EP. 175 - 'Building a Better Future for Young Creatives' with Sam Hornsby (ERIC App) - Just Get A Real Job

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Just Get a
Real Job with your host, me, Jamie McKinley.
Thank you as always for tuning in to the show.
Thrilled to welcome on this weekthe wonderful Sam Hornsby who is
one of the Co founders of the Eric app, which is a brilliant

(00:20):
application basically that collates and finds all the
opportunities in the creative industries across the UK for
young people. And so the team at Eric Basic,
they look for everything that they can find opportunities wise
and they collate it all in one app, which is easy, easy to use
and basically helps people find the opportunities they might not
otherwise have time or be able to have seen before.

(00:43):
And it's a really, really important tool, especially in an
industry which is so hard to navigate and is often very
unaccessible, especially for people that come from maybe a
disadvantaged background. So it was an absolute joy to
welcome Sam on the show and to talk to her about how Eric
started and some of them gold that they app has and some of
our thoughts on the sort of creative industries and

(01:03):
everything that's happening within that.
It was a really inspiring conversation.
We recorded this one about two months ago.
We had a few tech issues, but we've edited together and I'm
really happy with the result andhow it's sounding.
So I've been excited to put thisone out.
Also Central Coordinate, really pleased to say as we announced
on our social media a couple weeks ago that just get a real
job has now become an official ambassador for the Enigap as

(01:27):
well. So it's been brilliant to work
with them more closely and or really do share a lot of the
goals and values they have as well about helping get more
people into the creative industries and, and making the
creative industries more accessible to people from all
backgrounds. And so, yeah, it was so good to
have some on the show. And before we go into this
week's episode as well, just a reminder that if you're watching
us on YouTube, please subscribe.We're trying to keep growing the

(01:48):
channel. And if you're listening to us on
Spotify or whatever podcast platform as well, please be sure
to follow us and raters. And yeah, just keep telling
people at the podcast, share it with your friends, family,
anyone who may find the podcast useful.
Anyway, that's enough waffle forme.
We've got some brilliant, exciting things coming up,
especially within Refringe on this August.

(02:10):
We're going to do some behind the scenes stuff again this year
as well, hopefully do some interviews with performers
there. Yeah, thank you so much for
listening as always. And I really hope you enjoy this
week's conversation with the wonderful Sam Hornsby.
Sam, how's it going? It's lovely to have you on.
Just get a real job tonight. Thank you for joining us.

(02:30):
You run a company and an app called Eric, which is doing some
amazing things in the creative industries.
And it's lovely to have you on the show.
How are you doing? Well, I'm great, thank you so
much. I was saying before, I'm very
flattered to be asked. It's nice when someone wants to
hear me speak. None of my family do so.
No, it's a pleasure to have you you all.
And obviously, I know I said at the start that you run an app,

(02:51):
but I also want to flag, but youknow, you're you're one of the
sort of Co founders of obviouslyyour partner May is also heavily
involved, but I'll mention her as well just in case, you know,
I don't wanted to give you all the credit.
You guys sort of founded that maybe what, five years ago, four
years ago. So it's about the similar age to
when I started this podcast and we have quite a lot of the same
names and trying to like make the creative industries more

(03:12):
accessible, more easy to navigate.
I honestly think what you guys have done is brilliant.
But just to sort of kick us off,do you want to quickly give us a
quick overview of what Eric is? And then we'll get into some of
the more details about it because it's a brilliant thing.
And I think our listeners reallycame with it.
Amazing. Yes.
So Eric is a free to use creative careers app.
So if you want a career in any of the creative industries, then

(03:35):
basically this is the app where you will find all the
opportunities that are out therethat you can get involved in.
And I think that's probably the best, like quickest way to
describe it. I think I feel like a better
question to sort of ask you actually, because you have an
amazing part on your website which people can go and look at
it. I was just telling y'all there
that it's very nice to, very easy to use, but you got a whole

(03:57):
part about you and me who started the company with slight
journey and the reason you started it and stuff.
So I suppose actually a really good question, sort of kick
things off and ask you, it's like, why did you start, Eric?
And what was that part of your sort of early journey that that
you felt you weren't able to sort of have the career in the
arts that you maybe would have wanted and it gave you the
impetus to then start business? Yes.

(04:17):
OK, So we started Eric, because we literally experienced the
problem of struggling to get into the creative industries.
I mean, because I could go into a lot of detail here, so I'll
try and keep it brief, but May and I both had our own creative
ambitions and we failed for different reasons.

(04:38):
We experienced different barriers and generally May and I
have been pretty lucky in the lottery of life.
And so we kind of realized that if we were finding it hard, then
most other people probably find it a lot harder.
And someone should really step up and try and solve the, I
guess, access issue to the creative industries.
It can be a very opaque area. Lots of people do work in the

(05:00):
creative industries, but there isn't that much information
about what you can do and like how to get in.
And it seems, well, on the outside, it seems to be a bit of
a closed network. However, when you're actually in
it, it's very friendly and nice.And so, yeah, we just really
wanted to give young people, younger versions of ourselves
that kind of better connection, the connection that we'd lacked.

(05:24):
And you and you may have been friends for a long time.
Sorry. You met when you were eight
years old, right? And we're both really creative
and bonded over that. And then it's kind of mad that
like, you know, years later you would go on to then start this
company in business. Yeah, Oh my God, we've been
friends for 26 years now. Like an insanely long time.

(05:44):
And honestly, we absolutely loverunning the business together.
It's amazing. We have such a passion for what
we do. I think because we experience
the issue ourselves and it, you know, it feels like it's such an
O the creative industries and access to the creative
industries historically as beingsuch an overlooked and
underserved area. And it feels like a blessing to
be able to, you know, solve a problem that we experienced.

(06:09):
And, and yeah, I think May and I, you know, we have so much in
common as well in terms of like,we've got a real sense of
justice. We've, you know, a kind of great
work ethic. And it just feels like we were
the right team to come along. Hopefully, fingers crossed,
hopefully the right team to solve this issue.
And it is something that we're very passionate about solving.

(06:30):
I I suppose a good place to maybe touch on then and, and as
well and to go into from that iswhat you actually think are the,
the issues around access to the arts.
Like what were the barriers fromyour own personal story as well
that that's maybe stopped you having the career you wanted
that gave you like the inspiration as well?
Yeah. OK.
So the actual kind of the detailof the story between our

(06:51):
relationship and the creative industries is May wanted to be a
fashion designer and she ended up being a chartered accountant
at PwC. So she dramatically failed.
I think she's like the poster story, and lots of people, I
think, can relate to her story where it's like, you wanted to
be something really creative, and then essentially your
parents told you that that wasn't a serious option.

