April 12, 2024 • 50 mins
Choosing the right dog breed for your lifestyle is crucial. Get tips from Marine dog trainer Blake Marretta in our new podcast episode. Learn to understand and manage breed-specific behaviors!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Kestrel Country Podcast, where we
discuss the people, places andevents all around Kestrel
Country.
Blake moretta, I said thatright.
(00:41):
Yep, thanks for coming in.
I appreciate you having me Talkabout dog training.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That's what I'm told we're talking about.
Anyway, that's what I do.
I just show up and Annika sayshere's who you're talking to and
here's what you're talkingabout.
Great, sounds like fun, perfect.
So I like to start by gettinginto people's background a
little bit.
It's the story the podcasts arereally a story of the people in
(01:09):
this area and the places andevents.
But you're not from this area,neither am I.
No, I'm not.
Where did you grow up?
And, yeah, where are you from?
And maybe give a little bit ofbackground about how you got
into dogs.
Has it always been part of yourlife?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Sure yeah, I uh born and raised in Baton Rouge,
Louisiana, East Baton Rougeparish, and so yeah, not around
here.
Nope, definitely not aroundhere.
In fact, when I drove up here,um to move here, it was 34 hours
, so definitely not from here.
Um, and I did drive, I did notfly, so not fly.
So I grew up in East BatonRouge Parish in the good old
(01:49):
south Louisiana and you know wehad a dog growing up when I was
a little bit older.
Her name was Sophie.
She was kind of a mix between acouple different breeds a lab, a
yellow lab, and a.
It looked like somewhat of aPyrenees, some kind of mutt mix
(02:09):
but she was a sweet dog and umor knows I didn't deserve her.
But she was a great dog, and uhso I.
After high school, I joined theMarine Corps and I was there
for eight years.
Um, along that time time Ibegan to pick up dog training.
I had purchased a Husky.
I loved the breed and their youknow how much they would talk
(02:33):
and be kind of spunky andwhatnot, energetic and all that
their temperament was, I thoughtwas just hilarious and so I
wanted one.
And, being a Marine, we hadcanine handlers that were
designated there was their jobin the Marine Corps to train the
local MWDs, the militaryworking dogs, and so I got with
(02:56):
them.
I read up on the military theirdog training manual, which
they've revised many times, butI read through it very dry naval
letter format document on thatthick.
It was just huge.
And I did that, got with them.
And then there was a guy thatgot out and started his own
business and some of the guysthat worked for him.
(03:18):
I had some on the job kind oftraining and that was back 2014,
.
2015 in New Orleans, louisiana.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And so did you.
I'm going to back you up alittle bit.
So you got that manual andeverything Was that.
Was that, then, your job, orwas that more?
I have this Husky.
I'm going to figure out how totrain it.
Or did you actually getassigned to that job in the, in
the Marines?
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I wish I was already a sergeant and they said I
couldn't.
So, um, you had to be acorporal or below, and more than
likely it would have been abetter, a better fit to be
interesting than a corporal aswell.
So I, um, and I was a careerplanner, uh, so I knew the ins
and outs of doing certain things.
I knew it was going to be areally hard sell anyway, so I
(04:05):
couldn't.
I tried very briefly and I knewwhen it hit certain channels
when it got shot down, like yeah, it's probably not going to fly
.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But you pursued it, so you thought you would enjoy
it enough to want to pursue thatat that time.
Yes, and again I mean, was thisbecause of Sophie growing up?
Were you just like man, I loveanimals, I love dogs, or um, I
guess it's just.
I'm kind of I'm curious likepeople who are drawn to that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Um, well, I I did love animals.
Um and um.
You know the way that Iinteracted with animals before
when I was a child.
I wish that I had a little bitmore guidance and a little bit
more help.
I think that would have beenbest.
There were a lot of things thatI missed out on.
(04:56):
With the animals that we didhave.
And I didn't take advantage oflike I should have.
You know it's.
It's similar to a Marine beingstationed in Hawaii and not
having the best time of theirlife there, they're just not
taking advantage of the thingsthat are there.
So that was that was part of theproblem and, uh, we were busy.
(05:18):
We had lots of things going ongrowing up, so it's, it is what
it is.
But loved animals, uh, lovedbeing outdoors.
And I've got this Husky now andshe is rambunctious as all get
out and I've got some crazystories that are probably not
the best to be talking aboutright now of things that she did
(05:40):
.
He did to me, like while I wassleeping, okay, and just stuff
that would you know, it wouldmake you laugh and it would
probably make you cry.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And this was in.
You said again, you said NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
New Orleans, louisiana, so you were in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Louisiana Husky Yep.
Is that crazy that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
crazy, oh it's crazy I didn't think I'd be stationed
back home.
Okay, I, I was um, I wasstationed and I I joined and
then I went to hawaii for about38 months and then, after that
and some training anddeployments in between, I left
and I got stationed in lou inthe 4th Marine.
Division, the Reserve Divisionof the Marine Corps, and that's
(06:29):
where I was like, well, I'llprobably settle down here and
get myself a dog.
I should probably get this dogtrained and I would like to
learn how to do it myself.
So that's what got me startedLoved animals, loved hunting,
loved hunting, loved camping,loved the outdoors.
Um, really loved dogs.
Just had a big affinity towardsthe animal and, um, I wanted to
(06:53):
get down and dirty, get myhands um, get my hands dirty,
you know, and do the work.
I wanted to learn how to traindogs for myself and, at the time
, just for my, for my Husky andher name was Shadow, so just for
Shadow, I wanted to learn yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So how did that go?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It went great.
You know, shadow was.
Huskies are notoriouslydifficult to train, and the
difficulty in it is not thatthey're just very hard to train,
and the difficulty in it is notthat they're just very hard to
train, it's that every dogtrainer, if they're worth their
(07:33):
salt.
We all use the exact sameprinciples to train dogs, but
our methods differ trainer totrainer, and so you know, if
you're using pressure, if you'reusing positive reinforcement,
negative reinforcement, positivepunishment, negative punishment
, whatever it is that you'reusing, if you're talking about
pressure, if you are talkingabout reward, um, you need to
(07:55):
find what works for the dogyou're still using the exact
same principles.
And so she.
She did great, because I spenthours and hours with her every
single day, hours and hours andhours with her, every single day
, hours and hours and hours withher, and that helped me work
out a lot of the kinks that Ihad.
Still not a dog trainer at thetime, I was just learning and
with my own personal dog was agood start.
(08:15):
But then, after that, begun thehard.
Lessons of okay, now I'm goingto go attempt to train other
people's dogs.
Lessons of okay, now I'm goingto go attempt to train other
people's dogs and what happenswhen they're not as sweet as
mine and I get bit, so like I'vegot scars on my hands and on my
my legs, um, you know, andthere's thankfully none that
(08:36):
have brought me to the hospital.
You know, god's been very goodto me in that respect, but there
was some.
there was a learning curve thathad to take place and how I
should interact with the animaland how I shouldn't interact
with the animal, especially whenthey're not mine.
So with mine it went great,absolutely great.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So then, what was that transition into training
other people's dogs?
Were you still in the MarineCorps?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Still in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And so it was like hey, here, this is a potential
side hustle for me.
Yeah, Was that kind of the?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It began as a hobby and then very rapidly turned
into a side hustle as people sawmy dog and how well behaved she
was and all the things she wasdoing.
And I was on base in NewOrleans on bell chase and as
people saw that they were know,can you do that with my dog?
And I sat there and I said,well, I guess I could, I could
(09:30):
try.
And so I started doing that andpeople are paying me a little
bit, some money here and thereto do it and I'm just applying
the same things.
I started hitting some someblockage.
I started hitting some some somepretty big speed bumps because
some of the things that I wasapplying with my dog weren't
working the exact same way and Iwould.
(09:51):
I would explain it um, like, uh, it was very, I was very rigid
in how I was going about it andso I, I, I was applying these
principles, but I didn't knowhow to bend the principles and
match the method to thatparticular dog.
And so for the next three years, as I'm developing my process
(10:12):
and how I'm doing things withdogs, I'm really having a hard
time because I don't understand,um, the wisdom or the
self-control that, the balancein how I should be training and
whatnot, and that was a.
That was a bit of a um adifficult.
That was a challenge for me.
It really was.
I was kind of stagnant for alittle bit.
(10:32):
Um but obviously we got pastthat and here we are, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So what were some of the things?
I think that's an interestingthing about a, a well-trained
dog, right?
I mean, obviously that's whateverybody wants, sure?
Um, like, what were some of thethings that your dog, that
shadow, had or maybe not had?
But like, were there thingsthat you can point to to say,
yeah, that's, this is why peoplewere like, hey, can you do that
(10:59):
with my dog?
Like, how was she?
What are some of?
Maybe the?
Um?
Another way to ask it might bewhat are some of the key results
of like that you say awell-trained dog acts like this
or does these things?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, so, um, uh, in terms of reactivity, I would
walk past dogs six feet or lessaway from me that they couldn't
get to us, um, cause they wereon a leash or what have you, and
they would act just terribly,absolutely terrible, and their
poor owners, they feltembarrassed.
You know their dogs pullinglike crazy and lunging and
growling and trying to snap atme or my dog, and you know so.
(11:36):
They would see the differencethere, the contrast.
My dog is looking and then shejust doesn't care.
Her body language doesn't skipa beat, she doesn't change her
behavior even for a moment, kindof go.
Hey, what is that?
Why are you looking at me thisway?
it was just oh and she justkeeps going and she's trotting
next to me, which shows me thatshe's happy, um, and she looks
(12:00):
up at me and I'm like good job,you know good job.
She's like, yeah, I'm doing agood job, and so we're good job.
She's like, yeah, I'm doing agood job, and so we're walking
past these dogs, we're walkingthrough highly populated areas,
because I took her all over theplace in New Orleans and I would
heal her for miles and miles.
I mean I think one time I healedher for about 10 miles and it
was about five miles and then itwas you can go run and play,
(12:22):
and then it was you can go runand play, and then it was come
back and heal.
