October 31, 2024 • 45 mins
Is turning 50 the new beginning you've been waiting for? Join us as we explore this exciting milestone and the possibilities it brings for personal reinvention and artistic growth. We dive into a lively conversation inspired by our listener, Brittany Clifford, who is contemplating a move from New York's art scene to Miami's vibrant landscape. Learn how to establish a new creative community by attending local gallery openings, connecting with fellow artists, and leveraging the power of social media.
Trusting your instincts is an art in itself, and we reflect on how spontaneity can lead to stunning creations. Inspired by William Blake's wisdom, "First thought is best in art," we recount studio stories where improvisation led to unexpected brilliance, like a serendipitous moment with resin and pink wood shards. We also share a moving encounter with Dana James' painting, underscoring the profound emotional impact and transformative beauty art can hold. This episode shines a light on the works of Dana and Jonathan Todryck, celebrating their artistic journeys and continuous pursuit of innovation.
Gratitude plays an essential role in nurturing creativity, and we draw inspiration from Nietzsche to emphasize its importance in the artistic process. Hear our personal anecdotes on how simple habits like journaling and meditation can foster a positive mindset and clear mental clutter. We'll guide you through the significance of "soul care," offering insights on maintaining creativity amidst life's demands. Whether you’re an artist on a similar journey or someone seeking inspiration, this episode promises a heartfelt discussion on art, gratitude, and the joy of creating.
Check out:
Brittany Clifford's art
Dana James art
Jonathan Todryk's art
Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!
Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:
@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
all right.
So, ty, as we're coming off ofa fairly dense three-part series
on art and fear we werethinking of, that's not loose at
all.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, I don't think it was dense, I think it was
badass you screw it, let's justkeep going.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The whole idea with this was to keep it loose anyway
, like self-editing as we go.
Screw it, yeah, no, so we werejust thinking about, let's be
honest, something that was maybejust a little bit less
preparation than going throughan entire book highlighting our
points, having a detailedoutline.
So this is a new type ofepisode that we're doing.
We're calling this a quickie ora random episode, which is just
(00:57):
a working title.
We'll almost certainly findsomething better than that, but
yeah, so we just wanted to dosomething where we've got some
kind of reoccurring segments.
We're going to get into someQ&A, we're going to talk about
some things that have just kindof caught our attention, that
are inspiring us, and then justshare some takeaways, things
that we've learned from ourpersonal practice and things
that could be potentiallyapplied to others as well.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
But I have a question before we start, since it's
loose.
Yeah, it's just popped into myhead.
So I turned 50 last week.
I think I shared that on thelast episode, I can't remember.
So does that mean I have tolike start over?
Does that mean I need to find anew me for the next 50?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, if you're planning on hitting
triple digits, I would say it'sprobably overdue for you to
reinvent, for you to reinventyourself okay, okay, that's good
to know.
I need to take that into thestudio then and figure some new
things out I mean it will sayfor those of you that aren't
watching us on youtube here uhty is sporting a very fresh
haircut, high and tight, that isdefinitely you know.
(02:00):
It kind of screams like I'm not50 yet.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, Doing my best to not I want to buck the trend
of what happens after 50.
So if I can reverse engineereverything, then I'm going to
move in great directions.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I love that for you.
I mean, you got options too,because you got the full facial
hair menu as well as a marveloushead of hair as well.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, thank you you know menu as well as a marvelous
head of hair as well.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So from a look standpoint, you can reinvent
yourself as often as you'd like.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, maybe I'll move into sculpture and start
getting some clay and doing somebusts.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I think you should.
I think you should do it.
Go back to high school.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
All right, let's jump into the mailbag.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So this is.
We just got one question thatwe're going to dig into today,
but a good reminder, too, for usto remind folks to.
Hey, we love questions, we lovedoing Q&A.
We've done a couple of juststraight up Q&A episodes when we
get enough sort of in the queue, but there's something whether
it be a previous episode,something that you had a
different takeaway or adifferent perspective on things
that you want to throw in, orsomething that you're just
(03:03):
genuinely curious about, orlooking for us to give our A.
Feel free to shoot that to us.
Let's see.
So DM us on Just Make Art onInstagram as well.
As what's the feature, ty,right through the?
Is it just on Spotify thatpeople can do the comments?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I think Spotify allows you to actually ask
specific questions or commentsthrough the platform, but you
can also do it on YouTube aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh yeah, of course.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And then we check those regularly.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yes, we do, all right .
So today's question comes fromBrittany Clifford and I'll just
go ahead and read it.
Brittany writes hey guys, I'm ahuge fan of the pod.
No-transcript, ty.
(04:13):
I'm going to go ahead and tossthis one over to you because I
know that you have helped othersnavigate this more than once
through the program and I'mcurious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, so I met Brittany Clifford through our
great friend, Gianna Tassone.
They were friends in New York,besties in New York and shared.
I know Gianna used Britney'sstudio often when she was in New
York working on stuff too.
And yeah, Britney's got a bigmove.
That is exciting but also nervewracking when you do have a
community in a New York.
(04:39):
Right, this isn't like a smalltown in Nebraska.
She's leaving.
She's leaving the New York artscene.
And it seems like anytime youhave some flow or things are
growing for you in a locationart-wise, then you leave.
You almost have to start over.
You do have to start over.
So when you get to Miami I meanyou know this in New York when
(05:00):
you go out to shows and you goout to things you rub elbows and
you meet people, random people,you see, people you know, and
it's just it's going to be thatyou need to figure out what
galleries you may fit inwork-wise as an emerging painter
and start going to all thoseopenings, get on the mailing
list so you don't miss theopenings and just get out and go
(05:20):
look Instagram searching forhashtags Miami painters, miami
artists, things like that andsee if there's anybody you can
connect with ahead of time.
And also shoot me an email so Ican introduce you to some
friends that I have in Miami aswell that are in the art scene
there.
So definitely shoot me an emailor a message so that I can
connect you to some people whenyou get there.
(05:41):
But that's the big thing Justget out, go network, be busy,
rub elbows, have coffee withpeople and start over Perfect.
I love that I have no follow-upquestions.
Sweet, moving to a new locationis inspiring, I think.
I think it's scary when you dothat, but it's also inspiring
because you're moving into abrand new set of surroundings,
(06:04):
of people, of feelings, ofcultures, locations.
Different places are different,the air is different, so it
brings a whole new height of newideas and new things into the
studio, and I know that'ssomething that you and I are
always trying to captureInspiration in the studio.
How can I get some new thingsthat just feed me, that excite
(06:25):
me, that drive me each time inthe studio?
So I'd love to know if there'sanything that has really jumped
out to you or caught yourattention lately that's been
feeding your practice.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So there was an art documentary that was recommended
to both of us.
I don't know if you watched itor not, did you?
I have not yet, okay, yeah, soour mutual friend and a friend
of the show, a previous guestco-host, eric Breisch,
recommended this documentary tous.
It was, I think it's about fiveyears old I believe it came out
in 2019, but it's calledUnstoppable the Art of
(06:58):
Everything and it's all about it.
Features Sean Scully, featuresSean Scully, and I will begin by
saying that I'm not the biggestfan of his work.
I think it's yeah, whatever, itjust doesn't connect with me.
It doesn't strike me personally, however, and so I actually
told Eric that before I watchedit, he said hey, whatever you
(07:18):
think of his work, just give ita shot.
I mean, there's a lot ofinteresting things about the art
world and sort of the artistmentality.
That's really fascinating, and,as a character study, I found
it to be exactly that.
It was really interesting toget a peek inside the mind of
somebody who, I would say, has avery, if I can say this,
(07:39):
atypical personality type fromthe stereotypical artist, and
what I mean by that is he is onthe extreme end of the spectrum
of self-confidence.
I mean, I think that if wethink of it that way, right,
there's a spectrum ofself-confidence and self-doubt
(08:01):
and most of us I think you and Iprobably fall squarely in this
category vacillate back andforth between both extremes and
probably land whatever,somewhere in the middle.
I don't know that Mr Scullyspends much time.
He might dip below a nine, butmost days he's at a 10 or a
(08:23):
spinal tap.
His amps go to 11.
Like, yeah, and so it's justreally interesting, like just
just such supreme assuredness inhis artistic vision and what
he's trying to do.
Again, setting what you thinkabout you know his work aside,
but that was just a reallyinteresting takeaway for me.
I'm going to share a quote fromfrom the doctor that kind of
(08:46):
exemplifies what I'm referringto.
But he says I couldn't bediscouraged the same way as
Martin Luther King or BobbyKennedy.
They believe so much in whatthey believe they don't mind if
they get shot, and I don't mindeither, and he means that.
(09:12):
So anytime you're comparingyourself to those types of
individuals, you can kind of geta sense of where his self-image
is at.
But I just think it was reallyinteresting in terms of you know
the more that's actually sorry.
I want to share this as well.
This was.
I pulled that quote from theArtnet article that Kenny
Schachter wrote and he followsthat quote up with.
I can see the headline nowartist gets shot for his take on
stripes.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So if you know, Kenny Schachter, that's a very you
know.
Yes, can I add real quick yeah,because that quote by Sean
Scholey is a.
It's a pretty, I mean, yeah,it's extremely confident, but
it's also, yeah, martin LutherKing and Bobby Kennedy were so
steadfast in what they believe.
Nothing was going to stop themfrom saying what they were going
(09:51):
to say, from preaching whatthey were going to preach, or so
it's like, if you're going toshoot me, shoot me, I don't care
, I'm still going to continuewith my message.
And I think that's what Sean'ssaying is Ty, nathan, everybody
else, you may not like my work,but I don't care, I'm going to
keep making it.
So give me your best shot, it'snot going to matter.
And, of course, kenny, if youdon't follow, follow Kenny
(10:12):
Schachter on Instagram.