(07:12):
And so then she ended up, you know, going into accountancy,
which is so far away from fashion.
I don't think you can get two more opposite industries.
And the reason, yeah, that she didn't go into fashion is
literally because her parents didn't think that it was, like,
good enough. They didn't think that there was
any way that their daughter would be able to make any money,

(07:33):
that she'd have any stability and things like that.
And then for me, I wanted to be a ceramicist, so I wanted to be
a Potter. And I actually applied to art
school. I was lucky my parents actually
didn't mind. They kind of encouraged.
My mum is quite creative. She very much encouraged me.
But I do get into a single art school.

(07:54):
So that was quite a quick death to my ceramicist dream because I
didn't really know any other wayto get in, you know, at that
time as well, which was what I guess 2000s honestly, my math is
so bad I actually don't even know what it was.
But it was the time where everyone was being told that uni
is the option. And, and I think that was really

(08:16):
hard when I couldn't go to uni, I was like, what the hell do I
do? You know, like that seems to be
the only way to get into the artworld.
So you know, the barriers that we both experienced.
One May was like, my parents didn't think it was serious so
they put me off, they told me I couldn't do it.
And then for me, I was like, I was only told about 1 pathway
in. And when that failed, I was kind
of floundering. I didn't know what other options

(08:36):
there were. And so yeah, that's basically
kind of the actual barriers. And whenever we talk about these
and actually whenever we used totalk about them, even before we
started Eric, I think 9 times out of 10 people would be able
to relate to our story in some level.
We've had so many people like lawyers be like, I wanted to be,

(08:58):
you know, working music. And then, you know, I don't
know, people who are in HR beinglike, I would have loved to all,
you know, go and be a florist orsomething.
Like there are so many personal stories out there of people who,
you know, any creative ambition was just shut down because, you
know, for various different reasons and, and barriers that

(09:19):
other people put in front of them.
And I think that not everyone can go into the creative
industry. So I think it's also very
important to acknowledge that I'm not unrealistic about that,
but you can be, for example, youcan be a lawyer for the music
industry. You could be, you know, work in
HR at a large florist company like that, they can merge.
But so many people were told that creativity is over here and

(09:43):
you're not allowed to go over there.
This way is boring and corporate, and that's what you
should be doing. And therefore lots of people end
up not enjoying what they do. And that's a shame, a huge
shame. Hmm.
No, completely it's so interesting of path of what you
you know, your story you're talking about is so many
people's parents say that to them because and again, it
doesn't come often from a bad place.
It's one they want their kids tolike have a stable life and to,

(10:07):
you know, not went an industry where they think, you know, A,
don't know how to navigate it, Bcan't afford to sustain it and
survive in it. So, you know, it comes from a
good place. And we have what's so
interesting about running this podcast and you know, this done
over 170 episodes now, which is crazy, But there's so many
people that have had such different pathways and no one's
path into this, into the creative industries is the same.
And as you say, often creativityis put to one side and you don't

(10:31):
realize that there's jobs that exist that they can merge both
they can be very employable, butyou know, niche in a certain
way. And I suppose it's as you say,
we're not saying everyone shouldgo into the grave industries or,
or, or can go into the grave industries, but there's so many
talented people that miss out onthe opportunity to do it because
the gateway into the industry, you know, is just so hard to
navigate or they just don't havethe education and understanding

(10:54):
about how it works. And unfortunately it, it just is
a very glamorized and middle class industry.
And if you come from very working class background, you
know, like growing up myself, like it was just, it, it wasn't
a world I could imagine where TVwas just, it felt so far away.
And so many kids sadly don't getthat chance and that and that is
a tragedy. So I think it's important we

(11:15):
know that why we need things like Eric and people there to
try and make that pathway easier.
So it's, yeah, it's something I'm very passionate about.
And it's it's lovely to sort of chat, but then a bit more debt.
Yeah, I completely agree. I think, you know, there are so
many issues that still stand in the creative industry that
existed when I was at school, and that was quite a long time
ago now. I can't claim to be a young

(11:36):
person at all anymore, sadly. And I think that is testament to
the fact that these barriers have still not be broken down.
There's not enough conversation around things like class in the
creative industries, which is a screamingly large issue.
And I think frankly, you know, the creative industries doesn't
really do a very good job as well of I think a lot of it

(11:57):
comes from the creative industries doing a very poor job
of educating future generations about how to get into the
creative industries. And parents are, like you say,
parents and teachers. They're just regurgitating the
information that they have and they can't be blamed.
And the creative industry needs to do a better job of re
educating people if they want that to change.

(12:18):
Completely and I and I think what's also interesting is that
the end like with and I know it's such a big block.
So when we're trusting the craveindustries, it covers so many
different assets and, and and sort of sectors.
But I think within the actual crave industries itself, there
needs to be more, I think discussion around what it's
actually even like if you do work in the industry itself.
Because even if you make it and you work in a creative job,

(12:40):
often there's a massive sense ofimposter syndrome or it doesn't
feel stable. So you maybe you get some work
for a year, but then it's like, how do I continue this?
And that's a whole other conversation as well.
So it's yeah, it's a really complicated and interesting
subject, so it's great to talk about it.
So I suppose the other thing I want to ask is when, like when
you first started, Eric, then what was like the sort of baby

(13:02):
steps of that before you went onto like launch it?
Well, okay, so Eric has actuallybeen going for quite a long time
because um, we have had like 3 versions almost of Eric.
So the mission has always stayedthe same.
The vehicle in which we explain or communicate that issue has
changed over the years. So first, the first version of

(13:24):
Eric was back in 2014 and that was an online magazine that was
absolutely appalling. No one read it, no one cared.
And so therefore that quickly went out the window.
And that was our, that was our first step basically to try and
like communicate. Here's what people do in the
creative industries. Here's how you can get in.

(13:46):
We're doing it through this format.
You learn very quickly when you begin to run a business that
like failure is actually the best way of learning.
So like we failed at that dramatically and then we pivoted
in 2000 and we actually moved tobecome an events company and
that became our first taste of like, oh, this is actually

(14:08):
something that people really want.
So you kind of learn again, the mission is always like whatever
you're, if you're a purpose LED business, the mission will
always stay the same. You know, missions are
important, causes are important,people can get on board with
that, but you do have to find anappropriate way of communicating

(14:29):
with your target audience. And it turned out that events
which were for us basically alternative careers theirs that
focus specifically on the creative industries, that was
something that people really understood.
They knew what the concept was. They didn't have to think about
it and be like, what's that? It's like, oh, it's a careers
there. I know what that is and focused

(14:49):
on the creative industries. And people really kind of
latched on to that and they loved the idea.
And we made everything really, really like reflect the creative
industries that are very colorful, very jazzy, like, you
know, loads of live music comedians, like, oh, it was kind
of a creative festival, but justfocused on careers.
Those were really successful. We actually did a really good
job with those. Again, our first festival was a

