July 23, 2025 • 45 mins
Resilient Stories: Madeline Edwards' Journey of Grief, Strength, and Music
The Just Keep Talking podcast with Guest Madeline Edwards
Please support Just Keep Talking here!
https://linktr.ee/brotherloverocks
In this deeply personal and authentic episode, Madeline Edwards steps back into the spotlight, not just as an artist, but as a survivor and storyteller. Host Brother Love explores Madeline's journey through the pain of losing her brother Jonah to suicide, her connection with fans who share similar experiences, and the resilience that has defined her path in the music industry. With a strong Texas spirit, Madeline proves that intuition and inner strength can triumph over adversity. Tune in for an insightful and heartfelt conversation about mental health, loss, and the power of storytelling.
#mentalhealthpodcast #musicjournalism #musicianlife #yourstorymatters #beseen #beheard #belong #madelineedwards #fruit #countrymusic #countrysinger #suicideprevention #988 #brotherlove #justkeeptalking
00:00 Introduction: The Power of Storytelling
00:04 Edwards' Return to the Spotlight
00:13 A Survivor's Journey
00:18 Tragic Loss and Loneliness
00:38 Connecting Through Shared Pain
00:47 Proving the Doubters Wrong
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brother Love (00:00):
Telling our stories is the connective tissue of the
collective human experience.
The Just Keep Talking podcast delvesinto the lives and stories of artists.
What is the impact ofmental health on creativity?
What does it mean to bea creative individual?
Someone who feels deeply, experiencesjoy and pain, intensely and
navigates the challenges of lifethrough the creative process.
(00:21):
With each story shared, we explorethe authentic experience of our
basic need to be seen, to be heard
and to belong.
We are really not so differentfrom one another, nor are we alone.
Together we can inspire, encourage, andenlighten each other to find the true joy
and fulfillment that is within ourselves.
When we Just Keep Talking, wecreate the space for Gratitude.
(00:44):
Self-acceptance andGrace in everyday life.
In a world filled with divisiveness,
fostering inclusivity and connection isa powerful way to make a positive impact.
The Just Keep Talking podcast with me,Brother Love, because Your Story Matters.
Madeline Edwards (01:03):
Two story.
She standing in the kitchen if you.
Larry (02:12):
Welcome to the Just Keep Talking podcast with
me, Brother Love, becauseYour Story Matters.
The following content maycontain sensitive material about
suicide and suicidal ideation.
If you or someone you know arestruggling with suicidal thoughts,
emotional distress, substanceabuse problems, or just needs to
talk, please know that you are not.
(02:34):
Alone and that help is available.
You can contact the Suicide and CrisisLifeline by calling or texting 9
8 8 or chat at 9 8 8 lifeline.org.
These services are free,they are confidential, and
they are available 24 7 365.
Thank you for tuning into thisshow, the Just Keep Talking podcast.
(02:54):
I'm honored to be here with Madeline.
Edwards.
Hello, Madeline Edwards.
Madeline Edwards (02:59):
Hi Larry.
Larry (03:00):
My goodness.
Let me get the Googlecommercial out of the way.
Here it is.
Madeline Edwards is a genre definingsinger songwriter whose music
seamlessly blends country, jazz,soul, and rock influences into a
sound that is uniquely her own.
With a voice that carriesboth power and vulnerability.
She has captivated audiences withher authenticity, storytelling,
(03:23):
and rich emotive delivery.
Now, after a two and a half yearhiatus from releasing music.
Edwards returns with her muchanticipated sophomore album.
A record that comes from the depthsof loss, resilience, and rediscovery.
In that time, she endured theheartbreaking loss of her beloved
brother being dropped from a majorlabel and the long, arduous fight
(03:46):
to reclaim her voice and artistry.
Through it all, she, you, MadelineEdwards, emerged stronger, crafting
a body of work that reflects notjust her pain but her triumph.
With a renewed spirit and undeniablepresence, Edwards is ready to
step back into the spotlight.
Not just as an artist, but as asurvivor, a storyteller, and a force
(04:06):
to be reckoned with in modern music.
Thank you for having me in your home.
Madeline Edwards (04:11):
Thanks for having me.
On your show.
on your home.
Larry (04:13):
Yeah.
I've been really looking forward tospeaking with you for a long time.
We've known each, we've knowneach other for a few years now.
Many years, yeah.
Madeline Edwards (04:20):
Almost five years now.
Yeah.
you are technically the firstshow that I had in Nashville.
' cause y'all played Them Vibes.
played, Yeah.
at the Basement East.
Larry (04:29):
Juneteenth
show, right?
Madeline Edwards (04:30):
It might've been actually.
I remember we did colorsby the black Pumas.
Yeah.
Larry (04:34):
Them Vibes, we really, love to put on shows that have meaning.
Not a Them Vibes show justto be, hello, here we are.
And we really had the opportunityto have new friends and old friends.
And you were the newfriend that Alex Haddad.
Alex Rahal, my partner and Them Vibes.
He said, man, Madeline Edwards,she's gotta be on this show.
You blew the whole room away.
You did Colors and brought everythingthat I thought you would be, you were in,
(04:58):
in your first smile and hello and hug.
And you sang Colors.
You're a star.
Madeline Edwards (05:03):
Thank you.
Larry (05:04):
So you've been in Nashville since what?
2021.
Yeah.
Madeline Edwards (05:06):
Yeah.
21,
it's been, four and a half years now.
Larry (05:09):
Wow.
So you were born inCalifornia, raised in Houston?
Mm-hmm.
You are the oldest of five.
Yeah.
I'm looking at you.
I'm not even looking at my notes, like I,
Madeline Edwards (05:17):
I, I know you're doing.
really good.
Larry (05:18):
You played piano as a kid, learned how to play the
drums at University of Houston?
Madeline Edwards (05:23):
I was studying advertising at the University of Houston,
and just learning drums along the way.
'cause I was still gigging in steakhouses,Jazz clubs, Wine bars the whole bit.
I would load my shit aroundand, do the gigging life.
Larry (05:36):
What made you come to Nashville?
What was the catalyst that you're like,I could do this, I should do this.
And you were married, Jim is your husband?
Yes.
You were married
already?
Madeline Edwards (05:43):
Mm-hmm.
I was.
Larry (05:44):
Living
in Houston
Madeline Edwards (05:45):
So we were long distance.
I was in Houston.
He was in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Before we got married we were tryingto decide, we were long distance,
our whole relationship until wegot married, we didn't even live in
the same city until we got married.
Which is against all my better advicethat I've given to my siblings or friends.
I'm like, nope, you shoulddate for eight years.
You should be engaged for five.
You know, I'm just like, get to knowevery person in every season of their
(06:08):
life before you, I was a skeptic of
marriage.
Larry (06:10):
Well, how did you meet?
Madeline Edwards (06:11):
We met online.
I was doing background vocalsfor a rapper named Tobe Nwigwe.
A Houston rapper, and he wenton NPR Tiny Desk Jim's roommate
was, for a lack of better words,interested and slid in the DMs first.
Right.
And was Like, love your music, love yourheart for the Lord would love to keep
talking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(06:32):
And so we talked for about three monthsand it didn't really go anywhere.
But I got to know Jim rightthrough getting to know this guy.
And me and Jim kind of were penpals for a year and just hit it off.
and, You know, starteddating shortly after that,
Larry (06:47):
So you both moved here separately.
What was it like support wise withyour family, you're the oldest of five.
So what was it like?
It must have been really scary.
Madeline Edwards (06:55):
It was scary.
I hated leaving my family.
All my family's still back in Texas.
And Jim has been born and raised inHattiesburg and did not live anywhere his
entire life until we moved to Nashville.
There were a few key pieces.
I was working with a guy at thetime named Josh Moore, who produced
Hold My Horses and the Road, he wasfriends with Ian Fitchuk, who's done
(07:17):
the Golden Hour record with Casey.
All of Casey's albums.
The new Leon Bridges record thatjust came out and Josh was the
one that had these random ties topeople that I knew in Nashville.
And so I was like, you know what?
Maybe I just needed.
need to
take a leap and just makenew friends out there.
I didn't know a wholelot of people, honestly.
We didn't really know anybody.
Yeah.
Amara our mutual friend, Amara Hall.
(07:39):
Who is a brilliant creativeand one of the most incredibly
beautiful and unique humans I've ever met.
That was our firstfriend ever in Nashville.
Larry (07:48):
That's
a good one.
Madeline Edwards (07:49):
That's
A good first one to have
Man.
Larry (07:51):
You hit the jackpot.
Madeline Edwards (07:51):
That's a good first friend.
to have.
But yeah, the support wasstrong when we came out here.
I think a lot of people, includingboth of our families, knew, to
try to get to the next level.
You kind of always have to do a littlebit of a trust fall even with yourself.
Larry (08:03):
Yeah You know?
So you moved to Nashville.
how long were you hereuntil you got signed?
Madeline Edwards (08:06):
It wasn't long.
Larry (08:07):
How did that happen?
Madeline Edwards (08:07):
Let's see, a year in, I had gotten asked by Amanda
Shires, who's part of the, High Women.
Yeah.
To sing on a Lady Gaga project.
A few months after that, Igot asked to go on the CMAs.
A few months after that got askedto go on the road with Stapleton.
So it was a lot of ping
ponging.
Yeah.
Like There's a lot of things gettingthrown my way and I hadn't had management
or any label or anything up to thatpoint, but things were speeding up
(08:31):
so fast that you think like, oh,I have to quickly assemble a team
because I can't manage all this on
my
own.
Right.
Or at least I didn't have the toolkitin my belt to manage that on my own.
I have the toolkit nowto manage that on my own.
Would I, love some help, obviously, butit's always better to have autonomy over
your work and your business than to handit off to somebody that you don't know
(08:55):
super well, I cannot believe I did that.
We'll go into that
later.
Larry (08:58):
But felt good right at first?
Madeline Edwards (09:00):
I think it felt necessary at
first.
Larry (09:02):
Okay,
Madeline Edwards (09:02):
It's a weird song.
and dance.
Larry (09:04):
It's a weird song and dance and at the time, I mean, look, you
were signed to a major frickinglabel, so it's all gonna be good.
It's all gonna work out.
Once this happens, it's life stuff, right?
Life is gonna be, it'll beperfect when that happens.
My record will come out.
I mean, so you did have a recordcome out on the label, right?
Madeline Edwards (09:21):
I did.
Larry (09:22):
They put the record
out.
Madeline Edwards (09:23):
That record was already done.
Larry (09:25):
Crashlanded in
2022.
Madeline Edwards (09:27):
It was done.
So I owned the Masters to it, luckily.
Larry (09:30):
Good for you.
Madeline Edwards (09:31):
They licensed it, but I did put it out under Warner.
Yes.
Larry (09:34):
I read all these things like your genre bending and your jazz and your rock.
I love the fact that the Country Musicworld took you and called you their own.
You became more of aCountry Star than anything.
You were like a darlingof the Country music
world.
Madeline Edwards (09:47):
I don't know how that
happened.
happened Right.
Larry (09:49):
Did you expect that all coming
to Nashville?
Madeline Edwards (09:51):
No.
Larry (09:52):
So how long were you on the label?
How long did you feel
the love?
I know it's a long time agonow, and you're in new season.
Madeline Edwards (09:56):
I got dropped literally this time last year.
Larry (10:00):
Oh,
Madeline Edwards (10:00):
Mm-hmm.
It hasn't been that long.
