November 28, 2024 • 19 mins
Can an artist truly live without creating? Join us as Ty Nathan Clark explores this compelling question and offers an intimate view of his creative journey while Nathan prepares for his much-awaited exhibition in Munich alongside the talented Kit King. Through the lens of cherished literary works by Lewis Hyde and Rainer Maria Rilke and the poetic brilliance of Theodore Roethke and Allen Ginsberg, Ty shares insights into the transformative power of turning inward for inspiration. Together, we unravel the essence of inviting past artistic influences into our work, embracing the natural flow of creativity, and celebrating the raw authenticity that emerges when we connect with our inner selves and nature.
This episode is a heartfelt celebration of the artist's journey, filled with profound reflections and inspiring moments. Ty delves into the necessity of pursuing art as an intrinsic need and the value of self-discovery and solitude in fostering true creative expression. Highlighting a captivating encounter with artist Edward Povey, we discuss the importance of focusing on the soul and authentic creativity over seeking external approval. Let this conversation inspire you to prioritize your genuine artistic vision and find solace in the undeniable magic of creation.
Books:
The GIft: Creativity and the Artist in the Modern World - Lewis Hyde
Letter to a Young Poet- Rainer Maria Rilke
A Small Porch: Wendell Berry
Where Nathan is Showing in Munich January 2025:
https://www.benjamin-eck.com
Kit King:
https://www.kitkingart.com
Edward Povey:
https://www.instagram.com/edwardpovey
Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!
Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:
@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
well, I'm alone today yes, it's just me, ty as we are
approaching here in the statesthanksgiving and nathan is in
the studio working on lastminute changes and last minute
updates, photographing his workand prepping everything for his
upcoming exhibition in Januaryin Munich, germany, at the
(00:32):
Benjamin Eck Gallery with theamazing artist Kit King.
If you don't know Kit King, youshould definitely check her out
.
I mean, her work is absolutelyinsane.
I cannot wait to see photos ofthis exhibition.
This is a massive one forNathan.
It's super exciting.
He is in the mix big time andif you have prepped for solo
(00:56):
exhibitions, group exhibitions,where you've had multiple works,
you know that there is a lot ofthings to get done in that
process before you ship work out.
And for Nathan, of course, hiswork is quite heavy each piece,
so he's got to get that stuffcrated up and shipped over the
pond to Germany, and so that'sin January and you'll hear a lot
(01:16):
more about that coming up fromus and probably in the next
episode we'll discuss that alittle bit too.
And his preparations anddeadlines and just the grind and
the pressure of getting workready with a deadline for a show
.
So I thought I'd jump on thisweek, since we don't really have
the ability for Nathan and I todo one of our normal episodes.
(01:37):
So I'm going to jump on and I'mjust going to read a few things
to you that inspire me from mypast and things that really do
mean a lot to me from twospecific books.
I'm going to be reading fromthe Gift, a book by Lewis Hyde.
It's titled the Gift Creativityand the Artist in the Modern
World Absolutely fabulous book.
I will definitely put both ofthese books in the show notes as
(02:01):
well, and I'm going to read afew things out of the Gift.
I'm going to read somethingfrom Theodore Retka and I'm
going to read something fromEllen Ginsberg so both poets,
both who have won multipleawards for their poetry and
their writing over the years,and so I'm excited to read just
two little inspirational bitsout of that book.
(02:22):
And then I'll be reading fromRainier Maria Rilke's Letters to
a Young Poet another one of myfavorite books, and I'm excited
to read a little bit about thatas well.
And then I'm going to jump intosomething that I also came
across today that reallyinspired me and discuss that a
little bit too.
So, all right, let's getrolling as I jump into the gift
(02:46):
by Lewis Hyde, these twosections here.
This is from a Theodore Retkalecture that says I was in that
particular hell of the poet, alongish dry period.
It was 1952.
I was 44 years old and Ithought I was done.
I was living alone in a biggishhouse in Edmonds, washington.
(03:07):
I had been reading andrereading not Yeats but Raleigh
and Sir John Davies.
I'd been teaching the five-beatline for weeks.
I knew quite a bit about it,but write it myself, no.
So I felt myself a fraud.
Suddenly in the early evening,the poem, the dance started and
finished itself in a very shorttime, say 30 minutes, maybe in
(03:30):
the greater part of an hour.
It was all done.
I felt I knew I had hit it.
