January 16, 2025 • 29 mins
The episode explores the importance of creating art for oneself rather than seeking outside validation. Through insights from influential figures like Rick Rubin and Patti Smith, it emphasizes the need for genuine expression, resilience amid challenges, and setting clear goals for the creative journey.
• Rick Rubin advocates making art for oneself
• Reflecting on the year highlights periods of apathy
• The importance of setting micro-goals for artistic progress
• Patti Smith’s insights on artistry without audience expectations
• William Burroughs on maintaining a good reputation in art
• Embracing life’s challenges as part of the creative process
• Building networks and collaborating with other artists
• Encouragement to celebrate small achievements
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The only advice I would have would be to not
listen to anyone and to do whatyou love and to make things that
you love, whatever it is.
Make, make your favorite things, be the audience.
You be the audience.
Make the thing for you, theaudience.
It doesn't really matter whatanyone else thinks, and if you
have to get a job to supportyourself so that you can make
(00:32):
your art, that's fine.
You can't make art with someoneelse in mind.
I don't believe.
I don't believe it can be good.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So that was Rick Rubin.
A lot of you know his voice.
A lot of you have read his bookthat he put out a few years ago
, the Creative Act A Way ofbeing A fantastic book.
I've read it, gone through it afew times.
Really simply written, nothing,really difficult, just really
incredible sound advice from oneof the greatest music producers
(01:04):
in the history of music who hastouched on numerous and
numerous different genres ofmusic, and I wanted to just
share that as I'm looking at2025, this new year that we're
in, and reflecting on 2024 andsetting up some milestones and
(01:26):
things that I would love tochase and go after this next
year.
And so I came across that onYouTube just going through a
bunch of different things, andI'm going to share some other
fun advice from some famouspeople coming up.
But, as I was thinking back on2024 for myself man
(01:47):
vulnerability coming your wayright now from me and I feel
like it was the most apatheticyear I have had in my entire
life from numerous levels.
And I don't know I think I'vetalked about this a little bit
in the cast that maybe it wasturning 50 and just kind of
reflecting on life.
I don't know what it was.
But as artists, we are going toconstantly have these moments
(02:11):
of apathy.
I like to think of them more asapathy than creative block.
I'm not a believer in creativeblock.
We can become apathetic in ourcreating and that leads to
moments of staleness or tryingto figure out what to do and
things don't come out.
And so looking back on thisyear is like, okay, what did I
(02:33):
achieve?
What did I accomplish?
Right, we need to do that.
As artists, we need to look backon our year.
We need to look at the work wemade or didn't make, the things
we really want to do, the bigdreams we had for that year that
maybe we just couldn't get toNow.
This is a long game.
Everybody remember that.
This is a long, long, slow game, and so we can't set these
(02:55):
milestones or goals orachievements that we want to
reach right, name it whateveryou want to and look back in
disappointment when we don'treach them.
If we're trying, okay, let meget that straight If you are
trying, if you're not trying andyou're just sitting around,
well, nothing's going to happen.
But if you're trying and thosethings aren't happening now, you
(03:20):
need to look back and go okay,how can I improve on?
How can I be better than howcan I use my time more wisely?
And so the reason I wanted Iplayed that Rick Rubin um audio
was because what is he talkingabout?
Doing what we love, right, likedoing what we love more than
anything and investing ourselvesin that, and us being the
(03:42):
audience us, me, myself,yourself being the audience for
what you're making, and notthinking about the outside world
and thinking about those otherthings, but making the work.
We're making it for us.
Then, in the hopes when it'sstrong enough or we're happy
with that finished product, weput it out into the world.
And I love what he says when hesays do what you need to do to
(04:14):
make the art.
Do what you need to do.
What do you need to do to havethe ability or the financial
capability to make the art youwant to make?
I was making a list today ofthings.
I was going back through theArtist's Way by Julia Cameron
and I was doing some of theexercises, and one of the
exercises was what are fivethings you would dare to do if
you had the ability to do itfinancially?
What would they be?
So I wrote them down and thenit was.
(04:36):
The next question was what aresome of the things you did when
you were 20 that you love to do?
Write five of those things down.
Now, fast forward to being 65.
What are the things that youhave you love to do?
Right Five of those things down.
Now, fast forward to being 65.
What are the things that youhave the ability to do then?
And then it kind of had you goback and forth between 20 and 60
and all these things andlooking at if you had the money
(04:56):
things you used to do that youlove to do all those things.
What do you need to do to makethe art?
I have plenty of artist friendsthat have part-time jobs,
full-time jobs, two jobs, threejobs or, as Jerry salt says,
they have a sugar mama or asugar daddy.
Right, I have a mentorshipprogram that I use to help pay
(05:17):
for my studio costs and thingsand I also have a sugar mama.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
I'm very blessed that my wifehas built a business that has
become very successful and Ihave the ability to make art
full time and also teach otherweekends and I made art late at
night and all those things.
But don't make art with someoneelse in mind.
(05:39):
Make your art, make what youwant to do and make a good name.
And I want to play anincredible clip, one of my
favorite clips, from aninterview with one of my heroes,
(06:01):
my absolute heroes Patti Smith,the singer, songwriter and poet
Patti Smith.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
A writer or any artist can't expect to be
embraced by the people.
I've done records where itseemed like no one listened to
them.
You write poetry books thatmaybe 50 people read and you
just keep doing your workbecause you have to, because
it's your calling.
But it's beautiful to beembraced by the people.
(06:31):
Some people have said to mewell, you know, don't you think
that kind of success spoils oneas a artist?
Or you know, if you're a punkrocker, you don't want to have a
hit record.
And I say, you know, fuck you.
You know, it's just like onedoes their work for the people
(06:53):
and the more people you cantouch, the more wonderful it is.