I mean, I was probablyon it for two years.
I
felt the love for, It's complicated.
I think there's a lot of, powerstruggle in labels right now.
I think there is notvery solid leadership.
In the midst of me tryingto find my own voice.
I think there's a lot of people evenat the top trying to also find their
(10:23):
voice because there's so much turnover.
Right now.
And there's not a whole lot ofdefinition on what leadership is and
what that's supposed to look like.
Does it look like we change the colorof what kind of artists we sign?
Like do we sign more, Black Artists?
Do we sign more Queer Artists?
Does that mean we're trying tofight for change in this way?
(10:45):
Does that mean we're competingagainst other streaming services?
There's such confusion on what thedirection is and who the real leaders
are how could I feel love from them?
They couldn't even reallyknow how to love themselves.
I'm a self-aware enough person tonotice pretty early on what was going on
inside the machine by thetime I had already signed.
(11:08):
And I kind of knew, even sixmonths in, like, I don't know
if this is gonna last very long.
And you're seeing the trend oflike, there's barely any Black
Country Artists signed now, If any?
I don't think there are.
Larry (11:20):
See, that's where I'm confused.
So you are, what do youidentify yourself as?
Madeline Edwards (11:24):
Mixed.
My mom's white, my dad's black.
Larry (11:26):
Very simple, right?
Madeline Edwards (11:27):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (11:27):
So.
I'm shocked that they let you gobecause I do feel like we're in this
crazy world where, hey, like yousaid, we gotta check some boxes here.
And you check a good box, you know you'rea female, you know you're mixed race.
Okay, great, are you sure you're not Gay?
Are you sure you're not Queer?
'cause we could check another box here.
Madeline Edwards (11:44):
I mean, I am Queer, so they could also check that box.
Can you be Queer and be marriedto a straight white man?
I don't really know, but yeah,
there's like, let's check every box.
Why not?
Larry (11:52):
Yeah,
They just called back.
They wanna
resign you.
They're like, you didn't tell us you wereQueer also and married to a white guy?
Oh my God.
We'll give you double
the the money!
Oh my gosh.
Madeline Edwards (12:01):
Holy shit.
Larry (12:02):
But that's
the way things sort of, are right now,and I'm shocked that they let you go.
Madeline Edwards (12:07):
Well, it's not the way things are anymore.
There's a lot of those programs going away
now.
Larry (12:11):
So how did you feel?
Why did you get dropped?
Why do you think you got
Madeline Edwards (12:14):
dropped?
I I think I got dropped because the labels
don't
know how to conveytheir own value anymore.
Because you're seeing a lot ofIndependent Artists or Artists
like Zach Bryan or people whoare just kind of, can you cuss on
this?
You show?
Larry (12:28):
You
can do whatever you want
Madeline Edwards (12:29):
Artists who have kind of fucked the system a little bit.
How.
Larry (12:32):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (12:32):
It's
an algorithm game for everybody,even if you own the algorithm.
And so if you have, like you were saying,putting out things every week, because
we're fighting this algorithm now, ifyou're putting out 40 song albums and
then the next year another 40 songalbum, you're in favor of the algorithm.
And So
if these
indie artists are blowing up on TikTok.
Blowing up on their socials.
(12:54):
Finding their own ways of makingmoney through Substack and Patreon and
they're doing all this without a label.
And now a label is only a bank.
I don't even like their creative teams.
I don't even know what's coming outof a label in terms of relationships
or networking other than you justgave me a lot of money, right.
To make this thing and it's moneythat I'm gonna have to pay back anyway
'cause it's going towards my recoup.
(13:15):
So, you know, you're really just a bank.
And so I think the labels are nowtrying to reestablish what they are.
And that's why you're seeinga lot of labels now making
their own streaming services.
They're in the process of making their ownthings where they control the algorithm.
And you're gonna start seeing some ofthem trying to compete with Spotify
and Apple Music and taking theirartists off of those streaming sites.
(13:38):
Because now whoever owns the product,whoever owns the art, is the one
that can control the output of it.
And so in this shift that'shappening, we've seen this
throughout time as media changes.
This is how we saw media change whenradio was introduced, and then you see
it again when television's introduced.
You see it again when theInternet's introduced.
And we're just gonna keepseeing this over and over again.
(13:59):
Especially now with AI.
It's like the wild west out here.
Yeah.
And we're seeing thatshift all over again.
you're seeing little companies breakinto tiny little conglomerates that
a big company, like a Universalor whatever, will go and buy up.
All of that.
And so as they're reestablishingwhat their role is, whether
it is a bank for artists.
Or a streaming service they're making alot of cuts, and it's not just to artists.
(14:21):
Warner as a whole.
All of their labels under them cutabout 150 artists last year, including
myself.
And they're doing massivelayoffs across the board.
And so, you're seeing thisat every single label.
I think I was just
one of the artists that wasn'tmaking them enough money.
So of course I was part of the150 artists that got dropped,
(14:42):
there was no reason to keep me
on.
And there's definitely no reason tokeep me on, even if I have a beautiful
record with all these through lines inthis beautiful story of redemption and
a really vulnerable story of grief.
I have a lot I could dive into onwhy I think this record wouldn't have
done well under a major label anyway.
Larry (14:59):
The new
one?
Madeline Edwards (15:00):
The new one.
Fruit.
Larry (15:01):
Okay, why wouldn't it have done well?
Well, first of all,
let's go back a little bit This ispart of the People Magazine article.
You say, "After the darkest seasonsof my life loss, heartbreak,
disappointment, Fruit was born.
It's proof that even insorrow, there's beauty.
Even in endings, there's new life.
This album is my heart, my healing, myreminder that our pain is never wasted.
(15:23):
God doesn't just restore, he multiplies.
If you are in a dark place, holdon, there's a harvest coming.
You can't even imagine yet."
There's a lot of faith in
there.
And there's a lot of faith andbeauty in this record Fruit.
Why would it have notworked on a major label?
Madeline Edwards (15:40):
Because it's not manufactured emotion.
It's a real story and it needs theright people behind it to make it work.
After a certain point of me trying to sella real story, I think I was realizing,
I don't even know if the people at thevery top of these labels know this.
But I think a lot of the thingsI'm watching coming out of these
labels, even if it is emotional,even if it is in touch with grief or
(16:04):
vulnerability, it feels manufactured.
I remember when I was turning insongs for this record, there was a
bit of time where, you know, when Iwas still trying to keep my deal, I
was like, well, maybe I can just keephalf the record the things I wanted.
And then give them half of what theywant to try to get them something
they can put to Country Radio.
And the things they kept sayingthat they liked were just like; I've
(16:26):
been through shit and I'm a strongTexas girl and I've been through a
lot, but I'm stronger 'cause of it.
I feel like Crashlanded was a littlebit like that, but what did you
go through that made you strong?
Let's talk about that.
You say there's a lot of faith in this.
I am a woman of faith, but that took alot of deconstruction because I grew up
in a faith-based home, mostly Baptist,mostly non-denominational Christian, I
(16:48):
had to reverse a lot of things that Iwas taught were in line with The Gospel
or the Walk of Christ here on Earth,
that was completely just not true at all.
And so it was me having to really fightfor what was the actual message of Jesus
when he came here, and it was to love.
To love the orphans and thewidows to not be homophobic.
There is so much Grace in themessage of The Gospel that I
(17:11):
think we forget all the time.
This is such a complex record
that's dealing with themes of faithand mental illness and family and
overturning generational trauma.
I don't know if any major label right nowhas the emotional intelligence to be fully
equipped to market a record this in depth.
Larry (17:30):
And yet
what sells these days,what everybody is pitching,
is Authenticity.
We throw these words around now.,
My show, when I tell somebody, Hey, Ihave a podcast called, Just Keep Talking.
Oh, that sounds cool.
What
is
it?
I talk to different artists and creatives,but I really lean into Mental Health.
Madeline Edwards (17:44):
Oh.
Mm-hmm.
Larry (17:45):
This this is so important, and I get this real shiny big smile.
We're programmed now, these are triggerwords because it triggers a response
of like, wow, that's important.
If you just say Mental Health, wow.
If you say Authentic, wow.
You are being as Authenticas you could ever be.
Which by the way, how do wedefine being more authentic?
You're being authentic and thelabel was like it's not the
(18:08):
Authenticity that we're looking
for.
Mm-hmm.
That's bananas, but that isthe world we're living in.
Madeline Edwards (18:13):
Well then they can control you though.
if you don't get deeper, if you don'tget, like what you were saying with
so many men opening up on your show.
If you can keep the masses at a certainemotional level, then they're not doing
the inner work to make themselves moreintelligent and then they can control you
(18:33):
more.
Larry (18:33):
Right.
And it keeps thenarrative in their corner.
So let's just go to the narrative.
So your brother, Jonah,
Killed himself.
Mm-hmm.
In 2023?
Madeline Edwards (18:41):
2023.
in November.
Larry (18:43):
I'm so
sorry.
Thank you.
I really am so sorry.
As somebody who suffers from mentalillness and depression and anxiety,
and it's been in my family forever.
My mother died way too young, and shesuffered for a long, long, long time.
It's something that is in my family.
And, drug abuse and mental illness.
Listening to your record Fruitwas such a journey of you just
(19:06):
telling your story, and I'm gladyou're not on that major label.
I really am.
What
was it
like
to all have it come crashingdown at the same time?
How did you not just throw everythingaway and say, fuck it, I'm out.
I mean, you kept going.
You somehow, you were still, I don't
know.
Madeline Edwards (19:22):
In motion.
Larry (19:22):
You
were still in motion.
Thank
you.
Madeline Edwards (19:24):
I don't know, like, honestly, I,
I stopped
going to therapy after Jonah passedand for a minute there, the writing
and the music was my therapy, thatwas how I was processing the grief.
But then it started forming into thishalf story that I brought into my life.
Because I was trying to be in tunewith what the universe was trying,
(19:47):
I just think I'm an instrument.
I try to just be a channel to let whatevermessage, I try to be very sensitive
to what everyone around me needs.
And I don't know if that'sjust from being the oldest kid.
I don't really know what that'sfrom, but I have learned to be
a good listener because of Jim.
Jim is an excellent
listener.
Larry (20:07):
Your husband.
Madeline Edwards (20:08):
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
And you're right, it's generosity.
So I've been listening for a really longtime to my audience and to my family and
to the people in my life who are alsocreatives and artists and feel oppressed
in a sense by the capitalistic nature ofour Country and our industry right now.
And I think a lot of thethemes I kept hearing were.
(20:28):
we have a lot of holidays andhashtags around Mental Health.
Right.
it's a checkbox kind of just like,oh, let's just sign a black artist.
'cause it makes us look good.
Oh, let's have a hashtagon Mental Health day.
'Cause
Larry (20:40):
that's right.
Madeline Edwards (20:41):
It's a trigger word, like you said, but
people
are still uncomfortable to talk about it.
It's still incredibly taboo.
Yeah.
And I just tapped into that and soI think it kept me alive, honestly.
That might have not beenright way to grieve.
Like diving headfirst that much into mywork, but also who's gonna tell me how to
grieve?
Yeah.
Larry (20:58):
Did you feel a responsibility?
Madeline Edwards (21:00):
Yeah.
Larry (21:01):
Who were you feeling responsible to?
Because like you said, you're theeldest of five, You're married.
I don't know if, for my own self,could I make it through and just
dive into anything other than,a pool of booze or something
Madeline Edwards (21:12):
I also poured into much of that too.
