October 30, 2025 • 56 mins
Holy MFA, Batman! This week, the guys discuss the sentencing of the individual behind the PowerSchool data breach, the recent AI weapons detection system that mistook a bag of chips for a gun and prompted police response, and Mark's Batman mask. Yes, it's Halloween time!
The main segment is an interview with the tech team from Tahoe-Truckee Unified School District. They share their lessons learned from a highly ambitious project: rolling out multi-factor authentication (MFA) to every student. Learn how they tackled user experience and training to ensure stronger identity security for their entire K12 population.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) On this week's episode of the K-12
Tech Talk podcast, we discuss the power school
hacker's sentencing, debrief an AI weapons detection system
gone wrong, and interview a school district who
just rolled out MFA to all students about
their experience.
Thanks for listening.
Live from the NTP studios, this is the
(00:23):
K-12 Tech Talk podcast.
This is episode 238.
Did you guys like my inflection there?
It was crazy.
I know.
I am Josh, K-12 Tech Director here
in mid-Missouri.
With me is Chris.
Me too.
From an undisclosed location in mid-Missouri.
I think he's wearing his Ted Lasso costume
for Halloween.
Oh, that does look like a Ted Lasso.
(00:44):
I agree.
Yeah.
Did you ever watch Ted Lasso after Mark
and I called you Ted Lasso?
Yeah, but it's on Apple, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like I did several episodes, however many
I could fit in with a trial.
Oh, yeah.
And thoughts?
Did you enjoy it?
Oh, yeah.
Super great.
Yeah.
Did you see yourself as Ted Lasso?
We actually have a principal here at one
(01:04):
of our elementaries that I'm pretty sure it's
the Ted Lasso vision, like the motto.
I believe.
Yeah.
It's up at the school.
It's like a staff thing like this year.
Hmm.
I wonder if he paid trademark rights for
that.
So it is Happy Halloween.
Mark has got his camera.
There we go.
Oh, wow.
We knew he would come with a costume.
(01:25):
Mark is Batman.
I am Batman.
I'm Batman.
Tell me, do you bleed?
You will.
That was Batman talking to Superman.
That was Chris' Batman.
Ever dance with the devil in the pale
moonlight?
That's Michael Keaton.
(01:48):
Mark, give me your Batman.
I want to hear it.
You guys said it was the Halloween episode
and I had two seconds to find the
nearest thing.
So I haven't prepared anything.
I just got a Batman mask.
Say, I'm Batman.
I'm Batman.
There we go.
So the only weird thing about that is
the Batman mask was within arm's reach of
you, because five seconds ago you weren't dressed.
(02:11):
How often are you using the Batman costume,
Mark?
Oh, you know.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I have a Batman mask.
And you have headphones on.
Yeah.
I have a Batman mask within arm's length.
What are you going to do about it?
Nothing.
I mean, to each their own.
It's fine.
You reminded me it was the Halloween episode
(02:32):
and so I had to quickly reach for
the nearest thing that had been recently used.
Here's the next question.
When was the last time you wore that?
Apparently recent, because it was really close.
No, no.
I haven't worn this in a long time.
I just have it permanently near me.
Permanently near you?
Don't lie.
(02:53):
We've known you long enough to know when
you're lying.
Do you see me wiping the dust off
of the mask right now?
Yep.
That's something Bruce Wayne would say.
That's not.
Okay.
Yeah.
We should move on before.
So another week, another cloud hosting outage.
(03:13):
Office 365.
I'm sorry, Mark.
Am I stealing your news?
No, no, no.
I forgot about that one.
Yeah.
Office 365.
Microsoft is doing their damnedest to do everything
they can to be just like Amazon.
So they had an outage this week.
Half the web that went down last week,
didn't go down last week, went down this
week.
Did that impact you guys at all?
(03:34):
We really didn't see much of an impact,
I don't think.
We had two applications.
A hall pass solution and then a thing
that we used for some fishing campaign stuff.
So minimal impact.
Yeah.
I know some of the folks I worked
with had talked about Raptor was the bigger
impact that some districts had saw.
Yep.
(03:55):
We got complaints that Raptor was down and
we just figured it was another day.
Josh, did you announce that to your staff?
No, we didn't.
Where was I when that happened?
I wasn't in my office.
God, where was I?
I don't know what I was doing.
For right or for wrong, these outages, I've
tried to just hold the line and not
talk about it.
(04:17):
The AWS one was way more impactful to
us.
So yes, I did send out a message
to that, not the Microsoft Entra Azure outage.
Chris, do you want to hit a sponsor?
I sure do.
If you go to k12techpro.com, there is
a Lightspeed Signal demo article on there.
(04:38):
I did a review of their Signal products.
So check out Lightspeed Systems Signal.
They can help you with your device health.
You can see what outages are happening, just
like what we talked about.
You would be notified, hey, these Chromebooks can't
get to XYZ, whatever that thing is.
It might give you some quicker heads up
than even k12techpro gives because you're going to
(04:58):
see your students and your staff devices report
in that they can't get to particular things
and more.
So check out Signal product with Lightspeed, but
check out Lightspeed for sure and that review.
So Mark, you hinted that you had some
fun news stories.
I mean, I wouldn't say fun.
I would just say very intriguing stories.
(05:20):
I guess the theme of tonight would be
that didn't take too long.
So let's start with AI weapons detection systems.
We've talked about this in the past.
There are a number of different solutions on
the market.
One of the genres of AI weapons detection
systems actually looks at your security cameras and
detects if there is any sort of threat
(05:41):
or weapon in the image feed.
Well, one school in Baltimore County called the
police after their AI weapons detection system flagged
a student or an individual with a gun
outside of their school.
This was after hours, though.
The police responded in force with eight squad
cars.
They detained a group of teenagers and looked
(06:03):
around and found the supposed weapon was actually
a bag of Doritos.
So not very fun and obviously very traumatizing
for the teenagers who are just hanging out
eating bags of chips.
Yeah.
He's just eating his Stranger Pizza Cool Ranch
(06:23):
Doritos for Halloween.
He's just munching on those.
Only you would go with the specific flavor
of Doritos.
