July 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Abraham Leonard, Minister of Children at First Baptist Church Kearney, interviews Pastor Justin Perry about parenting. Justin shares his wonderful, educated insights with the world.
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello,
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
welcome to the Kearney Kids Parenting Show.
I am your host, Abraham Leonard,Minister of Children at First
Baptist Church Kearney.
I am so glad that you havejoined us.
(00:39):
Welcome to the show, PastorJustin Perry, coming at us all
the way from Viburnum, Missouri.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
Good to see you, Abraham.
Yeah, it's good to see you.
Could you tell us just a littlebit about your family, your
ministry, and just how you'redoing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Sure.
So, like I said, my name isJustin Perry.
I'm pastor at First BaptistChurch in Viburnum, Missouri,
down here in southeast Missouri.
about two hours south of St.
Louis, two hours north ofSpringfield.
And I've been the pastor herefor 13 years.
(01:16):
And when I moved here, Jenniferand I, well, Jennifer and I just
celebrated our 15th weddinganniversary at the end of May.
And when we moved here, Wedidn't have any kids, but now we
have two, and so Selah andMajor.
Selah's my oldest, and Major'smy youngest, so 12 and 9, and
(01:41):
we've just enjoyed a really goodtime.
really good ministry here.
Kids are in the throes of allthe summer sports and things
that are happening.
So open gyms and baseball andsoftball, playing some rec
leagues and then junior highbasketball stuff and volleyball
(02:02):
stuff for Selah.
So it's a good time.
And then we've got Love ThyNeighbor starting next week.
And so that's our week-longlocal missions week here in our
community.
And so We're excited about thatand getting all geared up for
it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
That's awesome.
Good to see that everything'sdoing okay.
I was just doing a podcastinterview with my dad and he was
talking about all the stuff withJosiah and his open gyms and
stuff.
It's a chaotic time for familieswith with ballplayers.
Oh, yeah.
(02:39):
Do you have any good parentingmemories?
Maybe just tell us a couple ofyour favorite parenting
memories.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
Parenting memories.
So, I actually had...
We were sitting at the ballfield last night and Major was
sitting next to me and I said,what are some of your favorite
memories of just he and I?
And Uh, the one that he pointedout was, um, last year, uh, we
(03:12):
had a family vacation.
We all went, all the Perry'swent to Florida.
And one of the days we went andplayed, um, we went and played
golf and my kids have playedgolf with us since they were
very, very young.
And, um, and so they've, they'veenjoyed that.
playing and just being a part,you know, we, we have a little
nine hole golf course here intown.
And so we would go sometimesafter dinner, just play a couple
(03:35):
of holes.
And they, I think they enjoyedplaying in the sand traps more
than they did, you know, thegolf, but, um, they did play and
they can play and it's, it's funto watch.
Uh, but what struck me aboutthat was, um, he, he said we
were, we were wearing matchingpolos and, um, And, and we did,
(03:59):
and we were, we were wearingmatching polos.
We bought, I bought them onpurpose because, um, I thought
it'd be cute and fun.
And, um, but he, he, heremembered that.
And, um, and I, I, that, thatstruck me.
Uh, of course he also wearspolos, you know, whether it's
(04:19):
Sunday mornings or some othertimes.
And in the last couple of years,um, he started, uh, copy an old
dad, uh, much to his mother's,uh, chagrin.
But, um, I, I, I, I thoughtabout that on the way home last
night and I, and I thought, youknow, that memory didn't stand
(04:39):
out to me.
Um, but it stood out to himbecause, and this is the
conclusion I came to.
He wanted to be like his dad.
He wanted to play golf.
He wanted to wear the same shirtas dad.
UNKNOWN (04:55):
Um,
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
He wanted to pop his collar like dad.
He wanted to be like dad.
So that was Major's favoriteparenting memory.
Some of my greatest memoriesare, and I have many, but
(05:16):
they're around things that we'vedone together as a family.
And so every year we take afamily picture at Love Thy
Neighbor.
uh, with us all wearing the sameshirt, you know, standing there
and it's the four of us.
Um, and it's a reminder that,um, you know, as for me and my
house, we're going to serve theLord and we do it together.
(05:39):
Uh, and so that's, that's fun.
Uh, I love that.
And of course now they'regetting old enough that they can
actually work and, and do someof the things with us.
Um, and then, you know, themajor, uh, Killed his first
turkey this year.
That was exciting.
Of course, I was there when thekids killed their first deer.
(06:02):
And some of those memories willstay with me forever, recovering
those animals and all the thingsgo along with that.
And then also having theprivilege of being able to
baptize both my kids.
I'll never forget those things.
(06:23):
And it was a reminder of whendad baptized me.
I remembered the significanceof, you know, in obedience to
the command of our Lord andSavior, Jesus Christ, on your
public profession of faith inhim, I baptize you, my brother.
And as a eight, seven, eightyear old, I'm standing there in
(06:44):
the baptistry and I'm like, butyou're my dad.
But now we're brothers.
And then doing that with my ownchildren, I'm sure they did not
understand the emotion in myvoice as much as maybe they just
thought that this was asignificant moment that I was
(07:05):
very proud of them, of which itwas and of which I am.
But standing there and saying, Ibaptize you, my sister, I
baptize you, my brother.
It changed things in ourrelationship, but also in just
(07:28):
the way I see all of life.
Those things stick with you.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
Those are some really good parenting memories.
Now to something a little bitharder.
Could you tell us about maybesome hard times that you've had
as a parent and how you'veovercame them?
sure um
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
the reality is is that raising children is not
easy um and i think every parentknows that but they're never
quite prepared for to whatextent it's going to be
difficult um You know, both ofmy kids are what I would
(08:18):
consider to be good kids.
They are, you know, for allintents and purposes, everyone
would see them as kids that youwould want to be friends with
your kids, you know, things likethat.