(15:12):
bit of a like nightmare, I'd say, because neither of us had
ever started a fest, never run an event in our lives.
I can't believe we pulled off, to be honest.
But it happened and it was OK. And then it just ended up
getting better and better. And so we ended up doing those
for about what, five years, Six years?
Oh yes, five years. Because in 2020, that's when we

(15:35):
had to shut them down because ofthe pandemic.
And that's when we started to realize that we needed to create
a tech product. And so we had to pivot the
business again. And that was a completely new
learning curve for us because neither may nor I have any tech
experience. We don't know how to write a
line of code. And all of a sudden we decided,
let's just create an app. That's a lot harder than it

(15:58):
sounds. So we'd be doing that now,
obviously for about what, four or five years?
But each separate section of that journey has come with like
a world of different very fast, very difficult lessons that
we've had to take on board. So I think it just goes to prove
that no matter how long you do abusiness for, you'll probably

(16:22):
have to change it at some point and then you'll probably have to
completely start all over again.So that's the big lesson there.
It's mad that it's nearly basically been 11 years then
since you sort of the concept ofit first started.
Do you feel like the mission's changed the toll then you
mentioned like, you know, you feel like a key thing is the
mission has the sort of the passion and the sort of drive

(16:43):
behind it sort of needs to stay there.
Is the mission always been the same or is it sort of?
I mean, I guess it can evolve ina positive way as well over
time, but is it sort of? Stayed the same?
Yeah, it has actually always stayed the same.
The I guess kind of the problem that we're solving has got a bit
more refined overtime. So initially we were like, we
just want to connect the creative industries and young

(17:06):
people more effectively. We want to get them in the same
room and we just want them to beable to talk to each other so
that it's not a siloed, weird, opaque place that young people
think like they're not welcome in.
And that, you know, really worked for the festivals.
But then through the festivals, we began to realize that there
was actually a more fundamental problem going on.

(17:28):
And that actually was the discovery issue that young
people were having. So, you know, you're a young
person looking for a creative careers opportunity.
Where the hell do you go? Like, where do you look?
You know, where are the opportunities?
And they're kind of scattered everywhere.
And through the festivals, we began to realize, because we

(17:48):
were talking to a lot creative companies as well, we began to
realize that there were more businesses than you would expect
who are promoting creative careers opportunities.
But they're doing it on like Twitter or like on their
website, which no one ever visits.
You know, it's like they're doing it in these really weird
spaces where they're like, but why aren't people seeing our
opportunity? And it's because like you're

(18:09):
using a ridic, you're putting ina place where no young people
are like, so therefore, how are you kind of, you know, how are
you expecting young people to find it?
So that is kind of where we began to realize that there was
a fundamental issue with that. The reason that the creative
industries and young people are so disconnected often is because
they're literally shouting in different spaces.

(18:30):
And so that's actually what we ended up doing with the app is
that we decided to create that one hub where people can just
discover the stuff that they find very difficult to discover
on a normal kind of Google search.
So, yeah, so, so the mission stayed the same, but the kind of
we've refined it a little bit, identified a very specific, very

(18:51):
clear problem and and that's nowwhat we're doing.
It's so interesting because you're like the great jobs are
like the Wild West sometimes theway they're regulated and also
the way that, as you say, like you can't find them.
And often it, what it means is it means if you don't, if you're
not in the know about how an industry works, then you're just
excluded from it as well, which again, obviously is a big part

(19:12):
of what you're trying to fix with your app and your business.
How do you think that's changed now in 2025?
I know you'd obviously catering for it and you're, we'll talk a
bit more about specifics of whatyou, what Eric actually does
and, and what you've built and stuff.
But like how, how have you foundthe industry now?
Like in 2025? What do you think the creative
industries look like 10 years later from when you first
started, started that project? Like is it, has it improved the

(19:34):
tall or do you still think there's a huge access problem?
That's a really good question. It's definitely better.
It's definitely better. And I think there's it's better
on a number of different, different levels.
I think 1, the creative industries is much more willing
to admit that they've got a problem where 10 years ago I
don't think anyone really wantedto admit it, even though it was

(19:55):
quite glaringly obvious to everyone else.
And I also think they're puttingmore money into creating
opportunities for young people. I don't think they're quite at
the point where they're, there'sa lot of like training schemes,
there's a lot of, you know, upskilling stuff going on and
not necessarily enough actual creation of jobs.

(20:17):
I would say that's where the biglike gap is at the moment.
But you know, they are trying toput more money where their
mouths are. And I definitely see a, an
attitude shift as well as a financial shift.
I, I really do believe that the creative industries is on the
brink of, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about AI at some

(20:41):
point soon, but I think the creative industries is on the
brink of a like much more like prioritized, on the brink of
being much more recognized, muchmore valued and much more
prioritized by citizens, not just the government, but also
the general public. I think the conversation

(21:02):
publicly around the creative industries is hotting up and
that's important. And actually, I think that's one
positive thing that AI has done.I think it's got people talking
about how actually valuable the creative industries is an AI is
at risk of disrupting it. So it's the only good thing I
think that AI is doing right now.
But it is it's a fascinating space.

(21:22):
It is changing. There's a lot of new attitudes
coming in. The dinosaurs are are definitely
being pushed out. And I think the the kind of
innovation or the innovative thinkers who want to embrace the
new generation and get them really in line with, you know, I
guess what the creative industries needs that like that
is happening. Yeah, I think it's needed a lot

(21:42):
of innovation for a long time, especially when I work in TV.
I feel like it's nice to see some it's, you know, innovations
finally taking place and maybe achange in approach and people
stepping back and going, OK, howcan we best sort of change
things and maybe look at what's not working?
I do. I think what's interesting
you're touching on like there's a lot of training.
I mean, that's obviously my expertise tends to be more more
on TV than other sectors of the great industries.

(22:04):
Outside of this podcast, I get abit of a sort of overview, but I
think what a common thing I findfrom intervene people and just
from my own experiences, there'sa lot of training schemes and
what they call talent pools, butunfortunately there isn't the
job then to follow it or like that mid level area of the
creative industries often lack. So you get into it and you have
a great year or two, but then where do you go?
And sadly, a lot of people leaveand there's that talent train.

(22:28):
So yeah, it's a it's an interesting place, but it's
great to get an overview of it. You mentioned the eye there.
I know we said we talk about it later.
Actually might be good to talk, but just talk about it now.
Well, we're well, you know the elephant in the room.
I've seen you accompanied to know an interesting.
I might have you actually been you personally did a post about
AI and how basically Nick Clegg was saying that, you know, if
they didn't still people's critibasically the industry and

(22:51):
you're sort of making the point that like that's theft.
Effectively, AI is obviously a huge buzzword everyone's talking
about at the moment. It's feels like a very uncertain
time. And what how do you feel about
AI and what's going on there from your appeal?
Yeah, I mean, it's such a big topic.
I mean, I've got a number of different thoughts.

