Ep. 164 - ‘Being a Creative in 2025’ with James Piercy and Tayla Kenyon - Just Get A Real Job

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hello, I am Jamie McKinley and you are listening to another
episode of Just Get a Real Job. Thank you very much for tuning
in. Hope you're all having a good
week. I'm thrilled to welcome on the
show this week the founders of TP Productions, Taylor Canyon
and James Pearcy. It was lovely to have them on
the show and it was really nice to chat to them about their new
show Fluff, which they are currently on tour with now.

(00:25):
There's still a few dates of that available, so check the
links in the show notes if you're in London or if you're in
Southend. I think there's still some
tickets left to those shows thatthey're currently on tour with.
We recorded this episode about two months ago and just as
they're about to start the tour.So as this goes out, I'm sure
Taylor and James are very tired,but hopefully enjoying the tour.
But this is a really interestingepisode if you're interested in

(00:46):
theatre particularly. But if you just are interested
in being a creative and you workin the creative industries, a
lot of this conversation should resonate with you.
And it was really nice to get their honest insights into what
it's like to start a fear company from scratch and what
it's like to put on a show and tour it and take a show like
Fluff on tour. And just to hear about the
lessons they've learned from Taylor being an actor, from

(01:07):
James being a director and producer and other things.
A really interesting conversation.
And Taylor actually spoke to from a theatre as well.
So if there's the occasional bitof audio seeping through or
background and stuff, that's just the way of it sometimes
when we record podcasts. Taylor was out in the wild, But
hope you enjoyed this week's episode.
Thank you as well to everyone that came out to see the QAI
hosted last night. A few of our Scottish listeners

(01:28):
came along, which is always lovely when you guys come to
support us. Yeah, it was really nice to host
a week QA for a new film called Time Travel is Dangerous, which
is out in cinemas now. I said to the guys there that I
would give them another plug, sobe sure to go and see that in
cinemas if you're around this week in the UK.
It's out across the UK And without much further ado, it is
time for episode 164. Hope you enjoy.

(02:01):
Just. Get a real thank you very much
for coming on, just getting a job today.
It's lovely to have you both on the show.
I know one of you is recording from the old Victoria as well,
which is class. But just before we start, just
both want to introduce yourself and then we'll get into it.
We've got loads to talk about. Yes hello I'm James Pearcy, I'm
a writer and the and the Co founder of TP Productions.

(02:26):
Hi I'm Taylor Kenyon I am an actor and writer and the other
Co writer of Bluff and the othercofounder of TV productions.
Class Well, it's lovely to have you both on and you, you, you
are in the upstairs of the Old Vic in London right now.
That's where you're coming live from, Taylor.
Yeah, I am. That makes it sound like I'm in

(02:47):
something here, which I'm not just using their space because
I'm in something at the Union Theatre just down the road, like
a new writing night. So yeah, pretty cool.
Yeah, I'm in my old venue, so it's not quite the old Victoria,
but it still has some meaning tome in my life.

(03:08):
And you're in Birmingham, right?That's that's where.
You are. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's, that's interesting. Well, thank you for joining us
from different parts of the UK. We're all we're all coming
together. And obviously you want to talk
about your new play fluff today we're going to we're going to
plug that which you're about to go into a free month tour of,
aren't you? So it's exciting.
And that kicks off in like what,two weeks or something mad.

(03:28):
Yeah. Well, we this time next week
Wednesday. Wow.
And when this goes out, you willbe like meant to.
You'll be like meant to. So that's exciting.
But yeah, why don't we kick off?Yeah.
Tell us quickly about Fluff. We'll we'll go into more
details. We go and then we'll get sort of
talk about both of you and your careers and get to know he's

(03:49):
both a bit as well. Because this podcast is all
about the creative arts and helping people navigate it and
get into it. And I know we have both done
quite a lot of interest in the market and accessibility in
theatre and you're very conscious of that as well.
So there's lots. I want to talk to you a bit.
But yeah, tell us a bit about Fluff first and then yeah, we
can. We'll talk a bit more about you
guys personally. Do you want to go fast, Taylor?

(04:10):
I always leave James to do to dothe kind of like synopsis of
fluff because it's got lots of twists and turns and we never
want to give things away or sellit as just one thing when it's
when it's another. So I'm always just like James,
do you do our kind of thing thatwe've we've practiced, but now
it's come to me. So I'll have to just suck it up
and do it. OK, so fluff is solo show is

(04:35):
darkly comedic and it is about awoman who is reflecting on her
memories and her life choices and she has to navigate her past
and everything that that that entails to to find her present,
basically. So it's kind of there's a bit of
a cryptic when describing what it is, but we have to try and

(04:56):
not give give things away. But along the side of that, it
has themes of of dementia, family, love a little bit a
little bit of intergenerational trauma in there.
You know what we what we kind ofinherit from our families,
things that we want to inherit and things that we maybe don't.
So yeah, there's quite a lot of layers to to what's going on in

(05:19):
the show. James, do you want to add
anything to that? No, I think you did a really
great job. Did I do it was nice to sit
back. And let you do it for a change.
There you go. I've I've interrupted your usual
flow there, but it seems to haveworked there.
You got some good practice, you know you can.
Yeah, yeah. He's put the rules on our toes.
It's good. Yeah, it's good.

(05:40):
It's good. I should, I should.
And how did you, hey, did you both come to collaborate on this
project as well? How do you both know which is
what that tell us that because we don't all often have like
sort of collaborators on the show at the same time.
Yeah, we, we, we found that quite a lot actually, whenever
we've spoken to people, like theidea of two writers or being in
a collaborative team usually is quite intriguing to people and

(06:04):
how it works. And like you said,
geographically, even today, well, we're not in the same
space and we didn't, we didn't meet in the same location
organically. We, during the pandemic, we're
probably shut down. And I think just to kind of keep
ourselves creatively active, we've both joined a writing

(06:24):
group separately, which was bi week, bi weekly, and we'd meet
up every week. There'd be challenges, we'd
write things, we'd discuss them,we'd talk about our ideas, our
narratives, our characters. And then just slowly over the
1012 week period of this writingcourse, we got to know each
other. And then once it finished, we
kind of reached out and said, oh, I really enjoyed what you

(06:44):
did during the courses. I really like your writing.
You have a very similar sentiment to me.
Would you be interested in working on something?
Obviously Taylor also acts. So the nation, the notion was
that we would create a show thatTaylor could go on to form.
And then we just kind of continued these kind of weekly
Zooms where we come together andwe'd discuss ideas.
And slowly but surely that's started to filter down to things

(07:06):
that we had in common and thingsthat we had a shared interest
in. And we kind of had a shared
history in terms of one particular thing, in terms of
the dementia aspect of the show.And then just through that, we
started to throw ideas around. And then the character of fluff
was born. And then once we kind of had
something to hang our hat on, wejust slowly started to build

(07:27):
this character from the ground. But yeah, fluff's like what, two
years in this sort of making is are like like sort of, or would
you say longer is it sort? Of maybe it was longer.
To be fair, the writing course that we did was during the
pandemics. That would have been 2020, and I
still keep it now that it's 2025.

