November 27, 2025 • 22 mins
What if the bravest move isn’t silence, but a phone call that keeps you here? We sit down with Dale Fewson from the Arkansas Crisis Center to unpack the quiet reality many veterans face: feeling alone in a crowd. From the Chaplain Corps to crisis response, Dale brings a ground-level view of loneliness, stigma, and the decisions people make at 3 a.m. We talk candidly about why some veterans press Option 2 on 988 instead of the Veterans Crisis Line, and what it takes to meet them with trust, speed, and the right resources the first time.
Across the hour, we connect the dots between immediate support and true prevention. Dale shares how skilled call specialists do more than listen—they map reputable, local resources that fit each person’s needs. We explore spiritual triage, where care centers those closest to death so they are not alone, and how that lens broadens our approach to suicide prevention beyond checklists. We also dig into practical tools: improving sleep to break the stress spiral, movement and cold exposure for nervous system balance, and using neuroplasticity to rewire patterns that keep the brain stuck in survival mode.
Collaboration sits at the heart of real change. Dale outlines a plan to strengthen existing veterans’ services through training, awareness, and upstream partnerships that make belonging and purpose part of the safety net. We highlight why comparison harms recovery—your crisis is your crisis—and why speaking up early is an act of strength. If you’re supporting a veteran, you’ll leave with concrete ways to show up without overstepping. If you’re struggling, you’ll hear a clear message: you’re not alone, and help is one call away.
If this conversation lands with you, hit follow, share it with someone who needs hope, and leave a quick review so more people can find support. And if safety feels uncertain right now, call or text 988. Your story can change. We’re here for it.
If you are in a crisis or feel unsafe, call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Jessica G, and this is the Justin Time
Podcast.
If you're struggling today, Iwant you to know this podcast is
here for you, but it's not asubstitute for professional
help.
If you're in a crisis or feelunsafe, please call or text 988
or dial 911 for immediatesupport.
There are people out there whowill listen and can help.
On this show, I'll be sharingpersonal experiences, mindset
(00:22):
shifts, talking with keyexperts, and sharing real tools
that help me go from barelysurviving to thriving.
This is not about quick fixes orone size fits all advice.
It's raw, it's honest, it's whatworked for me and what I believe
can help others too.
Let's walk together fromdarkness to hope.
(00:45):
Hello, hello.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us on Justin Time.
Today I'm so excited to announcewe have Del Fusen.
Welcome, Del.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
So Dell is newly uh located and he is working with
the Arkansas Crisis Hotline herein Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah, so I uh just joined a couple weeks ago with
the Arkansas Crisis Center tohelp develop a uh veterans
program for them to help bettersupport the veterans in
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
That's amazing, and I think that's just so much
needed.
Um, can you tell me some of thestruggles that um you've noticed
in the veteran community andkind of what they face?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Yeah, so I uh recently uh left Active Duty Air
Force and uh transitioned overto the Air National Guard down
here in Arkansas.
My wife grew up in Arkansas, sowe kind of make coming back home
for her.
Uh and so my time active duty,it's um definitely you can you
get to see a lot of like thestruggles that people go
(01:48):
through.
And you know, a lot of times wesay, Oh, it's the Air Force,
they've got it easy there, theysleep in hotels when they
travel.
Like there is the easy part, butyou see a lot of isolation, you
see a lot of lonely peoplesurrounded by a lot of people.
Uh, and so personally, I've uh Iworked in the Chaplain Corps,
and so we did uh respond to alot of crises.
(02:10):
Uh so people going through theirworst times and um having family
members calling us up sayingthat um their their loved one
has uh just passed away and kindof dealing with that.
And so uh yeah, just seeing thethe the loneliness that um is uh
is surrounded um in the veterancommunity, active duty, and also
(02:33):
once they um once they leave theservice.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Yes.
Well, I know the statistic, youknow, for suicide and veterans
is really high.
Um so thank you for what you'redoing and uh the program that
you're trying to create andbuild.
Um what would you say is anotherstruggle within the crisis
hotline that you have noticed?
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
Uh within the within the crisis hotline.
Um I mean from veteran specific.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Yeah, you mentioned something about dialing one or
dialing two.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
So um correct me if I'm wrong, but it's uh you call
998 and if you push option one,you'll get the veterans crisis
line.
Uh if you push option two,you'll you'll come to to us um
the suicide and crisis line.
And so what we're finding isthat we have veterans uh who are
not dialing one to go to theveteran crisis line, but they're
(03:28):
dialing two to come to the umjust the more the general um
suicide and crisis hotline.
And so we really want to um digdown into that and figure out
why.
Um, but more than the why is thehow.
How do we um how do we supportthose uh veterans that are
coming to us uh and help them uhget the help.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Why do you think they're um dialing two instead
of one?