(23:12):
First of all, I think the way that like, I mean that quote
from Nick Clegg was like shocking, so tone deaf.
I couldn't believe that. I honestly couldn't believe it.
I had to read 7 different articles about it because I was
like, surely this isn't, surely didn't actually say this.
So that I did and it was, you know, I think generally it seems

(23:33):
to be that big tech is paying their way into everyone's
pockets again, yet again. And I think that is something
that has been apparent with the AI data bill.
You know, the bill that Nick Clegg is talking about, you
know, it got passed by the Houseof Lords.
They were saying, you know, we need to protect the creative

(23:53):
industries. Lots of them are, you know,
creative donors or they have interests in the arts.
And so therefore they have a vested interest in protecting
the UK creative industries. And then as soon as it gets to
the Houses of Parliament, no, like we're blocking it, you
know, we want to change this, make it tweak this, make this a
more in favor of big tech, like blah, blah, blah.
And I just think that actually speaks volumes about how out of

(24:18):
touch or or disconnected the government tends to be, people
who work in the government, how disconnected they are from, you
know, arts and culture really. And I think that's a real shame.
However, I would say that I don't think that I also think
there's a spotlight on the creative industries.
I don't think that this is a creative industries isolated

(24:39):
problem. And I think sometimes when you
work in the creative industries,it is easy to feel like we're
the only ones at risk here. We're not.
And so hopefully other industries will be will be
fighting their own causes. And then we we can all basically
put enough pressure collectivelyon government or the big tech
companies to, you know, I guess kind of not take advantage of

(25:02):
everything that they want to take advantage of.
And then we'll be able to protect, I guess the rest of the
UK economy as well, not just thecreative industries.
Health care is massively at risk, I would say those kind of
industries. Law.
Oh my God, there's a lot of chatabout it in the legal world.
You know, all of these. We're not the only ones, you
know, So it's not just a creative problem where we're
just fighting and everyone else is like, Oh my God, bad for you

(25:25):
guys. You know, we're all kind of in
it together. And then when it comes to the
actual impact of AI or like how how human behaviour may well, I
guess kind of, I don't know how to put this, I read a comment
ages ago that encapsulated it really well, which is basically
when everything around you is junk food, you'll pay a lot of

(25:47):
money for someone to cook you a steak.
And I think that is kind of where I see AI going in terms of
how it will affect the creative industry.
AI at the moment tends to churn out stuff that all sounds
relatively similar. There's a lot of tells that it's
been written by AI. If you want it to not sound like
it's been written by AI, then you need to tweak it as a human,

(26:09):
you need to make adjustments. You need to write certain things
in your own words, play around with it, edit it basically.
And I go on LinkedIn myself and I can tell who's written stuff
with AI and therefore I activelydon't really want to read the
post. It's not like a conscious
decision even I just sub consciously.
I'm like, Nah, like I'm just going to move on.
And I think that's because I'm looking for something that is

(26:30):
more quality. And I believe that if we as
humans, we'll always have human behaviour, which is we get bored
of stuff when it's mass produced.
We want to, you know, consume things that make us feel like we
are unique individuals, like we're absorbing someone else's

(26:50):
opinion. And I think that if anything, AI
will just drive up the price of like artisanal created content.
So people actually taking photographs, people actually
making videos, people actually writing content themselves.
I think that that will become a premium and people will be able

(27:12):
to charge a lot more for that standard.
It's the same as like IKEA when IKEA came in, everyone started
by IKEA, which is amazing. I understand that IKEA in the
world, but ultimately it didn't get rid of of like bespoke
artisanal furniture, did it? It just drove up the price.
So that's my take. To get analogy, it's

(27:33):
interesting, it's something I'm trying to be conscious.
I'm dyslexic and spell checkers have been crap for years, right?
So there's obviously positives to everything.
So AI, right? It is the best spell check I've
ever had in my life and it, it revolutionized that for me
because in 20 seconds I can put an entire e-mail or whatever

(27:53):
into AI and I can fix my spelling and grammar.
Obviously it makes some mistakes, but it's useful too,
right? However, there's a difference
between that and then me becoming lazy again.
It's right everything and the set.
And the second thing about AI isthat it's obviously really
uncertain for a lot of people. So there's just a lot of people
like really scared and nervous about it because it's a new

(28:14):
thing coming in and it's obviously gonna cause a lot of
disruption. And while there is some
positives, there's obviously, you know, negatives as well and
it's a bit scary. But I mean, it's an important
thing to talk about it. And I appreciate you like, you
know, being quite riled up aboutit because it is a, you know, it
is effectively fit. The tech companies have just
stolen a lot of our data. So it.
Is shocking. I do find it absolutely shocking
how brazen it is. And I was on, I spent about an

(28:36):
hour yesterday on a Reddit thread about and though all
these people with these fantastic points, like, do you
remember those? Oh, you wouldn't steal a car.
You wouldn't steal a, you know, so therefore you pay for your
license, your BBC license or whatever.
And it's like, sorry, this is basically the same thing.
It's a joke. Yeah.
I think it's insane how how all of the values that we used to

(29:00):
live by or have enforced on us, you know, often by the
government, they've now just gone out the window.
Now that big tech wants to use everyone's content for for
creation, It's mad. Now I wonder if it's just
because Big Tech has such an influence over government and
influence and policy public mood, like the sort of our just
not powerless because that sounds very conspiratorial.

(29:21):
But you know, I mean, it does feel a bit like it just feels
like they have such an influencethat there's nothing anyone can
do. It's almost about feels about
hopeless at times. Yeah, well, I think Keir Starmer
has made no secret of the fact that he wants the UK to be an AI
leader. So I think that there's probably
a direct correlation with how much leeway they want to give AI

(29:43):
and I guess kind of how much they'll get in return for that
in terms of like a positioning amongst the global market.
So you know, there's probably a direct correlation.
Yeah, well, sort of. Speaking of tech in a more
positive way, there's a nice second, but and we're sort of
talking before about the festivals, the events, how in

(30:04):
the pandemic you made-up a digital moved online.
Tell us a bit about the actual process of that.
Like you obviously have your app, you'd I'm done a great, an
amazing job on tech talk. So obviously I have quite a lot
of followers on tech talk. You're making a lot of videos,
getting a lot of engagement. Tell us about how all that all
works and and sort of how that all came back as well.
Gosh, I mean, that's, yeah, a really long journey.

