May 28, 2025 • 49 mins
This week on Just Get A Real Job, I’m joined by Lizzy Skrzypiec. She’s an improviser, director, and the artistic director of Bristol’s long-running improv troupe Degrees of Error. Lizzy is also the creative force behind Murder, She Didn’t Write 🕵️♀️ the hit improvised murder mystery show currently touring the UK after seven sold-out runs at the Edinburgh Fringe and a recent West End debut at London’s Duchess Theatre. A key figure at the Bristol Improv Theatre, the UK’s first venue dedicated entirely to improv, Lizzy regularly mentors emerging troupes and supports the next wave of British comedy talent. Alongside her theatre work, she’s built a successful full-time career in television, producing major game shows like Bridge of Lies and Ant and Dec’s Limitless Win 📺
In this episode, we chat about:
🎭 13 years of Murder, She Didn’t Write
🧠 What improv actually is—and why it’s more than just messing about
💸 The financial realities of freelancing in the arts
🎬 Working in factual and entertainment TV
🎤 Her biggest creative influences
🌪 Lessons from life as a performer
🎉 Finding joy and connection in a constantly shifting industry
A really fun and honest conversation with someone who’s spent over a decade finding the funny and having fun in an uncertain industry.
Lizzy Skrzypiec:
Murder, She Didn't Write: https://www.murdershedidntwrite.com/cast/lizzy-skrzypiec
Degrees of Error Present: More Stuff She Didn't Write: https://improvtheatre.co.uk/upcoming-show/degrees-of-error-present-more-stuff-she-didnt-write/2024-05-05/
🌍 Visit our website: https://linktr.ee/Justgetarealjobpodcast
💙 Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/justgetarealjob
📲 Follow us on:
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🎧 Listen on:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Just Get a
Real Job podcast with your host,me, Jamie McKinley.
I hope you're all having a greatweek and.
Thank you as. Always for tuning in to the
show, I'm thrilled to welcome onthe show this week Lizzie Script
Yet, who is the artistic director of Degrees of Error and
is one of the performers and director of the hit show Murder
(00:27):
She Didn't Write, which is currently on tour and we'll be
returning to the Edinburgh Fringe again this year.
I think that show has been goingfor something mad like 13 years
or something. So it's a highly popular show
and as well as being someone that performs in all these
shows, Lizzie also works in the entertainment and factual space
in TV, working on many popular game shows including Bridge of
(00:49):
Lies and Ant and Dec Limitless win.
So it was really interesting to chat to her about that side of
the creative industry as well. We had a really nice
conversation about lots of things including touring,
performing somewhere, let Edinburgh Fringe, how that's
changed over the years, improv and many other things.
It was a great chat and a pleasure to have Lizzie on the
show very quickly. Before we get into this week's
(01:09):
episode as well, I just wanted to plug that we are going to be
doing a live podcast in Glasgow on the 22nd of June.
Very excited for this. We're doing a sort of panel in
collaboration with a company called And Friends, which is
run. By a previous.
Podcast guest Katrina McLeod, who we had on a couple of years
ago. Yeah.
So we're doing a live event. It's going to be a panel about
(01:31):
independent filmmaking and how that's all working in 2025.
We've got a brilliant panel lined up for that.
We haven't announced them all yet, but I'll be more info on
that coming on the podcast soon.So keep an eye on our social
media channels. But tickets are on sale for that
now and there's a link to that in the show notes.
Anyway, thank you as always for tuning in to the podcast.
(01:51):
I hope you enjoy Episode 170. Just get a real job.
(02:11):
Lizzie, how's it going? Lovely to have you on the
podcast again, just and the listeners don't really need to
know this, but just we'll just tell them anyway.
But this is our our kind of third attempt to try to record
because we did start chatting a few weeks ago and then we had
some tech issues and then last week you had some horrible
flooding and we're going to makethis work.
(02:31):
So thank you for coming on the show.
We've finally, yeah, it's finally happened.
The stars have aligned, but I amexpecting where I am to flood
almost immediately. I'm looking around.
I'm just double checking it'll. Be flooded at any moment.
And where are you speaking from us to us from today?
(02:53):
Like you did you say you're in Winchester.
Yeah, so we've got, we've got two nights at the Winchester
Theatre Royal before a short break of a couple of days in the
tour and then we're off up north.
We're going to Coventry and lotsof other different places on our
tour. So yeah, it's nice.
And when you get to stay somewhere a few days, you do
(03:13):
kind of get to see a bit of the local area, because we're often
sort of in the back of a theatre, out the back of a
theatre in a van. So you see a lot of motorways,
but not necessarily a lot of thecities where we go.
So yeah, it's lovely, very charming.
I've seen a lot of bunting. I'd say more bunting than you'd
(03:34):
expect to see of a city, but yeah, very lovely.
I always find the word, I don't know why, but the word bunting
always amuses me. It's just such a strange word
and quite, yeah. It's very quiet, isn't it?
Bunting bunting and ginger beer.I suppose we should actually
introduce you to the list, though.
So do you want to quickly introduce yourself?
(03:55):
Of course, you know you're on tour with Murder She is it
Murder She didn't write, it's called.
Yeah, Murder She didn't write. We didn't write it because it's
completely unscripted. So yes, I'm, this is Skippy.
I'm director and and performer in Murder She Didn't Write, also
known as Detective Agatha Crusty.
(04:16):
If I'm solving the crimes ratherthan causing them and and yeah,
that we're on we're on tour of the UK, but I'm also ATV
questions producer and in part of my life so.
But I've recently moved over into sort of a lot more theatre,
which I've been doing for many years.
So yeah. It's a juggle.
(04:37):
No, thank you for, well, thank you for introducing yourself,
Lizzie as well. And of course you involved in
quite a lot of improv things in Bristol as well that you've sort
of run a company there for that.And it'll be interesting to talk
to you about your sort of day job, you know, working on, you
know, game shows and question shows and stuff and talk to you
about your sort of other, your other life moving into theatre
(04:58):
as a performer and how that all works as well.
But I suppose a good place to start is we I've always been
interested in the arts. Like what are your sort of early
memories? Were you always into creative
things? Did you always like game shows?
That was where does those also stem from?
Yeah, I don't know, I I'm a bit of a science nerd.
(05:24):
Yeah, I was always into my science stuff and I did like a
science. But I think sometimes when you
have these like quite straight laced pursuits, you, you kind of
desire doing more and more sillystuff maybe in your spare time.
(05:45):
So I have always been a bit silly and A and a bit stupid, I
think in my spare time. So yeah, I've always done a lot
of performing really, even throughout university.
That was when I discovered improv and it helps with my
slightly terrible memory at times.
I think I was enamoured with this art form where you didn't
(06:07):
have to learn a script or remember any lines, you could
just make stuff up, which is my main criticism when I used to do
bitter anyway, was it's close enough to the line, which I used
to think made directors really upset with me when you didn't
don't say things exactly right. And then there's suddenly this
art form where you can say whatever you like.
(06:29):
So I think, yeah, I've always enjoyed doing.
There's always been a bit of improv to me.
I guess you just there's a word for it.
And then uni was when I started doing it a lot more with my
time. I think so, yeah.
You've always been a bit. Silly.
It's interesting with improv because I mean at my day job I
edit scripts for TV and it's very structured when you edit a
(06:53):
script. And when I've seen, I've seen
quite a lot of improv this week.And what I find interesting
about it is for me watching it is like the total opposite.
So like there is no rules as such.
I know there is an art form and you learn and we make a talk a
bit about what improv is and stuff because we haven't had a
lot of people involved in improvon the podcast before.
And I think it's very much a growing medium in the UK.
And there's things like SNL and,you know, come into the UK as
(07:15):
well and, you know, as you're, you're on tour of an improv show
and, you know, that's popular and stuff.
So I mean, it's interesting to talk about.
But yeah, it's so like differentto what the sort of mediums of
art that I maybe grew up watching are in some ways.
So, you know, as an interesting medium.
And it is quite silly. And it must be freeing to be
able to be silly like that on stage because I think I'd
probably take myself slightly too seriously to to do improv.
(07:39):
I don't know. You can't take yourself
seriously, I think, and do improv.
It's it's not possible really. It gives, it gives you a couple
of things like there are rules to it which I can always give
into. But like it is very freeing to
go on stage and feel comfortableknowing you'll always say
something. And when we do our show, we are
(08:00):
on stage with five other people and you're all going to say
something. And if you don't say something,
someone else will say something.So you sort of always supported
Internet, I think. And because you're on stage with
so many other people, that is five agents of chaos, that if
you have a plan and want to do something serious, they will
ruin it on purpose for fun. And I also find it fun to ruin
(08:25):
other people's plans or serious moments.
So I think, yeah, it it makes you less and less serious.
Or certainly with our group withmurder, she didn't run it.
So yeah, you go on stage, you might have these ideas of a rich
character you might like to play, but someone walks on and
they're like, ah, yes, Francescothe Spanish musician is here or
(08:48):
the, and you go, OK, bye. Or someone a bit, you come on
looking rather regal and they'relike, ah, it's grandma.
And you're suddenly a completelydifferent character.
So you've got to roll with the punches, I think.
It's interesting. Well, there's obviously I want
to talk to you about your quid stuff and like working and on
that side of TV as well 'cause Ithink he's interested in some of
(09:10):
our listeners who may want to work in factual or
entertainment, that side of things.
But while we're sort of on improv, I think it's an
interesting thing 'cause we'd, we had someone who's like
started a company in Glasgow with Glasgow and Profio and we
had them on last week on the show.
And who knows what order these episodes are going out.
And so that might not have actually dropped for the
listeners yet. Who knows?
(09:31):
But what was interesting to talkabout was the medium itself.
As I touched on, it's a growing medium.
So just for any listeners that might not know much about
improv, because I do think in the UK, there's quite a
stereotype of it. You know, we think of it as an
Americanized comedy form. And a lot of people have only
seen it maybe on TV or like, youknow, have a very vague
understanding of it. So I suppose in very simple
(09:53):
terms like how would you describe improv?
So, yeah, it's, it's more for us, it's unscripted theatre.
So we go on a stage with no ideawhat's going to happen.
There are sort of a number of rules which you abide by, sort
of say yes, commit to the world,you make your stage part and
look good and stuff like that. And you always build yes.
(10:15):
And, and as long as you set 10 to adhere to those rules, you'll
probably do a good scene. But yeah, it's going on stage
and acting and reacting when youdon't know what's going to
happen. So you can take it down a more
theatrical route if you like, like we try to.
