August 8, 2025 • 49 mins
This week on Just Get A Real Job, Jamie sits down with actor, playwright, comedian and rising Fringe star Sanjay Lago 💫Sanjay is currently performing his solo show Love Me Like a Chai Tea Latte ☕️ at the Edinburgh Fringe 2025, a heartfelt mix of storytelling, poetry and stand-up exploring love, identity and self-acceptance.
💬 We chatted about:
🎟️ What it’s really like taking a solo show to the Edinburgh Fringe
✊ Why POC and neurodiverse representation still needs work in Scottish theatre
🧠 Sanjay’s journey with dyslexia and how it shapes his creative process
😰 Managing imposter syndrome as an emerging artist
☕️ Making your mum proud
🔗 Links:
🎫 Book tickets for Love Me Like a Chai Tea Latte at the Edinburgh Fringe: https://www.edfringe.com/tickets/whats-on/love-me-like-a-chai-tea-latte
Sanjay Lago on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sanjaylago?igsh=MWN2MWdvNjZjbDh4
🌍 Visit our website: https://linktr.ee/Justgetarealjobpodcast
💙 Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/justgetarealjob
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🎧 Listen on:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, I'm Jamie McKinley, and thank you for tuning in to
another episode of Just Get RealJob.
We are live at the Edinburgh French with the wonderful Sanjay
Lago for this week's episode. Thank you to Assembly for
hosting us and for supporting the show today.
It's a pleasure to be here and Ihope you enjoy this week's
episode. Sanjay Lago, how you doing?
Thank you for coming on. All right, William Jones.
(00:20):
I know, thank you. I know even I'm like Oh my God I
show more shorts today. It's very sorry.
I don't think I've ever recordeda podcast for Sunglasses On, so
this is a very new experience. But yeah, it's kind of fun.
I mean, it's nice compared to what's coming on Monday.
Apparently a storm. Yeah, Storm darling, but I shout
it as well as assembly for hosting us today and there's
some brilliant shows including Sanjay's on assembly this month
(00:42):
at the Edinburgh Finch. So be sure to go and see them.
But Sanjay, do you want to for the listeners to sort of
introduce yourself? You obviously doing a show this
month and you're very, you know,big part of the sort of Scottish
theatre community as well. Yeah.
Oh, wow. Really?
So my name's Sanjay Lago. I am an actor, writer, host and
having been a comedian for the last couple of years and I am
(01:02):
doing my Fringe debut and also my Scottish debut in a way of my
show called Love Me Like a Chai Tea Latte, which is on at 4:20
every day at Assembly Box exceptthe 11th and the 18th.
And yeah, it's been, it's been ajourney.
It's something I'm really excited about to finally be here
doing a show because I've workedin front of House box office on
(01:23):
the mail for the actual Fringe. Then I was front house
supervisor at Summer Hall for two years and I've always wanted
to do my own show. And it's just, yeah, this year I
became the recipient of the Assembly Art Award, so it kind
of like all slotted into place really nicely.
So it's really exciting to be here.
Yeah, and you did this show at the Soho Theatre this year as
well. So I've been doing it down in
London and some big places. So it's a nice, it must be nice
to be here. Yeah, home country.
(01:44):
Yeah, because all my work's beendown South and the other times
I've done this show has been in Lighthouse, the bookshop, which
shout out to Lighthouse because they are a brilliant space that
really gives space to like, emerging art is minority voices
that we don't hear. But it all started like way back
in the Vaults. And then to take it to Soho,
which I love Soho they are. They changed my life during
lockdown through the Writers Lab.
(02:06):
To now be here, it's like, yeah,it's nice.
And it's also nice because a lotof my friends have never seen me
perform, so this is going to be like a first for them, so
hopefully they'll like. It well, look, we're going to
talk all about your show today, but we also want to talk about
you, your career. Like we love having different
voices on the podcast and different people from the
creative industries. So it's great to have you on.
But to start us off, you cast your mind back.
(02:28):
Tell us about your sort of earlyinfluences.
Were you always interested in the arts or tell us about a
young Sanjay? So might go a bit dark, but I
used to be a very quiet person. I got bullied quite badly in
school and it was my drama teacher Mr Viorski, who is now
one of my friends, who sent me on this confidence building
(02:48):
course called Keys. Keep empowering Yourself to
Success. And it was like an 8 week
programme between two schools. All the sectarianism they framed
it as, but was actually about building confidence.
And then I was actually going togo into the arts, I was actually
going to go into law and translation.
So at one point in my life I spoke 7 languages.
(03:10):
Can you? Still speak anything?
No, I went to Paris in June and all I could really remember
saying was croissant. All I wanted was a hot chocolate
and a croissant. But then I realised, like for
me, I love acts like Christie sort of been great to like be in
the court of like it was her. Where's the hem?
(03:31):
It was hem. It wasn't her.
Then I realised I'm quite a physical person but I was very
in the closet. But I feel like slowly drama
helped me be who I am today. And then I lied to my parents
and told them that I missed the deadline for UCAS, for the law
degree. And then I was like, but there's
this college then acting and performance and I did all the
(03:55):
additions and I got into second class college and it was three
years. It was brilliant, Learnt a lot,
then genuinely missed the deadline to apply for drama
school and I'm like what am I going to do for a year?
So I became student president ofthe college because why not?
And whilst I was student president I was doing like
evening classes and the conservator and then I got into
the conservator but I got told Iwas too political for the acting
(04:16):
degree. So I did 4 years of a degree
called the B Honours and Conservative performance
practise, which was a journey initself, but that's a whole
podcast at another time. And then my whole practise has
been about uplifting voices thatyou don't see.
Like I changed as an actor, but I've never been cast in
Scotland. I've had in the last 14 years,
less than 10 editions in Scotland.
(04:38):
All my work's been down South. So my passion's always been
about coming to Scotland, showing that Asian actors do
exist, POC actors exist and I feel sometimes I do have a lot
of boxes, but I want to make space for future generations
because I'm currently doing a master's part time.
Well, it's an offential all about arts education.
And for me, it's all about making space for those future
(05:00):
generations because if we don't show them now that they exist,
then you will lose a whole generation of POC artists.
So that's been my journey to where I am now.
And it's been tough. It has been tough.
Like when you are, you don't getseen or you get typecast as like
a terrorist, a shopkeeper. Even though one of my friends,
John Lockdown was like, he wouldn't cast me as a terrorist
(05:20):
and A and a play or a film. And I was like, why not?
He's like, you're too gay. And I was like, well, that would
be a great film. The gay terrorist.
I mean, I'm going to blow you up.
So it's also like I became a writer thanks to Sophie, a
writer that because I just wasn't seeing myself
represented. I wasn't seeing my community
represented. So I thought making those
stories, but then it comes that comes with like extra added
layers because it's how you're restarting, you're trying to
(05:43):
build. So yeah, it's been tricky and
tough, but I'm so grateful to people that have like supported
me and been there for me because, yeah, it definitely
takes a village to be an artist.And I'm so grateful to my family
and my agent and my friends thatlike, help me be here.
But that's why I do it is because I'm always thinking I
didn't grow up see people like me on the stages and screens.
Like even in my show, I say I'm not named after Naveed Sanjeev
(06:05):
Kohli because that's where everybody thought that's how the
age actor was. And I'm like, there's others out
there. I want to make those stories for
future generations. And also I want to get the
Scottish voice out there becausethere are there's not many
Scottish Asians on our stages and screens.
But even when you go London's, like where are those Scottish
voices? And also Scottish isn't just
white. No, like I'm 4th generation.
My family came here just before World War One.
(06:28):
My Gran was the first Asian to be born, one of the first ages
to be born in the 1940s and the South side of Glasgow where
we're from. So Scotland, when the theatre
pushes Scottish voices and you'll see white people, I'm
like, that's not representing Scotland for me.
It's actually a modern day Scotland.
So that's why I do what I do because I'm, I want to inspire
future people to be like, this is for you as well.
(06:49):
There's so much to unpack on that.
Loads of great stuff. I just want to say as well for
the listeners, thank you know, we are recording at the French,
so there's music playing in the background, there's ambience.
We are not copyright any of thismusic as well as if anyone this
is on we record and they played it.
So, you know, we're not sponsored by any of these
artists etcetera. And there won't be any dance
breaks happening. I want to pick up on this sort
(07:09):
of making space in the industry and stuff.
It's always a very hard time. As you say, there's not a lot of
always voices coming through, whether that be in theatre, film
or whatever. And I think especially in a cost
of living crisis with funding cuts across the board, it's
really hard. So do you have a sort of sense
of what the industry's like at the moment, especially working
in theatres? But, you know, it's interesting.
You're saying a lot of your work's coming down South and
stuff, but you sort of want to, you know, be more up here.
(07:31):
How have you sort of found the landscape recently?
It is tough, but I feel like it's slowly changing.
And I say slowly because it feels slow because we're only
now seeing S Asians on our screens, not in stereotype
roles. Yeah, but my issue with the
(07:52):
Scottish theatre is when you seepeople of colour, actors, say
someone's casting and they put us all into one, it's like we're
looking for a Baymax, we're looking for a POC actor.
And it's like, but my community is different to the black
community. The black community is different
to the East Asia community. And when you get us all
together, it's like, oh, and then it's like, I feel like they
(08:13):
kind of pick and choose who theywant to say, well, look, we've
got one person calling the wholecast.
We're fine and it shouldn't and.It's like, yeah.
And I feel like why can't you have like, I think of the Rez
Ahmed 3 stages that he talks about where he's like, the first
stage is you are stereotyped. You're just getting stereotyped
drilled. The second stage is you're still
being, you're so Asian, but you're not saying that.
(08:36):
And the third stage is you're just an actor.
And I all, I was at an event last year at NTS, but I said
when you're training, you're allactors, you're all performance
makers. But then the minute you leave
the industry, if you're white, you're still an actor.
But if you're black, you become a black actor.
If you're Asian, become a South Asian actor.
And it's like our skin colour becomes the first thing before
(08:58):
what the train does. Or like in my case, it's like,
oh, he's a clear size Asian and I'm like, I'm just an actor, I'm
just a person. Why do why do I need to be seen
for the boxes that I take, if you like, and not just for the
scouts. And my dream, like I even say
this in my show is the reason I do this is my dream is just to
make my mum proud and proud to see me on stage.
My mum's never seen me perform in Scotland.
(09:20):
The last thing she seen saw me do was 6 / 6 years ago.
It was my degree show and. She coming?
She's coming on Tuesday. Yeah, I talk about all of that
stuff and I'm really nervous. But yeah, I like, I would love
to just have a chance to go and perform at the Trav or the sets,
but I feel like there's not opportunities.
I think it comes out a couple ofthings.
(09:40):
It's come for me. It comes down to writers
understanding that a guy from Bangladesh can play Dave.
It comes down to casting. To think if you see a white
Western name that they don't have to be white, they can be.
So it's, and it also comes down to theatres taking a chance.
I only ever see South Asian artists during fringe.
(10:03):
It's the only time. But then the rest of the year
I'm like, where are they? Where are they getting seen?
So the landscapes tough. And I think those are the areas
I'm like, we need to see changesis like when it comes to the
right and take chances that thatdoesn't need to be a white
person. But also when it comes to
casting, don't just bring us outand be like, right, we saw 5%
more people of colour Give us a chance and open calls.
Like don't just put us on our list.
(10:25):
Actually follow through with it and be like, oh, I remember this
person and for 14 years, one of my friends yesterday was like,
she's my producer, Val. She was like, if you see someone
else, you know you're going to say hi and you're going to walk
on. And then she asked me, he's
like, how do you know to my people?
I was like, when you work your ass off and you need to network
(10:45):
and essentially you need to be seen, and I've been doing that
for years. Well, I feel like if you touch
on that, you know so many peopleI know.
So when I was coming to do this interview, everyone's like I
know Sanjay and you go in the meet yous on Instagram, it's
like, what the hell is mad? So you've done a good job of.
You know, it's been, it's been hard work, hasn't it?
Yeah. And it's hard work.
And then the other sad thing is that when people know you, but
(11:06):
then bring someone up from London, it's like, oh, but you
never saw me for that. I could have, I would love to
have a different flat. I think for me and I even say
for other S Asians that just give them a chance.
