December 26, 2024 • 38 mins
What if embracing uncertainty could unlock your artistic potential? Inspired by Jack Whitten’s "Notes from the Woodshed," Nathan Terborg embarks on a reflective journey through the philosophical depths of creativity and doubt. This episode unpacks Whitten’s profound insights, shared through compelling quotes and personal anecdotes, revealing how his struggles with self-doubt and conviction resonate with our own artistic journeys.
Nathan navigate's the beauty of complexity and the transformative power of journaling, drawing from Whitten’s 1987 journal entries. This episode emphasizes the significance of acknowledging emotions and using journaling as a tool for growth and introspection. By exploring Whitten's creative process, we highlight how embracing the daunting feeling of starting over can lead to profound artistic breakthroughs. The artist dive's into personal experiences of vulnerability, illustrating how recognizing our starting points allows us to move forward with intention, despite the shadows of uncertainty.
Our journey continues with an exploration of Whitten’s artistic intention and innovative techniques. Delving into his creative process reveals how intentionality and evolution drive artistic expression and how unconventional tools can become refined techniques. We reflect on the power of self-coaching and the potential benefits of documenting intuitive experiments. As we wrap up, the transformative potential of journaling stands out as a beacon for personal and professional insight, encouraging listeners to maintain clarity of vision while confronting challenges and negativity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
I find most painters just wandering, following the
look of some style which they donot understand, but they still
follow like cattle to theslaughtering pen.
Nothing pleases me except myown paintings now, not even the
upper ech echelon.
Yes, enjoyed the last Nolanshow and the last Frankenthaler
show, but you know, not moved,not moved.
I have no more heroes.
(00:33):
Money still remains my onlyproblem.
I cannot paint now for lack ofmoney.
I have no paint, no canvas, andI am hot.
My mind is liable.
My eyes can see the evidence ofbrightness and pigment.
I have a vision I can see itvery clear.
That is one of countlessamazing quotes from this book
(00:55):
called Notes from the Woodshedby Jack Whitten.
It has quickly become one of myfavorite books ever.
You could say I'm obsessed withit.
I'll go ahead and say it I'mobsessed with this book, and
when I say obsessed, I mean, youknow, not in like the current
use of that word, overuse.
I'm going to say I saw an ad onInstagram the other day and it
(01:17):
started with I'm obsessed withthese socks.
And maybe they are, I don'tknow.
I mean, who am I to say thatthey are not obsessed with?
You know socks, but in myunderstanding of that word.
I'm obsessed with this book inthat it is consuming a healthy
percentage of my thoughts.
(01:37):
It's changed the way.
It's impacting the way I thinkabout my work.
You know, my studio time, mypractice and just life as a
whole.
This book was recommended to meby a friend of mine named Jamel
Wright, who goes by art, thenew religion on Instagram.
Go give him a follow.
His work's tremendous and he'san awesome human being as well.
There's something about I don'tknow what it is about great
(02:00):
books, you know, but they have away of finding you where you're
at.
You know, I think that theinputs that we give ourselves
externally are always impacted,of course, by our internal
experience.
Right Like, our antenna is upfor certain things, and this has
definitely met me right whereI'm at at this time.
So I'm just really excited toshare a bunch of quotes from
(02:22):
this book and just kind of someways that it's impacting me, and
hopefully you'll find somevalue in that as well.
It's just me today.
My amazing co-host, ty NathanClark, is not, you know, not
here.
It's just that's.
That's what just me means.
I suppose he's done a great jobof carrying the load,
especially these last couplemonths when I've been putting in
(02:42):
some 60, 70, couple of 80 hourweeks in preparation for a show.
So he's done a few of thesesolo episodes and it is beyond
my turn to do one as well.
So Ty is reading this book aswell and I'm pretty sure he
loves it almost as much, maybeas much as I do.
So we're definitely going to domultiple episodes together on
(03:05):
this book as well.
But for today it's just me, andI'm excited to share a whole
bunch of just absolute gems fromMr Witten.
So let's jump in with anotherone.
This is from Paige.
I'm going to share the pagenumbers here, just in case you
already have the book, or maybeyou go back and re-listen to
this once you have acquired itsomehow.
But this is from page 135.
(03:26):
He writes I don't want to admitthat I'm lost or confused, it's
just that I don't understandwhy I'm doing paintings of this
sort.
Have I crossed over to anothersphere of painting?
The light is so clear,brilliant, just like in Crete.
The color commands the pictureplane.
The whole canvas becomes anicon of color, bathed in the
(03:47):
light of resurrection.
I am scared, frightened ofsomething that's very beautiful.
May God help me, for I don'tknow of any other source of
comfort.
My art has become a vehiclewhich puts me in the presence of
the Godhead.
I am the process.
So much of this book containsjust real.
(04:08):
The depth of reflection, theintelligence, the philosophy of
this man was absolutelyextraordinary, and you know some
of these I'm just going to readand not even comment on,
because anything that I wouldadd would just, you know, sort
of there's nothing I could addthat would enhance what has
(04:30):
already been written.
I'm going to go ahead and jumpto another quote.
This is from page 150.
As an artist, I merely presentand dare not explain.
I have no desire to explain oroffer explanations for what I do
.
Those people who are capable ofseeing will see, and the others
must be content with the trashof our technological society.
(04:51):
As we progress into technology,so will our desire to see
increase.
A demand for an art form whichdeals with vision is in the
making.
As an artist wanting to improvemy lot in life, I must seize
the time and present myself asan artist of vision, skipping
over a little bit and thenjumping to the next page.
(05:13):
Am I just to accept thisevolution or reject it?
If I do reject it.
Am I to continue doing scrapepaintings?
Something in the back of myhead says to use the past 10
years in order to be moresure-footed.
My eye is well-trained now, andalso my hand.
My ability to make decisions isstronger than ever.
Have I been placing too muchemphasis upon the new?
(05:35):
I've always been aware withdiscrete paintings that they
were new in a New York sense ofbeing new.
There is so much doubtassociated with painting.
I am forever questioning myself, doubting my performance.
I make in order to tear down,but the making and tearing down
produces a painting.
I must make a painting, destroya painting, in order to paint a
(05:58):
painting.
One of my biggest takeaways fromreading Witten's words is just
the complete comfort he seemedto have in sitting in the
balance between uncertainty andconviction, because there's a
lot of both in these words.
(06:19):
Revisiting the quote that Ijust shared a moment ago, I am
forever questioning myself,doubting my performance, and
then, two paragraphs later, Imust seize the time and present
myself as an artist of vision.
So there's both in equalmeasures uncertainty and
conviction, and what I loveabout that is it just comes from
(06:41):
a place that starts from aplace, to me, of I don't know
where this will take me, but Ibelieve it will be somewhere
great.
Again, that's just myinterpretation.
I could be wrong, but that'swhat I take from this is, you
know, that idea of I don't knowwhat the fuck I'm doing right
now.
These are again my words, notJack's, but that is a feeling
(07:03):
that I often, frequently, almostdaily, experience, especially
when I'm in the studio andholding on to a belief that,
whatever this, the challenges ofthe day, the things that I
might be working on, whateverthis is right now, a belief that
it's going to become somethinggreat, and so that comfort in
(07:28):
sitting in uncertainty is reallyimportant.
This is from pages 192 and 193,studio Log 1987.
And what's beautiful, some ofthese entries are just one
sentence.
So, 2nd April of 1987, theworst possible scenario is when
your own mind betrays you, fastforwarding to the 12th of
(07:50):
September.
It's extremely complicated andextremely simple at the same
time.
So, again, like I read theseand I think this is somebody
who's so comfortable in sittingin that uncertainty and just
being okay with it's both ofthose things.
It is both extremelycomplicated and extremely simple
(08:10):
at the same time, and that'sokay.
I don't know about you, but Ispend an extraordinarily
unnecessary volume of energytrying to answer unanswerable
questions and feeling a sense ofunease that I don't have the
(08:31):
answer, and, man, that'scrippling.