You don everyone to betransported or hopefully
inspired by it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I love that.
I love Patty.
Anytime you hear her talk Ijust get chills and I just want
to go curl up at her feet with ablanket and have her just give
me a feast of wisdom andknowledge.
But I can get that fromlistening to her music and
reading her books and hearingher talk.
But I love because now, okay,audience, rick Rubin was just
(07:33):
telling us don't think about theaudience, make the work for you
.
Now Patty is taking that and sheis saying a writer or any
artist can't expect to beembraced by the people.
Right, you can't expect it.
She's made records that itseemed like nobody listened to.
She's written books that only50 people have read, so and so.
But you keep making it, youkeep making it, you keep going.
(07:55):
But if you're completelyconcerned with the audience
liking what you do, it's goingto seep its way into your studio
.
It's going to affect the ideasyou have and the experiments you
may try and the risks you maytake to grow, to get to the work
that you really envision, right, absolutely.
And I love how she says it'syour calling.
(08:17):
And it's also beautiful to beembraced by the people, right,
right, when we're confident withthe work, where the work is
where we want it to be, where weare happy with it and we are
confident in it.
Now is the time we let it go outto the people, and if we're not
embraced by the people, that'sokay.
(08:38):
Take a day or two to cry, takea day or two to curl up in a
ball and watch some Netflix andthen get over it and move on,
because we're trying right.
That's what we said.
We're trying, but there is thepossibility that the audience
may like it.
The audience, a collector maybuy it, a gallery may want to
(08:58):
show it, a residency may acceptyou because of that work that
you created.
So, thank you, patty.
Great, great reminder.
Check this out.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
When I was really young, william Burroughs told me
and I was really struggling, wenever had any money and,
william, the advice that Williamgave me was build a good name,
keep your name clean, don't makecompromises, don't worry about
(09:30):
making a bunch of money or beingsuccessful.
Be concerned with doing goodwork and make the right choices
and protect your work.
And if you build a good name,eventually you know that name
will be its own currency.
And I remember when he told methat and I said yeah, but
William, my name's Smith, youknow, just joking, but oh man, I
(10:00):
mean, imagine having WilliamBurroughs around you when you
were a kid to get advice from.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Are you kidding me?
I mean, that's amazing.
And listen, one does their workfor the people, and the more
people you can touch, the morewonderful.
It is right, we're stillseparating the audience.
We're creating our work, butisn't the goal to touch people's
lives with what we create?
Right?
Is that not the goal?
If your goal is completely tomake money and just be wealthy
(10:30):
and sell your work, well, I mean, I hate to say it and that's
fine, that's great, right?
Like Jerry Salt says, I wantevery artist to be rich.
It's just not that way.
If that's your sole focus andyour sole goal, I think you're
going to miss out on making somereally great art throughout
your lifetime, and that may notbe important to you.
That may not.
That's fine.
Do what you want to do.
(10:51):
That's not why I make art, andwe can sit and argue over drinks
about that.
If you want some time, that'sfine with me as well.
But I love that.
William Burroughs told her whenshe was really struggling.
You know, she had no money, shehad nothing, and he told her
just build a good name.
How?
Um, she had nothing.
And he told her just build agood name.
How often do we think aboutthat these days?
(11:12):
I feel like that's somethingthat's totally missing in our
society, that people are reallyfocused on and concerned with
building a good name, havinggood character, good standing.
He says keep your name clean,don't compromise or worry about
making a bunch of money or beingsuccessful.
Be concerned with doing goodwork and making right choices to
(11:33):
protect your work.
The second you start to sampleor get a taste of financial
success and market success, yourun the risk of it diluting your
work.
At success, you run the risk ofit diluting your work because
(11:55):
your focus then leaves the workand it starts gearing towards
well, now I live at a lifestylethat is X, y, z, so much higher
than I was, but I have tomaintain that right.
The focuses are going to getway larger in other areas of
life than in your studio, wherethe focus is really big.
And I love how he says if youbuild a good name, eventually
(12:16):
that name will be its owncurrency.
Eventually your name willbecome its own currency why?
Well, because your name is nowrecognized and synonymous with
your work.
Recognize and synonymous withyour work and you've spent all
this time building andexperimenting, taking risks and
growing your work and notworrying about the audience and
(12:37):
trying to improve and get thework out the door that
eventually, the name will besynonymous with the work and the
work.
The name will become thecurrency 2025, a new year, new
doors, new life.
Let's think about that.
Let's build a good name behindwhat we're doing and creating.
I really, really love that.
(12:58):
Here's some more from Patty.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
To be an artist, actually to be a human being in
these times.
It's all difficult.
You have to go through lifehopefully.
You know trying to stay healthy.
You know being as happy as youcan and pursuing.
You know doing what you want.
If what you want is to havechildren, if what you want is to
(13:25):
be a baker, if what you want isto live out in the woods or try
to save the environment, ormaybe what you want is to be a
baker, if what you want is tolive out in the woods or try to
save the environment, or maybewhat you want is to write
scripts for detective shows, itdoesn't really matter.
What matters is to know whatyou want and pursue it and
understand that it's going to behard because life is really
(13:50):
difficult.
You're going to lose people youlove, you're going to suffer
heartbreak, sometimes you'll besick, sometimes you'll have a
really bad toothache, sometimesyou'll be hungry, but on the
other end you'll have the mostbeautiful experiences, sometimes
just the sky, sometimes a pieceof work that you do that feels
(14:15):
so wonderful, or you findsomebody to love, or your
children.
There's beautiful things inlife.
So when you're suffering, it'spart of the package.
You know.
You look at it, we're born andwe also have to die.
We know that.
So it makes sense that we'regoing to be really happy and
(14:39):
things are going to be reallyfucked up too.
Just ride with it.
You know, it's like arollercoaster ride.