(07:48):
So I suppose it's been 25. Or yeah, to get to this point.
Yeah, it has been. I guess I don't know when we had
the like the show, I'm a bit loath to say like the done show
because it's never never feels quite done.
Like you always want to keep keep writing and and tweaking

(08:08):
it. But maybe, maybe four years.
Maybe. But to this point, yeah, it's
been five years. Yeah.
Well, we're at that point. They were locked down.
COVID was five years ago. I, I don't like hearing that out
loud stuff. It's.
Weird. It's weird.
Yeah, it's really weird. And and, and yeah, and, and in

(08:30):
terms of the themes of the show and stuff, dementia, memory and
all these things, like was that something you both connected on?
Did you have you got experienceswith that that maybe brought you
together specifically or did they come more organically?
Well, I think it it started quite organic because we were
just talking about memory and how memory works and how it's
interesting that, you know, people remember things in

(08:52):
different ways and can alter their own memories and things
like that. And we're kind of just talking
about that. And then from that conversation,
it evolved into, yeah, I guess it then did evolve into the
football, Alzheimer's and dementia.
And my granddad had dementia. So I have that experience.
And James, I know someone in your family did too, right?

(09:16):
Yeah, so we, we did, when we dida lot of research around it, we
started to discover that there isn't just like this kind of one
way of dementia work. And there's like different
aspects to it. And alcohol induced dementia can
be a thing where it goes untreated, where it's someone's
kind of alcohol for a really long time that that can start to
have an effect on the brain and the memory.

(09:37):
And it is considered like a formof dementia.
So even though in my family was never really diagnosed and if it
because obviously things come around too late and our
understanding of things come around too late.
But the the struggles of it and what you have to deal with and
it has the person who goes through it and the family who
are also witnessing to it are very similar.

(09:58):
So I think just on the topic of just talking about family, we
both kind of found out that we've gone through similar
things of watching someone we love kind of go through this
hard time with it. No, it's, it's a very I think
it's so universal because I think most people at least know
one person or they know of someone at least that's, you

(10:19):
know, had dementia or, or, you know, a memory, you know, some
what I'm trying to say here. So a disease that affects the
memory. Yeah, is what I was trying to
say. I used to, I was a caterer and
for part of my time as a carer, I was actually in the pandemic
as well with disabled adults andI worked with two guys with Down

(10:40):
syndrome that had dementia. And like what's interesting as
well as the pandemic actually, it speed up their sort of
decrease of memory and it, you know, it probably took a bit of
time off their life because you they weren't going out and
seeing people. And I think that, you know, that
can help slow it down. So no, it's really interesting
and an important thing to explore.
It is because I think the other thing as well, it's about the

(11:01):
stimulation of the brain and howit stimulated.
And one of the things obviously we learned through the research
is how music can obviously be like a great stimulant for
people with dementia and how that can really help with
memory. And obviously during the
pandemic, obviously people can do those things.
And people who did have access to things online.
But ultimately, like the physical interaction you have

(11:22):
with people or the kind of togetherness that we had, yes,
we can do it all online and that's fine.
But you know, it's, it's, it's not the same experience as being
in the room with people and having that kind of back and
forth with people physically. Yeah, but even even, you know,
before the pandemic, before COVID, what I thought was really

(11:45):
interesting, we worked with two charities.
So we worked with Alzheimer's Society and Hearts Musical
Memories, who are both amazing. And I was speaking with the
founder of Hearts Musical Memories, and she said the main
thing that people with dementia struggle with this is
loneliness. And I thought that was really
interesting because I think a lot of the time what happens is

(12:06):
family members or friends or whoever think, well, they're not
going to remember anyway, so I won't go and bother visiting.
But they still feel loneliness, you know, like regardless of
that, they still feel lonely. So yeah, that was just kind of
an interesting insight that thatI hadn't really thought of
before, I guess. It was interesting.

(12:28):
So I suppose because I think loneliness is probably, yeah,
can maybe 'cause dementia to come on faster as well.
Because if you're older and you haven't seen anyone for years
and you maybe you don't have many close family or friends
left. If people are starting to die or
pass away as well or you're isolated, then it you're not
speaking and you're not getting a stimulation.
So that can often bring on dementia faster as well.
So I think it's interesting. It's all linked for sure.

(12:50):
And again, the arts playing a quite an important role with
things like music and allowing people to have memories.
You know, they made me remember specific film or piece of
theatre or something from their youth that it can bring it all
back. So it's interesting how it all
sort of links in. Yeah, I mean, sorry, I'm not,
I'm not plugging them. But Arts Musical memories,
again, I have to talk about it because because it's amazing.

(13:11):
I went to one of their workshops.
So they go around and do music workshops for people with
dementia and like you say, it's it's literally magical.
And I'm sure, you know, probablyfrom, from working with people,
but it's, it's magical. Like what happens when there's
music on that they recognise or references that they that they
recognise and, and they just come alive.

(13:33):
And we, we try to reflect that in the show.
But it's, yeah, it's really shows the importance of the
arts, I suppose. I think the arts is so
interesting when it comes to music and it comes to theatre
and it comes to anything becauseeveryone kind of experiences it
on a singular level. Like it's kind of like from
whatever it is to you and you experience it on one thing.
But then you kind of put it intoa setting where there's other

(13:55):
people experiencing it at the same time as you, and then it
suddenly becomes something otherthan just being about you and
this one particular thing. So watching like Taylor was
saying with Hearts memories, seeing people that may be with
the same thing of dementia and then being in a group and the
music, it's just, it's just miraculous to see how art can be
so inspiring and so healing to people.

(14:18):
Yeah, for sure. No.
And exactly again, why? Why it's so annoying when people
say things like just get a real job or they, you know, devalue
hearts. Speaking of memory, actually,
good question for both of you, but do you both have a good
memory? Do you one of you got a better
memory than the other? James?
What do you think? I think I've got quite a good
memory. I do use a diary, which helps a

(14:39):
lot now as I get older. Just to remind, I used to be
able to remember things quite well as to where I needed to be
in at what time. But now I do need to start
jotting things down. But I, I, I, I like to think I'm
got a good memory. Taylor, I'll let you speak.
I don't, I, I actually don't have a great memory, which is
which is obviously a bit weird because obviously I learn lines

(15:00):
and there's a lot of lines in the show and things like that.
So I guess in, in some ways I doand then in other ways I don't.
I guess it depends what I need to remove.
Maybe it's selective? Maybe.
Have selective leave a tour dates and where you need to be.
Yeah. Yeah, we will be there.
We will be where we need to be. No, I, I think I'm, I was just

(15:21):
saying I'm probably more like you, James.
I feel like a pretty good memory, but I've started to use
a calendar because I feel like Idon't need to hold all this
information in my head. Like I'm, I'm quite good for
being like, well, on this night I'm doing this and blah, blah,
blah. But then it's like, why are you
using all this bandwidth when you could just put it in the
calendar and that will tell you.Why today?
It does help, but I also think as well, it does take it, but
the sense of responsibility in the sense that I like if someone

(15:44):
asks me to be somewhere and I'veagreed to it, then I like to
take accountability for it so I can look at it and go, yes, I
need to be here at this time andI will go.
But then slowly but surely it starts to build up.
And then sometimes I do my calendar and I'm like, James,
you need to start saying no. Yeah, everywhere and everywhere
at the same time. I.
Know I feel, I feel the other thing.