But that doesn't mean thatthey're not without hardship and
(08:39):
difficulty in raising them.
And there were always timeswhere, so Jennifer and I
referred to them as the darkdays.
And I know that that's a littledramatic, but when a child,
(08:59):
especially in those toddleryears, in those kind of pre-K
years where their verbal skillsoutweigh their, and are more
developed than their emotionalskills.
And so you have an emotionallittle human that you are
dealing with.
And they have no idea how toreally control that, what's
(09:23):
appropriate with regard to that.
And so those were veryfrustrating times when one of
our kids would be so overlyemotional that they could not be
able to function or listen or tofollow commands.
(09:44):
And it was very frustratingbecause to an adult, it's like,
this is very logical.
I said, do this thing.
And so I need you to do thisthing.
And there was just thisdisconnect.
And then the emotion would come.
And then now my emotion would gowith it.
(10:05):
And so that was kind of theearly on that was difficult.
Um, and it was, it was harderthan maybe I've, I've let on,
um, at least to you at thismoment, but, uh, and I, and I
remember one particular timemajor was just throwing a fit
and, and I remember sitting inthe floor with him and just
(10:31):
holding him down and there was,and he was fighting me and he
was screaming and he was cryingand, And I remember thinking,
how am I going to do thisforever?
Because I knew I couldn't.
Yeah.
(10:51):
And finally, he started to calmdown a little bit.
And it was enough for me to beable to at least reason with him
to some degree.
And that finally broke.
And we were able to move on.
Of course, he was very young.
But I remember thinking like,how am I going to be able to
(11:12):
hold him down like this forever?
And that was very difficult.
There have been severalinstances as they've gotten a
little bit older where thedifficulty has now changed.
So not only are we Christians,not only are my children
(11:35):
believers and Christians, Butwe're a ministry family.
They're pastor's kids.
I'm a pastor.
I'm a leader.
And so there are, it's not fairto say that there's a different
set of rules, but there are adifferent set of expectations.
And so we live in a way that isdifferent than other people
(12:01):
live.
And that's difficult for a youngperson.
trying to reconcile, you know,well, why can't I have this
thing?
Or why don't we do this thing?
Or why are they allowed to, butI'm not allowed to?
And so, you know, like with myoldest, she doesn't have a
(12:22):
phone.
And in our day and age, most12-year-olds have a phone.
She doesn't.
And she's not going to.
And so having to have thatconversation with her, like,
hey, look, I know all yourfriends are going to have one.
They're going to tell you thatit's really fun.
It's really great.
And that I'm a bad person fornot allowing you to have one.
(12:43):
But I need you to know that yourmom and I have made this
decision because we want toprotect you.
It's not because we don't trustyou.
It's because the that we believethat this is not something that
will be healthy for you to have.
And so.
We found some ways around it,some really unique and creative
ways that we've been able toutilize technology to be able to
(13:05):
give her access to be able totext me, call me, you know, her
mom, grandparents and someselect few people that we've
been able to do that withouthaving a phone.
And so, you know, they don'thave unfettered access to the
Internet.
And so that was difficult.
She's very mature.
Sheila's very mature.
She's she gets it.
She's fine.
She's like, you know, whatever.
(13:26):
I don't care.
Now, I don't think it's going tobe that easy with Major, but
we'll see.
Hopefully that goes well.
But there was anotherparticularly difficult moment
where I had...
And he responded so well to it,and I was just very proud of
him, that I had to make a veryparticularly difficult decision.
(13:49):
And I knew that that decisionwas going to affect...
a family that had a child thatwas the same age as him.
And, and that there would,because of the nature of the
situation that that other adultwould likely influence their
(14:11):
child to maybe take it out on mychild.
And so I had to, and I knew thatthis would likely happen.
And so I had the ability to beable to, um, kind of brief him
on it beforehand.
And so I was able to do that.
(14:33):
And so this is what I told him.
I said, first of all, I want youto know that I don't ever need
you to defend me.
And I said, I know that you loveme and you know that I love you.
And there's nothing that's goingto change that.
And no matter what anyone says,that's not going to change.
And, you know, of course he'slike, what's going on?
(14:54):
You know, he doesn't reallyunderstand the significance of
it.
Um, but I said, sometimes yourdad has to make difficult
decisions and it hurts me toknow that those decisions may
somehow affect you and thatsomeone may come to you and tell
you how terrible of a person Iam.
(15:18):
I said, okay, you're going to beangry when that happens, but I
need you to do something for me.
And, and I need you to simplylook at that person and say, my
dad has to make a lot ofdifficult decisions.
And I'm sure that was one ofthem.
(15:39):
And then that's it.
And we rehearsed it.
We practiced it.
And, uh, he came home fromschool the next day and he said,
It happened.
I said, well, how'd it go?
He said, it was fine.
I said, what'd you say?
(15:59):
And he said, I told him, my dadhas to make a lot of hard
decisions, and I'm sure that wasone of them.
And I said, what happened afterthat?
He said, they walked away.
And a couple days went by, and Isaid, hey, how's it going at
school?
Is everything okay withso-and-so?
And they're like, yeah,everything's fine.
(16:21):
I was like, good, good.
And so it, but as a parent, itwas very difficult for me to
even have to have a conversationwith my nine-year-old that says
something that I have done, Ibelieve is going to affect you.
(16:43):
Now, I wouldn't change what Idid, but now you have to do
something differently than youwould normally because of what I
had done.
And that hurt me.
But I was grateful that helistened and I was grateful that
he was understanding.
(17:04):
And even though he later on didfind out some of the details of
what was going on, it didn'tchange anything.
And I hope that later on, ifthat situation ever arises
again, that he will now have thebackground to be able to say,
hey, My dad has to make a lot ofhard decisions, and I'm sure
that was one.
And not have to defend me.
