February 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Imagine the thrill of witnessing your art travel across oceans for a debut in Europe. Join Nathan Terborg he recounts the exhilarating journey of his solo exhibition at Gallerie Benjamin Eck in Munich and the captivating artist talk with curator Domenico de Cirico. This episode promises an insider's look into the logistics of moving over 1,300 pounds of art, the Japanese philosophy of wabi-sabi that fuels his worldview, and the concept of Weltanschauung that shapes his artistic vision. With Domenico's engaging questions, they traverse the landscape of impermanence and decay, finding beauty in the overlooked and forgotten materials Nathan incorporates into his works.
Listeners will gain insight into his creative processes as Nathan shares how artists like Kiefer, Burri, and Bradford have profoundly influenced his work with discarded materials. This isn't just about art; it's a narrative of transformation and resilience. From a personal journey from addiction to recovery, they explore parallels between personal growth and artistic creation. This conversation is a heartfelt appreciation of the power of creativity to renew perspectives and give new life to forgotten materials, turning them into compelling stories of renewal. A special thanks goes to Benjamin Eck for this incredible opportunity, Domenico de Chirico for the thoughtful and thought-provoking questions, Chris Fay for doing the videography at the event, and everyone who supported and attended the exhibition.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hey there, welcome to another episode of Just Make
Art.
My name is Nathan Terborg andI'm your solo host for today's
episode.
Really just an intro, becausewe're going to hold on.
I'm not actually solo, sorry,buddy.
I am here with my creativedirector, leo the dog.
He will likely not say much,but if he does, I will most
(00:34):
certainly put the mic on him,all right?
So today's episode, we'reactually going to share an
artist talk that was recorded atthe opening of my solo
exhibition at Gallery BenjaminEck in Munich just a few weeks
ago.
I've talked about this in thepod in a few previous episodes
as I've been preparing andgetting ready for it the last
few months and, if you'recurious, you can see actually a
(00:55):
full walkthrough of the showitself.
That we did on IG Live.
It's still on our Just Make ArtInstagram page.
That we did with Ty andBenjamin.
What's up, bud?
Nothing.
Okay, leo is going to remainsilent.
So the recording that I'm aboutto share is actually an
interview with Domenico DiCirico, who is a fantastic curator
(01:16):
from Milan, and this is actuallyone of two interviews that
we're going to be sharing.
The next one will be thefollowing week.
That's a separate sit down thatI did with Benjamin the
following day, but I want toshare a few quick thank yous
before we jump in.
First of all, to Benjamin, justfor the opportunity.
This is my first time showingin Europe and it was incredible.
It was everything that I hopedit would be, and then some.
(01:39):
I had a lot of challenges and alot of questions as far as how
it was all going to turn out,not the least of which was
shipping.
What ended up being?
What was it?
670 kilos, about 1,300, 1,400pounds worth of art in a single
crate across the ocean.
Everything arrived safely and Iespecially want to thank him
(01:59):
for allowing me to finish thefeature piece, which is a
triptych.
In fact, it's the one thatwe're sitting in front of, if
you're watching the video ofthis on uh on YouTube.
I also want to thank Domenicofor the thoughtful and thought
provoking questions.
He is tremendous at what hedoes.
He's an absolute professionaland also just a really just
quality and just lovely humanbeing.
(02:20):
I really enjoy getting a chanceto uh, to spend time with him
and get to know him before andafter the show.
I also want to thank everybodywho attended the opening.
Domenico's questions really gotme thinking and probably ended
up sharing a little bit morethan I had anticipated, but had
some really cool conversationswith everybody who was there,
both before and after the talk.
(02:40):
It was just a really, really,really fun event after the talk
and was just a really, really,really fun event.
So, lastly, I just want tothank Chris Fay, who did both
the video and audio for thisinterview.
We'll share the socials for allof the above if you want to go
check out their work and givethem a follow as well.
With that, here's the interview.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Hello guys, welcome to the opening show of Nathan
Turburg Laugh for Patterns.
So today my words are kind ofsmall and short because we have
prepared something special foryou and support from someone I
(03:22):
respect and share quite a fewsince years is Domenico
Littierico.
He's here for a talk withNathan Turberg.