Every other news article just said, it's a
bag of Doritos.
And Chris knew from the shade of blue
what flavor it was.
Yeah.
Poor kid.
Pizza flavor.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, anyways, that school district had to release
(06:44):
statements and the family of the students detained
were obviously very traumatized.
I did watch the video footage of the
cops as they responded.
They have the body camera footage.
The police responded very quickly by releasing the
footage.
And it's really unfortunate.
You see a group of teenagers just hanging
out and then being thrown into handcuffs.
And then when the police actually looked at
(07:05):
the image from the AI system, and don't
get me wrong, I don't think they had
the image before they responded.
I think they were responding to a report
of a young person with a gun.
And then they got the image when they
were there.
And they're like, that's very clearly a Ziploc
bag or a chip bag.
So I don't know if there was a
(07:26):
human that reviewed that footage before calling it
police.
I don't know if the system automatically called
the police.
But either way, once they saw the image,
the police were pretty sure that they were
looking for a bag.
It's funny because the conference I was at
last week, if there I bet there were
three or four vendors in the exhibit hall
(07:48):
that all were demoing some sort of weapons
detection.
And it's funny because, you know, you're walking
down the aisle and they're like, here, hold
this AK-47 toy and you hold it
and all these alarms go off.
It's like, well, that's great.
As long as the person walking up to
your building is holding a gun out in
the open, you know, like, look at me
look at like it does nothing for concealed
(08:10):
weapons, or bags of potato chips, apparently.
Yeah, not those aren't potato chips.
Okay, deadly potato chips.
All right, the next article going along the
theme of that didn't take so long.
I like this theme.
Yeah, it's a fun one.
The young man who was arrested for breaking
(08:32):
into power school and hacking into power school
and stealing the data was sentenced.
Did you guys want to guess what the
sentence was?
Oh, I didn't hear this at all.
Tens of millions of student and teacher records.
Was he a minor?
No, he wasn't a minor.
He was like 22 or something, wasn't he?
He's 20 years old.
And going with the theme of that didn't
(08:52):
take long.
I'm gonna say seven years.
I was gonna go five.
Wow, you guys are pretty good.
Now, Josh, the prosecutors were pushing for seven.
Defense was looking for three years.
He was sentenced to four years in prison
with three years of probation.
He did also receive a $25,000 fine
(09:14):
and was ordered to pay $14.5 million
in restitution.
Oh, come on.
A 20-year-old who is now a
felon is not going to make $14.5
million.
That all made sense to me until then.
Yeah, they're basically just gonna garnish his wages.
Which I guess I can get there on
that dollar amount.
On the dollar amount, sure.
(09:35):
I'm sure Power School's insurance company has paid
out.
Yeah, I mean, that's the impact of dollar
amount.
It's not necessarily what he's gonna be able
to pay.
So I'm sure there's lawyers that listen, but
if he declares bankruptcy, what happens to that
(09:57):
judgment?
Does it stay in a place?
Because I know if a business declares bankruptcy,
the judgment kind of becomes null and void.
Because even if they garnish his wages for
the rest of his life, like you said,
Mark, if he gets a job making minimum
wage because he is a felon now, what
are they gonna garnish?
$20 a week?
So quick question then, Josh.
(10:17):
Would you have given him more time if
Josh were judged without a whole lot of
thinking right now?
No, I think the discussion is around a
more meaningful financial...
If you want to go the financial punishment
route, a more meaningful financial...
$14 million is a big number.
It gets headlines.
All it does is bury that person for
(10:40):
the rest of their life in debt.
And it's really unreasonable to expect him to
ever work out or repay that debt.
I don't know.
Well, and on top of that, that money
is not gonna go to any school districts
or families or victims.
It's gonna...
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting line in here though is he did
return about $160,000 in cryptocurrency to the
(11:04):
government that he had taken as a ransom.
However, there is about $3 million in cryptocurrency
that is unaccounted for.
So one of the arguments for a longer
sentence or for a harsher sentence was other
criminals who are watching this are gonna see,
(11:24):
well, if the price is I serve three
or four years in prison and then come
out to millions of dollars in cryptocurrency that
I've been hiding, why not continue and to
do this even longer?
Yeah.
We want this young man to be a
white hat hacker, okay?
We want redemption road for this kid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now prosecutors did reference at least eight other
(11:47):
cyber attacks that he had committed in the
last few years, including some that he had
done in high school.
So chances are there are some high school
teachers and administrators who are aware of this
student and were saying, probably saying, I told
you so kind of thing.
And we all have students like that in
our districts that we've been concerned about.
It's interesting that they were able to reference
items that took place likely when he was
(12:09):
a minor.
I find that interesting.
Yeah.
He wasn't necessarily charged for those.
I think they were referencing them as in
terms of this is one of a series
of attacks.
This is not.
Even though this was his first arrest, this
was a series of incidents that he has
committed.
Yeah.
I would like to know if he grew
up in a a one-to-one school
(12:31):
district with a tech director similar to Josh
that always blocked stuff.
And if that was part of why he
had to go down this path of destruction.
I've been on a rampage to let.
Yeah.
Look what you've made.
Can we read a random message from Josh
that we just got sometime this week?
This message brought to you by Fortinet podcast
(12:51):
at fortinet.com.
I want to read it already.
This was Tuesday at 1201 PM.
Sometimes it's really hard not to be an
asshole.
Do you recall that other context?
I do.
I do recall that.
And that's why I did that.
There's no other context that there is no
(13:13):
background.
There's no follow up.
Chris and I didn't even acknowledge it.
We just know you did that, which hurt.
We just left it.
We do that a lot to you though.
I know it hurts.
And that wasn't even about blocking.
I'll tell you the story later.
That wasn't about blocking anything.
All right.
Finally up in the news.
Now, again, this is kind of completing the
(13:33):
theme of that didn't take long.
Over the summertime, there were a lot of
headlines about a school called Alpha School down
in Texas.
They were promised to be the first AI
forward charter school where students would learn from
AI two hours a day.
There's now an article out from Wired around
(13:54):
former parents, former teachers and staff are saying,
hey, this is not at all that it
cracked out to be.