So what's inspiring aboutreading Witten's words is just
this is somebody who figured outhow to really sit with both of
those opposing ideas, both ofthose feelings at the same time
and not fight either one.
(08:52):
Again, this is just mysubjective response and thoughts
about about these words.
I'm not going to pretend tounderstand.
Um, you know who he was orwhere he's coming from.
This is just conjecture on mypart, but I will say that,
having read this journal, you doget to feel as though you
really do.
You know, know who he was andhow he thought and what he did
(09:15):
with those ideas and emotionsand experiences and how it
translated into his work.
So again, you'll hear me saythis probably five more times
before I'm done here.
But go get this book and readit.
Let's jump back to that quotefrom page 151.
Let's revisit that quote frompage 151.
There's something else I wantto unpack with that.
Am I just to accept thisevolution or reject it?
(09:37):
If I do reject it, am I tocontinue doing scrape paintings?
Something in the back of myhead says, to use the past 10
years in order to be moresure-footed.
So part of my hope with thisepisode and with this book and
the takeaways from it are that,if journaling is not currently a
(09:59):
part of your practice, thatit's something that you strongly
consider starting, because Ithink and I've been journaling
somewhat consistently for Idon't know probably 1520 years
now, off and on, and if you lookback through witness journals
there's, there's some sectionsthat are that are totally
missing, you know.
But I think one of the things inmy own lived experience that I
find to be extremely, not justuseful but necessary, is the
(10:23):
power of acknowledging what isright, like reading these words
this is, this is him.
This is what I'm feeling, thisis what I'm thinking, this is
what I'm experiencing, this ishow I'm processing what's going
on, you know, with the work, andI think that there's just
tremendous power inacknowledging this is what's
going on right now.
(10:43):
And and I'll just be our lastepisode with last episode with
Ty and I was on vulnerability.
I'll attempt to be vulnerablehere and just share, like this
is something I personally reallystruggle with, like I would
consider myself to beemotionally challenged in that I
push against a general sense ofick like ick, like something
(11:06):
icky.
I'm feeling something you know,without taking the time to
really identify and sit with itand identify.
You know what it is.
I mean, it's usually somederivative of a fear-based
emotion.
But until we take that honestappraisal of what's happening
with us, the person making thework and then, by extension, the
(11:28):
work that's being made, there'spower in identifying and
acknowledging here's where I'mat, here's where the work is at,
this is what's actuallyhappening.
Because until we get to thatplace, there's really we're
extremely limited in what we cando.
Going forward, we have toacknowledge where are we
starting from, where is here,and so acknowledging what is
(11:52):
allows us to take that next stepforward with real intention,
having really thought throughwhat that starting point is and
where we might be headed andwhere we might be wanting to go.
Let me read another example ofthat.
This is from page 182.
He writes I am back to zero.
Tonight I cut up a large circlecomposed of a circle grid and
threw it out.
I was completely bored with thepain, taking involvement of
(12:16):
executing all these dots.
I cut it up and threw it out,the only thing I have to salvage
from the past 15 years is thefact of the hard backing, the
bringing of the floor up to thewall.
This is meaningful.
Perhaps I've had more.
I've learned a lot.
I've grown to hate severalthings in the process of
learning.
I'm going to read that again.
I've grown to hate severalthings in the process of
(12:36):
learning.
I want to start 1986 with aclean slate.
Of course, this destroys anychance of getting a gallery.
No one is interested in anartist at the end of a series
and beginning a completelyunknown beginning.
All right.
So how many times have you feltas though you're back to zero?
How many times have you felt asthough you've got to completely
(12:58):
start over, as thougheverything that has come before
this is an absolute waste oftime and energy?
I certainly have recently.
That's a.
That's a reoccurring feeling,for for me and I think, a lot of
other, you know creatives andhumans that I've, that I've
talked to, like this is a commonthing, and you know, what's
really interesting is that andthis is this is something that I
(13:21):
recommend while while readingthis book, if you choose to is
you know you read these entriesand if all you had was the
impression from this book.
You might think that this is anartist who isn't making much of
any work or isn't making workthat could be considered good.
But then you cross-referencethe work that he was making
(13:44):
during this period and you'reabsolutely blown away.
Now I'm speaking as somebodywho absolutely loves Witten's
work and I'm just a massive fan.
So there honestly isn't a lotthat he did that I'm not pretty
enamored by.
But I think it's reallyimportant to realize, in spite
of how he felt during thosetimes, he was still showing up
(14:06):
the next day and making work,some of which proved to be
timeless and extraordinary, youknow.
And so I just think about thepower that comes from writing
that down Again now we'retalking about, you know, our own
lived experience here, thepower of seeing the words.
You know again, I have no ideawhat his experience, you know.
Again, I have no idea what hisexperience, you know, was when
(14:27):
he saw that written out.
But I think it's really, reallyimportant to take the time to
do that Again.
I said I was going to bevulnerable, so I and I do have
stacks and stacks of thesejournals laying all over the
place.
This is from about three yearsago.
I'm just going to read this.
I don't want to, but whatever.
Okay, what is so stressfulabout my internal state that I
(14:50):
require de-stressing?
I am worried about silly things.
I'm worrying about winningsilly games, the online
popularity contest of socialmedia.
It's not so much the popularity, it's the validation it can
offer that my art is legitimate,that I have a shot at making it
as an artist, that I can get myachievement fix here, that I am
(15:13):
valuable.
That's a difficult thing to seewritten down.
Quite sad really, but trueenough to acknowledge.
Okay, that was writing somethings down that were real at
the time and I might cut, Imight edit this out.
I don't know if I'll share thisor not, but okay, I am
(15:34):
personally need to see thingswritten out to even really grasp
what I'm feeling.
You know, I talked a momentbefore about just the sort of
general sort of sense of icklike that, that, that uh general
disease, and when I writethings down, when I sit, when I
I mean I remember I I tend tolike log where I'm at.
(15:55):
So I was at a coffee shopSaturday morning.
Daughter was at at softballpractice waiting for it to get
done.
I remember that.
So I was at a coffee shopSaturday morning, daughter was
at softball practice waiting forit to get done.
I remember that day.
I remember that day because Iwrote this down.
I wouldn't otherwise, but Iremember how I was feeling.
I can probably, if I reallythought about it or tracked it
back, think about what I wasgoing through or what I was
responding to at that time.
But what's so valuable about thepractice of journaling and what
(16:18):
reading Witten's journals havereminded me of and given more
clarity to, is just that once wesee that, once we acknowledge
what's actually there, then wecan actually do something about
it.
And I think you know we talkabout this all the time.
And if there's one thing I'vesaid, probably more than
anything else on this podcast,is just reminding reminding all
of us that it's not just you,it's not just me.
(16:39):
You think you're the only one,you think it's unique to you
that you're frustrated, thatthings aren't working out, that
you feel like you're back tozero.
Read the words of the absolutelegends and be reminded of the
fact that it's not just you,that this is a common part of
the experience.
This is a, a, an ingredient, a,necessary, necessary.
(17:00):
I don't know about that.
It is a common, extremelycommon component of of this
experience.
You know, and I think it's it's.
It's so easy to fall into thetrap of believing that our
heroes, the people that we wouldput on our uh, the, the, the
greats, the people that we lookup to and say, yeah, wow, if
only I could do somethinganything close to what they've
(17:23):
done.
It's so easy to fall in thetrap of thinking that they
didn't have the same strugglesthat we had.
I talked before about.
You know what it would be liketo just read these words and how
easy it would be to concludethat the work that was happening
during that time, you know,might not have been that great.
So the opposite is also true,right.
If we think about theexperience of, you know, walking
(17:46):
through a gallery, through amuseum, you know, paging through
art books and seeing thesetremendous masterpieces, it
would be easy to conclude thatthings were just flowing, that
everything they made that yearwas that good, when, in
actuality, that may have beenthe only thing of dozens of
hundreds that made its way outof the studio that even exists,
(18:10):
you know, today, in the, in thepublic record, right?