She needed a break and it tookme a while to work her up to
that kind of work, but she didfantastic, just absolutely
fantastic.
So that was part of it.
And then I was able to, from100 yards away about 100, 150
yards away, I could give hercommands without saying a word
(12:43):
and I could just point up andshe would sit.
I could give her commandswithout saying a word and I
could just point up and shewould sit.
I could point down and shewould lie down, no leash,
nothing, and so I would.
People would see that and theywould see tons of people around
their dogs and whatnot.
And she was obeying me, she wasfocused on me, which, again,
these are things that are hardto do with a Husky.
And it's not again, it's notbecause they're just so darn
(13:07):
stubborn.
It's kind of like not every kidlearns the same.
I think a lot of kids probablylearn similarly, so you can
squeeze them into categories,but not every kid does, and
you've got to be creative and soin that similar kind of process
, I had to kind of bend things alittle bit and, with her being
(13:28):
able to do these distancecommands, be focused on me and
obey me, and do so cheerfullywhich actually I'll get into
that in just a moment, becauseat first it was not but
something, something changed inme which made me a better dog
trainer, I think.
But yeah, so she would do thatand then I would, from 100 yards
(13:50):
away, I would tell her to jumpup on this platform and just
stay there, and she would staythere for an hour or so.
We'd be out in the park, we'dbe out in Algiers or somewhere
else on the West Bank, and shewould just obey everything.
Didn't matter what the contextwas.
We'd be weaving in and out ofpeople without a leash.
(14:14):
Now, whether that was legal ornot for me to do probably not At
the time, you know, beingyounger and not as familiar with
things, probably wasn't.
But, um, people were enamoredby it.
They were just wow, we, we want, we want what you're doing.
Can you do that with our dog?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
so that's kind of yeah started yeah, I mean that
sounds amazing, all right, likethat's.
That's the kind of thing thateverybody kind of dreams of,
right, whether you're, no matterthe type of dog.
Um, so you had some some bumpy.
Do you think some of that wasyour?
Like you said, you spent hoursand hours with that dog and
(14:54):
she's your dog right.
So how much of that istranslates over into a dog
trainer?
Versus the owner who has that?
I would assume I'm making someassumptions.
Do does, would you say.
Versus the owner who has that Iwould assume I'm making some
assumptions.
Would you say, does the ownerhave just a different bond with
the dog?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, I was being intentional in a very specific
kind of way.
I prefer I don't teach, excuseme, I don't take dogs away from
owners anymore and train them.
I did that early on and I wouldsay that was great for me to
learn, but it was absolutelyterrible for the product that I
(15:34):
was trying to achieve and it wasnecessary for me to find that
and do that.
And then stumble through all ofit and then realize you know, I
should probably change this up,stumble through all of it and
then realize you know, I shouldprobably change this up because
the owners have all thecontinuity with their dogs.
Um, you can't, you can't servetwo masters.
I can make myself your masterfor a short period of time and
things can go really well, andthen I can
(15:56):
hand off back to your owner andthings are going to be chaotic.
So, uh, I don't do that anymore.
Those were one of the bumps.
One of the other bumps was, youknow, in my much more formative
years as a man and being in theMarine Corps, everything is
very strict, very structured,very rigid, and that's the key
(16:17):
word is rigid.
It's very wooden, it's veryblack and white, and so, if
things didn't go my way, I washarder on the dog.
I was harder on the dog, um, andthat was something that wasn't
beneficial to me as a trainerand it wasn't beneficial for my
dog's learning and growingprocess, so I had a lot of
(16:39):
maturing to do throughout all ofthat and with any, with any art
or skill.
That's artsy and I would say dogtraining is is similar because
you're dealing with organicthey're, they're animals,
they're not robots.
Um, you can't just put hardwareor software in.
Everything's changed.
Um, you really have to mold,and it's incremental, it's
(17:00):
progressive, it just little bylittle, the steps in order to
produce the thing that I was.
I was getting um, so learningto be patient was a big one, um,
and marine corps didn't set meup for that, not at all, not by
a long shot.
Uh, at least not to do socheerfully and um, but going
(17:22):
back to what you were saying,owners versus trainers, trainers
understand canine behavior andthey know how to respond
appropriately.
I wouldn't say, uh, respond um,the right way.
I would say respondappropriately, because it's
going to differ ever so slightlydog to dog, um, and it really
depends on what the dog is doingand it really depends on what
(17:45):
the dog is doing.
So, if you know most of myclients, they're looking at me
when I'm training a dog Me.
I'm not looking at them, I'mlooking at the dog and I'm
looking at the dog's bodylanguage Now occasionally I will
look at them because I want tosee okay, why did the dog do
that?
And then I see the owner.
The owner is tensed up, they'reanxious, they've got a real
(18:07):
firm grip on that leash and uh,they're.
They're very, um, they'relacking confidence and whatnot.
And that's a lot of what I do.
It's when I'm teaching folks,folks, how to train their dogs,
I'm uh teaching, uh encouragingand I'm I'm Well, that's really
what I'm doing.
I'm really encouraging thembecause I think everybody's got
it in them.
(18:28):
They have all the keyingredients, all the key
elements, naturally, to be ableto do this.
It's just they've never done itbefore, and so I'm kind of
helping to develop that in them.
Why does my dog act this way?
Well, we're looking at twodifferent things.
I'm looking at the dog'sbehavior.
(18:49):
You might be looking at theother dog that has a problem
with your dog.
I'm looking at your dog.
I don't care about the otherperson's dog, I care about your
dog.
So when I look at your dog, Ican see all the problems, the
small decisions that that dog ismaking, right then and there,
and nobody is teaching him to dosomething different.
So I can't fix the other dogbecause they haven't hired me,
(19:12):
but I can help you fix your dog.
So that's, that's the bigdifference.
And me spending hours and hoursand hours every single day on
my dog, taking her for walks,doing training here and there,
it wasn't one gigantic sessionthat would have exhausted me
emotionally and physically.
It wasn't one gigantic sessionthat would have exhausted me
emotionally and physically.
It's a very emotionallydraining process to deal with an
(19:34):
animal where you have to bestern one second and then,
immediately after, you have tobe very sweet and praise,
praising them, and so youremotions are this and that, this
and that, and if you controlthem well, you can do things at
the right time with the rightemphasis and so forth.
So those are, um, are the rightlevel, those are, um, some of
(19:59):
the challenges, but those arethe things that were helpful
that while I was spending allthis time with my dog, which is
I was single at the time, so itwas very much feasible.
But looking back when, as amarried man.
I wouldn't have that much timeNot, not at all.
Okay, so I did that and I wasable to pick up on my dog's
(20:19):
behaviors in a variety ofdifferent situations and see her
baseline.
That's what made a bigdifference for me from going to
just being a dog owner tobeginning the process of
becoming a dog trainer, and thenI began to see it in other dogs
and then I began to realizethat I could.
(20:40):
I could catch this If I could.
If I could catch it at theright moment, when things are
small, I can avoid the explosionwith the dog.
So that was that would be hugefor me, especially like when I
was starting out working verydifficult dogs.
That would just come at yourthroat.
You know, I remember I went toNew York city and stay with a
(21:00):
family and they had a Germanshepherd and he would defecate
all in the house and, um, theywere kind of pulling their hair
out but at the same time theywere giving him Oreos and stuff.
Um, but you know so, um.
(21:22):
But I remember I didn't haveany tools with me and we brought
him down to ABC city and, uh,they were restraining him and he
, he lunged at me, he jumped upin the air.
It was about eight feet away,lunged up in the air, and I said
, okay, let him go.
And they said let him go andeverybody walking by who wants
this dog to get put down becauseof a terror he's been for
(21:45):
fighting other animals umpeople's dogs or other people,
little kids or whatever.
I said, okay, let him go.
And they said are you sure?
And everybody is just watchingpeople I've never met before and
I said, yep, let him go.
And as soon as he jumped up,you could hear the gasp at least
30 people in the air.
(22:05):
You know like, oh no, what'sgonna happen.
And so I sidestepped just acouple feet and I grabbed him by
the scruff of his neck and I,controlling the neck, I brought
him down to the ground.
I didn't slam him to the groundor anything like that, but I
held him down and I had, Ipositioned myself over him where
(22:25):
he couldn't.
He couldn't struggle too muchto where he could get up and I
just waited and waited, andwaited, and waited, and waited
some more and everybody'sfreaking out, and eventually
that dog just went and I let go,got up and he turned around and
(22:47):
looked me on the face.
I said, ok, you're ready towork, put a leash on him, let's
go.
And so that was.
That was a very instrumentalmoment for me, just kind of you
know, in the way of danger.
This dog has his jaws open andhe's jumping at my face midair,
(23:10):
and I just kind of sidestep and,you know, help him out.
In that moment Something hedesperately wanted was who's
going to pull my bluff card?
Who's going to hold meaccountable?
Who's going to?
Who's going to care enough tolove me with some tough love?
Who's going to who's going todo that?
And I, I helped him in thatmoment.
(23:32):
He, he loved me after.
So how'd you know that wouldwork?
I didn't, it just did work.
I, yeah, it just kind of worked.
It was, um, I would never dothat today.
Um, looking back, you didn't,didn't know what you were.
No, I'd been training dogs forabout two, two and a half years
(23:54):
and, um, for several months Ihad coaching and guiding um
doing somewhat on the job,training.
But that was from folks thatthey were.
They would tell me hey, uh,when you get off work from the
Marine Corps, uh, if we've got adog for you to train, come over
and we'll help you.
We want you to train the dogthat we're training and we'll
(24:14):
teach you and we'll coach youand whatnot.
I said great, most of thosedogs were at midnight or at 2 am
I was like good Lord man thisis I'm tired.
I don't know about you guys, butI'm tired and so it was.
But I'm tired and so it was.
You know, I, I didn't.
What I lacked was a mentorthrough and through.
(24:35):
So a lot of things I really hadto learn just the hardest way,
trying different things,stumbling through it.
Well, that was a dead end.
Well, that would.
That didn't work.
I messed things up with thatdog while I did things good with
that dog.
What can I learn from both andum?
