David Lynch on Ideas, Meditation and Artistic Freedom.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
ideas are the number one best thing going.
And ideas come to us.
We don't really create an idea,we just catch them like fish.
No chef ever takes credit formaking the fish, it's just

(00:28):
preparing the fish.
So you get an idea and it islike a seed and in your mind the
idea is seen and felt and itexplodes, like it's got
electricity and light connectedto it and it has all the images
and the feeling and it's like inan instant.

(00:48):
You know the idea in an instant.
Then the thing is translatingthat to some medium.
It could be a film idea or apainting idea or a furniture
idea, it doesn't matter, itwants to be something.
It's a seed for something.
So the whole thing istranslating that idea to a
medium and in the case of filmit takes a long time and you

(01:13):
always need to go back and staytrue to that idea, keep checking
that idea is.
The idea is more than yourealize and if you're true to it
, when the work is finished andsome years go by, you can even
get more out of it if you'vebeen true to the idea in the

(01:35):
first place.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that was the majestic, wonderful, beautiful
legend, david Lynch, that youjust heard there in the
beginning, and many of you knowthat voice very well.
Many of you are just findingout about that voice.
We unfortunately lost DavidLynch a few days ago.
I know something that hitNathan and I both like a ton of
bricks, kind of like what?

(01:58):
Wow Gosh, what a massive loss.
And it made me reflect on somany Lynchian memories from my
life and somebody who's beenkind of just a steady influence
and inspiration through hisfilms and his art making as well
.
Many of you don't know that hewas also an incredible painter
and artist as well, outside ofmaking films.

(02:20):
And my very first memory ofDavid Lynch would have been at
my grandparents' house in SantaBarbara and I didn't even know
who he was, but I remembereverybody watching the Elephant
man on HBO.
When it hit HBO it was probably1982-ish.
I'm trying to find those bitsand pieces of memories as I'm
thinking through this and Iremember coming in the room and
they're watching this movie andJohn Hurt playing Elephant man

(02:44):
and just I think they said, okay, you need to leave.
It was one of those things as akid like it's the adult time to
watch something.
You guys stay in the back andthen, as time went on, I
remember watching Dune, probably1986, 88.
I know he hated the film but Iknow I loved it as a kid.
I thought it was absolutelyincredible.
I still do, in all of itscheese and gloriness today.

(03:04):
I watched it before the newDune films came out again and I
still love it because of thosememories as a kid.
And of course we all know TwinPeaks.
Many of you have watched itmaybe since COVID it kind of
resurfaced when he brought thenew series back out and the old
series resurfaced.
So that was high school.
I remember watching that inhigh school and I really didn't

(03:27):
know Lynch or Lynchian thingsuntil probably art school when
Eraserhead and all those filmskind of became part of our
conversations in art school andI watched Eraserhead this
morning before we jumped on andmy buddy Mike and I were big
David Lynch fans in uh incollege and so we saw wild at
heart in the theater.

(03:47):
Lost highway, uh, mole hole anddrive Like.
Some of those films are suchinspirations for me as an artist
and I think the lost highwaysoundtrack is still one of my
favorite soundtracks evercreated.
I remember watching the film.
There's just those momentswhere Marilyn Manson or smashing
pumpkins uh, you know, come onin those scenes and you're just
like transported into it.
Total difference fromEraserhead, which is basically

(04:10):
all audible sound, very, verylittle music in Eraserhead.
But then you go to Lost Highway, where music plays an
incredible part of some of thosescenes and I mean he's just God
.
He blows me away in everythingthat he does.
And then his wisdom, whichwe're going to jump into big
today.
Just so many phenomenal things.
And I mean Chris Isaac's WickedGame video.

(04:32):
That's an music video.
That's an iconic music videothat he did.
And definitely encourageeverybody to watch David Lynch
the Art is Life documentary aswell.
That's a fabulous documentaryof him and his little studio
just talking about making.
And we're going to talk a lottoday about being true to your
vision and really sticking to it.
And so many things, nathan, I'mso excited to jump into this

(04:56):
today.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Now you got me on the soundtrack.
You got Lou Reed, nine InchNails, lesnar, pumpkins, bowie,
I'm definitely listening to thatlater today it's an incredible
soundtrack.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yep, it's one of those that we had on all the
time in art school.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Uh, back in the day well, ty, I'm gonna say, the
future is so bright I have towear shades.
I've been sitting here like anasshole wearing sunglasses for
the first few minutes oh yeah,you're about to get a text.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Take them off.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Off we go.
All right, they just happen tobe sitting here.
So, of the many you knowincredible clips, many of which
we're going to share today, thatwas one of my favorites is him,
you know, and just in his like,sweet, pure, joy-filled voice.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
I'm wearing dark glasses today because I'm seeing
the future and it's lookingvery bright.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, saying that and like a genuine authentic saying
something, super cheesy yeahbut so authentic 100%.
Yeah, it was great, it'sinteresting.
So I came to.
I was, of course, aware ofLynch.
I was, of course, aware ofLynch as a filmmaker before this
, but what really, I think, drewme into his world was when I

(06:11):
heard about his book, whichwe'll talk about a lot today,
catching the Big Fish.
And I learned about it fromBrian Koppelman, who's a
tremendous screenwriter,showrunner, filmmaker as well,
who has a podcast called theMoment that I absolutely love,
and I heard about it maybe Idon't know, six, seven years ago

(06:32):
.
The book, I think, came out inlike 2007.
But that's really whatintroduced me to him as a, you
know, philosopher.
And you know, kind of like wetalk about Rick Rubin like the,
the, the uncle that we all wishwe had.
You know what I mean, and sothat was super, super cool.
I think what's what's differentthan you know the, the creative

(06:54):
act by Rubin, is that you knowthere's something special about
ideas like this that are sharedfrom the perspective of a maker.
Of course, ruben is involved inhundreds of incredible projects,
but as far as somebody who'sdoing and making the work,
similar impact to me as NickCave, where, respect the work,

(07:17):
but then reading the book andhearing him talk about it.
Or I've talked about this booka lot on the podcast too, but
Stephen King's book on writingtremendous, but again, I haven't
read any of his other books intheir entirety, but but just
that.
So anyway, the perspective thatcomes from somebody who is, you
know, actively and prodigiously, you know making a ton of

(07:38):
tremendous work that is uniqueto their own voice, is, I think,
you know, really really specialto their own voice, is, I think
, really really special and soreally excited to talk about
kind of his ideas and just sharea bunch of quotes and kind of
break them down.
So I'll stop babbling.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Let's dive in.
Yeah, it's going to be great.
And I think just a great quoteto kind of start with is from
page 159 in the book, and thebook is titled Catching the Big
Fish.
We'll definitely have it in ourshow notes.
So it's something that, asNathan said, titled Catching the
Big Fish.
We'll definitely have it in ourshow notes.
So it's something that, asNathan said, you know, he
introduced.
He didn't introduce it to me,but he forced me to read it.
So my buddy, zane Walliman, whoI've spent a lot of time with
in Kenya and here in the U?

(08:13):
S for years, was telling me Ty,you got to read this book, you
got to read this book, you gotto read this book and, as a
friend, you say forced like I.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
I hogtied you, you did.
I held your eyelids open.
Clockwork orange style Openedit up.
You're going to read this,right?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
And then, you said I think it was a short book.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
I didn't have to rank you for too long.
No not at all.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
And I think initially I thought the book was only
about meditation, right.
I'm like, okay, I've readenough meditation books,
whatever.
I didn't realize that it wasreally artist maker, the
importance of meditation, right.
So that's kind of why it waslower on my radar than other
books.
And so when you said no, no, no, ty, you need to read it now,

(08:53):
bought it, read it, read it afew times and use it in my
program as well with otherartists, because it's just
fabulous.
But let's start out with a quotefrom page 159.
And it's a piece of a largerquote that we're going to use a
couple other pieces from today.
And he says stay true toyourself, let your voice ring
out and don't let anybody fiddlewith it.

(09:13):
And that kind of goes hand inhand with part of the Patti
Smith quote from the lastpodcast where William Burroughs
told her to create a strong nameright, and don't do anything
that take takes anything awayfrom that name Right.
And that's something that Lynchhad a lot of pride in.

