Episode 170: Thom King CEO of Steviva Foods ON Keto, Biohacks, and The Food Industry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys, we've got a specialepisode here for you.
This is my interview with Tomking.
The CEO, us Devi or rants.
And icon foods.
Author of Geigen.
Quito and they keto lifestyleenthusiastic the conversation,
revolved around Tom's experienceand gaining weight during
COVID-19 also the impact ofstress on that, their habits and

(00:20):
his journey back to health usingcuter principles.
Combined with innovativebiohacks.
Then we talked about theevolving food industry and then
just the human experience ingeneral.
And it's always a pleasuretalking with Tom here.
Very Atlanta stuff here, guys,without further ado.
Here's my interview with Tomking.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (00:41):
I'm so excited for this guy stick
around today.
We have a special guest joiningus, Tom King.
He is the founder and CEO of.
Staviva Brands and Icon Foodsand an author he wrote the book
titled Guy Gone Keto.
He's also the guy behind the GuyGone Keto brand, the Keto
scientist himself, Tom King.

(01:01):
Tom, welcome to, welcome back tothe Ketones and Coffee Podcast,
I should say.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (01:06):
Thanks, Lorenz.
I totally appreciate it.
It's been a while.
So we were talking before theshow started, you said 2021.
And then, I mean, I started likereflecting back like three years
and it's like, wow, it's like

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:20):
went by.
It went by just like that, isn'tit?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (01:23):
It went by, it went by, but so much
happened, like so many things,like, you know, with COVID and
all of the sort of side effectsof COVID, like people gaining
weight.
You know, and people calling itthe COVID 19 weight, um, and
which I did myself, you know,like I gained, I gained 20, 22

(01:45):
pounds over COVID.
Um, and on the back end of it, Ijust couldn't seem to lose it.
Cause what's interesting islike, I mean, I've led this like
ketogenic lifestyle for likeseven years and I do cycle on
and off.
But by and large, you know, Ieat keto, try to stay keto.

(02:05):
Um, really, I broke so manyrules, um, during COVID that it
just was ridiculous because foodbecame such a

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (02:13):
right, right.
It was a stressful time, isn'tit?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (02:17):
it was stressful.
And I think during stressfultimes, you know, we find those
things, you know, whetherthey're addictive or whether
they're bad for us, but we findthose things that give us
comfort.
And for me, it was alcohol.
And, and just bad food, likecarbs and stuff and overeating,
um, seem to bring comfort.

(02:39):
So what's interesting is I thinkprior to, I would say prior to,
to COVID, I think I was a littlebit of a hypocrite because, you
know, my, My attitude was like,yeah, Hey, look, if you're
carrying extra weight and youjust don't, you can't jump on
the keto bandwagon because it'stoo hard to work.
That's on you, but put under somuch stress because you know,

(03:03):
I'm running a business and had alot of employees and there was a
lot of division amongst theemployees, like, Hey, I don't
want to get vaxxed.
I think it's a governmentconspiracy and just the
responsibility sheltering inplace.
I mean, We were a foodproduction company, so we were
sort of exempt from a lot of therules as long as people masked,

(03:25):
but then people didn't want tomask and there was a lot of
stress and it was like, it justbecame easy for me to fall into
that, which from my perspective,in the words of Jocko Willink,
Good, good.
I, I, I learned so much from, Ithink I learned so much from
falling off the wagon of my ownpersonal failures over the past

(03:48):
three years, like just in dietand, you know, struggle and
stuff like that, that it made mea lot more compassionate, you
know, it made me compassionate.
I'm way more compassionatetowards people that do carry
weight and have a hard timelosing that weight, you know,
because of all of the food, allof the outside stimulus that

(04:10):
actually helps people cope,right?
And so I have, um, I have aconcierge physician that I work
with back in Portland and hisname is, uh, Jeff Grimm, really,
really good guy.
And.
We, I think we just made ittogether through through COVID
and finding a lot of differentsuper interesting hacks, you

(04:33):
know, and one of those hacksthat I started at the probably
in 2022, you know, because I puton over 20 pounds, um, which on
my frame isn't a huge deal, butI did notice a big

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (04:48):
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (04:48):
how I felt.
How my clothes fit and, youknow, and I'm, I'm a freak for
data collection.
So as I'm watching the scale goup and, you know, I pull blood
every quarter, I was watching mycholesterol go up and it's like,
yeah, I mean, it has that bigimpact, but, you know, it made
me realize that people findcomfort in different ways.

(05:10):
So.
Um, I'm grateful for that levelof compassion I found, but I
also ran into some interestinghacks.
So my friend Jeff is like, Hey,do you want to try, do you want
to try semaglutide?
And I'm like, I have no ideawhat semaglutide is.
And I've always been interestedin peptides, um, but never

(05:32):
really jumped into them becausethey're injectable.
And, you know, injectable, youknow, supplements, some people,
I don't mind them so much, butsome

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (05:41):
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (05:42):
you know, are afraid of the needle,
but, um, yeah, so I did myfirst, so I did a first run of
semi glutide, which I think iscommonly referred to as a
Zempic.
And gave it a shot.
I'm like, okay, let's see if Ican lose some weight.
So I did it for two weeks andthe side effects were really,
really

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (06:02):
Mm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (06:02):
You know, um, nausea, a lot of
nausea, a lot of heartburn, alot of fatigue.
And I'm like, look, I'll just dothis on my own.
So, you know, Uh, I keptwatching my weight go back up
and it's like I was having areally, really hard time, you
know, with discipline with foodand discipline with, with

(06:23):
alcohol, like drinking beer andwine and an occasional bourbon
really became more of a habit,you know, than an indulgence.
And it's like, you know, whenyou're starting to create habits
like that, it, it doesn't takelong before they can start
becoming destructive.
It started showing up in some ofmy blood tests.

(06:44):
Like my C reactive proteins werekind of indicating that I was
having some inflammation issuesthat were coming from my liver.
You know, again, you know, nothuge leaps and in, in CRP
levels, but enough to think,Wow, you know, the things that
I'm doing are really affectingmy My physical being so I went

(07:07):
on for another probably six toeight months and then I'm like,
let's give it another shot Butwhen I do it this time what I
want to do is I wanted to besuper mindful of it And I want
to incorporate it with keto.
I want to incorporate it withsupplementing with With other
drugs.
So like semi glutide falls underthe category of the GLP one

(07:28):
agonist So the two main onesthat are out now are, are
Ozempic,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (07:34):
right.
Mm-Hmm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (07:36):
Wigovi, and they're either going to be
semaglutide or terrazeptide.
And semaglutide is like a singleGLP 1 agonist.
Terezeptide is a dualfunctioning one.
So I experimented with both ofthem and I experimented at a low
dose, like did a very, very lowdose.

