Smarter Planting for Bigger Harvests: Interplanting Strategies - Ep. 247 - Just Grow Something | Evidence-Based Home Gardening

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We talked last week about companion planting and some of
the myths around what it means and what specific plants maybe
aren't good to plant together. I promised this week that we
would go into the actual techniques of how to do this in
our own gardens in terms of inter planting.
One of the main methods that I use in my own garden and in

(00:21):
helping my clients in their gardens and what I teach in my
plan like a pro course is high, low, Fast, Slow.
This little mantra is a really great way to combine the plants
in your garden to make the most use of all of your space without
impeding on the growth of any ofthe plants involved.
Now, when done successfully, notonly are you taking advantage of

(00:44):
mixing the species up to help with pest pressure, you are also
providing better diversity in the garden in terms of your soil
and getting more out of the samegarden space.
When done incorrectly though, wecan choke out our plants, cause
some disease issues, invite pests in because we have weak
plants, and ultimately this is going to reduce our yield.

(01:05):
So today on Just Grow Something,I'm taking you through how to
judiciously combine plant families in your garden beds so
that you can make the most of the space that you have while
also benefiting your plants and the soil they're in.
I will also give you specific examples of how this is working
out in my own gardens right now,plus a few experiments that I'm

(01:27):
doing so maybe you can be inspired to do the same in your
own garden. Let's dig in.
Hey, I'm Karen and what started as a small backyard garden 20
years ago turned into a lifelongpassion for growing food.
Now as a market farmer and horticulturist, I want to help
you do the same. On this podcast, I am your
friend in the garden teaching evidence based techniques to

(01:47):
help you grow your favorites andbuild confidence in your own
garden space. So grab your card and journal
and a cup of coffee and get ready to just grow something.
So a few notes about the merch shop over at
justgrowsomething.com before we move on.
I am getting ready to launch thenew spring and summer items in

(02:09):
the next week or so. I've got a couple of new designs
and at the same time I'm going to be retiring a few of the
existing designs. There are some designs that have
been in there for a while and there will be a little, a little
bit of overlap for a couple of weeks.
But then when I retire those they're they're going to be gone
for the foreseeable future. So I invite you to check it out

(02:31):
now to decide which of the current designs you might like
and then check back again when the new designs drop.
Like I said, there will be some overlap for a couple of weeks to
let everybody get in there and kind of, you know, make
purchases all at once instead of, you know, trying to buy and
then going back in. So anyway, there are some
current designs that will transition from like being

(02:54):
hoodies and long sleeved into T-shirts and tanks and some
other fun things in addition to adding some new designs.
So I wanted to make sure that everybody had an opportunity to
go in there before your favorites go away or ones that
maybe you've been waiting on. That's going to happen here in
the next couple of weeks. So just growsomething.com and
then just click the shop button or you can type in slash shop.

(03:15):
And huge shout out to those of you who have already made
purchases in the merch shop. I don't make a ton of money off
of it, but it's a really great way to support the show.
And it's kind of a fun way for me to have a little bit of a
creative outlet in like gardening themed things.
So I'm hoping that you like the new designs.
You'll have to reach out and letme know.
All right, So what exactly is interplanting and why does it

(03:40):
matter in our garden? Let's start with the basics.
Interplanting or intercropping, we're going to use those terms
interchangeably is the practice of growing two or more crops in
the same space at the same time.And we're doing that in a way
that they don't compete with each other, but they complement

(04:01):
each other instead. So this is a little bit
different from what we we talk about in terms of succession
planting, even though we can useall of these techniques all at
the same time. Succession planting is more
about the timing of the plants. So planting 1 crop right after
another in the same space. Inter planting is more like

(04:24):
roommates that actually get along right.
Sometimes they're together for just a short amount of time and
sometimes they are together for the entire season.
Now when they're only together for a short period of time, in
traditional like farming terminology, we talk about it
that being relay planting. So inter planting would be
making sure that all the plants are growing together for the

(04:47):
entire season. Relay planting would be planting
1 crop by itself and then as that starts to mature then
planting another crop in it and then that early crop comes out
while the later crop goes to maturity.
That is considered relay planting.
We are going to use those terms.I'm just all of all of that is

(05:07):
falling under interplanting as far as I'm concerned.
So if I say interplanting, understand that it could also
mean relay planting in some way,shape or form.
You may also hear me say intercropping, intercropping and
interplanting are the exact sametechnique.
It's just that intercropping is again the sort of big AG version

(05:28):
of what we're doing here. Interplanting is just it being
scaled down for use in gardenersterms.
I will use those terms interchangeably as well.
So intercropping, interplanting,exact same thing.
Interplanting and relay planting.
I am just letting relay plantingfall under the umbrella of
interplanting just for, you know, convenience sake in terms

(05:49):
of this conversation. OK, So if you hear those terms
elsewhere, understand that theseare all things that we are
talking about interchangeably. When it is done well, inter
planting is going to increase your harvest using the exact
same amount of space that you already have.
This is a beautiful way to really increase the harvest from

(06:13):
your garden without having to add more bed space.
Whether that means building new raised beds or breaking up the
ground. This isn't necessarily something
that you will do in smaller containers.
You can in terms of sort of planting companions together,
but that is when you really haveto pay attention to the plant

(06:34):
spacing. We'll talk about that in a
little bit about how to manage that, but just understand that
the smaller the container, the less likely it is that you are
going to reap the benefits of this.
You might just want to add new containers at that instance.
One of the other benefits of interplanting done well is that
it helps prevent weeds by eithercrowding them out completely or

(06:58):
by just shading the soil so thatnothing can grow there.
It also reduces that pest pressure through the crop
diversity. We talked about that in the
companion planting episode last week.
Intermixing all of the species together or different species of
plants together is going to break up that mono crop or that
monoculture and it makes it lesslikely that pests are going to

(07:21):
really hone in on that one particular thing that they're
looking for because they can't find it as easily if they have
more than, you know, one speciesthat they might land on, right?
Interplanting is also going to improve our soil health.
So if we have multiple species that is supporting multiple

(07:41):
types of beneficial microbes in the soil, the different root
diversity of all of these different types of crop are also
going to help to improve the soil texture.
So you have plants with very, very fine roots going through
the soil, but then you also haveones with larger tap roots that
are breaking up compacted soil. You've got the fine roots that

(08:01):
are sort of filling in those airgaps, a little bit larger roots
that are breaking it up. So it really does help with the
soil texture to have a variety of root types in the same space.
Now, I keep saying when done correctly, so we'll talk about
the high, low, fast, low, fast, slow strategy here in a minute.

