Ep. 169 - Making Music in 2025: ‘waverley.’ on Graft, Growth & Getting Heard - Just Get A Real Job

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hello there and welcome to another episode of Just Get a
Real Job with your host, me, Jamie McKinley.
And thank you as always for tuning in to the show.
We have another brilliant episode in story for this week
as we are joined by a really exciting up and coming Scottish
band originally from Edinburgh called Waverly, who they're sort
of like blend almost folk and indie music.

(00:27):
I feel like that doesn't do themjustice though, that they're
really good. They got brilliant new EP out
called Flail and they're actually on the same record
label as Friends of the podcast Dictator, who we've of course
had on this show many times, anda shout out to Black Hole
Records as well. Hopefully finally get them on
the podcast very soon. But it was brilliant to be
joined by Waverly. There are five piece bands and
we had three of their members, Donnie, Ewan and Leo, on this

(00:51):
week's episode, so it was lovelyto chat to the three of them.
Really interesting to get an idea of the reality of being in
a band in 2025 and some of the challenges that are faced racing
up and coming musicians and someof the fun stuff.
You know, I always love on this show talking to musicians about
bands they like and the sort of music that they make.
And yeah, we've had lots of brilliant musicians on the
podcast over the years, so it's always local bands on the

(01:14):
podcast. I'm a little bit choked with the
cold, so I'll keep this week's intro short and sweet.
But yeah, be sure to subscribe whenever you're listening.
Be sure to share the podcast. And if you can afford to spare
any spare pennies, we have a patron as well.
And all the money we make goes back into the upkeep of the
podcast. But thank you for listening as
as always, and I hope you enjoy this week's episode with the
brilliant Waverly. Just get a real.

(01:51):
Hello lads, how's it going? I'm thrilled to welcome Waverly
onto the show tonight. Just want to introduce yourself
1 by 1 as well because we don't normally have this many people
on the show remotely. So sure, we're going to be a bit
of talking over each other, but I'm Donnie, do you want to go
first mate? And then we'll work around.
I'll work around in a clockwise direction according to my
camera. Sure.

(02:12):
So I'm Donnie. I play the guitar and sing a bit
in Waverly and sometimes get to be on the keys every so often.
I want to help write some of thesongs I suppose.
Yeah, my name is Ewan Malik. I I also play the guitar, do a
bit of the songwriting. Usually I'm an acoustic guitar,

(02:36):
so that's kind of what I'd stickto most of the time.
You're desperate to be offered. Best Leo do I jump on next?
But you could Last but not least.
I'm Leo. I also play the guitar and
occasionally back orders that the rest of the band when I feel

(02:57):
things are not going the way I feel.
And there's, there's five of youin the band, isn't there?
And the three of you are here tonight, but the band consists
of five members in it. We've got Jake Cunningham on the
bass and Rory on the drums. So yeah, they're, they're not
here. They're they're, they're busy

(03:18):
boys, to be fair. But they're, yeah, normally
there's 55 headed dog. Nice one.
Well, it's always good to have you know, bands on the podcast.
I love music and it's great whenyou see bands like yourself
coming out in Scotland. Obviously you guys are on the
same record label and shout withthe Black Collar as well, who
you know, work with our friends Dick there, who we've done on
the podcast quite a few times and a lot of our listeners will

(03:39):
be familiar with. But you guys have got a new EP
coming out very shortly. So obviously plug that tonight.
But I always want to talk to youabout sort of evolution of your
band, what it's like to be in a band at the moment, because
music I know a lot of people listening will know it's it's
like a lot of the crave industries at the moment when I
cost living crisis. It's really hard if you don't
have that funding and money behind you to sort of make it
happen. And I'm sure you sort of have to
really graft hard. So maybe a good place to start

(04:02):
tonight is just to ask the threeof you like, what's what's it
kind of like to be in a band in 2025 in an independent band like
yourself? Do you want to maybe go first
this Damian? Sure.
I think the honest answer is quite difficult.
We're we're not really in it to make money at the moment.
I don't think we ever started the band with that as a kind of

(04:23):
ambition. But it's also kind of a quite
evolving landscape kind of musicmaking music, especially now it
feels like, you know, it's, it'sboth so accessible and easy to
get your music out there, but also so hard to get lost amongst
the noise of other stuff and other people.

(04:46):
But we, yeah, we do largely justhave a lot of fun.
I think that's the big thing. And just kind of continue doing
our own thing. That's kind of always been our,
our goal is to kind of try and focus on what we're doing and
continue to improve. And don't know if the other guys
have. Yeah.
I was going to jump on that. It's just a, it's just a big

(05:07):
sort of, it's a big cost, but it's just our, our passion.
So we're like, you know, like some people go out cycling or,
you know, buy nice groceries or even buy nice clothes.
We get trains to Glasgow and go into dingy rehearsals and stuff
like that. So that's sort of our passion
and what we want to do. So we, yeah, we just, we just
try and do it, you know, pick upsome money along the way that'll

(05:29):
fund some recordings that'll andhelp us play a show somewhere
different. It'll fund a wee trip to London
to go play a show there. Ultimately, it's just, it's
difficult, but it's in 2025. It feels like we just, if we
aren't enough to sustain it somewhat, then then you're being
all right. You're doing all right.
And I mean Leo's probably the best to ask because Leo is Leo

(05:50):
is a musician full time. Tell us more about you.
Yeah, Yeah. I think Tony's nail hit the nail
on the head there with just, it seems like the most achievable
goal is to just established, establish a, a sustainable

(06:13):
approach towards just keeping the band going and keeping shows
coming and keeping the things that we like doing happening.
So I mean, I think I want to saythat the past 2 EPS we've fully
funded ourselves through shows and selling merch and everything
like that. We've actually not done much in

(06:34):
the way of funding. So to it, it really just breaks
even at the end of the day. And that's all we're going for
right now. And it seems to be working out.
It seems to be getting a little more like not scraping the
pennies out of our pockets to, to make that happen the longer
we do it. So it's, it's a it's a pleasure

(06:56):
to get to experienced that. Are these lads for poverty?
Oh, it's always. The coats behind you in your
little cupboard. Or add them to your sentiment
there, don't they? I think.
I know it's. Very, I would say it's a very
spacious studio apartment. Got my cooker over there, got to

(07:19):
take we can get and these aren'teven my coats.
But you stole them. And and Leo and Leo just expand
as well because I know you're saying you're a full time
musician outside of the band andstuff like what is your sort of
sense check of, of where the music industry is AT and like
where it is as a sort of career for people sustainably?

