March 3, 2025 • 45 mins
Relationships are complex, and understanding them can often feel overwhelming.
In this episode, we dive deep into the intricacies of love, connection, and sexual fluidity with Dr. Frankie Bashan, a clinical psychologist, board-certified sex therapist, and relationship expert with over two decades of experience.
Dr. Frankie shares her expert insights into the challenges people face in their partnerships, shedding light on the critical question: when do we fight for love, and when is it time to seek assistance?
As the CEO & Founder of LittleGayBook.com and LittleBlackBookMatchmaking.com, Dr. Frankie has spent her career connecting people—both heterosexual and LGBTQIA+—through personalized matchmaking and exclusive singles events, helping thousands find meaningful relationships.
She emphasizes the essential role of communication in relationships and explains how mastering the art of expressing ourselves can profoundly impact intimacy and connection.
Dr. Frankie has also appeared on MTV's hit dating show "Are You the One?" and shared her expertise on The Howard Stern Show, showcasing her deep understanding of relationship dynamics and communication on major national platforms.
Throughout the discussion, we explore how empathy, curiosity, and healthy communication can help couples navigate challenges. Dr. Frankie also touches on the nuances of passive-aggressive behavior, emotional landscapes, and when seeking professional help is vital for growth. Relationships are hard, but with the right tools and commitment from both partners, they are worth the effort.
With Dr. Frankie’s unique combination of formal training and emotional intelligence, we gain valuable strategies for fostering emotional connection and relationship success. Whether you're single or in a relationship, this episode offers practical advice that anyone can implement.
Follow Dr. Frankie Bashan:
- Instagram: @drfrankiebashan
- YouTube: Little Gay Book Channel
- Website: Little Gay Book
- Website: Little Black Book Matchmaking
- Facebook: Little Gay Book
- Twitter: @LITTLEGAYBOOK
- TedX Talk: Sexual Fluidity
Don’t forget to subscribe, share this episode with someone who might benefit, and leave a review to help us reach more listeners!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is there a way to make it better?
Is there a room?
Have I tried everything?
Because I do think we make acommitment.
What I'm seeing now is peopleare bouncing prematurely.
When it gets hard, they're outand that's just.
That's going to repeat, that isgoing to play itself out again
and again, no matter who they'rewith, because it's going to get
(00:20):
hard.
Relationships are hard Becauseit's going to get hard.
Relationships are hard.
So you've got to do everythingyou can to try to improve the
relationship.
So seek out services from acoach, a relationship coach,
expert, therapist, psychologist.
Get help, get support, becausemost of us don't have the role
(00:42):
models.
We didn't have them, we don'tknow, we don't have those tools
and skills and there's a lot ofthings now that therapists can
give you to really makesignificant changes in the
relationship.
And when the communication iscoming from a professional, your
partner is going to hear itdifferently.
They're not going to bedefensive, they're going to be
more open, more receptive,likely.
(01:04):
So I think it's a complicatedanswer with your host,
jacqueline Cotton.
Jacqueline Cotton, first I justwant to say I was in another
(01:35):
place and space and time for thelast eight minutes because I
can't seem to figure out thelink, but here I am with you now
I'm so glad you're here, I'm soglad you're here, so glad
you're here and that you made it.
Glad to be here with you.
My gosh, what are we talkingabout today, Girl?
I don't even know yet.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh no, I was reading through all the notes and you
just sound like an incredibleperson and I'm going to learn a
lot, a lot today.
So, dr Frankie, I didn't knowhow to say your last name, I
didn't want to butcher it, andso let's hear I was gonna say
bashan, that's right.
Yeah, we have dr frankie, bashanum, and I would just love for
(02:15):
if you would introduce yourself.
I your credentials.
I was like I can't even keep up, uh, and you are just like.
Your expertise is unfathomablefor me.
I'm business coaching and Iused to do life coaching, but
when it comes to relationships,I've been the best at those.
I don't have the best trackrecord, and so I would just love
(02:39):
if you would introduce yourselfand your zone of genius and how
you are making the world abetter place, with my audience
listening to Just Women TalkingShit.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Sure thing, I'm a clinical psychologist with over
two decades of experience.
I'm also a board certified sextherapist and I'm a matchmaker
by profession.
So in 2009, I opened amatchmaking firm to really serve
a population that wasstruggling, which are
professional women who don'thave a lot of time, that want to
(03:11):
find love and want to be inlong-term relationships but
can't find their match.
So it's I definitely it allties into the same sort of
passion, which is in connectingpeople with one another, in
teaching them how to havehealthy relationships, so giving
(03:34):
them the tools, the skills, theconfidence, all of that.
That's what I do, that's mylife's work.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, I love it so much .
You said what are we going totalk about?
Well, I feel like it's justgoing to unfold very naturally,
but what I want to hear about,what I'm taking away from that
immediately, is communication,and that is something that so
many of us struggle with.
It's just hard.
It's hard to communicate,especially when you weren't
taught to communicate.
You know, as a kid I was nottaught to communicate.
(04:02):
I was taught to yell to getdefensive and to let this
fucking recluse play victim.
And so then, when I did startfinding my voice and that was
with, like my mom, but alsorelationships it can be very
intimidating because you want touse your voice and you don't
know how to communicate, or thatperson doesn't know how to
(04:23):
communicate, so they're notreceptive.
There's so many facets of thatI feel like you could dive into.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And I think most people that are listening right
now can relate to thatexperience, because often it's
like people either escalatequickly because they feel like
they're not getting heard, andit's hard to.
When you feel like you're notbeing heard, it's hard not to
just want to raise your voiceright and shut down what the
other person is saying becauseit's not in alignment with your
(04:51):
experience.
So, unless you acquire skills,you're just going to keep
repeating a pattern of behaviorthat's not actually working for
anybody.
So, first of all, when you'reangry, you can't even begin to
have a conversation.
So don't even bother.
That's the first thing, andcommunication, like you said, is
(05:12):
key.
So it's the most importantthing.
You've got to find a way tocommunicate in a way where you
can hear each other, and thatmeans you've got to talk at a
normal volume level, a healthy,normal tone, not a condescending
or a tone with contempt.
So you're talking about whereright, it's subtle nuances.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, I was going to say what do you mean?
Because I so I'm married and wehave he had three boys coming
into this.
Wow, I have a girl, I have agirl, and then we wound up
having a boy.
So it's a whirlwind, blendingfamilies, and we're five years
in and I'm just like it's a lot.
It's a lot of learning,communicating, all the things.
(05:56):
But one thing I've really beenstriving to work towards is
being able to communicate withhim in a way that doesn't make
him feel like I'm condescending.
In a way that doesn't make himfeel like I'm condescending, or
because I made it my mission tomaster emotional intelligence,
to overcome trauma, to be ableto communicate in a way that
doesn't make people feel little.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So what do you mean by contempt?
I think if you go into it beingcurious and empathetic and not
wanting to win the argumentbecause when we want to win
we're like we're scrappy, we'regoing to fight, we're going in
guns blazing Instead, if therecan be a reframe where you're
like curious, babe, what, whathappened there?
I care, I love you, what justhappened?
(06:40):
And if you can't be curious andempathetic in that moment which
most of us can if we're angryand we've been triggered and
we're just quickly stirred up,we need to go.
You know what?
Something just happened.
Let's step away from this for afew minutes and come back.
It's important to me, it'simportant to us in the
relationship.
Let's circle back, let's takean hour and if you're not ready
(07:09):
at that point, you take anotherhour and you keep rechecking in.
So what's contempt?
Eye rolling like that?
It's an attitude that is toxic.
It's not in the interest ofhealing, repairing.
It doesn't convey care.
Care doesn't convey love.
So you got to get into thathead space of like we're two
humans doing the best that wecan.
(07:31):
We come from differentbackgrounds, we have different
experiences of trauma.
So that's where you've got toreally pull on the empathy part
of ourselves.
It's there, you just have tolike, you have to consciously
tap into it.
It's not going to happen on itsown, because we're wired for
survival.
We're going to mesh it, we'regoing to make, we're going to
(07:51):
make it clear where he wentwrong.
You know what I mean.
This is where you need to dobetter.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's not the solution, for sure it's just
when you were talking aboutgetting scrappy like, the
trailer park in me came out andjust imagine throwing hands like
Jerry Springer style.
There's a documentary out onthat.
I just started watching it lastnight, by the way.
Did you ever watch?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Jerry Springer.
Oh well, I've seen it.
I'm not going to lie, I've seenit.
It's hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's real hard to watch, I bet, especially if
someone is trying to bringpeople together.
But that shit was scrappy.
Speaking of scrappy, sodysfunctional, that's what my
mind just put together.
We do when you do have thesetriggers and there's unresolved.
For instance, my husband and Iare so different.
(08:40):
Our traumas are different.
We both have mom issues right,I've got mom and dad issues.
Who doesn't?
I'm hella yeah, I'm hellafucked up, but I think everybody
is.
And yes, but like, whenever itcomes to communicating, it's
like it can be such a challengebecause he's so calm and
collected and just a face ofstone and like, and I'm just,
(09:03):
I'm over here.
This is how I feel, detail bydetail.
This is what I need, this iswhat I expect, and sometimes I
think he's sitting back anddigesting.
He's not an emotional person.
He does not show emotion.
It's very hard to get that manto cry.
The only thing that did it.
Babe, I love you.