(08:21):
But one of the things that we need to take into consideration
when we're doing this is our individual plant spacing.
This is where it tends to get very, very confusing for people.
And it was very confusing for me.
And I have worked on this technique for years and years
and years and finally sort of figured out the recipe for a
super productive garden in the same space by combining these

(08:44):
these plants. When we think about it in terms
of plant spacing, we're still going to follow the proper
spacing techniques and the proper spacing recommendations
from the seed packet, but we aregoing to follow it based on that
particular plant and we might befilling in that plant spacing

(09:05):
with something completely different.
This is why it is very importantto do this in in different plant
families, using different plant families, because in a lot of
instances these these plants at the same stage of growth are
going to be using different nutrients.
They might have a different demand level for that particular

(09:29):
nutrient. And so they're not going to be
necessarily sharing the same resources.
And if they are sharing the sameresources, they're doing it for
a limited amount of time. So, for example, if you have a
crop that says it's recommended that it is planted 6 inches
apart in the row and in rows that are 18 inches apart, You

(09:53):
can do this in a number of ways.You can follow that
recommendation by planting them 6 inches apart and then doing
another row 18 inches from that and planting those plants 6
inches apart in that row and then pairing a crop with those
plants that will fit in between the rows.

(10:15):
Or you can plant these more in agrid.
So the square foot gardening method is infamous for this.
This is kind of the basis behindsquare foot gardening where
you're breaking your garden up into 12 inch squares and how
many of a particular plant can fit into that 12 inch square.
What I'm going to recommend is something that's very similar to

(10:35):
that. I don't necessarily utilize
square foot gardening, but what I do do is just kind of take the
average of the amount of space that is recommended for that
plant and then I just divide it into two.
So how does this work if that same plant, you're saying it
needs to be 6 inches apart in the row and those rows need to

(10:57):
be 18 inches apart, that 18 inches plus the six inches.
Right now we have 24 inches. Essentially that plant, if you
divide that by two, needs 12 inches on all sides of itself in
order to be able to do the growth that it needs up top or

(11:20):
underneath or to spread its roots out and utilize the
nutrients appropriately. So if you don't want to do rows,
you don't have to. If you, especially if you're
doing these in raised planters, you can say I'm going to take
that crap crop and I'm going to take that crap.
I'm going to take that crop and I am going to space them out 12

(11:42):
inches apart. Now what you can do is either
you can again fill in spaces in between with something different
that is going to utilize opposite nutrients or have a
different growth pattern or you can sort of do this like in a
checkerboard pattern, for instance.
So if you want to grow say one that I referenced a lot, which

(12:05):
is lettuces in with your brassicas, right?
You know your brassicas are going to take up a lot more
space eventually then your lettuce will.
But your lettuce grows a lot more quickly than the brassicas.
So these are perfect to pair together, right?
So if that brassica, say, needs 18 inches all the way around it

(12:27):
in order to get to its full sizeand in order to utilize the
nutrients properly in the soil, then you can go ahead and space
them. OK, they're 18 inches apart.
But instead of having it be justthe brassicas, you might say
I've got 1 brassica here. Let's use broccoli as an
example. I've got one broccoli here and

(12:48):
then 18 inches over. I am going to place two lettuce
plants because maybe the lettuceonly needs 6 inches apart,
right? So that can take up this space
on the side of where the broccoli is.
So on either side of the broccoli you might have lettuces

(13:09):
and then the next section over will be another broccoli and
then the next would be lettuces.So what happens is as those
broccoli, which grow more slowlythan the lettuce are coming to
maturity, they slowly take up that space.
In the meantime, the lettuces are filling out the area, which

(13:30):
is helping to prevent those weeds from coming in and taking
over. It's shading the the soil.
You're getting more of a harvestout of it because that space is
not blank, just waiting for the broccoli to fill it.
By the time the broccoli needs that space, you will have
harvested that lettuce. It's already out of the way, and
now the broccoli can take up therest of the room that it needs

(13:52):
to to to grow. OK.
That is just one example of how you could do this.
So just keep in mind with the plant spacing, yes, you do want
to follow the recommended guidelines in terms of what they
need in space to grow, but it isokay to fill in that space

(14:12):
either temporarily or permanently with a different
plant. And that takes more advantage of
the amount of soil that you haveto grow in.
And it also helps to prevent theweeds and it also helps to
prevent the pests. So just combine whatever the
recommendation is in terms of its spacing and either decide if

(14:33):
you're going to plant in betweenrows or if you're going to add
up the space they need, divide by two, and then you know how
much space each one of those plants needs around them and do
it that way. This is why especially like in
plan, like a pro, I will tell people, take a spreadsheet, not
a spreadsheet. Well, you can do it on a
spreadsheet, but take a piece ofgraph paper and lay out your

(14:56):
garden and do it in terms of each square is, you know, 1
foot, or if you have, you know, an extraordinarily large garden,
it could be two feet or whatever.
And this will give you the opportunity to be able to write
in what plants will fit in what space.
If you are a visual person, thisreally, really does help lay
things out in terms of, oh, now you can see what can fit where.

