May 29, 2025 • 42 mins
The journey from discarded material to transcendent art forms the foundation of our conversation about Leonardo Drew, one of contemporary art's most physically committed and philosophically profound creators. Drew's remarkable journey began in the most unlikely of places—playing in a dump as a child in Tallahassee, Florida—a formative experience that would later inform his artistic sensibility and material relationship.
What strikes you immediately about Drew is the joyful contradiction between his ebullient personality and the weighted gravity of his installations. His work appears weathered, aged, and discovered rather than created, yet as we learn, this is a carefully orchestrated illusion. "I don't work with found objects," Drew reveals. "Most of my material I actually create in the studio... I become the weather." This transformation process, where new materials are methodically distressed until they appear to carry centuries of history, speaks to Drew's profound understanding of time, memory, and physical transformation.
Perhaps most compelling is Drew's pivotal turning point at age fifteen, when a black-and-white reproduction of a Jackson Pollock painting changed everything. Despite being courted by Marvel and DC Comics for his extraordinary illustrative talents, Drew abandoned this promising commercial path to pursue fine art—a decision requiring remarkable courage. "I decided it was time for me to stop using what I did well," he explains, essentially tying his hands to discover what existed beyond his comfort zone. This willingness to abandon mastery in pursuit of deeper questions characterizes his entire approach.
Drew's extraordinary work ethic—rotating between seven projects simultaneously like "crying babies" needing attention—and his seven-year disappearance into the studio to develop his voice demonstrate a commitment few artists match. His perspective on creative struggle as "the most beautiful part of the journey" reminds us that art-making thrives on questions rather than answers. Experience Drew's transformative installations in person to understand why his work commands such reverence among artists and audiences alike.
Sources:
Leonardo Drew in "Investigation" - Season 7 - "Art in the Twenty-First Century" | Art21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymMGgOCoK8k&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=5
An Interview with Leonardo Drew | Wadsworth Antheneum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-75fm_UzhYg&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=4
Woodcuts: Leonardo Drew | useum of Arts and Design (MAD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3S2nvDcvU&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=3
Artist Talk: Leonardo Drew | Amon Carter Museum of American Art Fort Worth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtsqaHfEYxc&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR
Carrie Scott, SEEN Podcast | Leonardo Drew
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1a54U1cidMrWratJewuyFy?si=27cd5abd710f4439
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tanya Cushman Reviewer.
Reviewer.
Tanya Cushman Reviewer.
It's just coming.
That's why I said if I get upin the morning, I know I have to
work.
I don't necessarily have to sayI'm going to make work about
this or that.
It's just going to happen, it'sjust going to work.
(00:22):
All that other stuff is justgoing to come into play.
I have a call on it.
It's just going to happen.
It's like it's just going towork.
It's all that other stuff isgoing to come into play.
You don't have to call on it,it's just there.
It's life.
You know I wake up in themorning, I know exactly what I'm
going to do.
I don't go through slumps.
I mean, the work is sort oflike you know it's
self-perpetuating, so it liveson itself.
So it's like I get up.
You know, what I investigatedyesterday has led to some new
(00:43):
realization and I'm onto that.
It's not like you know I haveall these answers and it's like
the work is like without astruggle.
I mean, actually struggle is,you know, like the fact that you
don't have the answers isactually the most beautiful part
of the journey.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
That was meaty.
There was a lot of really goodfood in there, that's a full
meal with leftovers tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, sir, lots of leftovers tomorrow, I think.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've heard that before somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely the kind that you're excited to reheat
and bring to work tomorrow.
The kind that actually someleftovers, the flavors, get to
know each other overnight.
It's better the next day.
It's that.
Yeah, this tastes a whole lotbetter today than it did
yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's that type of meal.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Absolutely so.
Welcome to Talking Food withNathan and Ty, where we talk
about leftovers primarily.
Let's start that Today we'regoing to talk about one of both
of our absolute art heroes,leonardo Drew.
Cannot wait to get into this.
But let's do a quick littleupdate, since it's been a minute
, since we've recorded a newepisode, which, by the way,
(01:53):
we'll go to you first, ty.
But, by the way, I just want tosay thanks to everybody for
hanging with us.
We try to stay on our regularevery other week schedule, but
we are both working artists andthe art always comes first.
Know if we miss a week here andthere.
Thanks for hanging with us anduh and coming on back.
But, ty, what have you been upto?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I know you just got back from a really exciting trip
yeah, I just got back from themarfa invitational in marfa,
texas.
I was there for 11 days I think, so it was a just an incredible
, not just event but connectionof artists and art lovers and
people in just a magical place.
(02:29):
Marfa, texas, is to me very,very magical and, man, I got to
connect with some of my closestfriends that you and I both know
Eric Breesh and Vino, two of myclosest friends we spent a lot
of time together hanging out andV's's new person, samuel
Levi-Jones, who's a brilliantartist out of Indianapolis.
(02:50):
So I got to spend a lot of timewith the three of them talking
art, talking life, getting deep.
We did the Chinati Foundationtour together, so we got to walk
through Donald Judd and DanFlavin and John Chamberlain's
museums together and that was,you know, when you're doing that
with other artists, it's justthe best, and whether our tour
(03:15):
guide loved that or not, she wassweet, but she had to really,
really know her stuff, with thefour of us constantly asking
questions or knowing answersthat maybe she didn't know and,
as artists, also speaking intothings too.
So it was, it was incredible andI got to meet so many artists
across the state of Texasbecause this exhibition was just
Texas artists.
I think we had 160 artists inthere and maybe five, 600 works
(03:38):
of art in the room, and so funto connect with artists that
I've followed maybe for a longtime and have never met in
person, or that have followed mefor a long time on Instagram,
haven't met in person, and thennew artists.
Just that was, for me, one ofthe things I love more than
anything about art and being atshows is getting to meet artists
.
So lots of conversations, lotsof new, fresh conversations, but
(04:00):
a lot of very moving momentsdiscussing work and things that
are going on in the art world.
So it was fabulous and just gotback two days ago and we had a
lot of time.
We talked a lot about ourcurrent.
This episode Leonardo drew aswell, because for Eric and I and
for Samuel it's a.
He's one of our favoriteartists too, so it's fun leading
(04:21):
up.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Absolutely.
I love it and you're just alittle life update.
You are getting close to movinginto the new studio Not quite
yet.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, I probably could have set up in there today
, but it would have been reallyechoey because it's completely
empty.
So I figured I'll stay in thegarage for another day and you
guys can have the treadmill andall my folded up stuff in the
background on video.
But yeah, I'll probably startmoving things in from the garage
into the studio when we're offthis recording.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, Well, I can't wait.
We've been trying to get intothis.
I was looking back at our uh,at our outline here, and we have
been working on this andlistening to tons of different
art talks.
Uh, he's a phenomenal listen.
I mean we're going to play abunch of quotes, so I don't
really need to say that, becausethat'll be evident if it's not
already, as we play a bunch moreof these.
But just the way that he talksabout work and just the absolute
(05:13):
joy that emanates from everyword that he says.
It's super, super fun.
But we would definitelyencourage you to go and check
out.
We'll cite our sources in theshow notes as well, but we've
got four or five different talksand sources that we're going to
be pulling from.
But, Todd, why don't you goahead and cue us up with a
little bit of a brief bio on MrDrew before we dive in?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, and I don't want to give too much away
because we're going to be divinginto some of his biography
throughout some of these quotestoo.
But an incredible artist inmany, many forms, with a pretty
rare story too, I would say,behind his art making and how he
got to where he is and where hestarted out and where he's
ended up today.
And he is between, today, sanAntonio, texas, and New York,
(06:00):
and so he's going back and forth.
I know he's doing a lot in SanAntonio, but he's in New York a
lot and he travels around theand forth.
I know he's doing a lot in SanAntonio, but he's in New York a
lot and he travels around theglobe.
We'll talk about that prettyregularly too.
But he was born in 1961 inTallahassee, florida, and he
grew up in a home near alandfill and then I don't know
when he moved to Connecticut,but at some point in there he
(06:21):
was born in Florida, moved toConnecticut and he's known for
large scale installations andmixed media works that explore a
lot of themes wrapped up withinit, and I'm actually not going
to talk about the themes becauseI don't think he would want me
to, so I'm not going to talkabout what people have guessed.
These themes are even what he'stalked about, because we'll get
(06:41):
into why.
I'm not going to do that foryou.
I want you to discover thosethings yourself when you look at
his work.
But his art does have somepersonal narrative and
environment and memories ofenvironments wrapped up within
it as well, and if you've everstood in front of one of his
works, which I've been blessedto see a few mind-blowing,
(07:09):
honestly, absolutelyshockinglyingly mind blowing to
me and he's somebody that Irefer to any artist that's been
in my mentorship program who's asculptor or an installation
artist he's usually right at thetop of that list.
When I send them research, I'mlike dive in to.
Leonardo drew immenselyAnything and everything you can
get your hands on, listen to it,read it, buy it, go see it,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I mean, when you see his pieces in person, it just
dominates the room that itoccupies, that they occupy, and
it's just, it's something whereI it almost makes whatever else
might be in that space reallyhard to appreciate, because it
is so, so overwhelmingly allconsuming.
It's, it's, it's really reallyquite something.
(07:50):
So if you've not had a chanceto see his work in person,
photos don't do it justice, asis the case with most, you know,
three-dimensional work.