(09:34):
And he learned a very valuablelesson as well with Dune, which
he would say is his biggestmistake, you know, because he
kind of left that independentfilm world and went to a big
studio, and then he realizedthat once you do that, your name
is now gone.
Yeah, they now kind of own yourname and they own these ideas
and they own these things, andthat's really where this comes

(09:56):
from, right?
Is he learned?
I have to stay true to myself.
To make my art, the only way tolet my voice ring out is not to
let anyone else fiddle with it,and that's a constant theme I
think that we have talked aboutthrough all of our episodes is
don't let anyone make you dosomething you don't want to do

(10:16):
with your work.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, and that's, I think, what you know.
One of the things that you comeacross him saying more than
once is never give up final cut,and he shares his experience in
making Dune as exhibit A andthe only example of him having
ever done that.
Because of how it went, thisquote, I think, rings especially
true.
And again, this is wherereading the words and absorbing

(10:40):
the wisdom of somebody whosework is so this quote just rings
true.
Because he had such a uniqueartistic vision and you watch a
Lynch film and you know that'swhat it is.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Because it could only be.
Yep, it could only be.
That's a great point.
That's such a valuable point,nathan.
When you look at it, it can'tbe anything else.
Isn't that the goal for us asartists?
When somebody sees our work, itcan't be anybody else's.
That is Nathan Turborg's work,that is Ty Nathan Clark's work,

(11:16):
and you have no doubt?
Yep, you just yeah, that's whatwe're working towards.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, yep, all right, let's move on to our next quote
, cause we got a whole pile ofgoodies to get into here.
Let's actually share this quotewith uh, uh, patti Smith
sitting with with Lynch.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
We all have this channeling, this shamanistic
ability.
Some make more use of it thanothers.
Do you have that experience?
I get ideas in fragments.
I always say it's as if in theother room there's a puzzle.
All the pieces are together,but in my room they just flip

(11:59):
one piece at a time into me anda first piece I get is just a
fragment of the whole puzzle.
But I fall in love with thisfragment and I love this
fragment and it holds a promisefor more and I keep it.
I write it down and then I saythat having the fragment is more

(12:22):
bait on the hook and it pullsin more and the more that come
in, the more faster the restcome in.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
This is great.
I want a copy of what you justsaid.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
I love if you're watching the video version of
this.
I just love Patty's face.
You know what I mean.
She's just totally nerd.
You can see the respect and theadmiration that she has for
every word that's coming out ofhis mouth.
That's what a magical momentbetween two people who are so
groundbreakingly important overmultiple genres of art.

(12:58):
Multiple.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
And then watching her , you just touched on it.
But there's that moment whereyou let, she makes an audible
like, like it's literally whathe's saying, capturing her heart
so much that it just takes,takes her breath away.
It's, it's absolutely beautiful, I mean, and can't you just
picture this just so perfectly,like just wanting to be, you

(13:20):
know, in the room?
I mean, thankfully we get to,we get to watch the video and
listen to the audio.
But there's something about theway he says things so simply
and elegantly, you know, and andthe way that he puts things
into words that immediatelyresonates and makes sense, Like
obviously you know Patti Smithhad never heard that before, or

(13:44):
she's a phenomenal actor and wasbehaving as though she had, but
I'm pretty sure that was herfirst time hearing him say that
and you can just tell the waythat it connects.
And you know, we both had thatexperience so many times I'm
sure our listeners have as wellof just like that's it, yep,
that's it.
And to me, like that's why it'sso damn important, and I would

(14:06):
say necessary, as artists, forus to continue to seek out these
words of wisdom, these nuggets,these little gems, that when we
can hold on to them.
It's like it's so valuablebecause we get to carry that
with us into our own practiceand apply these ideas, and
there's something just somagical about when someone else

(14:28):
can put things into words thatwe just kind of had like a
general sense of maybe before,which is, of course, why it
makes so much sense when we hearit.
It's just a beautiful thing.
Something we've all felt andsomething we're all chasing is
just that whole idea.
I wanted to kind of piggyback onthat and read more on the whole
big fish idea, which is wherethe title of the book, of course

(14:48):
, comes from.
This is page one.
It's funny.
I got to share this.
I had somebody message I thinkit was our Instagram on the Just
Make Art page, but they saidsomething to the effect of I
love this podcast, but you'remaking me spend way more money
on books than I normally do.
Yes, win.
And my reply was you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, win, big win, I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Tell me how you could better spend $17 and I'll buy
you, your next book.
So this is page one.
Ideas are like fish If you wantto catch little fish, you can
stay in the shallow water, butif you want to catch the big

(15:30):
fish, you've got to go deeper.
Down.
Deep the fish are more powerfuland more pure.
They're huge and abstract andthey're very beautiful.
I look for a certain kind offish that's important to me, one
that can translate to cinema.
But there are all kinds of fishswimming down there.
There are fish for business,for sports, there are fish for
everything, her fish forbusiness, for sports.
They're our fish for everything.
I just I mean that whole idea ofwhere we're spending our time
where and how we are putting ourantenna up for ideas.

(15:53):
It really matters, it reallydoes matter.
And you know he talks about.
He uses a number of differentmetaphors.
He talked about seeds in one ofthe previous ideas.
But however we think about it,I think that I can't really
think of a better sort ofcalling or a better pursuit for
us than to really think aboutand consider how can I get

(16:21):
bigger ideas?
How can I get bigger ideas?
How can I get more of them?
Like, what's the and we'll getinto this a little bit but
what's the sort of tacticalapproach to actually having
access to an entire ocean ofthese big, beautiful, powerful,
pure fish that he talks about.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (16:39):
about that.
Well, you know, what's funny isprepping for this podcast and
rereading through, catching theBig Fish and watching a bunch of
Lynch clips on YouTube, and nowmy YouTube algorithm is all
David Lynch right, because I'vebeen going through everything
which is awesome for me, I'mlike I've never seen this one
and finally, you're pushing outall those cat videos that you

(16:59):
tend to watch.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, gosh, bye.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, sorry, allison, I'm getting rid of all the cat
videos.
Gosh bye.
Yeah, sorry, allison, I'mgetting rid of all the cat
videos.
But anyways, I was reading JackWhitten yesterday in the

(17:22):
morning and what is one of thethings that Jack Whitten often
ends one of his studio journalpages with Do you remember I
will, when you tell me Goingfishing?
Oh yeah, hold on.
He's never literally said.
I'm going out to catch fish inthe river or the ocean.
But he keeps ending all thesebig studio sessions that he's
writing all these notes andliterally it's right, it's just
stream of ideas.
And then he says, go andfishing.
So I can't help but say thathe's got that same mindset of

(17:46):
David Lynch.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I think he actually did fish.
I think he actually did,because that often would precede
his trip.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, don't ruin it for me.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
You're right, you're right, my bad.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
But anyway, but.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
I mean honestly what you thought.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
But it is.
It's the metaphor yes, Right,he's got.
He's got all these ideas, yeah,and now he's going to go fish.
I can't help but think thateven if he was physically
fishing right in Brooklyn,wherever he is off the pier and
looking at this huge ocean andthinking about all the ideas
he's reeling in constantly inthe studio and that's what David

(18:18):
Lynch is saying, right, likeyou've got to constantly be
casting.
And what is fishing?
It's meditative as well.
It's supposed to be calm, theplace where you're kind of out
with your soul.
You're outdoors, in nature.
You're spending an enormousamount of time thinking, it's
usually silent, and you'recasting into this huge body of

(18:39):
water and trying to reel in asmuch as you can.
Because what does it do?
The more you reel in, the moreit feeds you.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well, it's funny, I don't know.
Have you done much fishing inyour life?
Yeah, I'm not a big fisherman.
I have.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
I hate it.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Actually I enjoy it.
I've not done a lot of it, buta couple of times I've got
friends that are really into itand some family, so occasionally
.
Well, some of my best memoriesare with my, my grandpa and my
great uncle um, fishing for, uh,for, for, for pike and sunnies,
with cane poles.
Where there was no reel, youjust, you just lifted it up and,
um, it's beautiful.
But that, that metaphor, I meanit.
It tracks in a number ofdifferent ways because when

(19:19):
you're fishing, the more hooksyou have in the water, the
higher.
It's basic math, right.
The more hooks you have in thewater, the better your chances
of catching fish.
If I'm in the boat by myself,with one hook in the water, the
boat will likely catch fewerfish than if we've got six
people who are, all you know,trolling for.
And so, to carry that throughto our practice, just thinking

(19:42):
about, you know, how can we, howcan we have more hooks in the
water?
In other words, how can we giveourselves more opportunities to
catch fish?
You know, I mean it's it's,it's basic, uh, it's basic math.
You know, the the more, themore hooks we have in the water
and the more we, the more timewe spend fishing, the bigger

(20:04):
fish we're going to catch andthe bigger those ideas are going
to be.
And and this is where themeditation piece, I think,
really comes in is and one thinghe talks about a ton and hits
from a number of differentangles and a number of different
ways, some of which we're aboutto get into here.
But it's how can we be fishingall the time?
You know, I mean, we've talked,we've talked about this many
times on the pod before, butit's not something where you

(20:27):
know we're only okay, I'm, I'min the studio and I'm in front
of the work, and here we go andand go, let me receive no, no,
no, I mean we're, we're always.
You know, the the antenna isalways up, the hooks always need
to be in the water.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, and how do we, how do we become more aware of
those ideas?
Like you know, the antennaalways being up and always being
pulled, how do we get to thatpoint where we can be more aware
of things, because there'sobviously lots of distractions
outside that studio door thatcan do everything possible to
kind of shut that down Right?
How do we do that?