(07:43):
I think, I think if I can reflect on my own position and
how I operate within that, it's not an industry where you can
well, but below a certain level,it's not an industry now that
you can just do the one thing and sustain yourself that way.

(08:04):
I think you have to become a bitof a polymath and try and do as
many things that are within yourskill set as possible and go
really far reaching with that. I think that's more in a
freelance sense, but yeah, it's,it's, it's hard to say.

(08:24):
I mean, the job varies and people approach it differently,
but I think you need to be willing to just drive yourself
so much harder and more consistently to make something
that works. There's no room for just kind of

(08:46):
letting things lie. And I know I'm guilty of
dropping it off sometimes with various other band members who
shall remain nameless. Maybe you and Donnie.
But. But making it.
Yeah. But making it all work is a it's
a consistent effort. And it's like it's running
things almost like business, which seems, it's tough to say

(09:12):
when you're considering art in that way, but you've got to have
a bit of a mindset about it to make it grow if you want to, if
you want it to go that way. There's so much.
Rest of us, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of admin.
Yeah. No, there is a lot of admin in
whatever part of the creative industry.
Someone that's come up a lot recently, podcast of this debate

(09:33):
between like a lot of creatives are resistant to being business
minded. And I spoke to a few people
recently who have had different opinions on it.
Some of them are like let the creatives be creative, let the
business people be business people.
I think it depends on you, but Ithink it does.
It is. Going to help.
If you do have a bit of a business mind, especially in a
band, or if you're doing something like what I'm doing
with a podcast where you need tomarket it and you know, you're

(09:54):
you're front facing. So you know, you kind of have to
be seen and stuff. So not for sure.
Before I sort of ask about the new EP and and sort of the
evolution of the band stuff, let's go back to the start.
So you guys all know each other.You can't have all grew up
together, right? And that's where this bands sort
of came from. Is that is that correct?
Yeah. Me and Ewan here went to primary

(10:15):
school together and then me, Leo, Jake and Rory all met a
council run music project in Edinburgh called Edinburgh
Schools Rock Ensemble, which wascooler than it sounds.
And they've, they've, well, they've been responsible for
some massive bands coming out ofEdinburgh, like bands that we

(10:37):
love have come through it and it's, that's how we all met and
we all introduced. So we, yeah, we've known
interest since, yeah, high school growing up together, been
to the, the older parties, 15 year old, 16 year old parties
when we were 16 as well as, and all that, you know, growing up,
yeah, very likely drinking, you know, whatever in the park.

(11:00):
And so yeah, we've, we've all been close, close mates for,
well, some of us over 10 years now, then 15 years.
In this class, and Edinburgh's played a big role in the band as
well. Like I love asking people about
where they're from, how that's impact and stuff.
So the name itself I'm, you know, I'm going to put two and

(11:21):
two together and say that that probably played a factor, right?
The the city of Edinburgh, I mean, Waverly, etcetera.
Yeah, we were. I don't want to break the the
the 3rd wall, but you said over a question before.
So we were talking about this one before we jumped on and it's

(11:41):
a difficult one to think about Edinburgh specifically.
I think it's quite easy to jump to an answer about Scotland or
about kind of influences of bands that we that we like.
But when you try and think specifically about Scotland, I
think it's just that it was a great place to grow up, I think.
And it, you know, it harboured, it was a good place to kind of

(12:08):
be creative and, and do some of these things and, and go to
small venues. And it's just an inspiring city
as well. It's a beautiful city.
And yeah, there's, there's definitely bands from Edinburgh
that we look up to and are influenced by.

(12:29):
I'm kind of waffling now if anyone's got anything they want
to jump in about Edinburgh. That's a good question.
Go on Leo, help him out. Yeah.
I think with speaking from, I think my own experience and we

(12:49):
all kind of fell into the same things, I imagine.
But the sort of route that we weall took through music, we got
to kind of get in, get out of itat quite a young age.
I mean, going to gigs was reallyquite accessible.
Going to Sneaky's, they're goingto, I think the Liquid Rooms is

(13:10):
one of my first gigs in Edinburgh and just seeing bands
and, and getting, getting to feel that sort of passion from
them. And then also just, I mean, it
didn't take long for us to be all gigging, I suppose.
But I think yeah, like playing, playing Edinburgh venues and

(13:31):
then just getting a a taste for it.
It's like you could do a tour and the cow Gate, the venues and
the cow gate and it was. It was all you needed.
The world was all on The Cave gate.
Nothing. More still is.

(13:51):
And did the name come from the station or am I just like being
facetious there like did that, is that where the name came from
or is there a bit more depth behind that?
I see you both troubling yourselves over this answer
because you're trying to think of the coolest way you can
present it, and I get to say that because I wasn't there at
the time. I let Donnie answer it.

(14:16):
Long story short, yeah, probablywas.
It was the train station. We were looking for a name on
the way to a gig, or was the daybefore a gig, I can't remember.
One of our first ones actually. And it was, I think it was the
Cow Gate. We might be playing for the
Fringe. And we were just needed a name,
but they were like, what do we put you down as?
And we're like driving like saw a road sign.

(14:37):
I think it was. We're like, oh, Waverly.
And then I was doing a Scottish literature course at the time at
uni and I was reading Waverly byWalter Scott or attempting to
read Waverly by Walter Scott. So I was like, oh, that fits in.
And you know, a couple of us went to uni in Glasgow, so we
were like, oh, Waverly Connects Edinburgh, Glasgow.
So it was brought us to and fromeach other.

(14:59):
So we had like a few reasons at the time that it felt felt
right. But in I suppose the Long story
short is this, it's the train station, which I like to bring
up the fun fact that it's the only train station in the world
named after a novel. So you know, it's better than
calling yourself that. It's better calling yourselves
Haymarket. So that's what I say.

(15:21):
Well, if there's any consolation, I like, I like the
name, I like the, I like we've, it's a station I use very often
myself, so you know what I mean.Lived in in for 9 years.
I travel back there often as well.
So you know, it's not how do youhow do they do?
Leo is a cool enough answer for you.
I'll pass, I think. Yeah.
Nice to get a book into about literature.

(15:42):
It's quite, you know, nice poeticness there.
Good. No, I, I it's also, you know, I
quite like a one name. One name for a band can work
sometimes. As well.
That was nice you. Try that really hard to do that,
don't they? Yeah, that was a reason you and
refused to be in a band that wasn't one word.
And you're like, we're not there.