Or you could take it down a morecomedy route and there's sort of
(10:37):
more scenes. And if you've seen stuff like
Whose Line Is it anyway? Or anything like that, then
you're sort of seeing it in its short form, like sketchy
context. But we take it in the form where
we do a whole play, we do a whole murder mystery.
So you you wouldn't come on and be like, my name is the crazy
(10:58):
shop owner, Mr. Big Lips and I've got, you know, whatever
you'll you've got to have a a deeper character that lasts the
whole show. So you'll sort of you've got
less of these gag characters andstuff.
That's a bit deeper, I think. So yeah, that's that's what it
(11:20):
is to us. That's improv.
And have you sort of found yourself sort of starting at a
uni and, and continuing to do itafterwards and, and now, you
know, doing it more professionally?
Have you, do you think it has grown as a medium?
Do you think it's become more popular and you know?
Well, in the time that I've beendoing it, I've started to see
more of it on the West End, and I started to see more of it on
(11:41):
TV. So going by that, I'd say yes.
So there's lots of like other improv groups that have sort of
paved the way that like show stoppers, they do an improvised
musical. They're on the West End and
you've got Ostentatious that do improvise Jane Austen novels.
They're on the West End and you've got you had Murder in
Successful, which is an improv format on BBC Three and I think
(12:06):
Yeah. And and whose line's still been
going. So there's and even at the
Fringe, you start to see the Edinburgh Fringe is something we
do every year. You start to see more and more
improv shows each year and they return and they're bigger and
they're fully bigger venues. So I would say from from that
aspect, yeah, it's growing, and it's growing in popularity.
At the beginning of every one ofour shows, I ask if people have
(12:29):
either seen our show or an improv show before.
And over the years, the cheers have got bigger and bigger, even
in some of the most unusual places where you think there
might not be a lot of improv, but actually people have still
heard of it. So I would say it's growing,
yeah. How long have you been doing
murder She didn't right now for like it's you've been to the
(12:50):
fringe of Utah. Is this how many years are you
on for the show now for? This show we're probably nearing
13 years. I'm clearly overlooked by my
research. To be fair, Liz, I didn't quite
realize it was that long. Last Man.
I know I'm actually old, so it is.
True, I've just done a backhanded compliment somewhere
(13:12):
I feel. But no, it's.
Fine. So yeah, we've been doing it a
long time. This will be our 11th Edinburgh
Fringe with the show, and obviously it's a couple of years
off for COVID, so yeah, that's along time to be doing the same
show. It's got to be enjoyable,
otherwise you wouldn't do it right.
Is it the same team that you've always done it with, or is it
sort of swapped throughout the years?
(13:32):
Is it sort of changed and adapted?
It's changed a bit, but there are some people that have been
in it since the beginning. So I've been in it since the
beginning, as has Steve and Caitlin has been in.
So there are three of us from the beginning, some of us for
about 6 or 7 years. So you know, there's and there's
some new people as well. But, but even when I say new
(13:54):
people, I'm still talking in thenumbers of years.
So we're incredibly close and weare a group of friends as much
as we are a group of actors, I would say.
Which is important. And I think again, what I like
about the medium is that you have to be, I mean, teamwork's
important across the arts and collaborations are important
across the arts. I don't think you can make a
career in this industry without being able to get on with people
(14:16):
not being an asshole and and be able to work as a team.
But I do think particularly in something like improv, you need
to work as a team, don't you? Because you kind of like saving
each other on stage all the time.
It's like it's, I suppose I don't fear as well, but I think
particularly in this you have tobe very trusting because you
have to trust something to take,you know, take a show of the
specific direction etcetera. Oh, exactly.
(14:37):
And also we do stuff on stage topurposely bring enjoyment to
each other. So, you know, if you're going to
make a joke, why not make a jokethat really makes your scene
partner almost break the character?
So yeah, the each member of Murder She Didn't Mind has, you
know, things they enjoy places that they're from and that and
(15:00):
you just want to sort of make them laugh, really.
And also we do pimp each other. So pimping is a thing where you
might be like, oh grandfather, sing us that famous song you
love to sing or something like that.
And suddenly the person on stagehas to sing a song or something
like that. So we often try and pimp each
other with things that we'll we know that they'll enjoy, or we
(15:23):
know that they won't enjoy if we're being mischievous.
Now that is always fun is what'sthe sort of have you ever pushed
it? What's that the furthest that
maybe ever pushed on stage? Have you ever managed to get
like a Co performer to like do something a bit mental or?
So people have done it to me. So we've had a few.
(15:45):
I didn't just do one, but one was where my dear friend Peter
Baker, I played this sort of woman of the Manor.
She like was pretty old and had unusual habits And and then
Peter brought on my midnight snack and handed it to me and
was like a midnight snack Madam.And that was a candle.
(16:06):
So I was like, challenge accepted.
So I ate a candle on stage. Very dedicated.
Yeah, it was gross. It was really gross.
I'd read wax between my teeth for hours after that show.
I was like kicking it out. And we, we, you know, we, we
sort of sometimes pimp each other to speak different
(16:28):
languages or yeah, or say that in Latin or something like that.
And depending on who it is depends on how much they enjoy
that specific pimp. Well, we'll talk about the show
and the dates and stuff in a bitmore detail.
I want also kind of want to ask you where you're from and how
that's also influenced you as a correct pest.
(16:49):
I'm always interested in people where they, you know, their
origins or where they grew up and how it's like had an impact
on where they are now. Yeah, I'm from Basildon in
Essex, so there's not a thrivingarts culture there.
There is a hell of an industrialestate which has a, a big
Nando's and a nightclub, which got me through my, my master's
(17:15):
through giving me various jobs and stuff.
But no, there's not a big arts culture there.
But it's near London. So I, I used to sometimes travel
in to sort of get various bits of culture.
But yeah, so it's, I think you, you sort of, I had to sort of
reach out to find it because, yeah, there wasn't a lot going
(17:37):
on in my local area. So although we do, yeah.
So I wonder how that sort of influenced who I am today.
I don't know really. Although I did grow up on stuff
like you, Peter Cook and Dudley Moore and Monty Python and sort
of French and Saunders frying Lorry, so a lot of sketch and
stuff. I always used to listen to bits
(17:58):
and bobs like that and watch that on the TV.
So TV was a big part of my my comedy Bones, I think.
It's interesting how much sketch, stand up, and improv all
tie into each other as well because they are very different,
but they are kind of all. They share a lot of some
overlapping similarities like, so it's interesting that you
(18:20):
know, watching stuff like that would influence your own
performance and style and stuff as well.
Oh yeah, I'm sure like there wassome very sort of silly
characters that would would absolutely fit in to sort of a
Monty Python sketch or somethinglike that.
And I think that builds your your idea on what comedy is.
(18:40):
And it was also nice to see thatyou may be not to be
disrespectful to any of those works because they have a
special place in my heart. But it was nice to see you don't
have to be so great at acting todo some of this stuff.
And actually you just have to have the enjoyment there.
So I one of the things I used tolove is when Peter Cook made
Dudley Moore laugh in and break character in a sketch.
(19:04):
And I'd be like, that is so unprofessional and so funny.
I used to love it. So I used to sometimes watch
Dudley Moore chuckling into a sandwich or something, playing
these two old men on the bench. And I would be like, oh, I can't
wait to. I want to try and make someone
else break character or someone try and make me break character.
So yeah. There is something very like
(19:26):
it's just joyous about watching someone laugh either at
themselves or from someone else on stage.
Because obviously even if you'reinvested in a show that it's
just, I don't know if makes for like seeing someone laughing
because and getting so into their own thing is just very
it's very enjoyable. And I don't, I think most
audiences are quite forgiven of that.
They don't mind like, you know, they're invested in the show,
(19:47):
but they don't mind if somebody's laughing as well.
Well, I'm a good time. I hope so.
Well, I also think if you're watching an improv show, you're
watching 2 shows, right? You're watching the show, the
characters and the murder. Well, for us, it's a murder
mystery and they're watching that, but they're also watching.
5 improvises, well, six including the pianist, 7
including our tech, you know, who are making stuff up on stage
(20:10):
and sort of there's the interpersonal stuff there that
we're doing to sort of throw each under under the bus or make
surprise each other and make each other laugh.
So they're also enjoying that level of the theatre I think,
which is almost like sport, I think sometimes, you know, Or
how will they deal with that comment?
What will they say to this? So I think yeah, you're watching
(20:32):
2 shows. No, for sure.
I I'm also curious like being inthe scene and stuff like how do
you feel about someone like SNL coming to the UK?
Like do you think that would be good for the UK?
Do you think it's a good will begood for the scene?
Do you think it might work here and stuff?
I know you also work in entertainment on TV as well, so
you might have like a an opinionfrom that side of things too.
(20:53):
Well, I hope we'll get to watch it because it is on Sky, so it
it's a shame. I'd have loved to have seen it
on one of the terrestrial channels that you get for free.
But yeah, it's, I mean, any, anyvehicle like that is going to be
opportunity. So I think it'd be great.
I'd love to see how it turns out.
(21:13):
One of the things I dislike about some American improv, and
I must say some there's some incredible American improv, but
I'm a lot of people used to see it.
Perhaps this is a day to view asa way to get to SNL as just a
stepping stone. And that's not, hey, hey man,
(21:35):
that's my whole art form. That's not a stepping stone.
That's a valid thing in itself. So a lot of people would just do
improv to get somewhere else, like a course.
And actually, I think it's more than that.
I think it's a whole thing that you can go and see the theatre
and it's a great experience. So I think I can't see it having
(21:56):
that bigger impact on improv, killing the art form.
But yeah, I think it'd be good. I'd love to see how it turns
out. And I hope they keep it.
Well, they will, you know, They'll keep it free and fun, I
think. Yeah, and hopefully give new
performers a chance as well. I mean, there was, it was on the
rest as entertainment. They did a segment about it and
(22:17):
Richard Osmond seemed pretty confident that they would.
It would be very good to sort ofgive grassroots comics and
performers and improvisers like a chance to, to maybe be on
telly for the first time and notjust have the same names.
So fingers crossed that can do that 'cause I do think we need
more mediums like that. Even sketches in the UK we
don't, I don't there isn't a huge amount of sketch shows.
(22:38):
I mean, there's a few smaller ones in Scotland, there's a few,
you know, shows that you, you know, you referenced a few
earlier even they feel like the,some of the more recent ones
like you had like Mitchell and Webb and stuff.
But there's not a lot of sketch stuff really in the mainstream.
It's a sort of narrow route in if, if.
I mean, not everyone does comedyto get on TV.