So those were defining momentsfor me as a trainer.
Um yeah, those were.
(24:58):
Those were defining moments.
So I but two, two and a half,three years in actually it was.
It was two years, two years inwhen I went to New York.
Yeah, just about 2017-ish, 2016, 2017.
And I didn't know what I know.
Now I look back and I'm likeboy.
That was foolish.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Were you still in the Marine Corps at that time?
Still in the Marine Corps?
Okay, still in the Marine Corps.
So it was still kind of sidehustle, yep.
So it was just the word justbuilding People would refer you
to somebody else, like people inNew York.
How did they find you?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, that's a funny story, so that's actually
probably a story for anothertime.
These were folks that I knew.
Um, I was just going to paythem a visit and it was kind of
a vacation period for me so itwas connection.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It wasn't like you had a website, you're starting
to get a following and you weregetting people to bring you out
to new york to train dogs.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, I had some friends in new york.
They said, hey, you're dogtraining now and I said well,
yeah, well, yeah, I kind of sortof am.
I said, well, we could sure useyour help with our dog.
I said okay, sure, let's seewhat you got.
And then it went from there.
But in two days I had that doghealing with me around New York
City.
He wasn't reactive, we didn'thave a big problem with other
(26:25):
dogs and whatnot.
And he active, we didn't have abig problem with other dogs and
whatnot.
Um, and he was super sweet andfriendly with me, not just with
his family, um, and people wereasking me for business cards.
I had some, just not with me.
I left them in Louisiana.
I didn't think I'd be doingthis.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, um, so so where'd he grow from there?
You did it for a few yearswhile you were in the Marine
Corps.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, well, really, in 2017, March 23, 2017, I had a
huge change in my life.
A huge change in my life, um, I, the Lord, had saved me.
(27:15):
I became a Christian Um, andthat was the biggest defining
moment for me, because a lot ofthe things that I was doing in
my training practices, Irealized I don't know if this is
right anymore for me to do thisthis way.
The way that I was taught Umand and some of it, just the way
that I did it was my own fault.
It was all my fault, but the um.
So coming to grips with thatand then trying to figure out
(27:40):
now where can I go to findbetter practice, boy, that was
hard.
There wasn't much out there, um,there was a lot of good
methodology, absolutelyatrocious philosophy, um, and it
was actually very detrimental.
It didn't, it didn't line upwith the methodology and the
(28:02):
teaching.
So all of the undergirdingprinciples, they just it didn't,
uh, it didn't match very well.
But you see, these people arejust brilliant dog trainers.
They really know what they'redoing, but they don't know why
they're doing it, how they'redoing it, um, why even can they
do it?
Um, and they just they're allvery, they all seemed, when you
(28:27):
talk to them, they seem justlike they just had a rough go of
things in life.
And so I was sitting there like, well, I'd love to learn from
these folks, but they just don'tseem like kindred spirits.
And so I actually starteddigging in to my faith as a
(28:50):
Christian and began justscouring the Bible over and over
and over and over and over andover again, and what I found
were all the principles that Iwas applying, and then some, and
then some more than that, and Ibegan to just kind of sit there
and meditate over them.
And then I started to try topractice them and things changed
(29:14):
.
Things changed big time, andfor the better.
I started having much betterresults, um, and I started.
You know, it's not that I'mdoing things drastically
different from folks who are notgoing to the bible.
The bible is not a dog trainingbook for one um, but it teaches
on everything, and theprinciples it lays forth they're
(29:38):
all there.
So I took those principles andthe ones that I already had and
I began to see okay, now, how,how can I make this?
How can I make these principlesdeliver to the animal in a way
that honors God?
That was the principle questionthat I was asking myself how
can I do that?
Because if I can't do that,what am I even doing?
(30:01):
And a lot of that was just Ineed to be cheerful and joyful
when I'm working the animal.
If I'm working a problem dog, Idon't need to come down hard on
the animal.
God considers our frame, wherewe are, and he works us
accordingly.
And then so I need to considermore Where's the dog at in the
(30:22):
training process?
Ground zero, step one, step two, step three?
Where are they at?
Where's their emotional stateat?
Um, you know where?
Why are they acting the waythat they are?
Um, what are they missing?
I walk into some homes and youknow the animal, by and large,
the.
The problem is the animal islacking discipline and structure
, um, and once that's done, theanimal is oftentimes lacking joy
(30:47):
, and so I don't want anobedient dog, I don't want a
happy dog, I want a cheerfully,joyfully, obedient dog, because
that's what I'm called to be.
So I need a dog to do that.
And it really boiled down toI'm looking for someone to
imitate.
Who do I imitate?
And then I found.
(31:08):
Jesus, or rather he found me andpulled me out of my problems.
And then I said well, if I wantto learn how to train dogs
better, I should probablyimitate the perfect man.
And that's where everythingchanged for me, and that's you
(31:30):
know in terms of growth andwhatnot.
I left Louisiana, moved hereafter I got out of the Marine.
Corps shortly thereafter and2020, been here and I've been
doing it ever since.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So you really went full time at it after coming up
here, yeah, yeah.
So what would I mean?
You mentioned a few differenttimes these principles Back at
the beginning.
You talked about kind of howmost everybody is working from
the same principles.
Sure, but they have differentmethodology, the principles that
(32:00):
you were applying that.
You then saw similar things inthe Bible.
What are a couple of those keyprinciples with?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
dog training.
Okay, so I'll give you a coupledifferences, I'll give you some
and I'll give you thedifferences.
So BF Skinner has a, it's not adiagram.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It's a quadrant of training and it has.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Uh, over here you have the positives, over here
you have the negatives.
Now, in dog training, positivedoesn't mean that it's good,
negative doesn't mean that it'sbad it means addition,
subtraction, so positivereinforcement you're adding a
reinforce, reinforcer, um,positive punishment.
So, or excuse me, positives overhere, negatives over here.
(32:48):
So, positive reinforcement,positive punishment.
You're adding a reinforcer,adding a punisher.
You're retracting a reinforcerin order to.
You're retracting something inorder to reinforce something.
Or you are retracting order toreinforce something, or you are
retracting something in order topunish the dog, like, in other
(33:13):
words, a reward withholding areward, like taking a privilege
away, kind of a thing.
Now, the differences for me inthese would be one as a
Christian, the punishing,although it's a biblical term
and although previously peoplewould have said well, we know
what that means and we know howwe should go about it, we know
(33:33):
what the Bible says on that.
Today, punishment seems to havetaken a very different meaning,
and it's more so wrath, anger,um just, there's a lot of ego
involved, um, a lot of pride.
Your pride gets pricked, youhave bad expectations, you think
(33:56):
yourself more highly than youought and, um you, when your
expectations are not met, youget angry and you take it out.
That seems to be a moreappropriate cultural
understanding of the wordpunishment today.
So the word that I use, the wordthat I prefer, is discipline,
because discipline incorporatesteaching, chastising a bunch of
(34:18):
others, but for the animal,teaching, chastising, physical
correction and then restoration,punishment, never incorporates
those things.
Now, if the dog does learnthings from experiencing
physical pain or physicaldiscomfort, that's true, but
teaching should always be donefrom a place of joy.
It should always be cheerful andjoyful.
And you're building a tool,Chastising.
(34:41):
You have your physical wordthat you don't want the dog to
do something no off, whatever itis.
And then you have your physicalcorrection.
There you have your leash pops,your scruffing, your a swat,
whatever it is that you do, andthen you have restoration.
There's no restoration on thepunisher side.
Now where I can potentially getinto trouble with this is that
(35:06):
while I call it restoration,some other folks can call it
something very similar.
They can say they're recoveringthe dog, helping the dog,
raising their spirits, and Ithink that's all perfectly fine.
But I see this as I'm supposedto initiate, because God is the
one who initiates.
So I need to initiate theteaching, the chastising and the
discipline and I need toinitiate the restoration, so I
(35:29):
bring the dog back.
If I do this properly, then Ishould be able to say with the
psalmist that Yahweh hasdisciplined me severely, but
because of this, the gates ofrighteousness have opened up to
me and I went through withthanksgiving to the one who
disciplined me severely.
But because of this, the gatesof righteousness have opened up
to me and I went through withthanksgiving to the one who
disciplined me.
Right and so that?
(35:50):
These are some of theprinciples.
And then it's well, the reasonthat your dog is acting out is
because your dog doesn't thinkthat they belong to your family.
They don't.
They don't belong to yourhousehold.
Well, what on earth would makeyou make you think that?
Well, because the bible tellsme if you're without discipline,
you're no legitimate child, andthe same thing applies with the
animal, in fact, everything umthat lives underneath your roof,
(36:12):
everything so um.
If the animal is withoutdiscipline, they do not feel
loved and they'll act out.
They desperately needdiscipline and they'll act out,
they desperately need disciplineand they need a firm,
self-controlled, cheerful hand.
Uh, who's not going to abusethem?
And typically I run into I runinto folks regularly, um, that
(36:34):
have a misunderstanding aboutthe two terms, when I when I use
them that way.
When I'm dealing with um, Ialways try to deal with husbands
and wives.
Uh, if, if I'm dealing with, Ialways try to deal with husbands
and wives.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
if I'm dealing with a family, Otherwise it's a little
bit easier.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But usually folks that have families.
It's a little bit harder, butI'll tell them you need to
discipline your dog, you need torecover your dog.
You need to restore your dog andwhen they do it the first time
it's clunky, it looks pretty bad.
And that's where I come in andI just start encouraging them.
(37:10):
It's okay, you can do it,you've got this, you've got all
the ingredients already, I'mjust helping you bring it out.
And with that there's alwayschallenges and learning and
whatnot, problems you've got towork through.
If they discipline too lightly,they're going to create big
(37:30):
problems for the dog.
If they discipline way too hard, if they're harsh in their
correction and not only did theydo that physically but also
their demeanor was just angrythen they're going to create a
problem.
You either have a dog whobecomes very durable to
correction, or you have a dogthat becomes very fearfully
(37:51):
obedient, so he's terrified andfear aggression could come out
of that.