(16:03):
We're not anything else. We can't be called this
something like one name. And we tried so hard.
We tried for years to get down to one name.
And then we just panicked from the day before a gig or two days
before a gig. As long as I had to be that
because you wanted it to like pop.
Yeah, I don't know why he was attracted me to one name.
I think at the time I was a big Fools fan and I like that as a

(16:23):
kind of stand alone word. Yeah, maybe I wouldn't be as
staunch on it now I do. Agree like the even we're
chatting about the marketing perspective like a one word name
is good. It's like you know the 13 floor
elevators. You know it's like I'd stick
that on a gig poster. It's a bit bit tough or what you

(16:44):
know, there's other bad. I feel your payment.
See the podcast names. Also.
Just get a real job. That is a fucking pain in the
ass to get on a poster and see getting a new font made for
that. Jesus Christ.
Because it's like 4. It's just a short word and
people get it wrong all the timeas well.
I was in a paper recently and they called it get a real job.
And I know it's not really too different, but it is, you know,

(17:05):
it's not this. Yeah, you get a lot of people
mistaken. You know, you're preaching to
the choir here. We've we've felt so many ways
we've well decided to make it uncapitalized with a full stop
at the end. The.
Combinations therein are extraordinary.

(17:26):
It's good to know when I put this episode out then that it's
Waverly with a little full stop and all lowercase.
Then it's. Good luck with that though
longer. Term.
Yeah. Don't get started on fonts
either. That's the marketing of
different fonts and we we probably spend more time on

(17:48):
fonts than we do on the the actual music making and.
It's not part of, isn't it? I want to ask as well about the
influence of the band because obviously your sounds changed a
little bit over the years and stuff.
And I don't know, I don't I don't want to like start saying
it reminds me of this and this and putting other bands on it.
But like, it's you know, it's quite funky.

(18:10):
And I I mean, this is a compliment as well, but it kind
of it reminded me when I was listening by some of the music
today for when I was researchingthis interview, like kind of got
a bit of a the sort of newer BonIver stuff was coming to mind.
You know, King Crusoe is that ashe say, isn't it King Crusoe?
I would say that that artist name is wrong there.
But you know, I was getting a bit of that and in a good way

(18:30):
and it with that sort of indie soulless as well.
So I mean, how would you guys describe your own music?
What do you what sound do you think it if somebody who's like
that classic question, what typeof music do you make?
Which I'm sure is annoying to beasked, but what type of music do
you make? Well, I'll, I'll jump in on
this, but. Probably I'm just sort of asking
these and I'm letting you decideamongst yourselves and I

(18:51):
appreciate you bearing with me on that.
I'm not used to having many people on the line.
Well, I love the sound of my ownvoice.
I'm always happy to hop in the yeah, those 2 Bonnie Ver and
King Crea so are two of our favorites.
Like we've both seen, we've all seen Bonnie Ver before live
multiple times. I traveled down to London when I
was younger. See Bonnie Ver on an overnight

(19:12):
bus King Crea so as well that from Scotland with love albums.
One of our theories. So that's it is when everyone
says we normally say like indie folk, like we know it's not all,
you know, singing about the ocean and, you know, classic
folk tropes, but it is we we do try and include, you know, as

(19:34):
much acoustic guitars. Like we're huge Bob Dylan fans
and stuff like that is the yeah,the blending of indie and folk
music. That was Bonnie Ver albums where
they bring in the electronic elements and same of those King
Creoso elements where like it can go any way.
Like it can go towards the more sort of, you know, drenched

(19:55):
sounding expansive albums like we love Sigur Ross and we wanted
epic and you know, you want it almost to be like a film score
in a way. And then but also the completely
intimate songs that that sort ofjust like break your heart with
like it's their honesty. So I suppose that's what we,

(20:16):
that's what we always try and discuss and we but because we've
got a range of. Influences and everyone's got
their little niches and little things.
We do something just get, you know, a song that comes out a
bit more poppy or a bit more even.
We've done a couple of punkier ones and, and not always stuck
with them, but, you know, we've tried them and we've done some

(20:37):
more electronic Y stuff that we've we, we Potter about with,
but I haven't felt confident enough to put out.
So it's just, it's all, it's allthere.
It's just we, we sort of pick asmuch as we can from different
places. And I think that, yeah, I'll let
someone jump in because I'm going to keep talking.
I think you've I think you've had quite a lot of them there.
I definitely take Bonnie Veron can cruise hit and I think the

(21:01):
the obvious 1 is probably a big influence for us was frightened
Rabbit and I think they told that line of like folk and Indy
and Americana really well. So as a kind of baseline, we
kind of sit around there. Some bands like Wilco as well,
or the National are all big influences for us and we kind of

(21:22):
share, yeah, big beats. Big Thief.
Oh, big Thief, big beats big Thief as well.
Yeah, I think I think one of thethings that we enjoy most about
the band is that that we we're not afraid to kind of try
different things as well and tryand kind of add more strings to

(21:45):
our goal. And we'll probably come on to
talk about the EP in a bit more detail.
But at the end of it, there's a piano ballad that Donnie does
has a harmonic on it, but it contrasts quite starkly with
some of the other songs in the EP.
So yeah, I think whatever excites us really, and that can

(22:07):
be quite broad. No, it's really nice sound,
honestly. And what I love with doing this
podcast is I'll listen to a bandfor like an interview and then
I'll get I'll get into them likeand I've downloaded the net on
our Nettle. Sorry, it's just called Nettle
itself, Isn't it's not that thenit's just one and the corner.
Is it the corner? Yeah, I was scared I'm going to

(22:28):
say them wrong, but yeah, they're both downloaded on
Spotify and been listening to them all day and not even not
even blowing smoke up your eyes.So generally very enjoying it a
lot. Gotten really into that sort of
folky sound recently actually. Bonnie Veron Yeah, it's really
good. And obviously Frightened Rabbit,
I kind of missed them when they were first around.
I don't know. So the tragic stuff that
happened with their front man and stuff like I knew about, but

(22:49):
I never, I never really listenedto Frightened Rabbits till
afterwards. I was a student when that all
happened. And it was only, well, that sort
of last couple of years that I got into them and, you know,
brilliant band. So you can definitely hear about
that and then and your music as well for sure, which is great.
It's a really nice sound. I think Scholar lends itself to
that quite well as as often, which is nice.
Really beautiful. Stuff.

(23:10):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's having a little bit
of resurgence, that kind of folkinfluence stuff.
It's cool to see, especially in Ireland.
I think it's doing very well. And bands like even Fontaine's
DC kind of lean into that a little bit.