Larry (21:15):
Yeah.
But who did you
yeah.
a responsibility to?
You've already started laying downa groundwork, like all of a sudden.
You have a little bit of fame.
You're co-writing for your record.
You're stepping into a roomwith people hopefully you're
friendly enough with people that youcreate with, but sometimes you're not.
It's like, hey, I'm just gonnawrite a song with somebody.
And they walk in and they're like,oh, Madeline Edwards, she just
(21:35):
lost her brother, she's grieving.
And oh my goodness, like,what are we gonna write about?
There's so much pressure for you tobe strong, you're the eldest of five.
Mm-hmm.
Did you feel a sense of
like,
I gotta do this forsomebody or for something?
Madeline Edwards (21:47):
I had to do this for myself, right?
First and foremost.
And for Jonah.
His death was very swiftand it was very unnatural.
It just was really sudden and hejust was not himself at the end.
I think there was a real, not a pressure,but a responsibility, maybe like what
you said earlier, of, making sure thatthe memory that was left with him.
(22:08):
He took his life at Disneyland.
he jumped from the parking garageat Disneyland and it was, all over
the news and TikTok for a while.
Me and my family had to stayoff the internet for a little
bit, like at least a week.
You know, everything passes quickly.
The news cycles are very fast, andso didn't have to stay off very long,
(22:29):
but enough to where we didn't haveto see that and be reminded of that.
And that is not how I wantedJonah to be remembered or
even seen for the first time.
That's how people were introducedto him and that's not who he was.
Larry (22:45):
Were people cruel?
Madeline Edwards (22:46):
I don't know.
Larry (22:46):
I'm glad.
Madeline Edwards (22:47):
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I didn't read.
I will never go through any of that.
Larry (22:50):
His voicemail is on your record.
And he is so excited about you.
He's so excited about beingable to share your experience.
He loved your record Crashlanded.
And, it was just love.
It was absolute pure love.
When did he leave that voicemail inrelation to when he took his own life?
Madeline Edwards (23:10):
He left that a few months beforehand.
He had schizophrenia so itwas a lot of back and forth
of
hearing from him, then nothearing from him for weeks.
And then you get a call from acompletely different number, and
then you get a call from jail.
It's so chaotic.
It's so volatile for everyone involvedand he was suffering so, so much.
(23:30):
But he would get theselittle bouts of clarity.
Larry (23:33):
Hmm.
Madeline Edwards (23:33):
And he sent that in a bout of clarity.
I think he was driving back fromCalifornia or something to Houston.
he was just listening to musicand listened to my record.
And he would listen toit when he felt low.
At his lowest.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Larry (23:50):
Do you feel guilt?
Madeline Edwards (23:51):
Yes.
Every day.
Mm-hmm.
Why?
Larry (23:54):
Why?
Madeline Edwards (23:55):
I always just feel like I didn't do
enough or tell him enough that,
and I,
know up here that's not true.
I'm still working on my heart.
I know in my head that it, youknow, there's a battle between the
heart and the head with, processingthese kinds of things after death.
'Cause suicide is very confusingfor everybody involved.
and I think that all my siblings and mymom probably feel little bits of guilt.
(24:17):
I wish I would've let him knowmore how much of a star he was.
And that voicemail that he sent me, Iremember little conversations where I
would tell him those same kinds of things,but you know, you always wish, like, I
just wish I told him that like 20% more.
Yeah.
You know?
Right.
Just so he like, without a doubt knew,but you can't take on that kind of blame.
(24:41):
It's
such a mind fuck mental illness.
Like it deteriorates your brain andby the end of it he wasn't even saying
cohesive sentences, you know what I mean?
I can't feel guilty about that.
That wasn't my fault.
It's a disease just likecancer is just like, Crohn's
is just like everything else.
It takes your body and it destroys
it.
Larry (25:01):
Yeah.
a quote this is you, " like a lot ofpeople with mental illness, he was the
joy in the room, even though he wasthe one hurting the most in the room.
It's crazy.
He was just wildlycreative with no limits.
There's not enough peoplelike that in this world."
That was from People Magazinearticle, Rachel DeSantis.
When I read that, it really hit home.
I'm the class clown.
I'm the funniest guy.
(25:21):
I am the ebullient one forever.
And I suffer.
And I suffer and I sufferand I'm in so much pain.
And I read that and I thought, wow,it's so hard sometimes to be outwardly
emotional and to share these things.
And it really can be such a lonely
place.
It really is such afucking lonely space to be
(25:43):
in.
And I'm so sorry 'cause Jonah wassuffering a lot and there's so
many people that suffer a lot andthere's men that don't know how to
speak and don't know how to emote.
Um, Did you feel like needed to, havea responsibility to write something?
Did you feel like as an artist, thatyou had to be a suffering artist?
' Cause here you are suffering.
And you know the pain firsthand andthere's that suffering starving artist
(26:05):
type of mentality where true art is notart unless it comes from a lot of pain.
And that's what I thinka lot of people do.
The other side of it, you could have justbeen like, I'm going to be a strong woman.
And I'm going to show the world that,I can go on and yeah, here's some party
songs, here's some good time stuff,and I'll kind of keep it all separated.
(26:26):
You don't seem to be the type of personthat can separate any of this stuff.
Madeline Edwards (26:30):
I live pretty in real time.
Yeah, for sure.
I
don't really like thesuffering artist mentality.
I don't think I'm like that.
And I don't necessarily likepeople like that either, because
I think there is an optimism.
You can be optimistically pessimistic, ora realist, maybe an optimistic realist.
And I think I'm probably more sothat, I'm really grateful for this
(26:50):
place in my life that I am right now.
And
even with
all of this death and darkness around me.
I think since I was a kid, have
also been battling depressionand anxiety for some reason,
I have to find purpose in it.
I have to find the hope in it.
Otherwise it takes me
down
to places I don't know if I wouldcome back from so I have to fight.
(27:11):
I have to fight for it.
If that makes any sense.
I can't, indulge in the sufferingartist's mentality, 'cause I already
know where that would take me.
If you have a history of this already,then I feel like at least for me,
I have to be really careful inhow I safeguard, thought processes
or things like that, ifthat makes any sense.
Larry (27:29):
Yeah,
that was my next question haveyou kept something just for
you within all this stuff?
Because, you're very open andobviously, like I said, you
went into rooms with co-writers.
You had a lot of great writers on yourrecord that went through the journey
with you and, and help create with
you.
But
a lot of people will say, I'll give thismuch and then I'll keep some for myself.
does that make
sense?
Madeline Edwards (27:48):
I am learning how to keep more things for
myself now, at the beginning whenyou're, at the start of grieving.
And I have gone through many grievingprocesses, but not a death this close.
When you're starting out grieving,you're just an open wound everywhere.
I am sure I said and did crazy thingsthat it's just like, oh, maybe that
wasn't necessarily an appropriate thingto say in a room of writers that you
(28:13):
just met for the first time Nashvillehas a lot of really good humans.
I know Nashville gets a lot of shit,but there's a lot of really good people
that keep a very open, vulnerable spaceand grace to mess up and maybe say
something weird or do something weird,or I'm in a weird season of my life.
There's a lot of people in Nashvillethat just took their own lives.
So maybe we're all kindof affected by this.
(28:34):
So let me share a littlebit about myself too.
And if you open that door, itgives people the invite to also
be vulnerable with themselves.
So it's a healthy process.
But now I'm learning if thatanswers your question at all.
I'm learning in thiscurrent state now that I'm
a little bit further into thegrieving process of how to
keep more things for myself.
Yeah.
Larry (28:53):
Good, for you.
So what did you shed, what did you learn?
How are you different now?
I mean, the obvious is the obvious.
You lost a lot of loss, a lot of grieving,but I listened to some of your, previous
record Crashlanded, and I heard some ofthe things that you were talking about.
I heard the ideas that the label loves.
Mm-hmm.
And you were powerful and you were strong,and you were fun, and you were serious.
(29:16):
You were checking boxes.
I wouldn't have said it to you.
I think it would've been an insultif we were just talking about
congratulations on Crashlanded.
It's a great record andthere's great songs on it,
but I can hear the difference.
Because you've shed some things.
You've learned some things, and youare in a different season right now.
And good for you.
Thank you.
Because A Crashlanded is great.
(29:37):
Fruit is B.
It's great too.
It's a different great
Mm-hmm.
But there's a different Madeleine Edwards,and I know that this could be an obvious
thing, but I'm trying to be a littlebit more nuanced or a little deeper.
What did you shed like?
What did you learn?
How are you
different?
Madeline Edwards (29:51):
What did I shed?
I
shed a lot of self-doubt.
I'm gonna try to say this asbest as I can, but I think I've
seen this with my siblings.
I even saw this with Jonah.
Larry (30:02):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (30:03):
I think because of what we've gone through,
No one's stories are unique.
There's a lot of people thathave been through abuse.
There's a lot of people thathave been through mental illness.
The nuances of how people havemaybe navigated that are different,
but for the most part, we'reall connected through stories.
This answer is like forming in front ofmy eyes before I even thought, I shed
self-doubt and also learned how to notinvolve the story so much around me.
(30:29):
There was
a lot of self-doubt in terms of mebalancing who I wanted to be, but also
what I needed to give the label inorder to keep my job, because it was
more than just losing a label deal.
That's money, you know?
We were really not making a whole lot ofmoney when we first moved to Nashville.
We had to sell everything.
We were, pulling ourselvesup by our bootstraps.
(30:51):
The self-doubt I was experiencingwas me not having enough confidence
in my own experience and how thatties into other people's stories.
And also knowing and watching trendsor cultural identity I'm noticing mass
groups of people, really resonatingwith what I'm saying, whether it's at
this show or with this one random post.
(31:11):
I need to trust my gut that I actuallyknow better than this label head
that's making way more money than I am.
This little girl mindset of like, I'msmall and I don't make as much and I
haven't been doing this as long, soI don't know what I'm talking about.
When it's like, no, actually I've beenstudying this for a very long time.
Not only through my own humanexperience, but also from just
(31:33):
being an artist out in the world andactually being the one out on the road.
These Label heads aren't out on the road.
I'm the one on the road Seeing how.
these audiences
Are affected by the words.
And so I learned how to shed that selfdoubt and lean on my own instinct.
There's no better A&Rthan your own intuition.
Ever.
But then at the same time, I was learning.
The advice the label's giving me is,put the camera in front of your face
(31:56):
and lip sync your own song over and overand over again until it works on TikTok,
until you become recognizable on TikTok.
And the self-indulgence of that
I just couldn't resonate with it at all.
And so I was like, well, Idon't wanna make this about me.
This isn't, yeah, it is my story, but mystory is just like that person's story.
And I connected to this fan over herebecause their brother also died the same
(32:18):
month my brother died of suicide as well.
Like this isn't just my story anymore.
And so once I flipped the script andfocused my socials on like, sure, I'll
post a random selfie of me when Chelseadid my glam, but also like, we're gonna do
prayer nights every Monday, or we're gonnatie in, how did this grief experience
(32:40):
affect how you see this part of the world?
And so I started using my outreachmore as a Community Project, of like,
how are we all connected by grief?
And so once I was able to stop making itthe Madeline show all the time and balance
this massive confidence from sheddingthe self-doubt and also learning how to
just pour back into others, it reallychanged my perspective on everything.
Larry (33:02):
That's amazing.
And as an artist, that'sreally hard to do.
