August 15, 2024 • 55 mins
Ever wondered about the real dynamics between traditional farmers and modern homesteaders? Join me, Dawn Gorham, along with my special guest Stephanie Tallent, as we uncover the deep-seated tensions and profound shifts within the world of agriculture. We promise you'll gain valuable insights into how corporate influence has shaped contemporary farming practices, and how homesteaders are pushing back with a holistic, self-sufficient approach. We also discuss how homesteaders might want to check our attitudes at the door.
Stephanie and I also dive into the fascinating yet contentious world of raw milk farming. You'll hear personal stories that highlight the evolving perceptions of raw milk, the contrasting realities between small-scale and industrial dairy operations, and the unique regulatory challenges faced by farmers. We discuss the growing direct-to-consumer demand for raw milk and the philosophical shift towards a more personalized approach to food and healthcare.
Lastly, we explore the diverse ideologies within the homesteading community, touching on everything from natural and herbal methodologies to more conventional practices. We talk about the critical importance of learning from experienced farmers, the need for preparedness in emergency situations, and share exciting updates from our own farms. This episode is packed with real-life experiences, practical tips, and heartfelt reflections that you won't want to miss!
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Episode Transcript
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Dawn Gorham (00:17):
Hey y'all, and welcome to keeping it real the
Gorham homestead podcast, wherewe talk about real food, real
natural living, the real art ofnatural healing and real life
out here in our Tennesseehomestead podcast, where we talk
about real food, real naturalliving, the real art of natural
healing and real life out herein our Tennessee homestead.
I'm your host, awn Gorham, andtoday is Thursday, august the
15th, 2024, and you arelistening to episode number 21.
Our topic today is aninteresting one.
(00:40):
That has kind of been on mymind lately.
It is why farmers don'tparticularly like homesteaders.
And today I have joining me myfriend, my cow mentor, somebody
that I deeply respect and reallyadmire, and it's Stephanie
Talent, and we're going to bejust diving into this discussion
(01:01):
and see what comes out of it,because I think we both kind of
have some theories and someideas on maybe why this has
happened, so we're just going tojump right in.
Welcome, stephanie, say hi, hi,thank you for having me.
You're so welcome.
I'm excited because this is thefirst time that I've had
anybody in the studio actuallyother than my husband.
So this is a new experience forme and I'm just excited to add
(01:25):
this to my repertoire being ableto interview people and talk
about stuff.
So have you encountered this awhole lot in your situation?
Because I'll have to admit I'mjust going to start this off by
saying I was surprised, like Ididn't see it coming, because I
grew up with like a homesteaderfamily.
(01:46):
They weren't big traditionalfarming family, they were just
stuck on 10 acres and everythingsort of worked together.
It was permaculture before.
Permaculture was cool, orprobably during it.
I just didn't know it.
And so I anticipated that whenI went out to talk to some of
the traditional farmers thatthey would be like my granddaddy
and be willing to answerquestions and, you know, talk
(02:09):
about the old days, and theyjust I've been met with nothing
but brick walls.
Have you had any experiencelike that?
Stephanie Tallent (02:16):
I have and I've encountered it from both
sides because my family inGeorgia are all conventional
farmers.
My grandparents ran a smallfamily dairy.
All my aunts and uncles areeither doing commercial chickens
or cows or, you know, anguscows or whatever, and they're
all doing it.
They're all doing it on a bigscale and they're not.
(02:36):
And for them, if you'rehomesteading, those are just
pets.
You have pets in your oversizedbackyard I got you and you're
having fun with that.
That's not functional.
Dawn Gorham (02:50):
They don't connect the dots on the functionality
that was kind of one of mytheories too, that maybe they
see us more as hobbyists.
That's because we act that wayBecause we make it fun.
Stephanie Tallent (03:02):
A lot of us do, and I think that's you know.
That's that's where we have totake a good long hard.
Look at our movement, what welook like, and you know you're
talking about the family youcame from.
10 acres, they were doinghomesteading and I also have
family members who did thosethings but they never called
themselves homesteaders.
Dawn Gorham (03:19):
Yeah, they didn't either, they were poor.
That's a good point.
Yeah, yeah, having a gardenmeant you were poor back in
those days.
Stephanie Tallent (03:27):
Yeah, well, you know if you had a garden and
you killed your own chickensand you did.
You know my great grandparentsand some of my grandparents were
sharecroppers and you know theydid so many of these things,
but they did it because they hadto.
It wasn't like they woke up oneday and said, oh, let me get
back to the land, let's makesure my kids are connected to
(03:48):
our food systems.
Let's go pay five times as muchper acre as anyone in any
previous generation ever had,and let's go do this.
And so I think there's just abig disconnect from you.
Know.
We view it as a worldview, aphilosophy, a movement.
There's deeper meaning andlayers to this for us.
(04:09):
And I think, for the previousgeneration who lived like this,
it was necessity.
It was not an idealistic way oflife, it was a necessary way of
life.
Dawn Gorham (04:18):
Yeah, and I sort of have encountered that attitude
as well.
I've been like my littleneighbor up the street.
I was talking about killingchickens and he was like I've
been there, done that, don'tever want to do that again, just
kind of that.
You know, we did it because wewere poor and we, you know, just
that kind of.
So I can't.
I kind of get it like theydon't want to go back to that
(04:39):
and it.
But for us I think it's more ofyou're right, it's not that we
have to do it, it's because wechoose to do it.
So I kind of understand maybe alittle bit of that.
But I also think they did us ahuge disservice by not handing
down a lot of those skills Againthey did it because they had to
(05:00):
.
Stephanie Tallent (05:01):
So when they didn't have to anymore and they
saw that their kids didn't haveto anymore and they bought into
the industrialized food system.
Dawn Gorham (05:09):
Like we can just go to the grocery store.
Stephanie Tallent (05:10):
Why would you do these hard things if you can
go to the grocery store andjust buy it with one ounce of
the effort, right?
Dawn Gorham (05:18):
And pennies on the dollar and they couldn't have
possibly have foreseen thedangers of the food system and
how bad it was going to get thehealth impacts.
Stephanie Tallent (05:29):
And that is the other side of this coin.
So many of people who have beenraised in farming communities.
They have been educatedmultiple generations deep at
this point by corporations.
Dawn Gorham (05:41):
So true corporations.
Stephanie Tallent (05:48):
They so true their legacy knowledge is, by
and large, how to do corporatefarming.
The benefits of corporatefarming, how to do more in
smaller spaces, how to run theeconomics tighter and tighter
because they have to um, andthat's just a completely
radically different frameworkthan what we are approaching
food from true, I think theyfocus more on the overall
efficiency, whereas we focusmore on self-sufficiency.
Dawn Gorham (06:11):
So, yeah, I think that's another point of
disconnect.
Stephanie Tallent (06:15):
It is.
Dawn Gorham (06:17):
Yeah, that's.
I mean, I agree and I do seethat.
And that is exactly the reasonthat I get when I run up against
the brick walls that I have,they just don't want to talk
about it.
It's painful, I really thinkit's painful for some of them,
but I just want the knowledge,just tell me, and they're like,
but I don't want to talk aboutit and I think they feel very
(06:40):
criticized and judged by thehomestead movement.
I agree with that.
Stephanie Tallent (06:45):
We come in with our city backgrounds.
Let's just be honest Our lackof common sense, our lack of
hands-on experience, and we sithere and say we read Joel
Salatin.
Dawn Gorham (06:56):
I heard him speak at this conference and he said
this is how we do chickens, andhe said we all have to have
chicken tractors.
Stephanie Tallent (07:04):
He said you never have to deworm your cows,
you just put preparation agentyou know all this stuff, and so
they hear this and they're likelisten, we've been doing this
for forever.
You want to kill livestock?
That's a good way to do it.
Like they don't, there is a bigdisconnect.
We come in with a lot ofarrogance, a lot of lack of
humility and a lot of the way wepresent ourselves online and in
person.
I mean, we run our mouths, wedon't approach.
Dawn Gorham (07:26):
I think it's because we get excited about it,
though I don't think it'sbecause we're trying to be rude.
I think we're just genuinelyexcited.
Stephanie Tallent (07:36):
Well, and we're trying to help each other
along because what we're doingis extremely hard.
Dawn Gorham (07:39):
We are climbing a mountain of we're having to
overcome our own ignorance, ourown lack of common sense.
I have a lot of lack of commonsense.
I get it, I know.
Stephanie Tallent (07:50):
Well, we haven't developed that intuitive
gut instincts that someonewho's been doing?
It for 20 years gets, and Ihave just been doing this long
enough.
I'm starting to get good commonsense instincts, just starting.
Dawn Gorham (07:57):
And.
Stephanie Tallent (07:57):
I can already tell myself, 20 years from now
we'll have so many goodinstincts that I did not have
when I started into this.
Yeah, now will have so manygood instincts that I did not
have when I started into this,but, yeah, I think they feel
criticized, like what they havebeen doing has not been good
enough.
We're coming in with a completelack of experience and we're
just telling them we're going todo it a different way and it's
going to work, and then we screwup.
(08:18):
I mean, the other kind of darkside of the homesteading
movement is a lot of us come invery idealistic, very ignorant
and we kill some animals becausewe're too stupid not to.
And really experienced farmershate that.
They hate to see.
You know, and one I've been inthe homesteading circles for 15
plus years now.
(08:38):
I was into West End Price stuffalmost 20 years ago, so you
know this whole thing.
I've been watching the lifecycles come and go and the
homesteading movement has a veryhigh attrition rate.
People bounce in.
Five years later it's gottenreal, it's gotten hard and they
bounce right back out again.
And you know that's objectively.
(09:00):
For people who are watchingthis, who are multiple
generations deep into what theydo and why they do it, and they
watch this little movement.
It's like boing, boing.
Oh, it got hard for you, oh,you lost animals and you're just
going to sell out and fold upand just say, nope, it was hard,
I'm done, it got real, turnsout.
I'm not cut out for this anyway.
And that goes back to themental resilience that we're
(09:28):
trying to build in ourselves andin our children and that we
weren't raised in that abilityto get up and keep going when
your favorite animal died orwhen just a bunch of crap hit
the fan all at once, which itdoes.
I mean there are days whenyou're just like why am I doing
this?
Dawn Gorham (09:41):
I know I miss the days when I could just sleep
whenever I wanted to, when Ilived in the city I didn't have
to get up and milk cows I wantedto sleep in.
I slept in A sick day.
Stephanie Tallent (09:51):
Yeah, I had a sick day.
Yes, Exactly.
Dawn Gorham (09:56):
Yeah, there's none of that for sure.
So yeah, I mean I do, I totallyunderstand that because my
family was poor.
So I do, you know, I dosympathize with that.
But it does make me a littlesad, though, that the perception
(10:17):
became that if you have yourlittle kitchen garden or your
chickens, or you hang yourclothes out to dry or whatever,
that that is a sign of poverty,and that part of it makes me sad
.
So I kind of hope that thateventually wanes its way out,
maybe a little bit, I don't know, I think I view it more as a
(10:38):
badge of resiliency of peoplewho have gone through.
Stephanie Tallent (10:41):
You know, look at the history.
People have overcome extremelyhard things and they have done
what they had to do to overcomethem and it turns out they
developed a lot of systems alongthe way that actually work.
Dawn Gorham (10:53):
Oh, absolutely that are actually sustainable.
Stephanie Tallent (10:56):
So when life gets hard, those are the systems
we circle back around to ohyeah, and society is starting to
get a little hard out there,right?
Dawn Gorham (11:03):
now I still like my automation, like I'm all about
some sprinklers on timers outhere that I can tell alexa to go
ahead and water my gardens.
Stephanie Tallent (11:11):
I mean internet to be able to research
things and learn and thecrowdsourcing that's available
at our fingertips because of allthe modern things that are
amazing.
But yeah, it's a.
It's a convergence of worldsand I think whenever that
happens, there aremisunderstandings, there are
perceptions.
We judge commercial farmers bythe lowest common denominator.
(11:33):
Example of factory farming.
And I think they judgehomesteaders by our lowest
common denominator trends.
And that is just what happenswhen you have two groups of
people looking at each otherfrom the outside in.
Dawn Gorham (11:47):
Do you think they judge us all by the main social
media influencers, like the oneswho you know?
It's come out over time thatthey're really not doing the
things that they say they'redoing.
I mean, I know it'sentertainment, like that's the
way that I look at it is some ofthose people are, whether
they're doing it or not.
I would much rather watchsomeone milking their cow and
(12:08):
how they feed them, and you knowthen some of the smut and crap
that we see on TV, absolutely.
So I mean, I'm not opposed tothat, but sometimes I think some
of that with the farmers is isis that as well?
They see all these social mediainfluencers and they know
they're not, because they knowif what they're doing works or
not, whereas we don'tnecessarily, until we try it and
(12:31):
fail.
So I think they see some ofthat and they're just like no.
Stephanie Tallent (12:36):
Yeah, they know.
And cosplaying, I mean thewhole cosplaying country, living
like when things became trendy,that's the pushback to it.
It's like no, I don't look likethat, sound like that, or you
know, there's nothing aestheticabout my nitty-gritty reality
farming life.
Dawn Gorham (12:53):
And for you to do it in a make it so glamorous
white linen dress as you pickdaisies along the way with like
high quality cameras capturingyour every move, with the sunset
and your hair blowing in thewind, as you're walking across
the field with your cow's leadover your shoulder and there's
nothing wrong with having funwith that Right, right, but when
(13:15):
?