We're listening.
He didn't cry when our son wasborn, but but that man has.
(09:29):
I know he's added in himbecause a star is born.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
That's a good one.
So funny.
What a hoax emotion in us.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right, but it just it showed me that I did.
I don't quite understand him,but what he is willing to, I
don't know.
Maybe he felt safe in thatenvironment, not in front of all
these doctors, and anyway.
So I guess what I'm getting atis when you have two people who
are one is super.
I'm heavily involved inpersonal development.
I just got super into fitness.
(09:56):
I've lost 50 pounds.
I am ready to take on thefucking world.
I'm in my dirty 30s.
I'm finally at that point in mylife where I'm comfortable in
my own skin.
I feel sexy and part of that islike very intellectual for me.
I don't ever want to quitlearning, but I guess what I'm
asking is because if I gothrough this, I know other women
(10:17):
are going through it, but mentoo.
But you have a partner who maybeone partner is super emotional.
I'm called highly, a highlysensitive person and I have
mental illness battles withinmyself, right and so, and then
the trauma, yada, yada, yada.
But I am highly sensitive andhighly receptive to energy and
you can tell me you're okay, butI can feel you're not okay the
(10:40):
way your, your mannerisms, theway you just worry that shit in
the dishwasher.
So how do you?
What is your advice to thepeople out there that, like they
feel so different?
One is like I'm here, I'mlistening, and then the other
one's like you feel like maybethey're not listening.
You're sitting there and you'relike I know you're here
physically, but why haven'tthese things, things that are
(11:01):
important to me, why don't theyseem important to you?
Are you really listening?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Oh my gosh, so many thoughts, so so many.
Let me, let me.
Let me grab them all as they'repopping up.
I threw a lot at you, I'm sorry.
The first thing most of us arereally different from our
partners because the oppositesattract, and that's true.
I know it sounds cliche, butwe're attracted to what's
(11:30):
different, right Differencesfrom us, somebody who's
different in style.
There's a yin and yang and abalance and you want to be
careful not to make assumptions.
So just because he's quietdoesn't mean that he doesn't
care, doesn't mean that he's notfeeling a lot of emotion.
Men are wired like.
Let's be real, men are wireddifferently than women.
It can take them longer toprocess and understand what's
happening and formulate aresponse.
So it's really important togive them space to be able to
(11:51):
just be who they are and notassume that they're not feeling,
they don't care, they're notthinking.
They're there with you, theyare present and it may look like
it, but assume good, this iswhere we go down the wrong, like
the rabbit hole, right, we needto assume that they're there
because they care and becausethey love us.
They're just different, fullstop and give them space and you
(12:16):
can say no, I'm expressive.
I know I'm a lot, and let'scome back.
I wanna hear your thoughts.
I wanna give you time and spaceto process.
Can we come back?
I want to hear your thoughts, Iwant to give you time and space
to process.
Can we come back to this?
So it's about allowing, allowinghim to be different than you
and allowing him the space andtime to get to a place where he
can answer and give you, giveyou, a response that's honest
(12:38):
and authentic, because otherwiseyou don't want that.
You don't want him to justreact and to give you something
that's actually not even right.
It doesn't.
It's just a reaction, it's notan action.
We want to be acting inrelationship, not reacting, and
the only way to get to a pointwhere you can act on something
(12:59):
thoughtfully you have to havetime to think, and when you're I
, jacqueline, I know because Ican relate to you I'm fiery and
I'm quick.
My words come quick.
I know exactly what I'm feelingand I can, I can tell you right
now what you're feeling.
Just imagine if you have adoctorate in political
psychology and all these yearsof experience.
You really think the otherperson's feeling and thinking
(13:20):
All bad, right, I got to justchill out, share a little bit as
calmly as I can.
If not, again abort mission andcome back later and speak about
my experience.
I can't tell you.
This is how you're acting andthis is how you're feeling.
I used to.
It was fire, fire, fire.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And he, because he's so calm and collected, has
pulled me back.
He knows, jacqueline, you needto take 24 to 48 hours to think
on that, and I've gotten betterabout that and so.
But here's one thing that werun into, Because I've gotten
good at that and like I do drop.
It's not hints, it's verydirect things that are
(14:07):
non-negotiables.
Things are important for meright as I evolve, things that
that just you change, you shiftas a human you evolve, right?
I guess one thing that, becauseI've learned from him like that
to take time to, to think aboutthings, I almost wonder, wonder
if and women out there listening, please write me if you do this
(14:28):
too, but it's not like it.
I feel like it may feel to himlike some things come out of
nowhere, but the reality isthat's where it goes to, the.
Do our partners and women dothis shit too?
Are they listening?
Because it's just like.
Sometimes it feels like itcomes out of.
I feel like he probably feelslike it comes out of nowhere the
(14:50):
important conversations, andI'm like well, when does it come
?
I try to almost build up to theconversations, but what is your
, what's your stance on that?
When you do start to learn fromyour partner to take time, let
them be themselves, like becausewe had a really intense
conversation about two days ago,um, and that's part of the
blended family thing.
Like my daughter, it's reallyreally hard for them to connect
(15:13):
and that is something that, as aparent, is very hard to accept.
So it's not a situation thatI'm throwing on him.
We've been together five yearsnow, right, but it sometimes
feels like because I've learnedfrom him to take space and
really think it through before Ihave a big conversation.
It comes out left field.
Is there any way around that,or do you just continue to do
(15:36):
the best you can and hope thatthey feel that it is coming from
love, that you have taken thetime to think about it, because
it can be a lot.
It feels like you're throwing alot at them, but it's like.
These are the things I'mfeeling.
I just want you to know so thatwhen you're ready to respond,
you can respond.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's an ongoing dialogue.
I think, like when you have ablended family, there's so much
complexity.
The kids are different ages,different personality styles,
right Different dispositions,and then there's the two of you
trying to show up for eachother's kids.
This is complex and thenthere's exes.
We don't even want to get intothat right.
(16:17):
So all these dynamics, so youneed to make a commitment to
yourself and each other and therelationship to have an ongoing
conversation, and sometimes theconversations are going to be
tense and but other times thatthey're just going to be kind of
curious and easy and if you'reboth in a really good headspace,
there's going to be more room.
(16:38):
If you both feeling like it'sdate night and say there's
something you're both feelingreally good and connected.
You just had great sex thenight before.
Now you've got date night,you're sitting there eating good
food together and you know whatI'm talking about where you
feel really connected and it'srelaxed, that's a good time to
bring up something nothing toocrazy, but to talk about it when
(17:00):
both people are like disarmedand if it's an ongoing
conversation that you'rerevisiting, not from a place of
wanting to fight, from a placeof wanting to feel seen and
heard and to continue to makeprogress.
It's like you want theintention to be, not to change
his behavior.
That's the other thing that'sreally important, very, very,
(17:20):
very important.
It's about just expressing yourexperience and feeling heard.
It's not about getting him tochange what he does and how he
does what he does Beautifullysaid, beautifully said.
Allow him to be who he is.
The change happens within us,has to happen within you, and
(17:41):
when you make a change withinyourself, it changes the whole
system.
You have a family system goingon there.
Everybody has a role in thatsystem.
If you were to sit down and mapit out, you could label
everybody's role in that familysystem your daughter, his kid.
You know what I mean.
All of the.
So once you tweak your behavior, just slightly, turn the dial,
(18:05):
it's going to impact everybodyand you'll see shifts happening.
So focus on changing yourselfto see a different right, a
difference.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
For sure that is so it's.
This isn't me, but I'm alreadydoing that, but I am doing that.
If knew my story, oh my god.
2024 was wild and I've seen Idid notice.
I started working out andstarted losing weight.
In the beginning we would go onwalks together and then that
kind of stopped and then Inoticed I was depending on him
(18:38):
and then one day I was just likeyou know what I'm over this
shit and I started going and Ijust made that commitment to
myself.
But what was funny was it wentfrom and I think this is what
you're saying is whenever I tookthe pressure off of him to
let's do this together and Ijust started going to the gym
and he saw how consistent I wasand he could see my body
transforming.
You know like we're having sexand he's like whoa, is this my
(19:01):
wife?
You know like we're having sexand he's like whoa is this my
wife?
Your body looks different.
It was so funny.
He started going on walks andhe works out in the garage and
stuff like that, and so is thatwhat you mean?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That's a perfect example.
Yes, because he's watching youprioritize yourself.
He's seeing that there areactual physical changes for you.
You're also how you're showingup is going to change a little
bit.
You're going to feel more like.
You're going to feel yourself.
You know what I mean.
You feel more confident, youfeel sexier, you're more
interested in connecting.
(19:34):
You know how it is sexuallyLike you, you liking your body
more, so you may be morecomfortable sexually with him,
right?
So he's like, wow, she got itgoing on.
I want some of that.
That would be good for me, thatwould be good for our
relationship.
So you're not even asking him.
Hey, babe, come on, you're solazy.
(19:55):
See, that's another thing.
You've got to be very carefulnot to criticize, right?
That's it.
That's toxic.
You're so lazy.
Here I am doing this, I'mworking out, I'm doing all these
things to take care of myself.
You're selfishly sleeping in.
That all has to be.
So it's.
You demonstrate, you model yourhope Like there's a hope.
(20:16):
There can be a hope there thathe joins.
But let him get to that.
Allow him to be himself.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
A hundred million Cause I don't know what numbers
come after that.