Now how do we know if we will begood enough if we don't have the
chance to fail? Yeah, yeah.
You don't have that chance to grow our skills.
I think that's a huge firm across the industry.
It's so risk averse that like often we don't, we just don't
(11:29):
have the unfortunately, the moment I don't have the money to
take a risk on a show and it could be bad, or take a risk on
a new, you know, new talent and they could fail.
But the only way you learn is byfailing.
And that's how great art gets made.
I think for me it's also about like opportunity as well, like
just giving someone that opportunity can be life
changing. They might learn something.
They might be like, actually I'mmaybe not an actor, maybe I want
(11:52):
to be the director. I can't enjoy what they do.
And also I do sometimes feel like the in Scotland can feel a
bit clicking. It does.
I think this problem with the arts is it feels very exclusive
and there's too much. I think often there's too many.
I've kind of been wrestling a lot with this, but I'm really
sort of, I don't think I like this whole talent scheme
initiative thing we have becausewe're just basically you do
(12:13):
these schemes, but there's no guaranteed employment after it.
And it put it's like, oh, these are the talent, these are the
talent. But then if you're not part of
that, then you. Yeah, and I also do feel like I
was at an event again, another networking event and someone was
like the arts was like a close up and I was and I was like the
person was too scared to ask thequestion.
I was like how it was like a panel of people like that ran
theatres and that. And I was like, how do you plan
(12:34):
on opening the shop? And I just felt like they didn't
really fully say the answers. They openly said like, oh, we
work with this person because we've got a good relationship.
They're my pals. And it's like, but how are we
meant to get a foot in the door?And I graduated six years ago
and I started like getting work.But COVID happened and that's
where I felt like I had to rebuild my career.
(12:55):
And that's how I went to the stand up comedy.
I went into the right in becauseI was like, the industry is so
different now. And also during COVID, I feel
like people forgot the ghost year of 2019.
I've said this to a few of my pals that graduate in 2019
because when COVID then happened, everything was being
pushed for 2020 graduate of 2021, which was fair because the
(13:16):
world was on lockdown. But you had a lot of people
graduate in 2019 who started booking work and then it all got
cancelled. But then it got recasted with
2020 graduate 21 to give them that opportunity.
So I'm also like, how do you? Yeah, I'm just thinking about
the ghost year of 20. 19 I had it on the podcast that week and
brilliant. Kate Coulson is doing a show
called Lioness this year at the Fringe as well, which people
(13:36):
should go and see, but she was talking about this idea.
Often we make work as well that's not for the average
person in society. Often as artists, not
deliberately, but I think our industry, often it's we're very
much like sort of showing off toour own industry as I don't
always make things open to people that maybe haven't got
access to that world. And then, you know, they like,
(13:57):
if you're from a work class background, you maybe don't go
and see a theatre show and then you never know about theatre.
So how are you ever going to work in it?
It's, I think that is quite a, yeah, a big issue as well.
I feel like it's really expensive, like how do you
expect? And I get we all need to pay
wages, pay buildings and that, but it's like it does steam at
times. Like it is hard to get those
audience in when the tickets areso expensive.
(14:18):
Like even for my friends coming through, like coming from like a
working class community, like a lot of them are only coming for
one day to see two or three shows and that's all they can.
Do. And then you factor in the
training, Yeah. And then getting food out, you
know? And let me tell you.
It's not. Cheap.
It's not cheap like friends. I've noticed people change their
menus. 4 friends. I just spent four couldn't a
(14:38):
flat light. I was like, what?
It's like that probably is the standard price these days, but
still. It's a flat light.
Yeah, I know. Could have made that nice.
Come on my show. You'll get a tea bag.
Yeah. I think let's just let's we'll
talk about your show in a SEC because another thing I want to
talk about is I know you're dyslexic and I'm dyslexic going
to talk about my dislikes and disspracts a lot on this
podcast. So tell us about that.
(14:59):
You're writers. I love when writers are dyslexic
because a lot of people go hike me be a writer if you're
dyslexic so. Yeah, so my journey finding out
that I, I got myself a new, They're delicious.
And I remember it was an artist who is a brilliant artist called
Abby Watson, who I was on my first year at drama school and I
(15:20):
did this essay and it was like 10 pages long.
And all through, like, school. I was told at school that I was
thinking stupid. A teacher said to me I'd never
get a degree. So I always made my aim that I
will get a degree. And I've got one now.
Yeah. And I remember I went through
college. My essays were like 18.
One of my longest essays was 18 pages long, about the ancient
(15:41):
Greeks past it. But I got through college, I got
my HND, went to RCS, and it was my first essay.
And Abby was like, Sanjay, can Ispeak to you after class?
And then I was like, oh, fuck, that's what I need to say in
school. Like I want to speak to you
after class. I'm in trouble.
What have I done? And then she just said to me,
Sanjay, I think you're part of the family.
And I was like, and in my head the first time I thought was,
(16:03):
you're white, I'm Asian. What family are we a part of?
I've only met you a couple of months ago.
What's going on? And then she's like, I think you
might be dyslexic and you're diverse.
I'm gonna get you tested. And I kid you not, I cried so
much the day I found out the results.
Not because I was dyslexic, morebecause my life felt like the
jigsaw pieces I'd found them missing.
It's liberating, isn't it? It really is.
(16:24):
You're you. What you live like is just
normal. Yeah, you don't realise.
So you you just assume everyone else must struggle as.
Well, yeah, I'm like, they're all there.
And over the years more and morepeople, you've got ADHD, you
really do not be tested for it. But I've had people that do test
people for it and they're like you do.
But it really changed my life. And I remember a moment was my
(16:45):
mum tried to translate to my Gran what dyslexia was.
But in Punjabi there's no language or dyslexia.
So my mum said to my Gran that he's Borailevich Kamzoria, which
translates into English as he's weak in his studies.
But she knew he's not weak in his studies.
It's just that's how you can translate it.
(17:05):
So it's also been interesting for me as a South Asian, how do
you translate what dyslexia is when there's no language around
it? But as a writer, it's an
interesting journey because I'm I'm someone who loves improv as
well. I love devising.
So like, even though my show is like a script, it's never is
(17:25):
quite fluid. It is about tough at times.
Like I don't speak in big words.Like I come through the South
side of Glasgow. I struggled in drama school
because everybody was like, oh, can you speak properly?
Oh, there's a flash. I never thought we'd get flies
on. There, you know.
This is there's flash sometime on there on this.
Episode I know I'm going to get I need a tan yeah but like it
(17:45):
was so interesting because I lost my train of thought we'll
talk about. Talking about dyslexia and.
Oh, dyslexia. Yeah.
Because in my head I just thought it was right.
And but as a writer, I found people that have found ways to
look after the dyslexia, how to look after myself as well.
And also, like I found a community of people that I could
(18:09):
like speak with and feel comfortable with because it's
tough as a writer, like at timesthinking if you've said
something right. But then again, like I don't
speak in the big words. I don't speak in big bourgie
words. Maybe why the Masters is a bit
hard because I'm really saying big words like criticality.
But for me, it's about being true to myself.
And I want to write stories again that are authentic and are
(18:33):
real. And I've always had a love for
autobiographical word verbatim theatre.
But yeah, it's, it's a journey. I'm still learning, but more and
more I'm seeing more Neodiverse.The art is coming out and it's
great finding ways to make yourself feel comfortable.
But yeah, it changed my life bigtime and changed it for the
(18:53):
better. And I know in stand how my brain
works as well. It's not everybody else's I.
Think that's really liberating when you realise like, oh,
that's why I'm tired all the time from this thing because it
takes me to process this. Yeah.
It's quite freeing because you're really arduous,
especially teenagers. You do feel stupid, especially I
teach us in the same life, you know, you just feel like you're
rubbish at stuff and you're. Yeah.
And I remember how it's a very dark story, but I remember when
(19:16):
I graduated and I had my degree from RCS and one of my friends,
like, you should go see that teacher said just if I can show
me when I get a degree. And I was like, yeah, but he's
dead. She was like, and then she
replied, go to his gravestone and waive your degree at his
gravestone. I was like, can't be doing that.
But it was in that moment when Igot the degree from RCS, that
moment did feel like a big two fingers up because I kept that
(19:40):
in my head. I kept on my heart going and I'm
I'm thinking stupid. I am, but actually I wasn't.
I just needed. She started on a belief not to
get to favour. Would you still have that deep
things? I think I still struggle that
you would have not been good enough.
Yeah, you do. And I think also when it comes
back to the arts, you do think, do like I do at times think when
I'm filling in forms, do I need to not talk about this angle
(20:01):
myself? Do I maybe talk about that?
Do I maybe not say this about myself?
So when you are queer, when you are new or diverse, when you are
South Asian, when you are working class, it's like how,
what? What do you talk about?
Because then. I remember someone said to me,
oh, when I graduated, oh, you'regoing to be a diversity dream in
the industry. And I was like, what do you
mean? You're like, Oh, well, you took
all these boxes and I was like, well.
You want to just you? Just want to be me because
you're good enough. Yeah, I want to like, and I've
(20:22):
wiped my ass off. I don't want to be there because
I'll look, they need an Asian. I'll look, they need a gay
person. I'm like, I just want to be me.
I had this weird thing recently and it's not a bad thing because
I think these schemes, I get they come from a good place, but
I was applying for a job and there was a you could take a box
if you had a disability like so if you're newer diverge like I
was, it would guarantee an interview if you met the minimum
requirement. And part of me didn't want to
tick the box. It's like I want to get an
(20:43):
interview on. Because on me.
Yeah, and I'm not. So I get the IT comes from a
good place and I'm I'm I'm mixedfeelings on it as a yeah, as
someone with neurodivergent, but.
It's nice the industry's also now talking about it a lot more
because when I think back to like 15 years ago when I was
starting out, no one really spoke about it.
Neurodivergent wasn't really a word.
It was like slowly emerging. So it's nice that there is that
(21:06):
community, but then there's thatthing of like, you don't want to
be brought in because you take abox for them.
And I think that's what I want to see change in the arts is
let's bring people on because they've got skill and like
they're kind, and not just because your theatre needs to
take a box. No.
Definitely. And I and I want to work at
home. I want to work in Scotland.
Like I don't like London's fine,not cheap but this is where I
(21:30):
trained and it's sad because a lot of POC artists leave
Scotland have to go and make a name.
Themselves. In general, yes, leave Scotland,
make a name for that. Then you're like, oh, you've got
this. And then it's like, well, you
don't want me like so. But I don't give up.
I like to keep going. And I always say like when I'm
teaching young kids, because I teach drama now and again, the
(21:51):
Conservative Party, I always saydon't just stick to one thing
because if you just stick to onething, then you are shutting all
other opportunities. Grow your basket, dip your
fingers into the things. And that's why I enjoy doing
somebody's like, how do you juggle so many things?
And I'm like, because if you just for me, if I stayed so I
did one thing, what would I be doing?
I wouldn't be getting the activejobs.
(22:12):
No one really rights for South Asians as much as Scotland.
So it's like I need to keep doing.
I need to keep doors open in other ways.
So yeah, that's what another reason, another reason why being
your diverse is great because I juggle many plays and then I'm
like, oh shit, how do I do these?
But yeah. But I want to go back to you
where you're from growing up in the South side of Glasgow.
And hey, that's influence you asan artist.
(22:32):
Like I love the South side I lived in.
To be honest, the South side of Glasgow I moved to three years
ago. It's probably a bit different
than the. South side?
What do you call the South side?What do you call you Shawlands?
I'm a Shawlands wanker, yeah. Design South side for me.
I moved there and I didn't know that this was such an up and
coming area. And then everyone was like,
coach, you live in Shawlands, you podcast wanker.
And I'm like, oh fuck yeah. But you know.
(22:53):
No, I, I, yeah, I don't like thereal size.
I live in Ibrox in the South side.
Yeah, yes, outside the river. And it was interesting growing
up there because, like, it was quite a diverse area.
My school was really diverse. And I think it was interesting
because I remember going to, my very first show was a panto and
(23:13):
that just, I was like, wow, whatis this?