Some people just do it for to perform live and and that vibe
(23:01):
of it. But there were a few routes into
TV and you could either do a bitof mock the week.
You could be one of the less famous guests on mock the week.
You could be one of the less famous guests on Have I Got News
For You, or you could be one of the less famous guests, sort of
another panel show really. And those panel shows were a way
(23:21):
of you condensing your entire comedy career into 5 minutes.
You try and get all your gags out on TV and hopefully that
would give you another TV thing.But not all comedy is stand up,
like you said, like some a lot of it's sketch, some of it's
improv, some of it's just sort of clowning and there's not a
space for that to enter television.
(23:45):
So yeah, SNL could be a great other way to not just have
people say they're 5 minute condensed set, but actually to,
not that I'm sort of discrediting that that's works
incredibly well, but also to broaden it out and give other
performers a bit of screen time that don't just have the sort of
the the gags, they've got other types of comedy.
(24:07):
Yeah. And I think a lot of the other
one of the other sort of roots in is radio.
And radio also is great and it'sa brilliant medium.
So it's podcasting, but I suppose it's limiting as well
because you can't maybe improv and sketch are harder to do on
the radio than normal comedy. I don't know, I could be wrong.
But yeah, no, it's an, it's an interesting 1.
And that's not to mention all the other barriers that exist.
Like, you know, it's a very hardtime to work in the arts if you
(24:28):
don't come from some sort of financial privilege at the
moment. It's really hard to, you know,
pay your rent and work in the arts and.
Oh my goodness. I I could go on for days about
how it's. Yeah.
I mean, we used to put our own money up when we did early
fringe and you know, they, they say never risk your own money,
but it was a lot for us. You know, we'd put all of our
(24:49):
savings all, you know, all sort of back then it was there were
seven, you know, seven of us allput in everything we had into a
show. Not everyone's got savings.
So, you know, and not, and we not that we had a lot either.
So I think it's yeah, there's there'll be people out there
where the risk is less, you knowwhat I mean?
Whereas we had to make money. So we were flying day and night
(25:13):
because we knew that if we didn't make our money back, we
were kind of screwed. So and the and some of these
fringes and comedy festivals have got more and more and more
expensive the the Edinburgh Fringe being one of them.
That's crazy. Accommodation is.
It's just ridiculous. It's you're pricing.
We're pricing people out of the artist effectively.
And I, I, I, yeah, I feel like it's been, some of my listeners
(25:37):
might think it's been a bit of ableak year and I hope they don't
think I've gone all cynical. But I do think it's important to
talk about these issues. And we have to just be honest
with people. I think there's a magical
thinking in this industry where it's like, you'll make it and
you can, you know, everyone's going to be, you know, you just
keep working hard. And I think that is does bloody
help. Obviously you need to work hard
and put the graft in. But like, I don't think we
should just always lie to peopleeither and say that it's that
(25:59):
straightforward. I think there's a lot of
barriers there. And not everyone has the same
risk level as you said. Like, you know, it's easier when
you're younger as well to, like,go, oh, well, I'll take a risk
and I'll put all my money in. But if you're married or you
have a mortgage or a family or you have other circumstances,
it's really hard to take that risk.
So, you know, it's unfortunately, yeah, we're
praising people out of the arts.But, you know, it's still good
(26:20):
that we have things like the French.
Just hope we can go back to whatthey're kind of meant to be
originally. It's good that people like
yourself are thinking about that.
Yeah, well it's an uncomfortableride as well.
Like when we were doing our first few festivals, we'd all be
sharing like, I don't know, it'dbe six or seven of us to one
(26:41):
bedroom and which there'd be 1 bed and some sleeping bags and
it would be pretty and a queue for the toilet that was like
half an hour long. So it's kind of a grim, grim
start. And you're more likely to go
through that discomfort with a positive attitude if you've,
yeah, got a bit less to lose. Like we were quite young when we
(27:02):
were doing that. We were probably fresh out of
uni so I probably wasn't used tothe comforts that I am now with
my flattener mortgage and a nicemattress.
You know, we were quite happy togo through that discomfort I
think, but we have certainly paid our dues on that.
I don't want to share a bedroom anymore with six other people
(27:22):
I'd quite liked. I've got to the age now, I'd
quite like to just have my own room.
And that's not too much to ask for.
You know, it's mad how it is. But no, it is a yeah.
Hopefully these sort of opportunities can, can lead to,
you know, more chances for people to get into the arts And
yeah, hopefully I don't know what the solution to the fringe.
(27:44):
I mean, this comes up every yearin the run up to it.
We have people on to promote stuff for the fringe and their
tours and it just every year seems to be getting worse.
So I, I honestly don't know whatthe solution is there.
Someone once suggested they do like a pig art as a village and
it's just really cheap. But I mean, that'd be an amazing
idea. It'd be good for the city as
well. I think a lot, a lot of the
locals, I used to live there, lived there for 9 years, but I
think a lot of the locals would love that as well because they
(28:05):
get quite frustrated with the Airbnb issue and there's a lot
of profiteering that goes on. But I want to speak to you,
yeah, about your game show stuffand like your background that.
So tell us how you got into doing that and how you ended up
sort of working TV and stuff andentertainment.
Yeah, it was really by chance I was coming to the end of my
biochemistry degree at Bristol and I was like, oh, I don't
(28:28):
really know what to do with my life as I'm sure it's like a
normal student feeling right to have those crises where you're
like, Oh no, I don't know who I am yet.
I'm not a fully formed person. And luckily I had a friend that
recommended a science and media production course as a masters
and was like, hey, you probably I was doing improv at the time.
(28:52):
I was relative. I hopefully still am relatively
creative. And they were like, you should
do this. Yeah, telly course for
scientists. I think you'd enjoy it.
I think that's such about it. That's cool.
I didn't even know those sort ofcourse that existed, but that's
cool. Yeah, it's, there was one at
Imperial College, but there's a couple now about and I think
there's one in Salford. So I, I did this masters and I
(29:16):
learnt how to make radio and TV and like curate museum exhibits
and we did a bit of science journalism and stuff like that
as well. And I ended up working and it
gave you some work experience. I started working on some
documentaries and then I swiftlygrew a bit bored of that.
(29:39):
And documentaries were not quitedoing it for me in the sense
that I was just a, a young researcher, the sort of doing
all of this research on the Internet, but never really going
to any of these places. So I worked on a show called
River Monsters where they film big scary fish.
Yeah, it's it's seen one before all around the world in
(30:01):
different rivers. Yeah.
So. But I was never the one that
went out the nerd in the office on the Internet.
And here's some interesting facts about string rays.
And I grew so tired of that. And I had other friends in TV
that worked in different areas that were already in studio
(30:24):
meeting celebrities, doing exciting stuff.
And I applied for a role in development after doing a bit of
work on one show that was sort of the little videos on one
show. And, and that was when improv
really entered my TV world. And I was like, I'm really good
with coming up with games. I yes.
(30:44):
And in Brainstorms, I'm a real positive thinker.
I can think on my feet as well. And I can take an idea and take
it left or right. And they took me on RDF and I
started working in entertainmentdevelopment and that's when I
got into quiz and game share from there coming up with quiz
and game share formats. And they just then I think a
(31:06):
couple of maybe a year back or two years back commissioned
Tipping Point and they were looking for another quiz.
And we spent a lot of time working on game shows and other
fact ENT formats. And from them, I just ended up
getting more game share development jobs and then more
game share production jobs, which is a really weird sort of
sidestep, but I loved it. I had such a passion for the
(31:27):
game element that I used to. And I I love a run through as
well. A run through is a performance,
an office performance. What better what, what better
way to spend your day at work than do a run through?
I was overjoyed with them. So yeah, I found a real passion
with that. What was your favorite game that
(31:48):
you sort of helped come up with or show that you may have worked
on on that? Oh my gosh.
Well, when I was working at Remarkable, we were coming up
with Richard Dozman's House of Games.
So I've come up with a few gamesfor that show which made it onto
the series, which was really fun.
So yeah, there was, I can't remember the names of any of
(32:10):
these things because they all change names by the time they're
air, you air. But I there was one where you
sort of had to stand up. You were.
Each person was given an answer and you had to sort of stand up.
If you thought it was you, you were You were the answer.
And there was one where you tooksomeone's name and you had to
find the answer within their name and stuff.
(32:34):
That's cool. No, it's an interesting, it's an
area I don't know a lot about because you know, drama is very
different. I know we still do a bit of
entertainment work as well and stuff, but how how are you
finding that part of the industry?
Because I sort of know that TV is struggling a lot of the
moment and that area has sort ofbeen Hick as well, quite hard,
factual and entertainment. And I've had a lot of cuts and
(32:55):
stuff. Have you found it OK?
Has that affected you? Do you know people that are sort
of out working things? Yeah, loads, loads those people
out of work and it's so seasonal.
There's something for quiz showsespecially.
There were not still being made,which was nice, but there was a
quiet period towards the end of 20 where there just didn't have
(33:19):
been much play. You periods myself as well.
And it's been rough. And you start to question
whether you're in the whether you're in the right career and
what could you possibly do. But it has come back.
Luckily there's been a lot of quiz shows made in 2025 already,
so it's been nice to see resurgence a bit and I've been
(33:41):
very lucky with getting work so far.
So yeah. Good to know.
I, I feel you heavily though in that questioning what the hell
am I doing that you know, No, I feel that a lot just now the
show, our work has actually beencancelled by BBC Scotland.
So, you know, we've got till next April and then it's like,
well, you know what I mean? So it's a weird time and it's
happening across the industry. And again, like I was talking
(34:03):
about with the people being praised to the arts, I just
think it's important to be honest.
But I don't want, you know, it may appear from the outside that
you're smashing it and stuff, but not, you know, everyone's
got stuff going on and you know,it's never always
straightforward. How do you cope with the sort of
uncertainty of working in this industry though?
Because obviously you do, you'vegot loads of different skills
and stuff which probably helps. But are you someone that finds
that OK, or do you find that tricky?
(34:24):
No, I hate it. How do you how do you cope with
it? I have a terrible time.
I just, it's like, especially I'm often unemployed in, in
winter, so it's like December, January time and it gets dark at
like 4:00 PM and if you're stillin your pyjamas at 1:00 PM,
you're like Rick, I've only got 3 hours of daylight.
So yeah, I'm absolutely good formotivation.
(34:48):
I guess I the only way I found to care around it, and this is
not a relatable way. I booked a holiday in in a time
I knew I would be unemployed. So I went away at the beginning
of January and it was nice, although incredibly frightening
financially. But maybe that was like the
(35:09):
adrenaline rush I needed. Oh God, can I have this meal
out? But now I, I coped terribly.
