationsthat your loved one is gonna
need.
We're not gonna just stopmedications to make them
uncomfortable, like bloodpressure or thyroid or anything
like that.
And I'm gonna come in with acomfort pack, so that way if
(35:03):
they struggle to breathe or theyare in pain or they have anxiety
we can help make themcomfortable with.
These other medications as well.
But we don't start them rightaway, but all of those are gonna
be covered.
If I tell you that your wholeteam of people, your nurse, your
aide, your social workerspiritual care is gonna come in
and talk with you and make surethat you're comfortable is
(35:26):
included.
And then if I tell you that allof your supplies, all of your
incontinence supplies, chuckwipes, barrier, cream, gloves,
that's gonna be covered.
And then if there's any wounds,some people have wounds from
being bed bound and laying downconsistently, all of those
supplies are gonna be covered,and you're gonna have somebody
that's gonna come and changethose because, just'cause you're
(35:47):
on hospice doesn't mean that youget to be uncomfortable and you
get to lay there with, woundsthat are gonna cause you to go
into septic shock.
Because nobody's doing anythingabout it.
So if I tell you all of that'scovered.
And if I tell you that you'renot gonna pay a dime for it.
And if I tell you that you'regonna be supported and held and
you go through whatever thatlooks like, when I tell people
(36:09):
like that, they're almost like Iwant that.
And then I'm like that'shospice.
And they're like I had no idea.
And then I always joke,'causethen I say, hospice is super
generous, but they're not thatgenerous.
So it's a use it or lose itbenefit.
So it's not like the militarywhere you can pass it on to
somebody else if you don't loseit, if you don't use it.
But it's a good penny, that ourworking life we've paid into our
(36:29):
whole life.
And you're looking at a good,like double digit thousands that
pays for this.
Sure.
That it just goes away.
Medicare just goes, thank you.
We're gonna keep this, if youdon't use it.
Yeah.
If you don't use it.
And then people are like, wait,so I'm so here's the other
thing.
So what if I told you that notusing your hospice benefit.
(36:51):
Is like going into a car lot,buying a brand new car and then
walking out without the keys.
Yeah.
So I'm that's not who's gonna dothat?
Who's gonna be like here's mydown payment on this car, but
I'm out.
Keep the keys.
I'm good.
You guys can do whatever youwant with it.
Then people are like I don'twant to do that.
So then it still comes into the,how can I make it more
(37:14):
digestible?
Is how can I make it andstatistically people actually do
live longer on hospice versusnot sure.
Because we're able to have thetrajectory of our health go in a
sliding versus a big chunksbeing taken out.
And I think when people hearthat and they hear that, we're
gonna do everything we can tomake them comfortable, we're
gonna focus on quality of lifeand comfort.
We're gonna, we're not justgonna come in and be like,
(37:35):
here's your morphine iv, which Ialways try and educate on
morphine.
Morphine is actually the mostgentle opioid that you can take.
People are like, I'd takeDilaudid all day.
And I'm like, that's destroyingyour gut, but morphine's
actually not gonna do that.
And then it actually helps youbreathe.
I didn't realize that wassomething that I'd learned.
And so I always try and educatethat, but at the end of life the
(37:56):
smooth muscle that goes aroundyour midsection becomes like a
girdle.
And so it's, it starts tosqueeze and so they can't take a
deep breath while morphinerelaxes smooth muscle and allows
somebody to be able to then takea deep breath, and then it also
helps the oxygen and the bloodgo further.
So instead of making people passout like they think it would, a
(38:17):
small amount actually could helpthem.
Sure.
Be up, be alert, have those lastconversations with people, tell
them that they love them, whatthey want, what they're feeling,
et cetera.
And leave people then to belike, okay, I got to say my
goodbyes.
I got to say I'm good if youleave.
Go be where you are and havethat conversation.
(38:38):
And then when they leave, theneverybody can go through the
grieving process Sure.
And hopefully a better betterthan what they thought that it
would be.
Yeah.
Kind of experience.
Yeah.
And I've heard more often thannot, I've been doing this six
years now.
That still seven out of 10people say they wish they'd
(38:58):
called me sooner.
So interesting time to ask thisquestion in our current
environment is, so it'sautomatic with Medicare.
It reverts.
It reverts.
And is Medicare automatic foreveryone that qualifies?
So if they have advantage plans,then it reverts to Medicare Part
A.
(39:19):
And what's the advantage plan?
So what we use would be likeyour your Anthems, your Humanas,
stuff like that.
And what type of policy.
So our listener would understandthat.
So like when you say it reverts,what type of policy would they
have that would revert toMedicare?
So any of them, if they electtheir hospice benefit, any of
their advantage plans willrevert to Medicare Part A.
(39:40):
Okay.
So when it reverts to Medicarepart A, we actually, then when
we go in and they signpaperwork, what happens then is
we replace Medicare Part A withthat hospice.
So it's like we become theirinsurance.
Okay.
And we bill that way.
Okay.
Now if they get better and theygraduate off of hospice, then it
just reverts back to whateverthey had.
(40:00):
So somebody who let's say, superhealthy in their fifties, maybe
late fifties, is obviouslylooking towards the future.
What do they need to do or what,where do they start inquiring
about that type of policy?
Because don't think fifties.
Yeah.
They don't teach that.
So if they have a commercialplan, I would look into whatever
commercial plans they have andmake sure that they have hospice
(40:27):
benefits.
Okay.
And that's something they canask their insurance provider,
right?
Their agent.
That they have hospice and thatfalls under their general
healthcare.
That falls under their generalmedical plan.
Like their health insurance forbasic commercial insurance.
So basic I don't think that Ihave one, but I should probably
get one.
(40:47):
That's why I'm asking because Iknow for a fact that there are
friends of mine that we'vetalked about this and that don't
have it.
So I'm encouraging them to talkto their insurance companies.
Yes, and be clear.
And it's about education.
And I think that's reallyimportant is that we need to be
our own advocates.
We learn that through thepandemic.
(41:07):
We need to be our own advocatesand fighting for our own
healthcare and our own healthbenefits.
And so we need to also beprepared in knowing what
potentially comes in our future.
And I think we think there'stime to do that down the road.
We can do it down the road.
There's time.
And I think we learned veryquickly during the pandemic that
there isn't time that we need tobe aware of this now.
(41:28):
And so I encourage and I thinkwhy it's important to have this
conversation is my circle offriends, for the most part, are
dealing with aging parents andare also dealing with,
potentially looking for towardsour future, what that looks
like.
And so I want to be the advocateto talk about these things in
such a way like you're doingtoday.
I learned three things todayjust in what you shared, that I
(41:50):
had no clue.
No clue that hospice came withall of those elements that you
talked about.
No clue.
And I've been through it.
I had no clue there was a socialworker or a spiritual component
of that.
I had no clue.
So I'm hoping that through theseconversations, people will wake
up and go, oh, I should take alook at that.
(42:10):
When I was getting ready for thepodcast episode, I started to do
some research and you can godown a rabbit hole of
information on hospice care andpalliative care and all of these
types of things.
And it's important to geteducated.
And so I'm gonna reallyencourage people to do that.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
A question for you, so how do Iask this question and not go
(42:33):
down the rabbit hole, but is itsomething that is potentially at
risk in this current moment?
Is hospice care something thatcould eventually be affected by.
No policy.
I don't know.
But I want to say that, I wouldsay that that wouldn't go over
well if there were cuts made tosomebody's end of life care.
(42:55):
Nobody really wants to touch.
Cutting end of life.
However, they may do it in otherways.
There may be more difficulties,there may be more loopholes.
Sure.
Restrictions, I don't know,restrictions, what they plan on
doing.
With it I think for now peopleare good.
Yeah.
But, it could be that by thetime I need it, it's not
available.
And, I hope that we don't cometo that.
(43:16):
I hope that's not something Itake away.
I think it's very important.
Yep.
But if you even have, but alsoMedicaid will mirror Medicare
for insurance if they have that.
And then, if you're under 65,but you have specific terminal
diagnoses.
You can also be on advantageplans because my mom had her
cancer.
She's not 65 and she does have aMedicare Advantage plan.
(43:37):
My biggest educational piece isanybody that is going into
turning 65, close to 65, they'recalling and saying, the
advantage plans are so muchbetter.
You can get gr a hundred dollarshere and a hundred dollars here.
We'll buy groceries, we'll dothat.
They're lying.
And I highly recommend havingtraditional Medicare over an
Advantage plan.
I could not stress that enough.
(43:58):
So say that again.
So you recommend traditionalMedicare?
Traditional Medicare as opposedto the Advantage plan?
Okay.
Yes.
I had a family recently that Italked to and she's they, I
didn't mean to switch, but theytalked us into, we had.
Groceries that they gave us.
They said that we would getmoney back for groceries.
And I was like I understandthat.
And then she's yeah, but theylied to us because then in the
(44:20):
little bitty fine print, it wascut after so many times they're
like, oh, we're not doing thatanymore.
So then get people to switch.
'cause once you switch, thenit's either harder, you can't go
back.
And how are they making moneyoff that?
Is it, are they making money offthat because it's a subsidy and
then because you're not payingthat.
So it's, they're obviouslyupselling you because they'll
get more money in return fromthe plan.
(44:40):
They don't pay as much dependingon what you need.
So really it's not gonna affectyou for hospice.
Where it's gonna affect you isgonna be in like your home
health rehab, stuff like that.
Where they want you to getbetter instead of coming to
hospice.
Sure.
And the only reason I know thatis my grandfather.
My grandfather had a super badissue with his urinary.
(45:01):
Splatter, stuff like that.