Speaker 3 (21:07):
You set up the next quote.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, let's hear what Lynch says.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
You're up.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
If you have a golf ball size consciousness when you
read a book, you'll have a golfball size understanding.
When you look out, a golf ballsize awareness and when you wake
up in the morning, a golfball-sized awareness and when
you wake up in the morning, agolf ball-sized wakefulness.
But if you could expand thatconsciousness, then you read the

(21:32):
book more understanding, youlook out, more awareness and
when you wake up, morewakefulness.
It's consciousness and there'san ocean of pure, pure, vibrant
consciousness inside each one ofus and it's right at the source

(21:52):
and base of mind, right at thesource of thought, and it's also
at the source of all matter II've got a lot of thoughts on
that, but I first want to saythat if you're not watching the
YouTube version to see the videoof him speaking, that's fine.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Just go and find these videos.
There's something I love abouthis mannerisms where he does
this thing with his hands, wherehe just you can see it's the
kind of thing that an artistdoes right, like if you just do
what we do when we're trying to,it's just it's.
I love it, I love his, I lovehis nonverbal communication when
he's when he's speaking.
So you asked how, and Lynchwould tell us this is, this is

(22:34):
exactly how that meditation isfor for him, uh, the the way to
collect more of these ideas, toreally to develop more awareness
and wakefulness in everythingthat you do, which speaks
directly to what we just talkedabout in terms of having more
hooks in the water and havingthose having those hooks in the

(22:56):
water, you know, all the time,not just some of the time.
I wanted to share a quote fromthe book that pairs really well
with something that I've got,you know, highlighted and
underlined a couple of times inthe book on page one, sorry,
just 57.
And this is a very digestiblebook, you know there's, there's

(23:17):
the sections are very short andto the point, this section is
exactly one line.
I guess technically, just onesentence is exactly one line, I
guess technically just onesentence.
And it reads like this thething about meditation is, you
become more and more you Okay,and I want to share.

(23:37):
So let me kind of back up alittle bit, I think, and I just
want to share, like I have beenreally curious and fascinated by
meditation for probably I don'tknow 14, 15 years, maybe longer
than that, and have not been aconsistent, you know, daily I've
had streaks of it.
You know where I've been dailyfor you know four or six months
and then fallen off.
Very rarely have I gone, youknow more than a couple of days

(24:01):
without realizing, hey, it'stime to sit down and get still
and meditate.
I use an app for a long timecalled Headspace, which is like
a guided meditation, you knowapp and that was, that was kind
of my introduction to it interms of doing it over, you know
, longer periods of time andstaying consistent with it.
But I wanted to kind of read Idon't know if I'll read all of
this, but that struck meyesterday in a really deep way

(24:25):
and I journaled about it alittle bit.
But what I wrote yesterday isbetter than what I'll be able to
come up with today to reallyexplain how that struck me and,
I think, how that reallyimpacted me.
So I wrote the quote down.
I love this quote.
I think I understand it at itsessence.
Maybe I think I understand itat its essence.
Maybe it strikes me like thisyou are the purest you at birth.

(24:47):
By pure we mean free ofprogramming.
You haven't yet acquired theweight of expectations, worries,
fears, all the external inputs.
Then, as you grow up and adoptcertain ways of being the pure,
you gets crowded out like weedsin a garden.
Precious nutrients are siphonedaway from where they belong to
feed that which doesn't.

(25:08):
So meditation helps weed thegarden, removing the junk that
has crept in and taken root overtime.
It gets us back closer to theyou.
You were born to be childlikeand free as artists.
It helps us identify andeliminate, or at least reduce,
the voices in the room thatdon't belong.

(25:30):
So that's what meditation, Ithink, does for me, specifically
from a creative standpoint.
I mean, these are the types ofthings that apply to every part
of your life when we become, uh,less fear-based, less anxious.
We become less reactive.
We become better to deal with.
There's a story that he shareswhere, when he first started

(25:52):
meditating, his first wife cameto him after two weeks and said
what's up, what's going on?
Because he described himself asbeing very angry before you
know, before he startedmeditating, and so the change
was noticeable almostimmediately to the person that
was in his life.
So these things, these thingsapply broadly to us as human

(26:16):
beings, which, of course, thentranslates into the work as well
.
But I think that you know, themore junk, the more weeds that
we can remove from the gardenthat are taking away those vital
nutrients, the energy thatshould be put into our highest
calling, the better off we'regoing to be as people and
certainly the more productiveand creative we're going to be

(26:40):
as artists.
Yeah, but that got me thinkingabout something that you've
talked about before too, ty,which is the series that you did
on.
Are we born fragmented andbecome whole?
You say it.
I'm going to butcher it if Itry.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, it was a series I did.
I think it was 2016, maybe or2015.
I can't remember CalledFragments and the whole idea was
just the philosophicaltheological thought of whole
idea was just the kind of thephilosophical theological
thought of are we born whole andbecome fragmented over life as
we're broken down with traumaand things and experience?
Or are we born fragmented andover our life we become more

(27:15):
whole?
and really it was just meexploring that idea and those
thoughts through my work,through painting, through my
trauma, through the things thatI've experienced in life, and
trying not really to come to ananswer but just kind of working
those thoughts out but alsothinking of, you know, the whole
concept of true self, falseself, right, and something you
kind of mentioned too, likefeeling more true, right, donald

(27:40):
Winnicott, that created thatwhole idea and dichotomy of the
false self and the true self andreally talking about true self
being based on an authenticexperience of feeling alive,
having a real self, with nocontradiction it's you, this is
who I am and who I'm supposed tobe, and I feel it and I know it
.
Then the false self, as acontrast, is this self-created

(28:02):
as a facade.
It's like a defense that canlead to feeling just dead inside
and empty and not yourself,right, it's a fake appearance of
being real.
So narcissism would be thatside right Of the false self.
And I think what you're kind oftalking about, what Lynch talks
about as well, is that.

(28:22):
Let me read a quote on page 159that kind of really goes into it
deeper with meditation, right,as he says it's important to
experience that self right,because when you're meditating,
you are you, you're just withyou, there's nothing else there.
And he says that pureconsciousness, when everything
else is pushed away, everythingelse is pushed aside, and it's

(28:43):
just purely you and your thought.
And he says it's really helpedme.
He's not saying you must dothis, he's like, guys, this
helped me and I think it helpedany filmmaker and I think he
would say, any artist.
And so he says start divingwithin and enlivening that bliss
consciousness, Finding thattrue self, that center of you,

(29:06):
and then really going there andemptying out of everything else
and really being you.
And I think with that seriesthat's kind of what I was doing
in a way.
And you know, making art insolitude can be meditative.
I don't, that's not what we'rereally talking about here, but
it can be meditative andthinking through those thoughts
and emptying out and unpackingstory, unpacking life, and

(29:30):
really trying to focus in onwhat I'm trying to say and where
I'm going.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
It can be meditative and it can also not be
meditative.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Absolutely Yep A hundred percent.
That's what's so interestingabout this too is like you think
about.
So we're talking aboutAbsolutely, absolutely, yep,
100% pursuing a holisticexistence where we are, you know
, fully integrated and who wewere meant to be, right.

(30:08):
I'm going to drop another quotein here from Abraham Lincoln
that I think about a lot, and hesaid give me six hours to chop
down a tree and I will spend thefirst four sharpening the ax,
and to me, that perfectlydescribes what meditation is

(30:28):
capable of and what it does forme creatively, in terms of that
being a, a proactive act before,before, creating right.
It's a, it's a pre-choppingactivity that always pays for
itself 10, x or more.
In other words, the sharper theX, the more efficient each of

(30:52):
those chops is going to be.
It also works, I think,reactively, and I and I think
about that.
So when I'm, when I'm on thebeam and when I'm consistent,
I'm doing it proactively,sometime in the morning, the
first hour of my day, when I'mnot consistent, it tends to be
more of a reactive thing where Ijust acknowledge, like I'm not

(31:12):
in the state that I want to bein, I'm not in a good place, and
so, even if it's just, lynchwas a very committed, uh,
practitioner of transcendentalmeditation, which is 20 minutes
twice a day.
But even if it's five minutes,even if it's 10, I mean like it,
it.
It's amazing to me how well itworks and how often I'm just

(31:34):
like, oh, I don't have time forthat, right, because I just want
to keep swinging that fuckingdull axe, because it feels like,
it feels like action, it feelslike activity, right, I'm very
action and results, you know,oriented by nature, so it feels
like I know, I just got to keep,I just got to keep swinging,
and meanwhile meditation is justsitting right there with the uh

(31:55):
, what?
The whetstone, and they're like, hey, just give me 10 minutes,
give me 10 minutes with that ax,and you will be every chop will
be that much more effective.
So I think that meditation, itreally it's a reset.
It makes challenges andfrustrations return to their

(32:16):
right size.
We want, I think, as humanbeings, to be able to deal with
life on life's terms and respondaccordingly.
This is I can't remember whereI heard this, but it's.
You know, if somebody says thatTy is reacting to the
medication, that's not good.
If you're getting treated forsomething, ty's reacting to the

(32:38):
medication, that's not good.
We don't want reaction.
Oh, ty is responding to themedication, that's fantastic.
Then it's doing what it'ssupposed to do.
We want to respond, we don'twant to react, and so meditation
gives us, I think, the abilityto really process and deal with
frustrations that, in theabsence of a practice like this,

(32:59):
it can be meditation, it can beother things everyone's got,
you know, different things thatmay work for them but something
that gives us the ability totake a breath, take a step back
and realize, oh, this is, it'sgoing to be okay, this isn't
that that big of a deal, youknow.
And I think that when I do itreactively in the studio, you

(33:21):
know, as I was preparing forthis last show, you know, um
early evening, you know, four orfive, six o'clock, a time of
day when I'd normally bewrapping up and getting ready to
call it a day, but I neededanother whatever three, four or
five hours or more sitting downmeditating it just hits that
reset.
It's like a hard reset where,when I'm done, it's like, okay,