And then the very first South Asian theatre show I saw was in
the tramway, I'm going to say 2006 or 7, and it was called
Hiranja. And it was like a Scottish South
Asian Romeo and Juliet at tramway.
And that really made me think this is what I want to do.
Even though I was like languages, just like hey, I'm
(23:35):
going to do a real degree, whichis a real degree, but that gave
me like that buzz to like go anddo the arts.
So yeah, it was great growing up.
And we've now got tour buses going down my street, which I
never thought I'd see the big red bus go down Ibrox and we
tourists taking photos on my house.
It's a very interesting day whenyou see that double Decker bus
(23:56):
go by your house. But yeah, I don't think I'd ever
leave Glasgow. Glasgow.
I think it's a really cool artistic hub.
I think there's some great things.
I think Edinburgh comes alive during the Fringe but for me,
year round I feel like Glasgow really does give great art and I
think that's why I'm a fan of Glasgow.
Yeah, I know for sure. Well, let's let's finally talk
(24:17):
about the show I keep alluding to.
Tell us about your your show at the Friends this this month and
and the journey it's sort of taken to get us here.
Yeah, so it's been a mad journey.
So it's called Love Me Like a Chai tea latte.
And I actually wrote it as a joke.
I wrote it as a joke on the train the day before it was
going on stage at the Vaults Festival in 2023.
Like I did all the promo, but I didn't write the show.
(24:39):
And then that 4 hour train from Edinburgh at the King's Cross, I
wrote it on there and I went on stage, had two nights at the
Vaults and it was like really busy audiences.
And then from that I was like ohthis feels good.
And then I did one night at the Lighthouse Bookshop in 2023,
again, just engaging an audience.
(25:00):
So I wrote it on the train and Idid two nights at the vaults and
really great audiences. And yeah, I wrote, I wrote
literally wrote it as a joke because I was like, I've dated
all these men and they're very weird.
And I've had some very like racist show is looking at dating
and racism. It's looking at just finding
love. And where do you find that love?
(25:22):
And it's got Bollywood, it's gotBritney Spears, it's got
Brookside, Doctor Who. Like it's a show basically.
That's my story, but fictionalised as well.
Yeah. Because as a writer, some great
advice I got was when you're writing autobiographical or be
an overbeat on device theatre from real stories, kind of
(25:44):
separating yourself. So that if you are doing like a
long run, like I'm doing off 25 shows, you're not like by the
end we're going, Oh my gosh, that's the guy.
So it's like keeping it fresh. So yeah, so I fictionalised it.
And so I did it in the vaults. Then after the vaults, I was
like, let's do a night at the Lighthouse bookstore.
So I did that and it went well. And then I thought, oh, OK, this
(26:07):
is cool. And then I'm a massive Doctor
Who fan. Like when I was younger, one of
my lecturers said to me, Sanji, you've got the brown pound, you
should use that. And I was like, what do you mean
by that? He's like, there's not many
people liking yessi, so go take life by two hands.
And I was like, yes, so I love Doctor Who.
So I went all the way to LA for a Doctor Who convention.
(26:29):
I thought, why not? Let's go to the other side of
the world. And it was brilliant.
And I got onto the Jimmy Kimmel show in the audience.
Yeah, I'd only been in the country 12 or 14 hours.
And then my friend's like, hey, sign up to this website, You can
be in the audience. And I remember it was insane.
So I was standing clapping because they just thing where
(26:50):
they're like, clap now, go on. And then they were like, right,
guys, so can we move you? Please?
Can we move you? And then they looked at me, but
I had my ruck sack on these and we went, he's got a bag.
Should I just leave him? Leave him.
We're fine. And then I was like, why?
What's happening anyway? OK guys, now Jamie's going to
(27:10):
stand there and I was like in front of me.
And you know that video of the guy with Jackie Birds and he's
like, Oh yeah, I felt like that.And my friend said to me, you
could tell that you were told tobe happy.
So then I was on the Jeremy Kimmel show and the guy who was
like the warm up act was a comedian who performs at the
Comedy Store in Sunset Blvd, which it was so far away from a
(27:34):
hotel, but my friends were like,you have to do it.
And I was like I but it's reallyfar and they're like we're
taking you. So I got a 5 minute slot, which
turned into a 22 minute slot when I did a bit of the show.
And what was really amazing about that was that was the same
place where like Ricky Goldberg,Robin Williams all got there
like comedy starts. So to be on that stage, I'm
(27:55):
like, hi, and I've done it. So that went well.
And then with the traction of the bookshop, Ellie, I thought,
well, let's do two more nights. And at that point I'd got into
my master's. So I was raising money for my
master's. So it was insane.
I did the first night in the bookshop, sold out, and I had a
reviewer in. And I remember this week so
(28:15):
clearly this was the Wednesday was the show, the Tuesday was
the show. And on the Thursday morning, I
was going down to London becauseI had an audio book gig with Big
Finish, which I was buzzing about.
And I was sitting on the train and at 8:30 AM an e-mail came
through. I got my first ever review.
And it was a five star review, which I cried at.
And the ticket woman came over and I was like, she went ticket
(28:37):
to me. I was like, yeah, so are you OK?
And I was like, yeah, I just gotmy first review and I got, I got
five stars. She's like, oh, amazing.
And then she came back. She went out and came back.
And while she was away, I got another e-mail saying that I'd
been nominated for the Birds of Paradise Emerging Talent Award
at the newer diversity Award. So I was crying even more.
Yeah. And then she came up and she was
(28:58):
like, what's wrong? And I was like, I got an award
nomination as well. That's right.
Well, if you go to El Forte, youjust sit there.
Now I'm not clinking and in my head I'm like L40, is that like
a shop in London like OL40 like hand creams.
And I was like oh, what area of London is that?
Because I wasn't thinking. She was like no, no, if you go
to carriage LCL 40. And she gave me a free upgrade
(29:20):
to 1st class. I cried.
I took all the free like mini biscuits, many cheeses.
I even took the mini oat milks 'cause I was like, this is
actually really cool if I want acup of tea in the hotel.
I'm saying it became a star and it was great.
And then did my audio book, cameback on Saturday night, Sunday,
went to the award ceremony, won the award, which was so shocking
(29:40):
because I'd only done one show at that point.
And I get a lot of imposter syndrome a lot.
I get a lot of doubt that I'm not good enough.
So I'm getting emotional stories, but I don't like like
like. Even being here, I'm like this
is. And it feels so surreal because
like when you hustle so hard andyou try and show me like you
exist you and in all these places, being like hi.
(30:03):
And that moment just made me feel like, OK, maybe there is
something here, but I still do get that impossible syndrome.
I still would even be here. I'm like.
Should I be here? Like even doing a friend show,
like say later on when you're performing, do you still get
that sense before you're going? Yeah, because I see so many
people that are so brilliant. I'm like, how am I here?
And I think when you come from aculture where the arts are,
pushes are clear because the Western culture doesn't really
(30:25):
push us and showcase us or it uses us as like jokes or like
gimmicks. It makes the things like, where
do you fit in? So that moment when an award
last year was really emotional and something that I've always
kept really close to my heart. And I'm really grateful to the
newer Diversity Review awards and the newer Diversity Review
because they were the first people that made me feel seen in
(30:47):
this industry. They were the first people that
made me feel like my work was worth something.
And then I came back to my second show and it was such a
nice vibe. And then?
Staying up just. And then after that, I then got
onto the Soho Rising, which was again a dream because I love
Soho. I was very weird to say hello.
(31:08):
And so when I got into the Soho Rising, it was a great moment.
And the people that supported megetting that opportunity, like
writing applications was really hard.
But as I dyslexic, let me tell you friends and all the emails,
I'm so glad. Like my producer now, Valerie
Andrews, who's a queen, and my friend Charlie Watson, my friend
Matt Cobbs, Angela, Maya Chadda,my partner Peter Anderson, all
(31:30):
these 5 legends that came on board.
And then my friend Neil from Sound, Jake from props, these
people came on board. They really helped me make this
feel less stressful and take things off me where I can focus
on the show. And that's what you want.
From a great about to enjoy the show.
Yeah, I find often and I've I'vedone live podcast of the Fringe
before and even doing this pain the scenes stuff.
I'm so bad at enjoying it because you stressed, but it's
(31:52):
on the train here today. I was like, I'm enjoying this
interview. I'm going to be behind the
scenes, the friends. This is an amazing opportunity
to like enjoy it. Don't make it stressful so.
And I'm a fun person. Exactly.
And we're here. And we got fun.
Yeah, come Monday, the start that's.
Got the sun? Coming I wish I wore shorts for
these trousers on violent, but I'm so grateful to people that
have been came on as my team whoI'm now able to enjoy my show
(32:16):
and enjoy the creativity off it because it's a lot.
You've got to do the flyering, you've got the emails, you've
got to like go meet people, you've got the networking.
Like it's a juggle. But Soho gave me that platform
again. I had two sold out nights at
Soho and people were shouting about the show and again a
moment from Soho that stayed with me.
It was my friend in the bar Caz was saying when they opened the
(32:40):
house on the nights my show, thebar all cheered and she was
like, in all her years working there, no one has ever cheered a
house opening call for someone'sshow.
And that was really touching forme because again, I do feel like
I again a lot, even during friends just now I get that
doubt of like, am I good enough?Like am I good enough to be
here? Am I good enough to be in the
(33:00):
arts? And that's another reason why I
have to go on the masters. The arts education masters is to
have a backup in the pocket. And I just want to have a
chance. And I'm hoping this fringe
something comes about. People see me and be like let's
chat because I just want to makework for people that we don't
see invoices we don't of. Course and it is a long journey,
so see, even if this month you don't, you know, have that
(33:20):
conversation and as much as you want it, like even your the
achievement you've had yourself,you know you'll learn from it
and you'll keep going. So it just slowly builds.
And having worked the Fringe in so many different capacities,
just being here has been a dream.
Yeah. And just have them work there.
And I'm so grateful to my agentsas well.
Who? Because Fringe does take you out
as an actor for work, but they're still pushing me and
(33:41):
they're still making me be seen.So shout out to Wintersons for
still pushing me and helping me get seen and supporting me doing
this. Because I feel like doing the
Fringe is also like a Scottish artist staple.
Like every Scottish artist has to do the Fringe at some point
in the life because it. Takes so much straight and it
doesn't feel very. Even though it's like very
stressful, it still feels like you need to take a laptop.
(34:03):
Friends. I'm only doing like a week, but
it's that thing of like when youare a Scottish actor, feels like
that one thing to do. So yeah, I'm just the journey
this show's been on to be here today.
I have at times struggled. I felt like I'm not good enough.
I felt like should have been doing this.
But I'm here and try not to be nervous.
Actually, it sort of brings me on to my next question for it's
about mental health. I'll talk about this in every
(34:24):
episode if I can, but how are you sort of protecting your
mental well-being this month especially?
Yeah, so mental health is a big thing for me.
There's mental health themes of my show and I talk about and
like mental health and like the impact of like racism and that
and my own journey. And the way I'm looking after
myself is taking myself out the show, chatting with friends,
(34:47):
sleeping, eating food, and also just doing fun things like not
that aren't friends related likegoing and reading a book with a
4 LB cup of tea. But what's happened to the UK?
Yeah, if you are looking for a good job, my show is sponsored
by Saint St Char in Stockbridge.They do an amazing chart in
Edinburgh. Highly recommend.
(35:08):
But for me that all my shows have an element of mental health
as well. So the other show that I'm
developing that I did at the Middle of Arts Festival last
year called Floating Along Silently is my Story and Suicide
and how I've. I'm here today.
And I think for me, it's always because I've been on that
journey of like bad mental health and that suicidal nature
(35:31):
of things in my life. I try to find the joyful moments
and the uplifting moments and I'm, I'm just trying to like
keep myself positive. I'm not, I've not had any
reviews, but like, I'm not touched with the nice.
But I'm also taking on what one of my friends said was it's just
one person's opinion, not let itto define my career because we
(35:55):
did it for 14 years and one person's view isn't going to
change all the other people thathave been shouting about it.
So it's about stepping out and doing fun things and enjoying
the moment. Really.
Yeah, it's hard. I'm gonna lie like, Oh my God,
because you want to go and see all your friends shows.