I want to give the word tothese guys because it's much
more interesting to have thedeep insights of the artists and
of the professionals that isdoing this job for years.
(03:45):
Give it a big hand for theseguys and the next 20 minutes are
yours.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Thank you.
Thanks, benjamin, for invitingus and for having us here with
you, and professional respect ismutual, so we have mutually
decided to give thiscontribution by making this.
(04:11):
I prepared this questionnairefor Nathan just to give to us
the possibility to discover hispractice in this alternative way
, which is basically thisconversation between the two of
us.
So just thinking that we werebasically making this exhibition
(04:38):
in Germany, I went back to someof my interests, and one of
them is philosophy, and I wantedto ask this question, which is
the first one to Nathan, andit's the German word
Weltanschauung is slowlytranslated into worldview, but
(04:58):
its meaning is deeper and morenuanced.
It refers to a particularphilosophy or set of beliefs
that shapes how a person or agroup understands and interprets
the world, including values,culture, aesthetics and how one
perceives existence.
The world itself is a compoundof veld worlds and anschauung
(05:22):
view, perception or outlook.
Welt world and Anschauung view,perception or outlook.
So it literally means worldviewor world perception.
It often combines the idea of acomprehensive, overarching
perspective or ideology thatinfluences someone's thoughts
and actions.
In light of all of this, what'syour belt and shawl, nathan,
(05:47):
and is there any closeconnection with your artistic
practice?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I think that my practice is connected to my
worldview.
The way that I see the worldspecifically is I believe that
there is beauty in everything is.
I believe that there is beautyin everything, that every
material and, by extension,experience, even and sometimes
(06:14):
especially the most challengingones and difficult ones, have
the most potential for growth.
Forgotten ones, yes, and sothat speaks to the materiality
of when I am in the world,walking around.
I find most of the beauty inthings that are falling apart,
(06:36):
that are degrading.
One of the aestheticphilosophies that I really
appreciate I'm by no means ascholar on it, but it's that of
the Japanese philosophy ofwabi-sabi, which really speaks
to the beauty of impermanence,finding beauty in the small,
delicate things that wouldotherwise go unnoticed, and so a
(07:00):
big part of what I'm trying todo with my work, everything here
is made from found material, sothings that I have found while
walking around with my dog,things that I find sometimes in
the dumpster, things that I havedeveloped relationships with
different manufacturers orpeople in industry that produce
(07:21):
a lot of the same type of waste,and my goal is to hopefully
shine a light and highlight thebeauty that I see in all things.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
The second one is it is clear that, in terms of
artistic references, there arethree cornerstones that resonate
in your artistic practiceAlberto Burri, anselm Kiefer and
Mark Bradford and that's funnybecause actually I'm Italian as
Alberto Burri, anselm Kiefer isGerman, as the gallery owner,
(07:58):
benjamin, and Mark Bradford isfrom USA, as you are, so this is
not made on purpose, and so thequestion is what have you
absorbed from each one of them?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Let me start with Burry, because I think that he
described himself as apolymaterialist, that he
described himself as apolymaterialist and when I first
heard that, when I first readthat it makes complete sense
when you study his work, whenyou look at his practice.
There's not a lot of videoavailable of him making work,
(08:32):
but there's some, and I thinkI've found most of it so far.
But it was for him just what Ibelieve is a kinship in terms of
just an insatiable curiosity ofwhat can be done with material,
how material can be transformedfrom the ordinary, from the
mundane, from things that wouldotherwise be ignored, dismissed
(08:54):
or discarded, and trying to boilit down to its essential nature
.
And trying to boil it down toits essential nature.
For Kiefer, I think that Becareful.
I know, you know I'm not nervousat all, except for when I talk
about.
So, when you were introduced tothe conversation, when I was
(09:15):
talking to Benjamin, it's veryspecial for me to be able to be
here, to be showing work, youknow, in Kiefer's home country,
to have you be involved as acurator, as a countryman of
Burry, I think that for Kiefer Ijust it's hard, for it's much
more difficult for me to putinto words.
I think that for him what Ilove and appreciate is that
(09:41):
nothing is off limits.
And if you, when you look atthe broad spectrum of, of his
body of work, there's such, youknow, such diversity, such from,
you know from, I mean from thedresses to the lead airplane, to
you know, obviously, his, his,you know, work on wall.
