How to Kill Sin with AI and Identify the 3 Sins in Poor Money Management

Today, on Karl and Crew, we dove deeper into our weekly theme of “Killing Sin” by discussing the importance of eradicating sin. We were all born into sin, so it’s the nature of our flesh to sin, but we aren’t bound to it because Jesus Christ delivered us from it. As followers of Christ, we are to cast down and kill the sin, which is precisely what God wants us to do. We turned to Proverbs 6:16-19, where we see how God feels about sin. We then examined Romans 12:1-2, where Paul instructs us to present our bodies as holy to God and not to be conformed to the world. Are you killing the sin in your life? Dr. Drew Dickens also joined us to discuss how Artificial Intelligence (AI) can help us overcome sin. Dr. Dickens is a visionary leader, AI expert, and scholar who has made significant contributions to the intersection of technology, spirituality, and faith-based engagement. He is also the founder of the Encountering Peace app and the Encounter Podcast, which provides biblical meditations, resources, and dialogue. Dr. Dickens has also authored the book “Whispers of the Spirit: A 40-Day Guide to Intimate Prayer.” We then had Rob West join us to discuss the three sins we need to overcome to achieve biblical financial stewardship: Greed, Fear, and Pride. Rob West is the host of the nationally syndicated radio program, Faith and Finance Live, which airs weekday afternoons at 3 pm on 90.1FM. He is also the host of the Faith and Finance podcast and the CEO of Kingdom Advisors, a community of financial professionals who deliver biblically wise financial advice. Rob has also authored the 21-day devotional, “Look at the Sparrows.” You can hear the highlights of today's program on the Karl and Crew Showcast.

If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps: 

Gospel (Killing Sin) [ 57:50-01:06:27]

Dr. Drew Dickens Interview (Killing Sin with AI) [ 06:56-23:34 ]

Rob West Interview (3 sins of Poor Money Managment)  [ 42:55-57:40 ]

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:00):
Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio.
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (00:08):
Carl and crew helping you take your next step with Jesus.
I am broadcasting from Maranatha in Michigan and it has
been an incredible time up here. Uh, what an amazing
group of people I'm with on the shore of Lake Michigan.
About four hours drive from Chicago, four hours depending on

(00:31):
where you're at in Chicago. It could be three hours.
Could be four hours. Yes, folks, it's one hour to
get across town on a good day.

S3 (00:39):
That's a good day. Correct.

S2 (00:40):
What a.

S4 (00:41):
Good day. Tell me what the evening sessions have been like.

S2 (00:44):
You know they have. The Spirit of God has been
moving in power, Ali. It has been amazing. And we've
just been breaking down. I haven't even told anyone what
I'm doing here with this message series that I'm giving,
but I'm basically doing first time ever. I've done a
conference on Killing Sin, which is a book that I

(01:04):
wrote this year, and it has been awesome. God has
just been peeling paint. Um, you know what we've done
thus far with the ground that we've covered and some
of you might say killing sin. What kind of a
crazy topic is that? Well, it really flows out of
not only Jesus's words. If your eye causes you to sin,
gouge it out. And if your hand causes you to sin,

(01:27):
cut it off. And the reason Jesus said those words
is simply this we need to take extreme measures to
defeat and kill what is killing us. And so he's
being hyperbolic in that statement. But the apostle Paul in
Romans eight verse 13 says, for if you live according
to the flesh, you will die. But if by the

(01:51):
spirit you put to death the deeds of the body,
you will live. Pretty strong language, pretty definitive. So you
got to go. Okay. Well, what's happening here? And is
he proposing sinless perfection is one good question you got
to ask yourself if you're really thinking about this. And
the answer is no. But clearly what Paul is speaking

(02:13):
of and just spiking what Jesus introduced is that we
do not have to be slaves to sin. And that's
what Romans six is all about. Praise be to God
who liberated us from this life of sin and death.
So it's been an awesome time, ally. Uh, we're we
got to the point last night where? See it, own it,

(02:35):
hate it. And I was unpacking all the scriptures of
what God hates in Proverbs 616 through 19. And then
the need to hate what is evil in order to
cling what is good out of Romans 12 nine. It's
been epic. So I'm going to break down a little
bit of that today. But the reception, the receptivity of
people here has been just Phenomenal. It's just been humbling.

(02:58):
And we got hundreds of folks here that are just
on fire for the Lord. And it's it's neat to
see the Word of God bounce off these hearts flame
for the Lord.

S4 (03:08):
Nor are these is it all men? Is it men
and women? Is it families?

S2 (03:13):
Men? Women? Families? So they've got they got a cool
thing going on here. So they've got. If you're listening,
we'll tell you where to find out about this camp.
This camp is so tremendous. The history here is almost
100 years. And, uh, guys, like as I mentioned yesterday,
Billy Graham has spoken here in the past, and it's
it's an awesome situation. So what they do is they

(03:36):
have a kids ministry going at the same time as
these evening sessions. So these kids and they're not just
getting babysitting time, they've got teachers who are flat dishing
it up for these kids for a full week. So
they're getting immersed in Bible truth and liberating truths. And
so I've got with me in the auditorium, you know,

(03:56):
probably looks to me like if my eyes don't deceive me,
looks to me like about 15 or 16 on up. Uh,
so high school age. On on up. And it's beautiful.
We got a 98 one year old woman here. The
only reason I know that is I met her and
her friend told me. You know how old she is.

S3 (04:17):
Good friend.

S2 (04:18):
98. And, uh, to watch a 98 year old woman
lean into the truth of God's word. Still changing. Wow.
Still getting a grip on what it is to walk
with Jesus. Oh.

S3 (04:30):
That's pretty remarkable.

S2 (04:32):
Thing. Yeah, it's really, really cool. So, yes. Um, killing sins,
a real thing. One writer, John Owen, called it mortification
of sin, which is the humiliation of sin. It's a
classic book, John Owen. In fact, he's so strong on
this one. He said, be killing sin or sin will
be killing you. It's his most famous quote from that book,

(04:52):
and he's right about that. We can all attest to that.
I don't need to go around the circle here today.
We know that's true. And so the question is, how
do we do it? We're going to be breaking it
down today coming up here in a couple of minutes.
This is crazy. What's going to happen here this morning.
So we got Drew Dickens coming in.

S3 (05:09):
Yes.

S2 (05:10):
Now he plugged in a long query. So he's an
AI expert. He plugged in a super long query on.
In fact, he starts this dialogue with AI by saying,
take on the role of my elite spiritual coach, rooted
in evangelical Western Protestant theology and trained in spiritual direction, psychology,

(05:32):
and behavioral science. I'm seeking clarity around the theme of sin, mortification,
what needs to begin, what needs to end, and what
needs to be surrendered or strengthened. Now, the query that
it plugged in went on many more sentences, and it
ends with, my goal is for you to help me
move from vague good intentions to spirit empowered obedience and joy. Ready?

(05:54):
Ask me the first question.

S3 (05:57):
Whoa.

S2 (05:58):
Whoa is right. So I am dying to hear this. No.
No joking. Drew Dickens, PhD on. I couldn't get a
call back seven years ago, and I think five years
ago things began to shift. And now he's getting calls
constantly and we bug him the most of anyone else

(06:22):
around here.

S3 (06:23):
That's fascinating.

S4 (06:25):
So he has this podcast, I and spirituality and the
most recent title, I and I can't wait to ask
him about it. Can I kill sin?