(33:46):
the things that I was ballooningand mushrooming in my head to
be these massive challenges,most of which were completely
just self-invented or created,just the monkey mind just
chattering away, they take ontheir right size and they then
allow us to get back after thattree with a properly sharpened

(34:07):
ax.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, and distraction , it comes in so many levels for
us as artists, right.
Stress, negativity, frustration, confusion is a big one for us.
What do I do now?
How do I get to the next level?
How do I do these things?
And then that builds and buildsand builds into anxiety and

(34:29):
questioning and doubting andthen sometimes can creep in and
cause artists to leave thevision that they have that's
clear and try and look forsomebody else's vision Right,
because it's just so hard bymyself, somebody else's vision
right, Because it's just so hardby myself.
And I think you know he does agreat job in the book of really
talking about what meditationdoes for the self in those

(34:50):
moments to really be able tofight and overcome that
negativity.
And we've got a great video ofhim kind of talking about that a
little bit too.
You teed that up perfectly.
You're a professional of himkind of talking about that a
little bit too.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
You teed that up perfectly.
You're a professional.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
They say negativity is just like darkness and you
say what is darkness?
And you look at it and it'snothing.
It's just the absence ofsomething.
You can't go down to the storeand buy a dark bulb, turn it on
and the room gets dark.
Darkness is the absence oflight.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
You ramp up this all positive and automatically
negativity will go, just likedarkness goes in sunlight or
with an, it's the absence oflight, all these things coming
into you that are hiding youfrom where you're really trying
to go and what you're trying todo.
And avoiding those things andovercoming it.
It's just as simple as justletting that little bit of light
in.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
I should say too.
I want to comment on that, butI should say that this is you
can tell by the way that thatclip is lit.
That's from his masterclass,which is, I noticed, available
on YouTube for free.
So if you don't want to buy thebook but you want to get more
Lynch in your life, highlyrecommend spending.
I think it's like just underthree hours, but it's beautiful.
I mean, it's really fantastic.

(36:18):
On that quote, if darkness isthe absence of light, we have to
find ways, whatever they mightbe, to find sources of light
that automatically eliminate thedarkness.
And I think, as I wasreflecting on that, darkness is
inevitable in the absence oflight.

(36:39):
Inevitable in the absence oflight.
It doesn't mean anything otherthan there's no light.
And I think it's easy to toassign meaning to things that
aren't real, or to assigninappropriate meaning, I should
say, to things that aren'tactually worth our, our energy.
Again, just these ideas, the,the not not good ideas, but but

(37:03):
bad ideation.
You know the types of thingsthat that just can, can really
just flood in.
You know when there's, whenthere's not light and when we
have the ability to access thatlight and and turn on the.
Turn on the light bulb, not thedark bulb.
I love how he puts that.
Darkness has no quarter.
There's no place for it toexist because the light is there

(37:26):
.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love what he says on page93 and 95 here, kind of
discussing those in morepractical terms for things that
can come in and really hamperyour ability to gather those
ideas right and cast those linesto catch the ideas and the fish
, as he says.
And he says kind of paraphrasea little bit here and he says

(37:49):
it's good for the artist tounderstand conflict and stress.
Those things can give you ideasbut I guarantee you if you have
enough stress you won't be ableto create and if you have
enough conflict it will just getin the way of your creativity.
You can understand conflict butyou don't have to live in it.
It's common sense.
The more the artist issuffering, the less creative he

(38:11):
is going to be, it's less likelythat she is going to enjoy her
work and less likely that theartist will be able to do really
good work.
And if you're an artist you'vegot to know about anger without
being restricted by it.
In order to create you have tohave energy and you've got to
have clarity.
You have to be able to catchthe ideas.
You've got to be strong enoughto fight unbelievable pressure

(38:35):
and stress in this world.
So it just makes sense, tonurture the place where that
strength and clarity and energycome from, to dive in and
enliven it.
It's a strange thing but it'strue.
In my experience, bliss is likea flak jacket.
It's a protecting thing.
If you have enough bliss, it'sinvincibility and when those
negative things start lifting,you can catch more ideas and see

(38:59):
them with greater understanding.
You can get fired up moreeasily.
You've got more ideas and seethem with greater understanding.
You can get fired up moreeasily.
You've got more energy and moreclarity.
Then you can really go to workand translate those ideas into
one medium or another.
That's beautiful.
I love how he says how blissand calm can act as a shield,

(39:20):
kind of right.
Like once you're able torecognize, push away, center
yourself, you start to enliventhose things and bliss is like a
flat jacket, it's like a shield, it's protecting and I love he
says then you can get fired up.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
And in the absence of that shield, the absence of
that flak jacket, you're goingto be catching those bullets of
negativity.
It's inevitable.
You just are, you are.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, he says that you have to be strong enough to
fight the unbelievable pressureand stress in this world.
He's talking about the creativeworld, the art world, and he
uses the word unbelievablepressure, unbelievable stress,
and it helps us to focus the artworld and he uses the word
unbelievable pressure,unbelievable stress, and it
helps us to focus on the rightthings.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Light can be channeled, can be directed.
I turn on the lights.
It illuminates the entire room,but there's also a spotlight,
and that, I think, is somethingthat flows in the undercurrent
of a lot of the things that heshares, meaning that we can
illuminate where we want ourfocus to be.
Think of it like a tightrope.
If we're walking the tightrope,we are focused on where that

(40:30):
next step is supposed to go, notthe void below.
Yeah Right, where we want to be, not where we would be if it
didn't go the right way.
So, in channeling our focus, itjust frees us up to really do
our best work.
And just, you know we talkabout this a lot, but just

(40:54):
creating the right conditionsfor art to happen and for life
to happen, for that matter, Imean again, all of these things
are universally transferable toall of our waking hours.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I think you led into our next video quote
really well when you starttalking about that freedom.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Let's hear what David Lynch has to say about that.
There's a thing called freedomand it's very, very important
Free to think anything and doanything.
To think anything and doanything.

(41:36):
Every human being has a linethey won't cross, but it's a
different and it can killcreativity.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Wow, any restrictions can be a sadness that can kill
creativity, and I want to.
I want to go ahead and justread the quote from page 12,
cause it feeds right into thisone.
And he says so the art life?
Okay, he's talking about ourlife as artists, in the studio.
So the art life means a freedomto have time for the good
things to happen.

(42:07):
There's not always a lot oftime for other things.
That is a very simple and verydeep and profound quote freedom
to have time for the good thingsto happen.
Well, we can't have freedom ifwe're completely restricted and
trying to follow a certain setof rules or things we think we

(42:32):
can or can't do, but a freedomfrom restrictions to do our work
.
Negativity, stress, conflict,anxiety, all these things right,
become restrictions for usdoing our work.
And so then he says the artlife means a freedom to have
time for the good things tohappen.
If we don't have that freedomfrom restrictions, all those

(42:53):
good ideas, all those many ideasthat we're casting and casting
and pulling in and pulling in,we don't have time for those
things to happen because, as hewould say, your consciousness,
your mind, is so filled withother things that it's not open
to the rest and he says there'snot a lot of time for other
things.
Right?
You don't have time for allthat other shit to be bouncing

(43:15):
around and distracting you fromyour work.
You don't have time.
We say this all the time.
This is a long road.
You don't have time.
We say this all the time.
This is a long road.
This takes us time, and how sadthat we just lost David Lynch.
And then you read this quotethere's not a lot of time for
other things.
We don't know how much time wehave left in this world, and the

(43:37):
art life is long.
If we are able to operate infreedom in our studios, we're
able to pull in all those thingsat a faster rate in something
that is very slow, and it'sgoing to take us a while to
create our best work sandsthrough the hourglass of time.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I mean it's we've got a finite amount of time to to
make our best work and for it todevelop.
Like you said.
I think about how this is.
I know a conversation that youhave with a lot of your mentees
as well.
But what do you want from thisart life and what are you
willing to trade for it?
I think that when I want, Iwon't speak for everyone, I'll

(44:22):
just speak for myself here.
But when you want something sobadly, when it's when it's baked
into your DNA, when it's inyour blood, you kind of, I mean
for me.
I'm just not really thatinterested in a lot of other
things and I am perpetuallycurious.
Like I mean, put me in front ofa hobby or put me, I'll do it,

(44:43):
I'll have a great time.
But things like, uh, what's agood example?
Well, fishing, I mean we'retalking about that earlier.
Like I've got a lot of friendsthat like put a lot of time in,
sure, yeah, cause they lovedoing it, it's great.
Like awesometh birthday event,top golf not actually golfing,
you know what I mean, but still,it's like a thing I was talking

(45:05):
to I forget, I think it wasMicah but like, oh, how often do
you golf?
I'm like I used to golf a lot,you know, before I was making
art, and now it's all I want todo.
I mean, if you said, hey, youcan have, you can take, and it's
a, that's a commitment to you.
You want to take six, sevenhours, you know, round trip to
go play a beautiful course withgood friends, you know, on a

(45:26):
Saturday, or do you want thattime in the studio?
I'm taking the studio everytime and, hey, let's catch up
with the friends you know, for acup of coffee or a phone call
while I'm cleaning the studio.
It's just like, how bad do youwant it and what are you willing
to trade for it?
I think is a really justimportant question to ask
ourselves.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah, and there definitely are a lot of things
that you have to trade andsacrifice for it.
And I will also say you stillneed time for soul care, right,
and that's not what Nathan'ssaying by not doing things that
you may enjoy.
Because you look at David Lynch, he was a filmmaker first, that
was his thing.
David Lynch, he was a filmmakerfirst, that was his thing.
Making films, writing scripts,directing, you know all of that.