(15:21):
If you're somebody who works sort of in formulas like I do,
it may not be necessary to writethese things out.
You can just write a list and say, I'm going to pair broccoli
and lettuce together. And when you do the math and you
add up the space of each of those needs, you might also find
that you have space to add something else, which is what I
do. I put green onions in there as
well. So there's all kinds of

(15:43):
different ways that you can figure this out.
What we need to concern ourselves with is the technique
and how we can get to the point where we know what's going to go
or what's going to stay in the garden for an extended period of
time. What is going to come out to
make room for that thing? Or can they be side by side the

(16:04):
entire time? Because 1 is really tall and the
other is really low. And that is where the high, low,
fast, slow strategy comes in. So this is actually just sort of
my favorite way to keep in mind how you can pair these plants
families up in your garden. If you have worked through the
garden planning workbook that I sell in my shop, you will

(16:27):
recognize this technique. If you have taken the plan like
a pro course, you will recognizethis technique.
So high, low, fast, low. So what we're going to do is we
are going to take our tall plants, our tall growing plants.
These are our high plants and weare going to pair them with low
growing ones. Those are the shorter plants.
OK, So planting a tall crop witha shorter one underneath lets us

(16:51):
take advantage of the vertical spacing and also light layering.
Because one of the reasons thereare recommendations for how far
apart or how closely together plants can be planted is that we
also have to take into consideration how much light
they need. So if you have plants that like

(17:11):
to hold hands, like Peppers, Peppers like to be closed, you
know, planted closely enough together to where they, you
know, their leaves are touching each other, but that's close
enough. If you plant them two more
closely together, then you mightbe not giving them enough light.
But if they're close enough to where they can hold hands, the
leaves from one plant can help shade the fruit of the other.

(17:35):
And that way we're preventing sunscol.
So that's just, that's just one example of, you know, why plant
spacing can be important. So if we're using a tall crop
and we are planting a lower growing one underneath, it can
either be a, you know, just a short plant or it can be one
that is binding. So some examples of this are

(17:56):
like tomatoes and basil. So basil grows well in part
shade. So if you're growing
indeterminate tomatoes that are going to continue getting taller
all season long and they're trellising out, they are going
to shade that bed pretty heavily.
So you need to grow something inthere that can stand having that

(18:17):
shade. So basil is a perfect example of
this. These are two things that will
grow well together for the entire season.
A different twist to this would be tomatoes and lettuces.
So lettuce is a short growing plant, low growing plant.
It is not going to stay in the garden the entire season.
So as the tomatoes or as you as you're growing your lettuces,

(18:41):
they can take up the entire space where your tomatoes will
go later in the season. Then, as the lettuces are
maturing, you can plant those tomatoes in and amongst the
lettuces. They're not going to bother the
lettuce at all. As the tomatoes get taller, you
can harvest the lettuces that are closest to the tomato plants
so they get the chance to be able to grow.

(19:03):
What will happen, Especially if you are in an area where the
late spring starts to get very warm very quickly, and sometimes
your lettuce will either get bitter or will start to bolt
because it gets too hot, The lettuces are going to start to
get shaded by the tomatoes, which means that you might get a
little bit more of an extended harvest out of your lettuces

(19:24):
because they're getting that shade and they're not getting
cooked in the sun, so they're not getting bitter and they're
not bolting as quickly. Then once you pull the lettuces
out, you can, if you want to, plant something else underneath
there, like the basil that will still grow well in that part
shade. Or you can just leave it empty,
make sure that you've mulched itreally well, and then plant

(19:45):
lettuces again later in the latesummer, again taking advantage
of the height of the tomatoes tohelp to shade them while they
continue to grow through the late summer into the fall.
So those are just two examples of, you know, a high and a low
that aren't necessarily vining crops.
We're not looking at covering the entire ground.

(20:05):
We're looking at something that can tolerate the shade that is
being given by that taller plantwithout impeding the growth of
either plant. If you want to look at vining
crops, then the three sisters method is a classic version of
that, right? So we have corn.
We're planting the corn 1st and we're allowing it to start
growing straight up. That is our high or our tall

(20:28):
plant, right? The next thing we're going to do
is we can plant beans. Now the beans aren't
necessarily, you know, I mean, yes, they're a high plant.
They're a tall plant. They're going to use the corn as
a stock to grow up. So we're talking about pole
beans specifically here. So they're good companions like
we talked about last week because the corn is a heavy

(20:49):
nitrogen feeder and those beans are going to fix the nitrogen
and then the corn is providing the stability for the bean to be
able to to climb up. But the inter planting here that
is going to benefit the soil in terms of keeping the weeds out
is the squash. So if you plant a vining squash
at the base of those corn plantsand the bean plants, now that

(21:11):
corn or that squash is going to crawl across the ground and it's
going to act as a living mulch, so it's going to keep the weeds
at Bay. That would interrupt the growth
cycle of the corn and the beans.So when all three of these are
working very, very well togetherand they are all benefiting each
other. Something else that you could do
would be high, Low would be cucumbers on a trellis with

(21:36):
lettuce or some other leafy green underneath.
So you've got a trellis and you're planting the cucumbers at
the base. Well, cucumbers generally need
to be planted later in the season a little bit when the
soil has warmed up. So lettuces are a great thing to
plant in that space in the meantime.
So the lettuces like the cool ortemperatures, they're going to
shade out that soil and they're going to crowd out any weeds

(21:59):
that might want to start to develop there.
As you harvest the first round of lettuces, then you can plant
the cucumbers against the trellis where the lettuces came
out, but the remaining lettuces can stay in that soil to
continue to choke out the weeds while the cucumber starts to
climb. The cucumbers take a while to
climb and to leaf out, so the lettuce is going to mature in

(22:23):
the meantime, and it's not goingto be choked out by the
cucumbers. And by the time the cucumbers
start to mature and start viningeverywhere where they're going
to cover the soil themselves, the lettuce is already out.
OK, what is important here is the light management, but also
our nutrient management. So your tall crops are
eventually going to create shade, so you have to plan what

(22:45):
goes beneath them accordingly. It either needs to be a crop
that prefers some protection from the sun or one that is
going to be finished by the timethat shade becomes an issue.
The other thing when we're talking about nutrient issues is
we want to make sure that they are not really, really heavy

(23:06):
feeders at the same time. So if we're planting lettuces,
lettuces initially are going to want a good amount of nitrogen
for their leaf development. If we're planting tomatoes into
the lettuces, yes, the tomatoes are also going to want nitrogen
at the beginning for that leafy growth and to get those stems

(23:27):
nice and strong. But by the time we're putting
the soil is warm enough to put those tomatoes in to where the
lettuces are, the demand that the lettuce has on the nitrogen
capacity of the soil has lessened by that point.
So there is more nitrogen available for those tomatoes.
We just want to be cognizant that if we do have heavy feeders
together, it's not necessarily adone deal that you can't do it.