(17:27):
Don't have to fight for myhonor.
You don't have to come to myrescue.
It's all good.
And this is the way you're goingto handle it when that type of
thing happens.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
That's really good.
Some good examples of hard timesthat you had to go through as a
parent and that you overcamevery well and pastorally, it
sounds like.
And so...
I think that'll be helpful forthe people listening.
If you're going to go back intime to before you had a kid,
but you're about to have a kid,you're about to become a father
(18:00):
and you're going to giveyourself parenting advice, what
would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
So you sent me that question and I thought about it
because...
And so here's my answer.
It's kind of twofold.
One, I would not...
changed much because I had gotsome of what I believe is some
of the best advice I ever, Icould have ever received.
(18:26):
And I remember sitting in,Jennifer and I were newly
married.
We were sitting at church whenwe were in, when I was in
seminary in Louisville and wewere just sitting there in
church one day and the pastorwas preaching from first Samuel.
And it was with regard to Samueland his sons, Eli and Cochran.
(18:47):
Eli's sons, Hophni and Phineas.
And he, he made the statement,um, because Hophni and Phineas
are, are terrible examples.
They're bad sons.
They're sinful.
They are what, and the way thatEli parents them, um, leads to
(19:08):
all of their destruction.
Yeah.
And so it's a terrible example,but he, but he, he made this
statement and, and I'm going totry to, make sure I get it
right.
Uh, but he said with the samedegree that you require your
children to listen to your voicewill be to the same degree that
(19:32):
they have a chance to listen tothe voice of God.
And I looked at Jennifer and Iwas like, that's huge.
That is, That is massive.
And so what that told me wasthat for Jennifer and I, our
(19:54):
parenting was going to be areverse or it was going to be a
triangle with regard to the waythat we give our kids choices,
the way that we allow forfreedom.
And so at the very beginning,when they are early on in their
(20:15):
lives, they're going to have nochoices.
They're going to have nofreedom.
They are going to, everything isgoing to be done for them.
Those choices are going to bemade for them.
And their lives are going to,from the outside perspective,
have very little freedom.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
And
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
as they grow and they develop and they mature,
then they will be allowed tohave more choices, more freedom,
and more ability to exert theirown individualism.
So that when they are young,they are listening to my voice
(20:54):
and my voice only.
And by my, I mean Jennifer andI.
And then as they grow older,then we will allow for more
voices to be included in theirlives.
Knowing that we've built afoundation of them listening to
(21:17):
us so that one day we hope thatwhen all of the choices are
theirs and all of the freedom istheirs, that they will choose to
listen to God's voice.
And so that advice was huge.
for us in the very beginning.
And it, and it guided everythingthat we have done and are doing
right now.
(21:38):
Um, and so that gives me greatconfidence moving forward as our
kids grow and as they developand as they kind of hit
milestones and do differentthings, but Hey, Hey, this is
part of that.
I got to let them because we've,we've done what we, we believe
we should do.
The other one's a little bit, Ilearned later on, um, whenever I
was here at, uh, my burn, great,great friend of ours, uh, Um,
(22:00):
cause I was always, I was very,very particular about things.
And so, um, I liked, um, youknow, they, they would do art
and they would do all this stuffand there would be this giant
mess.
And so that Jennifer always hadpaints and colors and markers
and stickers and paper and allthis stuff.
And we still have this, thiskind of art center.
We call it the art center in,uh, in Plato and Jennifer's
(22:23):
school teachers, she would makeher own Plato.
And, you know, we always hadPlato everywhere and paints and
all that stuff always out.
And it always frustrated mewhenever they would take their
paints and they would, they allhad, you know, the little
container that you can put alittle bit of red, a little bit
of yellow, a little bit of blue,and you just squirt little bits
in there.
And they would take all that andthey just mix it all together.
(22:46):
And it just was like, oh mygoodness, why are you doing
that?
And it frustrated me.
And then the same thing with thePlay-Doh.
You know, you have your greenPlay-Doh, your blue Play-Doh,
your green Play-Doh, and youhave all these different colors
and they have their own separatebag or they have their own
little container.
And when you get one out, youplay with that one.
And then when you're done withthat one, you put it back in the
(23:07):
container and you get a new oneout and you play with that
color.
And they would take thosedifferent ones and they'd open
them all up and they'd squishthem together.
And it just, it was like, youruined it.
And I'll never forget, he madethe comment to me, he said, and
(23:27):
this was a metaphor forparenting.
And he said, what does it matterif they mix the Play-Doh
together?
And at the end of the day, I waslike, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
(23:48):
Cause you know what?
They're going to put it all in abag and tomorrow they're going
to get it out and they're goingto play with the mixed up
Toledo.
They don't care.
It didn't bother them.
It only bothered me.
And, and so that was, that wasone.
The other was same guy.
And he, he made the comment tome and this was, he was making
(24:14):
comment of his own life is that,when his kids would ask him
early on so he had two childrenand then there was a pretty big
gap and then they had the thirdchild and um he said that with
the first two he he looked backon that and he said the the kids
would come to him and they wouldask dad what can you play with
(24:34):
us and he would you know oftenplay with them or or things but
there would be times where hewould say no And it would be
because he had a long day or hehad just gotten home or he had
other chores to do or thingslike that.
And so when his third child camearound, he realized that him
(25:00):
saying no was him saying, mylife is more important than your
life.
And so...
he encouraged me that when yourkids ask you to go play, stop
what you're doing and go play.
Because at that point you'retelling them my life, I'm
(25:25):
willing to set aside my life foryour life.
And they're not going to see itwhen they're five, six, seven,
eight, nine, 10, 12 years old,but they will see it when
they're 25 and 30 and 35 yearsold.
that dad set aside his life formy life.
And, um, and that stuck with me.
(25:47):
So when the kids say, dad, willyou catch me while I pitch?
