May 28, 2024 • 32 mins
Are outdated city ordinances suffocating the spirit of rural homesteading? On today's episode of "Keeping it Real, the Gorham Homestead Podcast," we unravel the intense battle of a young couple in Dickson, Tennessee, who are caught in the crossfire of a restrictive law prohibiting chickens within a thousand feet of another structure. You'll hear about their determination to challenge this ordinance, the unexpected community support they garnered, and some intriguing off-the-record advice from a codes enforcer. This episode shines a light on the ongoing struggle between preserving rural living ideals and resisting encroaching urban regulations, advocating for the right to self-sustainability and community resilience.
As we shift gears, we delve into the nitty-gritty of launching and running a farm-based business. From FDA regulations to food freedom laws in Tennessee, this episode covers everything you need to legally sell herbs, chickens, and freeze-dried foods. We'll also tackle the importance of liability insurance, contracts, and choosing the right business structure to protect your homestead enterprise. Whether you're a seasoned homesteader or just embarking on this journey, our episode is packed with invaluable insights to help you navigate the legal landscape and operate your business ethically and successfully. Don't miss out on these essential tips to ensure your farm thrives within the bounds of the law.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey y'all, and welcome to keeping it real, the
Gorham homestead podcast, wherewe talk about real food, real
natural living, the real art ofnatural healing and real life
out here in our Tennesseehomestead.
I'm your host, dawn Gorham, andtoday is Tuesday, may the 28th
2024, and you're listening toepisode number 13, keeping it
(00:36):
Legal-ish on the homestead.
So the name of the game aroundhere is circumvention, not
compliance.
Listen to me againCircumvention, not compliance.
I literally have a t-shirt thatsays on the front the Gorham
Homestead, and it has that onthe t-shirt.
(00:58):
And the reason is is becauselaws sometimes can be set up.
Now, I'm not against laws Let me, let me go ahead and back that
up but sometimes laws are notset up as fairly to the consumer
where they should be, as theyshould be, and, in my personal
(01:19):
opinion, a victimless crime.
Law should not be a law.
There should be freedom.
We should have the freedom tofeed ourselves, to feed our
neighbors, to make our owndecisions, and so today, let me
just go ahead and say today'sepisode is one that I need to do
.
A disclaimer I'm not anattorney.
(01:39):
This is not meant to beconstrued as legal advice.
Always remember that laws canvary from state to state,
municipality to municipality,city ordinance to city ordinance
, and that you always need toseek the advice of a qualified
attorney before you makedecisions on how you are going
to proceed on your homestead.
(02:00):
Now, that being said, this isjust some things that we do and
that we know a lot of people whodo these things.
They are just some ideas andsome thoughts on how, you know,
we can provide quality food toour neighbors and to our
(02:21):
community and to our familiesand to ourselves and, you know,
not end up in a whole ton of hotwater over it, because that's,
you know, that kind of defeatsthe purpose.
I will circumvent the law whennecessary, but I'd rather not
have to Like, I would rather thelaw be in my favor, I would
rather be in compliance, I wouldrather be on the right side of
(02:46):
things.
I'm a good person.
I believe I try to be a goodperson.
I'm not always, but I try to bea good person and I try to
follow the rules.
Following the rules is notalways the most beneficial to
(03:09):
yourself and the most beneficialto your health, the most
beneficial to your faith, yourfamily, your medical decisions.
So I have broken that mold.
You know, I was a teacher's kid.
Teacher's kids are rulefollowers.
Ask me how I know.
In my graduating class therewas about 15 of us that were
teachers kids and we were likewe told the line.
(03:31):
We really, really did.
We didn't get in a whole lot oftrouble.
We were scared to because,everything you know, we were
right there at the high schoolwith our parents and everything
came back on us and so, anyway,I had to break that, having my
seat in my butt, in the seatwhen the bell rang, with my
pencil in my hand and my faceforward and my eyes on the
(03:53):
chalkboard, kind of mentality.
And one of the things that wegot going on right now Well, one
of the things we got going onright now is why I'm in a fight
for freedom is in the DixonTennessee.
So we're here in Dixon Tennessee.
One of our community memberskeeps getting nasty grams from
(04:14):
the city telling them that theycannot have chickens within a
thousand feet of anotherstructure.
A thousand feet, that is afootball field, that's longer
than a football field and it's aridiculous, unreasonable amount
(04:35):
of distance.
But that ordinance has been onthe books since, apparently, the
60s and they've just neverreally enforced it.
Well, the only time it everreally gets enforced is when
you've got a nasty neighbor, andunfortunately this young couple
that has their chickens theygot a nasty neighbor.
The nasty neighbor keepsturning them in.
(04:56):
And so I ran into one of thecodes guys, one of the guys that
is the enforcer of such thingshere in Dixon County at Tractor
Supply, and I cornered him and Iwas like, hey, I want to know
what's going on with the chickenthing, because back several
months ago we were trying tochange the law and it was coming
up in front of the council.
But they wanted to make it towhere they could inspect your
(05:19):
coop and charge you a $25 feeevery year, a hen permit, and
you could only have fourchickens, and it didn't matter
how many, how much acreage youhad, it was still just four
chickens.
And they wanted it had to be somany square feet for your coop
and they had to be able to comeand look at your coop and be no,
(05:41):
it was just super invasive andthey did not expect the number
of people from the community toshow up in opposition as we did.
So it just kind of got sweptunder the rug.
So when I saw the codes guy atTractor Supply.
I was like, hey, I want to knowwhat's going on.
He said, just tell your peopleto do what they want to do, just
(06:02):
tell your people to have yourchickens, have their chickens.
And so I was like, okay.
So I kind of thought that ofcourse you know you should
always get something like thatin writing, which they're not
going to do, because that was,you know, on the down low.
Um, so it's reared its ugly headagain.
Apparently the neighbor hasturned them in again.
(06:23):
Um, neighbor doesn't like them,neighbor's city folk.