(30:25):
So yes, tech creating a tech company is quite difficult, I'd
say. There's so many elements to it.
One of the famously, apparently if you work in the tech world,
you know this, but I didn't knowthis obviously, apparently one
of the hardest things to do is to get people to download an
app. And so therefore marketing is
incredibly important. When we actually said to a lot

(30:47):
of people we were going to startan app, they were everyone was
trying to convince us to create a website instead.
But in our minds, the personalized experience that we
wanted to give people, IE you'rea young person in Liverpool
looking for internships in the design industry that kind of
ideally would be done or best done via an app rather than a
website. And so we stuck to our guns.

(31:10):
We decided to create an app. And yeah, it is hard to get
people to download an app because there's a lot of
companies out there who have apps and they're all trying to
convince the same people that you are to download an app.
But I think what's been really great for us is that we are a
very intentional platform. We're not a social media
platform, We're not a shopping platform.

(31:31):
We are a platform that is going to help you with a very clear
and very specific problem. You are trying to get
experience, skills and a job in the creative industries.
And this app has hopefully everything that you need on it.
And so it's just been a really interesting kind of experience

(31:51):
talking to other tech founders, talking to other people that
have, you know, different types of tech, not just apps.
And I think we we actually have a very, we're very lucky in the
way that we've decided to solve a problem that is very specific
and actually a problem that a lot of young people have to be
fair and no one else has tried to solve before.
Because it means that we do havequite high conversion rate when

(32:14):
it comes to people wanting to use our app.
And also people are very loyal to us.
They do enjoy the experience because it does actually give
them something of use. Like I say, we're not trying to
get people addicted to a social media platform.
That's actually quite nice. So.
Yeah. And in terms of what you were
saying that you may weren't like, you know, they weren't
like tech experts and stuff. So how did that, how was the

(32:37):
process of that? Like did you have to educate
yourself? How did you get to a point where
you go starting a business and you know, we're gonna put go all
in on this and you know, we needto make money.
We need to like make this sustainable, like and build an
app and build a website. Like how how did that all work
out? What was the process there?
There's a lot of trial and error.
A lot of trial and error. We went out and found some

(33:00):
people who had built tech platforms before and then we
asked them some advice. Some of them gave us good
advice, some of them gave us badadvice.
But in the end, we learned some very hard lessons that we've, we
still live by today. Like I said at the beginning,
like the best lessons that we'veever learned are the ones where
you've made mistakes or failed because you just, you know,

(33:21):
exactly what not to do. So we went and found some people
that knew about tech, asked themstuff, decided, you know, based
on a number of opinions, what weshould do.
We raised investment to be able to build the first version of
the product. My business partner May is
unbelievable at design. She's, you know, does all the

(33:43):
design stuff. Eric, she's got an incredible
eye. And again, I think that was
very, oh, I'm very lucky that I've got her because she was
able to design everything. And that's one of the big
issues, you know, so many people, it is very rare that
people have such a good eye And,and I think that is something
that's been amazing. So she kind of created this
whole look and feel that seemed to be very effortless, to be

(34:06):
honest. But, you know, they worked very,
very hard at it. And then we, yeah, went and
raised investment. It was very difficult to raise
investment for the first round, but we did it because people
really believe in the problem. We actually have 17 investors
now, I think, and the majority of them either came from the

(34:29):
creative industries themselves. So they used to run like big
businesses in the creative industry.
So like, I don't know, big photography companies or
whatever it is, TV pro or TV, you know, channels and stuff.
So they know the experience, theissue that we're trying to
solve, or their parents. So many of them are parents and
they heard what we were pitchingand they were like, you know,

(34:50):
what my kid could really do withthis.
This is a really good idea. And so I think, again, it's like
the emotional side of Eric has always been an asset for us,
especially in the early days when, you know, we're going to
people being like, can you give us some money?
And then they're like, OK, what proof have you got?
And we're like Nam, but here's adesign, and here's a dream.
Well, this goes back to what we were saying earlier about

(35:11):
storytelling and creativity. Because even if you don't work a
completely creative job, like still create, you always need to
be creative no matter what you're doing.
And like, often businesses succeed because they have a
great story and people know whatit is.
They know what they know the story behind that.
I wanna ask you this. And, and also selfishly for me,
because obviously I'm in a, I'm at a point where I'm trying to

(35:31):
make this podcast more professional.
So for either myself or somebodylistening, how do you approach
an investor and basically say tothem, can we have some money,
please? Like how does that actually work
for somebody listening at home? That's a really good question.
First of all, it's gonna be embarrassing.
That's just something you have to, like, resign yourself to,

(35:52):
and you've got to try your pitchout on a number of different
people. This is such a funny story that
is a lot longer, but our first ever pitch, we actually tried it
to Maze Dad and he fell asleep halfway through.
So that's how bad we were and our story.
So like, that's where the benchmark is, guys, for your
first ever pitch, just keep themawake.

(36:14):
You know, you need to come up with basically, yeah, it all
rests on a pitch. So you've got to, like, get in
touch with an investor, which most people will tell you, you
need to have a warm intro. That's absolutely not true
whatsoever. All of our investors pretty much
have come from just random cold emails or just like LinkedIn D
Ming people because you just never know who is aligned with

(36:37):
your mission and and might have some cash to spare.
A lot of investors invest for tax reasons and frankly, a lot
of investors as well are very private about the fact that
they're investors. So they don't plaster it all
over social media or anything. So you just never know.
So we made it our mission to go out and literally message
everyone in the world asking them for money.

(36:59):
And we had a like vague pitch together.
A couple of people got back to US, one in every 50,000
probably. And then we ended up, you know,
finding people that just so happened to really care about
what we do for whatever reason. And then we had a little phone
call with them because we were raising money over COVID.

(37:20):
So everything was being done online back then, whereas I
think now it's a bit more commonplace to go and have
physical meetings with people and you do have to have certain
things together like numbers, projections, like all this
stuff. But also, I don't know, it is
all pie in the sky if you're if you're pitching for something
that hasn't even been built yet,which is what we were doing,

(37:42):
it's all just a pipe dream. And so frankly, if someone's
going to take the call anyway under the understanding the YAMP
built or product yet, they're probably willing to just give it
a punt. Do you know what I mean?
Don't get psyched out. I think that's one of the big
things is it's really easy to just psych yourself out of these
things and be like, I haven't even got a product.
People, I don't know, some people are really rich.

(38:06):
They don't mind if you have a product.
So but yeah, I think you've got to be prepared to fall flat on
your face as well. We have pitched to, I kid you
not, probably about 500 people over the years and we've got 21,
no, sorry, 17 investors. And then we've got a couple of
board members as well, advisors.So sorry, that's where they're

(38:28):
20. One.
Yeah, that's interesting. So yeah.
What and so obviously like you've done a huge amount of
work online presence along to gowith your app and stuff.
How there's a lot of people in the great vintage drink, a lot
of people realizing that even ifyou're a comedian or you work in
TV or whatever, an artist, you kind of it's really helpful to
be online and to leverage that online thing for your.

