November 14, 2024 • 57 mins
Could social media be the key to unlocking an artist's full potential? Join us for a special episode of Just Make Art as VIsionary Projects co-founder Blayne Planit sits down with our Ty Nathan Clark, to uncover the transformative power of digital platforms in the art world. Ty takes us through his journey, enriched by family influences and global experiences, demonstrating how modern tools like Instagram have become critical in building connections and expanding an artist's reach. With tales of unexpected opportunities and strategic self-promotion, Ty's insights reveal the intricate dance between digital presence and artistic success.
Through Ty's story, we navigate the delicate balance between studio work and networking, offering emerging artists a blueprint for transitioning from group exhibitions to the coveted solo show. Ty shares invaluable strategies for engaging with galleries, emphasizing the necessity of quality content and thoughtful interactions on social media. The conversation explores how persistence and a proactive approach can lead to significant breakthroughs, illustrating Instagram's role as an indispensable ally in an artist’s career path.
As we close this enriching episode, Ty leaves us with a powerful message about the enduring impact of mentorship and collaboration. He discusses his commitment to nurturing emerging talents through his mentorship program, underscoring the importance of fostering a supportive community. By sharing personal anecdotes of growth and the triumphs achieved through partnership, Ty inspires artists to embrace each opportunity as a chance to learn and evolve, ultimately crafting a dynamic and accessible art world for all.
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@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
so we are super excited to um introduce ty um
all.
For those of you who um mightnot know who ty is, he has been
a tableau member for almost overI think a bit over a year now,
um, and he's also an incrediblytalented um multidisciplinary
artist, um, and he's also theincredibly talented um
(00:23):
multidisciplinary artist, um,and he's also the co-host of a
podcast called just make artpodcast.
He also does many other, hasmany other endeavors, uh, which
he will share himself Um.
But yeah, thank you so much, ty, for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, I'm, I'm so excited, so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Amazing.
So we're going to have a chatand we're going to learn a bit
more about the business of beingan artist, so thanks so much
for being with us here tonight.
I was thinking I could readyour very long bio to everyone,
but I thought it would just begreat to pass it to you, for you
to kick off by just likeintroducing yourself a bit more
and sharing a bit more in depth,like a bit more of an overview
(01:05):
of who you are, what you do,which will help give more
context as I ask you, as I askyou questions throughout the
evening.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely yeah.
So I'm a multidisciplinaryartist in Waco, texas, a small
town in between Dallas andAustin.
I will be back in Austin,coming up pretty soon here, as
soon as we find a place to moveback to Austin.
That's where we were before andso I have been making art since
I can remember.
I grew up in a family that wasreally surrounded by art,
(01:36):
because my uncle was aworld-renowned Raku artist and
sculptor and a professor at UCSBin Santa Barbara in ceramics,
and so I've always just beenaround it and have this passion
for it ceramics and so I'vealways just been around it and
have this passion for it.
And through my lifetime I'vetraveled all over the world and
lived in multiple countries.
I've been on five continentsliving and learning and studying
and playing and doing all kindsof stuff, and just that ability
(01:59):
to be in other cultures andlearn from other cultures and
eat different foods and smelldifferent smells just has
absolutely inspired so muchwithin my work, and I have also
worked in film.
I've also written a novel and Iwrite as well.
I grew up learning that from mygrandfather, as well as art, and
, like Blaine said, I have apodcast that is for you all, for
(02:22):
beginning and emerging artistswith one of my former mentees
from an artist mentorshipprogram that I have, where I
have worked with 62 artists nowfrom 21 countries around the
world in my program and myco-host is now one of my best
friends and was a former studentin my program, so definitely
check it out.
I think you'll get a lot ofmeat from it.
(02:42):
I really do.
We do it for what we're talkingabout today just that struggle
of being an artist and trying toget your work somewhere and
trying to grow in your work andstuff.
So I've studied under somegreat mentors, including one of
my professors in college,american sculptor William
Catling, and the JapaneseAmerican artist, makoto Fujimura
(03:04):
, who's out of New Jersey andNew York, and honestly, I just
love being involved in cultureand community and any type of
issues that surround the arts.
So I always try to place myselfin arenas to be in the mix.
That's why I'm in Visionary andTableau all the way from Waco,
texas, so I can be in the mixwith artists from all over the
world, and so I currently workhere in Waco.
(03:25):
My wife is here with me.
I have my little puppy we don'thave kids Just had my 50th
birthday two weeks ago and Ican't believe that I'm halfway
through life and I have work allover the US.
So I've got dealers andgalleries that I've worked with
and interior designers andthings over the years and I'm
(03:46):
excited to kind of share thatjourney and how I got to those
moments too today.
So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Amazing, I feel like you like tie that up so nicely
because you do so much.
Um, I knew it would soundbetter coming from you and happy
belated birthday.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm also a Libra, so we're, we're, we're in it
together.
Um, cool, so um, I would loveto know did you always have a
vision for who you wanted to beand like where you wanted to be,
or has it been more organic,the way that it's all unfolded
for you after over the past manyyears?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
That's such a great question.
That's something that Iencourage everybody that's on
here to journal about latertonight.
Such a good question, Justthinking back on those things
and how you got to today.
I always had a goal and a focus, and I think that was because
of my uncle.
Art was always around in SantaBarbara at my grandparents'
house and at my uncle's housethere, and so I was surrounded
(04:48):
by it and my grandfather wouldalways teach me about the
legends of art history and thelegends of poetry and literature
, and he would read to me and hewould discuss these things with
me and he would tell me aboutthe great art friendships like
Van Gogh and Gauguin, and he'dteach me about the beehive and
the impressionists, and all Iwanted to do was be that the
(05:11):
books that he would have on mylap that I have today, all the
big coffee table books from theMet and Smithsonian and MoMA all
these they're all on mybookshelf today, and so I always
had that dream of that's what Iwanted to do, and so my parents
always had stuff clay andwatercolors and paints and
things for my brothers and I andwe always just played with art,
(05:31):
and then in high school I had Ican probably feel like I had
the best art teachers known tome Toby, Mario and Kim, who are
still dear friends today, allthe way back in Northern
California.
I keep in touch with them.
I saw them a few years back atmy 30th reunion and we spent an
entire day together and theyjust inspired and pushed me in a
(05:52):
way that gave me so muchconfidence that I can do this.
So then I got a basketballscholarship to college and
studied art there at the artschool, and that was my goal
let's get through school andlet's do art.
And then, after school is out,I went.
What the fuck do I do?
I think anybody that's been toart school or not.
(06:13):
Art school that's the firstthing that happens.
The door's shut, you walk outand you go.
Okay, well, thanks for teachingme nothing.
Thanks for not telling me howto do this.
Thanks for teaching me nothing.
Thanks for not telling me howto do this.
And so I did everything onGod's green earth you could
imagine from working in retail,managing retail, started a
fashion brand and outdoor brand,did all these different things,
(06:36):
worked in marketing and PR andall these things to finally get
to the point when, 10 years agoI could go full-time as an
artist.
So that's kind of like my goalhas been laser focused.
I wrote a list when I was 10years old of all the goals I
have to accomplish and it had bein art galleries, have a museum
show, have a coffee table booklike the ones at grandpa's, like
(06:59):
it.
Had that list and so I'veslowly been checking that list
off over the last 50 years.
Had that list and so I'veslowly been checking that list
off over the last 50 years.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So that's incredible and that's so inspiring.
I don't think, like I feel likemost 10 year olds, like even if
they did write that, like writedown what they saw for
themselves, it might not be, itmight it would change a lot over
the course of years.
So I think it's reallyincredible when people find
their purpose so young.
Um, it's really inspiring.
Um, that's so special.
(07:28):
Um.
I'm curious like how well,first of all, those are like
incredible accomplishments.
Um, so congrats.
Um.
I'm curious, like how did youuh get started selling your
artwork?
Um, and like how old were youwhen you made your first sale?
And like when did you realizethat you could sell the artwork
(07:50):
that you're making?
Like how did it?
When did it like materialize ina real way for you?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, so once I left art school in 99, I was, you
know, working retail andscrapping and doing the things
and artists would do, and I waspainting on a back porch that if
I left stuff out in the rain itgot wet and got ruined in a
little teeny apartment, you know.
And I ended up randomly, when Ileft California to move to
Texas, I had a couple employeesin the retail world that were at
(08:18):
University of North Texasdrawing and painting program and
so we would get together andhang out and paint and they were
in.
If you don't know, universityof North Texas is one of the top
drawing and painting programsin the country.
Usually at times we'll goflip-flop with with Yale that's
how impressive the program is.
They're in Denton, texas, andso they obviously had very big
(08:39):
professors who were major in theart world.
And so I feel like that dreamof I'm just trying to do stuff.
Well, all of a sudden I waskind of back in that art school
mindset again.
If I'm going for this, I'mdoing this.
So we started doing our ownshows.
We literally would go, we'dfind a barn in the middle of
Denton Texas and ask the ownerif we could clean it out and do
a show and we would set up allof our work and invite our
(09:00):
friends and the art program andart professors and we just
started doing our own shows.
We didn't sell anything, but itwas like this momentum started
to build and the dream startedto get really real and then we
did a pop-up exhibition in 2009.
So this is fast forwarding at alarge lofts in Dallas, texas,
that was a fundraiser for anonprofit and we gathered, I
(09:23):
think, 60 artists andphotographers that we knew and
cleaned out probably an 8,000square foot basement of these
lofts and did a big show and Isold my first major piece in
that show and I remember my wifewas so mad at me because I
negotiated with the guy and henegotiated me down so low, but I
(09:43):
was so excited to get moneythere because he lived there
that I sold the piece for not alot of money, but to me it felt
like such an incredibletransaction, not just for art
but for my art career.
It was like a transaction oflike.
I just took a step here.
I negotiated a sale in a spacethat we set up and the guy lived
(10:04):
upstairs, so I got to go upthere afterwards and put it on
his wall.
I mean, it was magic and it'sjust as those.
You know, we all have thosemoments kind of in our story
that are just these like boom,boom, boom and we can just cross
those lines and those dots tothings that give us that next
big jump.
And so it was 2009 at the loveevent in Dallas.
(10:25):
Wow, that's after I saw yourquestions, I had to go back on
Facebook and go back to littleshows and stuff to figure out
the date.
So that was fun.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Had you ever sold anything on like a way smaller
scale prior?
I was just curious for, like,even during art school, like,
did you have any transactions,or was it?
Or did you do any like artswaps or was it just more
focused on like creating until?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
swaps.
You know what I mean.
I feel like I did a lot ofswaps or like gave people pieces
or things.
I don't even think I had thefirst clue, honestly, to what it
meant to sell a piece of art oreven price my work at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Right Interesting Um, and so I know that you were
really inspired I think you alsomentioned this by your uncle,
um Conway, Jiggs Pearson.
Um, so in what ways do youthink that, like he shaped the
way you view art and business?
Um, and the way that you know,make that that you've approached
(11:24):
like making a name for yourselfand building your career in
this industry, and I'm curiousif he, yeah, like what guidance
he gave you in general?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So he passed when I was 10 years old Wow, he was 28
years older than my mom.
Okay, so he passed, and so allI have are these random memories
of him that aren't really verydeep relationally but they were
very deep on like a hero level,like impact, impact.
(11:56):
He, okay, he was yourquintessential ceramicist, right
, dirty jeans that had clay inthem all the time, clay under
his fingernails, big white beardoveralls, that kind of
unbuttoned long sleeve shirt,you know that would be kind of
rolled up so he fit this moldright.
If, like, if, I see a pictureof Monet in his garden, it's
(12:17):
like that's my uncle Jiggs, youknow, had that kind of feel and
so.
But his work was everywhere andI mean I have a show poster
here in my office sitting on thewall that is kind of just an
encouragement for me, but it'sjust a show poster from a show
of his in Osaka, japan.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And so that's just those things were present at my
grandparents' house, at myaunt's house, and he had a kiln
in the backyard when he won anaward from the National
Endowments of the Arts Artist ofthe Year, I think, in 69.