Agree with that, but because itis, and so it's, he's taught me
so, so much and he's definitelycalmed me down and made me a
better person for sure.
So all this is hitting home.
You said something about theinsults.
(20:43):
That's one thing I used to do.
I was so insecure, but I had nogood relationships to build off
of no good examples whatsoever.
And I remember, with mydaughter's dad especially, being
so insecure and he passed awayin 2020.
So that's a whole thing on itsown, but I so there's like a
(21:06):
survivor's guilt and like I wasbitch so many times.
But there's like I remembertimes where I would be upset,
like hurt me or something, andso what would I do?
I would emasculate the fuck outof him.
And looking back now I'm like Idon't condone violence, but as a
bitch, I could see myselfslapping myself with the way I
(21:29):
acted and I like there weretimes where I was.
I like acted when I was drunk,like the beginning of a
relationship, and I remember himtelling me like never do it
again.
I'm gone and but I see in myline of work like um, because at
the end of the day, you'restill a life coach.
Whatever coach you are, peoplecome to you with their problems,
right.
But I see this a lot womencomplaining about their partners
(21:52):
and like if they were talkingabout me that way behind my back
, I don't, that would fuckinghurt.
It would hurt like so theemasculating, I can't believe I
was that way.
First off, it's really sad.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Be loving towards yourself and have compassion.
Right Like this is where theskills come in.
Like you didn't have rolemodels teaching you how to fight
fairly.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And he didn't either.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's the thing.
So it's like you didn't knowany better and now you're
learning and it's your intentionto continue to do better.
So that's all we can do is tocontinue to work on evolving and
be better and be kinder, likewe need more cut.
Today more than ever, I feellike in my career I'm like to
channel as much as possible togive and chat like like all that
(22:42):
energy of kindness and love,acceptance for to understand
difference, right.
So the thing is you cancomplain totally acceptable to
complain and be like babe, I'mso frustrated, there's dishes in
the sink again.
Can you just like more mindfulof the fact that I don't want to
come home and see dishes?
(23:02):
I would just and just have it.
Be like it doesn't have to bean argument, it can be just a
complaint and that's it.
Where it becomes problematic iswhen you start to criticize and
it's like you start to characterassault.
You see, you're just like yourfather.
Your mom talks about how lazyhe is and how sloppy and messy
(23:23):
he is, and I can see it in you.
That's all bad Like.
These are things.
These behaviors eventuallybuild and lead to divorce, like
John Gottman, I don't know.
I'm sure folks who listen arelistening.
Some are familiar.
30, 40 years of research onrelationships, what works and
what doesn't work, and contemptand criticism does not work.
(23:47):
Defensiveness, right.
When you express yourself andyour partner turns around and
says, yeah, you did yesterdayand you, okay, you do that too,
and here are the ways that youdo that, what does that do?
It invalidates what you'resaying.
It means that, like, basically,it sends a message that there's
no right, like getting anywherehere.
(24:09):
We're not making progress.
You're not feeling heard orunderstood.
Now it's just a fight.
Now you're in the ring.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, passive aggressiveness come into all of
this, because that's somethingthat I'm for sure guilty of it.
I know I am, but when andthat's another reason I want to
understand it like we do that,um, I'm learning to like ask for
help and step back and be likewait, that was.
It was kind of like that dayyou're being nobody around.
(24:40):
You deserve that, but how doyou so that I understand?
So I don't do it.
And then, when my partner oreven my children are super
passive-aggressive or like momor just people like we do it
right, don't know how to channelthose emotions and ask for help
, where does all this come intoplay?
And like, do you navigate that?
(25:00):
Do you?
You continue to like they saythey're okay and it's very
obvious they're not.
Do you offer help again?
Do you ask a different way?
Do you embrace them and like,can we calm down?
Give them a hug, like you do?
Do you give them space?
I don't know what the fuck todo.
I don't even know what to dowith my person.
What do I do with this personwho's like I'm okay, but it's
(25:21):
like they're not okay?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That's a good question.
Oh my gosh, you ask really goodquestions.
It's so fun.
Okay, all of us probably cansee at different points in time
how we've behaved in this way.
It's if you're not reallyactively observing and working
hard to not be passive,aggressive and really to be
assertive, honest and authenticwith how you're feeling, it's
going to come out unconsciously,inadvertently, in
(25:46):
passive-aggressive ways.
Number one, right?
So this is why I saycommunicate, communicate,
communicate as much as possible,but obviously not
over-communicate.
You don't want to kill yourrelationship by, like, overly
processing.
That's a whole other thing,we'll get into that later.
So when somebody is beingpassive, aggressive, it's
they're hurting.
When we're being passive,aggressive, we're hurting and
(26:09):
we're not accessing our tools,we're not showing up at our
highest selves to be mature,adult in the relationship and
really share what likevulnerability in us.
What's hurting us about what'shappening the behavior.
Vulnerability in us, what'shurting us about what's
happening, the behavior.
It is not our job to getsomebody else to talk.
(26:29):
You know what I mean to behavedifferently.
So here's the allowing again,you allow them to do what
they're doing and youacknowledge that.
Oh, that seems passive,aggressive, that's hurting me.
I can have boundaries so youcan remove yourself, you can
right, you have options and youcan decide.
You know what I'm opting out.
I'm not going to engage in thepassive aggressivity.
(26:50):
I'm not going to reinforce itat all, I'm going to steer clear
.
So really, it's about youhaving healthy boundaries and
not participating in it, causethen you're in, then you're
right.
You're like reinforcing thatbehavior, cause now you're just,
then you're right.
You're like reinforcing thatbehavior, cause now you're just
responding to it.
It's like a kid who's having atemper tantrum.
Do we then play into that or dowe just go?
(27:15):
I'm right, mommy's right, righthere, I love you and I'm going
to be right over here when youare done kicking and screaming
on the cement.
Right over here.
When you are done kicking andscreaming on the cement, I'm
right here.
You know where to find me Right.
And then they're like oh shit,it's not working.
Oh my God, now I'm embarrassed.
I've made a whole scene infront of all these people.
They get up and they like.
(27:35):
So I just could see my sondoing this, because this
happened a few times and it onlyhappened a few times because it
didn't work.
So that's the thing.
If you don't participate in it,it actually will resolve itself
, because most of us have theability of self-reflection and
shame.
We don't want to keep actinglike that.
(27:55):
Don't feel good.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So you say I've got good questions.
A couple more questions.
I don't even know what time itis.
Give them to me, quite okay.
So with the whole past, you saythat it should dissipate if we
don't give attention to itprofessionally, because I'm I'm
big on like my clients come tome uh, it's, you know, it's
money.
They want to make more money,they want to live life you're
(28:21):
happy, and and often that alsoincludes like trinity and
allowing themselves to receivelike that partner or um,
sometimes it's letting go ofthat partner, right, um, to make
room for like for them, um, andso with I live in the south I
don't know if you figured thatout with my accent but it's very
(28:43):
cute, by the way.
You're so beautiful, by the way.
I meant, like such a gorgeouswoman, you've got this.
I don't know, I mean, I haven'tgot to put my finger on it, but
you've got this.
Um, it's really, she's like aclassic.
I'll I'll think of it later but, uh, but this very classic look
that I can't put my finger on,love it.
(29:05):
Thank you, oh my God, what wasI saying though?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, professional, they want to meet their person.
They have to change theiridentity.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Like your clients, so , like I say, at what point do
you just like the wholepassive-aggressive thing?
What I think of is I'm taught,I was taught, I've been taught
from a very young age, beinglike I was in church,
pentecostal, all the things,speaking on tongues, wow, okay,
(29:36):
yeah, I what I was taught andI'm not saying I'm not that I
opted out of that whole thing,um, but we were taught and it's
still very prominent in theSouth, in the Bible belt, like
ever.
You just put up with it,especially as a woman, like by
your man and you.
You see them through everything.
So like, thank God, I love, Ilove you and I miss you, grandma
(29:59):
, but I just what's coming tomind is like my grandmother.
She died in her early 60s andshe was like, oh, ready to go?
Send me to jesus, I'm ready.
And it broke my fucking heartbecause she was like mine, the
perfect woman.
She took care of my papa.
She was like t-bone steaksevery other night, hand and foot
(30:19):
waiting on him, and she put upwith shit she put up with so
much shit cheating?
I've heard some insane storiesfrom my mother.
What point is like okay, notpaying attention to this tantrum
?
Is that enough like you justcontinue to compromise and be
like, okay, I'm not going toparticipate in that fit and
(30:41):
embrace all the other goodthings?
Or is that something that youthink is a non-negotiable, that
nobody should ever have to justput up with that kind of
behavior forever?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, it's so case by case.
It's tough to sit down and havemeetings with ourselves and get
really quiet and honest andreal, have alone time and get to
the beach, go to the mountainsand just sit and reflect Like is
there still good in thisrelationship?
(31:14):
Why am I here?
What do I get from thisrelationship?
Am I feeling joy?
Do I feel overall happy?
You've got to be like in thereal content and kind of joy and
happiness in your relationship.
If the if it's flipped theother way, then you should be
asking yourself is this where Iwant to be?
And if it's not where I want tobe, is there a way to make it
(31:37):
better?
Is there a room?
Have I tried everything?
Because I do think we make acommitment to like, enter into a
relationship.
What I'm seeing now is peopleare bouncing prematurely.