But let's go ahead and throw inanother quote that kind of
dovetails off the one that weopened up with, just talking
about his insane work ethic.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yes, something like that 16, 16, 17, 18.
There used to be 20 hour daysbut I stopped that.
Like in the studio, whatusually happens is I'm rotating
seven things and they kind ofbalance one another and I find
that like they assist oneanother in completing themselves
(08:27):
.
So it's never just one thing.
I'll work on something and I'lltake it to near completion, and
if it's not working out, I'lltake it apart and I'll make
something else with it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
All right.
So there's a lot there to diveinto, but I want to.
I want to begin by again, kindof circling back to that opening
quote that we shared, justscrumming.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's why I Begin by again kind of circling back to
that opening quote that weshared Just coming.
That's why I said if I get upin the morning, I know I have to
work.
I don't necessarily have to sayI'm going to make work about
this or that.
You know, it's like it's justgoing to happen.
It's like it's just going towork.
It's just all that other stuffis going to come into play.
You don't have to call on.
(09:05):
I mean, work is sort of like,you know, it's self-perpetuating
and sort of lives on itself.
So it's like I get up, you know, what I investigated yesterday
has led to some new realizationand I'm onto that.
It's not like, you know, I haveall these answers and it's like
the work is like without astruggle.
I mean, actually struggle is,you know, like the fact that you
don't have the answers isactually the most um, the
(09:28):
beautiful most beautiful part ofthe journey, just his, his work
ethic.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You know when you watch the videos and, and, again
, definitely encourage y'all toto go.
And the art 21 is, uh isfantastic.
That's a great place to start.
But when you see his studio,his process, like he is working,
he is dressed for manual labor.
You know what I mean.
So boots back, brace gloves,you know.
(09:56):
You see uh all types ofdifferent.
You know construction tools, uhin his in, uh in his space, and
it's, it's absolutely justinspiring to see the way that he
clocks in and we've talkedabout this a lot in previous
episodes as well.
But just the work ethic for him.
I don't need to wonder what I'mgoing to do.
(10:16):
I know I'm going to go to workand the work continues to
perpetuate, more and more work.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, because of that he says in that first quote I
don't go through slumps, Right,you know what I mean.
He's just like I'm constantlyworking and so I'm always
discovering.
Because I'm constantly workingand he, you know, at the end of
that quote, he's investigatingyesterday has led to something
new and now he's onto that.
So now he's moving to the nextthing and I have all these
(10:45):
answers and the work is withoutstruggle.
He says struggle is the factyou don't have the answers.
That's the most beautiful partof the journey and we talk about
this all the time.
Right, it's like that's ifyou're constantly working,
you're constantly havingquestions, and every time you
kind of get to an answer, it'sproviding a new question and
that's kind of his search andhis process.
And I do think it's funny whenhe says where is it in the quote
(11:07):
?
In the studio he says where isit?
I'm rotating seven things andthey balance on one another, and
he has this philosophy of theseven crying babies.
I don't know if you came acrossthat.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I think that might have been in the Kerry Scott
podcast and he talks about howhe says that in almost every
interview I don't think we havePretty much every interview.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So it's like if one baby's crying and you quiet it,
there's still another six babiescrying, and then, once you go
to adjust the other baby, thenthat one starts crying.
And so it's this repeatedcircle of there's always
something to be moving.
And if you watch the videos andthings, there are times when
he'll tell the personinterviewing if you're here long
enough, you're going to startmoving things, Because while
(11:49):
we're in the studio, I'm seeingthis and that's got to move and
this needs to move.
And that just shows us how init he is.
He's so in it that even whenhe's in the interview, he's
going oh, I need to move thosethree things.
So as soon as we do a cut here,you're going to come help me
move these Right, you know.
And the absolute physicality,though, of his work, as you said
too, you know he's had handsurgeries on both hands.
(12:12):
He's about to have double kneesurgery.
He is somebody who isphysically and mentally and
emotionally so grounded in thework he's making that it is
breaking him down in ways too,because he's so in it he's not
stopping, he has to do it.
We'll hear about that later,but how do you relate to that?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, how much time do you have?
I mean one of the things aboutthat opening clip from I think
that was from the mad museum ofart and design.
That's about a five minute video.
It's fantastic.
One of the things that jumpedoff the screen to me when I was
watching that was it's a verybrief cut, but it's his punch
list for the day, right, yeah,and so a punch list is, I think,
(13:00):
that term.
I'm pretty sure that term comesfrom construction.
It definitely does, cause, frommy experience, you know,
working in the trades andworking, you know, under
underneath a proper, propertrades people and contractors
but a punch list is like thelast list of things that need to
be done before the project isfinished.
Right, so, as your projectgoing on at your place right now
(13:21):
, they've got a punch list andsometimes they think it's done,
and sometimes, in your case, thehomeowner would say, actually
there's a few more things weneed to add to that.
But I just love that.
I mean, that's a very you know,just such a work driven
approach to these are the thingsthat need to be done and what's
the next thing on the list.
And so I just got the biggestsmile on my face, because that's
(13:42):
how I relate to that.
Right, like every day, I've gotprobably I don't know four or
five different legal pads inaddition to my journals where
I'm writing about the work.
But I've got these legal padsand a lot of three by five note
cards all over the place ofdifferent punch lists for the
day, because that's what I speakfor for him, but that's what
keeps me, keeps me on track,knowing that, hey, when I'm
(14:03):
cause that's an interestingthing about those long 14, 16,
20 hour days Like I think it'dbe very difficult, very rare is
the artist who can work thatlong period.
But especially, I think it's thetype of work that he does
certainly lends itself to longerdays.
A hundred percent I can relateto this because so much of it is
(14:24):
just very task driven.
It's like I'm going to bedissecting this piece in his
case, weathering, which we'lltalk about in a little bit.
I'm going to be assembling allof these.
You know little pieces.
So before you know it, you knowthree, four or five hours have
gone by just doing very manual.
You know labor intensive work.
That's that's really what stuckout to me the most, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, and we're all different.
I mean, this is the thing, like, just because Leonardo drew,
does, that doesn't mean that youor myself or any other artists
listening is going, oh man, Idon't put in enough work,
nothing's going to happen for me, I can't put in six, right?
It's like it's all differentfor everybody and there's plenty
of artists, including myself.
I work a lot, but there aretimes where I go into the studio
(15:08):
and I work an hour.
Or I go into the studio and Ijust read a little bit.
I go into the studio one dayand I could work for six or
eight hours, I could work for 10or 15 hours.
Then there's periods of timewhere I'm working minimally but
I'm doing something, and so, andit's, you know.
But I also have a family, youknow as well.
So there's that balance to abalancing, you know, life
outside the studio with lifeinside the studio.
(15:29):
And for Leonardo, you know,it's just him, he's solo, so
he's really putting as much timeas he can to do those things.
And there's a quote that I loveby Van Gogh that says great
things are done by a series ofsmall things brought together.
Right, and in essence, that'severything you just said and
that's everything that Leonardojust said.
All these small things, thepunch list, the journals, the
(15:50):
notes, all that and that time,all of those little things, like
great things are done.
Great art is made in the end byall those things coming
together and having anintersection is made in the end
by all those things comingtogether and having an
intersection, thinking of allthose small things being brought
together to really createsomething great in the end.
Really, for Leonardo started ata young age, in his early years
, to growing up around a dumpand seeing so many different
(16:12):
little things all over as achild.
I think we have a really goodclip of him talking about that
we do.
Here it is.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And the dump was my playground.
So we I played out there, youknow, like all of us did.
I mean I had a different youknow.
Take on what the dump was.
I mean I was grabbing thingsthere and trying to make things.
Others were there, you know,like I said, playing around the
cesspool and falling into it.
You know.
So you know, yeah, into it.
You know.
So you know, yeah, you know mybeginnings in terms of how I
(16:42):
probably see even found objectsand what they mean to me and how
I'm trying to echo that in myworks had its beginnings there.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I love the fact that early memories because, you know
, memory plays such a big partin my work and everything that I
do.
But I love when I get to hearthose stories from my favorite
artists and how their memoriesimpact their work later on, you
know.
And so just seeing thosediscarded items and those, that
(17:13):
fascination with materials andrandom things right, that are
not art supplies, you know, it'ssomething, you something.
They're not art supplies,they're random things how that
really really did infect and getinside him to create this
visceral response later on toadapt his art making to reflect
(17:34):
some of those things.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
When I listened to him tell that story it really
triggered a visceral memory forme that I hadn't previously
connected to my practice today.
But when I was a kid I spentI've talked about this quite a,
I think, before, but wouldwander around in the woods and
just explore and journal, write,sketch, take photos, just just
(18:00):
be out in my own little world.
There's a bunch of city landbehind where I lived and it was
just my playground.
But there was a dump that wasadjacent to the city land and
sometimes I would wander throughthere and it was a playground.
It was absolutely.
I remember just being whatever.
I was seven.
A playground it was.
It was absolutely.
(18:20):
I remember just being whatever.
I was seven, eight, nine yearsold and I would drag a bunch of
just cool looking objects that Ithought were interesting back
to the house and my dad was veryforgiving but he said this is
your space to keep your pile ofthings and you have to.
You can't, it can't grow.
You have to decide if you'regoing to do something with it.
(18:41):
We can't just be, you know,collecting, collecting garbage
in the in in in the garage.