Stephanie Tallent (13:15):
that becomes the perception of reality.
That's when we have a bigproblem and there's a breakdown
there.
I think that's probably true.
Dawn Gorham (13:22):
Do you think also that they get a little bit
irritated by the difference inour regulations?
Like them there I feel likeindustrial farmers and
commercial farmers are so muchmore highly regulated than we
are, and I think sometimesthat's another point of
animosity is where, because wetend to sell directly to
customers like we and we don'thave because we're such smaller
(13:45):
scale, we don't have so muchregulation, and I think
sometimes that's a point ofcontingency too they just kind
of get irritated by the factthat we're not constantly
overseeing and tested and youknow doing all the things,
especially like us, me and youwith raw milk.
Yeah mean I know some dairyfarmers that are not raw milk
farmers that cannot stand mebecause of that.
Stephanie Tallent (14:09):
There's concerns and again I think I
mentioned my grandparents had afamily raw dairy.
Oh, theirs was raw, but it wasbig.
Well, when they milked it, itwas raw, it was not big.
I think they ran like 30, 35 ata time.
To me that's big yeah, but itwas still a small scale for a
commercial dairy, but I thinkyou know when they live it and
(14:29):
when they see it and when theyhave stories of people getting
sick from milk that hasn't beenhandled correctly or whatever,
it's not hypothetical to them.
They you know this is very real.
They've seen what a really badcase of mastitis or what
cross-contamination can do andall these things that are just
very, very real to them.
It's not, they're not playingaround, they're not messing
(14:50):
around.
They're like this you knowsystems, fail-safes, exist to
protect against those things,and so for them they're like why
are you bailing on a systemthat's basically redundant?
You know all this oversight isfor safety.
Why are you opting out ofsafety?
And it's like well, becauseyou're not making enough money
to keep your doors open Numberone and number two, the health I
(15:14):
mean for them and that also.
I think we're bumping up againsta lot of things where, for us,
the health benefits and what weunderstand and what we believe
to be true about what we'reconsuming and what we're
generating, they believe theirend product is safer and just as
nutritious.
So there's some head-buttingthat's going to come out of that
(15:36):
.
But the hilarious thing to meis, if you talk to dairy farmers
like my family drank the rawmilk straight out of the tank
they all did, but they wouldn'tsell it to anybody else.
the tank they all did and every,but they wouldn't sell it to
anybody else.
They would never sell it toanyone else and they would all
say oh no, no one should ever dothat and I will talk to.
I've talked to regular dairyfarmers now and they're like oh
(15:57):
yeah, well, we drink out of thetank, but that's not what anyone
else should be doing, becauseour you know, our bodies are
used to it, our microbiome, andthere's some legitimacy to that.
They are oh, yeah, absolutelylegitimacy to that, but it just
kind of cracks me up.
It's like oh so you're going toget the benefits of your, but
you're going to be scared todeath to let the general public
touch that with a 10 foot pole.
Dawn Gorham (16:18):
Yeah, and I think they've been so like ingrained
with that whole idea of raw milkyou know, being dangerous it's
just been so preached into them,you know, just ingrained.
And I think they don'tunderstand that the way that we
handle raw milk on our you know,me and you and other dairy, raw
dairy farmers, that we handleit so much differently, like
(16:40):
it's handled from point a topoint b, for the point of you
know, for the point of humanconsumption, like that's why we
handle it the way we handle it.
And my stepdad is a, was a big,not Hereford, he was a dairy
farmer, he had the big farm.
What are the big ones?
Oh, I can't think Holsteins.
Holsteins he had.
Stephanie Tallent (17:00):
Holsteins.
Dawn Gorham (17:00):
And he sold his.
You know, they came with thetruck and they got his milk and
all that stuff.
And when I first started doingraw milk, like he wore me out.
He wore me out and it took meforever to get him to understand
.
I don't handle it the way thathe handled it.
That's right.
Like you know, mine goes in thefreezer.
It gets chilled really quickly.
You know every point is not non, you know no contamination, and
(17:25):
so I think like he really hadto overcome that, like he really
had to break his mentality ofhow he did things.
So, yeah, I think that I thinkthe whole regulatory part of it.
Stephanie Tallent (17:40):
It is and they're overhead.
I mean every step of what theydo is so micromanaged.
I mean what they can take tothe sale barn and on the beef
side of things they live and dieabout the sale barn prices.
So for any of us that haveopted out and gone direct to
consumer but you see more andmore farmers doing that now More
beef farmers are doing that alot Because they have to do that
(18:01):
and you know the demand isthere.
So I think the stigma aroundthat is slowly starting to break
down.
Dawn Gorham (18:07):
I feel like the stigma around raw milk is
starting to as well.
I really do, because justjudging by my waiting list, I
mean I've got a waiting list ofabout 80 people and you know, 10
years ago I never could haveimagined that.
And it's all ages, you know.
It's older people, youngerpeople, middle-aged people, and
(18:27):
that really surprises me becauseI always ask you know, how did
you find me?
How old are you?
Where do you live?
You know all that kind of stuff.
So I'm hoping that over timeand the more and more people who
really work hard to have saferaw milk, I think that will
eventually work in our favor, doyou?
Stephanie Tallent (18:45):
find that you were their first contact with
raw milk.
Like, have they had experiencewith raw milk prior to coming to
you or are you kind of likethey've learned a little bit
about it?
They know that this issomething they want to do and
you're kind of their firstexperience with it?
Dawn Gorham (18:59):
I've had both something they want to do and,
you're kind of, their firstexperience with it.
I've had both, like I've hadsome.
Some of my customers or some ofmy waitlist people have moved
here from other states where rawmilk is very available, like
California, surprisingly enough,shockingly Shocking, yeah, but
you know raw milk is a big thingout there.
So a lot of the Californiapeople will get on the
rawmilkcom and that's generallyhow they find me.
(19:20):
But then some of them arepeople who are just starting to
go to naturopaths, starting togo to functional medicine
doctors, and those doctors arestarting to recommend, if they
have a sensitivity, to try rawmilk.
So they end up contacting mesaying, hey, can I try it?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's one of thosethings that once you've
experienced contacting me saying, hey, can I try it?
(19:40):
And yeah, absolutely.
You know so.
Stephanie Tallent (19:41):
I think it's one of those things that, once
you've experienced it foryourself, you get very motivated
to continue to pursueAbsolutely, Absolutely.
Dawn Gorham (19:48):
That's why how I ended up with my own cows.
Stephanie Tallent (19:51):
I didn't want to be without it.
Dawn Gorham (19:52):
I mean, it was like you know.
Stephanie Tallent (19:53):
So so yeah, and the ability to quality
control myself.
Dawn Gorham (20:02):
Yes, absolutely, you know exactly how it's, yeah,
how it's handled from start tofinish.
Yeah, yeah, let's see.
We talked about publicperception that was another note
that I had, but I think thatkind of fell under the whole
social media thing and I thinkwe talked a little bit about
methods.
Stephanie Tallent (20:19):
I think there is a lot of breakdown with
methods.
But even in the homesteadingcommunity we have a lot of
different.
I slant more towards natural,herbal as sustainable as
possible.
And then there are somehomesteaders who have every
single prescription and orover-the-counter medication and
dewormer known to man.
Dawn Gorham (20:38):
And do it like clockwork.
Stephanie Tallent (20:39):
They are very mainstream in their management
practices while beingsustainable from their land, and
so you know, the ideologieswithin the homestead movement
are very diverse.
Yeah, but I do think that wegenerally are perceived to be
more crunchy.
See, there's some overlap, likethere's overlap.
(21:01):
There's a lot of weird thingsabout the homestead movement,
like if you look at it through aVenn diagram, you have a lot of
holistic crunchy overlap.
What does crunchy mean?
Dawn Gorham (21:09):
Can you define crunchy for me?
Because I see that all the timeon social media.
What is crunchy, I mean, areyou?
Stephanie Tallent (21:15):
I think it goes back to like in the 70s,
when people were doing crunchygranola and you were like it
when you started eating healthy,like the granola, the, the
crunchy vegan granola, and sothey were kind of that's where
the term kind of got coined from.
So if you kind of start goingtowards the more natural bent in
life, you're kind of bendingtowards crunchy and then you
know crunchy has been kind ofreplaced with more holistic or
(21:37):
I'm into organic lifestyle.
Dawn Gorham (21:39):
I like the word holistic better than crunchy I
do too Sounds dirty.
Stephanie Tallent (21:44):
But you know of the Venn diagram you've got a
lot of homeschool.
You've got a lot of homeschooloverlap in the homestead
community and that's anotherweird standalone sort of a thing
.
So the homesteading communityhas a lot of.
You got your preppers who verystrongly overlap into the
homesteading community andthat's their own thing as well
but, there's a lot of overlapwith the homesteading movement.
(22:05):
Um, I just think it's.
Dawn Gorham (22:07):
It is a movement in which there's a lot of weird
things connected to andoverlapped with, all of which
would make a conventionalfarmer's eyebrows shoot straight
up I could see that because wetend to opt out of systems, like
we want to opt out of thehealthcare system, out of the
transportation system, out ofthe education system, out of the
you know, the commercial foodsystem, like we want out of all
(22:30):
of it, and when you opt out ofone and you deal with, like the
whole cultural shift withinyourself and within your
relationships and your familyand your friends and your
community.
Stephanie Tallent (22:40):
It gets 10 times easier to opt out of the
next one.
Like the stigma doesn't stingas much and then you get, and
you get more educated about itand you get more confident like,
oh, I can actually do this andoh, it's actually better when I
opt out.
Dawn Gorham (22:54):
Right.
Well, I feel like there's lesscontrol.
I mean more more personalcontrol, less control by other
people over me when I opt out ofsystems like that Cause I feel
like when I was in theconventional medical system,
before I started doing directprimary care and functional
medicine, I felt like they toldme what I was going to do,
instead of asking me how I feltabout it or what you know, what
(23:17):
a treatment plan I would want,or you know, they just they were
very judgy if I pushed backagainst anything that they told
me I was going to do.
So I feel like and now, youknow, with functional medicine,
you know they want to know.
How do you feel about this?
What do you know?
Because you're you know, youknow yourself better than I do
and you know your childrenbetter than I do, and and I
(23:41):
think there's a lot of freedomin that, and it's the same way
with the food system, like youknow, like when I butcher my
chickens, I know, from the daythey came here to the day they
go to that cone, what they'vehad, and I just you know, you
see so much stuff on socialmedia and the internet and stuff
about all of the differentlaboratory things that they're
wanting to come out with, and Ithink a lot of the homesteaders
(24:05):
are just terrified Like we aregenuinely terrified of what is
coming down the pike, because itjust seems to get worse and
worse.
Stephanie Tallent (24:13):
It is about control, and it is about
controlling numbers andcontrolling populations, and so
when you are in these systems,you're not viewed as an
individual, you're not a.
Dawn Gorham (24:24):
You're not you're not a consumer.
Stephanie Tallent (24:26):
You are a consumer, you are a taxpayer,
you are a member of XYZcommunities.
And these are all boxes, theseare all census boxes and you
know dollar boxes and these areall boxes to be ticked.
And when you opt out you becomevery individual care oriented,
like you said, with the medicalsystem, my individual nutrition,
(24:46):
my individual medical care,personal responsibility it is,
and my, my individualeducational journey and my
individual, just all of thesethings become extremely
customized which can look veryeclectic from the outside and
can look very even unpredictablefrom the outside.
And so you opt out of the boxesLike it's just literally saying
no, I don't fit into theseboxes anymore.
(25:08):
No, thank you.
Dawn Gorham (25:09):
Yes, yes, very much .
So I agree with that.
I wonder.
So I wonder if maybe justhaving how would you have that
conversation?
Like if I'm wanting to go talkto my neighbor and say, look,
tell me why you feel the waythat you feel about what I'm
doing, because he literallymakes fun of me to my face.
Stephanie Tallent (25:28):
He doesn't hold back, like literally makes
fun of me but also farmers dothat to each other that's true,
that is actually true.
Dawn Gorham (25:36):
Very good point, like I, hear these little guys
at the auctions they're going atit.
Stephanie Tallent (25:40):
Nobody criticizes each other, nor rips
each other apart quicker orfaster than farmers Like they
are, you know, and they'll dothat all day long.
They will make fun of each otherall day long They'll be like oh
, so-and-so, always does thisand this, this guy always
looking poor about winterbecause he doesn't do this.
You'll hear this all the time.
But then, like when push comesI mean like someone's barn burns
(26:01):
down or a tragedy actuallyhappens they are also the
quickest.
They've got each other's backsin a heartbeat.
So some of it is we just got togrow thicker skin.
That's true If we want to havethese conversations with them,
because they will hurt yourfeelings and they will laugh
while they do it.
Dawn Gorham (26:15):
Yeah, he does.
Stephanie Tallent (26:25):
I promise he does, yeah, and the other thing
is we got to get.
I mean, I have had a couple ofconversations with these guys
and they have hurt my feelingsand I have felt a little
defensive as I hear the feedbackon what doesn't make sense and
I think this is something that Itook to heart in my own journey
and I try to pass it along toother homesteaders as well is,
when you get into this one, getmentally prepared.
(26:46):
You will mess up and an animalwill die.
Just go ahead and mentally.
Dawn Gorham (26:51):
And that is hard.
It is yes.
Stephanie Tallent (26:53):
Nobody wants to talk about that and nobody
wants to accept that I mean, inone year's time, four family
milk cows that I knew in oneyear's time all died from mostly
(27:14):
nutritional slash, preventableissues that were owner ignorance
leading to neglect problems.
