Mental Health and Creativity: Stories of Struggle and Support

Episode Transcript
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Brother Love (00:00):
Telling our stories is the connective tissue of the
collective human experience.
The Just Keep Talking podcast delvesinto the lives and stories of artists.
What is the impact ofmental health on creativity?
What does it mean to bea creative individual?
Someone who feels deeply, experiencesjoy and pain, intensely and
navigates the challenges of lifeThrough the creative process.

(00:21):
With each story shared, we explore theauthentic experience of our basic need
to be seen, to be heard, and to belong.
We are really not so differentfrom one another, nor are we alone.
Together we can inspire, encourage, andenlighten each other to find the true joy
and fulfillment that is within ourselves.
When we Just Keep Talking, we create thespace for gratitude, self-acceptance,

(00:46):
and grace in everyday life.
In a world filled with divisiveness,fostering inclusivity and connection is
a powerful way to make a positive impact.
The Just Keep Talking podcast with me,Brother Love, because Your Story Matters.

Larry (01:02):
Welcome to the Just Keep Talking podcast.
My name is Brother Love.
Your story matters.
I'm joined today by Alex Chont of,David's Den and Josh Womack, singer
songwriter, small business, ownerand huge advocate for Mental Health.
Before we get started, I would liketo just say as a little disclaimer,
we will be discussing very serioustopics, suicide, suicide prevention,

(01:26):
Mental Health on a very deep, level.
If
you or anybody you know is sufferingfrom thoughts of suicide, or wanting
to hurt yourself, please call 9 8 8or the National Suicide Prevention
Hotline at 1 800-2 7 3-8 2 5 5.
Good day, gentlemen, Alex.
Hello.

Alex Chont (01:43):
Hey, Larry.
How are you?

Larry (01:45):
I'm very well.
Thank you so very much, Josh.
How are you?

Josh Womack (01:47):
Brother Love I'm well.

Larry (01:48):
Alright.
we, did an episode of CommunityCorner, a show that I host on
Nashville's Independent radiostation, WRLT Nashville, 100.1
fm on the dial and lightning100.com.
You can listen to CommunityCorner with David's Den, on
lightning100.com/communitycorner.
David's Den is a one of a kind 5 0 1C nonprofit resource in Nashville for

(02:13):
musicians in the creative community.
It is a safe space where they can getsupport, guidance, and friendship if
they are feeling self-destructive,having suicidal thoughts or experiencing
internal pressures due to depressionor other mental health matters.
Thank you for being here.

Alex Chont (02:30):
Thank you again.
we really appreciate you, comingout it's a big honor and, we
appreciate the attention and theshine that you're gonna give us.

Larry (02:36):
Alex, would you tell us the story of David's Den.

Alex Chont (02:39):
David's Den started, out of a tragedy.
I lost my brother, David, he was13 when he committed suicide.
I struggled my whole life, withsuicidal thoughts, depression,
anxiety, I can remember, havingsuicidal thoughts as an adolescent.
I got exposed to, to, I guess tothe game at a pretty early life.
But, David's Den, startedwith the loss of my brother.
I wanted to do something to honor him.

(03:00):
I didn't know when or how it wasgonna be because at that time
I was still working on myself.
During that time I was a raging,full-blown alcoholic drug addict,
person that was just completelyoutta control that had a death wish.
It took some time to get tothe point where we're at today.
When we lost David, it kind ofput me down a different path.
The path I was going towas self-destruction.
I knew it was gonna either end with,a shotgun in my mouth or me hanging.

(03:22):
Some way, it was gonna end thatway, and I was fine with it.
But then after I seen what it didto my brother, what it did to my
family, I realized that wasn'tgoing to be an option anymore.
So, things kind of changed a little bit.
Music has always been a passion.
It's always been something that Iwas able to go to, to help, through
the good times or the bad times.
It's always been my thing.
It's always been there for me.
I bounced around all over thecountry, whether it was on Grateful

(03:44):
Dead Tours, once Jerry passed andit was Phish and Widespread Panic.
And that's what I was doing.
At that time I was in, Atlanta, Georgia.
Met a friend, well he wasn't afriend at that time, he was a merch
man for the Drive-by Truckers.
His name was Craig Linsky.
He was from the same area whereI was from in Ohio, that kind
of way over that connection.
He worked for the Drive-by Truckers.
A huge Drive-by Truckers fan.
When you're young ageyou wanna meet the band.

(04:05):
That's all you wanna do.
You wanna get backstage and hangout You have all these ideas
in your head, the way it is.
Reality folks is it's not.
I met Craig and we got to talk and,and as we broke down the barriers,
he introduced me to Nuçi Space.
'Cause, you know, I wastelling him about my anxiety.
We opened up about anxiety, depression,and we just opened, you know, I didn't
realize that there's other people thatreally felt like me because other people
I was around, I would never open upto because I was too cool, too tough.

(04:27):
All those things that I had inmy head, that's really not true.
But I thought that I was, and,I would never, want to tell
anybody, how I really felt.
I was scared I didn't think thatthey cared or it didn't matter.
But when I met Craig I found, there'sa whole nother community out there.
He introduced me to a place called NuçiSpace, which is out of Athens, Georgia.

Larry (04:43):
Nuçi?

Alex Chont (04:43):
Nuçi Space.
Nuçi Space.
They're out of Athens, Georgia.
I went there on a whimjust to check it out.
I got greeted with open arms.
Nuçi Space is a resource centerfor Mental Health, and people that
struggle with suicide and depression.
In Athens, Georgia, it'sa great music scene.
I went in there and everybodyin there was just like me.
The music that they were into, everything,it just, I fell right in love with it.
That's when I knew I found home,you know, and I met the people.

(05:07):
There was a guy named BobSleppy, who's the director of it.
He took me under his wing andI just took it from there.
I moved up here to, Nashville, and Iwas looking for a place like Nuçi Space.
They didn't have one.
I got sober.
I reached out to Bob.
I said, Bob, can we open up aNuçi Space here in Nashville?
And he goes, why don'tyou open up your own?
He goes, we're gonna guide you.
We're gonna support you,we're gonna mentor you.

(05:28):
We're gonna give you the resources, we'regonna help you, but let's make it yours.
So that's when I decided,okay, we're gonna call it
David's Den after my brother.
What is my brother like?
He really wasn't into musicas much as I was, but he liked
woodworking, crafts, stuff like that.
We wanted to make some place thatwould relate to him to, and that's
where, came into, what's calledThe Forge, what we're into today.

Larry (05:48):
The Forge.

Alex Chont (05:49):
The Forge, that's where we're at now.
We partnered up with them beforethen, it was called Fort Houston.
one of the founding members of David'sDen, his name is Jeff Estes, one
of my closest and dearest friends.
He is one of the co-founders, of FortHouston, which is now, The Forge.
We said we needed a home,and so this is our home.
It's a great place because we wannahelp musicians but there's also a
whole nother community of creatorsthat can come in here and do their

(06:10):
art, do woodworking, do metal.
It's a big giant safe placewhere we all come and hang
out and do what we want to do.
That's kind of whereDavid's Den oriented from.
I wanted to have a safe place afterNuçi Space in that way, and here we are.
And with Nashville there was a ton ofresource centers, but it wasn't nothing
towards Musicians or The Creatives, whichtotally was, I thought was crazy, But
here we are, just took off from there.