S2 (06:34):
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. All right, buckle up.
You better get yourself a swig of water or coffee.

S3 (06:42):
Maybe two.

S2 (06:43):
Maybe two, maybe two. Drew Dickens coming up straight ahead.

S1 (06:46):
He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew, its
curling crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (06:56):
Its curling crew. We are kicking it off this morning. Hot! Oh,
I love this guy. Drew Dickens. Amazing. What a brilliant dude.
Got a PhD in I before I was popular. Boy,
you know what? I believe God got him out on
the front edge of this thing for, uh, for a
big reason, and not least of which is helping saints understand.

(07:17):
Get stay ahead of the curve. It's changing every day.
That's not an overstatement. I is just galloping forward. And
we've got him with this right now. Drew Dickens. All right,
before we jump into this, this this query you made
of I. It's almost crazy. I don't even think an
average pastor would want to be asked this question, drew.

S5 (07:39):
It was wild and so motivated by your book. I
was listening to the intro and the words that you use,
you know, kill, conquer, defeat. Just the idea of, as
you say, extreme measures, right to kill what is killing us.
But so often in in that spirit, how we approach
our sin is more like a oops, you got that right.

(08:02):
I hope I don't do that again. And I said, man,
what can I do in my life to, to, to
to be that assertive, to to call in the spirit
to do that. And I said, man, if, if someone
were to ask me hard questions. And so that's how
I came up with this prompt, is ask me 12
questions to, to help me face these sins in my life.

(08:22):
And where do I go from there?

S2 (08:24):
It's just crazy. Okay. Drew Dickens, let's get his bio here. Ali.
Because this is crazy.

S4 (08:28):
This is fantastic. Drew Dickens Doctor Dickens is a visionary leader,
AI expert, scholar. He has significantly contributed to the intersection
of technology, spirituality, and faith based engagement.

S2 (08:41):
Yeah. Okay, so let's jump in. This query, I don't
even want to read the whole thing. That'd take half
the show this morning, but you did an extensive query
that really you. You were very your thoroughness. Is that
what made the whatever response you got? Is this what
makes the good stuff happen in I being this thorough

(09:01):
with your queries?

S5 (09:03):
You know, in hindsight, I could have just said act
like Carl.

S2 (09:07):
I know.

S5 (09:09):
Right? Pretend you're Carl. Um, but yeah, it really is. Um,
so much of of AI is how we engage with it.
It's called prompting. Um, and so the prompt that I wrote, uh,
and it's on the podcast actually got the entire thing.
You can copy and paste it on your own into
your own, uh, whatever, uh, model that you're using. Uh, and, um,

(09:33):
AI chatbot that you're using and paste that into it.
But yeah, a lot of time, uh, tweaking the wording, uh,
getting it to, uh, to respond in a way that
I thought was going to be beneficial and really that
I thought the spirit was going to lead through. And
so a lot of work on that. But you can
you can copy it right out of the podcast and

(09:53):
my Patreon channel and paste it into your own. Uh,
but prompting is so important when you're engaging with AI.

S4 (10:00):
So I'm curious, what did you discover? Like, was this something?
Did you get back a a written response? Did you
do sort of. I know you've done an AI interview
before with Maya. I listened to that episode. What did
you get back when you put in this query?

S5 (10:17):
And thank you, by the way, still, after, uh, talking
to you all about Maya that morning, it's still my
most listened to episode, so thank you for that. Everybody
loves listening to me talk to my, uh. Um, but, uh, yes, uh, it, uh,
as I was working on it, uh, I actually sent
a version of the prompt to my wife, and she was, uh,

(10:38):
she was engaged with it. It asked it asked her
12 questions, and and she ended with, oh, my gosh,
can I print this out? Uh, so. yes, it's designed
to kind of be, uh, create a, a document or, uh, some,
some writing that that you could, uh, keep with you. Um,
in fact, one of the things that it kept asking
me was, do you want me to come up with,

(10:59):
like one, a one sentence prayer for you to start
the morning? Oh, um, and it offered a one sentence
prayer to end the evening. Um, almost a collect. And, uh,
so it it really gives you several different ways of,
of holding on to, uh, how to mortify, how to kill, uh,

(11:19):
your sin.

S2 (11:20):
Okay. This this brings up so many questions for me.
Let's bottom line it and then we'll back up from there.
Do you feel like you've gotten good content from I.
That is biblically grounded? And how scary is that?

S5 (11:39):
Um, uh, great question. Do you always find great questions. Um,
so is is it is it biblically sound? Which is why, uh,
in your introduction, you read a bit of it, which
is why I really emphasized the importance of, uh, being
grounded in Western, uh, Protestant evangelical theology. Um, and you

(12:03):
know that from the speaking that you're doing at this
conference and you reference to in Romans six, Romans 12. Um,
and so that's why I asked upfront for it to come,
come back to me with content that has been filtered
with that expectation. Uh, so, um, incredibly important. And thank
you for acknowledging that. Now, is it frightening? Uh, yes. Yes. But, um,

(12:29):
it is exciting, uh, as any new technology is, and
it continues to evolve and grow and we learn more
about it every day. Um, but, uh, it it is
it can get out from under you pretty fast. And
so I think I think we need to have respect for, uh,
what it's, uh, what what it's giving us right now
and how we're interacting with it, um, and, uh, and

(12:52):
start working with it a little bit, uh, it becomes
less so. But yes, it should be something that we
respect and get a little fearful of.

S4 (13:00):
Doctor Drew Dickens, I expert our guest right now. Coming up,
let's dig a little deeper. They're going to probably be
widely varying, uh, perspectives on whether this is a good
thing or whether this is something you might be thinking
right now. Christians need to stay far away from this.
This sounds kind of spooky. Let's go there. Coming up.

S1 (13:23):
Romans eight brought her to Jesus while broadcasting traffic overnight.
Super die is in the crew. It's colonel and crew
on Moody Radio.

S4 (13:32):
Can I help you kill sin? We're wrestling with that
question with our special guest expert, doctor Drew Dickens. I'm
sure you've found that people's perspective on even asking this
kind of question probably there's probably a pretty wide gap,
and it's probably not much in the middle. Uh, am
I correct in my guess on that?

S2 (13:53):
That's pretty polarizing.

S5 (13:55):
Yeah, it's very polarizing. Yes. Not a lot of people
sitting on the fence on this. So it's either demonic
or it's the you know, it's going to usher in
the Second Coming. Uh, so yeah, it's, uh, it's very polarizing.

S4 (14:07):
What's a healthy way for the Christ follower to, to
even look at this kind of technology?

S5 (14:15):
The word I always keep coming back to is discerning. Uh,
you said you mentioned evil before we went to break.
You know, uh, phones aren't inherently evil. The internet is
not inherently evil. But there is evil there, right? So
we have to be discerning when we're engaging with these devices. Uh,
I is not inherently evil, but we need to be

(14:37):
discerning as we as we, uh, spend time with it. And.
And what? What is it doing to us? Uh, how
are we engaging with it? Um, Carl, I know you're
a big fan of grok. Uh, that AI model.

S2 (14:50):
Yeah, I'm getting a little sore on it here lately,
to be honest with you. In fact, I was going
to ask you on air. What should I use? Because
grok is. Grok is powerful, but it's getting a little, uh,
how do I say it from a layman's perspective? It's
getting a little far wide ranging on me right now.