Or he becomes aggressively, hebecomes confident in that he can
take corrections and then youhave a different problem on your
hand.
So those are the two ditchesunder-correcting,
over-correcting, and then in themiddle you have just
(38:13):
self-controlled discipline.
It's severe for the occasion,it's good for the animal, good
for the owner, and the dog lovesthe owner more.
They trust the hand ofcorrection just as much as they
do the hand of affection.
That's what we want.
We don't want the dog to runaway in fear.
We want the dog to come to us.
We don't want the dog to beafraid.
So those are, those are the bigprinciples.
(38:36):
It's really just joy,discipline, discipline, joy.
And if you screw up.
If you screw up, then the wayto fix that is restitution.
That's a word that we don'treally talk about a whole lot
anymore.
But restitution, Not with dogtraining, certainly, definitely
not with dog training.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But that's if you screw up with disciplining your
dog and you think oh golly, Imessed up my relationship with
my animal, now what do I do?
Yeah, well, there is a way.
There is a way to restore theanimal's trust and to get things
back on track where they needto be.
So that's what I try to do withfolks, and those are some of
(39:18):
the principles at play.
Those are the big ones.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, interesting.
Now you said that there's a lotof all dogs are different,
right?
Just like kids take instructionin different ways and that kind
of thing.
Sure how much of that, I guess.
How important is that?
How much of that goes into it?
You know how important is aparticular dog and the breed or
(39:45):
the personality of the dog tothose results.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, that's so.
I think how I want to answerthis, because it could go on for
a while.
I want to answer this becauseit could go on for a while and I
think probably the best way togo about it is I have lots of
families, lots of folks who askme what dog should I get?
(40:12):
I'm sure you do.
What dog should I get?
You know, I've got a big family.
It's just me.
You know, I'm a single guy,single gal.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
You know what do I do .
Speaker 2 (40:24):
What dog should I get ?
I used to tell folks a lot ofdifferent things, and now what I
tell folks is I ask them aquestion.
I say, okay, what do you wantto manage for the rest of the
dog's life?
What's the thing that you wantto have to be on top of?
And what's the thing that youwant to have to be on top of and
(40:45):
, um, what's the detriment?
And usually with your, withyour, um, your herding dogs, uh,
which can also fall in thecategory of your working dogs,
uh, your shepherds, most of themis if you have a big family and
you have little ones runningaround, then they're going to
jump off all over the place, goafter the kids, nip them in the
(41:06):
ankles and try to herd them intoa corner.
That can be pretty painful forthe children and the dog is not
biting, but they are nipping.
The dog is bred to do this.
You're not going to get rid ofit.
It was put there by God.
You're not going to get rid ofit.
Put there by god, you're notgoing to get rid of it.
(41:28):
So, um, it just hundreds ofyears of breeding going into
this one animal, uh, whatever itis.
Um, that's the thing I alwaystell folks you can't fight this.
You can manage it, but youcan't fight it.
So you've got to developstructure for the dog, things
for the dog to do, to kind ofmitigate these things.
But don't think that you'vefixed the problem.
Uh, you can think of it like abesetting sin.
It's always going to come back.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So how do you want to deal with it?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Now with other dogs, say the GSP or the Lab, it's
different.
So typically it's shedding anenergy.
That's really.
Those are, generally speaking,the only things that folks have
to manage.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
You know, I say, boy, if all you have to worry about
is shedding and energy thankyour lucky stars, man, you don't
have a problem on your hand.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
They say, well, I don't really like the shedding.
I was like well, I'm sorry, Idon't know what to tell you,
it's an animal.
Well, I'm sorry, I don't knowwhat to tell you, it's an animal
.
So the shedding and the energy,if you've got a big family,
these dogs tend to doextraordinarily well.
That's not to say that thereare other dogs that won't.
(42:38):
I have a big blackCzechoslovakian, czech line
German Shepherd.
He's the sweetest dog.
I can do bite work with him,tracking off leash obedience,
but he's just super sweet andthat's, um, that's something to
be prized.
When you're looking at guardianor working breeds, it's, uh, you
don't want a guardian breedthat's going to go haywire.
(42:59):
Um, you know, and we're talkingabout the context of a family
or, just as my working dog, ifhe's a police dog, that's a
completely different story.
Maybe some guys want a harderdog than others.
Uh, for specific reasons, youknow, depending on where they're
at, where they're located inthe jobs they typically come
across.
So, um, it just depends.
But there's plenty of otherbreeds out there.
(43:21):
The Bernie's Mountain Dog isone of them.
A lot of the hunting dogs.
They're excellent breeds, withthe exception of maybe some and
the ones that I don't recommendfolks get, like the Australian
Shepherd, the Blue Heeler, thePoodle.
It's not because they're badbreeds, it's because it's not a
good fit.
It's not a good fit and I runinto trouble with some folks
(43:45):
because they say well, I think,that every dog should just be
able to obey me, you know, or?
I should just be able to loveevery dog and it should work
just fine.
I said, yeah, but it doesn't.
The world doesn't work that way.
It wasn't made that way.
There's good fits and there'sbad fits.
Just like I couldn't marry justanybody and not just anybody
could marry me.
I have one wife, she has onehusband, and we're a good fit
(44:09):
for each other.
Um, I can't, I can't.
Um, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
So, and if it, doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Good luck trying to make it work.
I've never met anybody that can.
I've never met anybody that can.
You might be able to make mostof it work, but that's about it.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that you keep coming
back to the owners.
You know, like talking abouttraining, it's like you're
training the owners in a lot ofways, more than you're training
the dog.
People ask you about what kindof dog to get.
You're really more interviewingthe owners, right?
It's just interesting.
You don't necessarily thinkabout that.
You kind of think of people whowork with dogs, people with dog
(44:47):
trainers.
They're really animal focused.
And it's not like you don'twork with animals a lot.
But you're only going to havesuccess if you're working with
the people, if you watch me walkwith my clients when we're
working their dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
the thing that I'm honing in on is you is you need
to correct that you weren't firmenough.
You need to be more cheerfulwith your dog.
You need to, um, be a littlebit more bubbly and excited and
um, uh, demonstrate that you aremuch more enthusiastic about
your dog's performance here thanyou were there, and really it's
their character.
That's what I'm honing in on.
I want them to have controlover their emotions with regard
(45:30):
with respect to the animal.
That's a that's.
That's more than half thebattle.
I mean, I can teach you how touse a prong collar, an electric
collar, a choke chain, aMartingale system, whatever it
is.
I can teach you how to use abunker.
You know these are simple andvery easy, but the self-control
(45:51):
over your emotions and over yourtiming, your actions and where
your eyes are wandering, thoseare hard.
I will tell folks all the timeyou're not looking at your dog.
You need to look at your dog.
Stop looking at that dog.
Look at your dog.
Don't worry about that dog.
Look at your dog.
Your dog just made a baddecision.
You didn't do anything about it, right?
(46:12):
So the response, the weight ofresponsibility, is entirely on
the owner.
However, the dog is not perfect.
The dog may have not sinned inthe garden, but we sure did, and
it affected them, and so, umyou know, they're uh, they're
100% afraid of the image of Godthat's on man.
(46:32):
So you know, with that in mind,yeah, you really shouldn't go up
to random people's dogs and petthem.
Why You're not their owner,you're not their master?
Well, why would they be afraidof me?
Because Genesis nine says theywill be, because God made it
that way.
Are you going to try to undothat?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
What about?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
some dogs.
Some dogs are Well, yeah,because these dogs, if they're
afraid their fight or flightresponse, they come wagging
their tail up to you.
I give up, please don't beat me.
Other dogs they run away.
Other dogs, yet still they'llfight you.
So it depends on what's goingto happen.
(47:12):
And then some dogs if yousocialize them properly from a
very young age, you can mitigatea lot of that.
You're not going to make itperfect, but you can mitigate a
lot.
And typically those breeds arethe ones that have a high
threshold for their sociability.
They just have a very highthreshold for it.
Their batteries are almostrecharged Like.
The Lab is a good example.
The Golden Retriever, theEnglish Lab, the American Lab,
(47:36):
those are easy examples that Ican just throw out there and
everybody's like oh yeah, got itit.
Yeah, these dogs are great.
Um, an English Bulldog isanother good one.
These dogs do excellent in umbig social environments.
You take my German Shepherd andput him in the midst of 100
people, he'll freak out.
(47:57):
He might bite somebody byaccident.
He could probably scare him.
Um, if I put an English lab,american lab, in the midst of
all those people who, he'llprobably sit there and want
everybody to pet him, go aroundand say this is great, this is
good.
He'll probably sit in thecorner and come back out and you
know he's um, this is, this isjust the the breeding this is,
(48:19):
this is the dog, and, uh, it'swhat I have to deal with.
I can't fix that.
I have to.
There are constraints that Ihave to work around, so yeah,
how early should somebody getstarted?
Training their dog.
Eight weeks, eight weeks, eightweeks, right when they come
home.
Yep, right when they come home.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
And how do I'm going to have to wrap it up, Yep?
How do people find you to getstarted at eight weeks?
Yep, it's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
this is the time of year, everybody's getting
puppies and it is, oh mygoodness, and um, there's so
many folks in this area that arehaving litters, um, tons of
breeders, people who are wantingto be breeders.
I just got a phone call theother day about some bernie
doodle puppies that, uh, justthey're uh, they're new, they're
new and uh and they're they'rebeautiful, they're just gorgeous
(49:11):
coat.
but anybody who wants to get incontact with me, they can
contact me through my website,04k9.com.
That's the letter o, the numberfour and a K and a ninecom.
I've got a little tab therewhere they can contact me and
it'll put in their information,a little blurb.
Or you can email me at04K9.training at gmailcom and
(49:37):
you can also find my businesscards at.
Pets Are People Too.
I work with them every now andthen.
Sometimes they'll see metraining dogs in and out of
there.
You can find me walking downMoscow, downtown Moscow,
training dogs around Main Street.
I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Perfect.
Yeah Well, thanks Blake.
Super interesting, and I gotsome stuff to work on, so that's
good too.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Great Thanks, Blake.