(06:32):
I met, Josh through oneof our close friends.
His name is Matt Jaggers.
he played in a band calledUberphonics, and Josh was playing
with his band Natchez Tracers.
That's how we got introduced andit's been a friendship ever since.
Josh has been a great volunteer of ours.
He's been my right handman for a long time.
Anytime I needed help, he's been thereto help, with great ideas and support.

Larry (06:50):
That's pretty amazing.
You would think that in a town of allthis creativity, there would be a lot
of Mental Health issues, and there are.
And we know this.
David's Den helps to address all this.
Josh, hello.

Hey, how are you?

Larry (07:03):
I knew of you way before I actually knew you, and then we've met a few times.
You're a singer songwriter.
You're an artist of your own right.
And so what drew you to theMental Health aspect of your life?

We
did get introduced through Uberphonics when Natchez Tracers we were
doing shows together immediatelyDavid's Den call and mission
resonated with me because I knewabout Nuçi Space, I was a Widespread
Panic and Drive by Truckers fan.
Kind of on the peripheralof their world as an artist.
Looking at them as big brothers for
influence, you know, musically,operationally, all the
things they do creatively.

(07:35):
And I knew how big supporters theywere of that organization in Athens.
When Alex and I met, Iwas immediately, Inspired.

Larry (07:41):
Mm-hmm.

And also that we're doing it here in Nashville.
With my own issues within my lifeof having family members that have
committed suicide or having friends.
it just resonated with me.
This is something thatis close to my heart.
I think we hit it off as humans.
Anything I can do to help and assist inhelping people who are struggling get to
a place where they can understand there'scommunity and people they can talk to.

(08:06):
There's no shame incommunicating your struggle.
And I think That, that resonates with me.
That idea.
No shame in communicating your struggle.

Alex Chont (08:14):
Me and Josh, even though we've only known each
other well, since 2015, 16.
it's been 10 years.

It's getting there.

Alex Chont (08:19):
Our lives are very parallel and we talk about
our past and our struggles.
It's all very familiar.
I don't, wanna put too much aboutJosh's stuff out here, but whether,
if it was our family life, howour mothers and fathers were.
Our struggles with so many differentthings that we both went through.
It's funny we said, oh, well, youknow, we'll talk about something
and say, I went through that too.
Or I understand that because theperson in my life was just as well.

(08:41):
So I think on that we can relate a lot.
And it, helped that connection.
And it grew.
I mean, obviously he's a volunteer and hehelps out with David's Den, but more than
that, he's a very good friend of mine.
And, a lot of that is bonded over theissues and the things that we have.
And we were able to talkand understand each other.
I think that's been a big help in our
relationship to.

I agree.

Larry (09:00):
You guys, we're about the same age.
We're early fifties.
I'm the oldest.
I'm 53.
Alex, you are 50.

Alex Chont (09:05):
51

51.

Larry (09:06):
You're both 51.
So Alex, when David took his own life,how old were you and how old was he?

Alex Chont (09:11):
David was 13 and, I am nine years older than David.
So that would've put me at early 20's.

Larry (09:19):
Would you mind explaining the story?

Alex Chont (09:21):
Well, on that day I was in town visiting.
I, say visiting, but I wasthere for a couple weeks.
I came back home, to OhioI was at my mom's house.
David just came home from school and weused to razz him, you know, as a sibling.
I mean, his feet stunk all the time.
He had, he had bad, badfelling smeet and he

Larry (09:41):
Bad smelling feet.

Alex Chont (09:42):
Yeah.
some people have it, you know, and oh,He, you know, and he took off his shoes,
it just stunk up it just what it was.
And so, you know, he camehome took his shoes off and
I was razzing about his feet.
He went upstairs and shot himself.
And, um, that was, uh, that, that was,a really tough day because, my mom
was in the basement doing laundry.

(10:04):
And me and my sister ran upstairs.
And when we got up there, obviously,you know, I was, you know, in shock.
We went upstairs.
I,
Uh,
trying to, trying to put his headback to, he's trying to put pieces of,
trying to put his head back together.
Um.
And my sister was trying to holdthe door so his mom wouldn't

(10:30):
come in and see him like that.
That was a real tough day.
That's what happened.
I wasn't able, wasn't ableto piece it back together.
It was a bad day and I seen whatit did to my mom, what it did
to my sister, what it did to me.
And, yeah, obviously it sent medown a horrible spiraling path.

(10:50):
That wasn't the day that I got sober.
I would say that was the daythat I probably induced more
and drank and drugged more.
And, And it just went, it spiraled outfrom there, I mean, there was a lot to
that because that was supposed to be me.
That was supposed to be me.
I tried to hang myselfbefore, the rope broke.
I tried to shoot myself.

(11:11):
The gun didn't go off.

Larry (11:12):
This was before?

Alex Chont (11:13):
Yeah, this was before.

Larry (11:13):
Before your brother.

Alex Chont (11:14):
Yeah.
my very first attempt at suicide, I wasan adolescent, probably eight or nine.
I tried to hang myself.
And then I got put intodifferent hospitals.
Another time I was probably 12or 13, I tried to shoot myself.
The gun didn't go off thank God..
It clicked, but it didn't, probablyif I would've had more experience
with a, gun, I probably would'veknown more what I was doing.
Try to take pills, tryto OD myself, crash cars.

(11:37):
You know, and we would just go,run off onto a ditch, drunk.
You know, on a Death wish.
We would just do stupid stuff, do as muchdrugs and alcohol as I couldn't care.
You know, that was supposed to be my life.
But then, like I said, I, couldn't,go down that anymore, because I
just, I seen what it did to my mom.
My mom is a completely differentperson than what she's today.
I swear she went gray right after that.

(11:58):
The next day it seemedlike she was gray hair.
So moving forward from that, I seensuicide very up upfront and close.
And, like I said, I justcouldn't do that anymore.
I, wasn't, wasn't part of the plan, so itwas bouncing through, what am I gonna do?
How are we gonna do this?
And eventually, as I got sober,that's when all this stuff

(12:18):
really started happening for me.
I was out back one day.
I mean, I was pounding, you know, I woulddrink a fifth of whiskey a day, and I
remember I was out in my yard, I wasgrilling some ribs, of course, all day And
I fell, down and I couldn't get back up.
I was laying in dog shit.
Wife comes out.
"Are you still having a good time?"
"No, I'm not."

Larry (12:37):
And you were married at this point?

Alex Chont (12:38):
Yeah.
I was married.
Let me just jump backfrom that suicide point.
After that, it was a wildstring of living in my van.
Going from city to city to city,to city to city to city to city.
That's all that I did.
My home was my van.
As far as like with money,I would pitch for dollars.
I would, Hey, check it out, I'm tryingto get home, I ran myself short.
Can you help me out?
A few bucks, whatever that was.
I didn't care.