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Does that yeah, I um I think there's a lot of stigma
uh behind uh veterans callingthe the VA or the veterans line,
and um whether it's anecdotallynot getting the help or friends
not getting the help they needor something like that is the
(04:17):
the and there's a lot of shameas well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
So like the veteran system maybe not be working as
well as it ought to be, isbasically what you're saying.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
At a bad um experience, experience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Or didn't get the help or care that they needed.
Exactly.
Okay, and that's why you're umworking along with the Arkansas
crisis line to develop a programthat can help veterans
specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
Yes, and that's why I brought you on the show today,
because I think it's reallyimportant and you have lived
experience of dealing with that,um, or maybe you not personally,
um, but being in the fieldyourself, you know, you have
seen and probably have lost, youknow, other fellow fellow
soldiers.
Um what is one thing that youthink that someone like me or uh
(05:05):
family members could do tosupport uh veterans that you
know are going through a hardtime but may not want to talk
about it?
Like what would be a way to showsupport to them uh without
crossing a line, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
Yeah, I I think um I my personal experience has been
a lot of a lot of the veteransthat I've worked with have had
um it's like the I come back toloneliness and isolation.
It's that feeling of and youknow, where it's it's not just
(05:38):
veterans, it's like all of usnow in the digital age where um
we're so connected yet we feelso isolated.
And and it is it is a um aversion of that where uh these
um friends or relatives that youknow you'll see them out um in
public um having a good time andbut deep down inside they feel
(06:02):
absolutely alone, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Yeah, uh and so it's really like or are struggling
with PTSD, things like that.
Um so is there a program umwithin the veteran community
that supports PTSD or one thatyou could list off that could um
someone that's like wanting helpwith PTSD could um reach out?
Would that just be through thecrisis line?
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Yeah, through the crisis line to help.
Um the I guess the advantage ofcall like calling crisis uh line
is that the uh the callspecialists there are equipped
to find resources.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
So they'll get that person connected with the right
person for them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Correct.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
So it it's more like the So whether they dial one or
whether they dial two, they'regoing the Argonze Crisis Line is
going to find the right resourcefor that individual.
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Just stay on the line until they get back to you,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
And um, and it's good to kind oftalk it through with um the call
specialist as well.
And and a good call specialistwill take the time to find where
you are, what what are theclosest resources, what
resources have um goodreputations as well.
So it's not just they're notjust trying to get you off the
(07:21):
phone.
It's it's about finding the bestuh resource and support for you
and your situation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Okay, awesome.
Um, and then a little bit moreabout the program.
Really curious about this.
Like, so what kind of programare you feeling like are you
going to design?
Is it going to be like anintensive program that could be
online or in person?
Or what what is your um goal forthat?
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
So our goal really is to figure out how we can
support and collaborate thegreat work that's already
happening in the in the veteran.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Okay, so with other nonprofits already that are in
that sector.
So like just combining and justbecoming a big powerhouse and
then creating something out ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Yeah, so so um the Arkansas Crisis Center, we our
um our bread and butter is isthe the core line, is the crisis
line.
So it's that it's that personthat at three o'clock in the
morning is at their absolutelowest and they don't know who
to reach out to.
Yeah.
They just call 988.
(08:24):
And um so that's our that's ourbread and butter.
Um, and what we like to say,that's kind of like the that's
at the edge of the waterfall,that aspect.
So it's like it's the last stopthat people feel.
Uh but we wanna we wanna moveupstream from that for true
prevention, true prevention,yes, exactly right.
(08:45):
So we want to work with otherorganizations that they may have
suicide prevention as a pillarof organization, but it's just
one pillar.
And so, how do we come andsupport that pillar for them?
Yes, um, and provide ourexpertise with suicide
prevention trainings, um,education and awareness um
whilst they're promoting umtheir wellness and community
(09:08):
helping veterans find theirpurpose and meaning once they uh
once they fold up that uniform.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
I think that is such a great idea.
And uh I was telling youearlier, you know, one of the
reasons why I opened up, well,the biggest reason why I opened
up just in time was because Iwanted to create a program that
harnesses neuroplasticity tofight suicide.
I had gone to Germany and I didthis um intensive and
progressive workshop with Dr.
Joe Dispenza, and it's nothingto do with suicide, it's just
(09:35):
more like self-help stuff.
But it comes back to likereprogramming the brain, how you
think is how you feel.
And if you're feeling a certainway, it's because you're
thinking a certain way.
And it completely changed mylife.
And, you know, I don't strugglewith suicide ideation.
It's not something I I used tothink about it every single day.
And now I'm finally living alife where I feel empowered.
Uh, you know, I'm not justcoping with my life.
(09:58):
And for me, I was like, I didn'twant like coping mechanisms were
great and everything.
But and and I don't, you know, Idon't know, correct, please
correct me if I'm wrong, butmaybe, you know, veterans,
they've been through so much, somuch training, this and that.
And it's like I feel like maybethey just want relief, you know.