The fact that you didn't utilize itto your advantage, your pain, right?
Your brother dies andyou're still on the label.
They dropped you, what?
Six months after?
So within that time, you'rejust trying to figure it out.
I can only imagine artists that wouldjust be like, how could you drop me?
Look at the pain I'm going
through.
How could you do this to
(33:22):
me?
Madeline Edwards (33:23):
I mean, yeah.
Larry (33:24):
How could you do this to me?
I'm so.
grateful that you
are
who you
are,
that you are able to really bear the
Fruit
in your new record of somethingthat is so personal and so
real, and that it is Communal.
Community is where we canreally find solace and
growth and what you'redoing is so admirable.
(33:48):
I've been wanting to talkto you for a long time.
We've spent a little time together andwe've spent time on stage just recently,
a few months ago we did Roscolusa.
Madeline Edwards (33:55):
What great time,
Larry (33:56):
The festival down in Florida, Kim Page's festival, and we sang
together and there was so much joy.
And you are so free.
You're so giving.
Do you think you would be this freeand this giving if you were still
on the label and sort of doing the
dance?
Madeline Edwards (34:11):
No.
Larry (34:11):
Did you lose your voice at all in any of
this?
Madeline Edwards (34:13):
No.
I lost my voice when I was on it.
Right.
If anything, I've gained it back tenfold
after being dropped, for sure.
Larry (34:21):
Was there a moment where you just were like completely in the
pit and then you found your voice?
Mm-hmm.
What was that like?
There had to be something thatyou're like, oh yeah, it's
me.
Yeah.
Oh, hey, I know
you.
Madeline Edwards (34:32):
Yes.
Well, okay.
A lot of people wouldn't guess
this about me, but I'm, an Eight onthe Enneagram, which is the Challenger.
And unfortunately the,two, the, the Enneagram.
Personality test.
I'm an Aries also, I'm super fiery.
I'm very, confrontive and thetwo classic examples they give
of an Eight on the Enneagram isunfortunately Hitler and Trump.
(34:56):
If an Eight is at their absolute,not healthiest, they can,
very easily manipulate people,if not mass groups of people.
They're very influential.
And they use their powerfor good or for worse.
I am in a phase now whereI'm a healthier Eight.
Because I've learned how to processmy emotions correctly, hopefully.
(35:16):
But there's a lot of anger in that andit usually stems from childhood trauma.
I'm a very angry person.
I'm very angry for justice.
I'm Very, very angry for justice.
And I think what actually maybe gotme out of the hole a little bit was
a little bit of what you were sayingearlier, how could they do this to me?
How could they do this to Jonah?
How could they do this to my family?
(35:37):
And so it was maybe an unhealthyplace of like, well, I'll show them.
Right.
and that's not necessarily healthy,but I'm grateful for it now because
my anger, I've always lookedat it in a very, negative way.
Larry (35:49):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (35:49):
And
now I think I'm learning to lookat it more positively of like.
No, you were just angry for justiceand you just wanted to show the
world that the truth can actuallystill penetrate through the noise.
Even if there are greater powers that bethat are trying to squash that down and
say, no, your voice has to stay down here.
And so that anger got me out of the pitand then I learned how to maybe manage
(36:11):
it a little bit healthier and put ittowards, healthier outlets, I guess.
Larry (36:15):
Yeah, for sure.
And good for you, becauseI feel the same way.
I'm in a season where I'm very angry.
I'm angry at a lot of things.
And what I've sort of, realizedrecently, we talked about this.
I've been therapy now and, uh
Madeline Edwards (36:27):
Congratulations..
Larry (36:27):
Thank so much.
And I was like, where's my joy?
I'm so angry and I'm blaming, that's thepart, I'm blaming and I'm blaming and I'm
blaming.
And I'm not being constructive withthe anger, like you were saying.
I'm not pouring it intoconstructive things.
I didn't wanna do this today.
I didn't wanna do anything.
I've been very angry and I've beenin a space where I'm just blaming
and I'm like, wait a minute here.
Slow down, Larry.
(36:49):
And last night my wife came homeand I said, we're gonna do the
barbecue that we talked about.
Instead of saying, nah, Idon't want to, I'm just mad.
And I just was like, let meloosen my tie as it were.
You know the tie that I haveon my own neck, by the way.
And I was like, just Relax a little.
Release a little bit.
It's okay to be angry.
It's okay to feel all these things.
Because look, you're gonna gotalk to Madeline Edwards tomorrow.
(37:11):
And that's what I said to myself.
I said, wow.
And I got to dig into yourmusic and your album today.
And there's a great quote fromThich Nhat Hanh, a Zen Buddhist
Monk, Peace Activist, Author.
And he's pretty much the father,the Godfather of the Mindfulness
Movement.
" True wisdom and compassion are bornfrom touching, real suffering."
It's one sentence, but it means so much.
(37:32):
And the fact that you'resharing your story.
So where are you at right now?
your album Fruit is out.
Do you feel a sense of relief?
Are you freaking out?
Because the album is out and alot of times that's a relief.
But you're your own artist.
There's gotta be a lot of pressure on you.
Yes.
So where are you at?
What's going
on?
Madeline Edwards (37:49):
So yes, the album's been out now.
Not even a week, it'll be a week tomorrow.
So that's crazy.
Whew.
I feel a lot of relief.
I definitely feel free.
I feel a lot of freedom.
It was produced by AndrewPetroff, me and Oscar Charles.
And Andrew Petroff has done a lotof really cool stuff in Nashville.
Both of them have, and they reallytook a leap in helping me learn
(38:09):
how to produce my own record.
Larry (38:11):
So was this the first time you had produced your own record?
Madeline Edwards (38:14):
I have been producing my own records for a long time.
But didn't know how to claim that title.
As a woman, you try to be alittle bit behind the scenes.
You don't wanna assert too much.
And I think as I'm getting older, I justwanna start claiming titles for myself.
I wanna start saying like,no, I was involved with this
process from the inception of it.
I need to call myself A Producer.
Larry (38:33):
That's
really wonderful because I've beenon the other side of that where
I've worked with artists that decidethat they are the end all be all,
and I'm like, I remember producing that.
Madeline Edwards (38:42):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (38:42):
I feel like I remember I did that.
I kind of feel like that was my idea.
I kind of feel like I know what I'mtalking about and of course I say nothing
because the artist wins those situations.
And it really sucks.
Then they're the artists that makeup things that I never knew existed.
Madeline Edwards (38:58):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (38:58):
Like I've never seen credits on a major record where it says Background
Vocals Produced by "so and so."
Madeline Edwards (39:04):
Is that a thing?
Larry (39:05):
Exactly.
Thank you.
Madeline Edwards (39:06):
I need to.
Start claiming that.
If that's the case.
Larry (39:08):
If that's a thing, then I win a Grammy for that because I produced
a lot of great background vocals.
But I've worked with artists thatliterally, I see things on their liner
notes where I'm like, you made that upjust to have another credit for yourself.
A, you're the artist.
B, you're the co-writeron all your own songs.
You're the producer, but you need more.
And so here you are finallyclaiming who you are, yourself.
Madeline Edwards (39:30):
It feels really good proving to a bunch of suits that I
could do this by myself and make itsound and look just as good, if not
better than all their artists as well.
Again, that's the competitive,angry side of me, of course.
I have to kind of go back and forthmaking sure I'm not comparing.
It's really hard to keepthat mindset at bay.
It's easy for all of usto get swept in that.
(39:51):
I think all artists deal with
that,
Larry (39:52):
Every day
Madeline Edwards (39:53):
And then because I'm independent, I'm realizing more now that
I've been inside of the machine to geton the bigger playlist, You kind of need
label support and so now I'm kind offighting with this like, okay, well how
do I just spur up something organicallybetween my fan base and social media to
get, the numbers that I want in terms ofgetting this music out to more people,
(40:15):
and letting more people hear this,letting more people connect with this.
So I am seeing in real time there'san Oz behind the curtain controlling
it all and how often and how muchyour music is heard and seen.
You get to trick the algorithma little bit if you can.
If you can have the rightpeople in your corner that know
how to finagle all that shit.
I don't know how to do any of that.
(40:36):
My brother is really good at finagling,marketing things and email newsletters and
he's a bit of a little marketing genius.
And so, there's ways ofpenetrating, but it's gonna be
an uphill battle for me for sure.
So I feel free and encouraged, butI feel like there's a lot of work
ahead of me.
Wow.
Larry (40:54):
Wow.
You're very courageous andyou are very Authentic.
You check the boxes.
Madeline Edwards (40:59):
I checked the box.
Larry (41:00):
You check the box.
your record is fantastic.
The record is Fruit.
Madeline Edwards is out on all platforms.
It's everywhere.
Are you pressing vinyl?
Madeline Edwards (41:08):
I need to find someone to press my vinyl.
This is the indie life again.
Larry (41:11):
I got somebody,
Madeline Edwards (41:12):
I need your
person
Larry (41:13):
As a New Yorker, be real New York you.
I got guy.
Lemme tell you something,Madeline, I got a guy.
By the way, folks hit me up.
My name is Brother Love.
This is the Just Keep Talking podcast.
We're available on all platforms.
You can find me on Instagram at BrotherLove or at the Just Keep Talking podcast.
If you need something,straight up, I got a guy.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
(41:33):
Thank you for being who you are.
Madeline Edwards.
You are going to be embarkingon a fabulous tour in the fall.
The Outlaw Music Festival,10th anniversary tour.
Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Waxahatchee,Sheryl Crow, Madeline Edwards.
I feel inspired and I feel like
I'm gonna be all right thanks to youand I know that a lot of people out
there are gonna listen to your recordand feel like I'm gonna be all right
(41:56):
because I'm listening to Madeline Edwards.
So thank you for being exactly whoyou are and for being strong and
thank you for having intention.
Thank you.
Right.
That's what it's about.
You're the real deal and I'vebeen so looking forward to this.
I keep saying that I'm a big fan of yours.
I hope we get to sing together again
soon.
Madeline Edwards (42:13):
Oh, I hope so too.
Next year at the next Roscolusa
Absolutely.
Thank you for
having me, and thank you for letting me bevulnerable and letting me tell my story.
Larry (42:21):
Okay, well until next time folks, the Just Keep Talking podcast with me,
Brother Love, because Your Story Matters.
Bye bye.
Brother Love (42:29):
You can personally support this show simply by clicking
the tip link in the show notes.
The Just Keep Talking podcast is nowavailable on all podcast platforms.
Please like, share, and subscribe.
Visit our website@justkeeptalking.com,
our YouTube channel@justkeeptalkingpodcast and
Instagram @thejustkeeptalkingpodcast.
(42:50):
We all just want to be seen,to be heard and to belong.
Thank you so much for supportingmy mission and the Just Keep
Talking podcast with me, BrotherLove, because Your Story Matters.
Jonah Edwards (43:04):
Madeline, I am so damn impressed with Crashlanded.
I am so beyond words, beyond impressed.
Um, oh, I mean, I'm gettingmy words back this week.
Madeline extraordinary playlist.
I, I just, I mean, not even, Imean, it feels like a playlist,
(43:31):
like you capture these differentelements and, and your album.
And I guess all albums areplaylists to me at this point,
so don't take anything by it.
But you're like this space princessthat has come to the, to the Western,
like almost like we're still inwestern days, like we haven't even
(43:54):
discovered our true potential.
And you've come down,you're like, bam, bitches.
I'm here.
It's incredible.