They bought him a kiln the NEAdid and so it was in his
backyard.
So there's all this thingsgoing on that I was, so I knew
(12:58):
it was possible, that's what itgave me.
I didn't get to learn thebusiness side, I got to learn
that's something that isreachable and attainable and
possible and that's what itreally taught me I can do this.
And I think that really hit mewhen I was older.
Right, Really needed that fireor that.
Something to help in thosemoments of resistance and
(13:21):
frustration and confusion waslike I know it's possible.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Um, could you share someinsights on how you land
opportunities for yourself as anartist?
Yes, I mean, it sounds likeyou're very self-motivated and
created your own opportunitiesfrom the start.
Um, so I'd be curious on, like,how you built from there.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Absolutely.
I just did a collector's talklast night at a small museum.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I saw that I was talking about this last night.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Instagram Instagram Instagram.
Instagram Instagram.
This is beautiful.
This is a beautiful thing thatyou know.
I had a pretty big network onMySpace.
For those of you who are oldenough to remember MySpace, that
was made up of artists.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I loved MySpace, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
That was artists and musicians that I built there.
I mean, random people is thegreatest thing in the world.
I can talk to an artist inSpain, what?
And then, when MySpace died,that all kind of transferred to
Facebook, that network.
We all kind of got together onFacebook and then that all
migrated to Instagram.
And then, literally in 2010,when Instagram started, I
(14:30):
started following Heather Day.
She is the experiment on how tobe successful in social media.
She's the first artist toexplode, career wise because of
social media and at that time,my Instagram was that normal
Instagram page pictures of wineat dinner, trips, sunsets, my
feet at the pool, right, likeall that stuff back then.
(14:51):
But I was following her and Iwas going.
She's exploding.
I was following her onInstagram, but then everywhere
else where her shows were, whereshe was popping up and I was
going.
So in 2011, I changedeverything.
I deleted my whole feed and Ijust started doing everything
that Heather was doing processphotos, talking about the work,
videos of me in the studio and,honestly, that just brought a
(15:15):
flood.
I just happened to be reallyfortunate at the time when
Instagram still grew organically, right, and I followed somebody
that nailed exactly whatartists need to do and, like I
tell artists all the time, don'tcare about growing your numbers
, care about the quality of whatyou're putting in your feed,
(15:36):
your work, your process, bevulnerable, talk about stuff.
Somebody is probably watchingyou and the art world watches
but and they don't follow.
They don't click follow, theywatch, they don't click follow,
they don't click like they watchand they watch and they watch
and they watch.
And then they send an email andit's usually pretty short.
(15:59):
If you've read Get the Pictureby Bianca Bosker you get some
moments from Bianca where shesays, yeah, the art world sends
really short emails so they cansound like they're really,
really busy.
So if you ever get a reallylong email from somebody, it's
probably a vanity gallery.
Just so you know, the artworld's really short and
(16:19):
sometimes they only do theydon't even do a body email, they
just do a subject line.
So it's pretty funny.
That is funny.
That's really how everythingcame for me was through
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And could you elaborate a little more Like, if
you remember maybe the firstopportunity that came through
Instagram and maybe most, maybethe oldest memory you have for
and maybe the most recent, andwere these?
Can you expand on what type ofopportunities they were as well?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah.
So I'll do three.
I'll talk about one that wasgreat, one that didn't pan out,
another one that's really great.
So I got a.
Got an email one day this is, Iforget what year it was, and it
was a gallery in North Carolina.
Hey, been following yourInstagram for a while.
Love to talk to you about doinga solo show.
Had not had a solo show, onlygroup shows and juried shows and
(17:11):
things like that Nothing majorat all.
And I mean, this is probablyeight years ago and I was like
what?
So got on the phone, hopped on,had a great conversation, set
up a solo show for the followingyear in Charlotte, north
Carolina, and it was literallyshe'd been following me for, I
think, six or eight months orsomething, maybe a year, and
then finally just sent an email.
Was not following me, followingme Okay, we're talking just
(17:32):
watching, having your name on alist and having the interns or
the gallery assistant keep trackof things and then eventually,
if they feel like you're a greatfit, sending that email.
So that happened from Instagram.
And then one day I got a randomemail when I was at a friend's
house.
It was literally a subject lineand it said send me a catalog,
(17:56):
no body text or anything.
And then the name said StefanSimkowitz and I went I don't
even know who this is.
And so I looked it up.
Do your research.
Anytime you get a random emailfrom somebody, search their
email address, search their name.
Do a deep dive before you reply, as we get a lot of spam, us
artists a lot, um and all thefirst thing that came up was the
(18:17):
cover of art forum, uh, and abunch of other magazines with
him on the cover as the anti artworld gallerist.
And so I went okay, this islegit.
I sent a catalog, didn't hearback.
Right, that's the oh man.
Oh, did he get it?
Did it go through?
That's a that even.
Oh, my gosh.
So then, finally, a week later,I said hey, did you get my
(18:39):
catalog?
Just want to make sure I canresend if I need to.
And it responded back.
I did Thanks, just want to makesure I can resend if I need to.
And he responded back I didThanks, not for me right now,
that was it, but that taught mesomething.
I'm doing something right.
If he found me Right, I'm doingsomething right If somehow he
discovered me on Instagram andsent me a message, whether he
(19:00):
wanted it or not.
The art world said I want tosend this guy an email.
The third one that happened justlike Simkowitz.
I got a random email one dayand it said hey, ty, I'd love to
see your work.
Johnny Wolf I have no idea whothis is, so I went to his
website, look him up.
He's an art dealer and acurator in LA.
(19:21):
He's been on the board at LACMA.
He also deals in secondary artBasquiat, rothko, lots of big
art and I thought, oh, it'sgoing to be just like Simkowitz.
So I sent him a catalog.
I don't hear back for a monthand then finally, a month later,
I hear back hey, ty, I want tocommission your entire catalog.
I went that's like 80 worksthat I sent him.
(19:47):
That's insane.
It was for six months and atfirst I was like oh, what then?
What do I do?
And I went oh, this is good,that means I have to make a lot
more new months.
Didn't hear a thing for a year,didn't respond to emails,
(20:10):
contract was up Every few months.
I would say hey, do you want torenew the contract?
What do you want to do?
Nothing for a year.
Almost a year later, I get anemail that says hey, ty, I need
these five pieces.
I just sold them to a client inNew Zealand and it was newer
work that was not in the catalog, because what I would do is
still in his Dropbox folder,update the catalog that was in
(20:32):
there.
Even though he wasn't responding, I continued to update my
catalog with new work and drop anew catalog in the Dropbox that
he had for the old one.
And he sold five works to aclient in New Zealand major sale
and they were between six feetand five and five foot pieces,
so larger works as well.
And that has been probably mysecond best relationship I've
(20:57):
ever had in the art world.
Same with my dealer in Houstonsame thing, but this one.
I took initiative.
She I saw that it was a newdealer in Houston that was
representing a few friends.
So I sent a direct message andsaid hey, I've got some friends
that look like are working withyou.
If you're looking to addanybody new to your roster, I'd
love to have a conversation.
She responded back Can we talktoday?
(21:18):
She sold more work for me inthe last five years than anybody
that ever has, so those are allthrough Instagram.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So the galleries that currentlyrepresent you did you make
those connections throughInstagram as well?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
All Instagram.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Wow, and so there's a mix, like a lot of them you had
reached out to.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I have reached out to some.
I court them very intelligently.
So if there's a gal, I have alist of galleries on a
spreadsheet and they're allsegmented from galleries I fit
in galleries who have peopleI've shown with some of the
galleries I fit in that I havemy dream galleries, right the
white cubes, this Werner's, theschnob, beto Schnabel's, all
(22:02):
those dream ones, right, theMcNerney's.
But I court the ones on.
The ones I fit in that aren'tbig.
I may feel like I fit inZwirner at times, but I know I
don't, but you know what I mean.
But those ones that I know Ifit in, I will court them on
Instagram.
I will like every single postthey have.
I will comment on the newexhibitions.
I will comment on work I reallylove, but not emojis.
(22:26):
I really give a critics type ofresponse to the work and how
powerful it is and how I like it.
And then I wait.
If they engage me, I feel likethey just extended the hand for
a relationship to begin and thenI'll take it to a DM after that
and engage Usually with.
If I'm in New York, I'd love tocome by and bring your staff
(22:46):
coffees and just say hello,things like that I'm going to be
in LA next week.
I'd love to stop in and I'mletting them know I'm coming, so
that when I'm there they go ohTy, wow, it's great to see you
here.
Or, if they don't remember, ohyeah, I was chatting with the
so-and-so on Instagram last week, those types of things, but, um
, but I'm very, very smart andintelligent about it and I am
(23:08):
very patient with it too.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, amazing.
What advice would you give toartists that are just starting
out, or artists who haveexperience being exhibited in
group exhibitions but arewanting to have solo shows and
representation?
Like what would be some of your, your best advice there?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah.
So, man, make that list.
I'm telling you right now, ifyou don't make a spreadsheet or
a list, you're going to forgetthe ones that are a little more
off the grid than you wouldnormally remember.
We come across galleries onInstagram and things all the
time.
I use artsy for my research.
So I'll go on artsy in thegallery section and I'll type in
Dallas, texas, in the gallerysection and I'll go look at all
(23:50):
the galleries in Dallas and thenI'll go through all the
galleries and I'll look to seeif there's any artists I've
shown with before.
But I also look at the work.
If they have prices up onARCSEA, I look at their price
points too, because that'll alsogive you a really good working
knowledge of if you fit or not.
If your work is averagingaround $5,000 and most of the
work in this galleries at 15,you got a few years to get there
(24:13):
.
Even if your work is a strongright now, you might have a
little more time to get there.
Um, so I make that list and thenI go.
I don't get to go to as much,but if you're in an area where
you can go, go to every singleopening you can go to make
yourself seen, make yourselfknown, even if you're a fly on
the wall, even if you're sointroverted that this is the
(24:34):
most awkward and hard thing inthe world to do.
Just go grab a drink and standin the corner.
Somebody will remember you andsomebody will say hello at some
point.
Because if you want to beinteresting, you have to be
interested.
Because if you want to beinteresting, you have to be
interested.
Everything in the art world isfor selfish reasons, but if
(24:56):
you're really interested and youwant to build that relationship
and be in that place, go toeverything and be seen and be
known, give interest in whatthey're doing, people will
respond back.
And then, honestly, instagramoh, I can't tell you be really
intelligent with your feed.
Your descriptions now are justas important as hashtags and the
(25:18):
image that you share.
The Instagram algorithm crawlsyour description as much as it
does everything else.
Now I had a call with Instagrama few months ago discussing all
the new algorithm things andstuff coming out and they were
saying man, multiple images andvideos in one feed and being
able to have a really wellwritten description for what
(25:41):
you're posting.
Words right.
Abstract art, figurative art,art galleries Put those things
in your post, right, it'll becrawled.
Who knows who's watching now?
Abstract art, figurative art,art galleries Put those things
in your post, right, it'll becrawled.
Who knows who's watching?
Now people go to hashtags andlook for things.
Gallerists crawl throughabstract art hashtag and just do
(26:01):
a crawl and if something piquestheir interest they look.
So put up.
Talk about stuff.
You don't have to post every day.
You can do three days a week's,fine.
You don't have to post everyday.
You can do three days a week's,fine.
You don't have to do seven daysa week, like you used to.
But make sure your work looksgood in your photos.
Don't put up really dark,crappy photos.
That's a turnoff.
Make sure your work is reallyhighlighted beautifully.
(26:24):
As an example, one of my formermentees is the co-host on my
podcast got an email a fewmonths ago from a gallerist in
Munich.
Nathan, I've been following youfor a year.
I follow your journey almostweekly.