You have to.
He is one of the most satirical, hilarious comedic artists out
there.
Who does fantastic out there?
Who does fantastic?
One of the first digitalartists out there.
But also his sense of humor andhis wit and his ability to
write and narrate things arejust fabulous, so that quote is
(10:35):
taking the piss out of the artworld.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, 100%.
He is amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So this talking about shooting and getting shot just
reminded me of the Chris Burdenperformance shoot in 1971 at the
F Space Gallery in Santa Ana,where he had a friend and shoot
him with of people alwaysgetting shot in America, right
(11:08):
Cowboys, tv Westerns, all thesethings but also people getting
shot in war and he wanted toknow what it felt like.
So for performance he had hisfriend shoot him in the arm from
15 feet away and he documentedit by film, by photo.
We'll put some photos up in theYouTube episode so you guys can
see it.
But also that's one of thethings I saw in art school that
(11:31):
we talked about was Chris Burdenin a postmodern theory class
and we studied Chris Burden atlength and his documentary is
wonderful.
It's absolutely incredible andhe's definitely out there, but
it's worth a watch for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So, on the spectrum of self-confidence and
self-doubt, I think that if wethink about nature versus
nurture, versus what we cancontrol today, I mean, a lot of
these things are charactertraits and of course the
documentary goes into hisbackstory, and growing up very
poor on the streets, a lot ofthings obviously contributed to
him having this sort of fightermentality.
That's goes into his backstoryand you know, growing up, you
know very poor, you know on thestreets, like a lot of things
obviously contributed to himhaving this sort of fighter
(12:08):
mentality.
That's he's carried with himthroughout life.
So some of these things aresort of like part of our, you
know, mental and emotional DNA.
But to the extent that we cancontrol these things, my big
takeaway was just like how muchcan we channel our inner
Scully-esque level ofself-confidence and how can we
(12:30):
stack the decks in our favor tospend more time on that end of
the scale than the opposite?
Because the opposite extreme,of course, is being mired in
self-doubt and fear and justparalyzed by all of the things
that prevent us from making ourbest work.
So I was thinking about thisand there was a quote that came
(12:51):
up or an idea that came up, andI wasn't sure who the quote was
attributed to.
Apparently, it's.
William Blake said the firstthought is best in art, second
in other matters.
First thought is best in art,first thought best.
Yeah, so that's just, you know.
One example, I guess, is Ithink about my own practice of
you know, when I am in that sortof flow in confidence, it's the
(13:13):
first thing that comes to mindlike yeah, let her, let her rip.
You know, as we love to quotepretty much every episode now
from from Holland.
But I had a, I had a moment ofthe day in the in the studio,
and I kind of smiled because Iwas talking about the
documentary.
But you know, I use a lot ofmultiple layers of resin in most
of my pieces and I was thinkingabout how, you know, typically
the product that I use the mostcures in about 30 minutes or so,
(13:36):
and so one of the things I'vestarted doing is mixing up more
than I need.
You know, for the main,whatever piece that I think, and
then I just carried around to,for the main, whatever piece
that I think, and then I justcarried around to all of the
works in progress and you know,most cases I've got like maybe
10 minutes before it starts toreally become, you know,
unworkable.
And so I had this moment whereI grabbed some different pink,
(13:58):
pink wood shards that I hadlaying around and just put, you
know, had some resin, put themin a piece, doubt it in the
moment, but again, like allright, that stuff's going to
cure and and, hey, I can alwayscover it up or do something with
it anyway.
But it became one of myfavorite moments, you know of,
of this piece, but just gettinginto that, like first thought
best, just, you know, go for it.
And, um, just one example of away that one might consider, you
(14:20):
know, putting that moreself-confident mentality into
action consistently.
Yeah, what do you got?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, the other day I was A couple of days ago, maybe
it's two I was Got on Instagramfor a minute to put a piece up
and my friend, dana James,wonderful female New York
painter, had a new piece up andit literally stopped me in my
tracks Like it moved me to tearsinstantly.
You know and this is somethingthat is something I love about
(14:50):
art, because this doesn't happenall the time, like it happens
at times, but it doesn't happenall the time where I see a work
and it just right to the heart,like just open my soul up into
this moment that absolutelygrabbed me and emotionally moved
me to tears and I just satthere looking at it and studying
(15:13):
it and I put it here in ourdocument so that and I know that
you saw it too the other daybut there was just something
about the colors, the depth, hercomposition, the way that she
has hard lines and hard shapes,but then the just that blue
brush stroke across the middlewith the way that the yellows
(15:34):
and the oranges kind of move andflow around it and then it
opens up to the negative spaceat the top that has just little
bits and pieces floating it.
I mean, I'm getting emotionalright now.
It's just such a beautiful,stunning work of art and I've
known Dana for a few years now.
She actually came to Texas for aresidency program and I shot
(15:57):
her a message years ago and saidhey, you're only an hour and a
half from me, can I take you tolunch?
And she was like come on headdown.
So I went over, spent time withher, got to learn just kind of
the way she works, how shecreates her work in the studio.
We spent time in the studio,then we went and grabbed
barbecue and just hung out forthe afternoon and so watching
(16:17):
her progression over time, it'sjust, it's a beautiful piece.
I'm excited for you all to seeit and you definitely need to be
following her.
I'll have the Instagram handlein the video as well, and in our
, in our show notes too, withthe everything else we talk
about.
But it's definitely a piecethat I mean.
It just it's beautiful, it'sincredible.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's called a piece that I mean it just it's
beautiful, it's incredible.
It's called this Lovely LittleWish is the title.
I want to just make a littlenote that that's a great example
of you doing the thing that youanswered in the previous
question of just reaching outright, Cold calling somebody or
whatever, cold DMing somebody,saying, hey, love your work,
would love to meet and talk art.
Right, this piece is phenomenal, and I was thinking about it
because when I saw that you haddropped this in the outline, I
(17:02):
had seen this as well and spentsome time with it too.
I don't know Dana personally,but I follow her on Instagram.
I think this is just one of thebest examples I've seen in
quite some time of just aperfect balance of intention and
control, with sort of thoseintuitive you know free loose
marks that I've, that I've seen.
(17:23):
I mean it's got both and thebalance between them is just
absolutely stunning.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Everything within it works, yeah, in a very emotional
, powerful and beautiful way.
Yeah, well done, dana.
So one more emotional, powerfuland beautiful way.
Yeah, well done, dana.
So one more thing Anotherfriend of mine that I follow
pretty regularly, jonathanTodrick, who's a North Dallas
painter, has some new work thathe's been working on, and I was
(17:51):
sitting here and I was going,gosh, there's so many great
things about these pieces.
I was sitting here and I wasgoing, gosh, there's so many
great things about these pieces.
And it's almost as if RonGorchov, who's currently at Vito
Schnabel Gallery, frank Stellaand Ellsworth Kelly had a baby.
That's where I feel like ifthose three got together and
(18:12):
they had a love child, this iswhat would have came out.
And I'm not an artist whotypically loves shapes or
explosions behind me.
I just did the iPhone explosion.
I wasn't going to see it.
I don't usually love shapes andthis is something I've talked
about with other friends whowill have shapes and paintings
and things.
And I'll say I'm not the bestjudge of this because it's not
something I gravitate towards,but for years Jonathan has
(18:36):
really been playing with in hispaintings, moving from really
big gestural or small gesturalpieces to really deep blends,
almost Rothko-esque type blends,and takes into things, and then
he'll move in and, withoutdifferent shapes, playing with
all these different ideas in hiswork.
Well, he recently just tookthese painting forms that were
(18:58):
in painting and started actuallytaking them from 2D to
three-dimensional objects on thewall, and I just think they're
fantastic, and that's somebodyfor me that I don't usually
gravitate towards shapes orthings, but now that they've
become sculptural, they're justwonderful to me, and every time
I see one that he puts up, it'sjust absolutely captivating to
(19:19):
me, and so I just wanted to givehim a nod because it's
definitely inspired me.
And I think this is what we'retrying to do as artists, and
this is what I'm always tryingto do is how do I continue to
gravitate to the next idea, likewe've talked about, following
the threads that are let loosein all of our work and
continuing them on to new things, new ideas, exploring those
(19:43):
ideas and then finding whatreally works and then running
with it.
And I think Jonathan has reallynailed it here and really gone
from all these different threadsthat were loose in his other
work and then took them to thenew idea and is really starting
to develop it, and it'sabsolutely inspiring to me.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, I don't know Jonathan personally, but I can
imagine that taking that leapfrom the two dimensional to the
three dimensional must've been abig, a big decision, because
there's a lot of a lot that goesinto, you know, making a
transition like that Right.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yep, making the transition and then making it
work, yeah, like making itactually work on the wall.
So well done, jonathanFantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, I hadn't seen these die until you introduced
them to me as we're preparingfor the episode, but one of the
things that really caught myattention and really intrigues
me is just the imperfections inthe shapes.
You know some of these.
You know the circular, you knowshapes take this sort of
angular turn that really, reallypulls the eye in, and, of
course, I'm a sucker for texture, so it looks like they're
almost like a stucco type.
(20:49):
You know texture on them aswell, which is just really
interesting as well.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, and Jonathan, over the years he's played with
cement, he's played with allkinds of different things on top
of canvas and on top of thingsand he's really taken, honestly,
the last five years of his workwith his blends, where he has
things that are going, they gofrom dark to light, the way they
blend and they've got thatrough feel to the outside.
(21:16):
And he's taken all those ideas,the last five, six years of
ideas, and wrap them up intothese pieces.
And I think the next thing forJonathan, just in my eyes as
somebody who looks at work, alot is really now nailing the
lighting, so that shadow nowbecomes a really big part of how
(21:37):
those pieces are displayed in agallery, in a space.