(07:58):
And then I coupled it withberberine.
And so berberine, berberine isactually, they refer to it as a,
uh, a poor man's metformin.
Um, but I've taken metforminbefore to see what it would do
with my blood glucose levels.
Um, and I found that if Istacked the terrazeptide or the

(08:20):
semaglutide with, um, withberberine, that I was noticing
that my blood sugar was droppingat least five additional points.
So what I found is that withthese GLP 1 agonists, if you're
able to supplement with somethings that control blood sugar
levels, You know, supplementslike berberine or even metformin

(08:45):
and then the keto diet, whichmost definitely controls blood
glucose levels, you're going tosee some amazing efficacy.
Like I lost 20 pounds and Igauged it a lot though.
Like I think a lot of people arelike, I want to lose this fat
and I want to lose the superfast.
What that means is if you'relosing weight super fast, and I

(09:06):
would even say people that areon the keto diet, the goal is
not to lose weight fast.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (09:12):
Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (09:13):
You know, because you're going to
get loose skin.
You're also going to lose, losemuscle mass.
So the entire time I was doingthis hack, I'm watching muscle
mass.
Like how much muscle am I losingin comparison to, uh, uh, to
fat?
And so I have a, a scale.
It's a withings scale.
Um, that does BMI, does fatloss, does muscle loss.

(09:39):
I mean, it's a, it's a prettysophisticated scale, not
expensive.
I think I paid 120 bucks for it,but I was watching the muscle.
It's like, okay, am I losing anymuscle here?
And so I adjusted the dosage,you know, so I wasn't losing any
muscle and then increase theamount of protein that I was
eating.

(09:59):
So in some cases I was eatingway more protein than what would
be commonly associated with witha keto diet.
Um, I was trying to get to 200,which is really hard.
I mean, it's hard if you're noton a GLP 1 agonist, but it's
super hard if you are.

(10:21):
Because where are you gettingthe protein from?
So I was having a lot of wheyprotein, uh, ready to drink
beverages.
Um, I found one, uh, by acompany that was plant based.
That was actually would put meinto some pretty deep keto, um,
that had 32 grams of plantbased, um, plant based protein

(10:44):
in like a 12 ounce ready todrink shake.
And it was, it was deliciousenough, but it was really
effective.
But so I did, I mean, I did allof my data collection, but what
came up for me is like, LoveKeto.

(11:04):
I think Keto is amazing.
I'm gonna start using, I'm gonnastart actually doing another
sort of a biohack with KetoneIQ,which is a, I think it's a beta
droxylbutyrol

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (11:19):
yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (11:20):
which is a, it's, it's like a ketone,
yeah, it's like a ketone ester,but it's more, I think it's more
effective.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (11:30):
mm hmm,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (11:30):
So I'm going to start using that in
conjunction with a GLP 1agonist, and I want to see where
it takes my blood glucoselevels, but I also want to see
where it takes my You know, uh,ability to build more muscle as
well as like my brain function,you know, like kicking me out of
brain fog, but I mean, there'sso much, there's just a

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (11:55):
what if you take that and you don't
go keto, how, where would thattake you, do you think,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (12:01):
You mean taking a GLP one agonist or
taking, yeah, if you don't, ifyou don't do keto, I, so I did
both.
I mean, I think it's going to beeffective.
Like, I think taking GLP 1agonist and not being on keto
will still be effective becausethe main thing that it, the main
thing that these, that these GLP1 agonists do is they, they

(12:25):
trigger the, the receptor inyour brain, uh, for satiation,
right?
So you feel like you're full,but another thing that it does
too is like, since you'refeeling full.
It, it also, uh, it also slowsdown your gastric emptying, like

(12:46):
your transit rate, how fastyou're digesting food.
So it slows it down quite a bit,which, which also regulates your
body producing, uh, leptin.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (12:58):
mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (13:00):
So leptins and ghrelin are those
things, those are the hungerhormones that just make you
hungry.
So the way that it works isbasically it says, Hey, you're
full, stop eating.
And then your body reacts bysaying, Oh, let's slow down this
digestion process.
And then the chain reaction toit is like, yeah, if we're not
hungry, we don't need to, uh,you know, we don't need to, to

(13:21):
secrete, uh, leptins or ghrelin.
So you, it's a, it's a, it'ssuper interesting how it works.
And so by doing that, it drivesdown your, your blood glucose

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (13:33):
Yep.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (13:34):
And that's where I think the two,
that is where I think that boththe keto diet and the GLP 1
agonists converge.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (13:44):
Mm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (13:45):
And that convergence is what, is
what I'm after now.
Like, okay, so how do you usethose two?
Like, do you really back downyour dose of, uh, of GLP 1?
And then increase your, yourketones, you know, either, uh,
exogenously from, you know, likea ketone, uh, butyrol or, uh, or

(14:09):
a, uh, ketone ester.
I don't know.
That's my next hack.
And I'm going to do a ton ofdata collection because I wear a
continual glucose monitor.
know, so I'm able to, like,follow that,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (14:23):
Maybe that's going to be the next
book, right, Tom?
If it works.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (14:28):
I don't know, I mean, I, I don't
know, because, you know, thething is, like, I'm in the
process of stepping down, like,from my role at work, so, like,
right now I'm the CEO.
So I have, uh, I have a personwho's on my team who's currently
my CFO, who's moving into thatrole.
And so I'm going to be movingmore into the chief innovations

(14:49):
officer role, which is greatbecause that gives me more
access to the lab and but, but,you know, I'm in my sixties.
So I started thinking aboutlegacy, you know, and there's
some people that think thatgenerational wealth.
Is the greatest legacy you canleave behind.
But I don't, I don't feel thatlike I look at all of the people

(15:12):
that are the heirs tobillionaires, what do they
really do?
What do they do to impact theworld?
Like, I don't see a lot of it.
I, I mean, I see mostly.
The impact they make is flyingtheir private jets and hanging
out on the beach and not reallydoing much of anything.
And I think that, I think thegreatest legacy that somebody