It's been so impressivewatching you grow Note that,
watching you grow over time andwe want to take a chance on you
(26:46):
before the art world finds you.
Want to take a chance on youbefore the art world finds you.
This is a massive mid-careergallery in Munich.
He's had two tiny little soloshows.
In Denver with a new openingstartup gallery.
He has a two-person show withKit King, who is one of the
largest female internationalartists in the world.
She is insane.
(27:07):
It's the Benjamin at gallery.
He has a two person show forhis first major exhibition in
Munich, all because somebody wasfollowing his Instagram feed.
That's insane.
And then I have another artistin Spain, moxonanda, who was
just featured.
He hadn't had a show yet.
(27:27):
Before my mentorship program wereally worked on confidence,
building confidence.
He worked on his work for ayear and then just started going
into galleries and asking if hecould have an exhibition boldly
.
That's a little more acceptablein Spain than it is in the US,
so I do not advise that in theStates, but in Spain that is
something that is moreacceptable to go in and pitch
yourself to a gallerist.
(27:48):
And he's had multiple shows andwas just featured on arts
artsies new global curation listof 200 artists.
Today that's within two years.
I'll talk about how to getthere in a little bit when you
do something else, but that wasreally just building out
Instagram, working hard on hiswork and then being bold enough
(28:11):
to go out and pitch his workbecause he was confident in it.
Now, that's the other key Ifyou're not confident in your
work, don't go push it out there, yet Somebody will spell
non-confidence on you prettyeasily, pretty quickly pretty
(28:33):
quickly.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That's all such incredible information, thank
you.
What do you think the mostimportant things are that an
artist needs to do in order tocreate a strong foundation for a
long-term career as a sellingartist?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, I love this question because one of my
favorite quotes from Hippocratesin 430 BC that was kind of
translated a little different isart is long, life is short,
experience is treacherous.
Right, I mean, that's the lifeof an artist, right, time,
(29:06):
patience, the work is number one.
The work is by far and awaynumber one.
You have to be putting the timein that you have.
Most of us all work, have sidejobs, have patron type things,
like my mentorship program.
Some of us have two or threejobs.
The time you have to make work,you're going to have to make
(29:28):
sacrifices in life to make work,and a lot of it.
Right, you've got to spend thattime.
Next to work.
The network is number two.
You've got to build a network.
You've got to go to shows andif you're in a place that is so
far away from the art world, useInstagram to build that network
.
Reach out to artists that youhave things in common with.
(29:50):
Why are we all here?
Right, with Tableau andVisionary Projects?
Right, we're all hoping forthat network.
Connect to the artists withinthe network.
Do things together, talktogether, look and listen at
lots of work.
Read books, listen to podcasts,study art history, go to
(30:18):
freaking museums and galleries.
Why?
Because that is going to teachyou more about your work than
you being in the studio everyday.
All the things you're going tolearn from going to museums and
galleries and looking at workyou love and looking at work you
hate.
When you come back to thestudio, your brain is going to
go from here to here.
Now, all of the ghosts of thoseartists are going to be
(30:41):
whispering in your ear aboutdepth and composition and
texture and color and all thosethings, things you can't learn
on your own, things you needpeople whispering to you about.
And why do I say read and study?
Because every artist in historyhas been exactly where you are
at some point in their life.
There are no superheroes in theart world.
(31:01):
They're all regular humanbeings, just like us, who worked
their butts off, sacrificed,like us who worked their butts
off, sacrificed and had a lot ofluck as well.
So study, study, study.
Because in the moments whenyou're like ready to throw the
towel, in which I have been manytimes, you hear Joan Mitchell
(31:22):
in your ear, or you hear JoanMiro in your ear, or you hear
Burt Morissette in your earsaying I was there when I was 30
.
I was there when I was 40.
I almost quit but I kept goingand I know it because I read it
and I heard him say it, and sothen you have that confidence.
I'm reading de Kooning'sbiography right now.
De Kooning didn't have hisfirst major show until 46 years
(31:44):
old.
Then he didn't sell his firstmajor works until 51.
Willem de Kooning, like, thinkabout that, somebody you see in
a museum wall that you justassume had that Midas touch and
was probably everywhere in their20s.
You know, no, it took him thatlong to get there.
Art takes time.
(32:05):
I don't even know if I answeredthe question.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Crossed it, the work, the network, study look and
listen and those are the mostimportant things that an artist
needs to do in order to create astrong foundation for a
long-term career?
Absolutely yes.
I'm curious about somechallenges that you faced as an
artist over the years and, likein what ways you've grown from
(32:31):
those challenges.
I mean I think overall itsounds like I mean we all know
there's many challenges, but ifthere's anything to pinpoint
specifically that maybe had likea bigger learning, curve.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I'm an art.
I'm a purist.
I'm an art to make thestrongest work I can make in my
lifetime.
If I sell work in that processI'm really freaking excited and
my wife is really excited too.
But I'm not in it to sell work.
I I I'm in it for the thingsthat I learned from my
grandfather when I was young.
(33:05):
If I can make work my whole lifeand put a lot of time into it,
if I can make work my whole lifeand put a lot of time into it,
if I can take risks and trustthe process, I am 100% confident
that by the end of my lifetimeI might have work that lasts in
a museum.
That's why I'm in it.
(33:26):
So that means I have to evolveconstantly, I have to take risks
, I have to change.
I have to be constantly tryingnew things.
That doesn't mean every day.
That means I do a body of workfor four months or six months or
eight months and then I'velearned that that body of work
is teaching me about what isnext.
I'm leaving these unraveledthreads in my work that is
(33:48):
leading me to something down theroad that may be so risk taking
that I have a show in Houston.
This is a real story.
Such a big risk to trysomething new.
And then I have a solo show inHouston with all that work and I
don't sell one piece in thatshow, right.
And then I come back to thestudio and I go.
(34:11):
I just wasted five months of mylife.
Why am I doing so?
I let myself have a day beforeI move on and I bitch and I moan
and I complain and I look ateverything.
And why are you doing this?
Oh my gosh, you spent so muchmoney.
You rented the truck to get thework down there, but that
entire body of work two bodiesof work later helped me create
(34:33):
some of my strongest work.
If I hadn't have taken thattime and that energy to just
follow these threads somewhere,it wouldn't have taught me where
that next conceptual leap camefrom.
So my biggest challenge isalways lying taking those
moments of risk.
That might set me back a while,but knowing the rewards are
(34:57):
going to be far greater if I'mpatient and keep pushing through
and working.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Absolutely, Definitely.
And on the flip side, what is aproud moment that you've had in
your career and how did youmake it possible for yourself?
Yeah, probably throughInstagram, but um, actually is
not, so this one.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I had a museum exhibition last year with my
best friend, uh VietnameseAmerican female artist in Austin
, Texas, Vino, who is also achief of medicine at a hospital.
She's a complete badass.
So every time I think like Ihaven't been making enough work.
I'm like, well, V doesn't haveas much time as me, so I need to
.
You know what I mean.
I need to pick it up If she canmake work doing that also,
(35:43):
being a single mom with two kids, I can do everything I can to
make a shit ton of workregularly.
Sounds like a superhero.
I can do everything I can tomake a shit ton of work
regularly.
Sounds like a superhero.
He is an absolute superhero.
We had a two-person exhibitionlast year.
That was a dream.
To be able to have anexhibition with one of your best
friends in the world that youknow the work will speak
together was such a beautifulmoment.
(36:04):
This is at our small museum inWaco that has a new, incredible
building with three separategalleries within the space and a
really large installation areain the back.
So we filled the whole thing.
I think we had 23 works each.
I had sculptures and paintingsand then we each had a very
(36:24):
large installation in the backas well and I've gotten to know
some of the board when we firstmoved to Waco nine years ago but
they had a little space at thecommunity college back then but
they since did a major fundraiseand built the actual museum
property.
That is beautiful and I helpedget a few female friends on the
(36:46):
board, because it was a prettyheavily seated male board and
nobody really knew art on theboard Small town, they're
businessmen.
They had no direction.
It was a mess.
And I got a young sculptor,Morgan Earing, who's a dear
friend, on the board and I gotmy best friend here.
Dr Jane Dameron, who curates alot of my shows, is now the
(37:08):
board chair.
Dr Jane Dameron, who curates alot of my shows, is now the
board chair, and so they werekey in helping make sure they
had me on the calendar for ashow in an upcoming year, and so
I also had them co-curate theshow so that they could also
have that on their resume ascurators of a museum exhibition.
So that's probably for me, thatis an absolute career highlight
for me.
Yeah, it sounds incredible.
There were plenty of tears,I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
So that's probably for me that is an absolute
career highlight for me.
Yeah, it sounds incredible,plenty of tears, I'll.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, that sounds really special.
Um, so we yeah, we still havesome time.
Um, a lot of artists, as youknow, are really intimidated by
the idea of marketing themselves, and you also touched on
confidence super briefly and Ithought it was really
(37:55):
interesting what you said.
Maybe we could chat about thatfor a bit, because I'd love to
hear any advice you might have,because, even through this
conversation and pretty muchevery single person I've been
doing this for over a year thatwe have on as our guests, like
even when Haley and I are doingpanels, like whatever we're
doing, anytime we're speaking toanyone in the art world, no
(38:16):
matter where they sit, instagramcomes up.
So and yeah, it's a big focusalso for us and when we have our
incubator, et cetera.
So, yeah, we'd just love tohear specifically your thoughts
and maybe words of wisdom forhow to get started, or maybe
some advice.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I mean, listen, you are all doing this because you
love it so much and it is a partof you.
You cannot escape it.
You are doing this because youcannot escape it.
It's a part of your soul.
You are doing this because youcannot escape it.
(39:05):
It's a part of your soul.
It's a part of your creativebeing, your created being.
This is in you, this is part ofyou.
I know I'm extroverted, but I'ma forced introvert, right?
Because you know why you do it.
You know how much you love it.
You have an absolute confidencein making your work.
That's why you're still makingit.
That's why you haven't thrownin the towel, you haven't given
up.
You spend money you could spendon rent and food and bills to
buy art supplies and things,because you can't escape this
(39:27):
feeling inside.
That is confidence.
That is a confidence that youcan exude in the moments where
you're very afraid and you'revery scared.
Jerry Salt says it best whenthe demons arise in the middle
of the night, sit up, say outloud I'm a fucking genius, I
know this.
(39:48):
Instagram is a great place topractice that confidence.
Because you're not in front ofpeople, you're not on the panel
in front of a crowd, you're notat the show with somebody asking
you questions.
There's still a wall there.
Practice being vulnerable andtalking about your art on
instagram.
This is a great place topractice so that when you have
(40:09):
the opportunity, when you have ashow and a group show and the
gallerist says, hey, we'd loveto do a lecture, does anybody
want to be a part of it?
You're the first person toraise your hand.
What will separate an artistfrom other artists in a wall?
And a gallerist's mind is theone that is always willing to do
the extra thing for thatgallery.
Most artists are introvertedand the hands don't go up.
(40:33):
I had to teach myself how toreally be confident and speak.
Even though I'm an extrovert,you're still talking about your
work, right?
You're still sitting naked infront of the audience with your
work on the wall.
So if you can practice onInstagram and then take that
boldness and confidence to themoments when you do speak
because I'm speaking this rightinto fruition for all of you, I
(40:56):
hope that you all have thatopportunity to give a little 10
minute talk about your work ordo an Instagram live with a
friend right now, next week.
Great place to practice, evenif there's only five people
watching you and your friendtalking about the work you're
making and your process.
You don't know who's watching.
It's just you and your pal.
It's you and your girlfriend,your boyfriend, your partner
(41:17):
whoever just talking about worktogether.
Use these things to buildconfidence for when the
opportunity comes and I want tohere's a.
This is a boost for you.
If you don't have the DelphianGallery book Navigating the Art
World, I suggest you buy it.
94% of people who follow artistson Instagram want to see that
(41:38):
artist's exhibition.