It's never going to be perfect.
It's going to have perfectmoments and then rough spots,
but it's all worth it.
Believe me, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Just ride with it.
Just ride with it.
It's not easy.
You back at my 2024, there werea lot of things I did not want
to ride with.
I had some beautiful moments.
I had some incredible momentsin 2024, like life-changing,
(15:20):
character-building, impactfulmoments, but I also had a bunch
of moments of just stagnant, notdoing what I wanted to do,
Things not working the way Iwanted them to work, Career
things stalling or moving indirections that I thought would
move further and they're not allthose things Right.
And, as Patty says, if you'regoing to be an artist, hold on
(15:44):
timeout, not just artists,actually a human being.
Today, in these times, it's alldifficult.
We're going to have times whenwe're healthy, when we're sick,
when we're happy, when we're not.
If what you want to do is whatyou want to do, it doesn't
matter.
(16:04):
What matters is do you knowwhat you want?
This is what I've been kind ofgoal searching and this is what
I've been kind of mind mapping.
Well, what do I want?
I know I want to make the bestwork I can make in my lifetime.
I know I want to do moresculpture.
I know I want to do a lot morefiber, like big fiber things.
(16:24):
Within my work.
It's been leading me that way.
I need to pursue it.
I have the understanding thatit's going to be difficult,
because I've been in this worldfor a long time.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to be very, verydifficult.
And then when we mix life intothe difficulty of us being
(16:44):
artists in the studio, withwhatever we're making and doing
and the challenges now we'remixing life on the outside in,
as Patty said, we lose people welove.
We're going to sufferheartbreak, be sick, We'll be
hungry, but at the other endthere's beautiful experiences as
well, and sometimes we justneed the sky.
I love that.
She said that in there.
I always encourage the artiststhat go through my mentorship
(17:08):
program and my friends take timefor soul care.
Please, please, please, taketime for soul care.
I don't know what that lookslike for you, but sometimes
maybe you just need to stepoutside, stand in the yard or
the street or on the rooftops,wherever you are, and just look
at the sky, that magical,beautiful, awe-inspiring piece
(17:36):
of creation that may be blue orred or yellow, or look at the
stars, whatever that is.
That's art.
It's the most beautiful artthat exists.
Sometimes you just need to goout there and just look at the
sky and then I love that.
She says sometimes just a pieceof work that you do feel so
(17:58):
wonderful.
Celebrate those moments more,looking back on 2024.
I thought I didn't do anything,I didn't make enough art.
All this stuff, I made stuff, Idid things.
Maybe it wasn't where I wantedit to be, which is pretty normal
for me.
I'm always.
My head is so far ahead of whatI'm executing in the studio.
But I look back and there werea few pieces that I thought were
(18:21):
really wonderful.
I need to celebrate thoserather than be apathetic and
think I didn't accomplishanything, Because all those
pieces that I did, happy or not,are leading me to the next
pieces that I'm going to createthis year.
It's just part of the package.
All of this, like she said, isjust part of the package.
(18:42):
Nathan obviously isn't heretoday.
He is in Munich.
He has his solo show major soloshow opening this Friday.
I wish I was there.
I was really hoping I'd sell afew more paintings at the end of
the year last year so that Icould accompany him on the trip.
I know that he's going to berecording a couple episodes from
(19:03):
the Benjamin Eck Gallery wherehis work will be showing in
Munich, Germany.
So if you're in Munich, ifyou're German, or if you're in
Europe and you're close toGermany, if you're close to
Munich, in Munich, if you'reGerman, or if you're in Europe
and you're close to Germany, ifyou're close to Munich this
coming Friday yes, this Fridayof this week Nathan's show will
be opening and I've seen thework.
I've walked through the workwith him.
He and I have discussed thework with our friend, Eric Brees
(19:25):
um numerous times over the pastmonths as he's been working on
it, and it is wonderful,Absolutely incredibly wonderful.
I'm so excited.
I'm sure that Benjamin Eck isgoing to be going crazy for the
work because it looks absolutelyincredible.
So if you're in Munich,definitely go to the Benjamin
(19:47):
Eck Gallery and see the show.
Also, tell people about to.
He'll have posts on Instagram.
You'll see the work.
You'll see him showing it.
So many fun things for Nathanthat are coming ahead that just
I can't wait for you guys to see, as as we share those over the
next few weeks.
I have some fun things happeningthis year that I'm really
(20:08):
excited about.
I mean, they happened right atthe beginning of the year after
I made my list of things that Iwant to go after.
This year.
I made a list right.
I've been looking at myfinances from last year.
I've been looking at smallmicro goals and little things to
try and accomplish and go after.
I've been looking at bigpicture goals, career pushing
goals and a few things havehappened without that I had on
(20:30):
my list that I haven't eventried.
They just kind of were there.
I'll be on a really dearfriend's podcast we're recording
this Friday called the AlchemyLab.
It's brand new.
I think I'm going to be thefirst episode, so I'm really
excited.
My dear friend Alison Adams.
I've known her for a long, longtime and she is a beautiful,
(20:52):
absolutely incredible, wonderfulsoul and a fantastic artist.
She has an incredible idea forthis new podcast and she's been
painting these alchemy cards todo like a set of cards with.
And they are.
They're incredible, they're socool.
So we will definitely push thatout as that comes.
Set some goals.
(21:12):
What do you want to do thisyear?
What do you want to accomplish?
What are you looking forward to?
What was rough last year thatyou can change this upcoming
year?
Is there anything that you cando to build your network?
That's so important?
Connect deeper with otherartists.
Spend more time with otherartists Talking about your work,
Talking about your work,talking about your goals and
(21:33):
where you want to go.
You need that accountability.
Trust me, you better have thataccountability, because it's too
too hard to do by yourself.
It's too hard.