(10:18):
And for me, um to kind of likeconnect the dots here, it was
like I was I was in so much painin my own way, and I was
struggling from PTSD.
I was a second person to find mybrother, and you know, it just
kept replaying and replaying,and I couldn't sleep.
And once you can't sleep,there's just like so many other,
you know, disorders and yourmental health start to decline.
And so, you know, on the show,we've talked about you know,
(10:40):
things that we can do as far astaking care of our body, like
cold plunging, working out,taking vitamins, eating,
sleeping, all the things thatour brain needs.
But at the end of the day, wehave to reprogram ourselves, and
that's basically what I did.
I reprogrammed my brain, but ittook a long time, and it took
this program that I just, youknow, um learned about through
(11:03):
some of my friends in Germany,and they're like, You need to
come and take this course.
And I was like, Okay.
And it he talks about being insurvival mode, right?
And I think for veterans, likeconstantly in survival mode, you
know.
Um, I don't want to talk aboutany of the horror stories from
some of my friends that havelost loved ones, but when I hear
(11:25):
some of the things that veteranshave gone through and have seen,
that doesn't put you in a placeof peace.
It it keeps your brain insurvival.
So I'm wondering if there'ssomething that we could do to
collaborate also with everybodyelse to help create a program,
um, like a little part of justin time um with the veterans.
(11:46):
So yes, because like that is ourmain goal.
And sometimes, like, you know,we're just we're a small
nonprofit, but we partnered withAFSP, and that has been just
amazing education.
And and um I think it's helpedso many people.
And for me, it's not like thatjust in time needs to do
everything.
It's it's like you said, it'scollaborating with all these
(12:07):
other forces that already haveyou know put all this effort and
energy into building it and thenbuilding from there.
And I think that's where youknow true change can come from.
So I am so excited to have metyou and um brought you on the
show.
Um, and you've only been inArkansas for a month, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
So as an Australian, wait, you were in Washington, DC
before, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Washington State.
Or Washington State, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Um, so that what you mentioned, like that's freezing
cold.
So Arkansas is not as cold, butdoes it get cold in Australia at
all?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Not where I grew up, um in Perth.
It was just it's a warm climate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Like all year round, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Pretty much.
Like the winters are are like Islike California?
Yeah, I think someone told melike San Diego is is similar to
Perth.
I don't know if that's true, butit's 114 in the summer and like
Oh wow, like the winters arelike 55.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
I think Australia's a might be a little hotter.
Okay, yeah, yeah, a littlewarmer.
Um, did you surf or anything?
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Uh I grew up bodyboarding.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
And never got the ha uh hang of stand-up.
Like I just I my balance, Idon't know what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
But all right.
Well, my husband and I we have aboat.
We're gonna invite you to BeaverLake and we're gonna teach you
how to wake surf.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Dude, it's so someone told me about that and
said, Oh, it's just so surfing.
Yeah, that'd be that'd beawesome.
SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
I mean, your wife and me will both be pregnant.
Uh-huh.
Well, no, I next summer we'llalready have the baby.
So it'll it'll be great.
That'll be awesome.
Yeah.
Exactly.
We'll let the guys drive and uhmy husband can teach you, so
that will be really cool.
We'll have to do that.
Yeah, awesome.
Well, welcome to Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Um, thank you so much for all the work that you
do.
I'm really excited.
Um, is there anything else thatyou want to talk about today
that you can think of that you'dlike to share with everyone?
Or a piece of information umlike or something personal that
maybe helped you when you maybehad struggles with mental health
(14:01):
or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Yeah, I I think the like the notion of like, oh,
what I've gone through, likepeople have gone through worse.
And if we talk about um I waspart of a mass casualty team um
at Fairchild F war space and wehad um I can't remember the
exact term.
It was uh it was a the fortriaging um the folks and it was
(14:27):
it was medical, but then we asthe religious support team um
would come in and helpspiritually triage, which is
like those that those that aremost closest to uh to death, we
look after them first.
Whereas medically, you lookafter those who survive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:43):
So spiritual triage?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah, spiritual triage.
So it's kind of spendingspending that time with with
members that um as closer closerto death.
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
The end, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
And so um, but when we do that, yeah, it's I know.
Um and it it is kind of a a bitof a um mindfucker, as it were.
Yeah.
Um, because you're like, well,medically you want it those that
are most likely to survive, butspiritually, you're like, okay,
these are the these are right atthe end, you want to be with
them in that time because thatthat is uh for a lot of people
(15:15):
very tough time.
Um but like when we're whenyou're triaging, they talk about
uh possi a possible it used tobe a traumatic event, and that's
what it was.