So when I read about Witten'sexperiments, when I find these
quote exam, when I read aboutWitten's experiments, when I
find these quote exam.
So again, just that conclusionthat not only has someone else
and a whole collection of otherpeople who have come before and
are doing it now areexperiencing the same or similar
(18:32):
things.
One of the best to ever do itdid so by extension.
It's okay that we are too.
It's not just me, it's not justus.
And another really usefulobservation and, I think,
benefit of journaling and attimes, revisiting some journal
entries.
I did that in preparation forthis episode.
(18:52):
I might share another one orthe first one, depending upon
whether or not I decided toleave that first share in, but
it's.
It's recognizing our ownpatterns, you know, I mean the
number of times that certainideas and themes represent
themselves in this book.
Again, over years, over decades, we get to see and we get to
(19:17):
remember oh, I've been herebefore.
I have.
Wait a minute.
This is pattern recognition,right?
Wait a minute, I've been herebefore.
This looks familiar.
And hold on, what happened.
Oh, it all worked out In someform or fashion.
It all worked out because we'rehere, right, even if it didn't
work out in the traditionalsense or the way that we
(19:38):
might've hoped it to.
We still learned something andhopefully we've taken whatever
we might've learned from thatexperience into what we're
experiencing now.
But I have that all the timewhere I write something down and
it's like, oh yeah, wait aminute, I've, I've, I've seen
this hand right, these wordsthat came out of this head
before, and hold on whathappened.
Oh yeah, I figured it out, ohyeah, it ended up being okay.
(20:02):
So our own pattern recognition,that own, you know, when we
capture these are all littledata points.
These are all little, you know,time capsules, but over time,
as we collect them, as we logthem, they tell a story and
armed with that information,we're much more equipped to move
forward.
All right, let me read somemore quotes here.
(20:25):
Jack's words are undoubtedlymore interesting than mine.
He writes this is from page115,.
The paintings are beginning toclarify themselves.
It is something about systems.
The last painting, taf 2,taught me a lesson.
One step of the system dealswith my applying thick Aquatec
white with a stiff bristle brush.
There we go.
(20:45):
It is too haphazard, too muchcalligraphy, a carryover from my
earlier paintings.
I want something more definiteas content, something more
thematic or recognizable.
I'm experimenting on TAF 3 withstring and pieces of rag torn
from one of Andrew's old shirts.
My reasoning is that I cancontrol the amount of thickness
and shape.
Therefore I should be able toadd or subtract by using
(21:07):
different weights of materials.
I think it's important that Ilist the individual steps of my
system.
I'm not going to read all ofthem, but there's I don't know
probably 15 different steps.
So he outlines his process forthis particular piece.
So I wanted to share thatbecause and I just I put the
biggest smile on my face when Istarted to see and this, this
reoccurs throughout, throughouthis journal entries in the book
(21:29):
but just listing out thedifferent steps, the what, but
also the why, the here's whatyou know I'm doing to achieve
certain effects, to try and getto where I'm trying to go, but
then also the why behind it.
So let me read from page 120.
My show opens on the 4th ofApril.
I have five paintings.
I'm only pleased with three ofthose five and I need at least
(21:51):
six.
My thinking moves so fast thatI can only produce two paintings
that are absolutely about thesame problems.
When one problem is solved andI see it before on the canvas, I
become bored.
I cannot produce six paintingsof the same idea.
I am not cookie cutter.
My thinking is not stationary,but moves along at a very rapid
rate.
Therefore, each painting is arepresentation of a particular
(22:13):
idea.
The plastic concept unifies thecomplete works, but the content
of each painting could changedrastically at will.
In other words, I canassimilate any idea into my
(22:33):
system, which is actually thematter or raw material.
This matter can be used in anumber of different ways.
Matter is what unifies thewhole.
All plastic elements areconceived through matter.
For me, I want this rawmaterial to be my playpen, a
means of doing anything I wishto exercise every fantasy, myth,
every feeling of the absurdwithin my grasp.
(22:56):
So what I love about that andthese are on subsequent pages
from the same entry.
So it's the what, but it's alsothe why.
Here's what I'm doing andhere's why I'm doing it.
Here's what I'm hoping to,here's what he's hoping to
achieve, you know, with thatparticular technique.
So, naming the system as oftoday and, as I read from one of
those previous entries,understanding it just needs to
(23:18):
be true.
For today, this just needs tobe.
This was just a system forright now, understanding that we
may very well throw today'ssystem out the window tomorrow,
but we've got something thatworks, that is functional for
right now.
We understand what we're doingand we have an idea, at least
for the moment, of why we'redoing it.
It's incredibly powerful.
I want to share another exampleof both the what and the why.
(23:40):
This is from pages 86 and 87.
I must achieve a matte surface.
The rib paintings areimpossible to see with a gloss
surface.
Tomorrow I will experiment withusing gesso as a final pour,
(24:12):
which should give me a mattesurface.
Skipping ahead surface, a spacethat exists solely through
surface.
No attempt at overlappingplacement or perspective.
The space comes out of thesurface and then he gets more
into the, what I'll skip for now.
Jumping ahead, I take my cuefrom nature.
Even with color I take my cuefrom nature, presenting an
(24:33):
all-over tonal range withoccasional patches of hue.
I want to put the fear of God inthese paintings.
I want to put the fear of Godin these paintings.
I want to evoke a spiritual,magical, cosmic existence with a
material connection,emotionally charged.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know whatI can add to that other than
just like that just blows meaway.
(24:53):
And every time I read it andI've read it and reread it a
number of times, it's just likeit's inspiring no-transcript and
I think that again, just tobeat this idea to death.
But there's so much intention inthese words, there's so much
(25:19):
thought, and I mean you thinkabout how much time, over 50
plus years, was spent thinkingabout the process, how much time
he spent in the studio.
He spent in the studio and atany given checkpoint along the
way.
And you look at Witten's work,which evolved and changed, I
(25:40):
mean tremendously, over time.
He was always iterating, alwaysthinking about how to
communicate what he wanted tocommunicate, and I think that
this is a big reason why orreason, I guess, how he was able
to do that right Is reallythinking about here's what I'm
doing and here's why I'm doingit in whatever sequence, and in
having that informationavailable, because he logged it
the ability to make intentionaladjustments along the way.
(26:01):
So really, you know what Wittenteaches us through these words
is just how to think about ourwork, how to understand what
we've done so far, to the extentthat it can be understood, and,
even more importantly, how tothink about where to take things
next.
I'm going to read another quotefrom page 54.
From the top.
(26:23):
It's like a book club.
I really hope that one personat some point is like actually
that'd be super neat, okay, andwe read on from page 54.
Second, I've had the feelinglately to do something new, ie
another way of handling paint.
To my knowledge, no one hasarrived at an image by using a
flooring chisel to chip awaypaint, but no one had used a
(26:46):
carpenter's saw either, or ashoeshine brush or an afro comb
or a plumber's plunger.
Maybe I've been doing somethingnew all along without knowing
it.
I love that.
I love that for a lot ofreasons, but I just I think
that's so beautiful and youthink about like, so this is
where the writing takes the sortof intuitive in the moment, you
(27:07):
know thing that I'm, that I'mtrying, I'm just going to go
ahead and guess that all thedifferent materials that he just
or tools he just listed offwere not things that were on his
list of tools for that day.
Right, I could be wrong, butI'm just going to go ahead and
guess that you know the way thatthat he chose to use those
tools in that moment were, youknow, intuitive.
And oh hey, there's a shoeshinebrush.
(27:27):
Let me grab that real quick,and again, I'm just speculating.
I don't know for sure, but Iwould be shocked if everything
they needed in the studio wasplanned in advance, right?