I have no advice for anyone. In fact, please give me advice
on how to get through any of that uncertainty.
It's terrible. I have a very similar answer.
(35:31):
No completely. I, I'm not very good at all.
And but again, I, I, I don't think I know this is an advice,
but maybe that is comforting forthe people that they are like,
OK, it's all right to feel like that way about it.
And you know, this is an incredibly scary and uncertain.
No for sure. Well, I kind of want to talk to
you a bit more about your show then in in general.
There's a like, obviously you'reon tour just now and then you're
(35:52):
returning to the fringe. So do you want to give us a bit?
You kind of touched on what the show is a little bit and told us
it's improv and you know, it's kind of Agatha Christie and it's
like improvised stuff. But do you want to tell us a bit
more about it and also tell us where you're going on tour,
where people can see it, etcetera?
Yeah, sure. So.
And the show's called murder. She didn't write.
It's an improvised murder mystery, Agatha Christie style,
(36:17):
where we make up a completely different murder for you to
solve every night and you're 1 member of the audience who's
chosen at random by the throwingof a hat becomes Jerkins, the
detective's sidekick, and they pick where the murder takes
(36:39):
place. Also who dies and who did it?
So they can either pick up random if they want to play
along too, although the victim does become pretty apparent
about halfway through, or if they want to be to kill someone
off or make someone the murderer.
Then they it's up to them, they can do it, and it's up to the
rest of the audience to guess. Hopefully it's but it's also
(37:03):
comedy. So even if you're not a big
murder mystery fan, at the end of the day it's a comedy.
A comedy show with lots of sort of farcical fun bits.
And yeah, we're on tour and thenwe're heading to the Edinburgh
Fringe. We're back our spiritual home.
So yeah, we'll be at the Gordon Aikman Theatre, all Fringe, all
(37:25):
month, all of August. So yeah, that's, that's the
show. We do have dates.
I should know them, but I'm not 100% sure where this is going
out well. Neither am I to be in in all
honesty. This is, you know, getting see
behind the carton listeners. This is how we, you know, record
lots of episodes and then we work out how to release them.
But there is links below in the show notes right now.
(37:46):
So if you want to go and find out more about Lizzie's show
whenever this is dropping probably in the next few weeks
from recording. But you know, you can find out
more about the tour and the Fringe, etcetera, Go and see the
show. And you can subscribe and
follow, you know, Lizzie and hervarious companies and shows,
etcetera on social media as well.
All the details are below. And please subscribe to the
(38:07):
podcast as well. Yeah, below.
The classic thing they all do babbling, but they're used to
it. I also, yeah, I want to ask you
as well about because a lot of people listening go to the
Friends, they maybe want to takea show to the Fringe.
What are your sort of tips? I mean, we touched on the
unaffordability of it earlier, but what are your tips for
people that maybe want to take ashow to the Fringe be or take a
(38:29):
show on tour? So book your accommodation
early, like really early. We've had we've lost
accommodation because to early enough in also look after
(38:51):
yourself both mentally and physically.
If you're there for the whole month, that's a lot and I think
a lot of performers burn out. I certainly have on my early
fringes because you're all excited and you're surrounded by
other performers. So you have a few late nights
and then look after your mind and body and book accommodation
early and avoid the Royal Mile. That's an anxiety dream, I
(39:18):
think. To be fair, it's hard to get
around the whole city half the time.
Hello, it's Jamie here. I hope you're enjoying this
week's episode. It's just a quick one for me to
say that if you're listening to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or
whatever platform you engage with our show on, be sure to
give us a follow or a subscribe as it goes a long way into
helping us grow and find new listeners as well as helping you
(39:40):
keep up with all the latest episodes and everything that's
happening. I just get a real job.
You can also support us by subscribing to our patron page
for the price of a cup of coffeeper month.
All the money we make goes back into the upkeep of the podcast.
Thank you for your continued support and we hope you enjoy
the rest of today's episode. Thank you for your answering
(40:01):
your question. But the French, but I want to
sort of ask you about like the biggest lesson you've maybe
learned in your career. And I know you've worked in
various different aspects of thecreative industry as well, from
your performing, taking stuff tothe fringe and also your game
show stuff. But like, what's your sort of
what would your biggest lesson be so far?
Oh, I think one of the, and it'ssomething I've have to tell
(40:28):
myself regularly, is you're really are your own harshest
critic on the whole. And I've done loads of gigs both
in TV and in on stage. And a lot of time you go, well,
that's terrible. I'm, I've, they must have
noticed that I had, you know, that I had a stain on my top or
(40:53):
I, like, stumbled over this or got this wrong.
And I kind of think everyone is always focused on what they're
doing. And you should kind of be kind
to yourself and realise that. Yeah.
But you are your own. You notice things about you that
are rather than other people. So.
Yeah. And that's translated across in
(41:15):
both, Yeah, theatre and TV. Be kind to yourself, which is, I
know, very vague, but it is in an industry where you don't
have, there's not a lot of performance review, if you know
what I mean, other than actual reviews.
It's quite easy to forget that like you know you're doing it,
(41:36):
so so be kind to yourself. I know, yeah.
No, completely. I, I think we are often our
harshest critics. And I think as well, you get so
caught up in what you're doing is that you forget that three
years ago you sort of think, yousay to yourself, I've achieved
these things, or if I did this, that would make me happy.
And then you do those things andit doesn't actually make you as
(41:58):
happy as you think it would because then you're just
thinking of the next thing or you just think you didn't do it
well enough. So it's a, it's a really hard
self fulfilling prophecy almost that yeah, it's really tricky.
I struggle at the most. No matter how much evidence you
you build for yourself, you can always find a way to be like
wasn't good enough. Yeah, exactly.
(42:19):
Which is mad really, because youcan't do anything 100% perfect
all of the time. I mean, that is an improv thing.
You'll never be 100% perfect, but it's over.
Like each, each thing is a fleeting moment.
I guess you work in the other side.
You work because you're in scripted.
You're like, yeah, how do you deal with having the permanency
(42:45):
of script and film? I mean, even then though, like
once you you shoot something on a budget, do you know what I
mean around time limit? So sometimes you you get the
shot. I mean, I'm not really on set
too often because I'm behind thescenes more.
But like at the end of the day, like you run at a time, the
scripts as good as it can be, but you're always something
could always be better. Same with the podcast, like you
(43:08):
put it out, it exists forever. You know, listen back to
episodes from like 4 years ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, then
I put that out. That's cringey.
But at the same time, that's where I was then.
And like, you know, you kind of learn and like, you know, I
think it's just accepting that it's similar in some ways.
It's it's done. You know, I technically could go
back and delete things, I suppose.
And the way that you can't do itfor live performance, but you
(43:30):
know, it's, I try, I kind of treat it the same way.
Like it is permanent, but you know, it's done in in in the
sense of like that period of your life, that bit of
creativity, like, you know, in the same way as show and you
know, that's the experience of it as well.
It's a little bit, I mean, the biggest lesson I've maybe
learned in my creative ways thatit's actually about enjoying
(43:52):
this part of it instead of thinking all the time about what
didn't go right or what worryingabout the future or, I don't
know. It's just actually trying to
enjoy this part instead of thinking like, if I just get to
this thing, that'll make me happy and then you do it and it
doesn't normally. So I think just being like
trying to enjoy what this is, but that is really tricky to do.
So yeah, it's hard. Yeah, we have it with, I mean,
(44:17):
yeah, none of our well, and hopefully none of our shows are
really ever sort of recorded. So sometimes you have a moment
of genius and you have a moment they're like, you're like, I
should have did that differently, but they're all
gone. So you never have the permanency
of like a great moment being captured, but you also never
have a moment where you're like,I misspoke and said this wrong
(44:39):
or like I didn't say that 100% correctly.
And that is also gone. So it's like both sides of that.
But I also think those both those things are equally
important in different ways because you learn from the
mistakes as much as it's great to do a good moment, but like
you need, you need both and bothare special as well.
That's the whole point and beingcreative and putting yourself
out there. It's both those things.
(45:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And be happy with both of those
things, right? Yeah, I've tried to as best you
can. Yeah, well, there's I've got one
more question for you, which is just that we always get our
guest to end on sort of wrap up and sort of what their advice
maybe would be to someone who wanted to do what they do.
So what would your advice be to anyone wanting to either become
(45:22):
a performer to a show or maybe they want to go and work and
game shows or be a researcher ona documentary that you used to
do or anything like that? What would your advice be to
them? Well, my advice is, I mean, I'm
a person that came up with a show, cast myself in it, and
then continue to tour it around.And I think don't wait for
(45:48):
opportunities. I, I thought, you know, you can
audition for things and not get them, but you can always start
your own thing and put yourself in it.
And I think that's also true of TV.
If you don't get on one of the schemes or you don't get that
job, then it is also fine to make your own.
And, you know, that is kind of the direction we're going
(46:10):
anyway. So you don't have to wait to be
recognised by authorities or, ora certain level.
You can just make your own thing.
And it's worked for me so far. And it means I haven't had to go
to drama school or learn how to act.
I can just be funny with my friends on stage.
(46:32):
And, and that's sort of equally as, as valid.
And I don't need to sort of, yeah, I, I can just, you know
what? That's how I've got better and
better by doing, by doing it myself rather than waiting to be
taught or waiting to sort of be accepted.
And you have a science degree aswell, which is quite, you know,
a bit different for a lot of people working in the arts.
(46:54):
If there's ever a scientist character in a murder mystery,
I'll love it. I'll love to be the scientist.
I was a scientist on gluten. I think in, in a most recent
show, a French gluten scientist.And yeah, it just, it's just
enjoyable to make stuff up. You can.
(47:16):
You'd found a niche market for yourself to to aim at, so you
know it's cool. Yeah, exactly.
There you go. But yeah, my biggest advice is
you don't don't wait for opportunities that just make it
and have fun doing it. Because otherwise, yeah, there's
there's not enough opportunities.
So you've can't make it yourself, I think.
(47:36):
And if. You're going to share a room
with six people with the friends, you may as well try and
enjoy the shows you're doing andall that stuff, eh?
Thank you. Why don't you just do it for
your friends? It's way more fun.
Well, Lizzie, thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate you sticking and wemade it work third time round
and stuff as well very quickly before we wrap up, just to
remind people, there's obviouslylinks to all the shows and, and
your work and the show notes. But is there anything you'd seen
(47:58):
or you want to plug or show other shows that people you know
and like you want to quickly plug while you're here?