(23:51):
You just have to make sure that you have the soil fertility to
be able to handle that. So if you need to feed your soil
a bit more when you have these plants growing together, then
that's just what you do. Almost any of these combinations
can be done very well so long asyou know that you have the
nutrients available. OK, so that's high, low.

(24:12):
What about fast, slow? Well, we sort of talked about
that a little bit with the lettuces and the tomatoes, but
this is just another way to pair, you know, your crops
together. We have a fast maturing one with
a slower 1 so that the fast maturing crop gets to thrive
while the slower one is taking its time getting to size.
And by the time the slower 1 takes over the entire space, the

(24:33):
fast maturing one has gotten outof the space.
Radishes and carrots are a classic example of this.
Radishes germinate and mature much more quickly than radishes
do or than carrots do. Sorry.
So it's, and we all know carrotsor Divas, they take forever to
germinate. They need specific temperatures
and specific soil moisture and all those types of things.

(24:55):
And you know, it can be sometimes as long as three weeks
for them to just even start to pop up out of the soil and they
they grow much more slowly. So if you mix radishes, you
know, you do a row of carrots oneither side, you do a row of
radishes down the middle, you can do your normal spacing with
the carrots in between, right? So if let's say off the top of

(25:16):
my head, it might be like 18 inches between rows of carrots.
If you do 2 rows with the 18 inches like you're supposed to
in between them, there is nothing wrong with taking a row
of radishes right down the center between those two rows of
carrots. Those radishes are going to pop
up within a matter of a couple of days.
This is going to remind you of exactly where your rows of

(25:38):
carrots are #1 while they are taking forever to pop their
little heads up out of the ground.
But radishes mature so quickly, in as early as three weeks,
right? Three to four weeks, those
radishes are going to be up and out.
And the carrots will finally be up in a solid stand where you
can see them and you know what to do with them.
And the carrots will start to take over.

(25:59):
The the benefit of the radishes also is that it is helping to
keep that soil loosely cultivated, which is what
carrots need to reach their fullpotential.
So it, it, the radishes are kindof keeping that soil from
becoming sort of not really impacted, but kind of crusty on
the top. Because when you're pulling the
radishes out, you are disturbingthat soil that's in between the

(26:20):
carrots. And that is preventing them, you
know, from that top from kind ofgetting dry and crusty, which is
also going to help with the carrot growth.
We talked about lettuce and tomatoes, right?
Lettuce loves the cooler early season.
It matures before the tomatoes start to fall out.
Things like spinach with broccoli.
If you like the baby leaf spinach, you can grow the leaf

(26:41):
spinach in between rows of your broccoli or in and around the
base of the broccoli. The broccoli, you know, takes a
while for it to kind of get situated and start to leaf out.
The spinach grows very quickly in the spring.
So if you want to harvest a bunch of baby spinach, you can
do that multiple times off of a little spinach crop in and
amongst your broccoli while you're waiting for the broccoli

(27:02):
to take over. You don't even necessarily need
to remove that spinach. When the broccoli does take
over, if it gets shaded enough to where it's not going to grow
anymore, then it's at that pointit's just acting like a ground
cover and as it dies back, it's going to feed the soil.
So you don't necessarily have topull that crop out, you can just

(27:23):
let it be. But in the meantime, you can be
harvesting that spinach while you're waiting on the broccoli
to grow. So this technique keeps the
weeds at Bay because your fast growing crop is going to cover
that bare soil early on, and it's also reducing wasted space
while you wait for your slow growers to mature.
I've talked a couple of times this season about how I'm

(27:45):
focusing on beautifying my gardens rather than just
strictly relying on production value this year.
Now production value makes sensefor me because I'm a market
farmer and my companion plantingand my intercropping all serve
some sort of a purpose in that regard.
But I'm looking a little bit more at adding plants for
aesthetics this season. That is where Heirloom Roses

(28:06):
comes in. Not only do they have over 700
varieties of fabulous own root roses to choose from, they also
have a myriad of other perennials to add pops of color
all over my garden. I am using their very robust
search function to narrow down the selection of plants based on
what is perennial in my zone 6 garden and what will do well in

(28:28):
containers. The kitchen garden is my main
focus this year, and that entiregarden is raised planters
because the soil underneath is really just cheap dirt that's
been dumped on top of gravel andI'm not sure anything will
actually grow there. So I want to use containers
between my beds to Add all this beauty that I'm looking for.
Heirloomroses.com has made it very easy to just find not just

(28:51):
container friendly perennials for my zone, but also those in
specific color ranges and various bloom times so I can be
sure that I have color all season long.
I have just clicked the little heart right next to each one
that I like and it adds it to mywish list and then I can see all
of my favorites in one spot so Ican narrow down my choices.

(29:12):
Which has been kind of difficultbecause they are all so
beautiful and each of the perennials comes in a one gallon
pot. But they'll hold those plants
until the optimum time for me toplant, which is after May 14th.
So they are keeping me from planting too early and possibly
damaging my new plants. They do truly care about our
success with their plants. To save 20% on your purchase,

(29:36):
head to heirloomroses.com and use code Just GROW at checkout
to find not just healthy diseasefree roses, but other perennials
to beautify your garden this year heirloomroses.com with code
Just Grow. The link is in the show notes.
So what about pest and weed management with interplanting?