I remember once I found this,this just perfect piece of
really really soft aluminumpiping that I then pounded into,
like whatever, some kind of asamurai sword, right?
So then that or what I, what Ithought looked like a samurai
sword, and I would, you know,take that back into the woods
(19:03):
with me for protection,obviously.
But yeah, no, it's just, it's,it's super interesting.
And so I think about thosemoments of just like that oh wow
, look at this, what could I do?
What could this be?
What could I do with this?
You know and I don't know, Ijust had never really really
occurred to me how much thatrelates to all of the dumpster
(19:24):
diving and the walks that I takewith Leo, my dog, just finding,
finding things.
Now, but that's what I'mchasing, you know is that that
moment that I felt as a child ofjust like this is incredible.
Look at this, look at this oneof a kind gem that was just
laying out here, discarded,disposed of.
No one cares about it, but Iwill.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I think that's a really good segue into something
here with Leonardo, becausethere was something that he saw
at this point as a young boythat he saw something that
literally just changedeverything for him, like slapped
him in the face in such a waythat he just changed everything
for him, like slapped him in theface in such a way that he just
had to switch.
He had to, like changedirections.
(20:06):
And this is young, you know.
This is what.
16?
Was it?
Or was it like 14?
It might've been around 14 or15 years old, I can't remember
exactly the age, but it's inthat young teenage years, and he
was a brilliant illustrator andcomic book designer, like
himself drawing comic books andillustrator like incredible, to
(20:31):
the point where at 13 or 14years old he got famous for it.
He did a Captain America drawingthat ended up in a show that
got the attention of Marvel, dc,heavy Metal Magazine and I know
he loves to tell the story ofMarvel and DC were battling out
to sign him, to bring him on,and at the time it was when the
(20:51):
first Christopher Reeve Supermanfilm came out and Marvel wasn't
doing films or anything, theywere just page comic books and
DC was.
Well, we're making movies, soyou should definitely come with
us.
You know what I mean.
And that was one of thosethings he was really considering
, because that was his dream atthat point in time.
I want to be a comic bookartist, I want to draw, and
there's some success when he, asa child, was struggling in the
(21:13):
projects and it's like all of asudden there just could be this
success.
And then I'll let Drew talkabout what happened to him at
this point in his life.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I was drawing and using colored inks and things
like that.
People in the neighborhood theprojects where I grew up in
Bridgeport, connecticut theywere telling me about this place
called ABCD Cultural ArtsCenter.
They said that, well, you haveto go there because they have
paints and canvases.
And I said, wow, this is allthe stuff for free.
Well, you have to go therebecause they have paints and
canvases.
And I said, wow, this is allfor free.
So once I made my way over tothem, I ended up with these
(21:46):
mentors, a fantastic group ofartists who were just there
helping kids, and I was one ofthem.
My goodness, just copyingcartoons here, just copied
directly from television, likewhatever I was watching.
(22:07):
I had the facility to be ableto do that at a young age, but
at the same time it wasn'toriginal thought, real fun.
This is actually from thenewspaper article when I from my
first exhibition at age 13.
And we used it as a flyer.
Of course, these are much later.
(22:35):
I was approached by DC Comicsand Heavy Metal Magazine and
Marvel Comics to do work forthem.
When I saw this black and whitereproduction of Jackson
Pollock's work when I was in thelibrary in high school, that
was it, and that was my firsttake on what fine art was
Imagine Jackson Pollock in blackand white.
But it still, you know,elicited such a visceral
(22:57):
response that when seeing it, Iwas kind of like, wow, this is
amazing.
And from that point on I beganto question, you know, what I
was doing, up against what I hadseen and what I felt.
More actually, what I had feltProbably would have been like 15
.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Think about that, nathan.
Think about that Nathan Like tome.
You know somebody who reallykind of grew up in and around
poverty, in and aroundstruggling families and he has
this ability that is reallyuncomparable.
Where he's from Right, and thenhe has an opportunity and then
(23:36):
he comes across as black andwhite of Paul Like and he goes.
I mean, he has so manydifferent responses and
interviews to that.
I was shocked, I was blown away.
I couldn't believe it.
I was marveled by it.
It just wooed me.
But the whole thing was like hedidn't realize that something
else existed outside of what hewas doing and he already had the
full artist spiritual mindsetand soul at that age where it
(24:00):
went.
Had the full artist spiritualmindset and soul at that age
where it went.
Oh, no, no, there's somethingelse for me to chase here.
Right, that seems much bigger.
Yeah, unending, that doesn'thave an end.
Everything I'm doing right nowhas an end.
Yeah, I draw the figure, I dothis, I do the story, whatever.
And it just kind of stops tohim.
He said this feels like there'ssomething unending.
What am I going to do?
(24:20):
And then he decided to go tocollege, for it went to Parsons
for two years and I think hesaid in an interview it just was
boring him, it wasn't givinghim the opportunity to be
completely free in the way hewanted to go.
So he transferred to CooperUnion and had a pretty
incredible set of mentors atCooper Union, including one of
(24:40):
our other favorite artists, jackWitten, who was.
If you look at Leonardo's earlywork, you can see the mirror
reflection in a lot of thoseearly pieces too, before he went
sculptural and installation.
Even the 2D and flat wallpieces are really, in my eyes, a
swan song to Witten in a way aswell.
Of is a swan song to Witten ina way as well.
But just to me, man, itcompletely blew me away that
(25:06):
story of this kid overcoming ina way that was like quick
success.
Don't want it Right At 15 yearsold.
I want the hard work to discover.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, having that level of resolve, because he was
touched at such a soul leveland just knowing it didn't even
sound like it was that difficultof a decision, he just knew.
Nope, he knew I'm supposed togo this way, not that way it's
incredible, it's absolutelyincredible when he said I saw
that picture and I knew rightthen.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Right, it was this instant thing.
Saw that picture and I knewright then.
It's like it was this instantthing and it's almost like the
Helen Frankenthaler story ofwalking into the Betty Parsons
gallery and seeing the Pollockshow for the first time, and
then her running back to herstudio and putting canvas on the
ground and doing her thing andshe says all I needed was
permission.
I just hadn't gotten it yet.
That's right To me, that pieceand I have this conversational
(26:00):
thing Whether you like Pollockor not, whether you think his
work's terrible or you love hiswork, you're inspired by it or
not, he has given an enormousamount of artists in history
permission to go, experiment anddo things that didn't seem like
they were supposed to be doing.
It just gave him the ability togo.
I can do whatever I want.
(26:20):
Let's go, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
There's another quote I want to share here where he
speaks to how he sort of gotabout, got to the point of
making that decision.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
My ability to be able to draw and paint well actually
was getting in a way of merealizing something larger.
It's hard to get past somethingso beautifully done and then,
at the same time, ask thequestion what's underneath that?
I decided it was time for me tostop using what I did well.
So what I did was, almostliterally, tied my hands.
(26:54):
I said okay, you can no longerpaint or draw and you're going
to have to find another way tocreate.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Again, go watch these videos, because you see some of
these illustrations that he wasdoing, you know, as a, as a
high schooler, and theseillustrations are, I mean it's
you can absolutely see why hewas getting the attention that
he was from, from DC, fromMarvel, why he had options to to
stay on, to stay on that path.
You know, I think this is aninteresting question, I think
(27:20):
one that would be worthdiscussing for us, but I think
it's a he brings up a criticalquestion that would be valuable
for all of us to ask ourselves,which is am I too comfortable?
Is what I'm doing now too easy?
Right, yeah, and we may or maynot have the strength of
(27:41):
character to completely, in hiswords, tie our hands behind our
back and completely set asidesomething that is working.
But wow, what's on the otherside of that?
Am I getting too comfortable?
Have I done what I needed to dohere?
And what else is on the otherside of what might be?
(28:02):
And also realizing thatobviously there are a lot of
ways to get from one place toanother, but there's a lot of
value in completely settingaside that thing or the things
that are making us comfortable,that are keeping us comfortable
and completely opening up acomplete new vein of work.
(28:24):
That wouldn't have beenpossible had we remained
tethered to the thing that wasworking, that was keeping us
comfortable.
What do you think about?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What's what's?
I know there's been times inyour, in your career, because
you've, you've been, you've beenat this a while.
You've you've made a number ofdifferent you know decisions,
conscious or or maybe at asubconscious level, to make
different shifts.
So how do you think about thatquestion and that decision?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, and just to remind everybody, if you haven't
listened to our episode fromMarch 27th the Greater the
Artist, the Greater the Doubt.
We kind of go into some ofthese ideas about Nathan and
myself in our studio practicepretty intensely and thickly.
So just a reminder foreverybody, that's the March 27th
episode.
This spoke to me so much, itwas a confidence builder for me
(29:14):
really studying and diving intoLeonardo for this episode,
because I really try to be whathe is in that way and he's
really taken, you know thatfirst jump.
He's taking his existingfacilities right Of what he
knows how to do and is extremelygood at drawing and he
(29:35):
completely went opposite.
You know what I mean.
So he left the control, he leftthe, the plan, he left.
I mean all that's planning,it's control, it's whatever.
He completely like you see,tied his hands and went totally
different, completely different.
And that's something every timeI find I'm really really truly
(29:56):
controlling something.
I'm switching it up.
I'm switching it up.