S5 (15:09):
Yeah. It, uh, it's it's probably of all the different
chat bots and language models, it's the one with the lowest, uh, guardrails.
So it can, it can it can get pretty crazy,
for sure. But they just came out, since you and
I talked last with grok for correct ChatGPT, which is
the largest one. Uh, they're about to release, I think,
in the next couple of weeks, GPT five. So these

(15:32):
things are always evolving. And so we have to continue
to be, uh, discerning. Um, but as far as you
asked earlier about, you know, should should Christians stay away
from it? I think that ship has sailed. It is
it is ubiquitous. It it is embedded in everything, uh,
that we're doing, uh, digitally from from how we watch

(15:53):
movies on Netflix to how we engage with Google. Um,
AI is embedded in so much of what we're already doing.
It's not a matter of staying away from it. I
think it's just important that we're always discerning when we're
engaging with it.

S2 (16:08):
Yeah. For those just tuning in, Doctor Drew Dickens is
our guest right now. He is an AI expert. I
love to I love to rehearse. What happened with you
seven years ago when you finished up your doctoral dissertation,
you couldn't get a phone call on AI. And now
the phone doesn't stop ringing. And that's how quickly it's evolved.
That's just amazing. He queried. That's not the right word.

(16:29):
Prompt is the right word. He entered some prompts for
AI that begin with these words take on the role
of my elite spiritual coach, rooted in evangelical Western Protestant
theology and trained in spiritual direction, psychology and behavioral science.
I'm seeking clarity around the theme of killing sin or

(16:50):
sin mortification, which mortification means the humiliation of sin. What
needs to begin, what needs to end, and what needs
to be surrendered or strengthened? Did you get good content back?

S5 (17:06):
Uh, humbling. Uh, content? It the first time I, uh,
answered these questions because I asked it to give me
a series of 12 questions, um, one building on the other. And, um,
and as it starts to ask me about my own
journey of, of of killing sin in my life and mortification,
the questions are, uh, hard, hard to read, um, because

(17:31):
it gets to the, to the core of it, uh, very,
very quickly. And one building on the other. It's like, okay,
thank you for sharing that, drew. I know that was difficult. Um,
let's expand on this. So everyone's journey is going to
be different. Um, but I just love the output, though,
of offering me, you know, a step by step plan.
So here's a prayer in the morning. Um, one of

(17:52):
the questions that asked me is, you know, who's the
person closest to me spiritually? And it gets very specific about,
you know, what? Within the next 24 hours, call him,
meet him for coffee and say this. So, I mean,
it gets very granular. Um, but then offering me, you know,
offering me, uh, you know, prayers, uh, to, to go
to sleep by and to wake up to all about,

(18:15):
you know, killing sin. And so it was it was
hard to read. Hard to read, um, but, uh, incredibly moving.

S4 (18:23):
Drew, I'd love to hear one example of of a
question that you were asked. You mentioned, uh, call a
friend to talk to a friend in the next 24 hours,
but what was your favorite? Or maybe not in the
sense of it was enjoyable, but what was the most
insightful question that you were asked by I.

S5 (18:40):
I don't have to tell you my answer to it,
do I?

S4 (18:42):
Nope. Just the question.

S5 (18:45):
Uh, when do you most often slip into this? The
first question was about my behavior. Uh, so the the
follow up question I remember was, when do you most
often slip into this behavior? What time of day, mood
or situation tends to precede it? And I was like, wow, okay.

(19:05):
So let me let me think about that. Um, what
does that false persona. Because that's one of the things I,
I think we all I, I struggle with is putting
a mask on to so many different people. But what
is that false persona give you that you think you're that,
that your real self can't do? And just really deep

(19:26):
questions one one building on the other. And uh, yeah,
it was I was on the floor when it was,
it was done.

S2 (19:33):
So here's what. Here's what strikes me. It seems that
I has the courage to go where sometimes we won't
go with our own friends.

S5 (19:42):
Yeah. Yes, yes. Amen. What do we.

S2 (19:45):
Do? What do we do with that? I mean, because
the downside. Here's my initial thoughts. It has courage to
to ask questions or interact with us in ways that
we normally wouldn't with others. And yet it's not a person.
So you're giving up this in the flesh relationship, seeing

(20:05):
a person. How do you reconcile those two things?

S5 (20:09):
Well, we were designed to be in community. That's what
the Trinity represents to us. We have a seat at
the table with the father, son and Holy Spirit. So
we're designed to engage. We're designed to do this. I mean,
you're you're calling in from from up from upstate Michigan, uh,
in Chicago, L.A., and I'm in Phoenix right now. We're

(20:30):
designed to to do it this way, to engage with
each other. And so we can't let go of that.
But in Scripture, God has used what I mean. God's
used a donkey. He's used writing on a wall. He's
used the stones will cry out, uh, casting of lots
and fleeces. So God will engage with inanimate objects, if

(20:52):
you will, um, to communicate with us. And so that
can be a tool that we use. But I always
tell people, um, like, like these 12 questions and the answers,
what I should be doing and I have done with
this is now take that into community. So I want
to share it with my friend, um, and have share
it with my wife. Um, I don't want to do

(21:13):
this in isolation. And so that that I think is
the most important step in this is as we're engaging, um,
bring it back into community, into a community of believers
so we can walk through, uh, this, this response together.

S4 (21:28):
Love it. Doctor drew Dickens. He is the host of
the Eye and Spirituality podcast. If you want more information,
I know you're going to want to listen to this.
You're going to want to try to get this prompt
for yourself to engage in this way. Text drew to
800 555 7898. Text drew to [phone].

S2 (21:51):
Uh, one quick question before we let you go, drew. Uh,
what is your opinion on this? The best age currently
for bringing back content that is most trustworthy?

S5 (22:05):
Mhm. Well, I don't um I'm not representing any, any
one company so I have no I have no relationship there.

S2 (22:13):
No dog in the.

S5 (22:14):
Hunt. I would, I would, I would say the, the, the,
the largest most stable platform right now. Definitely the largest
model uh, is uh, OpenAI, which is their ChatGPT. Um,
we're most familiar with and somewhat ubiquitous. When people talk
about I, I would I would say ChatGPT, they're about
to come out in the next couple of weeks with

(22:35):
their fifth version, ChatGPT five, which is going to be
what I've already read about it, just mind bending on
its capabilities. Um, there are different models that have different benefits, uh,
depending upon how you're using it, but I would say overall,
uh ChatGPT five would be the largest and most stable.

S2 (22:57):
Excellent. Good content today, drew. My goodness. We could talk
with you here for a couple hours. Uh, but I
want you to get this link right now. Boom. Crew again.
Text the word drew to 800 555, 7898. This is intriguing,
and it'll get you on the front edge. Let's get
you ahead of the curve. With regard to what's developing
with AI, drew is a just a responsible Godward man,

(23:20):
and he's going to really assist you in this, and
you're going to have a heads up text drew to
800 555 55. 78. 98. Drew. Dickens. Thank you, my man,
for being with us today. Wonderful content.

S1 (23:34):
A basketball mom who's mastered the dad joke. Ali is
in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (23:43):
Okay. We did not forget. Oh, no. Contraire, Pierre. We
got it loaded and ready to rumble.

S1 (23:49):
Making herself laugh no matter who joins her. It's time
for Ali thinks it's funny.