79% of people who follow artonline see more than in person.
Think about that.
That has never existed in theart world before.
That's like six years, that'slike pre-COVID to now new.
57% of the artists that followartists on Instagram.
(42:02):
They feel like they are just asimportant as the artists they
see in person.
That means there are artists,that there are people that
follow you on Instagram now thatthink you're just as important
as the artists they see ingalleries and museums.
Think about that.
What an opportunity for us,right?
The blue chip highbrow artworld does not control every
(42:25):
little trickle down thing thathappens in the art world anymore
.
The world is wide open for usto take advantage of moments and
things that we can do to allowan audience to find us.
This is the key In art history.
The artist had to find theaudience.
Always, right, van Gogh wouldhave all of his art under his
arms and walk to the salon andthen have to put all of his work
(42:47):
out, and then the galleristwould say yes or no.
Well, today we can do things onInstagram that draw an audience
to us.
Shit, that's magical.
I mean, that's incredible.
I'll bet if every artist inhistory knew that, they'd be
rolling over in their grave likeI wish they had that
opportunity.
I always say Picasso would havebeen the selfie king of
(43:08):
Instagram, right, if he wasalive, he would have done more
studio selfies than anybody inhistory, and he did it before
there was even Instagram withhis own camera on a tripod, and
this is citizens taking pictures.
So take advantage of what's infront of you, your friends.
(43:29):
If you have trouble buildingconfidence yourself, do things
with your friends.
I have two artists from mymentorship program, jacqueline
Borgian and Vered Brett.
I think they're both members ofVisionary, I'm not sure.
Maybe one of them is.
They do a talk called Big Babythey just get on.
Taken from Jerry Salt's BigBaby.
They just get on and talk abouttheir work and what they're
doing on Instagram and they justdo a live.
Do it for like an hour, butit's just building that
(43:50):
confidence.
So, and do shows with yourfriends.
Grab a bunch of friends, ofartists, and look for a space.
Do it in your apartment.
I've done so many shows in myapartments and houses in the
past.
If you go to my resume, my CV,you'll see house gallery that's
my gallery, gallerists, curators, museum.
(44:11):
They love artists that takeinitiative.
Oh my gosh, if you don't havelines in your resume, do your
own shit.
I've, my wife and I haveemptied out our entire living
room, dining room, kitchen andset up galleries in my house and
then I do a lecture and I talkabout the work and I invite the
community in.
So, yes, melissa, amen, lovethat, kill it.
(44:33):
It's going to be awesome.
And that goes on your CV.
You put it on there.
That's a solo show.
Seriously, that's huge.
When do you get a solo showever?
Do one at your house?
Solo show goes on your resume.
So, yeah, I get fired up aboutthis stuff.
I love you all so much Like I'min this for not just me, but
for all of you.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I love it.
Um, I have one more questionand then we have yeah, we're
good on time, so we have aboutlike nine 10 minutes.
Uh, if anyone wants to ask youadditional questions, um, if
that's still okay.
Um, but I know that you haveyour own artist mentorship
program, so I just want to giveyou an opportunity to share with
everyone the next one you'rehosting or any information on
that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, so right, I'm taking November and December off
to just paint.
Um, I will have applications onmy website.
We'll be.
It's open right now but I won'treally be pushing it out there
until probably next month.
Um, but January, february,march will be my next session.
Um, probably next month, butJanuary, february, march will be
my next session.
It's juried.
So I take I usually have itdepends between 10 and 20
(45:40):
artists that apply and I usuallyaccept five to seven for that
three month period, just becausethat I found that's the best
number of really buildingintimacy as a group of artists.
So I have a group component,but I also have an individual
component.
And this is not a masterclass.
This is not a how to sell art,how to be successful.
This is literally foundationsfor a studio practice and how to
(46:02):
grow in your work.
It's focused on the work, yourwork and helping you really grow
and take risks.
There is goal setting, there isgallery talk, things like that
within the program, but it'sreally me watching, cheerleading
, encouraging and helping youmaybe see things that you're not
able to see with your work andwhere those opportunities are
(46:23):
going to go.
And I've had 62 artists from midcareer to beginning in my
program.
I've had some artists who makea whole lot more money than I do
regularly that are stuck andthey're tired of making what
they're making.
And they're stuck in thegallery world because they have
to make what they're makingbecause of their lifestyle and
(46:43):
what their galleries want, andthey're bored and they hate
their work.
And so I've had artists thathave been in the program and we
work on new ideas and new thingsand how to get bold enough to
pitch those to those galleriesand things.
And so it's three months.
There is a cost, it's a patronfor me, but with all the artists
in my program I am still veryconnected to them.
(47:04):
Some of them have become bestfriends.
Just did a residency with sevenof them in Newfoundland in May
for a month.
We all did a month longresidency together, a group of
artists ranging from 78 yearsold to 26.
It was beautiful, fourdifferent countries.
So I all the information's onmy website.
You can look at it if you'reinterested.
(47:24):
Um, so, and it definitely is acommitment.
So, um, I tell artists all thetime it is a commitment and
there is.
There is a charge for it,because if you're doing
something for free as an artist,you're probably not going to
put everything into it honestly,and that's my own experience.
If you're paying for something,you're an artist.
You're getting everything outof it you can, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for everythingand for showing up.
Um, this was so insightful andinspiring as well.
Um, I'm sure other people feelthe same, but I would love to.
If anyone has any questions, um, I will bring us back to like a
group setting.
Um, yeah, I'll give everyone anopportunity.
(48:09):
Um, you can write a question inthe chat.
I'm happy to ask it out loud totie.
Or you could raise your handvia zoom or with your own real
life hand.
Give everyone a second.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
No, you got questions .
I've got a question.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
All right, michael, and then Clarissa.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Um, ty, I really appreciated, uh, your um advice
on studying and the benefit ofthe ghosts of artists whispering
in your ear.
I love the way that you putthat.
Um, that's something that Ifeel like, uh, I experience in
(48:59):
my studio while I'm working, andI'm just wondering if you could
maybe talk about a coupleartists or specific things that
have been whispered to yourecently in your recent work.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, I mean, there's a few ghosts that are with me
all the time in the studio anduh they're.
Uh, anthony Tappez is with meall the time.
Uh, cy Twombly, joe Mitchell,um, joe Miro, uh, helen
Frankenthaler you know, justnaming some of my favorites who
I've studied, studied, studiedhard.
And now de Kooning, because I'mso entrenched in his biography
(49:28):
that the Dutchman in his brokenEnglish is constantly whispering
things and we actually argue alot because we have
disagreements on some things.
You know, and so, but honestly,when I'm working, there are
times where literally I may putsomething down and then I step
back and take a moment to listenand I kind of think through,
like okay, I'll think through,like okay, well, how would Joan
(49:48):
Mitchell have handled thisnegative space right now?
Somebody who is a master atnegative space, and I'll,
literally it'll take me back towords.
I've heard her speak fromwatching YouTube lectures of
hers all the time old schoolvideo clips and things but also
from reading her biography andreading also biographies of
friends talking about her work.
And I'll hear her talkingthrough moments and things in
(50:11):
her work and how she got thereand those things are so helpful.
Like I said, I'm a forcedintrovert.
I got to force my extroversionin the studio by inviting people
in there right To speak to meand talk to me through things.
But just being able to have anunderstanding of how things work
from the artists who I emulateand I've stolen from, who are my
(50:33):
guides, they're having thatknowledge right.
What does knowledge become?
It becomes wisdom Over theyears.
Those things just get bakedinto your subconscious.
That's the beautiful thingabout neuroscience in the brain.
Those things literally get sobaked into your subconscious
that it becomes secondary toyour original thinking and that
(50:53):
just flows through you in thestudio.
So that's why I say study,study, study, find time to fit
it in love it awesome.
Thank you, yeah, man goodquestion hello, nice to meet you
.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Um, it's been really helpful.
So thank you for all yourwisdom.
Um, I was wondering if youcould give me some advice.
Um, how do you go aboutcreating under a deadline?
I'm experiencing this for thefirst time.
Now.
I'm having my first solo showand I have about three days left
(51:32):
until I can really sendeverything off to framing, and
I'm starting to look at artworksand not like them anymore, and
I feel like it's too late.
When to push through, when toreally start over, like, how to
deal with these?
I guess conflicting thoughts inyour head.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Gosh Kalisha, that's such a great question because
you don't know till you knowright, you have no idea in that
spot you're in.
And so when I'm working on work, I work in bodies of work all
the time, and so I may do 10 to30 pieces in a body of work with
the idea that it will be a soloshow.
So everything I do is visioncast to if I get a solo show,
(52:18):
I'm ready, that's what I do andthat's how I operate.
But in the beginning, when Ihad that solo show and four
months to create in right, it'slike, oh shit, what now?
So I just started working andworking.
I'll tell you that forceddeadline is a great thing
because it makes you really work, but when you get to the end,
it also adds a brand newresistance that you are not
(52:40):
aware of, which is am I reallyhappy with the work that I just
made?
So I always tell artists getthat shit out of your head and
just realize I'm doing the bestI can with what I know right now
, and this experience is what'sgoing to guide me to doing even
better the next time.
(53:00):
So what I say is throw out allthe negative thoughts, breathe
deep, meditate, do something andgo listen.
I'm doing the best work that Icould do today.
Once this work is out the door,you're going to go see the
exhibition.
Don't doubt yourself when yougo see the work on the walls.
Don't doubt things that youthink are weak, that you could
(53:22):
do right now.
Just know, okay, this is alearning experience.
This is my first one.
Take it all in, write notes.
Oh, maybe I could have donethis, maybe I should have done
this.
But here's the thing it writenotes.
Oh, maybe I could have donethis, maybe I should have done
this.
But here's the thing.
(53:42):
It's a solo show.
The art world said yes,somebody said yes to your work
and they're putting it in a show.
That's rare.
I could sit 11 artists, 100artists in the room right now
and say how many of you have hadsolo shows that are either
beginning or lower emerginglevel?
I'd say how many of you havehad solo shows that are either
beginning or lower emerginglevel?
There's going to be very fewpeople that raise their hands
right.
So no, okay, this is the firstsolo show.
Is that what you said?
(54:02):
Number one congratulations.
What a freaking celebration.
If I had champagne right now,I'd pop the bottle and celebrate
.
Only artists know that feeling.
Nobody else in our life knowsthat feeling of selling a piece
or getting a show or any of that.
So congratulations.
So just get in your mind I didthe best I could.
I'm learning.
I'm excited to have thisexperience.
(54:24):
After the show is over, sit downand think through everything.
Think through how that deadlineapproach.
Journal I'm big on journalingThink through that entire
experience.
How did I handle things?
Did I start too late?
Should I have started earlier?
Was I only working on one pieceat a time?
Should I have worked on threeor four at one time?
(54:45):
How could I have made thisexperience fit in to a more
comfortable zone leading up tothe deadline?
Because we're always going to bebutting up against the deadline
.
We're not going to have ourwork done a month or two months
before the show.
We're always going to be going.
Can I have a few more days tosend the work?
I wouldn't advise that.
Get it done.
But that's kind of how we are asartists, because why?
(55:08):
Everything we're doing is takingus somewhere new.
That's art.
The work we're doing today isteaching us about our vision.
Vision is always ahead ofexecution.
The work in our head is neverthe work we're making.
We're not that good yet right,we're just not.
So when you're doing that,you're coming up to the show.
You're starting to look at yourvision rather than what you can
(55:29):
execute on and that's where theresistance really starts to
churn and rather than what youcan execute on, and that's where
the resistance really starts tochurn.
And then fear comes and thensecond guessing.
So just be confident.
You have the opportunity.
We're going to knock this out.
Get the work there, post show.
Look at everything, oh gosh.
Look at everything around youand talk to friends.
Bring that network in.
Hey, what could I have improvedon?
(55:50):
How could I have done better?
Which works did you love?