So my point is that incapturing these things and
writing them down, he was ableto take those intuitive you know
, in the moment, you know spurof the moment ideas and oh,
(27:48):
let's just try this and see whathappens Turn those intuitive
experiments into systems, intothings that could be recreated,
replicated and refined over time.
This might be an all-timerecord of quotes shared in an
episode, page 95.
The paintings have changed.
It's impossible for me tocontrol them.
(28:09):
Sometimes I wonder who or whatis doing the controlling.
I have three paintings of onething and four paintings of
something else and one ofsomething else.
I must learn to accept changeas being inherent with my type
of structure.
It is not a cookie cutterconcept.
One must allow for change,however rapid, as long as it is
within the original boundaries.
(28:31):
Skip in a paragraph.
Whatever it is that I'm workingwith, I have merely scratched
the surface.
If that it is something soelusive, so infinite in its
ability to change, to avoidbeing structured or placed in
category.
Sometimes it is thick,sometimes thin, always existing
within obvious extremes,sometimes thin, always existing
(28:52):
within obvious extremes,sometimes transcending all
extremes and sometimes existingin the extreme middle of
opposite obvious extremes.
I guess it truly is the extrememiddle.
I'm going to reread the partthat I have double underlined
and highlighted.
I must learn to accept changeas being inherent with my type
of structure.
(29:13):
A lot of what sticks out to methroughout this book and
throughout his different entriesare things that he is saying to
himself, and I think that it'ssomething that I definitely
recognize in my own journals andI think other people.
Like you know, we acknowledgewhat is and then we sort of like
tell ourselves I don't knowwhat could be.
(29:34):
We, you know, hopefully get toa point where we can find some
hope in where things are at andwhere things could be and where
things could go, and coachourselves up a little bit.
You know, one of the things Ihad written down from this was
just, there are a lot ofbenefits of intentional self
(29:56):
delusion.
Again, this is my own takeawayfrom this.
This is nothing that hereferences specifically, but I
think, you know, let at bestneutral that's kind of the
starting point, right, and giventhat our internal state is
integral in our ability to dothe work that we are meant to do
(30:21):
, then the practice of decidingwhat is so, at least for today,
and then doing something with itis really important.
You know the, the, the?
I had a good friend of mine froma long time ago who always said
he was so good at just coachinghimself up and just like being
his own biggest cheerleader.
(30:41):
You know, and, and I said once.
I said, man, you're so good atjust pumping yourself up, and he
said, listen, if you're notgoing to be your own biggest
cheerleader, then who is Cause?
I'm with me all the time.
I was like, wow, that isextremely true and extremely
powerful.
Right?
If we're not going to be ourown biggest cheerleader, if
we're not going to, in this case, decide what's true for now,
(31:05):
write it down, declare it forourselves, then no one else is
going to do it for us.
Here's another example of that,from page 127, from the bottom
the common man must bleed inorder to experience change.
I choose art.
I am not the common man.
I have sympathy for him, but Iam not willing to abandon my art
for his cause.
The greatest success for me asan artist is my recognition by
(31:29):
the common man.
I don't expect this, neithernow or in the future.
So I must accept my isolationin society, but in accepting, I
promise to live in a matterworthy of my value.
My plan is to continue my workand enjoy myself as much as
possible within my means.
To me as I read that, that ishim telling himself what's true
(31:52):
for that day.
But when it's all said and done, the only thing that really
matters is what's next?
And what am I about, like, whatam I trying to do here?
And so again, what I love, whatI'm obsessed I mean like really
obsessed, not sock obsessedwith this book and with Witten's
words are just his ability tocontinuously acknowledge what is
(32:16):
, no matter how confused orfrustrated he might have been in
that moment, but then also getto the place of here's the what,
but also here's the why.
Here's what I'm about, here'sthe truth as I see it in this
moment, and from that placeboldly moving forward into
whatever's next.
That's powerful, I mean, that'sinspiring, all right.
(32:41):
So I said before I was going toshare a couple of different
journal entries and I was tryingto find something that I was
okay with sharing, but I thinkit's useful to now that we've
spent some time with the wordsand thoughts of a genius just to
give some examples of adefinite not genius and I'm
referring to myself.
(33:01):
So this is just something thatI wrote, this I don't know about
a year or so ago, and I foundthis in one of my journals and I
think it sort of brings thispoint home.
But I wrote this can still befun, this can still stir my soul
.
Just because there's lots to do, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy
the process, and this is inpreparation for a previous show.
(33:23):
Everything will be exactly whatit's supposed to be.
As I sit here and look at thesepieces the work that is
complete and the work that stillneeds work.
It is special.
It is saying exactly what Iwant it to say.
Everything is coming togetherexactly the way it's supposed to
.
Everything has led me here.
Every single thing has set meup and prepared me for this.
(33:45):
I am more equipped than everbefore to make my best work.
So far, all right.
So I had to speculate on whatJack may or may not have been
thinking or feeling when I readhis words.
The reason I wanted to share myown is because I don't have to
guess.
I can tell you exactly what Iwas feeling at that time,
because it was just a year ago,it was before a show, and I
think I'm going to tie a coupleof things together here,
(34:05):
hopefully.
I was completely stressed.
I didn't believe any of thosethings that I just read until I
wrote all the shit that I wasfeeling this is all garbage,
this isn't going to work out,it's not going to be done in
time, no one's going to show up,no one's going to like it.
I mean, that's the noise thatwas going on in my head.
(34:26):
I wrote that stuff down, Iacknowledged what was already
there and then got to a pointwhere I was able to arrive at a
version of what I hoped to bethe truth, and I spent time with
that.
And there's other things Iwrite down that you know.
I write things.
You know I think if they wereshared would sound gross,
egotistic, self-inflated,braggadocious, like I mean.
(34:48):
I write those things downbecause I need to see them, I
need to again be my own bestcheerleader and I think that's
super valuable.
I don't know exactly what Jackwas thinking when he wrote these
words, but certainly some ofthese big, bold statements that
he made.
I don't know if he shared themwith anybody at the time think
(35:11):
they were probably published orshared with a broad audience,
because he didn't have a broadaudience at that time but he
wrote those things down, hebelieved that they were true and
he kept that vision close.
So, in closing here, what is thepoint of journaling?
My goal here today was to dotwo things.
One was to get you to buy thisand read this book.
So hopefully at least some ofyou will go out and do that,
because if you love it half asmuch as I do, you'll still love
(35:34):
it a whole bunch.
You might also find yourselfobsessed with this book.
My second goal with today'spodcast was to just kind of
reiterate the value ofjournaling for all of us, and
what it does is we learn aboutour practice, we learn about our
process, we learn about whatwe're trying to say and we
(35:55):
learned about about ourselves.
I mean, I can only speak formyself, but like I learned about
myself when I see thingswritten down, it came from my,
from my head, my heart, throughmy hand on the paper.
I see it.
I'm like, oh, that's what'sreally going on and that's
powerful, that's extremelypowerful, and I think what I
just closed on too, or what Ijust mentioned, and just to the
(36:15):
value and the importance ofidentifying what the vision is
and holding that vision close,when we're able to get clear
about our vision, about whatwe're trying to accomplish, to
protect it, to keep it in theforefront of our thinking.
And I think that does a coupleof things.
I think, proactively, it helpsus to see the forest for the
(36:36):
trees, to keep the big picturein mind, to be able to have some
perspective around what'shappening in the moment, which
may or may not I mean most casesfor me probably isn't going
perfectly.
So it proactively gets us in astate where we're thinking about
things from a properperspective and I think,
(36:56):
reactively, it can also act as atreatment for those low moments
to be able to revisit thethings that we wrote down, that
we believe to be true aboutourselves, about our work, about
what we're trying to accomplish.
And it doesn't provide immunityto the negative thoughts
creeping into the things thatwe're trying to accomplish.