When that is seen from theoutside in, I mean, you know,
who we also should be talking tois vets, veterinarians.
Because homesteaders are tight.
We're trying to get our land,we're trying to get this going.
It's all expensive.
Our learning curve is expensive.
To go to our little conferencesis expensive.
To buy our little tutorialsfrom each other is expensive,
(27:35):
like there's nothing that we'redoing that's not expensive and
we're all having to do this allup front.
So to sit here and try tobudget for vet costs or anything
that's an extra.
We don't do that.
We don't get into it preparedto do that.
So a lot of times allveterinarians see is them coming
on the tail end of a really badsituation.
That was 100% preventable.
(27:55):
Yeah, had we gotten theminvolved earlier.
And or had we been humbleenough to go get our feelings
hurt from someone withexperience earlier on?
And so those are two thingsI've really taken to heart,
because I think our ignorance isexacting a pretty high price.
But those of us who pay thatprice stick it out.
Dawn Gorham (28:17):
Don't bounce around that.
Stephanie Tallent (28:19):
Three to five year mark and dig in deeper and
get up on those hard days.
It's very worth it.
I don't in any way diminish thevalue of this as I say it Right
.
Yeah, I agree, but it's justthe hard stuff and it's the
stuff that gets judged reallyharshly from the outside in.
Dawn Gorham (28:36):
Yeah, Especially by people who I think a lot of the
city folks.
Really they enjoy watching it,Like they enjoy knowing what
you're doing but at the sametime they're kind of like Well,
but it's entertainment value.
Stephanie Tallent (28:49):
Yeah, it's totally entertainment for them.
It's free entertainment forthem.
Dawn Gorham (28:52):
Yes, but yeah, I think you're right.
I think a lot of them, becauseI mean I've had the same issues.
You know, I had Tara go down acouple of years ago and I didn't
know what to do.
Luckily, I do have a great vetand we have Tommy you know I can
always ask Tommy anything.
Stephanie Tallent (29:09):
I love him.
Dawn Gorham (29:10):
Me too.
I talk about him on all mypodcasts.
He gets tickled, but you know,and last year I lost 40 chickens
in one day.
We were in the chicken tractors.
We went to Chase's school forthe open house it was in August
and I didn't think about it andI turned the chicken tractors
facing the west where the sunwas coming in and I didn't think
(29:32):
, and they all piled up in theback and what happened?
They smothered each other andthey were like two weeks before
processing and we came home andit looked like a massacre had
happened.
But that was totally my error,like totally me, um, but I, you
know, but I picked myself, Icried and carried on, you know,
and worried about the, the lostmoney and the lost chickens,
(29:54):
obviously, um, but you know, Ipicked myself up from it and I
learned from it and I will neverturn those chicken tractors
towards the west ever again andI will never process chickens in
the summer ever again If Ican't get them delivered in
March and process them in May orOctober, then I'm not doing it.
Stephanie Tallent (30:12):
So but you know, but I learned from it, you
know, and that's the thing likewe have to be prepared to learn
from this to get kicked in theteeth, get up and keep going.
And, honestly, that resilienceof like go down, get up and keep
going.
That's where you start seeingthese farmers go.
Okay, you've got.
You've got what?
It takes Because they've alldone it Like I mean my.
(30:35):
My granddad said if you ownlivestock you're going to own
dead stock at some point.
Dawn Gorham (30:40):
And it's like it's true, that's true, that's just a
truth.
Stephanie Tallent (30:43):
And it doesn't matter how good you are
at what you do.
If you own livestock, at somepoint they're going to be dead
stock.
But getting through that andnot letting it completely derail
what you're doing.
Dawn Gorham (30:55):
I agree, so maybe communicating and having a
conversation with them, tryingto make them understand.
I feel like I've done that,though, and it didn't work and
learning from them.
Stephanie Tallent (31:08):
I ask questions like what do you do
for parasite management?
What's your protocol?
And just leave it and let themanswer, and just leave it and
let them answer, and I've alwayslearned something from that
question.
I may not do what they're doing, but I have always learned
something.
Right and they'll say oh, thisis a big problem now.
It wasn't my whole life, but itis now.
(31:29):
This is resistant to that.
Now, okay, we know that now andI'm like okay, I didn't know
that before.
And even though I'm not usingusing those same management
practices, that's where theirknowledge is invaluable to us.
Dawn Gorham (31:41):
Yes, very much so.
Stephanie Tallent (31:42):
The other.
Oh, this was another gap that Ihad thought about mentioning is
so when we listen to a podcastlike there's one from Out West,
I love her, jill.
Jill Winger yes, she's amazing.
Her climate and theirenvironment is so radically
different.
Yes, very From what we have here.
If I were to have her write outthis is what I do and this is
(32:04):
how I do it, and this is Verylittle of that day-in to day-out
management would be applicableto me here in the South and when
someone who has these reallylush pastures of up north or
they have like a foot and a halfof black topsoil and their
pastures are a certain thing,what they do, I cannot do
(32:25):
because we have terrible soil.
We have to work so hard at justbuilding it up to basic
nutritional value.
And when someone out West istalking about oh, I feed this
hay, I just have this grass-fedcow hay.
Dawn Gorham (32:45):
I just had this grass fed cow.
Stephanie Tallent (32:45):
Well, their hay protein count is so much
higher than what the cheap hayhere is, and so you know a bale
of hay is not equivalent to abale of hay somewhere else.
But I think when we, when weall first get into this, we're
just trying to glean knowledgefrom anyone we can, we're
learning.
Dawn Gorham (32:56):
We think hay is hay .
Stephanie Tallent (32:57):
We think hay is hay, because to us it is.
When you don't know better,that's what you think and you
get into this and we listen.
We listen to all the OGs that welisten to and who have paved
the way 30 years ago or 20 yearsago or 15 years ago and we're
gleaning from them.
But I think we're not reallychecking ourselves to go,
because I know I forget what itwas.
(33:19):
But one time I told, I told himI was, oh, I'm going to do this
, and he laughed.
And he laughed and he said,well, get, get back with me and
let me know how that goes.
Dawn Gorham (33:26):
And it turns out.
Oh, I hate it when they saythat.
Stephanie Tallent (33:28):
You can't do that in our area, Like our
weather patterns, like whateverit was I was going to do.
Dawn Gorham (33:32):
It doesn't work here you can do that in other
places people.
Stephanie Tallent (33:44):
It doesn't work here, and so getting that
regional specific knowledge likewhat we have to do for parasite
management is so aggressivecompared to what other places do
, and just things like that therecovery time of our pastures is
so much faster than they havein other places we don't
necessarily have to let themhave the rest period if we're
doing rotational, just thingslike that that are so unique to
our little region of the worldthat we have to let them have
the rest period if we're doingrotational, just things like
(34:04):
that that are so unique to ourlittle region of the world that
we have to learn from people whoare here doing it, doing it
here in our climate, and that'swhere I feel like getting these
conversations with these farmerswho've been doing this forever
is so helpful.
Dawn Gorham (34:15):
Let me ask you this Do you think it's better to ask
them how they do it now than totry to glean from them what
they did in the old days?
Because a lot of my questionsare because I want to know how
to do it the hard way, so thatif the easy way is no longer
accessible, I can do it the hardway.
And they don't want to answerthose questions.
(34:36):
But I wonder, if I ask them OK,what are you doing now?
Yeah, and then I like to ask.
Stephanie Tallent (34:41):
so you said your granddaddy had this farm
too, right?
Well, how did he do it when hedid it?
And then they're thinking oh,that's right, how did granddaddy
do?
Dawn Gorham (34:48):
it.
Oh, let's talk about granddaddy.
They like to talk aboutgranddaddy, they do.
Stephanie Tallent (34:56):
That makes sense and that's where you, the
primary dewormer, that get outare you serious?
serious?
That's how the south dewormedall their animals for forever
and ever, and themselves.
That's why tobacco was such anintegral part of the south.
But I did not know that.
Well, you don't hear thatunless you hear them, and you
and they'll say, well, yeah, andthat they'd grow.
You know a row of tobacco backhere, hang it up in the barn,
and then they would use it sothey feed it to the animals,
(35:19):
just with their feed, theirsilage, and mix it.
Dawn Gorham (35:22):
See, I still don't understand silage like I know
that's ridiculous because I, Ifeed hay and I feed a little bit
of grain and I feed alfalfapellets, right I, and I don't
have the pasture to be able togo grow something and cut it as
sorghum silage or whatever.
But I hear some old farmerstalking about, oh, I had these
cows and they'd ball for thatsilage and I'm like, okay, what,
(35:45):
tell me, what is silage like?
What fermented?
It's just where they pile it onand I kind of had that general
idea.
But is it just piled it on topof each other and let it ferment
in a?
Stephanie Tallent (35:57):
in a pit, or us from west, any price circles.
We, we basically know how easyit is to ferment vegetables and
you can do it in so manydifferent ways and it's just
fermented and it's like youfollow these basic guidelines
and you wind up with a fermentedend product which is probiotic
rich, enzyme rich.
The nutritional value has beenunlocked on levels that it
wasn't before in its fresh form.
(36:18):
Same exact principles applywith silage that is so cool.
Dawn Gorham (36:23):
I wish I had pasture to do that I wish I did
too.
Stephanie Tallent (36:26):
And the old timers used to dig these pits
that they call silage pits, like, and they just pile all their
green, like just green mixtureof stuff, and they kind of knew
how much like corn stalks yeahwhat the ratio, corn stalks and
all that stuff, and each of themwould have their own recipe
kind of dialed in like this isthe way, and some of them would
put a little sweetener on thereto jump start it or whatever,
(36:47):
but then cover it up.
And this is where it gets hardfor me, because you can ruin a
batch of silage and kill youranimals with a spoiled batch of
silage.
But they could tell from thesmell.
So when I talk to these oldguys who've done it, they're
like well, you can tell thedifference in the smell.
And then I've caught myselftelling people that with
ferments I'm like well, you cantell something's off with a good
ferment, like it should havethat particular nice, clean,
(37:08):
fermented smell.
And then they look at me withthe same look that I'm giving
them.
Dawn Gorham (37:11):
Because they have never smelled the smell.
Stephanie Tallent (37:13):
Right, and I have never smelled the smell of
don't know that.
I'd pick up on that.
Dawn Gorham (37:19):
Yeah, I get it.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
Stephanie Tallent (37:23):
That's right.
Dawn Gorham (37:26):
But that's one of my gaps, that I would love to.
But I think that's one of thosethings where their experience
is just so valuable and I wanttheir knowledge, I want their
input, I want to know all of thethings.
I think we just got to grow athicker skin, take a little more
(37:53):
time and be willing to hearthings we don't want to hear.
I don't like them.
I'm just teasing.
I know I can take it.
I can take it a lot better thanI pretend like I can.
Yeah, yeah, they, they, theytry to be a little gentle on me,
although they, you can tell.
You can tell they're making funof me.
They're going to do that.
Stephanie Tallent (38:03):
I mean, like I say it's part of their culture
.
I think they just they do it toeach other.
That's just.
That's just part of their,probably part of their, coping
mechanisms.
Life is hard, I mean it's hard.
Farming is hard.
You throw the jobs off the farm, because I mean, these days, if
I talk to a conventional farmer, there's not a single one that
I have talked to, but that isall they do.
They either work off the farm,or their spouse works off the
(38:26):
farm, or they both work off thefarm, and then they farm on top
of that.
It's an extremely hard andtaxing lifestyle.
Dawn Gorham (38:34):
Yeah, I don't know how I did it, like I don't know
how, and I didn't even do it onthat scale, but I don't know how
I did go into the office like Idid and then coming home and
canning until one or two o'clockin the morning, and even when I
was milking, and then goinginto the office getting up at
four or three, I don't know howI did it.
And now, because now I feellike there's still none of hours
a day and I'm here all day,there's not.
(38:54):
So, yeah, I totally get that.
There was something else I wasthinking I was going to bring up
and I can't remember what itwas.
Oh, I know what it was.
One of the other things thatthey kind of make fun of me for
and get irritated at me about isthe fact that I don't milk
twice a day.
Stephanie Tallent (39:12):
That's a big one.
Dawn Gorham (39:13):
They get.
So like what do you mean?
You don't milk twice a day.
Stephanie Tallent (39:16):
It causes a literal error code to pop up
especially in the dairy guys.
They're like what do you mean?
That's cruel, that's inhumane,you're ruining her udder.
Yes, and this is where I try totread lightly, because these
are all men that I've had thisconversation with and they've
never breastfed themselves, so Ican't exactly get too personal
(39:37):
with this.
So when I say, well, it is asupply and demand kind of
situation, Right as you back off, they make less.
Yeah, the body adjusts andcalibrates.
Dawn Gorham (39:47):
But they dry them off.
So they totally understand thatthat happens at the end.
And again, I think that'sefficiency maybe.
Stephanie Tallent (40:04):
Maybe they come back to in their head
you're letting milk go that youcould be making and it's a waste
.
Yes, so the waste of the wasteof the system being that way is
also another sticking point forthem.
One they're concerned for thehealth of the animal, right.
Two, why would you throw awaydouble your milk, right, almost
double, not gonna say, because Idon't a third more.
Why would you throw it?
Why would you just flush athird more down?
The toilet could let likeyou're too lazy to milk twice a
day.
You know that's.
That's the kind of dynamic butthe answer is yes.
(40:25):
I am, but I do it for thehealth of my cow.
