Absolute Truth

Today, on Karl and Crew, we kicked off a new weekly theme, "Debunking Myths, and we discussed the statement, "There is no absolute Truth".  One of our special guests was Rebecca McLaughlin.  We highlighted her book, "Confronting Christianity: 12 Hard Questions for the World's Largest Religion", which was named book of the year by Christianity Today.  Philip Miller, Senior Pastor of Moody Church in Chicago also joined us.  He challenged us to flip absolute truths on themselves to see what myths stand firm and which ones fall short.  Finally, Dr. Andy Bannister, Director of Solas, author, and speaker, unpacked the power of apologetics in absolute Truth.  Our hearts are with Texas, and we spent time in deep prayer this morning as well.  Edward Graham, Chief Operating Officer of Samaritan's Purse, gave us a special relief update from Texas.  You can hear the highlights of today's program on the Karl and Crew Showcast.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:00):
Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio.
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (00:09):
Carl and crew. And we are helping you on this
beautiful Monday morning, taking your next step with Jesus. A
lot of tragedy in the world are our. Our eyes
and hearts are drawn toward Texas. Horrific flooding. Uh, some
of the statistics on this horrific event are they're almost
mind boggling. Guadalupe River actually surged 20 plus feet in

(00:34):
a matter of two hours or less. And in some
regions around camp mystic, they believe that it probably had
a 20 foot rise in less than 90 minutes. It's
almost hard to get your mind around, isn't it, guys?

S3 (00:47):
It really is. You know, if you don't live near
a river, that can change that dramatically like that. I
think it is. It's it's when you see some of
the images and the pictures and the before and after
and you just so much devastation and heartbreak.

S2 (01:02):
It's. It's overwhelming. Uh, I was in a flood one time.
That was very dangerous in Fairbanks, Alaska. The Chena River
actually overflowed. It was the one summer my dad went to.
Took our family to Alaska, to Fairbanks, Alaska. He was
getting his master's degree at that time. I was a
little guy. And all I remember is the panic of

(01:24):
adults trying to get us into. What I got into
was a canoe, and we got into the canoe when
there was about two inches of water underneath us, and
they said, hold tight. And within a matter of 30 minutes,
the canoe was floating and we were paddling toward some rescue,

(01:45):
some rescue vehicles that were up on some higher ground
that would haul us to safety. But, I mean, I
remember this like it was yesterday because of the panic
that ensued from adults and people that were trying to
evacuate vast swaths of Fairbanks, Alaska. And all I, all
I remember was being was being comforted by some rescuers

(02:09):
in a big military vehicle that loaded us up into
basically what was a dump truck. And standing in the
dump truck is a little guy watching my mom try
to stay calm. And, uh, it was it was crazy.
I can only imagine then what it would be like
for these precious lives to see this wall of water

(02:31):
coming their way, or to feel like there's nothing we
can do. And the stories of heroes that are coming
out of this are just mind boggling. Over 160 were
rescued by a water rescue. One person water rescue guy. Wow.
And his statement a quick interview that I saw. He

(02:51):
says I'm just a dude doing what I'm, you know,
called to do. This is my service. so don't call
me a hero, which makes him more of a hero
in my mind's eye.

S4 (03:01):
Sure. Absolutely.

S2 (03:02):
You know what I mean?

S4 (03:03):
Of course.

S2 (03:03):
It's like, wow, what an amazing thing. Camp mystic. Horrible
things have transpired there. A whole cabin, my understanding is.
And we'll get more clarity in days to come. But
a whole cabin that was near to the river of
6 to 8 year old girls camping at a Christian
camp were swept away. There are crazy stories. Miraculous stories.

(03:26):
One little girl actually wrote a mattress for it. Sounds
like three hours, possibly 12 miles downstream. And she was rescued.
And then I did see some video footage of campers
that were rescued from camp mystic in a bus getting
out of that area after going going for a couple

(03:46):
of miles, it appears. Um, while they were traveling to
get out of this area, they're singing incredible worship songs,
and they were absolutely beautiful. Did you hear that to somebody?

S5 (03:58):
Yeah, I saw that clip. It might. I just broke
down in tears. You're hearing these little voices and these girls,
and they're just singing. And like you said, you see
the devastation out the window, and they are just praising
and praising and clutching each other and singing. It was like, wow.

S2 (04:15):
You see that one shot where they're going across that
little riverbed that was still flooded a bit?

S5 (04:22):
Yes.

S2 (04:22):
And they the one girl that was filming this worship
time on this bus said, oh God, oh God. As
the as the bus is making its way across a
flooded stream and, uh, but it was it brought tears
to my eyes because here are these girls that have
gone through so much in just a short amount of time,

(04:45):
and they're given praise and glory to God. Some might
scoff at that, I certainly don't. I think that's one
of the great graces of God to give us voice
to tragedy and to say, all hail King Jesus. Even
in the midst of a lot of pain. A lot
of a lot of pain, a lot of painful stories,
I witnessed one daddy who was right after the flooding occurred.

(05:10):
He came into that area and I forget what network
was interviewing him, asked him how what we can do.
And he said, I want you to pray. And when
he said pray, he just he broke down a bit
and said, I want you to pray. Our hope is
that we find some of these girls alive. And maybe
my girl. It's just tough stuff, man. It's really hard

(05:35):
coming up here. In a moment we're going to pray. Why?
Because God has got a providence. You know what that means?
Means that he adjusts what we see as everyday life.
And he works beyond human timetable. And he moves Indeed.
God of power, God that transcends any kind of power

(05:57):
we have. And a God whose sovereign, a God that
orders the affairs of this world. There's a lot of
questions we have, but at the same time we pray. Ali,
would you pray?

S4 (06:08):
Yeah.

S2 (06:08):
Today.

S3 (06:11):
Lord Jesus, we just thank you for the promise of
your nearness. When we're crushed in spirit, when we're heartbroken, Lord.
So we just first pray for for the rescue mission
that continues, Lord, for those who are working tirelessly for
families who are waiting for news. Lord, we just pray
God that somehow Lord your presence because it's promised your

(06:34):
presence would be near to them, Lord, that you would
uphold them with your strong right hand. Oh God, that
you would not let the grief and the despair overtake them.
But Lord, somehow, even through this God, your might and
your power would be seen. God. So much heartbreak, so
much loss. But God, we we trust you, Lord, we
trust you. On days like this, Lord, where so many

(06:58):
are facing the unthinkable. God, we pray for the strength
for those who are still out. Lord, who are rescuing. Lord,
we pray just for miracles. Lord, you know it seems
implausible right now, but God, you are a God of miracles.
So Lord, if there are those still clinging to life, Lord,
we pray that they would be found and rescued quickly. Lord, uh,

(07:20):
that you would put an end to their suffering. Lord.
And we just pray God that out of this Lord,
out of this tragedy, Lord, you, you would be seen. God,
that those who've never turned to you before would turn
to you, would turn their hearts, would bow a knee
to you. God, that through this storm, Lord, literal storm Lord,
that your face would be seen, your hand would be seen. God,

(07:44):
we just thank you. And we pray for comfort and
for peace. The peace that surpasses all understanding to guard
hearts and minds in you, Lord. In Jesus name. Amen.

S2 (07:55):
Amen. And let it be. The Lord is near to
the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. It's a
hard thing when you see tragedy like this, especially when
these are young, innocent children. So many of them were

(08:15):
little ones that were away on a camp at camp
mystic in particular. They were between sessions at a couple
camps downriver that some of them wiped out. And yet
camp mystic was filled. The director of that camp, the
owner of the camp director of the camp, was lost
trying to save some of those lives. He was swept

(08:37):
away as well. A lot of pain and a lot
of opportunity for us to pray. And the question is,
why do we pray? Because God moves. God moves even
now in the lives of those who are still living,
those that are grieving. It's a lot of pain. Maybe
God has you crushed in spirit. Today, we want to

(08:59):
point you to the one who can care for your
soul in ways like you can't imagine. Hang on.

S1 (09:06):
Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
You're listening to Carl and crew.

S2 (09:14):
And my heart is drawn this morning. To the broken
hearted and the crushed in spirit. It can feel terrifying
when you come to the end of yourself. And yet
the Lord is near to you, and you know you
want to ask and and really wrestle with, well, how

(09:35):
near is God? Fair enough.

S4 (09:38):
Yeah.

S2 (09:38):
How near.

S4 (09:38):
Is God?