(16:05):
Yeah, I do. I do the same thing, but I have
to like colour coordinate my it's a bit embarrassing.
I know what I'm saying is I would like colour coordinate my
diary with everything that I'm doing.
So it like has categories. OK, this is embarrassing.
I shouldn't be saying it, but yeah.
So that's another level I suppose.
I think yeah, but I suppose it's.
Good to have kind of like a listof urgency as to like what

(16:27):
should be. Done.
Yeah. Priority.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope this is in the rain and
this is like a big part, yeah. Yeah, of course.
It just depends. You know, some things you're
just like, I don't know, it's hard to say.
It's sometimes hard to say. I think I'm quite bad for saying
no to things. I mean, that's a skill,
especially in the arts, because you're often encouraged, like

(16:48):
you say, yes to opportunities. And I mean, and you're like,
it's tricky. Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, it's really hard because you like, you know, you always
think, oh, it's about networkingand it's about showing up and
it's about being at things and seeing your face scene and being
able to speak to people and that's all.
You know, that is true. And obviously you do want to put
the effort in to do that, but you can't go out there if you're

(17:09):
at half a battery. You'd have to be fully charged
and you have to be ready to go put yourself out there.
And I think you spread yourself too thin then you're at risk
then of, you know, being I'll orbeing a bit under the weather or
just feeling a slight bit depressed because you're not at
the full functioning, you know, you're not firing on all
cylinders as you should be if you just gave your time yourself

(17:29):
some time just to relax. Yeah, so true.
And also when like at drama school and in college and in the
training they literally teach you, they like to say yes to
everything. So you're kind of like, I
thought as an actor really earlyon, you should say yes to
everything, which I, which I get, I do understand and in a

(17:52):
way is right. But but James is the same as
what you're saying. But if you're going to turn up
and be like, you know, half, half dead, then there's no point
being there. So yeah, there's a balance which
is really hard in the arts, I think really hard.
I mean, this was a question I was going to ask you a bit later
on, but I'll ask you now becauseit feels very relevant.

(18:14):
But how do you both sort of protect your mental health in
this industry and how do you sort of recharge or make sure
you switch off? James, do you have any
strategies? Have you managed to?
I mean, I feel like I'm still, it's an ongoing process for me.
It's tricky, even after this many years of doing it.
Yeah, I always, people always used to laugh at me because I
feel like I am very extroverted and I do kind of get my energy

(18:36):
from being around other people. But I think the other side of
that is that you do, you do needto go away and you need to
hibernate a little bit. So I think there will be, when I
was younger, it would be very, Iwould do quite a lot, I would go
out quite a lot and I would be around people.
And then maybe the odd one or two days where I'll just kind of
take for myself. And as I get older and I get
into my studies, those days do get longer where I do kind of

(18:58):
hibernate a little bit to myself.
But I just think being in your own space, being around, you
know, the things that you really, really love, whether
that be for me personally, like I love watching movies.
So I can sit and watch 3 or 4 movies in a day if I've got the
time, or I'll sit and read a book.
And then I've also got those chosen people in my life that I
will speak to on a daily basis that kind of feed me my soul and

(19:20):
just give me that energy that I need.
So it's just bringing the circleof people down a little bit
smaller and just, you know, finding the things that do you
do enjoy just kind of, like I said, help you recharge the
lesson from the bathroom just and then go back out there into
the world and give you 110 for that.

(19:43):
Yeah, I'm really bad. I'm really bad at switching off.
I'm really bad at. Yeah, that kind of well-being
stuff, helping stuff. James will tell you, you know,
like gets voice notes for me. And I mean, I'm, I'm a
nightmare. I just really struggle to switch
off and even the things that I'll put in place for
well-being. So like going for a run, for

(20:04):
example, going for walking the dog, that kind of stuff, which
really does help me. I'll then kind of put in a
podcast like this one, which is actually still kind of.
Work related, even though I'm enjoying it and you know what I
mean? So there's a bit, there's always
a bit of that going on with me. I'm like, well, this is for my
well-being, but then I'm listening to something still to

(20:24):
do with writing or acting or producing or what, you know, I'm
still kind of in it. So yeah.
But but exercise, I do try to exercise and making time for
friends and family definitely isa big one.
I love the bath. I'm like obsessed with having a
bath. So if ever I can, I don't

(20:45):
actually have a bath at home. So I have to like to have a
bath. But yeah, that is my main thing.
If I'm really stressed, like I want to bath and then exercise,
try and eat well, drink water, you know, like I try to do those
things. But in terms of like switching
off, yeah, I find that very difficult.

(21:07):
I feel like when we go on tour now, every time you start to get
a bit stressed, we'll have to belike, where's the nearest bath?
Yeah, literally. I'm going to knock on some
randoms door and be like how? Please use your bath.
Or near like even a swimming pool.
There's like a swimming pool that I could just float in or.
Something float in water Therapy.

(21:29):
That's what you need. You hydrate.
Yeah. Basically.
Really interested what you're saying about the podcast stuff.
Like I'm quite bad for that as well.
Like I'll go for a walk and it is my chill time, but I do find
myself listening to like things related to either self
development or like, you know, the arts or whatever it is.
And as much as I'd love to not, you know, think as much as I'd

(21:50):
love to encourage people to listen to this show and, you
know, keep engaging with the podcast, you know, it's also
important to take a bit of time out.
So I'd say like 80% of our listeners will probably work in
this industry because very industry focused.
But, you know, please keep listening.
But also you can turn off if you, you know, if you want to go
and do something else. Yeah, that's very fair.

(22:10):
I don't think it doesn't stress me out or anything like that.
It's just, I don't, I don't know, it's just my mind's just
weird like that. It's the same with like I'll be
like, oh, I'll read, it's reading.
It's time for reading that. Would that would be like wind me
down And then I'll read a play and then it's like within
reading the play, I'm thinking about how the play is crafted
or, you know, it's like there's always something that's not

(22:31):
quite switched off unless I'm inthe bath, basically.
But I think like from yeah, sorry James, sorry, I was just.
Going to say, I think you can take it's like for me, for
example, if I ever listen to podcasts, like I really enjoy,
there's two particular ones thatI really listened to, which one
was about best actress, Oscar winners?