(38:51):
I suppose it's that cringy thing.
If you have to sell yourself as an individual now, you have to
sell yourself as a bit of a brand now.
Like how have you guys sort of leverage social media in that
way? Because obviously you've got
quite a big following on tech talk.
Like you use LinkedIn a lot. I mean, they make sense because
they're places where young people go and are going to find
the app and find the jobs and stuff.
Yes, well, actually, so the divide is TikTok is for the
young people and then all of ouractivity on LinkedIn is actually

(39:14):
for the organisations or the schools that we work with.
So we actually are very intentional on both of those
platforms. One thing that because we've
done a lot of different stuff over the years on social media,
like we've tried a load of different tactics.
And I think the one thing that really stood out over the test
of time is you're talking to a specific audience.
You can't talk to everyone all at once.

(39:36):
And so we've decided to keep LinkedIn very much for like the
other side of the marketplace, which is, yeah, like I said, the
organizations in the schools, TikTok is, we're on TikTok and
Instagram. Instagram, the algorithm does
nothing for us because I think it really serves people who are
creating quite high quality content, quite like emotional

(39:57):
messages for us. We're quite functional.
All we want to do is just show people a window into the kinds
of opportunities that you can see on the app.
So I just go on and talk really quickly, less than a minute
ideally, which I struggle with because I do talk a lot.
So I try and get under a minute of me just summarizing one of

(40:18):
the opportunities that is on theapp.
And I think what again is so great about what we do is it's
serving a purpose. It's very specific, very
intentional, and it's it is quite functional.
You want to get into the creative industries and you're
looking for opportunities. Here's where you can find them.
And we don't have to do tick tock dances or trending audio in

(40:39):
order to communicate that message, which I have to say I'm
so grateful for because I honestly don't.
See trending audio by the way, it's a bloody mind feel like try
to put a real up of your episodelike oh God.
Anyway, that's how the other disc.
Honestly, I do not envy you because I'm like, God, the
simplicity of what we do on TikTok is great.
And I think that's just like, you know, it's basically we're

(41:00):
just giving people like functionally what they want.
We could do a lot more. We could be a bit jazzier, but I
don't think we need to be. The other thing though, which
I'd say about Eric, which I think really serves you guys
from the outside and it goes back to what we talked about
with AI earlier. It's very, it feels very
authentic because you've got that mission, you know what
you're trying to do so that thatmakes people go.
They know what it is. They trust them more.

(41:22):
That's it. Like we genuinely do get excited
about some of the opportunities that we find online.
Like, there's some crazy cool stuff out there.
And I think every time I find something that's really
interesting, I'm like, desperateto go and tell people about it
on TikTok as well. Like, because I'm like, the
world needs to know about it. It'd be a desperate shame if no
one knew this existed. So, yeah.
So I think the enthusiasm, one comment that I always get is the

(41:42):
enthusiasm comes through. That was another question I was
going to ask, like is a lot of the job and a lot of what your
business is doing is just constantly looking for these
opportunities to put them in theapp and put them on the website
and publish them. Yeah.
So this is actually, yeah, into the nitty gritty of like how the
app actually works. So we are not an an app like

(42:06):
other careers apps where they work with brands specifically.
And then the brands have to put their opportunities on the app.
On their app. We actually go and find, we
aggregate everything that's out there and then we put it on our
platform. So we do work with partners who
do want to put stuff explicitly on the app and directly.

(42:26):
But actually the majority of opportunities that we have on
the app are literally found by acouple of members of the team
who spend and their entire days scouting and scraping the
Internet to find opportunities that fit under, you know, all
the different creative industries, you know, all the
different types of opportunitiesfrom UK wide and remote to

(42:47):
incredibly niche local things going on.
Like that's literally they are the backbone of what we do.
And that's why we have over 10,000 opportunities on the app
at any one time, because we literally have people going out
every day and finding the stuff that's out there on the
Internet. That's mental 10,000 wow.
It's it's impressive, though, It's cool.

(43:08):
What this is a tough question probably to answer, but what
what's been the most challengingthing about running a business
and and run in someone like Eric?
That is a tough question. I think the difficult thing is
like constantly like knowing that you have so much to learn.
Like we have never got our ducksin a row.
I know that I probably shouldn'tadmit that.

(43:28):
It's like everything is always you never feel like you've,
you've kind of nailed it. Even though I think we've
definitely got to a good level with quite a small team.
I will say, you know, that thereare only eight of us and that
includes May and I, but it just,it always feels like you're just
running uphill. And I think that can get a bit
tiring, but it's also emotionally, mentally

(43:52):
exhilarating as well at the sametime, because there's nothing
more that feeds the soul more than learning.
It's just sometimes you're like,I could really just do with like
just not learning for like a day.
Yeah, yeah, What's the sort of goal for you then?
Then like, I know that's also probably really hard thing to
answer, but like, do you have, because obviously running
something so intensely, like it's tiring.
It's I kind of feel like runningthis sometimes or, you know,

(44:14):
working as in a sort of quite uncertain freelance industry.
Like I love it, but it's sometimes quite tiring.
Sometimes you're like, I want togo home and not be thinking
about this thing and I can relax.
And it's like constant juxtaposition.
But how how does. Yeah.
What's the sort of aim and how do you navigate that?
I think the aim, like the aim for the business.
You mean just like in general, like the goal?

(44:34):
Yeah, I suppose the goal and I know that's such a the probably
The thing is like there's not anend point.
A lot of these things, there's ajourney and there's so many
things you want to do. So it's, it's hard to define
that I guess, but I suppose, yeah, try to, yeah.
Yeah, no, I'll get that guy. I think like for May and I like
we do just really want to make apositive mark on the world.
Like that's ultimately what our aim is.

(44:56):
And we always say that if Eric shut down tomorrow, which we're
desperately hoping it won't, butwe would still feel like we made
a substantial mark and we did something good with our time.
And I think that's what's very important is that, you know,
like our drive is always missionLED.
It's it's never been financial. You know, there's a reason that
we've been doing Eric for this long.
If it was financial, we would have given it up on year one,

(45:18):
but we're still doing it as testament to the fact that we
don't have any financial goals whatsoever.
Really. Any investors listening?
Don't worry, we do have some financial goals.
I think, yeah, ultimately I would love to make, I mean, my
personal goal is very like education driven.
I feel deeply frustrated with the UK education system.

(45:39):
I think it should just generallybe more connected with industry,
not just the creative industries, every industry.
I think it is absolutely like insane how industries in
general, the economy is not justplugged into education.
Like that baffles me. It doesn't make any sense.
And so my personal goal is literally to change that,
starting with the creative industries.