(46:05):
But then what did he do in hisother time?
His soul care time was painting.
He painted and he identified asa painter as well.
Yes, he did In an interview,like when people are you a
painter Are?

Speaker 3 (46:15):
you a filmmaker?
I'm both.
I'm both.
I'm a painter and a filmmaker?

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, and I'm both.
I'm a painter and a filmmaker,yeah, and so you have these
things, though that there'sstill like I write, right, I
would identify as a artist and awriter.
Yep, as an artist and a poet,whatever you would say.
But I spend an enormous amountof time painting and making art
than I do writing, you know.
But I still write regularly.
It's just not at the free focusdriven, sacrifice moments of

(46:43):
being in the studio and makingart.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, thank you for clarifying that.
I certainly didn't meaneliminate your hobbies, abandon
your loved ones.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Screw my family, screw everything else I like to
do.
I'm just in the studio, yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Fall asleep with a paintbrush in your hand and wake
up and get back to work.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Well, and that's what he would.
David Lynch would say to himthat would be a suffering artist
and that is what that wouldsuffocate the amount of
creativity and enjoyment thatyou have in making good work.
Living that way, yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
And he talks a lot about, about awareness.
That's what, fundamentally,what, what all of this is about.
So, just being aware and justasking those questions of like,
all right, does this serve thegreater goal?
You know, if the greater goalis to make our, our best work
possible and make our greatestcontribution in that way, does
this serve the greater goal?
And what are the things forself-care, soul care, that that

(47:39):
lead to that, that contribute tothat right, as opposed to
pulling away from that?
I'm a crappy golfer, so I'mleaving the course more
frustrated than when I got there.
You know what I mean, so that'snot filling my cup.
There's a quote from a book, ty,that I am a big fan of, that I
read a long time ago.
It's called Essentialism.
The name of the author is GregMcCown and the subtitle is the

(48:01):
Disciplined Pursuit of Less, andI wanted to read a quote from
that that applies to what we'retalking about here.
He writes Essentialism is notabout how to get more things
done, it's about how to get theright things done.
It doesn't mean just doing lessfor the sake of less, either
for the sake of less either.

(48:21):
It's about making the wisestpossible investment of your time
and energy in order to operateat our highest point of
contribution by doing only whatis essential.
So the part of that that I wantto unpack a little bit is
making the wisest possibleinvestment of your time and
energy in order to operate atyour highest point of
contribution.
In order to operate at yourhighest point of contribution.

(48:45):
So really looking at like what,what matters?
The things we say no to are justas important, sometimes way
more important, than the thingswe say yes to.
When we say yes to something,we're saying no to everything
else.
If I commit an hour of my timeor a week of my, whatever it is,
that is that you're, you'reliterally crossing every other
possibility.
You know, with that time, withthat energy, with that focus,

(49:08):
you know across the list.
I'll share one more quote herebefore we move on.
But um, this is also from thatsame book.
You cannot overestimate theunimportance of practically
everything, and when I startedapplying this idea to things, I
started crossing things off thelist.
I was legitimately amazed athow many things I thought were

(49:28):
critically important that I juststopped doing or crossed off
the list, that I didn't miss,that nobody missed that just
weren't really that important,and so just having that sort of
essentialist mindset, I think,just ties into what he's talking
about.
As far as just you have to,that's, that's freedom.
The art life is freedom, butyou have to have time for the

(49:50):
good things to happen.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, and when we talk about time right and that
operating in that freedom, Ilove what David Lynch says on
page 12.
And I know this is a quote thatprobably is possibly both of
our favorite maybe in this book.
No, that's right.
You know, and he says this it'salways a process of building and
then destroying, and then, outof this destruction, discovering

(50:14):
a thing and building on it.
Nature plays a huge part in itPutting difficult materials
together, like baking somethingin sunlight, or using one
material that fights anothermaterial and causes its own
organic reaction.
Then it's a matter of sittingback and studying it and
studying it and studying it, andsuddenly you find you're

(50:36):
leaping out of your chair andgoing in and doing the next
thing.
I understand this absolutewholeheartedly.
When I read the book, I waslike Patti Smith, sitting next
to David Lynch and going yes,that's it, that's what I'm doing
, that's exactly what I'm doing.

(50:57):
And he reinforced in me you'redoing it the right way and
that's what I think sometimes isso important.
In reading that book or studyingthat artist from art history or
whatever is you go yes, I am onthe right track, I am doing the
right thing.
Thank you, david, for tellingme I'm doing the right thing,
because this is all I do, right?
I sit there and I build, and Ibuild and I build and I'm

(51:19):
gathering ideas and gatheringideas, and then I'm going with
the new ideas and it'scompletely destroying everything
I just built and then out ofthat destruction, I discover
something new, and then I buildon that and I go on that, and
then I stop and I study it, Isit back and I look and I look

(51:40):
and I spend time and I justwatch and I talk to myself and
looking at everything, and thenall of a sudden yeah, I've done
it multiple times I jump up outof my chair or I run around the
studio or I hop on a skateboardin my studio and I, you know,
and I'm just going yes, allright, next thing, let's go.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Yeah, no, it's beautiful, I actually it does
tie in really well with what wewere just talking about, because
it does require a certain typeof freedom and willingness to
destroy, to let go of the goodin pursuit of the great.
That's something that I reallystruggled with, I think, early

(52:18):
on artistically was oh I gotthis cool little moment over
here, I don't want to lose that.
Or on its own it's a, it's aneat little part, or it's
something that is interesting,or something that I want to
retain.
But, um, well, bring thingsfull circle to the that.
Uh, one of my favorite StephenKing quotes from that book that
I mentioned earlier is kill yourdarlings.

(52:39):
You know, you have to.
You may like it on its own, butif it doesn't serve the whole,
it has to go.
And he talked a lot about aninterview that I was listening
to.
I'm going to paraphrase this,but he talked about that idea.
This, this quote kind of morein depth in terms of how one
idea would, would lead to thenext and, before you know it,
the, the, the seed is completelygone, it's completely destroyed

(53:02):
.
But it took that to get to thisright.
It was that sort of progressionand of course, this correlates
directly to what I do in thestudio and what I do with my
work in terms of building thingsup, and building up layers,
layers, layers, and thenbreaking them down.
I actually shared this exactquote on a reel on a, on a reel

(53:22):
that I posted yesterday of me ofme doing exactly that.
But that's how I think about itis yeah, this, this, this move
might not work.
This might act.
This quote unquote ruin, youknow, whatever that, that part,
but you have to have the freedomto risk it and and and see, and
see what might be, and I thinkthat's a freedom that is

(53:45):
developed over time to havefaith in the process, that what
is revealed, or what the seedleads to, the thing after the
thing, after the next thing,might actually be the thing, as
opposed to just falling in lovewith the initial idea and
feeling like you got to justexecute on just that first part.

(54:07):
Right, it's action.
And reaction.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
And all of that is operating in the mystery,
because you don't know, we can'tknow, we don't know.
And if we're trying to know andtrying to constantly grasp it
and totally understand it,you're really putting yourself
in a disservice of operating inthat freedom, and so we have to
allow the mystery to exist.

(54:32):
That's part of the freedom isliving in that mystery.
And he says on page 79, I lovegoing into another world and I
love mysteries.
If you've watched a David Lynchfilm, there are multiple worlds
that exist in every film.
It's not just one straightstoryline through.
So I don't really like to knowvery much ahead of time.
I love that I don't like to knowvery much ahead of time.

(54:55):
I like the feeling of discovery.
I think that's one of the greatthings about a continuing story
which I would also translate asa developing work that you can
go in and go deeper and deeperand deeper.
You begin to feel the mysteryand things start coming.
Wow, you begin to feel themystery and things start coming.

(55:22):
I want to just piggyback thatwith one of our favorite Nick
Cave quotes that we've sharedbefore, I think quite a few
podcasts ago, and he says youhave to operate at least some of
the time in a world of mystery.
Beneath that great andterrifying cloud of artistic
unknowing, the creative impulseto me is a form of bafflement

(55:42):
and often feels dissonant andunsettling.
Yes, it absolutely does.
It chips away at your owncherished truths about things,
pushes against your own sense ofwhat is acceptable.
It's the guiding force thatleads you to where it wants to
go.
It's not the other way around.
You're not leading it.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Well, and that's the chef preparing the fish.
Yep, yep, we're preparing thefish.
We're not taking credit formaking the fish.
Yeah, yeah, we're going whereit wants to go, we're prepared
in a way that serves the overallflavor of the dish and that's,
I mean, you know, I think a lot,especially that that first
quote about mystery.