And it doesn't provide immunityto the negative thoughts
creeping into the things thatwe're all going to experience as
human beings that prevent usfrom, you know, being in that
(37:19):
perfect state or being in a goodstate, you know, to be able to
do what we've been put here todo, but it does provide some
defense, you know, against that,and so I'm going to close with
that.
I think again get this book,read it, buy it.
We're going to do a bunch morepods on this.
Ty and I are, and I think thisis going to be our last.
Yeah, this is, I don't need tothink, I try not to.
(37:41):
As a matter of fact, this isdefinitely going to be our last
podcast of 2024.
So, on behalf of Ty and myself,the holidays, happy new year.
We cannot wait.
We've got a bunch of excitingthings in store for 2025.
So, with that being said, wewill talk to you next year.
I find most painters just wandering, following the
look of some style which they donot understand, but they still
follow like cattle to theslaughtering pen.
Nothing pleases me except myown paintings now, not even the
upper ech echelon.
Yes, enjoyed the last Nolanshow and the last Frankenthaler
show, but you know, not moved,not moved.
I have no more heroes.
(00:33):
Money still remains my onlyproblem.
I cannot paint now for lack ofmoney.
I have no paint, no canvas, andI am hot.
My mind is liable.
My eyes can see the evidence ofbrightness and pigment.
I have a vision I can see itvery clear.
That is one of countlessamazing quotes from this book
(00:55):
called Notes from the Woodshedby Jack Whitten.
It has quickly become one of myfavorite books ever.
You could say I'm obsessed withit.
I'll go ahead and say it I'mobsessed with this book, and
when I say obsessed, I mean, youknow, not in like the current
use of that word, overuse.
I'm going to say I saw an ad onInstagram the other day and it
(01:17):
started with I'm obsessed withthese socks.
And maybe they are, I don'tknow.
I mean, who am I to say thatthey are not obsessed with?
You know socks, but in myunderstanding of that word.
I'm obsessed with this book inthat it is consuming a healthy
percentage of my thoughts.
(01:37):
It's changed the way.
It's impacting the way I thinkabout my work.
You know, my studio time, mypractice and just life as a
whole.
This book was recommended to meby a friend of mine named Jamel
Wright, who goes by art, thenew religion on Instagram.
Go give him a follow.
His work's tremendous and he'san awesome human being as well.
There's something about I don'tknow what it is about great
(02:00):
books, you know, but they have away of finding you where you're
at.
You know, I think that theinputs that we give ourselves
externally are always impacted,of course, by our internal
experience.
Right Like, our antenna is upfor certain things, and this has
definitely met me right whereI'm at at this time.
So I'm just really excited toshare a bunch of quotes from
(02:22):
this book and just kind of someways that it's impacting me, and
hopefully you'll find somevalue in that as well.
It's just me today.
My amazing co-host, ty NathanClark, is not, you know, not
here.
It's just that's.
That's what just me means.
I suppose he's done a great jobof carrying the load,
especially these last couplemonths when I've been putting in
(02:42):
some 60, 70, couple of 80 hourweeks in preparation for a show.
So he's done a few of thesesolo episodes and it is beyond
my turn to do one as well.
So Ty is reading this book aswell and I'm pretty sure he
loves it almost as much, maybeas much as I do.
So we're definitely going to domultiple episodes together on
(03:05):
this book as well.
But for today it's just me, andI'm excited to share a whole
bunch of just absolute gems fromMr Witten.
So let's jump in with anotherone.
This is from Paige.
I'm going to share the pagenumbers here, just in case you
already have the book, or maybeyou go back and re-listen to
this once you have acquired itsomehow.
But this is from page 135.
(03:26):
He writes I don't want to admitthat I'm lost or confused, it's
just that I don't understandwhy I'm doing paintings of this
sort.
Have I crossed over to anothersphere of painting?
The light is so clear,brilliant, just like in Crete.
The color commands the pictureplane.
The whole canvas becomes anicon of color, bathed in the
(03:47):
light of resurrection.
I am scared, frightened ofsomething that's very beautiful.
May God help me, for I don'tknow of any other source of
comfort.
My art has become a vehiclewhich puts me in the presence of
the Godhead.
I am the process.
So much of this book containsjust real.
(04:08):
The depth of reflection, theintelligence, the philosophy of
this man was absolutelyextraordinary, and you know some
of these I'm just going to readand not even comment on,
because anything that I wouldadd would just, you know, sort
of there's nothing I could addthat would enhance what has
(04:30):
already been written.
I'm going to go ahead and jumpto another quote.
This is from page 150.
As an artist, I merely presentand dare not explain.
I have no desire to explain oroffer explanations for what I do
.
Those people who are capable ofseeing will see, and the others
must be content with the trashof our technological society.
(04:51):
As we progress into technology,so will our desire to see
increase.
A demand for an art form whichdeals with vision is in the
making.
As an artist wanting to improvemy lot in life, I must seize
the time and present myself asan artist of vision, skipping
over a little bit and thenjumping to the next page.
(05:13):
Am I just to accept thisevolution or reject it?
If I do reject it.
Am I to continue doing scrapepaintings?
Something in the back of myhead says to use the past 10
years in order to be moresure-footed.
My eye is well-trained now, andalso my hand.
My ability to make decisions isstronger than ever.
Have I been placing too muchemphasis upon the new?
(05:35):
I've always been aware withdiscrete paintings that they
were new in a New York sense ofbeing new.
There is so much doubtassociated with painting.
I am forever questioning myself, doubting my performance.
I make in order to tear down,but the making and tearing down
produces a painting.
I must make a painting, destroya painting, in order to paint a
(05:58):
painting.
One of my biggest takeaways fromreading Witten's words is just
the complete comfort he seemedto have in sitting in the
balance between uncertainty andconviction, because there's a
lot of both in these words.
(06:19):
Revisiting the quote that Ijust shared a moment ago, I am
forever questioning myself,doubting my performance, and
then, two paragraphs later, Imust seize the time and present
myself as an artist of vision.
So there's both in equalmeasures uncertainty and
conviction, and what I loveabout that is it just comes from
(06:41):
a place that starts from aplace, to me, of I don't know
where this will take me, but Ibelieve it will be somewhere
great.
Again, that's just myinterpretation.
I could be wrong, but that'swhat I take from this is, you
know, that idea of I don't knowwhat the fuck I'm doing right
now.
These are again my words, notJack's, but that is a feeling
(07:03):
that I often, frequently, almostdaily, experience, especially
when I'm in the studio andholding on to a belief that,
whatever this, the challenges ofthe day, the things that I
might be working on, whateverthis is right now, a belief that
it's going to become somethinggreat, and so that comfort in
(07:28):
sitting in uncertainty is reallyimportant.
This is from pages 192 and 193,studio Log 1987.
And what's beautiful, some ofthese entries are just one
sentence.
So, 2nd April of 1987, theworst possible scenario is when
your own mind betrays you, fastforwarding to the 12th of
(07:50):
September.
It's extremely complicated andextremely simple at the same
time.
So, again, like I read theseand I think this is somebody
who's so comfortable in sittingin that uncertainty and just
being okay with it's both ofthose things.
It is both extremelycomplicated and extremely simple
(08:10):
at the same time, and that'sokay.
I don't know about you, but Ispend an extraordinarily
unnecessary volume of energytrying to answer unanswerable
questions and feeling a sense ofunease that I don't have the
(08:31):
answer, and, man, that'scrippling.
So what's inspiring aboutreading Witten's words is just
this is somebody who figured outhow to really sit with both of
those opposing ideas, both ofthose feelings at the same time
and not fight either one.
(08:52):
Again, this is just mysubjective response and thoughts
about about these words.
I'm not going to pretend tounderstand.
Um, you know who he was orwhere he's coming from.
This is just conjecture on mypart, but I will say that,
having read this journal, you doget to feel as though you
really do.
You know, know who he was andhow he thought and what he did
(09:15):
with those ideas and emotionsand experiences and how it
translated into his work.