(46:01):
I would love to make an impact and have Eric make an impact on
connecting those two sides more because I think we are actually
in a position where we could potentially move towards that.
And, and I think, you know, that's great, you know, but at
the end of the day, I think we've done a really good job as
well, like so far with very little, you know, people power,

(46:23):
just me and I really at the end of the day, doing it for that
long, you know it. I I feel happy with what we
created already. And that was brilliant.
And I completely agree with you with the education system and
stuff. There's so many things that just
it's, it's mad that like it takes people to have to come
along and you know, try and fix these things.
But that's also really inspiringand exciting as well.
And umm, one of the biggest bitsof feedback I get from this

(46:44):
podcast is people going, I just didn't know that.
Like it's so nice to just hear somebody be honest about their
pathway and you know, because we, the education system just
doesn't give you a lot of the knowledge on these things.
And obviously I know I'm coming at it from the creative
industries perspective, but evenjust things like how to do tax
return if you're a freelancer orany of these like things that
would just be so helpful. Like, yeah.

(47:05):
And just, you know, as you say, actually plugged into industry
and being able to get some sort of employment at the end of it
all and not just going for the university system.
Obviously there's some things that going for the university
system is brilliant at, but I always love to say in this show
that everyone's path is different.
So it's not a right way of doingthings.
And that's unfortunately not always the way that education
makes us think. I completely agree.

(47:27):
With that, yeah. I have some sort of more
specific questions I wanted to ask you as we start to wrap
things up. But the first one is why do you
think money makes young creativeis so anxious?
And, and why do you think young people, because I know you
predominantly work with young people through your app and
stuff. Why do you think they're so
anxious about creative careers? Is it that thing we talked about

(47:48):
the start or do you think there's other things as well?
I think the creative industries hasn't really done a very good
job of debunking this myth that creatives get paid nothing.
And I think a lot of that is data LED.
I think that there's some kind of wacky data going on at the
moment that kind of skews thingsin the wrong way because things

(48:10):
aren't being measured correctly and they never really have done
in the creative industry. So therefore, people like young
people, parents, careers, people, schools, they all have a
misperception of finance in the creative industries.
However, on the flip side, I do think that finance in general
for young people is, is a deeplyworrying topic.

(48:30):
You know, wages are not going upin line with inflation like
that. That alone is, you know, like
not great. You know, if you're a young
person looking to get into your first ever job and you're
looking at the prospect of, well, ideally hopefully renting
somewhere as well so that you can kind of move out of the
family home. That's an absolute no go.

(48:51):
You couldn't do that because starting wages are not, are not
where they should be. And so I can understand
absolutely that young people arevery worried about finance.
And then with the extra layer ofmisinformation about the
creative industries, I think that is, I think that's a a
really scary prospect for a lot of young people.
Yeah, completely. Because this this doesn't allow
that social mobility. I think it's about risk as well.

(49:13):
If you can't, you can't afford to take the risk.
Going into this industry is a huge risk a lot of the time,
unfortunately, like, so startinga business, you know, it's a
huge risk and unfortunately a lot of people aren't in the
position where they can take that risk financially.
And that's, you know, it's quitesad.
The certain next question, I mean, ties into this.
And I always ask people to come on the show for their advice and
stuff, but what advice would yougive a young person

(49:35):
specifically, like if they are feeling lost in their career,
are lost in their what they wantto do of their lives?
OK, yeah, well, the advice, I'vekind of always got 2 bits of
advice that I think I wish that someone had told me when I was
younger, which is 1. Whatever you're doing now is
very unlikely to be the thing that you're doing in 5-10 years
time. Like careers more than ever are

(49:57):
meandering. And that's because there's.
Yeah, like there are way more jobs that you can do now than
there were 50 years ago, for a start.
Also, the Internet brings a whole world of possibilities
where you can discover new jobs that you didn't know existed and
also connect with people on LinkedIn, for example, and kind
of like uncover new worlds that you can get involved in.

(50:20):
You can find opportunities, you know, like on the Eric app,
obviously. But you know, I think my number
one bit of advice is always thatdon't worry if you if you don't
know what you want to do now, even if you did know what you
want to do now, it's probably not going to be what you're
going to do in 10 years time anyway.
So you might as well just like go with the flow, just like
whatever opportunities come up, if you feel like they are

(50:43):
interesting enough, just say yes, even if it's not what you
envisioned you would be doing because you never know where it
might lead you well. The question was, what do you
wish you knew when you started Eric that you know now?
Yeah. Oh, OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do I wish I knew now when I
started Eric? I wish I knew how much longer it

(51:04):
was going to be. Not because I don't want to
still be doing it, I just think mentally to be able to prepare
to still be doing it 11 years later.
I think that's a lot of time. But no, I, I think, I also think
I, I wish earlier on I'd valued working, being able to work with
my best friend more. I think when we were younger we

(51:25):
were a bit more carefree and I think it would have been really
fun to be able to like, enjoy that time a bit more.
Maybe not. Be sure it's hard though.
It's hard to enjoy the journey and then somebody's really back.
You're like, oh, that was actually really nice.
I wish you'd been a bit less stressed out, but no, it's
really hard this actually. You'll love this question
because we're kind of touching it, but what?
What do you wish careers advisors or schools told young

(51:46):
people about the creative industries more?
Oh OK, first of all, I love careers advisors.
They are my people. Like we have like a in, in the
community, a vibe with them. And actually I want to like just
take the opportunity to shout out to all the career advisors
out there because they are doingthe best they possibly can with
incredibly portals, no finance and no time.

(52:09):
So they are they are trying the hardest, I think schools in
general. So I think careers advisors are
doing the best that they can. Schools could be doing more of
an effort, I think to, I think they could be connecting more
with their local community, creative community in order to
be able to actually get people in and properly talk.

(52:32):
Because I do think that they, I think that schools have more
local creativity than they realise they do.
And actually that could do the job for them in a way.
Like they have tools at their attheir disposal, but I don't
think they really realise it. No, for sure.
You got your ambassador thing running as well.
Do you want to quickly talk about that because I think that
really touches on that as well you and it's a great initiative

(52:55):
I think. Thanks.
That's actually the brainchild of May and her team.
So we basically work with organizations that are doing
amazing things, mostly charitiesthat have like less than 20
people that work for them and they are like a championing
cause, causes that are either inthe creative industries or
adjacent to the creative industries.