S3 (09:39):
Fair question.

S2 (09:41):
And theologically and practically, the best thing I can offer
you this morning. If you're coming to us here today
and you feel brokenhearted and crushed in spirit. The Lord
is near to you and he is right behind you.
What do I mean by that? The reality of the

(10:04):
lostness of humankind is almost overwhelmingly staggering to me. One
of the myths that we're going to be debunking this
week is this this myth that somehow we are all
Christian when we say, I've been a Christian my whole life.

(10:26):
In fact, we're going to be debunking that myth tomorrow.
All week long, we're going to be debunking myths. We're
just taking some time aside here, just with our hearts
drawn to Texas in this flooding. We're just camping on
this idea here for a few minutes that the Lord
is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.

(10:49):
But I, I almost want to give a precursor to
what we're going to be debunking tomorrow. And that is
I've been a Christian my whole life. We hear that
a lot, right, Ali?

S4 (10:59):
Oh, yeah, we.

S2 (10:59):
We hear that a lot. But that's not true. You
can't be a Christian your whole life. And the question is,
for those that have this delusion of thinking they've been
a Christian their whole life, I, we know that those
are well-intended words, probably raised in a Christian culture, raised
in a Christian home. But we are born with our

(11:24):
backs to God. We're born with our backs to God.
This is why Jesus, when asked by one of his
disciples who was really troubled in spirit, probably not crushed,
but brokenhearted for sure, he said, well, we don't know
where you're going. And Jesus said, let not your hearts

(11:47):
be troubled. Believe in God. Believe also in me. It's
found in John 14. And then he goes on to say,
I am the way and the truth and the life.
And he said, you can come with me to this
place that I've prepared for you. When you realize that

(12:13):
your way no longer works, your truth will not get
you there. And the life you've pursued and wanted your
whole life can only be found in Jesus Christ. That's powerful.
So I want you to know from the bottom of
my heart that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted
and saves the crushed in spirit. And there's so many

(12:34):
tuned in today who feel like I'm coming here for
some hope. And here's the hope. The Lord is near
to you. And if you've never given your life to
Jesus Christ. He's right behind you. So an obvious question is, well,
how do I reach him? You turn around and he's

(12:55):
right there. How do I get a hug from God?
How do I feel? The embrace of a relationship with
Jesus Christ. Turn around. He's right there. Turn around. Is
this very solid biblical idea of repentance. It means turning
away from the path and the way that you've been

(13:16):
walking into the arms of God. It means embracing the
truth that I'm a sinner who needs a Savior, and
his name is Jesus. And I just want to humbly
ask you today, today, do you find yourself brokenhearted, crushed
in spirit, and you know in your heart that you've

(13:36):
never been in a real, living, breathing relationship with the
Son of God? Today you can have that by turning around,
repenting of sin, embracing the truth that Jesus died for
your sins, and surrendering all that you are to Jesus

(13:57):
for the very first time. I say it here often,
but often when we are at the end of ourselves,
we are at the very best place we can be.
And my friend God providentially allowed you to be here
today so that you could hear the hope of the gospel.
Jesus does not invite you into a religious system. He

(14:18):
invites you into a relationship with God. Spirit empowered spirit regenerated.
Change from the inside out. No more worried about. No
longer worried about your circumstances on the outside, even the
behaviors that got you where you are today. But knowing

(14:39):
that God can change you from the inner man and
the inner woman to be great men and great women
of God, because he is doing the work inside you today.
If you have never before fully surrendered your life, all
that you are to Jesus Christ, and you've been walking
your own way, living by your own truth, today is

(15:01):
the day of salvation for you friend. Today is the day.
And I just want you to pull to the side
of the road if you're driving or get to a
quiet place. And I want to pray for you right now,
and I want you to pray along with me. Simply
the words of Jesus repeated back to him from John

(15:23):
14 he said, I am the way. And I've got
a question for you. Are you ready to go the
way of Jesus today for the first time in your life?
Turn around. God is right there. Turn around and turn
everything over to Jesus. Is that you? Just say yes.
That is me. God, are you willing today to embrace

(15:45):
the truth that you're a sinner and you need a savior?
You're missing the mark. You've not been able to make
life work on your terms, and you are giving over
your life to Jesus, embracing the truth that you need
him to save your life. So you're losing your life
for the sake of taking hold of the life that
is found in Christ Jesus. Just say that's me. That's

(16:09):
me God. And now, father, for all these that are
surrendering to Jesus Christ today, your name be praised. Flood
them with streams of living water. Hope eternal. Give them
a life like you promised in John 14. You are
the life. Fill them up, Lord. And I give you

(16:33):
praise today. If the cry of your soul is total
surrender to God through the blood of Jesus Christ, who
paid the ultimate sacrifice for your sin. I want to
welcome you to the family. This prayer of faith is
a cry of the soul. It says, I give, you've
got me. Take over every bit of my life. I

(16:56):
surrender all to you today and a miracle happens. The
life of Jesus is now given to you. The great
exchange has happened and we want to help you in
your first steps with Jesus. How are we doing this today, Alex?

S3 (17:09):
Well, we have a link for you. If you text
the word new to 800 555 7898, we're going to
send you a response that gives you some next steps.
What to look for in a church, everything that you're
going to need to get a good start. Just text
the word new to 800 555 7898 N-e-w new to [phone].

S2 (17:34):
Yeah. And we want to welcome you to the family.
God is proving to you right now that the Lord
is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.
Text new to 800 555 7898. Welcome to the family.

S1 (17:51):
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (17:55):
It's Carl and crew helping you take your next step
with Jesus. We may have something for you to step
into here. Got Edward Graham from Samaritan's Purse going to
give us an update here in just a moment. I
want to give credit where credit's due. I've been talking
about this kid all morning. Now I have a name.
Scott Ruskin, rescue swimmer with the US Coast Guard who
saved 165 lives in the Texas floods. He's 26 years old.

(18:20):
And you know what he said when they asked him
about it? He says, I'm just a dude doing my job.

S4 (18:24):
Wow.

S2 (18:25):
That makes you love him all the more. Uh, when
we find tragedies like this, the question is, what do
we do? Boy, have we got someone for you right now.
Edward Graham. What do we do? You've got a you
got a great mission here, don't you, my man?

S6 (18:40):
Uh, thanks, Carl. I appreciate you having us on. It's.
You know, it's an honor to work in the Lord's ministry,
but it's also during hard and difficult times. And you
see brokenness and hurt so often in times like this
in Texas. So we, uh, my whole office this morning,
we start our morning off in prayer. And so we
lifted Texas up in prayer this morning. Have been praying
all over the holiday weekend.

S4 (19:02):
Yeah.

S3 (19:02):
Edward Graham, our our guest right now, chief operating officer
of Samaritan's Purse. He oversees the international and domestic operations
of Samaritan's Purse. Tell us a little bit about the reports.
I know you're going to be leaving for Texas here
in the next couple of hours. Tell us the reports
you're getting from your team that's already there.

S6 (19:21):
Yeah. Thank you. You know, we keep equipment also down
in Coppell, Texas, right outside of Dallas. And so they've
already deployed equipment. We had assessors go out the following day.
And so we're getting reports about 150 to 200 homes
destroyed And severely damaged. And so after getting the all
clear from the emergency responders there, and when they're done

(19:42):
with an area and clearing out, unfortunately looking for human
remains will go in with church partners and volunteers, and
we'll muck out and clean out these homes that have
been flooded, cut back the drywall and get them dried in. Um,
but there's so much loss and hurt during a time
like this. And many of these homeowners want to know
if God forsaken them or forgotten about them. And this

(20:05):
is where we also partner with the Billy Graham Association.
They send their down there rapid response chaplains that are
trained on how to share hope in crisis, to let
them know their love and not forgotten. And so we
go there to serve in the name of Jesus. After
so much brokenness and loss and the pain right now.
You were talking. I heard the updates this morning, the
news you talked there about the mystic camp, that camp director, uh,

(20:26):
who lost his life trying to save these little girls.
I looked over photos over the weekend of him and
the ministries had there. He clearly had a heart and
a burden for these girls. And I think about the
families that have lost so much. There's nothing you can
tell them right now that eases the pain or the brokenness.
So let's just pray the love of the church lift
up their feet. How many churches were involved in this camp?

(20:47):
That's an you know, you think of that. There's so
many churches that are hurting right now, and we've got
a lot of prayer to do. And I believe in
the power of prayer. It works.