But I think I'll try and see as many as I can.
But I think this month it's about stepping back and having
(36:17):
Sanjay time, yeah. Well, do you want to look in the
camera and tell us where we can see your show as well?
Tell the listeners where they can.
See yes, please come along to the show.
You can see it at Assembly Roxy.I am in Roxy Boxy at 4:20 PM.
It's called Love me Like a try tea latte.
And if you're listening to this podcast in September or next
year or whenever it's 2026, sure, Sanjay will be performing
(36:37):
this somewhere else or doing something new.
So, you know, check out Sanjay'sworks are linked below the
podcast as always. And Sanjay, I also want to ask
you like, what were your big influences on the on the show,
but also on you as a writer? Like what other shows and
writers and stuff things you of?Course, that's such an
interesting question. I was speaking to my partner
about this and I think my shows very like the BBC show Worst
(37:00):
Week of my Life, which is not onTV anymore, but it was such a
hilarious show. People said my shows is it like
Fleabag and I'm like no. That was then talked about 2019.
That was everyone's buzzword. Yeah, and yes, it is about
dating, but and it is comical, but there's a darkness to it.
(37:21):
So I'd say because there's so many shows out there, but my
show's a mix of things. There's comedy, there's racism.
So it's like a mould of things. But I would also say, I try not
to say my shows like other things because everybody's
unique in their own ways and should shout out and proud about
(37:44):
everybody's work, everybody's uniqueness.
And that's one thing I'm trying to do during this Fringe is
shout out all the POC artists. There's my friend Lula who's a
brilliant artist who's made a website for artists of colours
to get reviewed reviews from audiences especially because
it's so hard to collate reviews when you leave.
And I, that's what I love about the Fringes.
Everybody's unique. And that's why I want to
celebrate is everybody's unique shows.
(38:05):
And I want to shout out all my POC pals that are doing all
their shows because it is tough when you I we do feel it like as
people of colour. And one of the largest festivals
has a very white fest. When I had one white artist
friends who put it on the story there.
And then another friend tagged me going see his show.
And my friend Mark was then like, yeah, I've noticed that
like where are the POC shows? So it's tough, but I'd say my
(38:30):
show is like about the worst week of my life is a bit like
Miranda maybe, but it is also stands alone and unique away
like all the other fab shows outthere.
Yeah. Thank you.
I've got a few sort of more specific questions, Fibre.
One of them is like, if you could, if you could do anything
right now to sort of change the industry.
If you had magic wand, you couldchange one thing.
(38:50):
What would you change about the industry?
Just one. Oh well, you know, in this
magical world you can't do it for.
I would open up the industry. I would open up the shop of the
industry where everybody in the industry gets at least one
credit and a theatre and gets a chance to perform with a company
(39:11):
and isn't a tick box. They are two sides so that
theatres and the companies open up to give chances and the other
people aren't just brought on because of their tick boxes.
Right. What's something you wish you
knew now that you didn't know atthe start of your journey to
become an artist? That the hustle is going to be
real, That this is not and this is not an empty plate.
(39:35):
Like you wouldn't go up to a buffet and expect someone to
fill your plate. It's not a la carte.
You need to go up and take that plate to the buffet and fill it
yourself. And you need to keep refilling
it because only then while someone see you and you'll have
the opportunity, but also don't do it alone.
And you don't have to be alone. There will always be people
there that will support you. And I on the end of that, find
your tribe, find your people that support you and the people
(39:56):
that shout out about you and do the same back for them.
Support them because. It's not one way thing.
We all need to support each other and as the arts are
getting tough, our money's getting squeezed.
We need to keep supporting and not use people as tick boxes for
your own games. But yeah, you're never alone.
Fill your own plate and find your people.
Similarly to that, like what's the sort of biggest lesson
(40:18):
you've learned in your career sofar as well?
What a hard question. It's a big question, I think.
I think one of the biggest lessons is, is don't let the
voice in your head get you down.Listen to the other voice.
That's how you can do it becauseshe can do it.
And I think of a piece of advicethat one of my lectures in
(40:40):
college is Saturday is no longerwith us doing a lamb said, I
remember I got a wee. It was only like a wee
background job, but was like constant work.
And it was over the summer holidays.
And I asked her should I do it? And she said to me, go for it.
And if we don't go for it and the opportunity might not come
again. And I think that was a great
list that I learned is like, just go for it.
Like in this industry, like sometimes some opportunities
(41:01):
might not come back again. So grab it with both hands and
enjoy it. And that's what I say with the
kids. It's some random noises in the.
French high assembly, yeah. So I think it's about enjoying
it and taking it by both hands and also not being a deck.
Do not be a pompous deck. We're all in the same boat.
(41:21):
We're all fighting to get jobs. Don't act as if you're better
than someone because you've got money, because you might speak
in better words, because you've had better training.
We are all in this industry together.
We should all be supporting eachother.
Don't be a pompous Dick. Be a kind person.
And like I say my show, be kind to others, but be kind to
yourself. So, yeah, I think that's
(41:43):
something I would say to our people just because you might
have so much more experience of money in that will be pompous,
be kind. And that's great, lovely answer.
And we brought this question back because we used to ask all
the time in the show. We recently brought it back.
But like, of course, the name ofthe podcast has just got a real
job. But what's the worst real job or
part time job that you've ever had to work to start paying?
(42:06):
So there's two that came to mind.
One was I worked when I finishedmy year as student president,
which in itself was tough because it was, it was a good
job with a bit of but I was one guy in charge of eight campuses,
32,500 students. So that was an interesting job.
But that contract ended and thenI started RCS in September.
(42:28):
So I went to a call centre and within the first week a
supervisor got sacked for throwing a stapler at me and
been racist and saying, oh, you're one of those ages.
We have like 100,000 gods kind of make up your mind and call me
an F&P in front of everybody. And I was like, I don't want to
come back to this job. And we would all promise you'd
(42:49):
get a £500 bonus when we left. And that was what year?
About 25. That was 10 years ago.
Still waiting for my £500. Yeah.
And then the second one that's friends related.
I won't name the company, but eight years ago I worked for a
company where I was doing 12 to 13 hour days and I got paid
£2.70 an hour. What the hell?
(43:09):
Yeah, didn't get a coffee these days.
I know can't even go to the pie maker and get a pie, but yeah,
£2.70 an hour and it was horrible because they wouldn't
give you a fridge so you had to constantly go buy lunch.
But then your lunch was 45 minutes and the queues are
insane. So by the time you got to the
front of the queue and got your food they were like where were
you? But, and the positive of that
job was I made some lovely friends and the person who ran
(43:32):
that company because I got into ITV News and I said to him I
would do the interview if you don't show my face or for me
from buying, they're like, yeah,yeah, sure.
And then I remember my friend running down and go to Sanjay,
the boss, stay away from me. He's not happy.
I was like, why? She's like, you were on the
news. I was like, yeah, but they
changed my voice and found me from my.
She was like, yes, but when you get angry, you get Uber gay and
you talk with your hand and yourhead.
(43:53):
So they saw me in my profile andI was fuming.
And the guy said to me, you willnever work the Fringe again.
And I was like, oh, OK, challenge accepted.
And the following year I went and worked for the actual fringe
and doing box office in the mail.
So I'd say those are my two worst jobs.
Oh, wait, can I add a third one?Actually, Oh, wait, I've just
remembered it was a Halloween gig.
(44:13):
The guy made out that Oh yeah, it's going to be brilliant kids,
everything. And they gave me a script which
was meant to be for like 5 to like 8 year old, but it was more
like 15 to 18 year old. And they it was in a place
called Winchboro. I've heard.
Of that, I've never heard of it.None of my pals had.
And how was? I said I've heard of that as if
like. Yeah, sorry.
(44:34):
Oh my God, I've been there. But it was so weird because
like, when I went, they didn't have a taxi service.
No taxis from Linlithgow would take me there.
So finally one time I was like, right, I'll just take you, no
worries. But then to get back, they had
this one wee woman who used her own car as a taxi.
And nobody, like, it's like I went through a portal, ended up
(44:56):
in Winsboro and then left and nobody would have heard of it
again. But they made me like, use white
face paint, black up my eyes andhave like a white cloak.
And my job, in the end, nobody stayed for the play that I was
hired for. So they're like, well, can you
just walk around and be like, Boo to people?
So I had to go out to people drinking pipes and pub, go Boo.
I'm a ghost. Do you want a hot dog?
(45:17):
So those are my three. Yeah, the three jobs.
Got paid more than 275 for that I.
Asked them for more money because I was like, so I've done
XYZ and I got them to pay me £300 more because I was like,
this is not what I was brought on to.
So yeah. So those are my good jobs, yes.
Lasandra, I've got one more question for you.
Thank you so much. No, thank you.
(45:38):
It's. So nice to be in this space I've
never recorded a podcast with. Sunglasses.
With the sun beaming down so. We show them our eyes.
Yeah, take off their eyes. The last question.
The last one. Yes, we do.
That take them off and you can see is like where that but
they're closing a question on the podcast.
What was your sort of closing advice for anyone that wants to
work in the creative industries,but particularly maybe take a
show to the Fringe or be an actor and writer let you?
(46:00):
I would say one like my lectures, like go for it because
the opportunity might not come again.
Don't be scared. Like it's not easy.
Like I ain't going to be like, Oh my God, come in.
It's great. Like if you are coming from like
a working class background, likebe ready to hustle because I
have found that like, yeah, the pompousness at times.
(46:21):
Have a thick skin. But also find your people.
Find those people that will be there for you.
And I'm so grateful to people that I found over my career that
have been there for me. But also, I would say don't just
stick to one thing. Like, yes, you want to be an
actor, brilliant. But currently like since like
the fleabags, the baby reindeers, solo work is so real.
(46:42):
Make your own work. Like you all have your own
stories. What excites you for people that
want to come to the Fringe, be prepared to be tired.
Be prepared to be walking a lot,flying in, but be prepared to
have fun as well. It's one month where there's
over 4000 shows, but also go to the book festival, go to the
(47:05):
International Festival, Film Festival, go support other arts
and have fun. But be ready to be tired and
take days off. Some people do the Fringe and
just do a straight run, recommend days off.
I've got two Mondays off, which even though I'm doing 12 days
straight and then a day off, buttake those days off because it
(47:25):
does get tired. And you're not just doing your
show, you're doing the market and you're doing social media.
You're doing flying in. Remember to eat at the front
desk. And Oh my God, meal prep.
Meal prep is a big thing. It's a game changer for general.
Like I started doing it for my week and it saves so much time.
And also like things are so expensive.
Yeah, I know. Like any level of Tesco meal
deals or a Boots meal deals. So I say meal prep.
(47:47):
So it's a once in a lifetime thing.
I think it will take me a while if I will come back yet because
I think there is all the implications of finances and all
that, but and obviously never. Yeah, and what's next after
you've got any plans for after the friend you're working people
would link to your Instagram andall that below and all?
That, yeah, we have no idea yet.We're going to see where this
(48:07):
goes. I would love to take on a Wii
tour and I've got. Friends Glasgow South side show.
Yeah, I would love to do it in Glasgow because I've got so
many. Friends, the real South side,
the. Real South Side, not Shawlands,
Ibrox. So yeah, we'd love to do a we
too. I'd love to take it to areas
that have strong queer communities, POC communities.
So if anybody's listening is interested in bringing me to
(48:29):
your venue, give me a call because again, we're not funded
as well. We've been doing a GoFundMe so
if you are. Still, is that still active?
We have kept it live till Mondaynow, so we have.
We closed by the time this episode, Yeah, but.
But if you want to do the same time.
Some money for me, the podcast, some money we have a patron as.
Well, so he's the name because Ifeel like I'm gonna, I'm gonna
(48:50):
back them up for a second. I feel like also like it's so
great being able to come and speak to you during the Fringe
because there's so many shows that how do you get the word
out? So I'm really grateful that
you've taken the time to come and speak to me because it's so
great hearing your podcast. I think the people you bring on
and just your real brutal honesty and your care that you
put for people like me to come and speak to you, It's like we
(49:11):
need more people like us, more space like that.