(56:23):
You know, I just love I think weall do we just love being
surprised.
I mean those moments where wehave that Patti Smith from the
from the first quote, sort ofgasp of like oh, wow, that, that
moment of discovery, it's soperfect, it's so beautiful, it's

(56:46):
so fulfilling because we don'tknow if we were just, you know,
making a, a paint by number.
Just think about a puzzle, myhe, his puzzle, from his puzzle
metaphor, my um, on my wife'sside of the family, the in-laws,
uh, for christmas time, theylove getting a big puzzle and
everyone kind of like chips inand and I'm like guys, we know

(57:09):
what it's going to look like atthe end it's right on the damn
box, like what's like?
What are we doing right now?
I proudly was the only person,uh, at christmas, who, christmas
, who didn't put a single piecein that puzzle, just because
it's like why?

Speaker 2 (57:24):
do I want to.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
That's essentialism in practice.
Why?
Do I want to spend mental andemotional energy, even at
Christmas, staring at something,just trying to put something
together, just so we can get toan end that we already know how
it's going to go.
Already know how it's going togo.
Yeah, anything about like films, tv, whatever, like you know,
when you can predict the ending.
It's kind of like okay, yeah,let me guess.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Yeah, you're not predicting a Lynch ending.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Right Ever, and that's what's great about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
That's what's beautiful about it.
And that's, I think, what we'retrying to do with, with our, our
art as well, when he Well, andhe operated that same way,
because there's a great story inthe book about running into
Laura Dern, right, who was hisneighbor, who's been in a number
of his films, yeah, and then hehad this idea because he had
this little dream aboutsomething.
And then he runs into her andhe's like, oh, hey, got this

(58:13):
idea.
And then they go to do a littleshort, and then he sees
something and all of a suddenthese other ideas come and he
starts writing them down andkind of running with them and
then it turns into a featurefilm, right.
So after they were filming,yeah, and doing the short, and
then all of a sudden thingsstart to happen in this.
And then you know those moments, like the story of placing the

(58:36):
lighting tech in a room Ibelieve this was during Twin
Peaks Just in a room, and thenthis was during Twin Peaks just
in a room, and then didn't evenknow why he had the person in
the room, but it was an idea andhe went with it.
So he's just doing the nextthing, but then after the cut,
somebody said oh wait, we haveto stop.
So-and-so is sitting on the bed, reflected in the mirror, and

(58:56):
he goes.
That's why I went with thatidea, because that shot ended up
being perfect and he would havebeen a big missing link if that
had not been reflected in the.
So we don't know where thoseideas take us, but we have to be
free enough to go deeper anddeeper, and deeper and then feel
the mystery.
And then they start coming.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
You know it's funny.
You mentioned that I didn'tthink of this until just now.
But like he uses the wordabstract and abstraction so many
times, and you know you thinkabout, you know for having the
freedom that he had creativelyto just drop those little things
in there, knowing full wellthat people were going to read
into it and have any number ofconclusions about what that

(59:39):
represented or what thatsymbolized, when in actuality,
in many cases, it was just Ithought it was interesting.
It's almost alwaysdisappointing when music artists
, musicians, explain theirlyrics, right, Because we've
assigned meaning to certainthings that we're sure connects
to this thing over here, becausethat's what it means to us.
Yeah, and they're like no, itwas just, it had the right

(01:00:01):
number of syllables and weneeded to finish, so you're like
yeah, but anyway we have talkedabout that, yeah, but it's just
that.
It's just that freedom to belike I'm going to leave that in
there, you know, and pulling thethread and just being confident
and free enough to follow whereit leads.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Yep, and then I.
We've got a great video wherehe talks about that taking those
ideas and then figuring out howto run with them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
And so you just stay alert.
Do your work.
Don't worry about the worldgoing by.
It doesn't mean that you cansit around and not do anything.
You've got to get your butt ingear and do it, and don't take

(01:00:46):
no for an answer.
Translate those ideas to cinemaor to a painting or to whatever
, and figure out a way to get itdone.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
This is something that I'm constantly trying I
think with quite a bit ofsuccess, but at times it doesn't
always come through to reallyenforce into any of the artists
that go through my program thatI work with, and it's figuring
out those ways to stay alert,right, to be open in that

(01:01:19):
freedom and the mystery allthese things that we've already
talked about in the episode sothat you can gather, so that
you're shutting off the worldoutside your studio and you're
just able to be your true selfand gather, gather, gather,
gather, gather.
Now have our button gear.
You have to be driven, like wetalked about.
There's things you're going tohave to sacrifice.
That's button gear.

(01:01:39):
You've got to be working anddoing things.
I can't tell you how many timesI hear from artists in my
program.
I got a message from somebody,from this guy, totally
mansplaining to me, about how Ishouldn't use this on this
material or that on thatmaterial.

(01:02:00):
You're doing it the wrong way.
I just had this conversationwith one of my current artists
and she had some guy onInstagram mansplaining to her
materials and things and I waslike no, no, you do what you
want to do.
You do what you want to do.
You make what you want to makeright.
You have to be able to shut allthat shit out so that you can

(01:02:22):
translate those ideas, like hesaid, because interference
distracts us from those ideas.
And now we start to gather whatother people's ideas are for
where we want to go and we startbringing the world in and then
it just interferes witheverything.
And I think that's really partof that big focus for him on

(01:02:45):
meditation.
That's what helps him stayDavid Lynch, To stay focused on
his ideas and not have anyconformity to others who are
trying to control Cause Iguarantee there were people even
at 74, 75 years old trying tokind of point David in
directions.
I can guarantee he was gettingstudio calls and emails and

(01:03:07):
people like, hey, you should trythis, do this, here's my, this,
this.
And he's shutting that offthrough his practice of
meditation to be able to befocused and translate all those
ideas that he has constantlycoming in.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
The part of that that really strikes me is the the
don't worry about the worldgoing by.
Yeah, circling back to thatidea of essentialism and just
being intentional about where weput our energy.
I would never presume to tellsomebody what they should or
should not be thinking about orputting energy into, but I would

(01:03:43):
absolutely say that having aseries of conversations with
ourselves around is this worthyof my energy, understanding that
me focusing on this thing,whatever it is, is it means that
I'm not focusing on the bigthing or the big things that

(01:04:06):
really matter that I canactually influence in a positive
way, matter that I can actuallyinfluence in a positive way.
I was thinking a lot about theDavid Foster Wallace piece.
This is water.
We've talked about this and thewhole.
I mean what strikes me the mostabout that and what I love so
much about it?
It was written as a, as acommencement speech.

(01:04:26):
Um, you know, giving advice to,obviously, graduating.
You know university studentsand the whole idea of you know
it's not what, it's not how tothink.
It's teaching you what to thinkabout and talking about the
idea that we have a choice aboutwhat we spend time on.

(01:04:48):
What we spend time thinkingabout.
We know how to think, but it'sit's being intentional about
what we think about and theenergy that we put into.
That is incredibly important,yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
And you know he says on page 159, this is a great
little trailer for that momentExperience the joy of doing and
you'll glow in this peaceful way, like do we spend time trying
to experience the joy in whatwe're doing?
I try to push this really hardonto artists that go through my

(01:05:25):
program.
It's like freedom in the studiois having joy messing up.
It's having joy makingsomething good and making
something weak.
It's joy and having to try newthings that don't work at all.
Because you have the ability todo it and you're trying and you
do.
You glow in a completelydifferent way.
When you can experience thatfreedom, you really do.

(01:05:47):
And this quote is so true to me.
Your friends will be very, veryhappy with you.
Everyone will want to sit nextto you, like that's so great.
Because when I was workingfull-time and painting on
weekends and nights and when Icould, I was not very fun to be
around at home.
Mandy, my wife would tell meall the time like we got to
figure out a way for you topaint full-time, we got to speed

(01:06:10):
this up somehow, because youare not fun to be around at
times when you're not painting.
You're not fun, right Causethat's that's my true self.
Yeah, my true self is when I'memptied of the world and I'm
completely free in the studioand I'm making, and when I'm in
that mode I'm experiencing thejoy of doing and I do.
I glow in a totally differentand peaceful way.
When I'm not making and I'maway from it and I'm not really

(01:06:32):
in that mode, I'm not thefunnest person to be around.
It's like there's that thatfalse self starts to kind of
reek through and I start to dothings that aren't truly me, or
I don't act the way I am, and Ijust love that.
He says it's just a funny DavidLynch thing and everyone will
want to sit next to you and giveyou money.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
And give you money, right, yeah, yeah, the other
part of that, two tiesexperiencing the joy of doing
and remembering that this can befun.
Yeah, no, yeah, I, I, I laughedat my I was, I journaled.
I caught myself writing this inmy journal um a weeks ago and I

(01:07:11):
just laughed out loud when Isaw it on paper because I was
like this can still be fun.
Is it hard?
Is it work?
Of course, to me, and how thisrelates to Lynch's worldview, is

(01:07:43):
that when I'm in my false self,I believe the lie that I only
have value because of what Iachieve and what I produce.
When I'm in my true self, I canbe present, I can be in the
moment, I can experience the joyof just the process.
And oh, by the way, wouldn'tyou know it, the work that
results from those times isalways better.
It just is.
And so, yeah, just that idea ofjust experiencing the joy of

(01:08:05):
doing, glowing in this peacefulway.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Sign me up.
Yeah, and that's one of thenotes I had for myself at the
beginning of this year, becauselast year was rough, you know
you and I've talked about thisat length just me being
vulnerable with you, like it wasjust a rough year for me on a
lot of different levels that Ifelt like really affected my
work.
I know it did, and so one ofthe things that I wrote in my
journal this year was just havemore fun, you know, find the

(01:08:31):
ways to have more fun.
And it's not like I don't enjoymy time in the studio.
It's not like I don't enjoy,but it's like there's a
difference and just realizingyou enjoy something and then
having fun and freedom and doingit.
There's two different things inthat, because one is in the
moment and one is an overall,just kind of looking, looking
over and observing.
Oh yeah, I know I enjoyeverything I do.