(15:33):
can leave behind is knowledge,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (15:35):
hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (15:36):
you know, like when you look at,
when you look at like the mostpowerful man in the world,
right, Marcus Aurelius, youknow, like, did he pass on
generational wealth?
Nope.
But the knowledge that he passedon through stoicism and
philosophy.
That's a legacy and that is along legacy, couple thousand

(15:58):
years of legacy.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (16:00):
Mm hmm.
What's the legacy that you thinkthat you want to, uh, live?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (16:06):
I think more, I think more
knowledge based, like I'm in theprocess of writing another book,
but it's a technical book andit's the book is going to be
called the formulators guide toclean label sugar reduction and
I've got thousands of formulasthat I've created over the past
two decades.
And I'm going to include thoseand I'm going to include step by

(16:28):
step instructions for any, anyCPG company that can use these
as base formulas to cut downadded sugars and carbs in, in
all of their formulas.
I think, I mean, I don't know ifthat's going to be a legacy, but
I think it'll make an impactbecause I, I find like a lot of

(16:50):
companies that, you know, thatmanufacture ultra processed
food.
are kind of in the weeds.
They don't really understandbecause they've done it for so
long.
They don't really understandlike, Hey, how do we get the
sugar out and still make ittaste good and how do we get the
carbs out and, you know, get ourbaked goods to still, you know,
rise and, you know, have a softmiddle and crunchy outside and

(17:15):
stuff.
So, um, I don't know.
It feels like a good directionfor me right now,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (17:22):
You know, man, I salute you for, you
know, having the, you know, Thehonesty is, you know,
refreshing.
You know, you man up to, youknow, talking about your
mistakes.
Um, also man up to right thewrong, right?
Um, you weren't living the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (17:37):
man.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (17:38):
Um, And then you felt, you talked
about this on our firstinterview, uh, you felt like you
were a hypocrite, uh, with yourcompany, right?
It's a lifestyle, promotinghealthy lifestyles.
But, uh, yeah, I salute you,man, for that courage, you know?
Overcoming, you know, sugaraddiction is huge.
Like, we all have that.
And obviously, a lot of peopledon't, um, do not have that.

(18:04):
Accept that they have it, but,you know, if you have sugar
dependency, if you can't go getoff, you know, carbohydrates,
you know, high, high, high, highcarb diets, then you are a sugar
dependent, right?
And by acknowledging that, alsoyou are acknowledging earlier
about what happened in, youknow, the COVID times in 2021,

(18:28):
you know, And, um, packing like20 pounds, it's, uh, it's not an
easy thing to do.
Like, you know, coming forwardand telling about your story and
how you were able to overcomethat.
It's, uh,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (18:44):
Wow.
Thank you.
That's super nice for you tosay.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, I, I'm not aperson who beats himself up over
the mistakes.
You know, I've made, I did, I,and maybe this thing just, maybe
this all just comes with likeold age or something.
Um, but it's like, I don't know.

(19:05):
I think that when I was younger,I used to just beat the hell out
of myself for every mistake I'dmake.
Like, you're so stupid.
And it's like, and now I like, Ilike making mistakes because if
I'm not making any mistakes, itmeans that I'm not really
pushing myself.
You know, so I like makingmistakes because, you know, it

(19:27):
makes me more mindful, and, andthen I have that choice, right?
When you make a mistake, it'slike, you have the choice of
like, alright, well, am I goingto use this as an opportunity to
learn, grow, and become a betterhuman being?
You know?
And, you know, life is all aboutour choices.

(19:49):
I try to always choose the pathof learning from my mistakes,
doing better, understanding weall make

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (19:57):
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (19:58):
you know, and just every single day
trying to be a better man.
And, I don't know, it gives me,gives me a sense of
groundedness.
Mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (20:08):
And it helps you.
You know, one of my mentorsalways told me, I know this,
this was when, you know, in mydarkest time of my life, like
six, seven years ago, it was,uh, the darkest time.
And then she told me, Hey, Iknow you're going to get better
because you talk about it,right?
You're honest about it.
You're you, you want to getbetter, right?

(20:29):
But if you keep that to yourselfand you don't accept what's
going on, then how are you ableto.
Overcome that if you don't evenaccept it, right?
So, um, one of the things that Ireally learned about, uh, you
know, mistakes is, you know,talk about it, man, man up about
it, you know, have the courageto talk about it to other

(20:51):
people.
You know, sometimes people have,you know, a different
perspective that you mayresonate with and sometimes they
can help you, right?
Um, overcome that.
So, um, like I said, if you talkabout it, it's, uh, like, like
you're doing now.
You're able to create a plan onhow to overcome it, right?
You created a plan by talkingabout it, and people talk about,

(21:15):
and you discuss it with people,and people have ideas.
Like, for example, um, you know,biohacking.
Um, we, you know, your friendtalked about biohacking, and it
resonated with you.
And now, you've lost 20 pounds.
You know, and uh, Keep movingforward.
Right.
So, uh, that's a, that's a goodway to really overcome, uh, our

(21:39):
challenges is to talk about it.
Mm-Hmm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (21:42):
thanks.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
I mean, there was a lot to learnthere.
I mean, a whole lot to learn,but I, I mean, to your point,
you know, I think owning one'smistakes, um, in actually
accepting the help of otherpeople, I mean, that's
vulnerability.

(22:02):
And I think that, I think, Ithink courageous people can
embrace vulnerability because ittakes a lot of courage to be
vulnerable.
Um, I mean, I noticed this in myleadership team at work, like
sometimes they have the hardesttime being vulnerable.
You know, they've got this bigwall up, they don't want to
admit their mistakes, you know,and stuff.

(22:23):
But if you create a safe spacefor people.
Which, I mean, you clearly do onyour podcast.
Um, I think it makes it easy forpeople to be vulnerable.
And once they come out of that,you know, once they come out of
that vulnerability, they findthemselves like even more
courageous than they werebefore.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (22:43):
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (22:43):
You know, and it's like, I don't
know when I look at the worldnow, it just seems like every,
not everybody, but there's a lotof divisiveness in the world,
you know, everybody's dividedand we've got the right, the
left, the red, the blue statesand, you know, down here in the
U.
S.
And I mean, there's just, andthere's a lot of conflict going
on in other countries, a lot ofauthoritarianism.