And we've got other peopledriving around moving here from
the city that's driving aroundin the city limits taking
pictures of people with theirchickens and telling them
they're not allowed to have this.
And they're literally screamingthis stuff from their car
windows as they're videoing andtaking pictures of people in
(06:45):
their own yards with their ownthings going on.
And they have plenty of space,their chickens are well kept,
their animals are well kept.
They're just being Karens forno good reason and unfortunately
there's really not anything wecan do about it.
You can't stop someone fromdriving by your house and taking
(07:09):
pictures or videoing oranything else unless it becomes
to a level of stalking likeevery day, all the time you know
stalking you, threatening you,that sort of thing.
Then you know, potentiallythere might be an order of
protection or something to behad.
But typically that doesn't evenhappen unless there's some sort
(07:30):
of familial relationship withthat person.
That's hard to get even in thatinstance.
So I don't know, I don't knowwhat the answer for is or the
answer is for that.
But we are going to um I toldthem to hold off and see if they
get another letter.
If they get another love, theyget a second letter, then
(07:54):
probably what we are going to dois write them a letter back to
the city from the law office,from my husband's law office and
um advise them that they havebeen, he has been retained and
that we are, you know,potentially going to file suit
if the law is not changed tosomething reasonable.
(08:15):
Now, coming back on that, we'regoing to have to propose to
them something reasonable.
They are not going to allow andthey're not going to agree to
100 chickens on a half acre lotwith roosters, and it's just not
going to happen.
So to me, I think that thenumber of chickens should be
proportionate to the lot size,because some of these people
(08:38):
have an acre inside the citylimits.
Some of them have five acres,but just because they're within
that city limit sign, all of asudden they're you know, they're
not qualified to be able tohave chickens, and that's just
silly.
We have a right, a fundamentalright, to be able to feed
ourselves, especially in thiseconomy, with the price of
(09:00):
everything going up Um, the justthe cost to move food.
Nowadays, it's never going tobe really cheaper to have your
own chickens in your own,especially if you raise them the
way that you.
You know most people want toraise them organic, non-gmo, all
that good stuff, but still youhave a right to have that.
You have a right to be incontrol of your food supply, and
(09:24):
they are trying to stop thesepeople from being able to do
that, and they are trying tostop these people from being
able to do that.
So, on that note, I've reachedout to one of our senators here
in Tennessee, senator Nicelygoing to see if he can maybe
help guide us on the proper wayto proceed so that we don't end
up causing more harm than we do.
(09:45):
Good, because that is not whatI want.
I do not want other people whohave chickens within the city
limits to start getting targeted.
I don't want it to be worsethan it is.
I don't want any negativeoutcomes from this.
So I'm really trying to treadthe water lightly and try to
(10:05):
proceed without making um,without making it worse.
So there's where we are on theon the chickens.
And if you have chickens whereyou are, just remember you know
you can always petition, you canalways file suit if you need to
.
You know that costs money, butat the same time you get enough
people joining together thatwant something changed and then
(10:27):
you've got a potential to getsomething changed.
But it takes strength innumbers.
They're not going to listen toone or two people.
You have to join together, youhave to have a community, you
have to have people showing upand letting their voices be
heard.
So just kind of keep that inmind.
So just kind of keep that inmind.
(10:48):
The USDA and FDA part of theproblem that we have is that
they have literally come out andsaid that we do not have a
fundamental right to feedourselves foods of our own
choosing, that they know betterthan we do what we should be
(11:13):
eating and that they know what'ssafe and we don't that.
We're not smart enough, we'renot wise enough, we're not
careful enough to make our owndecisions.
And here in Tennessee, some ofour legislators are fighting
back against that.
I suspect that more of themthan not just pretend that they
are fighting back and in realitythey just kind of sit back and
(11:37):
let things happen because,looking at their voting record,
they're not quite as much on thefreedom side as they would like
for people to believe, wouldlike for people to believe.
So that's where our vote andour voice makes a difference is
at the local level, at the statelevel.
We cannot do anything aboutanything that goes on at the
(11:58):
federal level.
We just can't, we're not goingto make a difference at that
level.
Where you're going to make adifference is within your city,
within your town and within yourstate.
And once you get up to statelevel, even that is difficult is
(12:30):
that they have this.
Even the Tennessee Supreme Courthas deemed raw milk herd shares
to be legal, because you havethe right in the state of
Tennessee to drink the milk fromyour own cow in whatever form
that you choose to drink thatmilk in.
So people will join togetherand they will form herd shares
and they will join herd shares,and that's basically where the
group of people owns the herd ofcows and then the person who
actually owns the farm.
You're not paying them for thegallon of milk.
(12:53):
You are paying them for the actof boarding your animal, caring
for your animal and thenmilking your animal and
providing you with fruits oftheir labor.
So you're not buying the milk,you're just participating in the
care and the work.
In that sense, You're payingthe person to do the work for
(13:15):
you.
Same thing as it would be ifyou hired a farmhand and you had
your own dairy cow.
They milked it, you drank itsame thing.
You can do the same sort ofsetup to get around some of the
other laws, I guess I should sayby setting up farm shares.
So you can technically and Iknow that herd shares work in
(13:38):
the state of Tennessee, so Idon't know why farm shares would
not work.
I know there's a couple ofother states where they do this,
they do this, but you can letpeople own a stock or a share of
your entire farm, which meansin return weekly or monthly or
every other week or typicallyit's weekly though they can come
(14:02):
to your farm and pick upwhatever their share is for the
week, whether it's a couple ofpork chops or some steaks and
some butter and some milk andhomemade bread, whatever it is
that your farm is producing thatweek that that particular
customer has a share in, you cantechnically sell them or sell
(14:28):
them shares and provide thatservice for them.
That is not something that Iknow of many people doing here
in the state of Tennessee, soI'm not 100% positive that it
works, but that's just somethingto give you a little bit of an
idea.