(22:52):
And I just think like it's kind of adjacent to what we do where,
you know, it's discussion of acting and it's about the film
itself and it's about, you know,the matter.
But it's not quite where I'm satthere going, oh, this is what I
need to do. So you can find things that are
in the, you know, the wheelhouseof what you enjoy, but it
doesn't quite make you think, oh, I'm not doing enough and I
should probably be doing more. Well, it's hard to escape, isn't

(23:13):
it? Because like, the arts is in
everything. Like you could argue listening
to music and watching TV, watching films is all like part
of part of that. So yeah, I know what you mean.
But you don't, you know, it's a balance as well, isn't it?
Because you know, sometimes it'syou just need to switch off and
that's a good thing as well. But I always think if I really,
if I can switch off watching TV or a film and I'm not thinking

(23:36):
about it from like a, a story point of view or something, or,
you know, how would I do this asa script that however, like I
know that is really good. So that's a good barometer for
me as well. If I get lost and I'm like, OK,
this is great because it's turned that side of my brain
off, but it's very tricky. Yeah.
I want to ask you both about sort of your early influences as
great people. So if you can cast your memory,

(23:56):
as we talked about earlier, backa bit further.
Like, do you both remember when you were young?
Like, were you always into the arts or did that come a bit
later? You start with you, James, on
this one. Oh, 100%.
I again, like from the very early age, like my entire
childhood, I was always watchingmovies and sticking the VHS tape
in and taking it out and rewinding it and put it back in.

(24:18):
And even with neighborhood friends, like we would play, act
like we've never really played with toys.
Like we would play and we would,you know, role play and we'd
pretend we were the X-Men or we would, you know, reenact films
that we really, really loved. And I remember seeing Matilda
and I thought Matilda for a really long time and I thought I
could make things, you know, Andthen as I got older and, you

(24:38):
know, I think through acting andwatching people play then
introduced me to the world of storytelling and how I would
then start watching films and I would imagine myself in films,
but I'd changed the storyline inmy head.
And then that became like storytelling to me.
And then obviously as you get older, you start to introduce,
you start to mature themes in terms of books and plays.

(25:01):
But I think it always comes downto the imagination and
storytelling. And people have been doing that
for ages. But for me, it came through
those kind of childhood films that you would watch, like The
Wizard of Oz or, you know, like I said, the stories of Roald
Dahl where things were just slightly a little bit more
imaginative than real life. And then you just kind of
imagine yourself in them. And, and then I suppose as I got

(25:22):
older, I thought, OK, well, thisis what I've always wanted to
do. I've always wanted to tell
stories and be a part of tellingthem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the same.It's the same for me.
So since I was like, I was really young, I remember writing
lots of short stories, doing poems and entering short story

(25:44):
competitions and poem competitions and writing songs
that were terrible and getting my brother to like, bang on a
basket and pretend he was playing the drums.
And, you know, that was like ourband.
And then we would like, show begrudgingly because none of my
family are actually into the arts and all this, but I have no

(26:05):
idea where any of it came from. But yeah, yeah, since I was
younger, I've always been doing things like that.
And yeah, forcing my family to to watch in the living room as I
do a play or, or whatever. So, yeah, I don't know where it
came from. I did go to the theatre and
things like that and panto and ham jam and do clubs and things.

(26:27):
But it's not like I can identifylike a person in my family or
anything that I think that that came from.
But I do, I do recall that from a really young age.
That's that's what I loved. Didn't you tell me the other day
that you you still to this day write pantos at Christmas and
get your family they're. Not pantos.
They're serious place. Serious Christmas place.

(26:49):
You apologize. Yes, yeah.
So it's evolved. So it used to be that I would
force my siblings into doing theplay and then the family would
watch the play. But it's evolved now.
But I write a script and everybody gets a part.
So it's like a it's like a reading Christmas.
Yeah, that's. Is it popular or do you think

(27:11):
it's more for you do? You know, they tell me they like
it, but I don't know. I don't know if they do, but
they say, they always say, you know, that's really good.
They're just kind of, I don't know, I.
Mean it's Christmas the midnight, yeah.
Similar kind of on this theme aswell, like I always love asking

(27:34):
people about where they're from and how where their from's
impacted them as great people because I don't know, I do think
I tend to always put a big part.So where are you both from and
how has that impacted your careers and stuff?
And Taylor, you can go first this time.
Yeah. So like I was saying, yeah, it's
hard to identify actually. So I'm from Hemel Hempstead in

(27:54):
Hertfordshire and there's not, Imean, there's like the Old Town
Hall where we're performing flatactually, and that's a great
venue. There's Watford Palace.
So there are like some theatres and things around there, but
there's not masses, there's not loads going on.
In terms of the arts. I like I said, I did am DRAM

(28:18):
when I was younger and some clubs, you know, dance clubs and
singing clubs and all that kind of stuff than most children do
probably. But yeah, there's not, there's
not loads in the area. So I don't know if being from
Hemel really inspired me. And even the school I went to,
the secondary school wasn't great for drama or music or

(28:39):
anything like that. So it is a bit of a, it is a bit
of a mystery where, where that came from.
My, my parents would take me to shows.
I didn't go all the time, but wewould go maybe a couple of times
a year, like to the West End to see a big show or see panto at
Christmas, things like that. And I guess I, I guess maybe it
was just that it's just being inspired by that and the things

(28:59):
that I did see. Yeah.
And maybe like subconsciously now I have this drive for like
more local stuff and accessible stuff from that maybe.
Not sure. I have to.
I'll let James answer this question.
I want to talk about that local stuff because I think it's quite
important. I listen to you guys on the

(29:20):
radio show talking about accessibility and stuff and
fear, and I think it's kind of interesting and important topic.
But James, tell us first about, you know, where you're from and
then we can sort of touch on that.
Yeah, I'm from Birmingham. I'm from the kind of heart of
Birmingham and I've always been from this part.
I live in an area called Small Heath which is now very I think
is a lot more well known now, which is.

(29:42):
Because people, yes, I I know what?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's sat there, whereas before
we could find us, people probably wouldn't know it very
well except for the fact that maybe the Birmingham City
Football Ground is here. But it's an studio lock, which
is this new Steven Knight is kind of on our doorstep now.
So again, it's as time goes by, like more things are coming into
the area, but for a very short period of time, Birmingham,

(30:05):
considering it is the second city, doesn't have as many
resources as you would think it would.
And just recently, unfortunately, I think the
council went bankrupt and I think a lot of the art funding
went. So it's like we're still very
much in a place where it's limited, but you know, people
are still around and people are still trying to make the work
happen. But I think in terms of
influence of the area, I think it's a very working class

(30:25):
background. And I think what's always been
great about that is just kind ofbearing witnesses to the lives,
the quiet lives that go on around you.
And Small Heath at one point waskind of the place where all the
Irish people came and lived, which is kind of how my family
got here. And then generationally, as
we've grown up, obviously then there was an influx of like a
large Muslim community and then there's a smiling community.

(30:47):
And then you've kind of got thishotbed of everyone kind of
living together in a very, you know, multi ethnic society and
cultural society. Sorry.
And it just allows you to bear witness to like different lives
and different stories. And when you go to school, then
you're with people that come from a completely different
background and different faiths and beliefs.
And I think that just opens you up to a world of possibility.