Oh my goodness, who else do I recommend?
I always like the incredibly talented elf lions.
She always brings the show up and it's always truly sublime.
There's a lot of other great improv out there.
(48:19):
And if you don't see Murder She didn't Write, please give other
improv another go because they're so broad and I think
it's really good to see. Oh God, I should probably name
something specific, but Jacuzzi are always great.
Oh my goodness, there's spontaneous.
Spontaneous Potter are really fun.
(48:41):
Oh my goodness, who else is going?
Yeah, loads, loads. But yeah, I would I would
recommend if you go to the fringe to take a punt on
something new and just see. Right.
Well, Lizzie, thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate it and good luck with the rest of the tour.
And I look forward to seeing your show at the Fringe as well.
Thanks, it was lovely chatting to you, it was much less scary
(49:02):
than I thought it was going to be.
Very glad.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Just Get a
Real Job podcast with your host,me, Jamie McKinley.
I hope you're all having a greatweek and.
Thank you as. Always for tuning in to the
show, I'm thrilled to welcome onthe show this week Lizzie Script
Yet, who is the artistic director of Degrees of Error and
is one of the performers and director of the hit show Murder
(00:27):
She Didn't Write, which is currently on tour and we'll be
returning to the Edinburgh Fringe again this year.
I think that show has been goingfor something mad like 13 years
or something. So it's a highly popular show
and as well as being someone that performs in all these
shows, Lizzie also works in the entertainment and factual space
in TV, working on many popular game shows including Bridge of
(00:49):
Lies and Ant and Dec Limitless win.
So it was really interesting to chat to her about that side of
the creative industry as well. We had a really nice
conversation about lots of things including touring,
performing somewhere, let Edinburgh Fringe, how that's
changed over the years, improv and many other things.
It was a great chat and a pleasure to have Lizzie on the
show very quickly. Before we get into this week's
(01:09):
episode as well, I just wanted to plug that we are going to be
doing a live podcast in Glasgow on the 22nd of June.
Very excited for this. We're doing a sort of panel in
collaboration with a company called And Friends, which is
run. By a previous.
Podcast guest Katrina McLeod, who we had on a couple of years
ago. Yeah.
So we're doing a live event. It's going to be a panel about
(01:31):
independent filmmaking and how that's all working in 2025.
We've got a brilliant panel lined up for that.
We haven't announced them all yet, but I'll be more info on
that coming on the podcast soon.So keep an eye on our social
media channels. But tickets are on sale for that
now and there's a link to that in the show notes.
Anyway, thank you as always for tuning in to the podcast.
(01:51):
I hope you enjoy Episode 170. Just get a real job.
(02:11):
Lizzie, how's it going? Lovely to have you on the
podcast again, just and the listeners don't really need to
know this, but just we'll just tell them anyway.
But this is our our kind of third attempt to try to record
because we did start chatting a few weeks ago and then we had
some tech issues and then last week you had some horrible
flooding and we're going to makethis work.
(02:31):
So thank you for coming on the show.
We've finally, yeah, it's finally happened.
The stars have aligned, but I amexpecting where I am to flood
almost immediately. I'm looking around.
I'm just double checking it'll. Be flooded at any moment.
And where are you speaking from us to us from today?
(02:53):
Like you did you say you're in Winchester.
Yeah, so we've got, we've got two nights at the Winchester
Theatre Royal before a short break of a couple of days in the
tour and then we're off up north.
We're going to Coventry and lotsof other different places on our
tour. So yeah, it's nice.
And when you get to stay somewhere a few days, you do
(03:13):
kind of get to see a bit of the local area, because we're often
sort of in the back of a theatre, out the back of a
theatre in a van. So you see a lot of motorways,
but not necessarily a lot of thecities where we go.
So yeah, it's lovely, very charming.
I've seen a lot of bunting. I'd say more bunting than you'd
(03:34):
expect to see of a city, but yeah, very lovely.
I always find the word, I don't know why, but the word bunting
always amuses me. It's just such a strange word
and quite, yeah. It's very quiet, isn't it?
Bunting bunting and ginger beer.I suppose we should actually
introduce you to the list, though.
So do you want to quickly introduce yourself?
(03:55):
Of course, you know you're on tour with Murder She is it
Murder She didn't write, it's called.
Yeah, Murder She didn't write. We didn't write it because it's
completely unscripted. So yes, I'm, this is Skippy.
I'm director and and performer in Murder She Didn't Write, also
known as Detective Agatha Crusty.
(04:16):
If I'm solving the crimes ratherthan causing them and and yeah,
that we're on we're on tour of the UK, but I'm also ATV
questions producer and in part of my life so.
But I've recently moved over into sort of a lot more theatre,
which I've been doing for many years.
So yeah. It's a juggle.
(04:37):
No, thank you for, well, thank you for introducing yourself,
Lizzie as well. And of course you involved in
quite a lot of improv things in Bristol as well that you've sort
of run a company there for that.And it'll be interesting to talk
to you about your sort of day job, you know, working on, you
know, game shows and question shows and stuff and talk to you
about your sort of other, your other life moving into theatre
(04:58):
as a performer and how that all works as well.
But I suppose a good place to start is we I've always been
interested in the arts. Like what are your sort of early
memories? Were you always into creative
things? Did you always like game shows?
That was where does those also stem from?
Yeah, I don't know, I I'm a bit of a science nerd.
(05:24):
Yeah, I was always into my science stuff and I did like a
science. But I think sometimes when you
have these like quite straight laced pursuits, you, you kind of
desire doing more and more sillystuff maybe in your spare time.
(05:45):
So I have always been a bit silly and A and a bit stupid, I
think in my spare time. So yeah, I've always done a lot
of performing really, even throughout university.
That was when I discovered improv and it helps with my
slightly terrible memory at times.
I think I was enamoured with this art form where you didn't
(06:07):
have to learn a script or remember any lines, you could
just make stuff up, which is my main criticism when I used to do
bitter anyway, was it's close enough to the line, which I used
to think made directors really upset with me when you didn't
don't say things exactly right. And then there's suddenly this
art form where you can say whatever you like.
(06:29):
So I think, yeah, I've always enjoyed doing.
There's always been a bit of improv to me.
I guess you just there's a word for it.
And then uni was when I started doing it a lot more with my
time. I think so, yeah.
You've always been a bit. Silly.
It's interesting with improv because I mean at my day job I
edit scripts for TV and it's very structured when you edit a
(06:53):
script. And when I've seen, I've seen
quite a lot of improv this week.And what I find interesting
about it is for me watching it is like the total opposite.
So like there is no rules as such.
I know there is an art form and you learn and we make a talk a
bit about what improv is and stuff because we haven't had a
lot of people involved in improvon the podcast before.
And I think it's very much a growing medium in the UK.
And there's things like SNL and,you know, come into the UK as
(07:15):
well and, you know, as you're, you're on tour of an improv show
and, you know, that's popular and stuff.
So I mean, it's interesting to talk about.
But yeah, it's so like differentto what the sort of mediums of
art that I maybe grew up watching are in some ways.
So, you know, as an interesting medium.
And it is quite silly. And it must be freeing to be
able to be silly like that on stage because I think I'd
probably take myself slightly too seriously to to do improv.
(07:39):
I don't know. You can't take yourself
seriously, I think, and do improv.
It's it's not possible really. It gives, it gives you a couple
of things like there are rules to it which I can always give
into. But like it is very freeing to
go on stage and feel comfortableknowing you'll always say
something. And when we do our show, we are
(08:00):
on stage with five other people and you're all going to say
something. And if you don't say something,
someone else will say something.So you sort of always supported
Internet, I think. And because you're on stage with
so many other people, that is five agents of chaos, that if
you have a plan and want to do something serious, they will
ruin it on purpose for fun. And I also find it fun to ruin
(08:25):
other people's plans or serious moments.
So I think, yeah, it it makes you less and less serious.
Or certainly with our group withmurder, she didn't run it.
So yeah, you go on stage, you might have these ideas of a rich
character you might like to play, but someone walks on and
they're like, ah, yes, Francescothe Spanish musician is here or
(08:48):
the, and you go, OK, bye. Or someone a bit, you come on
looking rather regal and they'relike, ah, it's grandma.
And you're suddenly a completelydifferent character.
So you've got to roll with the punches, I think.
It's interesting. Well, there's obviously I want
to talk to you about your quid stuff and like working and on
that side of TV as well 'cause Ithink he's interested in some of
(09:10):
our listeners who may want to work in factual or
entertainment, that side of things.
But while we're sort of on improv, I think it's an
interesting thing 'cause we'd, we had someone who's like
started a company in Glasgow with Glasgow and Profio and we
had them on last week on the show.
And who knows what order these episodes are going out.
And so that might not have actually dropped for the
listeners yet. Who knows?
(09:31):
But what was interesting to talkabout was the medium itself.
As I touched on, it's a growing medium.
So just for any listeners that might not know much about
improv, because I do think in the UK, there's quite a
stereotype of it. You know, we think of it as an
Americanized comedy form. And a lot of people have only
seen it maybe on TV or like, youknow, have a very vague
understanding of it. So I suppose in very simple
(09:53):
terms like how would you describe improv?
So, yeah, it's, it's more for us, it's unscripted theatre.
So we go on a stage with no ideawhat's going to happen.
There are sort of a number of rules which you abide by, sort
of say yes, commit to the world,you make your stage part and
look good and stuff like that. And you always build yes.
(10:15):
And, and as long as you set 10 to adhere to those rules, you'll
probably do a good scene. But yeah, it's going on stage
and acting and reacting when youdon't know what's going to
happen. So you can take it down a more
theatrical route if you like, like we try to.
Or you could take it down a morecomedy route and there's sort of
(10:37):
more scenes. And if you've seen stuff like
Whose Line Is it anyway? Or anything like that, then
you're sort of seeing it in its short form, like sketchy
context. But we take it in the form where
we do a whole play, we do a whole murder mystery.
So you you wouldn't come on and be like, my name is the crazy
(10:58):
shop owner, Mr. Big Lips and I've got, you know, whatever
you'll you've got to have a a deeper character that lasts the
whole show. So you'll sort of you've got
less of these gag characters andstuff.
That's a bit deeper, I think. So yeah, that's that's what it
(11:20):
is to us. That's improv.
And have you sort of found yourself sort of starting at a
uni and, and continuing to do itafterwards and, and now, you
know, doing it more professionally?
Have you, do you think it has grown as a medium?
Do you think it's become more popular and you know?