S4 (23:57):
Well, I've got a new driver in the house. Oh, yes.
And one of the first things you need to learn
as a new driver is that you stop at Red
and you go on green, right? I mean, that's kind
of driving 101, right? Exactly. Yeah. Well, under what circumstances
do you go at Red and stop at green? This

(24:21):
is part joke, part riddle. When do.

S2 (24:24):
We.

S4 (24:25):
Go at red and stop at green.

S2 (24:27):
I went on red when I was nearly attacked at
a stoplight in downtown Chicago.

S4 (24:32):
Okay, that's not where I was going. Okay.

S2 (24:35):
Sorry about.

S4 (24:35):
That. I'm no help.

S6 (24:37):
No, I have no idea.

S4 (24:38):
You go at Red and you stop at green when
you're eating a watermelon.

S2 (24:44):
That's really good.

S4 (24:46):
I actually find that to be, like, a pretty clever riddle.

S2 (24:49):
That's so good.

S4 (24:51):
You definitely want to stop at the green. Have you ever.

S2 (24:53):
So good. I can't even laugh.

S4 (24:55):
Have you ever seen someone who eats the watermelon? Like,
all the way down to, like.

S2 (24:59):
Oh, I.

S4 (24:59):
Have, yes. Where they're like. Like they're almost at the green.
It's like. No, no, no. Stop it! Green. Stop at green.
Next stop.

S2 (25:07):
I think the green I think, I think I think
that's colon cleanse time there because that stuff is bitter.

S4 (25:12):
I don't know. That's stick to the red. How did
the pasta get locked out of his house? How did
the pasta get locked out of his house? I don't know.

S7 (25:31):
I'm sorry. I'm getting. I'm getting a stomachache.

S4 (25:35):
Oh, I know it's corny. You're groaning. You're cringing. They're terrible.
But if you want them text jokes to 800 555, 78, 98.
Text jokes to 800 555 7898.

S2 (25:51):
Oh, goodness sakes. Ali, you're too much.

S4 (25:54):
I know.

S7 (25:55):
I know.

S2 (25:56):
Okay. Grab em. You two can entertain or terrorize your friends, family, neighbors,
and coworkers today. And we've got a bunch of folks
up here that listen to Carl and crew, and. Oh,
my goodness, do they love this segment? Ali? Do they
love it.

S4 (26:12):
Like I it tends to be slightly polarizing. You're going
to love it or you're going to hate it.

S2 (26:18):
I think people, generally speaking, love it takes jokes to
800 555 7898.

S1 (26:26):
He was running from God. But God's love brought him home.
Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
Moody Radio.

S2 (26:35):
Oh, you know, Satan can pull one over our eyes.
By the way, Carl and crew. Good to have you
with us this morning. Helping you take that next step
with Jesus. If Satan can pull one over our eyes,
it's to misrepresent the character of God and even how
God works, right? I mean, if he can get us
to think that way, he's won the day. And there's

(26:55):
a great deception out there, and it's a crazy one.
In fact, you if you would have told me this, uh,
when I was a young follower of Jesus, I said, nah,
that can't be true of God. And we know that
God is love, and we love to focus on that, right?
God is love. Aren't we glad for the love of
God that sent His Son to earth to die for us?
He so loved us that he sent His Son and

(27:17):
the love of God as seen in Jesus Christ. Jesus
himself said, if you want to see the father, watch
what I'm doing, because this is the heart of the father,
which is another huge encouragement. But if you think about
God's response to sin, I guess we would see this
if we looked at it through the eyes of what's

(27:38):
happened to us. Somebody sinned against us, really hurt us,
really betrayed us, really got a we got a knife
hanging out of our back, some incident happened, some grave injustice.
And I think we would be pleased to find out
that God hates that. But what about the sin that
we battle in our own life? And what are we

(27:58):
to do with it? What if I told you? See it,
own it, hate it. Now the tendency is to go
anywhere from coddle it, to rationalize it, to minimize it,
to be somewhat grieved over it, pained over it. But
do we often hate it? What would you say, Ali?

S4 (28:19):
No, I mean Andrew Drew Dickens, who we just had
on AI and spirituality. He mentioned that a lot of
times our approach is oops, yep, don't want are probably
probably don't want to do that again. And to kind
of have a pretty light hearted approach, even if we're
grieved over it, even if we feel bad about the

(28:39):
things that we do, that we know that we should not,
that miss the mark. It's kind of.

S7 (28:44):
Yeah.

S2 (28:45):
Yeah, you're right, Ali. And here's here's where twisted Grace
comes into play. Grace becomes this safety net for sin.
It's kind of like the net that we put underneath
the trapeze artists, right? And it's like they slip. They fell. Oh, man,
I've got that. Grace was never intended to be the
safety net for our stupid people tricks. It just wasn't.

(29:08):
It was always. Grace is not the permission to live
as you like. With a rebound, to go do it again.
It's the privilege to live as we never could before. Yeah,
that's my dad's famous. Probably the most amazing quote he
ever gave me on the grace of God. So the
question is, what's the proper emotion for sin? And could
it be you just haven't had the right emotion dealing

(29:33):
with something in your life. You've had a what? Ali
just repeated that. Drew said you've had a oops mentality
rather than a I hate this thing in me mentality.
Not you don't hate yourself, but hate the sin. I'll
prove it to you biblically. Hang on.

S1 (29:51):
Your shot of hope to help you through the day.
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (29:57):
Does God have feeling and emotions, Ali?

S4 (30:00):
Yes.

S2 (30:01):
Big time.

S4 (30:02):
And not just because there's that one verse, the shortest
verse in the Bible. Jesus wept. That's what you were thinking, right?

S2 (30:08):
Well, that's the. That's a good one. I mean, his
weeping over hurting people and people that are hurting themselves.
It's that's a beautiful thing. Uh, let me break it
down for you. Here. Talk about emotion and the proper emotion.
If you ask yourself the question, does God hate sin?
The answer is clearly yes. We go to Proverbs six,

(30:30):
listen to these verses. I'm going to read them to you.
There are six things that the Lord hates seven that
are an abomination to him haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood. A heart that devises
wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who

(30:53):
sows discord among brothers. Now that can, we can get
lost almost in Old English, if you will. It's kind
of like poetry. So let me break these down. I
put them in bullets here for you to make it
really clear. And I want you to listen to these
with some good common sense introspection. This is what he hates.
Looking down on others as less than myself. Lying or

(31:15):
shading the truth when it benefits me. Tearing people down
in hopes of lifting myself up. Planning to take justice
into my own hands. Running to godless things. To satisfy
the worst in me. Spreading lies about others. To protect
my image. Stirring vision to get people on my side. Oh,

(31:42):
God hates those things. So no one can avoid those
seven things. We're going to have touch points there in
our life. There's no way to be sinlessly perfect, but
the repetitive nature of sin, shame, repent, repeat, and stuck
in a ditch is not God's will for our life.

(32:02):
Now the question is what emotion do we have to
have towards sin? It's one thing to say God hates it,
but we find not only in Romans 813 for if
you live according to the flesh, you're going to die.
But if by the power of the spirit you put
to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
We find this later on in Romans. Romans 12. This
is what Paul says let love be genuine. He's talking

(32:22):
about relations with others. And he says, abhor what is evil.
Hold fast to what is good. Now, in my preparation
for a writing I did on this, I did a
deep dive to make sure I was being accurate. There
is no theologian that does not agree with this statement.
If you do not hate what is evil in your life,
you cannot cling to what is good. Whoa, that's a

(32:44):
powerful premise, isn't it?