When it gets hard, they're outand that's just they're going to
.
That's going to repeat, that isgoing to play itself out again
and again, no matter who they'rewith, because it's going to get
(31:59):
hard.
Relationships are hard, so it'syou got to do everything you
can to try to improve therelationship.
So seek out, you know, servicesfrom a coach a relationship
coach, expert, therapist,psychologist, a coach, a
(32:20):
relationship coach, expert,therapist, psychologist Get help
, get support, because most ofus don't have the role models.
We didn't have them, we don'tknow, we don't have those tools
and skills and there's a lot ofthings now that therapists can
give you to really makesignificant changes in the
relationship.
And when the communication iscoming from a professional, your
partner is going to hear itdifferently.
(32:41):
They're not going to bedefensive, they're going to be
more open, more receptive,likely.
So I think it's a complicatedanswer and I think if you know
that you've exhausted everypossibility in improving the
relationship and more often thannot you're pretty unhappy,
maybe even miserable, then maybeit's time to call it quits.
(33:04):
But remember, one thing I wantto do, I want to say, is that
the human condition is mostlysuffering.
That's what we've all we'rebeing lied to.
The messaging that we'resurrounded with is you should be
happy, you shouldn't feel sadmore often than not, because, if
(33:25):
you are, you should takemedication because you're a
depressed person, when thereality is that we tend towards
suffering.
We do it towards.
This is just our nature, humannature.
So let's be realistic also whenwe're thinking about like our
level of happiness and right, soevery day shouldn't be what
(33:46):
we're going like.
Of course it'd be beautiful ifwe could be joyful and happy
every single day.
It's just not realistic,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is it okay to people in your line of work?
Have you do people just growapart?
Is that a thing or is it anexcuse?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I think that if both people really want to be in
something, they can likely staytogether.
They can create the gluebetween each other to not grow
apart.
It's when people stop doing thework and not communicating as
much they're going outside oftheir relationship to get most
of their needs met.
They're inevitably going tostart to veer away from one
(34:29):
another.
It has to be an active efforton both sides to maintain the
relationship.
So no, I don't believe youreally grow apart.
You can, but in general mostpeople it's about them not doing
the work Makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay, I want you to tell me a little bit about your
book in a minute.
But for for everybody listeningwho like, okay, I'll be a
better partner, maybe I shouldtake a different approach,
different angle at this.
How I bring things up.
Do you have any tips on how tolike conversations or like?
What I'm looking more for islike not a script, but like what
(35:08):
you could say, so they don'tfeel like you're attacking them,
like the whole thing I'velearned um is, when I
communicate, I don't tell him.
You make me feel.
I say so.
What happened about fiveminutes ago?
Like they were doing this andthis man, like I, felt triggered
and I think it's.
I don't know where it's comingfrom, but like situation made me
feel this way or that's how II'm taking it.
(35:31):
So just hearing someone like aprofessional say don't ever
because they feel attacked,right Like and I can't tell them
how they're feeling and hecan't tell me how I'm feeling.
Nobody fucking knows how I'mfeeling, but I don't know how to
communicate that.
So what are some things?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
we could say.
So what you just said isextremely important Remove you
Speak from I, so use Istatements and you can look them
up.
Very simply.
I feel you want to start withan emotion.
I feel really sad or I feelreally frustrated or angry,
(36:08):
because yesterday, when we wereoutside the school remember when
this, like standing that yousee there's no you, it's like yo
and I really in that situation,once you you create some
context, you say you know, Iwould have really preferred it
if it could have been handledthis way instead.
(36:28):
You see what I mean?
I feel frustrated when thissituation happened and I would
have.
I would really appreciate it ifit could be handled this way
instead.
And you can search, look online, like I statements.
There will be a ton of examples.
So that's there's that.
The other thing is, you want toreally be careful of using
(36:50):
absolutes.
You always do this.
You never show me affection,for example.
You always lose your shit.
You always lose your temper.
You, you never show up.
You know you never come.
You always never right that.
Those are absolutes.
(37:10):
Remove those as well, becauseit's too black and white.
Remove those as well, becauseit's too black and white it's.
It's often where it's nuancedand we're in the gray.
But our mind is very, can bevery black and white, unless we
keep right, unless we aretraining ourselves to think
about the gray more.
Be in the gray Cause it's notalways true.
(37:32):
No one is always one way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
And something I've heard recently that is just like
that makes sense.
It's like things can be true atthe same time.
His truth is his truth, mytruth is my truth, same with my
mom.
Like we've navigated the pastfew years and she came out and
she told me she said, man, thethings that you tell me, because
she struggled with drugaddiction and she wasn't around
(37:56):
all the time, so there's liketrauma there.
But she finally came out andtold me she was like I'm just
thinking that the shit thatyou're talking about I had no
idea about because I don'tremember any of it, and so, like
her truth is so different thanmy truth and you said something
earlier that I feel like we cantie this all together.
But before we talk about yourbook, real quick, um is, was it?
(38:18):
What was I saying?
I have like ADHD oh, I do too sowhen you get the squirrel brain
thing, oh yeah, and then it'llcome back to you when we're off
the call oh no, no, no, it wasyou said the, the, uh, the
effort to understand, orsomething or effort to
understand, or something oreffort to understand.
Maybe Be curious.
Well, the curiosity, yeah, justleading like curiosity and it
(38:43):
goes for me emotionalintelligence and being able to
separate myself and just be likelay the facts out, this is what
they, this is how they sawthings and not take it so
personal, has been real big.
But I think that's somethingthat a lot of us struggle to do,
Like we're to take politics forentrance, Like we'll could just
take themselves out of theequation and be like okay,
(39:05):
interest in just trying tounderstand the other side.
I think it's huge Right.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And not make assumptions.
We're making so manyassumptions, and that's what we
do in relationship too.
We assume we know what ourpartner is thinking and feeling
yep, okay, so quick.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
What like the fuck are you up to?
I've seen, when I was lookingat your social media, like I
mean you have been on some tv,maybe some like, and you've had
a book, um, and I don't knowyou're.
I've seen you everywhere.
But can you tell everybody like, find you what you're doing
right now, where to find yourbook?
What is your book about?
Or do you have multiple books?
That's all the one book.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So I actually don't have a book published yet.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Oh, I have been working on it.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Little gay book.
So little gay book is mymatchmaking company that is
LGBTQ, and little black book isheterosexual matchmaking.
So if you're straight, go toLittle Black Book matchmaking.
If you're queer, go tolittlegaybookcom and you can
learn all about how we do whatwe do and how we help people
(40:12):
find love and schedule a callwith us.
We're happy to hop on a callfor 15 minutes or so and chat
with you about your questionsaround that and explain how we
do what we do.
I've been published around along time, so it's been 16 years
Amazing Since I launched thecompany and I hope to have my
book done this year and it willbe about how all the things
(40:33):
we're talking about how to havea healthy, successful, long-term
relationship in a digital agethat is doing everything
possible to undermine oursuccess in relationship by
giving us all these messages andmaking things people.
It's too I bet you've heardthis how we have such easy
access to one another nowthrough Facebook.
People are rekindling love andfantasy and idealizing right.
(40:58):
They're getting back togetherwith their first love from high
school.
They're bouncing from theirfamily and right Like.
There's so much easy access nowand it makes it really hard to
maintain good boundaries becausethere's temptation all around
us.
We're human, we're going tohave temptation, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
That grass is greener on the other side and social
media presents it as likesomething better, like I
literally fall victim to that.
I posted in my stories theother day and it was it's not to
be passive.
My husband's not on socialmedia al he's like nine years
older than me.
Only reason I'm there is that'show I make a living, right, but
(41:34):
it's so accessible like these Idon't know how they are in real
life, but they're making itlook good, taking care of their
wives like food, and I'm likenot real men like this exist not
real?
that's literally my question.
Do men anytime I post anythinglike that, I'm like men like
this actually exist, or is itall for the fucking camera?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
it's entertainment, it's all for the fucking camera.
It's entertainment, it's allfor the camera.
It's annoying.
So let's not like not greeneron the other side.
So let's work in being inrelationship and seeing if we
can grow ourselves and evolveand get our relationship to a
place that really feelsfulfilling.
So what else?
Just find me, I'm all.
Just Dr Frankie, you can findme.
I was on Howard Stern a fewweeks ago, amazing.
(42:18):
I'll be on again soon.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Shut the front door.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, no spoiler.
I can't tell you what, but yougot to go check it out.
On Sirius Radio and I was theexpert on Are you the One?
Mtv's Are you the One?
First sexually fluid cast.
I was the doctor on the showand season eight, which was
amazing and so fun.
(42:42):
Yeah, I've done lots.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I'm so.
I like how big you were.
That's like I feel so honoredright now to even have you here.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Whoever your publicist is, thank you, thank
you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I'll let her know.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, I'm a writer too.
She's wonderful, she, thank you.
Thank you, I'll let her know.
Yeah, I write her too.
She's wonderful, she's sowonderful.
But what was I going to say?
I feel like a douche because Iread Little Gay Book and I was
like she's got books out.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
That's what people assume, and I feel I'm always
like, oh my gosh, because peoplewill say where's your book?
How can I find it?
I'm like, ah, I don't have abook I have.
I have like notebooks full ofmy book that I just need to pull
together.
So 2025, that's my goal, butI've.