I don't.
And that's the other disconnectthat happens.
I'm not feeding for maximumproduction.
I'm not pushing that cow to thevery limits of what her
capability is I either.
Yes, I want her to have reserves.
I don't want to be operating onthe razor's edge of no reserves
(40:47):
, like they have to do inproduction dairy dynamics.
Dawn Gorham (40:50):
I want my girl to have reserves.
Stephanie Tallent (40:52):
I want to have reserves.
We're not going to operatewithout margins if I can help it
, like if I can possibly help it, and that just goes back to I'm
philosophically approachingthis from a different framework
than they are.
Dawn Gorham (41:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that's probably the bigthing with that, and it's also
that same thing with calfsharing, because they're, you
know, all of them pull thecalves day one and either sell
them off or bottle feed them amilk replacer or whatever, and
they can't grasp the whole ideaof leaving the calf with the mom
(41:25):
for six months or however longyou choose to do it.
Stephanie Tallent (41:27):
You know the SEC counts do go higher because
that sphincter's opened upmultiple times a day with a calf
on them, but in a well-managedand you hear the horror stories
and I'm sure we're in some ofthe same groups where people
post the horror stories thecalves ripping up teeth and all
this stuff, and I'm sure we'rein some of the same groups where
people post the horror stories.
Oh yeah, the calves ripping up,you know, teeth and all this
stuff, and I'm like, well, we'renot.
You know, I've always turned topeople when I talk about calf
sharing.
(41:48):
I'm not saying I'm throwingthis cow out in the field and
I'm never touching her orlooking at her again.
And the next time I look at hershe's got raging mastitis and
torn up teeth.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Right, she's still coming in,she's getting babied, she's
getting fed her stuff.
We're milking her out.
Her udder health is beingchecked daily.
If that calf is rough on her, wedo not let calves be rough on
(42:11):
udders Like this is a verysupervised, well managed,
dynamic and not every cow cancalf share.
It's not good for every cow.
It's been really good for meand I love preserving those
maternal instincts in thesedairy animals that it's becoming
scarcer and harder and harderto find.
Right, because I really feellike we are the last reserve of
people who care about maternalinstincts in the entire dairy
(42:33):
world, the world period.
Humans included yes, it's thoseof us opting out of this
disconnect from birth mindsetand saying no.
Let's keep these instinctsalive.
These are good instincts, weneed them.
Dawn Gorham (42:48):
Yeah, and females across the board yeah, I agree.
Stephanie Tallent (42:52):
Yeah, you're right, that goes for everything.
That goes for all the animalson my farm.
Dawn Gorham (42:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, is there anything elsethat has been on your mind with
this?
I think that was pretty muchall my notes.
I mean, the only other thing wetalked about, the market
competition a little bit, andthe direct consumer, I think
that's again.
I think they feel like we're acompetition to them and I agree
(43:18):
that.
I think I agree with you.
I think the number one thingnow that we have talked about
this is probably they feeljudged because we put so much um
emphasis on organic and non-gmo.
Stephanie Tallent (43:34):
And boy, you bring up non-gmo and organic and
they just scenes, or vaccines,they, or vaccines, or vaccines.
They lose their minds.
That's a topic that isextremely volatile in the animal
community.
Dawn Gorham (43:45):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know why the, I guess the
GMO thing they it made them moreefficient and made things
easier for them with the, youknow, with the pesticides and
whatnot.
So I mean, I understand thatthey don't want that to go away,
but I also think they'reburying their head in the sand
(44:08):
when it comes to the dangers youknow.
Stephanie Tallent (44:13):
I think it is that thing where when you hear
them talking amongst themselvesand again, I've been in those
conversations just because ofthe culture I'm from in Georgia
you hear those conversations.
They know it's not sustainable,they know they're not getting
paid enough for living wage, butthey also know that they are
the last stop.
They know they're feedingAmerica because of the way that
(44:35):
they're farming and so in theirminds, like if we stop doing
this, if we all, just people aregoing to starve.
People are going to starve.
People are going to starvebecause that's how the math
looks on paper right now whenyou run it, and so that is very
difficult.
You know, when we criticizethis, I don't feel like we're
really adequately conveying,like, I mean, the sad truth is
(44:58):
we need the industrial complexat this point in time.
We do.
Dawn Gorham (45:00):
Yeah, we're not there yet.
Stephanie Tallent (45:01):
The sad truth is, we need the industrial
complex at this point in time.
We do.
Yeah, we're not there yet.
As our society exists currently, it can't go away or people
will starve, and I think that'sthe ground they stand on.
It's like, okay, you're sayingthat we shouldn't do this this
way, but what's your plan B?
What's?
Dawn Gorham (45:16):
you going to do?
What's everybody going to do?
Stephanie Tallent (45:18):
Yeah, because we all rely on this, and that's
right, and I can't grow wheat,like I mean you know, my cows
still have to eat and I don'thave 10 acres of corn either.
Dawn Gorham (45:28):
So I mean I do agree that, I mean they are very
necessary at this point.
Stephanie Tallent (45:34):
Well, and if we go back those generations,
like we were talking about, ourfamilies come from.
We know our poor family thatlived the way that they do in a
lot of things we're doing now.
They killed squirrels andpossums and they ate them.
Dawn Gorham (45:46):
Raccoons and raccoons.
We called it Spanish chicken.
Stephanie Tallent (45:49):
That's right, but they didn't do it because
they preferred that over beef.
Right, it was a necessity, theydid it because they were hungry
and they were not going to haveprotein if they didn't do it
and I think that's just areminder you know that was pre
this industrial food complexbecoming what it's becoming, and
you don't hear about peopleeating those animals anymore,
(46:10):
because they're not animals, notif I can help it, not if you
can help it.
And so that's where I think wehave to get very real with what
the industrial food complex hasgiven us, and when we say, oh,
we're going to take that away,well, let's look back at what
the food landscape actuallylooked like before it existed.
And then we've just got tothink through some of that, and
those are conversations to have.
And just the last point I wantto make was let's just keep
(46:34):
breaking down thesecommunication barriers, because
we need them.
This is not an us versus them.
This is a cultural and perhapsknowledge-based disconnect, but
that makes sense.
We desperately need them and Idon't know that they need us or
if they know that they need us,but we very much need them and
very much appreciate them andwhat they do.
Dawn Gorham (46:54):
I think they're going to need us as they age,
more work towards our local, youknow, feeding our local
community and, like you know, myneighbor across the street has
a greenhouse and people down theway have you know different
things that I don't grow,animals that I don't raise, but
I do think that if the timecomes that that industrial food
(47:17):
system breaks down, it's gettingsome pretty substantial cracks
here and there, and I thinkCOVID was a great illustration
of when a stressor is put onthis already strained system.
Stephanie Tallent (47:28):
I think we got a first front row seat.
Dawn Gorham (47:30):
Yeah, because you're trucking it across the
country as opposed to goingacross the street and you know,
getting squashed from yourneighbor across the street or
whatever.
And I think you know.
And what if a, what if a globalemergency actually happens?
What?
Stephanie Tallent (47:44):
if the power goes out, what?
Dawn Gorham (47:47):
When, when, yeah, I mean, I know it's coming.
I try to be more optimistic,though I try to not.
Stephanie Tallent (47:53):
Well, when we look at history, I mean this is
what history teaches us.
History repeats itself.
Absolutely, it's coming.
National and global eventshappen, whether it's a natural
disaster.
I think all of us who were inthis region during 2010, during
the flood of 2010, we allsurvived that.
I think that was again a frontrow seat when you don't have a
road to get out of, when you arestuck here when you have just
(48:16):
basic infrastructures, like youcan't shower because your water
is so contaminated for threeweeks straight, before you even
get just so many things that welive through here.
I think we don't know what it'sgoing to be Like.
It can be natural, it can besocietal, it can be, you know,
war, pandemic, plagues, family,right All of the things, yes, I
mean go back to the beginning oftime, and these are the things
(48:38):
that happen in the human, in thehuman experience.
So, knowing that that's what wehave to go, it's like, well,
what is it going to be?
And it's not evenfear-mongering, it's not being
afraid, it's just being veryfactual, like okay, and being
prepared.
Dawn Gorham (48:50):
I think it's personal responsibility to be
prepared for emergencies, likeeven the government tells you.
You know we have september, wegot preparedness month, you know
.
I mean when even they'rewilling to admit it on a small
scale.
You know you need to kind of doit on a big scale because our
power, we know that our powergrid is our major vulnerability,
(49:11):
we know that cyber attacks areour major communications All of
that stuff is a hugevulnerability that our enemies
can extort or you know they canhit us on those things and if
they ever want to.
Stephanie Tallent (49:28):
Or just even our own supply chains break down
so they can't be maintenancedand updated and kept up to the
manner in which we areaccustomed.
Right, exactly, I mean, itdoesn't even have to be a
catastrophic could be acatastrophic thing, but it
doesn't even have to be thatcatastrophic.
Could be a catastrophic thing,but it doesn't even have to be
that.
Dawn Gorham (49:46):
It can just be major.
This went down.
Stephanie Tallent (49:47):
Overload part isn't available, it's got to be
shipped over from overseas.
And the shipping, so manythings can happen and that's the
reality that I I live in.
That reality but I think thatgoes back to that venn diagram
overlap between the prepperawareness mindset.
That overlaps with thehomesteader world, yes, and that
(50:07):
heightened sense of personalresponsibility.
But you know, I can't.
Dawn Gorham (50:10):
That's ingrained into me because that is what I
spent a lot of time with mygrandparents because my, you
know, my mom worked all the time, so I spent and my grandmother
babysat me, so I was there allsummer, there during the school
year weekends, rode the bus toher house, but that was always
her thing and that was how shelived, was it was summer, was
(50:33):
preparing for winter and theyhad the well water and they
didn't necessarily have backuppower but they had hand crank
they could get the water if theyneeded to.
And that was.
That has always been part of mymind, that you spend your good
times preparing for the, for thehard times.
And when I moved to Nashville,I was sort of shocked to when I
(50:56):
realized that, you know, thepeople in my little suburban
neighborhood didn't even haveenough food to last for two days
, right, like.
They didn't know how to can Alot of things they'd never even
heard of when it come to foodpreservation.
Didn't know you could do Like,didn't know you could make your
own bread, didn't know that youcould make pickles at home, you
know, and I'm like, what do youmean?
(51:16):
What so, yeah, what so yeah, Imean I, it's part of I think
it's part of who I am is why Icontinue to do what I do and
continue to push and and want mychildren to.
At least you know, if you don'twant to do it, don't do it, but
know how.
Stephanie Tallent (51:36):
That is exactly what I tell them all the
time yes, that is exact I'mlike.
Look, I hope you never needthis information as in you're
going to be hungry if you don'tuse this.
I hope that that is not thelandscape that you face at any
point in your life.
But if you do need to, eitherby poverty, your personal life
(51:58):
circumstances or societal lifecircumstances, whatever that is,
I want to know that you areequipped.
I want to know that you havethose things to fall back on and
that you have the mentalability to triage a situation,
and prioritize and problem solve.
And problem solve and go okay,this is overwhelming.
What's the first things?
First, we need to stay hydrated, we need to eat, we need to
like.
How do we take care of thosethings and think in that manner
(52:21):
and not just be panicked?
Dawn Gorham (52:24):
Right, know how to triage a situation.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm so glad we're on the samepage with that.
Stephanie Tallent (52:31):
I think when you get deep enough down these
rabbit trails and my background,I was raised kind of from a
country family in general, so alot of what you're talking about
preserving you know you raisetwo hogs a year and everyone has
a big processing day.
Dawn Gorham (52:43):
Sell one to pay for the other.
Stephanie Tallent (52:44):
Yeah yeah, exactly, or you, or you're
feeding multiple families likemy grandparents always raised
out two hogs and all of us gotsome of them, some of the meat,
which is really nice, and wehelped them on butchering days.
But then I worked for the CDCCenter for Mass Destruction
Defense and I got trained in alot of the things that nobody
wants to think about.
And when you marry those twothings together you just can
(53:07):
never go back to just expectingthe world to work perfectly all
the time.
It will at some point in timenot work correctly.
Dawn Gorham (53:17):
It's a very good point.
Stephanie Tallent (53:20):
So, yeah, cool, Well, I've loved talking
with you about this, I'veenjoyed point.
So, yeah, cool, well, I'veloved talking with you, I've
enjoyed talking to you too.
Dawn Gorham (53:25):
I think this has been a great conversation and
anybody who's listening.
I hope that you have enjoyed it.
If you have any questions, youcan reach out to me or you can
reach out to Stephanie.
Her name is Stephanie talent.
What's the name of yourtranquil tea farms?
Tranquility, tranquility farms.
It looks Stephanie Talent.
What's the name of yourTranquility Farms?
Tranquility.
Stephanie Tallent (53:42):
Farms, tranquility Farms.
It looks funky.
I got to work on thatTranquility.
Dawn Gorham (53:47):
Oh, I got you.
I got you.
I see what she did there.
So, yeah, but you can reach outto her if you have any
questions.
I appreciate y'all tuning intoday If you like the podcast.
It'd be really awesome if youwould like and subscribe.
It helps other people to findour podcast.
You can find me on the socialsat the Gorham Homestead or on my
(54:10):
website atthegorhamhomesteadcom.
I just found out today that I'mgoing to be speaking at the
Kentucky Sustainable Living inthe last of October I think it's
October 25th or 26th.
So if you get tickets, you'llsee me there.
I'm not sure what I'm talkingabout yet.