(23:33):
Yeah, bands like Lancome, they're like I, I saw them at
Glastonbury last year and they blew me away.
It was they're they're easily one of the best bands I've ever
seen. Lisa O'Neill, I want to.
Lisa O'Neill's coming to the place and want to see her.
Oh. Yeah, Lisa O'Neill.
Fan, which is great. Yeah, that's all doing really

(23:54):
well at the moment. Seamus Fogarty is the number one
as well. That I've been like the one you
show me. Yeah, yeah.
Kind of experimental fork, that one.
It's kind of you need to be listened to on the right day.
I think it's kind of like you need to set some time aside for
that stuff. It's kind of.

(24:16):
Even in the bands that we like even know are on the same kind
of scene with, we always kind ofgravitate towards that sort of
folk here like more. It's not necessarily.
Yeah, it's not necessarily like presented as as folk stuff, but
there's definitely like a an undercurrent there with the

(24:37):
bands. I mean like Lacuna, Kilgur and
who else? Scotland, of course.
Yeah, yeah, I think they're like, I think we all, we've all
talked and stuff like that with these.
Theo Bleak's another one. But we've all we're all coming

(24:58):
from the same place, I think. I think that's, I know what
we've tried to, I don't know, muss ourselves in there with the
cool kids, but but I think they're all doing something so
good that we just feel so strongly that we love them.
I can honestly just sit and chatabout bands that you know the

(25:19):
sound of a like and bands are like and stuff with you for the
whole interview. And I was easy to get carried
away on it. But I also want to kind of ask,
like what who are the sort of, Imean, you just mentioned a few
there, though, but like, who arethe sort of local bands that are
on the scene with you that you maybe look up to as well?
Because it's kind of, you know, Scotland has a great music
scene. And it's been a privilege for me
getting to have quite a lot of Scottish hacks on this show.

(25:41):
But like, who are sort of the other bands in your peer group,
if that's a good way of saying it.
Don't tell that one, Donnie. Yeah, we've, we're quite, we
always want to play with fans that we, we're fans of.
We're, we, we're always trying to be active on the scene, even
if that is just, you know, playing with people or like, and

(26:04):
just letting people know that there were fans.
Like we've gone and put on our own shows and we've asked fans
that we like having never met them to, to support us or to
play with us or to join us on stage.
We've done gigs up in the Highlands where we've brought
our friends now like Kilgore andScotland Dance Band with us, the
play just because we are huge fans and we always just try.

(26:26):
And I saw a band called Lacuna the other day, just went out and
said hello and they're supporting us in in May, our EP
launch show. So yeah, Lacuna, Kilgore,
Scotland Dance Band Theo Bleak and then the other Black Hole
bands, Dictator, Midnight Ambulance.
Like we're about to go on tour with Day Sleeper Day.

(26:49):
Sleeper as well. Love Day Sleeper, Yeah.
Massive fans are decent but yeah.
And they used to be mounted out and they were from Edinburgh.
And it's just, yeah, there's, there's all these bands that
we're just huge fans of. We, we just try and play with
them whenever we can. Because we, I, I listen to local
bands in the same way that I listen to the brand new Bonnie
Vera that came out the other day.

(27:10):
It's like it doesn't really matter that this one's getting,
you know, more people listen to I, I take as much as I can from
the local bands or take even more these days from who what,
who else is doing what in the scene or like what they did
there? Who did they work with there?
Who did the strings there? And I, so I looked at that often

(27:30):
more than and then and then on top of that you get another
layer who are maybe not peers, but like who are just big in
Scotland that you look up to theTwilight, sad, Idlewild,
frightened rabbit. And then they're the ones that
you like, you strive for them and, and and they're probably
striving for Sonic Youth and such.
But you know what? We just look up one step at a
time, right. OK.
Lacuna, Theoblique, wherever. And then Ida Wild.

(27:54):
And then. So yeah, it's sort of just huge
fans of just the local scene. Just try and see as much as
possible. And yeah.
No, it's class. Thank you.
No, it's always. It's nice that I like to shine a
light on as many local artists and bands and stuff as well
because I mean, as we talked on at the start, it's so difficult

(28:14):
at the moment to breakthrough and to be seen into to make a
living enough to actually go outand make EPS and make albums and
stuff like that. I guess it's also a good thing
to ask you about like how have you found your growth as a band
and stuff like what what have you got any strategies for
anyone listening that you've you've used to sort of
breakthrough recently? Like, how did the relationship

(28:35):
with, you know, black Hole come along as well?
Did you go looking for a record label?
Did they find you? Like, it's kind of useful to ask
all this and you know if you want to go first.
Sure as well. Yeah.
So it's a it's a good question. I think what springs to mind
immediately is, is consistency or what, what we kind of
consider consistency, which is just don't go away, kind of keep

(28:59):
keep doing what the best you can.
And and the best that we can is kind of got gradually better as
we do it more and more. I think and and kind of touching
on what Donnie said in the in the last last question is that,
you know, involve more and more people, if you can, you know,
build a build a good kind of group of people around you that

(29:21):
you enjoy working with, enjoy working with you, that believe
in you. And I think that's largely what
happened with Black Hall was that Martin Christine had been
along to a few of our things previously and we weren't shy to
kind of go and say hi and thanksfor coming down and showing us
some support as a kind of small,unheard of band.

(29:43):
And I think, yeah, talking to people like that just makes such
a difference. So if you're willing to kind of
put yourself out there a bit more and speak to people and
surround yourself with other creative people that also don't
want to make money necessarily, then then you've got a good

(30:05):
chance of making like a good close knit that can help you
kind of move forward. And I definitely think Black
Hole have helped us do that. I think, you know, giving us the
opportunity to even make a vinyl.
This is our second one now, but to have something physical and I
don't know, it's kind of these little milestones, isn't it?

(30:25):
As a band, you kind of, you know, you play certain gigs and
then you do a certain support gig and then you maybe do a
vinyl and things just kind of the hit these little milestones
that kind of make you want to domore and more and more.
And like Donnie says, it's kind of like looking to those kind of
next levels. And but ultimately, I think it
doesn't really matter what levelyou're on.