I walked around and I wept andI knelt down I always do after
I've written what I know is agood piece.
But at the same time I had, asGod is my witness, the actual
sense of a presence, as if Yeatshimself were in that room.
(03:52):
The experience was in a wayterrifying, for it lasted at
least a half an hour.
That house, I repeat, wascharged with a psychic presence.
The very walls seemed toshimmer.
I wept for joy.
He, they, the dead poets, theywere all with me.
Wow, I know we've talked aboutthis at times, the fact that I
(04:17):
love to invite my dead peers, myheroes, my idols, into the
studio with me on a regularbasis.
And I do feel as if there aretimes when I just really hit a
piece, like I really nail it,just like Retka's saying there,
and I feel like they're allsurrounding me and cheering and
clapping and talking about thepiece with me.
(04:38):
So when I read that momentyears ago, it just blew me away.
And then he goes on to say suchmoments of unwilled reception
are not all there is to thecreation of the work of art.
Of course, notice Rettke, I'dbeen teaching the five beat line
for weeks.
All artists work to acquire andperfect the tools of their craft
(04:58):
and all art involves evaluation, clarification and revision.
But these are secondary asks.
They cannot begin, andsometimes they must not begin,
until the materia, the body ofthe work, is on the page or on
the canvas.
The Kula prohibition onspeaking of the value of the
(05:20):
gift has its equivalent in thecreative spirit.
Premature evaluation cuts offthe flow.
The imagination does not barterits engendering images.
In the beginning, we have nochoice but to accept what has
come to us, hoping that thecinders some forest spirit saw
fit to bestow may turn to goldwhen we have carried them back
(05:42):
to the hearth.
Allen Ginsberg has been ourconsistent spokesman on that
phase of work in which theartist lays evaluation aside so
that the gift may come forward.
This is Ginsberg.
The parts that embarrass you themost are usually the most
interesting poetically, areusually the most naked of all,
(06:06):
the rawest, the goofiest, thestrangest and the most eccentric
and at the same time mostrepresentative and most
universal.
That was something I learnedfrom Kerouac, which was that
spontaneous writing could beembarrassing.
The cure for that is to writethings down which you will not
(06:26):
publish, which you will not showpeople, to write secretly, so
you can actually be free to sayanything you want.
It means abandoning being thepoet, abandoning your careerism,
abandoning even the idea ofwriting any poetry.
Really abandoning Giving up ishopeless Abandoning the
(06:47):
possibility of really expressingyourself to the nations of the
world, abandoning the idea ofbeing a prophet with honor and
dignity and abandoning the gloryof poetry and just settling
down in the muck of your ownmind.
You really have to make aresolution just to write for
yourself, in the sense of notwriting to impress yourself, but
(07:09):
writing what yourself is sayingWow, that's pretty incredible.
Sometimes we just need tocreate for ourselves and only
ourselves, even if it's awful,even if it's shitty, even if it
embarrasses the hell out of you,who cares?
(07:30):
Nobody's going to see it, butyou.
That's how to be completelyfree and what might come out of
that.
That's how to be completelyfree and what might come out of
that.
We don't know what's going tocome out of that, because we
don't do that very often, but Ilove those little clues from
Kerouac that he taught toGinsburg, that Ginsburg just
then took to his poetry, thatcollaborative element, that
(07:51):
network, that friend, thatconfidant that you can talk back
and forth with and take thosethings back to your studio.
It's just absolutely incredible, man.
I love that.
It's just beautiful.
I want to now go to one of myfavorite passages in Letters to
a Young Poet by Rainier MariaRilke, who's one of my favorite
(08:13):
poets, and honestly I wasn't toosure what I was going to talk
about today, but I was sittingon my couch this morning at 5 am
with my little puppy, cash, whowas sleeping on my lap, and I
was reading Wendell Berry poetrythis morning one of the best
nature poets that has everexisted, very, very deep,
(08:34):
spiritual poet, who writesincredibly about nature and
things around him and I was like, oh man, I got to share some
from Rilke because he's also oneof my favorite poets.
And so this book is actuallyletters that Rilke is writing to
a young poet who went to thesame academy as him and I think
(08:55):
this poet was 19 years old atthe time and discovered some of
Rilke's works and knew thatRilke went to the same military
academy that he did, and so,after reading some of Rilke's
work and really becoming a fanboy of his poetry, he decided to
write a number of letters toRilke asking him for advice, and
I know we've talked about thisbook multiple times.