All right Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Thanks for joining us .
Like, share, subscribe.
We'll see you next week.
This is the Kestrel Country Podcast, where we
discuss the people, places andevents all around Kestrel
Country.
Blake moretta, I said thatright.
(00:41):
Yep, thanks for coming in.
I appreciate you having me Talkabout dog training.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That's what I'm told we're talking about.
Anyway, that's what I do.
I just show up and Annika sayshere's who you're talking to and
here's what you're talkingabout.
Great, sounds like fun, perfect.
So I like to start by gettinginto people's background a
little bit.
It's the story the podcasts arereally a story of the people in
(01:09):
this area and the places andevents.
But you're not from this area,neither am I.
No, I'm not.
Where did you grow up?
And, yeah, where are you from?
And maybe give a little bit ofbackground about how you got
into dogs.
Has it always been part of yourlife?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Sure yeah, I uh born and raised in Baton Rouge,
Louisiana, East Baton Rougeparish, and so yeah, not around
here.
Nope, definitely not aroundhere.
In fact, when I drove up here,um to move here, it was 34 hours
, so definitely not from here.
Um, and I did drive, I did notfly, so not fly.
So I grew up in East BatonRouge Parish in the good old
(01:49):
south Louisiana and you know wehad a dog growing up when I was
a little bit older.
Her name was Sophie.
She was kind of a mix between acouple different breeds a lab, a
yellow lab, and a.
It looked like somewhat of aPyrenees, some kind of mutt mix
(02:09):
but she was a sweet dog and umor knows I didn't deserve her.
But she was a great dog, and uhso I.
After high school, I joined theMarine Corps and I was there
for eight years.
Um, along that time time Ibegan to pick up dog training.
I had purchased a Husky.
I loved the breed and their youknow how much they would talk
(02:33):
and be kind of spunky andwhatnot, energetic and all that
their temperament was, I thoughtwas just hilarious and so I
wanted one.
And, being a Marine, we hadcanine handlers that were
designated there was their jobin the Marine Corps to train the
local MWDs, the militaryworking dogs, and so I got with
(02:56):
them.
I read up on the military theirdog training manual, which
they've revised many times, butI read through it very dry naval
letter format document on thatthick.
It was just huge.
And I did that, got with them.
And then there was a guy thatgot out and started his own
business and some of the guysthat worked for him.
(03:18):
I had some on the job kind oftraining and that was back 2014,
.
2015 in New Orleans, louisiana.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And so did you.
I'm going to back you up alittle bit.
So you got that manual andeverything Was that.
Was that, then, your job, orwas that more?
I have this Husky.
I'm going to figure out how totrain it.
Or did you actually getassigned to that job in the, in
the Marines?
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I wish I was already a sergeant and they said I
couldn't.
So, um, you had to be acorporal or below, and more than
likely it would have been abetter, a better fit to be
interesting than a corporal aswell.
So I, um, and I was a careerplanner, uh, so I knew the ins
and outs of doing certain things.
I knew it was going to be areally hard sell anyway, so I
(04:05):
couldn't.
I tried very briefly and I knewwhen it hit certain channels
when it got shot down, like yeah, it's probably not going to fly
.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But you pursued it, so you thought you would enjoy
it enough to want to pursue thatat that time.
Yes, and again I mean, was thisbecause of Sophie growing up?
Were you just like man, I loveanimals, I love dogs, or um, I
guess it's just.
I'm kind of I'm curious likepeople who are drawn to that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Um, well, I I did love animals.
Um and um.
You know the way that Iinteracted with animals before
when I was a child.
I wish that I had a little bitmore guidance and a little bit
more help.
I think that would have beenbest.
There were a lot of things thatI missed out on.
(04:56):
With the animals that we didhave.
And I didn't take advantage oflike I should have.
You know it's.
It's similar to a Marine beingstationed in Hawaii and not
having the best time of theirlife there, they're just not
taking advantage of the thingsthat are there.
So that was that was part of theproblem and, uh, we were busy.
(05:18):
We had lots of things going ongrowing up, so it's, it is what
it is.
But loved animals, uh, lovedbeing outdoors.
And I've got this Husky now andshe is rambunctious as all get
out and I've got some crazystories that are probably not
the best to be talking aboutright now of things that she did
(05:40):
.
He did to me, like while I wassleeping, okay, and just stuff
that would you know, it wouldmake you laugh and it would
probably make you cry.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And this was in.
You said again, you said NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
New Orleans, louisiana, so you were in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Louisiana Husky Yep.
Is that crazy that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
crazy, oh it's crazy I didn't think I'd be stationed
back home.
Okay, I, I was um, I wasstationed and I I joined and
then I went to hawaii for about38 months and then, after that
and some training anddeployments in between, I left
and I got stationed in lou inthe 4th Marine.
Division, the Reserve Divisionof the Marine Corps, and that's
(06:29):
where I was like, well, I'llprobably settle down here and
get myself a dog.
I should probably get this dogtrained and I would like to
learn how to do it myself.
So that's what got me startedLoved animals, loved hunting,
loved hunting, loved camping,loved the outdoors.
Um, really loved dogs.
Just had a big affinity towardsthe animal and, um, I wanted to
(06:53):
get down and dirty, get myhands um, get my hands dirty,
you know, and do the work.
I wanted to learn how to traindogs for myself and, at the time
, just for my, for my Husky andher name was Shadow, so just for
Shadow, I wanted to learn yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So how did that go?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It went great.
You know, shadow was.
Huskies are notoriouslydifficult to train, and the
difficulty in it is not thatthey're just very hard to train,
and the difficulty in it is notthat they're just very hard to
train, it's that every dogtrainer, if they're worth their
(07:33):
salt.
We all use the exact sameprinciples to train dogs, but
our methods differ trainer totrainer, and so you know, if
you're using pressure, if you'reusing positive reinforcement,
negative reinforcement, positivepunishment, negative punishment
, whatever it is that you'reusing, if you're talking about
pressure, if you are talkingabout reward, um, you need to
(07:55):
find what works for the dogyou're still using the exact
same principles.
And so she.
She did great, because I spenthours and hours with her every
single day, hours and hours andhours with her, every single day
, hours and hours and hours withher, and that helped me work
out a lot of the kinks that Ihad.
Still not a dog trainer at thetime, I was just learning and
with my own personal dog was agood start.
(08:15):
But then, after that, begun thehard.
Lessons of okay, now I'm goingto go attempt to train other
people's dogs.
Lessons of okay, now I'm goingto go attempt to train other
people's dogs and what happenswhen they're not as sweet as
mine and I get bit, so like I'vegot scars on my hands and on my
my legs, um, you know, andthere's thankfully none that
(08:36):
have brought me to the hospital.
You know, god's been very goodto me in that respect, but there
was some.
there was a learning curve thathad to take place and how I
should interact with the animaland how I shouldn't interact
with the animal, especially whenthey're not mine.
So with mine it went great,absolutely great.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So then, what was that transition into training
other people's dogs?
Were you still in the MarineCorps?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Still in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And so it was like hey, here, this is a potential
side hustle for me.
Yeah, Was that kind of the?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It began as a hobby and then very rapidly turned
into a side hustle as people sawmy dog and how well behaved she
was and all the things she wasdoing.
And I was on base in NewOrleans on bell chase and as
people saw that they were know,can you do that with my dog?
And I sat there and I said,well, I guess I could, I could
(09:30):
try.
And so I started doing that andpeople are paying me a little
bit, some money here and thereto do it and I'm just applying
the same things.
I started hitting some someblockage.
I started hitting some some somepretty big speed bumps because
some of the things that I wasapplying with my dog weren't
working the exact same way and Iwould.
(09:51):
I would explain it um, like, uh, it was very, I was very rigid
in how I was going about it andso I, I, I was applying these
principles, but I didn't knowhow to bend the principles and
match the method to thatparticular dog.
And so for the next three years, as I'm developing my process
(10:12):
and how I'm doing things withdogs, I'm really having a hard
time because I don't understand,um, the wisdom or the
self-control that, the balancein how I should be training and
whatnot, and that was a.
That was a bit of a um adifficult.
That was a challenge for me.
It really was.
I was kind of stagnant for alittle bit.
(10:32):
Um but obviously we got pastthat and here we are, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So what were some of the things?
I think that's an interestingthing about a, a well-trained
dog, right?
I mean, obviously that's whateverybody wants, sure?
Um, like, what were some of thethings that your dog, that
shadow, had or maybe not had?
But like, were there thingsthat you can point to to say,
yeah, that's, this is why peoplewere like, hey, can you do that
(10:59):
with my dog?
Like, how was she?
What are some of?
Maybe the?
Um?
Another way to ask it might bewhat are some of the key results
of like that you say awell-trained dog acts like this
or does these things?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, so, um, uh, in terms of reactivity, I would
walk past dogs six feet or lessaway from me that they couldn't
get to us, um, cause they wereon a leash or what have you, and
they would act just terribly,absolutely terrible, and their
poor owners, they feltembarrassed.
You know their dogs pullinglike crazy and lunging and
growling and trying to snap atme or my dog, and you know so.
(11:36):
They would see the differencethere, the contrast.
My dog is looking and then shejust doesn't care.
Her body language doesn't skipa beat, she doesn't change her
behavior even for a moment, kindof go.
Hey, what is that?
Why are you looking at me thisway?
it was just oh and she justkeeps going and she's trotting
next to me, which shows me thatshe's happy, um, and she looks
(12:00):
up at me and I'm like good job,you know good job.
She's like, yeah, I'm doing agood job, and so we're good job.
She's like, yeah, I'm doing agood job, and so we're walking
past these dogs, we're walkingthrough highly populated areas,
because I took her all over theplace in New Orleans and I would
heal her for miles and miles.
I mean I think one time I healedher for about 10 miles and it
was about five miles and then itwas you can go run and play,
(12:22):
and then it was you can go runand play, and then it was come
back and heal.
She needed a break and it tookme a while to work her up to
that kind of work, but she didfantastic, just absolutely
fantastic.
So that was part of it.