(31:09):
And, and again, just kind of in a creative sense, you get to see
beyond what your own household is and you get to find out
what's going on in other people's lives.
And that could be quite inspiring and influential.
I was really interesting again, like I think it's it's
interesting how different where everyone, you know, is from as

(31:32):
well. And like, I think a lot of
people bring their own unique background into the arts and I
think you can always tell in people's work as well a little
bit of that. I know it's interesting.
But yeah, Small Heath obviously get got its own sort of weird,
you know, sense of identity. It's interesting that show can
do that for an area. I think that's why it's so
important to the areas get represented, get represented on
screen or in art, because it canhave such an impact, even though

(31:57):
there's clearly still, you know,work to be done.
And obviously I'm not saying picky blinders the most
representational show in the world either, but it's it's good
for an area very. Specific type of them, yeah,
it's done its job. Like, you know, people now aware
of the area and they know of it and and it's always called just
feel like you're like, oh, people bind us and you're like
yeah, that's kind of like Our Calling card now.

(32:18):
But I think that's the point. I think as if you are Taylor was
just saying about Hemel. And the same with me.
It's like if you kind of, you know, write about where you're
from and you're, you know, true and authentic to the place, then
kind of creates and it can live on in art somehow and then
people are aware of it. So the same with Peak Blinders
and small heat. It's like now people in America,

(32:40):
which they probably never would have before.
Yeah, for sure. Hello, it's Jamie here.
I hope you're enjoying this week's episode.
It's just a quick one for me to say that if you're listening to
the podcast on Apple, Spotify orwhatever platform you engage
with our show on, be sure to give us a follow or a subscribe
as it goes a long way into helping us grow and find new
listeners, as well as helping you keep up with all the latest

(33:03):
episodes and everything that's happening and just get a real
job. You can also support us by
subscribing to our patron page for the price of a cup of coffee
per month. All the money we make goes back
into the upkeep of the podcast. Thank you for so you continued
support and we hope you enjoy the rest of today's episode.
And let's talk about the local thing as well and the importance

(33:26):
of representation in theatre andlike taking theatre into places
that maybe traditionally wouldn't have had access to it.
Because obviously, yeah, I know you're in London right now, for
example, that there's loads of Theatre in London.
And I know London's a huge placeand there'll be communities in
London that don't have access toit.
But it's a sort of place where you probably could go to the
theater quite easily if you growup there.
Whereas when I grew up there wassome theater, but you know, it

(33:48):
wasn't like massively accessibleand you maybe could needed money
to go into the city and in access it.
And you know, if you're from a working class party like myself
or something, that might not always be a possibility because
you factor in like train fares and maybe dinner out and then
you go into this, there's like abig event.
Whereas like for a lot of people, they, you know, they
don't have that option. So, yeah, I mean, it's an

(34:08):
important thing, but but tell usabout that and how that's sort
of become quite an important aspect of this show and and your
company and stuff. We may start with you on this
one, James. Yeah, we, it was kind of, we
always spoke about it even just before we even started talking
about doing the play. And when we were creating the
play is the fact that, you know,if you are in London, it's great

(34:29):
and you get access to all these things.
But if you're not and you are from somewhere else, like for
me, for Birmingham, like again, like it's not that far, but
still the price of a ticket trained to get alone is quite
pricey. Then you have to take into
consideration the price of the ticket of the theatre.
And then there's like food. And so before you know, it, like
a simple day out can rack up. And, but then even within the

(34:51):
city of Birmingham growing up, Ican remember like the places
like the Hippodrome and the Rep,which would sometimes cater to
the, you know, the, the Christmas pantos or, you know,
like the big musicals that get tore out of London.
But in terms of like new writing, in terms of like new
work, like it was very rare thatthere was ever anything like
that. And there are like few places

(35:11):
now like the old joint stock is one of the ones that we're going
to and thank God for places likethat, that have these blacks,
you know, box spaces of pubs andtheir great venues to host new
work. But still they're very few and
far between. And so one of the major things
that we wanted to do when we were like organising the tour
was make sure that we go to these kind of like smaller

(35:35):
cities outside of London, you know, places up north just to
kind of give local communities the opportunity to see new
writing that they might not necessarily get the chance to
see as they go to London or a big city like Manchester or, or
even Newcastle, I suppose. I know like I went to, I studied

(35:56):
in Newcastle and I know they're thriving when it comes to the
arts. But again, they've had to do
that because they're so far awayfrom London.
But that's what I love a lot about people that, you know,
just do it for themselves and doit for their own communities.
And we kind of wanted to be a part of that when we did this
tour. Yeah.
And I think kind of linking to what you were saying, Jamie,

(36:18):
it's like my family and friends and lots of people that I know
from Hemel and I'm sure from other places, when they think of
going to the theatre, they thinkof like West End because that's
all they know that they don't know about fringe theatres.
They don't know about theatres above pubs.
They don't know about scratch nights or new writing events
that, that, that there's, they just have no knowledge of it at

(36:39):
all that it even happens. So when I've had friends and
then they come to a friend show or whatever, they're like, oh,
this is this is different. So it's just kind of trying to
bring that to smaller communities as well because it
it's, it can actually be so easily done.
Like there's community halls andvenues where, OK, yeah, it's not

(36:59):
a theatre. You're not going to get like the
lighting and the sound and all that.
But if you're like doing a scratch and art, experimenting
with new writing, then that you've got a hall there.
You've got a space where people can can come and watch that.
And they might not like you say,have the funds to go into London
to, to do that and maybe especially for a scratch and
things like that. And then that might inspire

(37:20):
them. And it also helps the creatives.
And so, yeah, just trying to getlike smaller communities kind of
finding their their people or whatever and giving those spaces
because I think it is doable. It's just we just don't do it
enough. Is that kind of part of the

(37:41):
mission of your company as well?Is that something that is quite
important to the, you know, values?
And I know you've done this playbut like I'm assuming you'll
have other ambitions and plans in the future and stuff as well
after this. Yeah, I don't think we've ever
really like, it's interesting because it's something that I
don't think we ever sat down andreally, really discussed.
I just think inherently, inherently like that was just

(38:02):
always a part of our being in our fireback because that's
obviously where we're both from.So therefore that's what we
wanted to give back. But we have obviously
subsequently spoken about it andobviously when we were kind of
coming up with our mission for the tour and what it was about
and what we wanted to do and youknow, the things that we wanted
to learn along the way, it was there.