You betcha.
Stop what I'm doing.
I'm going to go, I'm going to goplay catch.
Um, dad, can you come watch me?
I'm going to, I'm going to dothis thing.
Yep.
I'll come watch.
Um, I mean, I always want to, infact, most of the time I don't
want to, um, I'm tired or I justgot in or I just sat down or I
(26:10):
just finished dinner and I don'treally want to.
But I try and I will go and Iwill do.
So those are those pieces ofadvice.
Those last two, I wish I maybewould have known a little bit
sooner, but I did catch thempretty early on.
And then the first one I knewvery early on, even before we
(26:30):
had kids.
And I'm so thankful that I hadthose pieces of advice.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Those are really good pieces of advice.
I want to end on a little bitlighter note.
Do you have maybe your favoriteor a couple of your favorite
funny parenting stories?
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Yes.
So I had to go back and findthis one because I remember I
think I posted it on Facebookand I don't remember what the
date was.
I don't know if the date's evenon here.
It was back from 2017.
So when the kids were, wereyoung, Jennifer started, when
(27:12):
they would go to bed, we wouldalways, we would read.
And so she would read to themand then we would pray or, or we
would sing.
And oftentimes it was just, youknow, nursery rhymes, that type
of thing, you know?
And, and so we, we always sangand always read and, and,
(27:33):
because of that, there was justa pattern that has continued
really.
I mean, we didn't stop singingto our kids.
So, you know, just several yearsago.
So they've been, sung to andread to for forever.
But, you know, after you've readall the children's books you can
read and, you know, as our kidsgot a little bit older, we, you
know, we began to read Biblestories and, and different
(27:56):
devotional books and differentthings like that as they, as
they got a little older.
And one particular night we, Andthen sometimes whenever I had
done all of that and whatever,they would say, well, tell me a
story.
And I would tell them some crazystory about, you know, my
grandpa or about, you know, mydad or, you know, some, some,
because they, they had crazystories and I just, I always
(28:18):
loved to retell them.
Uh, but, uh, one particularnight I was, I was reading, I
was reading a Bible story out ofa book to, to Selah.
And so that I'll read you thepost because it is, it was
pretty funny.
And so, uh, It says, well,telling Selah's story of Jesus
and Peter walking on the waterand then discussing the
(28:39):
practical importance of fixingour eyes on Jesus, no matter our
circumstances.
She stopped me mid-bedtimesermon and says, well, if Peter
was wearing a swimsuit and hisfloaties, he could have just
swam back to the boat.
And I thought, well played, tinyhuman.
(29:00):
Well played.
And I thought about that andjust looking back on that and
going, here's this little girlwho's listening to her dad tell
a story out of the Bible.
And she's thinking about it.
(29:23):
She's thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
And there Peter is.
And you could talk about all thetheological implications of
Peter's lack of faith and thefact that he didn't have his
eyes fixed on Jesus.
And when he got out of the boat,fear overcame him and he began
to sink.
And Jesus was using this as aseminal moment to teach him
about all these wonderfulthings.
(29:46):
And in her mind, all she wasthinking was, well, if he'd have
been wearing his swimsuit andhis floaties, then he could have
just swam back to the boat.
And it was like...
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
If he had his swim trunks on andhe'd have been wearing his
floaties, they would have beenjust fine.
And I thought about how funnythat was in the moment and just
(30:10):
the fact that she was thinkingabout all those things and never
even crossed my mind.
The other one was with Major.
We had gone deer hunting down atour family farm and he had shot
a doe.
And I watched that doe.
I thought I couldn't really tellhow good a shot he had made on
(30:33):
that doe.
And she ran down through a creekand then up the other side.
And I thought I heard her godown.
But I also knew that this creekwas very deep and the banks were
very tall.
And so, you know, we're talkingabout 20 foot banks that would
have really made for a it's atough hike to get down and to
(30:53):
get back up and then to drive abeer.
Man, it was going to be tough.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
So
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I wasn't real thrilled about it.
And so the fact that it may havebeen a questionable shot was
also not real exciting.
But we got to the other side ofthe bank where I saw her go up
and I saw the beginning of theblood trail.
And so now I'm like, okay, dadmoment.
Hey, let's you track your owndeer.
(31:18):
And so he's maybe seven yearsold, no more than, 48 inches
tall.
I mean, he's little.
And, uh, and so I'm standingbehind him and he is crouched
over looking down at the ground,looking down at the ground and
(31:42):
getting excited.
Oh, there's blood there.
There's blood there.
There's blood there.
And he's just kind of pickinghis way through the woods,
picking his way through thewoods.
And it's not my first time.
And so I look up and Iimmediately see the deer.
just around the corner by atree.
He has no idea this deer isthere.
(32:04):
And he's just looking at theblood and following the trip.
And I keep thinking, he's goingto see this deer any minute.
He's going to trip over.
And so I start videotaping himbecause I know at some point
he's going to, it's going to bean aha moment.
(32:24):
He's going to realize what hashappened.
And it's going to hit him.
And he gets to, I mean, he hasto step over the leg of the deer
before he stands there.
And I stop him and I'm like,hey, look behind you.
(32:45):
And he turns around and was likethe surprise on his eyes was
like, Oh my goodness.
And he, uh, and he realizes thatthere, there it was.
And I just, I, I'll, I'll neverforget that, that track job, you
know, cause he, and then he, heeven mentioned it to me last
night when I was telling himthat I was going to be talking
to you about some of this stuff.
And he, uh, he's like, Oh, youremember that time?
(33:06):
I was tripped over the deer.
I was like, yeah, I do rememberthat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
Uh, that was, uh, that was a good one.
That's a pretty funny story.
A good note to end on.
On behalf of all the listenersand myself, I want to thank you
for being on the show today.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
Thank you, Abraham, for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Thank you for joining me.