And so I think anytime you movefrom a two-dimensional painting
to even a three-dimensionalwall object, now lighting is
going to take an even largerturn.
And this is something that ourgood friend Alison Hudson and I
have talked about for years now,that how important lighting is
(21:58):
for her work, because her workis delicate.
It's wonderfully delicate in away that if the lighting is not
perfect, you will miss thedetails within the work and
behind the work and what it doeson the wall with shadows.
So I think that's always.
The next big step is startreally playing with lighting and
(22:18):
how you want those to push,pull, move, share the wall or
come completely off the wall,depending on your lighting.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So, moving on to our next segment that we are working
title what I learned.
We can probably do better thanthat as we go here, but what am
I learning?
What am I learning?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn assumes that we can
probably do better than that aswe go here.
But these are just.
What am I learning?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
What am I learning?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah yeah, learned.
Assumes that it's locked inLearning Ding ding ding.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Forever.
So, yeah, these are justlessons, takeaways from our
practice.
What's the work been teachingus?
One of the things that I wantedto share that I've been really
reflecting on recently is justthe importance of identifying
that there's a time to exploreand a time to execute, and as I
approach right at about thetwo-month mark before the work's
(23:05):
got to be shipped to Munich,I'm getting in that very much
execution mode because that'sthe necessity of things, and so
I think I was just thinking alot about, you know, the
difference between you knowreally getting in tune with a
single piece, just going on ajourney, getting lost together
and having that be.
(23:25):
Oh my gosh, it's getting darkout, the day's over and we've
just been just you and me, handin hand, you know, trying to
find our way, versus you knowkind of bouncing around and
fulfilling the necessary taskswhen working on multiple pieces
throughout the day.
One of the things that I foundto be useful in show prep is
(23:46):
having self-imposed deadlines,just different benchmarks along
the way, and so this may havebeen a bit ambitious, but one of
my the upcoming one anyway,deadline that is is to get six
pieces done before my brothercomes in town in about a week
here.
We're going to go go camping upNorth and get some time away
and there'll be a little bit ofa break.
(24:06):
But one of the things that Ifound to be really useful in
this sort of execution phase isa good old fashioned spreadsheet
, which I'm not super inclinedto uh, to use, but I spreadsheet
which I'm not super inclined touse, but I have found that it's
very helpful in sort of justlaying everything out and
identifying.
So I've kind of got my routineas I get into this more
(24:27):
production-based mode, notproduction, but just the volume
of work that I'm aiming to getcompleted.
So doing my morning walkthrough,sitting down with a computer, I
mean I counted up yesterdayI've got about 13 pieces that
I'm actively working on rightnow, and so just the takeaway
for me is that it's important toand I've had to learn this over
(24:50):
time it's important to identifythat there is a feeling that
I'm chasing, when I'm goingafter that sort of dramatic
transformation over the courseof the day.
There's a certain feeling thatI and I think we, get from
having that sort of fulfillmentof this happen today on this
(25:11):
particular piece, and it startedhere and it went all the way
over here and that's exciting,it's fun, it's fresh, but also
acknowledging that there is atime for that sort of like one
foot in front of the other,brick by brick approach, you
know, which often results inmore.
For me, anyway, more consideredwork, one of the things I
learned we've talked about thisin previous episodes, but you
(25:32):
know we've discussed the valueof sitting with the work that
we've completed and really youshared a great story about this
in the last episode.
But identifying like, oh, Ireally love that, what do we
like, what do we not like, whichthreads do we want to pull and
(25:52):
carry them forward.
And so I was looking back at acouple pieces that I had done
for the previous show and Iremembered when they were done
they were early in that sort ofseason or that sort of phase for
that particular show and I wasreflecting back on how, for
whatever reason, the way thatthey were laid out.
These were pieces that weremade over dozens of little micro
(26:16):
sessions, not to get toospecific, but a lot of.
You know I mentioned the resinmoment before placing a lot of
different clues and bits from avariety of different materials
and on any one day.
This is the point, on any onegiven day it might be, you know,
one teeny little moment thatgets added and that day, that
(26:38):
moment of just like ploppingthat little thing on there that
takes up less than 1% of thetotal piece or whatever it might
be, isn't much.
But the cumulative effect, thatsort of again brick by brick
mindset of building things upover time, is really valuable.
So I guess just the takeaway forme is just paying attention to
what works and creating thehabits and the systems that
(26:59):
reinforce them.
I do not love sitting down infront of my laptop really for
much of anything, especially tolay out like here's all the
things I'm doing on.
But I found it to be a veryuseful step in the process to be
able to say all right, likeyesterday I touched and did
something to, I think, seven oreight different pieces.
(27:20):
None of them gave me that sortof excitement or that rush or
that feeling necessarily, butthe cumulative effect over time
is extremely powerful.
So, yeah, just being aware ofwhat works and leaning into
those little habits and routinesthat reinforce those things, I
think is really valuable.
How about you, ty?
What's your practice beenteaching you?
(27:42):
Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Nathan, my pleasure.
I mean things have been so wildfor me the last summer.
I mean I complain about itevery episode we're on this
summer just how hot it is in thestudio.
So I've been doing a lot ofsmall works and I did them to
apply for an exhibition in NewYork.
I got one of the small works inexhibition in New York and then
one at a small museum here inWaco.
(28:03):
And then yesterday I went I'mgoing to do some more and so I
cut 20 small canvases and Istarted working on 20 small
works yesterday, just thinkingthrough ideas for the big
project that I'm going to startpretty soon, which, turning 50,
really makes you sit and thinkabout life it's a monumental age
(28:24):
to hit and kind of thinkingabout the past and where I'm
going and where I've been, and Idecided I'm going to do a body
of work titled 50 Works for 50years, and so I started just
journaling, as you and I doregularly.
I started journaling places, allthe places that I've lived, and
memories from those places.
So smells, sights, people,music, songs, tastes, even like
(28:50):
little things, like ice creamwith my parents and triple
malted crunch ice cream that Iwould get when I was young at
Thrifty Ice Cream in Sacramento,california, like just little
things like that, that, becauseall of those little things bring
in different feelings anddifferent times, and so while
I've been journaling that forideas for creating actual pieces
, I've been going through andlooking at old work and looking
(29:13):
at threads, those loose threads,things.
I think I can carry on to newideas.
But then I had this crazybrainstorm of actually traveling
to all these locations and likea 10 or 20 day kind of road
trip where I went to all theplaces where I grew up and where
my grandparents lived and did a.
It would be the entire state ofCalifornia.
(29:34):
So kind of going up to NorthernCalifornia, working my way down
and filming it and writing inthose areas and spaces and
writing poetry and creatingthoughts and ideas from each of
those locations.
I probably wouldn't go to Chinaor Budapest or Romania which I
would love to, but that costgets a little high but then
using that to really create moreof a story behind the 50 works
(30:00):
and possibly create little bitsof short documentary type ideas
behind how I'm creating the work, why I'm creating it and what's
going into it.
So I've kind of been reallykind of working on those things.
And then, obviously, dana andJonathan's work this week gave
me that even little jolt ofinspiration of, okay, let's go,
we've got to catch up to them.
(30:21):
They're doing some big thingsright, pull that competition
head out of.
Okay, they're moving on, I needto keep moving on, I need to
keep growing, let's go, let's dothis.
And then rejection.
I shared that with you thismorning and I've been sharing it
with a few friends.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I just want to put a little plug in, for you know you
could go full Sean Scully andget yourself a PJ and just fly
you know wherever, wherever youwant.
No, I love your 50 for 50 idea.
I will say this I thought thatI was nostalgic, um, and then I
got to know you and I'm not evenclose on the uhism around
(31:01):
nostalgia and places, people,things.
I love the way you incorporatethat into your work, so I'm
excited to see what you do withthat.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well, and the funny?
I think I told you this theother day.
The funny thing is is I createplaylists right For all the work
that I make all the bodies ofwork, create playlists right For
all the work that I make allthe bodies of work.
And so I thought, okay, I'mgoing to make a playlist of the
best albums from every year I'vebeen alive Like the ones that I
would really like.
And so I sat, I got on the couchthe other day in our library,
at the house, in our readingroom, and I started on 1974.
(31:30):
And so after about three and ahalf hours I went this is
ridiculous, that's an album for50 years, and if that just took
me three and a half hours toresearch the top albums of
different genres for 1974, andthen I added in a Spotify
(31:52):
playlist all the ones that Ireally like, right, I will be 75
by the time I complete thatplaylist.
So I ended up going a differentdirection and I have a playlist
of music that is veryinspirational to me.
It doesn't fit the years, butit's that music that really just
gives me, it just doessomething emotionally, and so
(32:14):
I'm going to work from that.
And then I have an all-timefavorites playlist on Spotify.
That is all of my favoritesongs from my entire life that I
accumulate over time, and soI'll be creating from both of
those, but anyways, yeah, I feellike I cut you off.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
You're about to share something else.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah I was going to say.
And then rejection at times canbe inspiring for me and helps
me learn some things, becausethere was a residency that I
applied for that I really,really wanted.
And now I've learned not tohave big expectations, because
you can really let yourself downand I am a four on the
Enneagram.
So putting really bigexpectations on things and not
getting them can send me into areally dark place for a while.
(32:55):
And I found out this morningthat I was not shortlisted for
the residency and you know, Isat there for a minute and I was
really bummed.
And it's okay to be bummed,it's okay to be down we don't
want to wallow in it for a month, but it's okay to go down.
What?
Why would I?
Now?
Artists, subjective so thepeople choosing the artists
(33:15):
right, they're going to choose.
Hey, I really, this art reallyspeaks to me and this artist, we
feel like we can really investin them, et cetera, et cetera.