I suspect it will be milk cows,because that's what I always
end up coming back to.
So, don't know, might be foodpreservation.
(54:31):
But whatever you're doing today, y'all, I hope that you just
remember to keep it real.
See, y'all and my mama was awaitress where they parked M18
(55:01):
wheeler trucks.
We didn't have much money.
Times were kind of hard, livingin a trailer on the edge of
grandpa's farm.
Yeah, I may not come from much,but I've got just enough.
Stephanie Tallent (55:26):
As long as my baby's in my arms and the good
Lord knows what's in my heart Irefuse to be ashamed, it's just
a southern thing.
Hey y'all, and welcome to keeping it real the
Gorham homestead podcast, wherewe talk about real food, real
natural living, the real art ofnatural healing and real life
out here in our Tennesseehomestead podcast, where we talk
about real food, real naturalliving, the real art of natural
healing and real life out herein our Tennessee homestead.
I'm your host, awn Gorham, andtoday is Thursday, august the
15th, 2024, and you arelistening to episode number 21.
Our topic today is aninteresting one.
(00:40):
That has kind of been on mymind lately.
It is why farmers don'tparticularly like homesteaders.
And today I have joining me myfriend, my cow mentor, somebody
that I deeply respect and reallyadmire, and it's Stephanie
Talent, and we're going to bejust diving into this discussion
(01:01):
and see what comes out of it,because I think we both kind of
have some theories and someideas on maybe why this has
happened, so we're just going tojump right in.
Welcome, stephanie, say hi, hi,thank you for having me.
You're so welcome.
I'm excited because this is thefirst time that I've had
anybody in the studio actuallyother than my husband.
So this is a new experience forme and I'm just excited to add
(01:25):
this to my repertoire being ableto interview people and talk
about stuff.
So have you encountered this awhole lot in your situation?
Because I'll have to admit I'mjust going to start this off by
saying I was surprised, like Ididn't see it coming, because I
grew up with like a homesteaderfamily.
(01:46):
They weren't big traditionalfarming family, they were just
stuck on 10 acres and everythingsort of worked together.
It was permaculture before.
Permaculture was cool, orprobably during it.
I just didn't know it.
And so I anticipated that whenI went out to talk to some of
the traditional farmers thatthey would be like my granddaddy
and be willing to answerquestions and, you know, talk
(02:09):
about the old days, and theyjust I've been met with nothing
but brick walls.
Have you had any experiencelike that?
Stephanie Tallent (02:16):
I have and I've encountered it from both
sides because my family inGeorgia are all conventional
farmers.
My grandparents ran a smallfamily dairy.
All my aunts and uncles areeither doing commercial chickens
or cows or, you know, anguscows or whatever, and they're
all doing it.
They're all doing it on a bigscale and they're not.
(02:36):
And for them, if you'rehomesteading, those are just
pets.
You have pets in your oversizedbackyard I got you and you're
having fun with that.
That's not functional.
Dawn Gorham (02:50):
They don't connect the dots on the functionality
that was kind of one of mytheories too, that maybe they
see us more as hobbyists.
That's because we act that wayBecause we make it fun.
Stephanie Tallent (03:02):
A lot of us do, and I think that's you know.
That's that's where we have totake a good long hard.
Look at our movement, what welook like, and you know you're
talking about the family youcame from.
10 acres, they were doinghomesteading and I also have
family members who did thosethings but they never called
themselves homesteaders.
Dawn Gorham (03:19):
Yeah, they didn't either, they were poor.
That's a good point.
Yeah, yeah, having a gardenmeant you were poor back in
those days.
Stephanie Tallent (03:27):
Yeah, well, you know if you had a garden and
you killed your own chickensand you did.
You know my great grandparentsand some of my grandparents were
sharecroppers and you know theydid so many of these things,
but they did it because they hadto.
It wasn't like they woke up oneday and said, oh, let me get
back to the land, let's makesure my kids are connected to
(03:48):
our food systems.
Let's go pay five times as muchper acre as anyone in any
previous generation ever had,and let's go do this.
And so I think there's just abig disconnect from you.
Know.
We view it as a worldview, aphilosophy, a movement.
There's deeper meaning andlayers to this for us.
(04:09):
And I think, for the previousgeneration who lived like this,
it was necessity.
It was not an idealistic way oflife, it was a necessary way of
life.
Dawn Gorham (04:18):
Yeah, and I sort of have encountered that attitude
as well.
I've been like my littleneighbor up the street.
I was talking about killingchickens and he was like I've
been there, done that, don'tever want to do that again, just
kind of that.
You know, we did it because wewere poor and we, you know, just
that kind of.
So I can't.
I kind of get it like theydon't want to go back to that
(04:39):
and it.
But for us I think it's more ofyou're right, it's not that we
have to do it, it's because wechoose to do it.
So I kind of understand maybe alittle bit of that.
But I also think they did us ahuge disservice by not handing
down a lot of those skills Againthey did it because they had to
(05:00):
.
Stephanie Tallent (05:01):
So when they didn't have to anymore and they
saw that their kids didn't haveto anymore and they bought into
the industrialized food system.
Dawn Gorham (05:09):
Like we can just go to the grocery store.
Stephanie Tallent (05:10):
Why would you do these hard things if you can
go to the grocery store andjust buy it with one ounce of
the effort, right?
Dawn Gorham (05:18):
And pennies on the dollar and they couldn't have
possibly have foreseen thedangers of the food system and
how bad it was going to get thehealth impacts.
Stephanie Tallent (05:29):
And that is the other side of this coin.
So many of people who have beenraised in farming communities.
They have been educatedmultiple generations deep at
this point by corporations.
Dawn Gorham (05:41):
So true corporations.
Stephanie Tallent (05:48):
They so true their legacy knowledge is, by
and large, how to do corporatefarming.
The benefits of corporatefarming, how to do more in
smaller spaces, how to run theeconomics tighter and tighter
because they have to um, andthat's just a completely
radically different frameworkthan what we are approaching
food from true, I think theyfocus more on the overall
efficiency, whereas we focusmore on self-sufficiency.
Dawn Gorham (06:11):
So, yeah, I think that's another point of
disconnect.
Stephanie Tallent (06:15):
It is.
Dawn Gorham (06:17):
Yeah, that's.
I mean, I agree and I do seethat.
And that is exactly the reasonthat I get when I run up against
the brick walls that I have,they just don't want to talk
about it.
It's painful, I really thinkit's painful for some of them,
but I just want the knowledge,just tell me, and they're like,
but I don't want to talk aboutit and I think they feel very
(06:40):
criticized and judged by thehomestead movement.
I agree with that.
Stephanie Tallent (06:45):
We come in with our city backgrounds.
Let's just be honest Our lackof common sense, our lack of
hands-on experience, and we sithere and say we read Joel
Salatin.
Dawn Gorham (06:56):
I heard him speak at this conference and he said
this is how we do chickens, andhe said we all have to have
chicken tractors.
Stephanie Tallent (07:04):
He said you never have to deworm your cows,
you just put preparation agentyou know all this stuff, and so
they hear this and they're likelisten, we've been doing this
for forever.
You want to kill livestock?
That's a good way to do it.
Like they don't, there is a bigdisconnect.
We come in with a lot ofarrogance, a lot of lack of
humility and a lot of the way wepresent ourselves online and in
person.
I mean, we run our mouths, wedon't approach.
Dawn Gorham (07:26):
I think it's because we get excited about it,
though I don't think it'sbecause we're trying to be rude.
I think we're just genuinelyexcited.
Stephanie Tallent (07:36):
Well, and we're trying to help each other
along because what we're doingis extremely hard.
Dawn Gorham (07:39):
We are climbing a mountain of we're having to
overcome our own ignorance, ourown lack of common sense.
I have a lot of lack of commonsense.
I get it, I know.
Stephanie Tallent (07:50):
Well, we haven't developed that intuitive
gut instincts that someonewho's been doing?
It for 20 years gets, and Ihave just been doing this long
enough.
I'm starting to get good commonsense instincts, just starting.
Dawn Gorham (07:57):
And.
Stephanie Tallent (07:57):
I can already tell myself, 20 years from now
we'll have so many goodinstincts that I did not have
when I started into this.
Yeah, now will have so manygood instincts that I did not
have when I started into this,but, yeah, I think they feel
criticized, like what they havebeen doing has not been good
enough.
We're coming in with a completelack of experience and we're
just telling them we're going todo it a different way and it's
going to work, and then we screwup.
(08:18):
I mean, the other kind of darkside of the homesteading
movement is a lot of us come invery idealistic, very ignorant
and we kill some animals becausewe're too stupid not to.
And really experienced farmershate that.
They hate to see.
You know, and one I've been inthe homesteading circles for 15
plus years now.
(08:38):
I was into West End Price stuffalmost 20 years ago, so you
know this whole thing.
I've been watching the lifecycles come and go and the
homesteading movement has a veryhigh attrition rate.
People bounce in.
Five years later it's gottenreal, it's gotten hard and they
bounce right back out again.
And you know that's objectively.
(09:00):
For people who are watchingthis, who are multiple
generations deep into what theydo and why they do it, and they
watch this little movement.
It's like boing, boing.
Oh, it got hard for you, oh,you lost animals and you're just
going to sell out and fold upand just say, nope, it was hard,
I'm done, it got real, turnsout.
I'm not cut out for this anyway.
And that goes back to themental resilience that we're
(09:28):
trying to build in ourselves andin our children and that we
weren't raised in that abilityto get up and keep going when
your favorite animal died orwhen just a bunch of crap hit
the fan all at once, which itdoes.
I mean there are days whenyou're just like why am I doing
this?
Dawn Gorham (09:41):
I know I miss the days when I could just sleep
whenever I wanted to, when Ilived in the city I didn't have
to get up and milk cows I wantedto sleep in.
I slept in A sick day.
Stephanie Tallent (09:51):
Yeah, I had a sick day.
Yes, Exactly.
Dawn Gorham (09:56):
Yeah, there's none of that for sure.
So yeah, I mean I do, I totallyunderstand that because my
family was poor.
So I do, you know, I dosympathize with that.
But it does make me a littlesad, though, that the perception
(10:17):
became that if you have yourlittle kitchen garden or your
chickens, or you hang yourclothes out to dry or whatever,
that that is a sign of poverty,and that part of it makes me sad
.
So I kind of hope that thateventually wanes its way out,
maybe a little bit, I don't know, I think I view it more as a
(10:38):
badge of resiliency of peoplewho have gone through.
Stephanie Tallent (10:41):
You know, look at the history.
People have overcome extremelyhard things and they have done
what they had to do to overcomethem and it turns out they
developed a lot of systems alongthe way that actually work.
Dawn Gorham (10:53):
Oh, absolutely that are actually sustainable.
Stephanie Tallent (10:56):
So when life gets hard, those are the systems
we circle back around to ohyeah, and society is starting to
get a little hard out there,right?
Dawn Gorham (11:03):
now I still like my automation, like I'm all about
some sprinklers on timers outhere that I can tell alexa to go
ahead and water my gardens.
Stephanie Tallent (11:11):
I mean internet to be able to research
things and learn and thecrowdsourcing that's available
at our fingertips because of allthe modern things that are
amazing.
But yeah, it's a.
It's a convergence of worldsand I think whenever that
happens, there aremisunderstandings, there are
perceptions.
We judge commercial farmers bythe lowest common denominator.
(11:33):
Example of factory farming.
And I think they judgehomesteaders by our lowest
common denominator trends.
And that is just what happenswhen you have two groups of
people looking at each otherfrom the outside in.
Dawn Gorham (11:47):
Do you think they judge us all by the main social
media influencers, like the oneswho you know?
It's come out over time thatthey're really not doing the
things that they say they'redoing.
I mean, I know it'sentertainment, like that's the
way that I look at it is some ofthose people are, whether
they're doing it or not.
I would much rather watchsomeone milking their cow and
(12:08):
how they feed them, and you knowthen some of the smut and crap
that we see on TV, absolutely.
So I mean, I'm not opposed tothat, but sometimes I think some
of that with the farmers is isis that as well?
They see all these social mediainfluencers and they know
they're not, because they knowif what they're doing works or
not, whereas we don'tnecessarily, until we try it and
(12:31):
fail.
So I think they see some ofthat and they're just like no.
Stephanie Tallent (12:36):
Yeah, they know.
And cosplaying, I mean thewhole cosplaying country, living
like when things became trendy,that's the pushback to it.
It's like no, I don't look likethat, sound like that, or you
know, there's nothing aestheticabout my nitty-gritty reality
farming life.
Dawn Gorham (12:53):
And for you to do it in a make it so glamorous
white linen dress as you pickdaisies along the way with like
high quality cameras capturingyour every move, with the sunset
and your hair blowing in thewind, as you're walking across
the field with your cow's leadover your shoulder and there's
nothing wrong with having funwith that Right, right, but when
(13:15):
?
Stephanie Tallent (13:15):
that becomes the perception of reality.
That's when we have a bigproblem and there's a breakdown
there.
I think that's probably true.
Dawn Gorham (13:22):
Do you think also that they get a little bit
irritated by the difference inour regulations?
Like them there I feel likeindustrial farmers and
commercial farmers are so muchmore highly regulated than we
are, and I think sometimesthat's another point of
animosity is where, because wetend to sell directly to
customers like we and we don'thave because we're such smaller
(13:45):
scale, we don't have so muchregulation, and I think
sometimes that's a point ofcontingency too they just kind
of get irritated by the factthat we're not constantly
overseeing and tested and youknow doing all the things,
especially like us, me and youwith raw milk.