And that could be a you know aplane crash or something like
that, and then more recentlyit's been redefined as a
possible traumatic event becausewhat someone goes through, two
(15:36):
people can go through the samething and have a different
experience, differentexperience.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
So, like your crisis is your crisis, um it's not
always the truth of exactly whathappened, exactly, but it's a
different experience because thebrain can just
decompartmentalize and yeah, andand then you also remember
incorrectly too.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
And so the real piece of encouragement that I
have um that I share witheveryone is just talk.
Like don't don't go, well, Iknow I know my mate went through
so much worse.
Um but if you're having feelingsthat you're having, talk about
it.
unknown (16:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Um, don't just isolate yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
So comparison is something that you saw a lot of
guys do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, and there's a quote that I go by too.
It's comparison is the thief ofjoy, too, you know.
Um so don't make yourself small,even if somebody else went
through something harder, stillvalidate your feelings, is what
I'm hearing you say.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And and that's huge.
Find that help, that um theresources are there.
Um just just look for them.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Wow.
Spiritual triage, that is justlike mind-blowing.
Like I'm just like imagining youon the field going through that.
I mean, how was that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
Um so for me, um, like I never really was involved
in, you know, thankfully neverinvolved in real-world um mass
casualties.
But going through the trainingfor it was intensely training.
Yeah, is definitely um beingable to to understand that that
(17:09):
uh mindset of you know, withspiritual fitness, it's about
yeah, purpose and meaning.
Yeah, it's like why why why arewe on this earth?
Um, we're not like you saidbefore, like we're we're not a
bunch of islands, like all ofthese little nonprofits, we're
all one big island, yeah.
Um pursuing one big meaning.
(17:30):
And so it's that what is yourpurpose?
What is your meaning?
And sometimes we go through bigthings that help us find it, and
other times it's just intrinsic,and we're like, okay, and so
yeah, it's helping people findthat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:44):
I can see why they brought you on the team now.
Um, I think like in life ingeneral, I mean, even people
that aren't struggling,sometimes they just feel lost in
general because they're not tiedto their purpose, or you know
what is the meaning for themthere, you know.
So I think that's I think that'shuge.
And I think when people do,especially for someone that is,
(18:07):
you know, struggling when theydo find that and tie themselves
to that.
Um that does when you have morepurpose, it does give you more
um drive and will to want tolive, you know.
Um I was gonna ask you one morequestion.
Oh, yes, what was it that madeyou get into this um career
(18:28):
field?
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Um so I guess like serendipity is what actually got
me into the career field.
Uh so I'm I'm old, I was an oldrecruit into the Air Force.
So my wife she joined, then Imet her.
Um, I had a previous career inrunning coffee shops and coffee
roasting.
Uh that was kind of my passion,that was my passion.
(18:50):
Uh, and then I met my wife, andI was like, I can't move coffee
shops when we move bases.
So I was like, I um let that go.
And then my one of my bestmates, uh, he was uh EOD, which
is like the bomb disposal in theAir Force.
So yeah, he was a total badass.
Uh I'd train with him, we'd workout together, and so I told him,
(19:13):
Hey, I want to join the AirForce.
I'm 35, and um he's like, Well,um, go EOD.
And I'm like, no, I'm not crazy.
Like, I can't just like where'sthat bomb?
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Like, I'm not you're the crazy one.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
Um, and so he introduced me to uh, but I
wanted to go special warfarebecause yeah, I'm just one of
those dudes that like I have todo the hardest thing I can find.
So um he told me about SEAR,which is the survival uh
instructor uh training uh forthe Air Force, and so I joined
um Seer to begin with in the AirForce, and then my wife uh she's
(19:50):
short notice deployed.
And so I was in in the middle oftraining, it's pretty intense
training.
Um it's like you know, 12, 14hour days.
And then you get homework to do,and so it's intense.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
I I know a guy actually um in California, it
was in San Diego, um that had agovernment job, and he helped
basically train how to um how doyou say it disemble the like so
the bomb doesn't go off?
Uh-yeah, what is it called?
Bomb disposal or bomb disposal,yeah.
Yeah, and disarm, yes, disarm abomb, and like training for you
(20:24):
know the Air Force and every andlike all the Marine Corps,
everyone and uh that that can bereally intense too, yeah, um,
and situations and they actuallysent him over, he was in the
army, they sent him over, Ithink it was Afghanistan, and
some of the things that he cameback and had to deal with.
And my heart goes out to thisperson too.
(20:44):
Um, because I've seen himstruggle, you know, up and down
with alcoholism and just tryingto like numb that pain.
And he's gone to um the veteranscommunity and is is try to get
help.
And you know, I just keeptelling him, like, don't give
up, like keep trying.
Um, because I know after goingthrough something like that, it
(21:05):
it's it's really, really hard.
Yeah.
So I have a lot of compassionfor him.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Hopefully, it clicks one day.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
I'm hoping.
Actually, after this podcast,I'm gonna call him and check on
him because I haven't checked onhim in a minute.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
But be a good friend.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
He's such a beautiful soul, too, you know.