(23:07):
You know, when I look at this,it's like there's a lot of
division in the world.
And I think that, I mean, Ithink it's You know, as a
leader, which I would mostdefinitely consider you a
leader, you know, in yourcommunity, I consider myself a
leader and in my community, Ithink the best thing that we can
do, you know, as leaders is toinspire people through, you

(23:28):
know, through our beingvulnerable and creating a safe
space for them to be vulnerableas well, because what that's
going to create is community in,you know, And when you have a
strong community, it's noteasily divided and when we get
divided and it's the us andthem, you know, that's when we,
that's when we become easily ledand, and even easily led astray

(23:50):
by people, you know, withconspiracy theories and stuff
like that.
So I think.
As community leaders, I think asleaders in our families,
whatever, I think be courageousenough to be vulnerable, you
know, and own your mistakes and,and learn from them, you know,

(24:13):
and build that trust.
I mean, that's what we need backbecause that's, that's what
builds strong communities.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (24:19):
Yeah.
When you, you know, empowerpeople with, you know,
information, I always talk aboutthis when I talk to my clients
about, um, you know, just healthin general, right?
If you're starting a newventure, First of all, you, you
got to commit and understandcommitment.
Like a lot of people may say I'mcommitted, but do you really

(24:40):
understand commitment?
What does it mean to becommitted to one thing?
Right?
I always say, Hey, if you'recommitted to one area of your
life, all you need to do is lookat that and look at that
foundation that you built.
Um, and how you got committedand then, you know, apply this
to this area of your life, maybehealth, right?
If you want to start a healthydiet, you know, what, what did

(25:00):
it took you to be committed onyour business?
Right.
For example, right.
Um, obviously you're not goingto be.
Um, you know, in and out of yourbusiness, sometimes you're in,
sometimes you're out.
No, you're committed to yourbusiness and you get up in the
morning and you have thatintention, right?
You're intentional witheverything that you're doing.
Number one is understandingcommitment.

(25:21):
Number two is educating yourselfwith the knowledge of, okay, if
you're starting a keto diet, ifyou're starting a carnivore
diet, You gotta really learnabout it, right?
Because at the end of the day,if you don't know anything,
let's say for your business, ifyou don't know anything about
your business, somebody comes toyou and asks you about your
business, you can't even explainwhat your business is, right?

(25:41):
You're at a disadvantage, right?
And number three is community.
I always talk about community,the power of proximity, right?
You are the sum of the fivepeople around you, right?
If you surround yourself withpeople with the same goals,
chances are I can almostguarantee your success, right?
If you surround yourself withthe right people, right?

(26:03):
And so that's, that's a hugething.
I mean, I'm, I'm all aboutcommunity.
I'm building my own communityright now.
People that are, you know, justaccountability people around me.
Um.
Yeah.
Yeah, and vulnerability.
I like that.
I think I'm going to apply thatto that community for sure.
Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (26:25):
you do it, the easier it becomes,
you know, I mean, we're allhuman beings.
We all make mistakes.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024 (26:32):
absolutely,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (26:33):
know, and we're just all walking each
other home.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (26:37):
we, we, uh, we keep each other
accountable, right?
You gotta have that around you.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (26:42):
Oh, a hundred percent.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (26:44):
that around you.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (26:44):
Yeah.
I mean, I started, I starteddemand that out of my leadership
team.
So it's like, Hey, look, I'm nota dictator and I don't have all
of you people here tocontinually agree with me

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (26:58):
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (26:59):
I mean, if you have, you have two
people in a relationship andthey constantly agree, One of
them is not really necessary.
So, you know, I, I encouragethem, I 100 percent encourage
them to engage me, to oppose me,to, you know, if they see me
going in the wrong direction,making poor decisions, you know,

(27:21):
for them to call me out on it,because honestly, it's like
compliments when people are likecomplimenting you.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154 (27:30):
Mm-Hmm?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (27:30):
It, it.
It, I mean, it, it strokes yourego, but you don't need that.
Like your ego never serves you.
It never serves you.
What you need is what you needis the criticism and the honest
truth in the things that you'redoing so you can actually be
better.

(27:51):
Like, in my formulations, likeif I, if I create a formula and
we've got a panel and everybodyon the panel is like, this
tastes amazing, this is reallygood, it's not what I'm looking
for.
Tell me what I can do better.
Tell me where the off notes are.
Tell me, you know, tell meeverything that I can do better
about this, this formula inorder for it to, to be perfect,

(28:17):
you know?
And then even after something'salready at the mark.
A market level and scaling.
I still constantly pull stuffback into the lab.
Let's do a sensory panel Let'ssee what we can do better with
this.
So I like that.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (28:34):
want to talk to you about that, you
know, the role of your, um,company in the food industry,
right?
We talked about, you know, um,your, the food industry is
promoting unhealthy eatinghabits, you know, with, uh, the
widespread availability ofcheap, you know, processed
ingredients like sugar.

(28:54):
you know, contributed to therise of obesity and diabetes,
right?
Um, what are, do you think thesteps consumers can take to make
sure they are informed withtheir choices about the foods
they purchase and consume?
Because the policies have, haveto change.
I know.

(29:14):
And we get that.
And, and that falls on theshoulders of lawmakers, but we
know if we wait for that, wemight wait.
You know, 10, 20 years for thatchange to take into effect.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (29:26):
yep,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (29:27):
need to take action now.
Someone who has the power andauthority like yourself and
influence to other people.
What do you think people can donow?
Right.
To make that informed choice.
Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1 (29:48):
that's going to protect people from
ultra processed food, thosethings are in motion, right?
So, like Bernie Sanders isreally pushing ahead the Truth
in Labeling Act, which isrequiring companies that produce
food with high amounts of sugarand sodium to actually put it on
the front of the pack.

(30:09):
You know, like a warning label,like warning.
This contains 20 grams of addedsugar.
I think that that's a big, Ithink that's, that's sort of the
overarching.
Um, I would say remedy for it.
But as a consumer, I think thebest thing that a consumer can
do is read the ingredientdeclaration or the ingredient

(30:32):
list and read the nutritionalfacts

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (30:36):
Um,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (30:38):
facts panel is going to tell you the
things that that you want to beaware of.
And the first place I'd go, thefirst place I'd go is added
sugars.
You know, like, how many gramsof added sugars does this
product have?
The second place I would go iscarbohydrates.
Like, what are the carbs?