But find the threads in thoseworks that are leading you to
the next, to the next work.
That's how I view everyopportunity I get now.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Wow, yes, thank you Really send me pictures of the
opening.
I want to see the work.
I want to see the show.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
I will, I will.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Thank you, Ty.
On that note, would you mind doyou have access to the chat, I
think, if it's okay becausewe're at time, I think if you
want to drop your email forpeople to reach out and continue
the conversation with you, Ithink that could be a great way
to connect.
Maybe your at as well, yourInstagram handle.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah, you can also.
Yeah, I'm always answeringquestions on Instagram, too
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
You're the best.
This was just so good.
You have such good energy andare so inspiring.
So thank you again for yourtime and thank you everyone for
participating.
so we are super excited to um introduce ty um
all.
For those of you who um mightnot know who ty is, he has been
a tableau member for almost overI think a bit over a year now,
um, and he's also an incrediblytalented um multidisciplinary
artist, um, and he's also theincredibly talented um
(00:23):
multidisciplinary artist, um,and he's also the co-host of a
podcast called just make artpodcast.
He also does many other, hasmany other endeavors, uh, which
he will share himself Um.
But yeah, thank you so much, ty, for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, I'm, I'm so excited, so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Amazing.
So we're going to have a chatand we're going to learn a bit
more about the business of beingan artist, so thanks so much
for being with us here tonight.
I was thinking I could readyour very long bio to everyone,
but I thought it would just begreat to pass it to you, for you
to kick off by just likeintroducing yourself a bit more
and sharing a bit more in depth,like a bit more of an overview
(01:05):
of who you are, what you do,which will help give more
context as I ask you, as I askyou questions throughout the
evening.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely yeah.
So I'm a multidisciplinaryartist in Waco, texas, a small
town in between Dallas andAustin.
I will be back in Austin,coming up pretty soon here, as
soon as we find a place to moveback to Austin.
That's where we were before andso I have been making art since
I can remember.
I grew up in a family that wasreally surrounded by art,
(01:36):
because my uncle was aworld-renowned Raku artist and
sculptor and a professor at UCSBin Santa Barbara in ceramics,
and so I've always just beenaround it and have this passion
for it ceramics and so I'vealways just been around it and
have this passion for it.
And through my lifetime I'vetraveled all over the world and
lived in multiple countries.
I've been on five continentsliving and learning and studying
and playing and doing all kindsof stuff, and just that ability
(01:59):
to be in other cultures andlearn from other cultures and
eat different foods and smelldifferent smells just has
absolutely inspired so muchwithin my work, and I have also
worked in film.
I've also written a novel and Iwrite as well.
I grew up learning that from mygrandfather, as well as art, and
, like Blaine said, I have apodcast that is for you all, for
(02:22):
beginning and emerging artistswith one of my former mentees
from an artist mentorshipprogram that I have, where I
have worked with 62 artists nowfrom 21 countries around the
world in my program and myco-host is now one of my best
friends and was a former studentin my program, so definitely
check it out.
I think you'll get a lot ofmeat from it.
(02:42):
I really do.
We do it for what we're talkingabout today just that struggle
of being an artist and trying toget your work somewhere and
trying to grow in your work andstuff.
So I've studied under somegreat mentors, including one of
my professors in college,american sculptor William
Catling, and the JapaneseAmerican artist, makoto Fujimura
(03:04):
, who's out of New Jersey andNew York, and honestly, I just
love being involved in cultureand community and any type of
issues that surround the arts.
So I always try to place myselfin arenas to be in the mix.
That's why I'm in Visionary andTableau all the way from Waco,
texas, so I can be in the mixwith artists from all over the
world, and so I currently workhere in Waco.
(03:25):
My wife is here with me.
I have my little puppy we don'thave kids Just had my 50th
birthday two weeks ago and Ican't believe that I'm halfway
through life and I have work allover the US.
So I've got dealers andgalleries that I've worked with
and interior designers andthings over the years and I'm
(03:46):
excited to kind of share thatjourney and how I got to those
moments too today.
So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Amazing, I feel like you like tie that up so nicely
because you do so much.
Um, I knew it would soundbetter coming from you and happy
belated birthday.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm also a Libra, so we're, we're, we're in it
together.
Um, cool, so um, I would loveto know did you always have a
vision for who you wanted to beand like where you wanted to be,
or has it been more organic,the way that it's all unfolded
for you after over the past manyyears?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
That's such a great question.
That's something that Iencourage everybody that's on
here to journal about latertonight.
Such a good question, Justthinking back on those things
and how you got to today.
I always had a goal and a focus, and I think that was because
of my uncle.
Art was always around in SantaBarbara at my grandparents'
house and at my uncle's housethere, and so I was surrounded
(04:48):
by it and my grandfather wouldalways teach me about the
legends of art history and thelegends of poetry and literature
, and he would read to me and hewould discuss these things with
me and he would tell me aboutthe great art friendships like
Van Gogh and Gauguin, and he'dteach me about the beehive and
the impressionists, and all Iwanted to do was be that the
(05:11):
books that he would have on mylap that I have today, all the
big coffee table books from theMet and Smithsonian and MoMA all
these they're all on mybookshelf today, and so I always
had that dream of that's what Iwanted to do, and so my parents
always had stuff clay andwatercolors and paints and
things for my brothers and I andwe always just played with art,
(05:31):
and then in high school I had Ican probably feel like I had
the best art teachers known tome Toby, Mario and Kim, who are
still dear friends today, allthe way back in Northern
California.
I keep in touch with them.
I saw them a few years back atmy 30th reunion and we spent an
entire day together and theyjust inspired and pushed me in a
(05:52):
way that gave me so muchconfidence that I can do this.
So then I got a basketballscholarship to college and
studied art there at the artschool, and that was my goal
let's get through school andlet's do art.
And then, after school is out,I went.
What the fuck do I do?
I think anybody that's been toart school or not.
(06:13):
Art school that's the firstthing that happens.
The door's shut, you walk outand you go.
Okay, well, thanks for teachingme nothing.
Thanks for not telling me howto do this.
Thanks for teaching me nothing.
Thanks for not telling me howto do this.
And so I did everything onGod's green earth you could
imagine from working in retail,managing retail, started a
fashion brand and outdoor brand,did all these different things,
(06:36):
worked in marketing and PR andall these things to finally get
to the point when, 10 years agoI could go full-time as an
artist.
So that's kind of like my goalhas been laser focused.
I wrote a list when I was 10years old of all the goals I
have to accomplish and it had bein art galleries, have a museum
show, have a coffee table booklike the ones at grandpa's, like
(06:59):
it.
Had that list and so I'veslowly been checking that list
off over the last 50 years.
Had that list and so I'veslowly been checking that list
off over the last 50 years.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So that's incredible and that's so inspiring.
I don't think, like I feel likemost 10 year olds, like even if
they did write that, like writedown what they saw for
themselves, it might not be, itmight it would change a lot over
the course of years.
So I think it's reallyincredible when people find
their purpose so young.
Um, it's really inspiring.
Um, that's so special.
(07:28):
Um.
I'm curious like how well,first of all, those are like
incredible accomplishments.
Um, so congrats.
Um.
I'm curious, like how did youuh get started selling your
artwork?
Um, and like how old were youwhen you made your first sale?
And like when did you realizethat you could sell the artwork
(07:50):
that you're making?
Like how did it?
When did it like materialize ina real way for you?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, so once I left art school in 99, I was, you
know, working retail andscrapping and doing the things
and artists would do, and I waspainting on a back porch that if
I left stuff out in the rain itgot wet and got ruined in a
little teeny apartment, you know.
And I ended up randomly, when Ileft California to move to
Texas, I had a couple employeesin the retail world that were at
(08:18):
University of North Texasdrawing and painting program and
so we would get together andhang out and paint and they were
in.
If you don't know, universityof North Texas is one of the top
drawing and painting programsin the country.
Usually at times we'll goflip-flop with with Yale that's
how impressive the program is.
They're in Denton, texas, andso they obviously had very big
(08:39):
professors who were major in theart world.
And so I feel like that dreamof I'm just trying to do stuff.
Well, all of a sudden I waskind of back in that art school
mindset again.
If I'm going for this, I'mdoing this.
So we started doing our ownshows.
We literally would go, we'dfind a barn in the middle of
Denton Texas and ask the ownerif we could clean it out and do
a show and we would set up allof our work and invite our
(09:00):
friends and the art program andart professors and we just
started doing our own shows.
We didn't sell anything, but itwas like this momentum started
to build and the dream startedto get really real and then we
did a pop-up exhibition in 2009.
So this is fast forwarding at alarge lofts in Dallas, texas,
that was a fundraiser for anonprofit and we gathered, I
(09:23):
think, 60 artists andphotographers that we knew and
cleaned out probably an 8,000square foot basement of these
lofts and did a big show and Isold my first major piece in
that show and I remember my wifewas so mad at me because I
negotiated with the guy and henegotiated me down so low, but I
(09:43):
was so excited to get moneythere because he lived there
that I sold the piece for not alot of money, but to me it felt
like such an incredibletransaction, not just for art
but for my art career.
It was like a transaction oflike.
I just took a step here.
I negotiated a sale in a spacethat we set up and the guy lived
(10:04):
upstairs, so I got to go upthere afterwards and put it on
his wall.
I mean, it was magic and it'sjust as those.
You know, we all have thosemoments kind of in our story
that are just these like boom,boom, boom and we can just cross
those lines and those dots tothings that give us that next
big jump.
And so it was 2009 at the loveevent in Dallas.
(10:25):
Wow, that's after I saw yourquestions, I had to go back on
Facebook and go back to littleshows and stuff to figure out
the date.
So that was fun.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Had you ever sold anything on like a way smaller
scale prior?
I was just curious for, like,even during art school, like,
did you have any transactions,or was it?
Or did you do any like artswaps or was it just more
focused on like creating until?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
swaps.
You know what I mean.
I feel like I did a lot ofswaps or like gave people pieces
or things.
I don't even think I had thefirst clue, honestly, to what it
meant to sell a piece of art oreven price my work at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Right Interesting Um, and so I know that you were
really inspired I think you alsomentioned this by your uncle,
um Conway, Jiggs Pearson.
Um, so in what ways do youthink that, like he shaped the
way you view art and business?
Um, and the way that you know,make that that you've approached
(11:24):
like making a name for yourselfand building your career in
this industry, and I'm curiousif he, yeah, like what guidance
he gave you in general?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So he passed when I was 10 years old Wow, he was 28
years older than my mom.
Okay, so he passed, and so allI have are these random memories
of him that aren't really verydeep relationally but they were
very deep on like a hero level,like impact, impact.
(11:56):
He, okay, he was yourquintessential ceramicist, right
, dirty jeans that had clay inthem all the time, clay under
his fingernails, big white beardoveralls, that kind of
unbuttoned long sleeve shirt,you know that would be kind of
rolled up so he fit this moldright.
If, like, if, I see a pictureof Monet in his garden, it's
(12:17):
like that's my uncle Jiggs, youknow, had that kind of feel and
so.
But his work was everywhere andI mean I have a show poster
here in my office sitting on thewall that is kind of just an
encouragement for me, but it'sjust a show poster from a show
of his in Osaka, japan.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And so that's just those things were present at my
grandparents' house, at myaunt's house, and he had a kiln
in the backyard when he won anaward from the National
Endowments of the Arts Artist ofthe Year, I think, in 69.
They bought him a kiln the NEAdid and so it was in his
backyard.
So there's all this thingsgoing on that I was, so I knew
(12:58):
it was possible, that's what itgave me.
I didn't get to learn thebusiness side, I got to learn
that's something that isreachable and attainable and
possible and that's what itreally taught me I can do this.
And I think that really hit mewhen I was older.
Right, Really needed that fireor that.
Something to help in thosemoments of resistance and
(13:21):
frustration and confusion waslike I know it's possible.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Um, could you share someinsights on how you land
opportunities for yourself as anartist?