S4 (32:45):
It is.

S2 (32:46):
We have to have the proper emotion around sin in
our life. Now, this is where I want you to
be careful. Don't hate yourself, but hate the sin that
has got its clutches on you. I don't care what
it is. I don't care if it's porn, food, alcohol,
horrible time management. The you. You got it in the

(33:10):
spirit of God's filling in the blanks, having the proper emotion,
not a oops mentality or a oh God's grace. Don't
twist the grace, get some hatred and then we can
take those next steps. Having that proper emotion is the
perfect starting place.

S4 (33:26):
You know I love this. And if you want more
on this topic, I want to mention this book, Killing Sin.
Carl has written an entire book on it that came
out this year. Just text the word conquer and I'd
be happy to send you the details there. Text conquer
to 800 555 7898. If you want to do a
deeper dive on this, just text conquer to 855 five 7898.

(33:48):
Conquer to 800 555 7898.

S1 (33:53):
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (33:57):
Does God have feeling and emotions? Ali?

S4 (33:59):
Yes.

S2 (34:00):
Big time.

S4 (34:01):
And not just because there's that one verse, the shortest
verse in the Bible. Jesus wept. That's what you were thinking, right?

S2 (34:07):
Well, that's the that's a good one. I mean, his
weeping over hurting people and people that are hurting themselves. It's.
That's a beautiful thing. Uh, let me break it down
for you here. Talk about emotion and the proper emotion.
If you ask yourself the question, does God hate sin?
The answer is clearly yes. We go to Proverbs six,

(34:30):
listen to these verses. I'm going to read them to you.
There are six things that the Lord hates seven that
are an abomination to him haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood. A heart that devises
wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who

(34:53):
sows discord among brothers. Now that can, we can get
lost almost in Old English, if you will. It's kind
of like poetry. So let me break these down. I
put them in bullets here for you to make it
really clear. And I want you to listen to these
with some good common sense introspection. This is what he hates.
Looking down on others as less than myself. Lying or

(35:14):
shading the truth when it benefits me. Tearing people down
in hopes of lifting myself up. Planning to take justice
into my own hands. Running to godless things. To satisfy
the worst in me. Spreading lies about others. To protect
my image. Stirring vision to get people on my side. Oh,

(35:41):
God hates those things. So no one can avoid those
seven things. We're going to have touch points there in
our life. There's no way to be sinlessly perfect. But
the repetitive nature of sin, shame, repent, repeat, and stuck
in a ditch is not God's will for our life.
Now the question is what emotion do we have to

(36:03):
have toward sin? It's one thing to say God hates it,
but we find not only in Romans 813 for if
you live according to the flesh, you are going to die.
But if by the power of the spirit you put
to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
We find this later on in Romans, Romans 12. This
is what Paul says let love be genuine. He's talking
about relations with others, and he says, abhor what is evil.

(36:26):
Hold fast to what is good. Now, in my preparation
for a writing I did on this, I did a
deep dive to make sure I was being accurate. There
is no theologian that does not agree with this statement.
If you do not hate what is evil in your life,
you cannot cling to what is good. Whoa, that's powerful premise,
isn't it?

S4 (36:45):
It is.

S2 (36:45):
We have to have the proper emotion around sin in
our life. Now, this is where I want you to
be careful. Don't hate yourself, but hate the sin that
has got its clutches on you. I don't care what
it is. I don't care if it's porn, food, alcohol,
horrible time management. The You. You got it. In the

(37:09):
spirit of God's filling in the blanks, having the proper emotion,
not a oops mentality or a oh, God's grace. Don't
twist the grace. Get some hatred and then we can
take those next steps. Having that proper emotion is the
perfect starting place.

S4 (37:25):
You know I love this. And if you want more
on this topic, I want to mention this book. Uh,
Killing Sin has written an entire book on it that
came out this year. Just text the word conquer and
I'd be happy to send you the details there. Text
conquer to 800 555 7898. If you want to do
a deeper dive on this, just text conquer to 800
555 7898. Conquer to 800 555 7898.

S1 (37:52):
You're listening to Curl and Crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (37:56):
It is the best news ever. This is Carl and crew,
and I'm broadcasting from Maranatha. It's a great camp in Michigan,
and if you want a place to land with your family. Boy,
have I found it. This is epic. This is a
phenomenal camp. I'm speaking here on evening sessions to men, women,
and probably high schoolers. I would guess a lot of

(38:17):
college kids. And they come here for some time, some years,
like ten, 20 years in a row.

S4 (38:22):
Oh, that's so fun. Have you gotten out to do
any camp things during the day? Like I'm looking at
the website. It looks like they've got pool and beach
and zipline and ropes course. Have you done anything fun?

S2 (38:34):
No, but I hope to. I've been going, man. Between
prepping for the show and.

S7 (38:39):
Prepping for evening sessions, I've.

S2 (38:41):
Had a full day.

S7 (38:42):
But.

S2 (38:42):
It's beautiful. I've taken some walks down to the beach though,
because I'm trying to get in my steps. You know,
you got to get those steps in.

S7 (38:48):
Yeah.

S2 (38:49):
And how you'd be proud of me. I've been staying hydrated.
My wife gave me.

S7 (38:52):
Strict, strict instructions. Stay hydrated, young man.

S4 (38:55):
I mean, you're speaking at night and then still getting
up early for morning radio, so hydration is important. Getting
good rest is important.

S2 (39:04):
It is, but it's its great joy. Boom! I got
to tell you, we love you so much. We are
so grateful for the opportunity to come to you in
the mornings and help you take your next step with Jesus,
and today I'm actually taking content. We're using it evenings
and mornings here on the show, and we're talking about
the need to put to death the deeds of the
flesh comes right out of Romans eight, but it's not

(39:26):
just in Romans 813. Jesus said it if your eye
causes you to sin, gouge it out. If your hand
causes you to sin, cut it off. Now it's hyperbole. Obviously,
if you got an issue with lust of the eyes,
you don't gouge one out. It's hyperbole, but it's hyperbole
for a reason. Jesus gives us clear instructions. Take extreme

(39:50):
measures to knock out with a knock out. Punch those
things that are killing you. And if we take that seriously,
I think we're going to get victory. And I know
we're going to get victory in our lives like we
haven't imagined. Quick question, Ali. Why have we had an
oops approach to sin rather than a. Now I want
to put this to death by the power of the

(40:11):
Holy Spirit.

S4 (40:12):
A couple of reasons, I think. First is what we've
already touched upon is the, um, kind of the misuse
of grace, the which is it is absolutely true that
God offers us forgiveness, that the grace of God it
meets us when we fail. But I think we've used
that as an opportunity to not get back up into victory,

(40:32):
but to kind of keep falling back into the same pattern.
And then I, I think the second thing is that
we don't look to Scripture. Sometimes we look to common
experience in terms of what's normal. So it seems kind
of normal. People struggle with things. You know, we've all
kind of got our hang ups and, you know, your
thing is your thing. And then I got my thing
and it seems so normal to persistently struggle with sin

(40:56):
that I don't think we're as highly motivated because we're
not necessarily looking to Scripture for our cues when it
comes to that boom.

S2 (41:03):
This comparison thing is huge. And the notion that, well,
everybody's got something.