(38:22):
But I think I think it was just naturally there anyway.
And I don't think it we were like, oh, that's what we have to
do. It's like, well, we just knew
naturally that that is what we were going to do.
Yeah, because of our backgroundsand where we're we're from, I
guess. And I think it also really
helped we did a Watford community tour of fluff when we
were kind of developing it and with Watford Council, which was

(38:44):
great. And it's also like just seeing
people's reactions and how grateful they are.
And we just feel like these are kind of, but like your everyday
people rather than like when yougo to the theatre and it's quite
often like the same dynamic of people because not everyone can
access it and stuff like that. But when we did the community

(39:05):
tour, it was just like so many just, I don't know, everyday
people just felt so representative of of people.
And then we're so grateful for it.
And I guess that, yeah, really helped in this drive of yeah,
when we go forward because we're, we're working on another
play at the minute as well. And I definitely want to try and
put that in some community hallsand, and, you know, local venues

(39:29):
and get some feedback from localpeople and do the same things
again. I definitely would like to do
that with it, yeah. No, it's really interesting.
I think it's so important to engage locally.
And again, that's where like a lot of change can happen.
Not the change can happen on a bigger scale, but I think it is
those like smaller projects sometimes that can really feel

(39:51):
connected to people and stuff. And just as as well to ask you
about the company and about TP and stuff and how that's like
evolved. Like do what?
How did you decide to start thatand and what are your sort of
ambitions for it beyond fluff? Well, we started because as we
were creating the showroom, we wanted to take it out to
audiences. We were looking for funding.
And as Taylor just pre mentioned, we started working

(40:12):
with Watford Council to do a bitof community tour and then we
got a little bit of funding there.
And the team there is just like so fantastic.
And I don't think we would have been able to do a lot of the
things that we did if we hadn't had the guidance from them.
And I think the first thing theysaid was like, oh, you know,
like with the money aspect, likeyou could create like a
community interest project and that could be like your company.

(40:33):
And that'd be like a really great, great way for you to move
forward and we can help you set that up.
So we were like, great, let's dothat.
So obviously then we create the name And, you know, we got that
up on its feet. And then slowly but surely, and
we were creating the show and wewere taking it out there.
And then we were talking about the origins of the production
and then people realizing that that was a possibility.
And then as realizing how lucky we were with that and then how

(40:55):
we could kind of spread the wordon it to other people, obviously
massively helps. And then obviously we've started
with theatre and obviously it became a theatre thing.
But like everyone, you have ambitions outside of that.
And I think, you know, just recently we've been talking
about television would be a great opportunity, but we were
looking at audio drama and realising how kind of audio

(41:15):
drama is at the moment. Like we've just been just
talking about it earlier on. Everyone kind of walks around
with the headphones in. Now when they go on, they're
like trying to get their 10K steps, but you know, you've got
such a wealth technology that can help you in terms of
soundscape that can create something so lush and big.
And you know, it's it's one stepup from I suppose.

(41:35):
And it's just, you know, you've got, if you've got less of a
budget and you can't really do theatre or you can't really do,
you know, like a film of some kind, then audio drama seems to
be like a great in point. And it's accessible, again, just
adding to that for like people that like we had this amazing

(41:56):
training to try and make our show accessible for visually
impaired. And we did touch towards and
things like that. But when we were when we were
talking with people giving us the training, they were telling
us about how you like all the marketing with social media and
stuff. It actually isn't very
accessible for everyone. But things that are audio are.
So yeah, just things that we didn't think about to make the

(42:18):
show more accessible for everyone or our future shows as
well. Because everything is nowadays
visual and we see everything. Can we kind of take everything
in through our eyes? And you get from, you know,
Reels and you get it from Instagram posts or you get it
from posters. And you know, you until we had
this training most recently we've got, oh, you know, it is
kind of limiting. Like a large part of an audience

(42:42):
that would be interested in yourshow or interested in what you
have to, you know, your product and they actually don't have
access to it because you haven'tactually thought about them as a
demographic. And I think it kind of really
made us think about how we will use that moving forward.
Yeah, for. Sure.

(43:02):
And I think we probably have to be more creative because
unfortunately fringe theater andstuff without budgets and
without as much money, it's really hard to make that access.
But I love the Edinburgh French,the bit some time up in Scotland
and stuff, but that's so unaccessible as a as a festival
because you're in all these bizarre venues were not very
good wheelchair access. Most performers couldn't afford

(43:23):
like someone to come and sign, for example, for deaf or people
hearing impairments like or you know, visual.
It's just so hard when you're like a scratch artist
particularly or like a a new foryour company to, to even budget
that in. And I think you do.
I'm not saying people shouldn't do that.
I just think you have to maybe work a bit harder or think a bit
more outside the box. So it's good to, you know, have

(43:44):
these conversations around it still.
And unfortunately it's a productof because especially at the
moment, cost of living, like thearts are just so squeezed and
it's even hard to have a sustainable career, let alone
put on a tour without all these extra things as well.
It just makes them more tricky for us to to have that
accessibility. But it still, you know, doesn't
make it any less important. But I think keep pressure on new

(44:05):
artists or up and coming artists.
To. Because I think we're all
socially conscious of how much we want to do better and be
better and provide more. But sometimes the resources are
just not there for you when you first start out as a company or
as an artist. And I think that's where like
this kind of pay it forward thing happens.
Like if we're ever in a financial situation in like 10

(44:28):
years time where we might have some sort of resources and we
could be like, OK, well, let's try and do some mentoring or
let's try and look into like extra funding specifically for
those things. Like, can we get something that,
you know, shows the script like the like subtitles on stage?
Can we get some sort of fun thatgets people in to do, you know,
BSL or is there a way in which we can help the venue provide

(44:51):
more of a an access free, you know, like wheelchair free
access? But again, sometimes when you
first start out, you can sometimes get blindsided by the
other hardship of putting on theshow and then the excitement of
putting it on. And so when you are doing
something like Fringe or Ed Fringe, I can imagine like
venues are so hard to come by and to grab a venue that you

(45:12):
will just venue and go with it. And I suppose the thought of
maybe wheelchair access might beat the back of your mind.
But then you think, oh, if I could have the funding or if
there was some sort of resourcesout there that could help me, I
think everyone will take it. I just think, is it out there
and where is it? And you know, how can we help
people to be more aware of that when they're creating their

(45:33):
shows? Not completely, completely, I
mean, that's a really good way of thinking about it.
And again, you can only we can only do what you can, you can as
well. But I think it's yeah, it's so
vital and also to hold keep the ladders behind you as well as
you if you starting to progress,like making sure that you, you
know, giving back to people in the maybe the way that they
helped you coming up. I think something, I think it's

(45:54):
a maybe it's just unfortunately in this industry is very
competitive. Sometimes I don't really like
being competitive. I always think there's enough
success to go around. It's about I think if you work
with other people it is a collaborative industry but
unfortunately there's that. I think you maybe get taught
we're in quite an individual society so it's all you know.
It can be hard to not to be selffocused sometimes, but I think

(46:15):
trying to not think about it as a competition is a massive help
as well. Yeah.
But I think it's things get soldas things that you're selling a
product, aren't you? And I think when you're selling
a product, it's almost like takeours, not theirs.
But it's like, well, no, if we make it affordable and you can
have ours and theirs. And yeah, completely.

(46:35):
And I also think, like, as you just said, Jamie, just kind of
reiterate it. It's so weird because everything
about the industry is collaborative.
You can't do things on your own.You can't create a show on your
own. But then there is this
competitive nature or like it just actually doesn't make sense
when you're trying to create work to be that way.
And James and I are so not like that.

(46:57):
Are we like, you know, we are sointo collaboration.
And it's not about who's better or what, you know, you know, any
of that stuff. And I think that's maybe another
reason that we we work well together because we have the
same modes and beliefs. And yeah, I think things like
that, but not everybody. It does.