Madeline, um,
I am just so impressed, so proud.
I don't think you understand thatI have always been your biggest
(44:14):
fan, Madeline and I might possibly,definitely, always will be.
I am claiming that title now.
I am your biggest fan and I, yeah, Ijust, I cannot get over this album.
Um, I'm listening to it nowbecause I, like, I'm waiting for.
To listen to a bunch ofalbums when I get to Houston.
But, um, I'm listening to this one nowbecause I'm just getting a headstart.
(44:39):
I already know I'm gonna belistening to this so many times.
Every single song on the album,Madeline, uh, I can't even tell you.
Telling our stories is the connective tissue of the
collective human experience.
The Just Keep Talking podcast delvesinto the lives and stories of artists.
What is the impact ofmental health on creativity?
What does it mean to bea creative individual?
Someone who feels deeply, experiencesjoy and pain, intensely and
navigates the challenges of lifethrough the creative process.
(00:21):
With each story shared, we explorethe authentic experience of our
basic need to be seen, to be heard
and to belong.
We are really not so differentfrom one another, nor are we alone.
Together we can inspire, encourage, andenlighten each other to find the true joy
and fulfillment that is within ourselves.
When we Just Keep Talking, wecreate the space for Gratitude.
(00:44):
Self-acceptance andGrace in everyday life.
In a world filled with divisiveness,
fostering inclusivity and connection isa powerful way to make a positive impact.
The Just Keep Talking podcast with me,Brother Love, because Your Story Matters.
Madeline Edwards (01:03):
Two story.
She standing in the kitchen if you.
Larry (02:12):
Welcome to the Just Keep Talking podcast with
me, Brother Love, becauseYour Story Matters.
The following content maycontain sensitive material about
suicide and suicidal ideation.
If you or someone you know arestruggling with suicidal thoughts,
emotional distress, substanceabuse problems, or just needs to
talk, please know that you are not.
(02:34):
Alone and that help is available.
You can contact the Suicide and CrisisLifeline by calling or texting 9
8 8 or chat at 9 8 8 lifeline.org.
These services are free,they are confidential, and
they are available 24 7 365.
Thank you for tuning into thisshow, the Just Keep Talking podcast.
(02:54):
I'm honored to be here with Madeline.
Edwards.
Hello, Madeline Edwards.
Madeline Edwards (02:59):
Hi Larry.
Larry (03:00):
My goodness.
Let me get the Googlecommercial out of the way.
Here it is.
Madeline Edwards is a genre definingsinger songwriter whose music
seamlessly blends country, jazz,soul, and rock influences into a
sound that is uniquely her own.
With a voice that carriesboth power and vulnerability.
She has captivated audiences withher authenticity, storytelling,
(03:23):
and rich emotive delivery.
Now, after a two and a half yearhiatus from releasing music.
Edwards returns with her muchanticipated sophomore album.
A record that comes from the depthsof loss, resilience, and rediscovery.
In that time, she endured theheartbreaking loss of her beloved
brother being dropped from a majorlabel and the long, arduous fight
(03:46):
to reclaim her voice and artistry.
Through it all, she, you, MadelineEdwards, emerged stronger, crafting
a body of work that reflects notjust her pain but her triumph.
With a renewed spirit and undeniablepresence, Edwards is ready to
step back into the spotlight.
Not just as an artist, but as asurvivor, a storyteller, and a force
(04:06):
to be reckoned with in modern music.
Thank you for having me in your home.
Madeline Edwards (04:11):
Thanks for having me.
On your show.
on your home.
Larry (04:13):
Yeah.
I've been really looking forward tospeaking with you for a long time.
We've known each, we've knowneach other for a few years now.
Many years, yeah.
Madeline Edwards (04:20):
Almost five years now.
Yeah.
you are technically the firstshow that I had in Nashville.
' cause y'all played Them Vibes.
played, Yeah.
at the Basement East.
Larry (04:29):
Juneteenth
show, right?
Madeline Edwards (04:30):
It might've been actually.
I remember we did colorsby the black Pumas.
Yeah.
Larry (04:34):
Them Vibes, we really, love to put on shows that have meaning.
Not a Them Vibes show justto be, hello, here we are.
And we really had the opportunityto have new friends and old friends.
And you were the newfriend that Alex Haddad.
Alex Rahal, my partner and Them Vibes.
He said, man, Madeline Edwards,she's gotta be on this show.
You blew the whole room away.
You did Colors and brought everythingthat I thought you would be, you were in,
(04:58):
in your first smile and hello and hug.
And you sang Colors.
You're a star.
Madeline Edwards (05:03):
Thank you.
Larry (05:04):
So you've been in Nashville since what?
2021.
Yeah.
Madeline Edwards (05:06):
Yeah.
21,
it's been, four and a half years now.
Larry (05:09):
Wow.
So you were born inCalifornia, raised in Houston?
Mm-hmm.
You are the oldest of five.
Yeah.
I'm looking at you.
I'm not even looking at my notes, like I,
Madeline Edwards (05:17):
I, I know you're doing.
really good.
Larry (05:18):
You played piano as a kid, learned how to play the
drums at University of Houston?
Madeline Edwards (05:23):
I was studying advertising at the University of Houston,
and just learning drums along the way.
'cause I was still gigging in steakhouses,Jazz clubs, Wine bars the whole bit.
I would load my shit aroundand, do the gigging life.
Larry (05:36):
What made you come to Nashville?
What was the catalyst that you're like,I could do this, I should do this.
And you were married, Jim is your husband?
Yes.
You were married
already?
Madeline Edwards (05:43):
Mm-hmm.
I was.
Larry (05:44):
Living
in Houston
Madeline Edwards (05:45):
So we were long distance.
I was in Houston.
He was in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Before we got married we were tryingto decide, we were long distance,
our whole relationship until wegot married, we didn't even live in
the same city until we got married.
Which is against all my better advicethat I've given to my siblings or friends.
I'm like, nope, you shoulddate for eight years.
You should be engaged for five.
You know, I'm just like, get to knowevery person in every season of their
(06:08):
life before you, I was a skeptic of
marriage.
Larry (06:10):
Well, how did you meet?
Madeline Edwards (06:11):
We met online.
I was doing background vocalsfor a rapper named Tobe Nwigwe.
A Houston rapper, and he wenton NPR Tiny Desk Jim's roommate
was, for a lack of better words,interested and slid in the DMs first.
Right.
And was Like, love your music, love yourheart for the Lord would love to keep
talking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(06:32):
And so we talked for about three monthsand it didn't really go anywhere.
But I got to know Jim rightthrough getting to know this guy.
And me and Jim kind of were penpals for a year and just hit it off.
and, You know, starteddating shortly after that,
Larry (06:47):
So you both moved here separately.
What was it like support wise withyour family, you're the oldest of five.
So what was it like?
It must have been really scary.
Madeline Edwards (06:55):
It was scary.
I hated leaving my family.
All my family's still back in Texas.
And Jim has been born and raised inHattiesburg and did not live anywhere his
entire life until we moved to Nashville.
There were a few key pieces.
I was working with a guy at thetime named Josh Moore, who produced
Hold My Horses and the Road, he wasfriends with Ian Fitchuk, who's done
(07:17):
the Golden Hour record with Casey.
All of Casey's albums.
The new Leon Bridges record thatjust came out and Josh was the
one that had these random ties topeople that I knew in Nashville.
And so I was like, you know what?
Maybe I just needed.
need to
take a leap and just makenew friends out there.
I didn't know a wholelot of people, honestly.
We didn't really know anybody.
Yeah.
Amara our mutual friend, Amara Hall.
(07:39):
Who is a brilliant creativeand one of the most incredibly
beautiful and unique humans I've ever met.
That was our firstfriend ever in Nashville.
Larry (07:48):
That's
a good one.
Madeline Edwards (07:49):
That's
A good first one to have
Man.
Larry (07:51):
You hit the jackpot.
Madeline Edwards (07:51):
That's a good first friend.
to have.
But yeah, the support wasstrong when we came out here.
I think a lot of people, includingboth of our families, knew, to
try to get to the next level.
You kind of always have to do a littlebit of a trust fall even with yourself.
Larry (08:03):
Yeah You know?
So you moved to Nashville.
how long were you hereuntil you got signed?
Madeline Edwards (08:06):
It wasn't long.
Larry (08:07):
How did that happen?
Madeline Edwards (08:07):
Let's see, a year in, I had gotten asked by Amanda
Shires, who's part of the, High Women.
Yeah.
To sing on a Lady Gaga project.
A few months after that, Igot asked to go on the CMAs.
A few months after that got askedto go on the road with Stapleton.
So it was a lot of ping
ponging.
Yeah.
Like There's a lot of things gettingthrown my way and I hadn't had management
or any label or anything up to thatpoint, but things were speeding up
(08:31):
so fast that you think like, oh,I have to quickly assemble a team
because I can't manage all this on
my
own.
Right.
Or at least I didn't have the toolkitin my belt to manage that on my own.
I have the toolkit nowto manage that on my own.
Would I, love some help, obviously, butit's always better to have autonomy over
your work and your business than to handit off to somebody that you don't know
(08:55):
super well, I cannot believe I did that.
We'll go into that
later.
Larry (08:58):
But felt good right at first?
Madeline Edwards (09:00):
I think it felt necessary at
first.
Larry (09:02):
Okay,
Madeline Edwards (09:02):
It's a weird song.
and dance.
Larry (09:04):
It's a weird song and dance and at the time, I mean, look, you
were signed to a major frickinglabel, so it's all gonna be good.
It's all gonna work out.
Once this happens, it's life stuff, right?
Life is gonna be, it'll beperfect when that happens.
My record will come out.
I mean, so you did have a recordcome out on the label, right?
Madeline Edwards (09:21):
I did.
Larry (09:22):
They put the record
out.
Madeline Edwards (09:23):
That record was already done.
Larry (09:25):
Crashlanded in
2022.
Madeline Edwards (09:27):
It was done.
So I owned the Masters to it, luckily.
Larry (09:30):
Good for you.
Madeline Edwards (09:31):
They licensed it, but I did put it out under Warner.
Yes.
Larry (09:34):
I read all these things like your genre bending and your jazz and your rock.
I love the fact that the Country Musicworld took you and called you their own.
You became more of aCountry Star than anything.
You were like a darlingof the Country music
world.
Madeline Edwards (09:47):
I don't know how that
happened.
happened Right.
Larry (09:49):
Did you expect that all coming
to Nashville?
Madeline Edwards (09:51):
No.
Larry (09:52):
So how long were you on the label?
How long did you feel
the love?
I know it's a long time agonow, and you're in new season.
Madeline Edwards (09:56):
I got dropped literally this time last year.
Larry (10:00):
Oh,
Madeline Edwards (10:00):
Mm-hmm.
It hasn't been that long.
I mean, I was probablyon it for two years.
I
felt the love for, It's complicated.
I think there's a lot of, powerstruggle in labels right now.
I think there is notvery solid leadership.
In the midst of me tryingto find my own voice.
I think there's a lot of people evenat the top trying to also find their
(10:23):
voice because there's so much turnover.
Right now.
And there's not a whole lot ofdefinition on what leadership is and
what that's supposed to look like.
Does it look like we change the colorof what kind of artists we sign?
Like do we sign more, Black Artists?
Do we sign more Queer Artists?
Does that mean we're trying tofight for change in this way?
(10:45):
Does that mean we're competingagainst other streaming services?