I'm such a visionary, there'sso many other things I've been
doing and I get pulled in allthese different directions that
(43:29):
I'm like yes to MTV, yes to that.
And I'm one person.
I only have so many hours in aday.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So yeah, keep doing you, you are incredible.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
This has been so good so so so, so, so good.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Is there anything else that you would like to say?
I have like a and I just saypart with what's on your heart.
If you had any last words ofwisdom and then I'll let you go,
because I know you're a busywoman on Howard Stern and shit.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
The last thing I want to say is that just remember
that we're all human and we'reimperfect, and as long as our
intention daily is to be kind toourselves and be kind to others
, that's what.
That's what it takes to allelevate, to drive all of us to
rise, is to just spread kindnessand be kind to yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
This is the Southern girl on me, but amen, amen to
that.
Thank you so much.
Seriously, it just changed mylife with all that information.
That's it y'all, dr FrankieBichon.
It's been an honor.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Thank you again, and I hope you have a beautiful day
on purpose, you too.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Bye.
Is there a way to make it better?
Is there a room?
Have I tried everything?
Because I do think we make acommitment.
What I'm seeing now is peopleare bouncing prematurely.
When it gets hard, they're outand that's just.
That's going to repeat, that isgoing to play itself out again
and again, no matter who they'rewith, because it's going to get
(00:20):
hard.
Relationships are hard Becauseit's going to get hard.
Relationships are hard.
So you've got to do everythingyou can to try to improve the
relationship.
So seek out services from acoach, a relationship coach,
expert, therapist, psychologist.
Get help, get support, becausemost of us don't have the role
(00:42):
models.
We didn't have them, we don'tknow, we don't have those tools
and skills and there's a lot ofthings now that therapists can
give you to really makesignificant changes in the
relationship.
And when the communication iscoming from a professional, your
partner is going to hear itdifferently.
They're not going to bedefensive, they're going to be
more open, more receptive,likely.
(01:04):
So I think it's a complicatedanswer with your host,
jacqueline Cotton.
Jacqueline Cotton, first I justwant to say I was in another
(01:35):
place and space and time for thelast eight minutes because I
can't seem to figure out thelink, but here I am with you now
I'm so glad you're here, I'm soglad you're here, so glad
you're here and that you made it.
Glad to be here with you.
My gosh, what are we talkingabout today, Girl?
I don't even know yet.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh no, I was reading through all the notes and you
just sound like an incredibleperson and I'm going to learn a
lot, a lot today.
So, dr Frankie, I didn't knowhow to say your last name, I
didn't want to butcher it, andso let's hear I was gonna say
bashan, that's right.
Yeah, we have dr frankie, bashanum, and I would just love for
(02:15):
if you would introduce yourself.
I your credentials.
I was like I can't even keep up, uh, and you are just like.
Your expertise is unfathomablefor me.
I'm business coaching and Iused to do life coaching, but
when it comes to relationships,I've been the best at those.
I don't have the best trackrecord, and so I would just love
(02:39):
if you would introduce yourselfand your zone of genius and how
you are making the world abetter place, with my audience
listening to Just Women TalkingShit.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Sure thing, I'm a clinical psychologist with over
two decades of experience.
I'm also a board certified sextherapist and I'm a matchmaker
by profession.
So in 2009, I opened amatchmaking firm to really serve
a population that wasstruggling, which are
professional women who don'thave a lot of time, that want to
(03:11):
find love and want to be inlong-term relationships but
can't find their match.
So it's I definitely it allties into the same sort of
passion, which is in connectingpeople with one another, in
teaching them how to havehealthy relationships, so giving
(03:34):
them the tools, the skills, theconfidence, all of that.
That's what I do, that's mylife's work.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, I love it so much .
You said what are we going totalk about?
Well, I feel like it's justgoing to unfold very naturally,
but what I want to hear about,what I'm taking away from that
immediately, is communication,and that is something that so
many of us struggle with.
It's just hard.
It's hard to communicate,especially when you weren't
taught to communicate.
You know, as a kid I was nottaught to communicate.
(04:02):
I was taught to yell to getdefensive and to let this
fucking recluse play victim.
And so then, when I did startfinding my voice and that was
with, like my mom, but alsorelationships it can be very
intimidating because you want touse your voice and you don't
know how to communicate, or thatperson doesn't know how to
(04:23):
communicate, so they're notreceptive.
There's so many facets of thatI feel like you could dive into.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And I think most people that are listening right
now can relate to thatexperience, because often it's
like people either escalatequickly because they feel like
they're not getting heard, andit's hard to.
When you feel like you're notbeing heard, it's hard not to
just want to raise your voiceright and shut down what the
other person is saying becauseit's not in alignment with your
(04:51):
experience.
So, unless you acquire skills,you're just going to keep
repeating a pattern of behaviorthat's not actually working for
anybody.
So, first of all, when you'reangry, you can't even begin to
have a conversation.
So don't even bother.
That's the first thing, andcommunication, like you said, is
(05:12):
key.
So it's the most importantthing.
You've got to find a way tocommunicate in a way where you
can hear each other, and thatmeans you've got to talk at a
normal volume level, a healthy,normal tone, not a condescending
or a tone with contempt.
So you're talking about whereright, it's subtle nuances.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, I was going to say what do you mean?
Because I so I'm married and wehave he had three boys coming
into this.
Wow, I have a girl, I have agirl, and then we wound up
having a boy.
So it's a whirlwind, blendingfamilies, and we're five years
in and I'm just like it's a lot.
It's a lot of learning,communicating, all the things.
(05:56):
But one thing I've really beenstriving to work towards is
being able to communicate withhim in a way that doesn't make
him feel like I'm condescending.
In a way that doesn't make himfeel like I'm condescending, or
because I made it my mission tomaster emotional intelligence,
to overcome trauma, to be ableto communicate in a way that
doesn't make people feel little.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So what do you mean by contempt?
I think if you go into it beingcurious and empathetic and not
wanting to win the argumentbecause when we want to win
we're like we're scrappy, we'regoing to fight, we're going in
guns blazing Instead, if therecan be a reframe where you're
like curious, babe, what, whathappened there?
I care, I love you, what justhappened?
(06:40):
And if you can't be curious andempathetic in that moment which
most of us can if we're angryand we've been triggered and
we're just quickly stirred up,we need to go.
You know what?
Something just happened.
Let's step away from this for afew minutes and come back.
It's important to me, it'simportant to us in the
relationship.
Let's circle back, let's takean hour and if you're not ready
(07:09):
at that point, you take anotherhour and you keep rechecking in.
So what's contempt?
Eye rolling like that?
It's an attitude that is toxic.
It's not in the interest ofhealing, repairing.
It doesn't convey care.
Care doesn't convey love.
So you got to get into thathead space of like we're two
humans doing the best that wecan.
(07:31):
We come from differentbackgrounds, we have different
experiences of trauma.
So that's where you've got toreally pull on the empathy part
of ourselves.
It's there, you just have tolike, you have to consciously
tap into it.
It's not going to happen on itsown, because we're wired for
survival.
We're going to mesh it, we'regoing to make, we're going to
(07:51):
make it clear where he wentwrong.
You know what I mean.
This is where you need to dobetter.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's not the solution, for sure it's just
when you were talking aboutgetting scrappy like, the
trailer park in me came out andjust imagine throwing hands like
Jerry Springer style.
There's a documentary out onthat.
I just started watching it lastnight, by the way.
Did you ever watch?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Jerry Springer.
Oh well, I've seen it.
I'm not going to lie, I've seenit.
It's hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's real hard to watch, I bet, especially if
someone is trying to bringpeople together.
But that shit was scrappy.
Speaking of scrappy, sodysfunctional, that's what my
mind just put together.
We do when you do have thesetriggers and there's unresolved.
For instance, my husband and Iare so different.
(08:40):
Our traumas are different.
We both have mom issues right,I've got mom and dad issues.
Who doesn't?
I'm hella yeah, I'm hellafucked up, but I think everybody
is.
And yes, but like, whenever itcomes to communicating, it's
like it can be such a challengebecause he's so calm and
collected and just a face ofstone and like, and I'm just,
(09:03):
I'm over here.
This is how I feel, detail bydetail.
This is what I need, this iswhat I expect, and sometimes I
think he's sitting back anddigesting.
He's not an emotional person.
He does not show emotion.
It's very hard to get that manto cry.
The only thing that did it.
Babe, I love you.
We're listening.
He didn't cry when our son wasborn, but but that man has.
(09:29):
I know he's added in himbecause a star is born.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
That's a good one.
So funny.
What a hoax emotion in us.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right, but it just it showed me that I did.
I don't quite understand him,but what he is willing to, I
don't know.
Maybe he felt safe in thatenvironment, not in front of all
these doctors, and anyway.
So I guess what I'm getting atis when you have two people who
are one is super.
I'm heavily involved inpersonal development.
I just got super into fitness.
(09:56):
I've lost 50 pounds.
I am ready to take on thefucking world.
I'm in my dirty 30s.
I'm finally at that point in mylife where I'm comfortable in
my own skin.
I feel sexy and part of that islike very intellectual for me.
I don't ever want to quitlearning, but I guess what I'm
asking is because if I gothrough this, I know other women
(10:17):
are going through it, but mentoo.
But you have a partner who maybeone partner is super emotional.
I'm called highly, a highlysensitive person and I have
mental illness battles withinmyself, right and so, and then
the trauma, yada, yada, yada.