Do some WhatsApp video, mess uhtalks with other artists, get
to know people.
Do some Instagram lives withother artists and just talk
about what you're making andwhat you're doing and what your
(21:54):
goals are and invite otherartists to take part.
Set up a show in your apartment, in your garage, in a local
cafe, with other artists,friends of yours, just so that
you can connect and add a lineon that resume.
Right, Do what you need to doto push the career further, Even
if you're doing your own things.
I know we encourage that a lotDo your own stuff sometimes, but
(22:19):
I just want to encourage youall.
This year, Nathan and I will beback together shortly after his
Munich trip and he, like I said,he's doing an episode there
with the curator who, from Milan, Italy, who's curating his
exhibition there.
So we're excited to share that.
We've got some really funthings coming up this year.
But go network, meet somepeople go see some shows.
(22:41):
Tomorrow I head to Houston.
I'll be down in Houstondropping work off to one of my
dealers, Mont art house downtownHouston, who I adore.
I love them, Just such abeautiful group of women and
dropping off new work for themand bringing old work back.
But I'm also having an art date, something that Julia Cameron,
(23:02):
from the Artist's Way, really,really pushes hard.
Take yourself on a date,artists.
Take yourself out, as theywould say in Parks and Rec.
Donna and Tom, treat yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh, what you want to Donna.
Teller T-Mobile Three words foryou.
Treat yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Treat yourself 2011.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Once a year, donna and I spend a day treating
ourselves.
What do we treat ourselves to?
Clothes, treat yourself.
Fragrances, treat yourself.
Massages, treat yourself.
Mimosances, treat yourself.
Massages, treat yourself.
Mimosas, treat yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Fine leather goods, treat yourself.
It's the best day of the year.
The best day of the year.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Take yourself out, treat yourself to an art date,
whatever that may be.
I'll be down there.
I'm a member of the Museum ofFine Arts Houston, so I'll be
going to the MFAH and spending anumber of hours there looking
at work contemporary and workfrom art history, and then I'll
probably walk over to CAMHouston and see the work that
(24:02):
they have.
And then I'll walk over to theTwombly across the street and
spend a considerable amount oftime with Cy Twombly and his
work, thinking and writing anddreaming, and then I will walk
(24:23):
about a block and a half down tothe Rothko Chapel to just sit
and spend some time in solitudearound the beautiful Rothko
pieces, and then I'll head backthe next day, so I'll be staying
the night.
I've already been researchingsome of the top new restaurants
on Eater and top chefs inHouston so I can treat myself to
a really good, fun dinner.
(24:44):
But take the time to do that.
Sometimes I don't know whatthat looks like for you.
Is it a walk on the beach witha bottle of wine?
Is it going to a movie byyourself?
I love going to movies bymyself because I can see the
films I want to see.
They're not a shared film.
I laugh about that all the time.
My wife and I have differenttastes and things.
There's a lot of things we likethat are the same, but when it
(25:05):
comes to film, very different.
So I want to go see my films.
So I'll take myself on a filmdate sometimes and just go see a
movie by myself.
We need that time.
We need downtime from artsometimes too right To separate
ourselves and just have thattime doing something we enjoy.
Maybe that's going and hittingsome golf balls I don't know
what it is for you, but find it.
(25:26):
Go, do it.
Get outside, look at the sky.
Start planning for this year.
If you haven't been doing it, Ihighly encourage you to start
doing it now.
Set some small goals for thisyear.
They don't have to be 20.
It could be a few.
A few small goals Apply to fiveresidencies.
(25:46):
Apply to two in the US, threeinternational, three in the US,
two international.
Apply for an artist grant.
Apply to five group shows.
Small micro goals.
Set some macro goals to somebig achievements.
Maybe it's you've wanted to golarge scale.
(26:08):
Try a six foot or eight footpainting.
Maybe you wanted to sculpt.
Buy some clay.
Do five clay sculptures.
Set some goals that you can goafter, and if you don't finish
them, well, then next year, okay, I need to make sure to do that
, but if you set some small ones, you can at least try right,
(26:28):
and that's what we really wantto influence you all to really
really try.
We know how bad you want it,nathan, and I want it just as
bad for us.
We know how bad you all wantthis.
That's why you're listening,that's why you're in your
studios.
That's why we get incrediblecomments from you about things
you're doing.
We love to hear what you'redoing, so please share with us
(26:49):
the things you're doing.
Please share the podcast withyour friends you're doing, so
please share with us the thingsyou're doing.
Please share the podcast withyour friends.
It's growing rapidly, but wewould love more artists and more
people.
And, don't forget, we lovehearing your questions, so we
will definitely throw yourquestions in and sprinkle them
into episodes throughout theyear, so we would love to hear
what you have to say.
Have a blessed rest of the week.
(27:10):
I hope that 2025 is magical foryou and there's just incredible
things, man, our prayers areout there for all of our friends
in California who arestruggling with the fires.
I have had close friends losehomes.
I've had a lot of friendsevacuate.
The fires are not under controlyet, as the Santa Ana winds
(27:31):
that I grew up with are insanewhen they happen and when you
have a natural disaster it'snear impossible to control a
fire.
I grew up around forest fires inNorthern California and the
Sierra Nevadas um my whole lifeand I even worked some summers
doing um forest clearing, umprepping for the possibility of
fires and clearing out trees andbrush and creating space so
(27:54):
that things don't spread far.
So I've had a lot of friends whoare hotshot firefighters guys
that go drop into the middle offorest fires to clear and take
care of things as everybody elsecomes in, and so I am very
familiar with forest fires andjust want to thank all of those
firefighters that are bustingtheir asses to help save homes.
(28:17):
And I know there are a lot oforganizations out there that are
helping artists who have loststudios and homes and things.
So please do your due diligence.