It's in the scale, I would sayis something that I aspire to.
(10:03):
You know, when you watch, youknow, the documentary, the
videos, you see just the grandscale of his space.
I aspire to one day have astudio that requires a bike to
get from one point to another.
We'll see if I can get there atsome point.
But for Bradford, for mycountrymen, I would say that I
(10:24):
was at the Broad in Los Angeleslast year and I got a chance to
see a couple of his large-scalepieces, and Helter Skelter is
probably my favorite piece ofhis.
It's part of the permanentcollection there, but what I
love about standing in front ofa Bradford piece is that even
(10:46):
something that's of amagnificent scale the size of
this wall or bigger, it isperfect from far away and it's
perfect from up close.
There is something in everysquare inch that if you were to
crop it and set it aside on itsown, it tells its own part of
the story.
From a practical standpoint,what I really have applied in my
(11:09):
own work is the process ofreducing, of building up layers
and reducing them down.
There's something magical thathappens when different materials
are put together, when they getto know each other, and then
when they're removed, and sothis piece in particular, this
(11:30):
section specifically, was aproduct of building up layers
and then reducing them tearingit away, cutting, carving,
burning.
I want to thank Benjamin forgiving me the space and the
grace to do all this here.
This looked very different whenit arrived and I told him that
(11:50):
I had just a couple of littlechanges to do, and since then
I've spent probably 50 hourshere, right here, finishing this
and removing and exposing thelayers that I had built up in my
home studio and would you saythat eventually, what you got
from Burri, for example, is theuse, also metaphorically
(12:14):
speaking, of the fire, then fromBurri perhaps it could be the
color palettes, and fromBradford?
metaphorically speaking, alsothe idea of the scars.
I think one thing that Bradfordand Burry have in common
specifically is that that I'veapplied in my work is that most
(12:39):
of the color that they used wasinherent in the material or a
product of the process.
And that's true, for I don't.
I use some white paint a littlebit, but everything else, all
of the color and the tones, area product of the material and
the process.
And that to me, like if my aimis to get to the essential
(13:01):
nature of what something couldbecome, that to me is which is
unexpected, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
So next question is according to your artist
statements, you have declaredthat you like mixing and
combining different materials ina way that still looks and
feels like they were meant to betogether.
What is your definition oftogether, or, in other words,
ensemble?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think that my definition would be for material
to appear more organic than itreally is, more organic than it
really is.
When you walk in the naturalworld, when we're out in nature,
everything looks like itbelongs together because it grew
(13:52):
together, because it cametogether on its own without any
Harmoniously.
Yes, there it is, yes, that.
And so when it comes to thework, I think that there's
something about combiningdifferent materials that
otherwise never would haveinteracted with one another.
I cannot imagine a situation inlife where coffee filters and
(14:14):
feed bags and billboard tarpswould ever have a reason to get
together and billboard tarpswould ever have a reason to get
together.
So in trying differentcombinations of different
materials, I learn which onesget along and which ones don't,
and they both produce differentand sometimes interesting
results.
So a long answer to a shortquestion would be I want for the
(14:39):
, the work, the finished work,to look like it grew together in
nature.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Thank you.
Moreover, you are clearlydefined as an abstract artist
who works with discardedmaterials to breathe new life
into wood, metal and industrialwaste.
Ultimately, capturing thebeauty is in unexpected layers
and reminding us of theuniqueness of these forgotten
(15:08):
materials.
With every piece, it seems thatyou have the marvellous ability
to tell a story of resilience,renewal and the power of
creativity to transform livesand perspectives.
Where does all of this comefrom, and what is the core that
triggers such needs and what areyour perspectives?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
My belief is that scars have a specific type of
beauty, that experiences,whether it be personal or
process, produce a type ofpatina, a type of beauty, a type
(15:56):
of interest that wouldn't existany other way.
I think that really all of mywork is fundamentally about
transformation.
Without going too deep into mystory, I will share that.
A big part of my life and myworldview comes from being a
recovering addict and havingalmost lost my life to drugs and
(16:21):
having now been in recovery andsober for over 20 years and
being very involved in thatprocess with other people think
that, for me, finding the beautyin the ugliest experiences and
the power that those have to notjust get us to where we were,
but better.