(47:19):
But at the end of the day, I just feel like it just come,
it's it's not going to help you.So it doesn't really make sense.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Sorry, James, you go. Sorry to interrupt again.
It's right. I was just going to say like
when in terms of collaboration and I think that, you know, with
everything that you ever do, I think you know, there's more to
be learned when you just stop and listen.

(47:41):
And I think when it comes to, you know, collaboration in the
arts, that's fine. But I just think in the wide
world as well, I think so many people try and we, I know we
were just talking over each other because there was a delay.
But when people talk over each other and they try and be the
loudest in the room or they try and make themselves look the
best and it's like, OK, well, that's no one really aspires for

(48:01):
that. No one really like looks upon
ego as, you know, like a nice. I think by listening just to
other people and their ideas andyou can learn so much more from
that. Completely, completely.
And I was going to say as well, I think I reframe, I try and say
to people and again, like, I think I, I just do this
instinctively, but I think if somebody's making great work,

(48:22):
it's I don't want to see them asa competition.
It's like, what can I learn fromthem?
What are they doing that maybe Icould do better or something.
It's like a good thing to think.Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, definitely. I think Taylor's let's Taylor in
this as well when she goes. I think, you know, I try to do
this, but again, geographically,sometimes it's quite hard, but

(48:44):
it's not the Zoom. But you know, Ada I know has
done this a lot where, you know,we'll see a show or, you know,
she's worked with someone else or something and then she'll
reach out to them. And I've said I want to speak
for you, Taylor, but I know you've reached out and then
you've gone for coffees with people and there's nothing
competitive about it. It's just a willingness to just
listen to what they have to say and what advice they have.

(49:04):
Yeah, yeah. And like, and like you said,
Jamie, it's just like, I love your work.
Your work inspires me. I want, I want my work to be as
good as your work. And it's not like I want my work
to be good and no one to see your good work.
It's not that. It's like your work makes mine
better because it's so good or whatever.
And yeah. And then connecting with those

(49:25):
people and it's just like, it's just something I don't think.
Again, I don't want to speak foryou, James, but I don't think we
really understand that mentalityof seeing it any other way.
Yeah, that's interesting. What I like about the podcast
Medium, weirdly and and it's a nice thing, most people are
quite supportive in the space sothat you'll go on their show,

(49:47):
they'll come on your show. It's like very like, I don't
know, it's you don't see it as competition.
It's like I love seeing other podcasts.
I'm like, oh, that's class. Like you're doing really similar
thing. Like I love you know, and that's
cool. Like it helps the overall
product of like the of the medium and for sure, and I know
we're we're at 50 minutes. So I want to talk, let's quickly
talk about the tour again. Like there'll be a link to it

(50:08):
underneath. So if you can click and you'll
see all the dates and stuff, Butdo you want to, I don't know off
the top of your heads, have you got any dates and places that
you would quickly just mention? Where can people find the
company and all this stuff? It's all linked below anyway,
so. Well, James, you know the, you
know the dates for your joint stock off the top of your head,
don't you? And I know how long we know our

(50:29):
roots. So the performance in Hemel is
on the 21st of February and thenI think from there we go to like
the Phoenix Arts Centre and thenSwindon and then Bristol.
We go to the Torch Theatre in Milford Haven, which they might
all be in the wrong order, but you know, is it the Swan Theatre

(50:51):
and. People can click anyway, you
know. Yeah, yeah, just.
Click, just click yeah. We have like on Instagram and we
have which is TP prods, which I tend to get tongue tied over
when I'm telling people, but it's TP pranks is usually our

(51:14):
handle for most social media andobviously every information we
have is on there. But like Taylor said, we get to
go back to Hemel Hempstead and then we've got Birmingham at the
old joint stock on the 10th and 11th of March.
And we go to Newcastle as well for and York as well.
But it's nice because there's somany places along the way that
for me anyway, that, you know, Birmingham is where I'm from.

(51:37):
And so it's nice to bring thingsback to your hometown.
And then I've studied in Newcastle and there's kind of
like these false moments and youknow, they've been over.
It's been, I studied over 10 years ago.
So it just shows that things aren't a race.
They're a a slight jug, not. Completely, completely.

(51:58):
That actually sort of ties me into an ex question for you both
as well. But like, what's the sort of
biggest lesson as you're, you know, talking about how it's a
jog there, James, but what's your what's the biggest lesson
you've made you learned in your career so far?
You want. You can go first if you like.
Well, I think the one thing again like I suppose, is you.
Well, I think I've always wantedto try and when I was younger, I

(52:19):
was always trying to like appealto other people and what they
were looking for and what they wanted a writer or what material
they wanted to put on and what they what interested them.
And I think you slowly start to learn that once you start
writing about things that interest you the most and the
things that make you excited, then the work comes a lot easily
by from the pen to the paper. But then I can sometimes get

(52:42):
really anxious around things. And I think one of the biggest
pieces of advice anyone ever said to me was just kind of like
fill the fear and then do it anyway way.
And I always kind of take that with me in terms of any kind of
write writing work that I might start or any networking event
we're going to go to. It's like, OK, this might be a
little bit like, you know, I might feel a bit anxious about
this or I might be scared to start a new project.

(53:03):
So I don't know how it's going to turn out.
Or I might be invited on a podcast and I don't really know
what's going to come out my mind.
But you know, just build a fee out, but then do it anyway
because you never know how it turns out and you know what
might happen because of it. No for sure.
What about you too? Thank you very much for a great
answer. I think, I mean, there's been

(53:25):
lots of lessons, it's hard to pin it down to one, but I think
the kind of most useful thing I've learned is and it's and
it's for life as well as, as well as within the industry, but
is to control the controllables,which my partner says to me all
the time. So it has to constantly,
constantly remind me, but it is,it's so true.

(53:47):
Like you can only control what you do and the work you do and
what you put into it. And in this industry, there's
just so much that's not in your control.
So you know, whether it's like we're talking about whether
whether you have the finances toto put on your show, whether you
win a competition for your play to be put on, whether you're
picked for a part, if you're an actor, you or even get the
audition. It's just not, it's not always

(54:08):
in your control. You might not look the right
way. You might not, you know, be in
the right place at the right time or that's not what they
want. You're not in control of that.
So I think it's just to focus onis kind of similar to James's
point, just focusing on your craft and what you can do and
what you love doing and and that's it.
And trying, trying not to let the rest of it get to you as

(54:29):
hard as that is, but trying having a bath in those moments.
No, I completely agree that it'sreally hard though.
I'm bad for sometimes I think he's trying to just let go of
things that you can. I like, I feel like, I like to
try and feel like I'm in controlof as much as I can in my life,
not just even a work and career,but like, you know, I want to

(54:51):
have like a bit of control over everything.
But you can't really. And I think it's sometimes just
like I need to let go of this and just see what happens.
And usually it's fine as well. Ironically, by doing that, you
normally actually end up things work out better anyway.
But yeah, it's tricky. No, 100%.
Someone once said to me before, and I think this is really nice
advice to have, is someone's like, if you worry about

(55:14):
something before it happens and then it happens, you end up
worrying twice. And I thought, OK, great, I'm
just going to worry once it happens and until then I'm not
going to care about it. Yeah, completely.
No, that's really true. Very bad for doing that.
But you know, well, it's all a process, isn't it?
Another question I want to ask as well is, is what's your

(55:36):
favorite thing about fluff? Like what's your favorite thing
about the play each? So, yeah, so as an actor is is
actually a bit of a dream as an actor because it goes on such a

(55:56):
journey, I get to play lots of different characters.
So Fluff kind of reenacts the people in her life as she
remembers them. So there's a lots of different
characters that I get to play aswell as Fluff who is such an
interesting and complex and layered and I think truthful,
flawed, yes, but but truthful person.