(30:46):
You're always going to be looking for more and wanting to
do more. And I think that's a good thing,
you know, to kind of keep striving and doing more.
And I don't know if you have anything to add, Liam.
And I'd say I'd say, yeah, consistency is key and doing
things for the right reasons, asyou said as well, work with the

(31:09):
people who have the same sort ofreasons that they're working and
making the things they make. Do it for the love of it.
You know, that doesn't necessarily come with or without
money, but like it's always fun when people are kind of, I mean,

(31:31):
yeah, when we, when we're putting a gig on or doing doing
these things, we're looking at, it sounds like we're just trying
to have a party, but like we're just trying to have a fun time.
It's not not usually going towards like a seriously thought
out stage or anything like that that we're beating ourselves up
over. But when we get to have those

(31:54):
really fun times with people whoare also having fun and making
records and, and doing things and sharing those contacts with
people who we, who we also are big fans of, that's that's a
good reason to do something, I think.
And like, feels like a point that kind of goes without

(32:18):
saying, but just being kind of respectful and nice to people
helps. I'm just not wasting anyone's
time. I know we were, we've wasted
people's time. It's fine.
But we've like. Try not to burn bridges, yeah?
Yeah, that's a that's a motto. That is if we had like a studio,

(32:38):
which we don't, which we'd love,that would be probably on a big
plaque on the wall. Don't burn any bridges or try
and repair those that you have burnt.
It's not like the old days of Rock'n'roll, is it, when you can
smash a hotel room up? It's just not.
And this economy is just not possible is.

(32:59):
It no it's. Possible anyone really ever
liked that? Yeah, I don't think we're that
rock'n'roll either, you know? You're wearing a cardigan.
I know that's that takes away this is a new cardigan so shut
up. It's even worse.
It's a nice cardigan. It's a nice cardigan.
You listen, you got your folk, your folk artist.

(33:20):
Now you know you got. Yeah.
Yeah, maybe by the end of the interview, Donna, you can try
some of the different coats on as well if you want to pick this
up. Some of them are.
Probably like far more rock'n'roll than the one I'm
wearing. Look like an old military man at
night. You do like we eat your private
Sergeant Peppers or something. There you go be cool.

(33:43):
And what was I going to say? Well, 1A flag as well, just for
people. And if you're watching on
YouTube, like there's links to Waverly's music and Black Hole
and all the those other artists and stuff in the show notes.
So just click there. Gonna find out more.
But I mean, brilliant. You're getting a vinyl coming
out with this new EP as well. Like I've seen some of the
pictures. It looks class and yeah, it's

(34:03):
exciting. It must be nice just to have
that physical thing into that. Oh my God, this we're actually
musicians. We've got we've got vinyl.
I think just as you say those milestones and stuff.
Hello, it's Jamie here. I hope you're enjoying this
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say that if you're listening to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or
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(34:23):
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(34:44):
the rest of today's episode. And we'll touch on the EP in a
SEC, but I want to ask about those milestones, like what has
been the sort of biggest milestone for you as a band so
far? And Leo join to take this one
far. Oh, that's a good question.
I think, I think going back to, I think we all look back quite

(35:09):
firmly on the recording of this EP in that we kind of sort of
isolate ourselves to work on that.
It doesn't seem like a sort of very public facing milestone.
But we, I, I, I feel for you to correct me if I'm wrong, but I
felt like we kind of really got to know about working together

(35:32):
and what kind of music we wantedto make and where the what
future of the band is. Just by sending ourselves away
for like a week up in the islands with Graham and Robin,
our engineers and producers, andcoming out with something that

(35:54):
we really loved. I think that felt like a big
milestone. We've had a lot of good support
as well. Like from that, you know, the
BBC have been behind us when I think, yeah, when Tom Robinson
played the 1st signal from our last EP on the radio twice, like

(36:15):
Drivetime Radio 6, that was like, yeah.
And people people like that taking note, note of us or just
the music that we make and beinghaving kind words to say.
That's there may be marginal andsmall milestones in the grand

(36:38):
scheme of things, but keep us going.
Yeah, and the gigs as well. Like when we did our EP launch
last year, we had the physical record in our hands that we
could say This Is Us, that we made this.
And then we went and played a gig that was rammed and, you
know, everyone had a good time it seemed, and we had a great

(36:59):
time on stage. We got to share that.
Even Leo from They Sleeper came and played a solo set.
We've handpicked. You know, it was all just a
really great night. We went to go out afterwards and
so like playing gigs like that EP launch at the Mash House and
you know, getting the first callup to King Tut's Wow Waha felt
like a really big thing. Like this venue that we've all

(37:19):
been to and it's lauded and it'sthis great.
There's a milestone in any band life being King Tut's, even the
bands from America, they come over and say I want to play King
Tut's bands from England. So again, asked to play it or
you know, we headlined it as part of the summer festival and
like seeing so many people thereand going on that stage, stuff

(37:40):
like that, like the gigs are thegigs are special as well.
And like even little things likeplaying like record store day
event last year was great. It failed and and selling out
Sneaky Pete's and all these things, they all add up.
I mean, every gigs a milestone because ultimately we're not not
the 70s anymore where you're 2 and you play 100 gigs a year,

(38:02):
150 gigs a year. You can't do that anymore.
It doesn't happen. So you probably do remember
everyone a little bit more. They all seem like milestones in
their own way. First gig we ever played outside
of Scotland, first gig in Londonand all these little things just
as well. Do you have any anything to add

(38:23):
to this milestone question before we move on to the next
question? I think maybe coming a bit
closer to to now, I think this year we've already had quite a
few kind of make it quite an exciting year for us.
It seems to be that each year the kind of milestones get
slightly bigger. So we had, we started the year

(38:45):
with a show of Kelvin Connections, which is a festival
over in Glasgow. That was really cool to be
invited to play that and to headline the GLAD Cafe and for
it to be sold out. I wish I'd known, honestly.
Around the corner from where I live, so.
So is it. Never mind.
It's a lovely, lovely part down there I'll be.

(39:07):
I'll be moving my way there at some point.
You need to get yourself. I'm not giving away my address
to the list. I know I'm giving the listeners.
I'm going to know too much information there.
Oh good. Yeah, it's a really cool venue.
And we we for the first time, wehad got a string accompanying.

(39:28):
I meant for that. So we had a violinist come and
play with us. And it was just, yeah, I mean,
we're a five piece. So then to include the 6th was
was exciting. And to have other people kind of
come and contribute to our music.
And that was a cool thing. And we had Katie Mackey, who was
a support, incredible solo artist in her own right, but she

(39:51):
plays in Kilgore. She came on and sang one of the
songs at the end. And then since then we saw that
the like boy, I said Sneaky Pete's BBC Introducing.
So there's some big ones this year.
It's class and of course the you've got some gigs coming up
first part of the EP launch as well.