My favorite people are the oneswho have been through some shit
(16:45):
, people that have, you know.
I don't know anyone's storyhere, really, but I know that
everyone here has been, has hadpain, has had loss, has had
trauma, has had experiences thatwe never would choose to go
through.
But because we went throughthem, because we came out the
other side, we're better for it,and so that's my personal view,
(17:09):
my personal experience and whatI try to communicate through my
work experience and what I tryto communicate through my work.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Getting back to the perspectives, do you believe?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
that your personal ones intersect with your
professionals.
Well, I should begin byanswering that with saying that
I don't feel like a professional, in that I don't have any real
interest in mastery, and what Imean by that is, I think that if
I have any gift, it's that ofcuriosity and just an insatiable
hunger for experience andknowledge.
(17:49):
And just what could that be?
What could we make?
So I'm always, you know, wewalked back from the hotel and I
was like look at this plywood.
No, look at it as though wewere in a museum, right, and
that, to me, is really informed.
You know my perspective.
So I approach everything that Ido, whether it's personally or
(18:11):
professionally, I try toapproach it with a beginner's
mind of how would I think aboutthis, how would I look about
this if I didn't know anything?
Because from that place,everything's possible.
When I approach things, when weapproach things as a
professional, I know what I'mdoing.
Things narrow real quickly, youknow.
(18:34):
The list of possibilities getsmuch, much shorter, and so, for
me, the way I approach my workis the same way that I approach
my life.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Okay, in one of our conversations, the importance of
music in your life came up.
How does this need formusicality manifest in your
artwork?
Is it perhaps related to time?
And finally, is time in yourartistic practice more rhythmic
or fluid?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I mean the goal, I think for I'm sure I know
there's some artists here thegoal is to always find a place
of flow, to find a place offluidity where everything is a
consequence of what came beforeit.
One thing that I find myselfsaying to myself, which I talk
to myself a lot in the studio,is everything leads to the next
(19:26):
thing, meaning that there are nomistakes.
My work I learned recently,realized recently is really a
product of me anguish and painthat I experienced if I didn't
(19:56):
get the hand just right or if Ididn't get the ear just perfect,
and so my process and the way Iwant to approach things is that
everything is a naturalconsequence of what came before.
So even when and it happensoften in the studio something
doesn't go right, it could besomething else.
Everything that I've figuredout and learned is a product of
something going wrong ordifferently than I thought it
(20:18):
would, and so I think a lotabout, from a rhythm standpoint.
Not so much can I control whathappens in the studio, I'm just
seeking out how can I create theright conditions that will lead
to something else.
Even if it's not this thing andoften it isn't right I think a
lot about everything that I dois not for the piece that's in
(20:41):
front of me, it's for thepractice holistically, and what
it will lead to in the future.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Okay, and did you ever think about?
It's like there's a difference,no, between living and existing
?
Did you ever think?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
about it.
Yeah, Now you got me reallythinking how deep do you want to
go?
I mean, that's a heavy question.
I think about you know, we allhave a certain amount of time.
You know, and I think a lotabout you know, when I'm working
.
What if this was the last thingI ever got a chance to make?
Yes, and not in a morose ormorbid way, but in a sort of you
(21:21):
know, lamenta mori, you know,stoic, remember your death, and
it's coming for all of us atsome point.
So I think a lot about the ideaof not saving anything.
There was a time when I wouldlike save my good ideas for the
best time and I just stoppeddoing that because I don't we
don't know when the best time,you know, is going to be.
(21:41):
So I really try to poureverything that I have into
everything that I'm doing, and Ihave found that that has been
the best way to accelerate myprogression.
The thing I'm most excitedabout is what's next?
Always yes, yeah, While stilltrying to be where my feet are
planted.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yes, yeah, and last question is, at least from my
side, is finally.
So, based on what criteria didyou build this exhibition?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I kind of already spoke to that.
I think, really transformation.
Really, I wanted to try andtell the story of all of the
materials that I've used and Ithink that certainly my favorite
materials are represented.
You know, in some of theseworks I can connect the dots
between different pieces.