If you're going to donateartwork or donate money or help,
please do your due diligence tofind legitimate organizations
to give to, becauseunfortunately there are a lot of
(28:39):
fraudulent ones takingadvantage of people with amazing
hearts who are giving at thistime as well.
So, um with that, uh, this isTy being solo signing off.
Love you all.
We will see you soon.
Go make some art, bye.
The only advice I would have would be to not
listen to anyone and to do whatyou love and to make things that
you love, whatever it is.
Make, make your favorite things, be the audience.
You be the audience.
Make the thing for you, theaudience.
It doesn't really matter whatanyone else thinks, and if you
have to get a job to supportyourself so that you can make
(00:32):
your art, that's fine.
You can't make art with someoneelse in mind.
I don't believe.
I don't believe it can be good.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So that was Rick Rubin.
A lot of you know his voice.
A lot of you have read his bookthat he put out a few years ago
, the Creative Act A Way ofbeing A fantastic book.
I've read it, gone through it afew times.
Really simply written, nothing,really difficult, just really
incredible sound advice from oneof the greatest music producers
(01:04):
in the history of music who hastouched on numerous and
numerous different genres ofmusic, and I wanted to just
share that as I'm looking at2025, this new year that we're
in, and reflecting on 2024 andsetting up some milestones and
(01:26):
things that I would love tochase and go after this next
year.
And so I came across that onYouTube just going through a
bunch of different things, andI'm going to share some other
fun advice from some famouspeople coming up.
But, as I was thinking back on2024 for myself man
(01:47):
vulnerability coming your wayright now from me and I feel
like it was the most apatheticyear I have had in my entire
life from numerous levels.
And I don't know I think I'vetalked about this a little bit
in the cast that maybe it wasturning 50 and just kind of
reflecting on life.
I don't know what it was.
But as artists, we are going toconstantly have these moments
(02:11):
of apathy.
I like to think of them more asapathy than creative block.
I'm not a believer in creativeblock.
We can become apathetic in ourcreating and that leads to
moments of staleness or tryingto figure out what to do and
things don't come out.
And so looking back on thisyear is like, okay, what did I
(02:33):
achieve?
What did I accomplish?
Right, we need to do that.
As artists, we need to look backon our year.
We need to look at the work wemade or didn't make, the things
we really want to do, the bigdreams we had for that year that
maybe we just couldn't get toNow.
This is a long game.
Everybody remember that.
This is a long, long, slow game, and so we can't set these
(02:55):
milestones or goals orachievements that we want to
reach right, name it whateveryou want to and look back in
disappointment when we don'treach them.
If we're trying, okay, let meget that straight If you are
trying, if you're not trying andyou're just sitting around,
well, nothing's going to happen.
But if you're trying and thosethings aren't happening now, you
(03:20):
need to look back and go okay,how can I improve on?
How can I be better than howcan I use my time more wisely?
And so the reason I wanted Iplayed that Rick Rubin um audio
was because what is he talkingabout?
Doing what we love, right, likedoing what we love more than
anything and investing ourselvesin that, and us being the
(03:42):
audience us, me, myself,yourself being the audience for
what you're making, and notthinking about the outside world
and thinking about those otherthings, but making the work.
We're making it for us.
Then, in the hopes when it'sstrong enough or we're happy
with that finished product, weput it out into the world.
And I love what he says when hesays do what you need to do to
(04:14):
make the art.
Do what you need to do.
What do you need to do to havethe ability or the financial
capability to make the art youwant to make?
I was making a list today ofthings.
I was going back through theArtist's Way by Julia Cameron
and I was doing some of theexercises, and one of the
exercises was what are fivethings you would dare to do if
you had the ability to do itfinancially?
What would they be?
So I wrote them down and thenit was.
(04:36):
The next question was what aresome of the things you did when
you were 20 that you love to do?
Write five of those things down.
Now, fast forward to being 65.
What are the things that youhave you love to do?
Right Five of those things down.
Now, fast forward to being 65.
What are the things that youhave the ability to do then?
And then it kind of had you goback and forth between 20 and 60
and all these things andlooking at if you had the money
(04:56):
things you used to do that youlove to do all those things.
What do you need to do to makethe art?
I have plenty of artist friendsthat have part-time jobs,
full-time jobs, two jobs, threejobs or, as Jerry salt says,
they have a sugar mama or asugar daddy.
Right, I have a mentorshipprogram that I use to help pay
(05:17):
for my studio costs and thingsand I also have a sugar mama.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
I'm very blessed that my wifehas built a business that has
become very successful and Ihave the ability to make art
full time and also teach otherweekends and I made art late at
night and all those things.
But don't make art with someoneelse in mind.
(05:39):
Make your art, make what youwant to do and make a good name.
And I want to play anincredible clip, one of my
favorite clips, from aninterview with one of my heroes,
(06:01):
my absolute heroes Patti Smith,the singer, songwriter and poet
Patti Smith.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
A writer or any artist can't expect to be
embraced by the people.
I've done records where itseemed like no one listened to
them.
You write poetry books thatmaybe 50 people read and you
just keep doing your workbecause you have to, because
it's your calling.
But it's beautiful to beembraced by the people.
(06:31):
Some people have said to mewell, you know, don't you think
that kind of success spoils oneas a artist?
Or you know, if you're a punkrocker, you don't want to have a
hit record.
And I say, you know, fuck you.
You know, it's just like onedoes their work for the people
(06:53):
and the more people you cantouch, the more wonderful it is.
You don everyone to betransported or hopefully
inspired by it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I love that.
I love Patty.
Anytime you hear her talk Ijust get chills and I just want
to go curl up at her feet with ablanket and have her just give
me a feast of wisdom andknowledge.
But I can get that fromlistening to her music and
reading her books and hearingher talk.