(09:16):
For Nathan and I it's veryinfluential.
And so this is a letter in 1903, okay, in Paris that Rilke
writes back after the poet askedsome questions about getting
noticed and the audiencerecognizing him.
The audience recognizing him.
(09:36):
Here we go.
You ask whether your verses areany good.
You ask me you have askedothers before this you send them
to magazines, you compare themwith other poems and you are
upset when certain editorsreject your work.
Now, since you have said youwant my advice, I beg you to
stop doing that sort of thing.
(09:58):
You are looking outside, andthat is what you should most
avoid.
Right now, no one can advise orhelp you no one.
There is only one thing youshould do Go into yourself.
Find out the reason thatcommands you to write.
See whether it has spread itsroots into the very depths of
(10:18):
your heart.
Confess to yourself whether youwould have to die if you were
forbidden to write this.
Most of all, ask yourself inthe most silent hour of your
night must I write?
Dig into yourself for a deepanswer.
And if this answer rings out ina scent, yourself for a deep
(10:39):
answer.
And if this answer rings out inassent, if you meet this solemn
question with a strong, simpleI must then build your life in
accordance with that necessity.
Your whole life, even into itshumblest and most indifferent
hour, must become a sign and awitness to this impulse.
Then come close to nature.
Then, as if no one has evertried before, try to say what
(11:01):
you see and feel and love andlose.
Don't write love poems.
Avoid those forms that are toofacile and ordinary.
They are the hardest to workwith.
Rescue yourself from generalthemes and write about what your
everyday life offers.
You Describe your sorrows andyour desires, the thoughts that
(11:22):
pass through your mind and yourbelief in some kind of beauty.
Describe all these withheartfelt, silent, humble
sincerity.
And when you express yourself,use the things around you, the
images from your dreams and theobjects that you remember.
And if your everyday life seemspoor, don't blame it.
Blame yourself.
(11:44):
Admit to yourself that you arenot enough of a poet to call
forth its riches, because forthe creator there is no poverty
and no poor, indifferent place.
And even if you found yourselfin some prison whose walls let
in none of the world's sounds,wouldn't you still have your
childhood, that jewel beyond allprice, that treasure house of
(12:07):
memories?
Turn your attention to that.
Try to raise up the sunkenfeelings of this enormous past.
Your personality will growstronger, your solitude will
expand and become a place whereyou can live in the twilight,
where the noise of other peoplepasses by far in the distance.
And if out of this turningwithin, out of this immersion in
(12:30):
your own world, poems come,then you will not think of
asking anyone whether they aregood or not.
A work of art is good if it isarisen out of necessity.
That is the only way one canjudge it.
So, dear sir, I can't give youany advice, but to do this Go
into yourself and see how deepthe place is from which your
(12:51):
life flows.
At its source, you will findthe answer to the question of
whether you must create.
Accept that answer just as itwas given to you, without trying
to interpret it.
Perhaps you will discover thatyou are called to be an artist.
Then take that destiny uponyourself and bear it its burden
(13:12):
and its greatness, without everasking what reward might come
from the outside, for theCreator must be a world for
themselves and must findeverything in themself and
nature, to whom your whole lifeis devoted.
But after the descent intoyourself and into solitude,
perhaps you will have torenounce becoming a poet.
(13:33):
If, as I have said, one feelsone could live without writing,
then you shouldn't write at all.
Nevertheless, even then, thisself-searching that I ask of you
will not have been for nothing.
Your life will still find itsown paths from there, and that
may be good, rich and wide.
That's what I wish for you morethan I can say.
(14:22):
No-transcript, wow, wow.
That is one of the mostpowerful pieces of literature
writing advice I've ever read inmy life and he's basically
saying can you live withoutmaking art?
Can you live without creating?
(14:42):
If you can't, then chase it,run after it, go for it with all
your being.
And if you can't find anythingto create from, if you get
stumped, if you hit a dry spell,go back into your memories,
your childhood memories, andpull from there and I love how
(15:03):
he says and get close to nature,get outside, go for a walk
around the lake, go to the beach, the mountains, walk around the
city, get out into nature, sitby a tree, bring your journal,
gosh, I mean, I can't tell youthe impact that that has on the
soul.
And everything he's talkingabout is the soul, that deepness
(15:23):
, that depth of things that comewhen we're completely inhabited
with ourselves and everythingaround us and paying attention.