S4 (41:08):
Everybody's got something, and mine's not that bad in the,
you know, in the whole scheme of things you could
struggle with.

S2 (41:14):
And then we look at Romans seven and we look
at Paul and it's a phenomenal passage. He says, foolish man,
that I am that which I want to do. I
don't do that which I do, I don't want to do.
Who will rescue me from this body of sin and death?
And we almost see that as a proof text for okay,
Paul battled this, do I? I'm okay. No, you got

(41:34):
to read on verse 25 in Romans seven is thanks
be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord, who gives
me victory over this stuff. Yeah. So summer months can
be intense for missing the mark. That's the real definition
of sin. It's the gap between hitting the bullseye and

(41:55):
the miss of. It was an archery term, spear chucking term.
And it was where that spear or that arrow hit
on that target, that distance between perfection and miss, where
you hit, that's the sin. That's the distance between those two.
And when it comes to summer months, it can it

(42:17):
can be costly practically, financially. And the question is, when
we're heading into the dog days of summer, what sins
do we need to be aware of when it comes
to finances, and what can we do about them? Boy,
have we got one of our faves coming up here, Ali.

S4 (42:33):
You don't even have to say it. We know it's
Rob West. He has some wisdom to kill those three
financial practices that are killing us.

S2 (42:44):
Hang on. That's coming up.

S1 (42:45):
She's a choreographer extraordinaire, and everything is Greek to her.
Super die is in the crew. It's Carl and crew
on Moody Radio.

S2 (42:56):
When it comes to financial stewardship. Killing sin needs to
be front and center. At first blush, what do you say?

S4 (43:05):
You know, I don't think most people would think of
that as front and center. I mean, the areas where
we miss the mark, I don't think most people would
think finances would be up front because other than like
stealing money, where where would the common person say that
you could sin with your money?

S2 (43:25):
Yeah, at first blush, I think you'd go. Huh?

S4 (43:28):
Like.

S2 (43:29):
You look a little bit deeper.

S4 (43:30):
Yeah. I'm not stealing.

S2 (43:33):
Yeah, yeah. Rob West, what do you say, my man,
when it comes to financial stewardship, are there some sins
that we can put to death, my man?

S8 (43:41):
Absolutely, Carl. And I think you and Ali hit it
on the head there just a second ago. Because, you know,
when we talk about financial stewardship, it's tempting to keep
the conversation purely practical. You know, we're talking budgets and
investments and giving percentages. But faithful stewardship is first and
foremost a spiritual matter. You know, poor financial choices aren't

(44:02):
or often aren't the result of poor math. They're result
of misplaced affections. And I think that's why Jesus spoke
so frequently about money. He knew how easily it could
become a rival to God in our hearts. And as
you know, Carl and Allie, sin often shows up subtly
in our financial lives, but its impact can be devastating.

(44:25):
And so, yeah, we're going to tackle three of the
most common, and I would say most dangerous sins in
stewardship and talk about how the gospel empowers us to
kill them.

S4 (44:33):
All right. You set it up. Give us the first one.

S8 (44:36):
Well, the first one is greed. And it's the lie
that more will satisfy, you know, greed whispers that will
finally be content if we just earn a little bit
more or save a little bit more, or own a
little bit more. But the truth is, greed never satisfies.
It only fuels comparison and discontentment and overspending. I think
that's why Jesus said, watch out. Be on your guard

(44:58):
against all kinds of greed. Life does not consist in
the abundance of possessions. You know, the late Tim Keller
said in his book Counterfeit Gods. He said, I've had
every sin confessed in my office, save one. And it's
the sin of greed. Because I think what happens is
we often try to redeem greed in the name of

(45:19):
the American dream, and it can be devastating.

S4 (45:22):
When we try to.

S2 (45:23):
Redeem.

S4 (45:24):
Greed.

S2 (45:26):
Yeah, that's that's powerhouse. Um, greed. Greed can hide. That's profound.
And I didn't know Keller had said that, but that
is very insightful, and I think it's true. How does
greed show up on a ledger?

S8 (45:42):
Yeah, well, that's a challenge. And I think kind of
building on that idea that Keller talks about is what
I mean by the ability or the attempt to redeem
greed is, you know, we live in the most prosperous
nation in the history of the world. And we have
incredible opportunities, you know, to achieve, quote unquote, the American
dream dream. The problem is we you know, we always

(46:04):
compare ourselves to everybody else who's in kind of our
status of financial condition. And there's always going to be
somebody you will find that has just a little bit more.
And so you can justify, well, I'm okay because I
don't have as much as he does or she does,
and it can begin to creep in and I think
rival our hearts for devotion to God. We start to

(46:26):
worship the creation over the creator.

S2 (46:29):
Yeah, Rob, here's an interesting thing. I don't think most
people would say I am by the act of my will, greedy,
but it almost gets. It's part of the hoop and
wharf of the culture that we live in. And there's
a subconscious greed. How do you bring this to the surface?
How do you know if you've got it?

S8 (46:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think you've got to search your hearts.
It's got to start on your knees before the Lord
and say, Lord, you know I don't want to define
my lifestyle by those around me. I want to do
it with you in prayer. How would you have me
to live? How much is enough for me? You're not
going to find that in Scripture. I mean, it would
be really easy if the Lord just said, you know,

(47:11):
you're to live on 78.2% of your income. He doesn't.
But I think that's a good thing, because now all
of a sudden we're wrestling through that with him. And
here's how we fight the greed that can creep in.
It's with gratitude and generosity. You know, when we intentionally give,
we declare that money doesn't rule us. God does. And

(47:32):
so I think we've got to start, you know, taking
account of the things we're grateful for, the promises of God.
We have more than enough before the first dollar because
we have Jesus and we've got to start there.

S4 (47:45):
Rob West, our guest right now, host of Faith and
Finance Live. Okay. You've given us the first key area
we need to kill to faithfully steward our finances. Give
us number two.

S8 (47:56):
Number two is fear. It's trusting in money instead of God.
You know, Ali and Karl, fear often wears the mask
of wisdom. And here's what I mean by that. It
shows up as over planning, obsessing about the future, clinging
tightly to money for security. But here's what Jesus said
Matthew 624. You know it. You cannot serve both God

(48:17):
and money. Fear tempts us to place our trust in numbers,
not in the God who promises to provide. And it
paralyzes us from giving. It keeps us up at night
because we rehearse over and over in our minds. What if?
And here's what Larry Burkett said about what if. He
said the problem with what if is it leads right
down the road to fear. Fear is a spiritual trap

(48:40):
because we think about the things that we don't know
whether or not they're going to happen. And that just
is a is a toxic cycle for us in our lives.

S2 (48:48):
Rob, how do we know the difference between good financial
planning and fear based planning. How do you discern that?

S8 (48:55):
Well, I think what happens is, you know, it's faith.
You build a financial plan, but you hold it loosely.
You pray over your budget. You invite God into every decision.
You replace anxious spreadsheets with faithful stewardship, and faith breaks
fear's grip, especially in uncertain times. And again, I would

(49:15):
go back to that act of giving. You know, Ron Blue,
the author and teacher, one of my mentors, he said
for decades, giving breaks the grip of money over our
lives because it's that most tangible demonstration that, God, it's yours.
And so I can hold it loosely. You see, if
I thought it was all up to me, I'd have
to clench it tightly. But as soon as I open

(49:36):
my grip and give it away, I'm saying, you know,
with my dollars, God, I trust you that you're going
to put more in.