There's a lot of differentthings that appear, sometimes
(22:35):
very small, sometimes moreobvious in different things.
But to the title of the show,it really has been both a love
letter to layers but also myattempt to tell the story.
I want to give material a voice.
I want to give something that'sbeen discarded, that's been set
aside, that would be ignored,that would be trash, and I want
to try and give material a voice.
I want to give something that'sbeen discarded, that's been set
(22:55):
aside, that would be ignored,that would be trash, and I want
to try and give it a voice.
I want to try to say, hey, lookat this, this too has beauty,
and so I think that's what I tryto do.
Yes, thank you, nathan.
Thank you.
Appreciate it, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
Hey there, welcome to another episode of Just Make
Art.
My name is Nathan Terborg andI'm your solo host for today's
episode.
Really just an intro, becausewe're going to hold on.
I'm not actually solo, sorry,buddy.
I am here with my creativedirector, leo the dog.
He will likely not say much,but if he does, I will most
(00:34):
certainly put the mic on him,all right?
So today's episode, we'reactually going to share an
artist talk that was recorded atthe opening of my solo
exhibition at Gallery BenjaminEck in Munich just a few weeks
ago.
I've talked about this in thepod in a few previous episodes
as I've been preparing andgetting ready for it the last
few months and, if you'recurious, you can see actually a
(00:55):
full walkthrough of the showitself.
That we did on IG Live.
It's still on our Just Make ArtInstagram page.
That we did with Ty andBenjamin.
What's up, bud?
Nothing.
Okay, leo is going to remainsilent.
So the recording that I'm aboutto share is actually an
interview with Domenico DiCirico, who is a fantastic curator
(01:16):
from Milan, and this is actuallyone of two interviews that
we're going to be sharing.
The next one will be thefollowing week.
That's a separate sit down thatI did with Benjamin the
following day, but I want toshare a few quick thank yous
before we jump in.
First of all, to Benjamin, justfor the opportunity.
This is my first time showingin Europe and it was incredible.
It was everything that I hopedit would be, and then some.
(01:39):
I had a lot of challenges and alot of questions as far as how
it was all going to turn out,not the least of which was
shipping.
What ended up being?
What was it?
670 kilos, about 1,300, 1,400pounds worth of art in a single
crate across the ocean.
Everything arrived safely and Iespecially want to thank him
(01:59):
for allowing me to finish thefeature piece, which is a
triptych.
In fact, it's the one thatwe're sitting in front of, if
you're watching the video ofthis on uh on YouTube.
I also want to thank Domenicofor the thoughtful and thought
provoking questions.
He is tremendous at what hedoes.
He's an absolute professionaland also just a really just
quality and just lovely humanbeing.
(02:20):
I really enjoy getting a chanceto uh, to spend time with him
and get to know him before andafter the show.
I also want to thank everybodywho attended the opening.
Domenico's questions really gotme thinking and probably ended
up sharing a little bit morethan I had anticipated, but had
some really cool conversationswith everybody who was there,
both before and after the talk.
(02:40):
It was just a really, really,really fun event after the talk
and was just a really, really,really fun event.
So, lastly, I just want tothank Chris Fay, who did both
the video and audio for thisinterview.
We'll share the socials for allof the above if you want to go
check out their work and givethem a follow as well.
With that, here's the interview.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Hello guys, welcome to the opening show of Nathan
Turburg Laugh for Patterns.
So today my words are kind ofsmall and short because we have
prepared something special foryou and support from someone I
(03:22):
respect and share quite a fewsince years is Domenico
Littierico.
He's here for a talk withNathan Turberg.
I want to give the word tothese guys because it's much
more interesting to have thedeep insights of the artists and
of the professionals that isdoing this job for years.
(03:45):
Give it a big hand for theseguys and the next 20 minutes are
yours.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Thank you.
Thanks, benjamin, for invitingus and for having us here with
you, and professional respect ismutual, so we have mutually
decided to give thiscontribution by making this.
(04:11):
I prepared this questionnairefor Nathan just to give to us
the possibility to discover hispractice in this alternative way
, which is basically thisconversation between the two of
us.