(30:59):
The last place I usually go isfiber.
Because if you have somethingthat has, let's say, ten carbs
in it, but has seven grams offiber, that's gonna leave you
with three net carbs.
And it's probably not going toimpact, it's probably not going
to impact your, your, uh, bloodglucose levels as much, you

(31:21):
know, cause the fibers offsetthat those, those are main
things I would look for.
I would also in, in theingredient deck, I'd look for
hidden sugars.
So there's a lot of differentthings like concentrated fruit
juice, uh, like nectars,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1 (31:38):
different names for sugar.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (31:41):
There's a bunch of different names for
it.
I would start familiarizingyourself with them, but you'll
always know how much added sugaris if you just go to the
nutritional facts panel.
I would say coupling all of thatwith understanding what a
portion size is.
Right.
I mean in the U.
S., in the U.
S., I mean it's amazing becauseyou go to a restaurant and I

(32:03):
mean it's great because I thinkwe celebrate our abundance.
But it's a double edged sword,right?
Overabundance is never really agood thing.
And understanding what a portionsize is, is pretty easy.
If it fits in the palm of yourhand, that's a portion.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (32:19):
Um,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024 (32:22):
Anything more than that?
is over a portion.
Watch your portion sizes, makesure that the food that you're
consuming is, you know, I wouldsay nutrient dense, high in
proteins, high in fat, low in,in carbohydrates, high in fiber.

(32:42):
Like if you can, I mean, if youcan just stick with that and
understand the portion sizes, Ithink that that is, that goes a
really, really long way to, uh,to taking some rudimentary
steps, but some critical stepsin your success.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (32:59):
yeah.
And you know, I get a lot ofquestions about, Hey, is this
okay?
Um, is this food okay for me?
And I would look at the back andsay, Hey, there's sucralose in
it.
Basically it's a diet Coke that,that can, you know, uh, bring up
some nasty cravings.
So, I mean, I don't think,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (33:20):
It can.
Artificial sweeteners.
I mean, and this is a hugedebate because I've gotten into
debates with, you know, with,with doctors before on, on
artificial sweeteners.
And so here's the thing, monkfruit, uh, stevia.
Both of those are glycosides.

(33:41):
Glycosides exist in your body.
So you have endogenousglycosides.
So your body knows what aglycoside is and how to
efficiently and effectivelyprocess it.
When you're talking aboutproducts like sucralose, which
is a, which is a chlorinatedsugar molecule, or aspartame,
which is a modifiedphenylalanine molecule, and when

(34:03):
you look at those major, youknow, chemical sweeteners, those
are glycosides.
Those compounds don't exist inyour body, right?
So, your brain thinks it'ssugar.
And it will release insulin, cancause an insulin spike, which
the real game is to keep your,your blood glucose levels, you

(34:27):
know, flat.
Um, so that's gonna, that couldlead to metabolic disease.
The only positive benefit to itwas B calorie abatement, meaning
you're taking in less calories.
Um, but I just, I don't see thatwith.
Monk fruit and stevia andallulose or erythritol, you

(34:49):
know, because those thingsalready exist in nature and they
exist in our body But anythingthat's like manufactured that
our body doesn't know what itis.
It's gonna take a guess at itand I would like sucralose.
I mean a chlorinated sugarmolecule I've worked with
sucralose before and when youopen a box of sucralose It

(35:10):
smells very much like chlorine,like super strong.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (35:15):
wow,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (35:16):
know if the amount that you put in,
like usually, usually you're notgoing to put more than like one
percent in a, in a beverageformulation.
Um, I'm not sure that thatamount will really disrupt your
microbiome.
But from my perspective, whytake the risk?
I mean, when you've got thingslike stevia and monk fruit out
there that are, you know, flavorwise, pretty close, you know, if

(35:39):
you, if you use them inmoderation, um, you know, but
they aren't, it's not achlorinated sugar molecule.
It could potentially disruptyour microbiome and it, and it's
not going to, you know, spikeyour, your, uh, your blood
sugar.
So

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (35:56):
that's interesting,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (35:57):
would look for things

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (35:58):
that's interesting.
When you said that, uh, yourbrain might think it's sugar,
then it prepares itself torelease insulin.
Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (36:09):
Yes, it does.
It does.
And I have done that.
I have, you know, it's an N ofone because it's me just using
my continual glucose monitor andI mean, it's rather anecdotal,
but I've shared this informationwith a lot of folks, you know,
that are in this sort ofmetabolic health category and

(36:29):
they're like, oh, yeah,absolutely, you know, Aspartame,
sucralose, um, will spike yourblood sugar.
I mean, it's not a huge, hugespike, but you will definitely
notice it on your, uh, yourcongenital glucose monitor.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (36:45):
And yeah, And it could still like,
If you have that, If you have,If you're sugar addicted, And
you give yourself somethingsweet like that, That's, that's
spiking your sugar,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (36:57):
mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (36:58):
That sugar, If you have a spike, It's
gonna crash coming down on you,Right?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (37:04):
Yeah, and it's going to trigger, and
if you start having a crash,it's going to trigger leptin and
ghrelin, which makes you hungry.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (37:12):
See?
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (37:13):
So when you're like, Hey, I just
drank a diet Coke and 30 minuteslater, it's like, Oh, I'm
starving.
I got to get something to eat.
Yeah.
It's that insulin.
That's the, the rollercoaster.
And it's like, no, I'm hungry.
I don't understand why.
I mean, hunger, hunger is justsimply triggered by hormone

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (37:31):
Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (37:32):
ghrelin and leptin.
So

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (37:35):
Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (37:36):
fun, huh?

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (37:38):
Yeah, and that's what we don't
understand as a society is, youknow, people are so confused
with hey What can I eat?
Like I mean people say hey, thisis bad A lot of people say, you
know have different opinionsabout food, right?
We got vegans on this side Wegot keto on this side.
We got carnivores on that sideAnd then people are just

(38:00):
confused nowadays.
What do you think about those,uh, types of, you know,
conversations to be had?
Is that something that, uh, uh,comes up on conversation on, uh,
on dinner

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (38:12):
Oh continually.
Yeah continually because I meanI Would say that probably a
third of all the applications Iwork at work on are plant

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (38:23):
Hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (38:24):
And I would say in some situations,
I'm all on board with plantbased.
Like, I do have a plant based 32gram of protein, uh, ready to
drink beverage that I consume.
It's by a company called Own, OW U Y N, only what you, what you
need.
A brilliant formulation.