I love that.
It's just.
Oh man, every time I read it,it's just.
It hits me harder and harderand harder.
And what is the really big thingto take from that?
Quit asking, quit caring aboutwhat other people think about
(15:46):
your work.
Sure, we want the audience togive its approval and tell us
what they think of our work, butdon't let that be your focus.
Don't worry about the likes onInstagram.
Don't worry about how manypeople are commenting on your
pieces when you show them.
Don't worry about that.
Just make freaking art.
Anyways, get that book.
I highly recommend it.
I'll have it in the show notesagain as well.
(16:07):
You're going to hear us talkabout it probably quite a bit
over the next hour long.
We do this podcast, so thismorning I came across this
incredible moment from theartist Edward Povey I think
that's how you pronounce itP-O-V-E-Y.
Edward Povey, probably Poveyand it blew me away, so I'm
(16:29):
going to play it for you.
You're going to hear him say itand then I'll discuss it for a
minute after that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
If an artist's goal, if their ultimate goal, is to
really reach people, reach otherhuman beings, then the only way
to do it is to forget aboutthem completely.
Forget about them.
We don't know others.
(16:57):
We can never know the masses,the public.
We can never know them.
So forget about them, becausethe only way to them is to make
paintings that come completelyfrom yourself and your own world
, your own experience of being ahuman being, and that is
(17:25):
something that most human beingson the planet will be able to
relate to.
So forget about them.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I listened to that probably 20 times this morning
and I just kept going back tothat as I was thinking about
what Ginsburg and what Retkasaid, and then what Rilke said
as well, and I was just thinkingabout, like you know what?
Why do?
Why are we so concerned withthe follow?
Why are we so concerned withthat social media audience?
(17:54):
Why are we so concerned withall of the people around us?
And I just had to kind of thinkabout that myself, like forget
about the masses, forget aboutthe follow, forget about those
things.
Make paintings that comecompletely from myself, that
come completely from my world.
When you are devoid of all ofthe focus on the outward and you
(18:20):
start to completely focus onthe inward and you create from
there, most human beings willrelate to that and they will
show up.
They will start to show up.
So something to really reallythink about.
That's my closing thoughts foryou Go inward, forget about the
(18:40):
outward.
People will be drawn to that,because that's where truth comes
from, that's where real comesfrom.
I hope you have an incredibleholiday for those of you in the
States.
I hope that you have anincredible rest of the week and
weekend to everybody else aroundthe world.
Thank you so much for listeningto us.
We'll be back with regularscheduled programming in two
(19:02):
weeks where Nathan and I'll beback together talking about some
really fun stuff that we haveprepped for you.
So check us out on all placesyou can podcast and make sure to
watch us on YouTube.
You can watch all of our videobroadcasts from each episode,
where I put some fun B-roll andthings in often and we will see
you soon, say hi.
(19:22):
We'd love to say hi and chatwith you.
We'll see you soon.
Have a great week.
Bye.
well, I'm alone today yes, it's just me, ty as we are
approaching here in the statesthanksgiving and nathan is in
the studio working on lastminute changes and last minute
updates, photographing his workand prepping everything for his
upcoming exhibition in Januaryin Munich, germany, at the
(00:32):
Benjamin Eck Gallery with theamazing artist Kit King.
If you don't know Kit King, youshould definitely check her out
.
I mean, her work is absolutelyinsane.
I cannot wait to see photos ofthis exhibition.
This is a massive one forNathan.
It's super exciting.
He is in the mix big time andif you have prepped for solo
(00:56):
exhibitions, group exhibitions,where you've had multiple works,
you know that there is a lot ofthings to get done in that
process before you ship work out.
And for Nathan, of course, hiswork is quite heavy each piece,
so he's got to get that stuffcrated up and shipped over the
pond to Germany, and so that'sin January and you'll hear a lot
(01:16):
more about that coming up fromus and probably in the next
episode we'll discuss that alittle bit too.
And his preparations anddeadlines and just the grind and
the pressure of getting workready with a deadline for a show
.
So I thought I'd jump on thisweek, since we don't really have
the ability for Nathan and I todo one of our normal episodes.
(01:37):
So I'm going to jump on and I'mjust going to read a few things
to you that inspire me from mypast and things that really do
mean a lot to me from twospecific books.
I'm going to be reading fromthe Gift, a book by Lewis Hyde.