So, yeah, put some money in his Patreon because people like us
that are, is that are emerging that are, well, I say emerging.
I've been doing it so long. But people that are trying to
get the words out there, it's brilliant.
People like Jamie that give us that space to be heard.
So I am really grateful that youtook the time out also to meet
with me today. So, yeah, thank you.
(49:32):
Pleasure. Thank you.
So we put the sunglasses back on.
Enjoy the sun. Thank you.
Thank. You so much.
Thank you so much. Thank.
You assembly as well and a big thank you to Elliot Mitchell,
our editor, who's been doing thebehind the scenes for this.
See you at the. Show.
Hello, I'm Jamie McKinley, and thank you for tuning in to
another episode of Just Get RealJob.
We are live at the Edinburgh French with the wonderful Sanjay
Lago for this week's episode. Thank you to Assembly for
hosting us and for supporting the show today.
It's a pleasure to be here and Ihope you enjoy this week's
episode. Sanjay Lago, how you doing?
Thank you for coming on. All right, William Jones.
(00:20):
I know, thank you. I know even I'm like Oh my God I
show more shorts today. It's very sorry.
I don't think I've ever recordeda podcast for Sunglasses On, so
this is a very new experience. But yeah, it's kind of fun.
I mean, it's nice compared to what's coming on Monday.
Apparently a storm. Yeah, Storm darling, but I shout
it as well as assembly for hosting us today and there's
some brilliant shows including Sanjay's on assembly this month
(00:42):
at the Edinburgh Finch. So be sure to go and see them.
But Sanjay, do you want to for the listeners to sort of
introduce yourself? You obviously doing a show this
month and you're very, you know,big part of the sort of Scottish
theatre community as well. Yeah.
Oh, wow. Really?
So my name's Sanjay Lago. I am an actor, writer, host and
having been a comedian for the last couple of years and I am
(01:02):
doing my Fringe debut and also my Scottish debut in a way of my
show called Love Me Like a Chai Tea Latte, which is on at 4:20
every day at Assembly Box exceptthe 11th and the 18th.
And yeah, it's been, it's been ajourney.
It's something I'm really excited about to finally be here
doing a show because I've workedin front of House box office on
(01:23):
the mail for the actual Fringe. Then I was front house
supervisor at Summer Hall for two years and I've always wanted
to do my own show. And it's just, yeah, this year I
became the recipient of the Assembly Art Award, so it kind
of like all slotted into place really nicely.
So it's really exciting to be here.
Yeah, and you did this show at the Soho Theatre this year as
well. So I've been doing it down in
London and some big places. So it's a nice, it must be nice
to be here. Yeah, home country.
(01:44):
Yeah, because all my work's beendown South and the other times
I've done this show has been in Lighthouse, the bookshop, which
shout out to Lighthouse because they are a brilliant space that
really gives space to like, emerging art is minority voices
that we don't hear. But it all started like way back
in the Vaults. And then to take it to Soho,
which I love Soho they are. They changed my life during
lockdown through the Writers Lab.
(02:06):
To now be here, it's like, yeah,it's nice.
And it's also nice because a lotof my friends have never seen me
perform, so this is going to be like a first for them, so
hopefully they'll like. It well, look, we're going to
talk all about your show today, but we also want to talk about
you, your career. Like we love having different
voices on the podcast and different people from the
creative industries. So it's great to have you on.
But to start us off, you cast your mind back.
(02:28):
Tell us about your sort of earlyinfluences.
Were you always interested in the arts or tell us about a
young Sanjay? So might go a bit dark, but I
used to be a very quiet person. I got bullied quite badly in
school and it was my drama teacher Mr Viorski, who is now
one of my friends, who sent me on this confidence building
(02:48):
course called Keys. Keep empowering Yourself to
Success. And it was like an 8 week
programme between two schools. All the sectarianism they framed
it as, but was actually about building confidence.
And then I was actually going togo into the arts, I was actually
going to go into law and translation.
So at one point in my life I spoke 7 languages.
(03:10):
Can you? Still speak anything?
No, I went to Paris in June and all I could really remember
saying was croissant. All I wanted was a hot chocolate
and a croissant. But then I realised, like for
me, I love acts like Christie sort of been great to like be in
the court of like it was her. Where's the hem?
(03:31):
It was hem. It wasn't her.
Then I realised I'm quite a physical person but I was very
in the closet. But I feel like slowly drama
helped me be who I am today. And then I lied to my parents
and told them that I missed the deadline for UCAS, for the law
degree. And then I was like, but there's
this college then acting and performance and I did all the
(03:55):
additions and I got into second class college and it was three
years. It was brilliant, Learnt a lot,
then genuinely missed the deadline to apply for drama
school and I'm like what am I going to do for a year?
So I became student president ofthe college because why not?
And whilst I was student president I was doing like
evening classes and the conservator and then I got into
the conservator but I got told Iwas too political for the acting
(04:16):
degree. So I did 4 years of a degree
called the B Honours and Conservative performance
practise, which was a journey initself, but that's a whole
podcast at another time. And then my whole practise has
been about uplifting voices thatyou don't see.
Like I changed as an actor, but I've never been cast in
Scotland. I've had in the last 14 years,
less than 10 editions in Scotland.
(04:38):
All my work's been down South. So my passion's always been
about coming to Scotland, showing that Asian actors do
exist, POC actors exist and I feel sometimes I do have a lot
of boxes, but I want to make space for future generations
because I'm currently doing a master's part time.
Well, it's an offential all about arts education.
And for me, it's all about making space for those future
(05:00):
generations because if we don't show them now that they exist,
then you will lose a whole generation of POC artists.
So that's been my journey to where I am now.
And it's been tough. It has been tough.
Like when you are, you don't getseen or you get typecast as like
a terrorist, a shopkeeper. Even though one of my friends,
John Lockdown was like, he wouldn't cast me as a terrorist
(05:20):
and A and a play or a film. And I was like, why not?
He's like, you're too gay. And I was like, well, that would
be a great film. The gay terrorist.
I mean, I'm going to blow you up.
So it's also like I became a writer thanks to Sophie, a
writer that because I just wasn't seeing myself
represented. I wasn't seeing my community
represented. So I thought making those
stories, but then it comes that comes with like extra added
layers because it's how you're restarting, you're trying to
(05:43):
build. So yeah, it's been tricky and
tough, but I'm so grateful to people that have like supported
me and been there for me because, yeah, it definitely
takes a village to be an artist.And I'm so grateful to my family
and my agent and my friends thatlike, help me be here.
But that's why I do it is because I'm always thinking I
didn't grow up see people like me on the stages and screens.
Like even in my show, I say I'm not named after Naveed Sanjeev
(06:05):
Kohli because that's where everybody thought that's how the
age actor was. And I'm like, there's others out
there. I want to make those stories for
future generations. And also I want to get the
Scottish voice out there becausethere are there's not many
Scottish Asians on our stages and screens.
But even when you go London's, like where are those Scottish
voices? And also Scottish isn't just
white. No, like I'm 4th generation.
My family came here just before World War One.
(06:28):
My Gran was the first Asian to be born, one of the first ages
to be born in the 1940s and the South side of Glasgow where
we're from. So Scotland, when the theatre
pushes Scottish voices and you'll see white people, I'm
like, that's not representing Scotland for me.
It's actually a modern day Scotland.
So that's why I do what I do because I'm, I want to inspire
future people to be like, this is for you as well.
(06:49):
There's so much to unpack on that.
Loads of great stuff. I just want to say as well for
the listeners, thank you know, we are recording at the French,
so there's music playing in the background, there's ambience.
We are not copyright any of thismusic as well as if anyone this
is on we record and they played it.
So, you know, we're not sponsored by any of these
artists etcetera. And there won't be any dance
breaks happening. I want to pick up on this sort
(07:09):
of making space in the industry and stuff.
It's always a very hard time. As you say, there's not a lot of
always voices coming through, whether that be in theatre, film
or whatever. And I think especially in a cost
of living crisis with funding cuts across the board, it's
really hard. So do you have a sort of sense
of what the industry's like at the moment, especially working
in theatres? But, you know, it's interesting.
You're saying a lot of your work's coming down South and
stuff, but you sort of want to, you know, be more up here.
(07:31):
How have you sort of found the landscape recently?
It is tough, but I feel like it's slowly changing.
And I say slowly because it feels slow because we're only
now seeing S Asians on our screens, not in stereotype
roles. Yeah, but my issue with the
(07:52):
Scottish theatre is when you seepeople of colour, actors, say
someone's casting and they put us all into one, it's like we're
looking for a Baymax, we're looking for a POC actor.
And it's like, but my community is different to the black
community. The black community is different
to the East Asia community. And when you get us all
together, it's like, oh, and then it's like, I feel like they
(08:13):
kind of pick and choose who theywant to say, well, look, we've
got one person calling the wholecast.
We're fine and it shouldn't and.It's like, yeah.
And I feel like why can't you have like, I think of the Rez
Ahmed 3 stages that he talks about where he's like, the first
stage is you are stereotyped. You're just getting stereotyped
drilled. The second stage is you're still
being, you're so Asian, but you're not saying that.
(08:36):
And the third stage is you're just an actor.
And I all, I was at an event last year at NTS, but I said
when you're training, you're allactors, you're all performance
makers. But then the minute you leave
the industry, if you're white, you're still an actor.
But if you're black, you become a black actor.
If you're Asian, become a South Asian actor.
And it's like our skin colour becomes the first thing before
(08:58):
what the train does. Or like in my case, it's like,
oh, he's a clear size Asian and I'm like, I'm just an actor, I'm
just a person. Why do why do I need to be seen
for the boxes that I take, if you like, and not just for the
scouts. And my dream, like I even say
this in my show is the reason I do this is my dream is just to
make my mum proud and proud to see me on stage.
My mum's never seen me perform in Scotland.
(09:20):
The last thing she seen saw me do was 6 / 6 years ago.
It was my degree show and. She coming?
She's coming on Tuesday. Yeah, I talk about all of that
stuff and I'm really nervous. But yeah, I like, I would love
to just have a chance to go and perform at the Trav or the sets,
but I feel like there's not opportunities.
I think it comes out a couple ofthings.
(09:40):
It's come for me. It comes down to writers
understanding that a guy from Bangladesh can play Dave.
It comes down to casting. To think if you see a white
Western name that they don't have to be white, they can be.
So it's, and it also comes down to theatres taking a chance.
I only ever see South Asian artists during fringe.
(10:03):
It's the only time. But then the rest of the year
I'm like, where are they? Where are they getting seen?
So the landscapes tough. And I think those are the areas
I'm like, we need to see changesis like when it comes to the
right and take chances that thatdoesn't need to be a white
person. But also when it comes to
casting, don't just bring us outand be like, right, we saw 5%
more people of colour Give us a chance and open calls.
Like don't just put us on our list.
(10:25):
Actually follow through with it and be like, oh, I remember this
person and for 14 years, one of my friends yesterday was like,
she's my producer, Val. She was like, if you see someone
else, you know you're going to say hi and you're going to walk
on. And then she asked me, he's
like, how do you know to my people?
I was like, when you work your ass off and you need to network
(10:45):
and essentially you need to be seen, and I've been doing that
for years. Well, I feel like if you touch
on that, you know so many peopleI know.
So when I was coming to do this interview, everyone's like I
know Sanjay and you go in the meet yous on Instagram, it's
like, what the hell is mad? So you've done a good job of.
You know, it's been, it's been hard work, hasn't it?
Yeah. And it's hard work.
And then the other sad thing is that when people know you, but
(11:06):
then bring someone up from London, it's like, oh, but you
never saw me for that. I could have, I would love to
have a different flat. I think for me and I even say
for other S Asians that just give them a chance.
Now how do we know if we will begood enough if we don't have the
chance to fail? Yeah, yeah.
You don't have that chance to grow our skills.
I think that's a huge firm across the industry.
It's so risk averse that like often we don't, we just don't
(11:29):
have the unfortunately, the moment I don't have the money to
take a risk on a show and it could be bad, or take a risk on
a new, you know, new talent and they could fail.
But the only way you learn is byfailing.
And that's how great art gets made.
I think for me it's also about like opportunity as well, like
just giving someone that opportunity can be life
changing. They might learn something.