And then I was able to, from100 yards away about 100, 150
yards away, I could give hercommands without saying a word
(12:43):
and I could just point up andshe would sit.
I could give her commandswithout saying a word and I
could just point up and shewould sit.
I could point down and shewould lie down, no leash,
nothing, and so I would.
People would see that and theywould see tons of people around
their dogs and whatnot.
And she was obeying me, she wasfocused on me, which, again,
these are things that are hardto do with a Husky.
And it's not again, it's notbecause they're just so darn
(13:07):
stubborn.
It's kind of like not every kidlearns the same.
I think a lot of kids probablylearn similarly, so you can
squeeze them into categories,but not every kid does, and
you've got to be creative and soin that similar kind of process
, I had to kind of bend things alittle bit and, with her being
(13:28):
able to do these distancecommands, be focused on me and
obey me, and do so cheerfullywhich actually I'll get into
that in just a moment, becauseat first it was not but
something, something changed inme which made me a better dog
trainer, I think.
But yeah, so she would do thatand then I would, from 100 yards
(13:50):
away, I would tell her to jumpup on this platform and just
stay there, and she would staythere for an hour or so.
We'd be out in the park, we'dbe out in Algiers or somewhere
else on the West Bank, and shewould just obey everything.
Didn't matter what the contextwas.
We'd be weaving in and out ofpeople without a leash.
(14:14):
Now, whether that was legal ornot for me to do probably not At
the time, you know, beingyounger and not as familiar with
things, probably wasn't.
But, um, people were enamoredby it.
They were just wow, we, we want, we want what you're doing.
Can you do that with our dog?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
so that's kind of yeah started yeah, I mean that
sounds amazing, all right, likethat's.
That's the kind of thing thateverybody kind of dreams of,
right, whether you're, no matterthe type of dog.
Um, so you had some some bumpy.
Do you think some of that wasyour?
Like you said, you spent hoursand hours with that dog and
(14:54):
she's your dog right.
So how much of that istranslates over into a dog
trainer?
Versus the owner who has that?
I would assume I'm making someassumptions.
Do does, would you say.
Versus the owner who has that Iwould assume I'm making some
assumptions.
Would you say, does the ownerhave just a different bond with
the dog?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, I was being intentional in a very specific
kind of way.
I prefer I don't teach, excuseme, I don't take dogs away from
owners anymore and train them.
I did that early on and I wouldsay that was great for me to
learn, but it was absolutelyterrible for the product that I
(15:34):
was trying to achieve and it wasnecessary for me to find that
and do that.
And then stumble through all ofit and then realize you know, I
should probably change this up,stumble through all of it and
then realize you know, I shouldprobably change this up because
the owners have all thecontinuity with their dogs.
Um, you can't, you can't servetwo masters.
I can make myself your masterfor a short period of time and
things can go really well, andthen I can
(15:56):
hand off back to your owner andthings are going to be chaotic.
So, uh, I don't do that anymore.
Those were one of the bumps.
One of the other bumps was, youknow, in my much more formative
years as a man and being in theMarine Corps, everything is
very strict, very structured,very rigid, and that's the key
(16:17):
word is rigid.
It's very wooden, it's veryblack and white, and so, if
things didn't go my way, I washarder on the dog.
I was harder on the dog, um, andthat was something that wasn't
beneficial to me as a trainerand it wasn't beneficial for my
dog's learning and growingprocess, so I had a lot of
(16:39):
maturing to do throughout all ofthat and with any, with any art
or skill.
That's artsy and I would say dogtraining is is similar because
you're dealing with organicthey're, they're animals,
they're not robots.
Um, you can't just put hardwareor software in.
Everything's changed.
Um, you really have to mold,and it's incremental, it's
(17:00):
progressive, it just little bylittle, the steps in order to
produce the thing that I was.
I was getting um, so learningto be patient was a big one, um,
and marine corps didn't set meup for that, not at all, not by
a long shot.
Uh, at least not to do socheerfully and um, but going
(17:22):
back to what you were saying,owners versus trainers, trainers
understand canine behavior andthey know how to respond
appropriately.
I wouldn't say, uh, respond um,the right way.
I would say respondappropriately, because it's
going to differ ever so slightlydog to dog, um, and it really
depends on what the dog is doingand it really depends on what
(17:45):
the dog is doing.
So, if you know most of myclients, they're looking at me
when I'm training a dog Me.
I'm not looking at them, I'mlooking at the dog and I'm
looking at the dog's bodylanguage Now occasionally I will
look at them because I want tosee okay, why did the dog do
that?
And then I see the owner.
The owner is tensed up, they'reanxious, they've got a real
(18:07):
firm grip on that leash and uh,they're.
They're very, um, they'relacking confidence and whatnot.
And that's a lot of what I do.
It's when I'm teaching folks,folks, how to train their dogs,
I'm uh teaching, uh encouragingand I'm I'm Well, that's really
what I'm doing.
I'm really encouraging thembecause I think everybody's got
it in them.
(18:28):
They have all the keyingredients, all the key
elements, naturally, to be ableto do this.
It's just they've never done itbefore, and so I'm kind of
helping to develop that in them.
Why does my dog act this way?
Well, we're looking at twodifferent things.
I'm looking at the dog'sbehavior.
(18:49):
You might be looking at theother dog that has a problem
with your dog.
I'm looking at your dog.
I don't care about the otherperson's dog, I care about your
dog.
So when I look at your dog, Ican see all the problems, the
small decisions that that dog ismaking, right then and there,
and nobody is teaching him to dosomething different.
So I can't fix the other dogbecause they haven't hired me,
(19:12):
but I can help you fix your dog.
So that's, that's the bigdifference.
And me spending hours and hoursand hours every single day on
my dog, taking her for walks,doing training here and there,
it wasn't one gigantic sessionthat would have exhausted me
emotionally and physically.
It wasn't one gigantic sessionthat would have exhausted me
emotionally and physically.
It's a very emotionallydraining process to deal with an
(19:34):
animal where you have to bestern one second and then,
immediately after, you have tobe very sweet and praise,
praising them, and so youremotions are this and that, this
and that, and if you controlthem well, you can do things at
the right time with the rightemphasis and so forth.
So those are, um, are the rightlevel, those are, um, some of
(19:59):
the challenges, but those arethe things that were helpful
that while I was spending allthis time with my dog, which is
I was single at the time, so itwas very much feasible.
But looking back when, as amarried man.
I wouldn't have that much timeNot, not at all.
Okay, so I did that and I wasable to pick up on my dog's
(20:19):
behaviors in a variety ofdifferent situations and see her
baseline.
That's what made a bigdifference for me from going to
just being a dog owner tobeginning the process of
becoming a dog trainer, and thenI began to see it in other dogs
and then I began to realizethat I could.
(20:40):
I could catch this If I could.
If I could catch it at theright moment, when things are
small, I can avoid the explosionwith the dog.
So that was that would be hugefor me, especially like when I
was starting out working verydifficult dogs.
That would just come at yourthroat.
You know, I remember I went toNew York city and stay with a
(21:00):
family and they had a Germanshepherd and he would defecate
all in the house and, um, theywere kind of pulling their hair
out but at the same time theywere giving him Oreos and stuff.
Um, but you know so, um.
(21:22):
But I remember I didn't haveany tools with me and we brought
him down to ABC city and, uh,they were restraining him and he
, he lunged at me, he jumped upin the air.
It was about eight feet away,lunged up in the air, and I said
, okay, let him go.
And they said let him go andeverybody walking by who wants
this dog to get put down becauseof a terror he's been for
(21:45):
fighting other animals umpeople's dogs or other people,
little kids or whatever.
I said, okay, let him go.
And they said are you sure?
And everybody is just watchingpeople I've never met before and
I said, yep, let him go.
And as soon as he jumped up,you could hear the gasp at least
30 people in the air.
(22:05):
You know like, oh no, what'sgonna happen.
And so I sidestepped just acouple feet and I grabbed him by
the scruff of his neck and I,controlling the neck, I brought
him down to the ground.
I didn't slam him to the groundor anything like that, but I
held him down and I had, Ipositioned myself over him where
(22:25):
he couldn't.
He couldn't struggle too muchto where he could get up and I
just waited and waited, andwaited, and waited, and waited
some more and everybody'sfreaking out, and eventually
that dog just went and I let go,got up and he turned around and
(22:47):
looked me on the face.
I said, ok, you're ready towork, put a leash on him, let's
go.
And so that was.
That was a very instrumentalmoment for me, just kind of you
know, in the way of danger.
This dog has his jaws open andhe's jumping at my face midair,
(23:10):
and I just kind of sidestep and,you know, help him out.
In that moment Something hedesperately wanted was who's
going to pull my bluff card?
Who's going to hold meaccountable?
Who's going to?
Who's going to care enough tolove me with some tough love?
Who's going to who's going todo that?
And I, I helped him in thatmoment.
(23:32):
He, he loved me after.
So how'd you know that wouldwork?
I didn't, it just did work.
I, yeah, it just kind of worked.
It was, um, I would never dothat today.
Um, looking back, you didn't,didn't know what you were.
No, I'd been training dogs forabout two, two and a half years
(23:54):
and, um, for several months Ihad coaching and guiding um
doing somewhat on the job,training.
But that was from folks thatthey were.
They would tell me hey, uh,when you get off work from the
Marine Corps, uh, if we've got adog for you to train, come over
and we'll help you.
We want you to train the dogthat we're training and we'll
(24:14):
teach you and we'll coach youand whatnot.
I said great, most of thosedogs were at midnight or at 2 am
I was like good Lord man thisis I'm tired.
I don't know about you guys, butI'm tired and so it was.
But I'm tired and so it was.
You know, I, I didn't.
What I lacked was a mentorthrough and through.
(24:35):
So a lot of things I really hadto learn just the hardest way,
trying different things,stumbling through it.
Well, that was a dead end.
Well, that would.
That didn't work.
I messed things up with thatdog while I did things good with
that dog.
What can I learn from both andum?
So those were defining momentsfor me as a trainer.
Um yeah, those were.
(24:58):
Those were defining moments.