And so there's a little bit of a,
I would say a hit piece on Alpha
School.
If you read it, there is a lot
of, I would say, concerns that every district
might find in terms of parents worried about
the rigor and the level of stress and
(14:15):
concern from their child.
But there's also a lot of saying, hey,
this isn't all it cracked up to be.
And some concerns around IXL even backed out
and canceled their contract with Alpha School citing
a violation of their terms of service.
And then this issue around is Alpha School
actually going for more wealthy, well-to-do
(14:36):
families.
They particularly chose a neighborhood near the SpaceX
campus in Texas, thinking that you're going to
find more wealthy tech forward families.
And this may not be the model for
everybody.
So whether or not Alpha School is going
to be successful or not, and if this
AI forward approach is going to take a
hold, I'm not sure, but we're already starting
(14:58):
to see cracks that we kind of all
saw coming.
So we'll see.
And that just gets back to that whole
discussion of online educating applications are not the
replacement of human teachers.
I mean, the articles and such pick on
IXL, but they're just one of a number
of that if they are relied on too
(15:18):
heavily, that's not a good thing.
Well, IXL even said, in this article about
this, we are not a replacement for teachers.
You should not be using IXL in substitution
of teachers.
And I think they kind of alluded to
that being the challenge that they had with
Alpha School.
All right.
What else you got?
Anything?
That's it for the news this week.
(15:39):
Hey, I'll talk about chromebookparts.com.
So they have a YouTube channel.
We'll put a link in the podcast description
to that.
Over 300 repair tutorials concerning Chromebooks, procedures on
how to fix motherboards, that kind of stuff
to do the serial number jazz on those.
They cover all kinds of brands and models,
(15:59):
and it's just on YouTube.
So you can go out and get that.
It can help your tech department, help your
student-led tech department.
They have a lot of funny, goofy Chromebook
themed entertainment videos on there as well.
They have one that is with Jurassic Park,
but they call it Jurassic Parts, and it's
kind of a Halloween themed as well.
So check out chromebookparts.com, check out their
(16:21):
YouTube channel.
They can help you with getting the parts
that you need, but they're also offering some
free services out there just to help you
with your repairs.
So I guess the rest of this article
is going to be the interview that we
did with, was it Tahoe Truckee School District
in California on the Western coast of Lake
Tahoe.
As they were describing it, it sounded amazing.
(16:42):
They have an outdoor school, they get a
bunch of snow.
And again, being on the Western shore of
Lake Tahoe would be amazing.
The thing that struck me is he said
his district is so large that if to
go from the furthest buildings would be an
hour and a half drive time with no
traffic, no construction, no delays, whatever.
(17:05):
That's a haul for one district between buildings.
Good talk, guys.
I'm sorry, did you interview them about how
long it takes to drive across their town?
Shut up, Mark.
(17:26):
Yes.
We did.
We talked about that, Mark.
Any other takeaways?
Do you want to just move on from
here?
Mark, you are being very hurtful tonight.
Chris is dying in the corner laughing and
you're going after me here.
Yes, because your words hurt.
What else, Josh?
No, we found them over on K-12
(17:49):
Tech Pro because I had asked a question
about MFA, I think, about student MFA.
And they commented saying they were getting ready
to, this was back in early September, they
were getting ready to roll out student MFA
for their entire student body.
And during the interview, they said they went
live, I guess it was the last week
of September, for all students and their onboarding
(18:12):
and all of it went really smooth.
Little secret, they're using Clever for student MFA
and IDM.
And Mark, I believe around the same time,
you were giving a presentation about passwords and
are passwords a thing anymore?
So it kind of goes hand in hand
with that.
You want to give your take real quick
on what you talked about with your presentation?
(18:33):
Yeah, I actually had done a presentation or
a webinar for K-12 Tech, ironically, also
with the CISO for Clever.
And we were talking about the future of
authentication and challenges that school districts go with
managing passwords and security.
So it was just coincidental that you guys
were interviewing this district about their rollout of
MFA.
That is obviously one of the recommendations that
(18:55):
we give for school districts to consider student
MFA.
So I'm really eager to hear this interview.
I have not heard it yet.
So I'll be curious to see what their
experience was like.
Yeah, I'll say they eased my mind on
what student MFA is and what the impact
is on tech department.
We quickly covered all the things and all
(19:15):
the questions that we typically talk about when
we talk about student MFA.
And I got to the end and I
felt good.
And they weren't blowing smoke.
They were just giving this real life.
This is the case study.
This is what we did.
I told Josh, I still want him to
go first between the two of us.
But it makes sense.
The solution that they went with and the
(19:37):
way they did it and the procedures that
got invented along the way and how they
were going to handle the rollout and how
they're going to handle the issues as they
come up down the road.
I was more excited about the drive time
stats.
Obviously.
Here's the interview with Ed and Michael from
the Tahoe Truckee School District in California.
(20:00):
All right, Josh, I pulled in these two
guys.
They agreed to come on.
They don't fully know what they're going to
talk about.
Besides, we said something about student MFA.
We heard that they did it.
So we welcome Ed and Michael.
How's it going, guys?
It's going good.
Thanks for having us.
Appreciate being here.
We just jumped on this call.
We didn't even know where you're from.
So I think we know that you're from
(20:21):
California now.
But I guess, Ed, we'll start with you.
Would you talk about yourself, talk about your
school district?
And then, Michael, please take the floor.
Sure.
Definitely happy to.
My name is Ed Hilton.
I'm the Chief Technology Officer for the Tahoe
Truckee Unified School District.
We are one of the largest school districts
in California, 720 square miles.
(20:44):
And we have only 4,200 students.
Wow.
So yeah, in 11 buildings.
So a few of our buildings are quite
small.
We have two comprehensive high schools, an alternative
high school, two middle, five elementaries, and one
charter school.
(21:05):
And we are very close to the border
with Nevada, up in the Sierra Nevada mountains,
east of Sacramento, west of Reno.
And we've already had our first snow.
Everybody thinks that California, we're just kicking it
on the beach.
But in 2003, we had 19 snow days,
if you can imagine that.
(21:25):
Wow.
And I was also moonlighting as a principal
of a small elementary school while I was
doing Chief Tech Officer work.