Sort of the same thing is likewhen you go to Jack Daniels and
you visit the Jack Danielsdistillery.
(14:49):
So Jack Daniels is a dry county, right?
You can't buy liquor inLynchburg.
So you can't.
Jack Daniels is a dry county.
Jack Daniels is in a dry countyLynchburg, whatever county that
is.
So you can't buy liquor there.
So the way that they circumventthat by being able to allow
(15:15):
people to purchase bottles oftheir bourbon there at the
distillery is that they do notsell you the bourbon, they sell
you the bottle.
They sell you the empty glassbottle.
That's what you're purchasing.
Now if it happens to have Idon't know a small batch bottle
(15:39):
bourbon inside the bottle, thenso be it, but that's how they
get around it.
They're not selling you thebourbon, they're selling you the
bottle, and so that's howyou've kind of got to think.
When there's something thatyou're wanting to be able to
provide to folks from your farm,think about ways that you can
(16:01):
get around that and still bewithin the law, still be legal,
still not be breaking the law,but being able to do what you
need to do to make money and toearn a living.
When it gets to herbs, that'ssomething that you have to be
(16:22):
super careful about, because youtechnically the FDA says you
can either sell herbs or you canteach people, people about
herbs.
You cannot do both.
Now people do it and have beendoing it for years, and the
reason that they did that wasbecause of all the weight loss
(16:47):
products and stuff out therethat were just gimmicks and they
were taking people's money andthey were educating them and
then selling them the thing, anda lot of that stuff turned out
to just be scams, and so thatwas the reasoning behind them
putting in their don't tell andsell law is what it was
(17:07):
nicknamed.
So now I can, if I wanted tocreate a concoction or create an
herb blend or something likethat, specifically for a person.
You could come to me and we canhave a one-on-one and then I
can make something specificallyfor you.
What I cannot do is put it outthere on the Internet teaching
(17:30):
people about the thing and thenturn around and selling them the
thing.
And the other thing that youhave to be super, super careful
about is to not make any medicalclaims.
You have to get crafty and cutewhen you're coming up with your
names, like I have one that's atincture that is sort of, you
know, for those hot flashes andPMS-y things and where you don't
(17:54):
feel good and you're allthatures, prevents, treats,
anything.
I just call it shark week andpeople kind of know what that
means.
I have one called snot nose.
Can you figure that out, whatthat does?
(18:16):
And so it's just little thingslike that.
You have to be able to skirtaround it and say it without
saying it, and that way you'renot making any medical claims.
You always need to do yourdisclaimer that you're not a
medical provider and that youshould always seek the advice of
a qualified medical provider.
(18:36):
You know all of that good stuffand then you can.
You know you can certainly makeyour stuff.
You can make your tinctures,you can make your teas.
Just be super careful abouttinctures because anything that
has alcohol in it that is over5% falls under the alcohol board
(18:58):
and not the cottage food laws,not the food freedom laws in
some states laws not the foodfreedom laws in some states.
So just be aware of that,because it's the same with
vanilla extract tinctures,anything that has a high proof
of alcohol you just got to becareful with.
And I'm not so sure aboutshipping that stuff across state
(19:21):
lines.
That kind of gets into a littlemore.
I don't know if it'stechnically legal, so because
that once you put it in the mailit becomes federal.
So just always talk to yourattorney wherever you are and
find out if that sort of thingthat you can do, if you can mail
(19:42):
it or if you need to justprovide it from your farm as a
pickup or a delivery or local orwhatever.
But just kind of keep that inmind.
That that's something that youneed to be aware of.
If you want to process chickensin the state of Tennessee we can
process up to 20,000 chickenswithout having to have
(20:04):
inspection.
Once you get over that number,then you become big potatoes,
and they have.
You know you have to submityourself.
I mean, you still have to ifthe health department wanted to
come and inspect.
You still have to submit tothat sort of thing, but you
don't have to be USDA inspectedlike you do.
(20:24):
When you get to that largenumber of chickens Always just
be super careful, be super clean.
What you are required to do isput your farm name, your address
, your phone number and the datethat it was processed.
I think in the state ofTennessee we are required to
have a certified scale if youare going to sell things by the
(20:48):
pound.
So sometimes it's better to dosmall, medium, large and put a
range like what your smallchicken is, what your medium
chicken is, what your largechicken is.
I do label mine by the poundbecause I do have a certified
scale.
So that's sort of how I do that.
(21:11):
If you're getting intofreeze-dried foods, you can ship
that stuff.
It is shelf-stable and anythingthat is shelf-stable that does
not require refrigeration or tokeep heated to maintain any
particular temperature fallsunder the food freedom laws and
the cottage food laws here inthe state of Tennessee.
(21:32):
So we can sell green beans wecan sell as long as canned green
beans.
We can sell the freeze-driedfood.
It doesn't matter if it's eggs,milk, meat, whatever, it does
not matter.
If it is shelf-stable, then youare able to sell it and you are
able to make a living from it.
(21:53):
Now, one thing I will say aboutselling canned goods, and I've
said this before when I talkedabout the canning rebels, and so
if you haven't heard thatepisode, let me just reiterate
that if you knowingly use unsafecanning methods you, for
instance, water bath, a low acidfood, rather than pressure
(22:17):
canning your low acid food andthen you give that to someone or
you sell that to someone andthat someone gets sick or dies,
you can be charged withmanslaughter, manslaughter,
prison.
And I know that a lot of peoplehave said my grandma did it,
(22:39):
she was fine, Nobody ever died.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
But all it takes is one time.
That's just like driving drunkLots of people drive drunk, but
all it takes is one wreck whereyou kill somebody and you're
going to prison.
So just be real, real carefulto document your stuff, to
(23:02):
always keep up with, keep goodfood logs.
You know that you can show thatyou, you know, did the very,
very best that you can to keepyour food as safe as possible
for the consumer.