And so I kind of went throughthat in my head and then I, you
know, I got really frustratedand went what?
600 hours supplied?
How am I not better than all600 artists?
I kind of had that thought inmy head.
(33:40):
You know as well, which is thatSean Scully moment where I'm
like are you kidding me out of600?
I wasn't the best on there.
And then you go.
You know what I'm going to takethat comment and go well, maybe
I was 599, which means I've gotthat many artists to pass up
and get in the studio and workharder than and do more, and so
that's where I've been reallypushing inward and saying well,
now you just got to be betterfor the next time you apply,
(34:02):
let's make that work jump.
So the next time you apply,maybe they go oh, he applied
last time.
Holy crap, look at the jump inhis work from last year.
Yeah, we need to take a chancewith him.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think the I really want to highlight what you did
with that, with that feelingthat this is a.
It's a great example ofsomething we've certainly talked
about before, but just like youdidn't I mean you you sat in as
long as you are you four with athree or four to five when on
the Enneagram.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I don't remember.
You have to ask me and you haveto ask my wife.
She knows she's the Enneagramexpert.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Okay, I'm going to guess three, but um, I, uh, I'm
a three with the four wing.
So anyway, for those of youthat are familiar with the
Enneagram, but it's interestingAnyway, the the the point there.
You didn't just sit in it andand feel the feels and let that
slow you down.
You ultimately were able tochannel that into useful fuel to
(34:59):
get to work right.
Yeah, we're all going to facerejection.
We're all going to have thosemoments and those feelings.
So, yeah, so you have developedthe habit of doing something
with it Is that something youthink you've always had, or is
that something you think you'vehad to learn over time?
No, it's learned.
It's very learned.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Because I used to.
In the Enneagram you talk aboutyour shadow self, which is the
false self.
You have your true self andyour false self in the Enneagram
when you're at your best, whenyou're at your worst, and so I
used to just wallow in it so Iwould fall into very, very deep
fits of depression and unhealthyways and channel it in
(35:38):
unhealthy ways and so.
But I've definitely learned,and part of that learning is
talking about it.
So called, my wife talked toher instantly because she was
excited, so we'd had to moveoverseas for 15 months if we got
it.
So we were kind of thinkingthrough how that would work and
that stuff, and so she was, ofcourse, bummed for me how that
would work and that stuff.
And so she was, of course,bummed for me.
(35:58):
But then I, I called, uh, myfriend Kasia Krakica and I sent
her a message on Marco Polo andmy friend Vino and Gianna
Tassone, and then talk to you aswell.
So I vented to my friends in ahealthy way.
Not terribly, it was like gosh,I really wanted this, I'm
really bummed, but okay, I gotto work harder.
Now I need to step this up.
But I had to let it out tomultiple people and I think that
(36:20):
really helped me breathe.
Yeah, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
No, I love that.
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
That's a great segue into.
I've got one little takeaway.
Um, that will, that will closewith.
But just what to do with things, you know, when they come up.
There's a quote that I'vereally been spending a lot of
time with, to Nietzsche quote.
I feel like we've quotedNietzsche like in the last six
episodes running, but this one'sjust perfect.
It's, and most people haveprobably seen it already, but
(36:46):
the essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude.
The essence of all art isgratitude.
I'm shortening it and I don'tknow.
There are a number of differentinterpretations and I'm not.
We don't need to spend, youknow, 30 minutes dissecting this
, but for me, the takeaway isjust the more time that I can
(37:07):
spend in gratitude, like, oh, Imean, goodness, we get to do
this, you know, yeah.
Whether it's whatever, whateveryou are, our dear listener,
whatever your situation is,whether it's, you know,
full-time or just here and thereor once in a great while, like
we, we have the ability, theluxury of, of making art which
(37:29):
we could also argue is is, youknow, for most of us a necessity
to get some of those things out.
But just the more that I canget back to that place, the more
that we I'll speak for both ofus can get back to that place of
gratitude of like, wow, I mean,this is just like we get to do
this.
You know, this is a it's such a, it's such a tremendous, you
(37:50):
know gift, such a tremendous,you know blessing to be able to
be able to you be able to dothat.
And there are a couple ofthings that, for me, are
fundamental, especially as I getinto.
You opened up a vein, I will aswell.
There seems to be a reoccurringtheme every time I'm preparing
for a show, which is oh shit,this is going to suck, Nothing's
(38:12):
working.
You know what I mean.
And and it and it's justbecause there is that, that hard
deadline, right, like what.
In the absence of that, it'slike ah, you know, it's the
work's moving along and whatever.
But you know, when there is ahard stop to like hey, this
stuff needs to be created up andit's got to get through customs
and blah, blah, blah, like it's, it's gotta be done'm tired,
(38:37):
when something's not working,when I'm frustrated, getting
back to that like hey, trustingin the process, getting back to
gratitude, is so, so huge.
So for me, what that looks likein terms of just like the daily
habits is journaling.
I had to refresh my stock ofMoleskine so I got a couple more
of these I had for a while.
I had like seven or eightdifferent like journals that
(38:58):
were like not completely full,sort of floating around that I'd
have to like dig up and find soagain, just like making it easy
and removing the barrier entryto be able to do that
consistently.
So one at the studio here andone you know at home.
But also, just like you know,meditation.
You know we've talked aboutthis, you know before as well,
but I actually pulled a quote.
I've mentioned this book abunch of times, I feel like on
(39:18):
the podcast this um catching thebig fish by David Lynch.
But I wanted to read a quote andthat really just brings us home
in terms of, you know,meditation specifically for the
creative.
Uh, this is from page 99.
If you've got the book, it'ssuch an easy read because
there's just little little minis.
I'm going to read an entiresection of the book, that's
that's like a paragraph and ahalf, but this is titled a tower
(39:41):
of gold.
So he writes how doesmeditation get rid of negativity
?
Picture it this way you are theempire state building.
You've got hundreds of roomsand in those rooms there's lots
of junk, and you put all thatjunk there.
Rooms, and in those roomsthere's lots of junk, and you
put all that junk there.
Now you take this elevator,which is going to be the dive
within, and you go down belowthe building.
(40:01):
You go to the unified fieldbeneath the building pure
consciousness, and it's likeelectric gold.
You experience that, and thatelectric gold activates these
little cleaning robots.
They start going, they startcleaning the rooms.
They put in gold where the dirtand junk and garbage were.
These stresses that were inthere, like coils of barbed wire
(40:24):
, can unwind, they evaporate,they come out.
You're cleaning and infusing.
Simultaneously.
You're on the road to abeautiful state of enlightenment
.
He's such a great writer.
I just love the way he thinksand puts different ideas.
But I thought that was worthsharing.
I just think it's so true.
(40:44):
I mean, there's so manydifferent thought goblins that
just take up residence and fillup these rooms with junk, as he
puts it.
And so having that practice Imean again those two things for
me journaling and meditatingwhen I'm down, when I'm
depressed if I can set aside 20minutes, I can do both of those
(41:04):
things in 20 minutes.
They are undefeated, one or theother or both.
To get back to that place ofgratitude and to be able to
create from a place of abundancerather than scarcity, it's huge
.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, those are soul care moments that we talk about
a lot, and the reason we talkabout a lot is because it's so
important.
You need to do those things.
One of my artists in my programcurrently we were talking about
soul care and just what do youneed to do to breathe deeply and
feel alive?
When you have a job thatrequires a lot of hours, that's
(41:41):
very stressful, and all you wantto do is make art, yeah, and
you just don't have the time todo it.
You've got to find moments to,like she did yesterday went out
on the beach in Chicago andwalked into the water.
You know what I mean.
Like went into the lake andfelt the water and then
collected things to use in herartwork while she was out there,
you know, on the lake, and soit was like just that.
(42:05):
Those moments can help you torefocus, reevaluate.
But also you know that there'sa difference between a deep
breath.
When everything is fine andyou're not stressed and you
don't have pressure, you canreally feel it in your lungs.
You're breathing from down,deep within, not just from up.
(42:25):
Here you're breathing your fulldiaphragm breathing, and then,
when you're really stressed andyou do that, you can feel it's
kind of a shorter breath.
It just just feels kind ofuncomfortable.
And that's what soul carereally does.
In a picture of what it does,it makes everything around you
feel like a really deep, cleanbreath, with no pressure.
So go out, do something.
(42:48):
What do you need for soul care,artists?
What is it that you?
For me, it's just going andsitting at a coffee shop,
sometimes with a book and a cupof coffee, and just sitting and
just writing.
For me, writing, like Nathan,journaling, writing poetry.
I write a lot of poetry beingoutside, just observing people,
observing nature, and justwriting poetry.
That makes me a new person,makes me a new person almost
(43:10):
instantly sometimes.
So, whatever it is for you, godo it, go find it, find those
moments to do that.
It's important.
I don't know about you.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Ty, but it's it's really hard for me to to do
those.
It's hard for me to set downthe sword, you know, and stop
fighting and just be.
You know I we've talked aboutthe Enneagram, so I'll reference
it again, like that's part ofthe sort of achiever mindset
that is the the whatever.
My inherent wiring is as a, asa three is like keep pushing,
(43:39):
keep pushing.
You know, when I'm in thatfalse self, I'm believing the
lie that I am only okay, that myidentity lies in what I do not.
You know who I am, and so whenI'm in that stressful place, my
nature is to just keep grip iteven tighter and keep pushing
and keep trying to makesomething happen, as opposed to
just taking a breath, taking amoment.
(44:02):
I mean the ROI.
The return on investment forthese very small little things
is tremendous, but we have to dothem.
I think that pretty much wraps.
You got anything else for us?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yes, no, I was just going to say in closing.
Yeah, I was going to say inclosing what's inspiring you?
Let us know.