It's titled the Gift Creativityand the Artist in the Modern
World Absolutely fabulous book.
I will definitely put both ofthese books in the show notes as
(02:01):
well, and I'm going to read afew things out of the Gift.
I'm going to read somethingfrom Theodore Retka and I'm
going to read something fromEllen Ginsberg so both poets,
both who have won multipleawards for their poetry and
their writing over the years,and so I'm excited to read just
two little inspirational bitsout of that book.
(02:22):
And then I'll be reading fromRainier Maria Rilke's Letters to
a Young Poet another one of myfavorite books, and I'm excited
to read a little bit about thatas well.
And then I'm going to jump intosomething that I also came
across today that reallyinspired me and discuss that a
little bit too.
So, all right, let's getrolling as I jump into the gift
(02:46):
by Lewis Hyde, these twosections here.
This is from a Theodore Retkalecture that says I was in that
particular hell of the poet, alongish dry period.
It was 1952.
I was 44 years old and Ithought I was done.
I was living alone in a biggishhouse in Edmonds, washington.
(03:07):
I had been reading andrereading not Yeats but Raleigh
and Sir John Davies.
I'd been teaching the five-beatline for weeks.
I knew quite a bit about it,but write it myself, no.
So I felt myself a fraud.
Suddenly in the early evening,the poem, the dance started and
finished itself in a very shorttime, say 30 minutes, maybe in
(03:30):
the greater part of an hour.
It was all done.
I felt I knew I had hit it.
I walked around and I wept andI knelt down I always do after
I've written what I know is agood piece.
But at the same time I had, asGod is my witness, the actual
sense of a presence, as if Yeatshimself were in that room.
(03:52):
The experience was in a wayterrifying, for it lasted at
least a half an hour.
That house, I repeat, wascharged with a psychic presence.
The very walls seemed toshimmer.
I wept for joy.
He, they, the dead poets, theywere all with me.
Wow, I know we've talked aboutthis at times, the fact that I
(04:17):
love to invite my dead peers, myheroes, my idols, into the
studio with me on a regularbasis.
And I do feel as if there aretimes when I just really hit a
piece, like I really nail it,just like Retka's saying there,
and I feel like they're allsurrounding me and cheering and
clapping and talking about thepiece with me.
(04:38):
So when I read that momentyears ago, it just blew me away.
And then he goes on to say suchmoments of unwilled reception
are not all there is to thecreation of the work of art.
Of course, notice Rettke, I'dbeen teaching the five beat line
for weeks.
All artists work to acquire andperfect the tools of their craft
(04:58):
and all art involves evaluation, clarification and revision.
But these are secondary asks.
They cannot begin, andsometimes they must not begin,
until the materia, the body ofthe work, is on the page or on
the canvas.
The Kula prohibition onspeaking of the value of the
(05:20):
gift has its equivalent in thecreative spirit.
Premature evaluation cuts offthe flow.
The imagination does not barterits engendering images.
In the beginning, we have nochoice but to accept what has
come to us, hoping that thecinders some forest spirit saw
fit to bestow may turn to goldwhen we have carried them back
(05:42):
to the hearth.
Allen Ginsberg has been ourconsistent spokesman on that
phase of work in which theartist lays evaluation aside so
that the gift may come forward.
This is Ginsberg.
The parts that embarrass you themost are usually the most
interesting poetically, areusually the most naked of all,
(06:06):
the rawest, the goofiest, thestrangest and the most eccentric
and at the same time mostrepresentative and most
universal.
That was something I learnedfrom Kerouac, which was that
spontaneous writing could beembarrassing.
The cure for that is to writethings down which you will not
(06:26):
publish, which you will not showpeople, to write secretly, so
you can actually be free to sayanything you want.
It means abandoning being thepoet, abandoning your careerism,
abandoning even the idea ofwriting any poetry.
Really abandoning Giving up ishopeless Abandoning the
(06:47):
possibility of really expressingyourself to the nations of the
world, abandoning the idea ofbeing a prophet with honor and
dignity and abandoning the gloryof poetry and just settling
down in the muck of your ownmind.
You really have to make aresolution just to write for
yourself, in the sense of notwriting to impress yourself, but
(07:09):
writing what yourself is sayingWow, that's pretty incredible.
Sometimes we just need tocreate for ourselves and only
ourselves, even if it's awful,even if it's shitty, even if it
embarrasses the hell out of you,who cares?