So I but two, two and a half,three years in actually it was.
It was two years, two years inwhen I went to New York.
Yeah, just about 2017-ish, 2016, 2017.
And I didn't know what I know.
Now I look back and I'm likeboy.
That was foolish.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Were you still in the Marine Corps at that time?
Still in the Marine Corps?
Okay, still in the Marine Corps.
So it was still kind of sidehustle, yep.
So it was just the word justbuilding People would refer you
to somebody else, like people inNew York.
How did they find you?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, that's a funny story, so that's actually
probably a story for anothertime.
These were folks that I knew.
Um, I was just going to paythem a visit and it was kind of
a vacation period for me so itwas connection.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It wasn't like you had a website, you're starting
to get a following and you weregetting people to bring you out
to new york to train dogs.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, I had some friends in new york.
They said, hey, you're dogtraining now and I said well,
yeah, well, yeah, I kind of sortof am.
I said, well, we could sure useyour help with our dog.
I said okay, sure, let's seewhat you got.
And then it went from there.
But in two days I had that doghealing with me around New York
City.
He wasn't reactive, we didn'thave a big problem with other
(26:25):
dogs and whatnot.
And he active, we didn't have abig problem with other dogs and
whatnot.
Um, and he was super sweet andfriendly with me, not just with
his family, um, and people wereasking me for business cards.
I had some, just not with me.
I left them in Louisiana.
I didn't think I'd be doingthis.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, um, so so where'd he grow from there?
You did it for a few yearswhile you were in the Marine
Corps.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, well, really, in 2017, March 23, 2017, I had a
huge change in my life.
A huge change in my life, um, I, the Lord, had saved me.
(27:15):
I became a Christian Um, andthat was the biggest defining
moment for me, because a lot ofthe things that I was doing in
my training practices, Irealized I don't know if this is
right anymore for me to do thisthis way.
The way that I was taught Umand and some of it, just the way
that I did it was my own fault.
It was all my fault, but the um.
So coming to grips with thatand then trying to figure out
(27:40):
now where can I go to findbetter practice, boy, that was
hard.
There wasn't much out there, um,there was a lot of good
methodology, absolutelyatrocious philosophy, um, and it
was actually very detrimental.
It didn't, it didn't line upwith the methodology and the
(28:02):
teaching.
So all of the undergirdingprinciples, they just it didn't,
uh, it didn't match very well.
But you see, these people arejust brilliant dog trainers.
They really know what they'redoing, but they don't know why
they're doing it, how they'redoing it, um, why even can they
do it?
Um, and they just they're allvery, they all seemed, when you
(28:27):
talk to them, they seem justlike they just had a rough go of
things in life.
And so I was sitting there like, well, I'd love to learn from
these folks, but they just don'tseem like kindred spirits.
And so I actually starteddigging in to my faith as a
(28:50):
Christian and began justscouring the Bible over and over
and over and over and over andover again, and what I found
were all the principles that Iwas applying, and then some, and
then some more than that, and Ibegan to just kind of sit there
and meditate over them.
And then I started to try topractice them and things changed
(29:14):
.
Things changed big time, andfor the better.
I started having much betterresults, um, and I started.
You know, it's not that I'mdoing things drastically
different from folks who are notgoing to the bible.
The bible is not a dog trainingbook for one um, but it teaches
on everything, and theprinciples it lays forth they're
(29:38):
all there.
So I took those principles andthe ones that I already had and
I began to see okay, now, how,how can I make this?
How can I make these principlesdeliver to the animal in a way
that honors God?
That was the principle questionthat I was asking myself how
can I do that?
Because if I can't do that,what am I even doing?
(30:01):
And a lot of that was just Ineed to be cheerful and joyful
when I'm working the animal.
If I'm working a problem dog, Idon't need to come down hard on
the animal.
God considers our frame, wherewe are, and he works us
accordingly.
And then so I need to considermore Where's the dog at in the
(30:22):
training process?
Ground zero, step one, step two, step three?
Where are they at?
Where's their emotional stateat?
Um, you know where?
Why are they acting the waythat they are?
Um, what are they missing?
I walk into some homes and youknow the animal, by and large,
the.
The problem is the animal islacking discipline and structure
, um, and once that's done, theanimal is oftentimes lacking joy
(30:47):
, and so I don't want anobedient dog, I don't want a
happy dog, I want a cheerfully,joyfully, obedient dog, because
that's what I'm called to be.
So I need a dog to do that.
And it really boiled down toI'm looking for someone to
imitate.
Who do I imitate?
And then I found.
(31:08):
Jesus, or rather he found me andpulled me out of my problems.
And then I said well, if I wantto learn how to train dogs
better, I should probablyimitate the perfect man.
And that's where everythingchanged for me, and that's you
(31:30):
know in terms of growth andwhatnot.
I left Louisiana, moved hereafter I got out of the Marine.
Corps shortly thereafter and2020, been here and I've been
doing it ever since.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So you really went full time at it after coming up
here, yeah, yeah.
So what would I mean?
You mentioned a few differenttimes these principles Back at
the beginning.
You talked about kind of howmost everybody is working from
the same principles.
Sure, but they have differentmethodology, the principles that
(32:00):
you were applying that.
You then saw similar things inthe Bible.
What are a couple of those keyprinciples with?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
dog training.
Okay, so I'll give you a coupledifferences, I'll give you some
and I'll give you thedifferences.
So BF Skinner has a, it's not adiagram.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It's a quadrant of training and it has.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Uh, over here you have the positives, over here
you have the negatives.
Now, in dog training, positivedoesn't mean that it's good,
negative doesn't mean that it'sbad it means addition,
subtraction, so positivereinforcement you're adding a
reinforce, reinforcer, um,positive punishment.
So, or excuse me, positives overhere, negatives over here.
(32:48):
So, positive reinforcement,positive punishment.
You're adding a reinforcer,adding a punisher.
You're retracting a reinforcerin order to.
You're retracting something inorder to reinforce something.
Or you are retracting order toreinforce something, or you are
retracting something in order topunish the dog, like, in other
(33:13):
words, a reward withholding areward, like taking a privilege
away, kind of a thing.
Now, the differences for me inthese would be one as a
Christian, the punishing,although it's a biblical term
and although previously peoplewould have said well, we know
what that means and we know howwe should go about it, we know
(33:33):
what the Bible says on that.
Today, punishment seems to havetaken a very different meaning,
and it's more so wrath, anger,um just, there's a lot of ego
involved, um, a lot of pride.
Your pride gets pricked, youhave bad expectations, you think
(33:56):
yourself more highly than youought and, um you, when your
expectations are not met, youget angry and you take it out.
That seems to be a moreappropriate cultural
understanding of the wordpunishment today.
So the word that I use, the wordthat I prefer, is discipline,
because discipline incorporatesteaching, chastising a bunch of
(34:18):
others, but for the animal,teaching, chastising, physical
correction and then restoration,punishment, never incorporates
those things.
Now, if the dog does learnthings from experiencing
physical pain or physicaldiscomfort, that's true, but
teaching should always be donefrom a place of joy.
It should always be cheerful andjoyful.
And you're building a tool,Chastising.
(34:41):
You have your physical wordthat you don't want the dog to
do something no off, whatever itis.
And then you have your physicalcorrection.
There you have your leash pops,your scruffing, your a swat,
whatever it is that you do, andthen you have restoration.
There's no restoration on thepunisher side.
Now where I can potentially getinto trouble with this is that
(35:06):
while I call it restoration,some other folks can call it
something very similar.
They can say they're recoveringthe dog, helping the dog,
raising their spirits, and Ithink that's all perfectly fine.
But I see this as I'm supposedto initiate, because God is the
one who initiates.
So I need to initiate theteaching, the chastising and the
discipline and I need toinitiate the restoration, so I
(35:29):
bring the dog back.
If I do this properly, then Ishould be able to say with the
psalmist that Yahweh hasdisciplined me severely, but
because of this, the gates ofrighteousness have opened up to
me and I went through withthanksgiving to the one who
disciplined me severely.
But because of this, the gatesof righteousness have opened up
to me and I went through withthanksgiving to the one who
disciplined me.
Right and so that?
(35:50):
These are some of theprinciples.
And then it's well, the reasonthat your dog is acting out is
because your dog doesn't thinkthat they belong to your family.
They don't.
They don't belong to yourhousehold.
Well, what on earth would makeyou make you think that?
Well, because the bible tellsme if you're without discipline,
you're no legitimate child, andthe same thing applies with the
animal, in fact, everything umthat lives underneath your roof,
(36:12):
everything so um.
If the animal is withoutdiscipline, they do not feel
loved and they'll act out.
They desperately needdiscipline and they'll act out,
they desperately need disciplineand they need a firm,
self-controlled, cheerful hand.
Uh, who's not going to abusethem?
And typically I run into I runinto folks regularly, um, that
(36:34):
have a misunderstanding aboutthe two terms, when I when I use
them that way.
When I'm dealing with um, Ialways try to deal with husbands
and wives.
Uh, if, if I'm dealing with, Ialways try to deal with husbands
and wives.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
if I'm dealing with a family, Otherwise it's a little
bit easier.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But usually folks that have families.
It's a little bit harder, butI'll tell them you need to
discipline your dog, you need torecover your dog.
You need to restore your dog andwhen they do it the first time
it's clunky, it looks pretty bad.
And that's where I come in andI just start encouraging them.
(37:10):
It's okay, you can do it,you've got this, you've got all
the ingredients already, I'mjust helping you bring it out.
And with that there's alwayschallenges and learning and
whatnot, problems you've got towork through.
If they discipline too lightly,they're going to create big
(37:30):
problems for the dog.
If they discipline way too hard, if they're harsh in their
correction and not only did theydo that physically but also
their demeanor was just angrythen they're going to create a
problem.
You either have a dog whobecomes very durable to
correction, or you have a dogthat becomes very fearfully
(37:51):
obedient, so he's terrified andfear aggression could come out
of that.
Or he becomes aggressively, hebecomes confident in that he can
take corrections and then youhave a different problem on your
hand.