(53:16):
And we basically give them access, completely free access
to the Eric app as an organization to be able to
promote all of their initiativesand programs as much as they
want. Because because those kinds of
organizations, the small ones donot get enough recognition and
they are quite hard to find often because they have
literally no marketing budget. They don't have any money to be
able to get their message out toas many young people as they

(53:38):
can. So whatever we can do as a
platform to be able to champion them like we, that's what our
ambassador scheme is all about. Brilliant.
No, it's a great scheme just to flag for people watching listing
if you're on YouTube or Spotify or wherever you are, like
there's links to all of the Ericstuff and the show notes, the
podcast. Go and download the app.
If you're a young person, if youwant to go on their website,
find out more. If you want to be an ambassador,

(53:58):
if you're an organization, all that stuff is below.
Yeah, please click the link. And I also want to ask you as
well, what the biggest lesson you've learned in your career so
far as well. I'm sure you've had so many.
Yeah, that's that big question. What's the biggest lesson?
I think ultimately the I will say this, but anyone thinking
about running a business, the entrepreneurship world can take

(54:21):
themselves so incredibly seriously.
Don't get sucked into it, Just don't.
It honestly doesn't do anyone any favors.
And especially when you're doingsomething, you know, that is, I
don't know, I don't want to undermine what we do because it
is it is very serious for a lot of people, but we're also not
surgeons, you know, doing heart surgery.

(54:43):
And so I think often lots of entrepreneur people, founders
can forget that, you know, regardless of what their product
is and therefore kind of forget to laugh at themselves.
And I think that's one of the best things that actually that
may and I have been able to maintain because of our
friendship is that everything, nothing is too serious.
You know you've got to be able to laugh.
Don't get sucked in. Don't drink the entrepreneur

(55:05):
kool. Aid, and there's a lot of it
around these days. Yeah, I have to sometimes catch
myself saying podcast entrepreneur buzzwords and I'm
like, oh Christ, I hope I'm not saying too much of A blank.
This is a tough question to answer as well.
But we kind of touched on a few things throughout this episode
about government and things, youknow, things we could do to
improve things. But if you were in government

(55:25):
for a day and you could just change one thing tomorrow about
the way that the creative industries operates, what would
it be? Oh.
That's such a good question. I wish I had a really like well
packaged up answer to that. I think I would make it
compulsory like Lee. It is a legal requirement for
creative businesses with more with like a / a certain amount

(55:50):
of turnover or people in the business to go to a local school
or go to schools and go and do talks and get involved in the
education system. Because I think that alone would
spread the message incredibly quickly about what the reality
of the creative industries is like.
Not really good. Well, hopefully that can happen.

(56:11):
Who knows? We'll see.
Be great. Be good mental health I want to
touch on as well or mental well-being or however you want
to describe that. But I'm trying to talk about
this anyway because I think it'svery important.
You're obviously you touched on how often you feel like you're
running uphill. It's a very stressful running a
business and you know, employingother people.
We've got people working for you, which is mad and you know,

(56:31):
you're running this entire thing.
How do you personally sort of look after your mental
well-being while doing that? I think, you know, May and I
being able to support each otheris a really big thing and that's
an absolute luxury that also notnot everyone has, you know, not
everyone has a Co founder. I can't imagine how hard it is
actually doing it by yourself tobe honest, because some of the
low days are really low. I removed all of the bad things

(56:53):
from my life in a way. I know that's quite radical, but
I like moved to, I actually livein Scotland.
I moved to the countryside or kind of the countryside in
Scotland. Yeah.
I'm just outside Edinburgh when I was living in London and then
Brighton. And those two places are great,
but incredibly hectic and they were just detrimental to my
mental health. So I actually, you know, without

(57:14):
being too dramatic about it, I basically was just like, I can't
live in a fast-paced place like that.
I have to go and live slow pace of life in order to like
compromise with the fast pace ofwork.
So I now live, you know, on the beach.
It's fantastic. I get to like, you know, I've
got a dog as well. So I've got dog therapy on a
daily basis. And it's just like I had to

(57:35):
sacrifice a lot of stuff. Don't get me wrong to do that.
Like I had to leave my friends down South, for example.
And you know, I, I don't know, like there's a quality of life
that I get here where I am that I could never ever even close to
a Ford down South. But to me that was more
important because it means that I can sustain my mental health

(57:56):
on a daily basis. And actually I'm happier for it
and I don't, I don't regret it at all.
I think it's a great, it was a positive decision for me.
And I think actually it's very hard to make this change sport
you start, once you start deciding these things, you can
do it. It is scary but but ultimately,
if it will make you happier, it makes you happier.
Yeah, well, listen, I'm from. I'm a Fifer, I've got a big soft

(58:17):
spot for the East Coast of Scotland, so it's a fantastic
place to move. So it's a great, great decision.
I think I'm a bit biased, but no, it's great.
Good to hear a lot of people moving from London to Scotland.
Honestly. It's always, you're always
pushed to do the opposite in this industry often.
So I always love it when people tell me that.
So that's nice to know. One more sort of question for
you before we sort of wrap things up.

(58:38):
And it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you.
I've loved this conversation. But you work very closely, you
have a Co founder and and you'reprivileged that it's a close
friend in May. But for somebody that maybe
wanted to start a business or start a company or something and
they want to collaborate with someone else, what do you think
is the best thing to look for inour collaboration?
Such a good question, good communication, a willingness to

(59:00):
say sorry, a willingness to admit that maybe their way isn't
always the best way. That's a lesson that May and I
had to learn quite early on in our relationship because it's
easier to do that, I think, witha friend because you can kind of
like break it to each other gently.
You're like, sorry, but you're that's actually a bad idea.
And sometimes that's quite hard to take, but it's nice coming

(59:22):
from a friend. But if you can find someone with
that emotional intelligence to be able to be like, I'm just
here to do the best for the business.
I'm not here for an ego. Like that's what you should look
for. Ego is a massive red flag when
you're trying to run a business because no decisions will ever
be made for the good of the business.
It's a brilliant place to end things on.

(59:42):
Sam. It's been an absolute pleasure
chatting to you. What's up next for Eric and
stuff? Do you want to quickly plug
anything before you wrap up? Oh, only my tick tock.
Whoo, go follow us on tiptoe guys, the Eric app, What's next
for Eric? We're actually creating a new
onboarding, which means that basically you'll have you'll get
more a better personalized experience when you sign up to

(01:00:05):
the app. So anyone who is signing up from
now on and also actually anyone who's already got the app
downloaded, they'll also be something that pops up is a very
exciting new location based. Making coming up so basically
there's a cool new version of the app available in a couple of
weeks time. So hopefully you guys will get
access to that. Brian, Sam, thank you so much

(01:00:25):
for your time, honestly. Really inspiring what you guys
are doing over Eric and it's a pleasure to have you on the
show. And it's just great to see
things like this and our industry.
I think we need it badly. So really appreciate all the
what you're doing. Thank you for having me.

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EP. 175 - 'Building a Better Future for Young Creatives' with Sam Hornsby (ERIC App)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP. 175 - 'Building a Better Future for Young Creatives' with Sam Hornsby (ERIC App)