Now, if you're selling atsomewhere like a farmer's market
, something of that naturepretty much all of them, the
(23:26):
farmer's markets require you tohave what's called flip
insurance and that is just aliability insurance that
protects the market and protectsyou in case someone were to get
sick or something were tohappen.
That's a super smart thing todo.
You can always have some sortof liability rider on your farm
insurance and just you know.
(23:49):
And when you do herd shares oryou do contracts with people,
even if it's a farm sharecontract, a herd share contract,
whatever it is you need to putin that contract and again, not
an attorney just telling youwhat I do, this, this is
strictly from personalexperience Always put in your
contract that what you're goingto do.
(24:09):
So you got to have someconsideration what you're going
to do and what they can expectfrom you and what you expect
from them.
But that also put in there whatthey, that they understand that
there's always a risk If it'sraw milk.
They need to sign that theyunderstand that there is a risk
(24:30):
associated with drinking rawmilk.
There is a risk associated withconsuming home canned goods.
There is a risk associated withanything.
Everything there's a riskassociated with driving your car
to the bank.
Everything there's a riskassociated with driving your car
to the bank, but because that'sa decision that you make
(24:50):
between yourself gettingyourself from home to the bank
you know you don't have to signa contract with anybody for that
, but you just have to make surethat people understand and, in
return, you let them know thatyou are going to do your very,
very best to keep the cleanestmilk, the quickest chill
temperature.
You know you're going to takethe utmost care to process those
(25:12):
green beans for the rightamount of time at the right
amount of you know pressure andall of that good stuff.
That you're going that you arekeeping their health and their
safety in mind as you'repreparing food for them to
consume.
That's just the right thing todo.
So as long as you're doingthose things, though, and as
long as it's not malicious andyou're not just careless and
(25:40):
doing things just for the sakeof doing it and not caring about
other people's health andthinking that you, you know more
than you know than the otherpeople who have said that it
needs to be done this way orthat way, then you're going to
be fine and you should be fine,but just know there's always a
risk associated with that aswell, for the consumer and for
(26:01):
the producer.
Um, I'm going to end it here.
You need to think about whetheror not you want to be an LLC
with your farm or a soleproprietor.
There are benefits anddrawbacks to both, and that is
something that you definitelyneed to speak to your attorney
(26:23):
about and your accountant andwhoever else is, you know, are
your advisors on how you proceedwith your business on your farm
.
But one of the things that Iwill say is an LLC does protect
you from them being able to comeafter your personal assets in
the event that there is alawsuit, someone sues you for
(26:44):
whatever, that there is alawsuit, someone sues you for
whatever, and if you have an LLCset up and they are doing
business with that LLC, theycan't come after your personal
assets.
They can't come after yourpersonal car, your home, your
bank accounts.
They can only seize things thatare in the name of the LLC.
Now there is such thing ascalled piercing the corporate
(27:08):
veil, which is possibledepending on the situation.
So just know that as well.
You are not completely andtotally insulated by having a
limited liability corporation ora regular corporation.
It's not 100% foolproof.
The downside to being an LLC,though, is if you need to sue
(27:31):
someone for contract dispute orthey sue you, you cannot
represent yourself in court, atleast not in the state of
Tennessee, which I suspect.
It's that way everywherebecause you can't practice law
without a license, and an LLC isnot you, it's an entity, and so
you cannot represent the entityin court.
You can only represent yourself.
(27:52):
You do have a right to show upin any court and represent
yourself, but you can'trepresent the LLC, so you will
always have to have an attorneygoing forward to show up in
court for you to be there withyou.
You can file stuff to saveyourself some money, work that
out with your attorney, orwhatever.
(28:13):
When it comes to actuallyshowing up in court, you have to
have an attorney with you, sothat is the downside.
The downside to being a soleproprietor is and I don't know
about the tax implications,because that's not my forte I
know there's tax implications onboth sides, one way or another,
(28:34):
but as far as the legal systemgoes, if you are a sole
proprietor, you can show up andrepresent yourself.
But at the same time, thatopens you up to be able to be
any of your assets is fair gameacross the board because it's
you personally doing businesswith the person or with whoever.
(28:55):
So just kind of keep that inmind.
Sole proprietors there's a lotless paperwork, there's a lot
less money involved.
You don't have to file you knowall of that LLC stuff every
year and you don't have to payfees and you can have a you know
any bank account, as long asit's a separate bank account
that you, you know, don'tcommingle funds and all that
(29:17):
kind of stuff.
So just kind of keep that inmind and be sure to talk to you
know your attorney and youraccountant and see what works
best for you.
But just always know that dothe best you can and talk to
your attorney about ways thatyou might be able to be creative
if there's something that youreally want to sell or really
(29:38):
want to provide to the communityand the law might be set up
against you.
Just know that sometimes itjust takes a little creativity.
But with that, I hope that youenjoyed today's podcast.
This is something that's nearand dear to my heart, because I
care so much about freedom.
(29:59):
I care so much about mycommunity and my neighbors and
my children and my children'schildren and my
great-grandchildren all beingable to live life the way that
they want to live it and to feedthemselves and to not ever have
to do anything, no matter whatit or something against their
(30:20):
moral standards, somethingagainst their religious
standards, something against theway that they want to eat, the
way they want to feed themselves, their nutrition choices I
don't care what it is.
You have the right to make yourown decisions.
You have the right to decidewhat's in your life, what you're
(30:44):
going to.
You know you have to toleratepretty much everything, but you
don't have to accept everything,and so and you have that right
you have that right to like whoyou want to like, to not like
who you don't want to like.
You know, and you have theright to allow someone into your
home and not let someone elseinto your home.
That's your home, that's yourright.
That's your.
(31:06):
That's your right.
That's your kitchen and youmake the decisions in your
kitchen.
So thank you so much for tuningin.
Like I said, I hope you'veenjoyed today's topic.
If you like the podcast, itwould be great if you could
subscribe and leave a review.