Yes, I mean, it sounds likeyou're very self-motivated and
created your own opportunitiesfrom the start.
Um, so I'd be curious on, like,how you built from there.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Absolutely.
I just did a collector's talklast night at a small museum.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I saw that I was talking about this last night.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Instagram Instagram Instagram.
Instagram Instagram.
This is beautiful.
This is a beautiful thing thatyou know.
I had a pretty big network onMySpace.
For those of you who are oldenough to remember MySpace, that
was made up of artists.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I loved MySpace, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
That was artists and musicians that I built there.
I mean, random people is thegreatest thing in the world.
I can talk to an artist inSpain, what?
And then, when MySpace died,that all kind of transferred to
Facebook, that network.
We all kind of got together onFacebook and then that all
migrated to Instagram.
And then, literally in 2010,when Instagram started, I
(14:30):
started following Heather Day.
She is the experiment on how tobe successful in social media.
She's the first artist toexplode, career wise because of
social media and at that time,my Instagram was that normal
Instagram page pictures of wineat dinner, trips, sunsets, my
feet at the pool, right, likeall that stuff back then.
(14:51):
But I was following her and Iwas going.
She's exploding.
I was following her onInstagram, but then everywhere
else where her shows were, whereshe was popping up and I was
going.
So in 2011, I changedeverything.
I deleted my whole feed and Ijust started doing everything
that Heather was doing processphotos, talking about the work,
videos of me in the studio and,honestly, that just brought a
(15:15):
flood.
I just happened to be reallyfortunate at the time when
Instagram still grew organically, right, and I followed somebody
that nailed exactly whatartists need to do and, like I
tell artists all the time, don'tcare about growing your numbers
, care about the quality of whatyou're putting in your feed,
(15:36):
your work, your process, bevulnerable, talk about stuff.
Somebody is probably watchingyou and the art world watches
but and they don't follow.
They don't click follow, theywatch, they don't click follow,
they don't click like they watchand they watch and they watch
and they watch.
And then they send an email andit's usually pretty short.
(15:59):
If you've read Get the Pictureby Bianca Bosker you get some
moments from Bianca where shesays, yeah, the art world sends
really short emails so they cansound like they're really,
really busy.
So if you ever get a reallylong email from somebody, it's
probably a vanity gallery.
Just so you know, the artworld's really short and
(16:19):
sometimes they only do theydon't even do a body email, they
just do a subject line.
So it's pretty funny.
That is funny.
That's really how everythingcame for me was through
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And could you elaborate a little more Like, if
you remember maybe the firstopportunity that came through
Instagram and maybe most, maybethe oldest memory you have for
and maybe the most recent, andwere these?
Can you expand on what type ofopportunities they were as well?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah.
So I'll do three.
I'll talk about one that wasgreat, one that didn't pan out,
another one that's really great.
So I got a.
Got an email one day this is, Iforget what year it was, and it
was a gallery in North Carolina.
Hey, been following yourInstagram for a while.
Love to talk to you about doinga solo show.
Had not had a solo show, onlygroup shows and juried shows and
(17:11):
things like that Nothing majorat all.
And I mean, this is probablyeight years ago and I was like
what?
So got on the phone, hopped on,had a great conversation, set
up a solo show for the followingyear in Charlotte, north
Carolina, and it was literallyshe'd been following me for, I
think, six or eight months orsomething, maybe a year, and
then finally just sent an email.
Was not following me, followingme Okay, we're talking just
(17:32):
watching, having your name on alist and having the interns or
the gallery assistant keep trackof things and then eventually,
if they feel like you're a greatfit, sending that email.
So that happened from Instagram.
And then one day I got a randomemail when I was at a friend's
house.
It was literally a subject lineand it said send me a catalog,
(17:56):
no body text or anything.
And then the name said StefanSimkowitz and I went I don't
even know who this is.
And so I looked it up.
Do your research.
Anytime you get a random emailfrom somebody, search their
email address, search their name.
Do a deep dive before you reply, as we get a lot of spam, us
artists a lot, um and all thefirst thing that came up was the
(18:17):
cover of art forum, uh, and abunch of other magazines with
him on the cover as the anti artworld gallerist.
And so I went okay, this islegit.
I sent a catalog, didn't hearback.
Right, that's the oh man.
Oh, did he get it?
Did it go through?
That's a that even.
Oh, my gosh.
So then, finally, a week later,I said hey, did you get my
(18:39):
catalog?
Just want to make sure I canresend if I need to.
And it responded back.
I did Thanks, just want to makesure I can resend if I need to.
And he responded back I didThanks, not for me right now,
that was it, but that taught mesomething.
I'm doing something right.
If he found me Right, I'm doingsomething right If somehow he
discovered me on Instagram andsent me a message, whether he
(19:00):
wanted it or not.
The art world said I want tosend this guy an email.
The third one that happened justlike Simkowitz.
I got a random email one dayand it said hey, ty, I'd love to
see your work.
Johnny Wolf I have no idea whothis is, so I went to his
website, look him up.
He's an art dealer and acurator in LA.
(19:21):
He's been on the board at LACMA.
He also deals in secondary artBasquiat, rothko, lots of big
art and I thought, oh, it'sgoing to be just like Simkowitz.
So I sent him a catalog.
I don't hear back for a monthand then finally, a month later,
I hear back hey, ty, I want tocommission your entire catalog.
I went that's like 80 worksthat I sent him.
(19:47):
That's insane.
It was for six months and atfirst I was like oh, what then?
What do I do?
And I went oh, this is good,that means I have to make a lot
more new months.
Didn't hear a thing for a year,didn't respond to emails,
(20:10):
contract was up Every few months.
I would say hey, do you want torenew the contract?
What do you want to do?
Nothing for a year.
Almost a year later, I get anemail that says hey, ty, I need
these five pieces.
I just sold them to a client inNew Zealand and it was newer
work that was not in the catalog, because what I would do is
still in his Dropbox folder,update the catalog that was in
(20:32):
there.
Even though he wasn't responding, I continued to update my
catalog with new work and drop anew catalog in the Dropbox that
he had for the old one.
And he sold five works to aclient in New Zealand major sale
and they were between six feetand five and five foot pieces,
so larger works as well.
And that has been probably mysecond best relationship I've
(20:57):
ever had in the art world.
Same with my dealer in Houstonsame thing, but this one.
I took initiative.
She I saw that it was a newdealer in Houston that was
representing a few friends.
So I sent a direct message andsaid hey, I've got some friends
that look like are working withyou.
If you're looking to addanybody new to your roster, I'd
love to have a conversation.
She responded back Can we talktoday?
(21:18):
She sold more work for me inthe last five years than anybody
that ever has, so those are allthrough Instagram.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So the galleries that currentlyrepresent you did you make
those connections throughInstagram as well?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
All Instagram.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Wow, and so there's a mix, like a lot of them you had
reached out to.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I have reached out to some.
I court them very intelligently.
So if there's a gal, I have alist of galleries on a
spreadsheet and they're allsegmented from galleries I fit
in galleries who have peopleI've shown with some of the
galleries I fit in that I havemy dream galleries, right the
white cubes, this Werner's, theschnob, beto Schnabel's, all
(22:02):
those dream ones, right, theMcNerney's.
But I court the ones on.
The ones I fit in that aren'tbig.
I may feel like I fit inZwirner at times, but I know I
don't, but you know what I mean.
But those ones that I know Ifit in, I will court them on
Instagram.
I will like every single postthey have.
I will comment on the newexhibitions.
I will comment on work I reallylove, but not emojis.
(22:26):
I really give a critics type ofresponse to the work and how
powerful it is and how I like it.
And then I wait.
If they engage me, I feel likethey just extended the hand for
a relationship to begin and thenI'll take it to a DM after that
and engage Usually with.
If I'm in New York, I'd love tocome by and bring your staff
(22:46):
coffees and just say hello,things like that I'm going to be
in LA next week.
I'd love to stop in and I'mletting them know I'm coming, so
that when I'm there they go ohTy, wow, it's great to see you
here.
Or, if they don't remember, ohyeah, I was chatting with the
so-and-so on Instagram last week, those types of things, but, um
, but I'm very, very smart andintelligent about it and I am
(23:08):
very patient with it too.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, amazing.
What advice would you give toartists that are just starting
out, or artists who haveexperience being exhibited in
group exhibitions but arewanting to have solo shows and
representation?
Like what would be some of your, your best advice there?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah.
So, man, make that list.
I'm telling you right now, ifyou don't make a spreadsheet or
a list, you're going to forgetthe ones that are a little more
off the grid than you wouldnormally remember.
We come across galleries onInstagram and things all the
time.
I use artsy for my research.
So I'll go on artsy in thegallery section and I'll type in
Dallas, texas, in the gallerysection and I'll go look at all
(23:50):
the galleries in Dallas and thenI'll go through all the
galleries and I'll look to seeif there's any artists I've
shown with before.
But I also look at the work.
If they have prices up onARCSEA, I look at their price
points too, because that'll alsogive you a really good working
knowledge of if you fit or not.
If your work is averagingaround $5,000 and most of the
work in this galleries at 15,you got a few years to get there
(24:13):
.
Even if your work is a strongright now, you might have a
little more time to get there.
Um, so I make that list and thenI go.
I don't get to go to as much,but if you're in an area where
you can go, go to every singleopening you can go to make
yourself seen, make yourselfknown, even if you're a fly on
the wall, even if you're sointroverted that this is the
(24:34):
most awkward and hard thing inthe world to do.
Just go grab a drink and standin the corner.
Somebody will remember you andsomebody will say hello at some
point.
Because if you want to beinteresting, you have to be
interested.
Because if you want to beinteresting, you have to be
interested.
Everything in the art world isfor selfish reasons, but if
(24:56):
you're really interested and youwant to build that relationship
and be in that place, go toeverything and be seen and be
known, give interest in whatthey're doing, people will
respond back.
And then, honestly, instagramoh, I can't tell you be really
intelligent with your feed.
Your descriptions now are justas important as hashtags and the
(25:18):
image that you share.
The Instagram algorithm crawlsyour description as much as it
does everything else.
Now I had a call with Instagrama few months ago discussing all
the new algorithm things andstuff coming out and they were
saying man, multiple images andvideos in one feed and being
able to have a really wellwritten description for what
(25:41):
you're posting.
Words right.
Abstract art, figurative art,art galleries Put those things
in your post, right, it'll becrawled.
Who knows who's watching now?
Abstract art, figurative art,art galleries Put those things
in your post, right, it'll becrawled.
Who knows who's watching?
Now people go to hashtags andlook for things.
Gallerists crawl throughabstract art hashtag and just do
(26:01):
a crawl and if something piquestheir interest they look.
So put up.
Talk about stuff.
You don't have to post every day.
You can do three days a week's,fine.
You don't have to post everyday.
You can do three days a week's,fine.
You don't have to do seven daysa week, like you used to.
But make sure your work looksgood in your photos.
Don't put up really dark,crappy photos.
That's a turnoff.
Make sure your work is reallyhighlighted beautifully.
(26:24):
As an example, one of my formermentees is the co-host on my
podcast got an email a fewmonths ago from a gallerist in
Munich.
Nathan, I've been following youfor a year.
I follow your journey almostweekly.
It's been so impressivewatching you grow Note that,
watching you grow over time andwe want to take a chance on you
(26:46):
before the art world finds you.
Want to take a chance on youbefore the art world finds you.
This is a massive mid-careergallery in Munich.
He's had two tiny little soloshows.
In Denver with a new openingstartup gallery.
He has a two-person show withKit King, who is one of the
largest female internationalartists in the world.
She is insane.
(27:07):
It's the Benjamin at gallery.
He has a two person show forhis first major exhibition in
Munich, all because somebody wasfollowing his Instagram feed.
That's insane.
And then I have another artistin Spain, moxonanda, who was
just featured.
He hadn't had a show yet.