S2 (20:56):
Yeah it does. Edward Graham, our guest right now. What
have you learned when. I don't think anyone comes in
equipped for how to respond to people that have gone
through tragic loss. What have you learned, Edward? What was
an aha moment for you when you were even working
with chaplains? Much your senior had been there, done that.
What did you learn?

S6 (21:17):
Yeah, you know, I learned in combat even too. There's
no there's no really right thing to say other than
to be present. And then the power of the gospel,
you know, when you speak, you speak with the Word
of God and use his words and what Scripture says
and rely on that power, and people are going to
be in such pain when you show up to a
location like that and they're not really interested in your

(21:40):
in your opinion. They want you to be present. They
want you to listen. Um, but they also expect, you know, action.
They need help. They need to be lifted up out
of where they are right now. And that's where the
love of the church comes in. And that's where volunteers,
people listening to your program wondering, well, what can I
do and how can I get involved? Well, Samaritan's Purse,

(22:01):
we need volunteers that aren't afraid to go get dirty.
You know, anyone can do this. We have the right equipment.
We have the tools, we have the chaplains. We just
need people willing to put on the work gloves and
go love their neighbor that is suffering right now. And, uh,
and when asked, has God forsaken me? Answer with what
the Scripture says. Think of Proverbs chapter three, verses five

(22:25):
through six. I think that all the time trust in
the Lord with all your heart and lean not on
your own understanding. And I had I remember in combat
and all my ways acknowledge him and he's going to
direct our paths during times like this. And that's my
prayer for this community down there.

S3 (22:40):
Edward Graham with Samaritan's Purse. If you want more ways
to help, ways to get involved, just text purse to
800 555 7898. Text purse to [phone].

S2 (22:55):
Yeah, I think what's interesting, Edward, I thank you for
taking some time. I know you got a lot on
your plate. We're going to be praying for you. As
a matter of fact, we're going to do that right now.
I'm with you, Edward. You know what I am praying now, guys?
Like I've never prayed before in my life. I was
telling the church this weekend, I don't know why, but
I have a level of expectancy. Let's take a level
of expectancy and God's providence in his sovereignty and his omnipotence.

(23:19):
And we're going to pray. We're going to pray over you, Edward, father,
over Edward Graham and his team with Samaritan's Purse. I
pray in the name of Jesus that you would protect them,
that you would give them supernatural teleprompting by your spirit.
Words to say, where to go, what to pick up,
what boards to move, what to look for. In all

(23:39):
these things we just rely on you and we've seen
you move. You can do it again. And Lord, I'm
thankful for Edward. I'm thankful for his team. And I'm
I'm grateful for people listening right now who are feeling
prompted by your spirit. I have time, I'm not afraid
to get dirty. And I pray in Jesus name that
you'd raise up an army of men and women who

(24:01):
are ready to step up and say, we're putting our
faith on display. We're going to shine so brightly that
you will see our deeds in the middle of agony
and glorify our father who is in heaven. We pray
this believing and confident that as we pray, you go
to work God. In the name of Jesus we pray. Amen.

S4 (24:20):
Amen.

S2 (24:21):
Edward. Thank you. I love your heart, man.

S6 (24:23):
I appreciate it and we love your radio ministry. Thank
you for preaching the Word of God and the power
that comes with it. Thank you so much.

S4 (24:29):
Hey.

S2 (24:30):
Godspeed my man. Again, that keyword is purse. Text purse
to 800 555 7898. Purse to 800 555 7898. And
I'll tell you how bold I'm going to be on
this one right now. If you're a member of 180
Chicago listening right now, I'm going to put out an
alert today. If we've got a couple a few of
you that are ready, you got time. You're not willing to.

(24:53):
You're not afraid to get dirty. I love how he
put that right, Ali.

S4 (24:56):
I mean.

S2 (24:57):
You're not afraid to get dirty. Uh, we're going to
be reaching out today, and. And let's deploy a team.
Let's deploy them from all over the nation. What if
God just moved upon hearts right now and said, I'm
within striking distance. I can get on a plane. I
can get down there. And the link for all of
this is purse to 800 555, 78, 98. This gives

(25:20):
me in the middle of tragedy, pain, anguish, hope rising
up in the name of Jesus. It's got to put
fire in your belly. Ali, this is Hope.

S4 (25:30):
Yeah.

S3 (25:31):
If you want to be a part of it, just
text purse to 800 555 7898. Purse to [phone].

S1 (25:40):
You're listening to Curl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (25:44):
We're going to be debunking myths all week long. In fact,
let me forecast for you where we're going this week.
I've been a Christian my whole life is tomorrow. That's
a myth. But a lot of people believe it. Or
maybe they don't believe it, but they say it. I
need to change my life now. At face value. You'd go. Yeah,

(26:06):
I do need to change my life.

S4 (26:08):
I'm.

S2 (26:08):
I'm down for that. Right?

S4 (26:10):
Oh, yeah.

S2 (26:12):
But the biblical reality is that's not true. Or it's
at least partially true. Only partially. I can choose my identity. Whoa.
There's a hot button issue for the day in which
we live. We're going to debunk that myth a little
bit this week. And I can't break the cycle that

(26:34):
I've been in my whole life. Some of you feel
that deeply. We're going to be tackling that on Friday.
Today there is no absolute truth. It's a tough one,
especially when you look up a definition of truth. Absolute truth,
absolute truth. There's a definition is a statement or proposition
that is universally and objectively true, independent of context, perception

(26:57):
or belief. It remains constant across all circumstances and is
not subject to change or interpretation. Ooh. That's heavy. And
so when I asked grok way early this morning, is
gravity an absolute truth? No, they said, because it's subject
to another person's interpretation. And I'm like, well, jump off

(27:19):
a garage.

S4 (27:21):
Oh, boy.

S2 (27:22):
You know, grok, jump off a garage. Let's find out
what's going on here. So what is truth? Pilate said that.
What is truth? Jesus made a claim. I am the
way and the truth and the life. That's a big claim.
I am the truth. I worked with a guy in
the oil fields who was a very intellectual guy, and

(27:43):
one day we were working on building some cabinets. We're
300 miles north of the Arctic Circle and is a
brilliant guy. And then I'm realizing, whoa, he has some
thoughts that not only had I never thought of, I
thought were kind of crazy. He said, you know, there
are parallel dimensions right here where we are. There are

(28:06):
other things going on around us. There could be people
passing us right now in other dimensions, and we just
cannot see them. Well, how do you argue with that?
You just say, no, there aren't. That doesn't work.

S4 (28:21):
So what?

S3 (28:22):
What? Where did you land with that?

S2 (28:24):
Oh, I'll tell you where I landed. I listened and
I listened, and we were building it together. And I
kept listening. And then I was so pumped when it
was time to go to the chow hall for lunch.
Because that conversation ended. Because. What do you do with
that alley? Yeah. What do you do with that?

S3 (28:41):
And I mean, and I think sometimes when we get
into conversation, if people feel like if people have really
studied up on something, whatever it is that they believe
to be true, and they can present it with a
level of conviction and what seems to be like some research,
it can be hard to know how to how to
approach those conversations when people have what they claim to be.

(29:05):
This is the truth that I've discovered. These are the
fact claims that I'm making, and this is how I
back it up. Sometimes that can get dicey because in
your mind, in your heart, you go, that sounds really off,
but how do I prove it?

S2 (29:17):
How do you prove it? How do I prove there's
no one, you know, dancing a jig in another dimension
right here in front of me in the wood shop,
300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. How do I
prove that? Do I try to bump into another dimension?
Hard to prove. So is there absolute truth? Or is
all truth relative? We live in a world today that's

(29:42):
shaky in the knees when it comes to what is
absolute truth.

S3 (29:45):
Yes, because it seems arrogant to suggest that what you
believe is actually the truth for everyone.

S2 (29:56):
Coming up, Andy Bannister from the other side of the pond.
Let's get an apologist in here and let's drill down
on it. Is there absolute truth? And how do we
know that to be true?

S1 (30:09):
Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl
and crew.

S2 (30:14):
Jesus said it. I am the way and the truth
and the life. No man comes to the father, but
through me. He was very clear. I'm going somewhere. I'm
preparing a place for you, and I will come again.
If those aren't true. And if we can't take them
to the bank. We're like the Apostle Paul says, we're
to be pitied more than any man. But didn't Pilate
asks the right question, guys? Check this out. This is

(30:36):
from John 1838. I'll set it up with this. You
got Jesus making claims of his kingship, and you've got
Jewish leaders saying he's seditious. He's undermining everything that we
are as a culture. And Pilate says, what is truth?
I think he actually wanted to know what the truth was.
What do you say, Andy Bannister? Pilate asked a good question,

(30:59):
didn't he?