They were trying to figure outwhat was going on.
He had talked about going to theAdvantage plans and I told him,
I said please just stick withyour regular Medicare.
I promise you it'll be worth it.
But he's but I'm healthy.
I could use the a hundreddollars grocery things.
I said, no, I hear you.
Please stay with regularMedicare.
And he's fine.
Not even six months after we hadthis conversation, he developed
(45:21):
a huge UTI huge issue.
Like they were truly trying tofigure it out.
Had to have a catheter in himfor a couple of days, and he
went through all of thesetestings,$0.
Had he switched to an advantageplan either A, he wouldn't have
gotten those, or B, he would'vepaid hundreds for that.
And he's I couldn't haveafforded the hundreds.
And I said, see, that's why Itold you to keep that medi.
(45:41):
And he's okay, I'm not, Ibelieve you now.
I'm not gonna switch.
I said, because just'cause youmight be healthy in this moment
doesn't mean something's notgonna happen later or where you
need the rehab'cause you falland break a hip.
Or you need the home health andPT to come in.
You're not gonna get theagencies that are good because
the reimbursement rate for aphysical therapist on advantage
(46:04):
plans are poor.
And so then you're not gonnahave as many or good quality
versus having your Medicare.
Then they can have the good PTsthat are come, gonna come in.
You can have the good visits,you can have all of these
things.
That can set you up for successand not need any.
Does the patient have the choiceof which agency they go with or
(46:26):
is it the agency assigned to thepatient through Medicare?
No, it is always patient choice.
Oh.
So in our area here, they willgo into the hospital system and
the hospital will try and pushtheir own.
I always say, please educateyourself, do research, reach out
to them.
Having a conversation with fiveof me with five different
(46:46):
agencies is totally acceptableto do.
We all have our Medicareguidelines, we all have our
Medicare standards that weshould be following.
And I will say that my companyis very compliant.
But outside of that, it's what?
What makes us different and whatmakes us different is gonna be
my clinical team.
I don't have somebody that'sworking a nine to five because
(47:08):
they need to pay bills.
I have somebody that wants totake care of those people and
wants to treat them as peopleand wants to show up with
kindness and compassion.
And I think that's gonna alwaysset us apart from other
agencies.
So what are the top three thingsthat someone should look for
when they're looking at theagency?
(47:29):
Authenticity, which you can tellvery quickly within the
marketer.
Because if the marketer is therejust for money.
You're gonna tell in the waythat they talk to you.
If you're good at reading peoplelet's face it, if they're
pushing that used car salesmanapproach on all the things you
have.
Yeah.
They're gonna come off as a usedcar salesman.
Yeah.
And not asking questions likeI'm sure you do.
(47:51):
And really looking into theneeds of the patient and the
family as opposed to, here'sthis plan with this shiny
benefit and this little bell andwhistle and this little upgrade.
That's what I would think wouldbe a big red flag.
Is there something else?
If it sounds too good to betrue?
Then it might be some agenciescan promise certain things in
the moment to get you to signpaperwork and then under
(48:14):
deliver.
So something that I always sayfor myself is I was like, I'm
not gonna over promise and underdeliver.
I'm gonna give you exactly whatyou need.
And that's really what sets usapart.
So I was like, you're gonna getwhat you need Medicare, but then
what you need within the agency.
So having somebody that you cantell is that used car salesman,
that person that's gonna belike, if you're like, can I
have, and they're like, oh yeah,you can have whatever you want.
(48:35):
You can have this, you can havethat, you can have that, and
we'll bring you Burger Kingevery other day.
Promise, probably not.
And then they're just trying.
And then also I would look forfigure out too, like where your
staffing is.
Whether or not they are overunderstaffed or if they're
staffed accordingly.
I would say I'm staffedaccordingly.
But if they don't allow you tochoose, to, I would look at
(48:57):
that.
Allow you to choose your staffor your team.
Allow you to choose the agency.
Oh, the agency.
Yeah.
If they are, there's times wherethere will be the hospital
liaisons are like the me of thatcompany and they will push their
own.
And so saying that you want alist and to research then you
can also go into medicare.gov.
(49:18):
And you.
The three agencies that you see,and then those are all scores
that are given to the agenciesbased off family's feedback.
So there is an agent, sorry,it's important.
Didn't mean to interrupt.
So there is a resource for youto check.
medicare.gov.
Okay.
So you can check the agencies.
(49:39):
'cause obviously the agencieshave to be registered and
listed.
If they're not registered andlisted, if they're new, they may
not show up yet.
Okay.
So those would be where I wouldwant to, so if they don't have a
score, then it means thatthey're probably less than two.
They might be a little bitbehind.
So two and a half-ish years.
Okay.
But you also have to have acensus of 50 before these like
surveys will go out and thesesurveys go out after the passing
(50:02):
of a patient.
Okay.
And so once these surveys goout, they're sent out by
Medicare.
It doesn't matter.
So my agency, every otheragency, every patient that
passes, they all get the samequestionnaire, they all get the
same survey, and it's sentwithin six to eight weeks after
your loved one passes.
So really when you're still likeraw in grieving, that's Hey, did
you like your team?
Were they good?
(50:22):
Were they this, did they giveyou this?
Did they do that?
So there are like questions toanswer and a lot of those scores
then are generated based off offamily feedback.
Okay.
So then you can really knowwhere they stand.
So for those agencies that maybeknew, if you don't see the
rating, is there a way to makesure they're legit?
I would still call and sit downwith ours.
(50:43):
Like ours took a while.
We were newer to the AR area andso they just had to talk to me
and we just, it almost had to belike a kind of can you trust us?
But I would assume you, you haveto be licensed.
So I would assume there wouldalso be ways to check licensing
and permit, not permiting, butlicensing.
And we were accredited,accredited.
Thank Youc.
Yeah, thank you.
I knew it was, I knew there wasa word in there somewhere to
(51:04):
you.
Yeah.
So you want them to beaccredited?
Yes.
Accredited surveyed certificate,something you, they have to have
that to be an open hospice.
But just'cause they're not onMedicare go.gov, that just means
they're a newer agency that hasmaybe popped up in the area.
And so their scores haven't comethrough yet.
I have a couple final questionsfor you.
(51:25):
Fascinating conversation.
Thank you so much.
My head is spinning.
Sorry.
No, in a good way.
In a good way.
It just gets you thinking,right?
It gets you thinking.
That there are questions to askand preparations to make to ask
your mom, like even if you don'twant to have that conversation,
it's mom, if something happenedin a week from now, like do you
want all of these things inplace?
(51:46):
Do you want me to get a hospice?
Do you want to sit with me rightnow and go through the ones that
are here?
And that if that happened threeyears from now, I know which
ones to call.
If they fall off, then you havetwo others.
But being like, you both lookedat different things and agreed
on'em together and there's nosaying that you couldn't have
somebody like me and be like,hi, she's healthy, but I want to
(52:06):
sit and talk.
I want to feel your vibe.
They may not be there when sheneeds them, but you could know
about the agency.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's importantbecause even, like I said, mom's
super healthy, not good.
It's interesting'cause I havesomebody come in.
Yeah.
We have somebody come in andhelps her once a week after she
fell and she's now been here acouple years and they've got
this great relationship and Ilove that they're together and
(52:27):
the owner of the agency isamazing.
Patty, we talk all the time.
So there's that comfort level.
But it took me a while toconvince my mom Yeah.
To allow this person to comeinto her home.
'cause my mother's veryindependent and there was even a
moment where.
She didn't work there anymore.
And then my mother needed heragain and brought her back, and
then my mother was like, I'llnever have her leave again.
(52:49):
So I was very grateful for that.
But I, it's one of those thingsthat you think about sitting
down and just having thatconversation.
It's the same thing about, wetalk about what are your wishes
in terms of your burial?
Do you want to be cremated?
Do you want to be buried in thecemetery?
It's what are those kind ofquestions that you have to, and
we had to ask those questionswhen we did the family trust.
(53:09):
And so if you could look at itfrom a way, and how I look at it
is I just want us to beprepared.
I don't want to be caught offguard.
Should something happen to you.
And I even told her what I want.
I travel so much.
Who's to say, God forbid, but wehave that conversation what I
want as well.
And so if we can come from aplace of just the preparedness,
(53:30):
not of the, let's just, beDebbie Downers and have the
conversation.
I think it's really important.
I'd rather be prepared.
We recently were thinking aboutall the people at the fire as my
mom was evacuated and so didn'thave all of her paperwork
together of just the basics.
And so we now have that handled.
So there's just things that youdon't expect.
Banking.
Banking I've come into that,like banking, there's been so
(53:50):
many kids that like all of asudden this happened and they're
like, I can't get into myparents' account.
I can't pay for this, I can't dothis, I can't get this.
And I'm like, okay I'm one part.
I can give you resources.
But I got off the phone likehaving that meeting and I called
my dad and was like, yeah, Idon't need any of your
passwords, but you have itwritten down in a book
(54:10):
somewhere.
And so if something happens, Ineed to know where that book is.
Yeah.
I don't need, and I said, butyou need to put me I told my
dad, I said, I need to be on allof your checking.
I don't need to know anything,but my name needs to be on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause if I go to call, yes.
I was like, who's to say youdon't get an accident and you're
unconscious.
Mom was with you.
She's unconscious.
I still have to pay yourmortgage while we're figuring
things out.
Yeah.
How am I supposed to get in anddo that?
(54:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so after that, he's oh, Ididn't, I just thought you
wanted access to my checkingaccount.
I was like, absolutely not.
But my name needs to be on it.
So when I call, they'll talk tome.