(12:59):
I ended up in Atlanta.
I met a gentleman bythe name of Tim Craig.
I was out trying to hustle dollarsand he gave me his card and said,
if you really wanna make somemoney, come back and talk to me.
I was in some weakness or neededsome money, whatever that was,
and I went and I seen him.
He gave me a box of perfume and cologne,said, go out on the street and sell 'em.
He said, I'm gonna hold yourmountain bike for collateral.
I thought, wow, go out and sell it.
I said, well, I've been selling stories.

(13:19):
This ought to be easy.
I got a product.
He said, well, it's not that easy.
I went out and sold all six bottles.
I came back, he goes,you sold all six bottles?
I said, yeah, I showed him the money.
So then he, said, I wantyou to come back tomorrow.
Next time he put me in his van.
Now I'm out with these guys andwe're selling like unbreakable
glasses, cue sticks, juststuff like that out of the van.
He took me under his wingand I worked my way up.
I did really well at that.

(13:39):
They call 'em pyramid schemes, butI don't know if they're really a
pyramid or not, because if you put inthe work and find the right people,
I was really successful at it.
Things happened in that business thatprobably shouldn't have, some taxes
didn't get paid and stuff like that.
We got shut down.
I went back to Ohio for a littlebit regrouped and, met a beautiful
woman up there at a bar at the time.
And, uh, That was my future wife.

(14:00):
We hit it off.
Let's get the hell out of Ohio.
Moved down to Nashville.
I was still drinking at that time.
I moved down here, got into cellphone business, worked through
that, did some other stuff.
Just a drunk and an alcoholic and adrug addict trying to figure out my way.
One day I've had enough, I got sober.
And that's when I startedputting my plan in motion.
I finally got a clear headand started realizing, okay,

(14:21):
this is what I need to do.
I reached out to Bob at Nuçi Space.
I said, Bob, I'm sober now.
I'm ready to get busy.
He said, let's work on yourself first.
So I had to get a few years underneath me.
I'm 13 years clean now.
I had to work on myself first, AndOnce I got to a good, stable place
that I could help others becauseat that point, I still wasn't able.
So that's kind of where we're at.
I got sober.
I went to work.
My head got clean.
I found a good way of living.

(14:43):
I found out that I reallywanted to help people.
I wanted to honor my brother, andI wanted to show my family, that
I wasn't, a degenerate, had sometalents and I had some things.
I just had to find the right path.

Larry (14:53):
You had integrity.
You do have integrity.
Thank for sharing.

Alex Chont (14:56):
I kind of ramble and I kind of bounce all over.
I'm not very good at allthis, but I do appreciate
it, listening.

Larry (15:01):
Absolutely.
I'm very good at all this.
Who is good at any of
this?
Josh?
Are are at any of this?
I suffer from depression.
I just celebrated threeyears of, no booze.
This week happens to be also the 23rdanniversary of my mother's passing.
She was a very depressed person.
She had a life that didn't turn outthe way she wanted it to turn out.

(15:21):
Divorce.
My dad was a terrible dad.
He cheated on her, and he justpartied and, he wasn't there.
He'd never showed up, didn'tshow up for any of us or for her.

I never knew my father.

Larry (15:31):
You never knew your dad.
So Josh, let's get intoa little bit about you.

Well, if it's story time,
I was born at Vanderbilt,here in Nashville in 74.
My grandfather Bill, fought in the war.
He was in sales in printing.
He moved the family down herefrom up in New York, outside the
city in 1970, I think it was.
My mom and her four sistersand brother moved down here.
He was as many men from that generation,wasn't always good to his wife.
He was always a traveling salesman.

(15:56):
I think that was intentional.

Larry (15:56):
Papa Was a Rollin' Stone.

You Got
it.
There's songs about it.
one of the ones we all know.
My grandmother, Joan wasdefinitely the matriarch of the
family and they moved down here.
My mother's in her young twenties,her and her sisters all kind
of playing around Music Row.
You know, involved in theindustry a little bit back then.
She met a guy, from Texas, comingto Nashville to be a songwriter.
He wasn't good.
I've heard some of hismusic, it's not good.
so he didn't make it.

(16:18):
My father sired multiple otherchildren around the country.
We've all since connected I never gotto connect with him before he passed,
in Nashville, in '97 when I just gotback from college, from Knoxville.
But I never knew him.
He, bolted before I was one.
My mother was pretty good for afew years, and then we moved up
to Boston and DC for a hot minute.
I was born here though.
she was Manic depressive.

(16:39):
She was bipolar.
So kindergarten,

Larry (16:41):
Did she know that she was depressed?
That she was manic depressive?

By then we were starting to get a clue.
The first time she dropped meoff back at the family here
in Nashville was kindergarten.
I think she had another man that shehad a relationship, didn't go well.
So I ended up back here anddid kindergarten in Nashville.
this would've been '79 or '80.
She got her stuff together andthen she moved to California.
Following her hippie dream super late.
She moved to Berkeley when Iwas about to start first grade.

(17:05):
The family thought she was okay.
Thought she was good
enough.
So they ship me back out there.
So I go there.
I land in California,she's living in Berkeley.
Next door to her, was a guy named Jöb.
He was a Dutch wood makerand he had two daughters.
And then my mother and him had an affair.
he was recently divorced.
There was a child from that andhe didn't want any involvement.
So now my mother has me, who's about startfirst grade and this new child on the way.

(17:27):
So we moved across the Bay,to, Coal Valley, which is
adjacent to Haight Ashbury.
They're conjoined neighborhoods,
if you've ever been to San Francisco.
We lived in this flat, Iremember we had one bed.
She had a Murphy bed.
There was only one bedroom.
There was a living room where I had mymakeshift bedroom there's a kitchen.
she was about to have thisother baby I started at St.
Agnes, Parochial School on Ashbury.
So 710 Ashbury, the Grateful DeadHouse was at the bottom of the block.

(17:49):
Five houses up across the streetwas my elementary school, St.
Agnes.
I was a latchkey kid.
Guys our age, you knowwhat that term means?

Larry (17:55):
Go

ahead Latchkey kid was, whether your parents were together
or not the way life was in thelate seventies and early eighties.
A lot of us would get offschool and have to go home
before the parents got home from
work.
We'd have to let ourselves in.
Latchkey is you had to let yourselfin with the key into the house.
And then you did whateveruntil the parents got home.
It's a miracle three of us are sittinghere right now even from that time
period, much less what came later.

(18:16):
So my mother was good for years.
She had the baby, she wasworking at Macy's in marketing.
I kind of was a childhoodmodel for a little bit.
There's pictures out there,it's funny, it's comical.
And then a few years later, before Istarted fifth grade, September was coming.
I didn't go back to schooland we lost the apartment.
Now we're living closer to the Haight,in the Panhandle area, which is
the park right next to Golden Gate,with maybe her friend slash dealer.

(18:37):
School didn't start and acouple weeks went by and
then

Larry (18:40):
Well, School started,
you just didn't go to school.
School was happening.