S7 (31:00):
Hey, Carl, how you doing? Yes, I think it's an
excellent question. Yeah, arguably, it's one of the most important
questions we can ask. Right? What? What is truth? Um.
I mean, to go, boy. Where do you go from there?
What a great starting point. So Pilate asked the right question. Shame.
I don't think he hung around long enough to wait
for the answer, though. I would say.

S4 (31:17):
Yeah.

S3 (31:17):
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now, he's the director
of Solace. He speaks and teaches regularly throughout the UK, Europe,
Canada and the US, addressing both Christians and those of
all faiths on issues relating to faith, culture, politics and society.
You know, when it comes to the claim of the
Christian that Jesus is the way, we are also saying

(31:39):
that every other way is false, which to many people,
and this is the pushback that I'm sure you hear often.
Isn't Christianity arrogant? Isn't it arrogant of us to claim
that not just that we believe it, that, but that
it's true and that everything else is false?

S7 (31:56):
Well, I'd say a couple of things there. Ali, kind
of straight away. The first thing is that with respect
and we need to be careful not to try and
score cheap points with this one. But the point is,
truth claims are by their very nature, exclusive. So if
I say two plus two is four, you could turn
around and go, dude, you're so arrogant. I think it's nine, man.
How dare you tell me you're crazy Brits with your

(32:16):
exclusive mathematics. If I say hey, you know, the current
president of the USA is Donald Trump. That rules out,
you know, 300 million other Americans who are not the
current president of the USA. And the list goes on.
And to anyone who gets nervous about exclusive truth claims,
I can guarantee that no matter how relative you want
to be, if you're sitting on an airplane about to
take off from an airport, and the pilot comes over

(32:39):
the tannoy and she announces and says, do you know what?
I don't believe in exclusive truth. So once we're at
cruising altitude, anyone you like can come and press buttons
up here, because I don't think I've got all the answers.
I don't think you'd hang around and go, what an
amazingly progressive pilot. You'd be running for the emergency exits
because we know instinctively, actually, deep down, the truth, by

(32:59):
its nature, is exclusive and truth matters. Often life depends
on on truth. It's not just a game.

S2 (33:06):
How do you land on absolute truth? When I ask
Grock about three hours ago, is gravity.

S7 (33:13):
Big mistake. Right away. Yeah.

S2 (33:14):
No, but I'm playing with this one because I said,
is gravity? Is gravity an absolute truth? And this is
what it came back to. It came back to the
definition of absolute truth. It said, well, if it's independent
of context, perception or belief, it would not be truth
to some. How do you even argue with that, Andy?
I'm being real here.

S7 (33:33):
Well, I'd say it's it just shows the danger of
an I because of course, an I doesn't have any
understanding of truth in the first place. I is just
following its programming and it was programmed by flawed human beings. Yeah,
I think so. I think if you go right back
to the ancients, I mean, Plato, you know, that classic
Greek philosopher is quite interesting. He gave to me one
of the greatest definitions of truth that stood for, you know,

(33:54):
4000 years, more or less, he said, you know, among
the things that make truth true and universal and true
and real truth is external to us. So it doesn't
matter what you call personally feel about it. Uh, to go,
it's external to you. So you may not like the fact, uh,
that there's a, there's a, there's a traffic jam on
the highway in front of you, but closing your eyes

(34:15):
and wishing isn't going to make it go away. Um.
Truth is universal. So you know something is true here
in the UK. It's true in the USA. It's true globally. Um,
so that truth, by its very nature is is true everywhere.
Two plus two is four, wherever you go. And then
true truth is also true. Throughout time. It's always been

(34:37):
the case that two plus two is four. It will
always be the case that two plus two is four.
And it's interesting you ask that question about gravity. If
grok was a human being, I would say so. You
do think it's possible that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, grok,
and be floating up near the ceiling somewhere, because gravity
is just, uh, someone's perception. Um, you know, gravity, by
its very nature, is external to us. We can't do

(34:59):
anything about it. We're kind of stuck with it. And
if you if you don't believe that, then perhaps don't
take up skydiving as a hobby doctor.

S3 (35:05):
Andy Bannister, our guest right now. Now, you've written this,
that I think is fascinating, that sometimes we can slip
from the true claim that all people have equal value
to the false claim that all ideas have equal merit.
And I think that this is a good one to
kind of dive into a little bit more, because sometimes
it feels dishonoring to people to suggest that all ideas

(35:29):
are not equal, even though all people have equal merit.
Speak to that a little bit.

S7 (35:34):
That's the crucial thing, Ali, in our age right now,
we've merged those two things. So when you say you
disagree with someone that can be taken as as you
hate them in some way, but that's such a dangerous
slope to go on. First thing, it doesn't respect the person.
You know. If you and I were sitting down over a,
you know, for a coffee somewhere and I happened to say, uh,
you know, come out with something that's not true. Perhaps
as a Brit, I make some comment about American politics

(35:55):
that you look at me and you go, classic, a classic, Brit.
You got it wrong. If you just pat me on
the head and go, no, that's okay. That's true for you.
I won't offend you. Actually, that's treating me like an infant. Actually.
It's going. Andy is so immature and so unsophisticated and
so hopeless. I don't I don't challenge his wrong idea
because he might get upset. That's actually infantilized me. It

(36:15):
hasn't respected me. Respected me is going, hey, Andy, let
me just stop you for a moment. What you've said there.
I appreciate why you might think it, but it's not
actually correct. Can I can I show you why now? Sure.
You can do it in a hateful way. You can
ding me round the head and go. You're crazy, nutter.
You're just mad. That's not helpful. Um, but you can
correct me in a way that's that's loving and engaging

(36:35):
and treats me as an adult. So that's the first
thing we actually infantilize people if we don't separate those
two things. And then the other problem I think you
run into there as well is we're back to the
to the universal nature of truth. We do all kinds
of damage to society. If we don't have a way
of figuring out what's right and wrong and what's true

(36:56):
and what isn't true, I mean, just take some of
the big battles historically of our age. I was in America, um,
kind of recently had spent three months over there, and
one of my highlights was being in Washington and standing
on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial where, uh, you know,
Martin Luther King gave that. gave that amazing I have
a dream speech. And, you know, you look back to
those great moments in American history where where justice has

(37:19):
rolled forward. What does it mean if it turns around
and going, well, you can't challenge someone in injustice because
we might offend them. Maybe it's not the case that
all people are born equal. You know, if you believe
in slavery and racism, that's okay. We'll just pat you
on the head and let you be. I think that's
a devastating place to end up. I think actually, things
like justice and human rights, as well as the bigger
questions of faith and God and spirituality and Jesus and

(37:42):
so forth, all those things collapse utterly if we forget
how to talk about truth, even if some of those
conversations aren't always easy ones.

S4 (37:53):
Yeah.

S2 (37:53):
Andy Bannister, that's a good bump of the cup, because
oftentimes angry evangelicals, uh, dominate the landscape. And their their
willingness to embrace what is real for someone else is
oftentimes wanting. And that's a great challenge, Andy, I love that.
Love your heart. They're coming up here in a moment.

(38:14):
We live in a world, Andy, that each man is
doing what seems right in their own eyes. It's the
absence of truth. It's very subjective. Relative. How do we
witness in a world without absolute truth? More with Andy Bannister.
Straight ahead.

S1 (38:31):
Romans eight brought her to Jesus while broadcasting traffic overnight.
Super die is in the crew. It's curl and crew
on Moody Radio.

S2 (38:41):
All week debunking myths today. There is no absolute truth.
Andy Bannister, our guest from the other side of the pond.
Good to have you, Andy. The last words in the
book of Judges are unnerving. Everyone did what was right
in his own eyes. My question revolves around moral relativism.
If all morality is relative to the person at hand,

(39:05):
doesn't this lead to sexual relativism, even, uh, Of raising children. Relativism. Uh,
death relativism. Doesn't it lead to each man does what
is right in almost any and everything?