But sometimes life just can getyou really can get you down, you
know?
And but that's why we're here.
We're just in time to savealive, and we've got the crisis
hotline.
So call 988 if you'restruggling.
And um, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
No worries, we appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
It's glad to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
And I'm holding you to the surfing session next
year.
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I'm gonna face plant, I know it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
That's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Awesome.
Oh my gosh, that was cool.
That is awesome.
If you're struggling, rememberhow you think is how you feel.
If your feelings feel heavy,start by shifting the thought.
You're not stuck, your brain canchange, so can your story.
I'm Jessica G.
This is the Justin Time podcast,and I'll see you next time.
Until then, keep going.
Never give up.
(22:04):
And remember, the world isbetter with you in it, whether
you believe it or not.
To help reach others, pleaseshare this with your friends,
family, and don't forget tolike, subscribe, and donate.
Hi, I'm Jessica G, and this is the Justin Time
Podcast.
If you're struggling today, Iwant you to know this podcast is
here for you, but it's not asubstitute for professional
help.
If you're in a crisis or feelunsafe, please call or text 988
or dial 911 for immediatesupport.
There are people out there whowill listen and can help.
On this show, I'll be sharingpersonal experiences, mindset
(00:22):
shifts, talking with keyexperts, and sharing real tools
that help me go from barelysurviving to thriving.
This is not about quick fixes orone size fits all advice.
It's raw, it's honest, it's whatworked for me and what I believe
can help others too.
Let's walk together fromdarkness to hope.
(00:45):
Hello, hello.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us on Justin Time.
Today I'm so excited to announcewe have Del Fusen.
Welcome, Del.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
So Dell is newly uh located and he is working with
the Arkansas Crisis Hotline herein Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah, so I uh just joined a couple weeks ago with
the Arkansas Crisis Center tohelp develop a uh veterans
program for them to help bettersupport the veterans in
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
That's amazing, and I think that's just so much
needed.
Um, can you tell me some of thestruggles that um you've noticed
in the veteran community andkind of what they face?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Yeah, so I uh recently uh left Active Duty Air
Force and uh transitioned overto the Air National Guard down
here in Arkansas.
My wife grew up in Arkansas, sowe kind of make coming back home
for her.
Uh and so my time active duty,it's um definitely you can you
get to see a lot of like thestruggles that people go
(01:48):
through.
And you know, a lot of times wesay, Oh, it's the Air Force,
they've got it easy there, theysleep in hotels when they
travel.
Like there is the easy part, butyou see a lot of isolation, you
see a lot of lonely peoplesurrounded by a lot of people.
Uh, and so personally, I've uh Iworked in the Chaplain Corps,
and so we did uh respond to alot of crises.
(02:10):
Uh so people going through theirworst times and um having family
members calling us up sayingthat um their their loved one
has uh just passed away and kindof dealing with that.
And so uh yeah, just seeing thethe the loneliness that um is uh
is surrounded um in the veterancommunity, active duty, and also
(02:33):
once they um once they leave theservice.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Yes.
Well, I know the statistic, youknow, for suicide and veterans
is really high.
Um so thank you for what you'redoing and uh the program that
you're trying to create andbuild.
Um what would you say is anotherstruggle within the crisis
hotline that you have noticed?
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
Uh within the within the crisis hotline.
Um I mean from veteran specific.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Yeah, you mentioned something about dialing one or
dialing two.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
So um correct me if I'm wrong, but it's uh you call
998 and if you push option one,you'll get the veterans crisis
line.
Uh if you push option two,you'll you'll come to to us um
the suicide and crisis line.
And so what we're finding isthat we have veterans uh who are
not dialing one to go to theveteran crisis line, but they're
(03:28):
dialing two to come to the umjust the more the general um
suicide and crisis hotline.
And so we really want to um digdown into that and figure out
why.
Um, but more than the why is thehow.
How do we um how do we supportthose uh veterans that are
coming to us uh and help them uhget the help.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Why do you think they're um dialing two instead
of one?
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Does that yeah, I um I think there's a lot of stigma
uh behind uh veterans callingthe the VA or the veterans line,
and um whether it's anecdotallynot getting the help or friends
not getting the help they needor something like that is the
(04:17):
the and there's a lot of shameas well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
So like the veteran system maybe not be working as
well as it ought to be, isbasically what you're saying.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
At a bad um experience, experience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Or didn't get the help or care that they needed.
Exactly.
Okay, and that's why you're umworking along with the Arkansas
crisis line to develop a programthat can help veterans
specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
Yes, and that's why I brought you on the show today,
because I think it's reallyimportant and you have lived
experience of dealing with that,um, or maybe you not personally,
um, but being in the fieldyourself, you know, you have
seen and probably have lost, youknow, other fellow fellow
soldiers.
Um what is one thing that youthink that someone like me or uh
(05:05):
family members could do tosupport uh veterans that you
know are going through a hardtime but may not want to talk
about it?