They might be like, actually I'mmaybe not an actor, maybe I want
(11:52):
to be the director. I can't enjoy what they do.
And also I do sometimes feel like the in Scotland can feel a
bit clicking. It does.
I think this problem with the arts is it feels very exclusive
and there's too much. I think often there's too many.
I've kind of been wrestling a lot with this, but I'm really
sort of, I don't think I like this whole talent scheme
initiative thing we have becausewe're just basically you do
(12:13):
these schemes, but there's no guaranteed employment after it.
And it put it's like, oh, these are the talent, these are the
talent. But then if you're not part of
that, then you. Yeah, and I also do feel like I
was at an event again, another networking event and someone was
like the arts was like a close up and I was and I was like the
person was too scared to ask thequestion.
I was like how it was like a panel of people like that ran
theatres and that. And I was like, how do you plan
(12:34):
on opening the shop? And I just felt like they didn't
really fully say the answers. They openly said like, oh, we
work with this person because we've got a good relationship.
They're my pals. And it's like, but how are we
meant to get a foot in the door?And I graduated six years ago
and I started like getting work.But COVID happened and that's
where I felt like I had to rebuild my career.
(12:55):
And that's how I went to the stand up comedy.
I went into the right in becauseI was like, the industry is so
different now. And also during COVID, I feel
like people forgot the ghost year of 2019.
I've said this to a few of my pals that graduate in 2019
because when COVID then happened, everything was being
pushed for 2020 graduate of 2021, which was fair because the
(13:16):
world was on lockdown. But you had a lot of people
graduate in 2019 who started booking work and then it all got
cancelled. But then it got recasted with
2020 graduate 21 to give them that opportunity.
So I'm also like, how do you? Yeah, I'm just thinking about
the ghost year of 20. 19 I had it on the podcast that week and
brilliant. Kate Coulson is doing a show
called Lioness this year at the Fringe as well, which people
(13:36):
should go and see, but she was talking about this idea.
Often we make work as well that's not for the average
person in society. Often as artists, not
deliberately, but I think our industry, often it's we're very
much like sort of showing off toour own industry as I don't
always make things open to people that maybe haven't got
access to that world. And then, you know, they like,
(13:57):
if you're from a work class background, you maybe don't go
and see a theatre show and then you never know about theatre.
So how are you ever going to work in it?
It's, I think that is quite a, yeah, a big issue as well.
I feel like it's really expensive, like how do you
expect? And I get we all need to pay
wages, pay buildings and that, but it's like it does steam at
times. Like it is hard to get those
audience in when the tickets areso expensive.
(14:18):
Like even for my friends coming through, like coming from like a
working class community, like a lot of them are only coming for
one day to see two or three shows and that's all they can.
Do. And then you factor in the
training, Yeah. And then getting food out, you
know? And let me tell you.
It's not. Cheap.
It's not cheap like friends. I've noticed people change their
menus. 4 friends. I just spent four couldn't a
(14:38):
flat light. I was like, what?
It's like that probably is the standard price these days, but
still. It's a flat light.
Yeah, I know. Could have made that nice.
Come on my show. You'll get a tea bag.
Yeah. I think let's just let's we'll
talk about your show in a SEC because another thing I want to
talk about is I know you're dyslexic and I'm dyslexic going
to talk about my dislikes and disspracts a lot on this
podcast. So tell us about that.
(14:59):
You're writers. I love when writers are dyslexic
because a lot of people go hike me be a writer if you're
dyslexic so. Yeah, so my journey finding out
that I, I got myself a new, They're delicious.
And I remember it was an artist who is a brilliant artist called
Abby Watson, who I was on my first year at drama school and I
(15:20):
did this essay and it was like 10 pages long.
And all through, like, school. I was told at school that I was
thinking stupid. A teacher said to me I'd never
get a degree. So I always made my aim that I
will get a degree. And I've got one now.
Yeah. And I remember I went through
college. My essays were like 18.
One of my longest essays was 18 pages long, about the ancient
(15:41):
Greeks past it. But I got through college, I got
my HND, went to RCS, and it was my first essay.
And Abby was like, Sanjay, can Ispeak to you after class?
And then I was like, oh, fuck, that's what I need to say in
school. Like I want to speak to you
after class. I'm in trouble.
What have I done? And then she just said to me,
Sanjay, I think you're part of the family.
And I was like, and in my head the first time I thought was,
(16:03):
you're white, I'm Asian. What family are we a part of?
I've only met you a couple of months ago.
What's going on? And then she's like, I think you
might be dyslexic and you're diverse.
I'm gonna get you tested. And I kid you not, I cried so
much the day I found out the results.
Not because I was dyslexic, morebecause my life felt like the
jigsaw pieces I'd found them missing.
It's liberating, isn't it? It really is.
(16:24):
You're you. What you live like is just
normal. Yeah, you don't realise.
So you you just assume everyone else must struggle as.
Well, yeah, I'm like, they're all there.
And over the years more and morepeople, you've got ADHD, you
really do not be tested for it. But I've had people that do test
people for it and they're like you do.
But it really changed my life. And I remember a moment was my
(16:45):
mum tried to translate to my Gran what dyslexia was.
But in Punjabi there's no language or dyslexia.
So my mum said to my Gran that he's Borailevich Kamzoria, which
translates into English as he's weak in his studies.
But she knew he's not weak in his studies.
It's just that's how you can translate it.
(17:05):
So it's also been interesting for me as a South Asian, how do
you translate what dyslexia is when there's no language around
it? But as a writer, it's an
interesting journey because I'm I'm someone who loves improv as
well. I love devising.
So like, even though my show is like a script, it's never is
(17:25):
quite fluid. It is about tough at times.
Like I don't speak in big words.Like I come through the South
side of Glasgow. I struggled in drama school
because everybody was like, oh, can you speak properly?
Oh, there's a flash. I never thought we'd get flies
on. There, you know.
This is there's flash sometime on there on this.
Episode I know I'm going to get I need a tan yeah but like it
(17:45):
was so interesting because I lost my train of thought we'll
talk about. Talking about dyslexia and.
Oh, dyslexia. Yeah.
Because in my head I just thought it was right.
And but as a writer, I found people that have found ways to
look after the dyslexia, how to look after myself as well.
And also, like I found a community of people that I could
(18:09):
like speak with and feel comfortable with because it's
tough as a writer, like at timesthinking if you've said
something right. But then again, like I don't
speak in the big words. I don't speak in big bourgie
words. Maybe why the Masters is a bit
hard because I'm really saying big words like criticality.
But for me, it's about being true to myself.
And I want to write stories again that are authentic and are
(18:33):
real. And I've always had a love for
autobiographical word verbatim theatre.
But yeah, it's, it's a journey. I'm still learning, but more and
more I'm seeing more Neodiverse.The art is coming out and it's
great finding ways to make yourself feel comfortable.
But yeah, it changed my life bigtime and changed it for the
(18:53):
better. And I know in stand how my brain
works as well. It's not everybody else's I.
Think that's really liberating when you realise like, oh,
that's why I'm tired all the time from this thing because it
takes me to process this. Yeah.
It's quite freeing because you're really arduous,
especially teenagers. You do feel stupid, especially I
teach us in the same life, you know, you just feel like you're
rubbish at stuff and you're. Yeah.
And I remember how it's a very dark story, but I remember when
(19:16):
I graduated and I had my degree from RCS and one of my friends,
like, you should go see that teacher said just if I can show
me when I get a degree. And I was like, yeah, but he's
dead. She was like, and then she
replied, go to his gravestone and waive your degree at his
gravestone. I was like, can't be doing that.
But it was in that moment when Igot the degree from RCS, that
moment did feel like a big two fingers up because I kept that
(19:40):
in my head. I kept on my heart going and I'm
I'm thinking stupid. I am, but actually I wasn't.
I just needed. She started on a belief not to
get to favour. Would you still have that deep
things? I think I still struggle that
you would have not been good enough.
Yeah, you do. And I think also when it comes
back to the arts, you do think, do like I do at times think when
I'm filling in forms, do I need to not talk about this angle
(20:01):
myself? Do I maybe talk about that?
Do I maybe not say this about myself?
So when you are queer, when you are new or diverse, when you are
South Asian, when you are working class, it's like how,
what? What do you talk about?
Because then. I remember someone said to me,
oh, when I graduated, oh, you'regoing to be a diversity dream in
the industry. And I was like, what do you
mean? You're like, Oh, well, you took
all these boxes and I was like, well.
You want to just you? Just want to be me because
you're good enough. Yeah, I want to like, and I've
(20:22):
wiped my ass off. I don't want to be there because
I'll look, they need an Asian. I'll look, they need a gay
person. I'm like, I just want to be me.
I had this weird thing recently and it's not a bad thing because
I think these schemes, I get they come from a good place, but
I was applying for a job and there was a you could take a box
if you had a disability like so if you're newer diverge like I
was, it would guarantee an interview if you met the minimum
requirement. And part of me didn't want to
tick the box. It's like I want to get an
(20:43):
interview on. Because on me.
Yeah, and I'm not. So I get the IT comes from a
good place and I'm I'm I'm mixedfeelings on it as a yeah, as
someone with neurodivergent, but.
It's nice the industry's also now talking about it a lot more
because when I think back to like 15 years ago when I was
starting out, no one really spoke about it.
Neurodivergent wasn't really a word.
It was like slowly emerging. So it's nice that there is that
(21:06):
community, but then there's thatthing of like, you don't want to
be brought in because you take abox for them.
And I think that's what I want to see change in the arts is
let's bring people on because they've got skill and like
they're kind, and not just because your theatre needs to
take a box. No.
Definitely. And I and I want to work at
home. I want to work in Scotland.
Like I don't like London's fine,not cheap but this is where I
(21:30):
trained and it's sad because a lot of POC artists leave
Scotland have to go and make a name.
Themselves. In general, yes, leave Scotland,
make a name for that. Then you're like, oh, you've got
this. And then it's like, well, you
don't want me like so. But I don't give up.
I like to keep going. And I always say like when I'm
teaching young kids, because I teach drama now and again, the
(21:51):
Conservative Party, I always saydon't just stick to one thing
because if you just stick to onething, then you are shutting all
other opportunities. Grow your basket, dip your
fingers into the things. And that's why I enjoy doing
somebody's like, how do you juggle so many things?
And I'm like, because if you just for me, if I stayed so I
did one thing, what would I be doing?
I wouldn't be getting the activejobs.
(22:12):
No one really rights for South Asians as much as Scotland.
So it's like I need to keep doing.
I need to keep doors open in other ways.
So yeah, that's what another reason, another reason why being
your diverse is great because I juggle many plays and then I'm
like, oh shit, how do I do these?
But yeah. But I want to go back to you
where you're from growing up in the South side of Glasgow.
And hey, that's influence you asan artist.
(22:32):
Like I love the South side I lived in.
To be honest, the South side of Glasgow I moved to three years
ago. It's probably a bit different
than the. South side?
What do you call the South side?What do you call you Shawlands?
I'm a Shawlands wanker, yeah. Design South side for me.
I moved there and I didn't know that this was such an up and
coming area. And then everyone was like,
coach, you live in Shawlands, you podcast wanker.
And I'm like, oh fuck yeah. But you know.
(22:53):
No, I, I, yeah, I don't like thereal size.
I live in Ibrox in the South side.
Yeah, yes, outside the river. And it was interesting growing
up there because, like, it was quite a diverse area.
My school was really diverse. And I think it was interesting
because I remember going to, my very first show was a panto and
(23:13):
that just, I was like, wow, whatis this?
And then the very first South Asian theatre show I saw was in
the tramway, I'm going to say 2006 or 7, and it was called
Hiranja. And it was like a Scottish South
Asian Romeo and Juliet at tramway.
And that really made me think this is what I want to do.
Even though I was like languages, just like hey, I'm
(23:35):
going to do a real degree, whichis a real degree, but that gave
me like that buzz to like go anddo the arts.
So yeah, it was great growing up.
And we've now got tour buses going down my street, which I
never thought I'd see the big red bus go down Ibrox and we
tourists taking photos on my house.