And my school was on Donner Summit, one
of the places that can get the most
snow in the nation.
If you've heard of the Donner Party, you
know, to look that up, if you're familiar,
but not at school, not at school.
(21:48):
Yeah, the filters might catch that one.
Anyway, it's definitely, we get a lot of
snow.
So, so if you had to go from
your two furthest districts, and travel between those
two districts, how long would it take?
Yeah, the longest school travel time would be
probably about an hour and an hour and
20 minutes.
That's without snow, without construction, which is the
(22:12):
other season, we have winter and construction.
As other, I know other districts in the
Midwest, Upper Midwest do have the same thing.
We have, it's very similar.
Some of our kids spend about over an
hour on the bus to get to school
every day.
Wow, about 80% ridership to ride the
(22:33):
bus.
Holy cow.
Yeah, we provide it for all our, all
your students.
We're still still down bus drivers.
So that's one thing that we would love.
Yeah, I think everybody is.
Yeah.
All right.
What's your role at Tahoe, Michael?
I am the Teacher Technology Specialist here at
the Tahoe Unified School District.
(22:54):
So I work directly with teachers implementing technology
within the classroom, kind of like an ed
tech coach for the district.
I am the only one.
So I work with all 10, 11 schools
that we have.
So you have more drive time than instructional
tech time.
Yes.
A lot of time in the car to
think about, you know, what we're going to
(23:14):
be working on and planning and stuff.
So it's kind of tough with my calendar,
I have to block out like half hours
in between because someone books me for like
a 20 minute and 30 minute in person.
I'm like, oh, I got to get across
town in order to do this or over
the Spooner Summit.
So it's a lot of fun.
But yeah, so I work directly with teachers
(23:34):
and also helping with our one-to-one
implementation of computers, helping students work with their
computers and integrate it into the classroom.
Very cool.
So I guess let's talk about that.
So you mentioned one-to-one.
So is that with Chromebooks?
Is that with Windows devices?
What is that with?
Yeah, we started our one-to-one program
over 10 years ago.
It's been, let's see, 2012 was our first
(23:58):
one-to-one program.
And just to give you a little background,
our frame reduced launch percentage is about 35
to 40 percent.
And it's about the same for English language
learners.
And so at the time I was assigned
to our alternative school, students who had dropped
(24:19):
out and were getting back in, getting credits
to graduate.
I was a math teacher at the alternative
school.
And our new superintendent came and had seen
what we had done there in 2012.
That was the alternative school was the first
school to go one-to-one.
We got a grant from our local education
(24:40):
foundation to get netbooks.
It was right around, I think Chromebooks might've
come out, but it was a little bit
pre-Chromebook time.
So we got netbooks and that new superintendent
was saying, I want to do that across
the district.
Can you help me do that?
So that started my foray into administration for
teaching.
(25:01):
And from then we just started growing from
the alternative school to middle school, and then
out from middle school, eighth grade and up,
and then seventh grade and down.
And we finished a one-to-one implementation,
get this, the fall of 2019.
(25:22):
And that went down to TK and Kinders
as well.
And we used Chromebooks at that point district
-wide.
So now we have deployed, every student has
a Chromebook across the district.
And that was 2020 and we were ready
to go for the big pivot that everybody's
trying to go past.
(25:45):
But yeah, so every student has a Chromebook
and that's our one-to-one program.
So every student with a Chromebook, that means
every student is with a Google account?
Every student is with a Google account.
So we know that we're building up to
the fact that you guys went student MFA.
So I guess, would you unpack what happened
(26:05):
or what decisions led to, what were the
conversations like that led you to that decision?
Hey, student MFA is what we're going to
go to.
Yeah, it's a great question.
We kind of backed into it actually, because
we are, one thing that we have in
our district is, and a philosophy we have,
is device agnosticism for staff and teachers.
(26:28):
And we give them the opportunity, Macs, Chromebooks,
Windows computers, and we have a pretty mixed
environment besides the students.
So we were managing Active Directory, managing Google,
managing Apple logins with Federation through Microsoft.
(26:49):
And so there's a lot of things going
on.
And one of the things we're struggling with
is we were doing all of that manually
right around when we were in the midst
of COVID and just changing accounts.
And we're like, there's got to be a
better way.
So we were actually looking for some kind
of software or a script or something that
(27:10):
would help us configure accounts for us more
automated.
So we weren't having to do all that
manual moving and CSV uploads and working in
the Google admin panel and doing the same
with Active Directory.
And we found Clever IDM, which helped us.
That's the reason we got it, Clever IDM
(27:31):
minus the MFA, just to configure accounts for
students automatically.
So that's what we purchased it for initially.
Around the same time, you know, as cybersecurity
was ramping up during those times where students
were at home and we were doing AB
(27:52):
days and all that, our insurance company was
starting to give free kind of cybersecurity audits
for discounts on cyber insurance.
So we started working with our schools insurance
group, it's a collective of school districts and
county offices in California.
(28:12):
And they provided this consultant called kind KYND
to do an evaluation of your cybersecurity posture
and give recommendations on what should be done.
And so we just started from that first
evaluation started chipping away at the recommendations.
One of them, one of the first ones
(28:34):
was staff MFA, or at least MFA for
folks with privileged accounts, and then all staff
and we kind of chipped away at that.
And then in one of our conversations, we
asked, you know, is this something we should
do for students?
And they're like, well, we're not requiring it
yet.
But it could be on the horizon.
So since we had Clever IDM already, in
(28:55):
one of our calls, they were rolling out
Clever MFA.
And we thought, wow, that might be a
good thing to check out.
Some of our cybersecurity breaches, while we didn't
have one specifically within our district, we continued
to get phishing from other school district student
accounts.
So we kind of knew this was an
(29:15):
issue.
And we had had one or two student
accounts compromised just with, you know, students logging
into each other's accounts.
So we're like, you know what, this might
be a good thing to check out.
So just do you think that's where that
was gonna go?
I thought he was gonna talk about an
incident or something.
Yeah.
Oh, I mean, it's similar to what I'm
experiencing with, you know, that student account takeover
(29:37):
that we had and sending out spam.