We just moved my mom's financialinstitution after 30 years and
the same conversation.
And it's, I now, after thatfire, because when my mom left
and was evacuated, she had 30minutes to get out and.
(54:53):
Was not thinking I need to takethat box that I have that has
all my paperwork in it.
And so we had this really funnyconversation and she's very
sarcastic.
As am I, and she's you're tryingto steal all my money and lock
me up.
I'm like, lady, if I wanted tolock you up, I would've locked
you up a long time ago because Ihave all your passwords.
Yeah.
Okay, but we can joke aboutthat.
And it's done in a loving way.
(55:14):
And but it's important becauseagain, I, my dad's not around.
She's by herself.
And if something were to happen,I need to be able to take care
of her and care for her.
So I encourage people to meetwith an attorney, to put the
things in the trust.
It's interesting too, after thefire I was.
Spinning through Instagram,watching some of the news
(55:35):
stories, and someone came on andsaid, if you have a family trust
and you have homeowner'sinsurance, your homeowner's
insurance has to identify theliving trust as additionally
insured on your homeowner'sinsurance, or they won't cover
you.
And we're going through hugeissues with that here in
California.
(55:55):
Huge.
The insurance company does notnecessarily have to pay you if
you don't list your trust asadditional insured.
So I went to the insurancecompany, took my mom's trust,
went in and we added it and theguy sitting behind the desk
said, we have done hundreds ofthese in the last couple weeks
since the evacuations becausepeople realized they didn't have
this.
And I thought, isn't that yourjob as the insurance company
(56:18):
when you set the insurance up totell us that it needs to happen?
Yeah.
So I share that only becauseit's just another set of
conversations that you can haveto be prepared.
Archer.
I can't thank you enough forthis conversation.
I think it's really.
Empowering to sit with somebodywho has the experience.
There's a whole host of otherquestions that I could ask you.
(56:40):
I want to invite you backanother time to maybe further
the conversation, but then alsotalk about a few other things
that have popped up as a result.
But I'm really grateful that youwere able to share this part of
your life that's so important.
And I just want to say, I saidthis to you originally, that
there are angels in this worldwho simply are out to make a
(57:01):
huge difference.
And not only are you making adifference within your own
community and the transcommunity, and you're educating
people about what it means tolive an authentic life and to be
yourself.
You spend your life dedicated tohelping others, and it just.
Number one, it just makes melove you more.
But number two, it just showsjust how important it is that we
(57:24):
are here on this earth to be ofservice to others.
And it doesn't mean that theyhave to do what you do, it just
means that we have to becognizant of the people around
us and what they might need,especially now more than ever.
So I encourage people to reachout and to connect with people
and to have those difficultconversations and to be able to
speak freely and to speakpassionately about your care for
someone else.
(57:45):
I think it'll make people's day.
So I want to, again, thank youfor all the information that
you've shared.
Anything you want to say inclosing as we wrap up this
conversation today?
No.
If anybody has any questions, Idon't care where you are.
If you know any of my socials,you can send me a message and
I'm more than willing to answerany of your hospice questions
and help point you in the rightdirection.
We're gonna make sure, I thinkit's important.
(58:05):
So yeah, we're gonna make sureto put access to your Instagram
account.
I encourage people just to go.
Check you out and follow you andbe part of that positivity that
is really infectious We'll makesure we do that.
Thank you for being here, andthank you for sharing again, and
I can't wait to have you back onanother episode.
Can't wait.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
(58:26):
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Alright, everyone, thank youagain for joining us on today's
episode.
I hope our conversationresonated with you like it did
me, and I cannot wait to sitdown with you all again next
week.
Remember to subscribe to theJust You Podcast on your
favorite platform so you canmake sure not to miss a new
episode, which drop everyThursday.
(58:48):
If you like what you hear, youcan easily share the podcast and
episode.
Directly with your friends andif you would rate us and leave
us a review, we'd love to hearfrom you.
You can also follow us onInstagram at just Do you pod as
you go out into the world today.
Remember to just do you.
Alright, talk next week.
Hello everyone.
Welcome to the Just To YouPodcast.
My name is Eric Nicole, and I'myour host.
If you are a first timelistener, welcome to the
conversation and if you're aregular, I'm honored that you've
decided to join me for anotherepisode.
The Just Do You Podcast iscentered around a network of
conversations, which are meantto connect us, to inspire us, to
find our own confidence, our ownvoice, and to live our own
(00:27):
truth.
And who knows, we might evenlearn a little something new
that ultimately allows us tolive in the sweet spot that I
like to call the Just do youspace of being.
Each week, I have the privilegeof sitting down for unscripted
conversations with friends,family, colleagues, community
leaders, and influencers thatall share their own personal
journeys.
(00:48):
I hope that you enjoy our timetogether as much as I have.
We are certainly gonna laugh,and yes, we might even cry a
little, but in the end, we aregonna know that we're not alone
during our life's journey.
So are you ready?
Great.
Let's do this.
Welcome to the conversation.
All right, everyone.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Just You Podcast.
(01:10):
I am really excited to welcomeback one of my favorite guests,
Archer Gray.
Hey Archer.
Hey.
How are you?
I'm fantastic.
Thanks for having me again.
Good.
It's good to see you.
We were chatting a little bitbefore we hit record today and I
realized that it's been quite awhile actually since you've been
on, but you are actually nowwinning the title of the guest
(01:34):
who has been on our podcast themost as of today.
So I'm super excited to have youback for your third visit.
So for our listeners, I justwant to quickly introduce Archer
and then we're going to get intoour conversation today.
But I met Archer actually in aroundabout way through social
media.
I think as we find our friendsand followers these days is by
searching social media.
(01:55):
And I came across Archer'splatform last year, and was
really taken by Archerspresentation, if you will, of
himself and his authenticity andreally sharing his journey as a
trans man.
And I invited Archer to come onto the podcast and he graciously
spent some time with us, sharingabout his journey.
(02:18):
I then invited Archer to comeback in June.
So he came back and joined usfor a second episode where we
checked in after the election,and it was a really powerful
episode.
And I'm super grateful forArcher's honesty and his
candidness, and mostly for yourway of sharing your life with
(02:40):
others in a way that leaves themin a better space to learn about
what it means to be trans, whatit means to be part of the
L-G-B-T-Q community and what itmeans to live a life of
authenticity and a life out inthe open.
And I'm really proud of you forcontinuing to do the work that
(03:01):
you do and sharing that journeywith us through your social
media.
So thank you for that.
You've come on today, there's awhole other side to you that we
didn't really get a chance totalk about in our first two
episodes, and that is what youdo for your day job.
So I wanted to spend a littletime with you today because I
found it really fascinating andI'm gonna let you share your
(03:22):
journey of how you got to workin the hospice field.
But it is a really beautiful andremarkable.
Journey and you're gonna help usdispel some myths about hospice
and you're gonna share some ofyour experience and why it is
not only important, but it'ssomething that can be incredibly
(03:43):
beneficial to not only theindividual but also their
family.
So thanks again for coming ontoday and sharing with us.
Yeah, I'm really glad that Icould be here and share a little
bit about something else thatI'm, passionate about.
And it didn't start that way,everybody has this possible
roadmap of maybe what they wantto do when they grow up and I
was like any other kid and had15 options and then had went
(04:07):
into healthcare management, wasmy degree and I was like, I'm
just gonna work business side,in an office or whatever.
And never thought about workinglong-term care.
Never thought about working withthe elderly.
And then it literally landed inmy lap.
My brother and I both werewaiters at different restaurants
(04:28):
at this point in time, and hehappened to be serving a group
of people who came in and theywere like, Hey, you're really
good with like customer service.
Would you be interested in maybeworking for a hospice company?
And my brother was like actuallymy brother has the healthcare
degree, so maybe, and we do thesame thing as far as customer
(04:48):
service.
Sure.
So I was like, hospice.
I was like, oh, that's, oh.
Everybody's reaction when I tellthem I do hospice.
Ugh.
But I was like, all right, letme call.
Like at this point I had justgraduated and.
No one, everybody wants you tohave so much experience with so
much school.
It was like all right, I'll justgive it a chance and see.
(05:11):
I don't know.
And so this particular personhad told the company that I was
going for that, they were gonnahire me and the administrator at
the time who I owe pretty mucheverything to everything that
I've learned.
She's an amazing human.
I don't think I'd be where I am,really without her and her
support not only for hospice,but, accepting me, sure.
(05:34):
Really.
But was like, I'm not hiringthis person and had it in her
mind that she was not gonna hireme.
So I go to the interview and sitthere and she jokes with me now
and says, like halfway throughthe interview, she's damnit, I
hire him.
Was, but dang, I guess I'm, shegets this one on me, she's
telling me who I'm gonna hire.
(05:54):
And so I did.
And yeah.
Before you go down that routethough, I want to back up just a
little bit.
So I'm curious,'cause youmentioned something.
So what were some of the otheroptions that you were thinking
about before you took thisopportunity in care?
What were some of'em?
I was gonna do I wanted to dolike hospital administration.
Okay.
Very acute care, very notdealing with families or people
(06:16):
or anything very long.
Just get'em in, get'em out.
Okay.
Whatever that looked like.
Okay.
My professor for school was oldhospital administration, so he
made it sound kind of fun.
Either.
And you got your, either that orjust like a doctor's office.
What did you get your degree in?
So I have my bachelor's inhealthcare management.
Okay.
And then I have my master's in,it's a master's in business with
(06:39):
a concentration in healthcareadministration.
Okay.
So I went a totally differentroute.
In my head I was thinking maybefiremen or, it's like a fireman.
Oh, marine biology.
But then I marine biologist.