S7 (39:19):
Andi it does, Carl. But with one just minor thing,
I would I would add that I found interesting over
the years, most people I've met who are moral relativists,
we live in a very relativistic culture. You've summed it
up well, but no one is a moral relativist in
the sense that they're willing for people to be relativistic.
To them. Most people are moral relativists. They want the
freedom to do what they want, but they want other

(39:39):
people to respect them. I remember once talking to a
to a student years ago who was a moral relativist,
and we're having quite a sort of frustrating conversation. And
then this light bulb moment occurred to me and she
was banging on about, there's no moral values, everything is
personal and so forth. So I leant across mid-conversation and
just picked up her phone and put it in my pocket,
and she said, what are you doing? I said, oh,

(40:00):
I've stolen your phone. Carry on. You were saying, she's like, well,
I want my phone back. I went, no, no, no,
you've just told me that morals are relative and you've
convinced me. So I think stealing phones is okay. It's
okay for me. Might not be okay for you, but
it's okay for me. It's my phone now. So you
were saying? Finally she starts banging the table, saying, give
me my phone back. I went, I'll give you your
phone back. When you concede that some morals may be

(40:21):
more than relativistic. And she grinned and went, yeah. Okay.
Fair point. Can I have my phone?

S8 (40:26):
Give me my phone.

S7 (40:27):
So yeah, moral relativism works if people abide by your rules.
And I always think that inconsistency is is interesting. So
if you're listening to this and you've got friends, family members,
you know who are in this position, just turn the
tables gently and go, are you genuinely willing to let
other people behave to you entirely as they like? I
don't think you are. So there's a hypocrisy issue going

(40:50):
on here. So it's not quite. Society is perhaps not
quite as relativistic as we might first think at times.

S3 (40:57):
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now. I love that question.
I know you're big on asking questions in terms of
engaging in these conversations. Give us some more suggestions for
how to nudge someone lovingly toward at least an openness
to the idea that there is an absolute truth, that
there is moral absolute.

S7 (41:17):
Yeah, I think one of the first things I would
say when you're talking to someone about this, the word morality,
I think, sometimes causes a problem because if you're dealing
with somebody, as there are many in our culture who
are suspicious about religion, sometimes in their mind morality can
sort of mean this very dry, desiccated, almost, almost pharisaism.
You know, they've got this idea that religious people like

(41:38):
to sit up there looking down at others and intoning
these other things you should do, and these are things
you shouldn't do, and they react. And I'm sympathetic in
that because Jesus had a few words to say for
the Pharisees. So a great question to ask somebody might be, hey,
what do you think morality is? What do you mean
by morality? What is it we're talking about? Because that's

(41:58):
I think, sets up, you know, if they give you
that kind of sort of language back to say, well,
you know what? Jesus talks a lot about the good life,
but I don't think he used those. That language. I
think what I find attractive about Jesus, you know, his
whole message was God wants the very best for us.
He wants us to be in relationship with him. He
wants us to love him and love each other. That

(42:19):
was the two commands Jesus reduced the law to, and
everything flows out of that. And so certainly for Christian ethics,
Christian ethics, and Christian morality, I think when you read
the New Testament really should be an attitude of gratitude.
It flows out of, because what God has done for
us in Christ therefore live differently. You could argue that's
a summary of all Paul's teaching on ethics, frankly. And

(42:43):
if that's what ethics is, it looks great when it
gets disconnected from Jesus, and that the life that God
intends for us to have and becomes just dry, desiccated commandments,
no wonder it looks problematic and no longer no wonder
why people then react against it as people react to
the Pharisees. But I think the way into that conversation

(43:03):
is to say to your friend, hey, when you say morality,
what do you mean by that? What does that word
mean to you? Because I think most people would see
it negatively, not positively. And so you've got to start
a few steps back. Does that kind of make sense?

S4 (43:14):
Yes. That's excellent.

S2 (43:15):
That's really good. Andy Bannister our guest right now okay.
So I'm going with this idea. And I think you're
right on. Everybody seeks the good life, whatever that may
look like if that's the case. Andy, I've been so intrigued.
I'm most intrigued with Paul before. Agrippa. Here's a man
that's being called down on his mission, and what he
does is he shares his story. And it must have

(43:37):
been it was three minutes and 10s at reading pace
to tell his story. Yeah. And it's so rattled, Agrippa,
he says, do you think you're going to convert me
in such a short time? It isn't our story, that
truth of the good life in us. Isn't that maybe
one of the best points of argumentation from an apologetic

(43:59):
that's effective?

S7 (44:01):
Totally. I would say there are two components to it,
to a really powerful presentation of the gospel and apologetic
if you want to use the technical language. Carl, I
think the first is our story, and I'll say briefly
why in a second. But then coupled with that is
why people should take our story seriously. Because if you
just tell your story, everyone's got a story. Our Buddhist
friends have a story. Our Muslim friends have a story.

(44:21):
If you just have a story, people need to know
why I should take it seriously so that that is important.
But the story piece is crucial because I think we're
in a time increasingly where more and more, especially younger people,
are not asking the question so much is Christianity true?
That comes later. They're asking the question, does it matter?
Does it make a difference? And your story can answer

(44:43):
that question. And by the way, on the morality piece,
I think it's a very powerful approach. If rather than
sort of bang on about this is right and this
is wrong and starting there. What about backing up and saying, look,
the reason I follow Jesus is, look, I'm not a
good person. I know the kind of person I am. Yes.
And I'm hugely grateful for what God did for me
in coming the person of Jesus while I was still

(45:04):
a scumbag, while I was still a rotter, while I
was still God's enemies. You're paraphrasing Romans five verse eight,
by the way, here. And to go, I'm so grateful
that God welcomed me into his family and forgave me
in Christ while I was not a good person. And
you know what? I'm still not a good person. I'm,
praise God, a better person because of God's work transforming me.
But there are days when you know I'm still a

(45:26):
bit of a mess. But actually what I'm what I
love about being a Christian is God doesn't say, be
a better person, sort your life out, but forgives you
and takes the initiative and then through the spirit in you,
gives you the power to begin changing and living differently.
And that's a very different story, a story of morality.
I think people think the church is sitting there, do
this and don't do the other thing. That's a I

(45:47):
think that's a caricature of the gospel. Rather, the gospel says, no,
here is the power to change and the power to
live differently, beginning with becoming a new creation in and
through Jesus.

S3 (45:58):
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now, I want to
point you to a resource. He's edited and contributed a
chapter to a book called Have You Ever Wondered Finding
the everyday clues to meaning, purpose, and spirituality? Just text
wonder to 855 five 7898. Text wonder to 800 555 7898.

S2 (46:21):
I don't want to let him go, Andy. Hold on
here a second. I think there's a lot of people,
many tens of thousands listening across North America right now,
maybe many more. They have an incredible heart to see.
And this is an epidemic across America, as I'm sure
it is in Europe. A lot of kids were raised
in church, but they were never in Christ.

S4 (46:44):
Yeah.

S2 (46:44):
How in the world do we break through that relativism
that those kids have embraced in a word, in a phrase,
in a paragraph? What do you say, Andy?

S7 (46:54):
Well, since Ali. Ali very kindly mentioned the book, the
approach that we take in that book is to start
with the things that those kids care about. This, by
the way, is what Paul does in acts 17. He
starts with what his audience care about there in Athens.
Start with what they care about. And most young people
I meet are passionate about things like justice. They're passionate
about things like human rights. And that's a great place

(47:15):
to start with those things that they already care about
and then be gently saying, look, all those things that
you matter about, those things that you're animated about, they
only make sense. They only work if human life has value,
if human beings genuinely, genuinely have dignity and value and worth,
if we are nothing more than a collection of atoms,
then justice goes out the window. Human rights is just

(47:37):
a ludicrous idea. It's meaningless. On the other hand, if
the Christian story is true that we were created in
God's image, that God demonstrates our value by dying for
us in Christ, then yeah, there are questions that need answering.
But here's the good news that gives a foundation for
all the things you care about. Justice. Yes, matters. Racism

(47:57):
is wrong. Human rights is really important, but those things
only matter if Christianity is true. So try and find
something in where your friends, your son, your daughter, your grandchild,
whoever it is you care about, try and find something
where they are actually already camped without realizing it. On
part of the Christian story and effectively you're you're saying
to them, come on home, you're kind of halfway there.

(48:19):
I know, yes, you've got frustrations and questions. Bring those.
The church is a place for those things. But come
on back to where those things you already care about
actually best make sense? That's how I often start with
young adults and young people.