I feel like, okay, I'm askingquestions with everything I'm
trying here and the second Istart to resolve those.
I want a whole lot morequestions.
I don't want just one morequestion, I want a hundred more
questions to go explore, becauseI know what that inroad is
going to be.
I know what's going to happenIf you gosh.
(30:18):
What an example.
Look at Leonardo's first works,look at his first works and then
look at today.
Like you see this gradual,gradual, gradual, slow ramp to
things, just exploding in ways.
And I think too, I mean what.
It took him seven years to getthere.
I think we talk about that in aminute.
But he had this moment of justdisappearing into the studio to
(30:41):
work things out for a very longperiod of time before pushing
work out there.
Studio to work things out for avery long period of time before
pushing work out there.
Right, like, who has thatpersistent patience to do that?
I mean, I've done it in sixmonths For seven years.
I've done it in six monthsSomething that was giving him
recognition shows and wasabsolutely working.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
It's tremendous.
I mean, you talk aboutquestions.
Back to that first quote thatwe shared.
The struggle is the fact thatyou don't have the answers is
actually the most beautiful partof the journey Absolutely
that's the beautiful part.
You talk about asking more andmore questions and most of which
we won't have the answers towhen they're asked.
(31:24):
We may never find the answersdefinitively, but it's the
journey that really excites us,that leads us to the next place.
It's a beautiful, beautifulthing.
There's another quote I want toshare Timeless.
You had something else on that.
Yep, All right.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
There is no escaping your past With certainty,
absolute certainty.
I can look back on some of theconfigurations that I've created
and I can see those projects.
I can see the landfills.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
There's no escaping your past.
I don't know about you, butwhen I heard him say that, it
brought me back to Louise, andhow much of her past is baked
into all of know, all of herwork, all of the memories, all
the experiences that she had.
I think it was Fellini thatsaid all art is autobiographical
(32:14):
.
Yeah, so if we agree thatthat's true, I do, I think you
do as well.
Yeah, absolutely, it doesn'thave to be.
I mean autobiographical canmean anything you know it
doesn't have to be.
I mean autobiographical canmean anything you know.
It doesn't have to be anobjective narrative sense.
It can be, of course, but itdoesn't have to be right.
(32:35):
It's going to be just bakedinto the DNA of everything that
you make, because it's comingfrom you and it's flowing
through you.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot
lately, even before we startedlistening to this, because I was
reading a book about one of myfavorite authors, madeline
L'Engle, and she was talkingabout when she was writing
another book and she was sayinghow each time she's writing
about a character that may be 14years old or 15 years old so
let's say, she's writing about acharacter who's a 14 year old
(33:06):
girl and she says I have to goback to when I'm 14 and think
about who I was, what I was,what I did at that point to
write about that.
And she said so many writershave trouble doing that.
And then she says this quoteI'm still every age I've ever
been, and that's a very simplething.
But we forget that often and Ithink what Leonardo is saying
(33:31):
and what you and I believe is,even then, when those memories
and those ideas are coming back,we're able to really put
ourselves back into that momentwhen we're making and be that
right.
It's you working on a piecethat you discovered in the woods
and then remembering when youand your dad were walking
through the woods and you foundthis piece right and you wanted
to go put it in your pile rightand then your dad well, you need
(33:51):
to take some stuff out of there.
Then if you're going to putthese pieces in, we need to, you
know.
So it's like, but that is, it'sbaked in, it's 100% baked in.
I just love that quote.
Like I'm still every age, I'veever been age, I've ever been so
when I'm telling stories ofmoments in my life, it's just,
yeah, I've got tears likewelling up because it's just,
it's a very simple thing, butit's so powerful yes, and
(34:13):
especially for an artist, whenthose things are baked in and
you're sharing stories andyou're thinking of moments,
whether it's healing trauma,addiction, recovery, all these
things you're still that personand I think that's what Louise
was the best at for me in artwhen she made some of those
works she was creating as the15-year-old Louise who was just
(34:34):
dying inside for her father torespect her Right.
And when you walk into one ofthose rooms, you are right in
there.
Whether you know what it'ssaying or not, it has the power
to touch you in a way that yougo.
I think I need to really goresearch this piece because it
just did something to me.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
That is so powerful that I need to run and check
this out.
I think I shared this story ina previous episode, but I'm
going to share it again, justsince we're talking about Louise
.
But I was at the Art Instituteof Chicago with my mom, whatever
five months ago.
Yeah, you sent me that picture.
Yeah, walked into a room fullof full I think there were eight
or nine Louise pieces in theroom and my mom had no context.
We uh we had some drive time asa road trip to go see some
(35:17):
family and so I uh made herlisten to our episode as we were
killing some drive time afterthat.
But she walked in the roomwithout you know any, but so
that was really cool to watch,to see her experience, that,
that, the depth of her work,without, without any context,
and just to before I went fullart nerd and you know, told her
everything that, uh, you knowthat I knew and and and and for
(35:40):
context purposes.
But before I did that, I askedher like, how does this sit with
you?
How does this make you?
And it was just, it was justtremendous.
You know we talk about I'm stillevery age I've ever been.
We were out to dinner lastnight.
Our daughter, uh, had a choirconcert, and so we're out to
dinner afterwards with my wifeand our two girls and my mom,
and I said something ridiculous,as I uh often, as I often do,
(36:02):
and our youngest was like howold are you?
And I said, well, sweetie, I'm45 and I'm also 15.
And so, which is absolutelytrue, and so I, you know, but I
think about you know, when youtalk about you know, louise,
it's being able to tap into that, the five-year-old, the
(36:23):
10-year-old, the 20, right Withthrough the lens of wisdom and
lived experience that we'veacquired along the way.
That's different, that'sdifferent than how we would have
been able to even, you know,articulate or communicate our
experience at those younger ages.
But it's, it's, it's beautiful,it's just beautiful.
(36:45):
Love it.
There, it is, love it, yeah,you got to double down.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
You can't love it, love it, listen, that's the tie.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
That is the tie Love it, love it, love it.
But it never sounds like you do.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
But I do.
I mean, I catch myself, nathan,now saying that to people on
the phone and I just think ofyou making fun of me for going.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh, you're not excited about what I said.
You've got beautiful energy,but when you love it, love it.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
When you say that, to me it's like let's let's time
to move on.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Let's move on.
I'm not actually interested inwhat we're talking about right
now, let's play another clip.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
One of the issues that has consistently come up
when people write about the artis that they talk about found
objects.
Actually, I don't work withfound objects.
Most of my material I actuallycreate it in the studio.
So I actually go out and I buymaterial, brand new stuff.
I actually become the weather.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So, ty, I don't know about you I saw one of Drew's
pieces before I knew anythingabout him it was quite a while
ago and I remember viewing thework being blown away by it and
then, when I later learned thateverything was self-manufactured
(38:02):
, was created by him and and byby the weather, I couldn't
believe it.
I mean, it was, it was it'smind blowing to think, uh,
everything, almost everythingthat he uses, um, he purchases,
and it's, you know, raw, basicform, and does everything to
those materials to make it lookthe way that it does.
(38:24):
It's, uh, it's pretty wild, Imean.
So, for those of you that maynot be familiar with his work,
definitely go and look at hisworks through that lens of he
touched all that a lot.
You know, through so manydifferent processes and things
that he learned over time totransform those materials from
what they once were into whatthey are now, those materials
(38:44):
from what they once were intowhat they are now.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Is that right?
Yeah, wowed me.
Yeah, I didn't, I had no idea,I had no clue, and I guess I
would consider myself a miniDrew Storian or Drew Wyatt now,
because I just I love the guy somuch and I think it's not just
his work but it's hispersonality and joy that just
exudes anytime I watch him, I'mjust even more in love with him.
(39:06):
But joy that just exudesanytime I watch him.
I'm just even more in love withhim.
But so, being a Drew story andit's like it makes sense, yeah,
it makes absolute sense.
It would not make sense ifeverything was just a found
object and already weathered andput together.
No, he is taking, you know,somebody who is using found
objects and doing ready-madesand things, and he's completely
creating every bit of wood orpiece of poor, all these things
(39:32):
into art pieces.
Yeah, right, so he is themedium.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So there's a there's a more in-depth quote on the
weathering process that we'regoing to share in just a second
here, but you brought upsomething really important that
I wanted to discuss today.
But it's the, the absolute joythat exudes from.
I mean, you can?
This is a happy human being,it's marvelous.
It's marvelous because he just,he, it just he's so fun to
listen to.
He's such a great communicator,he's just joyful.
(40:00):
And I think it was definitely um, the uh, the Carrie Scott
interview on her podcast Scene,which is fantastic.
That's on all the podcastplaces.
Definitely go listen to that.
That's of the whatever eightdifferent long-form interviews
that I listened to inpreparation for this.
That's one of my favorites, forsure.
(40:21):
But she says this and sheidentifies it so perfectly, for
sure, but she says this and sheidentifies it so perfectly.
She said you know, there's sucha, there's such a and I'm
paraphrasing here but there'ssuch a difference between your
personality, which is so lightand joyful, and the heaviness of
your work.
And and I do not recall hisresponse exactly, but it was a
(40:43):
form of like, yeah, like, thisis me, this is, this is the work
, but it was such an interestingthing to think about.
I had an interesting experiencein um, in Munich.
Uh, after the, after theopening, after the opening, the,
the uh, benjamin, at thegallery.