(40:12):
So again, just the flag the dates for all that are below and
we can we'll plug them as we go.But no, that's brilliant.
Thank you. Thank you for asking and
answering those questions about Melson as well.
It's also nice. It's nice to reflect.
And yeah, let's talk about the EP itself.
Obviously, as I just mentioned, like it's coming out what, two
weeks from when we're recording this, but we'll depending on

(40:33):
when this episode comes out, it might be out now or it might be
about to come out. So yeah.
Is it 2 weeks? That's kind of worrying, isn't
it? Yeah.
We're gonna move on, boys. We've got stuff to do.
It's quite a, it's a tough one to to get out.

(40:53):
We can capture that quite quickly, but.
It's called flail Leo. That's the, that was the prompt
I was looking for. Yes, it's called Flail.
And I think it continues on witha bit of a, you know, we've,
we've had a sort of impetus as aband to even with our first CP,

(41:14):
we tried to not make the same song twice or make a collection
of songs that sound roughly the same.
I think we've done, we've taken that and expanded on it and
gone, you know, if we were goingthis far apart before, you know,
we've pushed the boundaries of where we're going.
We've done EP starts really quite strongly and intensely

(41:40):
with how it starts, which is a single we put out in November I
think. And.
Then culminates in quite a quietso cadal Donny that was
mentioned before by you and Donny's a really lovely ballad.
It's piano and harmonica based and then exploring all the sort

(42:04):
of intricacies as a band playingplaying together more.
The EPS largely recorded live, which we hadn't done before.
We usually multi tracked a lot of things and the most enjoyment
that we got last time was from recording live all playing at
the same time. I think the song in the Corner

(42:25):
is pretty much entirely just onetake.
Brilliant if. If you listen to like there's a
we've got an instrumental version of the track, but like
you can still hear you and his vocals just coming through the
every mic in the room because he's going through and then

(42:46):
exploring even more things like Pete Harvey added some strings
to nettle the cello arrangement,which was amazing to have just
come out of the woodwork and it really makes that song such a
stand out in. Yeah.
I think that for me, for me is that that was a good milestone

(43:06):
that, you know, hearing the mix come in for the song that we
recorded in the Highlands and the our producer had pinged it
across to this incredible cello player.
And and then kind of first lesson of that, I can't remember
where I was, but yeah, just quite emotional actually hearing

(43:27):
these like strings over our music.
So yeah, sorry Leo, but yeah, definitely highlight for me.

(44:09):
They're both. They're both quite emotional,
those two songs. I know the SDP, obviously that's
not like yet, but those two songs are quite emotional.
They're on AP especially like net with the strings and stuff.
Like they. Yeah, generally there's a band
and I've completely forgotten their name.
I don't know what it reminded meof them.
I meant to say this earlier, oneof the other bands that your
music brought to mind, but I think it's the guy that was in
the shins and it might be one ofthe guys to the National.

(44:31):
We're in a band together. They did a song called like 1000
times or something, was one of their hits, but totally
forgotten the name of them. But yeah, they're very good.
We can, we can Google it. We can cheat and Google it.
Yeah, well, we love those bands.I don't know that one, but we
love those bands. I think the EP is where we we
decamped. We wrote the songs while we had

(44:51):
loads of songs because we've gotmultiple songwriters in the
band. We had loads of them lying about
and obviously we wanted to pick the best ones, the most exciting
ones. We're also wanted ones that
dramatically linked and you could hear together as like, you
know, playing as one because while they are completely
separate entities, we've always loved sort of not concept

(45:14):
albums, but albums that flow, albums that sort of have an
overarching theme. And like that's why the EP, even
the last one and this one, we'vegot songs that blend into each
other is in similar keys. We've got an instrumental song
in this CP called Math, which bridges how it starts in the
corner. And it's, it's all about,

(45:34):
although it's an EP, it's 6 songs or five tracks with an
instrumental. We wanted it to be like a mini
album like this cohesive hole. And we, we were saying that we
want it and that's why we recorded live.
We wanted it all to be set up all week.
We're not using different mic's in the same mic's in the same
amp. So we're going to set up and
it's going to be 1 cohesive sounding thing where despite the

(45:55):
songs being different and takinginfluence from different things,
there's, there's going to be a feel to it.
And we wanted to do that all in one place as well with limited
overdubs and by albums like likewe were discussing them on the
way up, like Elliot Smith and bands like that.
We can hear the the first Bunny ver album where you can hear the

(46:16):
creaking, you can hear that everything.
And we, we incorporated elementsof that of like mistakes or, you
know, Rory going to the toilet and shutting the door, you know,
it's all in there. And so we did that and we all
the songs were written fairly close together.
We didn't have like years apart between most of them.
They're all written in a fairly concise free 4 month period.
So it does kind of capture me Ewan and everyone chips in with

(46:41):
the odd lyric here and there. It kind of encapsulates that
that period of time for us. And we, we had an overarching
idea of we, we, some of the themes we discussed were like
indulgence and want and sort of things like that.
And we wanted the album to run like a like those themes.

(47:02):
So that how it starts, starts with the the raw energy and the
romance of what's going to come.The I'm excited, like whether
that's a night out or whether that's, you know, a big event
or, or just meeting up with friends or something like that
at the pub or you not knowing what's going to come, you know,
the nights available. And then and then it drops off.
And then Cadal finishes with a sombre sort of call it the

(47:26):
morning after of the, of the evening.
So it's like we wanted it all tobe this one thing and see how it
flowed and we and there's lyrics, you know, things that
crop up in different songs across the EP.
So yeah, that's what we that's what we wanted to do on it
always. And then even the artwork was
part of that. How does that It's called flail

(47:46):
because of the words and how it starts.
The EP cover is our sort of shaky photograph that Jake took
while we're in the Highlands playing a show, either through
accident, by accident or throughdrunkenness.
But it worked with the flail. The sort of uncertainty the, the
yeah that we wanted to put over in the in the EP, we had a,

(48:10):
that's what I think we did with the last one.
But we had a real good think about this and a good discussion
about what we wanted to create, how it was going to be created
that way. And then you know what these
things were that we were wantingto discuss.
No, it's cool. And and the live, I know the two
live tracks you put on your YouTube channel recently are

(48:31):
both of the songs are they're very good as well.
And it's it's interesting you said that you sort of almost
recorded a lot of this like basically live because you
couldn't really tell much difference between the single
and those live tracks as they sound in a good way.
And we'll probably try and link this on the episode when it
comes out as well. We put a wee clip to those live
performances on this episode that we headed to together see