S2 (48:31):
That's powerhouse. Andy Bannister, our guest here, guys. And again Ali,
we got a link, don't we? And this is a
great resource.

S3 (48:38):
Just text wonder to [phone]. Wonder to 800 555 7898.

S1 (48:47):
He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
curling crew on Moody Radio. Zero.

S2 (48:58):
This whole week we're going to be debunking myths. They happened.
I saw a story here recently where children across the
world are rejoicing because they had been told forever and
a day that you have to wait 20 to 30
minutes after you eat a meal before you get in
the swimming pool.

S3 (49:14):
That's a popular one.

S2 (49:15):
Now they're debunking it. I mean, I saw it on
a network newscast that that has that was a myth.
But boy, did I believe it. I thought, I don't
get in that pool. I'm going to cramp up and
go to the bottom of this.

S9 (49:29):
That's exactly what you think. The worst possible thing. If
I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then
get in the pool, I'm going down immediately. Yeah, it's
kind of what they make you think.

S4 (49:40):
No.

S2 (49:40):
And the question is, how many of mom's carrots that
are split open for me on this tray, on this
tray are going to have that effect. I remember as
a little kid thinking in Tempe, Arizona, sixth grade, thinking
how many of these carrots constitute a meal?

S4 (49:57):
Isn't that funny? It's awesome.

S3 (49:58):
Yes.

S4 (50:00):
And I'm.

S2 (50:00):
Telling you, every parent believed that myth.

S4 (50:03):
And.

S3 (50:03):
Passed it down.

S4 (50:04):
Oh, yeah.

S2 (50:05):
Generation after generation, apparently.

S4 (50:08):
Okay.

S2 (50:08):
And now that myth has been blown out of the water.

S3 (50:11):
How about this one? Um, Bulls hate the color red.
It enrages them.

S4 (50:15):
Did you believe myth? It's a myth.

S3 (50:17):
Definitely a.

S4 (50:18):
Myth. Okay.

S2 (50:18):
Myth. Okay. I did not know that until this very moment.

S3 (50:21):
Bats are blind. Also a myth.

S5 (50:24):
That's a blind.

S3 (50:25):
Blind is.

S4 (50:26):
A bat.

S5 (50:26):
Yeah, but they're not. I thought.

S3 (50:28):
They are not.

S5 (50:28):
Gray.

S3 (50:29):
They are not blind.

S5 (50:30):
I thought they just saw, like gray. Okay.

S3 (50:33):
Chewing gum stays in your stomach for 5 to 7 years.

S4 (50:36):
Yeah. It doesn't.

S3 (50:37):
It doesn't. How about this one? We only use 10%
of our brains.

S4 (50:44):
Not true. Well, hold it.

S2 (50:47):
Hold it, hold it. Time out here a second. Some
days it feels like that. Would you go with that one?

S4 (50:52):
I would go.

S3 (50:53):
With that one. But I mean I'm as I'm looking
at some of these commonly believed myths, a lot of
them are being corrected. I thought that you lose most
of the heat through your head.

S9 (51:02):
Yeah.

S3 (51:03):
Myth.

S9 (51:04):
I don't know.

S4 (51:05):
That is.

S10 (51:05):
Not true.

S9 (51:06):
I disagree with that.

S4 (51:07):
What do you mean.

S10 (51:07):
You disagree with that?

S9 (51:08):
I disagree. It feels like most of the heat comes
out of my head.

S4 (51:11):
It's not true.

S5 (51:12):
So you can play in the cold without a hat
and not get not get a cold.

S10 (51:15):
You'll catch a cold if you go out. That also
a myth. See? There you go. Colds are caused by viruses. Not.
Don't tell the kids that.

S4 (51:27):
Yeah.

S2 (51:27):
No, I mean it. Yeah, it they are caused by viruses,
not by going out and catching a cold.

S3 (51:33):
Although my grandma, she would she would argue all day
up and down to.

S9 (51:38):
You're gonna catch a cold.

S10 (51:39):
You're gonna catch a cold out there.

S4 (51:42):
All right.

S2 (51:43):
Well, where are you going with this? Because right now
you've just ruined my childhood.

S4 (51:46):
Ali just.

S2 (51:47):
Totally destroyed.

S4 (51:48):
It.

S3 (51:48):
I want to hear from you. You've got one of
those myths you always believe to be true. And then
you realized, uh oh, that's not true at all. 855
five 7898 you can call or text on this one.
What's that myth that boy you believed was true until
it was debunked? 855 five 7898.

S2 (52:10):
I want to hear voices on this one. So let's
get as many callers.

S4 (52:13):
As we can get calls.

S2 (52:14):
What are those myths that need to be debunked or
that you found out that wasn't true? 855 five 7898
goodness sakes, some of these you just gave me, it's
going to take me a few minutes to recover, right?
I don't know if I'm going to make it.

S1 (52:33):
Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
and crew on Facebook and Instagram.

S2 (52:39):
Man, I'm glad this one's a myth. You can get
warts from touching toads.

S9 (52:44):
Oh yeah, I did used to think that one.

S4 (52:47):
Yep. You did. Yeah.

S3 (52:48):
Oh, I definitely thought that one.

S2 (52:49):
Well, I'm glad I didn't, because I touched a lot
of toads.

S3 (52:52):
And you were all good.

S2 (52:53):
Yeah. No warts. Uh, if you swallow watermelon seeds, you'll
grow watermelon in your stomach.

S4 (53:00):
Yep. Come on. I feel like I should have.

S3 (53:04):
Thought more deeply about that one, because. Yes, I believed that, too.

S2 (53:07):
All you got to do is do a little bit
of thinking, going. Hmm. I wonder how often that's happened.

S3 (53:13):
It just keeps getting repeated. And so it you don't
even critically examine it.

S9 (53:18):
It happens. When I was a little kid, my older
brothers told me, you know how when you get, like,
a pizza from, like, I don't know, like a Papa
John's or something like that. And there's those little, like,
air bubbles on them.

S4 (53:28):
Yes.

S9 (53:29):
Yeah. My brothers, when I was like five, my brothers
told me that there were little pizza men inside of
those bubbles that when I ate them, they would swim
around inside and make me healthy. That's so. I don't
think that's a I don't think that's.

S4 (53:42):
A common one. I give your.

S2 (53:44):
Brothers an honorable mention.

S4 (53:46):
For that one. Yeah, that's pretty creative.

S2 (53:48):
That's really.

S4 (53:49):
Creative. Yeah.

S2 (53:51):
Ivy in Ohio. What's that myth that was debunked for you?

S11 (53:56):
Well, all right, so it wasn't exactly debunked for me, but, uh,
I don't I don't, uh, it's the one that says that, uh,
dogs can only see black and white. I don't know,
I feel like I feel like my dog can definitely
see color. That's all. Oh.

S2 (54:12):
So you're still believing it, even though it might be true? Okay,
I get you. Ivy. Actually, I appreciate.

S9 (54:18):
Ivy is correct. Saying he feels like his dog doesn't
see just black and white because that that is a myth.
Dogs can see more color than just black and white.

S4 (54:26):
Oh, yeah.

S9 (54:27):
Okay, so. So he is. He he thinks that it
wasn't debunked, but it's debunked now. Because it is. It
is incorrect.

S2 (54:33):
That's good to know.

S4 (54:35):
Yeah. Did you.

S3 (54:35):
Know did you know that when.

S4 (54:36):
Carl was here I had heard.

S2 (54:38):
You know, one time I had 50 huskies. And I
believe that until this day, I thought that they could
see two shades of black and white. Okay.

S4 (54:46):
I thought my dog.

S9 (54:46):
Was living in the 60s.

S4 (54:47):
Nope. All right.

S2 (54:49):
I thought my dog was living in the 60s. You're
a piece of work. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Swallow your gum.
One came through. I'm still having a hard time with bulls.
Don't charge or irritated by red. Then what in the
world is the guy out there doing the.

S9 (55:06):
It's the movement of the blanket.

S4 (55:08):
Yeah.

S9 (55:08):
Not the color.

S3 (55:09):
The bulls actually don't see the color.

S2 (55:12):
So it's the movement. It's not the color. So the
color is more for the spectators than it is for
the bulls?

S9 (55:18):
Exactly. It's been.

S2 (55:19):
Well, there you go. There you go. I don't know
if this is a good segment or not. It's just
making life sad for me because a lot of these,
I was just enjoying believing. Now it's pretty good, I'll
tell you. Stephanie in Indiana, what myth was debunked for you? Steph?