(07:30):
Nobody's going to see it, butyou.
That's how to be completelyfree and what might come out of
that.
That's how to be completelyfree and what might come out of
that.
We don't know what's going tocome out of that, because we
don't do that very often, but Ilove those little clues from
Kerouac that he taught toGinsburg, that Ginsburg just
then took to his poetry, thatcollaborative element, that
(07:51):
network, that friend, thatconfidant that you can talk back
and forth with and take thosethings back to your studio.
It's just absolutely incredible, man.
I love that.
It's just beautiful.
I want to now go to one of myfavorite passages in Letters to
a Young Poet by Rainier MariaRilke, who's one of my favorite
(08:13):
poets, and honestly I wasn't toosure what I was going to talk
about today, but I was sittingon my couch this morning at 5 am
with my little puppy, cash, whowas sleeping on my lap, and I
was reading Wendell Berry poetrythis morning one of the best
nature poets that has everexisted, very, very deep,
(08:34):
spiritual poet, who writesincredibly about nature and
things around him and I was like, oh man, I got to share some
from Rilke because he's also oneof my favorite poets.
And so this book is actuallyletters that Rilke is writing to
a young poet who went to thesame academy as him and I think
(08:55):
this poet was 19 years old atthe time and discovered some of
Rilke's works and knew thatRilke went to the same military
academy that he did, and so,after reading some of Rilke's
work and really becoming a fanboy of his poetry, he decided to
write a number of letters toRilke asking him for advice, and
I know we've talked about thisbook multiple times.
(09:16):
For Nathan and I it's veryinfluential.
And so this is a letter in 1903, okay, in Paris that Rilke
writes back after the poet askedsome questions about getting
noticed and the audiencerecognizing him.
The audience recognizing him.
(09:36):
Here we go.
You ask whether your verses areany good.
You ask me you have askedothers before this you send them
to magazines, you compare themwith other poems and you are
upset when certain editorsreject your work.
Now, since you have said youwant my advice, I beg you to
stop doing that sort of thing.
(09:58):
You are looking outside, andthat is what you should most
avoid.
Right now, no one can advise orhelp you no one.
There is only one thing youshould do Go into yourself.
Find out the reason thatcommands you to write.
See whether it has spread itsroots into the very depths of
(10:18):
your heart.
Confess to yourself whether youwould have to die if you were
forbidden to write this.
Most of all, ask yourself inthe most silent hour of your
night must I write?
Dig into yourself for a deepanswer.
And if this answer rings out ina scent, yourself for a deep
(10:39):
answer.
And if this answer rings out inassent, if you meet this solemn
question with a strong, simpleI must then build your life in
accordance with that necessity.
Your whole life, even into itshumblest and most indifferent
hour, must become a sign and awitness to this impulse.
Then come close to nature.
Then, as if no one has evertried before, try to say what
(11:01):
you see and feel and love andlose.
Don't write love poems.
Avoid those forms that are toofacile and ordinary.
They are the hardest to workwith.
Rescue yourself from generalthemes and write about what your
everyday life offers.
You Describe your sorrows andyour desires, the thoughts that
(11:22):
pass through your mind and yourbelief in some kind of beauty.
Describe all these withheartfelt, silent, humble
sincerity.
And when you express yourself,use the things around you, the
images from your dreams and theobjects that you remember.
And if your everyday life seemspoor, don't blame it.
Blame yourself.
(11:44):
Admit to yourself that you arenot enough of a poet to call
forth its riches, because forthe creator there is no poverty
and no poor, indifferent place.
And even if you found yourselfin some prison whose walls let
in none of the world's sounds,wouldn't you still have your
childhood, that jewel beyond allprice, that treasure house of
(12:07):
memories?
Turn your attention to that.
Try to raise up the sunkenfeelings of this enormous past.
Your personality will growstronger, your solitude will
expand and become a place whereyou can live in the twilight,
where the noise of other peoplepasses by far in the distance.
And if out of this turningwithin, out of this immersion in
(12:30):
your own world, poems come,then you will not think of
asking anyone whether they aregood or not.
A work of art is good if it isarisen out of necessity.
That is the only way one canjudge it.
So, dear sir, I can't give youany advice, but to do this Go
into yourself and see how deepthe place is from which your
(12:51):
life flows.
At its source, you will findthe answer to the question of
whether you must create.
Accept that answer just as itwas given to you, without trying
to interpret it.