School was happening, but not for me.
There was enough money and I was theonly grand child amongst the sisters
that time, so I was a spoiled kid.
They would scrape enough money,I'd fly back and forth, get the
Captain's wings, meet the pilot.
But this time me and my little halfbrother and her, took a Greyhound
from San Francisco to Nashville.
I remember in Albuquerque, she was sobroke, we shared macaroni and cheese.

(19:03):
Albuquerque is still New Mexico,we're not even close to Nashville.
We get there on like aFriday, if I remember,
and
then by Sunday or Monday, shewent back with my half brother.
I was in Nashville.
So much of my family's now deceased,I don't know the real truth there,
and it doesn't really matter atthis point anymore, but either
she abandoned me or they saved me.
But I had loving people.
Her mother was very kind.
She was known as Ma Howe, like in theneighborhood growing up here off West End.

(19:26):
She was loved, she was nurturing.
She had a hard life,but she really did well.
And she made you feel loved.
And my mother's sisters, they savedme, they collectively saved me.
I lived here for the rest of the time.
My mother disappeared for years.
I didn't see her again until what wassoon to be Catherine, my wife, in '99.
We go out there, see her in Californiaone night and she had already
gotten remarried, had another kid.
We see her one
night and she ups and moves those twochildren, one of which my half little

(19:48):
brother from all the years back all theway across the country to Nashville.
Both of her parents had already died.
Two of her sisters had died.
She never came back for their funerals.
But one night for me being theretwo months later, she up roots them
and moves them 2000 miles away.
She was crazy, because she was sick.
She gets back here,wants to rule the roost.
We've all made our lives.
I'm about to get married.
I'm like, you can have aplace in my life, Patty.

(20:09):
Yeah Patricia.
But there are rules andthere are boundaries I've
learned to get on without you.
I'm building a life and if you wannahave a part in it, you have to just kind
of play by where I'm building my life.
She didn't.
There was one time she flew offa handle and just went crazy.
Yelling, screaming at the phoneabout my, wife that she didn't
even know said awful sins.
I said, you know what Patty?
We're done.
And within the next 10 months,she drank herself to Death.

(20:32):
She died two months before me and my wifeCatherine had our first child in 200 2
About the
same time your mother
also passed same time period.
I'm gonna end this little part ofthe story it's gonna sound horrible.
For me and my family, who I'vebeen married 25 years now my
children are now in college.
My mother not being in our lifewas the best thing that could
have happened to my family.

(20:53):
Because we would've had to workwith her instability because she
wasn't willing to do the work forherself to have a place in our lives.
I hate saying that, but there has tobe responsibility, accountability.
We have to do the thingsthat we learn, techniques.
We have to listen to peoplethat are steering us clear.
And she didn't.
That's the long story of kind of my directvisceral contact with mental illness.

(21:15):
And my father wasdefinitely not well either.
there's stories, I'm surethere too, but didn't know him.
I knew her though.

Alex Chont (21:20):
I was talking earlier about where me and Josh relate because,
I didn't know my father either.
My real father, didn'tgive a crap about me.
He never met me, didn't careabout me or anything like that.
And, so I grew up likethe same, same thing.
And then like with Josh, with hismother, my mother wasn't in my life
until I was, almost 10 years old.
I was staying with my grandparents.
She'd bounce in and out with some man,grab me, we'd go down to Medina or

(21:40):
somewhere and then that wouldn't go right.
And then I'd be backat my grandparents That
went on until, I was like 9 or 10.
And then she came back and all of asudden she's back in my life and she's
taking me away from my grandparentsand moved me out to this other
town with this man I didn't know.
And they're ready to start a family.
David was my half brotherand I always wanted a
brother, cause I didn't know my dad.
And I was told I had olderbrothers and older sister, I've,
recently made contact with them.

(22:01):
So a lot of our, storiesare just, parallel, with
Mental Health in the family.
I've got, Schizophrenia.
We, I had a, cousin named Valerie,and she was Schizophrenic.
She committed suicide.
She jumped out of a five story building.
She had a son, his name is Jeff.
Jeff was conceived in the mental ward.
When she had him before she died, shehad Jeff, the family didn't want Jeff
to, we wanted him to stay in a family.

(22:21):
So my mother adopted Jeff.
He struggles.
He's just, I hate to use the wordShot, but he's in pretty bad shape.
We try to help him and get him inplaces, but he doesn't stay there.
He wanders.
Growing up, we weren'tallowed to talk about
Valerie.
Oh yeah.
We weren't allowed to talkabout any of that, none of it.
They would've rather talked about,anything but Mental Health in our family.
And then you look back at it and I lookat my cousins there's a whole trait of

(22:44):
us, that struggle some way or another.
But, the elders in our family,was like, you don't talk about it.
And where we're at today, wecan have these conversations.
As grown men, we can dothat and talk about it.
I don't wanna bounce all over theplace too much, but, you know, as
middle-aged men, I mean, I struggle a lot.
I've been doing this for a while nowand been around this a long time.
And I
thought it would be a lot ofyouth that I would be helping.

(23:04):
And there is a lot of youth that comesand needs help, but I find it more and
more middle-aged men that are comingasking for help, that need help.
Or maybe even not them, it'sa family member reaching out.
I think there's a real epidemicof middle-aged men struggling,
don't know where to go, don'tknow where their future is.
I go through it myself.
I can remember when I was 35, 25,whatever, when I was younger, I could

(23:24):
just eat nails I could fuck all night.
Do all the man shit you wanted to.
As I get older, guess what?
I can't do all that man shit as I used to.
I don't fuck all night, I can't doall that stuff that I used to do.
It just doesn't work.
You struggle with those, you know, maybethat five gallon a bucket that I used
to grab a water, instead of one hand,
now I gotta use two.
All these things, you startquestioning yourself, why am I here?

(23:45):
What am I doing?
Where's my future?
What am I going to provide?

Ageism, to middle aged men.

Alex Chont (23:50):
And you go from being the leader, being THAT person, you know?
All of a sudden you don't havethose things that you thought
were important to you at one time.
Or you wondering, where'sthis, where am I at?
Where am I going?
What do I got to contribute now?
I'm older, I can't dothis, I can't do that.
What's the point?

Larry (24:05):
"True wisdom and compassion are born from touching, real suffering."
That's Thich Nhat Hanh, BuddhistMonk, Poet, and Zen Master.
He said that, in his bookAnger page 1 61, by the way.
This is a conversation that I thinkwe need to continue to explore.
We are middle aged men and I'm soappreciative of your stories and that
you're right, there's a lot of suffering.

(24:26):
You thought you were gonna getinto this work when you had clarity
and you were able to share yourexperience and open up doors.
And what you find is, there are peoplejust like yourself, your age, my age,
coming in and saying What happened?,
What The Hell Happened?
I have changed my completelife in the last five years.
I gave up the booze three years ago.

(24:46):
I quit my gig that I was touring with.
My dreams didn't come true.
My dreams, who I thought I was tobe, I was trying to be something.
I was trying to be Somebody.
I spent a whole life becoming Somebody.
Right?
I'm Somebody!
Ram Das
talks about it a lot and I love says.
We spend our lives in
somebody training.