S12 (55:35):
I love.

S13 (55:36):
The myth. If you tuck your hair behind your ears
and it'll eventually make your ears stick out permanently. My grandma.
My grandma used to say that Grandma's man.

S4 (55:49):
Grandma's are the source.

S14 (55:50):
Of a lot of these myths.

S4 (55:51):
I'm telling you, they do a lot over time.

S14 (55:55):
The repeated tucking is going to cause those ears that
I've not heard that one. But, Stephanie, that is hilarious.

S2 (56:03):
Lest I get a myth out there about cats, could
you please check this one out? Here's what I've heard.

S4 (56:08):
Okay. What if it's.

S2 (56:09):
Right or wrong? I've heard that cats do not see
well at all beyond like 30, 40ft.

S3 (56:14):
Okay, let me see if I can figure it out.

S2 (56:17):
That somebody check that one out, would you please? Uh, yes. 0607.
Thank you. If you swallow your gum, your guts will
stick together. No, I had not heard that one. That is,
there's some things people ought not tell their children at all.
That would be one of them. Your guts are going
to stick together if you swallow your gum. I heard

(56:38):
that it stayed in your belly for 5 to 7 years.
Found out that one's a lie.

S3 (56:42):
Yeah, that one I believed too.

S2 (56:46):
If I drink too much water, says 2857, I'll have
frogs in my stomach. Who tells people this stuff?

S9 (56:53):
Also, Carl, you were correct about cats. They they can
see blurry past 20ft, but but it's blurry.

S3 (57:02):
So they have less. Their vision is less sharp than humans.

S2 (57:06):
I'm going to tell you something funny.

S4 (57:08):
Interesting.

S2 (57:08):
I felt sad for her two rescue cats when I
heard that last week. I felt sad for them because what?
Beyond 20ft is so much awesome stuff and these guys
can't see it.

S4 (57:19):
Well, they just.

S3 (57:20):
Got to get closer.

S2 (57:21):
I know.

S4 (57:21):
But.

S2 (57:23):
It's hard to. They're stuck in a house. They can't
see the beautiful green tree.

S3 (57:29):
Well, there's an opportunity. Maybe they need glasses because I
don't know how well I see beyond 20ft.

S14 (57:34):
Without my glasses.

S9 (57:35):
Just take them to.

S4 (57:35):
The coming up.

S2 (57:37):
Taking more of your calls. It's a little crazy. Debunking myths.
What's the myth? You believe that? Now you go. Someone
was pulling one over on me. The 800 555 7898.
Give us a call. We'd love to hear your voice.

S1 (57:50):
Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.

S2 (57:56):
Just having a short shot of fun. What myths were
debunked for you? Oh, grandpa, why'd you do this? 6021
says when I was young, my grandpa used to tell
me that dragonflies would seal your eyeballs shut if you
let them get too close.

S4 (58:11):
What?

S9 (58:12):
That's such a weird one.

S4 (58:14):
Goodness. Interesting.

S2 (58:16):
Going back to the phone lines, who do we have here?

S3 (58:18):
We have Roy, first time caller from Ohio. What's that
myth that's been debunked or maybe needs to be?

S15 (58:24):
Okay, here's the deal. I'm a certified personal trainer. And
what used to drive me crazy was when people come
in and they tell you they see some muscle on
a person or me, and they would say, oh, all
that muscle is going to turn to fat if you
quit working out. Well, it can't happen. Apples can't turn
to oranges.

S16 (58:44):
And what happened?

S2 (58:46):
We got the passion of a personal trainer here.

S4 (58:49):
Keep going.

S2 (58:49):
Roy, this is great. No, no. Go ahead.

S15 (58:53):
You know, if you stop working out, your muscles will atrophy.
And then if you keep eating it like you were
when you were working out, well, then you can get
fat on top of that, uh, shrunken non-US muscle.

S4 (59:12):
Well, there you go.

S2 (59:13):
This is this is very good, Roy, because I did
hear that for years now. I think that was debunked
in my brain as I got a little older here.
But atrophy. Yes. Turning to fat. No. What was what
what was the purpose of that myth? To not go
to the gym.

S4 (59:32):
I know, to discourage.

S9 (59:33):
It's all going to turn to fat anyway.

S4 (59:34):
Soon as it's not working out.

S14 (59:36):
Because if you stop working out, it's.

S3 (59:38):
Like, no, no, no, no. There are benefits to working
out to weight training. Let's go for.

S4 (59:42):
It.

S2 (59:43):
Let's go back to the phone lines. Who do we have?

S4 (59:44):
Ali.

S3 (59:45):
Let's go to Evelyn. First time caller from Florida. What's
the myth that you heard? That's been debunked.

S13 (59:51):
Hey. Good morning. Hey, I heard all my life that
if you eat salt, it dries your blood out.

S4 (01:00:00):
Wow.

S3 (01:00:01):
Okay, I.

S9 (01:00:02):
Guess.

S3 (01:00:03):
I've heard.

S4 (01:00:03):
That one. Where do these come from?

S2 (01:00:06):
Where do they come from?

S9 (01:00:07):
Maybe to get your kids to not eat as many
French fries or something, like, I don't know.

S3 (01:00:13):
It's a.

S4 (01:00:13):
Mystery there.

S2 (01:00:14):
There is. Usually with these myths, there's another motive. Like
the swimming one. We've already tackled it. But miles in Florida.
What do you say, Miles?

S17 (01:00:22):
Well, you know what? Since you already heard that one.
The other one was when I was in Little League
and I played Little League baseball, and I also played football,
and I always wanted I was always going to the
gym and my mom would say, no, if you lift weights,
it's going to stunt your growth. And I hated.

S4 (01:00:39):
That.

S17 (01:00:40):
You know, because I wanted to work worst because all
the other guys were bigger than I was, you know.
And so that was the one. I couldn't stand it.
All my friends got to go and work out, but
I couldn't go work out.

S2 (01:00:51):
Well, here's the good news. Even if your mom was
right back then, Myles, the growth plates are done growing
so you can go to the gym. I want to
tell you, you can go to the gym Myles. Everything's fine.
Thanks Myles for calling in. It's totally safe. These are hilarious.

S9 (01:01:07):
They are really cracking knuckles.

S2 (01:01:09):
Cracking knuckles 4701 cracking knuckles caused arthritis I did hear that.

S3 (01:01:15):
And I definitely heard I've seen this one come in
a couple times about crossing your eyes and they'll stay
that way. That was a that's that that's a myth.
I think it.

S4 (01:01:25):
Discouraged.

S3 (01:01:25):
Eye crossing.

S2 (01:01:27):
Yeah I mean it hurts, but they don't stick, thankfully. Uh,
there's some funny ones in here, too. Uh, my wife
thought that the North Pole was a myth, Like Santa.

S4 (01:01:42):
I like to.

S9 (01:01:43):
Like. Yes. Well, I think when you think of the
North Pole, you think of like, there's a Christmas shop
up there, you know, like a factory. But it's just
like a it's just a place.

S3 (01:01:52):
I is it in Alaska?

S2 (01:01:55):
Well there's two. There's two North Pole and that's north
of the city of North Pole. But there is a
North Pole.

S4 (01:02:01):
Alaska.

S3 (01:02:02):
I actually just found this out over the weekend. It
came out, came up. Someone said that they had been
to the North Pole. And in my mind, I was going,
that exists. I didn't know that was a real place.

S9 (01:02:12):
Oh, just this weekend.

S4 (01:02:13):
Just this weekend.

S3 (01:02:14):
Someone told me they'd been to the North Pole. And
I was thinking, did you get to see Santa Claus?
But I guess it's a real place.

S4 (01:02:23):
Oh my goodness.

S2 (01:02:24):
Someone gave this one. This is sobering, but it's this
is a myth that needs to be debunked. And I
think it already has been. Sticks and stones may break
my bones, but words will never hurt me.

S4 (01:02:34):
Definite myth. Definite myth.

S2 (01:02:38):
Maybe. To the flip side, it'd almost be better off
with sticks and stones. Good feedback here. Some crazy myths
out there. We're debunking them all week long. Hang on here.

S1 (01:02:49):
She was trying to earn her way to God, but
God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S3 (01:02:58):
We have Rebecca McLaughlin with us this morning. She wrote
the book Confronting Christianity 12 Hard Questions for the World's
Largest Religion.