(01:08:52):
That's different than in themoment, in the studio,
continually to come in with thiscomplete, uh, just a joy and
love and passion for what I'mdoing on a daily basis.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
And I I think what I hear you saying is is, I think
what he was describing in termsof just freedom, you know,
Absolutely.
And it's funny there's a part ofthat quote.
I had a note and I didn't bringit up when we were there.
But I want to ask you now.
In that freedom quote he sayseveryone has this line they
won't cross.
Yeah, I can think of at leastthree different ways to
interpret that.
But how do you, how do you, howdo you receive or how do you

(01:09:27):
interpret that specific line inthe context of him talking about
freedom?

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
I look at more this way.
There's a line you won't cross.
As far as I'm going to workwith a big studio on my next
film, I'm going to continue towork independently so I can have
full control of myself.
Now there are plenty ofincredible filmmakers.
I was thinking about this thismorning when I was driving.
Sofia Coppola is one of myfavorite filmmakers.
Obviously, she was born intothe industry.
She grew up watching FrancisFord Coppola and her first film,

(01:09:56):
virgin Suicides, one of myfavorite films ever made Indie
film but connected to a studio.
Right, but she controlled it.
It had her feel in it.
Depressing but beautiful film.
One of my favorite soundtracksIncredible.
The acting is phenomenal.
The story's heartbreakinglybeautiful.
So she was still able to haveher vision and be her in the

(01:10:17):
filmmaking.
But you got to make the decisionat some point.
What are you going to do andcan you operate in freedom?
In that and I think for him itwas I will not go as far anymore
as doing it with anybody else.
It's mine, I will do it my way.
I won't have anybody else withthe input of telling me how to
do it.
That's kind of how I look at it, but also you could say well,

(01:10:38):
you know what?
I'm an artist.
There are a lot of things thatupset me with the world, but I
do not want to be a politicalartist.
Outside of my art making.
I will get involved inpolitical things and make my
statements, you know.
Show up, do whatever I need todo to get my voice forward write
letters to my congressman or mysenators, whatever, and push my
, the things I believe in,forward, but I'm not going to do

(01:11:00):
that with my artwork.
Then there are.
So I'm going to be completelypolitical with my artwork.
Completely.
That's what I'm doing.
I'm pissed, I'm angry.
I'm going to let everybody knowhow I feel and I'm going to put
it out there.
So plenty of ways.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
Well, and that's the whole point, right Is like it's
our line yes, that I mean.
That that's freedom is gettingto decide, like where, where
that line is and and what typesof rules that we want to set for
ourselves.
I think a little bit differentspin on that, I take it a little
bit differently.
The line, just because it'swithin the context of him
talking about creative freedom,is the line of oh, I do this and

(01:11:37):
I don't do that.
You get the feel, and it'spretty obvious in watching his
films that there wasn't any ideathat was off the table None
Zero.
That there wasn't any idea thatwas off the table None zero,
right, like it was all.
Like okay, well, maybe right,trusting himself, trusting his

(01:11:58):
intuition, which he talked abouta ton.
But I think that the freedomcomes from moving the line,
having fun and saying like, oh,I thought the line was here.
As far as this is what I do andhow I do things.
But what if I moved a littlebit?
What if the line was?
Maybe you were here?
What if the line was?

(01:12:18):
What if there was no line overhere and I just kept going until
I just ran out of real estateor fell off the edge of the who
knows.
That to me, is fun.
That's just what got methinking about that.
When you're talking abouthaving fun in the studio, being
free, um is deciding like maybeit's time to move the line a
little bit, maybe it's time tojust try something.
I know you got a new toy thatyou're excited to use, and I

(01:12:39):
don't want to blow the surprisefor people.
But but yeah, that's, that's itRight.
It's like, oh, I was doing this, but now in this too, and boy,
maybe I'll even blend themtogether.
And then what?

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Well, and that's taking, and that's part of that
freedom of taking all thoseideas, and we're going to jump
into this now in our nextsegment capturing them so that
we don't forget them right,small ideas to big ideas, lots
of ideas to a few ideas,capturing them, gathering them
somewhere and then revisitingthem over time and watching them

(01:13:14):
grow into actuality, from kindof ideation to actually doing it
.
And for me, where I'm going withmy work I won't really talk
about it because I'm still inthat nurturing, gardening phase
of getting those seeds wateredand trying to work on it was
things in my work that continuedto happen that were very
important to me, but wanting totake them to a much larger, much

(01:13:37):
more physical feel than smallerand minute and trying to figure
out the ways I could do that.
How can I take these ideas?
Because something was tellingme you got to go here, you got
to go here, you got to go here.
So then, moving forward on thatand David has a great, great
quote to kind of intro us,jumping into that, let's play it
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
We don't know what to do without an idea.
I love the idea of catchingideas.
And they're out there, millionsand millions of ideas, and we

(01:14:25):
don't know them until they enterthe conscious mind.
And then we know them and we wesee them and hear them and feel
them, we know the mood of them,even if it's just a small
fragment of what could be awhole film or a painting or

(01:14:49):
whatever.
We fall in love with it forsome reason, something inside of
us says this is a great ideafor me.
And then you write that ideadown on a piece of paper in such
a way that when you read whatyou wrote, the idea comes back
in full.
Super important to write downyour ideas so you don't forget

(01:15:12):
them.
I think I've forgotten threeincredible ideas in my life.
So write down your ideas andsave them, because it's very
important.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
I think I've forgotten a lot of ideas in my
life.
Him only forgetting three ismagnificent.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Yeah, that's your baton Pert.
Near a thousand at that pointyeah seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
This is something that you and I, obviously, we
have harped on this constantlyin different episodes, and this
is something that you and I I wehave harped on this constantly
in different episodes, and thisis something that you and I I
think we're professionals inthat aspect of.
We write things down constantlyin journal and I think, for me,
I do it because there was aperiod of time where I wasn't
doing it, and then I would wakeup one morning and go, oh, I

(01:16:12):
know, yesterday I had this grandidea of something and it's gone
, yeah, never to be recoveredagain.
Could that have been the nextgreat painting?
Could that have been the nextscreenplay or the next novel,
you know, whatever that lookslike for any of us.
The next great idea for dancechoreography?
First, like, if you're an artistin any genre of the arts right,

(01:16:35):
we're not just talking aboutpainters or visual artists here,
we're talking about all arts.
You are an idea generator, youare constantly.
You can't not be, you're in it,you're involved, you're
watching something, you'recreating, you're visualizing.
If you're not writing thesethings down or keeping track of
them, somehow you're starving usof something that you could

(01:17:00):
contribute to the arts, topeople outside of the arts right
that can influence, inspire anddo those things.
And I know we're going toreally get into into documenting
these and kind of what we doand ideas for it.
But man oh.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
We're kind of transitioning into tactical, you
know, tips here and just thingsthat that can be done with some
of the great ideas that thatthat we've been discussing.
From Lynch, I think writingthings down just just kind of
popped in my head as you were,as you were talking, Not a big
fish, a little fish, just camein my head.
But there's capturing the ideasthat have come.

(01:17:37):
If you're actually fishingboats have these things called
live wells, nice boats anyway,where you put the fish and
that's where you we got thatfish, we know it's going to be
there when we get out andwhatever.
But there's also, I think, interms of writing things down,
ideas come, you know, fish jumpin the freaking boat in the.

(01:17:58):
For me anyway, in the processof writing, In other words, I'll
start to capture an idea orwrite it and then, when you know
it, something just justmystical, magical, happens,
where just the pen keeps movingand that idea becomes more fully
formed.
Like he talks about other fish,because they like being around
their own kind, they jump on,they jump on, and now all of a

(01:18:21):
sudden you've got, because yousat down, invested the time to
capture the one, it then becomesmany and it then becomes a
bigger fish, it becomes morefully developed, and that that,
to me, is just like.
I mean, I don't know, I just Icannot imagine being a working

(01:18:43):
artist or a creative of any kindwithout having some type of way
of of logging and capturingideas.
I mean, I just think about, Isaid this is somebody recently I
said if, if all I do is executeon the ideas that I've got
written in my, in my journals,it would still take me, you know
, five more lifetimes.

(01:19:03):
Yeah, which means they're notall good, they're mostly not
good ideas.
Let's be clear, Like these arenot all, but some of them are,
you know, and so at a certainpoint it does come down to, you
know, discernment in determining, like all right, which of these
am I really going to put intopractice, but just knowing, it
just feels so good to know likeI got it, I have it and maybe I

(01:19:27):
don't revisit it for years tocome.
And you mentioned Witten earlierand we talked about, you know,
his journals, from Notes fromthe Woodshed, how ideas would
sort of resurface.
You know, over decades ofworking, and that's what's so
great about that book, which islike you see how they evolve and
how things that started, aslittle seeds that maybe he just
sort of wrote down as an asidein a moment and was working on

(01:19:50):
something else, you know, in thestudio, actually came to life
over time.
But the chances of actuallybeing able to execute on some of
those and having them sort of,like, you know, ferment and and
and and and grow over time is issuper, super valuable.
Like you have to do this.
Like we're talking here, here'sthe, here's the action steps.