It helps other people to findour podcast and you can find us
on all the socials atthegormhomesteadcom.
Whatever you have got on thedocket today, remember y'all,
(31:31):
keep it real.
See y'all a guitar pickerplaying all the local clubs and
my mama was a waitress wherethey'd park M18 with a truss.
We didn't have much money.
(31:53):
Times were kinda hard, livingin a trailer on the edge of
Grandpa's farm.
Yeah, I may not come from much,but I've got just enough.
As long as my baby's in my armsand the good Lord knows what's
(32:17):
in my heart.
I refuse to be ashamed.
It's just a sudden thing.
Hey y'all, and welcome to keeping it real, the
Gorham homestead podcast, wherewe talk about real food, real
natural living, the real art ofnatural healing and real life
out here in our Tennesseehomestead.
I'm your host, dawn Gorham, andtoday is Tuesday, may the 28th
2024, and you're listening toepisode number 13, keeping it
(00:36):
Legal-ish on the homestead.
So the name of the game aroundhere is circumvention, not
compliance.
Listen to me againCircumvention, not compliance.
I literally have a t-shirt thatsays on the front the Gorham
Homestead, and it has that onthe t-shirt.
(00:58):
And the reason is is becauselaws sometimes can be set up.
Now, I'm not against laws Let me, let me go ahead and back that
up but sometimes laws are notset up as fairly to the consumer
where they should be, as theyshould be, and, in my personal
(01:19):
opinion, a victimless crime.
Law should not be a law.
There should be freedom.
We should have the freedom tofeed ourselves, to feed our
neighbors, to make our owndecisions, and so today, let me
just go ahead and say today'sepisode is one that I need to do
.
A disclaimer I'm not anattorney.
(01:39):
This is not meant to beconstrued as legal advice.
Always remember that laws canvary from state to state,
municipality to municipality,city ordinance to city ordinance
, and that you always need toseek the advice of a qualified
attorney before you makedecisions on how you are going
to proceed on your homestead.
(02:00):
Now, that being said, this isjust some things that we do and
that we know a lot of people whodo these things.
They are just some ideas andsome thoughts on how, you know,
we can provide quality food toour neighbors and to our
(02:21):
community and to our familiesand to ourselves and, you know,
not end up in a whole ton of hotwater over it, because that's,
you know, that kind of defeatsthe purpose.
I will circumvent the law whennecessary, but I'd rather not
have to Like, I would rather thelaw be in my favor, I would
rather be in compliance, I wouldrather be on the right side of
(02:46):
things.
I'm a good person.
I believe I try to be a goodperson.
I'm not always, but I try to bea good person and I try to
follow the rules.
Following the rules is notalways the most beneficial to
(03:09):
yourself and the most beneficialto your health, the most
beneficial to your faith, yourfamily, your medical decisions.
So I have broken that mold.
You know, I was a teacher's kid.
Teacher's kids are rulefollowers.
Ask me how I know.
In my graduating class therewas about 15 of us that were
teachers kids and we were likewe told the line.
(03:31):
We really, really did.
We didn't get in a whole lot oftrouble.
We were scared to because,everything you know, we were
right there at the high schoolwith our parents and everything
came back on us and so, anyway,I had to break that, having my
seat in my butt, in the seatwhen the bell rang, with my
pencil in my hand and my faceforward and my eyes on the
(03:53):
chalkboard, kind of mentality.
And one of the things that wegot going on right now Well, one
of the things we got going onright now is why I'm in a fight
for freedom is in the DixonTennessee.
So we're here in Dixon Tennessee.
One of our community memberskeeps getting nasty grams from
(04:14):
the city telling them that theycannot have chickens within a
thousand feet of anotherstructure.
A thousand feet, that is afootball field, that's longer
than a football field and it's aridiculous, unreasonable amount
(04:35):
of distance.
But that ordinance has been onthe books since, apparently, the
60s and they've just neverreally enforced it.
Well, the only time it everreally gets enforced is when
you've got a nasty neighbor, andunfortunately this young couple
that has their chickens theygot a nasty neighbor.
The nasty neighbor keepsturning them in.
(04:56):
And so I ran into one of thecodes guys, one of the guys that
is the enforcer of such thingshere in Dixon County at Tractor
Supply, and I cornered him and Iwas like, hey, I want to know
what's going on with the chickenthing, because back several
months ago we were trying tochange the law and it was coming
up in front of the council.
But they wanted to make it towhere they could inspect your
(05:19):
coop and charge you a $25 feeevery year, a hen permit, and
you could only have fourchickens, and it didn't matter
how many, how much acreage youhad, it was still just four
chickens.
And they wanted it had to be somany square feet for your coop
and they had to be able to comeand look at your coop and be no,
(05:41):
it was just super invasive andthey did not expect the number
of people from the community toshow up in opposition as we did.
So it just kind of got sweptunder the rug.
So when I saw the codes guy atTractor Supply.
I was like, hey, I want to knowwhat's going on.
He said, just tell your peopleto do what they want to do, just
(06:02):
tell your people to have yourchickens, have their chickens.
And so I was like, okay.
So I kind of thought that ofcourse you know you should
always get something like thatin writing, which they're not
going to do, because that was,you know, on the down low.
Um, so it's reared its ugly headagain.
Apparently the neighbor hasturned them in again.
(06:23):
Um, neighbor doesn't like them,neighbor's city folk.
And we've got other peopledriving around moving here from
the city that's driving aroundin the city limits taking
pictures of people with theirchickens and telling them
they're not allowed to have this.
And they're literally screamingthis stuff from their car
windows as they're videoing andtaking pictures of people in
(06:45):
their own yards with their ownthings going on.
And they have plenty of space,their chickens are well kept,
their animals are well kept.
They're just being Karens forno good reason and unfortunately
there's really not anything wecan do about it.
You can't stop someone fromdriving by your house and taking
(07:09):
pictures or videoing oranything else unless it becomes
to a level of stalking likeevery day, all the time you know
stalking you, threatening you,that sort of thing.