So just thinking that we werebasically making this exhibition
(04:38):
in Germany, I went back to someof my interests, and one of
them is philosophy, and I wantedto ask this question, which is
the first one to Nathan, andit's the German word
Weltanschauung is slowlytranslated into worldview, but
(04:58):
its meaning is deeper and morenuanced.
It refers to a particularphilosophy or set of beliefs
that shapes how a person or agroup understands and interprets
the world, including values,culture, aesthetics and how one
perceives existence.
The world itself is a compoundof veld worlds and anschauung
(05:22):
view, perception or outlook.
Welt world and Anschauung view,perception or outlook.
So it literally means worldviewor world perception.
It often combines the idea of acomprehensive, overarching
perspective or ideology thatinfluences someone's thoughts
and actions.
In light of all of this, what'syour belt and shawl, nathan,
(05:47):
and is there any closeconnection with your artistic
practice?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I think that my practice is connected to my
worldview.
The way that I see the worldspecifically is I believe that
there is beauty in everything is.
I believe that there is beautyin everything, that every
material and, by extension,experience, even and sometimes
(06:14):
especially the most challengingones and difficult ones, have
the most potential for growth.
Forgotten ones, yes, and sothat speaks to the materiality
of when I am in the world,walking around.
I find most of the beauty inthings that are falling apart,
(06:36):
that are degrading.
One of the aestheticphilosophies that I really
appreciate I'm by no means ascholar on it, but it's that of
the Japanese philosophy ofwabi-sabi, which really speaks
to the beauty of impermanence,finding beauty in the small,
delicate things that wouldotherwise go unnoticed, and so a
(07:00):
big part of what I'm trying todo with my work, everything here
is made from found material, sothings that I have found while
walking around with my dog,things that I find sometimes in
the dumpster, things that I havedeveloped relationships with
different manufacturers orpeople in industry that produce
(07:21):
a lot of the same type of waste,and my goal is to hopefully
shine a light and highlight thebeauty that I see in all things.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
The second one is it is clear that, in terms of
artistic references, there arethree cornerstones that resonate
in your artistic practiceAlberto Burri, anselm Kiefer and
Mark Bradford and that's funnybecause actually I'm Italian as
Alberto Burri, anselm Kiefer isGerman, as the gallery owner,
(07:58):
benjamin, and Mark Bradford isfrom USA, as you are, so this is
not made on purpose, and so thequestion is what have you
absorbed from each one of them?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Let me start with Burry, because I think that he
described himself as apolymaterialist, that he
described himself as apolymaterialist and when I first
heard that, when I first readthat it makes complete sense
when you study his work, whenyou look at his practice.
There's not a lot of videoavailable of him making work,
(08:32):
but there's some, and I thinkI've found most of it so far.
But it was for him just what Ibelieve is a kinship in terms of
just an insatiable curiosity ofwhat can be done with material,
how material can be transformedfrom the ordinary, from the
mundane, from things that wouldotherwise be ignored, dismissed
(08:54):
or discarded, and trying to boilit down to its essential nature
.
And trying to boil it down toits essential nature.
For Kiefer, I think that Becareful.
I know, you know I'm not nervousat all, except for when I talk
about.
So, when you were introduced tothe conversation, when I was
(09:15):
talking to Benjamin, it's veryspecial for me to be able to be
here, to be showing work, youknow, in Kiefer's home country,
to have you be involved as acurator, as a countryman of
Burry, I think that for Kiefer Ijust it's hard, for it's much
more difficult for me to putinto words.
I think that for him what Ilove and appreciate is that
(09:41):
nothing is off limits.
And if you, when you look atthe broad spectrum of, of his
body of work, there's such, youknow, such diversity, such from,
you know from, I mean from thedresses to the lead airplane, to
you know, obviously, his, his,you know, work on wall.
It's in the scale, I would sayis something that I aspire to.
(10:03):
You know, when you watch, youknow, the documentary, the
videos, you see just the grandscale of his space.
I aspire to one day have astudio that requires a bike to
get from one point to another.
We'll see if I can get there atsome point.
But for Bradford, for mycountrymen, I would say that I
(10:24):
was at the Broad in Los Angeleslast year and I got a chance to
see a couple of his large-scalepieces, and Helter Skelter is
probably my favorite piece ofhis.