(56:17):
So I think it's again, hard to pinpoint one thing, but it's
just, yeah, having having the opportunity to play that and
there's quite an emotional roller coaster of journey and
ages. Like she, she flips through
different ages and different memories and things like that.
And it's, it's challenging, but,but I think that's what I love

(56:40):
about it is it's so full. It's just so there's so much.
It's not one thing. It's not one dynamensional in
any way. It's it's really full.
And I think for me, I think the character of Fluff is obviously
really complex and she is reallynuanced.
And, you know, we kind of get tosee her at different parts
during her life and then the engagements that she has with
other people. But I do think the one thing

(57:01):
that is my favorite about the show and I think, you know, we
have worked really hard with it is to make sure that the show
just have real heart to it. And again, not to like try and
give too much away, but there isone specific moment that happens
in the play where Fluff comes together in a moment with her
father. And, you know, the director made
this really great choice to use a prop.

(57:22):
But what's great about this moment and why it always sticks
with me every time we show it toa new audience, it's like it
seems to be the moment where everyone just kind of like is
elevated slightly and they're really drawn into like the
emotional pull of this scene. And I think it's because this
simple thing that the director did creates a universal feel
that anyone can put somebody that they think of into the

(57:42):
position of clubs farther. And I think they have like this
kind of, you know, overwhelming experience with it.
And it's so fulfilling. It's so satisfying to know that
that thing is coming up. And I know that the reaction
people are going to have to it because people always have the
same reaction. And when people come out, it's
that moment that people always speak to us about.
And for that, that then becomes almost favorite moment because

(58:04):
I'm looking forward to it happening and I'm looking
forward to hearing people's response to that moment.
And it's not always like the same response, like some people
can have a different one, but it's always the moment that
people always will speak to us about, I think.
No, that's last class. It's always nice when you feel
like your work's connected with an audience as well.
And, and sometimes that's interesting because it's

(58:26):
something you don't expect as well.
It's nice that it's like a similar moment, but it's
probably been an incident when somebody's come up and said
something, you're like, we didn't even mean that.
That's just a total. It's.
A nice. A nice feeling, but you pretend
that you meant it, yeah. It's intentional. 100%.
That's exactly what we intended.That's.

(58:47):
Why I always find things that like when you did English at
school and you do an analysis ofa book and and then you're like
thinking like, did they actuallymean this?
Like, I don't know, the amount of times they're giving notes to
a writer and I'm like, this is great.
I leave and they're like, oh, I just thought I'd just Chuck that
in there. Just I couldn't think of what to

(59:07):
say. But I'm glad you've taken this
meaning away from it. I'm like, yeah, great.
Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant.
Well, first I've got one more question, people, But just
firstly before I just want to say thank you very much for your
time today. It's been lovely to have you
both on the show. Nice to see the old Victoria get
a bit representation there. And there's a few people walk in
the background. They're going to get become
famous on YouTube or whatever else.

(59:30):
Yeah, on my way out. Yeah, Thank you the old Victoria
for for providing it. But just we like to sort of
close the podcast. You'd share quite a lot of great
wisdom and advice for it, but like closing advice for anyone
that maybe wants the work and the arts, but particularly in
the area that you're in or you feel like sort of your role
represents. So maybe start with you Taylor,
on this one. Yeah, it's going to go back to

(59:52):
that conversation area about collaboration and working with
people, being nice to people, which is such a weird piece of
advice to give, isn't it? Because you'd think that would
be a given. But yeah, be nice to people and
be interested in their work and collaborate where you can.
And I also think a lot of it's about persistence and resilience

(01:00:14):
and work ethic, especially, you know, we've we've talked again
about working class backgrounds and things like that.
So there are more barriers for for different people, but just
keep going and. Things will happen eventually.
It takes time as well. That's that's a bit of advice.
It takes time. Yeah, and I think on the back of

(01:00:34):
that as well, like time is a bigthing.
I think we put so much pressure on ourselves, especially when
we're younger, thinking that we have to achieve so much by a
certain age. And obviously that, you know,
some people are really lucky andthings happen for them a lot
quicker than they do for other people.
But you know, just because you might start off doing something
at 161718 doesn't mean that you know, by the time you're 5 or 40

(01:00:56):
that it won't happen. I think it's like I said
earlier, it's like, it's not always about like a race to the
finish line. It's about, you know, the, the
journey along the way. And it's the people that you
meet and the collaborations thatyou make.
And and I think one thing that we what a great gift that comes
with getting older is you kind of start to understand yourself
a little bit more and you start to get a certain wisdom and your

(01:01:19):
toolkit changes and you know thethings that happen to you in
life. So I think your work changes as
you get older. And I think that's why kind of
finding your singular voice and what that is, whether that's as
an actor, as a director, as a producer, or you know, what
things interest you or what, youknow, material you want to
create. I think as you get older, you
start to discover that more and I think you're able to make more

(01:01:41):
of a razor sharp focus on thingsthat you want to leave in the
world. And I think if you can start
working on that as soon as possible, then great.
And I think what it comes down to is just being authentic to
yourself and really leaning intothe things that you love and
find interesting and. I think if you do that, the art
will be better as well and you'll enjoy it more because a

(01:02:02):
lot of the a lot of this is justhard work and, and, and going
through the quite boring processes a lot.
So and if you don't enjoy it, then it's going to be a lot
harder. So.
Yeah, don't do it if you don't enjoy it.
Yeah, definitely. I know.
It's crazy enough when you do enjoy it at times, isn't it?
So you know, especially you know, and.
I mean, if you're lucky enough to go on tour and you have to do

(01:02:25):
it over and over and over and over and over again, but you
want to make sure you really love it.
Yeah, don't complain, James. Completely.
Completely. Well, listen, thank you very
much, both of you. I hope the tour goes brilliant.
Is there's so much more I could ask you both.
We might have to do like a we revisit later on when the tour

(01:02:47):
is all finished and maybe see what you guys are doing next and
stuff. But good luck with fluff and the
tour. And as I say, it links below in
the show notes. When this goes out, you'll be on
tour, probably very tired. You'll be looking for a bath.
I write and tell her that, Yeah,but wish you all the best with
it. And yeah, thank you very much
for sharing your wisdom and for your time today.

(01:03:07):
Appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Thanks so much for.

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Ep. 164 - ‘Being a Creative in 2025’ with James Piercy and Tayla Kenyon

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 164 - ‘Being a Creative in 2025’ with James Piercy and Tayla Kenyon