I hope this was an encouragementto you.
Please follow the show, leave areview, and share it with the
people around you.
Hello,
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
welcome to the Kearney Kids Parenting Show.
I am your host, Abraham Leonard,Minister of Children at First
Baptist Church Kearney.
I am so glad that you havejoined us.
(00:39):
Welcome to the show, PastorJustin Perry, coming at us all
the way from Viburnum, Missouri.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
Good to see you, Abraham.
Yeah, it's good to see you.
Could you tell us just a littlebit about your family, your
ministry, and just how you'redoing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Sure.
So, like I said, my name isJustin Perry.
I'm pastor at First BaptistChurch in Viburnum, Missouri,
down here in southeast Missouri.
about two hours south of St.
Louis, two hours north ofSpringfield.
And I've been the pastor herefor 13 years.
(01:16):
And when I moved here, Jenniferand I, well, Jennifer and I just
celebrated our 15th weddinganniversary at the end of May.
And when we moved here, Wedidn't have any kids, but now we
have two, and so Selah andMajor.
Selah's my oldest, and Major'smy youngest, so 12 and 9, and
(01:41):
we've just enjoyed a really goodtime.
really good ministry here.
Kids are in the throes of allthe summer sports and things
that are happening.
So open gyms and baseball andsoftball, playing some rec
leagues and then junior highbasketball stuff and volleyball
(02:02):
stuff for Selah.
So it's a good time.
And then we've got Love ThyNeighbor starting next week.
And so that's our week-longlocal missions week here in our
community.
And so We're excited about thatand getting all geared up for
it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
That's awesome.
Good to see that everything'sdoing okay.
I was just doing a podcastinterview with my dad and he was
talking about all the stuff withJosiah and his open gyms and
stuff.
It's a chaotic time for familieswith with ballplayers.
Oh, yeah.
(02:39):
Do you have any good parentingmemories?
Maybe just tell us a couple ofyour favorite parenting
memories.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
Parenting memories.
So, I actually had...
We were sitting at the ballfield last night and Major was
sitting next to me and I said,what are some of your favorite
memories of just he and I?
And Uh, the one that he pointedout was, um, last year, uh, we
(03:12):
had a family vacation.
We all went, all the Perry'swent to Florida.
And one of the days we went andplayed, um, we went and played
golf and my kids have playedgolf with us since they were
very, very young.
And, um, and so they've, they'veenjoyed that.
playing and just being a part,you know, we, we have a little
nine hole golf course here intown.
And so we would go sometimesafter dinner, just play a couple
(03:35):
of holes.
And they, I think they enjoyedplaying in the sand traps more
than they did, you know, thegolf, but, um, they did play and
they can play and it's, it's funto watch.
Uh, but what struck me aboutthat was, um, he, he said we
were, we were wearing matchingpolos and, um, And, and we did,
(03:59):
and we were, we were wearingmatching polos.
We bought, I bought them onpurpose because, um, I thought
it'd be cute and fun.
And, um, but he, he, heremembered that.
And, um, and I, I, that, thatstruck me.
Uh, of course he also wearspolos, you know, whether it's
(04:19):
Sunday mornings or some othertimes.
And in the last couple of years,um, he started, uh, copy an old
dad, uh, much to his mother's,uh, chagrin.
But, um, I, I, I, I thoughtabout that on the way home last
night and I, and I thought, youknow, that memory didn't stand
(04:39):
out to me.
Um, but it stood out to himbecause, and this is the
conclusion I came to.
He wanted to be like his dad.
He wanted to play golf.
He wanted to wear the same shirtas dad.
UNKNOWN (04:55):
Um,
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
He wanted to pop his collar like dad.
He wanted to be like dad.
So that was Major's favoriteparenting memory.
Some of my greatest memoriesare, and I have many, but
(05:16):
they're around things that we'vedone together as a family.
And so every year we take afamily picture at Love Thy
Neighbor.
uh, with us all wearing the sameshirt, you know, standing there
and it's the four of us.
Um, and it's a reminder that,um, you know, as for me and my
house, we're going to serve theLord and we do it together.
(05:39):
Uh, and so that's, that's fun.
Uh, I love that.
And of course now they'regetting old enough that they can
actually work and, and do someof the things with us.
Um, and then, you know, themajor, uh, Killed his first
turkey this year.
That was exciting.
Of course, I was there when thekids killed their first deer.
(06:02):
And some of those memories willstay with me forever, recovering
those animals and all the thingsgo along with that.
And then also having theprivilege of being able to
baptize both my kids.
I'll never forget those things.
(06:23):
And it was a reminder of whendad baptized me.
I remembered the significanceof, you know, in obedience to
the command of our Lord andSavior, Jesus Christ, on your
public profession of faith inhim, I baptize you, my brother.
And as a eight, seven, eightyear old, I'm standing there in
(06:44):
the baptistry and I'm like, butyou're my dad.
But now we're brothers.
And then doing that with my ownchildren, I'm sure they did not
understand the emotion in myvoice as much as maybe they just
thought that this was asignificant moment that I was
(07:05):
very proud of them, of which itwas and of which I am.
But standing there and saying, Ibaptize you, my sister, I
baptize you, my brother.
It changed things in ourrelationship, but also in just
(07:28):
the way I see all of life.
Those things stick with you.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
Those are some really good parenting memories.
Now to something a little bitharder.
Could you tell us about maybesome hard times that you've had
as a parent and how you'veovercame them?
sure um
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
the reality is is that raising children is not
easy um and i think every parentknows that but they're never
quite prepared for to whatextent it's going to be
difficult um You know, both ofmy kids are what I would
(08:18):
consider to be good kids.
They are, you know, for allintents and purposes, everyone
would see them as kids that youwould want to be friends with
your kids, you know, things likethat.
But that doesn't mean thatthey're not without hardship and
(08:39):
difficulty in raising them.