S4 (49:43):
Rob West, our guest right now, you know, I've often wondered,
you know, when we read scripture that talks about how
difficult it is for a rich man to enter into
the kingdom of heaven. I've often wondered if too many
people exclude themselves from being the rich person that's being
been warned. I think about this often because I and.

(50:03):
But then all it takes is to step outside of
the US to a lot of other places in the world.
Do you agree that some that too many people exclude
themselves from that rich being applied because they feel far
from rich?

S8 (50:16):
100%, Ali. And I think it again, goes back to
this idea, is we don't compare ourselves to people in
another part of the world. We don't even compare ourselves
necessarily to people in another part of town. We compare
ourselves to the people who live right in that same
income bracket we do. And I guarantee you, you'll always
find somebody who has a little bit more, a little

(50:37):
bigger house, a little nicer car, and all of a
sudden we can make ourselves feel really good about it.
And we've got to, I think, take a step back.
You remember the rich fool. He used the words I
and my in that short passage about nine times because
he was taking credit for everything, as opposed to realizing
everything I have is a gracious gift from God, and

(50:57):
it belongs to him. And my goal is faithful stewardship.

S4 (51:01):
Okay, we've got greed. We've got fear. Give us number three,
Rob West.

S8 (51:04):
Well, number three is a killer. And it's pride. And
it's believing that it's all up to me. You see,
pride tells us we don't need help, that we can
manage our finances without wise counsel, without God's guidance. But
Scripture is clear. God opposes the proud. He gives grace
to the humble. We read that in James four. Pride
isolates us, it resists accountability, and it refuses to acknowledge

(51:27):
that all we have belongs to God. And so I
think to kill pride, we have to embrace humility. We've
got to seek counsel. We've got to invite accountability. We've
got to recognize that every financial decision is an opportunity
to be found faithful in managing what God has entrusted
to me after we give our lives to Jesus. It's
all about stewardship, stewardship of our time and our relationships

(51:50):
and God's Word. And yes, God's money. And humility is
the gateway to wisdom and money and in life.

S2 (51:57):
Yeah, Rob, if we can put these three sins to
death greed, fear, pride. And I believe that they can be.
Or else Jesus wouldn't have told us to, nor would
have Paul hearkened to it in Romans 813. If we
put them to death. You know, I feel like a
lot of health, wealth, prosperity guys have ripped off some

(52:18):
of these spiritual principles that we need to reclaim. But
just pour out your heart for a moment. What are
the promises of God for the person who is not
bound by greed and fear and pride, but they truly
are humble and they trust the Lord. And they they
don't want to keep up with the Joneses. They really
want to honor the Lord. Is there blessing in this?

(52:39):
And is there something that needs to be reclaimed from
late night TV guys?

S8 (52:44):
Yeah, I think there absolutely is, Carl. And I think
it has to start with an understanding that money is
a good gift from God. He gave it to us.
It's for our delight. It even says in God's word
that we're in to enjoy it. We can give it
away to be a part of God's activity and bless
a neighbor in need, or participate in God's activity in
some other part of the world. We can invest it

(53:06):
in a way that promotes human flourishing. Remember, by its
very definition, the purpose of investment is to supply capital
to businesses that are providing goods and services that are
supposed to be good and serve people. What a blessing.
You know, the problem is money gets a bad rap
and it's because of what it can do to our hearts.
You remember, God's word doesn't say that money is the

(53:27):
root of all evil. It says the love of money
is the root of all evil. But if you get
this right, you put money in its proper place. And
that is a tool to accomplish God's purposes, not an end,
but a means to an end. Well, the result is
intimacy with the father, because now we see God as
our ultimate treasure, and money is something to be used

(53:47):
to give God glory and to further his purposes. And
that's a game changer.

S4 (53:51):
So much wisdom. Rob West, Faith and Finance Live heard
weekday afternoons on Moody Radio. If you want more text
money to 800 555 7898. For more from our guest,
Rob West, text money to 800 555 7898.

S2 (54:08):
All right. We do this from time to time, and
I've got a minute here, so I'm going to do this. Rob,
what's the first thing God's doing in your life with
regard to financial stewardship? Is there a new discovery, something
really cool you've you've got has revealed to you? What
is it, my man?

S8 (54:23):
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, this afternoon we're
going to talk on the show at 4:00 eastern about
sports betting. And, you know, this is a phenomenon that
has just captivated our country. And I think it's crept
in to the local church. And I think it's another
example of how we have, you know, just pushed it
aside and said, no, this is okay. It's just entertainment

(54:44):
and it's not. And I think it's killing us. And
so we're going to tackle that today. I'm so excited.
Doctor David W Jones from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in
our financial ethics series is going to be with us.
This is a big one, Carl and Ellie, and I
think we've got to hit it head on.

S2 (54:59):
Okay? You can't leave us dangling there. What's the one
thing that you want to tell people right now? Because
you got folks? I'll tell you, as a pastor, this
has crept into the church. People do see it as
because it's legalized now, you know, so it seems if
it's legal, it must be okay. What do you say, Rob?

S8 (55:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think we've got to stay away
from it. You know, the rise in sports betting reveals
the idolatry of money in sports and perhaps a discontentment
with Christ that lurks in the hearts of many believers.
And easy access did not create the idolatry. It just
revealed the moral decay that I think has been present
all along. And so we've got to call it what

(55:38):
it is. I think, you know, very few churches even
publicly address the growing problem in this culture. And so
we've got to recognize it. And as with any sin,
we've got to address the sinful core of gambling that
is the worship of money. And they can they can
point to the broader solution to all sin, which is
the worship of Jesus.

S2 (55:58):
Now, what's interesting about gambling sites or casinos is that
they're now obligated, I think, by federal law, to put
a gambling has a hook into you call this number.
And they I think. Ali, you got an opinion on
this one, sister?

S4 (56:14):
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. We're going to dangle the
the the sin in front of you with this little
note at the end that says, if you're struggling with
the thing that we're putting right in front of you,
it's like it just feels real hollow.

S2 (56:28):
Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And the thing that gets me,
I mean, just cooking hot in, I really get angry
about this is that these guys come in and set
up casinos and they are exploiting people that, frankly, are
the very people they're claiming to help with the revenue
from it. I'm talking about state funded casinos or local

(56:50):
government casinos. And it's just unabashed exploitation of poor people.
And it's just drives me crazy. Rob anyway, we'll get
off that soapbox right now. Rob West. What an incredible guy. Oh,
give us the times. Go across from East Coast to
Pacific time. What time is your show, my man?

S8 (57:10):
Yeah, well, we're one Pacific. We're four eastern. Uh, join
us today for faith and finance live on Moody Radio.
We're going to talk sports betting today with David Jones,
and you're not going to want to miss it.

S4 (57:21):
What a tease there. That's going to have many, many
morning listeners checking out some afternoon time. Faith and finance
live 4:00 eastern time right here on Moody Radio. If
you want the resource for today, text money to 800
555 7898. Money to 800 555, 7898.