There's such confusion on what thedirection is and who the real leaders
are how could I feel love from them?
They couldn't even reallyknow how to love themselves.
I'm a self-aware enough person tonotice pretty early on what was going on
inside the machine by thetime I had already signed.
(11:08):
And I kind of knew, even sixmonths in, like, I don't know
if this is gonna last very long.
And you're seeing the trend oflike, there's barely any Black
Country Artists signed now, If any?
I don't think there are.
Larry (11:20):
See, that's where I'm confused.
So you are, what do youidentify yourself as?
Madeline Edwards (11:24):
Mixed.
My mom's white, my dad's black.
Larry (11:26):
Very simple, right?
Madeline Edwards (11:27):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (11:27):
So.
I'm shocked that they let you gobecause I do feel like we're in this
crazy world where, hey, like yousaid, we gotta check some boxes here.
And you check a good box, you know you'rea female, you know you're mixed race.
Okay, great, are you sure you're not Gay?
Are you sure you're not Queer?
'cause we could check another box here.
Madeline Edwards (11:44):
I mean, I am Queer, so they could also check that box.
Can you be Queer and be marriedto a straight white man?
I don't really know, but yeah,
there's like, let's check every box.
Why not?
Larry (11:52):
Yeah,
They just called back.
They wanna
resign you.
They're like, you didn't tell us you wereQueer also and married to a white guy?
Oh my God.
We'll give you double
the the money!
Oh my gosh.
Madeline Edwards (12:01):
Holy shit.
Larry (12:02):
But that's
the way things sort of, are right now,and I'm shocked that they let you go.
Madeline Edwards (12:07):
Well, it's not the way things are anymore.
There's a lot of those programs going away
now.
Larry (12:11):
So how did you feel?
Why did you get dropped?
Why do you think you got
Madeline Edwards (12:14):
dropped?
I I think I got dropped because the labels
don't
know how to conveytheir own value anymore.
Because you're seeing a lot ofIndependent Artists or Artists
like Zach Bryan or people whoare just kind of, can you cuss on
this?
You show?
Larry (12:28):
You
can do whatever you want
Madeline Edwards (12:29):
Artists who have kind of fucked the system a little bit.
How.
Larry (12:32):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (12:32):
It's
an algorithm game for everybody,even if you own the algorithm.
And so if you have, like you were saying,putting out things every week, because
we're fighting this algorithm now, ifyou're putting out 40 song albums and
then the next year another 40 songalbum, you're in favor of the algorithm.
And So
if these
indie artists are blowing up on TikTok.
Blowing up on their socials.
(12:54):
Finding their own ways of makingmoney through Substack and Patreon and
they're doing all this without a label.
And now a label is only a bank.
I don't even like their creative teams.
I don't even know what's coming outof a label in terms of relationships
or networking other than you justgave me a lot of money, right.
To make this thing and it's moneythat I'm gonna have to pay back anyway
'cause it's going towards my recoup.
(13:15):
So, you know, you're really just a bank.
And so I think the labels are nowtrying to reestablish what they are.
And that's why you're seeinga lot of labels now making
their own streaming services.
They're in the process of making their ownthings where they control the algorithm.
And you're gonna start seeing some ofthem trying to compete with Spotify
and Apple Music and taking theirartists off of those streaming sites.
(13:38):
Because now whoever owns the product,whoever owns the art, is the one
that can control the output of it.
And so in this shift that'shappening, we've seen this
throughout time as media changes.
This is how we saw media change whenradio was introduced, and then you see
it again when television's introduced.
You see it again when theInternet's introduced.
And we're just gonna keepseeing this over and over again.
(13:59):
Especially now with AI.
It's like the wild west out here.
Yeah.
And we're seeing thatshift all over again.
you're seeing little companies breakinto tiny little conglomerates that
a big company, like a Universalor whatever, will go and buy up.
All of that.
And so as they're reestablishingwhat their role is, whether
it is a bank for artists.
Or a streaming service they're making alot of cuts, and it's not just to artists.
(14:21):
Warner as a whole.
All of their labels under them cutabout 150 artists last year, including
myself.
And they're doing massivelayoffs across the board.
And so, you're seeing thisat every single label.
I think I was just
one of the artists that wasn'tmaking them enough money.
So of course I was part of the150 artists that got dropped,
(14:42):
there was no reason to keep me
on.
And there's definitely no reason tokeep me on, even if I have a beautiful
record with all these through lines inthis beautiful story of redemption and
a really vulnerable story of grief.
I have a lot I could dive into onwhy I think this record wouldn't have
done well under a major label anyway.
Larry (14:59):
The new
one?
Madeline Edwards (15:00):
The new one.
Fruit.
Larry (15:01):
Okay, why wouldn't it have done well?
Well, first of all,
let's go back a little bit This ispart of the People Magazine article.
You say, "After the darkest seasonsof my life loss, heartbreak,
disappointment, Fruit was born.
It's proof that even insorrow, there's beauty.
Even in endings, there's new life.
This album is my heart, my healing, myreminder that our pain is never wasted.
(15:23):
God doesn't just restore, he multiplies.
If you are in a dark place, holdon, there's a harvest coming.
You can't even imagine yet."
There's a lot of faith in
there.
And there's a lot of faith andbeauty in this record Fruit.
Why would it have notworked on a major label?
Madeline Edwards (15:40):
Because it's not manufactured emotion.
It's a real story and it needs theright people behind it to make it work.
After a certain point of me trying to sella real story, I think I was realizing,
I don't even know if the people at thevery top of these labels know this.
But I think a lot of the thingsI'm watching coming out of these
labels, even if it is emotional,even if it is in touch with grief or
(16:04):
vulnerability, it feels manufactured.
I remember when I was turning insongs for this record, there was a
bit of time where, you know, when Iwas still trying to keep my deal, I
was like, well, maybe I can just keephalf the record the things I wanted.
And then give them half of what theywant to try to get them something
they can put to Country Radio.
And the things they kept sayingthat they liked were just like; I've
(16:26):
been through shit and I'm a strongTexas girl and I've been through a
lot, but I'm stronger 'cause of it.
I feel like Crashlanded was a littlebit like that, but what did you
go through that made you strong?
Let's talk about that.
You say there's a lot of faith in this.
I am a woman of faith, but that took alot of deconstruction because I grew up
in a faith-based home, mostly Baptist,mostly non-denominational Christian, I
(16:48):
had to reverse a lot of things that Iwas taught were in line with The Gospel
or the Walk of Christ here on Earth,
that was completely just not true at all.
And so it was me having to really fightfor what was the actual message of Jesus
when he came here, and it was to love.
To love the orphans and thewidows to not be homophobic.
There is so much Grace in themessage of The Gospel that I
(17:11):
think we forget all the time.
This is such a complex record
that's dealing with themes of faithand mental illness and family and
overturning generational trauma.
I don't know if any major label right nowhas the emotional intelligence to be fully
equipped to market a record this in depth.
Larry (17:30):
And yet
what sells these days,what everybody is pitching,
is Authenticity.
We throw these words around now.,
My show, when I tell somebody, Hey, Ihave a podcast called, Just Keep Talking.
Oh, that sounds cool.
What
is
it?
I talk to different artists and creatives,but I really lean into Mental Health.
Madeline Edwards (17:44):
Oh.
Mm-hmm.
Larry (17:45):
This this is so important, and I get this real shiny big smile.
We're programmed now, these are triggerwords because it triggers a response
of like, wow, that's important.
If you just say Mental Health, wow.
If you say Authentic, wow.
You are being as Authenticas you could ever be.
Which by the way, how do wedefine being more authentic?
You're being authentic and thelabel was like it's not the
(18:08):
Authenticity that we're looking
for.
Mm-hmm.
That's bananas, but that isthe world we're living in.
Madeline Edwards (18:13):
Well then they can control you though.
if you don't get deeper, if you don'tget, like what you were saying with
so many men opening up on your show.
If you can keep the masses at a certainemotional level, then they're not doing
the inner work to make themselves moreintelligent and then they can control you
(18:33):
more.
Larry (18:33):
Right.
And it keeps thenarrative in their corner.
So let's just go to the narrative.
So your brother, Jonah,
Killed himself.
Mm-hmm.
In 2023?
Madeline Edwards (18:41):
2023.
in November.
Larry (18:43):
I'm so
sorry.
Thank you.
I really am so sorry.
As somebody who suffers from mentalillness and depression and anxiety,
and it's been in my family forever.
My mother died way too young, and shesuffered for a long, long, long time.
It's something that is in my family.
And, drug abuse and mental illness.
Listening to your record Fruitwas such a journey of you just
(19:06):
telling your story, and I'm gladyou're not on that major label.
I really am.
What
was it
like
to all have it come crashingdown at the same time?
How did you not just throw everythingaway and say, fuck it, I'm out.
I mean, you kept going.
You somehow, you were still, I don't
know.
Madeline Edwards (19:22):
In motion.
Larry (19:22):
You
were still in motion.
Thank
you.
Madeline Edwards (19:24):
I don't know, like, honestly, I,
I stopped
going to therapy after Jonah passedand for a minute there, the writing
and the music was my therapy, thatwas how I was processing the grief.
But then it started forming into thishalf story that I brought into my life.
Because I was trying to be in tunewith what the universe was trying,
(19:47):
I just think I'm an instrument.
I try to just be a channel to let whatevermessage, I try to be very sensitive
to what everyone around me needs.
And I don't know if that'sjust from being the oldest kid.
I don't really know what that'sfrom, but I have learned to be
a good listener because of Jim.
Jim is an excellent
listener.
Larry (20:07):
Your husband.
Madeline Edwards (20:08):
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
And you're right, it's generosity.
So I've been listening for a really longtime to my audience and to my family and
to the people in my life who are alsocreatives and artists and feel oppressed
in a sense by the capitalistic nature ofour Country and our industry right now.
And I think a lot of thethemes I kept hearing were.
(20:28):
we have a lot of holidays andhashtags around Mental Health.
Right.
it's a checkbox kind of just like,oh, let's just sign a black artist.
'cause it makes us look good.
Oh, let's have a hashtagon Mental Health day.
'Cause
Larry (20:40):
that's right.
Madeline Edwards (20:41):
It's a trigger word, like you said, but
people
are still uncomfortable to talk about it.
It's still incredibly taboo.
Yeah.
And I just tapped into that and soI think it kept me alive, honestly.
That might have not beenright way to grieve.
Like diving headfirst that much into mywork, but also who's gonna tell me how to
grieve?
Yeah.
Larry (20:58):
Did you feel a responsibility?
Madeline Edwards (21:00):
Yeah.
Larry (21:01):
Who were you feeling responsible to?
Because like you said, you're theeldest of five, You're married.
I don't know if, for my own self,could I make it through and just
dive into anything other than,a pool of booze or something
Madeline Edwards (21:12):
I also poured into much of that too.
Larry (21:15):
Yeah.
But who did you
yeah.
a responsibility to?
You've already started laying downa groundwork, like all of a sudden.
You have a little bit of fame.
You're co-writing for your record.
You're stepping into a roomwith people hopefully you're
friendly enough with people that youcreate with, but sometimes you're not.
It's like, hey, I'm just gonnawrite a song with somebody.
And they walk in and they're like,oh, Madeline Edwards, she just
(21:35):
lost her brother, she's grieving.
And oh my goodness, like,what are we gonna write about?
There's so much pressure for you tobe strong, you're the eldest of five.
Mm-hmm.