But I think this is probably a likely
progression for a number of districts, you know,
like their student accounts are becoming more of
the target.
And after we had our thing, it was
a stance of, you know, we've gone out
of our way to do this for faculty
and staff accounts.
We really, yes, it's hard.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) On this week's episode of the K-12
Tech Talk podcast, we discuss the power school
hacker's sentencing, debrief an AI weapons detection system
gone wrong, and interview a school district who
just rolled out MFA to all students about
their experience.
Thanks for listening.
Live from the NTP studios, this is the
(00:23):
K-12 Tech Talk podcast.
This is episode 238.
Did you guys like my inflection there?
It was crazy.
I know.
I am Josh, K-12 Tech Director here
in mid-Missouri.
With me is Chris.
Me too.
From an undisclosed location in mid-Missouri.
I think he's wearing his Ted Lasso costume
for Halloween.
Oh, that does look like a Ted Lasso.
(00:44):
I agree.
Yeah.
Did you ever watch Ted Lasso after Mark
and I called you Ted Lasso?
Yeah, but it's on Apple, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like I did several episodes, however many
I could fit in with a trial.
Oh, yeah.
And thoughts?
Did you enjoy it?
Oh, yeah.
Super great.
Yeah.
Did you see yourself as Ted Lasso?
We actually have a principal here at one
(01:04):
of our elementaries that I'm pretty sure it's
the Ted Lasso vision, like the motto.
I believe.
Yeah.
It's up at the school.
It's like a staff thing like this year.
Hmm.
I wonder if he paid trademark rights for
that.
So it is Happy Halloween.
Mark has got his camera.
There we go.
Oh, wow.
We knew he would come with a costume.
(01:25):
Mark is Batman.
I am Batman.
I'm Batman.
Tell me, do you bleed?
You will.
That was Batman talking to Superman.
That was Chris' Batman.
Ever dance with the devil in the pale
moonlight?
That's Michael Keaton.
(01:48):
Mark, give me your Batman.
I want to hear it.
You guys said it was the Halloween episode
and I had two seconds to find the
nearest thing.
So I haven't prepared anything.
I just got a Batman mask.
Say, I'm Batman.
I'm Batman.
There we go.
So the only weird thing about that is
the Batman mask was within arm's reach of
you, because five seconds ago you weren't dressed.
(02:11):
How often are you using the Batman costume,
Mark?
Oh, you know.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I have a Batman mask.
And you have headphones on.
Yeah.
I have a Batman mask within arm's length.
What are you going to do about it?
Nothing.
I mean, to each their own.
It's fine.
You reminded me it was the Halloween episode
(02:32):
and so I had to quickly reach for
the nearest thing that had been recently used.
Here's the next question.
When was the last time you wore that?
Apparently recent, because it was really close.
No, no.
I haven't worn this in a long time.
I just have it permanently near me.
Permanently near you?
Don't lie.
(02:53):
We've known you long enough to know when
you're lying.
Do you see me wiping the dust off
of the mask right now?
Yep.
That's something Bruce Wayne would say.
That's not.
Okay.
Yeah.
We should move on before.
So another week, another cloud hosting outage.
(03:13):
Office 365.
I'm sorry, Mark.
Am I stealing your news?
No, no, no.
I forgot about that one.
Yeah.
Office 365.
Microsoft is doing their damnedest to do everything
they can to be just like Amazon.
So they had an outage this week.
Half the web that went down last week,
didn't go down last week, went down this
week.
Did that impact you guys at all?
(03:34):
We really didn't see much of an impact,
I don't think.
We had two applications.
A hall pass solution and then a thing
that we used for some fishing campaign stuff.
So minimal impact.
Yeah.
I know some of the folks I worked
with had talked about Raptor was the bigger
impact that some districts had saw.
Yep.
(03:55):
We got complaints that Raptor was down and
we just figured it was another day.
Josh, did you announce that to your staff?
No, we didn't.
Where was I when that happened?
I wasn't in my office.
God, where was I?
I don't know what I was doing.
For right or for wrong, these outages, I've
tried to just hold the line and not
talk about it.
(04:17):
The AWS one was way more impactful to
us.
So yes, I did send out a message
to that, not the Microsoft Entra Azure outage.
Chris, do you want to hit a sponsor?
I sure do.
If you go to k12techpro.com, there is
a Lightspeed Signal demo article on there.
(04:38):
I did a review of their Signal products.
So check out Lightspeed Systems Signal.
They can help you with your device health.
You can see what outages are happening, just
like what we talked about.
You would be notified, hey, these Chromebooks can't
get to XYZ, whatever that thing is.
It might give you some quicker heads up
than even k12techpro gives because you're going to
(04:58):
see your students and your staff devices report
in that they can't get to particular things
and more.
So check out Signal product with Lightspeed, but
check out Lightspeed for sure and that review.
So Mark, you hinted that you had some
fun news stories.
I mean, I wouldn't say fun.
I would just say very intriguing stories.
(05:20):
I guess the theme of tonight would be
that didn't take too long.
So let's start with AI weapons detection systems.
We've talked about this in the past.
There are a number of different solutions on
the market.
One of the genres of AI weapons detection
systems actually looks at your security cameras and
detects if there is any sort of threat
(05:41):
or weapon in the image feed.
Well, one school in Baltimore County called the
police after their AI weapons detection system flagged
a student or an individual with a gun
outside of their school.
This was after hours, though.
The police responded in force with eight squad
cars.
They detained a group of teenagers and looked
(06:03):
around and found the supposed weapon was actually
a bag of Doritos.
So not very fun and obviously very traumatizing
for the teenagers who are just hanging out
eating bags of chips.
Yeah.
He's just eating his Stranger Pizza Cool Ranch
(06:23):
Doritos for Halloween.
He's just munching on those.
Only you would go with the specific flavor
of Doritos.
Every other news article just said, it's a
bag of Doritos.
And Chris knew from the shade of blue
what flavor it was.
Yeah.
Poor kid.
Pizza flavor.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, anyways, that school district had to release
(06:44):
statements and the family of the students detained
were obviously very traumatized.
I did watch the video footage of the
cops as they responded.