(48:51):
as well. We talk, the monophonic man told
Love. Seven years between these eyes,
these are emotional and abide and see them grow like those

(49:19):
hands, like origins, the apples they grow.
That sort of leads one to the next question for you, the
freebie as well, which is about.How do you?
Collaborate as a band and how does like the writing of songs

(49:41):
and being in the studio, how do you approach all that
creatively? Like you're saying Donny, that
you and you and sort of do a lotof the lyrics like and then I'm
assuming like Leo and the rest of the bands, you kind of all
just chip in. Do you have is there a process
there? Does it just depend on the song
and the and the time and stuff? I think, I think it does depend
on the song sometimes. I think the typical way it works

(50:03):
is that me and Donnie will have the the core of a song, or we'll
work together on the core of thesong and then we'll we'll ping
it across the other guys or, or jam out in a rehearsal studio.
But I wouldn't necessarily say that that's the rule from our
last EP, for example, Rest and Be Thankful is a good example of

(50:25):
that. That's it was it was Leo's
guitar riff, which I think if you listen to it, it's quite a
fast, intricate guitar look. But at the time it was quite a
lot slower. I would say it's fair, Leo.
And we just, we just jammed it and I mumbled over it.

(50:48):
Dolly wrote the lyrics to it, Jake, Jake chipped in with the
the title or the hook, the chorus, and Rory always had
something interesting or unusualfrom a drumming perspective.
I think that's what makes him sointeresting as a drummer, is
that being kind of jazz trained,it's kind of quite

(51:13):
unconventional things that he's drawn to.
Which in that case was just makeit way faster.
Yeah, sometimes it'll be demos, sometimes it'll be demos that we
do. So it could be, you know, quite
built up already and it'll come to come to the rest of the band

(51:33):
and. But usually it deviates from
that anyway. So varied and.
You guys, in terms of this, oh, sorry, in terms of this EP, in
terms of this EPI think Grace was a good example of quite a
weird process. I remember Donnie like phoning

(51:58):
me. I mean, because between London
and Edinburgh, like you phoned me with an idea for a song and I
felt, I felt like we'd been transported to the fucking
1990s. Like we were like actually
writing a song over the phone where I was like, just like
shouting down the phone, like try this, do this chord on the

(52:19):
piano, like move that finger. And then and it started, it
started in quite a different space.
And then we got it somewhere. I think that demo ended up with
you and you and you transformed it a bit and then took it to the
band. And it was quite a quite a
strange process, but it worked out really well.

(52:42):
No, that's cool. I suppose that is actually got
was another question I was goingto ask and then and to be very
clear to anyone listen, we over there very much a Scottish bass
band. It doesn't matter where you live
sometimes, but I know some of you live in London are based in
London some of the time. So how does that sort of
geographical difference work foryou?
I mean, you're saying on the phone there Leo sometimes
writing songs and stuff. But I mean, I'm assuming you
guys obviously want to be together as much as possible in

(53:03):
the room and stuff when you're, but it's obviously easier.
So how does that work for the band?
I'm sure there's bands listeningthat have broken up because of
that. So it's a testament that you
guys have have made that work. But we're getting used to these
calls, that's for sure. So we're used to doing these
kind of online connections. And yeah, it's just, it's just

(53:26):
about being prepared to do more and to, to, to go and be willing
to kind of just say yes to stuff.
And so we, it really doesn't limit us in being available for
things. And it does make the kind of
songwriting process a little bitmore interesting sometimes.
Yeah, we work. We work.

(53:48):
We make sure that everything is fleshed out.
It's not between people via voice memos and demos, which we
never did before. So it's actually quite a nice
process now of like some of these songs come more fully
formed. Nettle was an example where you
and bounced over to me when it was like pretty much there

(54:09):
already. And then all we had to do is
just sort of, you know, work outwhat was going on and right, how
can I write a part over that? Or I want to keep that specific
part of the demo. So we use that more.
And it's just me and you. And we'll meet up and write
together. And in practice our parts
together. We'll rehearse as a dual and
doing acoustic sort of stuff or on the keys.
And then then sometimes Leo, Jake and Rory meet up in

(54:31):
Scotland and go through the rhythm section with Leo just
sort of barking orders and then having sort of a guide.
Vocal. Which means that when we come
back together, we're actually more prepared than me.
We're never away very long. But it's also the case like we
are quite busy. So we we're up once a month at
least. And then in May, we're up all

(54:51):
month in May. So, you know, you can get quite
a lot done if you're with each other five nights a week for a
month. And we're always writing songs.
So the songs are always known toeach other before they go arrive
at the studio or the rehearsal space where it's very rare for
us to but we did say it. They're very rare for a song
never to have been even heard orthe ref to have never been

(55:13):
listened to or, you know, a discussion never had been had
song. So it's, it's prepared and it's
willing to go the extra mile andit's willing to spend a lot of
time together in shorter bursts.But we often don't go.
You'll see each other for a month maybe and then we'll have
a month of every single, almost every single night.

(55:34):
So it's, it's just willing to dothat.
And because maybe because we're good friends from childhood, we
don't hate each other yet, so. Distance, the hard grow Thunder
and all that as well. Maybe.
I suppose it is interesting though, because like a lot of
the creative things and a lot ofjobs now there's a lot more room

(55:54):
and from COVID and stuff. So there's a lot more you can do
a lot of collaboration remotely.And in some ways it might force
you to have to do that more and work harder because there's that
distance where it's like if you're like, oh, just do it on
Thursday because we'll be together, you know, band
practice, whatever. So maybe allows you to all
working with it. This suits everyone and I know
everyone's different. Anyway, that's interesting.

(56:14):
Also just a very much to circle back to someone I said about 10
minutes ago that did quickly. How do we Google when money were
answering the question? The band and reference are not
from the shins. They're from the it's the front
man of the Walkman did this. So I was completely wrong there.
They are both New York bands, but just a little just correct
to myself there. So what was the band?
My diagram. So it's the front man.

(56:35):
I think it's the front man from the Walkman and they did like a
little side project and his name's Hamilton or something.
They did a little snake project.Yeah, like 2017.
A little total tangent there, but just I want to correct
because I don't like we we saw incorrectly.
Me and you and saw the Walkman last year so I'll definitely
check that out. I didn't.
I know, I think I know. It's that exact album.