So we went healthcare rightafter that because was like,
okay, there's no going anywhere.
I was going, healthcare,staying, but I was going down
some very different paths withyou.
I was like, gotcha.
Wonder what that would be?
(06:59):
No Marine biology.
I want to work at SeaWorld.
And then found out I got seasickand they're like, now you gotta
do like research on the oceanbefore you ever get the option
to maybe work at SeaWorld ifyou're lucky.
This is not feeding Shamu.
The fish on the side of the, onthe side of the walkway.
Step back a little bit and just'cause I forget, I know you so
well now, but I forget some ofour listeners don't.
Where did you grow up?
(07:20):
So I grew up in a town calledHarrisonburg, Virginia.
Okay.
If anybody knows colleges, it'sthe James Madison University
area.
Okay.
And were you only child or didyou have siblings?
No, I had a younger brother.
Younger brother, that's right.
'cause you both were waiters.
Okay, I remember that.
Yep.
And then where did you go off toschool?
So I decided to not go to JMU'cause I was marine biology, so
(07:43):
they were like, you probablyneed to go somewhere near the
water.
So that was a good point.
So I came down here and went toODU.
Okay.
When I found out I couldn't dothat anymore I switched to a
college that was like the moreaccelerated program and it was
called South University.
Okay.
And so I got my undergrad and mygrad from there.
Okay.
And then you've been there thewhole time, so you've stayed in
(08:05):
that area, okay.
And.
When you shared with us beforeyou told the story you
transitioned, give us a littlebit of background on that.
When did you trans start yourtransition?
I transitioned in 2021.
Okay.
Was when I first changed myname, socially.
Transitioned that summer andthen started hormones that fall
(08:27):
in November.
Okay, so I'm gonna encourage ourlisteners to go back.
If you haven't heard both ofArcher's podcast episodes, to go
back and listen to those.
You can find those on ourplatform's.
Really remarkable story and whenI sit and talk to you today even
over the last year and a halfthat you and I have been friends
the transformation of who youare in the world has just been
(08:49):
remarkable to watch.
And so I'm super proud.
I want people to go back andreally take in the story.
And why I think it's importantis because a lot of times on our
episodes, I talk about how ourexperiences, when we're young
and growing up shape us for whatwe do in our future.
And the more I listen to myguest stories, whether they're,
male, female, part of theL-G-B-T-Q community figuring it
(09:12):
out, thinking about it, workingit out a lot of their
experiences in their youngeryears, I.
Remarkably translate into whatthey do in the future, right?
In their adult years.
And so when we talk abouthospice and you talk about what
it really means to take care ofsomeone, I want you to share a
little bit about that.
But I think it's reallyinteresting.
(09:32):
I think that a lot of what youshared in those first two
episodes really showed yourcompassion for people and not
only your passion for life andfor living a life that's
authentic and living a life thatis your truth, but your
compassion for other people andyour community is really it's
visible.
I can really sense it and feelit.
(09:54):
Did that have a lot of play intoyour desire to go into this
healthcare field, whether it wasadministratively or ultimately
with hospice?
Did you think about that or no?
Not in the beginning.
Because I think I was the, Ithink I was really lost and I
(10:16):
don't know how to word it.
I feel like I very much was justlike, I just want to do I always
wanted to help people.
I had that in the back of mymind.
But I really wasn't sure how orwhat to do.
But then feeling not helpfulmyself at one point.
Because I didn't really know whoI was.
I would say that I've gottenbetter at my job since doing
(10:36):
that.
Since discovering myself.
Yeah.
And so I don't know if thathelped where I, like you truly
fall in love with something andbecome more passionate about it.
But I think.
There was always just this, Ilike helping, I liked making
people smile.
So even as a waiter, that's whatI did through school.
When I had the tables where Imade them smile, I, they had a
(10:56):
good experience.
We had, a good time.
We both laughed back and forthor whatever.
And it wasn't necessarily, itwasn't really like about the
tip, it was like the experience.
And if I had that, then I feltlike I did something.
That I was useful, even if I wasjust a waiter and, hopefully
just made an impact for an hourover their steak and, or pasta
(11:17):
dish.
And just made it memorable inthat so that they'd want to come
back.
And I think that's alwayssomething that I strive to do.
But I just don't think I had itfigured out that it would be
healthcare.
Because when I went into thethought of healthcare, I was
like, I'm gonna sit behind thedesk and not talk to.
Which I find, but that reallywasn't what I wanted to do
either.
No, I no.
(11:37):
I, there's no way you sit behinda desk with your personality and
your energy and your positivity.
You've gotta be, was that whenyou were at Cheesecake Factory?
Yes.
Yep.
I love Cheesecake Experience.
I really, I love the storybecause when you shared about,
the first time you put thatuniform on and really felt.
In your body and felt like youand how it completely changed
(11:58):
you.
I would've loved to have seenthe difference in your service
prior to that.
Then when you made thatrealization that you finally
felt like yourself would've beencool.
'cause I only know you as now.
And I know, and I would thinkthat I said, if you were the
waiter at Cheesecake Factory,I'd probably be 400 pounds.
'cause I'd probably come backand, dine there all the time.
Because I, I'm a big peoplewatcher too, and I love to watch
(12:20):
servers and it's it's alwaysinteresting to me when you see
certain people that are in theservice industry, not just in
restaurants, but serviceindustry as a whole.
And there are some where you go,how did you get into service to
helping people?
Because I don't think it's yourstrong suit to other people who
are like, oh my gosh, this is soyou, so I get that.
(12:40):
So jumping back to where youstarted.
So you were sitting in thisinterview.
And the person you wereinterviewing with was like, oh,
damnit, I'm gonna end up hiringthis person.
What happened after that?
Like where did you go from thereand tell us a little bit about
what that's as you enter thisworld of hospice.
Because I would imagine knowingwhat I know of end of life and
what I've experienced, whichunfortunately hasn't been a lot
(13:01):
lost obviously both sets ofgrandparents and recently my
dad, but, very differentcircumstances.
But I, I would think that'sgotta be, it was tough for me.
That would've had to have beenan interesting conversation to
have in your head about whatthat process is like.
What was that like for you?
I was able to go throughsomething.
About a year prior, so a yearprior to the interview for
(13:24):
hospice my mother, my aunt andmy uncle were all three
diagnosed with cancers withinabout two weeks of each other.
Wow.
And fortunately they're allstill here, so I am very
grateful for, their treatmentand everything that they were
able to go through.
But I had that realization of Icould possibly lose my mother.
(13:45):
And so sitting in the interview,it was if that had been the
route and or if her cancer comesback.
'cause that's always in the backof my mind, if it comes back and
if there's no positive outcomethis time, what's that look
like?
And so I knew that I would wanther to have a.
(14:08):
Care with people that are goingto be genuine and authentic.
And love on her and make surethat she is not in pain.
And that was my firstintroduction to hospice of we
take care of people and makesure that they have quality of
life and comfort.
And I hadn't really known that.
And so when I thought about thefact that could have been my
mother or could still be her inthe future in however long, or
(14:33):
my aunt or my uncle, I wantedthat for them.
And so I really wanted to thenlearn anything and everything
that I could about hospice.
Yeah.
De define what hospice care is.
'cause some people may not know.
So hospice is a Medicarebenefit.
It's actually paid for at ahundred percent underneath
people's Medicare benefits.
(14:54):
And then commercial plansusually, sometimes they'll have.
End of life benefits, sometimesthey don't, but then you can
have them based off like yourdeductible and stuff like that.
But for the most part, we'relooking at your 65 and older
Medicare, or if you have aterminal illness prior to 65,
and sometimes you can still beon the Advantage plans which
(15:14):
would still then revert totraditional Medicare Part A,
which pays for hospice.
Is there a difference betweenhospice care and palliative
care?
Yes.
So palliative care is more likesomebody that's not quite ready
for hospice.
So the way that I alwaysdescribe it is somebody still
doing treatment.
They still want to do a couplemore rounds of chemo, a couple
(15:36):
more rounds of radiation.
They're being managed, painmanagement usually, and they're
managed by a nurse practitioner.
And that nurse practitioner isusually, it falls under the home
health umbrella.
So palliative is not under thesame umbrella as hospice.
Okay.
Okay.
So it's a.
Precursor to hospice then.
So it's more of a precursor tohospice?
It can be, or, okay.
It can be most people.
(15:57):
I say that the only time it'sreally a precursor is if it's
like we have these five roundsof chemo left and we really want
to do them, then absolutely youshould, and then you should
still be managed by that nursepractitioner who can make sure
that your pain is where it needsto be.
Or if there's still like alittle bit of hope for these
treatments that you're doing,then that's where I would like,
say palliative.
So that you're not alone, youdon't have, nobody would be your
(16:20):
best bet.
A lot of people say they wantpalliative when they're hospice
eligible, because palliative isa much easier word to swallow
than hospice.
Sure.
What are some of the myths abouthospice care?
So a lot of the big myths isthat hospice, that means that
you're giving up, that you'rejust.
You're gonna be put in a bed andfed morphine through a vein and
(16:44):
we're gonna put a pillow overyour head and smother you.
That hospice is somebody's lastday or two of life.
I would say those are some ofthe big ones that they stop all
of your medications.
You can't keep your doctor.
You have to be a DNR.
So there's a lot of big onesthat people go through when they
hear hospice.
(17:05):
But in addition, it's just gonnahave that black cloud around the
name.
But if they changed the name,that eventually when people
realized that was end of life,that would also have the same
Sure.
Kind of black cloud.
So it's predominantly thoughthat black cloud because of a
conversation, right?