(25:06):
Baba Ram Das, Somebody training.
And you realize, you get to a pointand you say, well, what's my purpose?
I'm not the same, and we grow.
But am I evolving?
Evolving.
I know I'm better than I was because I'mclearer than was, but I'm afraid to dream.
I woke up in a panic.
I wake up in a panic less now thana few years ago, but I said, wow, my

(25:26):
career is nowhere near what I thought.
I was gonna be A Big Rockstar.
A Big Rockstar.
I got great songs, I got great band..
I'm great at what I do.
Right?
People love what I do.
And then I'm like, wow, I'm stillnot making a living at this.
Or when I was making aliving at it, I was a mess.
I was a complete alcoholic, drugs.
Before I met my wife, I was, cheatingon every woman I'd ever been with.

(25:47):
Terrible human being.
I've been married 10 years.
I love my wife.
I mean, it's, never easy, right?
What is?
But I have commitments to myself.
And I think that's partof this, is that we
reengage in a commitment intoourselves, that I think is
very, very important to do.
You started your work becauseof the death of your brother.
I'm realizing now thatI'm honoring my mother.

(26:07):
She had to, deal with a divorcegoing back to school and raising three
kids and none of her life worked out.
And then she had cancer, and thenshe was bald and had no teeth not
much of a life at all, and lived for12 more years in a sad, sad state.
I would be at work as a singing waiterat a steakhouse in New York City.

(26:28):
The phone would ring and it'd belike, Larry, it's your mother.
And I would get on the phone and she'dbe like, Larry, I'm on the floor.
I was like, oh my God.
What do you mean you're on floor?
I'm on the floor.
I'm like, what do youmean you're on the floor?
How long have you been on the floor?
I don't know.
About four hours I fell, andthen I've been crawling and
I finally got to the phone.

(26:50):
I'm in Manhattan.
My mother's in Queens.
I have to leave.
I can't work.
Obviously, I'm outta here.
And it's a subway ride.
It's still another hour and a half to findmy mother sitting in her own shit and piss
and just feels terrible about everything.
She's depressed, she's sad,and she ultimately died,
not a very happy person.
And I'm honoring her by sittinghere and talking with you guys

(27:12):
because this is what's important.
These are the conversationsthat we need to have.
We're so shamed into not being vulnerable.
We grow up thinking, like yousaid, I'm a man and I can do this
all these hours and this and that.
And, I think to, what my dad taught me?
You know, "Man", he taughtme to cheat on every woman.
Look out for yourself.
Screw everybody else.

(27:32):
Take care of yourself, man."
I'm like, yeah, you did a goodjob taking care of yourself.
I love my dad.
And we have a good relationship.
But man, I wasn't honoring my own heart.
I wasn't honoring thevulnerability deep inside.
"Vulnerability is the birthplaceof love, belonging, joy,
courage, empathy and creativity.
It is the source of hope, empathy,accountability and authenticity.

(27:56):
If we want greater clarity in our purposeor deeper and more meaningful spiritual
lives, vulnerability is the path."
That's Brené Brown in Daring Greatly.
"Courage starts with showing upand letting ourselves be seen."
Again, Brené Brown, my hero.
This is a courageous act, sharing yourstory, and I really do appreciate it.

(28:24):
My guests today, AlexChont from David's Den.
And
Josh Womack, singer, songwriter,and advocate for Mental Health.
Thank you so much forbeing here, both of you.
This is a very heavyand deep conversation.
So there might be some triggers here,if you or anybody you know are suffering
from Mental Illness and thoughtsof Suicide please call 9 8 8.

(28:45):
If you need help, you can also callthe National Suicide Prevention
Hotline at 1 800-2 7 3-8 2 5 5.
I wanna talk about Mental Health,and I want to talk about what it
is that you provide, David's Den.
What is David's Den?
The mission of David's Den.
Alex, what is it that you do day inand day out for those of us in need?
Now
I suffer from Mental Health issues.

(29:07):
I, maybe it is Mental Illnessand I'm very much sad.
I'm very much depressed.
I'm very much wanting tonot be around anybody.
I've had suicidal thoughts forsure, and I am living in Nashville.
I'm looking for an outlet, what do I do?

Alex Chont (29:22):
If you found out about us, you, if you stumbled upon us, whether
it was on the internet or somebody toldyou about us or however you came across
this the first thing is make the call.
Whether it's yourself or somebody else.
And then what we try to do is we try toset up somewhere on a, in a neutral place.
If they wanna go grab a cup ofcoffee somewhere where they feel
comfortable and then we just goand we meet and we just talk.
I like to go out, you, myself I usuallytake Jeff or somebody along with me that

(29:43):
goes or maybe Chelsea, she's one of ourcounselors and she'll go along with us.
And we just sit and talk.
Grab a cup of coffee, Hey, how you doing?
This is what we do, where you're at?
Nothing heavy, unlessthey want to go there.
But it's really more of anintroduction to let them know
we're here and this is what we do.
Some of the services, you know,what I do is I try to explain
a little bit about myself.
I tell them, Hey, one of my biggestissues, I think, when I was trying

(30:04):
to open up to people, or what Ifound is that if I told too much, I.
they were gonna lock me up.
Somebody was gonna put me awayin the hospital or they were
gonna do something like this.
And I was always afraid to really, tobe totally honest with that person.
And the other part I shouldsay, is the relatability.
'Cause if I'm sitting with somebody andI'm trying to talk with them and I can't
relate with them, whether if they, maybethey haven't tried to commit suicide.

(30:26):
All these little thingsthat, relatable to me.
So when I'm sitting with you,the two things that I want that
person to know is that, I struggle.
I struggle every day.
I'm in it.
I'm not a certified counselor in any way.
I'm just a guy that's been throughthe wringer and is here to help.
They know that I am somebody thathas had a shotgun in his mouth.
Yeah.
I'm also somebody that you can tell meI'm not gonna go run and tell anybody.

(30:48):
This is our secret.
Now, Obviously, if there's somethingthat, Hey, I'm gonna go hurt myself in 20.
Yeah.
Okay.
But I want that person toknow they're safe with me.
That's kind of where I openthat conversation that, You
can tell me whatever you want.
I'm not gonna go run, tell anybody.
This is between me and you, and Iwant that to open up, and there's a
trust factor that has to start there.
And that trust with me is openingup to them, telling my story

(31:09):
where I came from, what I do.
All the hardships that I have andwhere I'm at, how I'm still struggling.
Yeah.
And I try to make that relatable.
And then from there maybe invitingthem to go to a concert or doing
something, just trying to get things out.
Maybe bring along Josh, some otherpeople that are part of David's
Den so they can all say, Oh, okay.
I'm seeing this group.
I'm digging it a little bit.
Then, we uh, offeredseveral different things.

(31:29):
If you need a counselor, we can getyou several different counselors.
If you wanted to go more a traditionalroute, we can go with Centerstone.
We work with them if you want to do more,holistic we work with Rolling Hills.
If you want to do something more outof the box, hypnosis, we do that too.
So there's no excuse of I don'tlike this because of that.
We'll give you anyoption to get out there.
'Cause I understand the old square box andround hole and all that, kind of thing.