So again, you'll hear me saythis probably five more times
before I'm done here.
But go get this book and readit.
Let's jump back to that quotefrom page 151.
Let's revisit that quote frompage 151.
There's something else I wantto unpack with that.
Am I just to accept thisevolution or reject it?
(09:37):
If I do reject it, am I tocontinue doing scrape paintings?
Something in the back of myhead says, to use the past 10
years in order to be moresure-footed.
So part of my hope with thisepisode and with this book and
the takeaways from it are that,if journaling is not currently a
(09:59):
part of your practice, thatit's something that you strongly
consider starting, because Ithink and I've been journaling
somewhat consistently for Idon't know probably 1520 years
now, off and on, and if you lookback through witness journals
there's, there's some sectionsthat are that are totally
missing, you know.
But I think one of the things inmy own lived experience that I
find to be extremely, not justuseful but necessary, is the
(10:23):
power of acknowledging what isright, like reading these words
this is, this is him.
This is what I'm feeling, thisis what I'm thinking, this is
what I'm experiencing, this ishow I'm processing what's going
on, you know, with the work, andI think that there's just
tremendous power inacknowledging this is what's
going on right now.
(10:43):
And and I'll just be our lastepisode with last episode with
Ty and I was on vulnerability.
I'll attempt to be vulnerablehere and just share, like this
is something I personally reallystruggle with, like I would
consider myself to beemotionally challenged in that I
push against a general sense ofick like ick, like something
(11:06):
icky.
I'm feeling something you know,without taking the time to
really identify and sit with itand identify.
You know what it is.
I mean, it's usually somederivative of a fear-based
emotion.
But until we take that honestappraisal of what's happening
with us, the person making thework and then, by extension, the
(11:28):
work that's being made, there'spower in identifying and
acknowledging here's where I'mat, here's where the work is at,
this is what's actuallyhappening.
Because until we get to thatplace, there's really we're
extremely limited in what we cando.
Going forward, we have toacknowledge where are we
starting from, where is here,and so acknowledging what is
(11:52):
allows us to take that next stepforward with real intention,
having really thought throughwhat that starting point is and
where we might be headed andwhere we might be wanting to go.
Let me read another example ofthat.
This is from page 182.
He writes I am back to zero.
Tonight I cut up a large circlecomposed of a circle grid and
threw it out.
I was completely bored with thepain, taking involvement of
(12:16):
executing all these dots.
I cut it up and threw it out,the only thing I have to salvage
from the past 15 years is thefact of the hard backing, the
bringing of the floor up to thewall.
This is meaningful.
Perhaps I've had more.
I've learned a lot.
I've grown to hate severalthings in the process of
learning.
I'm going to read that again.
I've grown to hate severalthings in the process of
(12:36):
learning.
I want to start 1986 with aclean slate.
Of course, this destroys anychance of getting a gallery.
No one is interested in anartist at the end of a series
and beginning a completelyunknown beginning.
All right.
So how many times have you feltas though you're back to zero?
How many times have you felt asthough you've got to completely
(12:58):
start over, as thougheverything that has come before
this is an absolute waste oftime and energy?
I certainly have recently.
That's a.
That's a reoccurring feeling,for for me and I think, a lot of
other, you know creatives andhumans that I've, that I've
talked to, like this is a commonthing, and you know, what's
really interesting is that andthis is this is something that I
(13:21):
recommend while while readingthis book, if you choose to is
you know you read these entriesand if all you had was the
impression from this book.
You might think that this is anartist who isn't making much of
any work or isn't making workthat could be considered good.
But then you cross-referencethe work that he was making
(13:44):
during this period and you'reabsolutely blown away.
Now I'm speaking as somebodywho absolutely loves Witten's
work and I'm just a massive fan.
So there honestly isn't a lotthat he did that I'm not pretty
enamored by.
But I think it's reallyimportant to realize, in spite
of how he felt during thosetimes, he was still showing up
(14:06):
the next day and making work,some of which proved to be
timeless and extraordinary, youknow.
And so I just think about thepower that comes from writing
that down Again now we'retalking about, you know, our own
lived experience here, thepower of seeing the words.
You know again, I have no ideawhat his experience, you know.
Again, I have no idea what hisexperience, you know, was when
(14:27):
he saw that written out.
But I think it's really, reallyimportant to take the time to
do that Again.
I said I was going to bevulnerable, so I and I do have
stacks and stacks of thesejournals laying all over the
place.
This is from about three yearsago.
I'm just going to read this.
I don't want to, but whatever.
Okay, what is so stressfulabout my internal state that I
(14:50):
require de-stressing?
I am worried about silly things.
I'm worrying about winningsilly games, the online
popularity contest of socialmedia.
It's not so much the popularity, it's the validation it can
offer that my art is legitimate,that I have a shot at making it
as an artist, that I can get myachievement fix here, that I am
(15:13):
valuable.
That's a difficult thing to seewritten down.
Quite sad really, but trueenough to acknowledge.
Okay, that was writing somethings down that were real at
the time and I might cut, Imight edit this out.
I don't know if I'll share thisor not, but okay, I am
(15:34):
personally need to see thingswritten out to even really grasp
what I'm feeling.
You know, I talked a momentbefore about just the sort of
general sort of sense of icklike that, that, that uh general
disease, and when I writethings down, when I sit, when I
I mean I remember I I tend tolike log where I'm at.
(15:55):
So I was at a coffee shopSaturday morning.
Daughter was at at softballpractice waiting for it to get
done.
I remember that.
So I was at a coffee shopSaturday morning, daughter was
at softball practice waiting forit to get done.
I remember that day.
I remember that day because Iwrote this down.
I wouldn't otherwise, but Iremember how I was feeling.
I can probably, if I reallythought about it or tracked it
back, think about what I wasgoing through or what I was
responding to at that time.
But what's so valuable about thepractice of journaling and what
(16:18):
reading Witten's journals havereminded me of and given more
clarity to, is just that once wesee that, once we acknowledge
what's actually there, then wecan actually do something about
it.
And I think you know we talkabout this all the time.
And if there's one thing I'vesaid, probably more than
anything else on this podcast,is just reminding reminding all
of us that it's not just you,it's not just me.
(16:39):
You think you're the only one,you think it's unique to you
that you're frustrated, thatthings aren't working out, that
you feel like you're back tozero.
Read the words of the absolutelegends and be reminded of the
fact that it's not just you,that this is a common part of
the experience.
This is a, a, an ingredient, a,necessary, necessary.
(17:00):
I don't know about that.
It is a common, extremelycommon component of of this
experience.
You know, and I think it's it's.
It's so easy to fall into thetrap of believing that our
heroes, the people that we wouldput on our uh, the, the, the
greats, the people that we lookup to and say, yeah, wow, if
only I could do somethinganything close to what they've
(17:23):
done.
It's so easy to fall in thetrap of thinking that they
didn't have the same strugglesthat we had.
I talked before about.
You know what it would be liketo just read these words and how
easy it would be to concludethat the work that was happening
during that time, you know,might not have been that great.
So the opposite is also true,right.
If we think about theexperience of, you know, walking
(17:46):
through a gallery, through amuseum, you know, paging through
art books and seeing thesetremendous masterpieces, it
would be easy to conclude thatthings were just flowing, that
everything they made that yearwas that good, when, in
actuality, that may have beenthe only thing of dozens of
hundreds that made its way outof the studio that even exists,
(18:10):
you know, today, in the, in thepublic record, right?
So when I read about Witten'sexperiments, when I find these
quote exam, when I read aboutWitten's experiments, when I
find these quote exam.
So again, just that conclusionthat not only has someone else
and a whole collection of otherpeople who have come before and
are doing it now areexperiencing the same or similar
(18:32):
things.
One of the best to ever do itdid so by extension.
It's okay that we are too.
It's not just me, it's not justus.
And another really usefulobservation and, I think,
benefit of journaling and attimes, revisiting some journal
entries.