S1 (57:40):
You can take him out of Alaska, but you can't
take Alaska out of him. Carl is in the crew.
It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (57:50):
You know, we're tackling this whole issue of killing sin.
The reality is, oftentimes the presenting issue is one issue.
But you could dig a little bit deeper and look out, Katie,
bar the door. It's like, oh boy, that's the bigger
issue going on here. And I love that counseling maxim.
It's really true. Uh, forget how many years married we

(58:10):
were probably ten years we were married. My bride and
I and I came up with a crazy, to use
my dad's term, cockamamie idea. That backfired on me big time.
I decided I'm going to ask my bride this year
because I always wanted to be creative for anniversaries, and
I thought, I'm going to be really creative. I'm going
to give her a few days to really pray and

(58:31):
think about what she would like. And if she's led
by the Lord, she's a responsible girl. She loves the Lord.
She loves me She's going to come up with something
really good. So I said, babe, here's my plan for
our anniversary. I want you to spend some time in prayer.
Seek the Lord, and I want you to tell me
what the Lord would have me do for you on
our anniversary. She said, really? I said, yeah. She goes, oh,

(58:53):
that's cool. I'll really commit to that, bub. And I said, great, babe. Boy,
that was a bad move I had. Well, I'm tongue
in cheek a little bit because it turned out okay,
but she comes back to me three days later. I
came to her and I said, have you been praying
about it? She goes, yeah, I took you seriously and
I've really been praying about this. And I said, well,
what would you like for your anniversary gift? She said, bub,

(59:18):
I'd like us to get rid of the TV for
the whole next year. No TV in the home.

S4 (59:22):
Wow.

S2 (59:23):
Now, my response to her was, is there anything else
you'd like?

S4 (59:29):
What's option two?

S2 (59:30):
Yeah, what's option two? No, she's stuck with it. And guys,
I want to tell you something. The first couple of weeks, man,
I was in, like, recovery shakes. What was amazing about
this is not that my wife thought that we were, uh.
I want to put the right words in her mouth.
I don't think she would have thought we were abusing it,

(59:52):
but that we could sharpen up some of our viewing habits.
And the best way to do it is to go
cold turkey and see, you know what happens to us here.
I'll tell you what happened. I realized quickly a couple
of things. Number one, I watch way more news than
I ever thought I did. It's way easy to underestimate

(01:00:14):
what you're doing. Okay. Or overestimate. It's easy to undershoot
and overshoot, but to hit it on the noggin, not
having a TV. Another thing that I realized, boy, I
was way more hooked on ESPN and other sports networks
than I thought. Big time. And so what came out
of this was a year where I started adventuring with
my son down to a sports bar, not watching every game,

(01:00:38):
but picking off a couple and going down with him
and making that a real bonding time. That was good.
I had way more time with my bride, and quite candidly, guys,
I realized that there was time that I was spending
in front of the TV that was better redeemed for
me to love my bride as Christ loved the church
straight up. Now, I'm not going crazy on this one

(01:00:58):
saying we can't have stuff. What my. My point here
is this. Oftentimes the issue is not the issue. If
you dig a little bit deeper, look out. You can
find some things. And the question is do we find
this in Scripture? Do we find it with pride and
fear and things that manifest in our life, and gluttony

(01:01:19):
and hoarding and lust and envy and cowardice and laziness
and all those things present as an issue? But if
you scrape below the surface, you'll find out, whoa! There
is so much more there. Hang on three minutes. I'm
going to break that down for you. Because when we
dig a little deeper, we realize, wow, maybe the presenting
issue isn't the real issue.

S1 (01:01:40):
He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl
and crew on Moody Radio.

S2 (01:01:49):
It is an awesome thing when you search your heart
for the one thing that is defeating you, and then
you put your finger on it, and then when you
put your finger on it, you peel it back and go, man,
this has got a lot more layers to it. You know,
sometimes the presenting issue is not the real issue. I
want to give you one anecdotally that's really cool. I
met with a guy. Um. It's probably two years ago now.

(01:02:13):
He came to me and he was just straight up
and honest. He said, man, I got a problem with pornography.
And this is just a God fearing young man who
loves the Lord. And he was married. And I just
want you to know, a lot of men out there
think that marriage is going to fix a pornography issue.
It That's not the case. Um, Satan is looking for

(01:02:35):
every opportunity to get us tangled up in things that
are just ripping us off left and right. But he
came to me and he said, my man, I got
an issue, and it's porn. Now, that is an issue.
We would all agree, of course, but when you dig
a little bit deeper, here's what we discovered. So I
went on this journey because I'd been doing some work
on the issue of killing sin. And I'm digging a
little bit deeper. And I said to him, here's my hunch.

(01:02:58):
I said, go with me on this one. Are you
a hard worker? He says, I bust my tail. I said,
are you dipping into porn before you go to work? No,
I'm getting ready. I'm eating breakfast. I'm spending time with
my wife. I mean, we're no, not a problem. I
said at work. Are you dealing with this? The reason
I asked him this is there's some people that have
addictions with regard to this, and they do dip into

(01:03:21):
this dark side in the middle of the day. Just
to be candid with you. We're going to always shoot
it straight here. I'm a pastor. We're going to tell
you how life rolls. He said, no, I'm not dipping
in during the day, which is the the vast, the
ponderance of guys that struggle with porn. And I would
estimate women as well. That's not the time frame where
they're messing up. So I said, let's just boil it

(01:03:43):
down here, bro. What's eating your lunch? Are those later
evening hours when you have not marked that time? It's
it's kind of unclaimed time and you're tired and you're
a little bit weary and it makes cowards of us
and we find ourselves. And he said, Carl, you're nailing it.
This is when I'm getting my lunch eating. So here's,

(01:04:06):
here's what I'm saying. With regard to pornography, his issue,
on top of the issue of porn and one of
the catalyzing issues was unredeemed time and unredeemed time, always
and forever flows to our weaknesses. It never unredeemed time
never goes to woo. Really good stuff. Now it might

(01:04:28):
on occasion, but generally speaking, right on. Ally.

S4 (01:04:31):
Right. I mean, when you find yourself quote unquote, like
wasting time or hours pass and you go, oh my goodness,
what have I been doing? It's usually not like serving
your elderly neighbor that you just got so wrapped up
in what you were doing that you lost track of time? No.
It's usually you lose track of time doing things that

(01:04:52):
you would then go, ah, that was not what I
wanted to be doing. That's not where I wanted to invest.

S2 (01:04:59):
And it's not always porn. It's not always being a shopaholic.
It can be those things on online. It can be
binge watching anything and.

S4 (01:05:09):
Scrolling the binge watching.

S2 (01:05:12):
It can be anything. But here's what I want to do.
I want to give you some overarching sins and give
you the underlying sin that's beneath it. If you look
at pride, that's the overarching sin. The underlying sin is highest.
Authority is not God. It's that simple. God's not on
the throne of our heart. If you look at gluttony,

(01:05:34):
that's a tough one to talk about because there's so
many of us in in the American church that battle
with this. It's satisfaction apart from God. If you look
at greed, it's discontent with the generosity of God. If
you look at hoarding, it's security not found in God.
And lust is gratification apart from God, and envy is contentment,
not found in God. And cowardice is fear of man

(01:05:58):
more than God, and laziness is lacking. The wisdom of
God go beneath. That's all I want to tell you today.
Go beneath the surface and watch God do something.

S4 (01:06:08):
If you want to do, dig more on this topic
of killing sin. Carl's got a book out this year,
Killing Sin. Conquer that one thing that's defeating you. Text
the word conquer. I'll send you the details. Text conquer
to 800 555 7898. Text conquer to 800 555 7898.