Or not being educated about whatit really is, because it's
(17:25):
difficult to talk about, thattime in your life.
It's difficult to talk about,people who potentially could be
near the end of their life andwhat that care looks like.
I have a couple friends that aregoing through that with their
parents and they don't know howto talk about it or even how to
begin the conversation becausethey just don't want to think
about it.
I am guilty of that.
I, my mom's very healthy by thegrace of God, but I don't want
(17:46):
to think about what that lookslike down the road and, would
she need care and what wouldthat look like and how we would
handle that.
So I'm even, that's why I wasinterested in having this
conversation with you today?
It's because it's something thatI think we all need to be aware
of and what that process is andthat it's available.
And it doesn't alwaysnecessarily mean somebody who's
elderly.
It doesn't mean someone who's intheir last years of life.
(18:07):
It could be someone who'syounger, like you said, going
through, cancer or going throughsome other type of illness.
Correct.
Like it's not just an elderlyperson's next step.
It's anybody with a terminalillness.
Yeah.
Or terminal diagnosis.
And I find that, so my rolespecifically is sales and
marketing, but I'm not reallymarketing hospice.
(18:28):
'cause you've paid for it, soI'm not marketing you to give me
any money or stuff like that.
Sure.
I market my company.
And then I market the knowledgethat I have from the education
that I want to share.
So really I just try and educatethese facilities, but.
A lot of the facilities know,about hospice and so if they're
(18:49):
sending or feeling like somebodymight be eligible, then it's my
job to sit down with thefamilies and help the families
understand what it looks likeand what's next for their loved
one.
Because you don't want to haveto think about it.
And I recently did an eventwhere people would come up and
they were like, oh, hospice, Ihope I never need it.
And that's the biggest thingthat I always hear is, I hope I
(19:10):
never need you.
And I'm like, but everybody'sgonna die.
That is the one thing we'renever gonna just skip.
All of us are going to gothrough it.
And unfortunately the just, Ihope that I'm just gonna go to
sleep and pass away in my sleepis super rare.
Where you're just gonna go.
And honestly, it's almostsomething that I don't know that
(19:30):
everybody would really wish thatthey could have that if they got
to choose, because that justmeans that you don't ever get to
tell your loved ones reallygoodbye.
You're just gonna say goodnightand then never wake up.
You don't have things set inplace for what's next after your
passing.
You don't have the goodbyes andthe stories and the hugs and the
(19:52):
time that you can still havewhile being on hospice.
And that's where I find it to beimportant because then you do
get to say goodbye, you do getto have, and then maybe you're
ready too.
If you just go to sleep onenight, maybe you're not ready,
yourself ready.
And I don't know that anybody'sever ready, but I think at some
(20:13):
point then you become ready andit's in like an acceptance.
But if you're ready and thenyour family's ready and they're
made ready by having this teamcome in and take care of so many
things.
Yeah.
I think that helps.
Yeah.
The process be a little bit moresmooth.
Yeah.
I had a beautiful experiencewith it, with my grandmother, my
(20:34):
dad's mom.
I was her primary caregiverthrough most of her later years.
And I had to make the difficultdecision to move her from her
apartment.
She was in her nineties and shewas living on her own.
And I would come over and visitand the stove would be on or,
things like that.
She was still trying to driveand was hitting, trash cans in
the alley.
(20:54):
And so I had to take her caraway and, it was a very
difficult process to, to helpher through that'cause she was
so stink and independent andvery stubborn.
But I remember we had to makethe choice to find a beautiful
place for her to move where shecould be cared for and.
I knew something was not right.
I was intuitive enough and hadspent enough time with her to
(21:15):
know that there was a decline,that there started to be some
issues and some problems withher health, and it wasn't just
her memory, and I found thisbeautiful.
Facility in Montrose near whereI grew up and where she lived.
And it was five rooms and theywere beautifully decorated and
the woman that owned thefacility was lovely, and the
other people that were therewere all women.
(21:36):
And it was like walking into ahouse of five of your
grandmothers and it was justthis beautiful spot.
And I remember helping her moveand we moved her in this one
afternoon, it was nearChristmas, and got her all
settled and she was sitting inbed and I was able to hug her
and I said, I'll see youtomorrow.
I'll come check on you.
And said goodbye.
And I got in the car and there'sa whole other part of the story
(21:59):
where it was a couple daysbefore Christmas and I ended up
going into a major huge mallhere in, in Los Angeles.
And she unfortunately had amassive stroke about 30 minutes
after I left.
And I was, actually found by mypartner at the time coming up
the escalator of this massiveshopping center, and he said
(22:20):
that your grandmother has had astroke.
And we unfortunately had tobring in a team to help her.
They couldn't care for herthere.
And I remember the team thattook care of her and the
decisions that we had to makeand the.
Difficulty in which, you know,the struggle, obviously she was
struggling, but we werestruggling as her family as her
primary caregiver and as theexecutor of her estate to make
(22:42):
those decisions that are notalways easy to make right.
To sign the those documentsthat, that will make her most
comfortable.
And we knew we probably didn'thave a lot of time with her, but
if it wasn't for the caregiversthat were there to take care of
her, I don't know what Iwould've done because I wasn't
ready to say goodbye to her.
(23:03):
And yet I knew it was her time.
And I think sometimes, and maybeyou've experienced this and you
can share a little bit about it,but those that are left, living
can be a little selfish.
I self admit it, that I just, Iwasn't ready to say goodbye to
her, and it wasn't until I satwith her one night.
And she had very laboredbreathing and they had gotten
her through that process.
(23:23):
And she had started to say hershe couldn't say her goodbyes,
but people were coming in andsaying their goodbyes like my
dad and other members of thefamily.
And I remember sitting with herand holding her hand and I said,
we love you and it's just beenso amazing to be your grandson,
and I just want you to know thatwe've got you.
And the caregiver walked methrough this process of how to
(23:44):
say goodbye and to give herpermission, to go if it was, if
she was ready.
And I remember saying thosewords to her and left her that
evening.
And, next morning at work atnine forty five, I got a phone
call that she had passedpeacefully.
After this very.
Tumultuous couple of days.
And I remember saying to my mom,I don't know what I would've
(24:05):
done if it hadn't been for thosepeople that cared for her.
And I'm so grateful to them.
So grateful because they held ittogether where I was not in that
space of being of clear mind andbeing able to handle that.
So I give you all just massivekudos and angels how I feel in
this world to help those of usgo through those processes of
(24:27):
saying goodbye to our lovedones.
Are there any other myths or anyother kind of conversations
that, that you want to share,that you hear that would help
people understand this process alittle bit more?
I was like, there's always likemyths that people have in there.
That it's like a place to die orthat you go somewhere and it's
just kind death.
I feel like it's just so muchmore to that.
(24:48):
Really what I try and havepeople understand is, like you
said, it's people that are gonnacome in and take the reins of
focusing on quality of life andcomfort.
And that's really the goal.
But it's just, it's alsosomething that they deserve to
have and they deserve to have agood team that comes in.
So it comes down to the clinicalteam that's gonna come in and
(25:08):
educate the families on what'shappening and what it looks like
while also, if the patient isstill able, alert enough to
understand, to also help themthrough the process.
As well as, I have AIDS thatcome in and they give phenomenal
baths, even bed baths if they'rebedbound.
Because being clean is dignityand being clean is a sign of
(25:30):
comfort.
It's not a washcloth across theface.
And then, getting upset that youhave to clean up somebody and
like throwing the wash clothacross the floor and leaving,
it's about showing up with thislike pure love for this human
that also just maybe just needsto be cleaned up a little bit
and have a clean shave ifthey're a guy or their head
scratched for a shampoo for, ifthey're a woman or whatever they
(25:52):
need.
And I think that's really wherethen having the right team comes
in.
Because you can have a hospiceagency, but that doesn't mean
that you're gonna be providingthis wonderful hospice care.
And really what I truly believein and is that it is.
Truly about taking care of theentire person.
We're not just coming in andgoing, here's your medication.
Please take your medication andlay down in bed and don't do it.
(26:14):
That's not quality of life.
And it should be for whatevertime is left.
So Medicare says that it's a sixmonth benefit, and I say that,
yes.
For the most part, we look atwhere somebody was six months
ago, where they are now, andthen based off the, where
they've been, where they are,they could possibly not be here
in six months.
However, we don't have a crystalball that says, oh yep, you are
(26:35):
gonna be here, exactly sixmonths or that we kick you off
if you live longer than that.
You're still, we're with you forwhatever your journey looks
like.
And I think that's where.
When you take care of a wholeperson as a person and you see
them as a person, and thatincludes body, mind, and
spiritual then the person's ableto pass more peacefully.
(26:56):
Yeah.
If you can talk to familymembers and say, Hey, I made
your grandma comfortable, she'snow sleeping peacefully, or, I
made your mom comfortable or wedidn't just do it with
medication, but talking to youthrough it so that you can say,
I'm gonna be okay when you'regone.
Then, the passing is a loteasier on the patient, but the
family and something that we'verecently talked about that my
(27:18):
boss finds to be somethingthat's like a driving force.
I feel like we start coming upwith new driving forces of why
we do what we do.
And it's really coming intoreally that I.
Not only what they deserve, butthen the family that's left, you
know how they grieve that lossis going to affect their
(27:38):
day-to-day life.
Yeah.
So if we don't show up in theway that we need to with
compassion and kindness andreally take care of this person,
but only, but being able to dothat for a longer period of
time, not coming in, in awhirlwind tornado last days of
somebody's life.
Because, we didn't want to dohospice sooner.