I did that in preparation forthis episode.
(18:52):
I might share another one orthe first one, depending upon
whether or not I decided toleave that first share in, but
it's.
It's recognizing our ownpatterns, you know, I mean the
number of times that certainideas and themes represent
themselves in this book.
Again, over years, over decades, we get to see and we get to
(19:17):
remember oh, I've been herebefore.
I have.
Wait a minute.
This is pattern recognition,right?
Wait a minute, I've been herebefore.
This looks familiar.
And hold on, what happened.
Oh, it all worked out In someform or fashion.
It all worked out because we'rehere, right, even if it didn't
work out in the traditionalsense or the way that we
(19:38):
might've hoped it to.
We still learned something andhopefully we've taken whatever
we might've learned from thatexperience into what we're
experiencing now.
But I have that all the timewhere I write something down and
it's like, oh yeah, wait aminute, I've, I've, I've seen
this hand right, these wordsthat came out of this head
before, and hold on whathappened.
Oh yeah, I figured it out, ohyeah, it ended up being okay.
(20:02):
So our own pattern recognition,that own, you know, when we
capture these are all littledata points.
These are all little, you know,time capsules, but over time,
as we collect them, as we logthem, they tell a story and
armed with that information,we're much more equipped to move
forward.
All right, let me read somemore quotes here.
(20:25):
Jack's words are undoubtedlymore interesting than mine.
He writes this is from page115,.
The paintings are beginning toclarify themselves.
It is something about systems.
The last painting, taf 2,taught me a lesson.
One step of the system dealswith my applying thick Aquatec
white with a stiff bristle brush.
There we go.
(20:45):
It is too haphazard, too muchcalligraphy, a carryover from my
earlier paintings.
I want something more definiteas content, something more
thematic or recognizable.
I'm experimenting on TAF 3 withstring and pieces of rag torn
from one of Andrew's old shirts.
My reasoning is that I cancontrol the amount of thickness
and shape.
Therefore I should be able toadd or subtract by using
(21:07):
different weights of materials.
I think it's important that Ilist the individual steps of my
system.
I'm not going to read all ofthem, but there's I don't know
probably 15 different steps.
So he outlines his process forthis particular piece.
So I wanted to share thatbecause and I just I put the
biggest smile on my face when Istarted to see and this, this
reoccurs throughout, throughouthis journal entries in the book
(21:29):
but just listing out thedifferent steps, the what, but
also the why, the here's whatyou know I'm doing to achieve
certain effects, to try and getto where I'm trying to go, but
then also the why behind it.
So let me read from page 120.
My show opens on the 4th ofApril.
I have five paintings.
I'm only pleased with three ofthose five and I need at least
(21:51):
six.
My thinking moves so fast thatI can only produce two paintings
that are absolutely about thesame problems.
When one problem is solved andI see it before on the canvas, I
become bored.
I cannot produce six paintingsof the same idea.
I am not cookie cutter.
My thinking is not stationary,but moves along at a very rapid
rate.
Therefore, each painting is arepresentation of a particular
(22:13):
idea.
The plastic concept unifies thecomplete works, but the content
of each painting could changedrastically at will.
In other words, I canassimilate any idea into my
(22:33):
system, which is actually thematter or raw material.
This matter can be used in anumber of different ways.
Matter is what unifies thewhole.
All plastic elements areconceived through matter.
For me, I want this rawmaterial to be my playpen, a
means of doing anything I wishto exercise every fantasy, myth,
every feeling of the absurdwithin my grasp.
(22:56):
So what I love about that andthese are on subsequent pages
from the same entry.
So it's the what, but it's alsothe why.
Here's what I'm doing andhere's why I'm doing it.
Here's what I'm hoping to,here's what he's hoping to
achieve, you know, with thatparticular technique.
So, naming the system as oftoday and, as I read from one of
those previous entries,understanding it just needs to
(23:18):
be true.
For today, this just needs tobe.
This was just a system forright now, understanding that we
may very well throw today'ssystem out the window tomorrow,
but we've got something thatworks, that is functional for
right now.
We understand what we're doingand we have an idea, at least
for the moment, of why we'redoing it.
It's incredibly powerful.
I want to share another exampleof both the what and the why.
(23:40):
This is from pages 86 and 87.
I must achieve a matte surface.
The rib paintings areimpossible to see with a gloss
surface.
Tomorrow I will experiment withusing gesso as a final pour,
(24:12):
which should give me a mattesurface.
Skipping ahead surface, a spacethat exists solely through
surface.
No attempt at overlappingplacement or perspective.
The space comes out of thesurface and then he gets more
into the, what I'll skip for now.
Jumping ahead, I take my cuefrom nature.
Even with color I take my cuefrom nature, presenting an
(24:33):
all-over tonal range withoccasional patches of hue.
I want to put the fear of God inthese paintings.
I want to put the fear of Godin these paintings.
I want to evoke a spiritual,magical, cosmic existence with a
material connection,emotionally charged.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know whatI can add to that other than
just like that just blows meaway.
(24:53):
And every time I read it andI've read it and reread it a
number of times, it's just likeit's inspiring no-transcript and
I think that again, just tobeat this idea to death.
But there's so much intention inthese words, there's so much
(25:19):
thought, and I mean you thinkabout how much time, over 50
plus years, was spent thinkingabout the process, how much time
he spent in the studio.
He spent in the studio and atany given checkpoint along the
way.
And you look at Witten's work,which evolved and changed, I
(25:40):
mean tremendously, over time.
He was always iterating, alwaysthinking about how to
communicate what he wanted tocommunicate, and I think that
this is a big reason why orreason, I guess, how he was able
to do that right Is reallythinking about here's what I'm
doing and here's why I'm doingit in whatever sequence, and in
having that informationavailable, because he logged it
the ability to make intentionaladjustments along the way.
(26:01):
So really, you know what Wittenteaches us through these words
is just how to think about ourwork, how to understand what
we've done so far, to the extentthat it can be understood, and,
even more importantly, how tothink about where to take things
next.
I'm going to read another quotefrom page 54.
From the top.
(26:23):
It's like a book club.
I really hope that one personat some point is like actually
that'd be super neat, okay, andwe read on from page 54.
Second, I've had the feelinglately to do something new, ie
another way of handling paint.
To my knowledge, no one hasarrived at an image by using a
flooring chisel to chip awaypaint, but no one had used a
(26:46):
carpenter's saw either, or ashoeshine brush or an afro comb
or a plumber's plunger.
Maybe I've been doing somethingnew all along without knowing
it.
I love that.
I love that for a lot ofreasons, but I just I think
that's so beautiful and youthink about like, so this is
where the writing takes the sortof intuitive in the moment, you
(27:07):
know thing that I'm, that I'mtrying, I'm just going to go
ahead and guess that all thedifferent materials that he just
or tools he just listed offwere not things that were on his
list of tools for that day.
Right, I could be wrong, butI'm just going to go ahead and
guess that you know the way thatthat he chose to use those
tools in that moment were, youknow, intuitive.
And oh hey, there's a shoeshinebrush.
(27:27):
Let me grab that real quick,and again, I'm just speculating.
I don't know for sure, but Iwould be shocked if everything
they needed in the studio wasplanned in advance, right?
So my point is that incapturing these things and
writing them down, he was ableto take those intuitive you know
, in the moment, you know spurof the moment ideas and oh,
(27:48):
let's just try this and see whathappens Turn those intuitive
experiments into systems, intothings that could be recreated,
replicated and refined over time.
This might be an all-timerecord of quotes shared in an
episode, page 95.
The paintings have changed.
It's impossible for me tocontrol them.
(28:09):
Sometimes I wonder who or whatis doing the controlling.
I have three paintings of onething and four paintings of
something else and one ofsomething else.
I must learn to accept changeas being inherent with my type
of structure.
It is not a cookie cutterconcept.
One must allow for change,however rapid, as long as it is
within the original boundaries.