Well, in the time that I've beendoing it, I've started to see
more of it on the West End, and I started to see more of it on
(11:41):
TV. So going by that, I'd say yes.
So there's lots of like other improv groups that have sort of
paved the way that like show stoppers, they do an improvised
musical. They're on the West End and
you've got Ostentatious that do improvise Jane Austen novels.
They're on the West End and you've got you had Murder in
Successful, which is an improv format on BBC Three and I think
(12:06):
Yeah. And and whose line's still been
going. So there's and even at the
Fringe, you start to see the Edinburgh Fringe is something we
do every year. You start to see more and more
improv shows each year and they return and they're bigger and
they're fully bigger venues. So I would say from from that
aspect, yeah, it's growing, and it's growing in popularity.
At the beginning of every one ofour shows, I ask if people have
(12:29):
either seen our show or an improv show before.
And over the years, the cheers have got bigger and bigger, even
in some of the most unusual places where you think there
might not be a lot of improv, but actually people have still
heard of it. So I would say it's growing,
yeah. How long have you been doing
murder She didn't right now for like it's you've been to the
(12:50):
fringe of Utah. Is this how many years are you
on for the show now for? This show we're probably nearing
13 years. I'm clearly overlooked by my
research. To be fair, Liz, I didn't quite
realize it was that long. Last Man.
I know I'm actually old, so it is.
True, I've just done a backhanded compliment somewhere
(13:12):
I feel. But no, it's.
Fine. So yeah, we've been doing it a
long time. This will be our 11th Edinburgh
Fringe with the show, and obviously it's a couple of years
off for COVID, so yeah, that's along time to be doing the same
show. It's got to be enjoyable,
otherwise you wouldn't do it right.
Is it the same team that you've always done it with, or is it
sort of swapped throughout the years?
(13:32):
Is it sort of changed and adapted?
It's changed a bit, but there are some people that have been
in it since the beginning. So I've been in it since the
beginning, as has Steve and Caitlin has been in.
So there are three of us from the beginning, some of us for
about 6 or 7 years. So you know, there's and there's
some new people as well. But, but even when I say new
(13:54):
people, I'm still talking in thenumbers of years.
So we're incredibly close and weare a group of friends as much
as we are a group of actors, I would say.
Which is important. And I think again, what I like
about the medium is that you have to be, I mean, teamwork's
important across the arts and collaborations are important
across the arts. I don't think you can make a
career in this industry without being able to get on with people
(14:16):
not being an asshole and and be able to work as a team.
But I do think particularly in something like improv, you need
to work as a team, don't you? Because you kind of like saving
each other on stage all the time.
It's like it's, I suppose I don't fear as well, but I think
particularly in this you have tobe very trusting because you
have to trust something to take,you know, take a show of the
specific direction etcetera. Oh, exactly.
(14:37):
And also we do stuff on stage topurposely bring enjoyment to
each other. So, you know, if you're going to
make a joke, why not make a jokethat really makes your scene
partner almost break the character?
So yeah, the each member of Murder She Didn't Mind has, you
know, things they enjoy places that they're from and that and
(15:00):
you just want to sort of make them laugh, really.
And also we do pimp each other. So pimping is a thing where you
might be like, oh grandfather, sing us that famous song you
love to sing or something like that.
And suddenly the person on stagehas to sing a song or something
like that. So we often try and pimp each
other with things that we'll we know that they'll enjoy, or we
(15:23):
know that they won't enjoy if we're being mischievous.
Now that is always fun is what'sthe sort of have you ever pushed
it? What's that the furthest that
maybe ever pushed on stage? Have you ever managed to get
like a Co performer to like do something a bit mental or?
So people have done it to me. So we've had a few.
(15:45):
I didn't just do one, but one was where my dear friend Peter
Baker, I played this sort of woman of the Manor.
She like was pretty old and had unusual habits And and then
Peter brought on my midnight snack and handed it to me and
was like a midnight snack Madam.And that was a candle.
(16:06):
So I was like, challenge accepted.
So I ate a candle on stage. Very dedicated.
Yeah, it was gross. It was really gross.
I'd read wax between my teeth for hours after that show.
I was like kicking it out. And we, we, you know, we, we
sort of sometimes pimp each other to speak different
(16:28):
languages or yeah, or say that in Latin or something like that.
And depending on who it is depends on how much they enjoy
that specific pimp. Well, we'll talk about the show
and the dates and stuff in a bitmore detail.
I want also kind of want to ask you where you're from and how
that's also influenced you as a correct pest.
(16:49):
I'm always interested in people where they, you know, their
origins or where they grew up and how it's like had an impact
on where they are now. Yeah, I'm from Basildon in
Essex, so there's not a thrivingarts culture there.
There is a hell of an industrialestate which has a, a big
Nando's and a nightclub, which got me through my, my master's
(17:15):
through giving me various jobs and stuff.
But no, there's not a big arts culture there.
But it's near London. So I, I used to sometimes travel
in to sort of get various bits of culture.
But yeah, so it's, I think you, you sort of, I had to sort of
reach out to find it because, yeah, there wasn't a lot going
(17:37):
on in my local area. So although we do, yeah.
So I wonder how that sort of influenced who I am today.
I don't know really. Although I did grow up on stuff
like you, Peter Cook and Dudley Moore and Monty Python and sort
of French and Saunders frying Lorry, so a lot of sketch and
stuff. I always used to listen to bits
(17:58):
and bobs like that and watch that on the TV.
So TV was a big part of my my comedy Bones, I think.
It's interesting how much sketch, stand up, and improv all
tie into each other as well because they are very different,
but they are kind of all. They share a lot of some
overlapping similarities like, so it's interesting that you
(18:20):
know, watching stuff like that would influence your own
performance and style and stuff as well.
Oh yeah, I'm sure like there wassome very sort of silly
characters that would would absolutely fit in to sort of a
Monty Python sketch or somethinglike that.
And I think that builds your your idea on what comedy is.
(18:40):
And it was also nice to see thatyou may be not to be
disrespectful to any of those works because they have a
special place in my heart. But it was nice to see you don't
have to be so great at acting todo some of this stuff.
And actually you just have to have the enjoyment there.
So I one of the things I used tolove is when Peter Cook made
Dudley Moore laugh in and break character in a sketch.
(19:04):
And I'd be like, that is so unprofessional and so funny.
I used to love it. So I used to sometimes watch
Dudley Moore chuckling into a sandwich or something, playing
these two old men on the bench. And I would be like, oh, I can't
wait to. I want to try and make someone
else break character or someone try and make me break character.
So yeah. There is something very like
(19:26):
it's just joyous about watching someone laugh either at
themselves or from someone else on stage.
Because obviously even if you'reinvested in a show that it's
just, I don't know if makes for like seeing someone laughing
because and getting so into their own thing is just very
it's very enjoyable. And I don't, I think most
audiences are quite forgiven of that.
They don't mind like, you know, they're invested in the show,
(19:47):
but they don't mind if somebody's laughing as well.
Well, I'm a good time. I hope so.
Well, I also think if you're watching an improv show, you're
watching 2 shows, right? You're watching the show, the
characters and the murder. Well, for us, it's a murder
mystery and they're watching that, but they're also watching.
5 improvises, well, six including the pianist, 7
including our tech, you know, who are making stuff up on stage
(20:10):
and sort of there's the interpersonal stuff there that
we're doing to sort of throw each under under the bus or make
surprise each other and make each other laugh.
So they're also enjoying that level of the theatre I think,
which is almost like sport, I think sometimes, you know, Or
how will they deal with that comment?
What will they say to this? So I think yeah, you're watching
(20:32):
2 shows. No, for sure.
I I'm also curious like being inthe scene and stuff like how do
you feel about someone like SNL coming to the UK?
Like do you think that would be good for the UK?
Do you think it's a good will begood for the scene?
Do you think it might work here and stuff?
I know you also work in entertainment on TV as well, so
you might have like a an opinionfrom that side of things too.
(20:53):
Well, I hope we'll get to watch it because it is on Sky, so it
it's a shame. I'd have loved to have seen it
on one of the terrestrial channels that you get for free.
But yeah, it's, I mean, any, anyvehicle like that is going to be
opportunity. So I think it'd be great.
I'd love to see how it turns out.
(21:13):
One of the things I dislike about some American improv, and
I must say some there's some incredible American improv, but
I'm a lot of people used to see it.
Perhaps this is a day to view asa way to get to SNL as just a
stepping stone. And that's not, hey, hey man,
(21:35):
that's my whole art form. That's not a stepping stone.
That's a valid thing in itself. So a lot of people would just do
improv to get somewhere else, like a course.
And actually, I think it's more than that.
I think it's a whole thing that you can go and see the theatre
and it's a great experience. So I think I can't see it having
(21:56):
that bigger impact on improv, killing the art form.
But yeah, I think it'd be good. I'd love to see how it turns
out. And I hope they keep it.
Well, they will, you know, They'll keep it free and fun, I
think. Yeah, and hopefully give new
performers a chance as well. I mean, there was, it was on the
rest as entertainment. They did a segment about it and
(22:17):
Richard Osmond seemed pretty confident that they would.
It would be very good to sort ofgive grassroots comics and
performers and improvisers like a chance to, to maybe be on
telly for the first time and notjust have the same names.
So fingers crossed that can do that 'cause I do think we need
more mediums like that. Even sketches in the UK we
don't, I don't there isn't a huge amount of sketch shows.
(22:38):
I mean, there's a few smaller ones in Scotland, there's a few,
you know, shows that you, you know, you referenced a few
earlier even they feel like the,some of the more recent ones
like you had like Mitchell and Webb and stuff.
But there's not a lot of sketch stuff really in the mainstream.
It's a sort of narrow route in if, if.
I mean, not everyone does comedyto get on TV.
Some people just do it for to perform live and and that vibe
(23:01):
of it. But there were a few routes into
TV and you could either do a bitof mock the week.
You could be one of the less famous guests on mock the week.
You could be one of the less famous guests on Have I Got News
For You, or you could be one of the less famous guests, sort of
another panel show really. And those panel shows were a way
(23:21):
of you condensing your entire comedy career into 5 minutes.
You try and get all your gags out on TV and hopefully that
would give you another TV thing.But not all comedy is stand up,
like you said, like some a lot of it's sketch, some of it's
improv, some of it's just sort of clowning and there's not a
space for that to enter television.
(23:45):
So yeah, SNL could be a great other way to not just have
people say they're 5 minute condensed set, but actually to,
not that I'm sort of discrediting that that's works
incredibly well, but also to broaden it out and give other
performers a bit of screen time that don't just have the sort of
the the gags, they've got other types of comedy.