It's part of the permanentcollection there, but what I
love about standing in front ofa Bradford piece is that even
(10:46):
something that's of amagnificent scale the size of
this wall or bigger, it isperfect from far away and it's
perfect from up close.
There is something in everysquare inch that if you were to
crop it and set it aside on itsown, it tells its own part of
the story.
From a practical standpoint,what I really have applied in my
(11:09):
own work is the process ofreducing, of building up layers
and reducing them down.
There's something magical thathappens when different materials
are put together, when they getto know each other, and then
when they're removed, and sothis piece in particular, this
(11:30):
section specifically, was aproduct of building up layers
and then reducing them tearingit away, cutting, carving,
burning.
I want to thank Benjamin forgiving me the space and the
grace to do all this here.
This looked very different whenit arrived and I told him that
(11:50):
I had just a couple of littlechanges to do, and since then
I've spent probably 50 hourshere, right here, finishing this
and removing and exposing thelayers that I had built up in my
home studio and would you saythat eventually, what you got
from Burri, for example, is theuse, also metaphorically
(12:14):
speaking, of the fire, then fromBurri perhaps it could be the
color palettes, and fromBradford?
metaphorically speaking, alsothe idea of the scars.
I think one thing that Bradfordand Burry have in common
specifically is that that I'veapplied in my work is that most
(12:39):
of the color that they used wasinherent in the material or a
product of the process.
And that's true, for I don't.
I use some white paint a littlebit, but everything else, all
of the color and the tones, area product of the material and
the process.
And that to me, like if my aimis to get to the essential
(13:01):
nature of what something couldbecome, that to me is which is
unexpected, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
So next question is according to your artist
statements, you have declaredthat you like mixing and
combining different materials ina way that still looks and
feels like they were meant to betogether.
What is your definition oftogether, or, in other words,
ensemble?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think that my definition would be for material
to appear more organic than itreally is, more organic than it
really is.
When you walk in the naturalworld, when we're out in nature,
everything looks like itbelongs together because it grew
(13:52):
together, because it cametogether on its own without any
Harmoniously.
Yes, there it is, yes, that.
And so when it comes to thework, I think that there's
something about combiningdifferent materials that
otherwise never would haveinteracted with one another.
I cannot imagine a situation inlife where coffee filters and
(14:14):
feed bags and billboard tarpswould ever have a reason to get
together and billboard tarpswould ever have a reason to get
together.
So in trying differentcombinations of different
materials, I learn which onesget along and which ones don't,
and they both produce differentand sometimes interesting
results.
So a long answer to a shortquestion would be I want for the
(14:39):
, the work, the finished work,to look like it grew together in
nature.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Thank you.
Moreover, you are clearlydefined as an abstract artist
who works with discardedmaterials to breathe new life
into wood, metal and industrialwaste.
Ultimately, capturing thebeauty is in unexpected layers
and reminding us of theuniqueness of these forgotten
(15:08):
materials.
With every piece, it seems thatyou have the marvellous ability
to tell a story of resilience,renewal and the power of
creativity to transform livesand perspectives.
Where does all of this comefrom, and what is the core that
triggers such needs and what areyour perspectives?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
My belief is that scars have a specific type of
beauty, that experiences,whether it be personal or
process, produce a type ofpatina, a type of beauty, a type
(15:56):
of interest that wouldn't existany other way.
I think that really all of mywork is fundamentally about
transformation.
Without going too deep into mystory, I will share that.
A big part of my life and myworldview comes from being a
recovering addict and havingalmost lost my life to drugs and
(16:21):
having now been in recovery andsober for over 20 years and
being very involved in thatprocess with other people think
that, for me, finding the beautyin the ugliest experiences and
the power that those have to notjust get us to where we were,
but better.
My favorite people are the oneswho have been through some shit
(16:45):
, people that have, you know.
I don't know anyone's storyhere, really, but I know that
everyone here has been, has hadpain, has had loss, has had
trauma, has had experiences thatwe never would choose to go
through.
But because we went throughthem, because we came out the
other side, we're better for it,and so that's my personal view,
(17:09):
my personal experience and whatI try to communicate through my
work experience and what I tryto communicate through my work.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Getting back to the perspectives, do you believe?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
that your personal ones intersect with your
professionals.