It's a very interesting day whenyou see that double Decker bus
(23:56):
go by your house. But yeah, I don't think I'd ever
leave Glasgow. Glasgow.
I think it's a really cool artistic hub.
I think there's some great things.
I think Edinburgh comes alive during the Fringe but for me,
year round I feel like Glasgow really does give great art and I
think that's why I'm a fan of Glasgow.
Yeah, I know for sure. Well, let's let's finally talk
(24:17):
about the show I keep alluding to.
Tell us about your your show at the Friends this this month and
and the journey it's sort of taken to get us here.
Yeah, so it's been a mad journey.
So it's called Love Me Like a Chai tea latte.
And I actually wrote it as a joke.
I wrote it as a joke on the train the day before it was
going on stage at the Vaults Festival in 2023.
Like I did all the promo, but I didn't write the show.
(24:39):
And then that 4 hour train from Edinburgh at the King's Cross, I
wrote it on there and I went on stage, had two nights at the
Vaults and it was like really busy audiences.
And then from that I was like ohthis feels good.
And then I did one night at the Lighthouse Bookshop in 2023,
again, just engaging an audience.
(25:00):
So I wrote it on the train and Idid two nights at the vaults and
really great audiences. And yeah, I wrote, I wrote
literally wrote it as a joke because I was like, I've dated
all these men and they're very weird.
And I've had some very like racist show is looking at dating
and racism. It's looking at just finding
love. And where do you find that love?
(25:22):
And it's got Bollywood, it's gotBritney Spears, it's got
Brookside, Doctor Who. Like it's a show basically.
That's my story, but fictionalised as well.
Yeah. Because as a writer, some great
advice I got was when you're writing autobiographical or be
an overbeat on device theatre from real stories, kind of
(25:44):
separating yourself. So that if you are doing like a
long run, like I'm doing off 25 shows, you're not like by the
end we're going, Oh my gosh, that's the guy.
So it's like keeping it fresh. So yeah, so I fictionalised it.
And so I did it in the vaults. Then after the vaults, I was
like, let's do a night at the Lighthouse bookstore.
So I did that and it went well. And then I thought, oh, OK, this
(26:07):
is cool. And then I'm a massive Doctor
Who fan. Like when I was younger, one of
my lecturers said to me, Sanji, you've got the brown pound, you
should use that. And I was like, what do you mean
by that? He's like, there's not many
people liking yessi, so go take life by two hands.
And I was like, yes, so I love Doctor Who.
So I went all the way to LA for a Doctor Who convention.
(26:29):
I thought, why not? Let's go to the other side of
the world. And it was brilliant.
And I got onto the Jimmy Kimmel show in the audience.
Yeah, I'd only been in the country 12 or 14 hours.
And then my friend's like, hey, sign up to this website, You can
be in the audience. And I remember it was insane.
So I was standing clapping because they just thing where
(26:50):
they're like, clap now, go on. And then they were like, right,
guys, so can we move you? Please?
Can we move you? And then they looked at me, but
I had my ruck sack on these and we went, he's got a bag.
Should I just leave him? Leave him.
We're fine. And then I was like, why?
What's happening anyway? OK guys, now Jamie's going to
(27:10):
stand there and I was like in front of me.
And you know that video of the guy with Jackie Birds and he's
like, Oh yeah, I felt like that.And my friend said to me, you
could tell that you were told tobe happy.
So then I was on the Jeremy Kimmel show and the guy who was
like the warm up act was a comedian who performs at the
Comedy Store in Sunset Blvd, which it was so far away from a
(27:34):
hotel, but my friends were like,you have to do it.
And I was like I but it's reallyfar and they're like we're
taking you. So I got a 5 minute slot, which
turned into a 22 minute slot when I did a bit of the show.
And what was really amazing about that was that was the same
place where like Ricky Goldberg,Robin Williams all got there
like comedy starts. So to be on that stage, I'm
(27:55):
like, hi, and I've done it. So that went well.
And then with the traction of the bookshop, Ellie, I thought,
well, let's do two more nights. And at that point I'd got into
my master's. So I was raising money for my
master's. So it was insane.
I did the first night in the bookshop, sold out, and I had a
reviewer in. And I remember this week so
(28:15):
clearly this was the Wednesday was the show, the Tuesday was
the show. And on the Thursday morning, I
was going down to London becauseI had an audio book gig with Big
Finish, which I was buzzing about.
And I was sitting on the train and at 8:30 AM an e-mail came
through. I got my first ever review.
And it was a five star review, which I cried at.
And the ticket woman came over and I was like, she went ticket
(28:37):
to me. I was like, yeah, so are you OK?
And I was like, yeah, I just gotmy first review and I got, I got
five stars. She's like, oh, amazing.
And then she came back. She went out and came back.
And while she was away, I got another e-mail saying that I'd
been nominated for the Birds of Paradise Emerging Talent Award
at the newer diversity Award. So I was crying even more.
Yeah. And then she came up and she was
(28:58):
like, what's wrong? And I was like, I got an award
nomination as well. That's right.
Well, if you go to El Forte, youjust sit there.
Now I'm not clinking and in my head I'm like L40, is that like
a shop in London like OL40 like hand creams.
And I was like oh, what area of London is that?
Because I wasn't thinking. She was like no, no, if you go
to carriage LCL 40. And she gave me a free upgrade
(29:20):
to 1st class. I cried.
I took all the free like mini biscuits, many cheeses.
I even took the mini oat milks 'cause I was like, this is
actually really cool if I want acup of tea in the hotel.
I'm saying it became a star and it was great.
And then did my audio book, cameback on Saturday night, Sunday,
went to the award ceremony, won the award, which was so shocking
(29:40):
because I'd only done one show at that point.
And I get a lot of imposter syndrome a lot.
I get a lot of doubt that I'm not good enough.
So I'm getting emotional stories, but I don't like like
like. Even being here, I'm like this
is. And it feels so surreal because
like when you hustle so hard andyou try and show me like you
exist you and in all these places, being like hi.
(30:03):
And that moment just made me feel like, OK, maybe there is
something here, but I still do get that impossible syndrome.
I still would even be here. I'm like.
Should I be here? Like even doing a friend show,
like say later on when you're performing, do you still get
that sense before you're going? Yeah, because I see so many
people that are so brilliant. I'm like, how am I here?
And I think when you come from aculture where the arts are,
pushes are clear because the Western culture doesn't really
(30:25):
push us and showcase us or it uses us as like jokes or like
gimmicks. It makes the things like, where
do you fit in? So that moment when an award
last year was really emotional and something that I've always
kept really close to my heart. And I'm really grateful to the
newer Diversity Review awards and the newer Diversity Review
because they were the first people that made me feel seen in
(30:47):
this industry. They were the first people that
made me feel like my work was worth something.
And then I came back to my second show and it was such a
nice vibe. And then?
Staying up just. And then after that, I then got
onto the Soho Rising, which was again a dream because I love
Soho. I was very weird to say hello.
(31:08):
And so when I got into the Soho Rising, it was a great moment.
And the people that supported megetting that opportunity, like
writing applications was really hard.
But as I dyslexic, let me tell you friends and all the emails,
I'm so glad. Like my producer now, Valerie
Andrews, who's a queen, and my friend Charlie Watson, my friend
Matt Cobbs, Angela, Maya Chadda,my partner Peter Anderson, all
(31:30):
these 5 legends that came on board.
And then my friend Neil from Sound, Jake from props, these
people came on board. They really helped me make this
feel less stressful and take things off me where I can focus
on the show. And that's what you want.
From a great about to enjoy the show.
Yeah, I find often and I've I'vedone live podcast of the Fringe
before and even doing this pain the scenes stuff.
I'm so bad at enjoying it because you stressed, but it's
(31:52):
on the train here today. I was like, I'm enjoying this
interview. I'm going to be behind the
scenes, the friends. This is an amazing opportunity
to like enjoy it. Don't make it stressful so.
And I'm a fun person. Exactly.
And we're here. And we got fun.
Yeah, come Monday, the start that's.
Got the sun? Coming I wish I wore shorts for
these trousers on violent, but I'm so grateful to people that
have been came on as my team whoI'm now able to enjoy my show
(32:16):
and enjoy the creativity off it because it's a lot.
You've got to do the flyering, you've got the emails, you've
got to like go meet people, you've got the networking.
Like it's a juggle. But Soho gave me that platform
again. I had two sold out nights at
Soho and people were shouting about the show and again a
moment from Soho that stayed with me.
It was my friend in the bar Caz was saying when they opened the
(32:40):
house on the nights my show, thebar all cheered and she was
like, in all her years working there, no one has ever cheered a
house opening call for someone'sshow.
And that was really touching forme because again, I do feel like
I again a lot, even during friends just now I get that
doubt of like, am I good enough?Like am I good enough to be
here? Am I good enough to be in the
(33:00):
arts? And that's another reason why I
have to go on the masters. The arts education masters is to
have a backup in the pocket. And I just want to have a
chance. And I'm hoping this fringe
something comes about. People see me and be like let's
chat because I just want to makework for people that we don't
see invoices we don't of. Course and it is a long journey,
so see, even if this month you don't, you know, have that
(33:20):
conversation and as much as you want it, like even your the
achievement you've had yourself,you know you'll learn from it
and you'll keep going. So it just slowly builds.
And having worked the Fringe in so many different capacities,
just being here has been a dream.
Yeah. And just have them work there.
And I'm so grateful to my agentsas well.
Who? Because Fringe does take you out
as an actor for work, but they're still pushing me and
(33:41):
they're still making me be seen.So shout out to Wintersons for
still pushing me and helping me get seen and supporting me doing
this. Because I feel like doing the
Fringe is also like a Scottish artist staple.
Like every Scottish artist has to do the Fringe at some point
in the life because it. Takes so much straight and it
doesn't feel very. Even though it's like very
stressful, it still feels like you need to take a laptop.
(34:03):
Friends. I'm only doing like a week, but
it's that thing of like when youare a Scottish actor, feels like
that one thing to do. So yeah, I'm just the journey
this show's been on to be here today.
I have at times struggled. I felt like I'm not good enough.
I felt like should have been doing this.
But I'm here and try not to be nervous.
Actually, it sort of brings me on to my next question for it's
about mental health. I'll talk about this in every
(34:24):
episode if I can, but how are you sort of protecting your
mental well-being this month especially?
Yeah, so mental health is a big thing for me.
There's mental health themes of my show and I talk about and
like mental health and like the impact of like racism and that
and my own journey. And the way I'm looking after
myself is taking myself out the show, chatting with friends,
(34:47):
sleeping, eating food, and also just doing fun things like not
that aren't friends related likegoing and reading a book with a
4 LB cup of tea. But what's happened to the UK?
Yeah, if you are looking for a good job, my show is sponsored
by Saint St Char in Stockbridge.They do an amazing chart in
Edinburgh. Highly recommend.
(35:08):
But for me that all my shows have an element of mental health
as well. So the other show that I'm
developing that I did at the Middle of Arts Festival last
year called Floating Along Silently is my Story and Suicide
and how I've. I'm here today.
And I think for me, it's always because I've been on that
journey of like bad mental health and that suicidal nature
(35:31):
of things in my life. I try to find the joyful moments
and the uplifting moments and I'm, I'm just trying to like
keep myself positive. I'm not, I've not had any
reviews, but like, I'm not touched with the nice.
But I'm also taking on what one of my friends said was it's just
one person's opinion, not let itto define my career because we
(35:55):
did it for 14 years and one person's view isn't going to
change all the other people thathave been shouting about it.
So it's about stepping out and doing fun things and enjoying
the moment. Really.
Yeah, it's hard. I'm gonna lie like, Oh my God,
because you want to go and see all your friends shows.
But I think I'll try and see as many as I can.
But I think this month it's about stepping back and having
(36:17):
Sanjay time, yeah. Well, do you want to look in the
camera and tell us where we can see your show as well?
Tell the listeners where they can.
See yes, please come along to the show.
You can see it at Assembly Roxy.I am in Roxy Boxy at 4:20 PM.
It's called Love me Like a try tea latte.
And if you're listening to this podcast in September or next
year or whenever it's 2026, sure, Sanjay will be performing
(36:37):
this somewhere else or doing something new.