Did you feel a sense of
like,
I gotta do this forsomebody or for something?
Madeline Edwards (21:47):
I had to do this for myself, right?
First and foremost.
And for Jonah.
His death was very swiftand it was very unnatural.
It just was really sudden and hejust was not himself at the end.
I think there was a real, not a pressure,but a responsibility, maybe like what
you said earlier, of, making sure thatthe memory that was left with him.
(22:08):
He took his life at Disneyland.
he jumped from the parking garageat Disneyland and it was, all over
the news and TikTok for a while.
Me and my family had to stayoff the internet for a little
bit, like at least a week.
You know, everything passes quickly.
The news cycles are very fast, andso didn't have to stay off very long,
(22:29):
but enough to where we didn't haveto see that and be reminded of that.
And that is not how I wantedJonah to be remembered or
even seen for the first time.
That's how people were introducedto him and that's not who he was.
Larry (22:45):
Were people cruel?
Madeline Edwards (22:46):
I don't know.
Larry (22:46):
I'm glad.
Madeline Edwards (22:47):
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I didn't read.
I will never go through any of that.
Larry (22:50):
His voicemail is on your record.
And he is so excited about you.
He's so excited about beingable to share your experience.
He loved your record Crashlanded.
And, it was just love.
It was absolute pure love.
When did he leave that voicemail inrelation to when he took his own life?
Madeline Edwards (23:10):
He left that a few months beforehand.
He had schizophrenia so itwas a lot of back and forth
of
hearing from him, then nothearing from him for weeks.
And then you get a call from acompletely different number, and
then you get a call from jail.
It's so chaotic.
It's so volatile for everyone involvedand he was suffering so, so much.
(23:30):
But he would get theselittle bouts of clarity.
Larry (23:33):
Hmm.
Madeline Edwards (23:33):
And he sent that in a bout of clarity.
I think he was driving back fromCalifornia or something to Houston.
he was just listening to musicand listened to my record.
And he would listen toit when he felt low.
At his lowest.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Larry (23:50):
Do you feel guilt?
Madeline Edwards (23:51):
Yes.
Every day.
Mm-hmm.
Why?
Larry (23:54):
Why?
Madeline Edwards (23:55):
I always just feel like I didn't do
enough or tell him enough that,
and I,
know up here that's not true.
I'm still working on my heart.
I know in my head that it, youknow, there's a battle between the
heart and the head with, processingthese kinds of things after death.
'Cause suicide is very confusingfor everybody involved.
and I think that all my siblings and mymom probably feel little bits of guilt.
(24:17):
I wish I would've let him knowmore how much of a star he was.
And that voicemail that he sent me, Iremember little conversations where I
would tell him those same kinds of things,but you know, you always wish, like, I
just wish I told him that like 20% more.
Yeah.
You know?
Right.
Just so he like, without a doubt knew,but you can't take on that kind of blame.
(24:41):
It's
such a mind fuck mental illness.
Like it deteriorates your brain andby the end of it he wasn't even saying
cohesive sentences, you know what I mean?
I can't feel guilty about that.
That wasn't my fault.
It's a disease just likecancer is just like, Crohn's
is just like everything else.
It takes your body and it destroys
it.
Larry (25:01):
Yeah.
a quote this is you, " like a lot ofpeople with mental illness, he was the
joy in the room, even though he wasthe one hurting the most in the room.
It's crazy.
He was just wildlycreative with no limits.
There's not enough peoplelike that in this world."
That was from People Magazinearticle, Rachel DeSantis.
When I read that, it really hit home.
I'm the class clown.
I'm the funniest guy.
(25:21):
I am the ebullient one forever.
And I suffer.
And I suffer and I sufferand I'm in so much pain.
And I read that and I thought, wow,it's so hard sometimes to be outwardly
emotional and to share these things.
And it really can be such a lonely
place.
It really is such afucking lonely space to be
(25:43):
in.
And I'm so sorry 'cause Jonah wassuffering a lot and there's so
many people that suffer a lot andthere's men that don't know how to
speak and don't know how to emote.
Um, Did you feel like needed to, havea responsibility to write something?
Did you feel like as an artist, thatyou had to be a suffering artist?
' Cause here you are suffering.
And you know the pain firsthand andthere's that suffering starving artist
(26:05):
type of mentality where true art is notart unless it comes from a lot of pain.
And that's what I thinka lot of people do.
The other side of it, you could have justbeen like, I'm going to be a strong woman.
And I'm going to show the world that,I can go on and yeah, here's some party
songs, here's some good time stuff,and I'll kind of keep it all separated.
(26:26):
You don't seem to be the type of personthat can separate any of this stuff.
Madeline Edwards (26:30):
I live pretty in real time.
Yeah, for sure.
I
don't really like thesuffering artist mentality.
I don't think I'm like that.
And I don't necessarily likepeople like that either, because
I think there is an optimism.
You can be optimistically pessimistic, ora realist, maybe an optimistic realist.
And I think I'm probably more sothat, I'm really grateful for this
(26:50):
place in my life that I am right now.
And
even with
all of this death and darkness around me.
I think since I was a kid, have
also been battling depressionand anxiety for some reason,
I have to find purpose in it.
I have to find the hope in it.
Otherwise it takes me
down
to places I don't know if I wouldcome back from so I have to fight.
(27:11):
I have to fight for it.
If that makes any sense.
I can't, indulge in the sufferingartist's mentality, 'cause I already
know where that would take me.
If you have a history of this already,then I feel like at least for me,
I have to be really careful inhow I safeguard, thought processes
or things like that, ifthat makes any sense.
Larry (27:29):
Yeah,
that was my next question haveyou kept something just for
you within all this stuff?
Because, you're very open andobviously, like I said, you
went into rooms with co-writers.
You had a lot of great writers on yourrecord that went through the journey
with you and, and help create with
you.
But
a lot of people will say, I'll give thismuch and then I'll keep some for myself.
does that make
sense?
Madeline Edwards (27:48):
I am learning how to keep more things for
myself now, at the beginning whenyou're, at the start of grieving.
And I have gone through many grievingprocesses, but not a death this close.
When you're starting out grieving,you're just an open wound everywhere.
I am sure I said and did crazy thingsthat it's just like, oh, maybe that
wasn't necessarily an appropriate thingto say in a room of writers that you
(28:13):
just met for the first time Nashvillehas a lot of really good humans.
I know Nashville gets a lot of shit,but there's a lot of really good people
that keep a very open, vulnerable spaceand grace to mess up and maybe say
something weird or do something weird,or I'm in a weird season of my life.
There's a lot of people in Nashvillethat just took their own lives.
So maybe we're all kindof affected by this.
(28:34):
So let me share a littlebit about myself too.
And if you open that door, itgives people the invite to also
be vulnerable with themselves.
So it's a healthy process.
But now I'm learning if thatanswers your question at all.
I'm learning in thiscurrent state now that I'm
a little bit further into thegrieving process of how to
keep more things for myself.
Yeah.
Larry (28:53):
Good, for you.
So what did you shed, what did you learn?
How are you different now?
I mean, the obvious is the obvious.
You lost a lot of loss, a lot of grieving,but I listened to some of your, previous
record Crashlanded, and I heard some ofthe things that you were talking about.
I heard the ideas that the label loves.
Mm-hmm.
And you were powerful and you were strong,and you were fun, and you were serious.
(29:16):
You were checking boxes.
I wouldn't have said it to you.
I think it would've been an insultif we were just talking about
congratulations on Crashlanded.
It's a great record andthere's great songs on it,
but I can hear the difference.
Because you've shed some things.
You've learned some things, and youare in a different season right now.
And good for you.
Thank you.
Because A Crashlanded is great.
(29:37):
Fruit is B.
It's great too.
It's a different great
Mm-hmm.
But there's a different Madeleine Edwards,and I know that this could be an obvious
thing, but I'm trying to be a littlebit more nuanced or a little deeper.
What did you shed like?
What did you learn?
How are you
different?
Madeline Edwards (29:51):
What did I shed?
I
shed a lot of self-doubt.
I'm gonna try to say this asbest as I can, but I think I've
seen this with my siblings.
I even saw this with Jonah.
Larry (30:02):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (30:03):
I think because of what we've gone through,
No one's stories are unique.
There's a lot of people thathave been through abuse.
There's a lot of people thathave been through mental illness.
The nuances of how people havemaybe navigated that are different,
but for the most part, we'reall connected through stories.
This answer is like forming in front ofmy eyes before I even thought, I shed
self-doubt and also learned how to notinvolve the story so much around me.
(30:29):
There was
a lot of self-doubt in terms of mebalancing who I wanted to be, but also
what I needed to give the label inorder to keep my job, because it was
more than just losing a label deal.
That's money, you know?
We were really not making a whole lot ofmoney when we first moved to Nashville.
We had to sell everything.
We were, pulling ourselvesup by our bootstraps.
(30:51):
The self-doubt I was experiencingwas me not having enough confidence
in my own experience and how thatties into other people's stories.
And also knowing and watching trendsor cultural identity I'm noticing mass
groups of people, really resonatingwith what I'm saying, whether it's at
this show or with this one random post.
(31:11):
I need to trust my gut that I actuallyknow better than this label head
that's making way more money than I am.
This little girl mindset of like, I'msmall and I don't make as much and I
haven't been doing this as long, soI don't know what I'm talking about.
When it's like, no, actually I've beenstudying this for a very long time.
Not only through my own humanexperience, but also from just
(31:33):
being an artist out in the world andactually being the one out on the road.
These Label heads aren't out on the road.
I'm the one on the road Seeing how.
these audiences
Are affected by the words.
And so I learned how to shed that selfdoubt and lean on my own instinct.
There's no better A&Rthan your own intuition.
Ever.
But then at the same time, I was learning.
The advice the label's giving me is,put the camera in front of your face
(31:56):
and lip sync your own song over and overand over again until it works on TikTok,
until you become recognizable on TikTok.
And the self-indulgence of that
I just couldn't resonate with it at all.
And so I was like, well, Idon't wanna make this about me.
This isn't, yeah, it is my story, but mystory is just like that person's story.
And I connected to this fan over herebecause their brother also died the same
(32:18):
month my brother died of suicide as well.
Like this isn't just my story anymore.
And so once I flipped the script andfocused my socials on like, sure, I'll
post a random selfie of me when Chelseadid my glam, but also like, we're gonna do
prayer nights every Monday, or we're gonnatie in, how did this grief experience
(32:40):
affect how you see this part of the world?
And so I started using my outreachmore as a Community Project, of like,
how are we all connected by grief?
And so once I was able to stop making itthe Madeline show all the time and balance
this massive confidence from sheddingthe self-doubt and also learning how to
just pour back into others, it reallychanged my perspective on everything.
Larry (33:02):
That's amazing.
And as an artist, that'sreally hard to do.
The fact that you didn't utilize itto your advantage, your pain, right?
Your brother dies andyou're still on the label.
They dropped you, what?
Six months after?
So within that time, you'rejust trying to figure it out.
I can only imagine artists that wouldjust be like, how could you drop me?
Look at the pain I'm going
through.
How could you do this to
(33:22):
me?
Madeline Edwards (33:23):
I mean, yeah.
Larry (33:24):
How could you do this to me?
I'm so.
grateful that you
are
who you
are,
that you are able to really bear the
Fruit
in your new record of somethingthat is so personal and so
real, and that it is Communal.
Community is where we canreally find solace and
growth and what you'redoing is so admirable.