But I love because now, okay,audience, rick Rubin was just
(07:33):
telling us don't think about theaudience, make the work for you
.
Now Patty is taking that and sheis saying a writer or any
artist can't expect to beembraced by the people.
Right, you can't expect it.
She's made records that itseemed like nobody listened to.
She's written books that only50 people have read, so and so.
But you keep making it, youkeep making it, you keep going.
(07:55):
But if you're completelyconcerned with the audience
liking what you do, it's goingto seep its way into your studio
.
It's going to affect the ideasyou have and the experiments you
may try and the risks you maytake to grow, to get to the work
that you really envision, right, absolutely.
And I love how she says it'syour calling.
(08:17):
And it's also beautiful to beembraced by the people, right,
right, when we're confident withthe work, where the work is
where we want it to be, where weare happy with it and we are
confident in it.
Now is the time we let it go outto the people, and if we're not
embraced by the people, that'sokay.
(08:38):
Take a day or two to cry, takea day or two to curl up in a
ball and watch some Netflix andthen get over it and move on,
because we're trying right.
That's what we said.
We're trying, but there is thepossibility that the audience
may like it.
The audience, a collector maybuy it, a gallery may want to
(08:58):
show it, a residency may acceptyou because of that work that
you created.
So, thank you, patty.
Great, great reminder.
Check this out.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
When I was really young, william Burroughs told me
and I was really struggling, wenever had any money and,
william, the advice that Williamgave me was build a good name,
keep your name clean, don't makecompromises, don't worry about
(09:30):
making a bunch of money or beingsuccessful.
Be concerned with doing goodwork and make the right choices
and protect your work.
And if you build a good name,eventually you know that name
will be its own currency.
And I remember when he told methat and I said yeah, but
William, my name's Smith, youknow, just joking, but oh man, I
(10:00):
mean, imagine having WilliamBurroughs around you when you
were a kid to get advice from.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Are you kidding me?
I mean, that's amazing.
And listen, one does their workfor the people, and the more
people you can touch, the morewonderful.
It is right, we're stillseparating the audience.
We're creating our work, butisn't the goal to touch people's
lives with what we create?
Right?
Is that not the goal?
If your goal is completely tomake money and just be wealthy
(10:30):
and sell your work, well, I mean, I hate to say it and that's
fine, that's great, right?
Like Jerry Salt says, I wantevery artist to be rich.
It's just not that way.
If that's your sole focus andyour sole goal, I think you're
going to miss out on making somereally great art throughout
your lifetime, and that may notbe important to you.
That may not.
That's fine.
Do what you want to do.
(10:51):
That's not why I make art, andwe can sit and argue over drinks
about that.
If you want some time, that'sfine with me as well.
But I love that.
William Burroughs told her whenshe was really struggling.
You know, she had no money, shehad nothing, and he told her
just build a good name.
How?
Um, she had nothing.
And he told her just build agood name.
How often do we think aboutthat these days?
(11:12):
I feel like that's somethingthat's totally missing in our
society, that people are reallyfocused on and concerned with
building a good name, havinggood character, good standing.
He says keep your name clean,don't compromise or worry about
making a bunch of money or beingsuccessful.
Be concerned with doing goodwork and making right choices to
(11:33):
protect your work.
The second you start to sampleor get a taste of financial
success and market success, yourun the risk of it diluting your
work.
At success, you run the risk ofit diluting your work because
(11:55):
your focus then leaves the workand it starts gearing towards
well, now I live at a lifestylethat is X, y, z, so much higher
than I was, but I have tomaintain that right.
The focuses are going to getway larger in other areas of
life than in your studio, wherethe focus is really big.
And I love how he says if youbuild a good name, eventually
(12:16):
that name will be its owncurrency.
Eventually your name willbecome its own currency why?
Well, because your name is nowrecognized and synonymous with
your work.
Recognize and synonymous withyour work and you've spent all
this time building andexperimenting, taking risks and
growing your work and notworrying about the audience and
(12:37):
trying to improve and get thework out the door that
eventually, the name will besynonymous with the work and the
work.
The name will become thecurrency 2025, a new year, new
doors, new life.
Let's think about that.
Let's build a good name behindwhat we're doing and creating.
I really, really love that.
(12:58):
Here's some more from Patty.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
To be an artist, actually to be a human being in
these times.
It's all difficult.
You have to go through lifehopefully.
You know trying to stay healthy.
You know being as happy as youcan and pursuing.
You know doing what you want.
If what you want is to havechildren, if what you want is to
(13:25):
be a baker, if what you want isto live out in the woods or try
to save the environment, ormaybe what you want is to be a
baker, if what you want is tolive out in the woods or try to
save the environment, or maybewhat you want is to write
scripts for detective shows, itdoesn't really matter.
What matters is to know whatyou want and pursue it and
understand that it's going to behard because life is really
(13:50):
difficult.
You're going to lose people youlove, you're going to suffer
heartbreak, sometimes you'll besick, sometimes you'll have a
really bad toothache, sometimesyou'll be hungry, but on the
other end you'll have the mostbeautiful experiences, sometimes
just the sky, sometimes a pieceof work that you do that feels
(14:15):
so wonderful, or you findsomebody to love, or your
children.
There's beautiful things inlife.
So when you're suffering, it'spart of the package.
You know.
You look at it, we're born andwe also have to die.
We know that.
So it makes sense that we'regoing to be really happy and
(14:39):
things are going to be reallyfucked up too.
Just ride with it.
You know, it's like arollercoaster ride.
It's never going to be perfect.
It's going to have perfectmoments and then rough spots,
but it's all worth it.
Believe me, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Just ride with it.
Just ride with it.
It's not easy.
You back at my 2024, there werea lot of things I did not want
to ride with.
I had some beautiful moments.