Yeah mean I know some dairyfarmers that are not raw milk
farmers that cannot stand mebecause of that.
Stephanie Tallent (14:09):
There's concerns and again I think I
mentioned my grandparents had afamily raw dairy.
Oh, theirs was raw, but it wasbig.
Well, when they milked it, itwas raw, it was not big.
I think they ran like 30, 35 ata time.
To me that's big yeah, but itwas still a small scale for a
commercial dairy, but I thinkyou know when they live it and
(14:29):
when they see it and when theyhave stories of people getting
sick from milk that hasn't beenhandled correctly or whatever,
it's not hypothetical to them.
They you know this is very real.
They've seen what a really badcase of mastitis or what
cross-contamination can do andall these things that are just
very, very real to them.
It's not, they're not playingaround, they're not messing
(14:50):
around.
They're like this you knowsystems, fail-safes, exist to
protect against those things,and so for them they're like why
are you bailing on a systemthat's basically redundant?
You know all this oversight isfor safety.
Why are you opting out ofsafety?
And it's like well, becauseyou're not making enough money
to keep your doors open Numberone and number two, the health I
(15:14):
mean for them and that also.
I think we're bumping up againsta lot of things where, for us,
the health benefits and what weunderstand and what we believe
to be true about what we'reconsuming and what we're
generating, they believe theirend product is safer and just as
nutritious.
So there's some head-buttingthat's going to come out of that
(15:36):
.
But the hilarious thing to meis, if you talk to dairy farmers
like my family drank the rawmilk straight out of the tank
they all did, but they wouldn'tsell it to anybody else.
the tank they all did and every,but they wouldn't sell it to
anybody else.
They would never sell it toanyone else and they would all
say oh no, no one should ever dothat and I will talk to.
I've talked to regular dairyfarmers now and they're like oh
(15:57):
yeah, well, we drink out of thetank, but that's not what anyone
else should be doing, becauseour you know, our bodies are
used to it, our microbiome, andthere's some legitimacy to that.
They are oh, yeah, absolutelylegitimacy to that, but it just
kind of cracks me up.
It's like oh so you're going toget the benefits of your, but
you're going to be scared todeath to let the general public
touch that with a 10 foot pole.
Dawn Gorham (16:18):
Yeah, and I think they've been so like ingrained
with that whole idea of raw milkyou know, being dangerous it's
just been so preached into them,you know, just ingrained.
And I think they don'tunderstand that the way that we
handle raw milk on our you know,me and you and other dairy, raw
dairy farmers, that we handleit so much differently, like
(16:40):
it's handled from point a topoint b, for the point of you
know, for the point of humanconsumption, like that's why we
handle it the way we handle it.
And my stepdad is a, was a big,not Hereford, he was a dairy
farmer, he had the big farm.
What are the big ones?
Oh, I can't think Holsteins.
Holsteins he had.
Stephanie Tallent (17:00):
Holsteins.
Dawn Gorham (17:00):
And he sold his.
You know, they came with thetruck and they got his milk and
all that stuff.
And when I first started doingraw milk, like he wore me out.
He wore me out and it took meforever to get him to understand
.
I don't handle it the way thathe handled it.
That's right.
Like you know, mine goes in thefreezer.
It gets chilled really quickly.
You know every point is not non, you know no contamination, and
(17:25):
so I think like he really hadto overcome that, like he really
had to break his mentality ofhow he did things.
So, yeah, I think that I thinkthe whole regulatory part of it.
Stephanie Tallent (17:40):
It is and they're overhead.
I mean every step of what theydo is so micromanaged.
I mean what they can take tothe sale barn and on the beef
side of things they live and dieabout the sale barn prices.
So for any of us that haveopted out and gone direct to
consumer but you see more andmore farmers doing that now More
beef farmers are doing that alot Because they have to do that
(18:01):
and you know the demand isthere.
So I think the stigma aroundthat is slowly starting to break
down.
Dawn Gorham (18:07):
I feel like the stigma around raw milk is
starting to as well.
I really do, because justjudging by my waiting list, I
mean I've got a waiting list ofabout 80 people and you know, 10
years ago I never could haveimagined that.
And it's all ages, you know.
It's older people, youngerpeople, middle-aged people, and
(18:27):
that really surprises me becauseI always ask you know, how did
you find me?
How old are you?
Where do you live?
You know all that kind of stuff.
So I'm hoping that over timeand the more and more people who
really work hard to have saferaw milk, I think that will
eventually work in our favor, doyou?
Stephanie Tallent (18:45):
find that you were their first contact with
raw milk.
Like, have they had experiencewith raw milk prior to coming to
you or are you kind of likethey've learned a little bit
about it?
They know that this issomething they want to do and
you're kind of their firstexperience with it?
Dawn Gorham (18:59):
I've had both something they want to do and,
you're kind of, their firstexperience with it.
I've had both, like I've hadsome.
Some of my customers or some ofmy waitlist people have moved
here from other states where rawmilk is very available, like
California, surprisingly enough,shockingly Shocking, yeah, but
you know raw milk is a big thingout there.
So a lot of the Californiapeople will get on the
rawmilkcom and that's generallyhow they find me.
(19:20):
But then some of them arepeople who are just starting to
go to naturopaths, starting togo to functional medicine
doctors, and those doctors arestarting to recommend, if they
have a sensitivity, to try rawmilk.
So they end up contacting mesaying, hey, can I try it?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's one of thosethings that once you've
experienced contacting me saying, hey, can I try it?
(19:40):
And yeah, absolutely.
You know so.
Stephanie Tallent (19:41):
I think it's one of those things that, once
you've experienced it foryourself, you get very motivated
to continue to pursueAbsolutely, Absolutely.
Dawn Gorham (19:48):
That's why how I ended up with my own cows.
Stephanie Tallent (19:51):
I didn't want to be without it.
Dawn Gorham (19:52):
I mean, it was like you know.
Stephanie Tallent (19:53):
So so yeah, and the ability to quality
control myself.
Dawn Gorham (20:02):
Yes, absolutely, you know exactly how it's, yeah,
how it's handled from start tofinish.
Yeah, yeah, let's see.
We talked about publicperception that was another note
that I had, but I think thatkind of fell under the whole
social media thing and I thinkwe talked a little bit about
methods.
Stephanie Tallent (20:19):
I think there is a lot of breakdown with
methods.
But even in the homesteadingcommunity we have a lot of
different.
I slant more towards natural,herbal as sustainable as
possible.
And then there are somehomesteaders who have every
single prescription and orover-the-counter medication and
dewormer known to man.
Dawn Gorham (20:38):
And do it like clockwork.
Stephanie Tallent (20:39):
They are very mainstream in their management
practices while beingsustainable from their land, and
so you know, the ideologieswithin the homestead movement
are very diverse.
Yeah, but I do think that wegenerally are perceived to be
more crunchy.
See, there's some overlap, likethere's overlap.
(21:01):
There's a lot of weird thingsabout the homestead movement,
like if you look at it through aVenn diagram, you have a lot of
holistic crunchy overlap.
What does crunchy mean?
Dawn Gorham (21:09):
Can you define crunchy for me?
Because I see that all the timeon social media.
What is crunchy, I mean, areyou?
Stephanie Tallent (21:15):
I think it goes back to like in the 70s,
when people were doing crunchygranola and you were like it
when you started eating healthy,like the granola, the, the
crunchy vegan granola, and sothey were kind of that's where
the term kind of got coined from.
So if you kind of start goingtowards the more natural bent in
life, you're kind of bendingtowards crunchy and then you
know crunchy has been kind ofreplaced with more holistic or
(21:37):
I'm into organic lifestyle.
Dawn Gorham (21:39):
I like the word holistic better than crunchy I
do too Sounds dirty.
Stephanie Tallent (21:44):
But you know of the Venn diagram you've got a
lot of homeschool.
You've got a lot of homeschooloverlap in the homestead
community and that's anotherweird standalone sort of a thing
.
So the homesteading communityhas a lot of.
You got your preppers who verystrongly overlap into the
homesteading community andthat's their own thing as well
but, there's a lot of overlapwith the homesteading movement.
(22:05):
Um, I just think it's.
Dawn Gorham (22:07):
It is a movement in which there's a lot of weird
things connected to andoverlapped with, all of which
would make a conventionalfarmer's eyebrows shoot straight
up I could see that because wetend to opt out of systems, like
we want to opt out of thehealthcare system, out of the
transportation system, out ofthe education system, out of the
you know, the commercial foodsystem, like we want out of all
(22:30):
of it, and when you opt out ofone and you deal with, like the
whole cultural shift withinyourself and within your
relationships and your familyand your friends and your
community.
Stephanie Tallent (22:40):
It gets 10 times easier to opt out of the
next one.
Like the stigma doesn't stingas much and then you get, and
you get more educated about itand you get more confident like,
oh, I can actually do this andoh, it's actually better when I
opt out.
Dawn Gorham (22:54):
Right.
Well, I feel like there's lesscontrol.
I mean more more personalcontrol, less control by other
people over me when I opt out ofsystems like that Cause I feel
like when I was in theconventional medical system,
before I started doing directprimary care and functional
medicine, I felt like they toldme what I was going to do,
instead of asking me how I feltabout it or what you know, what
(23:17):
a treatment plan I would want,or you know, they just they were
very judgy if I pushed backagainst anything that they told
me I was going to do.
So I feel like and now, youknow, with functional medicine,
you know they want to know.
How do you feel about this?
What do you know?
Because you're you know, youknow yourself better than I do
and you know your childrenbetter than I do, and and I
(23:41):
think there's a lot of freedomin that, and it's the same way
with the food system, like youknow, like when I butcher my
chickens, I know, from the daythey came here to the day they
go to that cone, what they'vehad, and I just you know, you
see so much stuff on socialmedia and the internet and stuff
about all of the differentlaboratory things that they're
wanting to come out with, and Ithink a lot of the homesteaders
(24:05):
are just terrified Like we aregenuinely terrified of what is
coming down the pike, because itjust seems to get worse and
worse.
Stephanie Tallent (24:13):
It is about control, and it is about
controlling numbers andcontrolling populations, and so
when you are in these systems,you're not viewed as an
individual, you're not a.
Dawn Gorham (24:24):
You're not you're not a consumer.
Stephanie Tallent (24:26):
You are a consumer, you are a taxpayer,
you are a member of XYZcommunities.
And these are all boxes, theseare all census boxes and you
know dollar boxes and these areall boxes to be ticked.
And when you opt out you becomevery individual care oriented,
like you said, with the medicalsystem, my individual nutrition,
(24:46):
my individual medical care,personal responsibility it is,
and my, my individualeducational journey and my
individual, just all of thesethings become extremely
customized which can look veryeclectic from the outside and
can look very even unpredictablefrom the outside.
And so you opt out of the boxesLike it's just literally saying
no, I don't fit into theseboxes anymore.
(25:08):
No, thank you.
Dawn Gorham (25:09):
Yes, yes, very much .
So I agree with that.
I wonder.
So I wonder if maybe justhaving how would you have that
conversation?
Like if I'm wanting to go talkto my neighbor and say, look,
tell me why you feel the waythat you feel about what I'm
doing, because he literallymakes fun of me to my face.
Stephanie Tallent (25:28):
He doesn't hold back, like literally makes
fun of me but also farmers dothat to each other that's true,
that is actually true.
Dawn Gorham (25:36):
Very good point, like I, hear these little guys
at the auctions they're going atit.
Stephanie Tallent (25:40):
Nobody criticizes each other, nor rips
each other apart quicker orfaster than farmers Like they
are, you know, and they'll dothat all day long.
They will make fun of each otherall day long They'll be like oh
, so-and-so, always does thisand this, this guy always
looking poor about winterbecause he doesn't do this.
You'll hear this all the time.
But then, like when push comesI mean like someone's barn burns
(26:01):
down or a tragedy actuallyhappens they are also the
quickest.
They've got each other's backsin a heartbeat.
So some of it is we just got togrow thicker skin.
That's true If we want to havethese conversations with them,
because they will hurt yourfeelings and they will laugh
while they do it.
Dawn Gorham (26:15):
Yeah, he does.
Stephanie Tallent (26:25):
I promise he does, yeah, and the other thing
is we got to get.
I mean, I have had a couple ofconversations with these guys
and they have hurt my feelingsand I have felt a little
defensive as I hear the feedbackon what doesn't make sense and
I think this is something that Itook to heart in my own journey
and I try to pass it along toother homesteaders as well is,
when you get into this one, getmentally prepared.
(26:46):
You will mess up and an animalwill die.
Just go ahead and mentally.
Dawn Gorham (26:51):
And that is hard.
It is yes.
Stephanie Tallent (26:53):
Nobody wants to talk about that and nobody
wants to accept that I mean, inone year's time, four family
milk cows that I knew in oneyear's time all died from mostly
(27:14):
nutritional slash, preventableissues that were owner ignorance
leading to neglect problems.
When that is seen from theoutside in, I mean, you know,
who we also should be talking tois vets, veterinarians.
Because homesteaders are tight.
We're trying to get our land,we're trying to get this going.
It's all expensive.
Our learning curve is expensive.
To go to our little conferencesis expensive.
To buy our little tutorialsfrom each other is expensive,
(27:35):
like there's nothing that we'redoing that's not expensive and
we're all having to do this allup front.
So to sit here and try tobudget for vet costs or anything
that's an extra.
We don't do that.
We don't get into it preparedto do that.