(31:51):
But we wanna make sure there's somethingout there that person can relate to.
So if you wanted acounseling we can do that.
If let's say if they're strugglingwith maybe some, they their eyesight
or their teeth and they haven't seena doctor or something like that.
What we do is we will get you adoctor's appointment or an eye,
whatever that it is, Uhhuh, andwe'll get you set up with that.
But part of the deal is that we haveto get you on some type of insurance,

(32:12):
and sometimes that wall is just, oh,it's, it just seems I can't do that.
It's so complicated.
I don't even know where to begin.
So we work with MusicCity Health Advisors.
They're really geared towards musiciansand creatives and finding all the little
loopholes and all the good things youneed in your insurance without having to
have all this other stuff to pay for it.
So we'll send 'em down and they'll go talkwith Lauren and her people down there.

(32:33):
We'll find a package for them, andthen maybe they don't have the money.
So what we'll do iswe'll subsidize the cost.
And we'll pay for their insurance to makesure that, they have insurance so they can
get their teeth fixed, they can get theirglasses, they can get their checkups and
start working on themselves a little bit.
So we offer that.
And then like where we're at today,we offer a safe place where they can
come and if they want to be creative.
Maybe they wanna start a project,they can come in here and we can

(32:55):
start making a cutting board or anytype of thing that they wanted to do.
We've got volunteers that can help 'emcome into our facility and work, Do
different projects, it's a safe place.
We've got a wood shop.
We've got a metal shop.
They wanna come do that.
We can do art here.
We've got all kinds of stuffhere at The Forge that people
can work and do stuff with.
When people come in here, they'relike, oh, so amazed and is blown away.
But this is all shiny bells and whistles.

(33:17):
All this is really just to get yourattention and gets you in here.
Once you get in here, then it's reallyabout partnering up with people.
When you're working on a project,you really don't know what's
going on, but we're really doingsome Juujitsu on your mind.
We're working on you, youdon't even realize it because
we're creating a fellowship.
You're starting to get a baseof people that are around you.
A good support group.

Larry (33:34):
Community!

Alex Chont (33:35):
Community.

Larry (33:35):
A Sangha!

Alex Chont (33:36):
Fellowship.
Exactly.
And that's where the Community comes in.
Yeah.
Then you start growing.
They start realizing, like Idid when I was at Nuçi Space.
Wow.
There's people just like me thatare here that I can relate to.
I can hang out, I can talk with it.
I can go and listen I can doall the stuff that I wanna do.
It was with the same,people that understand it.
And if I'm struggling, sometimes they willknow it without me having to say anything.

(33:57):
I'm safe with them and I feel good,I can have those conversations.
And that's what starts openingup and it, works from there.
It's fascinating to see becauseyou see people that just came in,
they don't know, really know whatthey're doing, what's going on.
And then all of a sudden here,next thing you know, they're
volunteering, they're here.
They're wanting to help out.

Larry (34:12):
Serving.

Alex Chont (34:12):
Exactly.
And it's helping them and return.

Larry (34:15):
Yeah.
Love, Serve and Remember.

Alex Chont (34:16):
That's perfect.

Larry (34:17):
Isn't that it?
That's not mine.
I think that what you're able to dois be a listener and you're creating
the space for somebody to say, okay.
I'm thinking about the scariest stuffever, and there's shame involved.
And what does Brené Browntalk about with shame?
Shame needs three things to growout of control in our lives:
Secrecy, Silence and Judgment.

(34:38):
And it loses its powerif we speak about it.
If we Just Keep Talking, right?
There's a difference between, Idid something bad and I am bad.
And courage.
Vulnerability takes courage.
Being Vulnerable is the mostcourageous thing we can do.
I'm so sick and tired of hearing partof this Country, and we're not gonna go
into politics right now, but when I hearpeople saying being Vulnerable is weak,

(35:03):
no way, man.
No way.
No way.
No way.
I've interviewed Veterans, Creative Vetsis an organization that does similar
to what you do here at David's Den.
They offer creative outlets toVeterans so that they do not
pull the trigger on themselves.
And I sat with the exact sameconversation with a Veteran and
he said, I had a gun in my mouth.

(35:24):
And I did not do it for that hourbecause a friend called me and said,
let's come to this Creative Vets, andwhy don't you come and do some painting?
And he said, all right, I'lljust pick the gun later.
And he ended up not doing that.
And it's a long time later and he isserving other people to be Vulnerable.
This Veteran said to me, thisis a guy that's killed people.

(35:44):
He said, Vulnerability is the greateststrength that I have ever had.
I could never be in the ArmedForces if I was not Vulnerable.
Vulnerability is courage.
And courage starts with showingup and letting ourselves be seen,
I so love the fact that you'reable to just tell your story.
You're not certified.

(36:05):
I'm not certified.
But when I drop my wife off on a privateplane to go on tour with Steven Tyler
knowing that I'm gonna turn around afterthey go, Larry, you should come with us!
And I'm like, yeah, that would be great.
And I walk by all the beautiful foodand all the wonderful accoutrements
of a private plane and then I go.
And I get in my car to go serve food andwine at an event as a caterer, and I'm

(36:30):
not playing music, I wanna close my eyes.
There's a certain area on EllingtonParkway in Nashville, Tennessee,
and every time I drive through thisarea, there's a part of me that says,
if you just close your eyes, hey,
no problem.
Whether you die or you don'tdie, Larry, you're just not gonna
have to deal with any of this.
And that's kind of where my head is.
I just say, it's not worth it.

(36:51):
My life is not the way I want it to be.
You're not who you think youwere supposed to be, right?
Let go of who you think you're supposedto be, Larry and embrace who you are.
But that's a hard thing to do.
And when I'm walking throughthis place, The Forge.
I'm seeing creative, I'm seeing passion.
I'm seeing compassion.
I'm seeing love.
And you're right, when we're in herejust working, you're doing the magic

(37:14):
because it's the magic of Community.
People are so alone.
There are people our age in our early tomid fifties that are so alone and beyond.
Every age, Man, Woman, Gay,Straight, All Colors, We All Suffer.
But we're not, able tocommunicate these things.
We're not able to just go have a cupof coffee with a friend like you, Josh,
or like you Alex, and say, man, I'mdown, man, because we're too afraid.

(37:37):
We don't feel safe to share these things.
And as men.
As men, the things that Ilearned growing up as a man?
My mother was a bleeding heartliberal as they come, and helped and
served and gave and was beautiful.
And she died too young.
And she was bitter becauselife really didn't pan out.
Cancer took her love and joy.
My father being a cheating,terrible husband and father.

(38:00):
Terrible, took her joy away,and she died miserable.
I know she did.
And so, Service and Love andRemembering that we are more
than those little moments.
More than just the little moments.
It's cloudy.
It's cloudy a lot of the time, man.
But the stars are above.
There is Blue Sky above eachand every one of these clouds.

(38:23):
And the clouds are real.
And I get that the clouds are real.
They are.
But you're not alone and thankyou for being who you are.
Thank you for having David's Den andI'm so sorry that you had to suffer
through all of this to get to thispoint, but isn't that the magic of life?
We didn't expect to be here in thisspace right here that you created.
We didn't expect to be here.