(38:46):
But is it going to be, is itgoing to be the protein that my
body needs on an ongoing basisbecause the amino acids are not
going to be in alignment withthe amino acids that our bodies
need from actual animal protein?
Um, I think if you're gettingprotein, that's great.

(39:07):
I think you really need to takea look at the levels of amino
acids that you're getting, andalso vitamin B12.
Like our, our, our bodies needto get vitamin B12 from outside
sources.
And the greatest place that wecan go to for both amino acids
and, uh, and B12 is going to beanimal type proteins.

(39:31):
And that can either be dairy,um, or actual, you know, meat,
poultry, fish,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1 (39:38):
proteins.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (39:40):
it's a complete protein.
But on the other side, on theother hand, when I think about,
um, Keto carnivore or people ona carnivore diet, I've done the
current carnivore diet.
It's not what you think.
It's like, most people wouldthink that, you know, your
bowels would be blocked up andyou'd just be like, Oh,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (40:01):
no carnivore ever.
Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (40:04):
Yeah.
And I didn't find that to be thecase.
I would say the first, the firstprobably six days into it, um, I
was having a hard time, like Ihad a lot of diarrhea from it
and it didn't, and I never feltcompletely full.
Um, It's an interesting thing.

(40:25):
And it's a lot of protein.
I'm not sure that that's like,I'm not sure that that's how our
bodies are physically designed.
I mean, when you look at howour, you know, like our, our
dental structure, I mean, ourdental structure indicates that
we should be omnivores.
You know, we should be eatplants and we should eat

(40:45):
animals.
Um, it they're not like ourdental structure doesn't support
us being vegans, right?
Because our molars would be alot more adapted.
We wouldn't have canine typeteeth, you know?
I mean if you look at thephysical our physical self, it's
like, you know I would say thata combination of meat and Um, of

(41:11):
like, uh, I would say lowglycemic carbohydrates, like
cruciferous vegetables, youknow, lots of fresh vegetables,
um, even root vegetables.
I would say that, you know,moderation in all things.
I wouldn't be on a straightsweet potato diet, but you know
what, if you have like maybeHave five to ten percent of your

(41:33):
meal comprised of of like sweetpotato and some broccoli and
then a ribeye I mean that orfillet or chicken any of that.
I just just use good sense Iwould say don't shop the inside
of the store That's where thepoison is get on the outside
where the produce and you knowin the meat

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (41:57):
I'm, you know, in all, you know,
transparency, I, I've been on aketo diet for about four years
and I switched to the carnivorediet, um, just because I wanted
to, you know, because as weknow, some plants have their
defense mechanism where theyhave these oxalates, right, um,

(42:18):
oxalates that may be.
cause, uh, inflammation or, uh,gut issues just because it, it,
uh, it, you know, if you Googleoxalates, you will know it's
like tiny needles, right?
That irritates the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (42:32):
Yeah, you don't

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (42:33):
you don't want that.
So, so some of these peoplehave, you know, leaky gut and
when you have leaky gut,inflammation manifests, um, in
different ways because when,when, when your gut is leaking,
right?
It, it goes through yourbloodstream and it, you know.
it causes inflammation.
Um, some people have autoimmunecondition.
Some people have, you know, whenyou have gut issues, you know,

(42:55):
that gut brain axis, sometimesit affects your, uh, mental
health, right?
People develop

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (43:02):
Oh, absolutely.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (43:03):
so.
So I understand why people gocarnivore, but then in the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (43:09):
Mm hmm.
Mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154 (43:09):
breath, people who go carnivore after 30
days, they get, Healed for after30 days and then you can add
things back on slowly and maybemaybe some people end up Some
people stay on carnivore andsome people go animal base where
they incorporate more fruits,right?
um, you know depending on ifObviously you have to absorb

(43:31):
yourself after seven days.
Let's say you added dairy backto your life to your diet.
You observe it for seven days.
If it doesn't, if you cantolerate it, because some people
can't, right?
It causes some bloating, um,inflammation, but if you can't
tolerate there, you can add thatback on.
So that's what I really teach isokay.
If you're, I'm not saying, Hey,you can't have fruits, you can't

(43:53):
have vegetables, but you know,you can add it back on your diet
slowly.
And, and the point of thecarnivore diet is that it's the
ultimate elimination diet where.
Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (44:07):
it all

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (44:08):
think that, hey, okay, when you add
this item, food item, you addblueberries or, or whatnot, you,
you really observe what, what'sit's doing to your body because
everything that manifests inyour body is from your gut,
right?
And so, that, that's what it is.
So, people who go straightcarnivore, level 1 and water,

(44:32):
you stay there for 30 days, andas you heal, after 30 days, you
add things back on slowly.
You add things back on slowly.
So now you

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (44:40):
We are completely aligned.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (44:43):
can now pinpoint what's gonna cause
inflammation, if you add thingsone by one.
So when we go to our, you know,doctor and say, Hey, I have
this, I have inflammation.
I have food, food sensitivities.
And And they don't know whatthey'll just give you a
diagnosis of IBS.

(45:04):
Basically they don't know what'scausing inflammation in your
body.
So you got to go in ultimateelimination diet to really
pinpoint what's causing cause weare all different, right?
We're, I can be okay with dairyand you can be sensitive to
dairy or broccoli or whatnot,right?
Cause, we are all different, butyeah, just to say, Hey, that,

(45:26):
that's, uh, that's, uh, The, thecarnivore diet is not meant for
you to stay there, uh, longterm, right?
If you're, if you're somebodywho wants to heal, you know, um,
some, some people may stay onthe carnivore diet, but some
people venture out to animalbased, to keto, uh, depending
on, you know, um, how, uh, howyou react to these foods, um,

(45:51):
basically.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (45:52):
Yeah, I were completely aligned on
that.
I think probably The mosteffective modality or diet that
you can, that you can do if youare suffering from some unknown
thing, like you're trying tofind out, like if you have a
bacterial overgrowth, if you, Imean, are suffering from a yeast

(46:13):
infection, Candida, likeanything like that.
The absolute 100 percent bestmethod is going carnivore for 30
days, because it cleans theslate.
It cleans the slate.
At that point, yeah, I mean, youcan start adding, adding things
in.