(29:59):
We talked about this last week with the companion planting.
A diverse planting is a strong planting.
When you inter plant, you disrupt pest behavior by
breaking up the monoculture. Okay, so yes, this is a form of
companion planting. We might want to be using plants
strategically because of maybe how the pests will react to

(30:21):
them. So, for example, onions or
garlic in with your carrots because the strong scent of the
aliens can help to confuse you know, the carrots, the carrot
rust flies. This might be in terms of
chemical exudates, right? So marigolds in with tomatoes
because they're not just adding color, but they're also
repelling the nematodes. But we can also do this in terms

(30:42):
of just different species being together.
OK. We know that basil pairs well
with tomatoes just, you know, interms of flavor.
But there, you know, there is something that suggests that the
volatile oils from the basil mayalso help reduce some pest
pressure. But it certainly introduces a
different species into the tomato crop, again, disrupting

(31:04):
that monoculture. So in terms of interplanting and
confusing insect pests, the moreplant species the merrier,
right? The better off we are if we are,
if we are mixing things that aren't in the same family.
So even though texturally speaking, Peppers are different

(31:24):
from tomatoes, they are both nightshades, they are in the
same family. They're going to attract the
same pests often times. They also are going to attract
the same diseases often times. This is even more so when we
talk about like tomatoes and potatoes.
These are not things that we want to mix together.
We don't want to mix kale in with our cauliflower because

(31:48):
they are both brassicas and theyattract the same pests.
We do want to mix things that are not in the same family.
And the more diversity also means more habitat for predatory
insects and for pollinators. So you're also encouraging
beneficials when you are mixing these plant species together.
We also, you know, want to look at that weed suppression crops

(32:09):
that cover the ground like squashes or low growing things
like lettuces. These act as living mulch.
They shade the soil, they reducethe weed seed germination.
Inter planting makes it easier because you don't leave long
stretches of like bare ground for the weeds to move in.
If you look out in nature, it isgoing to be very rare for you to

(32:31):
find bare soil. This is why I talk so much about
mulch. But the same concept applies to
inter planting. The only time that you really
see bare soil out in nature is for only a handful of reasons.
The first one might be allelopathy of some sort.
So if you take for example walnut trees, you're often times
going to see bare soil around the base of the walnut trees

(32:53):
because they do have some allelopathic properties in the
living tissue. So your roots and your your
leaves and stuff that prevent other plants from trying to grow
there. But in most instances, it has to
do with either a very, very dense canopy that only supports
certain plants, and therefore those plants are more sparse.

(33:13):
But there are still plants there, right?
It's not completely bare soil. You go into the forest and there
is a ton of heavy canopy cover that really, really shades you.
There are still plants growing in that canopy cover, right?
Most of the time, if we see baresoil, it is because there has
been some sort of natural disaster.
So either a fire or a flood or amudslide of some sort took all

(33:35):
of those plants out. But very, very quickly after a
natural disaster happens, the advantageous plants start to
move in. So these are the ones that can
spread very, very easily. They germinate very quickly and
they grow very quickly. They get established very fast.
This is Mother Nature's way of, of covering that bare soil so

(33:57):
that you don't lose any more bare soil.
These are plants that can, the seeds can fly in very easily on
the on the breeze. They land, they germinate very
quickly and they are holding that soil in place.
While the main plants that generally would grow there, the
longer lasting plants, the ones that really need to get their
roots in can take their time to get in there.

(34:19):
So eventually what happens is those sort of advantageous
plants will eventually be chokedout by the ones that really do
need to be there, the native species that are deep rooted and
that will generally rebuild the soil.
Those early settling plants function as not just a way to
hold the soil in place, but as they die off, they are feeding

(34:41):
that soil, which means they are feeding the other plants that
are moving in. And this is how, you know,
Mother Nature starts to rebuild the soil after some sort of a
natural disaster. If we think about ourselves in
terms of what we're doing in ourgardens, we are the natural
disaster, y'all. OK, We are telling up the
ground, we are turning the soil over.

(35:02):
We are stripping it of all of the native stuff that was there
initially and starting to grow what we want to grow there.
OK. We are the natural disaster.
We don't want to leave bare soil, so we want to cover that
soil with the things that we want to grow there.

(35:23):
Now we're acting as Mother Nature.
We are putting the things in place that are going to protect
that soil and keep it from moving or blowing away and the
things that are going to set deep roots and things that are
going to feed that soil, right. So we're doing this in
artificial means. We are either planting enough
plants to where that soil is being covered or in most

(35:44):
instances this is a common in combination with using mulch.
So just because I'm doing this inter planting does not mean
that I am not still covering my beds with straw or some other
form of organic mulch. We don't want bare soil.
If we leave bare soil, then those advantageous plants are

(36:05):
going to blow in on the wind. Those are our weeds, and those
are the things that we don't necessarily want there.
So we're going to spend more time pulling those.
I would rather spend my time harvesting spinach or lettuces
or leafy greens or root vegetables from under the canopy
of my taller plants than removing weeds.
OK, so we're still talking aboutusing mulch, but interplanting

(36:28):
is going to help us to cover that ground so that we have a
living mulch that shades the soil and reduces that weed seed
germination. So here is the key to all of
this. This is not random planting.
Strategic spacing is what makes interplanting work without
compromising that airflow or increasing the disease risk.

(36:50):
So if the plants are too close, they're going to compete for
resources. If it's too open, then we're
missing out on that space efficiency.
So how do we balance it? Even though we have those
recommendations like we talked about already of spacing on our
seed packets or in our guides, we essentially just want to
remember that we are planting for the mature size of our

(37:14):
slowest growing crop. So whatever is going to be in
place for the longest part of the season is what we are
planting for in terms of space. OK, using the spacing on your
seed packets or in your workbookis fine, but use it as a guide,
not a rule. We want to adjust slightly based
on our conditions and the plant type.