I had some incredible momentsin 2024, like life-changing,
(15:20):
character-building, impactfulmoments, but I also had a bunch
of moments of just stagnant, notdoing what I wanted to do,
Things not working the way Iwanted them to work, Career
things stalling or moving indirections that I thought would
move further and they're not allthose things Right.
And, as Patty says, if you'regoing to be an artist, hold on
(15:44):
timeout, not just artists,actually a human being.
Today, in these times, it's alldifficult.
We're going to have times whenwe're healthy, when we're sick,
when we're happy, when we're not.
If what you want to do is whatyou want to do, it doesn't
matter.
(16:04):
What matters is do you knowwhat you want?
This is what I've been kind ofgoal searching and this is what
I've been kind of mind mapping.
Well, what do I want?
I know I want to make the bestwork I can make in my lifetime.
I know I want to do moresculpture.
I know I want to do a lot morefiber, like big fiber things.
(16:24):
Within my work.
It's been leading me that way.
I need to pursue it.
I have the understanding thatit's going to be difficult,
because I've been in this worldfor a long time.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to be very, verydifficult.
And then when we mix life intothe difficulty of us being
(16:44):
artists in the studio, withwhatever we're making and doing
and the challenges now we'remixing life on the outside in,
as Patty said, we lose people welove.
We're going to sufferheartbreak, be sick, We'll be
hungry, but at the other endthere's beautiful experiences as
well, and sometimes we justneed the sky.
I love that.
She said that in there.
I always encourage the artiststhat go through my mentorship
(17:08):
program and my friends take timefor soul care.
Please, please, please, taketime for soul care.
I don't know what that lookslike for you, but sometimes
maybe you just need to stepoutside, stand in the yard or
the street or on the rooftops,wherever you are, and just look
at the sky, that magical,beautiful, awe-inspiring piece
(17:36):
of creation that may be blue orred or yellow, or look at the
stars, whatever that is.
That's art.
It's the most beautiful artthat exists.
Sometimes you just need to goout there and just look at the
sky and then I love that.
She says sometimes just a pieceof work that you do feel so
(17:58):
wonderful.
Celebrate those moments more,looking back on 2024.
I thought I didn't do anything,I didn't make enough art.
All this stuff, I made stuff, Idid things.
Maybe it wasn't where I wantedit to be, which is pretty normal
for me.
I'm always.
My head is so far ahead of whatI'm executing in the studio.
But I look back and there werea few pieces that I thought were
(18:21):
really wonderful.
I need to celebrate thoserather than be apathetic and
think I didn't accomplishanything, Because all those
pieces that I did, happy or not,are leading me to the next
pieces that I'm going to createthis year.
It's just part of the package.
All of this, like she said, isjust part of the package.
(18:42):
Nathan obviously isn't heretoday.
He is in Munich.
He has his solo show major soloshow opening this Friday.
I wish I was there.
I was really hoping I'd sell afew more paintings at the end of
the year last year so that Icould accompany him on the trip.
I know that he's going to berecording a couple episodes from
(19:03):
the Benjamin Eck Gallery wherehis work will be showing in
Munich, Germany.
So if you're in Munich, ifyou're German, or if you're in
Europe and you're close toGermany, if you're close to
Munich, in Munich, if you'reGerman, or if you're in Europe
and you're close to Germany, ifyou're close to Munich this
coming Friday yes, this Fridayof this week Nathan's show will
be opening and I've seen thework.
I've walked through the workwith him.
He and I have discussed thework with our friend, Eric Brees
(19:25):
um numerous times over the pastmonths as he's been working on
it, and it is wonderful,Absolutely incredibly wonderful.
I'm so excited.
I'm sure that Benjamin Eck isgoing to be going crazy for the
work because it looks absolutelyincredible.
So if you're in Munich,definitely go to the Benjamin
(19:47):
Eck Gallery and see the show.
Also, tell people about to.
He'll have posts on Instagram.
You'll see the work.
You'll see him showing it.
So many fun things for Nathanthat are coming ahead that just
I can't wait for you guys to see, as as we share those over the
next few weeks.
I have some fun things happeningthis year that I'm really
(20:08):
excited about.
I mean, they happened right atthe beginning of the year after
I made my list of things that Iwant to go after.
This year.
I made a list right.
I've been looking at myfinances from last year.
I've been looking at smallmicro goals and little things to
try and accomplish and go after.
I've been looking at bigpicture goals, career pushing
goals and a few things havehappened without that I had on
(20:30):
my list that I haven't eventried.
They just kind of were there.
I'll be on a really dearfriend's podcast we're recording
this Friday called the AlchemyLab.
It's brand new.
I think I'm going to be thefirst episode, so I'm really
excited.
My dear friend Alison Adams.
I've known her for a long, longtime and she is a beautiful,
(20:52):
absolutely incredible, wonderfulsoul and a fantastic artist.
She has an incredible idea forthis new podcast and she's been
painting these alchemy cards todo like a set of cards with.
And they are.
They're incredible, they're socool.
So we will definitely push thatout as that comes.
Set some goals.
(21:12):
What do you want to do thisyear?
What do you want to accomplish?
What are you looking forward to?
What was rough last year thatyou can change this upcoming
year?
Is there anything that you cando to build your network?
That's so important?
Connect deeper with otherartists.
Spend more time with otherartists Talking about your work,
Talking about your work,talking about your goals and
(21:33):
where you want to go.
You need that accountability.
Trust me, you better have thataccountability, because it's too
too hard to do by yourself.
It's too hard.
Do some WhatsApp video, mess uhtalks with other artists, get
to know people.
Do some Instagram lives withother artists and just talk
about what you're making andwhat you're doing and what your
(21:54):
goals are and invite otherartists to take part.
Set up a show in your apartment, in your garage, in a local
cafe, with other artists,friends of yours, just so that
you can connect and add a lineon that resume.