(46:33):
But I, yeah, I fully, I thinkthat that is the absolute best
way for somebody to hit thereset button.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (46:42):
Here's what people don't understand
about the carnivore is theythink that, hey, you're, why do
you deprive yourself of, youknow, these foods, right?
You have this and that.
Some people don't know thatpeople can be sensitive to other
things, right?
And, and the only way that youreally figure it, figure that
out is not to.

(47:02):
You know, not a diagnosis ofIBS, no, cause, you have to
eliminate everything so you knowwhat's, so you can pinpoint what
causes it, right?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (47:14):
a hundred

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (47:15):
uh, people say, Hey, uh, I can't,
you know, don't depriveyourself.
No, people are not deprivingthemselves.
It's, there's a process to this,right,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (47:24):
For sure, but I think as human
beings, we all need to probablyincrease our capacity to suffer.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (47:31):
yeah, yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (47:33):
you have to, you know, I mean, this
is sort of cliche, but no pain,no gain.
Yeah, I mean, if you're not, ifyou aren't just suffering just a
little bit, you know, it's like,you're not, there's no lesson in
it, there's no efficacy in it,and, you know, like, I, I'm a
huge believer in doing a neti

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (47:54):
Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (47:57):
pot, trust me, I mean, I run into
people like, no, I tried itonce, I can't do it.
But I mean, I just talked to adoctor last week and she's like,
if I, you know, if my patientswould just use a neti pot twice
a day, I would have, I wouldhave 75 percent less patients,
but most people are like, Idon't want to put warm salt

(48:19):
water in my nose and I'm notgoing to do it.
Well, you're going to suffer nomatter what, right?
So either you're going to sufferwhile you're doing a neti pot,
or you're going to suffer, uh,doing, doing, uh, carnivore,
which I didn't suffer cause I

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (48:36):
I love it.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (48:38):
but it will love it.
But the thing is like, yeah, Imean, These are the things that
are necessary so you don'tsuffer more later, you know, and
I think maybe people just likehaving really mild suffering,
like, oh, I have IBS, which Idon't think

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (48:56):
don't, I don't think people are
suffering.
If, if you're, if you're on thecarnivore diet or keto diet, you
know, my dad, my, my proudestmoment was I got him off his
type two medication.
Like I've, I've helped,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (49:09):
well

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (49:10):
helped a lot of people.
Um, but the, my most proudest,uh, moment was when I helped my
dad get off type two meds andcholesterol medication.
Yeah.
I've worked on it for years, mybrother.
I worked on it for years, and Ifinally got him off these meds.
And his doctor actuallyrecommended to get off these

(49:31):
meds, not me.
So I'm like, they saw hisnumbers and it's okay.
He didn't have to be on thesemeds.
And so, that was my proudestmoment.
And I feel like it's freedom forpeople, right?
When you go on keto, when you goon carnivore.
I don't think, you know,restrict, I don't think it's
restriction for these people.
Most, um, especially for thosewho have, you know, chronic

(49:55):
illnesses or chronic disease.
Thanks.
For people who have lost tons ofweight, people who have bipolar
or schizophrenia, I've talkedto, I've talked to a lot of
people about, uh, you know,reversing their symptoms of
depression, major depression,and it's freedom for these
people, right?
But for people who doesn't needit, I mean, it could seem like a

(50:18):
daunting task, for sure.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (50:22):
I, I didn't, I never found it,
found it daunting.
I, I just haven't.
And I also think that the painof carrying extra weight, the
pain of struggling with mentalhealth issues, the pain of
being, of being dependent on,uh, diabetes medication.
I mean, I think that those, thatthose, Chronic pains are much

(50:49):
better than maybe the slightinconvenience and slight
discomfort of modifying your

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (50:56):
yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
When you, you know, when, when Iused to walk down the aisles of
the grocery store, I used tosay, Hey, I can't have that.
But then when I educated myselfon why I can't have those
things, I, I, I switched thatmindset from, I can't have that
to, I don't want that.
Cause I know what, cause I knowwhat it does to my body.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (51:18):
Yep.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (51:18):
Not to say I'm not going to have it
anymore, ever, right?
Absolutely, because, you know, Ican have it anytime I want to,
right?
I can have it on occasion.
But, uh, on my journey, right?
Right now, I choose not to haveit.
Because I'm in

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1 (51:37):
sounds like a wise

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (51:38):
I'm in control.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (51:39):
You are in control.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (51:41):
Ha ha

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (51:42):
Yeah, I think that, I think that
control issue is superinteresting that you bring it
up.
It's like you can either be incontrol of the things you eat or
allow the things you eat to bein control of you.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15403 (51:51):
Yeah.
And it's, uh, it's, it's not,it's

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1 (51:54):
that's

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (51:54):
it's not easy.
Nobody's saying it's easy.
It's, it's a simple change.
Right.
Right.
Um, but, but, uh, it's,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (52:01):
Yeah, it is

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (52:02):
but it's not an easy change because
it, a lot, a lot, uh, I reallycommend people who changed your
lifestyle cause it's not easy.
Yeah.
It's not easy.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (52:14):
No, it isn't easy.
I mean, it's simple, not easy,you know, and it takes an
effort, but it's worth, it'sworth every bit the effort.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (52:23):
You know what I ask you?
Um, What challenges you rightnow, Tom?
What motivates you to keep goingright now?
Maybe we can end there

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_1340 (52:35):
You know, that's a really, that's a
great question.
I would say, uh, wonder andcuriosity.
Like, those are the things thatdrive me the most.
Like, when I see, like, I read alot of science papers.
I mean, my mind is sort of ascience based mind, and it is
just wonder and curiosity.
Like every day getting up andjust wondering, you know, like,

(52:58):
how is this all happening?
Like I emailed this PhD lastweek.
It might actually been thebeginning of this week And he's
a physicist and he's he lives upin Oregon and Nathan Siegel.
So I I Emailed him because Ijust had this really profound

(53:18):
question, right, that was eatingat me and it's been eating at me
for the past six months.
Right?
And it's sort of like aroundtime, you know, because the
thing is, like, I was walkingdown the street and I was like,
this is super interesting.
Does the part of the street thatI'm going to be walking on in

(53:39):
the next 30 seconds actuallyexist in the future?
Like somewhere in the future, isthat there?
And I'm just coming to meet it.
And then what happens to thestreet, the part of the street
that I just passed that's 30seconds behind me?
Where did it go?
You know?
And is it the observer?