They have the body camera footage.
The police responded very quickly by releasing the
footage.
And it's really unfortunate.
You see a group of teenagers just hanging
out and then being thrown into handcuffs.
And then when the police actually looked at
(07:05):
the image from the AI system, and don't
get me wrong, I don't think they had
the image before they responded.
I think they were responding to a report
of a young person with a gun.
And then they got the image when they
were there.
And they're like, that's very clearly a Ziploc
bag or a chip bag.
So I don't know if there was a
(07:26):
human that reviewed that footage before calling it
police.
I don't know if the system automatically called
the police.
But either way, once they saw the image,
the police were pretty sure that they were
looking for a bag.
It's funny because the conference I was at
last week, if there I bet there were
three or four vendors in the exhibit hall
(07:48):
that all were demoing some sort of weapons
detection.
And it's funny because, you know, you're walking
down the aisle and they're like, here, hold
this AK-47 toy and you hold it
and all these alarms go off.
It's like, well, that's great.
As long as the person walking up to
your building is holding a gun out in
the open, you know, like, look at me
look at like it does nothing for concealed
(08:10):
weapons, or bags of potato chips, apparently.
Yeah, not those aren't potato chips.
Okay, deadly potato chips.
All right, the next article going along the
theme of that didn't take so long.
I like this theme.
Yeah, it's a fun one.
The young man who was arrested for breaking
(08:32):
into power school and hacking into power school
and stealing the data was sentenced.
Did you guys want to guess what the
sentence was?
Oh, I didn't hear this at all.
Tens of millions of student and teacher records.
Was he a minor?
No, he wasn't a minor.
He was like 22 or something, wasn't he?
He's 20 years old.
And going with the theme of that didn't
(08:52):
take long.
I'm gonna say seven years.
I was gonna go five.
Wow, you guys are pretty good.
Now, Josh, the prosecutors were pushing for seven.
Defense was looking for three years.
He was sentenced to four years in prison
with three years of probation.
He did also receive a $25,000 fine
(09:14):
and was ordered to pay $14.5 million
in restitution.
Oh, come on.
A 20-year-old who is now a
felon is not going to make $14.5
million.
That all made sense to me until then.
Yeah, they're basically just gonna garnish his wages.
Which I guess I can get there on
that dollar amount.
On the dollar amount, sure.
(09:35):
I'm sure Power School's insurance company has paid
out.
Yeah, I mean, that's the impact of dollar
amount.
It's not necessarily what he's gonna be able
to pay.
So I'm sure there's lawyers that listen, but
if he declares bankruptcy, what happens to that
(09:57):
judgment?
Does it stay in a place?
Because I know if a business declares bankruptcy,
the judgment kind of becomes null and void.
Because even if they garnish his wages for
the rest of his life, like you said,
Mark, if he gets a job making minimum
wage because he is a felon now, what
are they gonna garnish?
$20 a week?
So quick question then, Josh.
(10:17):
Would you have given him more time if
Josh were judged without a whole lot of
thinking right now?
No, I think the discussion is around a
more meaningful financial...
If you want to go the financial punishment
route, a more meaningful financial...
$14 million is a big number.
It gets headlines.
All it does is bury that person for
(10:40):
the rest of their life in debt.
And it's really unreasonable to expect him to
ever work out or repay that debt.
I don't know.
Well, and on top of that, that money
is not gonna go to any school districts
or families or victims.
It's gonna...
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting line in here though is he did
return about $160,000 in cryptocurrency to the
(11:04):
government that he had taken as a ransom.
However, there is about $3 million in cryptocurrency
that is unaccounted for.
So one of the arguments for a longer
sentence or for a harsher sentence was other
criminals who are watching this are gonna see,
(11:24):
well, if the price is I serve three
or four years in prison and then come
out to millions of dollars in cryptocurrency that
I've been hiding, why not continue and to
do this even longer?
Yeah.
We want this young man to be a
white hat hacker, okay?
We want redemption road for this kid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now prosecutors did reference at least eight other
(11:47):
cyber attacks that he had committed in the
last few years, including some that he had
done in high school.
So chances are there are some high school
teachers and administrators who are aware of this
student and were saying, probably saying, I told
you so kind of thing.
And we all have students like that in
our districts that we've been concerned about.
It's interesting that they were able to reference
items that took place likely when he was
(12:09):
a minor.
I find that interesting.
Yeah.
He wasn't necessarily charged for those.
I think they were referencing them as in
terms of this is one of a series
of attacks.
This is not.
Even though this was his first arrest, this
was a series of incidents that he has
committed.
Yeah.
I would like to know if he grew
up in a a one-to-one school
(12:31):
district with a tech director similar to Josh
that always blocked stuff.
And if that was part of why he
had to go down this path of destruction.
I've been on a rampage to let.
Yeah.
Look what you've made.
Can we read a random message from Josh
that we just got sometime this week?
This message brought to you by Fortinet podcast
(12:51):
at fortinet.com.
I want to read it already.
This was Tuesday at 1201 PM.
Sometimes it's really hard not to be an
asshole.
Do you recall that other context?
I do.
I do recall that.
And that's why I did that.
There's no other context that there is no
(13:13):
background.
There's no follow up.
Chris and I didn't even acknowledge it.
We just know you did that, which hurt.
We just left it.
We do that a lot to you though.
I know it hurts.
And that wasn't even about blocking.
I'll tell you the story later.
That wasn't about blocking anything.
All right.
Finally up in the news.
Now, again, this is kind of completing the
(13:33):
theme of that didn't take long.
Over the summertime, there were a lot of
headlines about a school called Alpha School down
in Texas.
They were promised to be the first AI
forward charter school where students would learn from
AI two hours a day.
There's now an article out from Wired around
(13:54):
former parents, former teachers and staff are saying,
hey, this is not at all that it
cracked out to be.
And so there's a little bit of a,
I would say a hit piece on Alpha
School.
If you read it, there is a lot
of, I would say, concerns that every district
might find in terms of parents worried about
the rigor and the level of stress and
(14:15):
concern from their child.
But there's also a lot of saying, hey,
this isn't all it cracked up to be.