(28:31):
Skip in a paragraph.
Whatever it is that I'm workingwith, I have merely scratched
the surface.
If that it is something soelusive, so infinite in its
ability to change, to avoidbeing structured or placed in
category.
Sometimes it is thick,sometimes thin, always existing
within obvious extremes,sometimes thin, always existing
(28:52):
within obvious extremes,sometimes transcending all
extremes and sometimes existingin the extreme middle of
opposite obvious extremes.
I guess it truly is the extrememiddle.
I'm going to reread the partthat I have double underlined
and highlighted.
I must learn to accept changeas being inherent with my type
of structure.
(29:13):
A lot of what sticks out to methroughout this book and
throughout his different entriesare things that he is saying to
himself, and I think that it'ssomething that I definitely
recognize in my own journals andI think other people.
Like you know, we acknowledgewhat is and then we sort of like
tell ourselves I don't knowwhat could be.
(29:34):
We, you know, hopefully get toa point where we can find some
hope in where things are at andwhere things could be and where
things could go, and coachourselves up a little bit.
You know, one of the things Ihad written down from this was
just, there are a lot ofbenefits of intentional self
(29:56):
delusion.
Again, this is my own takeawayfrom this.
This is nothing that hereferences specifically, but I
think, you know, let at bestneutral that's kind of the
starting point, right, and giventhat our internal state is
integral in our ability to dothe work that we are meant to do
(30:21):
, then the practice of decidingwhat is so, at least for today,
and then doing something with itis really important.
You know the, the, the?
I had a good friend of mine froma long time ago who always said
he was so good at just coachinghimself up and just like being
his own biggest cheerleader.
(30:41):
You know, and, and I said once.
I said, man, you're so good atjust pumping yourself up, and he
said, listen, if you're notgoing to be your own biggest
cheerleader, then who is Cause?
I'm with me all the time.
I was like, wow, that isextremely true and extremely
powerful.
Right?
If we're not going to be ourown biggest cheerleader, if
we're not going to, in this case, decide what's true for now,
(31:05):
write it down, declare it forourselves, then no one else is
going to do it for us.
Here's another example of that,from page 127, from the bottom
the common man must bleed inorder to experience change.
I choose art.
I am not the common man.
I have sympathy for him, but Iam not willing to abandon my art
for his cause.
The greatest success for me asan artist is my recognition by
(31:29):
the common man.
I don't expect this, neithernow or in the future.
So I must accept my isolationin society, but in accepting, I
promise to live in a matterworthy of my value.
My plan is to continue my workand enjoy myself as much as
possible within my means.
To me as I read that, that ishim telling himself what's true
(31:52):
for that day.
But when it's all said and done, the only thing that really
matters is what's next?
And what am I about, like, whatam I trying to do here?
And so again, what I love, whatI'm obsessed I mean like really
obsessed, not sock obsessedwith this book and with Witten's
words are just his ability tocontinuously acknowledge what is
(32:16):
, no matter how confused orfrustrated he might have been in
that moment, but then also getto the place of here's the what,
but also here's the why.
Here's what I'm about, here'sthe truth as I see it in this
moment, and from that placeboldly moving forward into
whatever's next.
That's powerful, I mean, that'sinspiring, all right.
(32:41):
So I said before I was going toshare a couple of different
journal entries and I was tryingto find something that I was
okay with sharing, but I thinkit's useful to now that we've
spent some time with the wordsand thoughts of a genius just to
give some examples of adefinite not genius and I'm
referring to myself.
(33:01):
So this is just something thatI wrote, this I don't know about
a year or so ago, and I foundthis in one of my journals and I
think it sort of brings thispoint home.
But I wrote this can still befun, this can still stir my soul
.
Just because there's lots to do, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy
the process, and this is inpreparation for a previous show.
(33:23):
Everything will be exactly whatit's supposed to be.
As I sit here and look at thesepieces the work that is
complete and the work that stillneeds work.
It is special.
It is saying exactly what Iwant it to say.
Everything is coming togetherexactly the way it's supposed to
.
Everything has led me here.
Every single thing has set meup and prepared me for this.
(33:45):
I am more equipped than everbefore to make my best work.
So far, all right.
So I had to speculate on whatJack may or may not have been
thinking or feeling when I readhis words.
The reason I wanted to share myown is because I don't have to
guess.
I can tell you exactly what Iwas feeling at that time,
because it was just a year ago,it was before a show, and I
think I'm going to tie a coupleof things together here,
(34:05):
hopefully.
I was completely stressed.
I didn't believe any of thosethings that I just read until I
wrote all the shit that I wasfeeling this is all garbage,
this isn't going to work out,it's not going to be done in
time, no one's going to show up,no one's going to like it.
I mean, that's the noise thatwas going on in my head.
(34:26):
I wrote that stuff down, Iacknowledged what was already
there and then got to a pointwhere I was able to arrive at a
version of what I hoped to bethe truth, and I spent time with
that.
And there's other things Iwrite down that you know.
I write things.
You know I think if they wereshared would sound gross,
egotistic, self-inflated,braggadocious, like I mean.
(34:48):
I write those things downbecause I need to see them, I
need to again be my own bestcheerleader and I think that's
super valuable.
I don't know exactly what Jackwas thinking when he wrote these
words, but certainly some ofthese big, bold statements that
he made.
I don't know if he shared themwith anybody at the time think
(35:11):
they were probably published orshared with a broad audience,
because he didn't have a broadaudience at that time but he
wrote those things down, hebelieved that they were true and
he kept that vision close.
So, in closing here, what is thepoint of journaling?
My goal here today was to dotwo things.
One was to get you to buy thisand read this book.
So hopefully at least some ofyou will go out and do that,
because if you love it half asmuch as I do, you'll still love
(35:34):
it a whole bunch.
You might also find yourselfobsessed with this book.
My second goal with today'spodcast was to just kind of
reiterate the value ofjournaling for all of us, and
what it does is we learn aboutour practice, we learn about our
process, we learn about whatwe're trying to say and we
(35:55):
learned about about ourselves.
I mean, I can only speak formyself, but like I learned about
myself when I see thingswritten down, it came from my,
from my head, my heart, throughmy hand on the paper.
I see it.
I'm like, oh, that's what'sreally going on and that's
powerful, that's extremelypowerful, and I think what I
just closed on too, or what Ijust mentioned, and just to the
(36:15):
value and the importance ofidentifying what the vision is
and holding that vision close,when we're able to get clear
about our vision, about whatwe're trying to accomplish, to
protect it, to keep it in theforefront of our thinking.
And I think that does a coupleof things.
I think, proactively, it helpsus to see the forest for the
(36:36):
trees, to keep the big picturein mind, to be able to have some
perspective around what'shappening in the moment, which
may or may not I mean most casesfor me probably isn't going
perfectly.
So it proactively gets us in astate where we're thinking about
things from a properperspective and I think,
(36:56):
reactively, it can also act as atreatment for those low moments
to be able to revisit thethings that we wrote down, that
we believe to be true aboutourselves, about our work, about
what we're trying to accomplish.
And it doesn't provide immunityto the negative thoughts
creeping into the things thatwe're trying to accomplish.
And it doesn't provide immunityto the negative thoughts
creeping into the things thatwe're all going to experience as
human beings that prevent usfrom, you know, being in that
(37:19):
perfect state or being in a goodstate, you know, to be able to
do what we've been put here todo, but it does provide some
defense, you know, against that,and so I'm going to close with
that.
I think again get this book,read it, buy it.
We're going to do a bunch morepods on this.
Ty and I are, and I think thisis going to be our last.
Yeah, this is, I don't need tothink, I try not to.
(37:41):
As a matter of fact, this isdefinitely going to be our last
podcast of 2024.
So, on behalf of Ty and myself,the holidays, happy new year.
We cannot wait.
We've got a bunch of excitingthings in store for 2025.
So, with that being said, wewill talk to you next year.
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