We get that time with the familyand so then their grieving after
(28:01):
passing is gonna affect theirlife, how they are as their own
mother to somebody else.
As a daughter still to somebody.
As somebody that's still workingas a coworker, as a friend, as
other family members like thatgrief is going to be something
that shapes them afterwards.
And I say that because mybiggest why is my grandmother.
(28:22):
So I'd been in hospice aboutseven months, and she was one of
the first people to catch COVID,and she's the one that died in a
facility.
It took 23 people when it wentthrough her facility, and I
watched her through a windowchoking on her blood from her
lungs as she was dying.
And I didn't think to gethospice for her because, and I'm
(28:46):
that family member then that waslike, I didn't think to get it.
I didn't, I was going throughthe motions of grieving and she
died in pain and she died alone.
And those are two things that Idon't want anybody else to have
to go through.
And so my biggest get up and goin the morning is so that nobody
else has to go through what Idid and I had the knowledge.
So trying to educate so thatthat this person's not, you're
(29:09):
not gonna die alone.
They're not gonna die alone.
But that they're gonna diepeacefully and not in pain is
the biggest thing.
Because how my grandmother diedaffected my mother.
I watched it and I've stillwatched it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How she has moved through lifelosing her mom, and her mom were
very close has been, it'saffected a lot of her day to day
(29:30):
and things that she's done.
And so I think that had she hadthe opportunity to have hospice,
to have somebody sit with herand talk with her and know that
she was taken care of and wasn'tin this place of pain while she
choked I think my mom would'vebeen a lot better on the other
end.
And I think she still holds hergrief.
(29:50):
And my grandmother died in 2020,so that's something that when my
boss said that, I was like, no,that hits home.
Very much because it's an entirepiece that you're given and
it's.
A whole team that comes in thathelps you move in this
transitional period from life todeath.
(30:13):
But it also helps you transitionas a family member.
On how your life is going tolook like next.
And what that's gonna look like.
Yeah.
And one of the big things that Italk about is we have this
mindset of birth being sobeautiful.
We talk about birth all thetime.
Beau birth is beautiful and thisbaby's here.
And it's such a beautifulexperience and this child then,
(30:38):
I'm not saying that it's not, itdefinitely is still a beautiful
process, but this child has beenhere for five minutes.
That's it.
So why are we not also treatingsomebody's end of life that's
been here for 80 years, 90years, 60 years, whatever.
With the same dignity andrespect that we're giving to
these humans that have barelybeen on earth enough to do any
like these have, they havememories, they have stories,
(31:00):
they have families.
And I think that if we approachit differently, yeah.
There's a stigma that comes withdeath.
There's a total stigma.
And it's, again, because wedon't talk about it I admit it,
I am terrified of it.
Not my own, like I, but like Iam, I don't want to die, but I'm
terrified of it.
And with my mom and the peoplethat I love and that I care
(31:21):
about, and I have not through mylife.
I'm 59 this year.
I was thinking about this as wewere getting ready to record
this episode today.
I have not experienced death tothe extent that some of my
contemporaries have people thatI know in my life grandparents
have passed.
Friends have passed.
Yeah.
A par a parent has passed, butI.
(31:43):
I haven't experienced it in, in,in the quantity that other
people have.
And so it, it scares me and Idon't like to talk about it.
And I was thinking as you weresharing, and you were talking
about that right before yousaid, we take this birth and we
celebrate it.
I was thinking in my head, theteam of people that are there as
you come into this world, right?
It's from everybody.
From Yeah.
(32:03):
The doctors to the nurses, tothe NICU people, to all of the
people that are there to helpand assist you and to guide the
mother through the birth and thefather and the, all of that, or
the significant other isenormous.
And then there's this stigmaaround the passing.
And when I was listening to youtalk, I was thinking about.
Even through movies andtelevision, there is a way that
(32:26):
death is portrayed that is, asyou are sharing it, completely
different than what weexperience in the movies or in
television.
There's always this morbidity,I, for lack of a better term
around it.
And I was thinking about whatyou said about the person, it's
difficult for the family memberswho are watching their loved one
(32:49):
through this end stage.
But there's got to be aconversation for the patient
that we will never know whatthat conversation is that
they're having internally.
And I've noticed through acouple of friends and a family
member who I can see the processand I can see the conversation
(33:14):
starting.
My mom, for example, a lot ofher friends.
She'll be 85 this year.
She'll probably kill me forsaying that, but she'll be 85.
Very healthy, knock wood.
And yet she has friends that arequite a bit older, she's lost
friends this year in the lastcouple of years since COVID.
And I sit and listen to her,share that experience of what
(33:37):
it's like and what it's doing toher and what it's doing to her
willingness to get outside andto be active and to be engaged.
And I see, and I hear that a lotin my friends who have parents
that are aging.
And so to think about thatconversation that's going on for
the person who may be in thatposition of hospice or needing
(33:58):
hospice, but to have a team ofpeople that's there to help walk
'em through that process has tobe.
Lessening the difficulty of thatconversation to a magnitude that
I don't know that we canmeasure.
I think it would be sobeneficial.
Again, still hard and stilldifficult to process, but what a
gift that is to give someonethat conversation of we're here
(34:22):
and we've got you and we'regonna be here for you.
Yeah.
Comfort I think is, I'm stilllacking on the word, but am I
off on comfort?
Good word.
Comfort.
Yeah.
I was like, I think comfort's agood word.
I was like, that's what Iusually use and that initial
conversation, really starts withme.
Where I'm asked, answering allthose questions.
But if I told you, okay, yourloved one is eligible, for this
(34:42):
benefit and this benefit lookslike that we're gonna bring in a
hospital bed.
We're gonna bring in oxygen,we're gonna bring in a bedside
table, wheelchair walker, jerrychair.
I'm gonna cover all medicationsthat your loved one is gonna
need.
We're not gonna just stopmedications to make them
uncomfortable, like bloodpressure or thyroid or anything
like that.
And I'm gonna come in with acomfort pack, so that way if
(35:03):
they struggle to breathe or theyare in pain or they have anxiety
we can help make themcomfortable with.
These other medications as well.
But we don't start them rightaway, but all of those are gonna
be covered.
If I tell you that your wholeteam of people, your nurse, your
aide, your social workerspiritual care is gonna come in
and talk with you and make surethat you're comfortable is
(35:26):
included.
And then if I tell you that allof your supplies, all of your
incontinence supplies, chuckwipes, barrier, cream, gloves,
that's gonna be covered.
And then if there's any wounds,some people have wounds from
being bed bound and laying downconsistently, all of those
supplies are gonna be covered,and you're gonna have somebody
that's gonna come and changethose because, just'cause you're
(35:47):
on hospice doesn't mean that youget to be uncomfortable and you
get to lay there with, woundsthat are gonna cause you to go
into septic shock.
Because nobody's doing anythingabout it.
So if I tell you all of that'scovered.
And if I tell you that you'renot gonna pay a dime for it.
And if I tell you that you'regonna be supported and held and
you go through whatever thatlooks like, when I tell people
(36:09):
like that, they're almost like Iwant that.
And then I'm like that'shospice.
And they're like I had no idea.
And then I always joke,'causethen I say, hospice is super
generous, but they're not thatgenerous.
So it's a use it or lose itbenefit.
So it's not like the militarywhere you can pass it on to
somebody else if you don't loseit, if you don't use it.
But it's a good penny, that ourworking life we've paid into our
(36:29):
whole life.
And you're looking at a good,like double digit thousands that
pays for this.
Sure.
That it just goes away.
Medicare just goes, thank you.
We're gonna keep this, if youdon't use it.
Yeah.
If you don't use it.
And then people are like, wait,so I'm so here's the other
thing.
So what if I told you that notusing your hospice benefit.
(36:51):
Is like going into a car lot,buying a brand new car and then
walking out without the keys.
Yeah.
So I'm that's not who's gonna dothat?
Who's gonna be like here's mydown payment on this car, but
I'm out.
Keep the keys.
I'm good.
You guys can do whatever youwant with it.
Then people are like I don'twant to do that.
So then it still comes into the,how can I make it more
(37:14):
digestible?
Is how can I make it andstatistically people actually do
live longer on hospice versusnot sure.
Because we're able to have thetrajectory of our health go in a
sliding versus a big chunksbeing taken out.
And I think when people hearthat and they hear that, we're
gonna do everything we can tomake them comfortable, we're
gonna focus on quality of lifeand comfort.
We're gonna, we're not justgonna come in and be like,
(37:35):
here's your morphine iv, which Ialways try and educate on
morphine.
Morphine is actually the mostgentle opioid that you can take.
People are like, I'd takeDilaudid all day.
And I'm like, that's destroyingyour gut, but morphine's
actually not gonna do that.
And then it actually helps youbreathe.
I didn't realize that wassomething that I'd learned.
And so I always try and educatethat, but at the end of life the
(37:56):
smooth muscle that goes aroundyour midsection becomes like a
girdle.
And so it's, it starts tosqueeze and so they can't take a
deep breath while morphinerelaxes smooth muscle and allows
somebody to be able to then takea deep breath, and then it also
helps the oxygen and the bloodgo further.
So instead of making people passout like they think it would, a
(38:17):
small amount actually could helpthem.
Sure.
Be up, be alert, have those lastconversations with people, tell
them that they love them, whatthey want, what they're feeling,
et cetera.
And leave people then to belike, okay, I got to say my
goodbyes.
I got to say I'm good if youleave.
Go be where you are and havethat conversation.
(38:38):
And then when they leave, theneverybody can go through the
grieving process Sure.
And hopefully a better betterthan what they thought that it
would be.
Yeah.
Kind of experience.
Yeah.