We want to know.
Yeah, let us know on Instagram.
Share a picture or a piece ofart that inspires you with us on
Instagram.
Or let us know what's inspiringyou lately, what's driving you
in the studio, what's somethingyou've come across that's made
you just go wow, like it did forme with Dana James piece.
(44:40):
Like what is it?
We want to know.
We love seeing new things andlearning what's inspiring
everybody else.
So, holler at us, holla, okay,all right.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
See you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Have a good week, bye , bye, love it time.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Have a good week.
Bye, bye, love it, love it.
Like you said, I love it, loveit, but I didn't, I didn't feel
it, so maybe I'll just.
I'll just close that love itlove it fucking love it, dude.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
That's amazing.
Oh, what, what, what, what,what, what.
all right.
So, ty, as we're coming off ofa fairly dense three-part series
on art and fear we werethinking of, that's not loose at
all.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, I don't think it was dense, I think it was
badass you screw it, let's justkeep going.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The whole idea with this was to keep it loose anyway
, like self-editing as we go.
Screw it, yeah, no, so we werejust thinking about, let's be
honest, something that was maybejust a little bit less
preparation than going throughan entire book highlighting our
points, having a detailedoutline.
So this is a new type ofepisode that we're doing.
We're calling this a quickie ora random episode, which is just
(00:57):
a working title.
We'll almost certainly findsomething better than that, but
yeah, so we just wanted to dosomething where we've got some
kind of reoccurring segments.
We're going to get into someQ&A, we're going to talk about
some things that have just kindof caught our attention, that
are inspiring us, and then justshare some takeaways, things
that we've learned from ourpersonal practice and things
that could be potentiallyapplied to others as well.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
But I have a question before we start, since it's
loose.
Yeah, it's just popped into myhead.
So I turned 50 last week.
I think I shared that on thelast episode, I can't remember.
So does that mean I have tolike start over?
Does that mean I need to find anew me for the next 50?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, if you're planning on hitting
triple digits, I would say it'sprobably overdue for you to
reinvent, for you to reinventyourself okay, okay, that's good
to know.
I need to take that into thestudio then and figure some new
things out I mean it will sayfor those of you that aren't
watching us on youtube here uhty is sporting a very fresh
haircut, high and tight, that isdefinitely you know.
(02:00):
It kind of screams like I'm not50 yet.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, Doing my best to not I want to buck the trend
of what happens after 50.
So if I can reverse engineereverything, then I'm going to
move in great directions.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I love that for you.
I mean, you got options too,because you got the full facial
hair menu as well as a marveloushead of hair as well.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, thank you you know menu as well as a marvelous
head of hair as well.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So from a look standpoint, you can reinvent
yourself as often as you'd like.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, maybe I'll move into sculpture and start
getting some clay and doing somebusts.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I think you should.
I think you should do it.
Go back to high school.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
All right, let's jump into the mailbag.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So this is.
We just got one question thatwe're going to dig into today,
but a good reminder, too, for usto remind folks to.
Hey, we love questions, we lovedoing Q&A.
We've done a couple of juststraight up Q&A episodes when we
get enough sort of in the queue, but there's something whether
it be a previous episode,something that you had a
different takeaway or adifferent perspective on things
that you want to throw in, orsomething that you're just
(03:03):
genuinely curious about, orlooking for us to give our A.
Feel free to shoot that to us.
Let's see.
So DM us on Just Make Art onInstagram as well.
As what's the feature, ty,right through the?
Is it just on Spotify thatpeople can do the comments?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I think Spotify allows you to actually ask
specific questions or commentsthrough the platform, but you
can also do it on YouTube aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh yeah, of course.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And then we check those regularly.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yes, we do, all right .
So today's question comes fromBrittany Clifford and I'll just
go ahead and read it.
Brittany writes hey guys, I'm ahuge fan of the pod.
No-transcript, ty.
(04:13):
I'm going to go ahead and tossthis one over to you because I
know that you have helped othersnavigate this more than once
through the program and I'mcurious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, so I met Brittany Clifford through our
great friend, Gianna Tassone.
They were friends in New York,besties in New York and shared.
I know Gianna used Britney'sstudio often when she was in New
York working on stuff too.
And yeah, Britney's got a bigmove.
That is exciting but also nervewracking when you do have a
community in a New York.
(04:39):
Right, this isn't like a smalltown in Nebraska.
She's leaving.
She's leaving the New York artscene.
And it seems like anytime youhave some flow or things are
growing for you in a locationart-wise, then you leave.
You almost have to start over.
You do have to start over.
So when you get to Miami I meanyou know this in New York when
(05:00):
you go out to shows and you goout to things you rub elbows and
you meet people, random people,you see, people you know, and
it's just it's going to be thatyou need to figure out what
galleries you may fit inwork-wise as an emerging painter
and start going to all thoseopenings, get on the mailing
list so you don't miss theopenings and just get out and go
(05:20):
look Instagram searching forhashtags Miami painters, miami
artists, things like that andsee if there's anybody you can
connect with ahead of time.
And also shoot me an email so Ican introduce you to some
friends that I have in Miami aswell that are in the art scene
there.
So definitely shoot me an emailor a message so that I can
connect you to some people whenyou get there.
(05:41):
But that's the big thing Justget out, go network, be busy,
rub elbows, have coffee withpeople and start over Perfect.
I love that I have no follow-upquestions.
Sweet, moving to a new locationis inspiring, I think.
I think it's scary when you dothat, but it's also inspiring
because you're moving into abrand new set of surroundings,
(06:04):
of people, of feelings, ofcultures, locations.
Different places are different,the air is different, so it
brings a whole new height of newideas and new things into the
studio, and I know that'ssomething that you and I are
always trying to captureInspiration in the studio.
How can I get some new thingsthat just feed me, that excite
(06:25):
me, that drive me each time inthe studio?
So I'd love to know if there'sanything that has really jumped
out to you or caught yourattention lately that's been
feeding your practice.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So there was an art documentary that was recommended
to both of us.
I don't know if you watched itor not, did you?
I have not yet, okay, yeah, soour mutual friend and a friend
of the show, a previous guestco-host, eric Breisch,
recommended this documentary tous.
It was, I think it's about fiveyears old I believe it came out
in 2019, but it's calledUnstoppable the Art of
(06:58):
Everything and it's all about it.
Features Sean Scully, featuresSean Scully, and I will begin by
saying that I'm not the biggestfan of his work.
I think it's yeah, whatever, itjust doesn't connect with me.
It doesn't strike me personally, however, and so I actually
told Eric that before I watchedit, he said hey, whatever you
(07:18):
think of his work, just give ita shot.
I mean, there's a lot ofinteresting things about the art
world and sort of the artistmentality.
That's really fascinating, and,as a character study, I found
it to be exactly that.
It was really interesting toget a peek inside the mind of
somebody who, I would say, has avery, if I can say this,
(07:39):
atypical personality type fromthe stereotypical artist, and
what I mean by that is he is onthe extreme end of the spectrum
of self-confidence.
I mean, I think that if wethink of it that way, right,
there's a spectrum ofself-confidence and self-doubt
(08:01):
and most of us I think you and Iprobably fall squarely in this
category vacillate back andforth between both extremes and
probably land whatever,somewhere in the middle.
I don't know that Mr Scullyspends much time.
He might dip below a nine, butmost days he's at a 10 or a
(08:23):
spinal tap.
His amps go to 11.
Like, yeah, and so it's justreally interesting, like just
just such supreme assuredness inhis artistic vision and what
he's trying to do.
Again, setting what you thinkabout you know his work aside,
but that was just a reallyinteresting takeaway for me.
I'm going to share a quote fromfrom the doctor that kind of
(08:46):
exemplifies what I'm referringto.
But he says I couldn't bediscouraged the same way as
Martin Luther King or BobbyKennedy.
They believe so much in whatthey believe they don't mind if
they get shot, and I don't mindeither, and he means that.
(09:12):
So anytime you're comparingyourself to those types of
individuals, you can kind of geta sense of where his self-image
is at.
But I just think it was reallyinteresting in terms of you know
the more that's actually sorry.
I want to share this as well.
This was.
I pulled that quote from theArtnet article that Kenny
Schachter wrote and he followsthat quote up with.
I can see the headline nowartist gets shot for his take on
stripes.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So if you know, Kenny Schachter, that's a very you
know.
Yes, can I add real quick yeah,because that quote by Sean
Scholey is a.
It's a pretty, I mean, yeah,it's extremely confident, but
it's also, yeah, martin LutherKing and Bobby Kennedy were so
steadfast in what they believe.
Nothing was going to stop themfrom saying what they were going
(09:51):
to say, from preaching whatthey were going to preach, or so
it's like, if you're going toshoot me, shoot me, I don't care
, I'm still going to continuewith my message.
And I think that's what Sean'ssaying is Ty, nathan, everybody
else, you may not like my work,but I don't care, I'm going to
keep making it.
So give me your best shot, it'snot going to matter.
And, of course, kenny, if youdon't follow, follow Kenny
(10:12):
Schachter on Instagram.
You have to.
He is one of the most satirical, hilarious comedic artists out
there.
Who does fantastic out there?
Who does fantastic?
One of the first digitalartists out there.
But also his sense of humor andhis wit and his ability to
write and narrate things arejust fabulous, so that quote is
(10:35):
taking the piss out of the artworld.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, 100%.
He is amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So this talking about shooting and getting shot just
reminded me of the Chris Burdenperformance shoot in 1971 at the
F Space Gallery in Santa Ana,where he had a friend and shoot
him with of people alwaysgetting shot in America, right
(11:08):
Cowboys, tv Westerns, all thesethings but also people getting
shot in war and he wanted toknow what it felt like.