He said one thing I heard a lotfrom a lot of uh, you know
people who were there was theydidn't the people that talked to
(41:05):
you or heard you talk, theydidn't expect you to be this way
after seeing your work.
And I said what do you mean, uh?
And he said you, you, just youdon't seem like somebody who
would make work like this.
I said I think that's uh, Ithink that's a compliment, I
don't whatever.
Uh, but it was.
It was interesting to hear andI was like huh, that's that's
(41:30):
interesting.
It was actually so.
When I heard this, when I heardthat as part of the interview,
it was, it was.
It was encouraging that, uh, um, any type of work can come from
any type of person.
Back to our earlier quote ofyou can't escape your past and
what's what's in you is going tocome out through your work.
But it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to be any certain
way that is or is notconsistent with how your work
(41:51):
appears, some of my favoritework.
Again, it's way more about theart than the artist, but I love
being surprised when there is agap of what you think somebody
who makes this type of work andhow they occur, how they present
, how they communicate.
It's a really interesting thing.
(42:12):
Absolutely, let's hear moreabout his process.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Make sure to tune in to episode two of Leonardo Drew
to hear more about his processComing soon.
Stay tuned.
Tanya Cushman Reviewer.
Reviewer.
Tanya Cushman Reviewer.
It's just coming.
That's why I said if I get upin the morning, I know I have to
work.
I don't necessarily have to sayI'm going to make work about
this or that.
It's just going to happen, it'sjust going to work.
(00:22):
All that other stuff is justgoing to come into play.
I have a call on it.
It's just going to happen.
It's like it's just going towork.
It's all that other stuff isgoing to come into play.
You don't have to call on it,it's just there.
It's life.
You know I wake up in themorning, I know exactly what I'm
going to do.
I don't go through slumps.
I mean, the work is sort oflike you know it's
self-perpetuating, so it liveson itself.
So it's like I get up.
You know, what I investigatedyesterday has led to some new
(00:43):
realization and I'm onto that.
It's not like you know I haveall these answers and it's like
the work is like without astruggle.
I mean, actually struggle is,you know, like the fact that you
don't have the answers isactually the most beautiful part
of the journey.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
That was meaty.
There was a lot of really goodfood in there, that's a full
meal with leftovers tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, sir, lots of leftovers tomorrow, I think.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've heard that before somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely the kind that you're excited to reheat
and bring to work tomorrow.
The kind that actually someleftovers, the flavors, get to
know each other overnight.
It's better the next day.
It's that.
Yeah, this tastes a whole lotbetter today than it did
yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's that type of meal.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Absolutely so.
Welcome to Talking Food withNathan and Ty, where we talk
about leftovers primarily.
Let's start that Today we'regoing to talk about one of both
of our absolute art heroes,leonardo Drew.
Cannot wait to get into this.
But let's do a quick littleupdate, since it's been a minute
, since we've recorded a newepisode, which, by the way,
(01:53):
we'll go to you first, ty.
But, by the way, I just want tosay thanks to everybody for
hanging with us.
We try to stay on our regularevery other week schedule, but
we are both working artists andthe art always comes first.
Know if we miss a week here andthere.
Thanks for hanging with us anduh and coming on back.
But, ty, what have you been upto?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I know you just got back from a really exciting trip
yeah, I just got back from themarfa invitational in marfa,
texas.
I was there for 11 days I think, so it was a just an incredible
, not just event but connectionof artists and art lovers and
people in just a magical place.
(02:29):
Marfa, texas, is to me very,very magical and, man, I got to
connect with some of my closestfriends that you and I both know
Eric Breesh and Vino, two of myclosest friends we spent a lot
of time together hanging out andV's's new person, samuel
Levi-Jones, who's a brilliantartist out of Indianapolis.
(02:50):
So I got to spend a lot of timewith the three of them talking
art, talking life, getting deep.
We did the Chinati Foundationtour together, so we got to walk
through Donald Judd and DanFlavin and John Chamberlain's
museums together and that was,you know, when you're doing that
with other artists, it's justthe best, and whether our tour
(03:15):
guide loved that or not, she wassweet, but she had to really,
really know her stuff, with thefour of us constantly asking
questions or knowing answersthat maybe she didn't know and,
as artists, also speaking intothings too.
So it was, it was incredible andI got to meet so many artists
across the state of Texasbecause this exhibition was just
Texas artists.
I think we had 160 artists inthere and maybe five, 600 works
(03:38):
of art in the room, and so funto connect with artists that
I've followed maybe for a longtime and have never met in
person, or that have followed mefor a long time on Instagram,
haven't met in person, and thennew artists.
Just that was, for me, one ofthe things I love more than
anything about art and being atshows is getting to meet artists
.
So lots of conversations, lotsof new, fresh conversations, but
(04:00):
a lot of very moving momentsdiscussing work and things that
are going on in the art world.
So it was fabulous and just gotback two days ago and we had a
lot of time.
We talked a lot about ourcurrent.
This episode Leonardo drew aswell, because for Eric and I and
for Samuel it's a.
He's one of our favoriteartists too, so it's fun leading
(04:21):
up.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Absolutely.
I love it and you're just alittle life update.
You are getting close to movinginto the new studio Not quite
yet.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, I probably could have set up in there today
, but it would have been reallyechoey because it's completely
empty.
So I figured I'll stay in thegarage for another day and you
guys can have the treadmill andall my folded up stuff in the
background on video.
But yeah, I'll probably startmoving things in from the garage
into the studio when we're offthis recording.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, Well, I can't wait.
We've been trying to get intothis.
I was looking back at our uh,at our outline here, and we have
been working on this andlistening to tons of different
art talks.
Uh, he's a phenomenal listen.
I mean we're going to play abunch of quotes, so I don't
really need to say that, becausethat'll be evident if it's not
already, as we play a bunch moreof these.
But just the way that he talksabout work and just the absolute
(05:13):
joy that emanates from everyword that he says.
It's super, super fun.
But we would definitelyencourage you to go and check
out.
We'll cite our sources in theshow notes as well, but we've
got four or five different talksand sources that we're going to
be pulling from.
But, Todd, why don't you goahead and cue us up with a
little bit of a brief bio on MrDrew before we dive in?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, and I don't want to give too much away
because we're going to be divinginto some of his biography
throughout some of these quotestoo.
But an incredible artist inmany, many forms, with a pretty
rare story too, I would say,behind his art making and how he
got to where he is and where hestarted out and where he's
ended up today.
And he is between, today, sanAntonio, texas, and New York,
(06:00):
and so he's going back and forth.
I know he's doing a lot in SanAntonio, but he's in New York a
lot and he travels around theand forth.
I know he's doing a lot in SanAntonio, but he's in New York a
lot and he travels around theglobe.
We'll talk about that prettyregularly too.
But he was born in 1961 inTallahassee, florida, and he
grew up in a home near alandfill and then I don't know
when he moved to Connecticut,but at some point in there he
(06:21):
was born in Florida, moved toConnecticut and he's known for
large scale installations andmixed media works that explore a
lot of themes wrapped up withinit, and I'm actually not going
to talk about the themes becauseI don't think he would want me
to, so I'm not going to talkabout what people have guessed.
These themes are even what he'stalked about, because we'll get
(06:41):
into why.
I'm not going to do that foryou.
I want you to discover thosethings yourself when you look at
his work.
But his art does have somepersonal narrative and
environment and memories ofenvironments wrapped up within
it as well, and if you've everstood in front of one of his
works, which I've been blessedto see a few mind-blowing,
(07:09):
honestly, absolutelyshockinglyingly mind blowing to
me and he's somebody that Irefer to any artist that's been
in my mentorship program who's asculptor or an installation
artist he's usually right at thetop of that list.
When I send them research, I'mlike dive in to.
Leonardo drew immenselyAnything and everything you can
get your hands on, listen to it,read it, buy it, go see it,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I mean, when you see his pieces in person, it just
dominates the room that itoccupies, that they occupy, and
it's just, it's something whereI it almost makes whatever else
might be in that space reallyhard to appreciate, because it
is so, so overwhelmingly allconsuming.
It's, it's, it's really reallyquite something.
(07:50):
So if you've not had a chanceto see his work in person,
photos don't do it justice, asis the case with most, you know,
three-dimensional work.
But let's go ahead and throw inanother quote that kind of
dovetails off the one that weopened up with, just talking
about his insane work ethic.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yes, something like that 16, 16, 17, 18.
There used to be 20 hour daysbut I stopped that.
Like in the studio, whatusually happens is I'm rotating
seven things and they kind ofbalance one another and I find
that like they assist oneanother in completing themselves
(08:27):
.
So it's never just one thing.
I'll work on something and I'lltake it to near completion, and
if it's not working out, I'lltake it apart and I'll make
something else with it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
All right.
So there's a lot there to diveinto, but I want to.
I want to begin by again, kindof circling back to that opening
quote that we shared, justscrumming.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's why I Begin by again kind of circling back to
that opening quote that weshared Just coming.
That's why I said if I get upin the morning, I know I have to
work.
I don't necessarily have to sayI'm going to make work about
this or that.
You know, it's like it's justgoing to happen.
It's like it's just going towork.
It's just all that other stuffis going to come into play.
You don't have to call on.
(09:05):
I mean, work is sort of like,you know, it's self-perpetuating
and sort of lives on itself.