(33:48):
I've been wanting to talkto you for a long time.
We've spent a little time together andwe've spent time on stage just recently,
a few months ago we did Roscolusa.
Madeline Edwards (33:55):
What great time,
Larry (33:56):
The festival down in Florida, Kim Page's festival, and we sang
together and there was so much joy.
And you are so free.
You're so giving.
Do you think you would be this freeand this giving if you were still
on the label and sort of doing the
dance?
Madeline Edwards (34:11):
No.
Larry (34:11):
Did you lose your voice at all in any of
this?
Madeline Edwards (34:13):
No.
I lost my voice when I was on it.
Right.
If anything, I've gained it back tenfold
after being dropped, for sure.
Larry (34:21):
Was there a moment where you just were like completely in the
pit and then you found your voice?
Mm-hmm.
What was that like?
There had to be something thatyou're like, oh yeah, it's
me.
Yeah.
Oh, hey, I know
you.
Madeline Edwards (34:32):
Yes.
Well, okay.
A lot of people wouldn't guess
this about me, but I'm, an Eight onthe Enneagram, which is the Challenger.
And unfortunately the,two, the, the Enneagram.
Personality test.
I'm an Aries also, I'm super fiery.
I'm very, confrontive and thetwo classic examples they give
of an Eight on the Enneagram isunfortunately Hitler and Trump.
(34:56):
If an Eight is at their absolute,not healthiest, they can,
very easily manipulate people,if not mass groups of people.
They're very influential.
And they use their powerfor good or for worse.
I am in a phase now whereI'm a healthier Eight.
Because I've learned how to processmy emotions correctly, hopefully.
(35:16):
But there's a lot of anger in that andit usually stems from childhood trauma.
I'm a very angry person.
I'm very angry for justice.
I'm Very, very angry for justice.
And I think what actually maybe gotme out of the hole a little bit was
a little bit of what you were sayingearlier, how could they do this to me?
How could they do this to Jonah?
How could they do this to my family?
(35:37):
And so it was maybe an unhealthyplace of like, well, I'll show them.
Right.
and that's not necessarily healthy,but I'm grateful for it now because
my anger, I've always lookedat it in a very, negative way.
Larry (35:49):
Mm-hmm.
Madeline Edwards (35:49):
And
now I think I'm learning to lookat it more positively of like.
No, you were just angry for justiceand you just wanted to show the
world that the truth can actuallystill penetrate through the noise.
Even if there are greater powers that bethat are trying to squash that down and
say, no, your voice has to stay down here.
And so that anger got me out of the pitand then I learned how to maybe manage
(36:11):
it a little bit healthier and put ittowards, healthier outlets, I guess.
Larry (36:15):
Yeah, for sure.
And good for you, becauseI feel the same way.
I'm in a season where I'm very angry.
I'm angry at a lot of things.
And what I've sort of, realizedrecently, we talked about this.
I've been therapy now and, uh
Madeline Edwards (36:27):
Congratulations..
Larry (36:27):
Thank so much.
And I was like, where's my joy?
I'm so angry and I'm blaming, that's thepart, I'm blaming and I'm blaming and I'm
blaming.
And I'm not being constructive withthe anger, like you were saying.
I'm not pouring it intoconstructive things.
I didn't wanna do this today.
I didn't wanna do anything.
I've been very angry and I've beenin a space where I'm just blaming
and I'm like, wait a minute here.
Slow down, Larry.
(36:49):
And last night my wife came homeand I said, we're gonna do the
barbecue that we talked about.
Instead of saying, nah, Idon't want to, I'm just mad.
And I just was like, let meloosen my tie as it were.
You know the tie that I haveon my own neck, by the way.
And I was like, just Relax a little.
Release a little bit.
It's okay to be angry.
It's okay to feel all these things.
Because look, you're gonna gotalk to Madeline Edwards tomorrow.
(37:11):
And that's what I said to myself.
I said, wow.
And I got to dig into yourmusic and your album today.
And there's a great quote fromThich Nhat Hanh, a Zen Buddhist
Monk, Peace Activist, Author.
And he's pretty much the father,the Godfather of the Mindfulness
Movement.
" True wisdom and compassion are bornfrom touching, real suffering."
It's one sentence, but it means so much.
(37:32):
And the fact that you'resharing your story.
So where are you at right now?
your album Fruit is out.
Do you feel a sense of relief?
Are you freaking out?
Because the album is out and alot of times that's a relief.
But you're your own artist.
There's gotta be a lot of pressure on you.
Yes.
So where are you at?
What's going
on?
Madeline Edwards (37:49):
So yes, the album's been out now.
Not even a week, it'll be a week tomorrow.
So that's crazy.
Whew.
I feel a lot of relief.
I definitely feel free.
I feel a lot of freedom.
It was produced by AndrewPetroff, me and Oscar Charles.
And Andrew Petroff has done a lotof really cool stuff in Nashville.
Both of them have, and they reallytook a leap in helping me learn
(38:09):
how to produce my own record.
Larry (38:11):
So was this the first time you had produced your own record?
Madeline Edwards (38:14):
I have been producing my own records for a long time.
But didn't know how to claim that title.
As a woman, you try to be alittle bit behind the scenes.
You don't wanna assert too much.
And I think as I'm getting older, I justwanna start claiming titles for myself.
I wanna start saying like,no, I was involved with this
process from the inception of it.
I need to call myself A Producer.
Larry (38:33):
That's
really wonderful because I've beenon the other side of that where
I've worked with artists that decidethat they are the end all be all,
and I'm like, I remember producing that.
Madeline Edwards (38:42):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (38:42):
I feel like I remember I did that.
I kind of feel like that was my idea.
I kind of feel like I know what I'mtalking about and of course I say nothing
because the artist wins those situations.
And it really sucks.
Then they're the artists that makeup things that I never knew existed.
Madeline Edwards (38:58):
Mm-hmm.
Larry (38:58):
Like I've never seen credits on a major record where it says Background
Vocals Produced by "so and so."
Madeline Edwards (39:04):
Is that a thing?
Larry (39:05):
Exactly.
Thank you.
Madeline Edwards (39:06):
I need to.
Start claiming that.
If that's the case.
Larry (39:08):
If that's a thing, then I win a Grammy for that because I produced
a lot of great background vocals.
But I've worked with artists thatliterally, I see things on their liner
notes where I'm like, you made that upjust to have another credit for yourself.
A, you're the artist.
B, you're the co-writeron all your own songs.
You're the producer, but you need more.
And so here you are finallyclaiming who you are, yourself.
Madeline Edwards (39:30):
It feels really good proving to a bunch of suits that I
could do this by myself and make itsound and look just as good, if not
better than all their artists as well.
Again, that's the competitive,angry side of me, of course.
I have to kind of go back and forthmaking sure I'm not comparing.
It's really hard to keepthat mindset at bay.
It's easy for all of usto get swept in that.
(39:51):
I think all artists deal with
that,
Larry (39:52):
Every day
Madeline Edwards (39:53):
And then because I'm independent, I'm realizing more now that
I've been inside of the machine to geton the bigger playlist, You kind of need
label support and so now I'm kind offighting with this like, okay, well how
do I just spur up something organicallybetween my fan base and social media to
get, the numbers that I want in terms ofgetting this music out to more people,
(40:15):
and letting more people hear this,letting more people connect with this.
So I am seeing in real time there'san Oz behind the curtain controlling
it all and how often and how muchyour music is heard and seen.
You get to trick the algorithma little bit if you can.
If you can have the rightpeople in your corner that know
how to finagle all that shit.
I don't know how to do any of that.
(40:36):
My brother is really good at finagling,marketing things and email newsletters and
he's a bit of a little marketing genius.
And so, there's ways ofpenetrating, but it's gonna be
an uphill battle for me for sure.
So I feel free and encouraged, butI feel like there's a lot of work
ahead of me.
Wow.
Larry (40:54):
Wow.
You're very courageous andyou are very Authentic.
You check the boxes.
Madeline Edwards (40:59):
I checked the box.
Larry (41:00):
You check the box.
your record is fantastic.
The record is Fruit.
Madeline Edwards is out on all platforms.
It's everywhere.
Are you pressing vinyl?
Madeline Edwards (41:08):
I need to find someone to press my vinyl.
This is the indie life again.
Larry (41:11):
I got somebody,
Madeline Edwards (41:12):
I need your
person
Larry (41:13):
As a New Yorker, be real New York you.
I got guy.
Lemme tell you something,Madeline, I got a guy.
By the way, folks hit me up.
My name is Brother Love.
This is the Just Keep Talking podcast.
We're available on all platforms.
You can find me on Instagram at BrotherLove or at the Just Keep Talking podcast.
If you need something,straight up, I got a guy.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
(41:33):
Thank you for being who you are.
Madeline Edwards.
You are going to be embarkingon a fabulous tour in the fall.
The Outlaw Music Festival,10th anniversary tour.
Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Waxahatchee,Sheryl Crow, Madeline Edwards.
I feel inspired and I feel like
I'm gonna be all right thanks to youand I know that a lot of people out
there are gonna listen to your recordand feel like I'm gonna be all right
(41:56):
because I'm listening to Madeline Edwards.
So thank you for being exactly whoyou are and for being strong and
thank you for having intention.
Thank you.
Right.
That's what it's about.
You're the real deal and I'vebeen so looking forward to this.
I keep saying that I'm a big fan of yours.
I hope we get to sing together again
soon.
Madeline Edwards (42:13):
Oh, I hope so too.
Next year at the next Roscolusa
Absolutely.
Thank you for
having me, and thank you for letting me bevulnerable and letting me tell my story.
Larry (42:21):
Okay, well until next time folks, the Just Keep Talking podcast with me,
Brother Love, because Your Story Matters.
Bye bye.
Brother Love (42:29):
You can personally support this show simply by clicking
the tip link in the show notes.
The Just Keep Talking podcast is nowavailable on all podcast platforms.
Please like, share, and subscribe.
Visit our website@justkeeptalking.com,
our YouTube channel@justkeeptalkingpodcast and
Instagram @thejustkeeptalkingpodcast.
(42:50):
We all just want to be seen,to be heard and to belong.
Thank you so much for supportingmy mission and the Just Keep
Talking podcast with me, BrotherLove, because Your Story Matters.
Jonah Edwards (43:04):
Madeline, I am so damn impressed with Crashlanded.
I am so beyond words, beyond impressed.
Um, oh, I mean, I'm gettingmy words back this week.
Madeline extraordinary playlist.
I, I just, I mean, not even, Imean, it feels like a playlist,
(43:31):
like you capture these differentelements and, and your album.
And I guess all albums areplaylists to me at this point,
so don't take anything by it.
But you're like this space princessthat has come to the, to the Western,
like almost like we're still inwestern days, like we haven't even
(43:54):
discovered our true potential.
And you've come down,you're like, bam, bitches.
I'm here.
It's incredible.
Madeline, um,
I am just so impressed, so proud.
I don't think you understand thatI have always been your biggest
(44:14):
fan, Madeline and I might possibly,definitely, always will be.
I am claiming that title now.
I am your biggest fan and I, yeah, Ijust, I cannot get over this album.
Um, I'm listening to it nowbecause I, like, I'm waiting for.
To listen to a bunch ofalbums when I get to Houston.
But, um, I'm listening to this one nowbecause I'm just getting a headstart.
(44:39):
I already know I'm gonna belistening to this so many times.
Every single song on the album,Madeline, uh, I can't even tell you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.