(37:37):
We also want to make sure that we are orienting and this, I'm
talking to my northern hemisphere gardeners here right
now. If your Southern hemisphere, you
know, some of this is opposite. We want to Orient our taller
crops to the north side of our garden beds if you're in the
northern hemisphere because we would, that's how we prevent too
much shading of smaller crops. Now, sometimes this can be

(37:59):
difficult if we are gardening ina very small space and or we are
using raised planters and we're trying to do multiple planters
with the same sort of crop pairings and we require a
trellis. If there's a trellis on, you
know, the north side of one of these beds, but there's another
one, another bed that's on the north side of that, then we are

(38:21):
sort of in danger of maybe shading things a little bit too
much. So we just have to be strategic
in how we Orient our crops to make sure that we are not
shading those smaller crops too much, right?
Some of them will benefit from it, and that's how we can be
strategic in this. But sometimes, you know, it can
be too much and they just won't grow properly.
So one of the best things that you can do is to remove those

(38:43):
crops as soon as they're done. This is sort of making room by
planning ahead for, you know, what is coming up.
So for example, you know, if we're planting, you know,
radishes and and carrots together, we're harvesting the
radishes and that is clearing that space right as the carrots
are beginning to come to size. We're picking the spinach or the

(39:05):
early lettuce and we're doing that before the broccoli needs
that room. We're pulling up peas from, you
know, when they're done being harvested in the early summer
and we're placing them with something else, with beans or
cucumbers or something that can utilize that trellis.
So we're thinking ahead as we'redoing this.
All of these transitions requireplanning.

(39:25):
So when you are mapping out yourbeds, think in terms of yes, we
want to do these inter plantingsand we want to pay attention to
our successions as well. So space it out in terms of what
your crop that is going to be inplace for the longest needs in
terms of space and then fill in around it.

(39:49):
So every time that we are interplanting thoughtfully, we
are not just growing more, we'renot getting that, you know, just
just yield maximization. We are helping the soil to stay
healthy. In terms of root diversity,
different plants have different root depths and different
patterns, right? So tap roots like carrots will

(40:10):
break up that soil compaction. If you have fibrous roots from
the lettuce or brassicas, these stabilize the surface of the
soil and they encourage microbial activity.
By mixing up the different root structures, you are improving
the nutrient access for all of the plants.
We are reducing erosion, and we're just building healthier

(40:31):
microbial networks. So healthier soil, healthier
plants, healthier plants, the better they are able to resist
insect pressure. So interplanting helps to
stabilize the microclimate around your crops.
This is reducing evaporation. It is reducing the wild
temperature swings. You are creating your own little

(40:54):
microclimate in in your garden. So this means again, healthier
plants and more consistent yields.
So more efficient use of space doesn't mean crowding as many
plants in that you possibly can.It means timing and it means
layering. Let me give you some examples of
the pairings that I am doing in my garden this year, like right

(41:16):
now, OK. Of course, I've always got
carrots and radishes together. So I've got individual rows of
carrots in my raised planters. I have radishes in between
those. As I'm thinning those radishes
out, the carrots are getting more space, but I also have
chives planted on either end of those raised planters and those

(41:38):
are permanently in place. Those are perennials that come
back every year and that is something that I'm experimenting
with a little bit in terms of mycompanion plantings is planting
perennials that act as my companions to help with insect
pressure and then just planting the beds according accordingly,
right? So this year it's carrots and
radishes and there's tribes on the ends.
One of my favorite sort of pairings that I'm doing this

(42:00):
year is I have 5 beds that all have trellises that are created
out of cattle panel. If you know what cattle panel
is, they're like, you know, 5 foot tall fence panels that are
meant to keep cattle in, but they're held up with T posts.
And so I have these, you know, these long rows of those cattle

(42:21):
panels and there is bed space that's wide in between each of
them. So I have planted sugar snap
peas all along those fence panels and I have done that on
the I have to get my bearings here on on the West side of
those panels, right. This is in a field where those
panels are running north to South.

(42:42):
And so of course the sun is coming up on one side and it's
going on the other. And so it's a full sun area.
So the peas are being planted onthe West side of those
trellises. And then I have lettuces that
are planted in the beds that areadjacent to those panels.
So the lettuce, I'm sorry, the peas are, are just now sort of

(43:04):
slowly starting to grow up those, those panels, the
lettuces are all filling in in between.
But as the season continues, I'mgoing to be transplanting my
tomatoes in and they are going to go on the other side of the
trellises. So they are going to be on the
east side of the trellises. So what's going to happen is the

(43:25):
peas are going to grow and they are going to provide the
lettuces and those baby tomato plants eventually with some
afternoon shade as the sun comesup and it moves from the east to
the West, the afternoon sun is going to shine down on those
trellises. And at the hottest part of the
season, the early at the spring anyway, the peas are going to

(43:48):
shade those lettuces. Gives me a little bit more time
to get those lettuces out of there.
The tomatoes in their early, youknow, stages can benefit from
that afternoon shade too, because it can tend to be
really, really hot in that field.
But once the peas are done, I'm going to cut those pea plants
down and I'm going to leave the roots in the soil.

(44:08):
So we've talked about what legumes can do to our soil.
They harvest that. We have nodules, right?
There's there's beneficial bacteria that create nodules on
the roots of legumes that enablethe plant to capture atmospheric
nitrogen, utilize it, trap it inthose nodules.
We chop those plants down, we leave those roots with the

(44:29):
nodules in the soil and as it breaks down, it re releases that
nitrogen back into the soil. And what do tomatoes like?
They like nitrogen. So they're going to let use that
nitrogen as they are maturing and before they start, you know,
giving their fruit or producing their fruit.
So and in the meantime, I can finish harvesting all those
lettuces and then the tomatoes get to take full advantage of

(44:52):
the trellises. As we get into the late summer.
I can plant lettuces again in that same space because once
again, now the tomatoes are fully mature and they are going
to provide the shade in the afternoon for those lettuces in
order to be able to get through the hottest part of the late
summer, to survive, to get to fall.
OK, so peas with lettuces into tomatoes back into lettuce

(45:16):
again, all in one space. I love it.
And I'm going to take some pictures of this and kind of
post about it as as it goes on. So I will do some some reels and
some YouTube shorts. You guys can see that stuff.
The next one is my classic. OK, I got my cabbages right.
I have lettuces planted with thecabbages.
I have onions in terms of green onions down the center of all of

(45:43):
that, and then I have sweet alyssum growing as a living
mulch underneath. So this is doing all kinds of
things in terms of confusing insect pests and bringing in
beneficials and just giving us areal wide diversity of plants in
the same bed. I have done beats.
So we started the beats first intheir rows as the beats were

(46:03):
coming up and these are again, and these are in raised
planters, the beats came up. And then in between the rows of
the beats, I have planted kale or I have planted kohl, Robbie.
So we've got that sort of, you know, the beats are underneath.
So at that point we're kind of considering them the low growing
ones. They're they're lower down.