So for performance he had hisfriend shoot him in the arm from
15 feet away and he documentedit by film, by photo.
We'll put some photos up in theYouTube episode so you guys can
see it.
But also that's one of thethings I saw in art school that
(11:31):
we talked about was Chris Burdenin a postmodern theory class
and we studied Chris Burden atlength and his documentary is
wonderful.
It's absolutely incredible andhe's definitely out there, but
it's worth a watch for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So, on the spectrum of self-confidence and
self-doubt, I think that if wethink about nature versus
nurture, versus what we cancontrol today, I mean, a lot of
these things are charactertraits and of course the
documentary goes into hisbackstory, and growing up very
poor on the streets, a lot ofthings obviously contributed to
him having this sort of fightermentality.
That's goes into his backstoryand you know, growing up, you
know very poor, you know on thestreets, like a lot of things
obviously contributed to himhaving this sort of fighter
(12:08):
mentality.
That's he's carried with himthroughout life.
So some of these things aresort of like part of our, you
know, mental and emotional DNA.
But to the extent that we cancontrol these things, my big
takeaway was just like how muchcan we channel our inner
Scully-esque level ofself-confidence and how can we
(12:30):
stack the decks in our favor tospend more time on that end of
the scale than the opposite?
Because the opposite extreme,of course, is being mired in
self-doubt and fear and justparalyzed by all of the things
that prevent us from making ourbest work.
So I was thinking about thisand there was a quote that came
(12:51):
up or an idea that came up, andI wasn't sure who the quote was
attributed to.
Apparently, it's.
William Blake said the firstthought is best in art, second
in other matters.
First thought is best in art,first thought best.
Yeah, so that's just, you know.
One example, I guess, is Ithink about my own practice of
you know, when I am in that sortof flow in confidence, it's the
(13:13):
first thing that comes to mindlike yeah, let her, let her rip.
You know, as we love to quotepretty much every episode now
from from Holland.
But I had a, I had a moment ofthe day in the in the studio,
and I kind of smiled because Iwas talking about the
documentary.
But you know, I use a lot ofmultiple layers of resin in most
of my pieces and I was thinkingabout how, you know, typically
the product that I use the mostcures in about 30 minutes or so,
(13:36):
and so one of the things I'vestarted doing is mixing up more
than I need.
You know, for the main,whatever piece that I think, and
then I just carried around to,for the main, whatever piece
that I think, and then I justcarried around to all of the
works in progress and you know,most cases I've got like maybe
10 minutes before it starts toreally become, you know,
unworkable.
And so I had this moment whereI grabbed some different pink,
(13:58):
pink wood shards that I hadlaying around and just put, you
know, had some resin, put themin a piece, doubt it in the
moment, but again, like allright, that stuff's going to
cure and and, hey, I can alwayscover it up or do something with
it anyway.
But it became one of myfavorite moments, you know of,
of this piece, but just gettinginto that, like first thought
best, just, you know, go for it.
And, um, just one example of away that one might consider, you
(14:20):
know, putting that moreself-confident mentality into
action consistently.
Yeah, what do you got?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, the other day I was A couple of days ago, maybe
it's two I was Got on Instagramfor a minute to put a piece up
and my friend, dana James,wonderful female New York
painter, had a new piece up andit literally stopped me in my
tracks Like it moved me to tearsinstantly.
You know and this is somethingthat is something I love about
(14:50):
art, because this doesn't happenall the time, like it happens
at times, but it doesn't happenall the time where I see a work
and it just right to the heart,like just open my soul up into
this moment that absolutelygrabbed me and emotionally moved
me to tears and I just satthere looking at it and studying
(15:13):
it and I put it here in ourdocument so that and I know that
you saw it too the other daybut there was just something
about the colors, the depth, hercomposition, the way that she
has hard lines and hard shapes,but then the just that blue
brush stroke across the middlewith the way that the yellows
(15:34):
and the oranges kind of move andflow around it and then it
opens up to the negative spaceat the top that has just little
bits and pieces floating it.
I mean, I'm getting emotionalright now.
It's just such a beautiful,stunning work of art and I've
known Dana for a few years now.
She actually came to Texas for aresidency program and I shot
(15:57):
her a message years ago and saidhey, you're only an hour and a
half from me, can I take you tolunch?
And she was like come on headdown.
So I went over, spent time withher, got to learn just kind of
the way she works, how shecreates her work in the studio.
We spent time in the studio,then we went and grabbed
barbecue and just hung out forthe afternoon and so watching
(16:17):
her progression over time, it'sjust, it's a beautiful piece.
I'm excited for you all to seeit and you definitely need to be
following her.
I'll have the Instagram handlein the video as well, and in our
, in our show notes too, withthe everything else we talk
about.
But it's definitely a piecethat I mean.
It just it's beautiful, it'sincredible.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's called a piece that I mean it just it's
beautiful, it's incredible.
It's called this Lovely LittleWish is the title.
I want to just make a littlenote that that's a great example
of you doing the thing that youanswered in the previous
question of just reaching outright, Cold calling somebody or
whatever, cold DMing somebody,saying, hey, love your work,
would love to meet and talk art.
Right, this piece is phenomenal, and I was thinking about it
because when I saw that you haddropped this in the outline, I
(17:02):
had seen this as well and spentsome time with it too.
I don't know Dana personally,but I follow her on Instagram.
I think this is just one of thebest examples I've seen in
quite some time of just aperfect balance of intention and
control, with sort of thoseintuitive you know free loose
marks that I've, that I've seen.
(17:23):
I mean it's got both and thebalance between them is just
absolutely stunning.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Everything within it works, yeah, in a very emotional
, powerful and beautiful way.
Yeah, well done, dana.
So one more emotional, powerfuland beautiful way.
Yeah, well done, dana.
So one more thing Anotherfriend of mine that I follow
pretty regularly, jonathanTodrick, who's a North Dallas
painter, has some new work thathe's been working on, and I was
(17:51):
sitting here and I was going,gosh, there's so many great
things about these pieces.
I was sitting here and I wasgoing, gosh, there's so many
great things about these pieces.
And it's almost as if RonGorchov, who's currently at Vito
Schnabel Gallery, frank Stellaand Ellsworth Kelly had a baby.
That's where I feel like ifthose three got together and
(18:12):
they had a love child, this iswhat would have came out.
And I'm not an artist whotypically loves shapes or
explosions behind me.
I just did the iPhone explosion.
I wasn't going to see it.
I don't usually love shapes andthis is something I've talked
about with other friends whowill have shapes and paintings
and things.
And I'll say I'm not the bestjudge of this because it's not
something I gravitate towards,but for years Jonathan has
(18:36):
really been playing with in hispaintings, moving from really
big gestural or small gesturalpieces to really deep blends,
almost Rothko-esque type blends,and takes into things, and then
he'll move in and, withoutdifferent shapes, playing with
all these different ideas in hiswork.
Well, he recently just tookthese painting forms that were
(18:58):
in painting and started actuallytaking them from 2D to
three-dimensional objects on thewall, and I just think they're
fantastic, and that's somebodyfor me that I don't usually
gravitate towards shapes orthings, but now that they've
become sculptural, they're justwonderful to me, and every time
I see one that he puts up, it'sjust absolutely captivating to
(19:19):
me, and so I just wanted to givehim a nod because it's
definitely inspired me.
And I think this is what we'retrying to do as artists, and
this is what I'm always tryingto do is how do I continue to
gravitate to the next idea, likewe've talked about, following
the threads that are let loosein all of our work and
continuing them on to new things, new ideas, exploring those
(19:43):
ideas and then finding whatreally works and then running
with it.
And I think Jonathan has reallynailed it here and really gone
from all these different threadsthat were loose in his other
work and then took them to thenew idea and is really starting
to develop it, and it'sabsolutely inspiring to me.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, I don't know Jonathan personally, but I can
imagine that taking that leapfrom the two dimensional to the
three dimensional must've been abig, a big decision, because
there's a lot of a lot that goesinto, you know, making a
transition like that Right.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yep, making the transition and then making it
work, yeah, like making itactually work on the wall.
So well done, jonathanFantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, I hadn't seen these die until you introduced
them to me as we're preparingfor the episode, but one of the
things that really caught myattention and really intrigues
me is just the imperfections inthe shapes.
You know some of these.
You know the circular, you knowshapes take this sort of
angular turn that really, reallypulls the eye in, and, of
course, I'm a sucker for texture, so it looks like they're
almost like a stucco type.
(20:49):
You know texture on them aswell, which is just really
interesting as well.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, and Jonathan, over the years he's played with
cement, he's played with allkinds of different things on top
of canvas and on top of thingsand he's really taken, honestly,
the last five years of his workwith his blends, where he has
things that are going, they gofrom dark to light, the way they
blend and they've got thatrough feel to the outside.
(21:16):
And he's taken all those ideas,the last five, six years of
ideas, and wrap them up intothese pieces.
And I think the next thing forJonathan, just in my eyes as
somebody who looks at work, alot is really now nailing the
lighting, so that shadow nowbecomes a really big part of how
(21:37):
those pieces are displayed in agallery, in a space.
And so I think anytime you movefrom a two-dimensional painting
to even a three-dimensionalwall object, now lighting is
going to take an even largerturn.
And this is something that ourgood friend Alison Hudson and I
have talked about for years now,that how important lighting is
(21:58):
for her work, because her workis delicate.
It's wonderfully delicate in away that if the lighting is not
perfect, you will miss thedetails within the work and
behind the work and what it doeson the wall with shadows.
So I think that's always.
The next big step is startreally playing with lighting and
(22:18):
how you want those to push,pull, move, share the wall or
come completely off the wall,depending on your lighting.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So, moving on to our next segment that we are working
title what I learned.
We can probably do better thanthat as we go here, but what am
I learning?