Like what would be a way to showsupport to them uh without
crossing a line, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
Yeah, I I think um I my personal experience has been
a lot of a lot of the veteransthat I've worked with have had
um it's like the I come back toloneliness and isolation.
It's that feeling of and youknow, where it's it's not just
(05:38):
veterans, it's like all of usnow in the digital age where um
we're so connected yet we feelso isolated.
And and it is it is a um aversion of that where uh these
um friends or relatives that youknow you'll see them out um in
public um having a good time andbut deep down inside they feel
(06:02):
absolutely alone, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Yeah, uh and so it's really like or are struggling
with PTSD, things like that.
Um so is there a program umwithin the veteran community
that supports PTSD or one thatyou could list off that could um
someone that's like wanting helpwith PTSD could um reach out?
Would that just be through thecrisis line?
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Yeah, through the crisis line to help.
Um the I guess the advantage ofcall like calling crisis uh line
is that the uh the callspecialists there are equipped
to find resources.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
So they'll get that person connected with the right
person for them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Correct.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
So it it's more like the So whether they dial one or
whether they dial two, they'regoing the Argonze Crisis Line is
going to find the right resourcefor that individual.
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Just stay on the line until they get back to you,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
And um, and it's good to kind oftalk it through with um the call
specialist as well.
And and a good call specialistwill take the time to find where
you are, what what are theclosest resources, what
resources have um goodreputations as well.
So it's not just they're notjust trying to get you off the
(07:21):
phone.
It's it's about finding the bestuh resource and support for you
and your situation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Okay, awesome.
Um, and then a little bit moreabout the program.
Really curious about this.
Like, so what kind of programare you feeling like are you
going to design?
Is it going to be like anintensive program that could be
online or in person?
Or what what is your um goal forthat?
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
So our goal really is to figure out how we can
support and collaborate thegreat work that's already
happening in the in the veteran.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Okay, so with other nonprofits already that are in
that sector.
So like just combining and justbecoming a big powerhouse and
then creating something out ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Yeah, so so um the Arkansas Crisis Center, we our
um our bread and butter is isthe the core line, is the crisis
line.
So it's that it's that personthat at three o'clock in the
morning is at their absolutelowest and they don't know who
to reach out to.
Yeah.
They just call 988.
(08:24):
And um so that's our that's ourbread and butter.
Um, and what we like to say,that's kind of like the that's
at the edge of the waterfall,that aspect.
So it's like it's the last stopthat people feel.
Uh but we wanna we wanna moveupstream from that for true
prevention, true prevention,yes, exactly right.
(08:45):
So we want to work with otherorganizations that they may have
suicide prevention as a pillarof organization, but it's just
one pillar.
And so, how do we come andsupport that pillar for them?
Yes, um, and provide ourexpertise with suicide
prevention trainings, um,education and awareness um
whilst they're promoting umtheir wellness and community
(09:08):
helping veterans find theirpurpose and meaning once they uh
once they fold up that uniform.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
I think that is such a great idea.
And uh I was telling youearlier, you know, one of the
reasons why I opened up, well,the biggest reason why I opened
up just in time was because Iwanted to create a program that
harnesses neuroplasticity tofight suicide.
I had gone to Germany and I didthis um intensive and
progressive workshop with Dr.
Joe Dispenza, and it's nothingto do with suicide, it's just
(09:35):
more like self-help stuff.
But it comes back to likereprogramming the brain, how you
think is how you feel.
And if you're feeling a certainway, it's because you're
thinking a certain way.
And it completely changed mylife.
And, you know, I don't strugglewith suicide ideation.
It's not something I I used tothink about it every single day.
And now I'm finally living alife where I feel empowered.
Uh, you know, I'm not justcoping with my life.
(09:58):
And for me, I was like, I didn'twant like coping mechanisms were
great and everything.
But and and I don't, you know, Idon't know, correct, please
correct me if I'm wrong, butmaybe, you know, veterans,
they've been through so much, somuch training, this and that.
And it's like I feel like maybethey just want relief, you know.
(10:18):
And for me, um to kind of likeconnect the dots here, it was
like I was I was in so much painin my own way, and I was
struggling from PTSD.
I was a second person to find mybrother, and you know, it just
kept replaying and replaying,and I couldn't sleep.
And once you can't sleep,there's just like so many other,
you know, disorders and yourmental health start to decline.
And so, you know, on the show,we've talked about you know,
(10:40):
things that we can do as far astaking care of our body, like
cold plunging, working out,taking vitamins, eating,
sleeping, all the things thatour brain needs.
But at the end of the day, wehave to reprogram ourselves, and
that's basically what I did.
I reprogrammed my brain, but ittook a long time, and it took
this program that I just, youknow, um learned about through
(11:03):
some of my friends in Germany,and they're like, You need to
come and take this course.
And I was like, Okay.