But I am highly sensitive andhighly receptive to energy and
you can tell me you're okay, butI can feel you're not okay the
(10:40):
way your, your mannerisms, theway you just worry that shit in
the dishwasher.
So how do you?
What is your advice to thepeople out there that, like they
feel so different?
One is like I'm here, I'mlistening, and then the other
one's like you feel like maybethey're not listening.
You're sitting there and you'relike I know you're here
physically, but why haven'tthese things, things that are
(11:01):
important to me, why don't theyseem important to you?
Are you really listening?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Oh my gosh, so many thoughts, so so many.
Let me, let me.
Let me grab them all as they'repopping up.
I threw a lot at you, I'm sorry.
The first thing most of us arereally different from our
partners because the oppositesattract, and that's true.
I know it sounds cliche, butwe're attracted to what's
(11:30):
different, right Differencesfrom us, somebody who's
different in style.
There's a yin and yang and abalance and you want to be
careful not to make assumptions.
So just because he's quietdoesn't mean that he doesn't
care, doesn't mean that he's notfeeling a lot of emotion.
Men are wired like.
Let's be real, men are wireddifferently than women.
It can take them longer toprocess and understand what's
happening and formulate aresponse.
So it's really important togive them space to be able to
(11:51):
just be who they are and notassume that they're not feeling,
they don't care, they're notthinking.
They're there with you, theyare present and it may look like
it, but assume good, this iswhere we go down the wrong, like
the rabbit hole, right, we needto assume that they're there
because they care and becausethey love us.
They're just different, fullstop and give them space and you
(12:16):
can say no, I'm expressive.
I know I'm a lot, and let'scome back.
I wanna hear your thoughts.
I wanna give you time and spaceto process.
Can we come back?
I want to hear your thoughts, Iwant to give you time and space
to process.
Can we come back to this?
So it's about allowing, allowinghim to be different than you
and allowing him the space andtime to get to a place where he
can answer and give you, giveyou, a response that's honest
(12:38):
and authentic, because otherwiseyou don't want that.
You don't want him to justreact and to give you something
that's actually not even right.
It doesn't.
It's just a reaction, it's notan action.
We want to be acting inrelationship, not reacting, and
the only way to get to a pointwhere you can act on something
(12:59):
thoughtfully you have to havetime to think, and when you're I
, jacqueline, I know because Ican relate to you I'm fiery and
I'm quick.
My words come quick.
I know exactly what I'm feelingand I can, I can tell you right
now what you're feeling.
Just imagine if you have adoctorate in political
psychology and all these yearsof experience.
You really think the otherperson's feeling and thinking
(13:20):
All bad, right, I got to justchill out, share a little bit as
calmly as I can.
If not, again abort mission andcome back later and speak about
my experience.
I can't tell you.
This is how you're acting andthis is how you're feeling.
I used to.
It was fire, fire, fire.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And he, because he's so calm and collected, has
pulled me back.
He knows, jacqueline, you needto take 24 to 48 hours to think
on that, and I've gotten betterabout that and so.
But here's one thing that werun into, Because I've gotten
good at that and like I do drop.
It's not hints, it's verydirect things that are
(14:07):
non-negotiables.
Things are important for meright as I evolve, things that
that just you change, you shiftas a human you evolve, right?
I guess one thing that, becauseI've learned from him like that
to take time to, to think aboutthings, I almost wonder, wonder
if and women out there listening, please write me if you do this
(14:28):
too, but it's not like it.
I feel like it may feel to himlike some things come out of
nowhere, but the reality isthat's where it goes to, the.
Do our partners and women dothis shit too?
Are they listening?
Because it's just like.
Sometimes it feels like itcomes out of.
I feel like he probably feelslike it comes out of nowhere the
(14:50):
important conversations, andI'm like well, when does it come
?
I try to almost build up to theconversations, but what is your
, what's your stance on that?
When you do start to learn fromyour partner to take time, let
them be themselves, like becausewe had a really intense
conversation about two days ago,um, and that's part of the
blended family thing.
Like my daughter, it's reallyreally hard for them to connect
(15:13):
and that is something that, as aparent, is very hard to accept.
So it's not a situation thatI'm throwing on him.
We've been together five yearsnow, right, but it sometimes
feels like because I've learnedfrom him to take space and
really think it through before Ihave a big conversation.
It comes out left field.
Is there any way around that,or do you just continue to do
(15:36):
the best you can and hope thatthey feel that it is coming from
love, that you have taken thetime to think about it, because
it can be a lot.
It feels like you're throwing alot at them, but it's like.
These are the things I'mfeeling.
I just want you to know so thatwhen you're ready to respond,
you can respond.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's an ongoing dialogue.
I think, like when you have ablended family, there's so much
complexity.
The kids are different ages,different personality styles,
right Different dispositions,and then there's the two of you
trying to show up for eachother's kids.
This is complex and thenthere's exes.
We don't even want to get intothat right.
(16:17):
So all these dynamics, so youneed to make a commitment to
yourself and each other and therelationship to have an ongoing
conversation, and sometimes theconversations are going to be
tense and but other times thatthey're just going to be kind of
curious and easy and if you'reboth in a really good headspace,
there's going to be more room.
(16:38):
If you both feeling like it'sdate night and say there's
something you're both feelingreally good and connected.
You just had great sex thenight before.
Now you've got date night,you're sitting there eating good
food together and you know whatI'm talking about where you
feel really connected and it'srelaxed, that's a good time to
bring up something nothing toocrazy, but to talk about it when
(17:00):
both people are like disarmedand if it's an ongoing
conversation that you'rerevisiting, not from a place of
wanting to fight, from a placeof wanting to feel seen and
heard and to continue to makeprogress.
It's like you want theintention to be, not to change
his behavior.
That's the other thing that'sreally important, very, very,
(17:20):
very important.
It's about just expressing yourexperience and feeling heard.
It's not about getting him tochange what he does and how he
does what he does Beautifullysaid, beautifully said.
Allow him to be who he is.
The change happens within us,has to happen within you, and
(17:41):
when you make a change withinyourself, it changes the whole
system.
You have a family system goingon there.
Everybody has a role in thatsystem.
If you were to sit down and mapit out, you could label
everybody's role in that familysystem your daughter, his kid.
You know what I mean.
All of the.
So once you tweak your behavior, just slightly, turn the dial,
(18:05):
it's going to impact everybodyand you'll see shifts happening.
So focus on changing yourselfto see a different right, a
difference.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
For sure that is so it's.
This isn't me, but I'm alreadydoing that, but I am doing that.
If knew my story, oh my god.
2024 was wild and I've seen Idid notice.
I started working out andstarted losing weight.
In the beginning we would go onwalks together and then that
kind of stopped and then Inoticed I was depending on him
(18:38):
and then one day I was just likeyou know what I'm over this
shit and I started going and Ijust made that commitment to
myself.
But what was funny was it wentfrom and I think this is what
you're saying is whenever I tookthe pressure off of him to
let's do this together and Ijust started going to the gym
and he saw how consistent I wasand he could see my body
transforming.
You know like we're having sexand he's like whoa, is this my
(19:01):
wife?
You know like we're having sexand he's like whoa is this my
wife?
Your body looks different.
It was so funny.
He started going on walks andhe works out in the garage and
stuff like that, and so is thatwhat you mean?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That's a perfect example.
Yes, because he's watching youprioritize yourself.
He's seeing that there areactual physical changes for you.
You're also how you're showingup is going to change a little
bit.
You're going to feel more like.
You're going to feel yourself.
You know what I mean.
You feel more confident, youfeel sexier, you're more
interested in connecting.
(19:34):
You know how it is sexuallyLike you, you liking your body
more, so you may be morecomfortable sexually with him,
right?
So he's like, wow, she got itgoing on.
I want some of that.
That would be good for me, thatwould be good for our
relationship.
So you're not even asking him.
Hey, babe, come on, you're solazy.
(19:55):
See, that's another thing.
You've got to be very carefulnot to criticize, right?
That's it.
That's toxic.
You're so lazy.
Here I am doing this, I'mworking out, I'm doing all these
things to take care of myself.
You're selfishly sleeping in.
That all has to be.
So it's.
You demonstrate, you model yourhope Like there's a hope.
(20:16):
There can be a hope there thathe joins.
But let him get to that.
Allow him to be himself.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
A hundred million Cause I don't know what numbers
come after that.
Agree with that, but because itis, and so it's, he's taught me
so, so much and he's definitelycalmed me down and made me a
better person for sure.
So all this is hitting home.
You said something about theinsults.
(20:43):
That's one thing I used to do.
I was so insecure, but I had nogood relationships to build off
of no good examples whatsoever.
And I remember, with mydaughter's dad especially, being
so insecure and he passed awayin 2020.
So that's a whole thing on itsown, but I so there's like a
(21:06):
survivor's guilt and like I wasbitch so many times.
But there's like I remembertimes where I would be upset,
like hurt me or something, andso what would I do?
I would emasculate the fuck outof him.
And looking back now I'm like Idon't condone violence, but as a
bitch, I could see myselfslapping myself with the way I
(21:29):
acted and I like there weretimes where I was.
I like acted when I was drunk,like the beginning of a
relationship, and I remember himtelling me like never do it
again.
I'm gone and but I see in myline of work like um, because at
the end of the day, you'restill a life coach.