What am I learning?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn assumes that we can
probably do better than that aswe go here.
But these are just.
What am I learning?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
What am I learning?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah yeah, learned.
Assumes that it's locked inLearning Ding ding ding.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Forever.
So, yeah, these are justlessons, takeaways from our
practice.
What's the work been teachingus?
One of the things that I wantedto share that I've been really
reflecting on recently is justthe importance of identifying
that there's a time to exploreand a time to execute, and as I
approach right at about thetwo-month mark before the work's
(23:05):
got to be shipped to Munich,I'm getting in that very much
execution mode because that'sthe necessity of things, and so
I think I was just thinking alot about, you know, the
difference between you knowreally getting in tune with a
single piece, just going on ajourney, getting lost together
and having that be.
(23:25):
Oh my gosh, it's getting darkout, the day's over and we've
just been just you and me, handin hand, you know, trying to
find our way, versus you knowkind of bouncing around and
fulfilling the necessary taskswhen working on multiple pieces
throughout the day.
One of the things that I foundto be useful in show prep is
(23:46):
having self-imposed deadlines,just different benchmarks along
the way, and so this may havebeen a bit ambitious, but one of
my the upcoming one anyway,deadline that is is to get six
pieces done before my brothercomes in town in about a week
here.
We're going to go go camping upNorth and get some time away
and there'll be a little bit ofa break.
(24:06):
But one of the things that Ifound to be really useful in
this sort of execution phase isa good old fashioned spreadsheet
, which I'm not super inclinedto uh, to use, but I spreadsheet
which I'm not super inclined touse, but I have found that it's
very helpful in sort of justlaying everything out and
identifying.
So I've kind of got my routineas I get into this more
(24:27):
production-based mode, notproduction, but just the volume
of work that I'm aiming to getcompleted.
So doing my morning walkthrough,sitting down with a computer, I
mean I counted up yesterdayI've got about 13 pieces that
I'm actively working on rightnow, and so just the takeaway
for me is that it's important toand I've had to learn this over
(24:50):
time it's important to identifythat there is a feeling that
I'm chasing, when I'm goingafter that sort of dramatic
transformation over the courseof the day.
There's a certain feeling thatI and I think we, get from
having that sort of fulfillmentof this happen today on this
(25:11):
particular piece, and it startedhere and it went all the way
over here and that's exciting,it's fun, it's fresh, but also
acknowledging that there is atime for that sort of like one
foot in front of the other,brick by brick approach, you
know, which often results inmore.
For me, anyway, more consideredwork, one of the things I
learned we've talked about thisin previous episodes, but you
(25:32):
know we've discussed the valueof sitting with the work that
we've completed and really youshared a great story about this
in the last episode.
But identifying like, oh, Ireally love that, what do we
like, what do we not like, whichthreads do we want to pull and
(25:52):
carry them forward.
And so I was looking back at acouple pieces that I had done
for the previous show and Iremembered when they were done
they were early in that sort ofseason or that sort of phase for
that particular show and I wasreflecting back on how, for
whatever reason, the way thatthey were laid out.
These were pieces that weremade over dozens of little micro
(26:16):
sessions, not to get toospecific, but a lot of.
You know I mentioned the resinmoment before placing a lot of
different clues and bits from avariety of different materials
and on any one day.
This is the point, on any onegiven day it might be, you know,
one teeny little moment thatgets added and that day, that
(26:38):
moment of just like ploppingthat little thing on there that
takes up less than 1% of thetotal piece or whatever it might
be, isn't much.
But the cumulative effect, thatsort of again brick by brick
mindset of building things upover time, is really valuable.
So I guess just the takeaway forme is just paying attention to
what works and creating thehabits and the systems that
(26:59):
reinforce them.
I do not love sitting down infront of my laptop really for
much of anything, especially tolay out like here's all the
things I'm doing on.
But I found it to be a veryuseful step in the process to be
able to say all right, likeyesterday I touched and did
something to, I think, seven oreight different pieces.
(27:20):
None of them gave me that sortof excitement or that rush or
that feeling necessarily, butthe cumulative effect over time
is extremely powerful.
So, yeah, just being aware ofwhat works and leaning into
those little habits and routinesthat reinforce those things, I
think is really valuable.
How about you, ty?
What's your practice beenteaching you?
(27:42):
Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Nathan, my pleasure.
I mean things have been so wildfor me the last summer.
I mean I complain about itevery episode we're on this
summer just how hot it is in thestudio.
So I've been doing a lot ofsmall works and I did them to
apply for an exhibition in NewYork.
I got one of the small works inexhibition in New York and then
one at a small museum here inWaco.
(28:03):
And then yesterday I went I'mgoing to do some more and so I
cut 20 small canvases and Istarted working on 20 small
works yesterday, just thinkingthrough ideas for the big
project that I'm going to startpretty soon, which, turning 50,
really makes you sit and thinkabout life it's a monumental age
(28:24):
to hit and kind of thinkingabout the past and where I'm
going and where I've been, and Idecided I'm going to do a body
of work titled 50 Works for 50years, and so I started just
journaling, as you and I doregularly.
I started journaling places, allthe places that I've lived, and
memories from those places.
So smells, sights, people,music, songs, tastes, even like
(28:50):
little things, like ice creamwith my parents and triple
malted crunch ice cream that Iwould get when I was young at
Thrifty Ice Cream in Sacramento,california, like just little
things like that, that, becauseall of those little things bring
in different feelings anddifferent times, and so while
I've been journaling that forideas for creating actual pieces
, I've been going through andlooking at old work and looking
(29:13):
at threads, those loose threads,things.
I think I can carry on to newideas.
But then I had this crazybrainstorm of actually traveling
to all these locations and likea 10 or 20 day kind of road
trip where I went to all theplaces where I grew up and where
my grandparents lived and did a.
It would be the entire state ofCalifornia.
(29:34):
So kind of going up to NorthernCalifornia, working my way down
and filming it and writing inthose areas and spaces and
writing poetry and creatingthoughts and ideas from each of
those locations.
I probably wouldn't go to Chinaor Budapest or Romania which I
would love to, but that costgets a little high but then
using that to really create moreof a story behind the 50 works
(30:00):
and possibly create little bitsof short documentary type ideas
behind how I'm creating the work, why I'm creating it and what's
going into it.
So I've kind of been reallykind of working on those things.
And then, obviously, dana andJonathan's work this week gave
me that even little jolt ofinspiration of, okay, let's go,
we've got to catch up to them.
(30:21):
They're doing some big thingsright, pull that competition
head out of.
Okay, they're moving on, I needto keep moving on, I need to
keep growing, let's go, let's dothis.
And then rejection.
I shared that with you thismorning and I've been sharing it
with a few friends.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I just want to put a little plug in, for you know you
could go full Sean Scully andget yourself a PJ and just fly
you know wherever, wherever youwant.
No, I love your 50 for 50 idea.
I will say this I thought thatI was nostalgic, um, and then I
got to know you and I'm not evenclose on the uhism around
(31:01):
nostalgia and places, people,things.
I love the way you incorporatethat into your work, so I'm
excited to see what you do withthat.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well, and the funny?
I think I told you this theother day.
The funny thing is is I createplaylists right For all the work
that I make all the bodies ofwork, create playlists right For
all the work that I make allthe bodies of work.
And so I thought, okay, I'mgoing to make a playlist of the
best albums from every year I'vebeen alive Like the ones that I
would really like.
And so I sat, I got on the couchthe other day in our library,
at the house, in our readingroom, and I started on 1974.
(31:30):
And so after about three and ahalf hours I went this is
ridiculous, that's an album for50 years, and if that just took
me three and a half hours toresearch the top albums of
different genres for 1974, andthen I added in a Spotify
(31:52):
playlist all the ones that Ireally like, right, I will be 75
by the time I complete thatplaylist.
So I ended up going a differentdirection and I have a playlist
of music that is veryinspirational to me.
It doesn't fit the years, butit's that music that really just
gives me, it just doessomething emotionally, and so
(32:14):
I'm going to work from that.
And then I have an all-timefavorites playlist on Spotify.
That is all of my favoritesongs from my entire life that I
accumulate over time, and soI'll be creating from both of
those, but anyways, yeah, I feellike I cut you off.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
You're about to share something else.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah I was going to say.
And then rejection at times canbe inspiring for me and helps
me learn some things, becausethere was a residency that I
applied for that I really,really wanted.
And now I've learned not tohave big expectations, because
you can really let yourself downand I am a four on the
Enneagram.
So putting really bigexpectations on things and not
getting them can send me into areally dark place for a while.
(32:55):
And I found out this morningthat I was not shortlisted for
the residency and you know, Isat there for a minute and I was
really bummed.
And it's okay to be bummed,it's okay to be down we don't
want to wallow in it for a month, but it's okay to go down.
What?
Why would I?
Now?
Artists, subjective so thepeople choosing the artists
(33:15):
right, they're going to choose.
Hey, I really, this art reallyspeaks to me and this artist, we
feel like we can really investin them, et cetera, et cetera.
And so I kind of went throughthat in my head and then I, you
know, I got really frustratedand went what?
600 hours supplied?
How am I not better than all600 artists?
I kind of had that thought inmy head.
(33:40):
You know as well, which is thatSean Scully moment where I'm
like are you kidding me out of600?
I wasn't the best on there.
And then you go.
You know what I'm going to takethat comment and go well, maybe
I was 599, which means I've gotthat many artists to pass up
and get in the studio and workharder than and do more, and so
that's where I've been reallypushing inward and saying well,
now you just got to be betterfor the next time you apply,
(34:02):
let's make that work jump.
So the next time you apply,maybe they go oh, he applied
last time.
Holy crap, look at the jump inhis work from last year.