And there were always timeswhere, so Jennifer and I
referred to them as the darkdays.
And I know that that's a littledramatic, but when a child,
(08:59):
especially in those toddleryears, in those kind of pre-K
years where their verbal skillsoutweigh their, and are more
developed than their emotionalskills.
And so you have an emotionallittle human that you are
dealing with.
And they have no idea how toreally control that, what's
(09:23):
appropriate with regard to that.
And so those were veryfrustrating times when one of
our kids would be so overlyemotional that they could not be
able to function or listen or tofollow commands.
(09:44):
And it was very frustratingbecause to an adult, it's like,
this is very logical.
I said, do this thing.
And so I need you to do thisthing.
And there was just thisdisconnect.
And then the emotion would come.
And then now my emotion would gowith it.
(10:05):
And so that was kind of theearly on that was difficult.
Um, and it was, it was harderthan maybe I've, I've let on,
um, at least to you at thismoment, but, uh, and I, and I
remember one particular timemajor was just throwing a fit
and, and I remember sitting inthe floor with him and just
(10:31):
holding him down and there was,and he was fighting me and he
was screaming and he was cryingand, And I remember thinking,
how am I going to do thisforever?
Because I knew I couldn't.
Yeah.
(10:51):
And finally, he started to calmdown a little bit.
And it was enough for me to beable to at least reason with him
to some degree.
And that finally broke.
And we were able to move on.
Of course, he was very young.
But I remember thinking like,how am I going to be able to
(11:12):
hold him down like this forever?
And that was very difficult.
There have been severalinstances as they've gotten a
little bit older where thedifficulty has now changed.
So not only are we Christians,not only are my children
(11:35):
believers and Christians, Butwe're a ministry family.
They're pastor's kids.
I'm a pastor.
I'm a leader.
And so there are, it's not fairto say that there's a different
set of rules, but there are adifferent set of expectations.
And so we live in a way that isdifferent than other people
(12:01):
live.
And that's difficult for a youngperson.
trying to reconcile, you know,well, why can't I have this
thing?
Or why don't we do this thing?
Or why are they allowed to, butI'm not allowed to?
And so, you know, like with myoldest, she doesn't have a
(12:22):
phone.
And in our day and age, most12-year-olds have a phone.
She doesn't.
And she's not going to.
And so having to have thatconversation with her, like,
hey, look, I know all yourfriends are going to have one.
They're going to tell you thatit's really fun.
It's really great.
And that I'm a bad person fornot allowing you to have one.
(12:43):
But I need you to know that yourmom and I have made this
decision because we want toprotect you.
It's not because we don't trustyou.
It's because the that we believethat this is not something that
will be healthy for you to have.
And so.
We found some ways around it,some really unique and creative
ways that we've been able toutilize technology to be able to
(13:05):
give her access to be able totext me, call me, you know, her
mom, grandparents and someselect few people that we've
been able to do that withouthaving a phone.
And so, you know, they don'thave unfettered access to the
Internet.
And so that was difficult.
She's very mature.
Sheila's very mature.
She's she gets it.
She's fine.
She's like, you know, whatever.
(13:26):
I don't care.
Now, I don't think it's going tobe that easy with Major, but
we'll see.
Hopefully that goes well.
But there was anotherparticularly difficult moment
where I had...
And he responded so well to it,and I was just very proud of
him, that I had to make a veryparticularly difficult decision.
(13:49):
And I knew that that decisionwas going to affect...
a family that had a child thatwas the same age as him.
And, and that there would,because of the nature of the
situation that that other adultwould likely influence their
(14:11):
child to maybe take it out on mychild.
And so I had to, and I knew thatthis would likely happen.
And so I had the ability to beable to, um, kind of brief him
on it beforehand.
And so I was able to do that.
(14:33):
And so this is what I told him.
I said, first of all, I want youto know that I don't ever need
you to defend me.
And I said, I know that you loveme and you know that I love you.
And there's nothing that's goingto change that.
And no matter what anyone says,that's not going to change.
And, you know, of course he'slike, what's going on?
(14:54):
You know, he doesn't reallyunderstand the significance of
it.
Um, but I said, sometimes yourdad has to make difficult
decisions and it hurts me toknow that those decisions may
somehow affect you and thatsomeone may come to you and tell
you how terrible of a person Iam.
(15:18):
I said, okay, you're going to beangry when that happens, but I
need you to do something for me.
And, and I need you to simplylook at that person and say, my
dad has to make a lot ofdifficult decisions.
And I'm sure that was one ofthem.
(15:39):
And then that's it.
And we rehearsed it.
We practiced it.
And, uh, he came home fromschool the next day and he said,
It happened.
I said, well, how'd it go?
He said, it was fine.
I said, what'd you say?
(15:59):
And he said, I told him, my dadhas to make a lot of hard
decisions, and I'm sure that wasone of them.
And I said, what happened afterthat?
He said, they walked away.
And a couple days went by, and Isaid, hey, how's it going at
school?
Is everything okay withso-and-so?
And they're like, yeah,everything's fine.
(16:21):
I was like, good, good.
And so it, but as a parent, itwas very difficult for me to
even have to have a conversationwith my nine-year-old that says
something that I have done, Ibelieve is going to affect you.
(16:43):
Now, I wouldn't change what Idid, but now you have to do
something differently than youwould normally because of what I
had done.
And that hurt me.
But I was grateful that helistened and I was grateful that
he was understanding.
(17:04):
And even though he later on didfind out some of the details of
what was going on, it didn'tchange anything.
And I hope that later on, ifthat situation ever arises
again, that he will now have thebackground to be able to say,
hey, My dad has to make a lot ofhard decisions, and I'm sure
that was one.
And not have to defend me.
(17:27):
Don't have to fight for myhonor.
You don't have to come to myrescue.