So those are the two ditchesunder-correcting,
over-correcting, and then in themiddle you have just
(38:13):
self-controlled discipline.
It's severe for the occasion,it's good for the animal, good
for the owner, and the dog lovesthe owner more.
They trust the hand ofcorrection just as much as they
do the hand of affection.
That's what we want.
We don't want the dog to runaway in fear.
We want the dog to come to us.
We don't want the dog to beafraid.
So those are, those are the bigprinciples.
(38:36):
It's really just joy,discipline, discipline, joy.
And if you screw up.
If you screw up, then the wayto fix that is restitution.
That's a word that we don'treally talk about a whole lot
anymore.
But restitution, Not with dogtraining, certainly, definitely
not with dog training.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But that's if you screw up with disciplining your
dog and you think oh golly, Imessed up my relationship with
my animal, now what do I do?
Yeah, well, there is a way.
There is a way to restore theanimal's trust and to get things
back on track where they needto be.
So that's what I try to do withfolks, and those are some of
(39:18):
the principles at play.
Those are the big ones.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, interesting.
Now you said that there's a lotof all dogs are different,
right?
Just like kids take instructionin different ways and that kind
of thing.
Sure how much of that, I guess.
How important is that?
How much of that goes into it?
You know how important is aparticular dog and the breed or
(39:45):
the personality of the dog tothose results.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, that's so.
I think how I want to answerthis, because it could go on for
a while.
I want to answer this becauseit could go on for a while and I
think probably the best way togo about it is I have lots of
families, lots of folks who askme what dog should I get?
(40:12):
I'm sure you do.
What dog should I get?
You know, I've got a big family.
It's just me.
You know, I'm a single guy,single gal.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
You know what do I do .
Speaker 2 (40:24):
What dog should I get ?
I used to tell folks a lot ofdifferent things, and now what I
tell folks is I ask them aquestion.
I say, okay, what do you wantto manage for the rest of the
dog's life?
What's the thing that you wantto have to be on top of?
And what's the thing that youwant to have to be on top of and
(40:45):
, um, what's the detriment?
And usually with your, withyour, um, your herding dogs, uh,
which can also fall in thecategory of your working dogs,
uh, your shepherds, most of themis if you have a big family and
you have little ones runningaround, then they're going to
jump off all over the place, goafter the kids, nip them in the
(41:06):
ankles and try to herd them intoa corner.
That can be pretty painful forthe children and the dog is not
biting, but they are nipping.
The dog is bred to do this.
You're not going to get rid ofit.
It was put there by God.
You're not going to get rid ofit.
Put there by god, you're notgoing to get rid of it.
(41:28):
So, um, it just hundreds ofyears of breeding going into
this one animal, uh, whatever itis.
Um, that's the thing I alwaystell folks you can't fight this.
You can manage it, but youcan't fight it.
So you've got to developstructure for the dog, things
for the dog to do, to kind ofmitigate these things.
But don't think that you'vefixed the problem.
Uh, you can think of it like abesetting sin.
It's always going to come back.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So how do you want to deal with it?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Now with other dogs, say the GSP or the Lab, it's
different.
So typically it's shedding anenergy.
That's really.
Those are, generally speaking,the only things that folks have
to manage.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
You know, I say, boy, if all you have to worry about
is shedding and energy thankyour lucky stars, man, you don't
have a problem on your hand.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
They say, well, I don't really like the shedding.
I was like well, I'm sorry, Idon't know what to tell you,
it's an animal.
Well, I'm sorry, I don't knowwhat to tell you, it's an animal
.
So the shedding and the energy,if you've got a big family,
these dogs tend to doextraordinarily well.
That's not to say that thereare other dogs that won't.
(42:38):
I have a big blackCzechoslovakian, czech line
German Shepherd.
He's the sweetest dog.
I can do bite work with him,tracking off leash obedience,
but he's just super sweet andthat's, um, that's something to
be prized.
When you're looking at guardianor working breeds, it's, uh, you
don't want a guardian breedthat's going to go haywire.
(42:59):
Um, you know, and we're talkingabout the context of a family
or, just as my working dog, ifhe's a police dog, that's a
completely different story.
Maybe some guys want a harderdog than others.
Uh, for specific reasons, youknow, depending on where they're
at, where they're located inthe jobs they typically come
across.
So, um, it just depends.
But there's plenty of otherbreeds out there.
(43:21):
The Bernie's Mountain Dog isone of them.
A lot of the hunting dogs.
They're excellent breeds, withthe exception of maybe some and
the ones that I don't recommendfolks get, like the Australian
Shepherd, the Blue Heeler, thePoodle.
It's not because they're badbreeds, it's because it's not a
good fit.
It's not a good fit and I runinto trouble with some folks
(43:45):
because they say well, I think,that every dog should just be
able to obey me, you know, or?
I should just be able to loveevery dog and it should work
just fine.
I said, yeah, but it doesn't.
The world doesn't work that way.
It wasn't made that way.
There's good fits and there'sbad fits.
Just like I couldn't marry justanybody and not just anybody
could marry me.
I have one wife, she has onehusband, and we're a good fit
(44:09):
for each other.
Um, I can't, I can't.
Um, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
So, and if it, doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Good luck trying to make it work.
I've never met anybody that can.
I've never met anybody that can.
You might be able to make mostof it work, but that's about it.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that you keep coming
back to the owners.
You know, like talking abouttraining, it's like you're
training the owners in a lot ofways, more than you're training
the dog.
People ask you about what kindof dog to get.
You're really more interviewingthe owners, right?
It's just interesting.
You don't necessarily thinkabout that.
You kind of think of people whowork with dogs, people with dog
(44:47):
trainers.
They're really animal focused.
And it's not like you don'twork with animals a lot.
But you're only going to havesuccess if you're working with
the people, if you watch me walkwith my clients when we're
working their dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
the thing that I'm honing in on is you is you need
to correct that you weren't firmenough.
You need to be more cheerfulwith your dog.
You need to, um, be a littlebit more bubbly and excited and
um, uh, demonstrate that you aremuch more enthusiastic about
your dog's performance here thanyou were there, and really it's
their character.
That's what I'm honing in on.
I want them to have controlover their emotions with regard
(45:30):
with respect to the animal.
That's a that's.
That's more than half thebattle.
I mean, I can teach you how touse a prong collar, an electric
collar, a choke chain, aMartingale system, whatever it
is.
I can teach you how to use abunker.
You know these are simple andvery easy, but the self-control
(45:51):
over your emotions and over yourtiming, your actions and where
your eyes are wandering, thoseare hard.
I will tell folks all the timeyou're not looking at your dog.
You need to look at your dog.
Stop looking at that dog.
Look at your dog.
Don't worry about that dog.
Look at your dog.
Your dog just made a baddecision.
You didn't do anything about it, right?
(46:12):
So the response, the weight ofresponsibility, is entirely on
the owner.
However, the dog is not perfect.
The dog may have not sinned inthe garden, but we sure did, and
it affected them, and so, umyou know, they're uh, they're
100% afraid of the image of Godthat's on man.
(46:32):
So you know, with that in mind,yeah, you really shouldn't go up
to random people's dogs and petthem.
Why You're not their owner,you're not their master?
Well, why would they be afraidof me?
Because Genesis nine says theywill be, because God made it
that way.
Are you going to try to undothat?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
What about?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
some dogs.
Some dogs are Well, yeah,because these dogs, if they're
afraid their fight or flightresponse, they come wagging
their tail up to you.
I give up, please don't beat me.
Other dogs they run away.
Other dogs, yet still they'llfight you.
So it depends on what's goingto happen.
(47:12):
And then some dogs if yousocialize them properly from a
very young age, you can mitigatea lot of that.
You're not going to make itperfect, but you can mitigate a
lot.
And typically those breeds arethe ones that have a high
threshold for their sociability.
They just have a very highthreshold for it.
Their batteries are almostrecharged Like.
The Lab is a good example.
The Golden Retriever, theEnglish Lab, the American Lab,
(47:36):
those are easy examples that Ican just throw out there and
everybody's like oh yeah, got itit.
Yeah, these dogs are great.
Um, an English Bulldog isanother good one.
These dogs do excellent in umbig social environments.
You take my German Shepherd andput him in the midst of 100
people, he'll freak out.
(47:57):
He might bite somebody byaccident.
He could probably scare him.
Um, if I put an English lab,american lab, in the midst of
all those people who, he'llprobably sit there and want
everybody to pet him, go aroundand say this is great, this is
good.
He'll probably sit in thecorner and come back out and you
know he's um, this is, this isjust the the breeding this is,
(48:19):
this is the dog, and, uh, it'swhat I have to deal with.
I can't fix that.
I have to.
There are constraints that Ihave to work around, so yeah,
how early should somebody getstarted?
Training their dog.
Eight weeks, eight weeks, eightweeks, right when they come
home.
Yep, right when they come home.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
And how do I'm going to have to wrap it up, Yep?
How do people find you to getstarted at eight weeks?
Yep, it's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
this is the time of year, everybody's getting
puppies and it is, oh mygoodness, and um, there's so
many folks in this area that arehaving litters, um, tons of
breeders, people who are wantingto be breeders.
I just got a phone call theother day about some bernie
doodle puppies that, uh, justthey're uh, they're new, they're
new and uh and they're they'rebeautiful, they're just gorgeous
(49:11):
coat.
but anybody who wants to get incontact with me, they can
contact me through my website,04k9.com.
That's the letter o, the numberfour and a K and a ninecom.
I've got a little tab therewhere they can contact me and
it'll put in their information,a little blurb.
Or you can email me at04K9.training at gmailcom and
(49:37):
you can also find my businesscards at.
Pets Are People Too.
I work with them every now andthen.
Sometimes they'll see metraining dogs in and out of
there.
You can find me walking downMoscow, downtown Moscow,
training dogs around Main Street.
I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Perfect.
Yeah Well, thanks Blake.
Super interesting, and I gotsome stuff to work on, so that's
good too.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Great Thanks, Blake.
All right Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Thanks for joining us .
Like, share, subscribe.
We'll see you next week.
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