And it he talks about being insurvival mode, right?
And I think for veterans, likeconstantly in survival mode, you
know.
Um, I don't want to talk aboutany of the horror stories from
some of my friends that havelost loved ones, but when I hear
(11:25):
some of the things that veteranshave gone through and have seen,
that doesn't put you in a placeof peace.
It it keeps your brain insurvival.
So I'm wondering if there'ssomething that we could do to
collaborate also with everybodyelse to help create a program,
um, like a little part of justin time um with the veterans.
(11:46):
So yes, because like that is ourmain goal.
And sometimes, like, you know,we're just we're a small
nonprofit, but we partnered withAFSP, and that has been just
amazing education.
And and um I think it's helpedso many people.
And for me, it's not like thatjust in time needs to do
everything.
It's it's like you said, it'scollaborating with all these
(12:07):
other forces that already haveyou know put all this effort and
energy into building it and thenbuilding from there.
And I think that's where youknow true change can come from.
So I am so excited to have metyou and um brought you on the
show.
Um, and you've only been inArkansas for a month, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
So as an Australian, wait, you were in Washington, DC
before, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Washington State.
Or Washington State, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Um, so that what you mentioned, like that's freezing
cold.
So Arkansas is not as cold, butdoes it get cold in Australia at
all?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Not where I grew up, um in Perth.
It was just it's a warm climate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Like all year round, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Pretty much.
Like the winters are are like Islike California?
Yeah, I think someone told melike San Diego is is similar to
Perth.
I don't know if that's true, butit's 114 in the summer and like
Oh wow, like the winters arelike 55.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
I think Australia's a might be a little hotter.
Okay, yeah, yeah, a littlewarmer.
Um, did you surf or anything?
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Uh I grew up bodyboarding.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
And never got the ha uh hang of stand-up.
Like I just I my balance, Idon't know what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
But all right.
Well, my husband and I we have aboat.
We're gonna invite you to BeaverLake and we're gonna teach you
how to wake surf.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Dude, it's so someone told me about that and
said, Oh, it's just so surfing.
Yeah, that'd be that'd beawesome.
SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
I mean, your wife and me will both be pregnant.
Uh-huh.
Well, no, I next summer we'llalready have the baby.
So it'll it'll be great.
That'll be awesome.
Yeah.
Exactly.
We'll let the guys drive and uhmy husband can teach you, so
that will be really cool.
We'll have to do that.
Yeah, awesome.
Well, welcome to Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Um, thank you so much for all the work that you
do.
I'm really excited.
Um, is there anything else thatyou want to talk about today
that you can think of that you'dlike to share with everyone?
Or a piece of information umlike or something personal that
maybe helped you when you maybehad struggles with mental health
(14:01):
or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Yeah, I I think the like the notion of like, oh,
what I've gone through, likepeople have gone through worse.
And if we talk about um I waspart of a mass casualty team um
at Fairchild F war space and wehad um I can't remember the
exact term.
It was uh it was a the fortriaging um the folks and it was
(14:27):
it was medical, but then we asthe religious support team um
would come in and helpspiritually triage, which is
like those that those that aremost closest to uh to death, we
look after them first.
Whereas medically, you lookafter those who survive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:43):
So spiritual triage?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah, spiritual triage.
So it's kind of spendingspending that time with with
members that um as closer closerto death.
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
The end, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
And so um, but when we do that, yeah, it's I know.
Um and it it is kind of a a bitof a um mindfucker, as it were.
Yeah.
Um, because you're like, well,medically you want it those that
are most likely to survive, butspiritually, you're like, okay,
these are the these are right atthe end, you want to be with
them in that time because thatthat is uh for a lot of people
(15:15):
very tough time.
Um but like when we're whenyou're triaging, they talk about
uh possi a possible it used tobe a traumatic event, and that's
what it was.
And that could be a you know aplane crash or something like
that, and then more recentlyit's been redefined as a
possible traumatic event becausewhat someone goes through, two
(15:36):
people can go through the samething and have a different
experience, differentexperience.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
So, like your crisis is your crisis, um it's not
always the truth of exactly whathappened, exactly, but it's a
different experience because thebrain can just
decompartmentalize and yeah, andand then you also remember
incorrectly too.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
And so the real piece of encouragement that I
have um that I share witheveryone is just talk.
Like don't don't go, well, Iknow I know my mate went through
so much worse.
Um but if you're having feelingsthat you're having, talk about
it.
unknown (16:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Um, don't just isolate yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
So comparison is something that you saw a lot of
guys do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, and there's a quote that I go by too.
It's comparison is the thief ofjoy, too, you know.
Um so don't make yourself small,even if somebody else went
through something harder, stillvalidate your feelings, is what
I'm hearing you say.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And and that's huge.
Find that help, that um theresources are there.
Um just just look for them.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Wow.
Spiritual triage, that is justlike mind-blowing.