(54:00):
And is, is everything that weobserve suddenly coming into
form?
Or does all of it exist in thefuture and we just come to meet
it?
Do you have the answer to that?

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (54:13):
I wish I have the answer to that
but

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (54:16):
I wished I had the answer to

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (54:17):
I have, I have, I absolutely have
thoughts like that, especiallywhen I'm just walking by myself
to the, to the park, whatever,you know, I, I just think to
myself, you know, these things,I mean, there, there's going to
be a point in time where, whereI'm standing now, I won't, I
won't be a few years, you know,Maybe a hundred years from now,

(54:44):
there'll be a time that, uh,this place will still be here.
I won't right.
So Those things actually, youknow Creeps up to me But keeps
me keeps me

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (54:54):
it is.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (54:55):
uh motivated every single day for
sure Yeah

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (54:59):
aligned and motivated, but it also
creates this really beautifulsense of wonder, right?
um and There's there's an authorJohn O'Donohue That he was a
Catholic priest, but he really,really, uh, you know, practiced

(55:20):
a lot of like Celtic mysticismand his writing is super
beautiful.
It's like, we're here to witnessthese landscapes and, you know,
that's our main purpose.
But I think, I think thinkingthe thoughts that are and
pondering the thoughts that areoutside of our reach humbles us.

(55:42):
You know, because it makes usfeel really small when we.
You know and it teams the egolike this is my place this is
who i am this is what i do butwe're literally a speck of sand
on a speck of sand within aspeck of sand amongst trillions
of other specks of sand and it'slike when you think of us on

(56:06):
that sort of micro level

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (56:08):
out the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (56:08):
we are.
Yeah it's like what is thiswe're experiencing you

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (56:15):
And when you, when you realize that
there's no, there's no moredivision, right?
There's no more.
Yeah.
You're not, you're not thinkingof who am I, who, who these,
these people, my people, theirpeople, like there's no, there's
no there, like there's nosuperiority anymore.
Like at the end of the day,we're just, you know, we, we

(56:38):
share the same suffering.
We share the same joys.
Right.
And we just want to help eachother at the end of the day.
Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (56:46):
Yeah.
And we share the same particles.
It means that we are all

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (56:50):
You know, my wife actually asked

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (56:51):
we feel

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (56:52):
um, what, what, what do you think is
the meaning of life?
I had to ponder and like, wonderabout that.
I'm like, man.
Yeah.
My answer has to be profound,you know?
Cause it can't be that simple,right?
What?
Yeah, yeah, I had to stop andthink

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (57:15):
will, nobody will really know.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know if life actuallyhas a meaning.
I think, I think our lives havepurpose, but maybe no meaning.
And I think that, I mean, frommy perspective, I mean, purpose
is the continual, is thecontinual growth process.

(57:35):
You know, and genuinely lovingone another.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (57:41):
yes.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (57:42):
If we just did that, right?
Like, if we just all genuinelyloved each other, all of this
crap that we're going throughwould disappear.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (57:52):
And, and every, and every, and, you
know, you, you may think thatthis is not it.
This is out of the realm of theketones You will be wrong
because, because love, you know,you have to love people to, you
know, give service, right?
If you think about service,whether you're in the food
industry, whether you're tryingto help people change their

(58:13):
lifestyle.
You gotta care for people.
For me, if you think aboutpurpose for me, I just want to
help people succeed, right?
I want to lessen theirsuffering.
Because I've suffered, right?
And I want to lessen theirsuffering.
So I think that's my answer tothat.
Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (58:30):
Yeah.
You're coming from a space ofcontribution.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024 (58:34):
Absolutely.
Tom, thank you so much, man.
I love this conversation,brother.
I mean, we have to do this.
We gotta do this again.
man.
I mean, the conversation to behad is infinite, you know, when
you're here.
So thank you so much for, for,uh, sharing that.
I mean, where can people findyou?

(58:54):
Where can people, you know, Ilove Geigon Kido.
We didn't even have a chance totalk about that, but, uh, yeah.
Well, where can we get thoseproducts, man?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (59:05):
so that's kind of a sad story.
We had to, yeah, we had to shutthe business down because we
had, we got sued by a, uh, classaction lawyer for our site, not
being, uh, not being compliantwith the disabilities act.

(59:26):
meaning that our buttons weren'tbig enough and so they were,
yeah.
And the, the, the language onthe website was too complex and
they wanted 75, 000 from us, andhonestly, we give away more
product than we sell becausewe're trying to help.
Support

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (59:46):
so unfortunate, man.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13403 (59:48):
we had to shut the site down and
start getting rid of the productbecause it's like, I'm not going
to, I'm not going to pay thislawsuit because I think if you
or even engage it, because Ithink if you start doing that,
it just perpetuates it, meaningthen more people are going to be
coming after you.
So, I mean, it was kind ofunfortunate, but the, the upside

(01:00:10):
to it is that I'm going to haveall of the recipes.
Included in an upcoming book andpeople can make all of those
things

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_1540 (01:00:17):
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
Something good came out of

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (01:00:21):
Yeah, because it was, I never did the
book and the products to reallymake money.
I just did it.
I did it because I wasenthusiastic about the results
that Keto brings.
So, but if people want to findme, um, I'd go on LinkedIn.
Just look me up on LinkedIn,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:00:38):
Tom King.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (01:00:39):
I used to, I show up as CEO right
now, but I'll be showing up asthe, um, I'll be showing up as
the chief innovations officerthe next few weeks

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:00:48):
keto scientist.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_13 (01:00:51):
Yeah, just, I'm easy to find.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:00:52):
All right.
Well,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (01:00:54):
working at

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:00:54):
Tom, thank you so much for coming on
and sharing your story here withus, man.
You can come back anytime youwant, brother.
I can have these

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_ (01:01:01):
Lorenz, just any time.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039 (01:01:03):
All right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038 (01:01:03):
I love our conversations.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_15 (01:01:05):
brother.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134 (01:01:07):
Have a great day.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 170: Thom King CEO of Steviva Foods ON Keto, Biohacks, and The Food Industry