And some concerns around IXL even backed out
and canceled their contract with Alpha School citing
a violation of their terms of service.
And then this issue around is Alpha School
actually going for more wealthy, well-to-do
(14:36):
families.
They particularly chose a neighborhood near the SpaceX
campus in Texas, thinking that you're going to
find more wealthy tech forward families.
And this may not be the model for
everybody.
So whether or not Alpha School is going
to be successful or not, and if this
AI forward approach is going to take a
hold, I'm not sure, but we're already starting
(14:58):
to see cracks that we kind of all
saw coming.
So we'll see.
And that just gets back to that whole
discussion of online educating applications are not the
replacement of human teachers.
I mean, the articles and such pick on
IXL, but they're just one of a number
of that if they are relied on too
(15:18):
heavily, that's not a good thing.
Well, IXL even said, in this article about
this, we are not a replacement for teachers.
You should not be using IXL in substitution
of teachers.
And I think they kind of alluded to
that being the challenge that they had with
Alpha School.
All right.
What else you got?
Anything?
That's it for the news this week.
(15:39):
Hey, I'll talk about chromebookparts.com.
So they have a YouTube channel.
We'll put a link in the podcast description
to that.
Over 300 repair tutorials concerning Chromebooks, procedures on
how to fix motherboards, that kind of stuff
to do the serial number jazz on those.
They cover all kinds of brands and models,
(15:59):
and it's just on YouTube.
So you can go out and get that.
It can help your tech department, help your
student-led tech department.
They have a lot of funny, goofy Chromebook
themed entertainment videos on there as well.
They have one that is with Jurassic Park,
but they call it Jurassic Parts, and it's
kind of a Halloween themed as well.
So check out chromebookparts.com, check out their
(16:21):
YouTube channel.
They can help you with getting the parts
that you need, but they're also offering some
free services out there just to help you
with your repairs.
So I guess the rest of this article
is going to be the interview that we
did with, was it Tahoe Truckee School District
in California on the Western coast of Lake
Tahoe.
As they were describing it, it sounded amazing.
(16:42):
They have an outdoor school, they get a
bunch of snow.
And again, being on the Western shore of
Lake Tahoe would be amazing.
The thing that struck me is he said
his district is so large that if to
go from the furthest buildings would be an
hour and a half drive time with no
traffic, no construction, no delays, whatever.
(17:05):
That's a haul for one district between buildings.
Good talk, guys.
I'm sorry, did you interview them about how
long it takes to drive across their town?
Shut up, Mark.
(17:26):
Yes.
We did.
We talked about that, Mark.
Any other takeaways?
Do you want to just move on from
here?
Mark, you are being very hurtful tonight.
Chris is dying in the corner laughing and
you're going after me here.
Yes, because your words hurt.
What else, Josh?
No, we found them over on K-12
(17:49):
Tech Pro because I had asked a question
about MFA, I think, about student MFA.
And they commented saying they were getting ready
to, this was back in early September, they
were getting ready to roll out student MFA
for their entire student body.
And during the interview, they said they went
live, I guess it was the last week
of September, for all students and their onboarding
(18:12):
and all of it went really smooth.
Little secret, they're using Clever for student MFA
and IDM.
And Mark, I believe around the same time,
you were giving a presentation about passwords and
are passwords a thing anymore?
So it kind of goes hand in hand
with that.
You want to give your take real quick
on what you talked about with your presentation?
(18:33):
Yeah, I actually had done a presentation or
a webinar for K-12 Tech, ironically, also
with the CISO for Clever.
And we were talking about the future of
authentication and challenges that school districts go with
managing passwords and security.
So it was just coincidental that you guys
were interviewing this district about their rollout of
MFA.
That is obviously one of the recommendations that
(18:55):
we give for school districts to consider student
MFA.
So I'm really eager to hear this interview.
I have not heard it yet.
So I'll be curious to see what their
experience was like.
Yeah, I'll say they eased my mind on
what student MFA is and what the impact
is on tech department.
We quickly covered all the things and all
(19:15):
the questions that we typically talk about when
we talk about student MFA.
And I got to the end and I
felt good.
And they weren't blowing smoke.
They were just giving this real life.
This is the case study.
This is what we did.
I told Josh, I still want him to
go first between the two of us.
But it makes sense.
The solution that they went with and the
(19:37):
way they did it and the procedures that
got invented along the way and how they
were going to handle the rollout and how
they're going to handle the issues as they
come up down the road.
I was more excited about the drive time
stats.
Obviously.
Here's the interview with Ed and Michael from
the Tahoe Truckee School District in California.
(20:00):
All right, Josh, I pulled in these two
guys.
They agreed to come on.
They don't fully know what they're going to
talk about.
Besides, we said something about student MFA.
We heard that they did it.
So we welcome Ed and Michael.
How's it going, guys?
It's going good.
Thanks for having us.
Appreciate being here.
We just jumped on this call.
We didn't even know where you're from.
So I think we know that you're from
(20:21):
California now.
But I guess, Ed, we'll start with you.
Would you talk about yourself, talk about your
school district?
And then, Michael, please take the floor.
Sure.
Definitely happy to.
My name is Ed Hilton.
I'm the Chief Technology Officer for the Tahoe
Truckee Unified School District.
We are one of the largest school districts
in California, 720 square miles.
(20:44):
And we have only 4,200 students.
Wow.
So yeah, in 11 buildings.
So a few of our buildings are quite
small.
We have two comprehensive high schools, an alternative
high school, two middle, five elementaries, and one
charter school.
(21:05):
And we are very close to the border
with Nevada, up in the Sierra Nevada mountains,
east of Sacramento, west of Reno.
And we've already had our first snow.
Everybody thinks that California, we're just kicking it
on the beach.
But in 2003, we had 19 snow days,
if you can imagine that.
(21:25):
Wow.
And I was also moonlighting as a principal
of a small elementary school while I was
doing Chief Tech Officer work.
And my school was on Donner Summit, one
of the places that can get the most
snow in the nation.
If you've heard of the Donner Party, you
know, to look that up, if you're familiar,
but not at school, not at school.
(21:48):
Yeah, the filters might catch that one.