(24:07):
Yeah. And I think a lot of the other
one of the other sort of roots in is radio.
And radio also is great and it'sa brilliant medium.
So it's podcasting, but I suppose it's limiting as well
because you can't maybe improv and sketch are harder to do on
the radio than normal comedy. I don't know, I could be wrong.
But yeah, no, it's an, it's an interesting 1.
And that's not to mention all the other barriers that exist.
Like, you know, it's a very hardtime to work in the arts if you
(24:28):
don't come from some sort of financial privilege at the
moment. It's really hard to, you know,
pay your rent and work in the arts and.
Oh my goodness. I I could go on for days about
how it's. Yeah.
I mean, we used to put our own money up when we did early
fringe and you know, they, they say never risk your own money,
but it was a lot for us. You know, we'd put all of our
(24:49):
savings all, you know, all sort of back then it was there were
seven, you know, seven of us allput in everything we had into a
show. Not everyone's got savings.
So, you know, and not, and we not that we had a lot either.
So I think it's yeah, there's there'll be people out there
where the risk is less, you knowwhat I mean?
Whereas we had to make money. So we were flying day and night
(25:13):
because we knew that if we didn't make our money back, we
were kind of screwed. So and the and some of these
fringes and comedy festivals have got more and more and more
expensive the the Edinburgh Fringe being one of them.
That's crazy. Accommodation is.
It's just ridiculous. It's you're pricing.
We're pricing people out of the artist effectively.
And I, I, I, yeah, I feel like it's been, some of my listeners
(25:37):
might think it's been a bit of ableak year and I hope they don't
think I've gone all cynical. But I do think it's important to
talk about these issues. And we have to just be honest
with people. I think there's a magical
thinking in this industry where it's like, you'll make it and
you can, you know, everyone's going to be, you know, you just
keep working hard. And I think that is does bloody
help. Obviously you need to work hard
and put the graft in. But like, I don't think we
should just always lie to peopleeither and say that it's that
(25:59):
straightforward. I think there's a lot of
barriers there. And not everyone has the same
risk level as you said. Like, you know, it's easier when
you're younger as well to, like,go, oh, well, I'll take a risk
and I'll put all my money in. But if you're married or you
have a mortgage or a family or you have other circumstances,
it's really hard to take that risk.
So, you know, it's unfortunately, yeah, we're
praising people out of the arts.But, you know, it's still good
(26:20):
that we have things like the French.
Just hope we can go back to whatthey're kind of meant to be
originally. It's good that people like
yourself are thinking about that.
Yeah, well it's an uncomfortableride as well.
Like when we were doing our first few festivals, we'd all be
sharing like, I don't know, it'dbe six or seven of us to one
(26:41):
bedroom and which there'd be 1 bed and some sleeping bags and
it would be pretty and a queue for the toilet that was like
half an hour long. So it's kind of a grim, grim
start. And you're more likely to go
through that discomfort with a positive attitude if you've,
yeah, got a bit less to lose. Like we were quite young when we
(27:02):
were doing that. We were probably fresh out of
uni so I probably wasn't used tothe comforts that I am now with
my flattener mortgage and a nicemattress.
You know, we were quite happy togo through that discomfort I
think, but we have certainly paid our dues on that.
I don't want to share a bedroom anymore with six other people
(27:22):
I'd quite liked. I've got to the age now, I'd
quite like to just have my own room.
And that's not too much to ask for.
You know, it's mad how it is. But no, it is a yeah.
Hopefully these sort of opportunities can, can lead to,
you know, more chances for people to get into the arts And
yeah, hopefully I don't know what the solution to the fringe.
(27:44):
I mean, this comes up every yearin the run up to it.
We have people on to promote stuff for the fringe and their
tours and it just every year seems to be getting worse.
So I, I honestly don't know whatthe solution is there.
Someone once suggested they do like a pig art as a village and
it's just really cheap. But I mean, that'd be an amazing
idea. It'd be good for the city as
well. I think a lot, a lot of the
locals, I used to live there, lived there for 9 years, but I
think a lot of the locals would love that as well because they
(28:05):
get quite frustrated with the Airbnb issue and there's a lot
of profiteering that goes on. But I want to speak to you,
yeah, about your game show stuffand like your background that.
So tell us how you got into doing that and how you ended up
sort of working TV and stuff andentertainment.
Yeah, it was really by chance I was coming to the end of my
biochemistry degree at Bristol and I was like, oh, I don't
(28:28):
really know what to do with my life as I'm sure it's like a
normal student feeling right to have those crises where you're
like, Oh no, I don't know who I am yet.
I'm not a fully formed person. And luckily I had a friend that
recommended a science and media production course as a masters
and was like, hey, you probably I was doing improv at the time.
(28:52):
I was relative. I hopefully still am relatively
creative. And they were like, you should
do this. Yeah, telly course for
scientists. I think you'd enjoy it.
I think that's such about it. That's cool.
I didn't even know those sort ofcourse that existed, but that's
cool. Yeah, it's, there was one at
Imperial College, but there's a couple now about and I think
there's one in Salford. So I, I did this masters and I
(29:16):
learnt how to make radio and TV and like curate museum exhibits
and we did a bit of science journalism and stuff like that
as well. And I ended up working and it
gave you some work experience. I started working on some
documentaries and then I swiftlygrew a bit bored of that.
(29:39):
And documentaries were not quitedoing it for me in the sense
that I was just a, a young researcher, the sort of doing
all of this research on the Internet, but never really going
to any of these places. So I worked on a show called
River Monsters where they film big scary fish.
Yeah, it's it's seen one before all around the world in
(30:01):
different rivers. Yeah.
So. But I was never the one that
went out the nerd in the office on the Internet.
And here's some interesting facts about string rays.
And I grew so tired of that. And I had other friends in TV
that worked in different areas that were already in studio
(30:24):
meeting celebrities, doing exciting stuff.
And I applied for a role in development after doing a bit of
work on one show that was sort of the little videos on one
show. And, and that was when improv
really entered my TV world. And I was like, I'm really good
with coming up with games. I yes.
(30:44):
And in Brainstorms, I'm a real positive thinker.
I can think on my feet as well. And I can take an idea and take
it left or right. And they took me on RDF and I
started working in entertainmentdevelopment and that's when I
got into quiz and game share from there coming up with quiz
and game share formats. And they just then I think a
(31:06):
couple of maybe a year back or two years back commissioned
Tipping Point and they were looking for another quiz.
And we spent a lot of time working on game shows and other
fact ENT formats. And from them, I just ended up
getting more game share development jobs and then more
game share production jobs, which is a really weird sort of
sidestep, but I loved it. I had such a passion for the
(31:27):
game element that I used to. And I I love a run through as
well. A run through is a performance,
an office performance. What better what, what better
way to spend your day at work than do a run through?
I was overjoyed with them. So yeah, I found a real passion
with that. What was your favorite game that
(31:48):
you sort of helped come up with or show that you may have worked
on on that? Oh my gosh.
Well, when I was working at Remarkable, we were coming up
with Richard Dozman's House of Games.
So I've come up with a few gamesfor that show which made it onto
the series, which was really fun.
So yeah, there was, I can't remember the names of any of
(32:10):
these things because they all change names by the time they're
air, you air. But I there was one where you
sort of had to stand up. You were.
Each person was given an answer and you had to sort of stand up.
If you thought it was you, you were You were the answer.
And there was one where you tooksomeone's name and you had to
find the answer within their name and stuff.
(32:34):
That's cool. No, it's an interesting, it's an
area I don't know a lot about because you know, drama is very
different. I know we still do a bit of
entertainment work as well and stuff, but how how are you
finding that part of the industry?
Because I sort of know that TV is struggling a lot of the
moment and that area has sort ofbeen Hick as well, quite hard,
factual and entertainment. And I've had a lot of cuts and
(32:55):
stuff. Have you found it OK?
Has that affected you? Do you know people that are sort
of out working things? Yeah, loads, loads those people
out of work and it's so seasonal.
There's something for quiz showsespecially.
There were not still being made,which was nice, but there was a
quiet period towards the end of 20 where there just didn't have
(33:19):
been much play. You periods myself as well.
And it's been rough. And you start to question
whether you're in the whether you're in the right career and
what could you possibly do. But it has come back.
Luckily there's been a lot of quiz shows made in 2025 already,
so it's been nice to see resurgence a bit and I've been
(33:41):
very lucky with getting work so far.
So yeah. Good to know.
I, I feel you heavily though in that questioning what the hell
am I doing that you know, No, I feel that a lot just now the
show, our work has actually beencancelled by BBC Scotland.
So, you know, we've got till next April and then it's like,
well, you know what I mean? So it's a weird time and it's
happening across the industry. And again, like I was talking
(34:03):
about with the people being praised to the arts, I just
think it's important to be honest.
But I don't want, you know, it may appear from the outside that
you're smashing it and stuff, but not, you know, everyone's
got stuff going on and you know,it's never always
straightforward. How do you cope with the sort of
uncertainty of working in this industry though?
Because obviously you do, you'vegot loads of different skills
and stuff which probably helps. But are you someone that finds
that OK, or do you find that tricky?
(34:24):
No, I hate it. How do you how do you cope with
it? I have a terrible time.
I just, it's like, especially I'm often unemployed in, in
winter, so it's like December, January time and it gets dark at
like 4:00 PM and if you're stillin your pyjamas at 1:00 PM,
you're like Rick, I've only got 3 hours of daylight.
So yeah, I'm absolutely good formotivation.
(34:48):
I guess I the only way I found to care around it, and this is
not a relatable way. I booked a holiday in in a time
I knew I would be unemployed. So I went away at the beginning
of January and it was nice, although incredibly frightening
financially. But maybe that was like the
(35:09):
adrenaline rush I needed. Oh God, can I have this meal
out? But now I, I coped terribly.
I have no advice for anyone. In fact, please give me advice
on how to get through any of that uncertainty.
It's terrible. I have a very similar answer.
(35:31):
No completely. I, I'm not very good at all.
And but again, I, I, I don't think I know this is an advice,
but maybe that is comforting forthe people that they are like,
OK, it's all right to feel like that way about it.
And you know, this is an incredibly scary and uncertain.
No for sure. Well, I kind of want to talk to
you a bit more about your show then in in general.
There's a like, obviously you'reon tour just now and then you're
(35:52):
returning to the fringe. So do you want to give us a bit?
You kind of touched on what the show is a little bit and told us
it's improv and you know, it's kind of Agatha Christie and it's
like improvised stuff. But do you want to tell us a bit
more about it and also tell us where you're going on tour,
where people can see it, etcetera?