Then you know, potentiallythere might be an order of
protection or something to behad.
But typically that doesn't evenhappen unless there's some sort
(07:30):
of familial relationship withthat person.
That's hard to get even in thatinstance.
So I don't know, I don't knowwhat the answer for is or the
answer is for that.
But we are going to um I toldthem to hold off and see if they
get another letter.
If they get another love, theyget a second letter, then
(07:54):
probably what we are going to dois write them a letter back to
the city from the law office,from my husband's law office and
um advise them that they havebeen, he has been retained and
that we are, you know,potentially going to file suit
if the law is not changed tosomething reasonable.
(08:15):
Now, coming back on that, we'regoing to have to propose to
them something reasonable.
They are not going to allow andthey're not going to agree to
100 chickens on a half acre lotwith roosters, and it's just not
going to happen.
So to me, I think that thenumber of chickens should be
proportionate to the lot size,because some of these people
(08:38):
have an acre inside the citylimits.
Some of them have five acres,but just because they're within
that city limit sign, all of asudden they're you know, they're
not qualified to be able tohave chickens, and that's just
silly.
We have a right, a fundamentalright, to be able to feed
ourselves, especially in thiseconomy, with the price of
(09:00):
everything going up Um, the justthe cost to move food.
Nowadays, it's never going tobe really cheaper to have your
own chickens in your own,especially if you raise them the
way that you.
You know most people want toraise them organic, non-gmo, all
that good stuff, but still youhave a right to have that.
You have a right to be incontrol of your food supply, and
(09:24):
they are trying to stop thesepeople from being able to do
that, and they are trying tostop these people from being
able to do that.
So, on that note, I've reachedout to one of our senators here
in Tennessee, senator Nicelygoing to see if he can maybe
help guide us on the proper wayto proceed so that we don't end
up causing more harm than we do.
(09:45):
Good, because that is not whatI want.
I do not want other people whohave chickens within the city
limits to start getting targeted.
I don't want it to be worsethan it is.
I don't want any negativeoutcomes from this.
So I'm really trying to treadthe water lightly and try to
(10:05):
proceed without making um,without making it worse.
So there's where we are on theon the chickens.
And if you have chickens whereyou are, just remember you know
you can always petition, you canalways file suit if you need to
.
You know that costs money, butat the same time you get enough
people joining together thatwant something changed and then
(10:27):
you've got a potential to getsomething changed.
But it takes strength innumbers.
They're not going to listen toone or two people.
You have to join together, youhave to have a community, you
have to have people showing upand letting their voices be
heard.
So just kind of keep that inmind.
So just kind of keep that inmind.
(10:48):
The USDA and FDA part of theproblem that we have is that
they have literally come out andsaid that we do not have a
fundamental right to feedourselves foods of our own
choosing, that they know betterthan we do what we should be
(11:13):
eating and that they know what'ssafe and we don't that.
We're not smart enough, we'renot wise enough, we're not
careful enough to make our owndecisions.
And here in Tennessee, some ofour legislators are fighting
back against that.
I suspect that more of themthan not just pretend that they
are fighting back and in realitythey just kind of sit back and
(11:37):
let things happen because,looking at their voting record,
they're not quite as much on thefreedom side as they would like
for people to believe, wouldlike for people to believe.
So that's where our vote andour voice makes a difference is
at the local level, at the statelevel.
We cannot do anything aboutanything that goes on at the
(11:58):
federal level.
We just can't, we're not goingto make a difference at that
level.
Where you're going to make adifference is within your city,
within your town and within yourstate.
And once you get up to statelevel, even that is difficult is
(12:30):
that they have this.
Even the Tennessee Supreme Courthas deemed raw milk herd shares
to be legal, because you havethe right in the state of
Tennessee to drink the milk fromyour own cow in whatever form
that you choose to drink thatmilk in.
So people will join togetherand they will form herd shares
and they will join herd shares,and that's basically where the
group of people owns the herd ofcows and then the person who
actually owns the farm.
You're not paying them for thegallon of milk.
(12:53):
You are paying them for the actof boarding your animal, caring
for your animal and thenmilking your animal and
providing you with fruits oftheir labor.
So you're not buying the milk,you're just participating in the
care and the work.
In that sense, You're payingthe person to do the work for
(13:15):
you.
Same thing as it would be ifyou hired a farmhand and you had
your own dairy cow.
They milked it, you drank itsame thing.
You can do the same sort ofsetup to get around some of the
other laws, I guess I should sayby setting up farm shares.
So you can technically and Iknow that herd shares work in
(13:38):
the state of Tennessee, so Idon't know why farm shares would
not work.
I know there's a couple ofother states where they do this,
they do this, but you can letpeople own a stock or a share of
your entire farm, which meansin return weekly or monthly or
every other week or typicallyit's weekly though they can come
(14:02):
to your farm and pick upwhatever their share is for the
week, whether it's a couple ofpork chops or some steaks and
some butter and some milk andhomemade bread, whatever it is
that your farm is producing thatweek that that particular
customer has a share in, you cantechnically sell them or sell
(14:28):
them shares and provide thatservice for them.
That is not something that Iknow of many people doing here
in the state of Tennessee, soI'm not 100% positive that it
works, but that's just somethingto give you a little bit of an
idea.
Sort of the same thing is likewhen you go to Jack Daniels and
you visit the Jack Danielsdistillery.
(14:49):
So Jack Daniels is a dry county, right?
You can't buy liquor inLynchburg.
So you can't.
Jack Daniels is a dry county.
Jack Daniels is in a dry countyLynchburg, whatever county that
is.
So you can't buy liquor there.
So the way that they circumventthat by being able to allow
(15:15):
people to purchase bottles oftheir bourbon there at the
distillery is that they do notsell you the bourbon, they sell
you the bottle.
They sell you the empty glassbottle.