So it's like I get up, you know, what I investigated yesterday
has led to some new realizationand I'm onto that.
It's not like, you know, I haveall these answers and it's like
the work is like without astruggle.
I mean, actually struggle is,you know, like the fact that you
don't have the answers isactually the most um, the
(09:28):
beautiful most beautiful part ofthe journey, just his, his work
ethic.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You know when you watch the videos and, and, again
, definitely encourage y'all toto go.
And the art 21 is, uh isfantastic.
That's a great place to start.
But when you see his studio,his process, like he is working,
he is dressed for manual labor.
You know what I mean.
So boots back, brace gloves,you know.
(09:56):
You see uh all types ofdifferent.
You know construction tools, uhin his in, uh in his space, and
it's, it's absolutely justinspiring to see the way that he
clocks in and we've talkedabout this a lot in previous
episodes as well.
But just the work ethic for him.
I don't need to wonder what I'mgoing to do.
(10:16):
I know I'm going to go to workand the work continues to
perpetuate, more and more work.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, because of that he says in that first quote I
don't go through slumps, Right,you know what I mean.
He's just like I'm constantlyworking and so I'm always
discovering.
Because I'm constantly workingand he, you know, at the end of
that quote, he's investigatingyesterday has led to something
new and now he's onto that.
So now he's moving to the nextthing and I have all these
(10:45):
answers and the work is withoutstruggle.
He says struggle is the factyou don't have the answers.
That's the most beautiful partof the journey and we talk about
this all the time.
Right, it's like that's ifyou're constantly working,
you're constantly havingquestions, and every time you
kind of get to an answer, it'sproviding a new question and
that's kind of his search andhis process.
And I do think it's funny whenhe says where is it in the quote
(11:07):
?
In the studio he says where isit?
I'm rotating seven things andthey balance on one another, and
he has this philosophy of theseven crying babies.
I don't know if you came acrossthat.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I think that might have been in the Kerry Scott
podcast and he talks about howhe says that in almost every
interview I don't think we havePretty much every interview.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So it's like if one baby's crying and you quiet it,
there's still another six babiescrying, and then, once you go
to adjust the other baby, thenthat one starts crying.
And so it's this repeatedcircle of there's always
something to be moving.
And if you watch the videos andthings, there are times when
he'll tell the personinterviewing if you're here long
enough, you're going to startmoving things, Because while
(11:49):
we're in the studio, I'm seeingthis and that's got to move and
this needs to move.
And that just shows us how init he is.
He's so in it that even whenhe's in the interview, he's
going oh, I need to move thosethree things.
So as soon as we do a cut here,you're going to come help me
move these Right, you know.
And the absolute physicality,though, of his work, as you said
too, you know he's had handsurgeries on both hands.
(12:12):
He's about to have double kneesurgery.
He is somebody who isphysically and mentally and
emotionally so grounded in thework he's making that it is
breaking him down in ways too,because he's so in it he's not
stopping, he has to do it.
We'll hear about that later,but how do you relate to that?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, how much time do you have?
I mean one of the things aboutthat opening clip from I think
that was from the mad museum ofart and design.
That's about a five minute video.
It's fantastic.
One of the things that jumpedoff the screen to me when I was
watching that was it's a verybrief cut, but it's his punch
list for the day, right, yeah,and so a punch list is, I think,
(13:00):
that term.
I'm pretty sure that term comesfrom construction.
It definitely does, cause, frommy experience, you know,
working in the trades andworking, you know, under
underneath a proper, propertrades people and contractors
but a punch list is like thelast list of things that need to
be done before the project isfinished.
Right, so, as your projectgoing on at your place right now
(13:21):
, they've got a punch list andsometimes they think it's done,
and sometimes, in your case, thehomeowner would say, actually
there's a few more things weneed to add to that.
But I just love that.
I mean, that's a very you know,just such a work driven
approach to these are the thingsthat need to be done and what's
the next thing on the list.
And so I just got the biggestsmile on my face, because that's
(13:42):
how I relate to that.
Right, like every day, I've gotprobably I don't know four or
five different legal pads inaddition to my journals where
I'm writing about the work.
But I've got these legal padsand a lot of three by five note
cards all over the place ofdifferent punch lists for the
day, because that's what I speakfor for him, but that's what
keeps me, keeps me on track,knowing that, hey, when I'm
(14:03):
cause that's an interestingthing about those long 14, 16,
20 hour days Like I think it'dbe very difficult, very rare is
the artist who can work thatlong period.
But especially, I think it's thetype of work that he does
certainly lends itself to longerdays.
A hundred percent I can relateto this because so much of it is
(14:24):
just very task driven.
It's like I'm going to bedissecting this piece in his
case, weathering, which we'lltalk about in a little bit.
I'm going to be assembling allof these.
You know little pieces.
So before you know it, you knowthree, four or five hours have
gone by just doing very manual.
You know labor intensive work.
That's that's really what stuckout to me the most, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, and we're all different.
I mean, this is the thing, like, just because Leonardo drew,
does, that doesn't mean that youor myself or any other artists
listening is going, oh man, Idon't put in enough work,
nothing's going to happen for me, I can't put in six, right?
It's like it's all differentfor everybody and there's plenty
of artists, including myself.
I work a lot, but there aretimes where I go into the studio
(15:08):
and I work an hour.
Or I go into the studio and Ijust read a little bit.
I go into the studio one dayand I could work for six or
eight hours, I could work for 10or 15 hours.
Then there's periods of timewhere I'm working minimally but
I'm doing something, and so, andit's, you know.
But I also have a family, youknow as well.
So there's that balance to abalancing, you know, life
outside the studio with lifeinside the studio.
(15:29):
And for Leonardo, you know,it's just him, he's solo, so
he's really putting as much timeas he can to do those things.
And there's a quote that I loveby Van Gogh that says great
things are done by a series ofsmall things brought together.
Right, and in essence, that'severything you just said and
that's everything that Leonardojust said.
All these small things, thepunch list, the journals, the
(15:50):
notes, all that and that time,all of those little things, like
great things are done.
Great art is made in the end byall those things coming
together and having anintersection is made in the end
by all those things comingtogether and having an
intersection, thinking of allthose small things being brought
together to really createsomething great in the end.
Really, for Leonardo started ata young age, in his early years
, to growing up around a dumpand seeing so many different
(16:12):
little things all over as achild.
I think we have a really goodclip of him talking about that
we do.
Here it is.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And the dump was my playground.
So we I played out there, youknow, like all of us did.
I mean I had a different youknow.
Take on what the dump was.
I mean I was grabbing thingsthere and trying to make things.
Others were there, you know,like I said, playing around the
cesspool and falling into it.
You know.
So you know, yeah, into it.
You know.
So you know, yeah, you know mybeginnings in terms of how I
(16:42):
probably see even found objectsand what they mean to me and how
I'm trying to echo that in myworks had its beginnings there.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I love the fact that early memories because, you know
, memory plays such a big partin my work and everything that I
do.
But I love when I get to hearthose stories from my favorite
artists and how their memoriesimpact their work later on, you
know.
And so just seeing thosediscarded items and those, that
(17:13):
fascination with materials andrandom things right, that are
not art supplies, you know, it'ssomething, you something.
They're not art supplies,they're random things how that
really really did infect and getinside him to create this
visceral response later on toadapt his art making to reflect
(17:34):
some of those things.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
When I listened to him tell that story it really
triggered a visceral memory forme that I hadn't previously
connected to my practice today.
But when I was a kid I spentI've talked about this quite a,
I think, before, but wouldwander around in the woods and
just explore and journal, write,sketch, take photos, just just
(18:00):
be out in my own little world.
There's a bunch of city landbehind where I lived and it was
just my playground.
But there was a dump that wasadjacent to the city land and
sometimes I would wander throughthere and it was a playground.
It was absolutely.
I remember just being whatever.
I was seven.
A playground it was.
It was absolutely.
(18:20):
I remember just being whatever.
I was seven, eight, nine yearsold and I would drag a bunch of
just cool looking objects that Ithought were interesting back
to the house and my dad was veryforgiving but he said this is
your space to keep your pile ofthings and you have to.
You can't, it can't grow.
You have to decide if you'regoing to do something with it.
(18:41):
We can't just be, you know,collecting, collecting garbage
in the in in in the garage.
I remember once I found this,this just perfect piece of
really really soft aluminumpiping that I then pounded into,
like whatever, some kind of asamurai sword, right?
So then that or what I, what Ithought looked like a samurai
sword, and I would, you know,take that back into the woods
(19:03):
with me for protection,obviously.
But yeah, no, it's just, it's,it's super interesting.
And so I think about thosemoments of just like that oh wow
, look at this, what could I do?
What could this be?
What could I do with this?
You know and I don't know, Ijust had never really really
occurred to me how much thatrelates to all of the dumpster
(19:24):
diving and the walks that I takewith Leo, my dog, just finding,
finding things.
Now, but that's what I'mchasing, you know is that that
moment that I felt as a child ofjust like this is incredible.
Look at this, look at this oneof a kind gem that was just
laying out here, discarded,disposed of.
No one cares about it, but Iwill.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I think that's a really good segue into something
here with Leonardo, becausethere was something that he saw
at this point as a young boythat he saw something that
literally just changedeverything for him, like slapped
him in the face in such a waythat he just changed everything
for him, like slapped him in theface in such a way that he just
had to switch.
He had to, like changedirections.