Yeah, sure. So.
And the show's called murder. She didn't write.
It's an improvised murder mystery, Agatha Christie style,
(36:17):
where we make up a completely different murder for you to
solve every night and you're 1 member of the audience who's
chosen at random by the throwingof a hat becomes Jerkins, the
detective's sidekick, and they pick where the murder takes
(36:39):
place. Also who dies and who did it?
So they can either pick up random if they want to play
along too, although the victim does become pretty apparent
about halfway through, or if they want to be to kill someone
off or make someone the murderer.
Then they it's up to them, they can do it, and it's up to the
rest of the audience to guess. Hopefully it's but it's also
(37:03):
comedy. So even if you're not a big
murder mystery fan, at the end of the day it's a comedy.
A comedy show with lots of sort of farcical fun bits.
And yeah, we're on tour and thenwe're heading to the Edinburgh
Fringe. We're back our spiritual home.
So yeah, we'll be at the Gordon Aikman Theatre, all Fringe, all
(37:25):
month, all of August. So yeah, that's, that's the
show. We do have dates.
I should know them, but I'm not 100% sure where this is going
out well. Neither am I to be in in all
honesty. This is, you know, getting see
behind the carton listeners. This is how we, you know, record
lots of episodes and then we work out how to release them.
But there is links below in the show notes right now.
(37:46):
So if you want to go and find out more about Lizzie's show
whenever this is dropping probably in the next few weeks
from recording. But you know, you can find out
more about the tour and the Fringe, etcetera, Go and see the
show. And you can subscribe and
follow, you know, Lizzie and hervarious companies and shows,
etcetera on social media as well.
All the details are below. And please subscribe to the
(38:07):
podcast as well. Yeah, below.
The classic thing they all do babbling, but they're used to
it. I also, yeah, I want to ask you
as well about because a lot of people listening go to the
Friends, they maybe want to takea show to the Fringe.
What are your sort of tips? I mean, we touched on the
unaffordability of it earlier, but what are your tips for
people that maybe want to take ashow to the Fringe be or take a
(38:29):
show on tour? So book your accommodation
early, like really early. We've had we've lost
accommodation because to early enough in also look after
(38:51):
yourself both mentally and physically.
If you're there for the whole month, that's a lot and I think
a lot of performers burn out. I certainly have on my early
fringes because you're all excited and you're surrounded by
other performers. So you have a few late nights
and then look after your mind and body and book accommodation
early and avoid the Royal Mile. That's an anxiety dream, I
(39:18):
think. To be fair, it's hard to get
around the whole city half the time.
Hello, it's Jamie here. I hope you're enjoying this
week's episode. It's just a quick one for me to
say that if you're listening to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or
whatever platform you engage with our show on, be sure to
give us a follow or a subscribe as it goes a long way into
helping us grow and find new listeners as well as helping you
(39:40):
keep up with all the latest episodes and everything that's
happening. I just get a real job.
You can also support us by subscribing to our patron page
for the price of a cup of coffeeper month.
All the money we make goes back into the upkeep of the podcast.
Thank you for your continued support and we hope you enjoy
the rest of today's episode. Thank you for your answering
(40:01):
your question. But the French, but I want to
sort of ask you about like the biggest lesson you've maybe
learned in your career. And I know you've worked in
various different aspects of thecreative industry as well, from
your performing, taking stuff tothe fringe and also your game
show stuff. But like, what's your sort of
what would your biggest lesson be so far?
Oh, I think one of the, and it'ssomething I've have to tell
(40:28):
myself regularly, is you're really are your own harshest
critic on the whole. And I've done loads of gigs both
in TV and in on stage. And a lot of time you go, well,
that's terrible. I'm, I've, they must have
noticed that I had, you know, that I had a stain on my top or
(40:53):
I, like, stumbled over this or got this wrong.
And I kind of think everyone is always focused on what they're
doing. And you should kind of be kind
to yourself and realise that. Yeah.
But you are your own. You notice things about you that
are rather than other people. So.
Yeah. And that's translated across in
(41:15):
both, Yeah, theatre and TV. Be kind to yourself, which is, I
know, very vague, but it is in an industry where you don't
have, there's not a lot of performance review, if you know
what I mean, other than actual reviews.
It's quite easy to forget that like you know you're doing it,
(41:36):
so so be kind to yourself. I know, yeah.
No, completely. I, I think we are often our
harshest critics. And I think as well, you get so
caught up in what you're doing is that you forget that three
years ago you sort of think, yousay to yourself, I've achieved
these things, or if I did this, that would make me happy.
And then you do those things andit doesn't actually make you as
(41:58):
happy as you think it would because then you're just
thinking of the next thing or you just think you didn't do it
well enough. So it's a, it's a really hard
self fulfilling prophecy almost that yeah, it's really tricky.
I struggle at the most. No matter how much evidence you
you build for yourself, you can always find a way to be like
wasn't good enough. Yeah, exactly.
(42:19):
Which is mad really, because youcan't do anything 100% perfect
all of the time. I mean, that is an improv thing.
You'll never be 100% perfect, but it's over.
Like each, each thing is a fleeting moment.
I guess you work in the other side.
You work because you're in scripted.
You're like, yeah, how do you deal with having the permanency
(42:45):
of script and film? I mean, even then though, like
once you you shoot something on a budget, do you know what I
mean around time limit? So sometimes you you get the
shot. I mean, I'm not really on set
too often because I'm behind thescenes more.
But like at the end of the day, like you run at a time, the
scripts as good as it can be, but you're always something
could always be better. Same with the podcast, like you
(43:08):
put it out, it exists forever. You know, listen back to
episodes from like 4 years ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, then
I put that out. That's cringey.
But at the same time, that's where I was then.
And like, you know, you kind of learn and like, you know, I
think it's just accepting that it's similar in some ways.
It's it's done. You know, I technically could go
back and delete things, I suppose.
And the way that you can't do itfor live performance, but you
(43:30):
know, it's, I try, I kind of treat it the same way.
Like it is permanent, but you know, it's done in in in the
sense of like that period of your life, that bit of
creativity, like, you know, in the same way as show and you
know, that's the experience of it as well.
It's a little bit, I mean, the biggest lesson I've maybe
learned in my creative ways thatit's actually about enjoying
(43:52):
this part of it instead of thinking all the time about what
didn't go right or what worryingabout the future or, I don't
know. It's just actually trying to
enjoy this part instead of thinking like, if I just get to
this thing, that'll make me happy and then you do it and it
doesn't normally. So I think just being like
trying to enjoy what this is, but that is really tricky to do.
So yeah, it's hard. Yeah, we have it with, I mean,
(44:17):
yeah, none of our well, and hopefully none of our shows are
really ever sort of recorded. So sometimes you have a moment
of genius and you have a moment they're like, you're like, I
should have did that differently, but they're all
gone. So you never have the permanency
of like a great moment being captured, but you also never
have a moment where you're like,I misspoke and said this wrong
(44:39):
or like I didn't say that 100% correctly.
And that is also gone. So it's like both sides of that.
But I also think those both those things are equally
important in different ways because you learn from the
mistakes as much as it's great to do a good moment, but like
you need, you need both and bothare special as well.
That's the whole point and beingcreative and putting yourself
out there. It's both those things.
(45:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And be happy with both of those
things, right? Yeah, I've tried to as best you
can. Yeah, well, there's I've got one
more question for you, which is just that we always get our
guest to end on sort of wrap up and sort of what their advice
maybe would be to someone who wanted to do what they do.
So what would your advice be to anyone wanting to either become
(45:22):
a performer to a show or maybe they want to go and work and
game shows or be a researcher ona documentary that you used to
do or anything like that? What would your advice be to
them? Well, my advice is, I mean, I'm
a person that came up with a show, cast myself in it, and
then continue to tour it around.And I think don't wait for
(45:48):
opportunities. I, I thought, you know, you can
audition for things and not get them, but you can always start
your own thing and put yourself in it.
And I think that's also true of TV.
If you don't get on one of the schemes or you don't get that
job, then it is also fine to make your own.
And, you know, that is kind of the direction we're going
(46:10):
anyway. So you don't have to wait to be
recognised by authorities or, ora certain level.
You can just make your own thing.
And it's worked for me so far. And it means I haven't had to go
to drama school or learn how to act.
I can just be funny with my friends on stage.
(46:32):
And, and that's sort of equally as, as valid.
And I don't need to sort of, yeah, I, I can just, you know
what? That's how I've got better and
better by doing, by doing it myself rather than waiting to be
taught or waiting to sort of be accepted.
And you have a science degree aswell, which is quite, you know,
a bit different for a lot of people working in the arts.
(46:54):
If there's ever a scientist character in a murder mystery,
I'll love it. I'll love to be the scientist.
I was a scientist on gluten. I think in, in a most recent
show, a French gluten scientist.And yeah, it just, it's just
enjoyable to make stuff up. You can.
(47:16):
You'd found a niche market for yourself to to aim at, so you
know it's cool. Yeah, exactly.
There you go. But yeah, my biggest advice is
you don't don't wait for opportunities that just make it
and have fun doing it. Because otherwise, yeah, there's
there's not enough opportunities.
So you've can't make it yourself, I think.
(47:36):
And if. You're going to share a room
with six people with the friends, you may as well try and
enjoy the shows you're doing andall that stuff, eh?
Thank you. Why don't you just do it for
your friends? It's way more fun.
Well, Lizzie, thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate you sticking and wemade it work third time round
and stuff as well very quickly before we wrap up, just to
remind people, there's obviouslylinks to all the shows and, and
your work and the show notes. But is there anything you'd seen
(47:58):
or you want to plug or show other shows that people you know
and like you want to quickly plug while you're here?
Oh my goodness, who else do I recommend?
I always like the incredibly talented elf lions.
She always brings the show up and it's always truly sublime.
There's a lot of other great improv out there.
(48:19):
And if you don't see Murder She didn't Write, please give other
improv another go because they're so broad and I think
it's really good to see. Oh God, I should probably name
something specific, but Jacuzzi are always great.
Oh my goodness, there's spontaneous.
Spontaneous Potter are really fun.
(48:41):
Oh my goodness, who else is going?
Yeah, loads, loads. But yeah, I would I would
recommend if you go to the fringe to take a punt on
something new and just see. Right.
Well, Lizzie, thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate it and good luck with the rest of the tour.
And I look forward to seeing your show at the Fringe as well.
Thanks, it was lovely chatting to you, it was much less scary
(49:02):
than I thought it was going to be.
Very glad.
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