Whatever coach you are, peoplecome to you with their problems,
right.
But I see this a lot womencomplaining about their partners
(21:52):
and like if they were talkingabout me that way behind my back
, I don't, that would fuckinghurt.
It would hurt like so theemasculating, I can't believe I
was that way.
First off, it's really sad.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Be loving towards yourself and have compassion.
Right Like this is where theskills come in.
Like you didn't have rolemodels teaching you how to fight
fairly.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And he didn't either.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's the thing.
So it's like you didn't knowany better and now you're
learning and it's your intentionto continue to do better.
So that's all we can do is tocontinue to work on evolving and
be better and be kinder, likewe need more cut.
Today more than ever, I feellike in my career I'm like to
channel as much as possible togive and chat like like all that
(22:42):
energy of kindness and love,acceptance for to understand
difference, right.
So the thing is you cancomplain totally acceptable to
complain and be like babe, I'mso frustrated, there's dishes in
the sink again.
Can you just like more mindfulof the fact that I don't want to
come home and see dishes?
(23:02):
I would just and just have it.
Be like it doesn't have to bean argument, it can be just a
complaint and that's it.
Where it becomes problematic iswhen you start to criticize and
it's like you start to characterassault.
You see, you're just like yourfather.
Your mom talks about how lazyhe is and how sloppy and messy
(23:23):
he is, and I can see it in you.
That's all bad Like.
These are things.
These behaviors eventuallybuild and lead to divorce, like
John Gottman, I don't know.
I'm sure folks who listen arelistening.
Some are familiar.
30, 40 years of research onrelationships, what works and
what doesn't work, and contemptand criticism does not work.
(23:47):
Defensiveness, right.
When you express yourself andyour partner turns around and
says, yeah, you did yesterdayand you, okay, you do that too,
and here are the ways that youdo that, what does that do?
It invalidates what you'resaying.
It means that, like, basically,it sends a message that there's
no right, like getting anywherehere.
(24:09):
We're not making progress.
You're not feeling heard orunderstood.
Now it's just a fight.
Now you're in the ring.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, passive aggressiveness come into all of
this, because that's somethingthat I'm for sure guilty of it.
I know I am, but when andthat's another reason I want to
understand it like we do that,um, I'm learning to like ask for
help and step back and be likewait, that was.
It was kind of like that dayyou're being nobody around.
(24:40):
You deserve that, but how doyou so that I understand?
So I don't do it.
And then, when my partner oreven my children are super
passive-aggressive or like momor just people like we do it
right, don't know how to channelthose emotions and ask for help
, where does all this come intoplay?
And like, do you navigate that?
(25:00):
Do you?
You continue to like they saythey're okay and it's very
obvious they're not.
Do you offer help again?
Do you ask a different way?
Do you embrace them and like,can we calm down?
Give them a hug, like you do?
Do you give them space?
I don't know what the fuck todo.
I don't even know what to dowith my person.
What do I do with this personwho's like I'm okay, but it's
(25:21):
like they're not okay?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That's a good question.
Oh my gosh, you ask really goodquestions.
It's so fun.
Okay, all of us probably cansee at different points in time
how we've behaved in this way.
It's if you're not reallyactively observing and working
hard to not be passive,aggressive and really to be
assertive, honest and authenticwith how you're feeling, it's
going to come out unconsciously,inadvertently, in
(25:46):
passive-aggressive ways.
Number one, right?
So this is why I saycommunicate, communicate,
communicate as much as possible,but obviously not
over-communicate.
You don't want to kill yourrelationship by, like, overly
processing.
That's a whole other thing,we'll get into that later.
So when somebody is beingpassive, aggressive, it's
they're hurting.
When we're being passive,aggressive, we're hurting and
(26:09):
we're not accessing our tools,we're not showing up at our
highest selves to be mature,adult in the relationship and
really share what likevulnerability in us.
What's hurting us about what'shappening the behavior.
Vulnerability in us, what'shurting us about what's
happening, the behavior.
It is not our job to getsomebody else to talk.
(26:29):
You know what I mean to behavedifferently.
So here's the allowing again,you allow them to do what
they're doing and youacknowledge that.
Oh, that seems passive,aggressive, that's hurting me.
I can have boundaries so youcan remove yourself, you can
right, you have options and youcan decide.
You know what I'm opting out.
I'm not going to engage in thepassive aggressivity.
(26:50):
I'm not going to reinforce itat all, I'm going to steer clear
.
So really, it's about youhaving healthy boundaries and
not participating in it, causethen you're in, then you're
right.
You're like reinforcing thatbehavior, cause now you're just,
then you're right.
You're like reinforcing thatbehavior, cause now you're just
responding to it.
It's like a kid who's having atemper tantrum.
Do we then play into that or dowe just go?
(27:15):
I'm right, mommy's right, righthere, I love you and I'm going
to be right over here when youare done kicking and screaming
on the cement.
Right over here.
When you are done kicking andscreaming on the cement, I'm
right here.
You know where to find me Right.
And then they're like oh shit,it's not working.
Oh my God, now I'm embarrassed.
I've made a whole scene infront of all these people.
They get up and they like.
(27:35):
So I just could see my sondoing this, because this
happened a few times and it onlyhappened a few times because it
didn't work.
So that's the thing.
If you don't participate in it,it actually will resolve itself
, because most of us have theability of self-reflection and
shame.
We don't want to keep actinglike that.
(27:55):
Don't feel good.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So you say I've got good questions.
A couple more questions.
I don't even know what time itis.
Give them to me, quite okay.
So with the whole past, you saythat it should dissipate if we
don't give attention to itprofessionally, because I'm I'm
big on like my clients come tome uh, it's, you know, it's
money.
They want to make more money,they want to live life you're
(28:21):
happy, and and often that alsoincludes like trinity and
allowing themselves to receivelike that partner or um,
sometimes it's letting go ofthat partner, right, um, to make
room for like for them, um, andso with I live in the south I
don't know if you figured thatout with my accent but it's very
(28:43):
cute, by the way.
You're so beautiful, by the way.
I meant, like such a gorgeouswoman, you've got this.
I don't know, I mean, I haven'tgot to put my finger on it, but
you've got this.
Um, it's really, she's like aclassic.
I'll I'll think of it later but, uh, but this very classic look
that I can't put my finger on,love it.
(29:05):
Thank you, oh my God, what wasI saying though?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, professional, they want to meet their person.
They have to change theiridentity.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Like your clients, so , like I say, at what point do
you just like the wholepassive-aggressive thing?
What I think of is I'm taught,I was taught, I've been taught
from a very young age, beinglike I was in church,
pentecostal, all the things,speaking on tongues, wow, okay,
(29:36):
yeah, I what I was taught andI'm not saying I'm not that I
opted out of that whole thing,um, but we were taught and it's
still very prominent in theSouth, in the Bible belt, like
ever.
You just put up with it,especially as a woman, like by
your man and you.
You see them through everything.
So like, thank God, I love, Ilove you and I miss you, grandma
(29:59):
, but I just what's coming tomind is like my grandmother.
She died in her early 60s andshe was like, oh, ready to go?
Send me to jesus, I'm ready.
And it broke my fucking heartbecause she was like mine, the
perfect woman.
She took care of my papa.
She was like t-bone steaksevery other night, hand and foot
(30:19):
waiting on him, and she put upwith shit she put up with so
much shit cheating?
I've heard some insane storiesfrom my mother.
What point is like okay, notpaying attention to this tantrum
?
Is that enough like you justcontinue to compromise and be
like, okay, I'm not going toparticipate in that fit and
(30:41):
embrace all the other goodthings?
Or is that something that youthink is a non-negotiable, that
nobody should ever have to justput up with that kind of
behavior forever?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, it's so case by case.
It's tough to sit down and havemeetings with ourselves and get
really quiet and honest andreal, have alone time and get to
the beach, go to the mountainsand just sit and reflect Like is
there still good in thisrelationship?
(31:14):
Why am I here?
What do I get from thisrelationship?
Am I feeling joy?
Do I feel overall happy?
You've got to be like in thereal content and kind of joy and
happiness in your relationship.
If the if it's flipped theother way, then you should be
asking yourself is this where Iwant to be?
And if it's not where I want tobe, is there a way to make it
(31:37):
better?
Is there a room?
Have I tried everything?
Because I do think we make acommitment to like, enter into a
relationship.
What I'm seeing now is peopleare bouncing prematurely.
When it gets hard, they're outand that's just they're going to
.
That's going to repeat, that isgoing to play itself out again
and again, no matter who they'rewith, because it's going to get
(31:59):
hard.
Relationships are hard, so it'syou got to do everything you
can to try to improve therelationship.
So seek out, you know, servicesfrom a coach a relationship
coach, expert, therapist,psychologist, a coach, a
(32:20):
relationship coach, expert,therapist, psychologist Get help
, get support, because most ofus don't have the role models.
We didn't have them, we don'tknow, we don't have those tools
and skills and there's a lot ofthings now that therapists can
give you to really makesignificant changes in the
relationship.
And when the communication iscoming from a professional, your
partner is going to hear itdifferently.
(32:41):
They're not going to bedefensive, they're going to be
more open, more receptive,likely.
So I think it's a complicatedanswer and I think if you know
that you've exhausted everypossibility in improving the
relationship and more often thannot you're pretty unhappy,
maybe even miserable, then maybeit's time to call it quits.