So a lot of times allveterinarians see is them coming
on the tail end of a really badsituation.
That was 100% preventable.
(27:55):
Yeah, had we gotten theminvolved earlier.
And or had we been humbleenough to go get our feelings
hurt from someone withexperience earlier on?
And so those are two thingsI've really taken to heart,
because I think our ignorance isexacting a pretty high price.
But those of us who pay thatprice stick it out.
Dawn Gorham (28:17):
Don't bounce around that.
Stephanie Tallent (28:19):
Three to five year mark and dig in deeper and
get up on those hard days.
It's very worth it.
I don't in any way diminish thevalue of this as I say it Right
.
Yeah, I agree, but it's justthe hard stuff and it's the
stuff that gets judged reallyharshly from the outside in.
Dawn Gorham (28:36):
Yeah, Especially by people who I think a lot of the
city folks.
Really they enjoy watching it,Like they enjoy knowing what
you're doing but at the sametime they're kind of like Well,
but it's entertainment value.
Stephanie Tallent (28:49):
Yeah, it's totally entertainment for them.
It's free entertainment forthem.
Dawn Gorham (28:52):
Yes, but yeah, I think you're right.
I think a lot of them, becauseI mean I've had the same issues.
You know, I had Tara go down acouple of years ago and I didn't
know what to do.
Luckily, I do have a great vetand we have Tommy you know I can
always ask Tommy anything.
Stephanie Tallent (29:09):
I love him.
Dawn Gorham (29:10):
Me too.
I talk about him on all mypodcasts.
He gets tickled, but you know,and last year I lost 40 chickens
in one day.
We were in the chicken tractors.
We went to Chase's school forthe open house it was in August
and I didn't think about it andI turned the chicken tractors
facing the west where the sunwas coming in and I didn't think
(29:32):
, and they all piled up in theback and what happened?
They smothered each other andthey were like two weeks before
processing and we came home andit looked like a massacre had
happened.
But that was totally my error,like totally me, um, but I, you
know, but I picked myself, Icried and carried on, you know,
and worried about the, the lostmoney and the lost chickens,
(29:54):
obviously, um, but you know, Ipicked myself up from it and I
learned from it and I will neverturn those chicken tractors
towards the west ever again andI will never process chickens in
the summer ever again If Ican't get them delivered in
March and process them in May orOctober, then I'm not doing it.
Stephanie Tallent (30:12):
So but you know, but I learned from it, you
know, and that's the thing likewe have to be prepared to learn
from this to get kicked in theteeth, get up and keep going.
And, honestly, that resilienceof like go down, get up and keep
going.
That's where you start seeingthese farmers go.
Okay, you've got.
You've got what?
It takes Because they've alldone it Like I mean my.
(30:35):
My granddad said if you ownlivestock you're going to own
dead stock at some point.
Dawn Gorham (30:40):
And it's like it's true, that's true, that's just a
truth.
Stephanie Tallent (30:43):
And it doesn't matter how good you are
at what you do.
If you own livestock, at somepoint they're going to be dead
stock.
But getting through that andnot letting it completely derail
what you're doing.
Dawn Gorham (30:55):
I agree, so maybe communicating and having a
conversation with them, tryingto make them understand.
I feel like I've done that,though, and it didn't work and
learning from them.
Stephanie Tallent (31:08):
I ask questions like what do you do
for parasite management?
What's your protocol?
And just leave it and let themanswer, and just leave it and
let them answer, and I've alwayslearned something from that
question.
I may not do what they're doing, but I have always learned
something.
Right and they'll say oh, thisis a big problem now.
It wasn't my whole life, but itis now.
(31:29):
This is resistant to that.
Now, okay, we know that now andI'm like okay, I didn't know
that before.
And even though I'm not usingusing those same management
practices, that's where theirknowledge is invaluable to us.
Dawn Gorham (31:41):
Yes, very much so.
Stephanie Tallent (31:42):
The other.
Oh, this was another gap that Ihad thought about mentioning is
so when we listen to a podcastlike there's one from Out West,
I love her, jill.
Jill Winger yes, she's amazing.
Her climate and theirenvironment is so radically
different.
Yes, very From what we have here.
If I were to have her write outthis is what I do and this is
(32:04):
how I do it, and this is Verylittle of that day-in to day-out
management would be applicableto me here in the South and when
someone who has these reallylush pastures of up north or
they have like a foot and a halfof black topsoil and their
pastures are a certain thing,what they do, I cannot do
(32:25):
because we have terrible soil.
We have to work so hard at justbuilding it up to basic
nutritional value.
And when someone out West istalking about oh, I feed this
hay, I just have this grass-fedcow hay.
Dawn Gorham (32:45):
I just had this grass fed cow.
Stephanie Tallent (32:45):
Well, their hay protein count is so much
higher than what the cheap hayhere is, and so you know a bale
of hay is not equivalent to abale of hay somewhere else.
But I think when we, when weall first get into this, we're
just trying to glean knowledgefrom anyone we can, we're
learning.
Dawn Gorham (32:56):
We think hay is hay .
Stephanie Tallent (32:57):
We think hay is hay, because to us it is.
When you don't know better,that's what you think and you
get into this and we listen.
We listen to all the OGs that welisten to and who have paved
the way 30 years ago or 20 yearsago or 15 years ago and we're
gleaning from them.
But I think we're not reallychecking ourselves to go,
because I know I forget what itwas.
(33:19):
But one time I told, I told himI was, oh, I'm going to do this
, and he laughed.
And he laughed and he said,well, get, get back with me and
let me know how that goes.
Dawn Gorham (33:26):
And it turns out.
Oh, I hate it when they saythat.
Stephanie Tallent (33:28):
You can't do that in our area, Like our
weather patterns, like whateverit was I was going to do.
Dawn Gorham (33:32):
It doesn't work here you can do that in other
places people.
Stephanie Tallent (33:44):
It doesn't work here, and so getting that
regional specific knowledge likewhat we have to do for parasite
management is so aggressivecompared to what other places do
, and just things like that therecovery time of our pastures is
so much faster than they havein other places we don't
necessarily have to let themhave the rest period if we're
doing rotational, just thingslike that that are so unique to
our little region of the worldthat we have to let them have
the rest period if we're doingrotational, just things like
(34:04):
that that are so unique to ourlittle region of the world that
we have to learn from people whoare here doing it, doing it
here in our climate, and that'swhere I feel like getting these
conversations with these farmerswho've been doing this forever
is so helpful.
Dawn Gorham (34:15):
Let me ask you this Do you think it's better to ask
them how they do it now than totry to glean from them what
they did in the old days?
Because a lot of my questionsare because I want to know how
to do it the hard way, so thatif the easy way is no longer
accessible, I can do it the hardway.
And they don't want to answerthose questions.
(34:36):
But I wonder, if I ask them OK,what are you doing now?
Yeah, and then I like to ask.
Stephanie Tallent (34:41):
so you said your granddaddy had this farm
too, right?
Well, how did he do it when hedid it?
And then they're thinking oh,that's right, how did granddaddy
do?
Dawn Gorham (34:48):
it.
Oh, let's talk about granddaddy.
They like to talk aboutgranddaddy, they do.
Stephanie Tallent (34:56):
That makes sense and that's where you, the
primary dewormer, that get outare you serious?
serious?
That's how the south dewormedall their animals for forever
and ever, and themselves.
That's why tobacco was such anintegral part of the south.
But I did not know that.
Well, you don't hear thatunless you hear them, and you
and they'll say, well, yeah, andthat they'd grow.
You know a row of tobacco backhere, hang it up in the barn,
and then they would use it sothey feed it to the animals,
(35:19):
just with their feed, theirsilage, and mix it.
Dawn Gorham (35:22):
See, I still don't understand silage like I know
that's ridiculous because I, Ifeed hay and I feed a little bit
of grain and I feed alfalfapellets, right I, and I don't
have the pasture to be able togo grow something and cut it as
sorghum silage or whatever.
But I hear some old farmerstalking about, oh, I had these
cows and they'd ball for thatsilage and I'm like, okay, what,
(35:45):
tell me, what is silage like?
What fermented?
It's just where they pile it onand I kind of had that general
idea.
But is it just piled it on topof each other and let it ferment
in a?
Stephanie Tallent (35:57):
in a pit, or us from west, any price circles.
We, we basically know how easyit is to ferment vegetables and
you can do it in so manydifferent ways and it's just
fermented and it's like youfollow these basic guidelines
and you wind up with a fermentedend product which is probiotic
rich, enzyme rich.
The nutritional value has beenunlocked on levels that it
wasn't before in its fresh form.
(36:18):
Same exact principles applywith silage that is so cool.
Dawn Gorham (36:23):
I wish I had pasture to do that I wish I did
too.
Stephanie Tallent (36:26):
And the old timers used to dig these pits
that they call silage pits, like, and they just pile all their
green, like just green mixtureof stuff, and they kind of knew
how much like corn stalks yeahwhat the ratio, corn stalks and
all that stuff, and each of themwould have their own recipe
kind of dialed in like this isthe way, and some of them would
put a little sweetener on thereto jump start it or whatever,
(36:47):
but then cover it up.
And this is where it gets hardfor me, because you can ruin a
batch of silage and kill youranimals with a spoiled batch of
silage.
But they could tell from thesmell.
So when I talk to these oldguys who've done it, they're
like well, you can tell thedifference in the smell.
And then I've caught myselftelling people that with
ferments I'm like well, you cantell something's off with a good
ferment, like it should havethat particular nice, clean,
(37:08):
fermented smell.
And then they look at me withthe same look that I'm giving
them.
Dawn Gorham (37:11):
Because they have never smelled the smell.
Stephanie Tallent (37:13):
Right, and I have never smelled the smell of
don't know that.
I'd pick up on that.
Dawn Gorham (37:19):
Yeah, I get it.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
Stephanie Tallent (37:23):
That's right.
Dawn Gorham (37:26):
But that's one of my gaps, that I would love to.
But I think that's one of thosethings where their experience
is just so valuable and I wanttheir knowledge, I want their
input, I want to know all of thethings.
I think we just got to grow athicker skin, take a little more
(37:53):
time and be willing to hearthings we don't want to hear.
I don't like them.
I'm just teasing.
I know I can take it.
I can take it a lot better thanI pretend like I can.
Yeah, yeah, they, they, theytry to be a little gentle on me,
although they, you can tell.
You can tell they're making funof me.
They're going to do that.
Stephanie Tallent (38:03):
I mean, like I say it's part of their culture
.
I think they just they do it toeach other.
That's just.
That's just part of their,probably part of their, coping
mechanisms.
Life is hard, I mean it's hard.
Farming is hard.
You throw the jobs off the farm, because I mean, these days, if
I talk to a conventional farmer, there's not a single one that
I have talked to, but that isall they do.
They either work off the farm,or their spouse works off the
(38:26):
farm, or they both work off thefarm, and then they farm on top
of that.
It's an extremely hard andtaxing lifestyle.
Dawn Gorham (38:34):
Yeah, I don't know how I did it, like I don't know
how, and I didn't even do it onthat scale, but I don't know how
I did go into the office like Idid and then coming home and
canning until one or two o'clockin the morning, and even when I
was milking, and then goinginto the office getting up at
four or three, I don't know howI did it.
And now, because now I feellike there's still none of hours
a day and I'm here all day,there's not.
(38:54):
So, yeah, I totally get that.
There was something else I wasthinking I was going to bring up
and I can't remember what itwas.
Oh, I know what it was.
One of the other things thatthey kind of make fun of me for
and get irritated at me about isthe fact that I don't milk
twice a day.
Stephanie Tallent (39:12):
That's a big one.
Dawn Gorham (39:13):
They get.
So like what do you mean?
You don't milk twice a day.
Stephanie Tallent (39:16):
It causes a literal error code to pop up
especially in the dairy guys.
They're like what do you mean?
That's cruel, that's inhumane,you're ruining her udder.
Yes, and this is where I try totread lightly, because these
are all men that I've had thisconversation with and they've
never breastfed themselves, so Ican't exactly get too personal
(39:37):
with this.
So when I say, well, it is asupply and demand kind of
situation, Right as you back off, they make less.
Yeah, the body adjusts andcalibrates.
Dawn Gorham (39:47):
But they dry them off.
So they totally understand thatthat happens at the end.
And again, I think that'sefficiency maybe.
Stephanie Tallent (40:04):
Maybe they come back to in their head
you're letting milk go that youcould be making and it's a waste
.
Yes, so the waste of the wasteof the system being that way is
also another sticking point forthem.
One they're concerned for thehealth of the animal, right.
Two, why would you throw awaydouble your milk, right, almost
double, not gonna say, because Idon't a third more.
Why would you throw it?
Why would you just flush athird more down?
The toilet could let likeyou're too lazy to milk twice a
day.
You know that's.
That's the kind of dynamic butthe answer is yes.
(40:25):
I am, but I do it for thehealth of my cow.
I don't.
And that's the other disconnectthat happens.
I'm not feeding for maximumproduction.
I'm not pushing that cow to thevery limits of what her
capability is I either.
Yes, I want her to have reserves.
I don't want to be operating onthe razor's edge of no reserves
(40:47):
, like they have to do inproduction dairy dynamics.
Dawn Gorham (40:50):
I want my girl to have reserves.
Stephanie Tallent (40:52):
I want to have reserves.
We're not going to operatewithout margins if I can help it
, like if I can possibly help it, and that just goes back to I'm
philosophically approachingthis from a different framework
than they are.