(38:43):
Josh, you're an amazing singersongwriter, I never knew your story.
I know your story a little bitbetter now, and you take your
suffering and you turn it into love.
Thanks for letting me ramble.

Alex Chont (38:53):
That was great.

My Ellington Parkway was a little bit over a decade ago when I
thought I'd ruined my life for my family.
And
I was living in Franklin and Ihad to take a job in Antioch.
So I was driving back andforth an hour each way.
There's a bridge that goes over theHarpeth River on Old Hillsborough Road.
It's beautiful.
It's a beautiful drive.
The Castle Recording Studioright is right there.
Phish did Rift there.
I would think the same Larry.
Brother Love, I would think I couldjust turn off the bridge right here.

(39:16):
Gun it
and I, there was some life insurancemoney that I'd 'cause I was trying to
do right for my kids to set 'em up.
That they would do better without me.
That relates to Ellington.
One of my best friends from highschool, friend of mine from college,
I talked to him for an hour on Monday.
His newest wife her daughtercommitted suicide in high school
here in Nashville when she was 16.
There's a stone bench in Ellington Park.
For Grace,
They put a bench there.

(39:37):
If you go walk there on the path,right by the little river, by
Seven Springs, the little stream,you'll see Grace's bench there.
I've been struggling with,
I I failed a brother.
So we did a fundraiser for David's Denhere at The Forge on the 7th of December.
It was a holiday cookie exchange.
It was a great night.

(39:57):
And me and this brother of mine and ourother brothers, we had tickets, to see
Drivin N Cryin, down at The Caverns.
What a great place.
Kevin Kenny, what a wonderful songwriter,him and his band are playing down there.
I'd already been warned that oneof our buddies who I raised my kids
with in Franklin, for 20 years.
His wife and mine are best friends.
Our children came up together,we vacationed with them.
We partied with them in the neighborhood.
We did concerts.

(40:18):
He and I almost got in fisticuffs outon Beale Street two years after I met
him 'cause our egos and our, energy.
And he was a musician and a writer, anda deep thinker, and thoughtful human.
I had some of the best conversations.
With my friend about politics,and spirituality life and family.
He was struggling.
We knew he was struggling for about amonth before, I didn't know how bad.
So I get down there, we'rethere Drivin N Cryin, it's, five

(40:39):
of us total.
And they had already let me knowthat our buddy, was hurting.
And so I get there and I'dseen the look in his face.
I'd never seen this look, and I'dseen so many different emotions.
It was a look of fear and confusion.
I'd never ever seen that fromthis friend that I know, and
we almost lost our friendship.
We had a fallen out, but we madeit back three or four years ago and
we decided that life's too short.
and We loved each other, so we weregood, but he wasn't good and I knew it.

(41:03):
And.
they "Scarred But Smarter" is this,it was early record Drivin N Cryin,
I think their first and they hada song called Scarred But Smarter.
If we're Scarred, don't wewant to grow to be Smarter?
It's this raging punk song.
My friend and I, we shared this togethera love for this and they started playing
it and I grabbed him and I grabbedhim like, I'm grabbing Alex right now.
I was like, man, they're playing it bro!
I'm got my fist up and doing the.

(41:25):
And there was just no emotion.
We all went to a farmhouseand crashed with the wives.
He and I didn't really talk muchthat night, he went straight to
bed and then the next morning allbreakfast together and he was silent.
And that was the last time I saw him.
And then he got checked in to a facilityhere in Nashville a couple days later.
In my opinion, and I've workedfor those organizations here
in Nashville, they messed up.
'Cause he wasn't sleeping andthey kept waking him up to

(41:48):
make sure he wasn't suicidal.
But I'm like, he's suicidal'cause he's not sleeping.
He gets back.
I texted his wife and she'sbusy, It was like a Thursday,
and she didn't get back to me.
I love her.
I didn't expect it, was just like,let me know when I can go talk to him.
And the next morning, one ofour other friends calls me at
7:30 and he had killed himself.
We were so close.

(42:10):
The guilt that I have for notgetting to my friend in time.
We're all going through this together.
It's been an immensely hard,four and a half months.
We just moved his wife intoher new house Monday night.
That was emotional.
That's my struggle right nowas someone who I feel like has
learned some techniques for myself tocombat these things that we suffer from.

(42:34):
Things that have really been toolsthat I've learned and they're
tools I would love to share withanybody that wants to talk about it.
But one of my closest dearest brotherswho we shared so much closeness togther, I
wasn't there for him at the very end, andI feel like we could have gotten to him.
We just needed a little more time,but that just wasn't available to us.
And that's
what I'm working through thatright now is the pain of feeling

(42:56):
like, this stuff is something soimportant to me and my own dearest,
one of my dearest brothers, I failed.
I failed him.

Alex Chont (43:03):
No, you didn't.

But that's the way I feel.

Alex Chont (43:05):
I

know, that's how you feel.
That's how I feel.
Now, the rational part of me, the thinkingJosh, the Sciencey, Smart, Reason Minded
part of me is my buddy, he was suffering,but it wasn't my burden to carry, it
was my burden to be there for him.
And I was, but I thinkour friend lost his mind.
And he went so far that I don't knowwhat we could have done to help him..
One of my other friends, whoI'm not super close with,

(43:27):
reminded me, you can'tbeat yourself up because
he was not this person.
Like the person that did thisisn't the person you knew.
We're trying to piece it together.
I think he definitely struggledwith anxiety, he was taking some
medication for anti-anxiety.
But I
don't think it was like heavy depression.
Brother Love you said something earlier, Idon't know if he felt like he had purpose
anymore, even though he had a beautifulwife who loved him, wonderful life.

(43:48):
He was wealthy, he was fine.
He doesn't have any financial problems.
His children loved him.
You know, maybe, I think in hisprofessional life, he was given a
responsibility above his comfort level.
Started stressing him and hestopped sleeping and then he started
messing with his medications.
Then he started taking other medicationto try to sleep, which I've never taken
an Ambien, but for some people I thinkit's a miracle drug from what I hear.

(44:08):
And that other people, it makes 'emlose their mind and go do crazy stuff.
But I think he was feeling someof that pressure of Where Do I
Fit In The Future Of My Life?
As a 50 some odd year old man like we are.
And that's a real thing out there, guys.
That is a discussion we needto have long and deep on.
Because that's a real thing.
In America right now, and maybe globally,men our age were told we could talk

(44:30):
about our feelings, but do we really?

Larry (44:32):
For sure.

Do we really?

Larry (44:33):
Do we really How about this guys for an idea for a show
called Middle-Aged Man Show?

Yeah.

Alex Chont (44:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like it.

Larry (44:42):
The first time that I even knew what suicide was, I was in second grade.
And I was new to school.
For whatever reason, my mom kept meinto this kindergarten that went into
first grade, second grade I was new.
And being the new kid in secondgrade, everybody made fun of me.
I was just the new kid.
And I remember vividly I was made funof, laughed at, pushed down, and I was

(45:03):
wearing a Jet hat that I'm holding.
I'm showing you guys this.
I'll take a picture.
I was wearing a New York Jets hat.
Now I'm not trying to be funny,but if you're a New York Jets
fan, you should kill yourself.
Okay?