(46:24):
And then we have the kale that'sgrowing above or the kohlrabi
that is growing above. So neither one of them is
impeding on the other. The beats are going to end up
coming out first, the ones that are compared with the kale,
right? The the beets will come out
first. The kale will get to stay in
place because I harvest kale sort of long term.
So I'm harvesting the larger leaves, larger outer leaves,

(46:47):
letting the center continue to grow.
So it's there for an extended period of time, you know, months
in the season, just continuing to harvest and it's getting
taller and taller and eventuallyit just looks like a little palm
tree. There's nothing at the bottom.
There's all the leaves at the top, but continuing to harvest
off of that. As I am harvesting off of that.
And as soon as the soil warms up, I am planting cucumbers on
the north side of those beds. So there will be a trellis there

(47:09):
and the cucumbers will start to grow up that trellis, but they
will also vine out across the soil.
So they are going to be kind of in and amongst that kale by the
time the kale is is tall enough,you know, the, the, the
cucumbers can sort of intertwineunderneath.
Now, this is going to take a little bit of management on my
part to make sure that the cucumbers don't grow to the

(47:33):
point where they're choking out the kale.
So this is a little bit experimental, but I can also,
you know, fully harvest the kaleif I want to and remove it
completely if it doesn't seem like that pairing is working.
I'm doing the same thing with the ones that have the kohlrabi
planted in between. But the kohlrabi is likely going
to mature either before or at the same time as the beets.

(47:54):
So it's very possible that thosewill be completely removed as
the cucumbers begin to grow. So these are two different
pairings that are a little bit newer for me, and it's just a
matter of sort of managing the space as the cucumbers grow.
Another one that I'm doing is I have beds or rows of Pak choy,
which I harvest some of it as baby bok choy, but I do the

(48:18):
really big heads of bok choy andin between those I have rows of
baby spinach that is coming up. So the spinach is growing right
now. A Pak choy takes a little bit
longer to come to maturity, so Ican have a ton of harvest of
spinach off of that while I'm waiting for the Pak choy to come
up. And then I've got that planted
with borders of pansies and euphorbia with zucchini.

(48:39):
I'm doing nasturtiums in and amongst the zucchini.
I am doing basil and Rosemary and marigolds in and amongst my
tomatoes. In another area I've got some
beds where I did dill all aroundthe edges and as the dill came
up I have now planted Bush beansin the center.
As the Bush beans mature later on, I will transition that to
kohlrabi for the fall. So this is a good example of

(49:02):
inter planting that is also a succession planting because I've
already got my fall succession planned out.
In some of the beds I have saladturnips that are growing right
now and in between those rows I will be transplanting eggplants
and marigolds. So eventually the salad turnips
will come out and the eggplant, the marigolds will take over the

(49:23):
entire space. But in the meantime, I have
something taking up the space inbetween those rows.
Now, what am I experimenting with?
We talked a little bit last weekabout sunflowers and the fact
that they are allelopathic to a certain extent to a lot of other
plants, and I am experimenting with exactly how closely I can

(49:44):
plant things next to the base ofsunflowers before they are
affected by this. So I have two sections where I
am doing sunflowers and I am going to experiment at the base
of 1 planting green onions. And green onions, you know,
mature fairly quickly. So I will know fairly quickly
whether or not the sunflowers are kind of giving them a

(50:05):
problem. The sunflower or the green
onions go in first. Obviously they're a cool weather
plant and as soon as the soil astemperature is warm enough, I
will be planting the sunflowers from seed.
So the green onions should have plenty of time to get
established before the sunflowers really start to come
up. And then I'll be able to pull
the green onions out before the sunflowers get to maturity.
So I think that sort of relay planting style is actually going

(50:30):
to work. The one that I'm really
questioning is sunflowers with carrots.
Just how close can I get? And it's a little bit, I'm
planting the carrots a little bit later than what I normally
plant carrots. And so the experiment here is to
be planting the carrots. And then as the carrots come up,
once the soil temperature startsto warm a bit, I can put the

(50:52):
sunflowers directly in there. And again, I'm going to plant
those sunflowers on the West side of the carrots so that they
get shaded in the afternoon fromthat late afternoon really hot
sun. So can I plant them far enough
away that they aren't negativelyimpacted by the sunflowers, but
close enough to where they take advantage of the shade?

(51:13):
That is the experiment. I will let you know how well
that works. Another one that I'm doing is
using mint as weed suppression under lettuce and collards that
goes into a crop of cucumbers. I know most people are like, Oh
my gosh, don't plant mint because it takes over it.
That's kind of the point with this.

(51:34):
So this is in a set of my planter box direct planters, and
I planted mint in those beds last year and they've all come
back up beautifully. And I chose chocolate mint,
which is a fairly low growing sort of sprawling type of
peppermint. And each of those beds right now
either has head lettuces. So I didn't do loose leaf

(51:56):
lettuces, knowing that the mint would probably choke that out.
I did head lettuces, which tend to have a more upright growth
habit, so I can direct the mint around the lettuces.
I also did collards. So again, larger growing plant
that is going to stay in place for an extended period of time
because I harvest off the lot the the larger leaves off the

(52:17):
outside and allow the center to continue to grow.
So they're going to get a bit taller.
So they should be able to, you know, lift themselves up and
away from the mint without beingchoked out.
So eventually the lettuces are going to come out completely and
I will be planting cucumbers nowin this space.
I'm going to transplant the cucumbers rather than direct