Like I'm just like imagining youon the field going through that.
I mean, how was that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
Um so for me, um, like I never really was involved
in, you know, thankfully neverinvolved in real-world um mass
casualties.
But going through the trainingfor it was intensely training.
Yeah, is definitely um beingable to to understand that that
(17:09):
uh mindset of you know, withspiritual fitness, it's about
yeah, purpose and meaning.
Yeah, it's like why why why arewe on this earth?
Um, we're not like you saidbefore, like we're we're not a
bunch of islands, like all ofthese little nonprofits, we're
all one big island, yeah.
Um pursuing one big meaning.
(17:30):
And so it's that what is yourpurpose?
What is your meaning?
And sometimes we go through bigthings that help us find it, and
other times it's just intrinsic,and we're like, okay, and so
yeah, it's helping people findthat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:44):
I can see why they brought you on the team now.
Um, I think like in life ingeneral, I mean, even people
that aren't struggling,sometimes they just feel lost in
general because they're not tiedto their purpose, or you know
what is the meaning for themthere, you know.
So I think that's I think that'shuge.
And I think when people do,especially for someone that is,
(18:07):
you know, struggling when theydo find that and tie themselves
to that.
Um that does when you have morepurpose, it does give you more
um drive and will to want tolive, you know.
Um I was gonna ask you one morequestion.
Oh, yes, what was it that madeyou get into this um career
(18:28):
field?
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Um so I guess like serendipity is what actually got
me into the career field.
Uh so I'm I'm old, I was an oldrecruit into the Air Force.
So my wife she joined, then Imet her.
Um, I had a previous career inrunning coffee shops and coffee
roasting.
Uh that was kind of my passion,that was my passion.
(18:50):
Uh, and then I met my wife, andI was like, I can't move coffee
shops when we move bases.
So I was like, I um let that go.
And then my one of my bestmates, uh, he was uh EOD, which
is like the bomb disposal in theAir Force.
So yeah, he was a total badass.
Uh I'd train with him, we'd workout together, and so I told him,
(19:13):
Hey, I want to join the AirForce.
I'm 35, and um he's like, Well,um, go EOD.
And I'm like, no, I'm not crazy.
Like, I can't just like where'sthat bomb?
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Like, I'm not you're the crazy one.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
Um, and so he introduced me to uh, but I
wanted to go special warfarebecause yeah, I'm just one of
those dudes that like I have todo the hardest thing I can find.
So um he told me about SEAR,which is the survival uh
instructor uh training uh forthe Air Force, and so I joined
um Seer to begin with in the AirForce, and then my wife uh she's
(19:50):
short notice deployed.
And so I was in in the middle oftraining, it's pretty intense
training.
Um it's like you know, 12, 14hour days.
And then you get homework to do,and so it's intense.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
I I know a guy actually um in California, it
was in San Diego, um that had agovernment job, and he helped
basically train how to um how doyou say it disemble the like so
the bomb doesn't go off?
Uh-yeah, what is it called?
Bomb disposal or bomb disposal,yeah.
Yeah, and disarm, yes, disarm abomb, and like training for you
(20:24):
know the Air Force and every andlike all the Marine Corps,
everyone and uh that that can bereally intense too, yeah, um,
and situations and they actuallysent him over, he was in the
army, they sent him over, Ithink it was Afghanistan, and
some of the things that he cameback and had to deal with.
And my heart goes out to thisperson too.
(20:44):
Um, because I've seen himstruggle, you know, up and down
with alcoholism and just tryingto like numb that pain.
And he's gone to um the veteranscommunity and is is try to get
help.
And you know, I just keeptelling him, like, don't give
up, like keep trying.
Um, because I know after goingthrough something like that, it
(21:05):
it's it's really, really hard.
Yeah.
So I have a lot of compassionfor him.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Hopefully, it clicks one day.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
I'm hoping.
Actually, after this podcast,I'm gonna call him and check on
him because I haven't checked onhim in a minute.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
But be a good friend.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
He's such a beautiful soul, too, you know.
But sometimes life just can getyou really can get you down, you
know?
And but that's why we're here.
We're just in time to savealive, and we've got the crisis
hotline.
So call 988 if you'restruggling.
And um, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
No worries, we appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
It's glad to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
And I'm holding you to the surfing session next
year.
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I'm gonna face plant, I know it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
That's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Awesome.
Oh my gosh, that was cool.
That is awesome.
If you're struggling, rememberhow you think is how you feel.
If your feelings feel heavy,start by shifting the thought.
You're not stuck, your brain canchange, so can your story.
I'm Jessica G.
This is the Justin Time podcast,and I'll see you next time.
Until then, keep going.
Never give up.
(22:04):
And remember, the world isbetter with you in it, whether
you believe it or not.
To help reach others, pleaseshare this with your friends,
family, and don't forget tolike, subscribe, and donate.
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