And I've heard more often thannot, I've been doing this six
years now.
That still seven out of 10people say they wish they'd
(38:58):
called me sooner.
So interesting time to ask thisquestion in our current
environment is, so it'sautomatic with Medicare.
It reverts.
It reverts.
And is Medicare automatic foreveryone that qualifies?
So if they have advantage plans,then it reverts to Medicare Part
A.
(39:19):
And what's the advantage plan?
So what we use would be likeyour your Anthems, your Humanas,
stuff like that.
And what type of policy.
So our listener would understandthat.
So like when you say it reverts,what type of policy would they
have that would revert toMedicare?
So any of them, if they electtheir hospice benefit, any of
their advantage plans willrevert to Medicare Part A.
(39:40):
Okay.
So when it reverts to Medicarepart A, we actually, then when
we go in and they signpaperwork, what happens then is
we replace Medicare Part A withthat hospice.
So it's like we become theirinsurance.
Okay.
And we bill that way.
Okay.
Now if they get better and theygraduate off of hospice, then it
just reverts back to whateverthey had.
(40:00):
So somebody who let's say, superhealthy in their fifties, maybe
late fifties, is obviouslylooking towards the future.
What do they need to do or what,where do they start inquiring
about that type of policy?
Because don't think fifties.
Yeah.
They don't teach that.
So if they have a commercialplan, I would look into whatever
commercial plans they have andmake sure that they have hospice
(40:27):
benefits.
Okay.
And that's something they canask their insurance provider,
right?
Their agent.
That they have hospice and thatfalls under their general
healthcare.
That falls under their generalmedical plan.
Like their health insurance forbasic commercial insurance.
So basic I don't think that Ihave one, but I should probably
get one.
(40:47):
That's why I'm asking because Iknow for a fact that there are
friends of mine that we'vetalked about this and that don't
have it.
So I'm encouraging them to talkto their insurance companies.
Yes, and be clear.
And it's about education.
And I think that's reallyimportant is that we need to be
our own advocates.
We learn that through thepandemic.
(41:07):
We need to be our own advocatesand fighting for our own
healthcare and our own healthbenefits.
And so we need to also beprepared in knowing what
potentially comes in our future.
And I think we think there'stime to do that down the road.
We can do it down the road.
There's time.
And I think we learned veryquickly during the pandemic that
there isn't time that we need tobe aware of this now.
(41:28):
And so I encourage and I thinkwhy it's important to have this
conversation is my circle offriends, for the most part, are
dealing with aging parents andare also dealing with,
potentially looking for towardsour future, what that looks
like.
And so I want to be the advocateto talk about these things in
such a way like you're doingtoday.
I learned three things todayjust in what you shared, that I
(41:50):
had no clue.
No clue that hospice came withall of those elements that you
talked about.
No clue.
And I've been through it.
I had no clue there was a socialworker or a spiritual component
of that.
I had no clue.
So I'm hoping that through theseconversations, people will wake
up and go, oh, I should take alook at that.
(42:10):
When I was getting ready for thepodcast episode, I started to do
some research and you can godown a rabbit hole of
information on hospice care andpalliative care and all of these
types of things.
And it's important to geteducated.
And so I'm gonna reallyencourage people to do that.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
A question for you, so how do Iask this question and not go
(42:33):
down the rabbit hole, but is itsomething that is potentially at
risk in this current moment?
Is hospice care something thatcould eventually be affected by.
No policy.
I don't know.
But I want to say that, I wouldsay that that wouldn't go over
well if there were cuts made tosomebody's end of life care.
(42:55):
Nobody really wants to touch.
Cutting end of life.
However, they may do it in otherways.
There may be more difficulties,there may be more loopholes.
Sure.
Restrictions, I don't know,restrictions, what they plan on
doing.
With it I think for now peopleare good.
Yeah.
But, it could be that by thetime I need it, it's not
available.
And, I hope that we don't cometo that.
(43:16):
I hope that's not something Itake away.
I think it's very important.
Yep.
But if you even have, but alsoMedicaid will mirror Medicare
for insurance if they have that.
And then, if you're under 65,but you have specific terminal
diagnoses.
You can also be on advantageplans because my mom had her
cancer.
She's not 65 and she does have aMedicare Advantage plan.
(43:37):
My biggest educational piece isanybody that is going into
turning 65, close to 65, they'recalling and saying, the
advantage plans are so muchbetter.
You can get gr a hundred dollarshere and a hundred dollars here.
We'll buy groceries, we'll dothat.
They're lying.
And I highly recommend havingtraditional Medicare over an
Advantage plan.
I could not stress that enough.
(43:58):
So say that again.
So you recommend traditionalMedicare?
Traditional Medicare as opposedto the Advantage plan?
Okay.
Yes.
I had a family recently that Italked to and she's they, I
didn't mean to switch, but theytalked us into, we had.
Groceries that they gave us.
They said that we would getmoney back for groceries.
And I was like I understandthat.
And then she's yeah, but theylied to us because then in the
(44:20):
little bitty fine print, it wascut after so many times they're
like, oh, we're not doing thatanymore.
So then get people to switch.
'cause once you switch, thenit's either harder, you can't go
back.
And how are they making moneyoff that?
Is it, are they making money offthat because it's a subsidy and
then because you're not payingthat.
So it's, they're obviouslyupselling you because they'll
get more money in return fromthe plan.
(44:40):
They don't pay as much dependingon what you need.
So really it's not gonna affectyou for hospice.
Where it's gonna affect you isgonna be in like your home
health rehab, stuff like that.
Where they want you to getbetter instead of coming to
hospice.
Sure.
And the only reason I know thatis my grandfather.
My grandfather had a super badissue with his urinary.
(45:01):
Splatter, stuff like that.
They were trying to figure outwhat was going on.
He had talked about going to theAdvantage plans and I told him,
I said please just stick withyour regular Medicare.
I promise you it'll be worth it.
But he's but I'm healthy.
I could use the a hundreddollars grocery things.
I said, no, I hear you.
Please stay with regularMedicare.
And he's fine.
Not even six months after we hadthis conversation, he developed
(45:21):
a huge UTI huge issue.
Like they were truly trying tofigure it out.
Had to have a catheter in himfor a couple of days, and he
went through all of thesetestings,$0.
Had he switched to an advantageplan either A, he wouldn't have
gotten those, or B, he would'vepaid hundreds for that.
And he's I couldn't haveafforded the hundreds.
And I said, see, that's why Itold you to keep that medi.
(45:41):
And he's okay, I'm not, Ibelieve you now.
I'm not gonna switch.
I said, because just'cause youmight be healthy in this moment
doesn't mean something's notgonna happen later or where you
need the rehab'cause you falland break a hip.
Or you need the home health andPT to come in.
You're not gonna get theagencies that are good because
the reimbursement rate for aphysical therapist on advantage
(46:04):
plans are poor.
And so then you're not gonnahave as many or good quality
versus having your Medicare.
Then they can have the good PTsthat are come, gonna come in.
You can have the good visits,you can have all of these
things.
That can set you up for successand not need any.
Does the patient have the choiceof which agency they go with or
(46:26):
is it the agency assigned to thepatient through Medicare?
No, it is always patient choice.
Oh.
So in our area here, they willgo into the hospital system and
the hospital will try and pushtheir own.
I always say, please educateyourself, do research, reach out
to them.
Having a conversation with fiveof me with five different
(46:46):
agencies is totally acceptableto do.
We all have our Medicareguidelines, we all have our
Medicare standards that weshould be following.
And I will say that my companyis very compliant.
But outside of that, it's what?
What makes us different and whatmakes us different is gonna be
my clinical team.
I don't have somebody that'sworking a nine to five because
(47:08):
they need to pay bills.
I have somebody that wants totake care of those people and
wants to treat them as peopleand wants to show up with
kindness and compassion.
And I think that's gonna alwaysset us apart from other
agencies.
So what are the top three thingsthat someone should look for
when they're looking at theagency?
(47:29):
Authenticity, which you can tellvery quickly within the
marketer.
Because if the marketer is therejust for money.
You're gonna tell in the waythat they talk to you.
If you're good at reading peoplelet's face it, if they're
pushing that used car salesmanapproach on all the things you
have.
Yeah.
They're gonna come off as a usedcar salesman.
Yeah.
And not asking questions likeI'm sure you do.
(47:51):
And really looking into theneeds of the patient and the
family as opposed to, here'sthis plan with this shiny
benefit and this little bell andwhistle and this little upgrade.
That's what I would think wouldbe a big red flag.
Is there something else?
If it sounds too good to betrue?
Then it might be some agenciescan promise certain things in
the moment to get you to signpaperwork and then under
(48:14):
deliver.
So something that I always sayfor myself is I was like, I'm
not gonna over promise and underdeliver.
I'm gonna give you exactly whatyou need.
And that's really what sets usapart.
So I was like, you're gonna getwhat you need Medicare, but then
what you need within the agency.
So having somebody that you cantell is that used car salesman,
that person that's gonna belike, if you're like, can I
have, and they're like, oh yeah,you can have whatever you want.
(48:35):
You can have this, you can havethat, you can have that, and
we'll bring you Burger Kingevery other day.
Promise, probably not.
And then they're just trying.
And then also I would look forfigure out too, like where your
staffing is.
Whether or not they are overunderstaffed or if they're
staffed accordingly.
I would say I'm staffedaccordingly.
But if they don't allow you tochoose, to, I would look at
(48:57):
that.
Allow you to choose your staffor your team.
Allow you to choose the agency.
Oh, the agency.
Yeah.
If they are, there's times wherethere will be the hospital
liaisons are like the me of thatcompany and they will push their
own.