(52:37):
sowing them so that they're theydon't have to compete as heavily
with that mint. And the hope is that the mint
not only acts as a living mulch at the base of the plants, but
also you have that really strongscent of the mint that maybe
will help with the cucumber beetles that I get plagued with.
So we'll see how that goes. I will also be doing the same
thing in with the collards. The collards are only planted

(52:59):
along the South side of the bed.So the cucumbers will be planted
in on the north side of that andgrow up a trellis, which also,
you know, will help. Well, I guess it won't really
help with shading because it's going to be on the north side.
So it's not going to shade thosecollars, which is fine.
The collards like the heat it up, it should be no problem.
So it's just a matter of whetheror not the cucumbers choke out

(53:20):
the mint or if the mint, you know, interferes with the
cucumbers in some way. So again, this is completely
experimental. I have all kinds of beds that
I'm doing these experiments withthis year, right?
And then we already talked aboutmy trap crop experiment with the
blue Hubbard squash to sort of draw the squash bugs and the
squash vine bores away from my other summer squashes and
zucchinis. So I've got the blue Hubbard

(53:41):
squash, which is also being paired with marigolds that also
attract squash bugs, plus some pheromone traps that also
attract the squash vine borer. So we're hoping to use that sort
of combination to help draw the the insect pest away from the
zucchini. I'm also doing a relay planting,
which is one that I've done before of my garlic and my

(54:03):
onions that were planted in the fall.
And as the soil warms up and it's time for the Peppers to go
in, Peppers will be inter planted amongst the garlic and
the onions. And by the time it's time to put
to harvest the garlic and the onions in June, we'll be right
about the time that the Peppers really start to take off and
start to increase in size. And so the hope is, you know,

(54:25):
again, which I've done this before, the garlic and the
onions will help to repel some the insect pests that might want
to try to plague those Peppers while they're in their infancy.
And by the time the garlic and onions come out, the Peppers are
ready to go to maturity. Okay.
Some things that I don't companion plant with or I don't
interplant with things like okra.
Okra grows tall. I tend to grow them in a fairly

(54:48):
thick stand. So as long as I have some mulch
underneath there, there's not really any type of a need for me
to have any type of a intercropping with okra because
it really does shade the entire bed out with its height and how
and how sort of densely I plant them.
So I've never seen any kind of real need to have anything mixed

(55:10):
in with the okra. Plus I don't really have any
pests for okra in my area. Now, I don't plant huge, you
know, a whole acre of it by itself either.
So it is, you know, a bed that is mixed in with my other crops
out there. So it's not really a monoculture
in terms of it's the only thing that's being planted.
There are other plant species out there, they're just not in
the same bed. So if I think of something or if

(55:32):
you have, you know, interplantedsomething with okra before, let
me know. It might be something that I
would like to try. The other thing that I don't
really interplant anything with is potatoes, either sweet
potatoes or Irish potatoes. They are all mulched with straw,
but because I plant them in mounds or I plant them just
directly into straw. In the terms of the the regular

(55:53):
Irish potatoes, there's not really anything that I plant
with it because especially with sweet potatoes, they tend to
take up the entire space fairly quickly and they need that room
to vine. So I'm just giving them the
space to do that and they do that fairly quickly.
So they will, they will kind of cover that soil without any help
from me. The same thing with the

(56:13):
potatoes. They really will grow nice and
tall and start to shade out anything that's on either side
of those beds. And I use straw underneath there
because I've never really found anything that I thought would
make a really good inter planting with Irish potatoes.
So there are some things that I don't inter plant, but they are
few and far between. Yeah, I know this was a little

(56:34):
bit of a longer episode, but I really wanted you to have the
information so that you can really implement this because,
you know, if you haven't seen itdone with your own 2 apples, it
is sometimes hard to grasp this concept.
I end up getting a lot of blank stares from people when I talk
at the farmers market stand. I'm like, what do you mean
planted with this? And, and mostly it's because of

(56:57):
the spacing issue. So think about, you know, again,
keeping that mantra, that mantra, mantra, mantra, keeping
that mantra in your brain high, low, fast, low.
So pair your tall plants with your short ones and your fast
growing plants with your slow ones.
And that gives you more from every square foot that you are
gardening in. Inter planting all of these
different families together is going to help reduce your pests

(57:19):
and it's going to help reduce the weeds naturally.
So you're going to have to have,you know, worry less about
having issues with those things.Thoughtful spacing is what we
want to think about to ensure that airflow and that also helps
with disease prevention. So planning ahead is going to
help you transition between yourcrops and keep in mind what the

(57:40):
space is needed for your largestcrop at maturity if you're
keeping your beds full all season long.
All of this together supports the soil health, it supports
biodiversity and gives us a better yield.
So start small, maybe 1 bed where you, you know, try a
couple of different combinationsor use some examples of what I

(58:04):
provided so that you kind of have a foundation of things that
you know have worked at least for somebody else before.
Use, you know, your garden planning journal or use my
workbook or whatever to sketch it out or at least write it out
in terms of measurements. And don't forget to track your
timing and your harvest so that you can fine tune this for next

(58:26):
season. If you found any of this
helpful, will you share it with a gardening friend?
The way that this podcast grows is by people sharing that
information with each other. And I really do think that this
is one of those episodes or one of those concepts that can help
so many people, especially if you are gardening in a small

(58:47):
area, but also if they're dealing with pests or weed
pressure. And if you haven't downloaded
the garden planning workbook that I have, you can head to
justgrowsomething.com. It's in the shop over there.
You can grab your copy. You will find tools that will
help you to maximize the yield from in your beds.
Can you do it on the fly? Yeah, I do it.

(59:08):
I do it all the time. But I've been doing this for a
really long time. So if you find yourself in a
situation where you're staring down at the garden bed and you
go, there seems to be a lot of space in between these plants,
that might be the perfect opportunity for you to try one
of these techniques. Just remember to pinpoint the
one thing that is going to be inthat garden bed for the longest

(59:31):
and figure out what size it is at maturity and then plan from
there. Until next time, my gardening
friends, keep on cultivating that dream garden, and we'll
talk again soon.

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Smarter Planting for Bigger Harvests: Interplanting Strategies - Ep. 247

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Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2

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