(20:06):
And this is young, you know.
This is what.
16?
Was it?
Or was it like 14?
It might've been around 14 or15 years old, I can't remember
exactly the age, but it's inthat young teenage years, and he
was a brilliant illustrator andcomic book designer, like
himself drawing comic books andillustrator like incredible, to
(20:31):
the point where at 13 or 14years old he got famous for it.
He did a Captain America drawingthat ended up in a show that
got the attention of Marvel, dc,heavy Metal Magazine and I know
he loves to tell the story ofMarvel and DC were battling out
to sign him, to bring him on,and at the time it was when the
(20:51):
first Christopher Reeve Supermanfilm came out and Marvel wasn't
doing films or anything, theywere just page comic books and
DC was.
Well, we're making movies, soyou should definitely come with
us.
You know what I mean.
And that was one of thosethings he was really considering
, because that was his dream atthat point in time.
I want to be a comic bookartist, I want to draw, and
there's some success when he, asa child, was struggling in the
(21:13):
projects and it's like all of asudden there just could be this
success.
And then I'll let Drew talkabout what happened to him at
this point in his life.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I was drawing and using colored inks and things
like that.
People in the neighborhood theprojects where I grew up in
Bridgeport, connecticut theywere telling me about this place
called ABCD Cultural ArtsCenter.
They said that, well, you haveto go there because they have
paints and canvases.
And I said, wow, this is allthe stuff for free.
Well, you have to go therebecause they have paints and
canvases.
And I said, wow, this is allfor free.
So once I made my way over tothem, I ended up with these
(21:46):
mentors, a fantastic group ofartists who were just there
helping kids, and I was one ofthem.
My goodness, just copyingcartoons here, just copied
directly from television, likewhatever I was watching.
(22:07):
I had the facility to be ableto do that at a young age, but
at the same time it wasn'toriginal thought, real fun.
This is actually from thenewspaper article when I from my
first exhibition at age 13.
And we used it as a flyer.
Of course, these are much later.
(22:35):
I was approached by DC Comicsand Heavy Metal Magazine and
Marvel Comics to do work forthem.
When I saw this black and whitereproduction of Jackson
Pollock's work when I was in thelibrary in high school, that
was it, and that was my firsttake on what fine art was
Imagine Jackson Pollock in blackand white.
But it still, you know,elicited such a visceral
(22:57):
response that when seeing it, Iwas kind of like, wow, this is
amazing.
And from that point on I beganto question, you know, what I
was doing, up against what I hadseen and what I felt.
More actually, what I had feltProbably would have been like 15
.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Think about that, nathan.
Think about that Nathan Like tome.
You know somebody who reallykind of grew up in and around
poverty, in and aroundstruggling families and he has
this ability that is reallyuncomparable.
Where he's from Right, and thenhe has an opportunity and then
(23:36):
he comes across as black andwhite of Paul Like and he goes.
I mean, he has so manydifferent responses and
interviews to that.
I was shocked, I was blown away.
I couldn't believe it.
I was marveled by it.
It just wooed me.
But the whole thing was like hedidn't realize that something
else existed outside of what hewas doing and he already had the
full artist spiritual mindsetand soul at that age where it
(24:00):
went.
Had the full artist spiritualmindset and soul at that age
where it went.
Oh, no, no, there's somethingelse for me to chase here.
Right, that seems much bigger.
Yeah, unending, that doesn'thave an end.
Everything I'm doing right nowhas an end.
Yeah, I draw the figure, I dothis, I do the story, whatever.
And it just kind of stops tohim.
He said this feels like there'ssomething unending.
What am I going to do?
(24:20):
And then he decided to go tocollege, for it went to Parsons
for two years and I think hesaid in an interview it just was
boring him, it wasn't givinghim the opportunity to be
completely free in the way hewanted to go.
So he transferred to CooperUnion and had a pretty
incredible set of mentors atCooper Union, including one of
(24:40):
our other favorite artists, jackWitten, who was.
If you look at Leonardo's earlywork, you can see the mirror
reflection in a lot of thoseearly pieces too, before he went
sculptural and installation.
Even the 2D and flat wallpieces are really, in my eyes, a
swan song to Witten in a way aswell.
Of is a swan song to Witten ina way as well.
But just to me, man, itcompletely blew me away that
(25:06):
story of this kid overcoming ina way that was like quick
success.
Don't want it Right At 15 yearsold.
I want the hard work to discover.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, having that level of resolve, because he was
touched at such a soul leveland just knowing it didn't even
sound like it was that difficultof a decision, he just knew.
Nope, he knew I'm supposed togo this way, not that way it's
incredible, it's absolutelyincredible when he said I saw
that picture and I knew rightthen.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Right, it was this instant thing.
Saw that picture and I knewright then.
It's like it was this instantthing and it's almost like the
Helen Frankenthaler story ofwalking into the Betty Parsons
gallery and seeing the Pollockshow for the first time, and
then her running back to herstudio and putting canvas on the
ground and doing her thing andshe says all I needed was
permission.
I just hadn't gotten it yet.
That's right To me, that pieceand I have this conversational
(26:00):
thing Whether you like Pollockor not, whether you think his
work's terrible or you love hiswork, you're inspired by it or
not, he has given an enormousamount of artists in history
permission to go, experiment anddo things that didn't seem like
they were supposed to be doing.
It just gave him the ability togo.
I can do whatever I want.
(26:20):
Let's go, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
There's another quote I want to share here where he
speaks to how he sort of gotabout, got to the point of
making that decision.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
My ability to be able to draw and paint well actually
was getting in a way of merealizing something larger.
It's hard to get past somethingso beautifully done and then,
at the same time, ask thequestion what's underneath that?
I decided it was time for me tostop using what I did well.
So what I did was, almostliterally, tied my hands.
(26:54):
I said okay, you can no longerpaint or draw and you're going
to have to find another way tocreate.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Again, go watch these videos, because you see some of
these illustrations that he wasdoing, you know, as a, as a
high schooler, and theseillustrations are, I mean it's
you can absolutely see why hewas getting the attention that
he was from, from DC, fromMarvel, why he had options to to
stay on, to stay on that path.
You know, I think this is aninteresting question, I think
(27:20):
one that would be worthdiscussing for us, but I think
it's a he brings up a criticalquestion that would be valuable
for all of us to ask ourselves,which is am I too comfortable?
Is what I'm doing now too easy?
Right, yeah, and we may or maynot have the strength of
(27:41):
character to completely, in hiswords, tie our hands behind our
back and completely set asidesomething that is working.
But wow, what's on the otherside of that?
Am I getting too comfortable?
Have I done what I needed to dohere?
And what else is on the otherside of what might be?
(28:02):
And also realizing thatobviously there are a lot of
ways to get from one place toanother, but there's a lot of
value in completely settingaside that thing or the things
that are making us comfortable,that are keeping us comfortable
and completely opening up acomplete new vein of work.
(28:24):
That wouldn't have beenpossible had we remained
tethered to the thing that wasworking, that was keeping us
comfortable.
What do you think about?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What's what's?
I know there's been times inyour, in your career, because
you've, you've been, you've beenat this a while.
You've you've made a number ofdifferent you know decisions,
conscious or or maybe at asubconscious level, to make
different shifts.
So how do you think about thatquestion and that decision?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, and just to remind everybody, if you haven't
listened to our episode fromMarch 27th the Greater the
Artist, the Greater the Doubt.
We kind of go into some ofthese ideas about Nathan and
myself in our studio practicepretty intensely and thickly.
So just a reminder foreverybody, that's the March 27th
episode.
This spoke to me so much, itwas a confidence builder for me
(29:14):
really studying and diving intoLeonardo for this episode,
because I really try to be whathe is in that way and he's
really taken, you know thatfirst jump.
He's taking his existingfacilities right Of what he
knows how to do and is extremelygood at drawing and he
(29:35):
completely went opposite.
You know what I mean.
So he left the control, he leftthe, the plan, he left.
I mean all that's planning,it's control, it's whatever.
He completely like you see,tied his hands and went totally
different, completely different.
And that's something every timeI find I'm really really truly
(29:56):
controlling something.
I'm switching it up.
I'm switching it up.
I feel like, okay, I'm askingquestions with everything I'm
trying here and the second Istart to resolve those.
I want a whole lot morequestions.
I don't want just one morequestion, I want a hundred more
questions to go explore, becauseI know what that inroad is
going to be.
I know what's going to happenIf you gosh.
(30:18):
What an example.
Look at Leonardo's first works,look at his first works and then
look at today.
Like you see this gradual,gradual, gradual, slow ramp to
things, just exploding in ways.
And I think too, I mean what.
It took him seven years to getthere.
I think we talk about that in aminute.
But he had this moment of justdisappearing into the studio to
(30:41):
work things out for a very longperiod of time before pushing
work out there.
Studio to work things out for avery long period of time before
pushing work out there.
Right, like, who has thatpersistent patience to do that?
I mean, I've done it in sixmonths For seven years.
I've done it in six monthsSomething that was giving him
recognition shows and wasabsolutely working.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
It's tremendous.
I mean, you talk aboutquestions.
Back to that first quote thatwe shared.
The struggle is the fact thatyou don't have the answers is
actually the most beautiful partof the journey Absolutely
that's the beautiful part.
You talk about asking more andmore questions and most of which
we won't have the answers towhen they're asked.