Anyway, it's definitely, we get a lot of
snow.
So, so if you had to go from
your two furthest districts, and travel between those
two districts, how long would it take?
Yeah, the longest school travel time would be
probably about an hour and an hour and
20 minutes.
That's without snow, without construction, which is the
(22:12):
other season, we have winter and construction.
As other, I know other districts in the
Midwest, Upper Midwest do have the same thing.
We have, it's very similar.
Some of our kids spend about over an
hour on the bus to get to school
every day.
Wow, about 80% ridership to ride the
(22:33):
bus.
Holy cow.
Yeah, we provide it for all our, all
your students.
We're still still down bus drivers.
So that's one thing that we would love.
Yeah, I think everybody is.
Yeah.
All right.
What's your role at Tahoe, Michael?
I am the Teacher Technology Specialist here at
the Tahoe Unified School District.
(22:54):
So I work directly with teachers implementing technology
within the classroom, kind of like an ed
tech coach for the district.
I am the only one.
So I work with all 10, 11 schools
that we have.
So you have more drive time than instructional
tech time.
Yes.
A lot of time in the car to
think about, you know, what we're going to
(23:14):
be working on and planning and stuff.
So it's kind of tough with my calendar,
I have to block out like half hours
in between because someone books me for like
a 20 minute and 30 minute in person.
I'm like, oh, I got to get across
town in order to do this or over
the Spooner Summit.
So it's a lot of fun.
But yeah, so I work directly with teachers
(23:34):
and also helping with our one-to-one
implementation of computers, helping students work with their
computers and integrate it into the classroom.
Very cool.
So I guess let's talk about that.
So you mentioned one-to-one.
So is that with Chromebooks?
Is that with Windows devices?
What is that with?
Yeah, we started our one-to-one program
over 10 years ago.
It's been, let's see, 2012 was our first
(23:58):
one-to-one program.
And just to give you a little background,
our frame reduced launch percentage is about 35
to 40 percent.
And it's about the same for English language
learners.
And so at the time I was assigned
to our alternative school, students who had dropped
(24:19):
out and were getting back in, getting credits
to graduate.
I was a math teacher at the alternative
school.
And our new superintendent came and had seen
what we had done there in 2012.
That was the alternative school was the first
school to go one-to-one.
We got a grant from our local education
(24:40):
foundation to get netbooks.
It was right around, I think Chromebooks might've
come out, but it was a little bit
pre-Chromebook time.
So we got netbooks and that new superintendent
was saying, I want to do that across
the district.
Can you help me do that?
So that started my foray into administration for
teaching.
(25:01):
And from then we just started growing from
the alternative school to middle school, and then
out from middle school, eighth grade and up,
and then seventh grade and down.
And we finished a one-to-one implementation,
get this, the fall of 2019.
(25:22):
And that went down to TK and Kinders
as well.
And we used Chromebooks at that point district
-wide.
So now we have deployed, every student has
a Chromebook across the district.
And that was 2020 and we were ready
to go for the big pivot that everybody's
trying to go past.
(25:45):
But yeah, so every student has a Chromebook
and that's our one-to-one program.
So every student with a Chromebook, that means
every student is with a Google account?
Every student is with a Google account.
So we know that we're building up to
the fact that you guys went student MFA.
So I guess, would you unpack what happened
(26:05):
or what decisions led to, what were the
conversations like that led you to that decision?
Hey, student MFA is what we're going to
go to.
Yeah, it's a great question.
We kind of backed into it actually, because
we are, one thing that we have in
our district is, and a philosophy we have,
is device agnosticism for staff and teachers.
(26:28):
And we give them the opportunity, Macs, Chromebooks,
Windows computers, and we have a pretty mixed
environment besides the students.
So we were managing Active Directory, managing Google,
managing Apple logins with Federation through Microsoft.
(26:49):
And so there's a lot of things going
on.
And one of the things we're struggling with
is we were doing all of that manually
right around when we were in the midst
of COVID and just changing accounts.
And we're like, there's got to be a
better way.
So we were actually looking for some kind
of software or a script or something that
(27:10):
would help us configure accounts for us more
automated.
So we weren't having to do all that
manual moving and CSV uploads and working in
the Google admin panel and doing the same
with Active Directory.
And we found Clever IDM, which helped us.
That's the reason we got it, Clever IDM
(27:31):
minus the MFA, just to configure accounts for
students automatically.
So that's what we purchased it for initially.
Around the same time, you know, as cybersecurity
was ramping up during those times where students
were at home and we were doing AB
(27:52):
days and all that, our insurance company was
starting to give free kind of cybersecurity audits
for discounts on cyber insurance.
So we started working with our schools insurance
group, it's a collective of school districts and
county offices in California.
(28:12):
And they provided this consultant called kind KYND
to do an evaluation of your cybersecurity posture
and give recommendations on what should be done.
And so we just started from that first
evaluation started chipping away at the recommendations.
One of them, one of the first ones
(28:34):
was staff MFA, or at least MFA for
folks with privileged accounts, and then all staff
and we kind of chipped away at that.
And then in one of our conversations, we
asked, you know, is this something we should
do for students?
And they're like, well, we're not requiring it
yet.
But it could be on the horizon.
So since we had Clever IDM already, in
(28:55):
one of our calls, they were rolling out
Clever MFA.
And we thought, wow, that might be a
good thing to check out.
Some of our cybersecurity breaches, while we didn't
have one specifically within our district, we continued
to get phishing from other school district student
accounts.
So we kind of knew this was an
(29:15):
issue.
And we had had one or two student
accounts compromised just with, you know, students logging
into each other's accounts.
So we're like, you know what, this might
be a good thing to check out.
So just do you think that's where that
was gonna go?
I thought he was gonna talk about an
incident or something.
Yeah.
Oh, I mean, it's similar to what I'm
experiencing with, you know, that student account takeover
(29:37):
that we had and sending out spam.
But I think this is probably a likely
progression for a number of districts, you know,
like their student accounts are becoming more of
the target.
And after we had our thing, it was
a stance of, you know, we've gone out
of our way to do this for faculty
and staff accounts.
We really, yes, it's hard.
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