(33:04):
But remember, one thing I wantto do, I want to say, is that
the human condition is mostlysuffering.
That's what we've all we'rebeing lied to.
The messaging that we'resurrounded with is you should be
happy, you shouldn't feel sadmore often than not, because, if
(33:25):
you are, you should takemedication because you're a
depressed person, when thereality is that we tend towards
suffering.
We do it towards.
This is just our nature, humannature.
So let's be realistic also whenwe're thinking about like our
level of happiness and right, soevery day shouldn't be what
(33:46):
we're going like.
Of course it'd be beautiful ifwe could be joyful and happy
every single day.
It's just not realistic,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Is it okay to people in your line of work?
Have you do people just growapart?
Is that a thing or is it anexcuse?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I think that if both people really want to be in
something, they can likely staytogether.
They can create the gluebetween each other to not grow
apart.
It's when people stop doing thework and not communicating as
much they're going outside oftheir relationship to get most
of their needs met.
They're inevitably going tostart to veer away from one
(34:29):
another.
It has to be an active efforton both sides to maintain the
relationship.
So no, I don't believe youreally grow apart.
You can, but in general mostpeople it's about them not doing
the work Makes complete sense.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay, I want you to tell me a little bit about your
book in a minute.
But for for everybody listeningwho like, okay, I'll be a
better partner, maybe I shouldtake a different approach,
different angle at this.
How I bring things up.
Do you have any tips on how tolike conversations or like?
What I'm looking more for islike not a script, but like what
(35:08):
you could say, so they don'tfeel like you're attacking them,
like the whole thing I'velearned um is, when I
communicate, I don't tell him.
You make me feel.
I say so.
What happened about fiveminutes ago?
Like they were doing this andthis man, like I, felt triggered
and I think it's.
I don't know where it's comingfrom, but like situation made me
feel this way or that's how II'm taking it.
(35:31):
So just hearing someone like aprofessional say don't ever
because they feel attacked,right Like and I can't tell them
how they're feeling and hecan't tell me how I'm feeling.
Nobody fucking knows how I'mfeeling, but I don't know how to
communicate that.
So what are some things?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
we could say.
So what you just said isextremely important Remove you
Speak from I, so use Istatements and you can look them
up.
Very simply.
I feel you want to start withan emotion.
I feel really sad or I feelreally frustrated or angry,
(36:08):
because yesterday, when we wereoutside the school remember when
this, like standing that yousee there's no you, it's like yo
and I really in that situation,once you you create some
context, you say you know, Iwould have really preferred it
if it could have been handledthis way instead.
(36:28):
You see what I mean?
I feel frustrated when thissituation happened and I would
have.
I would really appreciate it ifit could be handled this way
instead.
And you can search, look online, like I statements.
There will be a ton of examples.
So that's there's that.
The other thing is, you want toreally be careful of using
(36:50):
absolutes.
You always do this.
You never show me affection,for example.
You always lose your shit.
You always lose your temper.
You, you never show up.
You know you never come.
You always never right that.
Those are absolutes.
(37:10):
Remove those as well, becauseit's too black and white.
Remove those as well, becauseit's too black and white it's.
It's often where it's nuancedand we're in the gray.
But our mind is very, can bevery black and white, unless we
keep right, unless we aretraining ourselves to think
about the gray more.
Be in the gray Cause it's notalways true.
(37:32):
No one is always one way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
And something I've heard recently that is just like
that makes sense.
It's like things can be true atthe same time.
His truth is his truth, mytruth is my truth, same with my
mom.
Like we've navigated the pastfew years and she came out and
she told me she said, man, thethings that you tell me, because
she struggled with drugaddiction and she wasn't around
(37:56):
all the time, so there's liketrauma there.
But she finally came out andtold me she was like I'm just
thinking that the shit thatyou're talking about I had no
idea about because I don'tremember any of it, and so, like
her truth is so different thanmy truth and you said something
earlier that I feel like we cantie this all together.
But before we talk about yourbook, real quick, um is, was it?
(38:18):
What was I saying?
I have like ADHD oh, I do too sowhen you get the squirrel brain
thing, oh yeah, and then it'llcome back to you when we're off
the call oh no, no, no, it wasyou said the, the, uh, the
effort to understand, orsomething or effort to
understand, or something oreffort to understand.
Maybe Be curious.
Well, the curiosity, yeah, justleading like curiosity and it
(38:43):
goes for me emotionalintelligence and being able to
separate myself and just be likelay the facts out, this is what
they, this is how they sawthings and not take it so
personal, has been real big.
But I think that's somethingthat a lot of us struggle to do,
Like we're to take politics forentrance, Like we'll could just
take themselves out of theequation and be like okay,
(39:05):
interest in just trying tounderstand the other side.
I think it's huge Right.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And not make assumptions.
We're making so manyassumptions, and that's what we
do in relationship too.
We assume we know what ourpartner is thinking and feeling
yep, okay, so quick.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
What like the fuck are you up to?
I've seen, when I was lookingat your social media, like I
mean you have been on some tv,maybe some like, and you've had
a book, um, and I don't knowyou're.
I've seen you everywhere.
But can you tell everybody like, find you what you're doing
right now, where to find yourbook?
What is your book about?
Or do you have multiple books?
That's all the one book.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So I actually don't have a book published yet.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Oh, I have been working on it.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Little gay book.
So little gay book is mymatchmaking company that is
LGBTQ, and little black book isheterosexual matchmaking.
So if you're straight, go toLittle Black Book matchmaking.
If you're queer, go tolittlegaybookcom and you can
learn all about how we do whatwe do and how we help people
(40:12):
find love and schedule a callwith us.
We're happy to hop on a callfor 15 minutes or so and chat
with you about your questionsaround that and explain how we
do what we do.
I've been published around along time, so it's been 16 years
Amazing Since I launched thecompany and I hope to have my
book done this year and it willbe about how all the things
(40:33):
we're talking about how to havea healthy, successful, long-term
relationship in a digital agethat is doing everything
possible to undermine oursuccess in relationship by
giving us all these messages andmaking things people.
It's too I bet you've heardthis how we have such easy
access to one another nowthrough Facebook.
People are rekindling love andfantasy and idealizing right.
(40:58):
They're getting back togetherwith their first love from high
school.
They're bouncing from theirfamily and right Like.
There's so much easy access nowand it makes it really hard to
maintain good boundaries becausethere's temptation all around
us.
We're human, we're going tohave temptation, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
That grass is greener on the other side and social
media presents it as likesomething better, like I
literally fall victim to that.
I posted in my stories theother day and it was it's not to
be passive.
My husband's not on socialmedia al he's like nine years
older than me.
Only reason I'm there is that'show I make a living, right, but
(41:34):
it's so accessible like these Idon't know how they are in real
life, but they're making itlook good, taking care of their
wives like food, and I'm likenot real men like this exist not
real?
that's literally my question.
Do men anytime I post anythinglike that, I'm like men like
this actually exist, or is itall for the fucking camera?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
it's entertainment, it's all for the fucking camera.
It's entertainment, it's allfor the camera.
It's annoying.
So let's not like not greeneron the other side.
So let's work in being inrelationship and seeing if we
can grow ourselves and evolveand get our relationship to a
place that really feelsfulfilling.
So what else?
Just find me, I'm all.
Just Dr Frankie, you can findme.
I was on Howard Stern a fewweeks ago, amazing.
(42:18):
I'll be on again soon.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Shut the front door.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, no spoiler.
I can't tell you what, but yougot to go check it out.
On Sirius Radio and I was theexpert on Are you the One?
Mtv's Are you the One?
First sexually fluid cast.
I was the doctor on the showand season eight, which was
amazing and so fun.
(42:42):
Yeah, I've done lots.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I'm so.
I like how big you were.
That's like I feel so honoredright now to even have you here.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Whoever your publicist is, thank you, thank
you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I'll let her know.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, I'm a writer too.
She's wonderful, she, thank you.
Thank you, I'll let her know.
Yeah, I write her too.
She's wonderful, she's sowonderful.
But what was I going to say?
I feel like a douche because Iread Little Gay Book and I was
like she's got books out.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
That's what people assume, and I feel I'm always
like, oh my gosh, because peoplewill say where's your book?
How can I find it?
I'm like, ah, I don't have abook I have.
I have like notebooks full ofmy book that I just need to pull
together.
So 2025, that's my goal, butI've.
I'm such a visionary, there'sso many other things I've been
doing and I get pulled in allthese different directions that
(43:29):
I'm like yes to MTV, yes to that.
And I'm one person.
I only have so many hours in aday.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So yeah, keep doing you, you are incredible.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
This has been so good so so so, so, so good.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Is there anything else that you would like to say?
I have like a and I just saypart with what's on your heart.
If you had any last words ofwisdom and then I'll let you go,
because I know you're a busywoman on Howard Stern and shit.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
The last thing I want to say is that just remember
that we're all human and we'reimperfect, and as long as our
intention daily is to be kind toourselves and be kind to others
, that's what.
That's what it takes to allelevate, to drive all of us to
rise, is to just spread kindnessand be kind to yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
This is the Southern girl on me, but amen, amen to
that.
Thank you so much.
Seriously, it just changed mylife with all that information.
That's it y'all, dr FrankieBichon.
It's been an honor.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Thank you again, and I hope you have a beautiful day
on purpose, you too.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Bye.
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