Dawn Gorham (41:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that's probably the bigthing with that, and it's also
that same thing with calfsharing, because they're, you
know, all of them pull thecalves day one and either sell
them off or bottle feed them amilk replacer or whatever, and
they can't grasp the whole ideaof leaving the calf with the mom
(41:25):
for six months or however longyou choose to do it.
Stephanie Tallent (41:27):
You know the SEC counts do go higher because
that sphincter's opened upmultiple times a day with a calf
on them, but in a well-managedand you hear the horror stories
and I'm sure we're in some ofthe same groups where people
post the horror stories thecalves ripping up teeth and all
this stuff, and I'm sure we'rein some of the same groups where
people post the horror stories.
Oh yeah, the calves ripping up,you know, teeth and all this
stuff, and I'm like, well, we'renot.
You know, I've always turned topeople when I talk about calf
sharing.
(41:48):
I'm not saying I'm throwingthis cow out in the field and
I'm never touching her orlooking at her again.
And the next time I look at hershe's got raging mastitis and
torn up teeth.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Right, she's still coming in,she's getting babied, she's
getting fed her stuff.
We're milking her out.
Her udder health is beingchecked daily.
If that calf is rough on her, wedo not let calves be rough on
(42:11):
udders Like this is a verysupervised, well managed,
dynamic and not every cow cancalf share.
It's not good for every cow.
It's been really good for meand I love preserving those
maternal instincts in thesedairy animals that it's becoming
scarcer and harder and harderto find.
Right, because I really feellike we are the last reserve of
people who care about maternalinstincts in the entire dairy
(42:33):
world, the world period.
Humans included yes, it's thoseof us opting out of this
disconnect from birth mindsetand saying no.
Let's keep these instinctsalive.
These are good instincts, weneed them.
Dawn Gorham (42:48):
Yeah, and females across the board yeah, I agree.
Stephanie Tallent (42:52):
Yeah, you're right, that goes for everything.
That goes for all the animalson my farm.
Dawn Gorham (42:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, is there anything elsethat has been on your mind with
this?
I think that was pretty muchall my notes.
I mean, the only other thing wetalked about, the market
competition a little bit, andthe direct consumer, I think
that's again.
I think they feel like we're acompetition to them and I agree
(43:18):
that.
I think I agree with you.
I think the number one thingnow that we have talked about
this is probably they feeljudged because we put so much um
emphasis on organic and non-gmo.
Stephanie Tallent (43:34):
And boy, you bring up non-gmo and organic and
they just scenes, or vaccines,they, or vaccines, or vaccines.
They lose their minds.
That's a topic that isextremely volatile in the animal
community.
Dawn Gorham (43:45):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know why the, I guess the
GMO thing they it made them moreefficient and made things
easier for them with the, youknow, with the pesticides and
whatnot.
So I mean, I understand thatthey don't want that to go away,
but I also think they'reburying their head in the sand
(44:08):
when it comes to the dangers youknow.
Stephanie Tallent (44:13):
I think it is that thing where when you hear
them talking amongst themselvesand again, I've been in those
conversations just because ofthe culture I'm from in Georgia
you hear those conversations.
They know it's not sustainable,they know they're not getting
paid enough for living wage, butthey also know that they are
the last stop.
They know they're feedingAmerica because of the way that
(44:35):
they're farming and so in theirminds, like if we stop doing
this, if we all, just people aregoing to starve.
People are going to starve.
People are going to starvebecause that's how the math
looks on paper right now whenyou run it, and so that is very
difficult.
You know, when we criticizethis, I don't feel like we're
really adequately conveying,like, I mean, the sad truth is
(44:58):
we need the industrial complexat this point in time.
We do.
Dawn Gorham (45:00):
Yeah, we're not there yet.
Stephanie Tallent (45:01):
The sad truth is, we need the industrial
complex at this point in time.
We do.
Yeah, we're not there yet.
As our society exists currently, it can't go away or people
will starve, and I think that'sthe ground they stand on.
It's like, okay, you're sayingthat we shouldn't do this this
way, but what's your plan B?
What's?
Dawn Gorham (45:16):
you going to do?
What's everybody going to do?
Stephanie Tallent (45:18):
Yeah, because we all rely on this, and that's
right, and I can't grow wheat,like I mean you know, my cows
still have to eat and I don'thave 10 acres of corn either.
Dawn Gorham (45:28):
So I mean I do agree that, I mean they are very
necessary at this point.
Stephanie Tallent (45:34):
Well, and if we go back those generations,
like we were talking about, ourfamilies come from.
We know our poor family thatlived the way that they do in a
lot of things we're doing now.
They killed squirrels andpossums and they ate them.
Dawn Gorham (45:46):
Raccoons and raccoons.
We called it Spanish chicken.
Stephanie Tallent (45:49):
That's right, but they didn't do it because
they preferred that over beef.
Right, it was a necessity, theydid it because they were hungry
and they were not going to haveprotein if they didn't do it
and I think that's just areminder you know that was pre
this industrial food complexbecoming what it's becoming, and
you don't hear about peopleeating those animals anymore,
(46:10):
because they're not animals, notif I can help it, not if you
can help it.
And so that's where I think wehave to get very real with what
the industrial food complex hasgiven us, and when we say, oh,
we're going to take that away,well, let's look back at what
the food landscape actuallylooked like before it existed.
And then we've just got tothink through some of that, and
those are conversations to have.
And just the last point I wantto make was let's just keep
(46:34):
breaking down thesecommunication barriers, because
we need them.
This is not an us versus them.
This is a cultural and perhapsknowledge-based disconnect, but
that makes sense.
We desperately need them and Idon't know that they need us or
if they know that they need us,but we very much need them and
very much appreciate them andwhat they do.
Dawn Gorham (46:54):
I think they're going to need us as they age,
more work towards our local, youknow, feeding our local
community and, like you know, myneighbor across the street has
a greenhouse and people down theway have you know different
things that I don't grow,animals that I don't raise, but
I do think that if the timecomes that that industrial food
(47:17):
system breaks down, it's gettingsome pretty substantial cracks
here and there, and I thinkCOVID was a great illustration
of when a stressor is put onthis already strained system.
Stephanie Tallent (47:28):
I think we got a first front row seat.
Dawn Gorham (47:30):
Yeah, because you're trucking it across the
country as opposed to goingacross the street and you know,
getting squashed from yourneighbor across the street or
whatever.
And I think you know.
And what if a, what if a globalemergency actually happens?
What?
Stephanie Tallent (47:44):
if the power goes out, what?
Dawn Gorham (47:47):
When, when, yeah, I mean, I know it's coming.
I try to be more optimistic,though I try to not.
Stephanie Tallent (47:53):
Well, when we look at history, I mean this is
what history teaches us.
History repeats itself.
Absolutely, it's coming.
National and global eventshappen, whether it's a natural
disaster.
I think all of us who were inthis region during 2010, during
the flood of 2010, we allsurvived that.
I think that was again a frontrow seat when you don't have a
road to get out of, when you arestuck here when you have just
(48:16):
basic infrastructures, like youcan't shower because your water
is so contaminated for threeweeks straight, before you even
get just so many things that welive through here.
I think we don't know what it'sgoing to be Like.
It can be natural, it can besocietal, it can be, you know,
war, pandemic, plagues, family,right All of the things, yes, I
mean go back to the beginning oftime, and these are the things
(48:38):
that happen in the human, in thehuman experience.
So, knowing that that's what wehave to go, it's like, well,
what is it going to be?
And it's not evenfear-mongering, it's not being
afraid, it's just being veryfactual, like okay, and being
prepared.
Dawn Gorham (48:50):
I think it's personal responsibility to be
prepared for emergencies, likeeven the government tells you.
You know we have september, wegot preparedness month, you know
.
I mean when even they'rewilling to admit it on a small
scale.
You know you need to kind of doit on a big scale because our
power, we know that our powergrid is our major vulnerability,
(49:11):
we know that cyber attacks areour major communications All of
that stuff is a hugevulnerability that our enemies
can extort or you know they canhit us on those things and if
they ever want to.
Stephanie Tallent (49:28):
Or just even our own supply chains break down
so they can't be maintenancedand updated and kept up to the
manner in which we areaccustomed.
Right, exactly, I mean, itdoesn't even have to be a
catastrophic could be acatastrophic thing, but it
doesn't even have to be thatcatastrophic.
Could be a catastrophic thing,but it doesn't even have to be
that.
Dawn Gorham (49:46):
It can just be major.
This went down.
Stephanie Tallent (49:47):
Overload part isn't available, it's got to be
shipped over from overseas.
And the shipping, so manythings can happen and that's the
reality that I I live in.
That reality but I think thatgoes back to that venn diagram
overlap between the prepperawareness mindset.
That overlaps with thehomesteader world, yes, and that
(50:07):
heightened sense of personalresponsibility.
But you know, I can't.
Dawn Gorham (50:10):
That's ingrained into me because that is what I
spent a lot of time with mygrandparents because my, you
know, my mom worked all the time, so I spent and my grandmother
babysat me, so I was there allsummer, there during the school
year weekends, rode the bus toher house, but that was always
her thing and that was how shelived, was it was summer, was
(50:33):
preparing for winter and theyhad the well water and they
didn't necessarily have backuppower but they had hand crank
they could get the water if theyneeded to.
And that was.
That has always been part of mymind, that you spend your good
times preparing for the, for thehard times.
And when I moved to Nashville,I was sort of shocked to when I
(50:56):
realized that, you know, thepeople in my little suburban
neighborhood didn't even haveenough food to last for two days
, right, like.
They didn't know how to can Alot of things they'd never even
heard of when it come to foodpreservation.
Didn't know you could do Like,didn't know you could make your
own bread, didn't know that youcould make pickles at home, you
know, and I'm like, what do youmean?
(51:16):
What so, yeah, what so yeah, Imean I, it's part of I think
it's part of who I am is why Icontinue to do what I do and
continue to push and and want mychildren to.
At least you know, if you don'twant to do it, don't do it, but
know how.
Stephanie Tallent (51:36):
That is exactly what I tell them all the
time yes, that is exact I'mlike.
Look, I hope you never needthis information as in you're
going to be hungry if you don'tuse this.
I hope that that is not thelandscape that you face at any
point in your life.
But if you do need to, eitherby poverty, your personal life
(51:58):
circumstances or societal lifecircumstances, whatever that is,
I want to know that you areequipped.
I want to know that you havethose things to fall back on and
that you have the mentalability to triage a situation,
and prioritize and problem solve.
And problem solve and go okay,this is overwhelming.
What's the first things?
First, we need to stay hydrated, we need to eat, we need to
like.
How do we take care of thosethings and think in that manner
(52:21):
and not just be panicked?
Dawn Gorham (52:24):
Right, know how to triage a situation.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm so glad we're on the samepage with that.
Stephanie Tallent (52:31):
I think when you get deep enough down these
rabbit trails and my background,I was raised kind of from a
country family in general, so alot of what you're talking about
preserving you know you raisetwo hogs a year and everyone has
a big processing day.
Dawn Gorham (52:43):
Sell one to pay for the other.
Stephanie Tallent (52:44):
Yeah yeah, exactly, or you, or you're
feeding multiple families likemy grandparents always raised
out two hogs and all of us gotsome of them, some of the meat,
which is really nice, and wehelped them on butchering days.
But then I worked for the CDCCenter for Mass Destruction
Defense and I got trained in alot of the things that nobody
wants to think about.
And when you marry those twothings together you just can
(53:07):
never go back to just expectingthe world to work perfectly all
the time.
It will at some point in timenot work correctly.
Dawn Gorham (53:17):
It's a very good point.
Stephanie Tallent (53:20):
So, yeah, cool, Well, I've loved talking
with you about this, I'veenjoyed point.
So, yeah, cool, well, I'veloved talking with you, I've
enjoyed talking to you too.
Dawn Gorham (53:25):
I think this has been a great conversation and
anybody who's listening.
I hope that you have enjoyed it.
If you have any questions, youcan reach out to me or you can
reach out to Stephanie.
Her name is Stephanie talent.
What's the name of yourtranquil tea farms?
Tranquility, tranquility farms.
It looks Stephanie Talent.
What's the name of yourTranquility Farms?
Tranquility.
Stephanie Tallent (53:42):
Farms, tranquility Farms.
It looks funky.
I got to work on thatTranquility.
Dawn Gorham (53:47):
Oh, I got you.
I got you.
I see what she did there.
So, yeah, but you can reach outto her if you have any
questions.
I appreciate y'all tuning intoday If you like the podcast.
It'd be really awesome if youwould like and subscribe.
It helps other people to findour podcast.
You can find me on the socialsat the Gorham Homestead or on my
(54:10):
website atthegorhamhomesteadcom.
I just found out today that I'mgoing to be speaking at the
Kentucky Sustainable Living inthe last of October I think it's
October 25th or 26th.
So if you get tickets, you'llsee me there.
I'm not sure what I'm talkingabout yet.
I suspect it will be milk cows,because that's what I always
end up coming back to.
So, don't know, might be foodpreservation.
(54:31):
But whatever you're doing today, y'all, I hope that you just
remember to keep it real.
See, y'all and my mama was awaitress where they parked M18
(55:01):
wheeler trucks.
We didn't have much money.
Times were kind of hard, livingin a trailer on the edge of
grandpa's farm.
Yeah, I may not come from much,but I've got just enough.
Stephanie Tallent (55:26):
As long as my baby's in my arms and the good
Lord knows what's in my heart Irefuse to be ashamed, it's just
a southern thing.
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