And so saying that you want alist and to research then you
can also go into medicare.gov.
(49:18):
And you.
The three agencies that you see,and then those are all scores
that are given to the agenciesbased off family's feedback.
So there is an agent, sorry,it's important.
Didn't mean to interrupt.
So there is a resource for youto check.
medicare.gov.
Okay.
So you can check the agencies.
(49:39):
'cause obviously the agencieshave to be registered and
listed.
If they're not registered andlisted, if they're new, they may
not show up yet.
Okay.
So those would be where I wouldwant to, so if they don't have a
score, then it means thatthey're probably less than two.
They might be a little bitbehind.
So two and a half-ish years.
Okay.
But you also have to have acensus of 50 before these like
surveys will go out and thesesurveys go out after the passing
(50:02):
of a patient.
Okay.
And so once these surveys goout, they're sent out by
Medicare.
It doesn't matter.
So my agency, every otheragency, every patient that
passes, they all get the samequestionnaire, they all get the
same survey, and it's sentwithin six to eight weeks after
your loved one passes.
So really when you're still likeraw in grieving, that's Hey, did
you like your team?
Were they good?
(50:22):
Were they this, did they giveyou this?
Did they do that?
So there are like questions toanswer and a lot of those scores
then are generated based off offamily feedback.
Okay.
So then you can really knowwhere they stand.
So for those agencies that maybeknew, if you don't see the
rating, is there a way to makesure they're legit?
I would still call and sit downwith ours.
(50:43):
Like ours took a while.
We were newer to the AR area andso they just had to talk to me
and we just, it almost had to belike a kind of can you trust us?
But I would assume you, you haveto be licensed.
So I would assume there wouldalso be ways to check licensing
and permit, not permiting, butlicensing.
And we were accredited,accredited.
Thank Youc.
Yeah, thank you.
I knew it was, I knew there wasa word in there somewhere to
(51:04):
you.
Yeah.
So you want them to beaccredited?
Yes.
Accredited surveyed certificate,something you, they have to have
that to be an open hospice.
But just'cause they're not onMedicare go.gov, that just means
they're a newer agency that hasmaybe popped up in the area.
And so their scores haven't comethrough yet.
I have a couple final questionsfor you.
(51:25):
Fascinating conversation.
Thank you so much.
My head is spinning.
Sorry.
No, in a good way.
In a good way.
It just gets you thinking,right?
It gets you thinking.
That there are questions to askand preparations to make to ask
your mom, like even if you don'twant to have that conversation,
it's mom, if something happenedin a week from now, like do you
want all of these things inplace?
(51:46):
Do you want me to get a hospice?
Do you want to sit with me rightnow and go through the ones that
are here?
And that if that happened threeyears from now, I know which
ones to call.
If they fall off, then you havetwo others.
But being like, you both lookedat different things and agreed
on'em together and there's nosaying that you couldn't have
somebody like me and be like,hi, she's healthy, but I want to
(52:06):
sit and talk.
I want to feel your vibe.
They may not be there when sheneeds them, but you could know
about the agency.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's importantbecause even, like I said, mom's
super healthy, not good.
It's interesting'cause I havesomebody come in.
Yeah.
We have somebody come in andhelps her once a week after she
fell and she's now been here acouple years and they've got
this great relationship and Ilove that they're together and
(52:27):
the owner of the agency isamazing.
Patty, we talk all the time.
So there's that comfort level.
But it took me a while toconvince my mom Yeah.
To allow this person to comeinto her home.
'cause my mother's veryindependent and there was even a
moment where.
She didn't work there anymore.
And then my mother needed heragain and brought her back, and
then my mother was like, I'llnever have her leave again.
(52:49):
So I was very grateful for that.
But I, it's one of those thingsthat you think about sitting
down and just having thatconversation.
It's the same thing about, wetalk about what are your wishes
in terms of your burial?
Do you want to be cremated?
Do you want to be buried in thecemetery?
It's what are those kind ofquestions that you have to, and
we had to ask those questionswhen we did the family trust.
(53:09):
And so if you could look at itfrom a way, and how I look at it
is I just want us to beprepared.
I don't want to be caught offguard.
Should something happen to you.
And I even told her what I want.
I travel so much.
Who's to say, God forbid, but wehave that conversation what I
want as well.
And so if we can come from aplace of just the preparedness,
(53:30):
not of the, let's just, beDebbie Downers and have the
conversation.
I think it's really important.
I'd rather be prepared.
We recently were thinking aboutall the people at the fire as my
mom was evacuated and so didn'thave all of her paperwork
together of just the basics.
And so we now have that handled.
So there's just things that youdon't expect.
Banking.
Banking I've come into that,like banking, there's been so
(53:50):
many kids that like all of asudden this happened and they're
like, I can't get into myparents' account.
I can't pay for this, I can't dothis, I can't get this.
And I'm like, okay I'm one part.
I can give you resources.
But I got off the phone likehaving that meeting and I called
my dad and was like, yeah, Idon't need any of your
passwords, but you have itwritten down in a book
(54:10):
somewhere.
And so if something happens, Ineed to know where that book is.
Yeah.
I don't need, and I said, butyou need to put me I told my
dad, I said, I need to be on allof your checking.
I don't need to know anything,but my name needs to be on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause if I go to call, yes.
I was like, who's to say youdon't get an accident and you're
unconscious.
Mom was with you.
She's unconscious.
I still have to pay yourmortgage while we're figuring
things out.
Yeah.
How am I supposed to get in anddo that?
(54:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so after that, he's oh, Ididn't, I just thought you
wanted access to my checkingaccount.
I was like, absolutely not.
But my name needs to be on it.
So when I call, they'll talk tome.
We just moved my mom's financialinstitution after 30 years and
the same conversation.
And it's, I now, after thatfire, because when my mom left
and was evacuated, she had 30minutes to get out and.
(54:53):
Was not thinking I need to takethat box that I have that has
all my paperwork in it.
And so we had this really funnyconversation and she's very
sarcastic.
As am I, and she's you're tryingto steal all my money and lock
me up.
I'm like, lady, if I wanted tolock you up, I would've locked
you up a long time ago because Ihave all your passwords.
Yeah.
Okay, but we can joke aboutthat.
And it's done in a loving way.
(55:14):
And but it's important becauseagain, I, my dad's not around.
She's by herself.
And if something were to happen,I need to be able to take care
of her and care for her.
So I encourage people to meetwith an attorney, to put the
things in the trust.
It's interesting too, after thefire I was.
Spinning through Instagram,watching some of the news
(55:35):
stories, and someone came on andsaid, if you have a family trust
and you have homeowner'sinsurance, your homeowner's
insurance has to identify theliving trust as additionally
insured on your homeowner'sinsurance, or they won't cover
you.
And we're going through hugeissues with that here in
California.
(55:55):
Huge.
The insurance company does notnecessarily have to pay you if
you don't list your trust asadditional insured.
So I went to the insurancecompany, took my mom's trust,
went in and we added it and theguy sitting behind the desk
said, we have done hundreds ofthese in the last couple weeks
since the evacuations becausepeople realized they didn't have
this.
And I thought, isn't that yourjob as the insurance company
(56:18):
when you set the insurance up totell us that it needs to happen?
Yeah.
So I share that only becauseit's just another set of
conversations that you can haveto be prepared.
Archer.
I can't thank you enough forthis conversation.
I think it's really.
Empowering to sit with somebodywho has the experience.
There's a whole host of otherquestions that I could ask you.
(56:40):
I want to invite you backanother time to maybe further
the conversation, but then alsotalk about a few other things
that have popped up as a result.
But I'm really grateful that youwere able to share this part of
your life that's so important.
And I just want to say, I saidthis to you originally, that
there are angels in this worldwho simply are out to make a
(57:01):
huge difference.
And not only are you making adifference within your own
community and the transcommunity, and you're educating
people about what it means tolive an authentic life and to be
yourself.
You spend your life dedicated tohelping others, and it just.
Number one, it just makes melove you more.
But number two, it just showsjust how important it is that we
(57:24):
are here on this earth to be ofservice to others.
And it doesn't mean that theyhave to do what you do, it just
means that we have to becognizant of the people around
us and what they might need,especially now more than ever.
So I encourage people to reachout and to connect with people
and to have those difficultconversations and to be able to
speak freely and to speakpassionately about your care for
someone else.
(57:45):
I think it'll make people's day.
So I want to, again, thank youfor all the information that
you've shared.
Anything you want to say inclosing as we wrap up this
conversation today?
No.
If anybody has any questions, Idon't care where you are.
If you know any of my socials,you can send me a message and
I'm more than willing to answerany of your hospice questions
and help point you in the rightdirection.
We're gonna make sure, I thinkit's important.
(58:05):
So yeah, we're gonna make sureto put access to your Instagram
account.
I encourage people just to go.
Check you out and follow you andbe part of that positivity that
is really infectious We'll makesure we do that.
Thank you for being here, andthank you for sharing again, and
I can't wait to have you back onanother episode.
Can't wait.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
(58:26):
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Alright, everyone, thank youagain for joining us on today's
episode.
I hope our conversationresonated with you like it did
me, and I cannot wait to sitdown with you all again next
week.
Remember to subscribe to theJust You Podcast on your
favorite platform so you canmake sure not to miss a new
episode, which drop everyThursday.
(58:48):
If you like what you hear, youcan easily share the podcast and
episode.
Directly with your friends andif you would rate us and leave
us a review, we'd love to hearfrom you.
You can also follow us onInstagram at just Do you pod as
you go out into the world today.
Remember to just do you.
Alright, talk next week.
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