That's what you're purchasing.
Now if it happens to have Idon't know a small batch bottle
(15:39):
bourbon inside the bottle, thenso be it, but that's how they
get around it.
They're not selling you thebourbon, they're selling you the
bottle, and so that's howyou've kind of got to think.
When there's something thatyou're wanting to be able to
provide to folks from your farm,think about ways that you can
(16:01):
get around that and still bewithin the law, still be legal,
still not be breaking the law,but being able to do what you
need to do to make money and toearn a living.
When it gets to herbs, that'ssomething that you have to be
(16:22):
super careful about, because youtechnically the FDA says you
can either sell herbs or you canteach people, people about
herbs.
You cannot do both.
Now people do it and have beendoing it for years, and the
reason that they did that wasbecause of all the weight loss
(16:47):
products and stuff out therethat were just gimmicks and they
were taking people's money andthey were educating them and
then selling them the thing, anda lot of that stuff turned out
to just be scams, and so thatwas the reasoning behind them
putting in their don't tell andsell law is what it was
(17:07):
nicknamed.
So now I can, if I wanted tocreate a concoction or create an
herb blend or something likethat, specifically for a person.
You could come to me and we canhave a one-on-one and then I
can make something specificallyfor you.
What I cannot do is put it outthere on the Internet teaching
(17:30):
people about the thing and thenturn around and selling them the
thing.
And the other thing that youhave to be super, super careful
about is to not make any medicalclaims.
You have to get crafty and cutewhen you're coming up with your
names, like I have one that's atincture that is sort of, you
know, for those hot flashes andPMS-y things and where you don't
(17:54):
feel good and you're allthatures, prevents, treats,
anything.
I just call it shark week andpeople kind of know what that
means.
I have one called snot nose.
Can you figure that out, whatthat does?
(18:16):
And so it's just little thingslike that.
You have to be able to skirtaround it and say it without
saying it, and that way you'renot making any medical claims.
You always need to do yourdisclaimer that you're not a
medical provider and that youshould always seek the advice of
a qualified medical provider.
(18:36):
You know all of that good stuffand then you can.
You know you can certainly makeyour stuff.
You can make your tinctures,you can make your teas.
Just be super careful abouttinctures because anything that
has alcohol in it that is over5% falls under the alcohol board
(18:58):
and not the cottage food laws,not the food freedom laws in
some states laws not the foodfreedom laws in some states.
So just be aware of that,because it's the same with
vanilla extract tinctures,anything that has a high proof
of alcohol you just got to becareful with.
And I'm not so sure aboutshipping that stuff across state
(19:21):
lines.
That kind of gets into a littlemore.
I don't know if it'stechnically legal, so because
that once you put it in the mailit becomes federal.
So just always talk to yourattorney wherever you are and
find out if that sort of thingthat you can do, if you can mail
(19:42):
it or if you need to justprovide it from your farm as a
pickup or a delivery or local orwhatever.
But just kind of keep that inmind.
That that's something that youneed to be aware of.
If you want to process chickensin the state of Tennessee we can
process up to 20,000 chickenswithout having to have
(20:04):
inspection.
Once you get over that number,then you become big potatoes,
and they have.
You know you have to submityourself.
I mean, you still have to ifthe health department wanted to
come and inspect.
You still have to submit tothat sort of thing, but you
don't have to be USDA inspectedlike you do.
(20:24):
When you get to that largenumber of chickens Always just
be super careful, be super clean.
What you are required to do isput your farm name, your address
, your phone number and the datethat it was processed.
I think in the state ofTennessee we are required to
have a certified scale if youare going to sell things by the
(20:48):
pound.
So sometimes it's better to dosmall, medium, large and put a
range like what your smallchicken is, what your medium
chicken is, what your largechicken is.
I do label mine by the poundbecause I do have a certified
scale.
So that's sort of how I do that.
(21:11):
If you're getting intofreeze-dried foods, you can ship
that stuff.
It is shelf-stable and anythingthat is shelf-stable that does
not require refrigeration or tokeep heated to maintain any
particular temperature fallsunder the food freedom laws and
the cottage food laws here inthe state of Tennessee.
(21:32):
So we can sell green beans wecan sell as long as canned green
beans.
We can sell the freeze-driedfood.
It doesn't matter if it's eggs,milk, meat, whatever, it does
not matter.
If it is shelf-stable, then youare able to sell it and you are
able to make a living from it.
(21:53):
Now, one thing I will say aboutselling canned goods, and I've
said this before when I talkedabout the canning rebels, and so
if you haven't heard thatepisode, let me just reiterate
that if you knowingly use unsafecanning methods you, for
instance, water bath, a low acidfood, rather than pressure
(22:17):
canning your low acid food andthen you give that to someone or
you sell that to someone andthat someone gets sick or dies,
you can be charged withmanslaughter, manslaughter,
prison.
And I know that a lot of peoplehave said my grandma did it,
(22:39):
she was fine, Nobody ever died.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
But all it takes is one time.
That's just like driving drunkLots of people drive drunk, but
all it takes is one wreck whereyou kill somebody and you're
going to prison.
So just be real, real carefulto document your stuff, to
(23:02):
always keep up with, keep goodfood logs.
You know that you can show thatyou, you know, did the very,
very best that you can to keepyour food as safe as possible
for the consumer.
Now, if you're selling atsomewhere like a farmer's market
, something of that naturepretty much all of them, the
(23:26):
farmer's markets require you tohave what's called flip
insurance and that is just aliability insurance that
protects the market and protectsyou in case someone were to get
sick or something were tohappen.
That's a super smart thing todo.
You can always have some sortof liability rider on your farm
insurance and just you know.
(23:49):
And when you do herd shares oryou do contracts with people,
even if it's a farm sharecontract, a herd share contract,
whatever it is you need to putin that contract and again, not
an attorney just telling youwhat I do, this, this is
strictly from personalexperience Always put in your
contract that what you're goingto do.