It's all good.
And this is the way you're goingto handle it when that type of
thing happens.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
That's really good.
Some good examples of hard timesthat you had to go through as a
parent and that you overcamevery well and pastorally, it
sounds like.
And so...
I think that'll be helpful forthe people listening.
If you're going to go back intime to before you had a kid,
but you're about to have a kid,you're about to become a father
(18:00):
and you're going to giveyourself parenting advice, what
would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
So you sent me that question and I thought about it
because...
And so here's my answer.
It's kind of twofold.
One, I would not...
changed much because I had gotsome of what I believe is some
of the best advice I ever, Icould have ever received.
(18:26):
And I remember sitting in,Jennifer and I were newly
married.
We were sitting at church whenwe were in, when I was in
seminary in Louisville and wewere just sitting there in
church one day and the pastorwas preaching from first Samuel.
And it was with regard to Samueland his sons, Eli and Cochran.
(18:47):
Eli's sons, Hophni and Phineas.
And he, he made the statement,um, because Hophni and Phineas
are, are terrible examples.
They're bad sons.
They're sinful.
They are what, and the way thatEli parents them, um, leads to
(19:08):
all of their destruction.
Yeah.
And so it's a terrible example,but he, but he, he made this
statement and, and I'm going totry to, make sure I get it
right.
Uh, but he said with the samedegree that you require your
children to listen to your voicewill be to the same degree that
(19:32):
they have a chance to listen tothe voice of God.
And I looked at Jennifer and Iwas like, that's huge.
That is, That is massive.
And so what that told me wasthat for Jennifer and I, our
(19:54):
parenting was going to be areverse or it was going to be a
triangle with regard to the waythat we give our kids choices,
the way that we allow forfreedom.
And so at the very beginning,when they are early on in their
(20:15):
lives, they're going to have nochoices.
They're going to have nofreedom.
They are going to, everything isgoing to be done for them.
Those choices are going to bemade for them.
And their lives are going to,from the outside perspective,
have very little freedom.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
And
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
as they grow and they develop and they mature,
then they will be allowed tohave more choices, more freedom,
and more ability to exert theirown individualism.
So that when they are young,they are listening to my voice
(20:54):
and my voice only.
And by my, I mean Jennifer andI.
And then as they grow older,then we will allow for more
voices to be included in theirlives.
Knowing that we've built afoundation of them listening to
(21:17):
us so that one day we hope thatwhen all of the choices are
theirs and all of the freedom istheirs, that they will choose to
listen to God's voice.
And so that advice was huge.
for us in the very beginning.
And it, and it guided everythingthat we have done and are doing
right now.
(21:38):
Um, and so that gives me greatconfidence moving forward as our
kids grow and as they developand as they kind of hit
milestones and do differentthings, but Hey, Hey, this is
part of that.
I got to let them because we've,we've done what we, we believe
we should do.
The other one's a little bit, Ilearned later on, um, whenever I
was here at, uh, my burn, great,great friend of ours, uh, Um,
(22:00):
cause I was always, I was very,very particular about things.
And so, um, I liked, um, youknow, they, they would do art
and they would do all this stuffand there would be this giant
mess.
And so that Jennifer always hadpaints and colors and markers
and stickers and paper and allthis stuff.
And we still have this, thiskind of art center.
We call it the art center in,uh, in Plato and Jennifer's
(22:23):
school teachers, she would makeher own Plato.
And, you know, we always hadPlato everywhere and paints and
all that stuff always out.
And it always frustrated mewhenever they would take their
paints and they would, they allhad, you know, the little
container that you can put alittle bit of red, a little bit
of yellow, a little bit of blue,and you just squirt little bits
in there.
And they would take all that andthey just mix it all together.
(22:46):
And it just was like, oh mygoodness, why are you doing
that?
And it frustrated me.
And then the same thing with thePlay-Doh.
You know, you have your greenPlay-Doh, your blue Play-Doh,
your green Play-Doh, and youhave all these different colors
and they have their own separatebag or they have their own
little container.
And when you get one out, youplay with that one.
And then when you're done withthat one, you put it back in the
(23:07):
container and you get a new oneout and you play with that
color.
And they would take thosedifferent ones and they'd open
them all up and they'd squishthem together.
And it just, it was like, youruined it.
And I'll never forget, he madethe comment to me, he said, and
(23:27):
this was a metaphor forparenting.
And he said, what does it matterif they mix the Play-Doh
together?
And at the end of the day, I waslike, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
(23:48):
Cause you know what?
They're going to put it all in abag and tomorrow they're going
to get it out and they're goingto play with the mixed up
Toledo.
They don't care.
It didn't bother them.
It only bothered me.
And, and so that was, that wasone.
The other was same guy.
And he, he made the comment tome and this was, he was making
(24:14):
comment of his own life is that,when his kids would ask him
early on so he had two childrenand then there was a pretty big
gap and then they had the thirdchild and um he said that with
the first two he he looked backon that and he said the the kids
would come to him and they wouldask dad what can you play with
(24:34):
us and he would you know oftenplay with them or or things but
there would be times where hewould say no And it would be
because he had a long day or hehad just gotten home or he had
other chores to do or thingslike that.
And so when his third child camearound, he realized that him
(25:00):
saying no was him saying, mylife is more important than your
life.
And so...
he encouraged me that when yourkids ask you to go play, stop
what you're doing and go play.
Because at that point you'retelling them my life, I'm
(25:25):
willing to set aside my life foryour life.
And they're not going to see itwhen they're five, six, seven,
eight, nine, 10, 12 years old,but they will see it when
they're 25 and 30 and 35 yearsold.
that dad set aside his life formy life.
And, um, and that stuck with me.
(25:47):
So when the kids say, dad, willyou catch me while I pitch?
You betcha.
Stop what I'm doing.
I'm going to go, I'm going to goplay catch.