(56:58):
I'm pretty sure I referenced it in like when we were like making
metal. I'm pretty sure it's I think
it's the light hazard and rost them from.
That's the exact one, yeah, about.
A week ago, Yeah. Great.
Very. Well, very single wrong 2 good.

(57:20):
Good. Journalism.
Yeah, there you go. I just said the wrong 2 bands in
my original observation. But you know, it's too many.
There's too many. I've started to wrap things up
because I know it's, it's mental.
It's already nearly been an hourand I appreciate, I know there's
been some, there's a bit of a delay and stuff and there's four
of us on it. So we're Speaking of each a wee
bit something. So I appreciate your patience

(57:41):
throughout as well. But just to sort of wrap things
up, I guess my last question of often I ask people that are on
the show their advice for other people.
But I kind of want to know, like, what do you wish somebody
had told you as a band when you first started that you maybe
know now to what someone you wish somebody had said before
you started the band? I'll let you all ponder for a

(58:02):
moment and then you can decide which one wants to go for.
Maybe jump in, I've got something that I think if
someone told me that you let's kind of touch this one, Leo, one
of the pieces that Leo talked onearlier, which is you kind of
need to make yourself a bit of aJack of everything, a bit of

(58:24):
Jack of all trades if you want to be able to market yourself
and then play the music and build the connections and write
the songs. And and you're not going to
always be on stage playing musicconstantly.
And you need to learn to enjoy that, which I think I have come

(58:47):
to. But you get you need to get used
to just working away in the shadows for a bit.
That would be that would have been good to get told.
Leo, you go, you go. Sign to say.
It's almost like the opposite answer.
Yeah, it's a bit of a sort of Schrodinger's cat of like, I

(59:10):
don't know whether I'd rather someone have told me that there
was going to be this much admin or I or I'm more encouraged to
be. I guess when you put it like
that, yeah. Someone told me that I'm like,
I'm going to. Be sending e-mail for like.
Yeah, I'm like, Nah, I'm not doing that.

(59:31):
Yeah, I'm here now. Yeah.
I think someone just said, well,we, we, we got this great
training at this council projectof, you know, like, but not for
you in the deep end you in. But you hadn't played a gig
until you were about 19. So we'd got a little bit of
training, but of, of how to correctly set up, how to, you

(59:54):
know, how PA works, little things like that and like little
things that we all learned like.Yeah, a clip on tuner, right?
Not a clip on tuner. Get a stomp tuner, get a that
cuts out your feet. Get a write your set list with
instructions on it so they don'tput the capital on the wrong
fret. Like little things like this,

(01:00:16):
I'm referencing you and like these are things that have.
Happened. I might have done that.
Tell your drummer to come 15 minutes earlier than he actually
needed. And just like little things,
just get Rory to arrive on time,you know?
Little are we just like throwingeach other under the bus here?

(01:00:37):
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know what else
someone but just yet be willing to also, we've got a nice system
where we've got our it's quite democratic, although there's
probably, you know, things that people feel more strongly on

(01:00:58):
have a system to veto, I would say is really helpful because
while we're all quite amenable to decisions and you know, if
it's your song, you've probably got a stronger opinion on it
than than someone else. But we've got a we ball player.
I will literally die on this hill card.
Like I will die. Don't do this to me.

(01:01:18):
And it's been useful with stuff like a font before, but have
that that system of like. Sounds ridiculous, but it's
honestly very important. I think the whole thing started.
Maybe you'd tell the story real quickly.
Yeah, I think this came from, you know, the thing I was
mentioning before about like that milestone of making the

(01:01:40):
second EP and learning how we all work together up north, and
I'm pretty sure it came from that.
Am I right? Is that?
Yeah, yeah. I don't know exactly what it was
about, but I think it was me. There was a live session solo I
think, and there was a, there was a version that had a little

(01:02:00):
bit of a bum note in it and I was like, that's the best
version please. Like I will literally die.
And they said it's never going anywhere type thing.
We all get one. And yeah, like Donnie says, it's
been used for some silly. Things, is it 1A year or is it
like yeah, one a year, one one ever or if you will not wear

(01:02:20):
that out? We should start keeping track of
this because I. Think I use it like once a
month. Yeah.
Wow. We probably should.
No, we probably should. It's not that frequent.
We probably should get like a limit, you know?
I've used, I think I've used one.
Yeah, yeah. It's like once every so often,
like I will die. Do not put that out.

(01:02:41):
I am not putting my name on thatwhich sounds harsh but it works.
Before we wrap things up, troll before we wrap things up to you,
just what what's coming up for you guys?
Obviously the EP, but you couldn't want to plug anything
very quickly. Obviously there's links below
but and if you want to plug as well that I've maybe missed.

(01:03:06):
Don is good with dates. I'm good with dates and we are I
suppose around whenever this gets released.
Don't know when this gets released but around the EP Flail
on the 2nd of May we are then going on a, we're calling it a
tour. 3rd of May we're playing Stagger and Dagger in Glasgow.
9th of May is our EP launch withLacuna the Cabaret Voltaire in

(01:03:30):
Edinburgh. And then we're going down to
London with Days Sleeper to playand then we're playing My Carts
with Days Sleeper on the 16th ofMay.
So those dates and then we play per festival, the Arts in June.
And then then it's just keep an eye on the rest of the year
because we've probably got a fewmore things cropping up before
before the end. And probably back in the studio.

(01:03:53):
There'll probably be some new music by the end of the year,
but nothing to to tell you as ofyet.
Yeah, we got some. We got some exciting news today,
but we're not going to. We'll, we'll have to.
Sorry, yeah, we can't get every exclusive on this podcast, so
it's all good. No listen lads, honestly really
nice to chat to you. I love having bands on the show.

(01:04:15):
Not I don't do it as often as I'd like.
Actually, I should do it more. I love music and this is my way
of the closest thing I'll ever get to being in a band there.
I've accepted that. So, you know, the teenage
version of Jamie enjoys chattingto musicians because I get to,
like, be a bit geeky about musicand then say band names wrong
and mix them up, but then get them right eventually.
So it's great. But no, thank you very much,
Lance. Yeah, No, thank you very much,

(01:04:37):
Lance. And I wish you all the best of
the EP. And yeah, thanks for coming on
the show. Thank you very much for having
us. Yeah, talking over here.

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Ep. 169 - Making Music in 2025: ‘waverley.’ on Graft, Growth & Getting Heard

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 169 - Making Music in 2025: ‘waverley.’ on Graft, Growth & Getting Heard