Alex Chont (45:15):
It's gotta be rough.
It

Larry (45:17):
It SUCKS.
Okay,

We're GEN X.
That's dark humor.
We can do that stuff.
Our kids so much.

Larry (45:20):
As dark as it gets guys.
And if you're a Jets fan,you know what I mean.
And if you're not a Jets fan,you still know what I mean.
But I remember walking into thebedroom I'm in second grade and my
dad's asleep, and my mom is readingand I just said, I wanna die.
I mom, I wanna die.
I wanna kill myself.
And
I don't even remember what she said.

(45:41):
What could she have thought?
My firstborn, beautiful little boy
wants to kill himself.
And I remembered how to win.
I remembered how to get out ofthat I remembered talking to
a friend and he was Chinese...
Still is by the way.
And I remember being in sizeorder in school and we were, I
was little and he was littler,

(46:03):
go.

Yeah.

Larry (46:03):
Like Kevin, Larry and Mitchell Zlockower after us.
And I just remember being like,Kevin, I don't understand.
You seem so happy.
He's like, why are you, what's the matter?
We're having this deepconversation second grade.
And I'm like, I'm just depressed.
I don't even know if Iknew the word depressed.
I said, I'm sad and Idon't have any friends.
And he said, Larry, yougotta make 'em laugh.

(46:23):
That's what you gotta do.
You gotta make 'em laugh.
I make 'em laugh.
And I realized later it'scalled a Winning Formula, right?
It was a Formula To Win.
By two years later, theywere all my best friends!
All the people that pushed me down andthat got the girl that I wanted that
didn't, and I wanted to play drums.
Then the popular guy played drums.
I was always so sad.
Aha.
I won.

(46:44):
I made them laugh.
I did the things I was able to figure out.

Found a way.

Larry (46:48):
Found a way.
You know what I didn't do.
Take care of myself.

Take of yourself in that

Larry (46:52):
All I was doing was tap dancing, Proving, Performing,
and Pleasing just to get by.

Yeah.

Larry (46:57):
And so the conversation for a middle aged man to have
this, I'm filled with Hope.
Gentlemen, I'm filled withJoy because this is something
that we need to talk about.
Just Keep Talking about a whole lot more.
And I wanna do more of thisconversation here on out.

It's vital.

Larry (47:13):
It is.

Thank you.
Yeah.
thank you Thank you.
Thank you so much for lettingme talk about my current issue.
Of Feeling like I failed a brother.
That's where I am andI'm struggling with that.
Yeah.

Larry (47:23):
And that is honest and it's vulnerable and it's real.
And this is, for those of you listening,there's three guys sitting around with
tears in their eyes and it's okay.

It's okay

Larry (47:35):
It really is okay, could I have done this 5 years ago or 10 years ago,
sit with two strangers that I barely knowand talk about wanting to kill myself?
And you talking about yourexperiences with suicide and with
your friends and your loved ones.
I don't know any of these people.
I barely know you, so from the bottomof my heart, thank you so much.

Yeah.
thank you.

Alex Chont (47:56):
Yes.

Larry (47:57):
I'm gonna, quote here, Thich Nhat Hanh Zen Buddhist Master.
Again.
"When we act as a communityof practitioners infused with
the energy of mindfulness andcompassion, we are powerful.
When we are part of a spiritualcommunity, we have a lot of joy and
can better resist the temptationto be overwhelmed by despair.
Despair is a greattemptation in our century.

(48:18):
Alone,
we are vulnerable and afraid.
If we try to go to the ocean asa single drop of water, we will
evaporate before we ever arrive.
But if we go as a river, ifwe go as a community, we are
sure to arrive at the ocean."
I feel like part of aCommunity with you, gentlemen.
I really appreciate you very much.

(48:39):
Josh Womack, singer, songwriter,advocate for mental health.
Where do we find you?
Do you got shows coming up?
Just give us a littlecommercial for yourself.
Josh Womack.

I'm doing this monthly thing at Browns, on a Saturday,
once a month from like three to four.
Just me and my songs.
No accompaniment, just me, myvoice, my heart, my songs, guitar.
And then my new band, Turquoise Gate.
We play about once every few months.
We're playing East Side Bowl,coming up on the 31st of May.
The best way to findme is josh womack.com.
That's the way to find me.

Larry (49:06):
Alex Chont, David's Den.
You do so much for so many, how dowe get in touch with you, please?

Alex Chont (49:11):
Yeah you can find us at davids den.org.
If you're on Instagram orFacebook, it's, Davids Den or
Davidsden_nash for Instagram.
You can also reach us out here.
We're at 217 Willow street 37210.
So you can come here and stopin and see me live, Also we
have a few things going on.
June 1st at Brooklyn Bowl, we areteaming up with Sympathy Wrestling.

(49:33):
So we're gonna have a wrestlingevent, which is gonna be really fun.
is gonna be family friendly.
That's gonna be on aSunday again June 1st.
And then we are here at The Den onJuly 19th is gonna be at night, and
it's gonna be a more rock and rollish adult wrestling kind of thing.
So that'll be fun.
And then we're gonna be outat Bonnaroo again this year.
We'll be at the house stage.
We're gonna be putting on some shows.

(49:53):
Josh Womack doesn't know this yet, but.
We'll tell him now he'sgonna be performing.
And we're gonna also give some talks.
We'll have a booth out there so youcan always stop out there and see us.
Or you can get online, get on our website.
We got a lot of stuff happening allthe time just come out and join us.

Larry (50:07):
Thank you so much, David's Den.
If you are in pain if you feel likeyou're going to hurt yourself please,
Suicide Prevention Hotlines 9 8 8.
The National Suicide PreventionHotline is 1 800-2 7 3-8 2 5 5.
You are not alone.
Your story matters.
We need to Just Keep Talking.
I thank you so much for tuning in.
My name is Brother Love.

(50:28):
You can find me and all things JustKeep Talking at, justkeeptalking.com.
Got our website rocking and rolling.
This podcast is on all platforms,everywhere you find your podcasts.
If you enjoy what you'rehearing, Please Subscribe.
You can leave a tip which is another newbeautiful thing thanks to technology.
Thank you so much for tuning intothe Just Keep Talking Podcast.

(50:48):
Again, my name is Brother Love.
Your Story Matters.
Be seen, Be Heard, and Belong.
From my heart to yours.
Thank you.
We'll see you again soon.

Brother Love (50:57):
You can personally support this show simply by clicking
the tip link in the show notes.
The Just Keep Talking podcast is nowavailable on all podcast platforms.
Please like, share, and subscribe.
Visit our website@justkeeptalking.com,
our YouTube channel at Just KeepTalking Podcast and Instagram at
the Just Keep Talking podcast.

(51:18):
We all just want to be seen,to be heard and to belong.
Thank you so much for supporting mymission and the Just Keep Talking
podcast with me, Brother Love.
Until next time.

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