(24:09):
So you got to have someconsideration what you're going
to do and what they can expectfrom you and what you expect
from them.
But that also put in there whatthey, that they understand that
there's always a risk If it'sraw milk.
They need to sign that theyunderstand that there is a risk
(24:30):
associated with drinking rawmilk.
There is a risk associated withconsuming home canned goods.
There is a risk associated withanything.
Everything there's a riskassociated with driving your car
to the bank.
Everything there's a riskassociated with driving your car
to the bank, but because that'sa decision that you make
(24:50):
between yourself gettingyourself from home to the bank
you know you don't have to signa contract with anybody for that
, but you just have to make surethat people understand and, in
return, you let them know thatyou are going to do your very,
very best to keep the cleanestmilk, the quickest chill
temperature.
You know you're going to takethe utmost care to process those
(25:12):
green beans for the rightamount of time at the right
amount of you know pressure andall of that good stuff.
That you're going that you arekeeping their health and their
safety in mind as you'repreparing food for them to
consume.
That's just the right thing todo.
So as long as you're doingthose things, though, and as
long as it's not malicious andyou're not just careless and
(25:40):
doing things just for the sakeof doing it and not caring about
other people's health andthinking that you, you know more
than you know than the otherpeople who have said that it
needs to be done this way orthat way, then you're going to
be fine and you should be fine,but just know there's always a
risk associated with that aswell, for the consumer and for
(26:01):
the producer.
Um, I'm going to end it here.
You need to think about whetheror not you want to be an LLC
with your farm or a soleproprietor.
There are benefits anddrawbacks to both, and that is
something that you definitelyneed to speak to your attorney
(26:23):
about and your accountant andwhoever else is, you know, are
your advisors on how you proceedwith your business on your farm
.
But one of the things that Iwill say is an LLC does protect
you from them being able to comeafter your personal assets in
the event that there is alawsuit, someone sues you for
(26:44):
whatever, that there is alawsuit, someone sues you for
whatever, and if you have an LLCset up and they are doing
business with that LLC, theycan't come after your personal
assets.
They can't come after yourpersonal car, your home, your
bank accounts.
They can only seize things thatare in the name of the LLC.
Now there is such thing ascalled piercing the corporate
(27:08):
veil, which is possibledepending on the situation.
So just know that as well.
You are not completely andtotally insulated by having a
limited liability corporation ora regular corporation.
It's not 100% foolproof.
The downside to being an LLC,though, is if you need to sue
(27:31):
someone for contract dispute orthey sue you, you cannot
represent yourself in court, atleast not in the state of
Tennessee, which I suspect.
It's that way everywherebecause you can't practice law
without a license, and an LLC isnot you, it's an entity, and so
you cannot represent the entityin court.
You can only represent yourself.
(27:52):
You do have a right to show upin any court and represent
yourself, but you can'trepresent the LLC, so you will
always have to have an attorneygoing forward to show up in
court for you to be there withyou.
You can file stuff to saveyourself some money, work that
out with your attorney, orwhatever.
(28:13):
When it comes to actuallyshowing up in court, you have to
have an attorney with you, sothat is the downside.
The downside to being a soleproprietor is and I don't know
about the tax implications,because that's not my forte I
know there's tax implications onboth sides, one way or another,
(28:34):
but as far as the legal systemgoes, if you are a sole
proprietor, you can show up andrepresent yourself.
But at the same time, thatopens you up to be able to be
any of your assets is fair gameacross the board because it's
you personally doing businesswith the person or with whoever.
(28:55):
So just kind of keep that inmind.
Sole proprietors there's a lotless paperwork, there's a lot
less money involved.
You don't have to file you knowall of that LLC stuff every
year and you don't have to payfees and you can have a you know
any bank account, as long asit's a separate bank account
that you, you know, don'tcommingle funds and all that
(29:17):
kind of stuff.
So just kind of keep that inmind and be sure to talk to you
know your attorney and youraccountant and see what works
best for you.
But just always know that dothe best you can and talk to
your attorney about ways thatyou might be able to be creative
if there's something that youreally want to sell or really
(29:38):
want to provide to the communityand the law might be set up
against you.
Just know that sometimes itjust takes a little creativity.
But with that, I hope that youenjoyed today's podcast.
This is something that's nearand dear to my heart, because I
care so much about freedom.
(29:59):
I care so much about mycommunity and my neighbors and
my children and my children'schildren and my
great-grandchildren all beingable to live life the way that
they want to live it and to feedthemselves and to not ever have
to do anything, no matter whatit or something against their
(30:20):
moral standards, somethingagainst their religious
standards, something against theway that they want to eat, the
way they want to feed themselves, their nutrition choices I
don't care what it is.
You have the right to make yourown decisions.
You have the right to decidewhat's in your life, what you're
(30:44):
going to.
You know you have to toleratepretty much everything, but you
don't have to accept everything,and so and you have that right
you have that right to like whoyou want to like, to not like
who you don't want to like.
You know, and you have theright to allow someone into your
home and not let someone elseinto your home.
That's your home, that's yourright.
That's your.
(31:06):
That's your right.
That's your kitchen and youmake the decisions in your
kitchen.
So thank you so much for tuningin.
Like I said, I hope you'veenjoyed today's topic.
If you like the podcast, itwould be great if you could
subscribe and leave a review.
It helps other people to findour podcast and you can find us
on all the socials atthegormhomesteadcom.
Whatever you have got on thedocket today, remember y'all,
(31:31):
keep it real.
See y'all a guitar pickerplaying all the local clubs and
my mama was a waitress wherethey'd park M18 with a truss.
We didn't have much money.
(31:53):
Times were kinda hard, livingin a trailer on the edge of
Grandpa's farm.
Yeah, I may not come from much,but I've got just enough.
As long as my baby's in my armsand the good Lord knows what's
(32:17):
in my heart.
I refuse to be ashamed.
It's just a sudden thing.
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