Um, dad, can you come watch me?
I'm going to, I'm going to dothis thing.
Yep.
I'll come watch.
Um, I mean, I always want to, infact, most of the time I don't
want to, um, I'm tired or I justgot in or I just sat down or I
(26:10):
just finished dinner and I don'treally want to.
But I try and I will go and Iwill do.
So those are those pieces ofadvice.
Those last two, I wish I maybewould have known a little bit
sooner, but I did catch thempretty early on.
And then the first one I knewvery early on, even before we
(26:30):
had kids.
And I'm so thankful that I hadthose pieces of advice.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Those are really good pieces of advice.
I want to end on a little bitlighter note.
Do you have maybe your favoriteor a couple of your favorite
funny parenting stories?
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Yes.
So I had to go back and findthis one because I remember I
think I posted it on Facebookand I don't remember what the
date was.
I don't know if the date's evenon here.
It was back from 2017.
So when the kids were, wereyoung, Jennifer started, when
(27:12):
they would go to bed, we wouldalways, we would read.
And so she would read to themand then we would pray or, or we
would sing.
And oftentimes it was just, youknow, nursery rhymes, that type
of thing, you know?
And, and so we, we always sangand always read and, and,
(27:33):
because of that, there was justa pattern that has continued
really.
I mean, we didn't stop singingto our kids.
So, you know, just several yearsago.
So they've been, sung to andread to for forever.
But, you know, after you've readall the children's books you can
read and, you know, as our kidsgot a little bit older, we, you
know, we began to read Biblestories and, and different
(27:56):
devotional books and differentthings like that as they, as
they got a little older.
And one particular night we, Andthen sometimes whenever I had
done all of that and whatever,they would say, well, tell me a
story.
And I would tell them some crazystory about, you know, my
grandpa or about, you know, mydad or, you know, some, some,
because they, they had crazystories and I just, I always
(28:18):
loved to retell them.
Uh, but, uh, one particularnight I was, I was reading, I
was reading a Bible story out ofa book to, to Selah.
And so that I'll read you thepost because it is, it was
pretty funny.
And so, uh, It says, well,telling Selah's story of Jesus
and Peter walking on the waterand then discussing the
(28:39):
practical importance of fixingour eyes on Jesus, no matter our
circumstances.
She stopped me mid-bedtimesermon and says, well, if Peter
was wearing a swimsuit and hisfloaties, he could have just
swam back to the boat.
And I thought, well played, tinyhuman.
(29:00):
Well played.
And I thought about that andjust looking back on that and
going, here's this little girlwho's listening to her dad tell
a story out of the Bible.
And she's thinking about it.
(29:23):
She's thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
And there Peter is.
And you could talk about all thetheological implications of
Peter's lack of faith and thefact that he didn't have his
eyes fixed on Jesus.
And when he got out of the boat,fear overcame him and he began
to sink.
And Jesus was using this as aseminal moment to teach him
about all these wonderfulthings.
(29:46):
And in her mind, all she wasthinking was, well, if he'd have
been wearing his swimsuit andhis floaties, then he could have
just swam back to the boat.
And it was like...
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
If he had his swim trunks on andhe'd have been wearing his
floaties, they would have beenjust fine.
And I thought about how funnythat was in the moment and just
(30:10):
the fact that she was thinkingabout all those things and never
even crossed my mind.
The other one was with Major.
We had gone deer hunting down atour family farm and he had shot
a doe.
And I watched that doe.
I thought I couldn't really tellhow good a shot he had made on
(30:33):
that doe.
And she ran down through a creekand then up the other side.
And I thought I heard her godown.
But I also knew that this creekwas very deep and the banks were
very tall.
And so, you know, we're talkingabout 20 foot banks that would
have really made for a it's atough hike to get down and to
(30:53):
get back up and then to drive abeer.
Man, it was going to be tough.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
So
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I wasn't real thrilled about it.
And so the fact that it may havebeen a questionable shot was
also not real exciting.
But we got to the other side ofthe bank where I saw her go up
and I saw the beginning of theblood trail.
And so now I'm like, okay, dadmoment.
Hey, let's you track your owndeer.
(31:18):
And so he's maybe seven yearsold, no more than, 48 inches
tall.
I mean, he's little.
And, uh, and so I'm standingbehind him and he is crouched
over looking down at the ground,looking down at the ground and
(31:42):
getting excited.
Oh, there's blood there.
There's blood there.
There's blood there.
And he's just kind of pickinghis way through the woods,
picking his way through thewoods.
And it's not my first time.
And so I look up and Iimmediately see the deer.
just around the corner by atree.
He has no idea this deer isthere.
(32:04):
And he's just looking at theblood and following the trip.
And I keep thinking, he's goingto see this deer any minute.
He's going to trip over.
And so I start videotaping himbecause I know at some point
he's going to, it's going to bean aha moment.
(32:24):
He's going to realize what hashappened.
And it's going to hit him.
And he gets to, I mean, he hasto step over the leg of the deer
before he stands there.
And I stop him and I'm like,hey, look behind you.
(32:45):
And he turns around and was likethe surprise on his eyes was
like, Oh my goodness.
And he, uh, and he realizes thatthere, there it was.
And I just, I, I'll, I'll neverforget that, that track job, you
know, cause he, and then he, heeven mentioned it to me last
night when I was telling himthat I was going to be talking
to you about some of this stuff.
And he, uh, he's like, Oh, youremember that time?
(33:06):
I was tripped over the deer.
I was like, yeah, I do rememberthat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
Uh, that was, uh, that was a good one.
That's a pretty funny story.
A good note to end on.
On behalf of all the listenersand myself, I want to thank you
for being on the show today.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
Thank you, Abraham, for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Thank you for joining me.
I hope this was an encouragementto you.
Please follow the show, leave areview, and share it with the
people around you.
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