S2 (01:03:06):
So let's tackle a big one. How can you say, Rebecca?
There's only one true faith, you narrow minded evangelicals, some
might say.

S18 (01:03:18):
Um, I absolutely answer to the accusation of being evangelical.
I don't know that I'm. I hope I'm not narrow minded.
And I say that because I actually make it a
priority to read and listen to people who think very
differently than I do.

S4 (01:03:33):
Including.

S18 (01:03:34):
Plenty of atheists and agnostics thinkers. And I think when
it comes to the question of how can you say
there's only one true faith it feels to people like
it's respectful to all the different kind of world religions
to say, you know, maybe you guys each have a
different piece of the pie. You know, maybe there are
just multiple ways to look at the question of God.
Maybe there are multiple paths. You know, there are various

(01:03:54):
kind of metaphors and stories people tell to suggest that
perhaps Christianity and Islam and Hinduism and Judaism and Buddhism
could all be true in their own ways. And one
of the biggest problems with that is Jesus. And why
do I say that? Well, number one, Jesus claims about
himself are wildly exclusive and universal.

S4 (01:04:12):
You got that right.

S18 (01:04:14):
You know, Jesus says he's the light of the world.
He says he is the way, the truth and the life.
He says he is the resurrection and the life. And
the kinds of claims that Jesus makes about himself are
ones that are either crazy and ridiculous and untrue, or
mean that he is actually the one true Savior of
the world. And you know, I'm happy to talk to
anybody who thinks that Christianity is wrong. I think that's

(01:04:36):
a respectable thing to think, and I would love to
sort of talk to them about why they think that
and blame, why I disagree and I believe the claims
of Jesus, but actually to say that Christianity can be
true and Islam can be true and Hinduism can be true, etc.,
is ultimately less respectful to people who hold any of
these religious beliefs. Because what we're saying is, we don't
take you seriously enough to take your claims on truth seriously.

(01:04:57):
The other problem that we have with this idea that
all religions are sort of basically saying the same thing,
or they can be kind of reconciled to one another,
is the fact that Christianity depends on one specific historical claim. Now,
as a follower of Jesus, I believe that Jesus died
on a cross 2000 years ago and that on the
third day after that, he was physically raised from the dead.
So let's look at what the three great monotheistic religions

(01:05:20):
say about that Judaism, Christianity, Islam. So Jews, and for
that matter, Hindus and Buddhists and atheists and agnostics would
say that Jesus died on a cross, but he didn't
rise from the dead. Muslims would say that Jesus actually
didn't die on a cross. He just seemed to. And
Christians say that Jesus died on the cross and was
raised physically from the grave on the third day after that.

(01:05:40):
Now we can say, you can't prove that Jesus rose
from the dead. I agree, I can't prove beyond reasonable
doubt that that happened, but it either happened or it didn't.
So either I'm correct that Jesus rose from the dead,
like walked out of his grave in bodily form on
the third day after he was brutally executed. Or I'm
wrong and he didn't. But there's actually no way for

(01:06:01):
both me and my Jewish friends and my Muslim friends
to all be correct. Because once we say that if
we say that, yes, well, it can be true for
me that Jesus rose from the dead, but not true
for my Jewish or atheist or agnostic friend, then we've
lost our entire grip on history and everything just becomes perspective.
And so that's just a place that we don't want
to land logically or rationally.

S3 (01:06:21):
Rebecca, I'm curious because you are clearly someone who engages
in deep conversations with a lot of people who believe
a lot of different things. What fruit have you seen
of this sort of Study and willingness to engage with people.
Answer questions. What's the fruit you've seen of this in
a conversation? Maybe this is you can answer this generally

(01:06:43):
or specifically of having this conversation where you're obviously well
studied and equipped, but also willing to really listen and
understand where other people are coming from.

S18 (01:06:52):
Honestly, I don't think any of us want to listen
to somebody who hasn't listened to us. I think it's
just sort of a basic piece of of human nature
that when somebody shows an interest in what I think
and my life story and what I believe and why,
that actually makes me feel respected as a human being,
and it makes me more interested in what they might
have to say about their life and their beliefs and

(01:07:14):
how they've come to them as well. And so I
think one of the things, if you like me to
follow Jesus, I think one of the the most powerful
things that we can do is actually meaningfully listen to
other people's stories. You know, perhaps you have a friend
who identifies as an atheist rather than sort of going
straight in with like, well, let me tell you why.
I think it doesn't make any sense to be an atheist.
Why not say, oh, that's really interesting. I would love

(01:07:35):
to hear how you've reached that conclusion. Maybe there'll be
pieces of their life story. Perhaps they were raised in
a religious tradition. They became really disillusioned with that. Perhaps
they they kind of feel wistful. They wish that they
could still believe in God, but they don't. Or maybe
they've become angry because of some particular experience. Like, I
want to know what the individual in front of me
believes and why. And then I want to be able
to say to them, hey, this is why I actually

(01:07:56):
think that Jesus makes the most sense of the world
around us today. This is why I think that Jesus
fulfills our deepest longings for justice and love and relationship.
This is why I think that Jesus helps us to
bring together what we know about the world from science,
with what we deeply believe about the world ethically. And
this is why I think Christianity kind of makes sense

(01:08:17):
not just in isolation, but actually makes sense of the
world that we see around us and the lives that
we live. It gives us a hope and a sense
of meaning and identity and purpose that we can't actually have.
If we take atheism to a sort of logical conclusion,
if we look around the world consistently from an atheist perspective.
And you know, I'd love to tell you more about
Jesus if you'd be interested. Yeah, I think there's an

(01:08:37):
incredible openness, at least. I mean, I'll speak for where
I am. I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts, the US here, and
I'm seeing more openness and opportunity to share the gospel
now than I have ever seen in the 16 years
that I've lived.

S4 (01:08:50):
That's that's a big statement and.

S2 (01:08:53):
That's so encouraging. Rebecca McLaughlin here with us today. You know,
I want to kind of double up on what Ashley
just said and ask you a curious question. You're obviously
a great theologian scholar, apologist, but I look at the
26th chapter of acts, and I see Paul appealing to
Agrippa telling his story.

S4 (01:09:14):
He's he's.

S2 (01:09:15):
Just.

S4 (01:09:15):
Telling his story.

S2 (01:09:17):
Personal story. You've heard theirs. How how does that fit
into the mix with you? You must be your own
storyteller at some point, rather than just saying, read my
book on these 12 hot button questions here.

S4 (01:09:31):
You must pour out your heart, right?

S2 (01:09:32):
That's rather effective. We find in the scriptures.

S18 (01:09:35):
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I write books which
could be kind of categorized as apologetics, or people sort
of seeking to give reasons for the hope that we have,
as Peter puts it in his first letter. And I
think today especially, we need to be ready to show
up with our whole selves and not only with our
kind of rational arguments or examples. So yeah, I'll share

(01:09:56):
things in my in my books and in my speaking
and my personal conversations that are like, this is where
the rubber hits the road for me. Or like, this
is an experience that I had where my faith in
Jesus really made a massive difference. Or here's a friend
of mine who has gone from darkness to light just
in the last year, and this is how she would
explain how that happened for her. And I have so
many friends now in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who go back, you know, one, two, three,

(01:10:19):
five years and they would have checked every box for
like least likely to be interested in Christianity. You know,
they're Gen Z, they identify as LGBT, they don't have
any Christian background. They're interested in pagan spiritual practices or
whatever it is. Like the people who you would not
pick off the list is like, oh, well, this person
would be interested in Jesus. And they've come to faith
in Jesus. And so being able to tell some of
their stories is super helpful to me.

S4 (01:10:40):
Because.

S18 (01:10:41):
I have the testimony that every Christian parent wants their
kids to have, which is that I don't remember a
time when I wasn't following Jesus. I have a very
boring testimony, and I love it because, you know, that's
one of the ways that the Lord uses us. But
I have so many friends who have really surprising stories
of faith where Jesus has kind of grabbed them in
an unexpected place and and pulled them into his kingdom.

(01:11:02):
And so I want to be telling their stories as
well as mine.

S2 (01:11:05):
Rebecca, we want to thank you. This has been incredibly
compelling and massively encouraging. This is a book you need
to get today.

S3 (01:11:14):
Just text the word 12. Spell it out. Book's called
12 Hard Questions for the World's Largest Religion. Text 12
to 800 555 7898. Text 12 to 800 555 7898.