(27:27):
Before my mentorship program wereally worked on confidence,
building confidence.
He worked on his work for ayear and then just started going
into galleries and asking if hecould have an exhibition boldly
.
That's a little more acceptablein Spain than it is in the US,
so I do not advise that in theStates, but in Spain that is
something that is moreacceptable to go in and pitch
yourself to a gallerist.
(27:48):
And he's had multiple shows andwas just featured on arts
artsies new global curation listof 200 artists.
Today that's within two years.
I'll talk about how to getthere in a little bit when you
do something else, but that wasreally just building out
Instagram, working hard on hiswork and then being bold enough
(28:11):
to go out and pitch his workbecause he was confident in it.
Now, that's the other key Ifyou're not confident in your
work, don't go push it out there, yet Somebody will spell
non-confidence on you prettyeasily, pretty quickly pretty
(28:33):
quickly.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That's all such incredible information, thank
you.
What do you think the mostimportant things are that an
artist needs to do in order tocreate a strong foundation for a
long-term career as a sellingartist?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, I love this question because one of my
favorite quotes from Hippocratesin 430 BC that was kind of
translated a little different isart is long, life is short,
experience is treacherous.
Right, I mean, that's the lifeof an artist, right, time,
(29:06):
patience, the work is number one.
The work is by far and awaynumber one.
You have to be putting the timein that you have.
Most of us all work, have sidejobs, have patron type things,
like my mentorship program.
Some of us have two or threejobs.
The time you have to make work,you're going to have to make
(29:28):
sacrifices in life to make work,and a lot of it.
Right, you've got to spend thattime.
Next to work.
The network is number two.
You've got to build a network.
You've got to go to shows andif you're in a place that is so
far away from the art world, useInstagram to build that network
.
Reach out to artists that youhave things in common with.
(29:50):
Why are we all here?
Right, with Tableau andVisionary Projects?
Right, we're all hoping forthat network.
Connect to the artists withinthe network.
Do things together, talktogether, look and listen at
lots of work.
Read books, listen to podcasts,study art history, go to
(30:18):
freaking museums and galleries.
Why?
Because that is going to teachyou more about your work than
you being in the studio everyday.
All the things you're going tolearn from going to museums and
galleries and looking at workyou love and looking at work you
hate.
When you come back to thestudio, your brain is going to
go from here to here.
Now, all of the ghosts of thoseartists are going to be
(30:41):
whispering in your ear aboutdepth and composition and
texture and color and all thosethings, things you can't learn
on your own, things you needpeople whispering to you about.
And why do I say read and study?
Because every artist in historyhas been exactly where you are
at some point in their life.
There are no superheroes in theart world.
(31:01):
They're all regular humanbeings, just like us, who worked
their butts off, sacrificed,like us who worked their butts
off, sacrificed and had a lot ofluck as well.
So study, study, study.
Because in the moments whenyou're like ready to throw the
towel, in which I have been manytimes, you hear Joan Mitchell
(31:22):
in your ear, or you hear JoanMiro in your ear, or you hear
Burt Morissette in your earsaying I was there when I was 30
.
I was there when I was 40.
I almost quit but I kept goingand I know it because I read it
and I heard him say it, and sothen you have that confidence.
I'm reading de Kooning'sbiography right now.
De Kooning didn't have hisfirst major show until 46 years
(31:44):
old.
Then he didn't sell his firstmajor works until 51.
Willem de Kooning, like, thinkabout that, somebody you see in
a museum wall that you justassume had that Midas touch and
was probably everywhere in their20s.
You know, no, it took him thatlong to get there.
Art takes time.
(32:05):
I don't even know if I answeredthe question.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Crossed it, the work, the network, study look and
listen and those are the mostimportant things that an artist
needs to do in order to create astrong foundation for a
long-term career?
Absolutely yes.
I'm curious about somechallenges that you faced as an
artist over the years and, likein what ways you've grown from
(32:31):
those challenges.
I mean I think overall itsounds like I mean we all know
there's many challenges, but ifthere's anything to pinpoint
specifically that maybe had likea bigger learning, curve.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I'm an art.
I'm a purist.
I'm an art to make thestrongest work I can make in my
lifetime.
If I sell work in that processI'm really freaking excited and
my wife is really excited too.
But I'm not in it to sell work.
I I I'm in it for the thingsthat I learned from my
grandfather when I was young.
(33:05):
If I can make work my whole lifeand put a lot of time into it,
if I can make work my whole lifeand put a lot of time into it,
if I can take risks and trustthe process, I am 100% confident
that by the end of my lifetimeI might have work that lasts in
a museum.
That's why I'm in it.
(33:26):
So that means I have to evolveconstantly, I have to take risks
, I have to change.
I have to be constantly tryingnew things.
That doesn't mean every day.
That means I do a body of workfor four months or six months or
eight months and then I'velearned that that body of work
is teaching me about what isnext.
I'm leaving these unraveledthreads in my work that is
(33:48):
leading me to something down theroad that may be so risk taking
that I have a show in Houston.
This is a real story.
Such a big risk to trysomething new.
And then I have a solo show inHouston with all that work and I
don't sell one piece in thatshow, right.
And then I come back to thestudio and I go.
(34:11):
I just wasted five months of mylife.
Why am I doing so?
I let myself have a day beforeI move on and I bitch and I moan
and I complain and I look ateverything.
And why are you doing this?
Oh my gosh, you spent so muchmoney.
You rented the truck to get thework down there, but that
entire body of work two bodiesof work later helped me create
(34:33):
some of my strongest work.
If I hadn't have taken thattime and that energy to just
follow these threads somewhere,it wouldn't have taught me where
that next conceptual leap camefrom.
So my biggest challenge isalways lying taking those
moments of risk.
That might set me back a while,but knowing the rewards are
(34:57):
going to be far greater if I'mpatient and keep pushing through
and working.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Absolutely, Definitely.
And on the flip side, what is aproud moment that you've had in
your career and how did youmake it possible for yourself?
Yeah, probably throughInstagram, but um, actually is
not, so this one.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I had a museum exhibition last year with my
best friend, uh VietnameseAmerican female artist in Austin
, Texas, Vino, who is also achief of medicine at a hospital.
She's a complete badass.
So every time I think like Ihaven't been making enough work.
I'm like, well, V doesn't haveas much time as me, so I need to
.
You know what I mean.
I need to pick it up If she canmake work doing that also,
(35:43):
being a single mom with two kids, I can do everything I can to
make a shit ton of workregularly.
Sounds like a superhero.
I can do everything I can tomake a shit ton of work
regularly.
Sounds like a superhero.
He is an absolute superhero.
We had a two-person exhibitionlast year.
That was a dream.
To be able to have anexhibition with one of your best
friends in the world that youknow the work will speak
together was such a beautifulmoment.
(36:04):
This is at our small museum inWaco that has a new, incredible
building with three separategalleries within the space and a
really large installation areain the back.
So we filled the whole thing.
I think we had 23 works each.
I had sculptures and paintingsand then we each had a very
(36:24):
large installation in the backas well and I've gotten to know
some of the board when we firstmoved to Waco nine years ago but
they had a little space at thecommunity college back then but
they since did a major fundraiseand built the actual museum
property.
That is beautiful and I helpedget a few female friends on the
(36:46):
board, because it was a prettyheavily seated male board and
nobody really knew art on theboard Small town, they're
businessmen.
They had no direction.
It was a mess.
And I got a young sculptor,Morgan Earing, who's a dear
friend, on the board and I gotmy best friend here.
Dr Jane Dameron, who curates alot of my shows, is now the
(37:08):
board chair.
Dr Jane Dameron, who curates alot of my shows, is now the
board chair, and so they werekey in helping make sure they
had me on the calendar for ashow in an upcoming year, and so
I also had them co-curate theshow so that they could also
have that on their resume ascurators of a museum exhibition.
So that's probably for me, thatis an absolute career highlight
for me.
Yeah, it sounds incredible.
There were plenty of tears,I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
So that's probably for me that is an absolute
career highlight for me.
Yeah, it sounds incredible,plenty of tears, I'll.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, that sounds really special.
Um, so we yeah, we still havesome time.
Um, a lot of artists, as youknow, are really intimidated by
the idea of marketing themselves, and you also touched on
confidence super briefly and Ithought it was really
(37:55):
interesting what you said.
Maybe we could chat about thatfor a bit, because I'd love to
hear any advice you might have,because, even through this
conversation and pretty muchevery single person I've been
doing this for over a year thatwe have on as our guests, like
even when Haley and I are doingpanels, like whatever we're
doing, anytime we're speaking toanyone in the art world, no
(38:16):
matter where they sit, instagramcomes up.
So and yeah, it's a big focusalso for us and when we have our
incubator, et cetera.
So, yeah, we'd just love tohear specifically your thoughts
and maybe words of wisdom forhow to get started, or maybe
some advice.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I mean, listen, you are all doing this because you
love it so much and it is a partof you.
You cannot escape it.
You are doing this because youcannot escape it.
It's a part of your soul.
You are doing this because youcannot escape it.
(39:05):
It's a part of your soul.
It's a part of your creativebeing, your created being.
This is in you, this is part ofyou.
I know I'm extroverted, but I'ma forced introvert, right?
Because you know why you do it.
You know how much you love it.
You have an absolute confidencein making your work.
That's why you're still makingit.
That's why you haven't thrownin the towel, you haven't given
up.
You spend money you could spendon rent and food and bills to
buy art supplies and things,because you can't escape this
(39:27):
feeling inside.
That is confidence.
That is a confidence that youcan exude in the moments where
you're very afraid and you'revery scared.
Jerry Salt says it best whenthe demons arise in the middle
of the night, sit up, say outloud I'm a fucking genius, I
know this.
(39:48):
Instagram is a great place topractice that confidence.
Because you're not in front ofpeople, you're not on the panel
in front of a crowd, you're notat the show with somebody asking
you questions.
There's still a wall there.
Practice being vulnerable andtalking about your art on
instagram.
This is a great place topractice so that when you have
(40:09):
the opportunity, when you have ashow and a group show and the
gallerist says, hey, we'd loveto do a lecture, does anybody
want to be a part of it?
You're the first person toraise your hand.
What will separate an artistfrom other artists in a wall?
And a gallerist's mind is theone that is always willing to do
the extra thing for thatgallery.
Most artists are introvertedand the hands don't go up.
(40:33):
I had to teach myself how toreally be confident and speak.
Even though I'm an extrovert,you're still talking about your
work, right?
You're still sitting naked infront of the audience with your
work on the wall.
So if you can practice onInstagram and then take that
boldness and confidence to themoments when you do speak
because I'm speaking this rightinto fruition for all of you, I
(40:56):
hope that you all have thatopportunity to give a little 10
minute talk about your work ordo an Instagram live with a
friend right now, next week.
Great place to practice, evenif there's only five people
watching you and your friendtalking about the work you're
making and your process.
You don't know who's watching.
It's just you and your pal.
It's you and your girlfriend,your boyfriend, your partner
(41:17):
whoever just talking about worktogether.
Use these things to buildconfidence for when the
opportunity comes and I want tohere's a.
This is a boost for you.
If you don't have the DelphianGallery book Navigating the Art
World, I suggest you buy it.
94% of people who follow artistson Instagram want to see that
(41:38):
artist's exhibition.
79% of people who follow artonline see more than in person.
Think about that.
That has never existed in theart world before.
That's like six years, that'slike pre-COVID to now new.
57% of the artists that followartists on Instagram.
(42:02):
They feel like they are just asimportant as the artists they
see in person.
That means there are artists,that there are people that
follow you on Instagram now thatthink you're just as important
as the artists they see ingalleries and museums.
Think about that.
What an opportunity for us,right?
The blue chip highbrow artworld does not control every
(42:25):
little trickle down thing thathappens in the art world anymore
.
The world is wide open for usto take advantage of moments and
things that we can do to allowan audience to find us.
This is the key In art history.
The artist had to find theaudience.