(31:24):
We may never find the answersdefinitively, but it's the
journey that really excites us,that leads us to the next place.
It's a beautiful, beautifulthing.
There's another quote I want toshare Timeless.
You had something else on that.
Yep, All right.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
There is no escaping your past With certainty,
absolute certainty.
I can look back on some of theconfigurations that I've created
and I can see those projects.
I can see the landfills.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
There's no escaping your past.
I don't know about you, butwhen I heard him say that, it
brought me back to Louise, andhow much of her past is baked
into all of know, all of herwork, all of the memories, all
the experiences that she had.
I think it was Fellini thatsaid all art is autobiographical
(32:14):
.
Yeah, so if we agree thatthat's true, I do, I think you
do as well.
Yeah, absolutely, it doesn'thave to be.
I mean autobiographical canmean anything you know it
doesn't have to be.
I mean autobiographical canmean anything you know.
It doesn't have to be anobjective narrative sense.
It can be, of course, but itdoesn't have to be right.
(32:35):
It's going to be just bakedinto the DNA of everything that
you make, because it's comingfrom you and it's flowing
through you.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot
lately, even before we startedlistening to this, because I was
reading a book about one of myfavorite authors, madeline
L'Engle, and she was talkingabout when she was writing
another book and she was sayinghow each time she's writing
about a character that may be 14years old or 15 years old so
let's say, she's writing about acharacter who's a 14 year old
(33:06):
girl and she says I have to goback to when I'm 14 and think
about who I was, what I was,what I did at that point to
write about that.
And she said so many writershave trouble doing that.
And then she says this quoteI'm still every age I've ever
been, and that's a very simplething.
But we forget that often and Ithink what Leonardo is saying
(33:31):
and what you and I believe is,even then, when those memories
and those ideas are coming back,we're able to really put
ourselves back into that momentwhen we're making and be that
right.
It's you working on a piecethat you discovered in the woods
and then remembering when youand your dad were walking
through the woods and you foundthis piece right and you wanted
to go put it in your pile rightand then your dad well, you need
(33:51):
to take some stuff out of there.
Then if you're going to putthese pieces in, we need to, you
know.
So it's like, but that is, it'sbaked in, it's 100% baked in.
I just love that quote.
Like I'm still every age, I'veever been age, I've ever been so
when I'm telling stories ofmoments in my life, it's just,
yeah, I've got tears likewelling up because it's just,
it's a very simple thing, butit's so powerful yes, and
(34:13):
especially for an artist, whenthose things are baked in and
you're sharing stories andyou're thinking of moments,
whether it's healing trauma,addiction, recovery, all these
things you're still that personand I think that's what Louise
was the best at for me in artwhen she made some of those
works she was creating as the15-year-old Louise who was just
(34:34):
dying inside for her father torespect her Right.
And when you walk into one ofthose rooms, you are right in
there.
Whether you know what it'ssaying or not, it has the power
to touch you in a way that yougo.
I think I need to really goresearch this piece because it
just did something to me.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
That is so powerful that I need to run and check
this out.
I think I shared this story ina previous episode, but I'm
going to share it again, justsince we're talking about Louise
.
But I was at the Art Instituteof Chicago with my mom, whatever
five months ago.
Yeah, you sent me that picture.
Yeah, walked into a room fullof full I think there were eight
or nine Louise pieces in theroom and my mom had no context.
We uh we had some drive time asa road trip to go see some
(35:17):
family and so I uh made herlisten to our episode as we were
killing some drive time afterthat.
But she walked in the roomwithout you know any, but so
that was really cool to watch,to see her experience, that,
that, the depth of her work,without, without any context,
and just to before I went fullart nerd and you know, told her
everything that, uh, you knowthat I knew and and and and for
(35:40):
context purposes.
But before I did that, I askedher like, how does this sit with
you?
How does this make you?
And it was just, it was justtremendous.
You know we talk about I'm stillevery age I've ever been.
We were out to dinner lastnight.
Our daughter, uh, had a choirconcert, and so we're out to
dinner afterwards with my wifeand our two girls and my mom,
and I said something ridiculous,as I uh often, as I often do,
(36:02):
and our youngest was like howold are you?
And I said, well, sweetie, I'm45 and I'm also 15.
And so, which is absolutelytrue, and so I, you know, but I
think about you know, when youtalk about you know, louise,
it's being able to tap into that, the five-year-old, the
(36:23):
10-year-old, the 20, right Withthrough the lens of wisdom and
lived experience that we'veacquired along the way.
That's different, that'sdifferent than how we would have
been able to even, you know,articulate or communicate our
experience at those younger ages.
But it's, it's, it's beautiful,it's just beautiful.
(36:45):
Love it.
There, it is, love it, yeah,you got to double down.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
You can't love it, love it, listen, that's the tie.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
That is the tie Love it, love it, love it.
But it never sounds like you do.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
But I do.
I mean, I catch myself, nathan,now saying that to people on
the phone and I just think ofyou making fun of me for going.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh, you're not excited about what I said.
You've got beautiful energy,but when you love it, love it.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
When you say that, to me it's like let's let's time
to move on.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Let's move on.
I'm not actually interested inwhat we're talking about right
now, let's play another clip.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
One of the issues that has consistently come up
when people write about the artis that they talk about found
objects.
Actually, I don't work withfound objects.
Most of my material I actuallycreate it in the studio.
So I actually go out and I buymaterial, brand new stuff.
I actually become the weather.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So, ty, I don't know about you I saw one of Drew's
pieces before I knew anythingabout him it was quite a while
ago and I remember viewing thework being blown away by it and
then, when I later learned thateverything was self-manufactured
(38:02):
, was created by him and and byby the weather, I couldn't
believe it.
I mean, it was, it was it'smind blowing to think, uh,
everything, almost everythingthat he uses, um, he purchases,
and it's, you know, raw, basicform, and does everything to
those materials to make it lookthe way that it does.
(38:24):
It's, uh, it's pretty wild, Imean.
So, for those of you that maynot be familiar with his work,
definitely go and look at hisworks through that lens of he
touched all that a lot.
You know, through so manydifferent processes and things
that he learned over time totransform those materials from
what they once were into whatthey are now, those materials
(38:44):
from what they once were intowhat they are now.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Is that right?
Yeah, wowed me.
Yeah, I didn't, I had no idea,I had no clue, and I guess I
would consider myself a miniDrew Storian or Drew Wyatt now,
because I just I love the guy somuch and I think it's not just
his work but it's hispersonality and joy that just
exudes anytime I watch him, I'mjust even more in love with him.
(39:06):
But joy that just exudesanytime I watch him.
I'm just even more in love withhim.
But so, being a Drew story andit's like it makes sense, yeah,
it makes absolute sense.
It would not make sense ifeverything was just a found
object and already weathered andput together.
No, he is taking, you know,somebody who is using found
objects and doing ready-madesand things, and he's completely
creating every bit of wood orpiece of poor, all these things
(39:32):
into art pieces.
Yeah, right, so he is themedium.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So there's a there's a more in-depth quote on the
weathering process that we'regoing to share in just a second
here, but you brought upsomething really important that
I wanted to discuss today.
But it's the, the absolute joythat exudes from.
I mean, you can?
This is a happy human being,it's marvelous.
It's marvelous because he just,he, it just he's so fun to
listen to.
He's such a great communicator,he's just joyful.
(40:00):
And I think it was definitely um, the uh, the Carrie Scott
interview on her podcast Scene,which is fantastic.
That's on all the podcastplaces.
Definitely go listen to that.
That's of the whatever eightdifferent long-form interviews
that I listened to inpreparation for this.
That's one of my favorites, forsure.
(40:21):
But she says this and sheidentifies it so perfectly, for
sure, but she says this and sheidentifies it so perfectly.
She said you know, there's sucha, there's such a and I'm
paraphrasing here but there'ssuch a difference between your
personality, which is so lightand joyful, and the heaviness of
your work.
And and I do not recall hisresponse exactly, but it was a
(40:43):
form of like, yeah, like, thisis me, this is, this is the work
, but it was such an interestingthing to think about.
I had an interesting experiencein um, in Munich.
Uh, after the, after theopening, after the opening, the,
the uh, benjamin, at thegallery.
He said one thing I heard a lotfrom a lot of uh, you know
people who were there was theydidn't the people that talked to
(41:05):
you or heard you talk, theydidn't expect you to be this way
after seeing your work.
And I said what do you mean, uh?
And he said you, you, just youdon't seem like somebody who
would make work like this.
I said I think that's uh, Ithink that's a compliment, I
don't whatever.
Uh, but it was.
It was interesting to hear andI was like huh, that's that's
(41:30):
interesting.
It was actually so.
When I heard this, when I heardthat as part of the interview,
it was, it was.
It was encouraging that, uh, um, any type of work can come from
any type of person.
Back to our earlier quote ofyou can't escape your past and
what's what's in you is going tocome out through your work.
But it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to be any certain
way that is or is notconsistent with how your work
(41:51):
appears, some of my favoritework.
Again, it's way more about theart than the artist, but I love
being surprised when there is agap of what you think somebody
who makes this type of work andhow they occur, how they present
, how they communicate.
It's a really interesting thing.
(42:12):
Absolutely, let's hear moreabout his process.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Make sure to tune in to episode two of Leonardo Drew
to hear more about his processComing soon.
Stay tuned.
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