So, you know, check out Sanjay'sworks are linked below the
podcast as always. And Sanjay, I also want to ask
you like, what were your big influences on the on the show,
but also on you as a writer? Like what other shows and
writers and stuff things you of?Course, that's such an
interesting question. I was speaking to my partner
about this and I think my shows very like the BBC show Worst
(37:00):
Week of my Life, which is not onTV anymore, but it was such a
hilarious show. People said my shows is it like
Fleabag and I'm like no. That was then talked about 2019.
That was everyone's buzzword. Yeah, and yes, it is about
dating, but and it is comical, but there's a darkness to it.
(37:21):
So I'd say because there's so many shows out there, but my
show's a mix of things. There's comedy, there's racism.
So it's like a mould of things. But I would also say, I try not
to say my shows like other things because everybody's
unique in their own ways and should shout out and proud about
(37:44):
everybody's work, everybody's uniqueness.
And that's one thing I'm trying to do during this Fringe is
shout out all the POC artists. There's my friend Lula who's a
brilliant artist who's made a website for artists of colours
to get reviewed reviews from audiences especially because
it's so hard to collate reviews when you leave.
And I, that's what I love about the Fringes.
Everybody's unique. And that's why I want to
celebrate is everybody's unique shows.
(38:05):
And I want to shout out all my POC pals that are doing all
their shows because it is tough when you I we do feel it like as
people of colour. And one of the largest festivals
has a very white fest. When I had one white artist
friends who put it on the story there.
And then another friend tagged me going see his show.
And my friend Mark was then like, yeah, I've noticed that
like where are the POC shows? So it's tough, but I'd say my
(38:30):
show is like about the worst week of my life is a bit like
Miranda maybe, but it is also stands alone and unique away
like all the other fab shows outthere.
Yeah. Thank you.
I've got a few sort of more specific questions, Fibre.
One of them is like, if you could, if you could do anything
right now to sort of change the industry.
If you had magic wand, you couldchange one thing.
(38:50):
What would you change about the industry?
Just one. Oh well, you know, in this
magical world you can't do it for.
I would open up the industry. I would open up the shop of the
industry where everybody in the industry gets at least one
credit and a theatre and gets a chance to perform with a company
(39:11):
and isn't a tick box. They are two sides so that
theatres and the companies open up to give chances and the other
people aren't just brought on because of their tick boxes.
Right. What's something you wish you
knew now that you didn't know atthe start of your journey to
become an artist? That the hustle is going to be
real, That this is not and this is not an empty plate.
(39:35):
Like you wouldn't go up to a buffet and expect someone to
fill your plate. It's not a la carte.
You need to go up and take that plate to the buffet and fill it
yourself. And you need to keep refilling
it because only then while someone see you and you'll have
the opportunity, but also don't do it alone.
And you don't have to be alone. There will always be people
there that will support you. And I on the end of that, find
your tribe, find your people that support you and the people
(39:56):
that shout out about you and do the same back for them.
Support them because. It's not one way thing.
We all need to support each other and as the arts are
getting tough, our money's getting squeezed.
We need to keep supporting and not use people as tick boxes for
your own games. But yeah, you're never alone.
Fill your own plate and find your people.
Similarly to that, like what's the sort of biggest lesson
(40:18):
you've learned in your career sofar as well?
What a hard question. It's a big question, I think.
I think one of the biggest lessons is, is don't let the
voice in your head get you down.Listen to the other voice.
That's how you can do it becauseshe can do it.
And I think of a piece of advicethat one of my lectures in
(40:40):
college is Saturday is no longerwith us doing a lamb said, I
remember I got a wee. It was only like a wee
background job, but was like constant work.
And it was over the summer holidays.
And I asked her should I do it? And she said to me, go for it.
And if we don't go for it and the opportunity might not come
again. And I think that was a great
list that I learned is like, just go for it.
Like in this industry, like sometimes some opportunities
(41:01):
might not come back again. So grab it with both hands and
enjoy it. And that's what I say with the
kids. It's some random noises in the.
French high assembly, yeah. So I think it's about enjoying
it and taking it by both hands and also not being a deck.
Do not be a pompous deck. We're all in the same boat.
(41:21):
We're all fighting to get jobs. Don't act as if you're better
than someone because you've got money, because you might speak
in better words, because you've had better training.
We are all in this industry together.
We should all be supporting eachother.
Don't be a pompous Dick. Be a kind person.
And like I say my show, be kind to others, but be kind to
yourself. So, yeah, I think that's
(41:43):
something I would say to our people just because you might
have so much more experience of money in that will be pompous,
be kind. And that's great, lovely answer.
And we brought this question back because we used to ask all
the time in the show. We recently brought it back.
But like, of course, the name ofthe podcast has just got a real
job. But what's the worst real job or
part time job that you've ever had to work to start paying?
(42:06):
So there's two that came to mind.
One was I worked when I finishedmy year as student president,
which in itself was tough because it was, it was a good
job with a bit of but I was one guy in charge of eight campuses,
32,500 students. So that was an interesting job.
But that contract ended and thenI started RCS in September.
(42:28):
So I went to a call centre and within the first week a
supervisor got sacked for throwing a stapler at me and
been racist and saying, oh, you're one of those ages.
We have like 100,000 gods kind of make up your mind and call me
an F&P in front of everybody. And I was like, I don't want to
come back to this job. And we would all promise you'd
(42:49):
get a £500 bonus when we left. And that was what year?
About 25. That was 10 years ago.
Still waiting for my £500. Yeah.
And then the second one that's friends related.
I won't name the company, but eight years ago I worked for a
company where I was doing 12 to 13 hour days and I got paid
£2.70 an hour. What the hell?
(43:09):
Yeah, didn't get a coffee these days.
I know can't even go to the pie maker and get a pie, but yeah,
£2.70 an hour and it was horrible because they wouldn't
give you a fridge so you had to constantly go buy lunch.
But then your lunch was 45 minutes and the queues are
insane. So by the time you got to the
front of the queue and got your food they were like where were
you? But, and the positive of that
job was I made some lovely friends and the person who ran
(43:32):
that company because I got into ITV News and I said to him I
would do the interview if you don't show my face or for me
from buying, they're like, yeah,yeah, sure.
And then I remember my friend running down and go to Sanjay,
the boss, stay away from me. He's not happy.
I was like, why? She's like, you were on the
news. I was like, yeah, but they
changed my voice and found me from my.
She was like, yes, but when you get angry, you get Uber gay and
you talk with your hand and yourhead.
(43:53):
So they saw me in my profile andI was fuming.
And the guy said to me, you willnever work the Fringe again.
And I was like, oh, OK, challenge accepted.
And the following year I went and worked for the actual fringe
and doing box office in the mail.
So I'd say those are my two worst jobs.
Oh, wait, can I add a third one?Actually, Oh, wait, I've just
remembered it was a Halloween gig.
(44:13):
The guy made out that Oh yeah, it's going to be brilliant kids,
everything. And they gave me a script which
was meant to be for like 5 to like 8 year old, but it was more
like 15 to 18 year old. And they it was in a place
called Winchboro. I've heard.
Of that, I've never heard of it.None of my pals had.
And how was? I said I've heard of that as if
like. Yeah, sorry.
(44:34):
Oh my God, I've been there. But it was so weird because
like, when I went, they didn't have a taxi service.
No taxis from Linlithgow would take me there.
So finally one time I was like, right, I'll just take you, no
worries. But then to get back, they had
this one wee woman who used her own car as a taxi.
And nobody, like, it's like I went through a portal, ended up
(44:56):
in Winsboro and then left and nobody would have heard of it
again. But they made me like, use white
face paint, black up my eyes andhave like a white cloak.
And my job, in the end, nobody stayed for the play that I was
hired for. So they're like, well, can you
just walk around and be like, Boo to people?
So I had to go out to people drinking pipes and pub, go Boo.
I'm a ghost. Do you want a hot dog?
(45:17):
So those are my three. Yeah, the three jobs.
Got paid more than 275 for that I.
Asked them for more money because I was like, so I've done
XYZ and I got them to pay me £300 more because I was like,
this is not what I was brought on to.
So yeah. So those are my good jobs, yes.
Lasandra, I've got one more question for you.
Thank you so much. No, thank you.
(45:38):
It's. So nice to be in this space I've
never recorded a podcast with. Sunglasses.
With the sun beaming down so. We show them our eyes.
Yeah, take off their eyes. The last question.
The last one. Yes, we do.
That take them off and you can see is like where that but
they're closing a question on the podcast.
What was your sort of closing advice for anyone that wants to
work in the creative industries,but particularly maybe take a
show to the Fringe or be an actor and writer let you?
(46:00):
I would say one like my lectures, like go for it because
the opportunity might not come again.
Don't be scared. Like it's not easy.
Like I ain't going to be like, Oh my God, come in.
It's great. Like if you are coming from like
a working class background, likebe ready to hustle because I
have found that like, yeah, the pompousness at times.
(46:21):
Have a thick skin. But also find your people.
Find those people that will be there for you.
And I'm so grateful to people that I found over my career that
have been there for me. But also, I would say don't just
stick to one thing. Like, yes, you want to be an
actor, brilliant. But currently like since like
the fleabags, the baby reindeers, solo work is so real.
(46:42):
Make your own work. Like you all have your own
stories. What excites you for people that
want to come to the Fringe, be prepared to be tired.
Be prepared to be walking a lot,flying in, but be prepared to
have fun as well. It's one month where there's
over 4000 shows, but also go to the book festival, go to the
(47:05):
International Festival, Film Festival, go support other arts
and have fun. But be ready to be tired and
take days off. Some people do the Fringe and
just do a straight run, recommend days off.
I've got two Mondays off, which even though I'm doing 12 days
straight and then a day off, buttake those days off because it
(47:25):
does get tired. And you're not just doing your
show, you're doing the market and you're doing social media.
You're doing flying in. Remember to eat at the front
desk. And Oh my God, meal prep.
Meal prep is a big thing. It's a game changer for general.
Like I started doing it for my week and it saves so much time.
And also like things are so expensive.
Yeah, I know. Like any level of Tesco meal
deals or a Boots meal deals. So I say meal prep.
(47:47):
So it's a once in a lifetime thing.
I think it will take me a while if I will come back yet because
I think there is all the implications of finances and all
that, but and obviously never. Yeah, and what's next after
you've got any plans for after the friend you're working people
would link to your Instagram andall that below and all?
That, yeah, we have no idea yet.We're going to see where this
(48:07):
goes. I would love to take on a Wii
tour and I've got. Friends Glasgow South side show.
Yeah, I would love to do it in Glasgow because I've got so
many. Friends, the real South side,
the. Real South Side, not Shawlands,
Ibrox. So yeah, we'd love to do a we
too. I'd love to take it to areas
that have strong queer communities, POC communities.
So if anybody's listening is interested in bringing me to
(48:29):
your venue, give me a call because again, we're not funded
as well. We've been doing a GoFundMe so
if you are. Still, is that still active?
We have kept it live till Mondaynow, so we have.
We closed by the time this episode, Yeah, but.
But if you want to do the same time.
Some money for me, the podcast, some money we have a patron as.
Well, so he's the name because Ifeel like I'm gonna, I'm gonna
(48:50):
back them up for a second. I feel like also like it's so
great being able to come and speak to you during the Fringe
because there's so many shows that how do you get the word
out? So I'm really grateful that
you've taken the time to come and speak to me because it's so
great hearing your podcast. I think the people you bring on
and just your real brutal honesty and your care that you
put for people like me to come and speak to you, It's like we
(49:11):
need more people like us, more space like that.
So, yeah, put some money in his Patreon because people like us
that are, is that are emerging that are, well, I say emerging.
I've been doing it so long. But people that are trying to
get the words out there, it's brilliant.
People like Jamie that give us that space to be heard.
So I am really grateful that youtook the time out also to meet
with me today. So, yeah, thank you.
(49:32):
Pleasure. Thank you.
So we put the sunglasses back on.
Enjoy the sun. Thank you.
Thank. You so much.
Thank you so much. Thank.
You assembly as well and a big thank you to Elliot Mitchell,
our editor, who's been doing thebehind the scenes for this.
See you at the. Show.
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