Yeah, we need to take a chancewith him.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think the I really want to highlight what you did
with that, with that feelingthat this is a.
It's a great example ofsomething we've certainly talked
about before, but just like youdidn't I mean you you sat in as
long as you are you four with athree or four to five when on
the Enneagram.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I don't remember.
You have to ask me and you haveto ask my wife.
She knows she's the Enneagramexpert.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Okay, I'm going to guess three, but um, I, uh, I'm
a three with the four wing.
So anyway, for those of youthat are familiar with the
Enneagram, but it's interestingAnyway, the the the point there.
You didn't just sit in it andand feel the feels and let that
slow you down.
You ultimately were able tochannel that into useful fuel to
(34:59):
get to work right.
Yeah, we're all going to facerejection.
We're all going to have thosemoments and those feelings.
So, yeah, so you have developedthe habit of doing something
with it Is that something youthink you've always had, or is
that something you think you'vehad to learn over time?
No, it's learned.
It's very learned.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Because I used to.
In the Enneagram you talk aboutyour shadow self, which is the
false self.
You have your true self andyour false self in the Enneagram
when you're at your best, whenyou're at your worst, and so I
used to just wallow in it so Iwould fall into very, very deep
fits of depression and unhealthyways and channel it in
(35:38):
unhealthy ways and so.
But I've definitely learned,and part of that learning is
talking about it.
So called, my wife talked toher instantly because she was
excited, so we'd had to moveoverseas for 15 months if we got
it.
So we were kind of thinkingthrough how that would work and
that stuff, and so she was, ofcourse, bummed for me how that
would work and that stuff.
And so she was, of course,bummed for me.
(35:58):
But then I, I called, uh, myfriend Kasia Krakica and I sent
her a message on Marco Polo andmy friend Vino and Gianna
Tassone, and then talk to you aswell.
So I vented to my friends in ahealthy way.
Not terribly, it was like gosh,I really wanted this, I'm
really bummed, but okay, I gotto work harder.
Now I need to step this up.
But I had to let it out tomultiple people and I think that
(36:20):
really helped me breathe.
Yeah, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
No, I love that.
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
That's a great segue into.
I've got one little takeaway.
Um, that will, that will closewith.
But just what to do with things, you know, when they come up.
There's a quote that I'vereally been spending a lot of
time with, to Nietzsche quote.
I feel like we've quotedNietzsche like in the last six
episodes running, but this one'sjust perfect.
It's, and most people haveprobably seen it already, but
(36:46):
the essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude.
The essence of all art isgratitude.
I'm shortening it and I don'tknow.
There are a number of differentinterpretations and I'm not.
We don't need to spend, youknow, 30 minutes dissecting this
, but for me, the takeaway isjust the more time that I can
(37:07):
spend in gratitude, like, oh, Imean, goodness, we get to do
this, you know, yeah.
Whether it's whatever, whateveryou are, our dear listener,
whatever your situation is,whether it's, you know,
full-time or just here and thereor once in a great while, like
we, we have the ability, theluxury of, of making art which
(37:29):
we could also argue is is, youknow, for most of us a necessity
to get some of those things out.
But just the more that I canget back to that place, the more
that we I'll speak for both ofus can get back to that place of
gratitude of like, wow, I mean,this is just like we get to do
this.
You know, this is a it's such a, it's such a tremendous, you
(37:50):
know gift, such a tremendous,you know blessing to be able to
be able to you be able to dothat.
And there are a couple ofthings that, for me, are
fundamental, especially as I getinto.
You opened up a vein, I will aswell.
There seems to be a reoccurringtheme every time I'm preparing
for a show, which is oh shit,this is going to suck, Nothing's
(38:12):
working.
You know what I mean.
And and it and it's justbecause there is that, that hard
deadline, right, like what.
In the absence of that, it'slike ah, you know, it's the
work's moving along and whatever.
But you know, when there is ahard stop to like hey, this
stuff needs to be created up andit's got to get through customs
and blah, blah, blah, like it's, it's gotta be done'm tired,
(38:37):
when something's not working,when I'm frustrated, getting
back to that like hey, trustingin the process, getting back to
gratitude, is so, so huge.
So for me, what that looks likein terms of just like the daily
habits is journaling.
I had to refresh my stock ofMoleskine so I got a couple more
of these I had for a while.
I had like seven or eightdifferent like journals that
(38:58):
were like not completely full,sort of floating around that I'd
have to like dig up and find soagain, just like making it easy
and removing the barrier entryto be able to do that
consistently.
So one at the studio here andone you know at home.
But also, just like you know,meditation.
You know we've talked aboutthis, you know before as well,
but I actually pulled a quote.
I've mentioned this book abunch of times, I feel like on
(39:18):
the podcast this um catching thebig fish by David Lynch.
But I wanted to read a quote andthat really just brings us home
in terms of, you know,meditation specifically for the
creative.
Uh, this is from page 99.
If you've got the book, it'ssuch an easy read because
there's just little little minis.
I'm going to read an entiresection of the book, that's
that's like a paragraph and ahalf, but this is titled a tower
(39:41):
of gold.
So he writes how doesmeditation get rid of negativity
?
Picture it this way you are theempire state building.
You've got hundreds of roomsand in those rooms there's lots
of junk, and you put all thatjunk there.
Rooms, and in those roomsthere's lots of junk, and you
put all that junk there.
Now you take this elevator,which is going to be the dive
within, and you go down belowthe building.
(40:01):
You go to the unified fieldbeneath the building pure
consciousness, and it's likeelectric gold.
You experience that, and thatelectric gold activates these
little cleaning robots.
They start going, they startcleaning the rooms.
They put in gold where the dirtand junk and garbage were.
These stresses that were inthere, like coils of barbed wire
(40:24):
, can unwind, they evaporate,they come out.
You're cleaning and infusing.
Simultaneously.
You're on the road to abeautiful state of enlightenment
.
He's such a great writer.
I just love the way he thinksand puts different ideas.
But I thought that was worthsharing.
I just think it's so true.
(40:44):
I mean, there's so manydifferent thought goblins that
just take up residence and fillup these rooms with junk, as he
puts it.
And so having that practice Imean again those two things for
me journaling and meditatingwhen I'm down, when I'm
depressed if I can set aside 20minutes, I can do both of those
(41:04):
things in 20 minutes.
They are undefeated, one or theother or both.
To get back to that place ofgratitude and to be able to
create from a place of abundancerather than scarcity, it's huge
.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, those are soul care moments that we talk about
a lot, and the reason we talkabout a lot is because it's so
important.
You need to do those things.
One of my artists in my programcurrently we were talking about
soul care and just what do youneed to do to breathe deeply and
feel alive?
When you have a job thatrequires a lot of hours, that's
(41:41):
very stressful, and all you wantto do is make art, yeah, and
you just don't have the time todo it.
You've got to find moments to,like she did yesterday went out
on the beach in Chicago andwalked into the water.
You know what I mean.
Like went into the lake andfelt the water and then
collected things to use in herartwork while she was out there,
you know, on the lake, and soit was like just that.
(42:05):
Those moments can help you torefocus, reevaluate.
But also you know that there'sa difference between a deep
breath.
When everything is fine andyou're not stressed and you
don't have pressure, you canreally feel it in your lungs.
You're breathing from down,deep within, not just from up.
(42:25):
Here you're breathing your fulldiaphragm breathing, and then,
when you're really stressed andyou do that, you can feel it's
kind of a shorter breath.
It just just feels kind ofuncomfortable.
And that's what soul carereally does.
In a picture of what it does,it makes everything around you
feel like a really deep, cleanbreath, with no pressure.
So go out, do something.
(42:48):
What do you need for soul care,artists?
What is it that you?
For me, it's just going andsitting at a coffee shop,
sometimes with a book and a cupof coffee, and just sitting and
just writing.
For me, writing, like Nathan,journaling, writing poetry.
I write a lot of poetry beingoutside, just observing people,
observing nature, and justwriting poetry.
That makes me a new person,makes me a new person almost
(43:10):
instantly sometimes.
So, whatever it is for you, godo it, go find it, find those
moments to do that.
It's important.
I don't know about you.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Ty, but it's it's really hard for me to to do
those.
It's hard for me to set downthe sword, you know, and stop
fighting and just be.
You know I we've talked aboutthe Enneagram, so I'll reference
it again, like that's part ofthe sort of achiever mindset
that is the the whatever.
My inherent wiring is as a, asa three is like keep pushing,
(43:39):
keep pushing.
You know, when I'm in thatfalse self, I'm believing the
lie that I am only okay, that myidentity lies in what I do not.
You know who I am, and so whenI'm in that stressful place, my
nature is to just keep grip iteven tighter and keep pushing
and keep trying to makesomething happen, as opposed to
just taking a breath, taking amoment.
(44:02):
I mean the ROI.
The return on investment forthese very small little things
is tremendous, but we have to dothem.
I think that pretty much wraps.
You got anything else for us?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yes, no, I was just going to say in closing.
Yeah, I was going to say inclosing what's inspiring you?
Let us know.
We want to know.
Yeah, let us know on Instagram.
Share a picture or a piece ofart that inspires you with us on
Instagram.
Or let us know what's inspiringyou lately, what's driving you
in the studio, what's somethingyou've come across that's made
you just go wow, like it did forme with Dana James piece.
(44:40):
Like what is it?
We want to know.
We love seeing new things andlearning what's inspiring
everybody else.
So, holler at us, holla, okay,all right.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
See you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Have a good week, bye , bye, love it time.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Have a good week.
Bye, bye, love it, love it.
Like you said, I love it, loveit, but I didn't, I didn't feel
it, so maybe I'll just.
I'll just close that love itlove it fucking love it, dude.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
That's amazing.
Oh, what, what, what, what,what, what.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com