Well, I should begin byanswering that with saying that
I don't feel like a professional, in that I don't have any real
interest in mastery, and what Imean by that is, I think that if
I have any gift, it's that ofcuriosity and just an insatiable
hunger for experience andknowledge.
(17:49):
And just what could that be?
What could we make?
So I'm always, you know, wewalked back from the hotel and I
was like look at this plywood.
No, look at it as though wewere in a museum, right, and
that, to me, is really informed.
You know my perspective.
So I approach everything that Ido, whether it's personally or
(18:11):
professionally, I try toapproach it with a beginner's
mind of how would I think aboutthis, how would I look about
this if I didn't know anything?
Because from that place,everything's possible.
When I approach things, when weapproach things as a
professional, I know what I'mdoing.
Things narrow real quickly, youknow.
(18:34):
The list of possibilities getsmuch, much shorter, and so, for
me, the way I approach my workis the same way that I approach
my life.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Okay, in one of our conversations, the importance of
music in your life came up.
How does this need formusicality manifest in your
artwork?
Is it perhaps related to time?
And finally, is time in yourartistic practice more rhythmic
or fluid?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I mean the goal, I think for I'm sure I know
there's some artists here thegoal is to always find a place
of flow, to find a place offluidity where everything is a
consequence of what came beforeit.
One thing that I find myselfsaying to myself, which I talk
to myself a lot in the studio,is everything leads to the next
(19:26):
thing, meaning that there are nomistakes.
My work I learned recently,realized recently is really a
product of me anguish and painthat I experienced if I didn't
(19:56):
get the hand just right or if Ididn't get the ear just perfect,
and so my process and the way Iwant to approach things is that
everything is a naturalconsequence of what came before.
So even when and it happensoften in the studio something
doesn't go right, it could besomething else.
Everything that I've figuredout and learned is a product of
something going wrong ordifferently than I thought it
(20:18):
would, and so I think a lotabout, from a rhythm standpoint.
Not so much can I control whathappens in the studio, I'm just
seeking out how can I create theright conditions that will lead
to something else.
Even if it's not this thing andoften it isn't right I think a
lot about everything that I dois not for the piece that's in
(20:41):
front of me, it's for thepractice holistically, and what
it will lead to in the future.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Okay, and did you ever think about?
It's like there's a difference,no, between living and existing
?
Did you ever think?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
about it.
Yeah, Now you got me reallythinking how deep do you want to
go?
I mean, that's a heavy question.
I think about you know, we allhave a certain amount of time.
You know, and I think a lotabout you know, when I'm working
.
What if this was the last thingI ever got a chance to make?
Yes, and not in a morose ormorbid way, but in a sort of you
(21:21):
know, lamenta mori, you know,stoic, remember your death, and
it's coming for all of us atsome point.
So I think a lot about the ideaof not saving anything.
There was a time when I wouldlike save my good ideas for the
best time and I just stoppeddoing that because I don't we
don't know when the best time,you know, is going to be.
(21:41):
So I really try to poureverything that I have into
everything that I'm doing, and Ihave found that that has been
the best way to accelerate myprogression.
The thing I'm most excitedabout is what's next?
Always yes, yeah, While stilltrying to be where my feet are
planted.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yes, yeah, and last question is, at least from my
side, is finally.
So, based on what criteria didyou build this exhibition?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I kind of already spoke to that.
I think, really transformation.
Really, I wanted to try andtell the story of all of the
materials that I've used and Ithink that certainly my favorite
materials are represented.
You know, in some of theseworks I can connect the dots
between different pieces.
There's a lot of differentthings that appear, sometimes
(22:35):
very small, sometimes moreobvious in different things.
But to the title of the show,it really has been both a love
letter to layers but also myattempt to tell the story.
I want to give material a voice.
I want to give something that'sbeen discarded, that's been set
aside, that would be ignored,that would be trash, and I want
to try and give material a voice.
I want to give something that'sbeen discarded, that's been set
(22:55):
aside, that would be ignored,that would be trash, and I want
to try and give it a voice.
I want to try to say, hey, lookat this, this too has beauty,
and so I think that's what I tryto do.
Yes, thank you, nathan.
Thank you.
Appreciate it, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
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