(01:20:11):
If, if you're somebody whowants to do something with, with
these ideas, like if you're notin a journaling practice and if
you don't have a way ofcatching those fish, of
capturing those ideas, likestart now, because it will
fundamentally change the waythat you make art.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Yeah, and they come in fragments.
They're not always a full ideaflushed out, right.
They're bits and pieces, right?
Like he talked about the puzzle.
We talked about, like you did,catching all the little fish to
get to the big fish.
Right, you got to learn, yougot to gather, gather, gather,
and then you learn, oh, this ishow I catch that big fish, or
this is how, okay, the puzzle isnow finished.
This is the big idea that camefrom all these little ones.

(01:20:47):
And I think for me we've talkedabout this before I've got
multiple journals.
I've got one for art.
I've got one for sculptureideas I have to keep them
segmented, or else I get tooscatterbrained and then I've got
one for writing that hasoutlines for novels or scripts
for screenwriting.
Or then I have one that's justpoetry, where I write poetry.

(01:21:07):
And then I've got one that isfor video art and it's ideas for
video pieces, because I'll bein the studio working and then,
all of a sudden, something willclick, I'll have an idea.
I've got one for memories, whereI constantly am writing
memories that come forward.
There was this quote that Ishared the other day, that I saw
on Instagram, and it was apicture of all the kids from
Sandlot.

(01:21:27):
And the quote said somethingabout there's a time in life
when it's the last time you everplayed with a certain group of
friends.
Yeah Right, and it's kind of apretty sad like.
It's like not just single tier,it's like, oh my gosh, that's
right.
There was a moment in my lifewhere, all of a sudden, it was

(01:21:48):
the last day that so-and-so andI rode our bikes to school or
went to the river or played atthe lake, and so that quote hit
me.
So I instantly I startedwriting, I started locating as
many of those memories of thoselast moments that I could in my
head and I was going throughchildhood to elementary school,

(01:22:11):
to middle school, to high school, to college, to after college
too, and I started writing allthe people, all the places, all
the memories, and I was doing it.
And then I went there's a bodyof work, that's going to be a
body of work.
I don't know when I'll get toit, but that's going to be a
body of work.
And then it also made me go huh, I haven't done anything
figurative in probably 25 years,maybe 20 years.

(01:22:37):
Does this body of work need tobe figurative?
You know, and that's fragments.
It's little bits and pieces, Idon't know, but I'm writing it
down because I can tell youright now, in four years, I
would have forgot about thatmeme that I shared on Instagram,
that emotionally hit me, thatbrought something forward.
No way I'm remembering.
I probably wouldn't even haveremembered it today.

(01:22:59):
Right Screenshotted it, I wroteit down and I started writing.
So it's important.
We have to respect those whenthey come.
We're artists, people, we'recreators.
What's artists, people, we'recreators.
What's the best way to respectit?
Capture?

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
it and that's honoring the idea.
That is also sort of itreinforces that wiring for more
ideas to come.
And, as you're talking too, I'mthinking about how much it
actually frees up a lot of ourhard drive, so to speak.
Right, it makes it for meanyway.
It makes it way more justsimple to get back to work on

(01:23:39):
the thing that I'm actuallydoing at the time, as opposed to
if I don't write it down or ifwe don't capture it, then it's
just kind of like there, youknow, it's kind of like
interrupting the frequency ofyou know what we're actually
intending to work on at the time.
Once we capture it, once, it'scool.
Now we can go back to you knowwhat we were doing at the moment
, without that nagging feelingof like, oh, I don't want to

(01:24:00):
forget this.
Let's wrap up tie with somesort of tips and takeaways and
things that people might want todo.
We just talked about the firstone, which is you know, carry a
sketchbook, a voice recorder,you know photos, screenshots,
videos.
There's never been a bettertime in history to capture
things very easily with thedevice that, for better and for
worse, you probably have in yourpocket.

(01:24:21):
You know, most of the time, andso this is where, again, like
the art life that Lynch talksabout, where we have hooks in
the water all the time, we'rereceiving ideas, hopefully, you
know, throughout our day,throughout our waking hours, not
just when we're in the studio.
So have a system.
It doesn't matter what it is,but just have a way to make sure
you capture them and preferablysort of keep them in one place.

(01:24:42):
I have a number of different,you know, albums on my whatever
iPhone that are just art ideas.
It's mostly pictures of cracksin the street and things that
are falling apart.
That's whatever.
That's what I love, but it'sall types of things.
It's a screenshot fromsomething that I'll see online.
It's a technique that I'll seewalking by a construction site.

(01:25:03):
I could actually whatevercapture it, find a way of making
sure that you log those.
We talked about meditation.
I am not quite the level ofproponent that you, that you log
those.
You know we talked aboutmeditation.
I am not quite the level ofproponent that that that Lynch
was, but I'm a, I'm a fan, I, I,I can't.
It's one of my, my core.
You know handful of things thatI know that if I do them on a
consistent basis, my life isbetter and I just show up better

(01:25:26):
in life period.
You know the end, so it doesn'thave to be TM where you're, you
know could be, um, this,actually it's funny listening to
all these and and and andhearing him talk.
A lot of these videos are fromthe David Lynch foundation and,
uh, it kind of got me curiousabout some.
Maybe, I will, you know, go allin, but it could just be, uh,

(01:25:47):
you know, five minutes.
There's so many free apps orfree guided meditations on
YouTube that are just somethinglike that, where breath work is
a whole other world that hastremendous applications and
possibilities as well, butsomething, some type of a
meditation.
And then the last thing that wehad talked about was having a
setup.
This is actually something thatI've mentioned in previous

(01:26:09):
podcasts when I mentioned thisbook.
This is the thing that Iprobably talk about the most.
So this is the last thing we'llread from the book here before
we close with another audio ofLynch.
But this is from page 125 ofthe book Having a setup.
You need what I call a setup.
For example, you may need aworkshop or a working shop or a
working paint studio.
You may need a working musicstudio or a computer room where

(01:26:33):
you can write something.
It's crucial to have a setup sothat at any given moment when
you get an idea, you have theplace and the tools to make it
happen.
If you don't have a setup,there are many times when you
get the inspiration, the idea,but you have no tools, no place
to put it together and the ideajust sits there and festers over
time.

(01:26:53):
It will go away.
You didn't fulfill it andthat's just a heartache.
So having a setup when this hascome up in previous episodes,
it's mostly been within thecontext of understanding that
not everyone has the luxury ofhaving a studio and a space
where everything exists.
But the setup can be anything.
It can be a little whateverTupperware bin where all the

(01:27:15):
things that you have are thereand you pull it out and, boom,
you can.
If you haven't there it is, youcan.
You can get to work, but justknowing like, when the idea
comes and when you have the timeand space you know to actually
spend time in in your thing, tobe able to do it and to not have

(01:27:36):
.
Oh well, I got something I kindof want to do, but I got to
pull everything out and I thinkmy thing's over there and the
other thing's over here and havea setup and have it be
organized.
I was going to drop this quoteand it's okay that I didn't, I
suppose.
But he talks a lot about beingorganized, having a clean space,
having things be just so, andI've been told that I have some
version of OCD because of how,like before we record, I know

(01:27:56):
exactly how everything's got tobe just so.
But there's value in that,because I always joke when
you've got a messy mind.
Having a clean, organized spaceis really, really important.
It's super useful because youknow where things are and an
idea comes and I know I can walkto exactly the tool and the
material of which I havehundreds of all of the above

(01:28:18):
back there.
I can walk to exactly whereeverything is because I've got
it literally mapped out andlabeled.
But there's nothing worse than,oh, what if I tried this when
I'm working on something?
And oh, where is that?
And then 20 minutes later, likethe momentum, it's my setup,
that place for cultivating whenit pops in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
I can just leave what I'm doing, go sit for a minute,
be in a space where it ismeditative and it is my little
space where I can sit and kindof cultivate those things.
So I'm excited for that.
Okay, I think best way to endthis is just a parting goodbye
to David Lynch and just playinga video clip and let David's

(01:29:13):
words kind of lead us out ofthis episode.
What do you think, Nathan?

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
I love it.
Yeah, we'll wrap up.
Thanks for joining us.
Follow whatever, subscribe,share, blah, blah, blah or don't
.
I mean, it's your world, you'refree to do what you want.
Thanks for joining us.
Let's close with the immortalwords of Mr Munch the meaning of
life is the meaning of life?

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
So cool.
The meaning of life is totality, everything More than the most,
smaller than the smallest,larger than the largest.
Totality.
The human being is an exquisitebeing and we have a potential,

(01:30:04):
and that potential is calledenlightenment, fulfillment,
total fulfillment, liberation,salvation, fulfillment, total
fulfillment, liberation,salvation, and it's huge,
supreme enlightenment.
That's the meaning of life, themeaning Know it by being it.

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David Lynch on Ideas, Meditation and Artistic Freedom.

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