Right, Do what you need to doto push the career further, Even
if you're doing your own things.
I know we encourage that a lotDo your own stuff sometimes, but
(22:19):
I just want to encourage youall.
This year, Nathan and I will beback together shortly after his
Munich trip and he, like I said,he's doing an episode there
with the curator who, from Milan, Italy, who's curating his
exhibition there.
So we're excited to share that.
We've got some really funthings coming up this year.
But go network, meet somepeople go see some shows.
(22:41):
Tomorrow I head to Houston.
I'll be down in Houstondropping work off to one of my
dealers, Mont art house downtownHouston, who I adore.
I love them, Just such abeautiful group of women and
dropping off new work for themand bringing old work back.
But I'm also having an art date, something that Julia Cameron,
(23:02):
from the Artist's Way, really,really pushes hard.
Take yourself on a date,artists.
Take yourself out, as theywould say in Parks and Rec.
Donna and Tom, treat yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh, what you want to Donna.
Teller T-Mobile Three words foryou.
Treat yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Treat yourself 2011.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Once a year, donna and I spend a day treating
ourselves.
What do we treat ourselves to?
Clothes, treat yourself.
Fragrances, treat yourself.
Massages, treat yourself.
Mimosances, treat yourself.
Massages, treat yourself.
Mimosas, treat yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Fine leather goods, treat yourself.
It's the best day of the year.
The best day of the year.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Take yourself out, treat yourself to an art date,
whatever that may be.
I'll be down there.
I'm a member of the Museum ofFine Arts Houston, so I'll be
going to the MFAH and spending anumber of hours there looking
at work contemporary and workfrom art history, and then I'll
probably walk over to CAMHouston and see the work that
(24:02):
they have.
And then I'll walk over to theTwombly across the street and
spend a considerable amount oftime with Cy Twombly and his
work, thinking and writing anddreaming, and then I will walk
(24:23):
about a block and a half down tothe Rothko Chapel to just sit
and spend some time in solitudearound the beautiful Rothko
pieces, and then I'll head backthe next day, so I'll be staying
the night.
I've already been researchingsome of the top new restaurants
on Eater and top chefs inHouston so I can treat myself to
a really good, fun dinner.
(24:44):
But take the time to do that.
Sometimes I don't know whatthat looks like for you.
Is it a walk on the beach witha bottle of wine?
Is it going to a movie byyourself?
I love going to movies bymyself because I can see the
films I want to see.
They're not a shared film.
I laugh about that all the time.
My wife and I have differenttastes and things.
There's a lot of things we likethat are the same, but when it
(25:05):
comes to film, very different.
So I want to go see my films.
So I'll take myself on a filmdate sometimes and just go see a
movie by myself.
We need that time.
We need downtime from artsometimes too right To separate
ourselves and just have thattime doing something we enjoy.
Maybe that's going and hittingsome golf balls I don't know
what it is for you, but find it.
(25:26):
Go, do it.
Get outside, look at the sky.
Start planning for this year.
If you haven't been doing it, Ihighly encourage you to start
doing it now.
Set some small goals for thisyear.
They don't have to be 20.
It could be a few.
A few small goals Apply to fiveresidencies.
(25:46):
Apply to two in the US, threeinternational, three in the US,
two international.
Apply for an artist grant.
Apply to five group shows.
Small micro goals.
Set some macro goals to somebig achievements.
Maybe it's you've wanted to golarge scale.
(26:08):
Try a six foot or eight footpainting.
Maybe you wanted to sculpt.
Buy some clay.
Do five clay sculptures.
Set some goals that you can goafter, and if you don't finish
them, well, then next year, okay, I need to make sure to do that
, but if you set some small ones, you can at least try right,
(26:28):
and that's what we really wantto influence you all to really
really try.
We know how bad you want it,nathan, and I want it just as
bad for us.
We know how bad you all wantthis.
That's why you're listening,that's why you're in your
studios.
That's why we get incrediblecomments from you about things
you're doing.
We love to hear what you'redoing, so please share with us
(26:49):
the things you're doing.
Please share the podcast withyour friends you're doing, so
please share with us the thingsyou're doing.
Please share the podcast withyour friends.
It's growing rapidly, but wewould love more artists and more
people.
And, don't forget, we lovehearing your questions, so we
will definitely throw yourquestions in and sprinkle them
into episodes throughout theyear, so we would love to hear
what you have to say.
Have a blessed rest of the week.
(27:10):
I hope that 2025 is magical foryou and there's just incredible
things, man, our prayers areout there for all of our friends
in California who arestruggling with the fires.
I have had close friends losehomes.
I've had a lot of friendsevacuate.
The fires are not under controlyet, as the Santa Ana winds
(27:31):
that I grew up with are insanewhen they happen and when you
have a natural disaster it'snear impossible to control a
fire.
I grew up around forest fires inNorthern California and the
Sierra Nevadas um my whole lifeand I even worked some summers
doing um forest clearing, umprepping for the possibility of
fires and clearing out trees andbrush and creating space so
(27:54):
that things don't spread far.
So I've had a lot of friends whoare hotshot firefighters guys
that go drop into the middle offorest fires to clear and take
care of things as everybody elsecomes in, and so I am very
familiar with forest fires andjust want to thank all of those
firefighters that are bustingtheir asses to help save homes.
(28:17):
And I know there are a lot oforganizations out there that are
helping artists who have loststudios and homes and things.
So please do your due diligence.
If you're going to donateartwork or donate money or help,
please do your due diligence tofind legitimate organizations
to give to, becauseunfortunately there are a lot of
(28:39):
fraudulent ones takingadvantage of people with amazing
hearts who are giving at thistime as well.
So, um with that, uh, this isTy being solo signing off.
Love you all.
We will see you soon.
Go make some art, bye.
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