Perhaps you will discover thatyou are called to be an artist.
Then take that destiny uponyourself and bear it its burden
(13:12):
and its greatness, without everasking what reward might come
from the outside, for theCreator must be a world for
themselves and must findeverything in themself and
nature, to whom your whole lifeis devoted.
But after the descent intoyourself and into solitude,
perhaps you will have torenounce becoming a poet.
(13:33):
If, as I have said, one feelsone could live without writing,
then you shouldn't write at all.
Nevertheless, even then, thisself-searching that I ask of you
will not have been for nothing.
Your life will still find itsown paths from there, and that
may be good, rich and wide.
That's what I wish for you morethan I can say.
(14:22):
No-transcript, wow, wow.
That is one of the mostpowerful pieces of literature
writing advice I've ever read inmy life and he's basically
saying can you live withoutmaking art?
Can you live without creating?
(14:42):
If you can't, then chase it,run after it, go for it with all
your being.
And if you can't find anythingto create from, if you get
stumped, if you hit a dry spell,go back into your memories,
your childhood memories, andpull from there and I love how
(15:03):
he says and get close to nature,get outside, go for a walk
around the lake, go to the beach, the mountains, walk around the
city, get out into nature, sitby a tree, bring your journal,
gosh, I mean, I can't tell youthe impact that that has on the
soul.
And everything he's talkingabout is the soul, that deepness
(15:23):
, that depth of things that comewhen we're completely inhabited
with ourselves and everythingaround us and paying attention.
I love that.
It's just.
Oh man, every time I read it,it's just.
It hits me harder and harderand harder.
And what is the really big thingto take from that?
Quit asking, quit caring aboutwhat other people think about
(15:46):
your work.
Sure, we want the audience togive its approval and tell us
what they think of our work, butdon't let that be your focus.
Don't worry about the likes onInstagram.
Don't worry about how manypeople are commenting on your
pieces when you show them.
Don't worry about that.
Just make freaking art.
Anyways, get that book.
I highly recommend it.
I'll have it in the show notesagain as well.
(16:07):
You're going to hear us talkabout it probably quite a bit
over the next hour long.
We do this podcast, so thismorning I came across this
incredible moment from theartist Edward Povey I think
that's how you pronounce itP-O-V-E-Y.
Edward Povey, probably Poveyand it blew me away, so I'm
(16:29):
going to play it for you.
You're going to hear him say itand then I'll discuss it for a
minute after that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
If an artist's goal, if their ultimate goal, is to
really reach people, reach otherhuman beings, then the only way
to do it is to forget aboutthem completely.
Forget about them.
We don't know others.
(16:57):
We can never know the masses,the public.
We can never know them.
So forget about them, becausethe only way to them is to make
paintings that come completelyfrom yourself and your own world
, your own experience of being ahuman being, and that is
(17:25):
something that most human beingson the planet will be able to
relate to.
So forget about them.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I listened to that probably 20 times this morning
and I just kept going back tothat as I was thinking about
what Ginsburg and what Retkasaid, and then what Rilke said
as well, and I was just thinkingabout, like you know what?
Why do?
Why are we so concerned withthe follow?
Why are we so concerned withthat social media audience?
(17:54):
Why are we so concerned withall of the people around us?
And I just had to kind of thinkabout that myself, like forget
about the masses, forget aboutthe follow, forget about those
things.
Make paintings that comecompletely from myself, that
come completely from my world.
When you are devoid of all ofthe focus on the outward and you
(18:20):
start to completely focus onthe inward and you create from
there, most human beings willrelate to that and they will
show up.
They will start to show up.
So something to really reallythink about.
That's my closing thoughts foryou Go inward, forget about the
(18:40):
outward.
People will be drawn to that,because that's where truth comes
from, that's where real comesfrom.
I hope you have an incredibleholiday for those of you in the
States.
I hope that you have anincredible rest of the week and
weekend to everybody else aroundthe world.
Thank you so much for listeningto us.
We'll be back with regularscheduled programming in two
(19:02):
weeks where Nathan and I'll beback together talking about some
really fun stuff that we haveprepped for you.
So check us out on all placesyou can podcast and make sure to
watch us on YouTube.
You can watch all of our videobroadcasts from each episode,
where I put some fun B-roll andthings in often and we will see
you soon, say hi.
(19:22):
We'd love to say hi and chatwith you.
We'll see you soon.
Have a great week.
Bye.
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