Always, right, van Gogh wouldhave all of his art under his
arms and walk to the salon andthen have to put all of his work
(42:47):
out, and then the galleristwould say yes or no.
Well, today we can do things onInstagram that draw an audience
to us.
Shit, that's magical.
I mean, that's incredible.
I'll bet if every artist inhistory knew that, they'd be
rolling over in their grave likeI wish they had that
opportunity.
I always say Picasso would havebeen the selfie king of
(43:08):
Instagram, right, if he wasalive, he would have done more
studio selfies than anybody inhistory, and he did it before
there was even Instagram withhis own camera on a tripod, and
this is citizens taking pictures.
So take advantage of what's infront of you, your friends.
(43:29):
If you have trouble buildingconfidence yourself, do things
with your friends.
I have two artists from mymentorship program, jacqueline
Borgian and Vered Brett.
I think they're both members ofVisionary, I'm not sure.
Maybe one of them is.
They do a talk called Big Babythey just get on.
Taken from Jerry Salt's BigBaby.
They just get on and talk abouttheir work and what they're
doing on Instagram and they justdo a live.
Do it for like an hour, butit's just building that
(43:50):
confidence.
So, and do shows with yourfriends.
Grab a bunch of friends, ofartists, and look for a space.
Do it in your apartment.
I've done so many shows in myapartments and houses in the
past.
If you go to my resume, my CV,you'll see house gallery that's
my gallery, gallerists, curators, museum.
(44:11):
They love artists that takeinitiative.
Oh my gosh, if you don't havelines in your resume, do your
own shit.
I've, my wife and I haveemptied out our entire living
room, dining room, kitchen andset up galleries in my house and
then I do a lecture and I talkabout the work and I invite the
community in.
So, yes, melissa, amen, lovethat, kill it.
(44:33):
It's going to be awesome.
And that goes on your CV.
You put it on there.
That's a solo show.
Seriously, that's huge.
When do you get a solo showever?
Do one at your house?
Solo show goes on your resume.
So, yeah, I get fired up aboutthis stuff.
I love you all so much Like I'min this for not just me, but
for all of you.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I love it.
Um, I have one more questionand then we have yeah, we're
good on time, so we have aboutlike nine 10 minutes.
Uh, if anyone wants to ask youadditional questions, um, if
that's still okay.
Um, but I know that you haveyour own artist mentorship
program, so I just want to giveyou an opportunity to share with
everyone the next one you'rehosting or any information on
that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, so right, I'm taking November and December off
to just paint.
Um, I will have applications onmy website.
We'll be.
It's open right now but I won'treally be pushing it out there
until probably next month.
Um, but January, february,march will be my next session.
Um, probably next month, butJanuary, february, march will be
my next session.
It's juried.
So I take I usually have itdepends between 10 and 20
(45:40):
artists that apply and I usuallyaccept five to seven for that
three month period, just becausethat I found that's the best
number of really buildingintimacy as a group of artists.
So I have a group component,but I also have an individual
component.
And this is not a masterclass.
This is not a how to sell art,how to be successful.
This is literally foundationsfor a studio practice and how to
(46:02):
grow in your work.
It's focused on the work, yourwork and helping you really grow
and take risks.
There is goal setting, there isgallery talk, things like that
within the program, but it'sreally me watching, cheerleading
, encouraging and helping youmaybe see things that you're not
able to see with your work andwhere those opportunities are
(46:23):
going to go.
And I've had 62 artists from midcareer to beginning in my
program.
I've had some artists who makea whole lot more money than I do
regularly that are stuck andthey're tired of making what
they're making.
And they're stuck in thegallery world because they have
to make what they're makingbecause of their lifestyle and
(46:43):
what their galleries want, andthey're bored and they hate
their work.
And so I've had artists thathave been in the program and we
work on new ideas and new thingsand how to get bold enough to
pitch those to those galleriesand things.
And so it's three months.
There is a cost, it's a patronfor me, but with all the artists
in my program I am still veryconnected to them.
(47:04):
Some of them have become bestfriends.
Just did a residency with sevenof them in Newfoundland in May
for a month.
We all did a month longresidency together, a group of
artists ranging from 78 yearsold to 26.
It was beautiful, fourdifferent countries.
So I all the information's onmy website.
You can look at it if you'reinterested.
(47:24):
Um, so, and it definitely is acommitment.
So, um, I tell artists all thetime it is a commitment and
there is.
There is a charge for it,because if you're doing
something for free as an artist,you're probably not going to
put everything into it honestly,and that's my own experience.
If you're paying for something,you're an artist.
You're getting everything outof it you can, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for everythingand for showing up.
Um, this was so insightful andinspiring as well.
Um, I'm sure other people feelthe same, but I would love to.
If anyone has any questions, um, I will bring us back to like a
group setting.
Um, yeah, I'll give everyone anopportunity.
(48:09):
Um, you can write a question inthe chat.
I'm happy to ask it out loud totie.
Or you could raise your handvia zoom or with your own real
life hand.
Give everyone a second.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
No, you got questions .
I've got a question.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
All right, michael, and then Clarissa.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Um, ty, I really appreciated, uh, your um advice
on studying and the benefit ofthe ghosts of artists whispering
in your ear.
I love the way that you putthat.
Um, that's something that Ifeel like, uh, I experience in
(48:59):
my studio while I'm working, andI'm just wondering if you could
maybe talk about a coupleartists or specific things that
have been whispered to yourecently in your recent work.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, I mean, there's a few ghosts that are with me
all the time in the studio anduh they're.
Uh, anthony Tappez is with meall the time.
Uh, cy Twombly, joe Mitchell,um, joe Miro, uh, helen
Frankenthaler you know, justnaming some of my favorites who
I've studied, studied, studiedhard.
And now de Kooning, because I'mso entrenched in his biography
(49:28):
that the Dutchman in his brokenEnglish is constantly whispering
things and we actually argue alot because we have
disagreements on some things.
You know, and so, but honestly,when I'm working, there are
times where literally I may putsomething down and then I step
back and take a moment to listenand I kind of think through,
like okay, I'll think through,like okay, well, how would Joan
(49:48):
Mitchell have handled thisnegative space right now?
Somebody who is a master atnegative space, and I'll,
literally it'll take me back towords.
I've heard her speak fromwatching YouTube lectures of
hers all the time old schoolvideo clips and things but also
from reading her biography andreading also biographies of
friends talking about her work.
And I'll hear her talkingthrough moments and things in
(50:11):
her work and how she got thereand those things are so helpful.
Like I said, I'm a forcedintrovert.
I got to force my extroversionin the studio by inviting people
in there right To speak to meand talk to me through things.
But just being able to have anunderstanding of how things work
from the artists who I emulateand I've stolen from, who are my
(50:33):
guides, they're having thatknowledge right.
What does knowledge become?
It becomes wisdom Over theyears.
Those things just get bakedinto your subconscious.
That's the beautiful thingabout neuroscience in the brain.
Those things literally get sobaked into your subconscious
that it becomes secondary toyour original thinking and that
(50:53):
just flows through you in thestudio.
So that's why I say study,study, study, find time to fit
it in love it awesome.
Thank you, yeah, man goodquestion hello, nice to meet you
.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Um, it's been really helpful.
So thank you for all yourwisdom.
Um, I was wondering if youcould give me some advice.
Um, how do you go aboutcreating under a deadline?
I'm experiencing this for thefirst time.
Now.
I'm having my first solo showand I have about three days left
(51:32):
until I can really sendeverything off to framing, and
I'm starting to look at artworksand not like them anymore, and
I feel like it's too late.
When to push through, when toreally start over, like, how to
deal with these?
I guess conflicting thoughts inyour head.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Gosh Kalisha, that's such a great question because
you don't know till you knowright, you have no idea in that
spot you're in.
And so when I'm working on work, I work in bodies of work all
the time, and so I may do 10 to30 pieces in a body of work with
the idea that it will be a soloshow.
So everything I do is visioncast to if I get a solo show,
(52:18):
I'm ready, that's what I do andthat's how I operate.
But in the beginning, when Ihad that solo show and four
months to create in right, it'slike, oh shit, what now?
So I just started working andworking.
I'll tell you that forceddeadline is a great thing
because it makes you really work, but when you get to the end,
it also adds a brand newresistance that you are not
(52:40):
aware of, which is am I reallyhappy with the work that I just
made?
So I always tell artists getthat shit out of your head and
just realize I'm doing the bestI can with what I know right now
, and this experience is what'sgoing to guide me to doing even
better the next time.
(53:00):
So what I say is throw out allthe negative thoughts, breathe
deep, meditate, do something andgo listen.
I'm doing the best work that Icould do today.
Once this work is out the door,you're going to go see the
exhibition.
Don't doubt yourself when yougo see the work on the walls.
Don't doubt things that youthink are weak, that you could
(53:22):
do right now.
Just know, okay, this is alearning experience.
This is my first one.
Take it all in, write notes.
Oh, maybe I could have donethis, maybe I should have done
this.
But here's the thing it writenotes.
Oh, maybe I could have donethis, maybe I should have done
this.
But here's the thing.
(53:42):
It's a solo show.
The art world said yes,somebody said yes to your work
and they're putting it in a show.
That's rare.
I could sit 11 artists, 100artists in the room right now
and say how many of you have hadsolo shows that are either
beginning or lower emerginglevel?
I'd say how many of you havehad solo shows that are either
beginning or lower emerginglevel?
There's going to be very fewpeople that raise their hands
right.
So no, okay, this is the firstsolo show.
Is that what you said?
(54:02):
Number one congratulations.
What a freaking celebration.
If I had champagne right now,I'd pop the bottle and celebrate
.
Only artists know that feeling.
Nobody else in our life knowsthat feeling of selling a piece
or getting a show or any of that.
So congratulations.
So just get in your mind I didthe best I could.
I'm learning.
I'm excited to have thisexperience.
(54:24):
After the show is over, sit downand think through everything.
Think through how that deadlineapproach.
Journal I'm big on journalingThink through that entire
experience.
How did I handle things?
Did I start too late?
Should I have started earlier?
Was I only working on one pieceat a time?
Should I have worked on threeor four at one time?
(54:45):
How could I have made thisexperience fit in to a more
comfortable zone leading up tothe deadline?
Because we're always going to bebutting up against the deadline
.
We're not going to have ourwork done a month or two months
before the show.
We're always going to be going.
Can I have a few more days tosend the work?
I wouldn't advise that.
Get it done.
But that's kind of how we are asartists, because why?
(55:08):
Everything we're doing is takingus somewhere new.
That's art.
The work we're doing today isteaching us about our vision.
Vision is always ahead ofexecution.
The work in our head is neverthe work we're making.
We're not that good yet right,we're just not.
So when you're doing that,you're coming up to the show.
You're starting to look at yourvision rather than what you can
(55:29):
execute on and that's where theresistance really starts to
churn and rather than what youcan execute on, and that's where
the resistance really starts tochurn.
And then fear comes and thensecond guessing.
So just be confident.
You have the opportunity.
We're going to knock this out.
Get the work there, post show.
Look at everything, oh gosh.
Look at everything around youand talk to friends.
Bring that network in.
Hey, what could I have improvedon?
(55:50):
How could I have done better?
Which works did you love?
But find the threads in thoseworks that are leading you to
the next, to the next work.
That's how I view everyopportunity I get now.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Wow, yes, thank you Really send me pictures of the
opening.
I want to see the work.
I want to see the show.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
I will, I will.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Thank you, Ty.
On that note, would you mind doyou have access to the chat, I
think, if it's okay becausewe're at time, I think if you
want to drop your email forpeople to reach out and continue
the conversation with you, Ithink that could be a great way
to connect.
Maybe your at as well, yourInstagram handle.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah, you can also.
Yeah, I'm always answeringquestions on Instagram, too
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
You're the best.
This was just so good.
You have such good energy andare so inspiring.
So thank you again for yourtime and thank you everyone for
participating.
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